David Gill claims that Manchester United are just 2,200 tickets short of reaching the target for the season, which is claims is reasonable given the current financial situation of the country.
“I’ll be clear,” said Gill. “Last year our target was 54,000 season tickets, we’ve sold 51,800, which is pretty good in the current climate. We’ve sold more season tickets than the capacity of most Premier League grounds. Our executive seat sales are on track as compared with last year in a different market. I think the bare facts are that the club is in good financial shape. The ticket sales have held up. We sold out for Newcastle and West Ham but we are not complacent and we’ve got to keep working to make sure that we fill the ground for every game and we’ll do that by playing great football, attractive football, exciting football that brings fans in.”
Is Gill being dishonest or is it as some previously said, that for every ticket given up, there’d be someone else to fill their place?
————–
So who was lying Mr.Gill?
Man Utd News 24/7
They must know the waiting list has disappeared
Surely if he wants to fill the ground, its time the Glazers reduced prices
He’d fill the ground if the Glazers fucked off.
Tourists and day trippers will fill up those seats, no worries. The only difference between them and your normal season ticket holder is that they are more likely to spend on matchdays, considering it part of the experience. Drinks and food is one thing, but I’m sure they would have a much higher spend per game in the Megastore. I think the Glazers will easily survive this.
Of course there are unsold seats I the MIGHTY DRASDO cast a spell on the Glazers and made all their money disappear. The club will now fall apart and resolve into a heap of rubbish just like Liverpool and it will all be my doing! I am hero an penis look alike but a hero nevertheless
at least we know scott is one
The ground has been filled both games so far and will continue to be filled as the season goes on and tickets are sold on a game to game basis. The waiting list has disappeared but waiting lists are a misnomer when the ground is being filled anyway. The Glazer’s seem to have reached the fulcrum between supply and demand so expect ticket prices to plateau now and only rise in accordance with inflation. It’s time people started dealing with reality instead of living in a fantasy world.
Gill has been dishonest since May 12th 2005.
What happened to the waiting list? The economic climate excuse doesn’t sound too convincing imo.
If they sell out Old Trafford with game day or single seats they will make more money since single game day tickets are more expensive than season tickets. The only thing they lose on is the cash in hand promise of having those 2200 tickets already paid for.
There is still a waiting list populated mostly by people waiting for multiple seats together in specific parts of the ground.
Gill is just sucking on that Glazzer tit like a little baby lamb…..can’t trust that bloke
The only folk who are trying to make something out this are the “Shitterati” those sad little hacks who keep praying for Utd’s demise and will latch onto anything which will help them!
The Supporters Clubs have got to distance themselves from all the Anti Utd bollocks they come up with and trying to say it’s their anti Glazer stance! Tthis is not going to work, as those who have a vested interested in bringing down Utd whether its media led or commercial led won’t differentiate and they will try any desperate measure to force a change! Genuine Supporters are just cannon fodder to be used and discarded!
So be careful what you wish for!
when are we going to stop bickering about all of this bullshit?
None of us know the real story behind the financing of the club.
Regardless of who fills the seats, they are United supporters. I flew all the way from Canada just to go to a fucking United game and was so disapointed to hear the fans voicing their uneducated opinions when we were up 3-0 over Burnley. How does that help develop support for our club? If anything it drives people away. Look at it this way, your green and gold campaign got many headlines. perhaps it is responsible for the 2200 unsold season tickets. HOWEVER, this means less revenue for the club which ultimately equates to less available money to spend on transfers. Way to go. Your innitiative has really served its purpose….oh wait…it hasn’t…it has only hurt the club.
And please don’t give me stick for being an “international glory-hunting supporter” I literally grew up accross the street from Hargreaves in Calgary.
United have unbelievable revenue turnovers. Yes we have debt but in no way does it actually affect our transfer policies as many have voiced on here. Let’s face it, after all the years Sir Alex has been in charge he has never been afraid to voice is oppinion on anything. If we was unhappy with the funds he received to make transfers, he’d let everyone know.
Enough with the anti-establishment bullshit on the Glazers and executives of the club. These posts are starting to look like some god awful Sun article with biased oppinions being presented as facts.
I don’t actually mind Gill, everyone has to expect him to lick the Glazer’s arses cus he’s their employee but for the actual job he’s doing I think he’s doing and has done good.
I can’t think why this wouldn’t be an accurate figure, regardless of any anti-Glazer campaign, green and gold campaign or anything that MUST attept there are thousans upon thousands of United supporters that are too think to understand.
You only have to look at the amount of people wearing their green and gold scraf over their new United top! This isn’t going to change, we know there’s a large amount of muppets that ‘support’ United and I can’t see anyhting bar that continuing!
United actually make more money from general sale than they do season tickets as tickets are more expensive.
Factors such as the recession, increased petrol prices and increased parking costs are factors why people don’t renew, as well as access to every game live.
The renewal figures are superb. Only MUST can spin them.
Liverpool has been over subscribed by over 20,000.
Many of those who gave up, are now struggling around to find tickets.
i think we all know why the tickets haven’t been snapped up, Yes the economic climate isn’t good but the glazers have as much to do with it as well. People will buy tickets all right but its a worrying trend, lest OT becomes a tourist ground, God let something be done about this
I’m sorry, but Gills deluded if he thinks the protests haven’t had an affect, though i wouldn’t say it’s the only reason.
@Giggsys chest wig: Where did you get the info that we’re 20,000 oversubscribed for the Liverpool game?
we all should admire how the club is run with so much debt n no body knows(including Mr.gill,Sir fergie (may be),MUST,Red kinghts) whats the club owner ambition ,not even once fucking glazers have come out in public have atleast a word or so..sorry scott to be honest we fans have no idea as well how capable are the people if any body buys the club…
what ever it is fans always support united and they will…
@willierednut if the ground is full every week then what effect has it had exactly? In fact the argument could be made that the Glazers would prefer to sell a certain amount of tickets on an individual basis because daytrippers tend to spend a lot more money on their day out at OT than a ST holder would.
I hear luis saha has turned to leeches because of knee problems. dont worry saha get 1 plane ticket to tampa because there is a family of leeches well over 5 ft tall including the fat ginger 4 eyed old gimp who neeeds the blood before another stroke
Mozza79 – I’m not saying it’s the main reason, but It’s had some affect, or that’s some fucking coincidence, that the ST take a hit.
I think its quite fair to say the economic climate is keeping fans from spending. I’m still hearing of job losses and people struggling to make ends meet.
I have a season ticket and can’t always get to games as I now live away from the Manchester area.
I really struggle to sell games on and have had to let my Young Nephew go for free. Utd v Newcastle 1st game of the season would sell out in any stable climate but I couldn’t get rid of mine. Champions league games I.E V RANGERS Can’t get rid. So I can only think its the economic climate and not the Anti Glazer protest because none of the Lifelong reds I know are Boycoting games.
Ps No I’m not selling Liverpoo, Shitty, Arse or Chelscum
james21 that’s strange to hear about the Newcastle game as it was a sellout.
For many of those saying they are boycotting, its an easy excuse to save face for other reasons.
Of the remaining season tickets, they are mainly in the higher priced quadrants and tier 3 of North stand in single seats.
A lot on the waiting list wanted the cheaper seats that weren’t available or seats in multiple seats that weren’t available. These people remain on the list until they get their choices.
Will be interesting to see if membership numbers have increased.
As the season goes on, more boycotters will retur
I wouldn’t look too much into it. I think the economy will be a big factor in it, considering that the prices increased too.
I agree with some people who expressed support for Gill. I know, he might do a lot of ass kissing, but they are his bosses so nothing can be done about that, but I think he is doing a great job for Man Utd overall. We are growing all over the world and revenues are going up every year, even in this economy. My point is that, none of us knows clubs inner kitchen and most of the info we get is from Media, who just can wait for Man Utd to go down. These cunts just want to sell their paper or get higher ratings, so they flood the waves with negative/panicy articles
@mozza79
I put an ad in the Forum under Matchday Tickets. Will do the same for the Gers game. I wont put it on Viagogo Because I hate the fact they fleese our fans.
RTNK – LOL, maybe Hargo should use them freeking leeches.
Jaysus some of you lads are all heart eh.Many of those vacant season tickets are life long Manchester United supporters of who I know several, who know several etc etc.They are fed up to the back teeth of providing the Glazer with more funds to finance a £60 odd Million pound interest debt they have saddled the Club with.
It does not take a Mathematician to work out 2200 season tickets gone,Waiting list of approx 2500 gone, Unquantifiable amount of first time season ticket holders? There are a lot of people unhappy and not pleased with the product they are being served up.
Not investing heavily enough in the playing staff over the Glazer tenure approx £2.Million per annum.
For a Club of Manchester United status that is a joke right! No it is not a joke its the truth.
You keep buying Shite, they keep sitting tight. Starve them out.
That is not to say as has been said we cannot compete in the Premiership of course we can and win it.
The big money as we all know is in the Champions league there is the crux of the matter.
Spare a thought for people who have put their heart aside and used their Head
This argument about the Glazer transfer spending completely bemuses me I must admit. I mean there might be a point if we’ve been languishing in midtable in that time or something but we’ve had massive trophies coming out of our arses since they took over. I’m not giving them credit for this but to complain about their lack of spending when we’ve continued to win trophies is just moronic. Also the fact that we took in 80m for one player has to be taken into account. Think about it that one transaction offsets four different 20m signings. The reason we haven’t spent big is because our manager, you know, Alex Ferguson, has decided he’s really happy with his squad and we don’t need any overpriced transfer muppet flavour of the month to make us better. If you disagree with him fair enough but make no mistake your issue is with Fergie.
Its Despite the Glazer United have had success purely what was in place prior to there arrival which they have not enhanced in any shape or form.
If you think the transfer policy is moronic to loose probably the best player in the World at the time albiet he did want to go, not to be replaced with similar.
Plus pray tell how the vacum of replacing the great players at United currently Scholes Giggs Neville and Van Der Sar.
Keep sticking your head in the sand with your moronic comments.
The bottom line does not change or alter if you knew anything about accounting.
Plus all this hosshit about economic down turn. Utter crap in Manchester.Check out your local area?
kiko goal vs oldham!!
enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyIp_46Ayc
Prescott, Strangely enough, there was only about one world class replacement for Ronaldo and that was Messi, I doubt he would have come. The signing of Valencia wasn’t a had one was he?
The replacing of Scholes, Giggs, Ged etc does not need to be done now. Ir can be done next season. It’s not simply a case of spending for spending sake, better to wait till the right players there when needed most.
As for ticket price rises, they went up year upon year under the plc, yet nobody moaned then.
