Sir Alex Ferguson has been handed a four match touchline ban as well as a £20,000 for questioning the fitness of referee Alan Wiley.
After spending an unusually long time to book Anton Ferdinand in the second half, Ferguson claimed this was because Wiley needed a chance to get his breath back. He also criticised how far behind play he was when the second goal was scored, comparing his lack of fitness to the referees there are in Europe.
Several newspaper then provided stats to “prove” that Wiley was fit enough in that match against Sunderland. Apparently only 10 of the 22 players on the pitch covered more distance than Wiley. Is that a good thing? Wiley is supposed to be tracking the action from box to box. Goalkeepers cover next to no ground, central defenders rarely pass the half way line, just like full-backs of our opponents at Old Trafford, strikers spend most of their time in their opponents half and waiting for the ball. There were also 6 substitutions made that day, with 4 of them missing out on the last 15 minutes or more of the match, so surely it’s expected for the referee to be one of, if not the most active person on the park? 11th? That’s shockingly poor, surely?!
Regardless, the FA have thrown the book at our manager and to be honest, we can’t be too surprised given the frequency of his criticisms of referees.
They have been clever though, making two of the touchline bans part of a suspended sentence, meaning he will have to keep his gob shut for the rest of the season. So the next time we’re away to our title rivals and the referee costs us the match, he will have to keep quiet. Can’t imagine it? Me neither. Apparently though, following the hysterical calls for Fergie to be given a stadium ban, the manager is happy enough with the punishment the FA have dished out.
Although it’s interesting to note that the FA have never given a touchline ban to a manager for post-match comments before, so they have jumped straight in at the deep end with United. Are we surprised? Well we shouldn’t be!
Reminder of FA’s dealings with United
- Manchester City’s Christian Negouai was fined £2k and received no ban for missing a drugs test around the same time the FA fined Rio Ferdinand £50k and an eight month ban.
- Manchester City’s Robbie Fowler scored a late goal against United and celebrated in front of our travelling fans, holding up his five digits to represent Liverpool’s success in Europe and received no punishment. A week later, Gary Neville celebrated in front of Liverpool’s travelling fans following a late goal and was fined £5k.
- Liverpool’s Steven Gerrard and Neil Mellor were sent off in the pre-season friendly Amsterdam tournament and received no punishment. Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes were sent off in the same tournament a couple of years later and were banned for three league matches.
- Craig Bellamy hits a restrained fan in front of the world’s cameras and receives a warning. Patrice Evra allegedly punched a Chelsea groundsman, although there was compelling evidence to the contrary (the CCTV footage which recorded the incident showed no punch) and receives a four match ban.
No other club’s fans can compare like to like examples where their club has repeatedly been dealt with more harshly than any other club.
And the FA set the precedent with Manchester United… again.
Actually Fergie says is true.
What exactly does a touchline ban constitute? I know Fergie rarely stands at the edge of the “technical area” and barks orders all through the game, but is he still allowed to talk to the players before the game, at halftime and after the game? Or does it mean no contact with players & trainers at all on gameday?
@ ZD Casuals
He can’t approach the touchline
Players can approach him but there is a risk we will play with lesser players and referee wouldn’t allow them to come bakc on the pitch.
I don’t know what to make of this. Everything is said and it is worrying.
Tufty
you got it wrong..even if agreed with the first part of what u said, the second part of your argument falls dead. The ref doesn’t run from one goal line to other. His UP-DOWN range is between the edges of both the D’s. He needn’t venture too far inside the box owing to his visual range. Ditto for the SIDELINES, more so coz the linesmen are there…
So basically the ref’s boundaries are a smaller concentric rectangle of the actual field. If you dont get what I mean,
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| | This is where the | |
| | ref would do most | |
| | if not all of his | |
| | running, surely | |
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Thats not the case with
1.Midfielders 4X2 = 8
2.Wing backs 2X2 = 4
Thats 12 players there already.
Left are 2 goalies, 4 central defenders and 4 strikers who run relatively less as you would assume.
