It looked like it was going to be Liverpool’s day until with three minutes left to play Michael Owen beat his former club’s back line for pace. He rounded Jamie Carragher and slotted the ball in to the bottom right hand corner when one-on-one with the Pepe Reina.
Oh, sorry, my mistake. Jamie Carragher hauled Owen to the ground and as the last man somehow managed to escape a red card. Given that Nemanja Vidic was shown a straight red card for pulling Steven Gerrard down at Old Trafford last season when he wasn’t the last man, a decision which was supported by the commentators and press alike, it is odd that Andre Marriner, who surely had a Liverpool jersey underneath his black referee’s shirt, missed such a blatant red card. A clear goalscoring opportunity was taken away from us, with even Liverpool fans surely big enough to admit that the likelihood is Owen would have scored from that position (God knows they saw him do it enough times for them!), yet our only consolation was a freekick. A truly woeful decision which cost us all the points today. Saying that, this is the referee who allowed Lucas Levia nine fouls without a booking and missed our two penalty shouts.
Carragher ploughed in to Carrick in the box, bringing the man down and touching, yet not winning, the ball. Had Carrick not been brought down he would have happily kept possession in the box as Carragher did not play the ball out of his path. As it was, Carragher brought Carrick to the ground and denied him an effort on goal just yards out.
Just minutes before Agger pushed Ryan Giggs over in the box, not winning the ball, but Marriner was again oblivious.
Fernando Torres took his goal very well and Rio Ferdinand will have to wonder how he allowed the Spaniard to get past him with such little effort. However, seeing Torres throw himself to the floor every time he was challenged reminded me what a relief it is not to have such blatant cheat in the team. Ronaldo, we wish you well, and whilst I don’t miss his diving, it would have been nice to have someone willing to have a go from the edge of the box today. I imagine Liverpool fans are happy to have a diver in the side if he scores vital goals like that though, just as we were with Ronaldo.
It was a frustrating afternoon for United, with us not really getting out of first gear, yet Antonio Valencia came painfully close to scoring after Owen played him in, but the effort came back off the woodwork.
In the first half, Wayne Rooney came closest to scoring with a header that he couldn’t quite direct past Reina, whilst Liverpool’s best attempt was a Fabio Aurelio freekick which Van der Sar saved.
The only consolation from today’s result is that we’re still only two points off the top and four points clear of Liverpool. Their fans claim we will always be in their shadow, but after winning our 18th title last season and seeing their players celebrate as though they had actually won a trophy (something which has evaded them for years) it is clear the tide has changed. The last time I saw our goalkeeper run the length of the pitch to celebrate with our players was when Giggsy scored our second against Wigan the season before last, wrapping up the title. It seems as though just beating United at home is reason enough for Reina to do the same. Saying that, Reina conceded the title in mid-September so it is no surprise playing United is his cup final.
We weren’t good enough today but a referee who could do his job would have seen us get at least a point, with Liverpool also failing to set the world alight despite the favourable position they were given by the ref. This is a spanner in the works as far as our title challenge goes but hopefully next weekend we won’t be playing against twelve men and we’ll get ourselves back on track.
We’ll never die.
Man Utd News 24/7
Hear, hear, Scott.
And we live to fight another day.
WE ARE UNITED.
Yes it was a straight red and the ref bottled it completely. At worse it should have been a second yellow because Carragher should have been booked earlier for taking out Rooney when he span round him. Still though….doesn’t change the fact United were rubbish on the day.
I will stand by it. Michael Owen should be starting ahead of Berbatov.
Owent doesn’t yet have the fitness levels to be playing ahead of Berbs. The worrying thing is that as a partnership Berb+Owen makes the most sense. But we cant leave out rooney.. thats a good problem to have, but right now we dont seem to be able to figure the best way of utilising all 3.
Scott, i love you and your blog. But it think referee was not at fault for our failings today. They wanted it better, they were lucky today, we played the game we usually play against the heavy opposition away.
I think you suffer much more than i do but you know that the most important times are still ahead. And without Ronaldo we are still doing well and the better things are still to come.
PS. Good to have you here so rapidly.
Diabolical decision. Owen had him beaten for pace, no doubt about it. Instead of a goal, we end up with a free-kick and a yellow card to Carragher’s name that was of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. We were royally fucked on that count.
It’s one thing not knowing what to do when a beachball plays a role in a goal, it’s another to get a straightforward call so badly wrong.
Doesn’t matter how much you don’t deserve a game – even by our admission – you still expect the referee to make the easiest of calls. Demote him.
it was a red card without a shut of a doubt.
Speak up Fergie… That fucking ref was a scouse bastard.
My initial rage has now subsided. United didn’t come out all guns blazing, couldn’t raise their game when it mattered and other than the big man in the nets and I’m sure most of the players will feel they could have done better in all parts of the pitch and will be having a quiet word with themselves in a darkened room.
I’m obviously not entirely happy. But United will get their act together again soon, important players like Fletcher will be back and we are within striking distance of the top.
Let’s look forward to United thrashing seven bells out of Blackburn next weekend.
Fergie cant say anything. The FA bastards already have a charge out on him. The press is also just waiting to pounce on him if he criticises the ref.
A half fit Michael Owen is still more use than Berbatov. Berbatov is constantly falling to the ground and then getting up with all the energy of 70 year old man, only after pulling his socks up I might add. He lays passes off to no one and then flings his arms and moans they should have been there. He isnt at all a threat against teams, you can count the chances he gets in one month on one hand and for a 30 million pound striker it is pathetic.
Were the team tired or sumfin? We were dreadful today but what ticks me off is the fact that when were losing or playing badly there’s no-one in the technical area geeing up or instructing the players!
11 goals conceded after 10 games.
Liverpool have found a way to stifle the way we play. And it is a simple trick: when a united player gets the ball, two (or three) liverpool players come charging in. This breaks the united passing play so we’re forced to switch to playing long balls. Obviously playing long balls doesn’t help our cause.
Given that the scousers and the FSW used this trick last year and it worked magnificently, I’m a bit gutted ’cause we never had a plan C this year as well.
But we’ll still win the league!
The back 4 was a mess n to me evra is ok. i think rio celebrity life is getting on him.o’shea was mess n cannot read the game.the midfield do more defending than attacking. we need anderson muscle there. to many long ball n no through ball. is this gonna be happening in the future. winning the league but never win against liverpool?
I just have to say what an excellent name FuckRafa is.
Poor vidic, He had to tackle Kuyt from clear run towards goalkeeper, Giggs should not have give away the possession cheaply when we are attacking with both center halves at halfway line. I guess tomorrow people will slate Vidic for three straight red cards against the dipper. He had Torres (the diving cunt) in his back pocket most of the game. But we have to admit player like Torres only need one moment of brilliance to score against any team.
To be honest, Rooney should have been rested. He was our poor performer for the last couple of games. Maybe he is carrying injury or his mind is distracted on being a father. We did not show our true characteristic and have no hunger to win the ball. So today, Liverpool deserve their win, they worked hard for 90 minutes. Though I personally think the referee is a cunt. He gave Lucas the license to tackle at will without giving out a card. How the hell Carracunt did not received the marching order for the tackle against Owen. Injustice but I can’t deny that we were poor. The only good performer in our team today was VDS and Valencia. Owen did okay when he came on for Berba.
Let us look forward for the next game and put this performance behind. But SAF should seriously think about our starting eleven and stop rotating. IF we play like this against Chelski, I would not be surprised if we were beaten by greater goal margin.
Vidic must hate those dippers.
this match was as frustrating as the ucl finals vs barca because no one turned up. as much as we had some decisions against us (esp the 9 fouls by lucas) we really didn’t play well. rooney was absent… in fact berba played better. carrick played with no sense of urgency or drive. valencia and scholes looked subdued. and rio… let’s not go there. evra seemed to lack in stamina toward the middle of the 2nd half. his game suddenly deteriorated dramatically. we definitely missed fletch today. and i can’t wait for hargo to be back.
Not much to say really. Liverpool were better. From start to finish. We showed glimpses of what we can do, but for a strange reason, i sensed we were intimidated by them. I get how upset ALL of us are, but there is no sense in arguing about it anymore. If Sir Alex comes out and blames the Marinner, then we have a serious problem on our hands. Because he did not cause our downfall today, no matter how shit he was.
I was at the dressing room and i can excusively tell u guys the fucking ref had a liverpool jersey inside his black ugly top
@ Costas
i love you my friend !
MUFC THE RELIGION
Andy Mariner had the biggest game of his career and he bottled it… don’t get me wrong we played shit and probably all in all they deserved the points. The thing that inecnsed me more than the Owen decision was the fact that mascherano and Lucas went unpunished after about 6 or 7 fouls each. Finally mascherano got a yellow for his tackle on Evra but he should have already been booked by then. Same thing with Carragher, 5 or 6 little fouls and then a tackle to stop Rooney starting an attack…. yet he gets nothing. Then our stats… Evra gets a yellow on his second foul, Berbatov was booked on his first foul and Vidic’s first yellow was extremely soft. How can Fergie not comment about refs when the standard is so low. Also i can’t understand how Neville, Anderson and Owen didn’t start. Neville would have brought experience at the back, Anderson rarely loses a physical battle in the middle and Rooney was clearly not 100% so why not give Owen a chance to shine. That’s what we bought him for!!!
Shity – Fulham 2-2
@ Sam
If you were in the dressing room, you may have noticed the ref’s top was yellow!
I’m absolutely gutted. It’s not just that we lost, but we never looked like we were up for it. I think the ref being shit contributed to that, frustrating our players. It was just a poor performance today, perhaps coming back from Moscow had something to do with it.
We play Blackburn on my birthday, I hope Fergie can give me a win. God knows we need a good result going to visit Chav$ki the following week.
When is everyone gonna wake up and stop defending that lazy bulgarian twat upfront,32m to do a fancy flick every now and again,The guy looks totally disinterested,no passion just throws his GLOVES up in the air and moans alot..he never looks like scoring unike torres who looks like scoring every time he gets the ball..im sick ov hearing about berbatov’s fancy skills ..hes shit..hes the link man from midfield to attack he should be showing for the ball every time…but just gets muscled of the ball and falls down blaming others..Owen for me is a far greater goal threat ..keeps the centrebacks movin constantly..his movement is 1st class and hes looks like scorin unlike the lazy twat!! Also Carrick needs to know which way he’s shooting,constantly passing the ball backwards the nesh bastard..sell the twats..We need a world class centre mid…Robson,Keane,Ince,Scholes……CARRICK….come on alex wake up hes just not good enough!!
