With Danny Welbeck set to return to Manchester United following his loan spell with Sunderland and Michael Owen having signed a new contract, rumours have been rife about Dimitar Berbatov’s future.
Earlier in the week, there were claims that the club had agreed a deal with PSG for the Bulgarian, although these have since been refuted.
The player’s agent, Agent Emil Danchev, claims talks are needed with David Gill, with Berbatov keen to extend his current deal which has just 12 months remaining. “We’ll know more after we have talks with United, but Berbatov wants to stay and to keep winning trophies.”
Berbatov was the Premier League’s top scorer last season, although there are suggestions that United aren’t keen to offer him another big contract after he lost his place in the starting XI to Javier Hernandez.
Earlier in the season, Berbatov claimed he would rather quit football than leave Manchester United.
“I fought to have a chance to play for United and now I can only go down if I leave,” he said. “Why I should do this? It would be better to retire.”
With Bayern Munich and Tottenham Hotspur also interested in signing him, it’s hard to believe Berba would actually quit football if not offered a new deal by United.
Sir Alex Ferguson has repeatedly shown his lack of faith in the Bulgarian when it comes to big games, with the biggest snub coming when he was omitted from the squad which faced Barcelona in the Champions League final. It looked as though there would be no going back for him then, although admirably, the player took the manager’s decision on the chin and again reaffirmed his loyalty to the club.
With Wayne Rooney’s predictable annual injury, as well as the less than consistent fitness of Owen and Welbeck, United could find themselves in trouble during the season if they don’t extend Berbatov’s deal.
The other option would be to let him see out his contract, although after spending £30m on his four years earlier, the club would be reluctant to allow him to leave on a free.
Man Utd News 24/7
I hate to say it but Berba’s days do seem to be numbered.
I suppose I’d rather him leave this summer for £10m than next season on a free, although I hope Berba doesn’t leave at all of course!
Can we not just get rid of Owen instead please!
If he’s as good as some people on here like to claim he is, all the top clubs in the world would be after him. Have a nice time at Paris Saint-Germain, Berba. Thank you for this season and the 19th league title.
Let’s see if he makes good on his promise to retire.
He’ll go down as one of the toppest reds ever if he does.
@Fred,
You dont think Bayern Munich and Inter are top clubs?
…
Extremely talented player, but to succeed at Utd, you need that something more. Don’t think Berba’s got that, and Fergie seems to think so as well.
The last 2 paragraphs sum it up for me.
Unfortunately, I’ve been dreading Berba will leave ever since Owen’s contract got renewed. Oh well. At least he’ll leave having proved the haters wrong.
@Anomader – let’s just see where he ends up.
I get depressed whenever I read about Berba’s dilemma..He’s a confidence player so if this contract issue isn’t sorted before pre-season starts then Berba will be an absolute wreck..Hopefully everything works out for him..
I have said this time and time again, the decision to resign owen’s contract ahead of berbs is still a strange one. No offence to Owen, he is past his sell by date, how many games will Owen get? While berbatov is going to get a hell of allot more playing time, and he will score and create chances. We already have hernandez who will be the vocal point of our attack, there is no need to keep Owen. Maybe young is the berbatov replacement.
It’s so strange that when he finally started to deliver for us, Fergie decided he’d had enough of him.
…
…
…
We can all type “…”, T4M – what’s your fucking point?
He cant leave next summer for free as UTd have a 1 year option on his contract, earliest he could walk would be the end of the 2013 season.
@Fred
He will be at United next season.
If he does leave, it will be the 3rd time in the last 5 years that our top scorer for the season left the club that same summer. Ruud in 06 and Ronaldo in 09 were the other two.
I think Berba is going to be on that sort of rolling contract that United specifies for 30+ players.
I cannot imagine Berba going anywhere.
However, I couldnt imagine Owen in the squad ahead of Berba for the final either.
Damn.
offer him 2 years already
Frankly, I wont be too disappointed if he leaves, not because is he is not good enough.
But because I dont think we deserve him.
Costas – it could have been 4 if we added rooney.
@ FITB
I don’t think the decision to keep Owen was strange. Fergie has obviously made his mind up that Welbeck has earned the right to be 3rd choice striker. He’s done his loan spells, he’s got Premier League football under his belt, he wasn’t gonna come back unless the Boss told him he’d be next in line if Rooney/Chicha got injured.
So then you’re looking at Berba potentially being 4th choice. He won’t be happy with that, and neither will the money men, 90k a week for a 4th choice? Whereas Owen comes far cheaper, and unlike Berba, will be happy at having a limited role.
Everyone says Berba is a confidence player who needs regular games, he’s not like Solskjaer (or even Owen). At the same time, everybody agrees he most probably won’t get regular games now that Rooney & Chicha are established as the main partnership. So how does it make sense to keep him?
Sparkz – I can’t imagine the gafffer selling our top goalscorer because ‘he could do more’. What else could he do mate? He wasn’t signed to run around and close players down. When he’s left on the bench he doesn’t moan, there’s no fuss. If we wanted to create a fuss now would have been the perfect time for him to do it – but still he stays dignified.
If there’s something going on behind the scenes then I guess we’ll find out later on – but from what most people can see – he is doing his job in black and white format…he’s scoring goals!!!
—
June 23, 2011 at 20:50
AnomanderRake says:
Frankly, I wont be too disappointed if he leaves, not because is he is not good enough.
But because I dont think we deserve him.
—
HAHAHA
Berbatov is not going anywhere. He’s going to stay at United, probably for another three 1 year extensions.
I have to get out of here, this is too much to take.
Sparkz – I disagree, owen is still strange keeping him. Every side needs a bit of everything. And rooney hernandez and berbatov gives united different things. Hernandez for me is still developing, he aint the finished article yet, and if he was yes losing berbatov wont be that bad. But owen and hernandez could not play together, so it seems pointless keeping both, at-least rooney and berbatov are players who can do something out of complete nothing. And either combinations everyone would feel comfortable with, berbatov is still well ahead of welbeck who we do not know if he will make it or not
Please don’t do it fergie. please give Berba the assurance he needs. superb player who must not leave United.
Rai- Ruud was scoring goals, but the gaffer sold him. Saha brought more to us in terms of his all round game.
Same situation applies to Berba I think. He played a tremendous part in us getting #19 with his goals…but at the same time, I think we look a far better, more fluid side without him. Add to that his tendency to fluff his lines in the pressure situations, and the high wage for a back up- you can see Fergie’s thinking.
FITB- Of course Welbeck isn’t at Berba’s level yet. But it’s a chicken and egg argument. He needs the experience and game time to prove if he is, simple as that. A season as our 4th choice striker is no good for him IMO.
Whether he stays of goes, I’ll always love the fact that he never bitched when our own fans got on him or when he got benched for The Pea.
Classy player and a great example for the younger ones.
Hope he stays.
Would be gutted to see him gone, but this club isn’t build on sentimentals and never will be.
Sparkz – You don’t think Ruuds attitude was the reason he was sold? No way would Fergie have sold Ruud if he accepted being a squad player. Ruud wanted first team football all the time – as in first choice – top man and nothing else. Berba accepts his role in a squad, does a good job and yet that isn’t good enough?
Sorry mate but unless there’s another issue – this fuckin stinks.
>>>^^^
Rai- but why was Ruud dropped from the first team in the first place? Wasn’t a great fit with our style of football, similar to Berba.
I agree that Berba would accept a role as a back up…but I refer you to the wage issue. A decade ago, if someone had told you that Ole was the third highest earner at the club, it would seem ridiculous. Especially when we’re most likely to buy a central midfielder who’ll demand similar wages, and will play more first team football!
As I also said- Welbeck needs to be 3rd choice this season if we’re serious about him. I repeat, a season of being 4th choice at Utd would do him no good.
As for there being some behind the scenes issue- I can’t see there being a falling out between the Boss and Berba- he’s not that type of guy, a proper gentleman as many have said. Could be what I said earlier- berba’s tendency to shrink in the big games, something which grates with Fergie?