If people put as much effort into getting behind the club, rather than trying to put it down, then the club would be a much better place. Forget the owners and support the club. Your either a United supporter or your not.
About time you got hot on this topic Scott.
About 10 years ago I heard the waiting list was 60000 deep. Now we have no list. Surely that shows that there is a minimum of 62000 reds turning their backs on the club. If you idiots that continue to support the glazers by buying merchandise and defending their policies and busines acumen then question the fact that 62000 minimum have had their hearts broken and walked away for the good of the club.
Scott, some of the people on the blog, including some of the real regulars have their heads in their arses. Just a heads up, although I’m sure you knew already.
Evidence points to the Club’s £104 million match day revenue holding reasonably steady in the current financial year unless the sir Alex’s side crashes out of the Champions league in the group stage.!!!!???
The Glazer Buisness model is essentially predicated on United qualifying for Europes premier competition and making the quarter finals at the least.
Yet should the failure to invest in the transfer market this summer on established stars impact more heavily than expected the agressive marketing campaign to sell season this summer may have to increase a notch.
Extracted from the United Rant site, my second favourite United Blog.
Red Phil get real, its never been 60,000.
Ten years ago the capacity of old Trafford was a lot smaller.
If the ground was empty, thrnbthe Glazers would recoup money from elsewhere, selling Rooney etc.
For all the increase in interest etc, a new overseas telephone deal is signed that mire than covers it. Clever businessmen these Glazers. Show me a company in the world that’s not been funded by debt.
If you want to boycott, want to moan about the owners then shut up, go away and leave united to those of us who remain loyal and support our club.
RedScot what on earth are you talking about? I already said I didn’t credit the Glazers with our success but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation which is we’ve won a shitload of trophies in recent years so our transfer policy can’t be too bad can it? As you said Ronaldo wanted to leave but you say we should have replaced with similar. Who exactly should we have replaced him with pray tell? Because I assume you have intimate knowledge of who would like to join us and who would be good enough to replace him etc. etc. Or do you think it’s more likely that our manager knows a little more than you about our players and what we need perhaps?
Also what’s the vacuum of replacing great players you’re talking about? Neville barely plays anymore and Giggs plays half our games at most. The only player we haven’t really ‘replaced’ is Scholes and we never will. The sooner people grow up and realise that it’s not a case of replacing like for like because that’s impossible then the better for all of us. We never ‘replaced’ Keane and we still continued to go on and win silverware and the same is true of Robson and Cantona and every other fucking great footballer to play for us. It’s an evolution, deal with it. Once again your issue seems to be with Fergie and not the Glazers so I suggest you make your peace with that and either get over it or direct your anger at our supposed lack of action in the transfer market at him.
You say my head is in the sand? Yours in is the clouds mate.
am i the only 1 who seen lots of unfilled seats scattered around old trafford at the west ham game.That surely wasnt a sell out
If people buy a ticket and don’t turn up as they are on holiday, can’t make a late kick off then its still a sell out even if the seats empty. United can’t resell that seat, unless its sold on viagogo.
It’s like the empty seats in thecaway end, these are still sold seats as the visiting club has to buy them up front. That’s why most clubs aren’t taking their full allocation.
Mozza Do me a favour eh Pal read what I write not what you imagine!
Your all over the place and not discussing the points.
You think the Glazer are good for United many thousands dont and have shown with there pockets they are not happy.
I will tell you this and make it crystal clear if you think we have a team to progress far in the Champions league campaign, so be it.Then you will witness(heavens forbid) the Club go Tits up.
A progressive club with liquid assets and cash at disposal prepares for the departure of its biggest stars with proven world class talent.I am not against work in progress i think thats brilliant. But beaware United do not have the firepower to challenge the like of Barcelona Madrid Milan or even a stronger Munich.
I will go back to my cloud, you just go to Cuckoo land
@Redscott
Hi mate.
I agree with some of your comment but it also seams you can be accused of burying your head in the sand by blaming Just the owners. I still think its fair comment to say the resession is a big factor and am witnessing it first hand.
I now live and work in Suffolk one of the areas least hit by the ressesion. I have noticed my buisness slowing over the past year when its normally been ok through the resession. My friends who I worked with in Manchester are and have been struggling for work ( All in the Building trade) Alot of People can’t afford season tickets for clubs and thats the end of it. In January VAT is Rising Petrol is yoyoing and most other things are going up without anybody getting a payrise infact alot of workers have taken paycuts to help keep their place of work open. People are still loosing their jobs and further cuts are on their way so money is still tight at the moment in many households. Pay the Bills or Renew your season ticket? I know if I had to choose it’ll be the bills.
@Red Phil, shut up you sanctimonious prick. I’ve been a season ticket holder since the mid 80s I won’t have my loyalty questioned by anyone least of all some jumped up prick on a blog. Just because someone is willing to tell it like it is as far as our transfer policy goes doesn’t mean they’re a ‘Glazer supporter’, that’s the kind of fucking divisive and silly language that leads to supporters of the same club falling out with each other. Let’s get this straight from the off, I hate that our club is leveraged with so much debt and I hate that so much of the money that the fans put into the club is being used to service that debt. However that’s how things are now and there’s no way to change it without doing a great deal of damage to the club we all love so much. The Glazers have been demonised by a section of our fanbase to such an extent that to inject even the tiniest bit of impartial realism into the debate is to leave yourself open to all kinds of accusation of being ‘pro Glazer’ and not caring about the club etc. If people want to boycott then that’s there right but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. As far as I’m concerned the only thing this boycott has thus far achieved is less of the old hardcore in the stadium and more muppets therefore worsening the atmosphere. The stadium is still full so it doesn’t negatively impact the Glazers one little bit in fact the extra revenue brought in from more daytrippers spending money probably benefits the Glazers. All this shit about waiting lists is meaningless if the stadium is full.
im going to see the Rangers game at Old Trafford, its the first time i go and see a game there.. truly a dream come true for me..
and all this negative talk about ticket sales or the Glazers wont bum me out im really really excited
@RedScot I addressed every one of your points. Are you not good at reading? Also where did I say I think the Glazers are good for United? I’m sure I stated the opposite in fact. But just because I don’t like the debt they’ve lumped on the club doesn’t mean that they automatically turn into some gargoyle-demon hybrid where everything bad in the world must be blamed on them. We haven’t spent big in the transfer market because we have a great team and squad that wins trophies. When Fergie decides we need to buy a big name player we will. Simple. This “you the the Glazers are good for United” stuff is the type of inflammatory shit I was talking about.
@James Hi Mate I will get back you tommorow. I cant handle it when people start slagging each other off.
Well done Mozza for being a fan for so long, hope to read more of your posts on football mate.
You sound passionate, but as i say to James I cant blog when it gets Nasty.I just want to start cussing then also.It leads to knowhere.
willierednut – yea hargreaves should go with saha to tampa, they should skip down the blood road together singing we off to see the leaches of tampa.
The fat ginger old gimp needs the blood since his next stroke cant be far away. But the entire family have got such big noses they can smell it all the way from their home. I bet the leaches from tampa have been sucking david gills brain has he has the inability to think for himelf these days
@Redscott
Take care mate. I hate it when fans get arsey. Its an opinion at the end of the day.
Get yourself a cider.
but on a serious note I look at the parasites how I see microsoft rip their customers off with the xbox 360. Do these parasites actually believe I will let them ass rape me like they are doing with every united fan going, its just like microsoft does with their customers.
like I am going to not only pay for a game but pay to play online and the fees wll rise
just continue to invest in a console that breaks down, even their new slims are seeing the red ring of death in this case for the slim the red dot of death.
buying anything from united is just like buying from microsofts 360 collection, what are they doing with my cash that could improve the product is never fully answered. its the same with united, the money well 70% is not going to improve the team, or look to improve OT. With the success you would think to to bring down some prices in tickets in some area’s.
This is what I do not get with united fans, if you are investing in the club you want a return if the club is doing their bit by making the team and club overall better, and in the next 4 years I doubt the club will pay back the fans by making the club and team better.
Mozza79 – great team and squad will only be justified if we regain the league this season and look to really put down a marker in europe this year and the next phew years to come. The post ronaldo era that has not been the case but its still early days yet last year was a pass the next phew years fans will get fickle and the media will look for blood.
United don’t want to be an almost team when united teams of the past have gotten to the finish line and won title after title. We will see from now until 2012 and 2013 has we get closer to the post scholes and giggs era, and even the just before the next world cup if united really have a great squad that can continue the success. Because we do not want to be another arsenal slumbering in mediocrity winning nothing and bottlers of the big games.
the current squad if its great or not, has nowt to do with the reasons why its not improved, there are other factors involved.
Hardly surprising this. Economic climate and ST holders personally taking the decision to not renew in protest to the Glazer ownership are the factors, although ofcourse Gill didn’t mention both, and has no reason to. @ed77, I noticed that too, the amount of empty seats stood out.
The opinion of the fanbase is clearly divided into two halves.
Both hate the debt, both prefer fan ownership to Glazers.
One section feels that if hurting the club in the short term will help in the long term, then they are ok with it.
The other section feels that the overthrowing of the Glazers is not happening anytime soon and insist that as long as the Manager gets what he wants, we shouldn’t assume the worst.
Scott, this debate has carried on needlessly for too long.
As far as I can tell, the split is pretty even.
Can you please run a poll to see which group is the majority, atleast as far as RoM readers are concerned?
@BD that’s exactly how I see it too.
@Rooneythenewking Quite the opposite of last year getting a ‘free pass’ I think the fact that we have a great squad was proven conclusively. We missed out on winning the league by a single point and were unluckily/naively knocked out of Europe by the eventual finalists on away goals and all this despite the worst injury crisis(to any club not just to us) in loving memory? I think we’ll win the league and get to the knockout stages in Europe this season. I never predict any father then the knockout stages in Europe because you just never know we could draw Barca in the last 16 in which case it’s a lottery isn’t it? People need to get over the fact that while we may not the best team of superstars on paper we’re still very very good with young players who are getting better all the time and no I’m not talking about the likes of Rafael and Macheda, although they’re obviously improving, I’m referring more to the likes of Rooney and Fletcher and Nani and Evans and Valencia who are all in their early to mid 20s and cracking players already. There’s been a lot of doom and gloom around the club all summer partly fuelled by our own fans doomery and gloomery and not signing X or Y superstar foreigner and partly fuelled by the media constant predictions of our impending demise. It’s time to face certain facts and get behind the team.
Mozza 79, you silly little twat. When was my post directed at you? Where is the realism you talk of? Tell me one slightly positive thing that the glazers have imposed? How long you have been a season ticket holder is totally irrellavent, iv he’d mine for 14 years, my familly have had them for over 40, what’s your point mate?