I know im gonna get slated by all u berba lovers ..but come on get real!! the guys a lazy twat….end of.
A red card and two pens missed by the ref won’t overshadow a dreadful performance. Midfield wasn’t just good enough for the day. Owen made two chances though, was positive and deserves more time on the pitch.
@Corea:
Thanks. I had to take 1 hour to cool off before coming here! I am more disappointed because as i said, i am starting to sense fear for Liverpool whenever we play them. We have no conviction against them. Anyway, this is their day, but nothing was won or lost today. We have a long way to go yet. And this gives Fergie an opportunity to reflect on the weaknesses that this team has. I think the last few results might have covered them up a bit.
All in all, a poor performance much like both performances against Liverpool last year.
We all expected far more, we were too slow to everything and only really rallied after the opening goal. Is there a chance the game in Moscow took it out of the players?
Darren Fletcher – again today proves how vital he is. Is it any coincidence he has not played in our last three defeats – Barcelona, Burnley, Liverpool. Looking forward to having him and Hargreaves fit.
Scott – you mentioned before the game:
‘if anyone is going to be subbed off for Owen today, it shouldn’t be Berbatov.’
I cannot understand why at a goal down with 20 minutes left, SAF decided to take off Berbatov – arguably our best attacking player today – and replace him with Owen.
I would have thought it would have made more sense to play all 3 strikers and go for broke – as soon as Berbatov went off we struggled to get any hold of the ball up front!
We will move onwards and upwards as we always do, but we need to get a run of wins and performances going, looks like we have a nice run of 11 games after Chelsea away where we can pile on the pressure.
Fernando Torres, falling like a pine
@ Jamiekey1975 You are spot on about Berbatov, but certain United fans are blind with faith. I find it quite insulting that Berbatov earns more for a truly pathetic performance like that then I do in probably about 4 years. No strength, no pace, and ultimately no goals! Only SAF and United fans loyal to the point of ridiculous agree that he has been a good buy, when in reality he has been nothing short of a disaster.
Just briefly, first off… good to see the website shown on Sky Sports News earlier (they were reporting on the Cantona masks)…
Right, on today’s game. The ref was shocking, which I think has been covered already… I should add that all this ‘Respect for Referees’ initiative will never get my backing until they feckin’ earn it.
As for United’s performance – my only comment on this is that until Ferguson picks a team, or more specifically a midfield, to compete, they’re not gonna win these games. We need energy in midfield in these games as well as a strong referee. Today we had neither.
The last win at Anfield two seasons ago featured Anderson and Hargreaves in central midfield – far more bite than today’s selection of Scholes and Carrick… I just think in the absence of Fletcher, they should have played Ando and maybe Carrick or even Sheasie there…
The good news on that is that at least (hopefully) Hargo will be back for the return, which is at a far more important time of the season…
Yes, we were shit today. But lads, take heart from how much this means to the dippers. This IS their cup final, and I for one will unhappily take two defeats against them if it means title number 19. We’re bigger than this – we lost, we move on, The one consolation is that N’Gog’s goal means he’ll not be sold for ages.
SAF is on now, and he’s totally right liverpool deserved it but the ref done us no favours…
@thesavage
thanks mate. did you see how rafa was pulling his pants up to his waist 3 or 4 times today? he must have lost quite some weight. :-/
@ Costas
70% of the MU followers were confident we won’t win things this year. Every bit of trophy we win in these circumstances will be special for them.
It is so annoying losing to scousers but important times are stil ahead and as you said Fergie has to rethink some things and i think we can only get better.
I thought Berba started the game well, but the ref didn’t help with his dodgy decisions, what was his booking for? I also think we’ll get the best out of Carrick plying alongside Fletch or Hargo (when he’s back), but Fergie hasn’t chosen that midfield partnership yet? We’ll bounce back from this, no doubt. At least the bitters dropped points at home after going 2 up, is the weight of expectation getting to them?
i’m going to digress a bit fellas. but is it just me who thinks we need a new ‘shooting’ coach (if there is a such a position?)? all our goals off late have been from an angle and distance where the opportunity to score has been painstakingly created and the probability of scoring has had better odds. we are shorn of the magic that the likes of cantona, robson, hughes, sharpe, cole, yorke, ole and even giggsy and scholes in their time used to possess as a natural ability.
as things stand we depend on our wingers and midfielders to push the ball in the box till someone does something clever or ballsy and smashes it past the keeper. whatever happened to just out the box belters which were a common happenstance? and what the hell happened to free kicks??? do we have to yearn for ron everytime we get a juicy one outside the box and we see rooney n giggs hesitatingly make their way around the ball?
seriously! teams like fulham or tottenham are getting better quality goals in than we are. sure we are more consistent than them but then that’s pure comparison and United are NOT grounded on comparative merits. we set the fucking standards for fuck’s sake. what happened there? it should be us getting glorious 5-0 results and making the rounds of goals of the week for every tv network. am i in a fantasy world? is there no reprieve?
I am watching the 01-02 CL semifinal against Bayer right now. It’s a bit strange to see Berba playing for the german side. He should have played for us much earlier.
I think it’s just minor comfort trying to tell Liverpool players celebrating like it was a cup final. They were written off by every conceivable media outlet. Benitez was kicked at every given chance — sometimes deservedly, sometimes over the top. So when the players get backed into a corner and prove the critics wrong I think they are entitled every bit of celebration they do. Fair play to them. We were rubbish. I can’t blame the referee for it today, despite some dodgy decisions.
Refree was shit today….. i wonder whether any one will talk about it tomorrow… we didn’t play well hopefully this defeat will kick start our season.
@Corea:
I am not too sure if we can win the Premier League either. And i felt like that before today’s game. But i realize that the team this season is in a transitional period. We are trying to play a different system and players don’t get used to that overnight. I am hopeful that we will get better as the season wears on. Plus, it will be a bonus to have Hargo and Fletch in these games from now on…
Simple we had 11 players and the ref was Liverpool’s 12th man
still not sinkin in yet,im pure fuckin sick again. its so simple to see and yet saf and every1 has cotton wool on their eyes, screamin at the telly all fuckin afternoon GET TIGHT GET TIGHT , why the fuck wait for sum1 to receive the ball then move 20yds over to em?please why??
theyr supposed to be pros man, mark your man when we dont have the ball, not rocket science is it
and with the pace of fuckin fairy ladyboy why wernt rio n vidic talkin and sayin right,one of us on him like glue and the other always 4or5 yds behind.
same as every rebound or bad pass seemed to land to red everytime,
to be honest we didnt deserve a draw but caraga shud av red coz owen probably score from there, not to mention our pen shouts,
well im off now,feel like sumones died or somet me, not cumbum torres cause id be fukin partying for days.
all underperformed today-end of
Love this blog, just what I´ve been looking for regarding ManU!
Picking up on the comments earlier about our midfield… I reckon we do have a very good midfield – what the scousers would give (or steal?) for the creativity we have in the shape of Carrick’s passing, Giggs and Ando’s running with the ball, etc… it’s just that we’re blatantly missing that bit of steel, and we have been for over a season now…
yes the referee was poor today, but then we cant blame him for the result, we were poor, fletcher’s and hargreaves’ absences were felt, snd none of the team could raise their game (with the exception of VDS and maybe valencia) still as you say we’re still 4 points clear of the vermin, and im not worried about them catching us for the league, the real test will come away at chelsea next month, a game against genuine title contenders!
Our Midfield was simply poor..couldnt get a shot at their goal properly…..and i think Berbatov needed a rest…after running his socks off against CSKA in the midweek i thought Fergie’s gonna give him a one month rest….;-)
Nani looked dangerous when he came on…Valencia played well….and i think its time to say Bye bye Carrick..thanks for the memory….seems to me he just doesnt have what it takes to become a regular United player…sorry…
And lastly i think we need a PROLIFIC GOALSCORER….we are relying too much on Rooney for goals….and the rests will never get the goals that are needed…
Come on Fergie..buy a striker….
To be honest, you cant blame the referee.
The team selecion was wrong from the start, you cant play Giggs, Scholes and Carrick together in a big game, we just dont have that energy and battler in the middle, that was the main difference.
Berbatov should never have been taken off, he was our only outlet up front and probably our best player. Ronney gave very little and should have been the man to give way.
Evra was beaten every time in the first half down that side and his booking didnt help and for all the good defensive work O’Shea put in, he gave the ball straight to a Liverpool shirt.
At half time, Evra should have made way for Neville, with O’Shea dropping to left back.
Ferdinand and Vidic cant cope with torres, hes simply to good for them. Give Torres that space to run into and he will make you pay, far to often they allowed that to happen. They also struggled to win the balls in tha air against both Torres and Kuyt.
For all the pulling Carragher gave on Owen to bring him down, Owen was pulling as well. Very clever by Carragher as he knew exactly what he was doing, where Owen was and where the ref was, but yes he was the last man and you can argue against a sending off, but defenders were getting accross to cover.
In all assessement we still lack something, we still havent got that full make up and we havent been playing that great, Spurs away aside I stuggle to see a comprehensive performance.
Chelsea away is the key game now and we musnt loos it.
We need to start with Anderson as he brings that energy and drive, who plays alongside him and who plays on the left is also key.
@ Costas
look at the other teams. we have the players, we have history, we have the manager, we have experience. we are modest and there is only one way to play football from now on – to play a better king of game.
Owen – first year, Valencia – first year, Berba – the second full year with the full pre-season. I can’t see it the other way around.
@ Red Ranter
a fair point, mate.
we were a f****** disgrace today. fergie needs to bring in some new faces who can actually play football
@ Toecutter: We have a prolific striker and his name is Michael Owen. He needs to be given more starts or at the bery least more than 20 minutes! Only Shearer and Henry have a better goal per games ratio in prem history than Owen, that sounds prolific to me! Every time Owen has played has all ways got a chance for himself with his fantastic movement. He has showed time and time again through out his career he’s a big game player. When he came on and scored the winner in the style he did against City it showed his class.
