Since agreeing a deal with Real Madrid for Cristiano Ronaldo, rival fans have looked for any possible way to have a pop at us about it. Considering we’ve won three league titles, the European Cup, the FA Cup and two League Cups with Ronaldo in our squad, it really is hard to argue that we haven’t got value for money on a player we bought six years ago for £12.24m. After helping us to win all those trophies, we’ve gone on to sell him for over six times what we paid for him. Christ almighty, will there ever be a better deal in football? The lad wanted to leave and we still totally smashed the World record transfer fee and made close to a £68m profit!
But of course, this is Manchester United, so it stands to reason that everyone else will be getting off on something they see to be our misfortune. It’s been the same whenever any big player has moved along. Lest we forget the last time this amount of fuss was seen was when David Beckham was sold to Real Madrid. Do you want to remind all these ABUs that our replacement for Beckham turned out to be the Best Player In The World (TM), or shall I?
So, to try and make themselves feel better about the fact they’re not English Champions and we are, the fact that we’ve got £80m for a player we spent £12.24m on and they haven’t, and the fact that we’ll still be favourites to win the title again next season and they won’t, with or without Ronaldo, the jokes start to roll, like the one this Arsenal site.
Manchester United are Real Madrid’s feeder club.
We’ve sold four players to the Spanish club in the past six years and they weren’t just any old players, they were good players, so maybe this ‘feeder club’ tag is accurate.
First it was David Beckham in 2003 who we sold for £24.5m, all at a profit as he came from our youth academy. He was 28-years-old, having seen out the best days of his career and helping the club win six league titles, two FA Cups and the European Cup. His love for the game was at a low point, too consumed with fame and financial success, so it was the right time to sell. He was ready for a new challenge and it was time to part ways.
Next it was Ruud van Nistelrooy in 2006 who we sold for £11m after paying £19m for him. We had him from being 25 to 30, the very peak of his career, scoring 150 goals in 219 games, winning the league, the FA Cup and the League Cup. We still got a respectable transfer fee for him though, which was good going considering he wanted out and was now in his 30s. He played in just six league games in his third season, kept out all year with injury, and has now been linked with a £1.25m return to the Premiership this summer.
Then Gabriel Heinze in 2007, who did the unspeakable and tried to leave the club to join Liverpool! Clearly Ferguson wasn’t having that and would have sold him to anyone who asked. We had bought him for £6.9m as a 26-year-old, then sold him for £8m as 29-year-old. In his first season he managed just 20 league games and in his second season just 24 league games, suffering injury after injury after injury.
Now the most recent deal to be agreed is £80m for Cristiano Ronaldo. I’ve already looked at what a fantastic bit of business this is.
I hate Real Madrid but in reality they’re only a worse version of what we are. It’s all relative. Conference sides might look at teams in League Two the same way, just as League Two may look at League One teams, and League One teams may look at Championship teams etc. If you have more money than another team then you stand a good chance of buying their player. For example, Mathieu Flamini verbally agreed to sign professional terms with Marseille, the club whose youth team he belonged to. But Arsenal came in with more money and he left his boyhood team, committing “beautiful treason”. It was no surprise when four seasons later he did the same thing to Arsenal that he did to Marseille, moving up to an even bigger club, AC Milan, on a free transfer. Ouch, but that’s football these days.
So if we’re going to rip a club off, make them pay way over the odds for players whose careers have certainly come to an end with us, then I’m glad it is Real Madrid. Whilst City have more money than Real, the Spanish club also have the history and reputation to bring in the best players, and they take full advantage of that. They have spent £274.3m on (Ronaldo), Kaka, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo and Beckham. That is insane. So if we can get our mits on some of their money then great, particularly when you consider that the four players in question had enjoyed successful years with United, all four of them winning the Premiership with us at least once, and all four of them seeking a move. You can’t make a player stay at your club if he wants off but if you can make a profit on him then you’re doing well for yourself.
Over six years, we’ve had £127.7m from Real Madrid for players that we paid £38.14m for! That’s a profit of £89.56m and an average income of £20.45m over the six years.
So, are we their feeder club? Personally, I’d argue we’d robbed them blind and I’m sure Arsenal are one of the many clubs who wished Real Madrid used them as a ‘feeder club’ when you get to rake in the money United have from them. We have players whose United careers have run their course and then we get to sell them off at a profit! It’s fantastic business! But I’m happy to smile and laugh along with their joke. Don’t be cruel. You know we’d be making the same jokes if we were in their position and if Real Madrid continue to give us £20.45m a season for players whose United career is over, I’ll be more than happy to continue being their ‘feeder club’!
Man Utd News 24/7
Actually Spurs might try to make a similar argument against us. But then they only have a Carling Cup to show for their troubles.
Keep reassuring yourselves, Madrid are the biggest club in football and will take from you, a small feeder cub, whatever they want.
just be happy someone is paying the intrest for the yanks or they would expect you to do it
Has anyone read we might be tempting Liverpoo with £40 million for Torres?
Truth is Spanish Clubs, namely R Marid & Barca are run by people who just dont value money. As a neutral it is quiet apparent to me that ManU are no more a feeder club of Madrid as Arsenal are of Barca. Its just business really and in either case great business for the English Clubs.
@kidmeister yeah i have but im sure its bollocks. though id be quite happy to put a cheeky 40-50 mil bid in considering the financial shite theyre in!
the Torres story is clearly bullshit. But can you imagine FSW’s reaction if Torres went to UTD. He would probably be worth signing just for that.
Sorry to say this but if you think united is the best club in the world…you should not even use the word, “feeder club to real madrid” at all…and since you are comparing united to arsenal…we are a proper football club with a way better financial position than united..look at our sales to the other big clubs: anelka .5 bought 22.5 sold
viera .5 bought 11.5 sold
henry (20) 10 bought (31)sold for 16.5
name a player who we have not made a profit on.or in your terms have we made a financial loss on…. our youth system is the best….our training ground is the best….and our manager never makes stupid transfers like forlan and veron….if wenger was at manu….and given the blind money given to sir alex, maybe united would have been the undisputed world’s best club…maybe thats why perez wanted arsene cuz he is the best manager in the world without a doubt. a real manager and a coach who grows players and gives financial stability to a club…..not a manager who buys players like berbatov for 30 million jus to put him on the bench in the most important match of the seaSON…..
Being their feeder club may not be bad for man Utd’s rather large debt (near £700 million and not even making interest repayments yearly?). Again that money will put into the transfer kitty which can be considered a double edged sword. Beckham was at his peak but a very limited player, same with RVN and Heinze, all good at what they do but there were better players out there. Find me someone better than Ronaldo right now who will replace an average of 35 goals per season for you and help dominate games like he did. Lets face it, he is a sh*t of a person, but a great footballers and you won’t be able to replace him, thus weakening you, regardless of who you purchase to replace him.
Fergie is still pissed with Real over the Beckham sale, they (Real) thought we had parted with him for peanuts . Making his fee back in 48hrs on merchandising .I hope we have sold them a virus this time .. We United should hold to our destiny of overhauling these so called Galacticos in Europe .
“Arsenal Aren’t The Only Ones Who Should Would Wish To Be Real’s ‘Feeder Club’”
Yes, that makes perfect sense…
“Has anyone read we might be tempting Liverpool with £40 million for Torres?”
Whether the story’s true or not, whether ‘Pool will have to sell or not, it’s going to give Benitez many, many sleepless nights wondering if the owners will sell behind his back. Never mind, they can always bring Voronin back from Germany, or where ever he is.
And a sale would mean that SG would have to do a lot more diving to win matches.
Is Fergie serious, or is he just getting his own back at Benitez?