Look football is a TEAM game and all players are important. However some on here are trying to turn this into a war between Owen and Berba. I’m sorry but this is totally unneccesary as both have an equal right to be at the club. To me it is obvious why Owen was given a contract extension. Experience is vital and don’t forget we have lost Gary Neville, Edwin Van Der Sar and Paul Scholes all of whom helped provide that much needed experience. You also have to remember the young players in the squad. The likes of Welbeck, Jones and Macheda that will all benefit from playing and training with the likes of Owen and Giggs. Please allow the manager to do his job and have a little more faith in him he hasn’t let us down yet.
I am a Berba fan. But he is the most prized asset we have and doesn’t really fit with the fast break style that Fergie seems to be bustling to put together. Think that Berba is too prized an asset to have sitting on the bench as well.
Berbatov is one classy player and will only wish him the best if he stays or goes. hope he will stay, be very sad if he goes.
What was it you say? 2 hat tricks and then 5 v Blackburn, in one season is it? Golden boot ya say?! And then he was sold!? Naw, that just can’t be right!
At the risk of repeating a previously penned poem which I am sure you lads have committed to memory.
. . . A Hat trick home to Liverpool, Dimitar Berbatov is a RED.
Sparkz – Berba hasn’t changed his style of play from four years ago, so why would the boss have bought him if he didn’t think this style would match or give a different option?
Unless you think the boss reckons he made a mistake? Even if that was the case, he would have sold him last year or the year before – instead of waiting for him to start scoring more regularly!! You can’t even say the boss reckons now is the time to cash in, because the figures that are being branded about (£10m) could easily have been reached in the last two years.
As for big games, he’s not played in all of them so that’s not fair to say. For me, a hattrick against Liverpool isn’t bad as far as big performances go!!
Not every player this season has consistantly performed in big games – but it doesn’t mean we’ll sell them.
As for his wages, he’s worth every penny when you consider how many games Rio plays..
I don’t know if anyones turning this into a Berbatov vs Owen debate. I hope the berb will stay, but wouldn’t be surprised if he left. He helped United win the 19th title last season. We should be thankful for that at least.
Hes a great guy and real red. Hope he stays, but it has to make sense too.
Rai- Tbh, I think Fergie does think he made a mistake. He probably expected Berba to fit in better than he has done. He could’ve cashed in on him last year but decided to give him another chance (mainly I think because nobody expected Hernandez to rise as fast as he did, so it was important we kept him)
The big games, I’m sorry but that Liverpool hat-trick aside (which was brilliant)- he generally doesn’t produce the goods when we really need him to step up. And that is what you pay £30m for IMO. I could give many examples, but just over the last year……I remember Chelsea at OT. Rooney had done his ankle in, it was a top of the table clash….we really needed him to step up, and he didn’t. It’s not just the missed chances, but the overall shift- once he starts missing, he gets sulky and disappears. That game vs Chelsea was so poor that SAF would rather risk a half fit Rooney vs Bayern a few days later.
The week after that- Blackburn away. High pressure game, we had to win to keep our title hopes alive. No Rooney, we needed him to step up, and again he didn’t. I repeat- it’s not just the misses, but the overall shift.
Man City this season was probably the final straw. FA Cup semi at Wembley vs your local rivals- doesn’t get much bigger than that. Rooney out, Chicha on the bench- it’s games like that where you need him to step up. And again, when the heat was on, he disappeared.
As for Rio, it’s down to how the Boss views you. Rio’s appearances are down to injury- when he’s fit, Fergie still sees him as a first teamer. Berba is usually fit as a fiddle, yet Fergie still doesn’t see him as a first teamer. Rio ain’t the one who didn’t make the bench for Champions League final. So it’s pretty simple- one’s seen as a first teamer when fit, the other isn’t.
It looks to me as if SAF is going to try and recreate the highly moile and pacey forward linew we had when Tevez and Ronaldo were in the team. Hernandez Young Rooney and Valencia all offer that — and along with Nani there are players who can operate on either wing or through the middle — with Hernandez as the focal point obviously. I can’t much as I love him, see where Berbatov whould fit in to such a system — he has great technique, brilliant vision and all the rest of it — but no-one can deny he is happier taking the ball with his back to goal, and he can slow down the play. I’d love it though if Berba turned out to be Scholes replacement.
If we sell Berba, for the first time in my 26 years of worshiping this club, I’d be ashamed to be a United fan.
Not only should Berba be retained, but either he or Wazza should be given an AMC role so that all 3 can play. As it is, there are hardly any players in the team who can hold the ball up consistently – not a bad idea to have at least one who effortlessly can.
And what’s the basis of all this Wazza/Chicha taking precedence over Berba? There are ppl here who can try to piss as much as they can on his Golden Boot, but the fact remains that Berba was our top scorer – in fact EPL’s top scorer. As of now, he should be the first name on that team-sheet. So the 2nd spot should be between Wazza and Chicha in all fairness.
Then, tramp you are not a United fan, 26 years confused.
Someone SuperStamp on that supertramp!
As far as I’m concerned money doesn’t come into it but if United decide he goes then I hope they are prepared to accept no money as he has stated he would rather retire from football than not play for United.Now that’s loyalty and good on him it would be a travesty if they tried to push him out.
@Denise Williams
so your point being what exactly? Berbatov doesn’t have anything to pass on to youngsters? The top goal scorer in the EPL has nothing to offer to the younger players?
I’m driving and on my blackberry don’t know who said it a early comment couldn’t believe someone said berba doesn’t have what it takes to make it at utd.
He was top scorer and had 7 match winners,but no he doesn’t have what it takes one of the dumbest fucking things that been said on rom,can’t believe I read that what a fucking joke
A player of Berba’s calibre and quality does not deserve to warm the benches..I used to love watching him play for Spurs and I would pay to watch him play now..The guy’s truly an exquisite artist..If he is sold then I hope its to a proper club because this guy deserves a CL medal by the time he finishes his career..
Wayne- you might be referring to my comment
And yeah tbh, I’d stand by that. He was great this season, but if he was to leave tomorrow, would you class his 3 seasons here as a success overall? You’re acting like he’s been scoring 25 goals every season he’s been here. Not saying he isn’t a top player, but at Utd you need something else, it’s probably more of a mental thing with him tbh.
As well as he did this season, at Utd you need to stand up and be counted in the big games as well.
@Sparkz
” Not saying he isn’t a top player, but at Utd you need something else,”
What else do you need?. The guy is top class player with better ball skills than anyone in the squad bar paul scholes. I don’t remember anyone screaming their head off when OGS wasn’t highest goal scorer in the league or Rooney/Tevez not topping the scoring charts. I’m not referring to you personally but i think a lot of United fans think if the player isn’t running around like a headless chicken or isnt a speedy gonzalez type player he’s no good for us. We can’t rely on pace all the time and the sooner we start to accept that we need players of different characteristics the better
@wayne
err it might be a good idea to focus on the driving fella, i don’t want to log out of my mail box tomorrow and see you as a headline on yahoo news page, accident on the motorway and all. I’m with you on the “he doesn’t have what it takes to play at United” argument though. No way he’s not good enough IMO
Slim- I’m not referring to his talents mate. In terms of talent, he’s sublime. But so was Veron. When I say you need something more, I was talking more mentally. I suppose, like Veron, you could also argue that it just didn’t work out because he and the rest of the team didn’t integrate.
As for the headless chicken stuff, I agree. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, you do need variety. And I’ve already said that I’d keep him in the squad because he gives us a different dimension. But 90k a week for someone who’s not a first teamer, just coz they give another option?
In terms of the first team- we have a certain way of playing and I think it’s clear Berba doesn’t always fit in with it. The fact that the likes of Rooney and Carrick seem to operate better without him is testament to that. Unless you’re suggesting we build our whole team around him and his style of play. I always say, no matter who we sign- THEY need to fit in with Utd.
Sparkz – so in all those games where we failed to win – the blame lies with Berba because of his price tag? How much was Rooney? Rio? When we don’t perform and they’re in the team, they don’t get half as much stick. It’s a team effort. They take the glory together, they should take the blame too. We can’t say he’s not good enough because of a price tag that we paid.
Like I said, he wasn’t bought for his work rate – and now that he’s leading scorer people are clutching at straws looking for other reasons as to why he’s “not good enough”
@Sparkz takes some players a couple of seasons to settle,I think berba is one of the best strikers in the world and if wants to stay imo utd would be mad to sell him for 10 mill,can’t replace that kind of class,I think he makes utd a better side simple as that
June 23, 2011 at 20:50
AnomanderRake says:
Frankly, I wont be too disappointed if he leaves, not because is he is not good enough.