Ffs! Didn’t watch the match or listen to the radio(alan green!) , so can anybody tell me would Owen have scored if he wasn’t fouled by carragher? How was torres today?, bet diving and mouthing off as usual! Got to face ABU’S at work tomorrow need some ammo. Going to the match on tuesday and being from and working in Barnsley, please god let us win!
costas- wot do you mean you think we wont win the league? who will like??
league winners is utd 4 in a row, you obviosly have no faith,bonny fan
SAF should have started Anderson. There was no steel in the middle and Carrick was amazingly awful 2day. All the same we will never die. Hoping for a better performance against Blackburn.
I am United fan out of Calcutta – India, waited for the whole week for this day to come. Now I dont want to turn upto work on Monday.United was disappointing to say the least. Frankly we were not desperate enough. A big game requires all players to raise their games. We did not. Thank God for VDS, he was the only bright spot.
Sorry to disagree with Scot, the ref sucks, but we played poorly. We did not deserve to win…
Having said that, United we stand. We are known by the spirit in our hearts.
We will come back…
The worst part is no one in my family shares my passion for United, hence feeling a bit lonely. Will see a recording of the 99′ final…
GLORY GLORY MAN UNITED…
to right garry…. Michael Owen needs to play and start more games… most important that United bounce back after this game… a loss can be hard to take but hopefully this will be another kick up the arse that the 10 outfield players need…. HARGREVES would of ruled that game….
Why doesn’t Fergie give Tosic a chance on the left, or at least have him on the bench instead of Wellbeck. He scored a good goal for the reserves the other day and had a very good game by all accounts, he can also take a decent free kick. Giggs and Scholes shouldn’t both be starting in games, I don’t like it when Giggsy is captain either, Legend that he is, his captaincy record isn’t that great.
@MarkTheDevil It looked like owen was straight thru just to the left hand side of the box, defendeds wouldnt have caught him but were close enough to put doubt in the refs mind about the red.. i believe with all my heart and soul that yes he would have scored.
I personally was raoring throughout the game for ando to come on, i think his flair and determined attitude could have swung it in our favour
wish people would stop making the referee excuse, just take defeat like men. We didn’t play well against an average team so we didn’t deserve to get anything from the game..
for some reason this season we have looked poor against arsenal and liverpool, which is a shame
thedevil85-Costas is by no means a fairweather fan,but I do think he is wrong in saying that we won’t win the league.
Costa,I think we will win the league,with a couple games to spare as well.
“There should be no conceit in victory,and no disgrace in defeat.”-Sir Matt.
We would do well to remember this.
Tosic? You having a laugh. I watched the reserves the other night and he was shocking, yes he scored, but his overall game was poor and thats at a level thats not even Conference standard.
Will be interesting to see if he plays Tuesday at Barnsley.
The chelsea away game is the key to United, we need to not loose it.
Come January, Hargreaves will be back, Obertan will have had some games and we might bring someone in.
scott , i love ur optimism.. but i feel you you have missed talking about the actual game..
For me, Scholes and Carrick – decent passers, but playing these two at an away game vs Masherano and Lucas was a bad idea.. okay, masherano and lucas aren’t great passers of the ball, but they work hard and press you when you have the ball.. the likes of Scholes and Carrick play well, when they have time on the ball etc, at Old trafford it would be ideal.. I feel we missed the steel in midfield without Fletcher, and would’ve prefered Andersons energy over Scholes. Scholes hit few backward passers, but really couldn’t take the game to Liverpool. No-one took the midfield by the scruff of the neck, Valencia frustrated me again, too one sided, i feel he has the pace, but needs to learn to use and trust his left foot abit more maybe?
It was also clear that Rooney was half-fit, didn’t look the same, but still was dangerous at some points..
I’m really dissapointed, but we’ve been there before, and done it. We will always bounce back, starting with Blackburn next week.
BERBATOV WAS A FUCKIN DISGRACE…ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!
@bigshowfardy: cheers mate.
OK – Red card that should have been and a possible penalty claim.
Still all that tries to mask is the performance.
Yeah an equiliser would have shut the scousers up and be quite amusing
The manner of THAT performance is not good enough and is creeping into a lot of our bigger games lately (Barca, Arsenal, Liverpool..)
The fact is that we cant buy goals this season as our attack is not potent or creative enough. This means that as this season when our defense creaks it is more critical. This isnt new this season as the 13 (1-0′s) last season could have so easily gone the other way.
The UTD way is cavalier, entertaining – we’ll score more than you not the boring crappy 1-0′s that we used to slate arsenal for.
UTD have actually played much better attcking wise with berbatov and owen in the last two. Maybe its time to put rooney behind the front two?!?!?
it’s amazing how much fletcher’s stock rises so much faster (and rightly so) when he doesn’t play!
it’s not the time to start going on about taking apart the squad. we’ve just got to get on with it and look to the carling cup on tuesday to look at our future players. let’s hope obertan shows something.
still can’t understand nani taking the free kick over rooney or giggs even if the angle favored his foot, he should be lower in that pecking order. hargreaves would’ve taken that one if he were fit i think.
refs were rubbish- but that’s obviously no excuse.
no trophies were handed out today, 3 points dropped, only october, but this truly was a banana peel of game against a wounded liverpool side which dived and fouled there way to a win over a poor united side.
fuck it, gotta move on!
@tufty said
I just think Tosic should be given some playing time in the prem, how else will we know if he’s got what it takes. He seems to do well at international level. If Wellbeck can get a place on the bench (who won’t make it at Utd imho) why not Tosic? Hopefully he will play somepart on Tuesday night.
We had about 20 minutes to get back into the game after their goal, we didn’t. Why is everyone saying ‘we have a shit midfield’ ‘we should be dipping into the market’? We lost because of bad tactics. Ando should’ve started instead of scholes, ando is the current fit ballwinner behind fletcher. Nani should have started at left wing instead, giving giggs the central role. Rooney should NOT have started, he wasn’t fully fit and had his child’s birth on his mind. We all know how well the Owen-Berbatov partnership is, so why did fergie not start Owen, and more baffling why did he sub Berbatov instead of Rooney, I don’t know.
We can’t blame the ref, even though the majority of his goddamn decisions were beyond fucking belief kooky. They played better than us. Our defence looked shaky, we have conceded far too many goals this season, what happened to the world class defence of last season?
Only comforting thing is, we’re only 2 points behind chelsea, and 4 points clear of the dippers. Let them think they’re back in the title race, the way they celebrated shows just how much they love beating us. That feeling for them betters winning a trophy, and I would take another defeat at OT only for us to win No.19.
@Boogeyman
I am never that optimistic as a fan. You know it. I always wait until the turn of the year to see what odds Man United have of winning the league. So, even though we have started the campaign pretty well in terms of results, i don’t see our potential as champions yet. I have seen United start other campaigns on fire and then bottle it. None of the other teams have impressed me either, but it’s tough to say how the league will pan out in May. And given the changes the team has undergone this summer, it’s hard to say what impact they will have. If the team starts improving as the season goes by, then i will retract. But i won’t crown United as champions from the 10th game of the season.
For fucks sake everybody relax.
Players lacked urgency and hunger and gifted the game to the scousers. It happens now and then.
We will still win the league because all the other teams are so shite.
Owen looks like first team choice second part of the season mark my words.
@jamiekey1975. here here mate, Berba is class but fu**ing lazy and looks like he is being forced to play football when he would rather be doing something else…..Veron,Forlan, and now berbatov….tough result and its gonna leave a crap taste in the mouth all season long….
Can anyone tell me whats happening with KIKO?
It is seriously upsetting to have been beaten by the scousers for a 3rd consecutive time! Lets be honest, we haven’t kicked into gear yet and have only shown flashes this season of what we might be capable of. But why do we have to save our really poor performances for the scousers? Fletcher would have made a real difference today, but I’m suprised Anderson didn’t get the nod. Scholesy is my all time favourite
United player, but he needed someone like Anderson next to him today, not Carrick! and I’ve said it before, I love them both but I don’t think we can afford the luxuary of playing both Scholes and Giggs in the same team for the big games, especially without a Fletcher or Anderson to make up the running. As soon as I heard the midfield line up I was worried. Can’t agree with the Berbatov slagging! Yes he was poor today, but who wasn’t?! He has been one of our better players this season and is world class. On the referee Shocking decision, but how much do you want to bet the press don’t jump on Liverpool’s back tomorrow saying they get all the decisions at home! Same as nobody mentioned the 7 minutes they were given to retrieve the beachball assisted fuck up they were given….! Hargreaves, come on in son!
Costa,I know what you’re like.You and Suhayl are not exactly positive,but you don’t slate the players.Keep the faith in our lads.
Teams lose games but it is the manner of the defeat that counts. We were aweful today. No bite no spirit can’t pass can’t defend no attack, and this is not the first time this season. Imagine if we were playing Arsenal with the way they attack – I shudder to think how many we would lose by ( I know we beat them earlier but it needed an own goal). What was Ferdinand doing not getting close to Torres? Seems both he and Vidic are scared stiff of him. Midfield was terrible. Forwards were non existent.
I hope this is a blip but with Chelsea soon – well lets not go there.
Come on Fergie be the manager we know and love and give the team a great big kick you know where. If there is no improvement then get rid and get players in who will die for the team
Will we win the league – yes we will but it will take a better display than this every week to make it number 19
Sorry for being all gloom and doom but this is not the Utd we know and love
You say what i want to said. Agree with scott.
I hate two things…
1. When we play bad, than we finding excuses..reffere
2. When we playing tactics, games, ches…instead that we play football..
We didnt play well, they too..but they played little better than us…so they deserved to win…
I dont like Berbatov and i can t help myself…
so unfair my eyes bulged when i saw owen trough and then i saw that cunt carragher bring him down just 20 meters away from me we all shouted and the ref gives a yellow
WHAT THE FUCK
we all were angry,andrew (my mate) was going to run and hit the ref i stopped him though
then it really hurt me when i saw ngog score.if it wasn’t for ladyboy twat torres diving we would have won
fuck liverpool i hate them.
evra was shit today..ferdinand played like a kid..carrick bolocks at the link up play..dont know why..instead of looking to pass ahead..he passes to some other player and goes forward himself.. if not for vida and vds today..we would’ve lost 4 or 5 nil….rooney had an off day again..becoming regular..valencia always goes to the right of the player..when tying to pass.. any kid can defend him if he knows that..nani and owen had too little time to make an impact..stop blaming the ref..thats cowardly..berba got no look in absolutely..god help us…
Im sure Ferdinands defending for the Torres goal was down to him creating a magazine, right?!