SAF should walk the talk now: get real top quality players at the right position. Where’s our right back? Central midfielder? Why concerned about flashy wingers and strikers? WE lost the UCL final for 2 reasons: 1. SAF’s fear factor/his inexcusable failure to go at Barca’s depleted defence . He put out a terrible formation with no sense or logic, leaving Barca do what they do best: Attack and destroy . 2. Lack of a Xavi or Iniesta or even a Gerrard or Lampard in the midfield. So, hope he is realistic and not glamor-struck.
I think the difference is that Arsenal only sell players we can replace who’ve given the best of their careers to us.
@Fabregas’dad
The rest did though didnt it?
Looking forward to a summer of hope and expectation until arsene does nothing and have your 5th trophyless season?
Real Madrid continue to give us £20.45m a season for players whose United career is over, I’ll be more than happy to continue being their ‘feeder club’!
Of course Ronaldo’s career is nearly over – you’ve sold a player who will reaching his prime in the next few years. Real Madrid pissed themselves when they bought Beckham – they made a huge profit on him.
Park Anderson Scholes Valencia
Tevez Rooney
Even that crock of shit will cost you £40m and your a much weaker team than last season.
While we are signing Torres we should grab Gerrard too. Then we can sit Gerrard on the Bench every week only bringing him on for 2 mins for 9 matches so while everyone around him gets a Premiership medal he has to do without
brain dead morons
Of course it’s superb business selling a player you bought for £12m and sold on for £80m, its softens the blow, but I think that is the only positive you can take from the transfer.
I bet deep down you United fans are gutted that he has left.
How can you replace those goals he provided? Or that ability?
I’ve even read some United fans saying he was only a free-kick specialist?!!
I hate to say it but over the last two years, in my opinion, he has been the best player in the world and you have reaped the benefits.
To lose him is a massive blow and although you will probably buy some big-name replacement it will be a big big ask to replace Ronaldo.
I wrote on my blog the other that United are now Real Madrid’s feeder club, mainly in jest, but you have to ask yourselves; Are United the biggest club in the world like many of you claim?
No they are not. Real Madrid are by far the biggest in world football by a big margin and players will always rather join them than yourselves.
United still are the benchmark in English football though and I only hope that we, Arsenal, can mount a serious challenge to your title this season.
Good luck for the season and lets hope its a four-way title race!
@ Wakey, though it would piss off most scousers well and good i think he would be slightly more useful on the pitch!
I don’t think Ronaldo is past it and I can see how we are Real Madrid’s feeder club. The problem is players want to leave United for Madrid. Why is that? Why does that happen?
You want A better value-for-money deal.
Nikolas Anelka:
Bought by Arsenal: 500,000 (pounds)
Won: 1 Premier League / FA Cup Double
Sold (One Season Later, Ironically to Real Madrid): 21Million (pounds)
In terms of the ‘mark-up’ I think it blows even Ronaldo’s deal out of the water.
not even football fans,you morons actualy think utd play good football,your all children,boring long ball tactics.im 55,so i have seen far better teams in my life liverpool.even,and im an evertonian.barcelona play football,arsenal try to play football,utd cheat dive pressure the ref,just do anything to win.
What?
???
MICHELDU9 – Fuck off you cunt. Did you see the Champions league semi final where we tore the gooners to shreds?
@Wrighty7:
You bring up some good points.Personally, i do believe that we have become their feeder club even though we get the best out of every footballer before we send him there.Losing Ronaldo is a big blow,but for many United fans,it’s a blessing in disguise.The Cristiano Ronaldo we loved in 03-08 died last summer.What we had last year was basically a Real Madrid player who was on loan with us.It’s difficult to fill that gap,but as is always the case when a big player leaves, another one steps up. When Cantona left, Cole upped his game.When Ruud left,Rooney and Ronaldo came into their own.Now with Ronaldo leaving,it will give a chance to Rooney,Berbatov and even Nani to shine.
Why does everyone keep saying UTD made a £68Million profit on Ronaldo
did they not pay him during that time ?
He was at Utd for 6 years and say you average out his earnings at £100,000 a week ( he was on less than that originally and more by end) this equals
£31.2 M plus the 12.2M they paid for him and the total PROFIT is £36.6M
As for selling Beckham for a £24 M profit – Please! You sell the top attraction in football for peanuts and six years later you still see kids walking round with Beckham on their backs – should have left him on bench if he was nt good enough and cashed in on his name for a few more years THAT would have been good business !
Park Scholes Anderson Valencia
Rooney Tevez
£40m – best midfield in the world.
MICHELDU9 watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QALY0kbJWzs
MICHELDU9
dont get out much do you. its ok m8 nurse will be round with ya medicine soon
I hear that the Villa signing has frozen because Valencia have raised their demands.
Villa to Real i meant
valencia in a shit load of debt don’t blame em for ripping off madrid
Hey folks.
Im an Arsenal fan. Id just like to say i do not see why Arsenal fans are taking the mickey sayin man utd are Madrids feeder club, because we are barcelona’s feeder club!!! We’ve sold them Henry, Hleb, Van bronkhorst, Adebayor almost went last season and where do you think fabregas will be going when he gets fed up with us?
So i dont really get that Arsenal blogs point
Absolutely vidic. I just hope that if we come knocking, they will be more reasonable with us.
Real might turn to Forlan now.
AlphaRS Said,
June 14th, 2009 @11:22
The problem is players want to leave United for Madrid. Why is that? Why does that happen?
For that question the answer is geographic location. Many player want to leave the cold & wet England to played in the warm & sunshine place like Madrid. Another thing is the glamorous life in Madrid.Just like happen to Beckham for the love of his wife & C.Ronaldo for the Madrid girls.
You missed the crucial point
We are Barcelona’s feeder club:
Henry
Sylvinho
Hleb
van Bronckhorst
Petit
Overmars
Fabregas (2 – 5 seasons)
All these players (there are probably more) have gone from Arsenal to Barcelona. We find these players, make them into superstars and then Barcelona buy them
I think Old Red Nose has something of an intuition about Ronnie Boy which nobody else would suspect, namely that we’ve seen the best of him. One of S A F’s cleverest traits is detecting the moment where a player allows his ego to overtake his ability. I think this is precisely what has happened. Ronaldo is considered to be World number 1 at the moment, but when you consider other greats who had that accolade, Cruyf, Maradona, even Cantona, he doesn’t rank very highly. Ronaldo is certainly not bigger than Manchester United, but he definitely thinks he is. So its quids in for you.
I’d have been happier had Ronaldo stayed then that we sold/are going to sell him…howeer it was inevitable and i think it panned out pretty well for us given the circumstances though i might have tried squeeze those spanish wankers for a bit more but thats jus me being greedy
The real succes of the transfer (no pun intended) depends on who we bring in now as ultimately i dont give a flying fuck if the club is 80mil richer if its not going to be result in benefits on the field though to be fair the Glazers have said that the money is ours to spend
Don’t believe that garbage of the Torres bid…utter bollocks ! if he did come it would be the transfer of the century because much as i hate to admit it the lad is class both in terms of ability and also his apparent attitude but given how we refused to sell Heinze to them on principle (and rightly so) i dont see them letting their best player leave to join their biggest threat to winning the EPL notwithstanding their financial difficulties
I just hope that we manage to get the players that the club would have certainly had on its radar when the decision to sell was made and that we do so quickly so that a) we can enjoy our summer and b) so that the player has enough time to integrate into the squad and hit the ground running…Berbatov should have been a lesson
@Costas,
Totally agree about that;
“What we had last year was basically a Real Madrid player who was on loan with us”
I think you will also see a different style of play from United next season. Everything centered around Ronaldo and perhaps the likes of Rooney will benefit from his departure.
Totally agree with u Costas. Ever since Moscow he has been waiting to go. His attitude post Rome confirmed this and although I am gutted he’s gone, it’s the best thing that could have happened. The last year has been like a rocky marraige and at least it is finally over. Thanks for 6 years and so many memories and good luck following your dream Ronnie, but as you said yourself “dreams don’t always come true”. You may have your move but you have lost the protection a family gives you.