What is divisive is not a randomers opinion on the Internet like you or I, but these thick bastards who choose to support the gimps by buying the merchandise that is not needed. How fucking hard is it to go with out an overpriced kit for a few seasons while we get rid of these leeches? Too hard for some apparently. In the meantime real reds are struggling to pay off the debt.
The stadium isn’t full. Where I sit there are fucking loads of empty seats, there were last year too.
The fact that so many people have left the club, and say what you like but I believe it to be 60 odd thousand, means that the club miss out on regular statistics. With a regular crowd the glazers know to buy 100 hotdogs and 100 pies, with a non regular crowd full of day trippers like we have now, the glazers have to predict the crowd , resulting in over and under ordering every game, obviously this isn’t a problem with just the food, but when you throw everything else a regular crowd does, i.e. Food, drink, merchandise, raffle tickets, bet slips, everything, then we are talking serious money.
We all hate Debt.
At the height of the protest and with Unconfirmed bids being reported the Glazers still didn’t budge and havn’t to date. Maybe they don’t exist or their skin is thicker than Elephant Hide.
The daytrippers pay more than enough on the megastore etc. to offset anything a ‘regular’ would buy. I’m not sure you quite appreciate the fact that we’re a global brand and people buy our shirts and merchandise all over the world. They don’t give a fuck who our owners are or how much ST prices have gone up in the last 5 years. They simply don’t care. They do care about our latest kit or DVD or whatever though and they will spend their hard earned money on it. We’re not getting rid of the Glazers until they think they’ve maximised all our revenue streams and get a price they think appropriate. Those are the facts of the matter. I don’t like them but I don’t like lots of things in the world, that doesn’t stop them being true. Therefore I think the best course of action is to get behind the team by all means continue with the green and gold thing if we want but enough talk of boycotting this and boycotting that because it’s only going to harm our club and do our aims of usurping the Glazer’s no good whatsoever. The time to do something was when were a PLC, we should have made it our business to buy shares so a takeover like what happened could never happen. We didn’t and now we’re paying for it and that’s that really.
Here is my take
Support your team
Stand behind it
Protect it
Don’t stop
Under any circumstances do not stop
Manchester United will do the rest
@James 21 why would they budge mate they are taking approx 12 million pounds out of the Club per annum on management fee’s would you with such a nice little earner.
As i have said and will bang the drum constantly they love the Green back, they have no love for United.
There is the problem and i recognised it an age ago and tried to get MUST to do something about it. To spread the word to the Global fan base the damage they are doing bye purchasing kits shit grub and other non necessary twaddle.
Thats where i think blogs like this need recognition and support.
Its not sanatised and you cant say nothing wrong about United.
@Redscot
Have you relaxed.
I wouldn’t budge either but don’t all buisness people like the greenback/ Pound.
Its been clear from the start that the Glazers aint no Utd fans and I don’t ever recall them ever saying they were. Our club is a Buisness to them and any new owners. Edwards made a packet out of Utd as well. To us as fans its our true love and you care deeply about your true love. We as Fans have totally different interest to that of the Glazers. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want them or the Debt but I don’t want some Bigshot come in and 12months down the line we’re back to the protests.
Mozza79 – we did not have a great squad last year because united lacked plan B upfront without rooney, when rooney got injured the entire 433 system fell flat on its face. Because berbatov and owen could not play in rooneys position of 433 they are 442 strikers thats their trade how they work in systems. We add macheda and welbeack they both suffered big injurys so really upfront was our downfall in us failing to retain the league title that united should have won, but there was also other factors why united lost the league not just our lack of depth upfront, when you look at previous seasons.
but like I said on my last comment the next 4 years up until world cup 2014 brazil, we will see if this squad will be great. Because look at ages of some players in their prime at united now.
valencia 25 nani 24 rooney 24 vidic 28 evra 29 park 29 berbatov 29 fletcher 26. We add the older players like? ferdinand 31 scholes 35 giggs 36 VDS 39 neville 35 brown 30 oshea 30.
so really the bulk of this squad that has the experience, their best years that will define uniteds succes now until 2014 are these players.
james21 – our club and tampa are keeping their collapsing buisness empires from going complete collapse. they are not millionairs they are debt millionairs. its pethetic calling them billionairs
Instead of blaming Gill and SAF, blame Edwards, he floated United on the stock market.
willierednut – I blame our failed system bodys of fa and the premier league especially for failing to protect clubs from seeing their profits drained. when scumdamore’s no1 priorety is introducing the 39th game we all know there is no hope left when we have greedy bastards like him incharge
@James i am always relaxed mate apart from this subject and most certainly always laughing when I post, apart from this
Here here a buisness must make a profit that is correct.
My view though is you must invest in the future of that buisness James.If you dont have the bottom line because of the huge interest payments which reduce your bottom line how can you.
As far as i know and understand you have a top line as we know Matchday revenue Ticket sales, blah blah.Television deals etc …..And the new on line pay per view . the Saviour alledgedly.
You have costs Salaries operating costs etc like rentals and other items.
Also within operating costs appears any loans you have .i know there are tax benifit’s within that.
But still at the end of the day the Club is much more impaired than necessary.
James I just feel its not right to see Clubs like Barcelona, Madrid etc etc streets ahead of us in the ability to win the Champions league.
@rtnk
What protests are the Tampa fans staging? I don’t follow American Rugby.
our system nees changing so we can stop PPL like the glazers stamping IOU’s on our financial situation. when we all know IOU’s mean they never ever mean they will pay back the money.
I O U for the glazers stands for when it comes to united
I
Only
Underinvest
thats the glazers model
underinvest and take shit loads out simple has that like microsoft does to its customes ass fucks them
Exactly Willie and blame ourselves for not buying shares when we had the chance. We’ve made our bed and now we either have to lie in it or fuck off.
james21 – the fans are not happy I have read forums they feel the glazers are using tampas money invest in united when they are doing neither. But because of how NFL is set up there is no religation so tampa are never going to leave NFL or go under, they just have shit seasons making their seasons very much hopeless. its like group stages of CL but what is great about the NFL its competitive anyone can win it, hey even new orleans saints after katrina floods 5 years on they win the super bowl so its anyones ball game
@RTNK. Well said mate, some government intervention as you say.
There is your honest fan that follows United.
I wont list the Clubs that have been pillaged thats just sick.
Nite Reds and lets think of how we stuff the Toffee’s. Away to dream.
And do other things.
What makes Madrid or Barca streets ahead?
They didn’t make the Champions league semis last year. Our recent record is as good as Madrids, intact since 1967 United and Madrid have won the European Cup the same number of times, that same number Barca have won.
It’s not always the best team that wins, luck plays a big part, as do injuries.
We didn’t exactly sweep up before the Glazers. We didn’t exactly buy loads of big name players before the Glazers.
In 1995 we sold 3 of our best players, Hughes, Once and Kanchelskis and didn’t replace them with big names. Fergie then said there was no value in the market as he brought in Beckham, Scholes, Butt and the Nevilles who went onto won the double.
Anyone telling people to boycott ir not spend us doing just as big a job if destroying United as the Glazers themselves.
Support the club, buy what you wsnt
@Redscot
I think all of us want whats best for the club weather its the Protests or sitting tight.
I totally agree about the need to invest in the future of a buisness and I think thats what SAF Is doing with Bebe,Desilvas,Smalling. etc. We still have one of the best acadamys in the world thaks to SAF.
I really don’t know what the Glazers are up to because our club tells us nothing so we speculate.
I really hope it gets sorted so we can all get back to Football and supporting our team.
I might be wrong but I thought Madrid were in Debt up to their necks. Thought I read it somewere. Maybe wrong.
As for Shares I sold mine when made redundent only had £500 worth. I nearly sold them to Murdock tho.
james21 – and the irony is united would be financially better off under murdoch and thats a thought that is burning through every united fans skull. it just shows you the glazers really are that bad.
Mozza79 – I do like that name, the glazers are def gargoyle-demon hybrid, the anti christ of united when ironic we are the red devils. well a better name for them the gargoyle-demon hybrid canceris parasites.
I could write a book on how many things I could call these anti christs of united, christ I hate them with every bone in my body. bin ladden is nothing compared to this lot
@rtnk
Damn knew I should have sold them to uncle Rupert. It was a fair offer but I wanted to keep them. Eventually tho They had to be sold.
Well with eyes starting to look like an Extra from Tenko I must get going to bed.
Cheers lads.
as long as you do it for the love of the MUFC, it will be good.
now it is like whether you force the glazers to sell, or you help the club wait till a new owner with billions in his pocket to come. either way is ok.
LUHG
james21 – hahaha
I tried not to comment to much because when I debate the glazers I do go completly insane
Mozza. That is exactly the point you thick fuck. The fact that you just said to carry on with the green and gold but to continue buying merchandise is enough to tell me you don’t even understand the symbolic meaning of the g and g.
You are spot on though, the club is a global super power, hence the visual campain of the green and gold so little willy wong in china can ask his dad why all of a sudden we are all wearing green and gold. His dad might not know so he will find out, and before you know it, that is one more person savy with the concept of boycotting. It’s a shame you never took the time to do the same.
The season ticket holders are the most valuable peoe in the whole effort to rid MY club of these leeches. If there are visible empty seats then the media will report it. Media attention is the biggest friend we can make, stopping the money is second to it.
You can be bone idle and sit behind your computer screen and give it the biggun all you like, I will go out and fight for my club so that one day, when you, mozza 79, are supporting city, I will be back on the terrace at united partying to the tune of us scoring a beauty and hopefully the death of glazer and his mongrel kids.
Ps, fuck you.
As GHTT taught me
Love the King Love United more
: )
And one more thing, what is this bullshit I hear everyso often, including on this thread, that it’s our fault because we as fans didn’t buy enough shares!? Many thousands of us did our part. We bought shares. I bet most of the lads that have defaulted from the club bought shares. I just don’t happen to be a greedy multi millionaire.
2200 x 700 = 1,540,000
Rooney’s new wages for 3 months 1,620,000
Aon shirt deal increase 17,000,000
Loss of season ticket revenue versus sell out for 75% of games + day trippers additional income
= zero, * estimate!
Protest = FA
LU -IFIT
Gigsy Wig some great posts mate. You too Mozza.
Wow Phil, just wow. One day when I’m supporting City? Phil I own a green and gold scarf and I wear it to the pub where unfortunately I’m now resigned to watching every match as I live abroad.
