Aaron Ramsey has today claimed the reason why he joined Arsenal instead of United was because he was made to feel more wanted and he thought Wenger had brought through a lot more youngsters and given them a chance.
Given that he is a self-confessed Manchester United fan, you have to worry he knows so little about our manager.
Sir Matt Busby once said “if they are good enough, they are old enough” and that is a motto we have built our club upon, and something Ferguson has always practised.
We’ll look at a few examples of young players at United, showing when they made their début and how many first team games they had played in by in the season they turned 21-years-old.
Ryan Giggs
Début: 17 years 4 months
Matches played by 21: 197
David Beckham
United début: 17 years 4 months.
Matches played by 21: 56
Gary Neville
United début: 17 years 7 months.
Matches played by 21: 69
Nicky Butt
United début: 17 years 7 months.
Matches played by 21: 65
Cristiano Ronaldo
United début: 18 years 6 months.
Matches played by 21: 137
Wes Brown
United début: 18 years 7 months.
Matches played by 21: 64 (missed an entire season through injury)
Wayne Rooney
United début: 18 years 11 months.
Matches played by 21: 146
Anderson
United début: 19 years 5 months.
Matches played by 21: 98
Jonny Evans
United début: 19 years 8 months.
Matches played by 21: 37
Paul Scholes
United début: 19 years 11 months.
Matches played by 21: 56
Phil Neville
United début: 19 years 11 months.
Matches played by 21: 103
Of course the list goes on. Take a look at Premiership teams and see how many former United players there are there.
What is interesting though is that with the youngsters that Ferguson has brought through, they have typically always been winning things. Since winning his first trophy in 1990, Ferguson hasn’t gone longer than one season without winning something. In contrast, Wenger has never won back to back titles, has never won the European Cup, and is four and half years without a trophy. It’s all fine and well bringing through young players, but not if you can’t turn them in to a team that wins things. Wenger has brought through young players only for them to leave for bigger clubs, with Fabregas certainly the next one out of the exit door. In contrast, the best products of our youth team have come through as teenagers and stayed for their entire career/past the peak of their career.
So, who has been more successful at bringing through youth? Sorry Aaron, the answer is there for all to see.
Man Utd News 24/7
You sure like stats.
He’s talking rubbish. We all know he was dissapointed that SAF wasn’t there to meet him at Carrington. Obviously Gary Neville’s persuasion wasn’t enough. End of story.
I personally think he thought that with Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson (and even Gibson to a degree) in front of him, he wouldn’t have made it for a season or two. Wenger guaranteed him first team football in his first season at the club, rather than being loaned back to Cardiff for a season. I don’t know why he’s in the papers though, he won’t be playing today.
Theres only one person talking nonsense.
Anelka
Vieira
Henry
Cole
Toure
Fabregas
Clichy
Song
Clichy
Nicklas Bender
Walcott
Denilson
Flamini
etc
You get the picture
Jesus man relax. He just made a choice he felt was right, just like Smalling did. It’s not meant to be an insult to either club. Don’t take it so personally.
Not worth it commenting on someone who has low self esteem on himself!
The only reason why you choose not to join United and opts to join other is because you thing that you are not good enough to join the best club in the world !
Yes Marco. We all get the pictures here,pictures of Fergie fledglings winning trophies not just playing football !
YOU GET THE PICTURE NOW !!!!
“Wenger had brought through a lot more youngsters and given them a chance.”
He’s not talking nonsense, it’s a fact. Wenger is the best manager in the world when it comes to bringing youngsters through and giving them the chance.
You’ve named 11 Man U players who have been given a chance in the last 20 years or so. Wenger has been at Arsenal for a lot less, and bought through many more youngsters. On top of the players Marco mentioned, we’ve also had the likes of Wilshere, Vela, Merida, Ramsey, etc come through.
It’s not an insult boys, it’s a fact. Get used to it. Don’t hate.
Man United have been the most succesful club in England for the last 20 years, and we have given chances to more youngster. I’m man enough to admit that.