Manchester United will have to pay over the odds now for any player you try to buy.
Clubs will know you have £80m burning a hole in your pocket.
As an Arsenal fan I really wouldn’t want to be Madrid’s feeder club. We are already Barcelona’s: Bronckhurst, Silvinho, Overmars, Hleb, Henry. But the money we make doesn’t get re-invested as it should. The board at Arsenal are stinking scrooges.
Selling Ronaldo for 80m was as good as it gets for man u. But they weren’t exactly in need of it, they always manage to splash the cash. Fergie’s team largely consists of big money signings: Ferdinand, Vidic, Anderson, Carrick, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Rooney etc etc…at Arsenal we have Arshavin and Eduardo and even those are closer to 10m than 20 million. Fergie is by no means a better manager than Wenger he just has sh*t loads more money.
Anyway I’m rambling, the fact remains Ronaldo is irreplaceable and United will be losing and drawing far more games next season.
@zalee
We do have women in Manchester.
It is not that man utd is feeder club for real madrid.
It is that UK is feeder club for warm climate and tax friendly countries.
The players are going to Spain for the warm weather for full year of sun etc. etc.
Even now when footballers will be banged with 50% income tax more players shall move to spain (and let’s face it previous rate of 40% was also enormous). As they have lower tax rate and exchange of pond to EUR is not any more so huge.
the fact that income tax is only 20% in spain might help also
Arsenal play boring football.
“I think the difference is that Arsenal only sell players we can replace who’ve given the best of their careers to us.”
yes, of course. With Henry in the team you have been in the CL final and won the Premiership in 02 and 04. Have you replaced Flamini ? Have you won anything in the last 4 years. Don’t talk bullshit.
But the Madrid situation is really bothering me to be honest but all this players wanted to go or have been sold for sone reasons. And it really doesn’t explain the fact that we have the largest fanbase in the world. (still doubtful about that)
Ronaldo at the end of his career?
Real Madrid offered big money deals for Henry and Vieira once but Wenger refused. Get your facts right mate.
About Flamini, Arsenal is no smaller club than AC Milan. They both have the same target ( winning the CL ).
If you want to get really pedantic about profit margins, we sold Anelka to Madrid for 44 times what we bought him for! Nah, in all honesty their reputation means they can go after almost any player in the world and get them. But its just a mark of their non-existent youth system.
“But its just a mark of their non-existent youth system.”
Real has won the youth cup in Spain beating Barca in the final recently.
@ Corea
mate we easily have the largest fan base on earth. Madrid have fuck all fans outside of spain/ europe (?)
but United have near monopoly in Africa and Asia, not to mention the Americas, due to the popularity of the EPL, and our domination in it!
Didnt ronaldo spend the night with Paris Hilton…., hmmm, i guess you lot did sell them a virus then.
“Fergie is by no means a better manager than Wenger he just has sh*t loads more money.”
Are you absolutely sure he will be more successful than Fergie with the money Fergie got ?
It is a very superficial statement my Gooner Friend.
@Corea
wow, didn’t know that. But how many of them will ever get into the first team, with the Perez so bent on regaining their galactico reputation?
@oracle
Right at this moment arsenal have spent more cash than Utd. You have a bigger squad and pay roughly the same wages. Wenger is a great manager but better than fergie?
@ Anon
why Premiership is so popular ? If in Spain they play the most attractive football ? what’s the matter ?
And again. Arsenal play boring football. Take that!
Corea in 2003,a United team also won the youth cup here but not many players made it to the first team.Youth systems are not only about youth trophies.They are about how many players can break into the first team.Look at what United did last year with their youth players.How many Real Madrid youngsters have broken into the first team in recent years?
@ Jonny
It’s simple. The financial formula tells you sell shirt now, not in 5-7 years time. Or maybe they don’t have shaved legs in their youth team.
Boring football? You can’t be serious.
@ Costas
i simply tell facts, mate. This guy was misinformed. Everything else YES, you are right as always.
But if the management doesn’t want them to play in the first team ?
‘Right at this moment arsenal have spent more cash than Utd. You have a bigger squad and pay roughly the same wages. Wenger is a great manager but better than fergie?’
Wrong. The Arsenal wage figures that are published are for every single person employed by the club, and not just the players.
Ronaldo is the only player we have sold to Madrid who has yet to reach the peak of hi career, all other players we have sold have gone past their peak and were no longer needed.
Heinze was 2nd choice to Evra and was never the same player after his knee injury.
Ruud didnt fit in with the style of play we were developing and was far to slow and greedy.
Beckham was again to slow and past his best (Credit to him for his recent comeback and form), but beckham again spent a lot of time 2nd choice to Veron.
Of the players we have sold Madrid, Ronaldo is the only one I was sorry to see go and the only one we will miss.
@ Jonny
you honestly think that you can say everywhere that you play the most wonderful fotoball in the world ? Gooners say like this everywhere.
It’s like a dogma for all of you. I’m afraid it’s not.
@Corea:
Yes we can’t know what happens after that. The Spanish have that thing with Real B and Barcelona B going on and that helps them a lot i feel. After that, it seems like Real never want to trust their own players.They will always seek new players from other countries.They probably feel that in the long term, they will make more money than they spend on them through shirt sales.The unfortunate thing is that they can spend without anyone doing anything about it.
@ Wrighty7
“No they are not. Real Madrid are by far the biggest in world football by a big margin and players will always rather join them than yourselves.”
Like i mentioned on an earlier post, that domination does not extend beyond Europe. Ronaldo grew up in Portugal and it was his parents’ dream to see him play for the biggest club in their vicinity, Real.
But don’t expect too many talents from the Asian and African markets (which definitely hold the future of the game) to be rooting for Madrid over Manchester like most European (and some South American) players do.
No, I never claimed to play the most attractive football in the world. But I’ve never come across someone who claims it to be boring. Even the most close-minded, arrogant, idiotic United fans will normally conceed that we play attractive football.
Boring football? Us?
……………. Really?
:scratcheshead:
Corea,
Henry left but we haven’t seen him put in the same level of performance he gave at Arsenal. We’re not scoring fewer goals. If anything, last season we scored more goals.
Flamini is not a superstar. He was replaced quite easily from within the team, and again we haven’t seen Flamini at AC Milan playing at the level he achieved in his last season in Arsenal.
We sold Vieira and Fabregas stepped right into the team.
You actually haven’t replaced Van Nisterooy. You still don’t have a prolific striker. It took you 4 years to replace Jaap Stam.
Who will you replace Ronaldo with? Antonio Valencia? He is irreplaceable for you, and he’s not even at the end, talkless of the peak of his career. His best years are yet to come.
That’s what feeder clubs do. Sell their best players in their prime with no hope of replacing them.
another point worth dwelling over is the generation most of these players belong to. I think Ronaldo is of a dying breed, those brought up on Madrid and Liverpool, AC and Bayern as top clubs of Europe. Beginning with guys like Danny and Kiko, we are entering a generation who have been brought up in a time where United have dwarfed every other EPL team, and Barcelona have been better than Madrid, while Juve have dented Milan’s ego severely.
So the coming generation are going to be “dreaming” about United, Barca and probably Juve, and not Madrid.
Like wise if we keep up our winning habits for another ten years, who is to say we won’t displace RM as the footballing Monarchy of the world? For god’s sake Madird gloat so much about their nine European trophies, 6 of which they won when no one was looking! I think, for more reasons than one, the future is RED, and if it all there is a repeat of the Ronnie story in the future, it would be in the reverse direction, a foreign player crying it out at Madrid or Milan for a transfer to Manchester.
lol corea you cant call attacking football boring,you can call it stupid when the defence fuck everything up but never boring mate
i think all this feeder club talk is nonsense,it aint like man utd have sold a bunch of home grown talent to madrid,they just recouped and profited on money spent previously,i think they will miss ronaldo big time but thats down to the way the team play next season
Someone also pointed out about the Arsenal-Barca connection.I think that United and Arsenal can be classified as feeders in that sense,but look who gets the better deal long term.In most cases,United and Arsenal sell the player at a better price than the one they bought him for.So we could call them,glorified feeders.