It might also interest you to know I was present at every single one of the early IMUSA meetings on this very issue in O’Briens back in 2004. Remember the unfurling of Stubbsy’s ‘NOT FOR $ALE’ banner in the away end at St. Andrew’s in 04/05 when the stewards tried to snatch it? That’s right that was me. The Megastore stuff, all of that. I did everything I could in my power to stop the takeover before it happened including buy all the shares I could but unfortunately we weren’t able to stop it. Now I hate the debt as much as you but where we differ is in thinking that a boycott is doing anything other than hurting the club. I think we owe it to our manager to trust him and see how things pan out. Yes it’s been shit that the ST prices have gone up so much but when all is said and done all that’s been done is to bring us in line with the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal. You know, our competition. This is an unfortunate consequence of living in the real world as opposed to some idyllic utopia.
Lastly I mentioned my ‘credentials’ in the previous paragraph not to try and impress you or anyone else but because your arrogance in asserting how much of a fan someone else who you don’t even know personally is particularly fucking disgusting. Who exactly do you think you are?
Also Phil just in case you still haven’t figured out why I said we should continue with the G&G campaign but not a boycott I’m going to spell it out for you.
A boycott hurts nobody but us. If our revenue streams dry up it will be the team that suffers not the Glazers. It’ll take a shitload more than I’m comfortable with doing to our club to make these guys leave. The Green & Gold campaign does us no harm whatsoever. It presents a constant show to the world that the fans are unhappy with our ownership and would welcome a takeover. It actually contributes to the atmosphere which is never a bad thing and creates a sense of even greater solidarity between the supporters.
So as you can see I understand exactly what the symbolic meaning of the Green & Gold campain is you patronising little prick.
Fans is starting to think. The people are human and not data. They can think what is right and do what is right. They dont have to be like puppet.
although it is good to see fans trying to do something for the better of our club, i dont think a boycott of matches is going to hurt the glazers. like its already been said those seats will get filled anyway and this will probably put even more money in the glazers pockets.
you are only hurting yourself by missing out of goin to manchester united matches. Im from australia and deadset would give anything to be sitting in your positions and having the opportunity to purchase season tickets. I am making a trip to manchester just to watch a few games at old trafford next year.
so dont punish yourselves by missing out, take advantage of the position you are in. the seats will get filled. And plus we need voices inside old trafford to show how we feel.
Mozzarella, stubsy was in it for his own ego, a way to get his mug on the tv and known to fans ad he always tried to do. Nothing more.
As for IMUSA and MUST, they are only in it for the egos of their leaders, people who make their money off the back of United. People who put nothing in, but take a lot out, yet have the hypocrisy to call the Glazers for the same.
What have MUST actually achieved? Nothing but causing embarrassment to United fans, even more so with that Red Knight rubbish that has done nothing more than find a bidder for Liverpool.
They have basically achieved a list of 160,000 email addresses, which they class as members, yet more have paid any membership fee. Compare that with the 2 million names on Uniteds Facebook page and its a small percentage.
Anyone now seen in green and golf should be harassed and told to remove it, it serves no purpose now.
As for buying shares from the plc, fans didn’t have the resources to buy bug volumes that the pension funds etc bought. Shareholders United didn’t get its arse into gear until it was to late in the day.
It’s time to be United behind the club. Those that want it to fail aren’t real fans.
I disagree that the G&G campaign serves no purpose. It serves the purpose of showing the viewing public that while we’re still here supporting our team we do not approve of how the current owners bought or how they are running the football club. However I agree that it’s time to get behind the club as it pertains to the team on the pitch.
No need for the personal attacks on Stubsy this isn’t the place.
Im going over in my head where pople stand and trying to remember were they always stood , scott included as well as myself and i hope some peoples views are a change of mind or heart rather than jumping on a band wagon
the way i see it- The team is th ekey
fans need to get behind there team to push them to win
win trophys make money fund the club etc
the glaziers will not sort the problem they are in no way hands on
they need to sell but a club in debt but still in the green is a club that is good to sell
boycotting the match and stuff hit the glaziers in the pocket but it also hits manchester uniteds portfolio for interested clients. . swings and roundabouts , so if the boycott gets stronger it hurts malcom and the boys but it also hurts united and we could be put up for sale for a cut price that noone will touch because with the debt on the club its not worth the buy(it could be like that now and there in lies the reason for no red knight bid) , and as scarey as it seems i think united the club is closer to the state newcastle were /are in . if united go down in the future ill support them like its 1999 but alot of people will have to look them selves oin the mirror and not like what the see.
but as i say a change of heart and or mind is human. . . i see the way i looked at FC United when it begain and the way I look at it now, polar opposites. But My View on the glaziers somehow buying a club with no money always disturbed me. these days it reeks of portsmouth . I know were I stand in my anti glazier beliefs but I still have the new jersey that Ryan Giggs wears weekly and when I can ‘ll go to Old Trafford ,the place Duncan Edwards had a fantastic 1,2 with Sir Bobby Charlton. so the Glaziers can whip there Balloon Knots with my money I give the club because as I man I cant change anything all i can do is peaceful protest , and thats why I loved he green and gold. it showed potential buyers that this club is making money its fanbase is huge the team is winning and the fans are 100% behind the team and the cause rather than just giving up and walking away
Mozza, no offence lad but I couldn’t give a shit how big a fan you are or who you support. I respect what you claim to have done for the good whether I believe it is a different matter.
I guess where we differ in opinion is not about ridding the club of the scum, it’s clear we both want and demand that. I feel we are willing to see it done in different ways and extremes. You are willing to feed the gimps your money to pay of their mortgage but wave a little green and gold scarf with the hope that some rich prick sees it and takes a fancy to your attitude. Fair enough, it will never happen, at least not untill 2017, by which time every football club in English football will be bigger and richer than us.
My stance is that I’m willing to bleed the glazers. I’m willing to stop the money suply getting to glazers pocket in any way I can. I won’t pay for a single thing if I know they are going to gain from it. If this results in the team failing, then so be it. If this results in the team being relegated to division 16 then so be it. I guess it’s a difference in extremeties.
You mention how our revenue streams would dry up and only make the shirts suffer, well as I see it, we are already being made to suffer. The Glazers have injected a wopping 2million into the team on average each year they have been in charge! 2 fucking million. How much did city spend this summer? 142? It’s a joke.
You also mention how it’s been “shit” that ST prices have gone up. “shit” hardly reflects what it really is. We have no right being in line with chelsea and arsenal prices. We are paying a London premium for our tickets because you arrogantly think that’s the way life is. Also, if you live abroad now, how are you still an ST holder? Is that a porkie?
Red Phil, why don’t you just leave United to the Loyal fans who support the club?
If you have walked away, then you have no right to comment. Your actions,are destroying the in more than the Glazers.
As for ticket prices, I suggest you look ay the whole picture. On whole Uniteds favour quite well, look at the overall pricing not the top prices then compare. Take a look at what at what all the clubs at charging accross the ticket price range. Uniteds compare quite favourable.
Look at the percentage rises over the last 10 years of the plc, rises above 100%.
As for spending, we have actually spent if you actually look at things. We dint need silly spending like City.
Your deluded and United is better off without muppets like you.
No one and no Gold & Green campaign has hurt the Glazers but they are affecting the club and the image of the club. Red Knights would have had to borrow the same way the Glazers did or anyone else for that matter. Why didn’t us supporters buy shares in the club when we could have but yes I forget that many many supporters had shares but flogged them to the Glazers for profit. So why all the crying now will you not understand once and for all that football clubs had no choice if they wanted to compete but to turn them into a business enterprise some of which like ours into a mega business operation and leave David Gill out of this as the man has done a fantastic job. He is employed by the Glazers what do you expect him to do?? If he resigned someone else would take his place, at least David is a life long supporter
with all the bullshit that has gone on over the past year and you do have to factor in the recession for a certain amount of unsold tickets so to claim victory over the non sale of 2,200 tickets is pathetic and it shows “the movement” is not a movement at all and a large % of utd fans are utd fans and support the club regardless of who the owners are because theres no guarantees the new owners will be any better its takes more than good intentions and jelly beans to buy the biggest sports franchise in the world.
Mozza and Giggsy – Great posts lads.
A team that has got to TWO succesive Champions League Finals admittedly with Ronnie and suddenly Barca are streets ahead?? And Real. Fuck sake those cunts have done nowt for years. How good was the dippers squad of 05? Exactly.
@Costas
The problem with a waiting list is a waiting list isn’t a guarenteed sale.
Its like every single one of us here could go and put our names down on the waiting list for the latest Ferrari costing over £200k if no deposit was required BUT when push came to shove pretty much none of us would go through with the purchase.
Waiting lists are good for one thing in a business and thats the PR that comes with them, with the PLC they liked the list as it was great on the Share price. This is why they were happy yo keep season tickets artifically low. The problem is to generally keep a waiting list the price charged has to be below what the market forces dictate so to prop up share prices with waiting lists you have to sacrifice profits.
The waiting list would have included people who
1) Weren’t really intrested
2) People whos financial situation was different when they joined the waiting list
3) People who signed up on the basis of getting certain location or priced tickets which were popular and sold out. And they cant or don’t want other the available locations
4) They aren’t after just one ticket. I noticed that a number of the available were solo seats which may not be what they were after
Throw in those who
1) Have bought into the Boycot
2) Those who cant afford the price increases.
Without knowing what would have happened if the PLC had still been in charge and had decided that to compete with Chelsea and the likes that profits had to be maximised by raising tickets to the the rate the market dictates rather than subsiding it to prop up the share price then its hard to know what the sales and waiting list situation would have been
GHTT – I’m like you mate, stuck somewhere in the middle, trying to make sense of it all. Some have took their positions now, yet still we’re all arguing about the same things, every time this subject comes up. Lets just all agree to disagree, because weren’t not gonna change each others minds.
Giggsys chest wig. Are you some kind of twat? The club is better off without the people trying to save the club? I can’t even discuss this with you. At least mozza understands the issues, he just doesn’t agree with them, you are a whole other level. It is people like you who abuse the freedom of speech, you don’t deserve an opinion, certainly not one on a topic you know nothing about.
willierednut – Spot on pal. Thing is 15 /20 years ago NOBODY gave a fuck what when on off the pitch at any club. In this day of blogs , forums, net etc people want to know everything from the ground up. Hate the way it is dividing fans to be honest, we all want the same thing.
Also it was good to see Talksport thriving on the fact we have sold 2000 less tickets. The cunt’s were making out like the ground is half empty when in reality both games have seen circa 75,000 +. The abu’s are having a field day at the minute. No mention of the fact the bitters had 22,000 in for a European game.
