I don’t think it says anywhere in the rules that a foul is soley defined by how hard you hit the opposing player. Just looking at the explanation for direct free kicks, from Fifa’s laws of the game, shows that Van Persie is actually right in thinking pushing is an offence. Note that using excessive force is only one of the criteria by which a free kick may be given

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent

Or commits (one of) the following offenses:

* Holding an opponent
* Spitting at an opponent
* Handling the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area).

There is of course a simular explanation for indirect free kicks of which the following are relevant to an outfield player;

When any player in the opinion of the referee:

* plays in a dangerous manner
* impedes the progress of an opponent
* prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
* commits any other offense, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player.

I think the seious debate should centre on whether it is acceptacble to exaggerate the effects of an offence rather than risk the referee missing it?

In all sports there are techniques and tatics taught to players that are designed to ‘transgress’ the line that the rules try and draw. Of course defenders will try and impose themselves on an attacker and will give him little nudges or kicks when he has the chance. Is it right that this should remain hidden from the officials where possible and just be accepted as part of the game, or is it legitimate for a player to highlight these incidents, which are by definition foul play?

It’s quite a hard question and that is why we have so many incidents that create strong feeling on both sides. My own feeling is that we just have to accept a lot of it as bringing some interest and passion to the game. I think we already have the solution of punishing players heavily if it is clearly obvious the opposing player has not been careless or reckless in a genuine attempt to defend and yet the player goes down.

I think the Eduardo incident is exactly where I am coming from. Every replay and angle showed the goalkeeper trying to do the correct thing. There did not appear to be any contact and the player wasn’t forced to jump over any trailing arms or legs that may have impeded or injured him.

The goalkeeper made obvious attempts to remove any unfair impedement to Eduardo’s progress and yet the player chose to go down in a manner very clearly designed to indicate there had been unfair contact. It might be he thought the contact was coming, but that is where the softness and cowardice part of other contributors comments to this thread really does kick in and is entirely valid.

So I am letting Persie off this one. I don’t like seeing exaggeration, especially when it seems tha aim is to get another player a card. The other side though is the constant niggling fouls, shirt pullings, pushes, jumping all over players, holding a player, all things we see every week and that often are aimed at preventing a chance on goal. Is it fair that these should be missed and just written off as acceptable contact in a man’s game?

All divers are wankers and refs should stamp it out

I take your point but is it not fair to assume that it is a genuine foul if it brings you down and if it does not bring you down then it was just a tough challenge ?

If you are touched on the leg and deliberately fall to the ground when you did not need is that a dive or are you just making sure that the ref sees that you were touched? Contact is initself not a foul if the contact is severe enough to bring you down then it is a foul.

If we can distinguish between ball to hand and handball then we should be able to distinguish between contact being made and a player being fouled.

Sadly that’s how it is now. Defenders try to cheat by fouling the player in ways the referee can’t easily see, every one is cheating in their own way, so you have to fight your corner.

Remember our penalty vs. Arsenal? If Rooney didn’t fall like that he would not have got a penalty – it was a clear foul but Rooney made sure the ref saw it. That is all van Percy is saying, regardless of what you think of him

Morning mate. “At least hes being honest”

He is being “honest” about being dishonest. That is hardly a redeeming feature.

Same old Arsenal always cheating – but they are alright because they admitted to cheating?

Fuck him – cheating bastard.

Not to worry. You can be assured that those YouTube clips will lay dormant until after England are eliminated in South Africa. The vitriol can then be unleashed.