Ole Gunner
you are contradicting yourself there mate.
You say we are yet to replace Van Nistelrooy, but you yourself haven’t replaced Henry the goal machine have you? If so which is the player scoring a goal every other game for you over the past two seasons? you have hidden him pretty well from the public! :O
I thin Scott has stated this enough times already, but i’l reiterate this,
since Ruud left we have won 3 back to back Premierships, 1 CL and a Carling cup. Thats 5 trophies in 3 years, almost 2 every season. Not bad eh?
Just like selling Henry has in fact increased the goals for the team as a whole for you guys, even though one person hasn’t been scoring em all like Thierry used to, why can’t United benefit the same way by Ronaldo’s departure?
Why can’t Rooney, Berba and who ever we buy next score 20 each? I don’t see any reason why?
United won’t replace ronaldo, not only because he is an irreplaceable talent, but also because we DON’T NEED TO.
Just like we changed the way we played after Ruud, we shall do it again post CR7.
Infact I see a lot of similarities with the Ruud and CR situations.
Foremost is the fact that just like 3 seasons ago, this season UTD played in a very VERY uncharacteristic fashion, most of it due to one individual’s presence.
Fergie was never going to bench the best player in the world, the first from Untd to hold the title since Best/Law/Charlton himself.
So basically we have done what was best for both parties. Ronnie gets his dream in Paris, errm, Madrid, while United can go back to the attacking style that we are best at.
@ arsene wenger
one of yours came here and started all of this. there is no absoluteness in this world. there are many classy Gooners who do not come here and talk about their beautiful football. I love our style of play, i love crosses, i love shots from the long distance, i love the mixture. We have that mixture.
But to came here and say we play boring football ? Cmon!
to be clear… the treasury gets a very large part of your Ronaldo “profit”. Check out the rules on capital gains… damn
As well… the deal is structured over 4 seasons. The £20m/ year wont even (near) cover the interest on your loans.
So. You sold your best asset before he reached his prime for absolutely no advantage other than to help the Glazers continue to payoff the debt they put on your club simply to BUY it…
dark days indeed.
Sad to see Ronaldo go but i would much rather Ronaldo leave than Rooney, lets see how well he plays in a team not built around him.
@ Costas
yep mate we are a feeder club. we feed em slow poison like Heinze and cr7, and watch em go down smokin 2-6 at their home ground!
Losing Henry helped Arsenal in retrospect. A lot of the players came out and said they felt they had to pass to him, and many were afraid to give him an earful when he made a mistake. Maybe losing Ronaldo will have a similar effect, although Ronaldo’s presence in the United team was much less than Henry’s at Arsenal.
@ GOONAH!!
well Madrid may pay the 80 mil in 4 installments, but the Glazers can always extend 80 mil to Fergie, coz they know the 80 mill will DEFINITELY be paid. So Fergie can spend the money anyway.
You see, at OT we do it differently compared to the Arse.
a lot of arsenal fans believe that man utd play 3 defensive midfielders in the big games,and let ronaldo do the rest corea,a lot of people are happy that ronaldo has gone,me personally i think that people should focus on the weakneses at home rather than the strengths of the neighbours,its all about style,i wouldnt say man united play unattractive football, but right now i wouldnt say arsenal play succesful football,so the balance swings to uniteds style for me
jonny well i hope they realise that passing to henry was a privelidge compared to passing to their mates robin and ade
Jonny:
agreed mate. my feelings exactly.
and your point about their presence is sound too. Coz if i am not mistaken, not only was Ronaldo NOT a senior player at our team unlike Henry at the old enemy, he was also not head and shoulders above the rest. Rooney was always sniffing just around the corner as far as the best young player at OT title was concerned.
Suggestion to fellow Reds: how about we reserve the no. 7 for that kid Ljajic? If he is even half as talented as i keep hearing, then he would glide into that jersey, if you ask me.
anon what are you talking about? whats different about recieving payments in installments from poor clubs like real madrid?, one benefit man united have is they aint dealing with islington council,their allowed to extend their home without havin to build 3 citys farms and 5 tower blocks and probably fill brown bags full of cash for every local MP
@ arsene wenger
it doesn’t matter what football do you play. in fact it matters. but you can’t hide your failures by arguing who plays the most beautiful football.
there is no such kind of thing if you don’t put the ball in the net. somebody likes to play football without goal.
but i like the mixture.
thank you, you are very welcomed.
but i think some of Arsenal fans just adore to come here and talk bullshit. focus on your beautiful football, why come here ?
I’m really sorry but my english is poor. If it wasn’t the problem i could have express myself so much better.
But when people believe in something for so many years it is so hard for them to fall down to earth.
corea,now you know why i come here and stay away from these insane fans, arsenal sites are terrible,you have to agree that arsenal are the greatest and that adebayor is shyt and that gael clichy is the best left back in the world and so on etc if you wish to chat on an arsenal blog
arsenal im sure is the most blogged about team in planet earth,thats not a good thing,it means we have the most confused support in football, each of them with a different theory about the club,the money,the manager,blogging as an arsenal fan is equivilent of choosing which gang of LA to join,i like this site,it makes me less nervous than reading about 50 different transfer targets and when we are signing david villa each day
@ Anon
Ljajic will join man utd in jan 2010, but will still come to manchester to train with the first team throught 2009, for his progress to be monitored.
corea anyone who says they play the best football,well unless their winning stuff it aint the most efficient,we play passing football,but were not lethal infront of goal and we cant defend,where as man united and barca are, so the best brand of football has to go to united although i do feel that man united could have stepped up their game to another level during the season just passed
@ arsene wenger
you are welcome.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/charlie-nicholas-slates-arsenal-squad-big-changes-needed-250639
it looks like the gooners have their big share of problems. but of course it is always more interesting to come here and to talk about the other club’s failures. I’m not talking about you, arsene.
ok, enough is enough. but whoever comes here with bullshit will have the adequate response. no offence.
“i do feel that man united could have stepped up their game to another level during the season just passed”
spot on.
arsenals problems are more to do with the truth,no one knows if we have money,or if we sell players will wenger be given the money back,or has wenger always had money,the club charge the highest ticket prices in europe (some of the tickets are also amongst the cheapish prices),so can the board charge these figures and come out an tell people the club has no money? this is arsenals problem and has been for the last 4 years,no one knos if wenger is doing a great job or a bad job until people know the state of finances given to the manager,so when an arsenal fan comes round looking to bash man united in a way it could be taken as an annoying tribute
mysteronz and Ideket – Their UNITED careers are over. At no point did I say their CAREER was over. They’ve all gone on to play games and win trophies after leaving United. But due to their attitude it is unlikely they would have gone on to achieve any more with United. Becks, Ruud, Heinze and Ronaldo were all done with United, and United was done with them. There weren’t many reds shedding any tears over any of their departures… but say ROONEY was to leave this summer, we’d all be fucking gutted, because he’s got so far to go in his United career.
Special gooner – whatever your aspirations are at present, it’s ridiculous to claim that Arsenal are as big as AC Milan. They are European giants with 17 league titles and 7 European Cups. You’re not in the same league as them.
Jonny – yes you made more money on Anelka than we did on Ronaldo… but then Anelka didn’t win three league titles, the European Cup the League Cup and the FA Cup with you. Ronaldo scored in all those winning finals as well as being in the top three scorers in the league for the three Premiership wins. So we got loads out of him before selling him on for a massive profit.
If £80 million for a player who wanted to go there anyway – something that buying clubs typically use to their advantage in negotiating down the price – makes us a feeder club, I’m onboard.