And blaming the result at the feet of the referee is wrong. We were crap for the whole 90, no movement, no drive, no passion. We didn’t deserve a point, we didn’t get one
meh i went on my footy game and i hammered liverpool 30-1
i felt really really better
Another thing I want to say is, I think Fergie is not being harsh enough on the players, they need a right bollocking from him at HT everytime we fuck up, that’s the only way they’ll get back to their senses and work their asses off until the win is sealed.
It’s not all doom and gloom guys. Them winning doesn’t mean they’ll win the league, we’re the only team that have a strong in depth squad capable of winning the league. Even the bitters have a more decent chance of coming second than the cheating diving dippers. We’ll only hit top gear once we get Fletcher and Hargo fit and our defence sorting itself out. Mark my words, we’ll be winning games after games when we have them playing in midfield. They are the answer to our inconsistency in midfield.
Berba is as only as good as the players around him! I hate people being one-sided & looking for a scapegoat! they were ALL poor! Only VDS played his game! That save from Aurelio. & Valeencia hitting the bar. NOUT apart from that!
Have to agree with Tufty & others that the selection was not moblie enough! I would have played anderson in there or Nani from the start!
We posed no threat and couldn’t gain a yard even if we had reebok pumps on!
Hope for a reaction against misfiring Blackburn!
ps. Fergie should talk to Berba about the whinging before we have another Ronnie on our hands!
Scott ur talking utter shite about Lucas which challenge u saying he should be booked for? He did exactly the same job for them today as fletch did against arsenal (a job which he was praised for)!
The one thing I had a problem with today 3 defenders on a 7 man bench absolutly pointless! Give macheda and welbeck a chance!!
Don’t normally call individuals but everyone on here thinks it’s ok to constantly criticise carrick berba nani, yet there’s no mention of just how shite Rooney has been since the spurs game! Brilliant for 6 games fucking appaling for 6 games not good enough for somebody who’s supposed to be our top player!
@theboogeyman
I believe in our lads. I had some reservations with our transfer policy this past summer, but i will never slam our current bunch. I just hope they realized that they let the fans, the manager but mostly themselves down today. They don’t deserve to lose 3 consecutive games to Liverpool!
@SteRDLK
brilliant mate..it pains to see reina..yawning away to glory..in a match that we were supposed to dominate..benayoun ate evra’s ass up..kuyt could’ve scored in the chance that he got after missing evra but he chose to pass..shameful effort today..
play carrick, scholes, o’shea and giggs against a team that will pressure players with the ball = we lose. it’s that simple.
if we’d played anderson and fletcher in the middle it would’ve been a completely different tale.
this was a good result in all – fergie needs to learn the lesson above (though why he hasn’t already is a mystery) and liverpool will miss mascherano for some games now – which they will lose or draw without him in their team.
Macheda is GOD.. I don’t think we would have scored a goal in 120mins the way we played, even if there was a red card. Torres scored a good goal by outclassing our defenders, despite his diving. Whereas our forwards were nowhere to be seen for most of the game, until Owen came on
stop standing up for the team Scott!! they were useless today..love to see the stats of the game..
gutted but 2-2 for arsenal and shity. we’ll bounce back.
goodnight to all of you. will have to go to work tomorrow but i don’t have much choice.
cmon guys..what did you expect?? go to anfield and boss the game?? blow them out of the water?? they were always gona be up for this more than we were.. they had so much riding on the one game.. we didnt! too be honest i thought the tactics were good..counter liverpools work ethic by keeping the ball with scholes and carrick in midfield.. apart from the one time he lost the ball and they nearly scored, i thought scholes was very good in the first and his long balls to valencia started off most of our attacks..carrick was also neat and tidy on the ball and its good to see his confidence coming back! that being said i think bolton are going to suffer next week..
all in all i think this was always going to be a tough game with liverpool creating the majority of the chances and had it not been for valencias shot a couple of inches too high or carraghers rugby tackle on owen, we might have taken something from this game and all the pessimists wouldnt be here spouting rubbish as usual..
UNITED TILL I DIE
erm Fze123, I can think of a certain blue lot that have an equal squad if not better?
2 facts:
1) We WILL bounce back!!
2) This loss is bad karma 4 Arsenal @ home
3) Karma exists
*blackburn not bolton!
@Park’s Lab, who, exactly?
@Corea.Good to see these 2 lose points. Because if they had won their games in hand they would have went above us. Goodnight to you.
@SimSima69
You are right. Most of our wins at Anfield haven’t been about bossing the game. They are mostly games where we sit back a bit and wait for our big break. That’s what happened in 06-07 and 07-08. But there was a difference in those 2 1-0 wins. In the first one, we played with today’s midfield duo and they had us on the ropes for most of the game. In 07-08, we played with Hargo and Ando in the centre and restricted them to 0 chances. I really believe that today it would have been a different story if we had Fletch or Hargo or Ando from that season.
please please wake up and smell the coffee..it was A BULLSHIT performance..no way we would’ve won today..
liverpool had to win this game, the pressure on them was tremendous and it was meant to be….the good news is that both arsenal and city drew when they should have won, so we still have a good chance. at least we were not leading 2-0 and gave the game away like those two.
the big game is going to be chelsea away in 2 weeks. that will really define our season.
fulham looks good and play liverpool at home next! Chelsea play a hot Bolton side away as well….arsenal can knock liverpool out of the carling cup on wednesday at home….
Funny seeing all those scousers on SKY believing that they still have a chance winning the Premiership. As I said when they beat us at OT last year, they should enjoy it until their next defeat, as it will be the highlight of their season as it was last season.
im just saying we need a little realism on this blog..i think we missed fletcher today but what can we do about it now? let the dippers celebrate their cup final..im off to play some fifa..il feel better when i thrash someone with united
I don’t know which end to blame for our concessions our midfield shines at times but whether through SAF’s pairings or lack of personal involvement they fall apart when it matters. The defence is god awful at times with vidic’s recent form and particularly Rio who certainly needs time with the reserves to show him as someone said truly he isn’t irreplaceable. Evans could use some time on the pitch and wes could be an excellent fill in, we have a great a squad but it’s almost as if they’re falling apart. Fletcher we miss you.
Agree with united.george
And if chelsea can put 5 past blackburn, then I expect the same 5-0 win against blackburn next week. We have to get back to winning ways as soon as possible.
We can blame the referee all day long, but the sad truth is that five or six of our players didn’t turn up.
Yes, Marriner was diabolical – how Lucas and Carragher stayed on the pitch is anyone’s guess.
But Rooney (and yes, I know it was his first game back for a while) was very quiet, Scholes made Gerrard look average, Giggs was poor, Carrick awful, Valencia, poor and Berbatov – well it’s those performances that have fans on his back most of the time – there have been just too many of them – he was poor.
As wonderfully technically gifted a player he is, you just wonder if he’s up for battles like today, but today he wasn’t on his own.
It was the same as last season, but as Gary Neville said, I’d take a defeat if it meant us winning the league – and let’s face it, with Vidic getting sent off again, the omens are looking good!
All joking aside, it was a terrible performance, and a waist of an early afternoon.
Can’t wait til Hargreaves is back fit and playing regularly either, he and Anderson would be my first choice central pairing all day long – Scholes isn’t ever going to be able to do what he used to now, and God knows what has happened to Michael Carrick.
Scott, love the article…. its jus what a person of your reach and standing in united cirlces needs to do…. it wouldve been awesome if fergie had a free hand post match but a tight leash aint half of it i guess……..
Well, the match was ours to take by the scruff of the neck from the go…. 5 in midfield and 2 “hard working” DMs for em, first 5-8 mins, them scousers were scared shitless, …. but unfortunately we lacked any urgency and didnt take the game to them despite the commendable 4-4-2 we put on……. once they realised we werent in it for the kill, they hounded us in all corners of that shit hole they call a stadium…….
Benayoun, i must admit with a heavy heart is one heck of a footballer(not only on tonights evidence)…..
Almost any 11 of our players wouldve won it for us today, but our approach from the go lost us the game honestly…..
“A truly woeful decision which cost us all the points today.” I disagree Scott. stop complaining to anything else than our poor performance. I think we need to face it. It was the poor performance. very poor. ref was clearly wrong many times, to be honest, against both teams (sure, more occasions against us), but that was not the case today. let`s admit sometimes that we don`t play well. we have chelsea away in couple of weeks and I am really concerned what will the performance and result be like
well this was a fucked up way of ending a sunday afternoon…
one thing is clear though – liverpool is a 1 person team. they depend on torres for everything, without him they are pathetic. too bad he played today…
this game shows more clearly then ever that we have some things that we need to resolve. even if we’ve started well this season, there are still some issues that are worrying. we do not have any consistent striker to fall back on. a striker that will deliver 20-25 goals a season (like nistelrooy). rooney is off pace at the moment. berba (even though he looked as if he was trying a bit more than previously…) is not giving his pricetag worth. owen should get more chances, but hey let’s face it, he won’t produce 20 goals… who else is do we have? we really need to invest in a strong striker in january.
the midfield was really missing fletcher today. we need more energy and strength here. to control the games more than we do at the moment.
scholes had a terrible game. his passing was awful. and i almost lost it when nani came on. for christ sake.
even what used to be our strongest part in previous campaigns, the defence, is looking a bit shaky. rio is really in a slump. get evans in instead. we have allready conceded 11 goals in 10 games. good to have edwin back though. he can’t be blamed for the goals today. he needs help from the defenders.
the thing that bugs me the most is that we didn’t seem to want to win as much as the liverpool players. how is that?!?!? shouldn’t this be a game that we wanted to win? at all cost??? it was like the cl final again…
i know that we will bounce back. but it still hurts when the game turns out like this. fuckin hate it! so let us destroy barnsley, blackburn and then cska moscow in the next games, and get the spirit back into the team before the chelsea game.
and to costas, we will win the league. it’s in our blood!
gonna say something that goes against most of the fake whiners and crying baby fans who feel they united owe them 4-0 every week,
mostly if not all players played pretty decently. Liverpool just played with a stronger team unit with much more hunger for the ball, pressing and closing down at every instance. United played alot of long balls to get forward and only until 30 mins had gone that they started to get passes going around, had 5-10 min spell of that in first half and some in the 2nd.