@Wakey
Sorry, but I was under the impression that most of the fans in the waiting list would take any ticket offered to them. I know I would have. I guess most of them are after tickets which suit their wallet, which is fine. Other than that, do you really believe that it’s related to the recession? Are things that much worse than last summer?
@willierednut, GHTT
That makes 3 of us. I’d prefered our club without the Glazers in it, but I am not going to jump into the first alternative solution. I thought G&G was a good start to show that there are unhappy and worried fans. What pisses me off is fans from both sides accusing the others and acting as if they are superior.
@King Eric
Hi mate. How are you? It’s just a different day and age. During the Murdoch takeover attempt 12 years ago, you had plenty of concerned fans at the time too. But it wasn’t evident because the internet wasn’t what it is now. I think fans always had an interest in how their club is run.
Costas – Yeah not bad mate, how are you? Yeah good point actually . However at the end of the day the fans got behind the team in 98/99 and look what happened!!
Off topic – Someone on here said yesterday Ando was awful and could barely run. Well having watched the highlights the lad looked quality. Ran the show. Great finish by Kiko. Left foot, right foot. No difference to that lad. It makes me laugh how people bemoan our squad. We have some fucking belting youth coming through.
@King Eric
Fine, thanks. It was a bit different with Murdoch since the “enemy” was outside of the club so to speak. The issue wasn’t as divisive. I have always wondered though how United fans felt during the PLC era when at times Fergie couldn’t move in the transfer market as freely as he wanted.
I hope you are right about Ando. Some who saw him said that he still looks like he is carrying a bit of an extra weight. Haven’t seen him in a United shirt since February, so I don’t know if that’s the case. To be honest though, I don’t think that will be a major problem for Anderson. In the area he is operating, it might help him outmuscle the opposition.
” What pisses me off is fans from both sides accusing the others and acting as if they are superior.”
@costa
bang on
i will not support any cause thats based on utd failure simple as that,theres no plan except ruin utd so the glaziers will sell cheap to who?i would have no problem supporting a cause thats well organised with a decent backer but the g&g movement have neither its seems to involve people with a personnel interest and hooligans that just love the shit disturbing and trouble
@Dr.Hannibal
I still think that as fans we are partly to blame for the lack of information flow from the Glazers. MUST’s initial attacks on them during the takover were understandable and while their claims perhaps pushed the edges of being acceptable its business and no doubt the Glazers would have appreciated their attempts.
However when the takeover happened these attacks continued and they got the Fans in such a uproar that when the Glazers visited they had to be smuggled out by police as there were concerns for their safety. Since then everything they do release is spun by MUST to become an attack.
Would they have been more open without that, again who knows. Maybe but maybe not but how can we. I just wish we could go back and get MUST to to back off at the start and see how things went.
@RedScot
And most of them are idiots like you who are sheep who buy anything they are told. Just look at your reply here which is full of lies you have been spun
You say 60mill intrest payments, that would actually be 45mill
2mill spent on players a year, that would actually be an average of over £30mill
No-one who gave up their season ticket used their head. If they did so they would realise the spin MUST have put on this and the false figures used, they would also realise giving up their season ticket acheives nothing but stop them seeing games AND they would realise that infact the ticket prices are below that of simelar live entertainment that they could watch
“If you think the transfer policy is moronic to loose probably the best player in the World at the time albiet he did want to go, not to be replaced with similar.”
We got a transfer fee that provides funds that can be used in future if needed for a player who wanted to go, The other option was to hold onto him and in a few years have Real buy out his contract for peanuts. And we did replace him, Valencia was a great replacement and without Ronaldo it allowed Rooney to step up to the next level and we also saw Nani shine.
“The bottom line does not change or alter if you knew anything about accounting.”
You mean like you do? oh wait you have repeatedly shown you have no finacial knowledge or for that matter real life experiance. After all how old did you say you were before, 17/18?
“The Glazer Buisness model is essentially predicated on United qualifying for Europes premier competition and making the quarter finals at the least.”
For the ten millionth time that was the INITIAL business plan and if you knew anything about business you would know business plans arent done on worst case situations. The plans are based on whats needed to grow the business at a good rate.
Matchday and Competition revenue is less important than it was at the time of the plan
@Mozza79
The Glazers arent responsable for the success but at the same time those who make claims that its ‘despite’ the Glazers are letting their hatred cloud their judgement. The club like any business is a unit and the success and failures are shared, one part cant be successful without the others working with and supporting it.
“addressed every one of your points. Are you not good at reading? Also where did I say I think the Glazers are good for United?”
He only reads what allows him to spout more anti glazer lies and bullshit imho. Take his transfer spend figures, i have proven to him thast the average spend has been over £30mill a season when they promised it would be 20-25mill yet he keeps up the low ball figures (infact on this post he has dropped it by 5mill from on a post a few days back, 7mill clearly didnt have the impact he wanted)
@rooney the new king
offtopic but the way Microsofts multiplayer system works offering the service costs them money. The cut they get from selling the game isnt large. If its Microsoft game its a bit higher as they will get the licence fee cut and the publisher cut but from a £40 game that they make they will be lucky to make £10 profit and from another company even less. If you want a ‘middleman’ to make online gaming easier then payment in some form be it ads being shown or direct payment is a must for the service to be offered.
“its the same with united, the money well 70% is not going to improve the team, or look to improve OT.”
That figure is misleading though, it assumes that any cost that MUST label a glazer cost is only paid from matchday revenues. TBH also much of these Glazer costs are little more than non-cash accounting methods so they dont even deduct any money from matchday revenues anyway. It also includeds many costs that are Holdiong company costs not club costs to confuse matters
I could show figures that actually show that the glazers cost the match going fans nothing by shifting all the costs to another revenue stream. The only fair way to discuss this would be to work out the EXACT CASH COSTS of the glazers to the CLUB (not the holding company) and then work out the percentage of revenue each revenue source is responsable and then applying that percentage to the Glazer costs to find out the cash amount that each revenue stream is responsable for covering . Trust me do that and matchday revenue being spent on the Glazers cash costs is WELL below the 70% mark that MUST like using
@BD
erm I don’t fit into either of those. I don’t have a problem with the debt, although its at the higher end of the acceptable level so I would prefer it a 100-200mill lower.
And I believe fan ownership is the worst possible ownership type. Most fans live in cloud cookoo land and have no idea of business reality. If you look at Spain Real and barca are perfect examples of this, they spend stupid money on bringing in players they don’t need just to please the fans that own the club. As businesses they would have crashed and burned decades ago in most other countries in the world, certainly in the UK. Its the help that the local and national gov give them and the pressure the Spanish banks are under to bankroll their spending with intrest free loans that are rarely paid off but rather written off
@Red phil
The Kits are due to Nike. United have been paid upfront for them by Nike and the club only receives further money when they sell them in United stores where they get the retailers cut.
As for what the Glazers have done that improve the club. They have made the club more efficient and a stronger business. Revenues and profits at the club have more than doubled since the took over and continue to grow year on year. For Football clubs matchday revenues have always been the main source of income but the commercial side of United has been grown so much by the Glazers better business sense that its predicted that if not this year then next that commercial activities will be the #1 source of revenue for united.
@RedScot
Look you fucking retard. If you are going to debate anything GET YOUR FIGURES CORRECT.
They took around £10mill in management fees OVER FIVE YEARS. Thats around 2mill a season. The PLC’s directors on the other hand were taking yearly management fees of nearly £5mill a year BEFORE their share packages then paid them out a healthy chunk in dividends
@rooney the new king
I suggest you actually take a proper look at their US businesses and not the condensed information that MUST, Andy Green and Panorama want to spin to further their attacks on them. There is an awful lot of profit in many of the malls and the ones there isn’t are isolated from the rest and the liability on them is relatively tiny. They are letting the weak ones goto the wall rather than having to use profits elsewhere to prop them up, proping them up would quickly see them have to invest more than their current liability in them is. These malls do hit the profit figures on the holding companies accounts but as far as the cash figures go these are pretty much untouched. So the Paper profit was only $9mill for the holding company but the cash profit made by each centre is much higher than this.
@rooney the new king
The tampa fans are spoilt though. The Glazers invested heaverly to win the superbowl and to win that came with great sacrifices. Sacrifices which saw them limit their draft picks, pay alot of money and end up with players and coaches with egos like you would expect at Real which is never good for team harmony (hence why real struggle despite having so many stars) The Buccs are traditionally a nothing team that shouldnt have ever got close to the Superbowl but now the fans expect them to win it every season. They are kind of like city fans tbh.
American football is a rollercoaster, its hard to do well two seasons in a row and the Buccs have won division titles since and qualified for the playoffs which for a team like them is a major achievement but the fans arent happy with that. They want the Glazers to keep throwing silly money at coaches and players.
@rooney the new king
No we wouldn’t have, the debt may have been represented in another way but it would have been there. Businessmen and business don’t buy with cash in most cases but with credit. Even if they pay cash then the debt is to the owner who if they are a businessman expect a significant return on their investmenty.
Info on the shirt sales
http://www.footballshirtculture.com/images/best-selling-shirts.jpg
@RedPhil: Fair enough you don’t have to be believe me that’s your prerogative. I could quite easily prove everything I said but that’s another matter. As for telling porkies about a season ticket they don’t make you give your ST up when you move abroad you know. I simply sell it on to a mate but it’s still in my name. I won’t give up my ST for anyone, not the Glazers, not you, nobody. It’ll probably be the only thing I currently own that will be in my will.
As for your transfer market argument that’s been dealt with numerous times already in this thread maybe you’d have a point if we hadn’t been successful on the pitch. We haven’t invested massively in the transfer market recently simply because we haven’t needed to. Then there’s also the 80m received from Ronaldo to add to the equation. Who cares what City and their cash chucking billionaire owners are doing? We’re United and we’ll do it our way and always will.
Like I said I respect your right to do whatever you want and boycott whatever you want and will never call you names for doing so so I’d appreciate the same respect in return. There is more than one side to every coin and more than one way to skin a cat and just because people may not agree with you that sending our club into bankruptcy and probable relegation is the best and only way to get rid of the Glazer’s then that doesn’t mean they’re not as big a fan as you.
It’s a combination of a number of factors. In no particular order:
1. ST holders switching to the flexibility of buying tickets for individual games – perhaps they object to the cup scheme for example…
2. The UK economic climate, spectre of a double-dip recession, personal finances being squeezed, looming major redundancies in the public sector etc
3. The family factor, and I’ve seen this with loads of people with young families who can no longer commit to being at United every week because they want to spend time with their kids. Still doesn’t make them any less of a supporter.
4. The MUST factor 1: people giving up their tickets because they’ve had enough of the negative atmosphere, vile chanting and matchday terror activities
5. The MUST factor 2: people giving up their tickets on (misguided imho) principle. That is what MUST would love to have you believe.