Zidane has been having his say on the transfer. He agrees that we’ve got a good deal out of moving him on. He also commented that “yes, Manchester United are losing one of the top three players in the world, but with the money they are getting they can actually end up having a stronger and more balanced squad.
“If they invest the money well – which I am sure they will – then I can see them being better than last season.”
I’m in complete agreement with him.
i personally don’t go to the opponent’s blogs. i feel ok here and don’t need to express my ego somewhere else.
I don’t say we play the most attractive football, i say what i think. even when we play bad i say it. when we won the title in 2008 i said that Arsenal were unlucky with injuries and i was really frightened at some point. Eduardo is an enormous player. Arsene is an enormous manager.
But sometimes is is not enough for some of the people. Some people need to be treated in another way because they behave like that.
I really hope we will return to the days of the 06-07 season. what a cracker. i miss these times.
We’ve had Rooney, Saha (half of a seson), Ole and Smith. And the problem we lost to Milan wasn’t in our attack, it was with the lack of defenders.
That’s why i would take chances and play with the forwards we currently have in our disposal. The problem is that Fergie won’t take risks.
Tribal football as a source?
Epic fail!
@ HollowayHarry
you are a joke, and you know why ?
“Utd for a 4th title next season?”
4th, yes. try to win at least one.
man united problems are mostly nice problems compared to how bad they would affect other clubs,gettin 80mill for a wantaway? still havin world class forwards even though two are leaving? a few legends starting to show their age but the club still have internationals like nani and anderson to at least be given a good run out,look at us,arshavin was out of 4 games,the champions league semi’s and the semi v chelsea and the league game v chelsea and we were low on confidence and mauled each time with hardly even a shot in reply,chelsea will need another new manager by christmas,whats the odds on that? and liverpool will still be drawin everytime gerrard or torres is injured, so man united problems are the smallest in my opinion
not to mention 80 mill to spend possibly
arsene wenger – As far as I am concerned you are always welcome on here, you raise some good unbiased points.
and tevez and ronaldo off the wage bill opens it up for two superstar earners to join
king eric,cheers mate,if we win the league this year though il try keep it down
@ arsene wenger
i think u are part of a very rare breed – an arsenal fan with a brain. Nice comments mate.
arsene – Yeah, my attitude toward you may be very different if you were to win the league!
So, Arsene, enjoy it while you can!
Arsene Wenger is a good luck charm to the blog as well. The first time i saw him here was at the time they played Liverpool at Anfield. A game in hindsight that really dent the scum’s chances of getting the title. I don’t know if he had come here before that, but he is always welcome for me simply for that reason.
scott. just because you make money from some of your transfers doesnt mean your not Reals feeder club. youd be a bit of a shit one if you sold for less than you bought. still its like that with us and barca anyway, the only difference is barca arent massive cunts like real
Pedro – And I bet you wish you could have made decent money from being a feeder club too. Maybe then you’d buy some great players and win something for a change.
To be honest, Beckham was never a world class player, at least I didn’t see him that way. You made 6 times the money on CR, but what about the sale of Anelka back in the day? Bought him for 500,000 and sold him for 26 million pounds. 26 million pounds was a lot more back then than it is now, a LOT more.
Pat – like I said above: you made more money on Anelka than we did on Ronaldo… but then Anelka didn’t win three league titles, the European Cup the League Cup and the FA Cup with you. Ronaldo scored in all those winning finals as well as being in the top three scorers in the league for the three Premiership wins. So we got a lot more out Ron than you did Anelka before selling on at a massive profit.
I think you’ve lost a talent, and almost certainly your best player. The deal was done last year certainly, as the Milan Adebayor deal was too.
You can take all the money but if you lose the best players it means the team ain’t as good. Are the Glazers be looking to get a return from their investment?
Madrid use Spanish government money to fund their sprees. Remember they gave us £23M for that fool Anelka.
to be honest not really. although it would of course be nice to win trophies, but i like the policy of making stars not buying them. we have also made pretty good money from our transfers over the years. possibly better than you when taking into account money spent. i feel that most of the players at arsenal are arsenal players, not just stars taken from other teams as in liverpool chelsea and manu (possibly to a lesser extent)
Answer me this: While going on about United’s business acumen while simultaneously having a dig at Arsenal, why did you neglect to mention that United’s post-Ronaldo financial situation is being described as “a mountain of debt?”
Why did you neglect to mention that Arsenal are the one and only “big club” in the whole of Europe who is running a successful and sustainable business model?
Ask yourself how many trophies United would have won had they been operating within their own means for the last few seasons. And then try to answer the question honestly.
You can gloat all you want about your recent trophy haul, but it was all done by spending boatloads of money that you don’t actually have. You’ve become willing to lose money and jeopardize the long term future of the club for short term success. The only thing that makes the Manchester United of the past 3 seasons any different than Abramovich’s Chelsea is the folklore of the Busby Boys. Oh, and that they’re a Russian club while you’re an American club.
Watch as the walls come crumbling down. When you’re spending over 25 times as much as Arsenal, of course it will be difficult for them to compete, but when your spending relatively decreases, look for Wenger’s boys to be parading around Old Trafford with the Premiership trophy once again.
I’ll leave you with two more questions to ponder:
How many times has Fergie’s United achieved more than Wenger’s Arsenal while spending less?
How many times has Wenger’s Arsenal achieved more than Fergie’s United while spending less?
The proof is in the pudding, my bandwagon jumping friends.
Tim – same old Arsenal shit. Your lot come on here spouting the same information all the time. Yes we spend more money than Arsenal, but Chelsea spend more money than United. That hasn’t stopped us winning the league for the past three years in a row. You blame the money for your lack of success, I blame Wenger for stubbornly insisting on flogging your dead horse youth. You’ve been “in transition” for about five years now! When is it all going to click? You actually got worse this year compared to last and when your current batch of youngsters are good enough to win titles, they’ll be wearing the colours of Barca or AC Milan.
If the walls of Old Trafford come crumbling down, it won’t be Arsenal waiting to claim the title. Wenger will continue to develop youth and then sell them off at their peak to bigger clubs with more money, and you will continue to win fuck all.
Wenger hasn’t won anything since 2005. Don’t get all scouse on us and bleat about history. Wenger never won back to back titles and he never will. Wenger never won the European Cup. You’re just a cup team these days, and not a very good one at that! As we have to keep reminding Arsenal fans, there’s no trophy for spending the least amount of money and finishing fourth. Brilliant for you that you have a good business model… put it in your empty trophy cabinet to cheer yourself up, eh?
Anelka was 19 when we sold him, no? I don’t really remember and I always thought he’d turned out to be world class. But Henry came and, as they say, the rest is history.
tim you are looking at the glass half empty.You are talking as if United have always operated under a megabucks owner who buys our titles.Newsflash.Manchester United were very succesful as a PLC and the current situation has NOTHING to do with mismanagement.The debts come 100% from an American jackass who loaned money to buy the stock of the club and then made it private and dumped the debts on it.But look at the 2 clubs before the Glazers came in.Were we spending more?We probably were.Why?Because we were generating more income.It’s not our fault that our brand is the more marketable in world football is it?Look at it any way you want.96 until 05 or 96 until 09.United have won more trophies because Ferguson is a better manager.We are spending 25 more than you?Get a grip.
http://transferleague.co.uk/
Scott, thats a pretty neat link there. Check it out. True Chelsea spend more, but not that much more than United, but in all honesty, I think most say that b/c Chelski spend really big in 2 seasons. Besides those 2, I think United spend more overall, on average.
Has anyone considered that buying and selling players between teams is a natural act of football? If your team has a player another club wants, chances are at one point that player will leave. This whole feeder club theory is blown out of proportions by rival fans just so they can taunt the opposition.
@Scott the Red
“Special gooner – whatever your aspirations are at present, it’s ridiculous to claim that Arsenal are as big as AC Milan. They are European giants with 17 league titles and 7 European Cups. You’re not in the same league as them.”