But because I dont think we deserve him.
June 23, 2011 at 22:14
supertramp says:
If we sell Berba, for the first time in my 26 years of worshiping this club, I’d be ashamed to be a United fan.
Welcome to the Berba-cult. Utterly bizarre.
More than anything im just glad he won the golden boot and scored an important hat trick against liverpool in our 19th title winning season. Thats fucking Huge for any United Striker.
Will he stay or go? I don’t think we’ll let him go with 12 months left on his contract, I think he’ll get another Season and I hope im right. TBH I’d feel a lot better if Rooney Hernandez and Berbatov remained our main 3 strikers, and Welbeck gets games wherever he can. Alex ain’t dumb, Hernandez forced his way into the Team so its not like keeping Berbatov will hold back Danny. Our Welbeck has years ahead of him and having 3 players of that calibre ahead of him can only improve his game. Owen will stay on the bench, its Kiko im thinking about – he needs to go on loan in England and start scoring, because he isn’t ready to start ahead of Welbeck or even Owen.
Rooney, Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck. With four competitions and fuck knows how many games I don’t think four strikers is too much. Berbatov will stay.
@ Rai- You’re accusing me of things I haven’t said.
I never said the blame for any of those results lies solely with Berba. And if you read my earlier post to Slim, you’ll see that I’m not criticising him for any perceived lack of work rate either.
The fact is, when the heat’s on, when we really need him to step up on the big occasions, he generally doesn’t turn up. As I’ve said- it’s not just the fluffed chances, but the overall performances as well.
I could give you countless big occasions where Rooney and Rio have produced the goods for us. You can’t say the same for Berba.
FIVE ACROSS THE MIDDLE AND BERBA ALONE UP FRONT AND WE WOULD AT LEAST HAVE STOOD A CHANCE IN THE CL FINAL.
The one thing missing from Berba`s game has been a creative midfielder capable of putting the balls through the middle that he thrives on. The same applied to Macheda on the starts he had – always found a yard or two of space but never received a decent pass.
THE BERB MUST NOT GO
Sparkz – 90k a week you say is too much for a “back up striker”. So you’d prefer to get someone in as a back up player for what..40-50k a week even though they won’t be as good? What difference does it make to you if we pay a little extra AND HAVE A BETTER PLAYER in the squad?! We’re not under pressure to trim our wage bill to the extent where we start selling players because of it.
We won’t get a player as good and as humble as him, if there is one please advise.
@Sparkz
you raise some good points i’ll admit, i actually think his days are numbered. I’d call his time here somewhat successful but he probably hasn’t “gelled” entirely, that could be his fault though. The way i see it United won’t want him going away for free, if he were a United product it would be different matter. As it is the mans future is up in the air. SAF has already made up his mind and i’m in no position to vehemently question his decision but i’d rather he gave a contract extension to Berba and let Owen leave because lets face it we can get one more season out of Owen and that would probably be it. Any more than that and he’ll be unashamedly milking the United coffers. I mean sitting on the bench well over 30 picking up a cheque every week surely must be taking the piss
Between the headless chickens and the skinned cats, sparkz are certainly flying!
Sparkz – I might have misinterpreted it mate but you said “it’s not just the misses, but the overall shift”, by that comment I assumed you meant his work rate.
What do you think will be the main benefit in selling him?
Spot on Sir Shaggsy
The fact a player like Berbatov scored so many goals with our makeshift midfield shows his character, because he wasn’t playing his usual game to score them. I think he’ll have his best season with Young in the team because that final ball your talking about, from the final third INTO the box where Berb is waiting, has been non-existant for us for at least 2 seasons. Everything for us has been coming from ether flank and thats not really Berbatovs game, tbh he’s a more technical footballer then that, he wants to pivot and shoot or been found in space. I hope he stays just so we can see him at his VERY best before he goes.
Rai- considering the midfielder we sign is most likely gonna be demanding a similar wage ( signs are we’re going for a proven, established player) – I think it may be an issue yes. And I also think Welbeck needs to get more football than he’ll get by being 4th choice- and I’m fairly sure he wouldn’t have turned down week in week out football at Sunderland unless SAF said he’d be 3rd choice.
I personally think that with Rooney, Chicha, Welbeck, Owen, plus Young able to operate there- we should be okay. Owen will be just as happy as Berba to be a benchman- and to be quite honest, more reliable in a big game (him being on the bench vs Barca shows that)
Slim- The thing is, if he gives an extension to Berba- to say 2013- where does that leave Welbeck. Rooney and Chicha being ahead of him is fine- but if he knows Berba’s gonna be ahead of him for TWO more years – he’ll probably move on. And I’d be gutted if that happens, it’s been a while since we’ve produced a striker of our own and it’d be a shame to lose him, especially if its essentially in favour of a 30 year old.
Owen would happily sit behind Welbeck in the pecking order, and as for him milking the coffers, he’s on a very basic wage. I agree that he probably won’t be here after 2012- but by that time hopefully Macheda will have got a loan season under his belt.
If he stays he destined to only be a bit part player. I would rather some youth be brought up instead. Thanks for the 3 years Dmitar, but all mediocre things have got to come to an end.
Another point- people say Berba needs regular game time etc. Yet I think many people agree Rooney & Chicha are ahead of him. So he won’t get regular game time and it’ll affect his game.
Someone like Owen I think can go a few weeks without playing yet still make a good impact when called upon.
Smartalex- with puns like that, you’ve gotta be working for a tabloid soon!
@pipzor..”mediocre things”..Yeah his 21 goals were absolutely insignificant…Yeah sell the poor bastard I say..He did nothing this season..
Sparkz – the point was made earlier that Welbeck will benefit from learning from Berba – he can’t expect just to be 3rd choice striker it doesn’t work like that. You’re given your position on merit. Welbeck could become first name on the teamsheet one day who knows – but we can’t just say someone is first, second, third choice etc. Hernandez proved that theory bollocks last year and that was because of his performances. Welbeck has to fight for a spot just like everyone else. If Berba can accept that, than Danny will.
@Fred
… and here I thought that the loud noise was the door hitting you on your way out.
Pipzor – mediocre is a term we can all use to describe your post. Stuck up prick. Come on genius what’s your solution??
@Anomander – no it was the door hitting Berba on his way out of Old Trafford, muahahahaha!
We should be keeping him, experience is key, and he will be good to have around. Will depend on money though, if he wants 90k p/w he will have to leave.
Never been a big fan, but always thought he was a good player, but not a world class player. Yes he scored a lot of goals, but 13 came in 4 games right? All at home too. Away from home frankly he was shite, and any big games apart fro Liverpool he bottled. You can’t live off that forever at Utd.
Still, defo worth keeping at the club, Welbeck isn’t good enough for Utd, and if Rooney got injured long term, we would be in big trouble without Berbatov to take his place.
When rooney was sucking shit and playing the selfish cunt berba carried the forward line,without him utd wouldn’t have won 19 and another thing he doesn’t rely on speed he’s all skill so age is irrelevant,its more than likely he’ll be as good at 34 as he is now.10 mill buys a team fuck all,he loves the club doesn’t mind playing second fiddle,he’s quality to me its a no brainer to extend his contract
Rai- Chicha only had Rooney & Berba ahead of him, so it was easier than it would be for Welbeck.
And you’re right, Welbeck has to fight for his spot, but he’s done what he’s been asked up until this point. He’s gone on loan for 2 seasons, learnt his trade, got Premier League experience. The only way he can now show he’s good enough is BY playing games- and whoever our 4th choice is will not get many games IMO, especially with Young being able to play up front. (that’s why owen is a better bet to be 4th choice- he doesn’t mind and he’s quite cheap)
It’s not like I’m campaigning for Joshua King to be given his chance. Welbeck’s done what he’s been asked, and I personally think he should be given a go now. I’m sure he’s got eyes on a Euro 2012 place as well, so he would’ve thought very carefully before coming back. If SAF said he’d be 4th choice, Welbeck would most likely have asked for another loan move this season, or even a permanent.
If we sell Ritchie De Laet, I will start looking for a new club.
For the life of me I can’t imagine Sir Alex ever telling anyone that they are third choice, or second or first for that matter. It seems to go completely against best practice.