And I genuinely hope that it is down to the latter, as this will surely accelerate the pace of the gentrification of Old Trafford, making it a better place. However, I suspect that it’s as much, if not more down to the other factors listed.
Irrespective, Old Trafford on a match day will remain full for all but a handful of fixtures.
Personally I think that some of the dissenters who made the “ultimate sacrifice” with their STs for the cause, will be sneaking back in on a match by match basis. Hypocrisy anyone?
Or on the bright side, their places are being taken by new blood, who can truly appreciate all the magic of a United game and spend a few quid in the Megastore to boot.
Happy days.
mozza79 top points mate
Mozza, at no point have I said I’m a bigger fan than you or anyone else, that’s a playground argument like who’s dad is the toughest, so you can drop that shit to start with.
With regards to the transfer Market I have to disagree with you. The world and his dog knows we need to replace the old guard and improve the attacking midfield area, even sir alex has hinted at that a million times by claiming “we were looking at this and that” but it never seems to materialise does it. Instead we are buying youngsters who carry more long term asset value, probably for the holding strength of selling on if we are in the shit. The 80million from that Portuguese twat is gone, lets face it. I’d go as far as saying we have 10 million a year to spend, if we are lucky. Smalling we are paying off in installments over 10 years and chicharito we had to fly to Mexico to give them stadium revenue as a bumper to the 6mill. Bebe as far as I know is the only player we have bought outright. You know we still owe Porto and Sporting money for Anderson and Nani. Not great business if you ask me, unless you are planning on selling the club with the assets of these players on board but unpaid for, a la glazer in 2017.
The bond package is marked as toxic in the city at the moment. Two of my friends, both bond traders with icap have been told not to even look at them for trading as they are failing so badly.
With regards to what you said about city and us doing it our way, well you misunderstood me. I don’t care about city or what they are upto, I was merely using them as an example of how big competing clubs are spending at the moment to stay on top and relevent with the game of today. Our way is to usually spend perhaps 30mill in the summer, up untill 2005, where we now spent a net total of 2million. Exclude the ronaldo money and it’s probably around 7 or 8 mill. It’s not good enough. Where is the rest of the money going? We all know where it’s going, paying off that cunts mortgage and buying him a new yacht, through our misery.
Wakey, I asked what good have they done for the club, not for themselves. The club being more profitable and increasing revenues helps united how? We don’t see any return in price cuts or player investment. Ironically it’s the other way round, price hikes and lower team investment….. Yeah, they are my idols.
Great post Pau H.
I’d love to see all the negative, glass half empty, believers of all the ABU / MUST propganda aimed at an outdated socialist agenda etc etc to bugger off and follow FC United so that 75,000+ of us can enjoy happy days at OT watching great football!
@Wakey good for you for your continual war against mis-information!
LU -IFIT
@Wakey Retarded eh. Neat, you are one smart Dude.Not.
I really dont have a lot of time to debate this with you, but if you care to take the fucking time go read United Rant or have a read on the links Scott has placed on the ROM reads.
Everything I said is listed on there.Read the comments.
My Net transfer spend bang on and accurate, not total piffle.
The none replacement of aging stars.As I again highlighted.
When you are capable of debating properly get back to me, you just appear child like to me.
Laters.
@ Wakey
You didn’t get my point.
The debt is a bad thing, whether 100 million or 700.
Prior to the Glazer takeover, our debt was zero. Now it is a finite sum. My assumption was that as fans, we want that gone.
And as regards fan ownership, I would put all my faith in a person chosen by us fans over Glazers any day of the week. Sure, they have led the way in sponsorships deals and have brought expertise in those hitherto unexplored areas. We can imbibe the good stuff, shake their hands and boot them out.
Real Madrid and Barcelona have a pretty unstable directorial system, and their transfer dealings make little fiscal sense. But that is the responsibility of their Chief Executives and board.
Despite the transfer mistakes, Barcelona have done pretty well recently, and I would love to see that many homegrown players in my United squad, ably supplemented by a few choice foreign superstars. Am sure you would too.
Costas – Yeah mate he did look rather big BUT I think thats his build. He is like Dalglish with a huge arse. He uses his backside to great effect though by holding off players. Honestly from what I saw he looked decent. Was winning tackles playing one twos and trying to spray the ball about.
Red Phil – Where did you hear we are buying Smalling over TEN YEARS pal?
Red Phil – Another thing mate, where are your figures of 2 million coming from since 2005? Nani, Anderson, Hargo, Berba etc??? Taking out the 80 million of course which United had no choice but to sell him.
Red Scot – What did you think when we sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in 1995 only “not to replace them”? . You CANNOT replace Scholes and Giggs. Have you seen the talent in our reserves and academy?
Wakey – You can debate the issues without calling people retards, just because they don’t take your word as gospel.
I am generally at a loss for people having a go at the anti Glazer protests its like you are not arsed about the state of the club as long as we are competing.
These horrible bastars are raping our club and its no coincidence the waiting list has dissapeared and unsold season tickets.
I know many many fans who have not renewed because of the state of the clubs and made the decision which was heavy on the heart not the waller.
I renewed as I cant imagine not going the game but still it paines me to turn up to see fucking idiots with the home shirt on with a green and gold scarf? Wear the shirt by all means but why do both what are you trying to support? I bought my little boy one as I feel at this age he should not be subjected to the situation as he just wants to see Rooney playing etc.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I am sick of the individuals taking the morale high ground against Anti Glazer proetests saying just support the team???? I do support the team but more importantly I support my club – Manchester United Football Club
giggs11gerrard0 – Hello mate how is it going? I think it works both ways. I don’t think any fan likes the Glazers and we are all concerned about the club in one way or another but you then have people slating those who only wanna watch the shirts and calling them Glazer apologists. I travel with a lad who hasn’t missed an away in years and hasn’t missed a European for 8 years and he can’t even be arsed with the protest . He just wants to watch United.
King Eric – Indeed mate , I have mates I go with who are quite militant and they hate the proetsts as well and just want to watch the game. My problem comes with people who have a go at the anti Glazer and say that you are in MUST’s arse pocket or just doing it for fashion. I am sick to death of constantly arguing my point on my view for the Glazers. I never doubt SAF who says we have money to spend but wants youth then that will do for me but what I am not a fan off id the Glazers milking the club and putting nothing back in.
Gill produced a dossary for commercial gain for the bond investment advertising that lost fans can be replaced two a penny, not quite the case now!
Wakey – firstly on your last 2 points firstly NFL. I am not being funny to tampa but they have done nothing for years and years. 2003 was the last time tampa were even a good team. one superbowl does not equel fans being spoilt. Now if they had 2 or 3 superbowls in 6 years between 2003 and 2009 and getting to the last quaters of the NFL yea I would agree with you, but tampa stink has a team and for them expectations will be low. United fans are spoilt but when many united fans and PPL on MUTV even all of the clubs officals call united (THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD), you better live up to that tag and keep being competitive.
now you say about debt. This is my problem, debt and football should not be in the same catagory because football does not make allot f money, when you need to buy players appoint new managers because fergie wont be here forever. You got to have a plan B if your club is not competing and to play Russian roulette with a clubs finance that a certain club has to compete all the time if you not got the finances is just plain dangerous.
you can spin it all your like and come up with glazers are not doing this and that which half of it maybe true, but there are 2 things that could blow and destroy the entire glazer model and be a concern for united has a club
replacing fergie
and getting players that can take over from scholes and giggs
not replace like for like but they can make the impact in games that turnes united from a good side to a great side.
Still with this replacing Scholes and Giggs shit. We’ve already ‘replaced’ Giggs with Nani. As for Scholes he’s irreplaceable but we have lots and lots of talent coming through in midfield. Players like Anderson and Gibson and Cleverley and Eikrem and James and Pogba. If none of these players turn out to be good enough then our manager will dip into the transfer market. We’ll have a very good idea of whether Gibson, Anderson and Cleverley are going to make it by the end of this season. We have to stop looking at this replacing such and such a player with a like for like player business in the same way. It’s an evolution from team to team. No we’ll no longer have Scholes and Giggs but we’ll still have Nani and Rooney and Valencia and Berbatov and Park and Evra and Rio and Vidic and Fletcher supplemented by younger players like Anderson and Gibson and Hernandez and Rafael and Fabio etc. etc. Have a look at Chelsea’s squad I dare you to tell me you think they have anything like as good a balance in their squad as we do. As has been pointed out we’ve never been about singing 30m superstars every single summer we’ve been about signing up and coming players and developing them as well as developing our own players plus the occasional and usually young superstar big money signing once every couple of years. We bought Berbatov for 30m two summers ago and since have won 1 league and 2 league cups and missed out on the other league by 1 point.
Some on here take the view that we lost the league because our squad wasn’t good enough, not me. We lost the league by 1 point despite the worst injury crisis in living memory, probably ever. Then in our two biggest games against our title rivals who we lost out by one point to we get fucked out of at least 4 points by the officials. Not sour grapes, not excuses, just a simple statement of fact as I see it. Feel free to disagree. And all that despite losing our best player the previous summer. When you take into account the fact that simply by the laws of averages we’re not going to have as many injury problems as last year plus the fact that we can rightly expect improvement from the likes of Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Fletcher and all our younger players there’s absolutely no reason at all to be down about our squad and the quality in it. It just smacks of spoiled brat syndrome,
Spoiled brat: “But mum, John down the road has all the newest most expensive toys.”
Mum: “Yeah, and? Do you not like your own toys?”
Spoiled brat: “Well yeah but….but they’re not NEW and weren’t made by HASBRO.”
Mum: “But they’re still just as good as anyone else’s toys right? Probably better?”
Spoiled brat: “Yeah..but..but…I WANT NEW ONES NOWWWWWWWWWW.”
This is the crux of the transfer market argument/farce. LOOK HOW LITTLE THE GLAZERS HAVE SPENT NET. First of all it’s a complete misnomer when you take the completely unavoidable transfer of Ronaldo into account but really who gives a flying fuck as long as we have a competitive team and squad? I think only the blindest moron would suggest we don’t. And most importantly of all our manager who has repeatedly stated the money is there for a big money signing should he decide we need one is very happy with the size, composition and quality of the squad. Yet according to the experts on here we need this and that and this and BLAH. People are basically advocating us spending millions and millions of pounds on players our manager doesn’t think we need. Does nobody else see the complete insanity in that? That’s what I mean about getting behind the team not getting behind the fucking Glazers. Fuck the fucking Glazers but the reality is they’re going nowhere so we have two choices, boycott or get behind what I and our manager think has the potential to be a great team. I’m choosing to get behind the team. That’s it from me on this matter.