Do you class yourselves in the same class as Milan then because they have won 7 European Cups to your 3?
Granted, you have won one more league title than Milan but their history is more impressive in my book.
Pat – when looking at the money spent in recent years, the money that was put in to the transfer winning teams, then you can see there’s actually a massive difference.
03/04:
Chelsea spent £153,450,000
United spent £53,150,000
04/05:
Chelsea spent £59,850,000
United spent £27,000,000
05/06:
Chelsea spent £111,900,000
United spent £20,000,000
06/07:
Chelsea spent £12,000,000
United spent £18,600,000
(United win the league despite spending £218.25m less than Chelsea)
07/08:
Chelsea spent £56,700,000
United spent £63,100,000
08/09:
Chelsea spent £8,000,000
United spent £40,750,000
TOTAL:
Chelsea spent £389.9m
United spent £222.45m
(Liverpool spent £220.99m)
So yes we certainly have spent more than Arsenal but money isn’t the be all and end all in our success, considering we’ve won three of the last six Premiership titles, despite spending considerably less than Chelsea and only a couple of million more than Liverpool.
Wrighty – I consider United one of the European giants, like Milan. They’ve won more European Cups than us, we’ve won more league titles than them. They’ve won 3 CL titles to our 2 in the modern era but I’d say Milan are a massive club, United are a massive club. I certainly don’t consider Arsenal to be in the same category as us though, no. Playing in just one European Cup final in your club’s entire history takes you out of being in the same class as AC Milan and United, amongst others.
Spot on, Costas.
Same old shit.
Fair enough Scot, thats understandable and I’d say that Arsenal aren’t at that level and probably won’t be classed at that level until we’ve won at least one Champions League title.
HOWEVER, I believe that Arsenal will be at that level one day. Everything is in place for us to do that.
Of course these last few seasons have been very frustrating for us Gooners, and United have been very impressive during this time.
“Everything is in place for us to do that.”
and now some more of that please.
What do you mean Corea?
“that”?
gotta wait for next season
The idea of big clubs is pointless. Arsenal, United, Milan, we’re only as good as we perform next season. Sure you’ve got 3 European Cups, Arsenal have none, Milan have 7 but this idea of being a big club and having an entitlement to winning everything is counterproductive to the teams, the fans and the club. If losing Ronaldo proves pivotal to your chances next season and don’t win anything, can you consider yourself a big club? As Scott said ‘going Scouse’ has a bad effect on the team. The idea of being a ‘big club’ relies entirely on history.
Arsenal fan here, Sure the feeder club comments were tongue in cheek. Jaw dropping amount of cash for Ronaldo who ‘sensibly’ could say no to that?
At the end of the day if the player wanted to go which i think he did, the best thing you can do is agree on a good fee. Great deal on your behalf!
May i ask wtf is the point of these arguments ?!
clearly we spend more than arsenal . so?!!! we do what every other club in the world does – buy players . its simple . if u dont then thats your problem , not ours . you’re also allowed to buy players , the laws are the same for both teams .
agreed , it gets irritating when undeserving teams like shitty , chelski and the fascists spend like spoilt brats , but surely you cant categorize man united as one of them!
Firstly, for the Manc who doubts that United spend 25x what Arsenal do:
United’s net spending over the last 5 seasons is 86 million plus.
Arsenal’s is 3.5 million.
Do the maths.
Secondly, you’re all claiming to spend less than Chelsea while bragging about your three successive Premier League trophies. The glaring problem with that statement is that you outspent them each of the last three years. Hey, if you can’t beat them, emulate them.
Granted, they spent more in the previous seasons, but the fact of the matter is that you weren’t able to top them until you outspent them.
Thirdly, and again directed at Costas, I think you may need to take a look at Wenger vs. Ferguson pre-Glazer.
In head to head meetings, Wenger held the edge. Fergie just went one up over Wenger with the second leg victory this season.
Fergie won 4 Premierships to Wenger’s 3.
Wenger won 4 FA Cups to Fergie’s 2.
Fergie won Europe.
Wenger did the league unbeaten.
Wenger won the league at Old Trafford.
Pretty even if you ask me, and whatever slight advantage you may have is mitigated by the fact that you exponentially outspent us each and every year.
Sure, that may have been your money to spend back then, but it isn’t anymore. Your business model is not sustainable and the FACT of the matter is than Manchester United, under Sir Alex Ferguson, have NEVER won the league in a season where they did not spend the most money.
Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal have done it on multiple occasions.
Call that bitching and moaning or making excuses or whatever you want to call it. I’d say it’s a fact-laden explanation for United’s recent relative success as compared to Arsenal.
You are incapable of winning without uber-spending. You are unwilling to even try. Arsenal, meanwhile, have proven time and time again to be capable of winning without uber-spending while having simultaneously proven willing to go about things the sporting way.
If you fielded your current crop next season, you wouldn’t have a chance in hell of winning the Prem. I look forward to wathing you plunge yourselves into further debt.
Tim – if you read my comment above, you can see that Chelsea have spent more than us over 6 years, Liverpool have spent just £2m less, yet United have been FAR more successful than both of those teams.
Money isn’t the be all and end all. So well done for going unbeaten five years ago, well done for winning the league at Old Trafford seven years ago, they are great achievements.
But your trophy cabinet is empty and is has been since 2005. I guess that’s why you’re so bitter. Your long-winded rants make for good entertainment though, so thank you.
Anant,
You are right, it is not your problem what we do.
But the point is that while your lot is continually taking the piss, we have every right to point out why things are how they currently are, and why they are likely to change.
Arsenal put all of its money into building a new stadium, hence, we haven’t had any money for players.
The flip side to that is that the new stadium has already turned us into the most profitable club in the world, so we will soon be in a position to win and we will have done so while resisting the urge to sell out like you did, like Chelsea did, like every other team in the Prem did.
We could have very easily gotten someone to bankroll us for the past three seasons to keep up with you and Chelsea but the point is that we made the wise decision of choosing a financially-sustainable model which will start paying off in the very near future.
And finally, it is reasonable to now lump yourselves with Chelsea, as you are both foreign-owned and you have now outspent them 3 years on the trot with money you don’t have.
“Arsenal, meanwhile, have proven time and time again to be capable of winning without uber-spending while having simultaneously proven willing to go about things the sporting way”
-> Since when did Arsenal won anything? Yes Vieira was a steal, but Henry & Overmars didn’t exactly come cheap u know? And after they stop spending and turned to poaching, they haven’t won anything.
- Tim, You’d do well to wear your specs
scott. you obviously didnt read tims long winded rant. he said that youve never won the league without spending the most- so for you to then point out how chelsea have spent more over 6 years kinda seems like you’re ignoring his point
Henry came very cheap. Considering what he accomplished he was an abolsute bargain.
Tim :
Your business model is not sustainable …how are you so sure ? not a single united fan knows the truth behind our finances , but you claim you do , so back it up please .
Sour grapes…
id say that henry was cheap for the best prem striker ever
Oh and we made a comfortable £20 million profit on Overmars too. Forgot to slip that in.
Anant,
Google “Manchester United debt.”
700 million plus is the number being thrown about.
Tim
you’re business plan is clearly unsustainable as you have insufficient cashflow to buy players.
We may have insufficient cashflow, but United have non-existant cash flow. Any transfers you make are backed up against money you don’t actually have.
tim ,
exactly . its being thrown about , but have any of those sites mentioned the glazers’ plan to refinance that debt ?! you provide me a link (credible) that tells us in no uncertain terms that united are going to do a leeds and i’ll buy your argument. i’ve been looking for one since 2004 but cant seem to find it . honestly . i’m worried too , so do help me out here
Tim i don’t know if this site is legit or not but the net figures for the last 5 season are completely different to what you said:
http://transferleague.co.uk/
It is a lot more, but obviously not 25 times.You say that we never won the title without spending the most money.I think that we didn’t spend the most money when we won it with kids in 96 and neither did we spend the most money in 06-07(a season which saw Ballack and Shevchenko arrive at OT).Arsenal have always had to overcome the adversity of spending less money.No doubt about that.The question Arsenal fans have to ask is why that has stopped since 2005.Did the spending get THIS out of hand?You won the title unbeaten in Roman Abramovich’s first season,so obviously you can do it.Last season,it wasn’t Glazer’s money that stopped you from winning the title.Your team collapsed under the pressure.You drew at Birmingham while playing the whole game with a man up.I understand you had injury problems,but most teams do during a season.