You come, you play, you don’t play, whatever. Take the chances that you will be given, and you’ll probably get more chances. The only guarantee is that Sir Alex will do what is best for United.
Earlier on this thread we were told that top scorers have often been sold that summer. How can that be reconciled with guaranteeing 3rd place in a queue?
Smartalex- that’s a fair point actually, but top scorers have been sold in the summer when they themselves wanted to go (a la Ronaldo) or when they lost their place in the first team (a la Ruud)- which is the category Berba’s in IMO
And I take your point about Fergie not downright telling anyone theyre 3rd choice etc, thats very true. However, some things don’t need to be said, you can see the team sheet. We could see last season for example, in the last 2 months, that Berba was 3rd choice.
And according to Welbeck- SAF has told him he’ll get his chance this season. Personally, I feel that the Boss, although he didn’t outright say it, is thinking that Welbeck will be next up after Rooney and Chicha.
I think it would be silly to let him leave for just £10m without bringing in anyone else. He’s content with spending a lot of time on the bench and his great skill could save us in some matches…
Sparkz – It is clear that Berbatov won’t throw a fit if Danny starts before he does, but I don’t think it will happen initially. If Danny doesn’t force his way past Berbatov, but is given a pass, and then struggles, he will be disconsolate.
I have heard the opinion that Berbatov will play a role similar to Scholes’ recent years. I’ve also heard that it will be Giggs in that role. Interesting, but I’m not technical enough to analyse that abstractly; any thoughts?
bbabyj, you make a good point. How many results would Berba have to swing in our favour to warrant his cost. Surely 3 wins (that we wouldn’t have had), being worth 6 to 9 points, is likely the difference between first and second in the league.
@smartalex hi mate didn’t work that way last year,berba was scoring goals for fun and playing better than rooney,he didn’t deserve to be benched in the 1st place
Berba in a midfield role is something that has been bandied. Definitely has the technical aspect of it- ball control, passing, vision. Not sure if he has the mobility for it to work in THIS league though.
I could see him playing at the top of a diamond tbh. But only if the 2 wide men are not natural wingers like Nani and Valencia….but centre mids who’ll tuck in and make sure we ain’t over run in midfield.
So say Carrick as the DM…Fletcher and Anderson as the 2 guys either side…..and Berba as the AM at the top of the diamond. Could be interesting, but I can’t see Fergie abandoning the width and wing play that has been Utd tradition for decades
Wayne- might’ve been harsh on Berba to have been dropped in the first place, but the team comes first. And I think we played better as a team, in terms of being more fluid, when Chicha replaced him. Brought the best out of Rooney, Carrick etc as well
What makes you so sure that Rooney wont be culled when the club starts thinning the squad after the buying stops.
wayne hello mate!. Berba didn’t deserve to be dropped, and I’m sure Sir Alex was sad to do it, but these hard decisions have to be made, and SAF has the shoulders for it. Right or wrong.
I wouldn’t have dropped Dimi, and I’m gutted for him that he didn’t play in the Champions League Final, and get more time at the end of the season to ensure the Golden Boot. All credit to Berbatov for taking it so well.
I’m clear. Berbatov stays. Probably even for 3 more years.
Not sure of anything, can’t see it happening though tbh.
With high profile players like that, you’d hear stuff before it happens, and there hasn’t been a peep about him this summer.
If Berba does stay, which I can’t really see happening- it means we’re willing to take the hit on him and let him go for free next summer. Can’t see his deal being extended in all honesty.
parryheid
I haven’t thought once about Wayne being sold. It won’t happen.
Why? Wayne is too good to be sold, and he wants to be here.
Sir Alex said last year in regard to Rooney “We are not in the habit of selling our best players.”
Sparkz
Berbatov will not leave United on a free next year. He will stay on a year-by-year extension for as long as we will have him.
No matter how much money he’s offered elsewhere.
That’s from Berba’s point of view, he doesn’t wanna leave, he’d want his deal extended each year.
From the club’s point of view- will they keep him? Will they extend his deal. I can’t see him staying past 2012 max
Just my opinion of course
@Sparkz I was referring to smartalex saying there’s no peccking order and if a player takes his chance he’ll play
Yeah I know, I assumed you were talking about when Berba lost his place to Hernandez right?
wayne – you’re right that Berba took his chance last year, and was still dropped. Harsh.
Sparkz! Was that your opinion that you’ve been expressing? How dare you!
Just kidding!
Smartalex
When his best players hold a gun to the clubs head nothing Sir soon to be a lord AF does would surprise me.He has got previous with difficult players and from what I have seen over the years he manages to keep a grudge quite easily and Wayne boy has lost the power he had at that time the moment he renewed his contract albeit at a much inflated rate of pay the power returned to it’s rightful owner.Beware the stiletto in the ribs,mind you he may have mellowed, think the press would say that.
RVN didnt leave cause he lost his spot. He left cause fergie chose Ronaldo over him during their bust up.
parryheid
Sir Alex pulls no punches, if it’s required. In this case he will want Wayne to stay, and won’t get rid for any revenge or spite. I agree that Fergie pulled off a financial coup with Wayne signing the new contract. His trusting that Wayne would sign, and not getting it done before the WC, was looking like his worst money mistake ever. No matter! Somehow he pulled it out the fire. Now that we hold the financial reigns, and given that Sir Alex blames paul stretford , not Rooney, for the deceit, there is no way that we are losing such an important player.
Of course, anyone that crosses Sir Alex beware. I’m sure old boy Wes can vouch for that, among many other higher profile players such as Ruud, or Beckham, or even the BBC!
@Sparkz berba took his chance and still got dropped so there is a pecking order,also berba played well with hernandaz,going back to your very first point to say berba isn’t good enough for utd is just silly.you either don’t like him or your just trying to wind people up.
Sparkz – United should be able to afford a phew players with big wages on the bench, consider VDS scholes hargreaves and the possible departures of Bebe obertan brown and gibson. I think united can afford a couple of players wages to increase, consider the ronaldo transfer fee and the amount of money been gained over this season and over the past few seasons since 2009, berbatov’s wages should not factor any key midfield signing, or worry about key players warming the bench, if they want to play they got to play on top of their game. Unless united plan to use young rooney and hernandez has our possible key attacking forwards, and have owen and welbeck trying to break this attacking trio
I have this habit arghh few, not phew LOL
Well done fergie is the boss! You remembered!
Phew!
@ Wayne- trust me, its neither. I’ve said many times on this thread alone that I think he’s a top player and a top bloke. At no point did I say he’s not good enough for Utd, so no need to put words in my mouth. All i said was that to be successful at Utd, you need that something more- which I don’t think he’s got, and I stand by that. That’s not saying he aint good enough- coz he’s definitely talented enough to be part of our squad. But when you come to a club for £30m, you come in the expectation/hope that you’ll be a successful, regular member of the first team.
The fact is, over the 3 years, things just haven’t worked out for him overall. The fact that he finally got a good run of goalscoring last season yet STILL isn’t seen by Fergie as a regular first teamer proves that. Partly coz he doesn’t suit the way we play, partly coz he’s not always mentally strong enough. If he was on lower wages, or if the situation with younger forwards was different- he’d still be a quality squad player to have.
As for the pecking order thing- Berba started last season as part of the first choice strikeforce. And in my earlier post, I agreed with you- he was scoring goals and based on what HE was doing, didn’t deserve to get dropped in the last 3 months of the season. But I also said that its about the team- and the team generally played better without him. Even when he was partnering Chicha, we weren’t clicking properly. Only when Rooney & Chicharito were put together did we start to look more fluid.
I agree, quality individual but he is just a tactical nightmare to have, berbatov likes to find players out, but he cannot create space by stretching sides, especially united at their best are all about energy and great counter attacking football.
@ FITB- those last 2 lines is what I see happening tbh. I said it in another thread- we generally play with 2 centre mids- so there’s 4 places in the forward line up for grabs. Rooney is nailed on- and the 3 spaces around him will be between Nani, Valencia, Young, Chicharito and Welbeck (take your pick really lol!) I’m guessing that’ll be our core forward line- Park and Owen can also be part of that, but as squad players- I think they’ll play less games than the ones mentioned above.