Scott – “We’ll look at a few examples of young players at United”
Obviously I havent listed every single young player Fergie brought through or we’d be here all day. Surely you’re not daft enough to think there have just been 11 players who have come through the ranks in Fergie’s time, are you?
Oh, the bitterness…
Considering the fact that most youngsters at Arsenal actually feature in the first team a lot,he probably felt that he has a better chance of getting 1st team action there instead of here.
After all,even someone like Gibson can’t get enough opportunities here.
Well done scott,tell them so that they understand d big team among.Ramsey only think hes not good enough to play for united that why he choose wenger.
No no-one thinks that, but your trying to dispute facts. Get over it. It’s debatable that you should include Giggs Beckham Scholes and the Neville’s given that they were bought through pre Wenger aswell, and probably pre Ramsey knowing anything about football, although I’m not for a second going to dispute what he did with them was amazing.
And for the record when Ramsey was first contacted we had Fabregas Flamini Rosicky Hleb and Gilberto on our books so don’t try acting like there was less first class competition.
@Marco:
You have written quite a good list, and I know you can go a lot further. Can’t we just agree that both clubs are very good at bringing through young players, especially in comparison to other top premier league teams. You have to admit though that Manchester United have brought through much more young british players than Arsenal.
However…
Henry was 22, having played for 105 times for Monaco and 18 times for Juventus.
As good a player as Clichy is, you cant use him as an example twice…
Which club is more successful at bringing the youth is besides the point.
The point is…….As a youngster,which team is likely to give you more 1st team action,United or Arsenal?
That’s the way Ramsey sees it.And it makes sense considering Wenger’s team have a lot of youngsters in their 1st team.
Not even the likes of Welbeck,Macheda,Gibson are getting enough 1st team opportunities.
And its Bendtner – not Bender
Use names, not adjectives… lol
Oh and we also forgot that Fergie once bought a boy age 18 by the name of Cristiano Ronaldo from Sporting Lisbon and turned him into the best player of the world !
Sorry but I’m going to watch our noisy neighbours vs P’mouth………
Your forgetting that SAF has been around twice as long as AW, so he has had a lot more time to bring through these youngsters. In half the time Ferguson has been around Wenger has brought through just as many ‘Successful’ players
Anelka – Bought From PSG
Vieira – Bought From Milan
Henry – Bought From Juventus
Fabregas – From Barcelona
Song – Bought From Bastia
Nicklas Bender – From KB
Walcott – Bought From Southampton
Denilson – Bought From Sau Paulo
Flamini – Marseille
etc
You get the picture, yea i get the picture wenger buys these youngsters and takes credit for it! Aslo how many these players born near highbury or infact from any of the homenation????
4 years and counting…
Well we may have Ramsay a self confessed United fan.
But you have just bought a self confessed Arsenal fan in Smalling.
And I know which of the two I would rather have in my team.
Always Ramsay than that guy who played Tottenham onside last week.
@ Marco
How on earth can you put Henry on that list – he had already won the World Cup and was playing for Juventus before Wenger bought him. Hardly plucking him from obscurity, is it?
Scott the Red – I would not use rooney or ronaldo has good examples because even simple jack from tropic thunder would have played them 2. add anderson who was bought so rooney ronaldo and anderson are 3 examples to be left out.
What is the point of this article? And why am I wasting my time reading it? For christ sake why are people so bloody sensitive and fly off the handle just because a young lad makes a comment? So what if he gives his reasons for joinging Arsenal and not Utd and why does it bother you so much anyway? He’s entitled to his voice his reasons but is it really worth spouting out a load of boring stats to ‘win an argument’? Like Ramsay would give a toss what you think anyway. Get a life you boring twat.
@ Marco
”
Anelka
Viera
Henry”
They weren’t brought through by Arsene were they….
You need to stop smoking trash pal…
…you’re quite bitter!! Hope he scores this afternoon!
Russ said:”He’s entitled to his voice his reasons but is it really worth spouting out a load of boring stats to ‘win an argument’? ”
Well said.I can’t believe Ramsey’s(innocent) comment punctured a huge hole in Scott’s ego that he has to write an entire article about this,clutching straws,digging up stats just to win a petty argument.