Yet ref is 11th is a valid thing??
er..no text formatting in comments…
ignore my attempt to explain it to u visually but get this..
the ref does most of his running inside a smaller rectangle than the actual field, due to his range of vision, whereas players use the whole of the pitch with the ball. That itself is the fundamental point why he has to run more to get a good sight of everything. Even if he fails to do that, 11th is horrible!
@Tufty…I generally dont respond to nonsense that you dish out, but do you understand that you are making a fool of yourself time and again. Why dont you go back to where you came out in this world(although you should have been aborted) and do some introspection into why are you so mentally deformed.
Whats it with footballers this week, first the sad incident of the German goalie, really sad and now Cudcini has had an accident.
I hope our team stays out of trouble.
WE HAVE TO WIN THE LEAGUE…fa and the media in general needs to be shown that honest resolve is far stronger than dirty politics to pull us down.
The referring in general is just pathetic in the league. The EPL is the most dynamic, entertaining and watchable league in the world, but the standard of referring the worst that can be.
To be honest in every match I see some really poor decisions.
Alan Wiley I am sure knows that he is not fit to referee at this level. I hope for his own sake he moves out next year.
Sir Alex will know how he needs to get around this two match shit touchline ban and I hope the team now responds and turns up the heat the way it can best do. Winning Matches and Winning the Trophy.
GLORY GLORY MAN UNITED.
Wazza – Top illustration mate!!
brett1985 – Fucking bang on pal. Superb. Go on man, do a detailed rant of all dodgy decisons.
Any chance of getting the United > Ingerlund banner on the Stretford for Everton?
Tufty – of the 22 players, 16 players were on the field for 90 minutes, like Wiley. 2 goalies, so we’re down to 14 players. 4 centre backs so we’re down to 10 players. And Wiley was behind all of them in distance covered.
Care you retract your claim that Riley did well? lol.
**** I’m still not sure how all the “greater distance covered” equates to an adequately fit Wiley. Think bout it – the people you see jogging past your house a few times a week can probably pull off a half marathon in the same amount of time a football match takes. That will make them fitter than most of us, but that doesn’t make them world class athletes.
I routinely watch matches while running on the treadmill and can easily pull off distances greater than footballers in the same amount of time ( I don’t always put in 90 mins – usually 45 is enough for me) That don’t make me EPL match fit. It just means that while players walk, stop, wait, take throw ins, spit on the ground, sprint, turn and sprint again, stand with arms in air, help Drogba up off the turf, …. I’m waddling through at a regular pace.
Meanwhile. most of their distances covered are at a much higher pace, with a ball at feet, or demanding an extraordinary piece of skill at the end.
The fact that an EPL ref can waddle through a match, breathing out his backside and wander a greater distance than a footballer sprints in a match really doesn’t do much to challenge Fergie’s point. Jeff Winter, one of the biggest twats ever to put on a black shirt was EPL certified and at my worst I never carried a gut the size of his. Or Alan Wiley’s, for that matter.
SB
It is a necessary evil. Someone needs to play Devil’s Advocate, and the FA needs to show they are willing to come down hard on the champions, even the playing field a little, by any means necessary in their opinion.
And I wouldn’t complain as long as in May, we create history again. We will win the quadruple. Believe.
2 keepers aside and 4 centre backs aside, its expected that a referee would be just above them in the distance covered stats. (Thats 6 players in total), does the figure actually include all used subs?
Given that Wiley was above ten players, thats a decent stat for a referee, given that the referee, as illustrated by another poster, does not need to go touchline to touchline, byeline to byeline.
I would imagine that his stats for that game are probably a lot higher than other refs.
Infact, I would argue that more players should actually be above the ref.
On reflection the punishment given to Fergie is quite lenient given the calls for harsher sanctions by former refs and the media.
For every case we can argue that Utd have been harshly treated (And yes we have been dealt harshly in a lot of cases, but a lot if thats due to the size of the coverage associated with such cases), we can probably find more than enough cases were we have been dealt with more favourably and have benefited from decisions/punishments.
While I do mind with the penalties but I think the problem is that who’s going to watch over these refs? Most of the times they got away with bad decisions which could cost us an effin trophy.
I just think this is bollock, and what’s up with the ref union being angry because they think the punishment is not severe. This is just nonsense.