The issue is when good players start retiring, Ryan, Paul ,Gary or Edwin and a ailing Rio .Ronaldo and Tevez leaving.
We dont invest properly then decine is surely a matter of time.
We can try and buck the market, invest in”Youth” and hope that works for us.
The lack of investment will start to impact the team’s performance eventually.
The 2003 superbowl win was the last instance of “sporting success” with two lost Wild Card playoffs the only other post season achievements since.Last year of course, the Bucs only managed 3 wins out of 16, their worst season since 1991.
Many Bucs fans blame the poor on field performance on a failure to make “sustained investment in the playing squad with the franchise spending way below the salary cap.This summers lack of big names and reliance on a large number of rookies seems unlikely to change many minds on the subject.
Poor performance, under investment and a weak economy have all contributed to the complete evaporation of the season ticket waiting list!!!
Despite price discounting and the abolotion of most seat deposits and long term ST contracts, only 40,000
season ticket have been sold for the coming season(in a stadium seating 66,000)
Willie I dont take nobodys word for gospel.I tend to do more reading than blowing hot air.
Its not a question of anybody not supporting the team thats Nuts to suggest that its a question of seeing and being aware of what is taking place before our very eyes.
Every United fan wants the team to succeed it would have a clear head start if we did not have the Monkey on our back.
As I said and will repeat for those that dont follow the Blog fully I like to read everybodys comments and simply educate myself on United
@King Eric on the previous thread mate on this subject I did explain this regards Ryan and Paul,in my own words.
At the end of the day we are all United supporters with passion for the Club and all want it do well and be the Biggest in the World.
Some people might need a wee refresher on the Glazer effect quickly “TOTAL COSTS TO UNITED IN FIVE YEARS”……………………………. FOUR HUNDRED and THIRTY………………MILLION.
Thats me on this subject also taking a few days off, just reading now.
RedSot – Don’t talk soft fella, you add to the discussion mate and give as a good as you get.
Who gives a toss about the Bucc,s and what relevance have they to United no wonder people get baffled.
@Red phil
The ticket prices aren’t London premium prices. If you think they are perhaps you should get out of Manchester once in a while and experiance the prices down south.
The increase was a big jump and its priced some people out of tickets which is unfortunate BUT they are in line with the price the market dictates for entertainment of united level in the North.
And Red Phil by any chance are you just RedScott under another name as you are repeating his fake spending figures. Under the Glazers ownership the average spend has been over 30mill a season. Yes you can argue that the club has also recouped money in sales, something which the sales of Ronaldo and the likes of Obi Mikel skew as we received ridiciouse fees for both players but what exactly is wrong with making money back. Citys owners haven’t given Gary Cook 142mill to spend from their own money for example, what they have done is allow city to spend any cash on their books and then use their borrowing agreements with the banks to buy players with the money they don’t have. Do you want the Glazers to go to Gill and say “Go and spend 400mill on Messi, Ronaldo, Torres etc despite only having 90mill in the clubs accounts, use the overdraft for the rest”
We have a quality squad, as a club we have never spent just for the sake of it and we have tried to balance the books as much as possible with sales just as it should be done and nothing has changed.
@Costas
Things are worse this Summer because of the redundancies that have happened in the last 12 months since they last renewed their tickets. Unless the double dip happens you would think next year should show a bit of a rise as things steady.
I do think the recession is the main cause, look at how much trouble musical acts are having selling their concert tickets atm. Major stars have had to cancel tours both her in the UK and in the states as people just cant afford the tickets, Bon Jovi were even running a “Buy tickets for one night get the next free” offer for some gigs at the o2. Now i’m not saying the g&g didn’t help those who had to conisider giving up their season tickets due to financial reasons decide to do so as that factor may have made doing so a little less heartbreaking but most of those who were giving up season tickets simply as a protest had already done so in 2005, those who didn’t then but have had other factors that pushed them to do so.
@Red phil
Its standard practice in football for fees to generally be paid in installments and for parts of them to be addons. For football clubs cash flow is important and such staggered payment plans allow for cash flow to be managed better.
On the Bonds it doesn’t matter how the city rates them in the aftersale market. Does it being rated good help the club in any way? No it doesn’t. Its one of these things that for some reason too many fans decide is important without understanding. The only people the aftersale market worries are those who were looking for a quick sale of the bonds rather than patiently wait for the interest payments and then the money back at the end.
“Wakey, I asked what good have they done for the club, not for themselves. The club being more profitable and increasing revenues helps united how?”
Seriously are you really trying to argue that increased revenues doesn’t help the club? What kind of world do you live in, there is big money in football and increased revenues are essential especially when you have clubs like Barca/Real being bankrolled by the Spanish Government and the likes of City and Chelsea being allowed to spend money that they don’t have and which the owners arent providing to buy players.
@RedScot
yes because taking 2 blogs where both editors are strongly anti glazer and using their OPINION is a great source isn’t it
Now atleast you are now stating NET transfer and yes net transfer is around that. Mind you that includes 80mill for Ronaldo and 12mill for Ob Mikel which skew things. Without the unusual Ronaldo money the net transfer spend goes upto 15mill and remove the unusual 12mill for Obi Mikel, a player we never paid anything for in the end but got 12mill for and that goes upto 18mill NET. And the actual spend is over 30mill.
At the end of the day the NET spend is irrelevant as its not about spending money on credit. If we can get good money for players who are surplus then thats great.
And Ive tried debating with you in the past which is why i called you a retard because you sit there and claim you aren’t a sheep yet you refuse to listen and make MUST’s claims at times seem reasonable which says something.
@BD
But Debt isn’t a bad thing which is the root of so many of the problems with this whole thing. People assume debt is bad but its not. Every business in the world has some debt even those you wouldn’t consider to be so. Even in football you have the Red Knights talking about Villa being the right way but there is debt in villa its just held in a way that doesn’t get people up in arms. Ande Chelsea have debts that make ours look like money down the back of the sofa and unlike us they have no way to service it if/when roman walks away and their credit lines that he opens up go. If debt can be serviced, which United is then borrowing money is perfectly fine and prefable to having to liquidate assets to release cash.
At the end of the day the best owners for any modern sports team is an owner who is business orientated and grows the commerical side and leaves the football side to those in the know. Thats what the Glazers have done
“Despite the transfer mistakes, Barcelona have done pretty well recently, and I would love to see that many homegrown players in my United squad, ably supplemented by a few choice foreign superstars. Am sure you would too.”
But is that not whats being done or atleast attempted at United. A policy which has many fans using as a reason to attack the Glazers for not buying 5 world class players for every position.
@King Eric
He is exaggerating just as he is with Nani and Anderson. The only money remaining on Anderson and Nani I believe are certain conditional addons which could still be activated. Smallings fee is apaprently 10mill with another 4mill being conditional addons.
“Red Scot – What did you think when we sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in 1995 only “not to replace them”? . You CANNOT replace Scholes and Giggs. Have you seen the talent in our reserves and academy?”
He was only about 3 back then so he doesn’t even remember it.
@willierednut
Have you paid any attention over the last 6 months. I have tried to debate with RedScot but he has shown over and over he isn’t capable of having one and I think when dealing with an idiot like him spouting such misinformation that helps damage the club by dividing the fans and encouraging actions that hurt the club that i’m entitled to the odd blow up at him.
He is after all worse than MUST. You don’t see MUST claiming the Glazers take 12mill a season in management fees yet he is stating that as fact.
Mozza79 – read my last post I said united need players that can carry the tourch not like for like. rooney yes nani maybe valencia is good but he does not add the craft veriaty guile of a giggs. but if hernandes who should def make it cleverly also I expect he will be the next big thing at united if they dont where do united get the kind of cash to buy these player who may also not be good enough.
But I never said replace like for like, was ronaldo like for like with cantona or van nistlerooy no he was different but he offered the same impact that helped united win titles, but dont forget ronaldo had rooney scholes giggs vidic ferdinand evra VDS even guys like keane and van nistlerooy from the 2003 era that had the experience to handle the pressure games while ronaldo developed. Now guys like hernandes smallen and cleverly will need that, and if tidy investment is not sustained in the next 3 to 5 years how can these players develope if I had a house and I never made proper maintanance my house would start to decay and rot.
RedScot – I am glad you giving your 2 cents on these subjects which is needed. I disagree trying to replace ronaldo more like finding players who can make the impact in the pressure situations in a different way. like how scholes giggs beckham neville bros butt offered their qualitys different to best law charlton styles etc, but these eras of 60s and 90s had one thing in commen they delivered trophys.
but what you said on the buccs how they replaced the quality experience players with rookies seems frighteningly alike to whats happening with unite. trying to replace the old players with youth players, I doubt we will go completly backwards but we can still see the glazers are trying to win success on the cheap. Like repairing a house with cheap builders.
@giggs11gerrard0
The problem is that so much of the Anti Glazer movement is built on lies and misinformation. And this then results in things happening that damage the club and divide it which isn’t good. I have said this in the past but if MUST are so sure that the Glazers are being evil why don’t they treat the United fans with respect and provide them with the whole picture rather than the one sided spin aimed at causing division.
Its taken a situation which isn’t critical but which fans have a right to have some concerns and to keep the glazers honest and they have turned it an end of the world situation using fans emotions and the fact that business finance is a complex subject where the specifics go over most peoples heads.
When you look at clubs finances across the board there really are other clubs where people should be more concerned because they have debt in one form or other and no solid business behind it to make this debt workable without lines of credit that are only available due to the owners wealth being open to help them keep the club going.
@rooney the new king
Tampa won their division in 2005 and 2007 so saying they haven’t been good since 2003 is a bit misleading.
And I don’t consider United fans to be spoilt, proper football is a a sport that isn’t setup to rotate success and we are a club thats got real hertiatge and should be competing. Tampa Bay Buccs however are a nothing team until the Glazers too over and throw loads of money at them. They slowly built up their success until the Superbowl win and then the fans seemed to forget that they aren’t a top side, they aren’t a side that can invest significantly without the owners funding it themselves yet they seem to be expecting superbowl wins regularry and expecting the Glazers to fund it out of their own pockets.
No sports team should have to rely on a sugar daddy and fans shouldn’t be happy when they are but sadly success blinds them and is addictive and this is when teams have problems.
On the debt you are acting like the model is unsubstainable and the business isn’t being grown. Again as I said to others all the clubs have debts and of the top of the table teams its only really ourselves and Arsenel who have the business to be able to service the debts and still invest in the club.