@ scottpuffin
“Wenger is the best manager in the world when it comes to bringing youngsters through and giving them the chance.”
He may be the most consistent at giving young players a chance but does that make him the “best”?
Ferguson has consistently introduced young players into the team and blended them with more experienced players, some of whom, it’s true, have been purchased for large price-tags. The result is that he has won more trophies than any manager you’d care to name.
Wenger, on the other hand, has introduced youngsters almost indiscriminately, blended them with bargain-basement, injury prone imports and refused to spend the money made available to him due to his “principles”. As a result, he has won the sum total of fuck-all for several years.
I’m sure you’ll disagree, but I know which approach I think is “the best”.
is there something to do with maybe 3 of 11 is not from united academy?
It’s just the usual irrelevant sounding
off before a big match. It means
nothing and up to now he’s a nobody
From today’s starting lineups:
Young prospects Wenger has developed: Clichy, Fabregas, Song, Denilson (4)
Young prosepcts Fergie has developed: Rafael, Evans, Brown, Scholes, Fletcher, Nani, Rooney (7)
Case closed.
Well problem seems to be in the last 15 years or more, if United , Fergie wanted a player a player , he would drop it in the press , ask one of his international team mates to poach him , and he would come running to old Trafford, Sheringham,Yorke, Carrick, Van der Saar,Cantona, Berbatov , haha, Saha, Rooney, endless list , United have poached and now we can see , in the engalnd team it would have been done by the fergie sycpophant. G .NEVILLE the wee boy that loves the club, haha,
Hec.
you are inlcuding nani?
the arsenal 4 cost = less than 5M
the man utd 7 cost = more than 50M
“Wenger is the best manager in the world when it comes to bringing youngsters through and giving them the chance.”
How many of his youngster have become esablished Barclays Premier League players at a club that win the title on a regular basis?
Fabregas came through Barcelonas youth system and Henry and Viera were already playing to a high standard ina top european league.
@ Stringfellow Hawke. Put our first five of Rafael, Evans, Brown, Scholes and Fletcher against your four of Clichy, Fabregas, Song and Denilson.
MUFC cost= £0
AFC COST= Less than £5million
@ Stringfellow Hawke
“the arsenal 4 cost = less than 5M”
Rafael, Evans, Brown, Scholes and Fletcher cost a sum total of nothing!
Another comparison that may interest you: Rafael has won more trophies than the four Arsenal players combined!!!!
Nice one, Redbeard. Don’t know where he got the “more than 50m” from. Typical gobby Arsenal fan. Hope he enjoyed the hiding we gave his team. Besides, you pay for quality. I bet Wenger would have liked to have Rooney and Nani on his side today – fortunately for United, they’re not thick cunts like Aaron Ramsey!
1. Wenger has done a good job bringing up youngsters & unknowns.
2. Sir Alex has done a good job bringing up youngsters & unknowns, whilst winning bucket load of trophies time and again
-> Spot the difference?
well said marq….and united bring up winners
Arguments aside, good result for you boys today. Personally, I’d rather you boys win the Premiership than Chelsea, so good luck.
Thanks Puffin. Your lads can help us by stuffing Chelsea next weekend!
I think the approved word is ‘battering’ Chelsea, Fred…
Cock.
@Marco
Beckham
Scholes
Ronaldo
Cantona
Giggs
Name atleast one player Arsene’s made which is half as good as one of em!
Talking complete bullshit!
@Bagledesh Red
Vieira
Petit
Anelka
Henry
Fabregas
Ashley Cole
Ljungberg
Song
Van Persie
I could probably name a few more, but I’m tired. You are talking about players he’s taken and improved right (like Cantona) and not just youngsters coming through the ranks?
@ scottpuffin
Song?
Come on, mate. I know you’re trying to win an argument but you’re just making yourself look stupid when you claim Song is as good as any of the United players mentioned.
And if you want to credit Wenger for the likes of Ljungberg, Henry and Van Persie then we may as well start crediting Ferguson for:
Stam
Keane
Yorke
Cole
Rooney
Schmeichel
Solskjear
Van Nistelrooy
Irwin
Pique
Pallister
Bruce
Vidic
Evra
Valencia
You’re right! This is tiring!