Let it be known that know matter what the FA or the refs do, United will win this title.
How the fuck can anybody be on wileys side??? He is fat. And fergie has every right to question his fitness. The ref should be an athlete as the athletes he works with. The managers and the players should have the right to demand the best of the best. Not only in decisionmaking but in fitness too. It should be in the fa’s interest to listen to criticism. To learn from it, and get better refs that don’t ruin the game. Instead they bully everybody into submission. Well that doesn’t work on us!!! Fuck the fa! United is bigger than the fa! united is bigger than life!!! And the 20 000 k fine is just fucked up. In what other situation would something like this happen? 20 000 for saying a fact in a free country? Fa is again showing their gestapo manners..
We WILL win the league in may!
And the FA’s spectacular incompetence shines through again…
Does the distance covered measure the speed at which these distances were covered? Was Wiley using his aerobic energy system throughout the match? Did he at any point have to use his anaerobic energy system as all but the goalkeepers would have had to use. As Bishopville Red rightly says, fitness is not measured in distance covered, it’s measured by VO2 max, the bodies ability to take on board and use oxygen. I guarantee you that EVERY footballer on that pitch is fitter than Wiley!! The reason some footballers didn’t cover as much distance is PURELY down to the dynamics and tactics of football and not the fitness of players….You fucking dick Tufty!
Tufty
What actually is your purpose of existing. Fucking boring miserable prick.
Re: Nani
Seems Tufty was right about one thing:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1227365/Nani-faces-Manchester-United-axe-fall-Old-Trafford-boss-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html
4 match ban? doesnt really matter, fergies can work off the pitch without it effecting us, within the 90 minutes mike and Rene can do the rest, most of the time its them on the touchline anyway.. Surely our performances cant get any worse anyway?
Tufty – you expect the Sunderland full-backs to do more running at Old Trafford than the referee? You think Phil Bardsley was legging it up and down the touchline? lol. Bollocks. They had something like 35% possession of the ball so how much of that was in our half of the pitch? Doesn’t add up I’m afraid.
I wouldnt use the FA to wipe my arsee!!!!!
They’re a jokeeee!!!!!! Benetez gets a warning for the glasses incident….. Just because he didnt have the balls to say it out loud, he gets off…..
SAF is class enough to speak his mind without it being a personal attack and he gets banned……… but as the saying goes….
Our history makes us strong. Your hate makes us strongerr!!!!
Manchester United will never die!!!!
I see that cunt Alan Leighton and Graham “3 card” Poll were lording it on the News at Ten tonight, bitching about Fergie.
Meanwhile just look at the sort of comments from abu’s on this mail thread. It must be awful being that bitter and jealous:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1227239/Manchester-United-boss-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-hit-match-ban-grossly-improper-criticism-Alan-Wiley.html
Why so surprised guys? What else were we expecting??
This was always going to happen, wasn’t it.
The entire ABU media jumping on the bandwagon, with all the history already against us as Scott and the others have already pointed out. The FA were always going to screw with us again. In fact I’m surprised its just two games + two suspended. I was worried it was gonna be more!
have a look at this
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=697938&sec=england&cc=4716
This son of a b**ch Alan Leighton is running his mouth again.
Absolute cunt, this man, a fucking disgrace.
What’s he got in his closet against Sir Alex anyway.
I wish Sir Alex would sue him back for all the stupid comments he has been making all this while.
Sheesh…our manager has already been docked for just honestly expressing his opinion (correct by the way!)
When he doesn’t talk to the press, they go after him….when he talks to them..he is slaughtered anyways.
He just cant win with these guys.
I just hope the siege mentality thing gets going and inspires our players!
Can this be true??
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/nov/12/referees-closed-ranks-manchester-united
Well its about time some sane voice saw things in perspective….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6555854/Henry-Winter-what-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-has-done-for-English-football-deserves-respect.html?
…exactly what i’d been thinking
Scott, do you have the opta stats for each player?
The full backs probably do more running than the majority of other positions, especially given the modern role of the attacking full back.
from personal experience, i can say that playing at full back covers more ground than playing on a wing.
One of the resons that Wileys stats were leaked, was due to the high performance/fitness they were deemed to be.