The best thing you have to do is remember that you are always learning about your team, the components are ever evolving and players are changing, on another day Ando plays along side fletch and we talk about how great a game Rooney has with the feed he’d be getting, or how for all the game Torres was in the defenders pocket, or as Scott rightly says how owen scores the late minute equaliser if carragher wasn’t playing rugby, etc. it’s just football, its not ever gonna be winner takes it all . Live and learn, not live and complain
I thought Vidic had a great game. He was wining all of his headers and firmly kept Torres (who by the way went down like a house of cards everytime he was touched) in his pocket for most of the match.
We weren’t that great as a team. The Scholes/Carrick partnership in midfield just didn’t cut it. With Fletcher and Park out we should have played Anderson and Giggs in the centre. Also, how come Lucas didn’t pick up a yellow card at all, he had well over 5 fouls, yet Evra got a yellow for two nothing fouls.
Well thats the scums Cup Final for this year, it’s all they’ll be getting this year anyway. Time to concentrate on the next game and look forward to Chelski.
Agree with the Neville for Evra switch and moving O’Shea to the left. Evra was afraid to get a red card the rest of the game, and it showed—totally unfair to give him a yellow for his first tackle @ 3–5 minutes gone by (for a Torres dive). Neville has combined well with Valencia lately, and it might have made a big difference. Berba was way off today—no heart. SAF should not have played Rooney after two weeks away—or at least not the full 90. I was expecting to see Owen @ 45 or 60. 15–20 minutes was just not enough today. The whole team was off today. They did not win one split ball in the middle. Didn’t UTD buy a striker called Diouf from Molde who may come in January? It will be interesting to see him play. No worries about the loss, although it does suck to loose to those bastards. It did happen last year, however, and UTD still won the PL. More worried about Chelsea and Arsenal (who drew to WHU today). Those are the real threats this season, not Liverpool. I don’t know if Liverpool have won a game without having Mascherano on the pitch and he’ll be out for a couple….
united lose, morrissey collapses onstage….not a good weekend for manchester:)
tevez was crap today for city, could not score at all….it reminded me of last season for us, does all these great things but cannot put the ball into the back of the net. So happy that shitty could not get a win today.
also good news for us is that African Cup this year which means, Drogba, Essien, Mikel and Kalou will be gone for a few weeks at a key time in the season. Chelsea will start to stutter around Xmas, as they usually do.
happy to see Saha doing well…6 goals this season.
Rooney+Berba, this fatherhood thing better not distract you too much! are you not getting enough rest?
We REALLY miss Fletcher in a game like this and the money Fergie has needs to be spent in January on buying a player of similar qualities to Fletcher – OK – Hargreaves is that man but if he is not back and in form we will struggle in the big game battles.
I AM GUTTED.
robbed, should of been 1-1 in the last couple of mins im sure owen wouldof put it away….
agree with read carefully, when i saw flecth werent playing i werent very confident
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5652139,00.html
lol fergie dont give a fuck does he
they out battled us in midfield. Scholes is class and one of my favourite ever players but when its a high tempo battle in midfield with no time to put his foot on the ball, its not a game for him. That gap in midfield cost us. All these berbatov haters talkin shit again. He and rooney had no service so you can’t expect miracles, he did well with what he had. Centre backs looked shakey but that will get better with match fitness. Only good thing out of today is valencia’s improving displays, considering he had no support from o’shea and had 2 full backs against him, he did well. Was a bad day but still only 2 points behind chelsea. Fuckin gutted but no need to panic.
Agree .. Ref was Mad! But on the long run .. it evens out .. some day some ref is gonna be favourable to u .. AND utd is gonna win ..
The fact is even tho people are saying that utd is playing well without ronaldo .. is it really??
They jus came away by a whisker against arsenal ..
Man city was close .. and not having adebayor only helped u guys ..
Then u lost to burnley .. drew with sunderland .. lost again to pool .. !!
ref apart .. Utds performance was hapless as compared to pools ..
seriously even tho u guys are playing well .. u have a lot of work to do without ronaldo in ur squad!
Gaffe…and your team is?
@stretford972- spot on, gutted myself, its only october!
To be fair lads we did not turn up so the refs performance should not be the number one issue. Yes he was bad but we were second to everything so i feel to blame the ref is to comfort our poor performance. Yous may disagree but thats just my opinion.
I’ve seen a share of Liverpool fans admitting to the referees inadequacies. It’s reassuring to know that it isn’t all blind rage from United fans.
It’s unbelievably difficult to watch your team submit to one of your bitterest rivals, it’s even more so to come to terms with having to contend against an official as well.
In realation to the referee, one thing that persistently annoyed me today was Torres winning so many free-kicks. My problem isn’t him playing for them – lots of players do it. But why haven’t we caught on by now? Getting players to carelessly commit is a part of his game. A lot of the time he isn’t in dangerous positions, yet we readily offered him chances to earn the free-kicks. We give him too much respect. Really frustrating.
Someone’s already picked it up about Valencia not using his left foot, but for me the boy needs to start running. Use your pace for crying out loud, take people on, boy.
I’m not singling him out as everyone was poor but RUN!
Here’s to the BBurn game
We should’ve had seven penalties.
I don’t like our new kit.
If you didn’t go toosvow it’s cause you weren’t fit if you playe today it showed you weren’t fit bit evra Rooney and giggs did what they could half time nil all red was a fucking disgrace and if united won 2nil in the second I’d still walk away with that. How fergies number1 fan stayed on I’ll never know but 2 wind in a row we’ll be back top with Fletcher and hargo back
I dont think we can have too many complaints really,apart from some baffling refereeing mistakes.
They created many more chances than us and although we played pretty well in the last 20 mins I think they deserved the win.
But one bit of comfort is they beat us last year but still won fuck all.
Hope its the same this year round and i’d take them beating us twice and still winning the league,no problem.
you had a few drinks Tiny tears??
Lol.
LET THE DIPPERS HAVE THEIR DAY HE CELEBRATIONS AT THE END OF THE MATCH SHOWED HOW MUCH THIS MEANT TO THEM POOR REFEREE AND TO ADD TO THAT WE WERENT FANTASTIC OUR FORM HAS NOT BEEN BRILLIANT BE EH WHEN IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE SEASON HAS IT EVER BEEN GOOD IM SURE WE WILL BE STRONGER FOR THE DEFEAT BUT THAT DOESNT TAKE THE HURT AWAY
What might take the hurt away a bit is some unemotional analysis!
We’re 4 points ahead of Liverpool after 10 games. Who here doesn’t think it will be more than that after 20? While we particularly hate losing to Citeh or the Dippers in the end of the day it’s no different to losing to Burnley or Wolves because are only real title rival is Chelski. Those two matches are the “six pointers” so if we had the choice to get a point at Anfield or one at the Bridge, I know which point Fergie would prefer.
Let’s hope this loss gets the sort of reaction that will see us raise our game in two weeks time.
Oh my days have some class about ya. We are United after all.
Blaming the referee is poor. If we wanna know why we lost the game look no further than the United players. We were thouroughly beaten today.
No United player bar Van Der Sar can claim they were any good today.
The midfield was over run and didn’t hold up the ball to take pressure off the defence and lacked the invention to create chances for the strikers.
The midsield is good. But not brilliant. It was poor against Barcelona, Arsenal, and again Liverpool. We can talk about Fletcher and Hargo like they will be our saviours and all the answers to all the problems we have. But where do the goals come from in midfield? We don’t have a Lampard or Gerrard to contributegoals or invention. I see that as a problem.
At the very top level I think we are found wanting in midfield.
We must also accept that Torres is World Class. He shrugged off Rio like he wasn’t there. Rio is on the decline at the moment and needs to do something to reach the high levels he set’s himself.
I’d have him over Berbatov any day of the week. That might be contraversial but it’s true. I’m not saying that Berba is not class. I just question whether we actually needed him.
Carragher should not have been sent off. Owen was running away from goal and even if he was not brought down their were 2 bin dippers to the right for Owen to beat. This may have been inconsitant with the decision made last season at Old Trafford but that is just the way the cookie crumbles.
Carrick was clattered but if it had been a penalty it would have been harsh. We would have thought the same if it was in our own penalty area.
I couldn’t care less if United got beaten home and away in the Premiership for the next 10 years if it meant United won the title for the next 10 years.
Remember last season? “You won 4-1 but won fcuk all!” chant?
Have a bit of class. We were well beaten today. The ref made a few dodgy decisions. But that is like Rafa blaming the beachball for the Sunderland loss. We can’t be blaming the ref for our loss today.
We seemed to lose it on a physical, athletic level – older, slower and weaker than the opposition.
Didn’t SAF say at the beginning of the season that Giggs’s days of sprinting past fullbacks were behind him, that the right place to deploy him these days was in the middle ? So why did he get the winger role today of all days, and why was Scholes out there at all, this was never going to be the occasion for his age-restricted game. It’s bad enough that injury robbed us of Fletcher, did we have to compound the situation with a plain wrong team selection ?
And to be fair to Foster – we all thought he was to blame for Ferdinand and Vidic having such shaky starts to the season – that’s that theory out the window.
I know you’re not supposed to say it here, but I’m going to: the magic was sold to Madrid. It’s time to splash the cash if we want to compete. A double raid on Valencia: Villa and Silva please.
look on the bright side guys,
the FSW wont get fired,
I will take this loss ten billion times for the trophy.
come on lads! we can still win it all
On Valencia’s left foot: Not sure if the comments concern his shooting, crossing, passing, or dribbling? I have actually seen Valencia score a couple with his left foot at Wigan and he has also made a few attempts at United. (see, United v. Valencia CF highlights, among others). I do not think it’s a big deal at all. Moreover, it does not suit his style—to get the pace he does on the right wing, he needs to carry the ball with the outside of his right foot, like players are tought when they are five years old at any decent football academy. It’s a basic skill. Today, he did not have a lot of chances to use his pace because, like with Berba, the ball was just not coming from midfield. Valencia also had two or three players on him always (Insua, Aurelio, and Mascherano). I think SAF should have played Neville on the right, sending O’Shea to the left after Evra got the yellow. Neville has combined better with Valencia, giving him decent balls to use his pace in the last two games. I think the team lacked in spirit today. No split ball were won in midfield. This game is not a big deal. United will still go on to win. Chelsea and Arsenal are the threat. I don’t think Liverpool has any chance at all, even after winning today. United los the battle, but not the war.