@ scottpuffin
Song?
Come on, mate. I know you’re trying to win an argument but be serious. Also, If you’re gonna let Wenger take credit for Henry (World Cup winner before he signed for Arsenal) and Van Persie (established Dutch international pre-Arsenal) then we may as well go ahead and give Fergie credit for
Irwin
Schmeichel
Stam
Solskjaer
Vidic
Yorke
Cole
Bruce
Pallister
Sharpe
Ince
Keane
Valencia
Kanchelskis
Pique
Van Nistelrooy
Rooney
Evra
You’re right, this is tiring!
Wenger’s reputation is based on the success he has had with a handful of players,basically the ones you listed, but one can’t help but notice that your list only contains three members of the current squad (one of whom is complete pants and only appears to be a defensive midfielder because he plays for the softest team in the history of English football) and that Wenger seems to be largely incapable of replicating his earlier success. He is no closer to replacing Petit, Viera,, Henry or Seaman than he was the days they left – hardly the work of a master spotter and refiner of talent, is it? The world and his wife know Arsenal’s weaknesses, have done for years, and what has your genius manager done to rectify the problem? Bitch and moan about lack of funds?
Ferguson, on the other hand, has been introducing youngsters into the team for the past twenty years (remember Mark Robins? Lee Martin?) and has become the most successful manager of all time for his trouble.
You can right all the lists you want, pal. The trophy cabinets speak for themselves.
P.S. Do you still have a trophy cabinet or did you sell it to fund the construction of that stadium you can’t fill?
Dear all, apologies for the repetition – didn’t think I’d posted the first one!
Aaron Ramsey is a beast, hes a big loss to united , hes going to be the new fabregas. In a way hes right in what he says , so leave him the fuck alone . yes Wenger is a better manager at bringing through youths … even if its because hes a paedofile. we need him . luv the guy .
Irwin – Good shout
Schmeichel – Good shout
Stam – Probably the most wanted defender in Europe at the time
Solskjaer – Good shout
Vidic – Good shout
Yorke – Already one of the top strikers in the Premiership
Cole – Again, already one of the top strikers in the Premiership
Bruce – Good shout
Pallister – Already a quality centre back
Sharpe – Yes
Ince – Quality before Man U signed him
Keane – Quality before Man U signed him
Valencia – What about him????
Kanchelskis – Great signing
Pique – Done nothing at Man U. Barcelona turned him into a quality player.
Van Nistelrooy – The most wanted striker in Europe at the time.
Rooney – Already pinpointed as the most promising English player in the Premiership.
Evra – Already a quality left back
So, from the above, 7 of them were quality finds for Man United, or turned into stars. There were 9 Arsenal players that scott mentioned. Not including Overmars (career was dead when Arsenal signed him), Sylvinho, Lauren, Lehmann. I’m sure I can name more, but I can’t be bothered.
Thank you for completely missing my point!
The point I was trying to make is that it is ridiculous to credit Wenger with turning Henry or Van Persie into good players. Henry had already won the World Cup and was playing for Juventus before he signed for Arsenal. Everybody knew about Van Persie’s ability, the reason Wenger got him so cheap is because he is also infamously injury prone. If you do insist on giving Wenger the credit for these players, then I don’t see why we can’t credit Ferguson for the likes of Cole, Yorke, Pallister, Evra and Keane who, as you said, were all quality before Ferguson signed them but all improved during their time under him.
If Wenger truly was the master you lot like to portray him as, then I would have expected him to replace the likes of Adams, Winterburn, Keown and Seaman at some point over the last 10 years, but he hasn’t managed to do that, has he? What’s that? He hasn’t had the money to spend? A man of the talents you describe shouldn’t need it. Besides, he could have bought Evra and Vidic for less than he payed for Arshavin.
Wenger has done a great job with a number of young players, I don’t think anyone is denying that, but he is not the only one and others have managed to do it without the fundamental flaws Wenger has been failing to address for five years.
Lauren?
Straws? Clutching?