As for the money situation- yeah we’ve trimmed our bill through sales & retirements, but its not like we ain’t replacing them. We’re signing players, and if the midfielder is a “big” name- his wages could be heavy. I’ll also go back to my point about Welbeck being given a prominet role- another reason why I see Berba moving on.
I’ve said it before though, this is all my opinion lol
The last 2 lines in your earlier post I should say- the one at 1.52!
Anyone remember 1999? We had 4 strikers. All played important parts in the Treble.
So what’s the problem now with being 3rd or 4th choice??
Different players perform differently.
Look at Barca. Small squad of players. Most of their key players played over 50 games last season and didnt suffer burnout. So is it a better system to buy fewer good players and have a smaller squad? Every player will get more match time and improve instead of warming their asses on the bench.
Look at Real and Shitty. They have more highly paid benchwarmers and see what they won?? A couple of lousy cups. And now face difficulty in offloading the deadwood because of high salaries.
People say The Berb’s style doesn’t fit our game. Yet his style was established before he joined us, and SAF must surely have known what it was. And SAF is far too wise of an old fox to buy a player already in his late 20s, and with such a unique and firmly established style, with the intention of getting him to change. If you want to mold a player to your way of playing, you buy him young. You don’t buy a guy who’s already established himself as a boxer, and try to turn him into a slugger, nor vice versa.
The conclusion I draw is not that the Berb has failed to adapt his style to our game, but that we have failed to adapt our game to his style. For surely, that must have been SAF’s intention. As to why it didn’t work, I don’t know, but I suspect that it’s fairly simple: for whatever reason, the chemistry between him and Rooney never worked out. Now, you can blame that on The Berb, or on Rooney, depending on who you like most, but to me, “chemistry” is just one of those things, a total imponderable.
But whatever. I still believe that The Berb brings something of value to our squad. To reuse Doghouse’s timeless description, “Berbatov when there’s a safe to be cracked, Hernandez when there’s a pocket to be picked.” They are different players, with different styles, and just as Berbatov seems ineffective in some matches,. so too does Hernandez. I won’t budge from my assessment that the key to winning the PL isn’t in getting the better of your primary rivals, it’s in maximizing points across the season against the mid to lower teams. To those guys, taking a point in any match against a top 6 team is like gold. And it’s against those teams, who stubbornly park the bus, that The Berb seems at his most effective — and Hernandez least effective.
So if all The Berb does is run around and bang hat-tricks and winners against the “workhorse” teams in the PL, I am happy with that. To me, that’s valuable beyond measure — because in the end, that’s where the PL is won or lost each year.
SmartAlex @ 0:38: “Berbatov will not leave United on a free next year. He will stay on a year-by-year extension for as long as we will have him.”
Lots of polarized comments but this is, I think, on the mark. Assuming that Dimmy wants to a part of a trophy-winning team AND would accept a lesser-role to do just that, then his wages aren’t a big issue from my perspective. Sure, he’d be getting a lot of money to sit on the bench or in the stands BUT he’d be real, quality insurance in case of serious injury to one of the front-liners. I think that the same argument holds with LittleMikey except that his wages are relatively small (note: “relatively small” !) and he’s now comfortable in a back-up role.
How long will UTD want to keep Berbatov ? A lot depends on Danny Welbeck and KikoTheKid – if they can convince SAF that they are ready-and-able to be real, quality insurance then Dimmy’s days would be numbered. But if they can’t do that then selling off Dimmy for a short-term injection of funds would be short-sighted. Very short-sighted.
In regard to SmartAlex’s comment, this scenario would give SAF the whip-hand in deciding whether to keep Dimmy (or LittleMikey) or cut him adrift. To me, that makes perfect sense.
StateSideAussie – tired of beers on the beach already ?
denton davey … nah mate, never get tired of that. But I thought I’d better stick my two bob’s worth in and stick up for Berba, before the nay-sayers manage to convince themselves he really is a useless, lazy, overpaid turd. Cheers!
“No Value in The Market”
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/udinese-tell-barcelona-man-utd-50m-now-sanchez-1714381http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/udinese-tell-barcelona-man-utd-50m-now-sanchez-1714381
@ Sparkz you are my new hero, taking on the Berba Man Love anti. A man crush so strong they produce juice. Is it wrong to think of Berba when I fuck my wife. Yes it is. Is it wrong to make my wife wear a paper cut out of Berbas face backwards while I go 4 wheel driven up her dirt road? Yes it is. I read all the time of I hate that people do this, think that, have a different opinion then mine (not directed at smartalex), well I hate this regurgitation of this same fucking subject, Berba BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!!no fucking shit like makes me ill just saying in general, imho, no one specific, no meanness meant. round UP all the daff cunts up determined by us the vocal minority and publicly castrate the stupid fucking cunts !!!! Who,s with me ??????
@StatesideAussie sounds like you loving being home. That is awesome. Sac town I did a marketing gig there in 1989 it was 105 in June they said it could last to Oct., I was like wtf and bought a house out by Placerville off the American River and went crazy white water rafting the 2 years I was there. Spent a lot of time in wine country our company had a condo in Napa. I had 2 uncles in San Francisco, and loved going there.
2 month Aussie walk about #14 on my bucket list.
…. wtf????
zibbie … you’re a funny guy, make me laugh. yeah, sac gets bloody hot, u were lucky it was only 105! But it’s nice here on the Gold Coast, think I’ll move back one day. Perhaps when CA property prices recover I can sell up and move home … but by then I’ll be 300 years old. Cheers mate!
Stateside I bought and sold like 5 times from 85 to 91 in Cal. Missed a hit in San Diego and lost just like 5 grand and did well with the others.
@ Stateside I have a friend if he fell in a pile of shit in a white tux, he would come out smelling like a rose and with out a spot on him. He sold in Brentwood, and Moved to AZ and was waiting to buy, his company leased a home for the 1 st year so he and his wife could find the right house. In the 2nd month there the market dropped he sold at the height and got what was like a 4 million $ place for 2 million in Scottsdale.
@Pipzor – you must be a 10 year old who has never played the game. If class smacked you in the face you wouldnt know it!
Berbatov is one of the most technically gifted players in the world and probably the best in the EPL. As someone pointed out in a previous post he has lacked someone on the same wave length to supply him.
Berbs scored 20 in half a season (the other half Chica played and scored almost as many) if Berbs was given more game he would have easliy scored another 5 – 10.
Surely SAF could play Berbs and Rooney in behind Chicarito and still have 2 out and out wingers, with a holding MF (Carrick or Fletcher).
I would still like to see a class MF (Nasri or Snieder) in so Berbs and Rooney could alternate in the attacking CF role with Chica.
IMO in the CL final we lacked someone who could hold the ball (Chicarito is not quite there in terms of strength to hold up ball) Berbatov should have been the one.
Berba should stay.He can play top football for 2 more years easily.People say he doesnt score against top teams.Guys how can he score goals against them from bench or from stands.
The league is won by performing well against every team and not only against top teams.He could have easily scored 30 goals if he was a regular.
Stop bashing berba.The guy is a class and should stay at united.
please dont take my berba away
in the home game against fulham,berbatov scored a goal and then produced a great assist for anderson who as usual fluffed his chance,and who was old trafford singing for?yes the hard working anderson.im puzzled by our fans attitude to berbatov.before pinning all our hopes on hernandez,lets wait for sometime before declaring him the next ruud.
hernandez too misses his fair share of chances,and has no skill on the ball at all and lacks composure.
home games in which berbatov started led to far more comfortable and stylish victories (blackburn,birmingham) than the ones in which hernandez started(bolton,everton)
SAF is trying to transition into playing a style similar to Barthelona (dont bite my head off). That means not playing with any traditional forward positions (the reason Ibrahimovic was let go at Barca),playing a 4-6-0. Barthelona play in this style. The reason Messi is $hit at the National level is because he plays a traditional role (bla bla but Xavi and Iniesta, bla bla). Compare Barthelona to Argentina. Where does Messi get most of balls ?(no pun intended). In the midfield. By now SAF is brilliant enough to realize that flooding the midfield can disrupt this style (Maurinho figured this out at the end of the season). Which is the reason Hernandez will be with us for a long long time. He is a traditional forward.
Getting rid of Berbs would be a mistake on the magnitude of getting rid of Stam. The berbs can play as a center forward, but also play almost an attacking midfield role when he drops back (as can Rooney, and Young).