Who’s blaming the ref? We were shit. It always sounds bitter in defeat to condemn a referee’s performance, but let’s be honest, he was dire.
We didn’t deserve anything, he was still shambolic. That’s how it is.
Fergie’s comments are spot on. We gave a sub par performance but so did the ref who wasn’t up to a game of this intensity.
You have to think that if Carragher had have been booked for any amount of earlier incidents. (like the over the ball tackle on Carrick that should have been a penalty) he might have thought twice about pulling Owen down and that would have been that!
These big games have turned on smaller things.
Points to consider after UTD’s woeful performance:
1) RB’s job is safe – for the season anyway. And as all intelligent football fans know he’ll never win the EPL.
2) G & Hicks must believe that RB has a good enough team to win the EPL. Therefore no funds in January.
3) ‘Pool will lose more games before Xmas. Definitely not a top 4 team perhaps finish 7th or 8th.
4) UTD will now go on an unbeaten run and be top of the table before Xmas.
Look at the’ top 4 teams’ and add City and Spurs. 6 teams in total. Each team plays the others twice, and these 10 games are the hardest of the season. UTD have played 4 of these games; ‘Pool have played 3; City 2; Chelsea 2; and Arsenal 2. On that score alone UTD must be favourites for the title. So I’m still optimistic that that Fergie can make it 4 on the trot.
On Villa & Silva coming to United: It would be an awful decision to bring them to United. They don’t have the pace or physique to play in the PL. Forlan, for example, is arguably a lot better than both of them (the top scorer in La Liga for many years in a row), but he did not really make an impact at United. Why? Because La Liga is a lesser league and he can shine there. Of course I have seen the wonderful things Villa and Silva do, but if you consider it’s against the worst teams in La Liga, it does not really mean anything. What did they accomplish when they visited Old Trafford? Absolutely nothing. Conversely, Ronaldo will definitely be the top scorer and best player in La Liga because he comes to the PL and he is playing at a completely different level in Spanish league—even more so than at the PL. I do think SAF plans on bringing Mame Biram Diouf from Molde in January. Diouf might have a huge impact.
I dontv havevtge shit united will bounch back
either way weve got to stand proud and we all no that ref was so biest why was lucas not booked after 4 fouls but evra was for 2
“The last time I saw our goalkeeper run the length of the pitch to celebrate with our players was when Giggsy scored our second against Wigan the season before last, wrapping up the title.”
VDS ran the length of the pitch to celebrate Rooney’s second goal (United’s 4th) against Tottenham in the Spring.
rdurango, spot on.
Sick of those people who call themselves utd fans, who after every defeat/draw shout out for villa and silva and the likes. They should thank god we have the players we have and the manager we have. Utterly deluded.
We weren’t good enough today but that was also one of the worst refereeing displays i’ve ever seen, torres tripped over his own feet twice and won 2 free kicks, berbatov was booked for skinning a scouse defender. And Carragher should have been sent off, Not a goalscoring opportunity?? Shocking!
Still…better to give away one game than a whole season, it gives them bin dippers something to cheer about in May
I havent really watched the whole game but saw highlights. I would just like to point out some things that has been mentioned before.
-Fergie needs to stop rotating the team. The players need to get used to each other. Yes. he wants to keep them ‘fresh’ but they are flipping athletes. Im sure they can manage.
- Wrong tactics. Playing Scholes, Carrick AND giggs. All together in midfield surely is a mistake. None of them can tackle. And remind me again who is meant to be defensive out of the lot?
-No goals from midfield. I know this may sound delusional but i really think that Berba would make an excellent attacking midfielder with Fletcher playing behind him. That allowing Rooney and Owen to play upfront?
- Ferdinand shouldnt be an automatic starter. What pisses me off the most is the fact that the first 11 will always return to the frst team after their injury even if they are not 100% fit. Evans is on better form than Rio yet the latter starts. why?
- Without fletcher we have no drive in the middle.
- Why the fuck arent the players playing like they want to win? We are playing our fucking rivals if that doesn’t inspire you to play better than im not sure what will. Its too many times that i just feel like united dont feel like scoring any more. We could be winning 5-0 etc but just score one and bottle the other chances.WHY?
- People need to STOP blaming Berba. Even Torres would like crap if he played ahead of THAT midfield today. So cut him so slack. He wasnt our worst player. And apart from VDS i dont think any of them player remotely well.
I still think we will win the title. But there are important issues that need to be taken care of.
We will never die.
Totally sick about todays result. The dirty dippers cup final for sure.
But to all you filthy vermin out there reading this blog (bit early maybe as you’ll still be out robbing)….You won the BATTLE today but you will NEVER win the WAR.
Sketch, you forgot to mention one point. Why the hell is Wes Brown not playing/starting even though he’s fully fit, and was wonderful against CSKA last week? How would’ve made the difference to our shaky defence today.
FSW did it twice and now he did it again. Same tactics of not letting our players any time on the ball by hurrying them. We kept on resorting to long plays which is just what FSW wanted.
We were spineless,shite and the midfield was pathetic. They gave into scousers hand by showing no intent and frequent back passing rsulting in aimless long balls. I won’t become paranoid in criticizing our players bur a few pointers .
- why ando not start is beyond me. He would have returned mascareno and Lucas the favour
- carrick has been a fucking disgrace since an year now.
- Oshea is out of his depths when trying to attack, he has no creativity, so starting with nevvile or brown would have been better.
Now coming to the biggest topic of Berbatov. I m a big fan of his but last two games he hasn’t been the player we all know. Bad first touches, mislaying passes and cribbing like a baby at others. He is not even able to hold on the ball which he is so awesome at.
Losing matches is a great teacher but seems we not learning at all from past mistakes at all. The fequency of such performances worries me, even the arsenal game we were lucky .
P.s. Scott and others how can you defend the pathetic performance by shifting the blame on the ref. Referee was a scouser was blatant but he cannot be blamed for all the defensive and mid field errors. We were lucky not to lose 4-0.
Whiteside10 @ 18:12 – dead right. The midfield of Carrick and Scholes was too passive. There was no drive from these two – that’s always the case when Carrick plays with Scholes; MC is just too deferential. The referee might have been one-eyed but that really doesn’t change the FACT that UTD got stuffed today in the engine room.
FuckRafa, indeed. He might be a twat but he’s a shrewd twat. He saw the Stoke match when they left Scholes alone in midfield and the little GingerNinja pushed back the years. So, FSW tried something different – his midfielders pushed hard at Scholes and Carrick, closed them down quickly and occasionally legally, and our two guys didn’t push back. To my eyes, that was the key to the game, that was why the ball didn’t come into the attacking zone from our midfielders.
The Torres goal has to be down to mis-communication between Vidic and Rio – they allowed themselves to be caught square and Torres is fast as a wet fart. The ball was played outside Vidic and Rio had too far to run to cut off NandoBoy. For him, it was meat-and-drink. That shouldn’t have happened – it was an elementary error.
Anything good to take away from the day ? Well, both Valencia and Nani continued to play well and are both getting more into the flow of the game. And, of course, Edwin showed why he should always be the number-one choice keeper unless (or until) SAF buys someone with a pedigree like Gianluigi Buffon. Otherwise, it was not a fun time for me on the couch.
Rdurango @ 21:26 – that’s amazing ! you actually witnessed Valencia using his left foot to strike a football. I’m admonished – because I’d never seen him do that.
denton davey:
Here is Valencia’s left footed goal at Wigan (@2:26), so you can see it for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIlxdbQwY4w&NR=1
I don’t have the time to track down all the shots he’s attempted with his left foot, but I have seen them (e.g., Manutd vs. Valencia CF highlights).
As stated, his pace down the right wing can only be accomplished by carrying the ball with the outside part of his right foot: It’s a basic skill, taught at all football academies I am aware of. So I am not really sure about what the big deal is about not using his left foot. Even so, I think the lad has adjusted well, considering it is 7th or 8th start with the team. I am sure he will have plenty of time to improve under SAF. I hope there is a lot more to come. And for those who were wondering, he can celebrate too.
Regardless, United lost the battle, but will win the war!
Good match report. Didn’t like the sour grapes about Torres and Ronaldo but apart from that, a sound write-up.
I’m just wondering why SAF is not having a go at the ref considering the amt of calls that went against us, even neutral fans can attest to this, we never do get any favourable response from the FA b4 so to H..L with them. Anyway the lads seem too comfortable wit the ball and not harrying their opponents like they were doing. l also think the subs were too late in coming, if we wanted to go for a win let’s go for it and if it’s a draw we wnat let’s keep to it. It seemed they were not in for either today. Anyway United will stand, loserpool will fall
I saw it coming from miles away.playing scholes in midfield had cost us the game,we were getting run over in the midfield by mescherano and lucas.Liverpool was going to score sooner or later.The thing is carrick and scholes dont work and valencia is just not good enough
“Ronaldo, we wish you well, and whilst I don’t miss his diving, it would have been nice to have someone willing to have a go from the edge of the box today”
You do have a diver in your squad, in fact he is your best player. Wayne Rooney.
Yes Carragher should have been sent off.
No, that does not guarantee Man U a point. Even if Carragher did get sent off Liverpool would have parked the bus.
No, Carragher’s challenge on Carrick was not a penalty. He got the ball, it revounded of Carrick and continued in the same direction. Just because it is a penalty at OT does not mean it is a penalty everywhere else. Same with the challenge on Giggs.
Lucas and Mascherano played Carrick and Scholes of the park the whole game, and Rooney and Berbatov were barely sighted. Man U lacked and do lack midfield creativity this season. This lack of creativity (Giggs aside) is no longer hidden by Ronaldo’s sublime talents.
Liverpool deserved to win. End of Story.
Not good to see MU lose to Liverpool…..
But this is football and referee should show red card for Carragher. Damn it.