I doubt one person left Old Trafford after the Sunderland game and thougt the ref looked unfit or actually had a bad game.
I doubt many people actually questioned the injury time played, given the stoppage time we already had and the late goals.
It was only after the game, whn Fergie shifted the blame from the teams performance to the referees performance di it become an issue and with it being on an internationalbreak, the media had almost 2 weeks to play along with it.
I for once am very happy with the decision for i think there must have been atleast half the people wanting Sir Alex to be hanged.
What Scott says is spot on.You have to feel that our success makes people even more jealous.i admit that Fergie should not have said what he did, but how can people say that he questioned intregity of the refree.he did not say that the refree acceps bribe from managers and makes decisions against us.All he did was voiced his opinion which is spot on because the number of refrees has gone down from 24 to 12 which means that these same refrees take charge of the midweek league cup games.Wiley definitely has to tone up and lose a dozen kgs atleast.
Also people saying that Fergie was let off Absolute Rubbish.What did the FA do when Benitez offerd the ref his glasses for not giving liverfool a peno in their opening day defeat at Spurs? what action was taken when Harry Redknapp called the ref a Mickey mouse? Why is no action taken against Wenger when he always blames the refrees for Arsenal’s loss.
Also people say United get decisions their way at OT.who are they kidding.its obvious that even dippers and chelsea get decisions their way when they are at home.
1.Ngog’s dive on Monday
2.Gerrards dive last year against Atletico Madrid at Anfield
3.A number of decisions that went against us at Anfield
4.A number of decisions that went against us at Stamford bridge.
Yet all that people focus on is ,why were 6 minutes of time added on in the derby?
If football is a game of opinions why punish managers when they voice opinions.Isnt it obvious that refrees are dominating more headlines because of their wrong decisions which can have massive impact on the clubs.If people defend saying that they are human,it is upto the Fa to take up the use of extra officials and video replays with refs.because until that is not done refrees will continue to dominate the headlines and make loads of mistakes
Tufty – you don’t need statistics of every single player to know that the Sunderland fullbacks weren’t running around like blue arsed flies. Reid ran around like a blue-arsed fly but did you see Bardsley running up and and down the wings? I didn’t.
Fullbacks do play a more attacking role this days, certainly, but rarely at Old Trafford!
Still, only 16 players were on the pitch for as long as Riley and he only did more running than 5 of them. I think that’s an embarrassing stat when you consider 6 players make up the goalies and centre-backs.
I don’t know where you sit in the ground, but the people around me were whinging about Riley taking so long to book Ferdinand. “How long does it fucking take to show a yellow card, referee?!” and the like.
It’s funny actually because I spoke to a City mate of mine last week. He said he was watching City a few weeks ago and kept moaning about how far behind the ball the referee was. He then read a match report and laughed when he saw Wiley was the referee. I think it was the Villa game. He wouldn’t support Fergie in an argument if his life depended on it but even he had to agree with Fergie’s assessment of Wiley.
We all know the reason why Ferguson laid in to the referee. If we had won, he wouldn’t have mentioned Riley taking a long time to book players or being a long way behind play. That doesn’t change the fact Fergie was right in what he said, even though he was wrong to say it.
The Sunderland full backs had a pretty decent attacking game, especially Richardson. Thought Bardsley had a decent game as well.
Sunderland were probably one of the most attacking and forward thinking teams we have come accross at Old Trafford in recent seasons (Apart from the supposedly bigger clubs), not many come to Old Trafford and look to attack or play two up front.
@ red phil
“Surely there is some kind of revolt to be had. Can’t we send anthrax to the FA? ”
Jesus fella!! You’ll end up with the armed coppers smashing your door down and then spending years in guantanamo bay with comments like that
@Tufty
11th is shocking for a refree. also why did he tell rooney to have a rest? and it was obvious that he was taking too long to book the players.looking at Wiley it is obvious that he ahs to knock atleast 10 odd kgs.he really does not look fit at all.so stop defending him.as i said in my above comment this issue has to be adressed by the refrees union on a wider basis and they need to recruit more refs.