Great debate going on her. Smartalex, sparkz et al doing the debates but i wil like to put in my opinion. If am given a choice of choosing 3 strikers for a must win game out of our four major strikers, Rooney, Chico, Owen and Berba. I am going to choose the first three for a must win game.. . . . . . Considering Berba’s age, his likelihood of not playing many games(cuz of Roo & chico) ,the emergency of Welbeck and his pattern of plan that frankly hasn’t been the United’s way of Pace and counters. Then i come to the conclusion that he should be sold.. . . Danny Boy is 20 he need to start playing now. We lost great players in the past cuz we dont want to upset the balance and give them chances ala Rossi. I think Berba’s time has come to an end ceteris Paribus. This is strictly my opinion and i dont want sticks for them. . . . Thanks
Great debate going on her. Smartalex, sparkz et al doing the debates but i wil like to put in my opinion. If am given a choice of choosing 3 strikers for a must win game out of our four major strikers, Rooney, Chico, Owen and Berba. I am going to choose the first three for a must win game.. . . . . . Considering Berba’s age, his likelihood of not playing many games(cuz of Roo & chico) ,the emergence of Welbeck and his pattern of play that frankly hasn’t been the United’s way of Pace and counters. Then i come to the conclusion that he should be sold.. . . Danny Boy is 20 he need to start playing now. We lost great players in the past cuz we dont want to upset the balance and give them chances ala Rossi. I think Berba’s time has come to an end ceteris Paribus. This is strictly my opinion and i dont want sticks for them. . . . Thanks
Stpercival and (sidhant) … top posts, boys. Like Stpercival, I have been wondering whether SAF might move to a more fluid 4-6-0 approach. I think it would work well — and I also reckon such a style might benefit from a healthy shot of Berb-erotica. Build a brick wall at the back. Put five energtic, tireless, mobile, fast midfielders-cum-wingers-cum-strikers in front of the brick wall. Add a dash of Bulgarian jizz-mata, much as you might add a touch of Tobasco (or, if you want to get serious, fresh habanero) to almost any recipe you can name, just for the fuck-off-ness of it. Then shake well and watch it bubble over. Cunts won’t know what’s hit ‘em.
Now, where’s that next beer…
@smartalex…. i think it’s u who’s confused mate… maybe your glory-hunting ways have blinded your vision…. a true united fan values integrity and class more than trophies…. maybe you’ll be more comfortable in that small, blue part of Manchester.
Freddy boy, I sense a lot of hate towards Berba coming from your side. And possibly some daddy issues. You might want to sort that out.
smartalex – yep I know the difference, its just a habit of typing phew
sidhant – Hernandez lacks composure? Certainly doesnt from where I sit.
I watched this debate, but refused to be drawn in. Costas will tell you all the same. We’ve had this same discussion/debate over Berbatov for 2 years now. It’s the same things being regurgitated. Berba lovers, Berba haters, blah blah blah!
supertramp says: If we sell Berba, for the first time in my 26 years of worshiping this club, I’d be ashamed to be a United fan.
You are ashamed of United, yet you think I don’t value integrity.
Integrity: honest, moral, unified, sound, consistent.
These are clearly my traits, not yours. You expect to be ashamed of United.
Back your team. Be unified and consistent, not undependable, inconstant and unfaithful.
I didn’t take supertramps comment seriously. Probably looking for attention. The goat made a comment a few months ago, related to the Rooney debate. We support United, not individual players. I though that was spot on.
@Sparkz i just think its mental not to consider berba a success,he was top scorer and scored 7 match winning goals what the fuck more do you want from the lad,everything he achieved last year paid his transfer fee.you keep harping on about his first two years,i’ve been a berba fan from day one but regardless,after helping utd to 19 don’t give a fuck about first 2 yrs.
with the rooney antics and his early season form utds season could’ve easily gone to shit,berba kept the team ticking over,that lad got the rawest deal in any player i can remember,makes me laugh people comparing owen,welbeck with berba not in his league,welbeck could deveolp into world class but mark my words any injuries to the forward line without berba utd will be in trouble.
fucking 10 mill can’t buy a ham sandwich in the present climate,be a fucking joke,anyway we’ll just have to disagree
Thanks for your objective input willierednut, ever the voice of reason.
supertramp, I will leave it there.
@Sparkz sorry didn’t mean to put words in your mouth,saying berba isn’t a success at utd is as silly as saying he’s not good enough.top scorer and 7 match winning goals what the fuck do you want from the lad.what he achieved last year paid off the 30mill,he kept the team ticking over when rooney was playing the cunt,berba got the rawest deal of any utd player i can remember.it makes me mad that he is a model pro,decent guy and top player and rooney ended up getting all the press after playing shit and being a cunt for most of the year.berba deserves a contract extension.end of
Berbatov is the most skilful player in the EPL, as well as the top scorer. Chico is currently the best poacher out there. Rooney has the busiest all round game and is the most versatile striker around. However Rooney’s lack of form earlier last season (when Berba was carrying the fight to the enemy) would suggest that it would be unwise to lose any of the three or to try build a team around one man. Personally, I’d drop Rooney deeper and play all three but that’s another matter….Welbeck is coming through and so should be given his chance too.
I like and respect Owen but his best days are well gone. Surprised he’s even in the picture.
Disagree there Mr C. He’s a good option from the bench. A perfect understudy, for Hernandez. Don’t forget either, Hernandez will need a rest at some stage. Owen is perfect for that eventuality.
It’s not the man-love for Berba that surprises me as much as the man-love for Rooney in comparison. Don’t get me wrong – I think Rooney’s a great player and would hate for him to ever leave United. But when you consider that Rooney held us to ransom for more money at time when he wasn’t playing well, and compare this to Berba’s dignity when dropped and then shafted from the Champions League final team, if there is such as thing as man-love then Rooney’s been getting it in spades.
@willierednut says:
‘Disagree there Mr C. He’s a good option from the bench.’
Well, its about all opinions. I’d rather see Welbeck on the bench than Owen.
There’s enough room for both on the bench. Still rumors, Danny could go on loan. Everton have been mentioned. I just think Owen looked sharp, the few games he got, which surprised me. I’m comfortable with him getting anothetr year. Probably his last. If we get a goal, like the one against city, then it’s worth it IMO.
Haven’t read all the posts but just wanted to make a point,
In the last two seasons we have never started with a clear cut best 11,
for instance not many expected berbatov to shine the way he did at the start of last season,
or rooney to carry the team sometimes almost on his own in the season before last.
sir alex has has found a way to make full use of the squad by changing team tactics as we go along the length of the season.
So it might not be doom and gloom for berba.
If he stays hes sure to get another shot at the starting position as hernandez will surely need some rest.
hell who knows we might even play with three strikers as they all bring something different to the team
A top player who really seems to have nothing but admiration for the club, and is able to offer a different dimension/option to the team without bitching about being on the bench.
What do we expect? A bunch of benchers who are like-for-like? If they’re good enough, it means the first team should’ve done the job. If they’re not as good, then why even swap them in? If they’re better, why are they on the bench?
@smartalex: Truce mate! i admit I went over-board.
@willierednut: being ashamed of united doesn’t mean hatred for the club: it is in fact questioning the fact as to why we’re talking abt mistreating a loyal player. there’s no harm in pointing out a mistake… and the shame part may come from the fact that mistreating loyalty maybe a trait of other clubs but not us, so why are we seriously considering to change all of that? As for the Rooney debate, I don’t know what you’re pointing out to. If you didn’t like me criticizing Wazza, well tough luck mate. I cannot appreciate a mercenary even if he wins 10 ballon d’ors on a trot.
Interesting debate tbh, and I hear a lot of good arguments from the likes of smartalex etc
The fact that he was our top scorer last season doesn’t really come into it much for me. Because as well as he did to score those goals- he got them because for 80% of the season he was playing week in week out. It was only in March that he lost his spot. Until then it was him and Rooney (or him and Chicha when Rooney was injured).
Next season, I think it’s clear that he won’t be playing week in week out, and many people are agreed that he’s not the type of player that can come in despite not playing regularly and still do the business. So he’ll probably be in the position he was for the last couple of months of the season- not getting regular game time, when he does come in he won’t be at his best, and then people will say stuff like “well his form/confidence is down because he’s not playing regularly”
Unless you’re suggesting that we DO give him regular, week in , week out football- thereby dropping one out of Rooney and Chicha, and making our TEAM less effective (since it seems that we play better without him). Chicken & egg argument in a way.