As far as the stats are concerned,from 96 to 05, we have:
Wenger:8
Fergie:10
Draws:7
I am not counting Charity Shields of course.I don’t count it as a United trophy period.
In the end, i won’t convince you differently, but i will say that we all have to look in the mirror once in a while.Man United have spent money because they can afford it.Because barring the debts,even to this day they are one of the most profit-generating teams in the world.Again,are we supposed to apologise for that?I suppose that if Arsene Wenger had this money to his disposal he would turn it down wouldn’t he?
do you actually think david gill and the glazers are so daft that despite knowing we are in such a crisis , go out and repeatedly spend top bucks on good talent ?
also , have you ever taken into account how much money we make from WINNING competitions , unlike you lot ?
anant- if 700m is the figure thrown about and manu arent denying it, then its probably fairly accurate. id imagine that if it wasnt true theyd wanna move pretty quickly to deny it
And how can we spend money we don’t have if we make a profit every year?I don’t understand that?
pedro ,
you arent getting my point . fine – we do have debt . but we plan to ”re-finance” it . tell me where you have seen a quote saying we cant do that
Jonny
You are talking bollocks. What have we bought our players with- fresh air?
You know nothing about how our debt is structured so stop making assumptions from articles written by media hype.
We won the league in 2007 when we only bought Carrick for 18 mln. We outspend Chelsea that season but they already had everything – the players, the team, the manager. They were strong favourites but SAF built the team that won us the league. I doubt many gunners thought we would do it. But the moment came and now you tell us about our spending ? We bought players in the summer of 2007 after we earned the money from winning the Premiership and being in the 1/2 final of the Champions League. We earned the money – we spent it. It is the outcome of being successfull.
Looking back on the days you won the premiership can you show us some facts about the spending then ?
i think its obvious that arsenal couldve gone down the same route as you and got loads of debt/ foreign owner etc but decided against it because they viewed it as unsafe…
anat- i didnt get your point. sorry:D
Thats simple, you bring it however much in a financial year, you spend however much in a financial year. Obviously expenditure is less than income, so you make a profit. If none of that expenditure goes on decreasing your debt then you still make a profit for that year. This doesn’t mean your debt is decreasing though. In fact, the interest just makes it rise every year. Your income from winning trophies pays player wages and transfer fees, but if you buy a player now for £50 million and fail to win anything then the money you spent on him will be tacked onto your debt. Thus you don’t have the money.
@pedro: I don’t buy that.Are Manchester United in debt because of their spending?Of course not.We are in debt because the Glazers dumbed their debts on the club.I see the figure 700 million pounds thrown around.You know what the debt was before the Glazers came?0.
I will say this for the 10th time today.Before the Glazers came,United were one of the most healthy companies and could afford to spend whenever they wanted.It was all due to our financial structure.
”i think its obvious that arsenal couldve gone down the same route as you and got loads of debt/ foreign owner etc but decided against it because they viewed it as unsafe…”
translation -
arsenal didnt have the balls to do what you’ve done and are now repenting as a consequence .
i am pretty sure you would have been much happier being in our shoes WITH trophies + a STRUCTURED debt , rather than only a ”safe future” with repeated top 4 finishes to count on .
face it , you are only here because you’re jealous
er. i didnt say that. i said we couldve got a foreign owner to finance the spending. it was in reply to “I suppose that if Arsene Wenger had this money to (at?) his disposal he would turn it down wouldn’t he?” the answer being yes- he/arsenal did turn it down
How is your debt structured?
Jonny
Our debt will increase for the next two years.Thats how our borrowings have been structured. I don’t understand your point on how buying a player for £50 mill but receiving £80 mill for a sale can add £50 mill to debt.
im only here because im procrasinating- i should be revising. i really dont think i am jealous, although its hard to be objective. i think i hate manu players because theyre a bbunch of cunts not because they win trophies
my personal take on the glazers -
did not want them to take over initially . however time has proved they are the least interfering owners in the last 20 years . sir alex is happy with the board for the first time in his tenure . david gill is much more competent than kenyon or martin edwards .
i have enough reasons to feel we are in safe hands . if sir alex says they are good owners , thats enough for me
Jonny
£515 mill senior loan
£135 mill PiK
Because if none of that £30 million profit on transfers goes on decreasing debt then debt increases through interest. I don’t know your interest rate, but its probably £25-35 million per year. And that will be £30-40 million next year.
Yes, i pretty much understand everything.
You raise the ticket prices, earn 200+ mln per year and win fuck all!
pedro
yes, you hate ManU )) if we weren’t winning the trophies you wouldn’t even have been here
Jonny
we pay between 2-2.5% above Libor rate on our senior loan
14.25% on our PiK loan
@Pedro: Was a foreign owner ever really interested in Arsenal? I think that with the issue of the new ground on the table,things weren’t so clear for anyone willing to buy the club.But you know better than me.But i wasn’t talking about a foreign owner.I was saying something else.Say that Wenger was manager of United when it was a PLC and it was making more than it was spending.Would he opt not to make signings even if he could and it was 100% safe?I don’t think so.
@Jonny: I don’t know how the debt is structured, but i think that the Glazers are doing what you said above.Looking to make a profit on a yearly basis.That means that even if we didn’t win the title,the Berbatov money wouldn’t go to the debt.They always look to make a profit.That’s why they wouldn’t pay more than 20 million for Tevez. And if we sign Ribery for 50 million and win squat,that money won’t go to the debt.Because the Ronaldo transfer financed it and a yearly profit is again certain.
But if you ask me how they plan to deal with the debt, i have no idea.I really hope they have something in mind because they brought this upon the club.
14.25%? Ouch. But I guess as the payments in kind loan is secured against the Glazers then that won’t affect the club much.
From sky sports (one of the few trustworthy sites) :
“The more debt you have, the more vulnerable you can be if you suffer a revenue knock-off such as failing to qualify for the Champions League or in the worst scenario relegation.
“Having a higher debt is not helpful in those situations and you have to make sure you have some flexibility, and that places an onus on having flexibility around player wages.”
According to Deloitte, Manchester United’s debt stands at £649million and Liverpool’s at £299million, both sums stemming from loans taken out by the owners to finance takeovers. Arsenal’s £318million includes £250million in long-term bonds taken out to finance their new stadium.
The increase in wage levels may also cause raised eyebrows but they do not appear a major problem as they are slightly less than the rise in income from Premier League TV rights. As a result, the wages to revenue ratio improved slightly to 62% from 63% the year before.
Manchester United and Arsenal both paid out less than 50% of income in wages, and Liverpool 55%, but Chelsea’s ratio was 81%.
The wages-to-revenue ratio is more of a concern in the Championship where the average was 87%, with Hull City – who won promotion to the top flight – on 124% and Coventry on 121%.
Switzer added: “Despite the increase in wages, the Premier League clubs improved their wages to revenue ratio to 62% and generated record operating profits of £185million.
“However lower revenue growth in forthcoming seasons means clubs will have to focus on improving cost control – both wages and other operating costs – if profits are to be maintained.”
so , everyone is in debt . and we are handling it better than most . where is the problem ? i dont see us not qualifying for CL in the next 10-15 years at least .