“replacing fergie
and getting players that can take over from scholes and giggs”
Concerns of replacing successful managers and key players is a problem at any club and while doing so it can see a club go through a lean period. However these same concerns would have been in place under the PLC. Its why the clubs been investing in youth and also why the business has been being grown in other areas so that transition periods are possible,
Wakey – Yes, I have paid attention and quite frankly, I’m bored with the whole fucking argument. You’re not gonna change his mind, and he won’t change your mind, so agree to disagree for all our sakes.
its happened before like 95 but christ was the timing to perfect to be true will it happen again. scholes giggs ferdinand leave in the next phew years and all of a sudden smallen cleverly hernandes will all of a sudden become men, and just take their places over night its not happened allot I say 3 times out of 10 youth players or inexperience players are like men overnight. It is still a tough ask for inexperience to carry the tourch that fast
Wakey – maybe it was misleading but what I mean is new england have set the standards over the past phew years of a real dynasty even though many feel they cheated. like I said football today is chaos it is such an dangerous game these days debt is just an iceberg and we are the titanic.
But fergie is god, he has set a standard so high that united cannot afford to be in debt because I can see allot of mistakes ahead for united with managers, united have never experienced the modern day manager change. And these mistakes are a financial black hole that this club cannot sustain, for me if united fail to get into the top 4 I would not mind because you cannot always be the big cheese, and even clubs like united are always will sooner or later will fail to make the top 4 its happened to liverpool. if its this year 3 years time 10 years time it will happen and we must be financially prepared for this just like any club does when they will be relegated.
united will never go out of buisness but financial wise united are not in great shape when the club is losing allot of cash every year.
No matter what we think about the Glazers’ ownership of the club, one fact is quite clear and indisputable.
The football fans of the Manchester area are subsidising the Glazers’ FAILED businesses in the US.
And as far as I’m concerned that STINKS.
@RedScot
Investing though doesn’t mean spending money on any player for the sake of it. Investment has been made in replacing some of these players already. The one area where perhaps we don’t have a good selection of potential stars to cover is for Edwin but i’m sure that that this will be something that will be looked at during this season if
a) It seems like Edwin needs replaced
b) Edwin makes it clear he is going to call it a day.
There is little point though buying a keeper who is 1st team quality if he is going to sit on the bench and go backwards. It needs sorted so we have a replacement lined up so Edwin calls it a day and the new keeper comes in.
And there is nothing wrong or bucking the trend in investing in youth. we have done it in the past with success, barca have as well. Its about getting the youth and experiance mix right, something Arsenal have failed to do over and over again.
And I don’t think you actually understand how the NFL system works. Most teams new signings come from rookies mainly through the draft picks (or by giving undrafted players trials’) and then Free Agents. There isn’t the same level of trading you see in football. Now Tampa isn’t a top side, they don’t and never have had the same draw. To get the top players in the past they have had to rely on the Glazers personally funding massive pay packets to persuade free agents to sign with them.
Should they really be funding the players out of their own money or should the Buccs be operating at a level that suits them and allows them to be self sufficiant. For us if they keep funding the buccs then rather than passing on the dividends they could take from us then we would be funding them.
““TOTAL COSTS TO UNITED IN FIVE YEARS”……………………………. FOUR HUNDRED and THIRTY………………MILLION.”
And again you are using figures that include costs that are
a) Non-Cash deductions
b) Costs that AREN’T on the united books
But Debt isn’t a bad thing which is the root of so many of the problems with this whole thing. People assume debt is bad but its not.”
This is pure and simple BULLSHIT.
Debt has two perspectives. For a person in debt but able – so far – to finance it, then its no problem.
But the company on which the debt will fall if the owners go under the opposite is true.
The Sword of Damocles is hanging over Old Trafford.
Had the club not been paying off the Glazers’ personal business loans then a new South stand would have been built by now. At £140mill. there’s no way the club can find enough money to finance this as the owners are taking every available penny.
The quicker their shopping centre business in the States goes bust will be the day most Manchester based fans will cheer.
@willierednut i’m sick of the whole thing to but its clear wakey has looked into this deeply and knows what he’s talking about redscot just makes up shit or takes information from anti-glazer blogs that are full of misinformation to start with and as i’ve said before the anti-glaziers want utd to fail redscot hopes we don’t qualify for the champions league thats just very very wrong what kind of poisonous group wants the club they love to go to shit just because they don’t like the owners there is something really sick and perverse about that
Wayne – Agree 100%, but they might as well bang their heads on a wall, because there never gonna agree on anything.
@brisbanefan
Except that claim is disputable and is so far from a fact its funny. It shows a complete lack of understanding of Glazers shopping mall business, how its setup and structured and funded and what the profit figure Andy Green provided is actually made up of.
Also to be funding their failed US business they would be needing to take more than 2mill a season and they would also be funding the shopping malls that they are letting fail not letting the weak ones goto the wall
@willierednut
I respond to him not so much to persuade him but because leaving such comments unchallenged helps make them ‘true’ in peoples eyes. If ONE person questions his and others claims and goes and looks deeper into it and tries to understand better then i’m happy with that.
It really is the curse of the internet that clueless people like RedScot can make wild claims and go unchallenged even for a minute and he will then have 10 people who have bought his claim and are spreading it as fact to a further 10.
At the end of the day I don’t care if someone is pro glazer, anti glazer or neuteral but I do care that all of our opinions come from a basis of truth and rationality. If you are anti glazer with an informed perspective that doesn’t get caught up in hysertia then I respect that and the same for any Pro Glazers (Personally I don’t consider myself in either camp myself. I have concerns about aspects mainly that I think the debts 100-200mill higher than ideal but I also don’t have an issue with some debt)
@rooney the new king
“united will never go out of buisness but financial wise united are not in great shape when the club is losing allot of cash every year.”
The club however aren’t losing money every year. The holding company where the club is listed as an asset is but the club makes great profits. Also much of the holding companies losses actually come not from any real cash losses but non-cash deductions that help keep cash in the club. For example 30mill is written off the holding companies accounts every year in goodwill, goodwill being a deduction thats made to balance the books when you purchase an asset for more than its value like the Glazers did with the club. That alone accounts for most of the losses posted by the holding company but costs nothing more than value on paper. Infact it can be argued these non-cash deductions make money because by posting a loss no tax is due which has seen United save over 80mill in its tax bill. Thats 80mill thats been able to remain in the clubs bank account and used elsewhere,
@brisbanefan
The club HAVEN’T been paying the Glazer personal loans though. Infact the Glazers themselves haven’t even been doing so because the tax breaks they get by rolling uo the interest are actually better for them than either paying the interest now or paying down the principle value.
Seriously if you can show me ONE company that is does tripple digit revenue or more that doesn’t hold a signifcant amount of debt on their accounts in one form or another then I would be surpised. Borrowing money is more often than not, more cost effective than having to make assets liquid to buy another asset, expand, start a new product line etc
United debt is managable, ideally you would want it a bit lower as its in the upper half of the acceptable range atm but its not unserviable or borderline.
At the end of the day the Glazers have at this point taken around 10mill in Management fees in total and have taken director loans for another 10mill that are to be paid back with interest. Thats not taking every last penny now is it
And the upgraded south stand is unlikely to happen no matter what. The PLC certainly would never have had a business to support such an outlay and while the Glazers may be better suited with their significantly improved revenues I doubt the money could be recouped on the cost easierly. Especially as you may have to reduce all ticket prices especially in this climate to get 90k into the stadium every week or at the very least rezone some areas to cheaper levels which may hit the increased revenue figures
@ Wakey
I understand where you’re coming from mate, but I would like to clarify some facts about the debt.
1. Chelsea’s debt is no longer debt per se, its equity. If Roman packs up his bags and goes, he gets fuck all. He cannot demand money back from the club. The only way for him to raise funds is to sell, and that is not likely in the least.
2. Yes, a lot of businesses run on debt these days, especially with the recession in full swing. But that does not make it acceptable. If there is a way that you can live without debt, that is always preferable, don’t you agree? We lived without debt, albeit more frugally, for more than a decade before Glazer showed up. Now we are the most indebted club in the world. That is just not right.
3. Debt incurred as a result of ambition, or a necessity for overhaul of the club’s players, staff or structure is somewhat understandable, although risky (Leeds, City, etc.). Debt incurred to enable a person to buy something, and leverage that very asset to pay for the debt is just financial bullshit. Its the equivalent of me asking you to sell me your car, and in payment, I will drive you around the block a few times in that very car I just bought. Its a nonsensical system, and the sooner it goes, the better for all sporting institutions.
4. Yes, Glazers have imparted a lot of sound financial advice, and have taken the club into uncharted territory with regards to sponsorships and merchandising revenue streams that no other club has taken advantage of. What’s wrong with a fan-based ownership structure with a business-oriented Chief Executive, who can do all that but still knows he is answerable to us if he takes us down? The problem with a single owner is that they don’t seem to get that this is more than a company, more than a business entity. Its a cultural, social organisation that plays a significant role in the lives of nearly 300 million people worldwide. To quote Barcelona shamelessly, its “more than a club”.
5. Finally, barring a few idiots who want Fergie to spend billions and buy up the UEFA team of the year to give direct competition in the money stakes with City et al, most United fans DONT want a team full of overpaid, underachieving, unmotivated millionaires. We dont want “5 world class players in each postion”. We are happy with the ideology of Sir Matt and Sir Alex, and that is primarily the development of youth, and squad that is composed of a core of homegrown players (who understand what it is to play for this club) and peppered with select talented and ambitious foreign stars.
In contrast to a few fools who bleat their paranoid agenda here, I believe in Fergie. If he says we dont need Ozil and Khedira, then we dont need them. Period. Whatever his instincts might be with regard to MUST or Glazers or G&G, the supporters trust him to make the right calls as far as the management side of the club is concerned. There is no need for people to come out and cry about the end of United just because we didn’t splash the cash.
Some of the attitudes I see in these two groups is ridiculous. I hope the majority are somewhere in the middle, with some sanity in their approach to this great divide.
Wakey – I know debt is a good thing but its bad in football because I just dont see united sustaining these numbers when fergie is gone. when fergie goes I just dont see the finances to pull the glazers out of this hole. the interest payments are a joke at times and where do united find the cash to replace fergie with a top draw boss who will be after a good salary and give him a check book because he may want to do things different. I would not be suprised if they sell up when fergie retires
the NFL model is a dream model and unlike this country and many they develope loads of talent and college football is even a bigger event than the NFL and it has mre interest. thats like saying the reserves are a better draw the the premiership
Mozza – Your post at 18.55 is one of the best I have seen. Bang on.
Wakey – Your post last night about someone being 3 back in 95. I know I just didn’t want to sound patronising!!!