Slim are you seriously trying to tell me that Berba has the experience of Giggs and Owen? O come on really Berba still has room to learn and improve himself and clearly does not have the international experience that Owen for instance has. I would have thought the point I was making was obvious to everyone. The day you start thinking you know everything and do not need to learn is the day to quit as it is then clear that your attitude is wrong and therefore will not learn. Please do not misunderstand me I am not for a moment suggesting Berba thinks that way in fact I am very sure he doesn’t. However there does seem to be that attitude from some people on here. I did have the same argument about Wazza some time ago. Experience does count for a lot and the likes of Giggs can pass on that experience and help the youngsters.
Just as an additional point- people think I’m a “Berba hater”- I ain’t. I’ve said what a top player and gent he is- I’m just making footballing argument IMO.
But there does at times seem to be a bit of an anti-Owen feeling on here (and anyone who follows Scott on Twitter will see that from him as well). Most probably because of his Liverpool connections, but it’s unjust I feel.
He’s a top pro as far as I’m concerned, just like Berba he doesn’t moan when not playing, and crucially- when he does get called upon, looks sharp and makes a good impact. His low wages means it’s no harm keeping him whatsoever.
And if you’ve watched him when he does play, he’s altered his game a bit- he drops off and links play up a lot more- not the one trick Owen he might’ve been before. Remember vs Southampton in the FA Cup he even played as an attacking midfielder.
Let’s imagine a situation where Berba stays- but at some point in the next 6 months, Rooney, Chicha & Welbeck are all ahead of him and Berba’s a 4th choice who’s not getting much game time. He’ll be picking up 90k a week for that- yet nobody on here is gonna accuse him of milking the Utd coffers, just picking up his pay cheque etc etc. They’ll say “well it’s not his fault he isn’t getting picked, that’s down to the Boss” (For the record- I wouldn’t accuse him of that either!)
Yet when Owen is the same situation, and picking up much lower wages- he gets accused of all that stuff ^.
reported – for what it’s worth – in Guardian “rumours” “Tottenham are considering selling Brazilian midfielder Sandro to Villarreal for £12m ”
How about a straight swap – Sandro for Dimmy ?
That would be one of those win/win exchanges in which each side would get what they want/need – and the players would probably be happy, too.
Yeah, I know, it just makes too much sense.
supertramp – Way to miss the point lad! I wasn’t saying you were wrong to criticize Rooney. I was critical of Rooney myself. You said, you’ll be ashamed if United sell Berbatov? That’s an over reaction IMO. Roy Keane, who was immense for United, was fucked off, half way through the season. I didn’t like the way United handled that situation, but understood why, the club had taken that action. I wasn’t ashamed by it ffs! Sir Alex ferguson is the greatest manager from these shores, but he has to be cruel sometimes. I didn’t like Berbatov being left out of the champions league final, in favour of Owen. The point about supporting the club, is a valid one. We all have our favourite players at United. Past and present. I love some of players who have represented United, but I love the club more. That’s the point I trying to get across.
Denton, do you not think we’ve got enough ball winner type players? I think creativity is what we need tbh
Sparkz an excellent post. Personally I an very annoyed about accusations about Owen suggesting he is milking the coffers. Some people on hear do have an anti Owen agenda. Personally I think there is room at United for both Berba and Owen and both have a part to play. Sadly there are some who cannot see beyond the fact that Owen played for Liverpool. For goodness sake Owen got a very raw deal off Scousers and Geordies without getting it here at United.
- There does at times seem to be a bit of an anti-Owen feeling on here
- It is because of his Liverpool connections
… and that’s why the enmity is totally justified.
- Owen is a top pro, he doesn’t moan, he makes an impact, he adds value to the team and the young players and he earns low wages.
… and that’s why his contract has been extended.
Neither Welbeck nor Berbatov are endangered by the decision to keep Owen; just as neither Nani nor Valencia is endangered by the purchase of Young.
Danny might go on loan again, although I think not. The quotes that claim that Sir Alex has guaranteed Welbeck a place have slightly twisted Danny’s statement: “The manager said I’ll get decent opportunities and hopefully I’ll take them and progress from there”
Sparkz @ 16:20: “do you not think we’ve got enough ball winner type players? I think creativity is what we need”
No; I think another ManchesterTerrier – to replace Owen Hargreaves – is just what’s needed to round out the squad.
My thinking is that the two full-backs (Evra and the Da Silva Twins) supporting the wingers (Nani, Valencia, and now AshLey Young) provide plenty of creativity down the flanks and down the old-fashioned inside-right and -left channels. WayneBoy is a wonderful footballer – whether he’s played as a “withdrawn striker” or as an “attacking midfielder” – and Chicharito seems to have a magic touch in front of goal. So that’s four/six attacking players.
If you shift WayneBoy back into midfield to accommodate another “withdrawn striker” then you’ve got five/seven attacking players.
On the other hand, in some matches you want to have two “sitting midfielders” who are ball-winners. Carrick seems to be nailed-on to be the sweeper while Fletcherinho is, I guess, ahead of Anderson in the plans but it sure wouldn’t hurt to have another guy for this role OR for “possible” future “ultimate challenges” against Barcelona who have to be played much more aggressively than was the case in Rome or at Wembley.
From what I remember, Sandro was the star of last year’s Copa Libertadores final for Internationale. Spurs had already purchased him but allowed him to finish the season in Brazil. That was a wise move, all around. This kid is a real up-and-comer with a very, very high up-side ceiling who would fit much better with UTD’s rotational system than, say, Modric. Actually, I think that Spurs would be nuts to sell Sandro and keep Modric – but that’s a different story, eh ?
Sandro for Berba? No thanks.
Denise – Priceless comment. Berba doesnt have the international experience? What are you talking about love? THE highest scorer by a distance for Bulgaria. Tons of gaames and goals.
Berba is quality and United will be worse off without him.
There is no anti Owen vibe at all. I think some are just bemused as to why if he was given an extension Berbatov wasnt. I am actually glad Owen has as he can put the ball in the net but surely Berba is staying. People forget just how good he was till Feb. Top drawer.
I would rather have Sandra Bullock.
Great comment about Berbatov not having International experience. A lot of research was obviously undertaken before coming up with that accurate conclusion.
Denise Williams lol elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top
we need him somehow
Sparkz at 15:58 (and earlier). “The fact that he was our top scorer last season doesn’t really come into it much for me. Because as well as he did to score those goals- he got them because for 80% of the season he was playing week in week out. It was only in March that he lost his spot.” You then go on to say that this season, it’s clear that he won’t be playing week-in, week-out, because that could be done only at the expense of Rooney or Hernandez, and that would make the team woud be less effective.
So: when Berba plays week-in, week-out, he scores bags of goals, but this actually makes the team less effective. Therefore, Berba should not be allowed to play week-in, week-out. Therefore, he will be a failure. Therefore, he should be sold.
Is that about it?
Wayne … if the elevator did go all the way to the top, it would open on an empty room.
Berbatov will never get a cap for Bulgaria…..
Oh wait…………
Stateside- I said that it’s clear Berba is at his best when playing week in week out. He’s isn’t the kind of player who can not play for a while, and still be effective when called upon ( a la Solskjaer, Owen etc).
It’s also clear that next season he won’t be playing week in week out. The reason for this being so clear? The manager’s team selection in the last few months + the fact that we were generally MORE EFFECTIVE without him.
Therefore does it not make sense that he goes somewhere where he plays regularly, and plays well. Rather than staying at Utd, playing less often, which hinders his performance, and does nobody any favours? I didn’t say anything about him being a failure did I?
I’m sure he can be a good striker if played week in week out- but I’m yet to see any evidence that he can be a good back up striker, someone who can come in despite not playing regularly and still do the business.
Sparkz … you didn’t actually use the word failure, but it’s implicit in what you’re saying. You’re saying that the only role for him is a part-time role, and he’s no good at that — in other words, he can’t deliver what the club needs. do you have any facts or stats to prove that United were more effective when Dimi didn’t play — you know, that we won more games, scored more goals, whatever? United won the PL last season, playing 38 games in total. Berbatov appeared in 32 of those matches, scored 21 goals — seven of them match winners. Do you have anything to show that we were more effective in the six matches he didn’t play? Anything to show that we would have been even more effective if he had not played in those 32 matches?
