When the rumour that Berbatov’s departure from Old Trafford was imminent took flight, we witnessed perhaps the biggest love-in that the striker has had since he joined the club. It was so great that you wondered whether Berbatov had hauled us to the title single-handedly, and felt a bit sorry for James Collins.
When Berbatov arrived, he joined a strikeforce also consisting of Ronaldo, Tevez, and Rooney. The quartet were almost never deployed together, though Ferguson did use them as a ‘nuclear option’ on occasion – they were tasked with destroying Tottenham when we found ourselves 2-0 down at White Hart Lane, and the result was the best, most exciting half of football we’d played since the 7-1 versus Roma.
Everything gelled that day, and United’s fantastic four looked to be in serious contention for the title of ‘greatest strikeforce ever put together.’ It really did have everything – physicality, work-rate, irresistible pace, guile, technique, and with all four being able to produce magic and score goals. It turned out to be a false dawn – Ferguson, in his caution, or wisdom, rarely used all four together, and the last time we saw the combination was in a futile pursuit in the dying stages of the clash with Barcelona in Rome.
Berbatov, however, stuck around, and improved in successive seasons but has still not found his place at the club. Having fallen foul of Ferguson’s refusal to play him in bigger games, his confidence has wavered, and he has also bizarrely failed to attract the unconditional admiration of the fans enjoyed by the likes of Rooney. It’s hard to imagine a player scoring a hat-trick, involving an overhead kick, to defeat Liverpool and attracting such limited reverence.
And so, I’m prepared to admit that in a pragmatic light, a move makes a lot of sense. PSG were the club rumoured to be making the bid, and a moneyed club short on success would be ideal, as it would mean we’d get good money for an ageing striker who has never fitted into our system, and has plenty of young replacements waiting in the wings.
Yet if we sell Berbatov, we will lose something more valuable – we will lose our swagger. Berbatov fits into a category of players that has, under Ferguson, included Scholes, Ronaldo, and Cantona – the player who gets people off their seats. Nani may be capable of the spectacular, but people are reluctant to vacate their sofas when they know that the outcome is more likely to be a shot wildly blazed into the stands. Berbatov, like the other players named, not only has the capacity for magic, but there’s also the very high probability that when the ball is moved on, we’ll be in a better position than we were previously.
Yes, contrary to the doubters’ views, Berbatov is reliable. Rooney would be our spark if he could be trusted not to give the ball away with a leaden touch or a floated, searching pass to the linesman. And it’s the unpredictability we’ll miss – ways of scoring goals we hadn’t thought of, rather than a small repertoire of simple goals which can at times find itself quickly exhausted
Still, Ferguson’s European record in recent years makes it difficult to question his judgement. Berbatov was unlikely to have been key to either Champions League defeat to Barcelona, and perhaps his style of play really is at odds with the modern game – too slow to put pressure on an opposition backline, not energetic enough to close down midfielders. Instead Rooney has been moved to this role, a player with half of Berbatov’s imagination and reliability with the ball but who never neglects his defensive duties. Zlatan Ibrahimovic, the closest player to Berbatov around in terms of style, fell out of favour at Barcelona for similar reasons, and success has eluded him at the highest level in Europe.
So perhaps there isn’t room for imagination anymore. Sheer imagination is no longer for settling tight games between giants, but for unlocking the massed defences of Birmingham and Stoke. The genius who would formerly be the inspirational, talismanic presence is now a squad player to be used in a specific situation. It’s happening elsewhere too – Ronaldo and Messi have been more effective as they have become more flairless, and Barcelona, the greatest team of our age, have a passing game not modelled on the swagger and fearlessness of the great Brazilian sides, or the patience supported by magic of Italian masters, but rather the robotic uniformity we label as boring when practised by Germans.
It’s a painful thought, but if Berbatov wants to be back playing his best football, playing the best role he can for a team, then he should leave. There are plenty of clubs that would be ideal for him, but sadly, United, and anyone else with notions of European dominance, are not one of them. It’ll be sad to see him go, and the memories will remain, but Dimitar – I just want what’s best for you.
For a video tribute to Berbatov, or some t-shirts honouring the great man, check out Surreal Football.
Man Utd News 24/7
As many strikers as we have, I’d rather we kept onto him as we’ll undoubtedly need the guy – the kids are great, but he’s brilliant. Let him see his contract out at the least.
Great article Callum. It must be painful to write some home truths about a class player who has been unfairly maligned over the years. But you have set out the salient issues really well.
To the illustrious names you can add Riquelme as well whose like you wont see again as a slow but thinking creative midfielder. It’s a different games we play today.
Dimi remains a class act. I hope he can stay on and contribute in the way he has. His attitude is first class and should be applauded despite the constant criticism he receicves from the naysayers.
It’s a squad games these days in any case. But I can understand the psychological blow of knowing you’re not going to be in the strongest starting XI. From united’s poitnof view they will be thinking of the resale value and perhaps also how much room to give the younger and faster strikers a chance to shine.
Let’s see…
The Left Bank
Great Post Callum. All I can is, I will always love Berba for his attitude and respect for our club. He has well and truly endeared himself, but despite this, there are still some shameless people who have no time for him.