You arent going to recruit more refs if managers etc are publicly seen to slag them off. Ive seen a lot worse perfromances than Wileys to be honest.
One thing that needs changing is the right to question referees after games.
Why arent managers allowed to question decisions etc?
Referees should also be more accountable, they should have to justify decisions to the tv after games.
Referees these days are all part of the gravy train, they get good money, get put up in hotels and are happy to sign autogaphs as they arrive and leave grounds.
There are certain referees who like to make a name for themselves. Out of the list of Premier League refs, I bet most people could only name about 6 or 7 and thats due to the high profile them select few seek.
It seems perfectly acceptable for a pr seeking referee to retire, then to become the voice of the refs in the media. The likes of Graham poll, Geoff Winter and Dermot Gallagher are wheeled out on a weekly basis now and 9 times out of 10, they defend the referees.
One of the best refs in recent years was Uriah Renney, yet some sctions were quick to attack him, mainly due to the fact he was black. As a ref, he was probably fitter than 90% of the players who he reffed.
@Tufty
its not about slagging them but if you make a mistake managers have every right to criticise the refs.One bad decision and the manager can lose his job.It also can tell the refs that they need to do better and be more consistent>if refs are not going to entertain manager’s questions after matches then its obvious that managers will have to express thir opinions about managers in the media and have no other option
Jeff winter,Graham Poll and the rest are absolute cunts.all they want is to seek attention and slag managers off(especially SAF).haha,one of them dosent even know how many yellows make a red
Can’t wait till next time Wiley refs @ OT. He will get “you fat bastard” chants all the way through the game
last year rafa basically accused fa of favouring us in his rant…wasn’t that worth punishing then????i think he got away with such a serious accusation didn’t he??
It’s the plain truth a referee at top level should be measured as covering more ground in any match than ALL players.
Why sports journos haven’t the common sense to see the logic in this is fascinating. Then again of course not. They’re all fookin’ idiots with a mostly anti-United/Ferguson agenda.
Not fascinating, just sad.
brett1985: Post all the info you’ve accumulated so far, on this thread, matey.
I’d like to copy it and then try to keep tabs myself. I’ve often hoped someone would do something definitive like this.
Is anyone truly surprised by the drivel that pours out from FA HQ.
FA = Fucking Arseholes
Arsenal 2-2 Manchester United (17.4.03)
Henry yards offside before running on to score Arsenal’s second.
Newcastle 1-2 Manchester United (23.8.03)
Giggs hauled down by O’Brien last man.
Manchester United 1-1 Porto (9.1.04)
Scholes onside when he turned the ball in.
Manchester United 2-1 Newcastle (24.5.05)
Smith hauled down by O’Brien in the box.
Liverpool 0-1 Manchester United (3.3.07)
Saha brought down in the box by Agger.
Manchester United 2-0 Sheffield United (17.4.07)
Handball in the Sheffield United box by defender.
Chelsea 0-0 Manchester United (9.5.07)
Eagles fouled by Essien in the box.
Chelsea 1-0 Manchester United (19.5.07)
Giggs fouled by Essien in box.
Cech clutched the ball to his chest bringing it over the line.
Mikel fouled Smith but Chelsea awarded freekick before Drogba scores.
Manchester United 2-0 Chelsea (23.9.07)
Evra fouled by J. Cole in the box.
J. Cole not sent off for foul on Ronaldo
Arsenal 2-2 Manchester United (3.11.07)
Arsenal score equalizer after fouling Louis Saha.
Bolton 1-0 Manchester United (23.11.07)
Referee fails to send off Davies
Manchester United 6-0 Newcastle (12.1.08)
Ronaldo fouled by Steven Taylor in the box.
Giggs fouled by Alan Smith in the box.
Manchester United 0-1 Portsmouth (8.3.08)
Ronaldo is barged in the box by Distin.
Manchester United 2-1 Arsenal (13.4.08)
Adebayor’s opening goal was with the hand.
Blackburn 1-1 Manchester United (19.4.08)
Wayne Rooney was brought down in the penalty area as he turned Steven Reid.
Wayne Rooney was clean through on goal when wrongly called offside.
Vogel fouled Ronaldo in the penalty area.