In his 32 matches, we won 18 (56%), drew 10 (31%) and lost 4 (13%). Hernandez played 27 matches. Of those, we won 14 (52%), drew 9 (33%) and lost 4 (15%). It seems to me there’s not much a conclusive argument either way — I certainly can’t find anything to support the claim that United are more effective when Dimi doesn’t play!
The stats you display show that, as you said- there isn’t a conclusive argument either way. So statistically, there isn’t anything which shows Utd are more effective with Berba or Hernandez, they’re pretty evenly matched in that regard.
So if the stats show there’s not much of a difference between our performances with/without Berba- what’s the best method to judge? The human eye of course, actually watching our games, which I’m sure everybody here does
And I think the majority of people would agree that our actual performances have been much better, more cohesive, and more fluid without Berba. Football isn’t just a game of stats, and the stats you’ve kindly provided don’t really tell the story of how we actually play. All they show is the “win percentage” etc.
Why else would the Boss have dropped him even though he was scoring plenty of goals? The world and his dog can see that generally, we play better withot Berba- not an indictment on him, its just that he doesn’t suit our style of play, and doest have enough chemistry with some of his team-mates
Rooney & Carrick in particular are 2 players who’ve definitely benefited from the extra time and space they get from Chicharito stretching the play. Our midfield in general has more time and gets harried less- when Berba plays his lack of pace means teams push right up and squeeze us. There’s no stats which prove these things, but when you watch a game you can see it yourself.
So yeah, in terms of how many games won etc- you might not be able to find an argument that says we play better without Berba, but watching a game will tell you that. Again, I go back to the question I asked before- why else would SAF have dropped Berba? He was scoring goals and we were winning games with him, yet he still replaced him. What other reason is there, apart from the fact that our performances are generally better without him.
Berba may do a job if the first choice strikers are out but his wages are too high for a third or if wellbeck does well, fouth choice striker. With all the new players coming in he is probably a wage bill too far for a second string player which is what SAF clearly rates him as.
Sparkz … thanks for confirming that when you talked about United being MORE EFFECTIVE, as if it were some sort of fact, you were in reality just spouting your own opinion. Nothing wrong in that — it’s what all fans do, including me, and it’s what this site is for. And you’re right: beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and in my eyes, there are few sights on the football field that will ever equal the beauty of seeing the Berb haul a Scholes 50-yard rocket out of the sky and tame it instantly with one touch. Or his extraordinary overhead kick against the dippers in a crowded penalty box. Or his back-heel to Evra outside our own box, running up-field to collect the return, then firing his own long, diagonal, Scoles-like cross out to Nani on the other side, before running forward to collect the return and score from the edge of the other penalty box. Or his astonishing sideways scissors volley to score against West Ham. I like to see our team win, as do we all. And I love watching Hernandez and Rooney and all the others. But I also live for the moments of pure magic, and while Berbatov isn’t the only one who can pull a rabbit of the hat, there is magic in that right foot of his, and I am definitely under his spell.
So, cheers. As for what most fans do or don’t believe, this site doesn’t have a poll mechanism and even if it did, that would only represent a fraction of United’s following. I also suspect that the results of any such poll would vary greatly depending on when it was conducted. Earlier last season — when it was The Berb who was winning us matches and keeping us in the PL race and beating our old foe the dippers — there weren’t many calling for his head, or his demotion to the bench.
@stateside aussie:
‘… there are few sights on the football field that will ever equal the beauty of seeing the Berb haul a Scholes 50-yard rocket out of the sky and tame it instantly with one touch. Or his extraordinary overhead kick against the dippers in a crowded penalty box. Or his back-heel to Evra outside our own box, running up-field to collect the return, then firing his own long, diagonal, Scoles-like cross out to Nani on the other side, before running forward to collect the return and score from the edge of the other penalty box. Or his astonishing sideways scissors volley to score against West Ham.’
One of the most eloquent pieces of prose I’ve seen on a blog ever, never mind a footy blog. Sheer poetry. Sounds soppy but it literally had tears welling in my eyes reading that. Really. Encapsulates perfectly why United is loved and why Berba must stay.
Al this thread is missing, the somber music at the end of the incredible hulk series. La la la la…
Mr C — cheers mate, and thanks! I have a feeling (which may be no more than blind optimism) that The Berb’s story with United is not yet fully written. I have a great wallpaper for my computer of his volley against the hamnmers — it’s on the official United site, in their wallpapers section, if you’re interested. Long live Berbarotica!
Willie … if the Berb leaves, I’ll be singing the blues … “Now when my Berba left me…”
Life goes on…
Life after the Berb? Possibly. But for me, anyway, it will be a little duller and sadder, more mundane and ordinary. But I’ll get over it.
He’s won’t be the first player to leave? If he does go this summer. Keane, Butt, Phil Neville, Becks, Cantona etc…United will go on and still be successful. The Berb will go to some club(not PSG) and continue to score goals. Nothing is confirmed as of yet.
Willie … all true. But in this case, a couple of things will always rankle with me, beyond missing him as a player. The biggest of those is that if he leaves now, there’s a certain section of our fan base that will always consider him to have been a failure and a waste of money. Another is that in many cases, when players have left, it has been because of declining ability, physical issues or poor attitude. (There have been exceptions, and Cantona was one, because I always believed he had another 2-3 years in him.) But none of that is true in The Berb’s case. Yes, he is reaching the point where he might start to decline due to age, but I am not so sure. The guys who tend to suffer most at the 30-mark are those whose game is built on raw speed — like Owen. Speed wasn’t Owen’s only weapon — good vision, fantastic touch, he had all the assets — but it was that extra half-yard of speed that set him apart. But the Berb’s game isn’t built on speed, as we know. His performance last year can hardly said to have been one that indicated a player in decline.
Having said all that, I am not convinced he will leave this year. Cheers!
@ stateside aussie. I enjoy ur insight to berba’s 3yrs at Utd. Now listen to this. I will never forget that back headed goal @ stoke or the 36th seconds goal against chelsea @ o.t . Those and many more in just half a season. If am given a choice between the two players. I know who my pick wil be(CHICO). And many reds here wil agree with me. As for welbeck, i think he and cleverly should stay @ o.t next season
StatesideAussie – Why do you care, whether some fans think he was a flop? The only thing that matters is, you don’t believe that to be true. Again, we don’t know if he’s going. When it’s all said and done, Sir Alex Ferguson is the manager of Manchester United. He’ll make that decision. If he decides to let Berbatov go, I’m sure it’ll be with a heavy heart. You gotta make these calls in life. That’s why he gets paid the big bucks. Better him, than me…
Lexxy … right, but I don’t believe that it has to be a choice between them, not given the way we work a squad system. In any other club, it would be a choice. But in ours, it doesn’t need to be. And in fact, shouldn’t be.
Willie … I hear you, buddy. And of course, you are right in every respect about SAF. But then again, if followed to its logical conclusion, there would be no point in any of us discussing anything about selections or transfers or this player or that player, would there? We would all just wait and see what SAF does from match to match and season to season, nod our heads in agreement at whatever that is, and go on our way.
The club comes first for me, as it does for you. I just happen to think it’s a better club with Berbatov in it, that’s all. I don’t think it comes down to him versus Hernandez, or him versus anyone. There are matches I wouldn’t play Berbatov at all, and matches where I would play him first, and for the most part, I think SAF gets that right. I do wish Berbatov had been available on the bench against Barcelona — not because I think he could have won the match for us (there’s no way to know), but because it would have given Barcelona something different to chew on, when our Plan A clearly wasn’t working. But in saying that, I am not at all critical of SAF, because I am talking with the benefit of hindsight, and SAF had to make the call up-front and he couldn’t possibly cover every eventuality. Like you said, better him than us. But Berbatov adds a different dimension, and it’s one that’s useful to us over a long season with the many different types of opponent that we must play and beat. Cheers!
Well, there’s no debate, until we know, if he’s going, or not. I’ve said, everything I’m gonna say about Berbatov. He’s a top player. I hope he stays, but wouldn’t be surprised if he leaves. As with Rooney, I’ll support the managers decision, whatever the outcome.