Jonny
the 14.25% interest doesn’t have to paid, it is added to our debt each year which makes sense. When the Pik loan has to be paid then the club has the option to convert this into an equity share of the club. Therefore we wipe nearly £200 mill of debt in return for a 15% share of the club.
if wenger could make big signings while being 100% safe id hope that he would, yea. if you look at man city, portsmouth etc getting bought id have thought that arsenal who have better players, a better manager, better history, better support etc. would be more attractive so i assume that theres probably some mega rich dude who’d wanna buy it
Anant the problem is that we are not dealing with the debt. We are just trying to keep it from rising as much as possible.Even the Ronaldo money wouldn’t have helped matters.I don’t know what the solution is.A new takeover perhaps?
@ rc7
debts are put on the club but i know that Glazers have 2 other franchises.
If the problem arrives they can always sell for example Tampa Bay and focuse on the club.
It’s a little simplified but ..
Pedro
03/04:
Chelsea spent £153,450,000
United spent £53,150,000
04/05:
Chelsea spent £59,850,000
United spent £27,000,000
05/06:
Chelsea spent £111,900,000
United spent £20,000,000
06/07:
Chelsea spent £12,000,000
United spent £18,600,000
(United win the league despite spending £218.25m less than Chelsea)
Spending £6m more than Chelsea the season before we won the league doesn’t make up for the extra £200m+ over the three years before.
My layman understanding of the whole scenario is :
Our debt is not Man united’s debt , it is the glazers’ debt . they didnt borrow from the holding company , unlike liverpool , whose debt is their own
So we agree on that Pedro.I am also fairly certain that someone would want to buy Arsenal.I am not informed about this,but are Arsenal in the stockmarket?If they are,someone could buy them out from that avenue.That’s how the Glazers bought the club.If Arsenal are not in the stockmarket,it’s up to the chairman and whether he wants to sell.But i agree with you.Why let someone buy the club when you are not certain how he will affect the club?
Aha. There is Man City whose owner is mega rich.
We have owners who have debts. what is the difference ?
They can spend whatever they want and don’t bother. But the time will come and the owner will ask for trophies. The difference is that they don’t have debts but the idea is still the same.
Scott the Red, exactly.
Costas . no one knows for sure mate . as the report suggests , we are dealing with our wage system in a very prudent manner . like i said before, as long as sir alex or the boardroom dont have a problem with the debt , we shouldn’t…
scott seeing all those numbers made my head hurt, i confess i didnt read them but the bit at the bottom seems true. i guess the difference between you and chelsea is they have a bit more money and you have a better manager. the difference between you and arsenal is you have more money thanks to your possibly more risky debt situation.
i dont actually know about arsenal on the stockmarket:D hopefully not? are you saying the same could happen to us?
Pedro – over 6 years, they’ve spent £167.45m more than us. That’s not them having just “a bit more money”. They have a shit load more than us and that title win in 2007 came when they’d spent hundreds of million more than us.
So money isn’t the be all and end all. You can be totally outspent but still achieve more if you have the right players and the right manager. United have proven that with Chelsea.
Just 1 question… Why have we never been given one of madrids players in return??????????? We have given themabout 4 of our former world class players and in return we have never been abl to take one of their stars! Just doesnt make sense if u ask me!
United’s net spending over the last 5 seasons is 86 million plus. (apparently) is that 170m less than utd? (not rhetorical:D) also i suppose you started off with the better squad to begin with
@pedro
Its not how much money you’ve got its how you spend it which is down to the manager. Wenger is one of the best managers around but he hasn’t invested in the right areas recently which he has finally admitted.
Fucking gooner cunts still whining about there shit team and twat of a manager…….. trying to dish up all sorts of bollocks to try and justify their lack of success…… simple really …. they are shit !!
listen every1 here on this site is a supporter and will get absolutely nothing from the sale of ronaldo. 4get profit u want to see success for your team and the fact is that it will be less likely for man united 2 get success without ronaldo so any1 sayin good business- unless ur the glazers or the bank owed that 700 million it is bullshit. not good business in that the boy is the best player in the world and indispensible. man u fans are talking bout all these new signings but at the end of the day u can only have 11 players on the pitch and that 11 simply not as good without ronaldo. i mean we had henry a fukin great player playing UPFRONT- ronaldo scored 46 from midfield. i rest my case
We sold Beckham – end of a era – had shitloads of ABUs on about how United were finished.
Sold Ruud – end of a era – had shitloads of ABUs on about how United were finished. never be able to replace his goals.
When we sold Ince Hughes and Kanchelis, Cantona retired again same thing end of era whoopie.
Fuck the list is endless – many players have left and had the ABUs rejoicing.
What happened? A shitload of disappointed ABUs – that makes it oh so sweet.
Sir Alex is the best manager bare none. He has always replaced changed or adapted.
to all you ABUs truly enjoy yourselves and have a great summer dreaming and prepare to be disappointed next May again when SAF lifts more trophies.
Me personally think SAF likes to buy tried and trusted EPL proven players. We need a CM – Fabergas and a forward – Torres. thats about £80 million there end of business
Aresnals Fabled Youth team/system is a bag of shit. They buy/nick their youth players from other teams youth systems. Who was the last truely Arsenal youth to come through your system that you hadn’t nicked from someones else’s system? And before you go off about Macheda i dodn’t class him as coming from our youth setup.
good luck gettin fabregas hes no mercinary like all yours. he hates the mancs and would never join you
Of course Cesc “it would be a honour to play for Barca again” would never jump ship. Bullshit. end of season he was saying what a fabulous club United are,best team in the world etc.
He must be dreaming of actually being a winner for a change. He is probably looking forward to another personally good season ahead and not being a winner again.
A big enough offer and the Arsenal willbite our hand off. At least if that happens then all you gooners can come oin here and say how much profit you made and how it was so much more than United made on CR7.
elz gooner – 46 from “midfield”? Check your facts pal.
Off topic – Where the fuck is Gotta hate tiny tears/tevez? He hasn’t posted since 11 July.
King Eric the last time he posted was when he gave us his latest vid of Emily singing the Park chant.Just minutes before the Ronaldo news broke.
Believe what you might, but my opinion is that Wenger was never given the money, because all the money goes to repaying your stadium and the fact that they have not won anything to boost extra income is the main source of their problems. So who is at fault? Wenger
haha i think the gunners fans are lame becos they have to use Real Madrid to get to us.. their own team is shite hahahahahahah
some of them even found being feeder club for barca is something of a success.
feel pity for you gooners..
as for the transfers, ffs, it’s all about money!
dont care if we feed them…as long as they pay hell lot of money. ron is going there, sooner rather than latter. so 80 mill is not a bad business.
so what next? i prefer a new type of CF. maybe edin dzeko will fit the bill…..
bergkampisgod – you are a total cunt. If we are are Real Madrids feeder club based on the amount of players we have sold there, then by your logic, you must be Barcelonas feeder club. Let’s look at the facts shall we dickhead.
We have sold 4 players to Real Madrid and only Ronaldo has expressed a desire to go there. Beckham and Ruud were sold to Madrid after Fergie had enough of them and had no intention of selling them to another Premiership club. Heinze was sold there to prevent him from going to Liverpool.
Let’s look at all the players that have left Arsenal to join Barcelona.
Petit, Overmars, Sylvinho, Hleb and Henry. All of whom joined Barca out of choice as they felt that they had more to offer than Arsenal, especially the opportunity of winning the European Cup, a decision that was vindicated by the latter 3 in the list.
Feeder club? Doubt it, only Ronaldo has been sold to them in his prime(to be honest I really don’t even think he’ll achieve his 42 goal feat in ANY league again). RVN was past it and wanted to leave, Heinze was also past it, Beckham too had had his best years behind him, all the while making £100m+ along the way.
And really don’t blame the Arsenal fans, after going from our closest rivals to being 3/4th favourites in the league, they’ve got to hold on to something like how they’re more debt free and how Wenger runs them on a tight budget, which has reaped its rewards.