Carrick’s header was clawed away by Brett Emerton on the line.
Barcelona 0-0 Manchester United (23.4.08)
Ronaldo is fouled in the box by Marquez.
Chelsea 2-1 Manchester United (26.4.08)
Ballack holds Ronaldo in the box to impede him when ball is crossed.
Carrick adjudged to have handled in the box from a point blank cross.
Manchester United 0-0 Portsmouth (10.8.08)
Tevez brought down in the box by Hreidarsson.
Manchester United 4-3 Hull City (2.11.08)
Turner not sent off for lunging tackle.
Manchester City 0-1 Manchester United (30.11.08)
Ronaldo handball and second yellow card. No advantage gained- no booking!
Stoke City 0-1 Manchester United (26.12.08)
Tevez one on one but was incorrectly called offside.
Manchester United 1-0 Middlesbrough (29.12.08)
Ronaldo strangled in the box by Pogatez.
Manchester United 0-0 Tottenham Hotspur (1.3.09)
Ronaldo is fouled in the penalty area but is booked for diving.
Manchester United 3-0 Chelsea (11.1.09)
Ronaldo scores after Giggs valid corner.
Manchester United 0-0 Everton (19.4.09)
Wellbeck brought down by Jagielka in the box.
Manchester United 5-2 Spurs (25.4.09)
Palacios two-footed tackle on Ronaldo unpunished.
Arsenal 1-3 Manchester United (5.5.09)
Fletcher sent off but got the ball.
Wigan 1-2 Manchester United (13.5.09)
Ronaldo fouled in the box by Figueroa.
Chelsea 0-0 Manchester United (9.8.09)
Evra suffers head injury from Ballack foul before Chelsea score.
Manchester United 1-0 Birmingham City (17.8.09)
Berbatov brought down by Carr in the box.
Tottenham Hotspur 1-3 Manchester United (12.9.09)
Paul Scholes red card.
Manchester United 2-2 Sunderland (3.10.09)
Reid Handball in the box.
Liverpool 2-0 Manchester United (25.10.09)
Carragher over the ball tackle on Carrick in the box.
Push on Giggs in the box.
Carragher is not given a red card when Owen is through on goal.
Vidic sent off when first yellow was harsh.
Manchester United 3-3 CSKA (3.11.09)
Fletcher fouled in the box, booked for diving.
Chelsea 1-1 Manchester United (8.11.09)
Rooney one on one called offside.
Valencia fouled in the box by Terry.
Chelsea goal from incorrectly awarded freekick.
Might be an e-mail address here that you guys want to use, not that I condone such a thing of course
http://www.unions21.org.uk/recog/leighton.ppt
From my point of view, we should use the Ngog incident to take down the FA itself. It will show them that to respect them is not by campaign but the ref need to earn the respect.
Another one that sorngs to mind unless it has already been mentioned.
Roy Keane getting £250,000 and was it a 4 game ban for mentioning the Whoreland tackle, which whoreland got up and played on from. When Micky Owen said the same thing in his book and ronnie Johnsen had to get carried off and with to Hosipital and was out for a number of weeks later a big fat zero. The Stepdad commenting in his book about wanting everything United dead including tea ladies. again nothing.
brett1985: Cheers for the info. Much appreciated.
The FA couldnt fine Owen for his comments, as he was not playing in England at the time they were made.
You cant use Keanes example as a case of ABU’ism, as oher have received punishment for similar things.
Whilst ABU’ism exists, there are comments made by people on here that take bias to the other extreme. Its all well and good saying the FA etc pick on Utd, but we can find hundreds of exampled when Utd have benefited.
A reality check is needed by some.
Tufty – name just some of those hundreds of occasions where we have done well because of the FA. Give us that reality check because I’m struggling to think of any occasions when the FA have done us a favour. Referees have done us a favour (just like all teams at the top – we certainly haven’t got anywhere near as many pens as Arsenal do) but I don’t recall the FA having time to ponder on a decision and treating us better than they have another team in that situation. Care to give us a like for like example?
I want to point out something. The more you run means the more tired you are right? So Wiley ran more, so means he is more tired, needed more rest bite. period