@Gooner
Agree with most of the points there but rooney a diver?well what is Eduardo and Eboue then. strange that you are talking about it when 2 diving cunts are in your side
Also you forgot to mention
1. Berbatov Should not have been booked.
2.Lucas never got booked despite comitting 7 of Liverpools 20 fouls.
3. Vidic should not have got the 1st yellow card that he got.
4.Evras booking was ridiculous.
5. Also if you looked at the penalty Chelsea got against Blackburn you will realise that Nelsen won the ball there but also got a bit of Drogba.same was with Carraghers challenge.If that was a penalty this is too.there is no consistency in refreeing.
The Owen incident will grind me for a long time. Totally forgot about Vidic gerrard incident last season and thats just made it worse. That ref was a complete disgrace but at the end of the day we were second best particularly in the midfield and that cost us. We needed a Fletcher or Anderson to win us more posession, FUUUUCK!
Anyone who says this ref is a mickey mouser has forgotten Liverpool vs Stoke last year.
Well waking up this morning after a chance to calm down and clear the old head, still feels like shit!!
We played so badly, no passion in our play, they worked so much harder. Every loose ball they were first to, made even worse by the fact that we kept giving it away cheaply to them (giggs, scholes, evra amongst others!).
It felt like everytime we went near torres he would win a freekick even if he wasnt touched (evra’s booking, which was only his 2nd foul of the game even if it was a foul) And Berba got booked for his first ‘foul’ of the game, although im still not sure what the infringment was apart from taking it past the liverpool defenders..maybe thats not allowed at Anfield
It felt like game that didnt have a nasty tackle in it ended up with 2 boys off the pitch, because the ref was so card happy at times (at least to our players, how lucas didnt get booked, and mascherano didnt get booked until he did is beyond me!). Vidic’s first yellow was harsh, but he also possibly could have been booked for his cynical block on torres, so no real complaints there.
But how carragher stayed on the pitch is beyond me. Should have been a pen (+ yellow card). Then when he hauled down rooney after he spun him )+ yellow card) so he shouldnt have been on the pitch for the ref to bottle his red card decision, and he should definitely have had at least one yellow already so should have been off!
Watching MOTD last night (i dont know why i bother anymore!) all they could talk about was how poor vidic was and how outstanding carragher was, no mention of the fact carragher should have been sent off, barely mentioned the pen appeals. the general media is bad enough for its ABU bias but MOTD is getting to the point where it is ridiculous!
All that said we were awful and didnt deserve to win. BUT that has been the case before this season and we have won. WHY? Cos the ref got the right decisions in those games. If the ref had got everything right, we’d have had a pen, carragher wouldnt have seen out the match and we may well have gone on to win it, but Marriner bottle it almost as much as we did!
Hope we spank barnsley tomo night. Hopefully Obertan will play some part as it’ll be nice to see him agaist some slightly better opposition! and i’d give tosic a chance too, mixed reports about how he’s playing in the reserves, but he’s got a few goals and nobody manages to look really outstanding in the reserves. A couple of games in the first team and see how he gets on.
Also any else excited about the possiblity of Diouf in Jan and also Ljajic? I think Ljajic could play an important role even this season, got a good feeling about him!
sorry that turned into a bit of an essay!!
Anyone know a site where u can watch full game replays? or somewhere to download them?
I know that the majority of you will slate me for this but so far this season
They have been dreadful in most games. When was the last time they won away to 1 of the big 3 in the league? When was the last time rooney did anything against a big team? Carrick and ferdinand have terrible this season and i believe they should be sold. Evans should get a starting place ahead of ferdinand on current form. There is no creativity in midfield , fergie needs to splash the cash in jan. Or it be a disaster in 2010
Referee’s decision aside, the best team won. Even SAF says so. There was a time when referees decision did not matter. We were superior enough to beat 12 men with ten players on our side. We were a class above all. We still can be a class above all, no matter who plays for the other teams, by superior play. It is time we have a re-look at the team and shape it up to a side that is invincible.
@ aig alex is god
Points of Agreement
1) Berbatov should not have got a yellow card, he should have got a free kick as Insua blocked his run
2) Eboue is a diver. I never denied this, I just didn’t like the tone of the article as it implied that Man U have no divers in their team. Eduardo is also a diver, but he is only a one time diver – he doesnt have a history. Also you could argue (probably stretching the truth) that he was trying to avoid contact after his horrific injury
3) Lucas should have got a yellow card. However he didnt, just like Fletcher against Arsenal. Sometimes these things go your way.
4) I think that the Carrick penalty was not a penalty, but I admit it is open to interpretation. It could easily be conceded a penalty. I also think that because Carrick showed no sign of wanting a penalty, it was always going to be unlikely that the ref would point to the spot.
Points of Disagreement
1) Evra should have got a yellow card. He clearly contacted Torres (who did complete a fair few theatrical tumbles throughout the game), as he was running towards the 18 yard box. A clear yellow card.
2) Vidic did deserve his first yellow card. He consistently fouled Torres, going into his back and the ref was just trying to cut this out of the game so Torres could play football. Likewise, Lucas should have been booked so Man U could play football.
gooner
1.Evra should not have got a yellow.the fist foul given against him was torres clipping his own leg and going down.that way the foul for which he got yellow would have been his first warning and not a yellow card
2.I cant see any divers in our team now.Ronny was one of them but he was targetted so many times.Pogatez,taylor etc etc last year.And i repeat that penalty against Arsenal was not a dive.
3.Carragher also blocked rooney in the 2nd half when rooney would was ina good postion.he should have been booked for that and that way the owen foul would have been a red card .It was a straight red anyways.
4.Torres is a great player but sometimes looking at his theatrics he should play ladies football.looks like he has no strength at all.
I agree that Liverpool were better and deserved their win but the refree was not good either and was being influenced by the crowd.Had lucas been booked it would have curbed the silly fouls he kept on making throughout the game.
Getting a point yesterday only papers over the cracks, we were very poor as we were against Arsenal at OT. I hate the doom mongers who say our squad is the worst it’s been in years, and we definitely still have a great shout at the League with Chelsea losing their players to the ANC but that’s not the point… we haven’t performed well enough in the majority of games this season and it’s worrying we have nothing in centrw midfield or on the left.
We should have played same formation as Liverpool with Rooney up front to control the midfield flow. Liverpool played their socks off with much help from their wellwisher mr referee! I don’t understand how Carragher stayed on the pitch for the whole game. I hate losing to the scousers! Can’t wait for the return game at old Trafford!
Contesting which booking should & shouldn’t have been is a mute point. None of them really had any direct impact on the game.
You could argue Vidic could have been given a straight red for bringing down Kuyt. Apart from that Vidic had a pretty good game.
Carragher should have been sent off, but I agree with Gooner that it doesn’t ‘Guarantee’ us a point. I would have fancied our chances though and I’m pretty sure Vidic wouldn’t have been sent off as a result.
The match winning moment was when Torres grilled Ferdinand for pace and smashed the ball past VDS. It was the defining moment with we failed to produce the entire game.
Carricks pen shout was 50/50. Seen them given.
if we win our next two games we’ll be back at the top fo the league
we’ll never die
It was Liverpool’s pressing football which earned them this win. i am surprised that we rarely committed on the ball. Surprising.
Tackling a pressure situation is ingrained in this team, but it was nowhere to be seen ystrdy.
felt so so frustrated.
It seems to me that we capitulate to any team that piles on aggression (not passion) – Keano would have set that one straight. Playing with both Scholesy and Giggs – yes they’re experienced, but have lost that burning flame – no wonder no one fears us anymore.
As regards the ref – its obvious that this particular one-sidedness came as retribution for SAF’s issue with fitness.
Long live MU
its true, the referee was shit, but he never lost you the game did he?
can someone explain why mr graham poll thinks that carragher should remain on the field? he claims that owen was not on a goal scoring opportunity hence no straight red?
honestly, mr poll should just remain retired and keep his mouth shut
All i can say is United were due a good hiding sooner or later. We have been poor all season!!! Against Arsenal we were lucky and against Sunderland we were lucky to even get draws!!!
Tactically we look very weak and the team selection is ridiculous!!!
How many teams in the EPR would start with O’Shea!!?? Zero would be everybody’s answer. He truly is a sunday league footballer!!!
Furthermore our midfield was nowhere near as dynamic as it should have been against Liverpool’s woeful midfield!!!
Scholes was far too slow and hindered the team going forward and should have been replaced by half time!!.
Unfortuantly Giggs wasn’t at his best either but on the plus side he’s been one of our better players this season and played alot better when he came inside off the wing. Mainly because he actually attacked Liverpools midfield!!!! Rooney didn’t look fit and I don’t care how much people say Rooney and Berbatov work, they simply don’t!!! They have the potential but the tactics need reworking to get the best out of both of them!!
After seeing some very average football last year I thought things could only get better but judging by the season so far we’re onto another year of boring football!!!
Time for Fergie to demote Phelan and get a decent assitant manager (even bring back Quieroz!!) and sign a central (scoring) midfielder, in the mould of Scholes of old, to score some f*@**g goals in midfield!!!
rdurango @ 0:14 – I saw the left-footed goal. I was amazed but from now on I won’t say he’s one-footed, just “primarily one=footed” (I counted 14 goals in that video, one with his left foot) But, I don’t want to be churlish and thank you for the evidence. If I hadn’t seen it, I wouldn’t believe it. When will he use his left foot for UTD ?
jo_ro @ 11:35 – Right, Torres out ran Rio BUT that situation needs to be seen in the context in which it happened. Rio and Vidic were caught square and it was Rio who was covering for Vidic after Torres simply blew by Nemanja to run onto the pass-into-space. It was an excellent counter-attacking goal.
And, credit-where-credit’s-due – Benayoun’s ball to Torres was one of those inch-perfect, defence-splittings passes that open up unwary defences.
I would like to see an upside down triangle at the top, at least once, with Berba playing right behind Rooney and Owen in a ‘very attacking’ midfield role. He can still makes runs forward ,but he seems to be best when he holds the ball up and picks passes forward.
United are still doing ok, but don’t look capable of taking things to another level as they have been able to in 2 of the last 3 seasons. I think the problem is motivation, and I think that has come from inadequate backroom staff…I’m thinking Phelan and Rene. Good coaches no doubt but not N02 material. fergie needs a re-think, and before the Jan transfer window. Either bring in Laurent Blanc and have some defensive leadership, promote Ole as he’s a thinking footballer, or bring in another estblished no2…dare I say Carlos???
When Fergie has to do it all he struggles we saw a difference when McClaren left until carlos got the hang of it, and again a dip when carlos left. Phelan, nice lad half decent midfielder in his day but not a number two…discuss
After a defeat you can rely on the same old chestnuts ie. Bring back Quiroz, Berba is shit, our midfield is shit , O Shea is shit and we need Silva and Villa.
@ King Eric: I guess I’m a chess nut, don’t agree with any of those….apart from Berbatov is shit, that’s a fact not opinion.
Gary – what’s the matter with a guy who doesn’t feel the need to huff-and-puff ? Dimmy has outrageous skill and it’s the job of the wingers and midfielders to get the ball to him so that he can blow the house down.
I think that Liverpool has one of the best middle when they want to make presure and take the ball. That is the way they won yesterday.
Sketch Said,
October 25th, 2009 @22:38
- Why the fuck arent the players playing like they want to win? We are playing our fucking rivals if that doesn’t inspire you to play better than im not sure what will. Its too many times that i just feel like united dont feel like scoring any more. We could be winning 5-0 etc but just score one and bottle the other chances.WHY?
RIGHT TO THE POINT!
and we really need to spent money for more middlfield players and one gooooood player who can give goal whenever he wants…our attackers are not consistent…we need someone who can deliver 20-25 goals. I think that somethimes we buying limited players. We need world class players, and start to give chance to young players, becuase Scholes cant play good forever.
but sometimes i just think that those replacements are not good enough…
We need somebody like Ribery, he is a top class, and he makes a difference, in middle Kaka, and in front i dont know, but someone good. And i dont understand why in every game, even when he plays bad, Rooney has to play? If it is not your day, say to SAF that you cant play, and give a chance to someone else.
denton davey
look at his performences, we all know roy keanes feelings on veron and you look at berbatov and he is playing at times has bad as veron who despite the skill of veron that is not enough to be playing at united.
@ denton davey: Maybe Berbatov just isn’t making those runs, because when Owen comes in he seems to get a chance every time. I’m sick of hearing about his touch to be honest, his touch isn’t winning us games! Berbatov, blow the house down?! Since when has he done that in a red shirt?! There have been strikers gone past who things didn’t quite work out for, Forlan, for example, but atleast the lad all ways put the effort and still came up with crucial goals against major rivals when we needed it, unlike Berbatov.
I’m sick of seeing that prick throwing his arms in the air and moaning. And answer me this, why o why does he take 30 seconds to drag his arse up of the floor only after having this irritating habbit of pulling his socks up first? The bloke really really fucks me off! Fergie is massively dissapointed deep down with him since he came , but he will never admit it and his own stubborness is costing us. Take a loss and get him out. We’ll be lucky to get 10 million for Berbatov.
@rdurango: David Villa and Silva would be awful buys for United? You would rather Mame Biram Diouf came along in January would you? I’m bloody glad you are not in charge of our club.
I find it strange you think La Liga is such a weak leauge? For a start Barcelona are clearly the best team in Europe, and while the top 4 in England may be too strong for Spain’s other top sides, the overall quality of La Liga is stronger. The fringe teams in Spain all ways thump our fringe teams in Europe like Everton and Spurs. The premiership is in decline if you ask me. The only side of the top 4 this season who looked to have improved is Arsenal.
Red Card =
Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free-kick or a penalty kick
Owen’s run was in a direction angled away from the goal. Therefore not a red card offence.
Decision was correct.
Itsafact – the incident was pretty much identical the incident that saw Nemanja Vidic sent off at Old Trafford last season. Why?
Professional foul – a professional foul is a deliberate act of foul play, usually to prevent an opponent scoring.
Dragging a player to the ground as the last man is a deliberate act of foul play.
Tell us another one of your facts!
Scott the Red
I quote one FIFA’s Laws on what is a red card offence. Fact. I am not aware of a ‘professional foul’ law.
The line of Owen’s run was not towards goal. It was angled to chase the pass – his run was taking him more towards the corner flag. Fact.
With respect to last season’s incident. Gerrard played the ball past Vidic and was dragged down whilst running at the goal. Red card offence (see earlier ruling by FIFA). Fact.
In terms of your reference on a professional foul.
Professional foul – a professional foul is a deliberate act of foul play, usually to prevent an opponent scoring.
Where does this come from? Did you make this up?
Again, in case you didn’t read the law of the game (quoted earlier) Sending-off offence = Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal.
Is that clear yet?
ITSAFACT – I know you’re not aware of the professional foul rule, that’s why I told you about it. Repeating what you said in your last comment doesn’t make the professional foul rule disappear.
Do your homework before coming on here making a fool out of yourself eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_foul
What Carragher did was a professional foul and by the laws of the game should have been sent off.
Now, run along.
Thanks for enlightening me on the replacement of the now defunct ‘professional foul’ wording.
The fact remains that the ‘professional foul’ is not worded in the laws of football. Unless you want to use other out of date and revised laws too to make an argument or suggest someone is making a fool of themselves by merely questioning inaccurate/incorrect statements by another user.
I am not repeating myself to ‘make the professional foul rule disappear’ …with the greatest respect I am trying to make the point (although you still don’t seem to get it) that in the incident you are referring to, the requirement for a red card to be given out, was that Owen would have needed to be running towards the goal (to get to the ball the line of his run was not at the goal…he was running at an angle taking him away from the goal).
Hopefully this is clear, you don’t need to do any homework….I’ve already done it by quoting from the laws of the game….you just need to read and understand plain English.
If you want to ‘run along’ and find the ruling that says Carragher should have been sent off then do so. But until you find it I suggest you stick to the facts that have been presented and refer to the current laws of the game, before you question the decision made by the referee or the comments of someone who has bothered to check the facts and has the audacity to state you’re wrong.
I’ll let others decide who is making a fool out of themselves.
the mancs are going mad because things didnt go their way! ah the irony of it!
ITSAFACT, well said mate, a good dose of reality for these deluded mancs is just whats needed!
ITSAFACT – Carragher was the last man and Owen had beaten him for pace. How is that not a goal-scoring opportunity? Surely you’ve seen Owen score goals from positions like that countless times when he used to play for you. How can a player who has beaten the last man not be in a goal scoring position? Are you suggesting Owen couldn’t have scored had he not been hauled down by Carragher? That’s quite simply ridiculous.
The ball Giggsy played in to Owen against City was travelling at a similar angle. By your understanding, that was not a goal scoring opportunity either. So, I can’t understand how he managed to score a goal from that position then…
A word of advice – don’t throw around the word ‘fact’ like it adds weight to your ramblings. You clearly have as much of a grasp of it’s meaning as your manager. The sky is green, fact.
Scott the Red – I’m not trying to add weight to my argument…nor, unlike you, am I suggesting or hypothesizing on whether Owen could/may have scored a goal. It is you that doesn’t seem to have much grasp of facts.
Please read, reflect and try to understand what I have written ( and try to read it all…not ignore the bits that don’t fit your argument).
You are consistently missing out a crucial part of the law (that I have repeated) that determines whether a red card should be handed out. I’ll emphasise it below in capital letters to help you out (I say emphasise it to YOU because I suspect everyone one else understands the specific point I am making regardless of what team they support). My point is on the laws of the game, do you believe that the laws should be applied differently depending upon which team you support?
Here goes …concentrate….
Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity TO AN OPPONENT MOVING TOWARDS THE PLAYERS GOAL goal by an offence punishable by a free-kick or a penalty kick.
I am prepared to stand corrected but I shall on this occasion, especially for you, enter the realms of conjecture/assumption/subjectivity/unsubstantiated commentary and say that ….
You are unlikely to concede the point because you don’t want to admit on this occasion you are wrong and have been shown to other readers that you are wrong.
On the red card argument I think I have objectively and clearly articulated why your opinion on the decision is wrong.
Even now, you have an opportunity to redeem yourself (partly) at this juncture. Will you take it by doing the right thing or will you persist with your current line of argument and dig yourself deeper and deeper into oblivion. Your credibility is on the line here. To take a leaf out of your previous comment…a word of advice….think clearly before you respond, and when you do respond my advice would be to concede the argument in a respectful and honorable way.
The floor is yours.
Gary Said,
October 27th, 2009 @10:45
“Fergie is massively dissapointed deep down with him since he came , but he will never admit it and his own stubborness is costing us. Take a loss and get him out. We’ll be lucky to get 10 million for Berbatov.”
1000% TRUTH!
I originally posted the below in another thread. Perhaps it places better on this one. Ta.
As we all know other clubs view United as their biggest fixture. There’s been a tendency in recent years to attach a meeting with us as an opportunity to “turn things around” for many on top of the usual one-off game-raising aspect United always face.
This was such a match for Liverpool – again – and that’s the real issue either their fans are unaware of or are afraid to acknowledge.
As happened last season United will, when it truly matters, get the results they need in the sense that setbacks like Sunday’s are rendered inconsequential to the wider achievements.
Yep, it’s Liverpool and it hurts more but with reference to what I said in the first paragraph above, remember this.
Benitez’s Liverpool are victims of his management in that, in the long game of winning the Premiership, you are guaranteed intermittent periods where they need to “turn things around”. It is a fundamental flaw highlighting why, I believe anyway, he will never win the English Premiership.
He offers Liverpool fans that psychological trap-door of hope above and anguish below. In Premiership title terms with Benitez in charge they’ll always be standing on it.
Scott the red you can keep bleating until you are blue in the face, but referees are advised to give a red card for serious foul play when (a) the player is denied a clear goalscoring opportunity and/or (b) no other player can intercede.
Like it or not, in the case of Carragher’s foul on Owen, not only did Owen NOT have a clear goalscoring opportunity (yes he could have a strike, but the angle from which it would have come would have made it quite easy to save, as both he and the ball were travelling away from goal), but there were two other players coming in, at least one of whom could, and probably would have made an additional attempt to intercede.
The referee therefore made the correct decision in awarding a free kick and a yellow card to Carragher.
So stop squealing like a fucking schoolgirl and get over it.