If the author is talking about the 5-2 win over Spurs in the 08-09 season, that happened in OT, not WHL.
I think Berba is a class act, it’s so sad to see him used in this way, but I know it’s football and the managers word is final.
I agree with you completely . He should be let go. 15mil or whatever it is is a lot of money for a player over 30. He isn’t getting any younger, and he deserves to spend the last few seasons on the pitch – not on the bench.
Good article but i disagree! I think Berbatov still has a vital role to play this year, i just don’t think the likes of Macheda and Welbeck will perform well on a consistent basis, and as much as i love Michael Owen let’s face it he is still injury prone, i think Dimitar gives us something unique, we would be mad to sell him!
Great read and well debated but i would disagree! I am not bothered in the slightest about the 15 million for him at his age as that is Glazer money and they got 80 from Ronny. We do need Berba with his swagger and your right he does get me off my seat but that has to be the same for Nani. Nani can frustrate but every player with that ability does the same as it is impossible to do it every time. Nani was the best player in the prem last year it was a joke Bale won footballer fo the year.
Berba despreatey wants to play for United and we should make the most out of that, look at City with all their mercenaries like Balotelli, Yaya etc all signed and stated they would retirn to their former clubs in 4 years!
he gets me off my seat alright – when he misses the sitters or playing letargic…nani on the other hand always gets you on the edge of your seet coz he’s always on the verge of something magical
just like you said scott – his style doesn’t go through at the top level football – he’s more of an UEFA cup class a player
he’s good to watch, occasionally, but when the stakes are high he should let the big boys do it…useless in the most prestige competition in the world – CL
That was one of the best posts on football I have seen. Beautifully put. johnathan Wilson couldn’t have done better.
Very good read. I think the question is really about the style of the team as a whole, and the legacy that surrounds it. I don’t agree that players like Berba are outdated. We have traditonally relied on wingers, box to box MFs and a 4-4-2 geared for savagely quick counters. You could fit in Berba and Nani, but then what do you do with Valencia and Fletcher? You could buy, say, Pastore, and build a delightful team around Pastore, Berba and Nani, but then would such a team win the PL? As I have said, earlier that it’s no coincidence that Le Arse have come closest to beating barca, and the same team struggles against the likes of Stoke. I disagree about Europe though – I feel that’s exactly where Berba, and not Hernandez would have some real impact, if played consistently. So to me, it’s about priorities, legacy and future vision.
P.S, and offtopic: I just thanked my arsenal-loving mates for exporting Clichy to shitty. As far as LeArse are concerned, they still have Diaby, don’t they?
yep, Berba is a fantastic player, hope he’ll stay.
i really hope Berba plays a lot more this season. It is only right to give our top scorer some playing time. the man has been a good servant and has endured a lot of shit. He has to be rewarded by Fergie at some point.
This thread is gonna be the battleground for a few ugly debates in the coming hours I’m afraid
Berbatov has done no wrong — it’s just his style of football cannot suit most games that United play or face up
Imagine the urgency of yesterday’s game, whether you like it or not, it’d be ugly to lose to the Noisy Neighbours — would you prefer the urgency of the likes of Cleverley or maybe Chicarito to Berba’s slow turning left and right and probings?
I’m not against Berba, I’d love him to weave some magic the way our past heroes did — better still to use him that occasional time
But for consistency and guaranteed challenge in a league like BPL — do what we do, not what the ignorant and idealistic Wenger does…
Berbatov WILL start a lot of games this season hopefully. Hernandez isn’t just gonna walk straight into the team when he comes back now is he? Trust fergie berba will play a lot. Fergie is not a wicked man. he just tries to play the line- up that best fits the situation. I mean Berba had his best season EVER at United last year so that’s a good sign.
This is so true and so sad.
Love the Berb but it cannot work now – Its not him, it`s us.
I´m amazed and pissed. Let Berba be for fooks sake!!! He is flair and creativity personalized. He doesn´t play football, he plays football. He does it with speed and makes it look like slow-mo. The best bit…he scores vital and plenty of goals. After Rooney there are only Chica and Berba. After them there are Welbeck, Macheda and an injuryprone Owen.
Welbeck didn´t convince me last night. Macheda had a mediocre season in Italy and I´m not sure he is up for it.
Berba has the head to sit out 2 out of 3 three games and still perform his magic when he gets the chance. He has the heart of a devil, and want to stay and prove himself for those dumbnuts still doubting him.
Give him a new long-term deal and keep him for life!
really think his time might be up, especially with our new youthfull lookin squad
berbatov provides something different and like all our players, he will be used in rotation. thats what gets us the PL and CL final.. quality in depth, allowing us to have an extraordinary team even when we have multiple players out with injuries, fatigue etc.
berbatov has never acted like he wants to be the focus of our team, he plays like he wants to be part of the team. and that is what the best squads need..
If he does leave then I hope the young lads rise up and fill in the void, as he may be slow on the ball, but he has excellent control skills, and I think it was a CL match in which he did a Marseille Roulette and humiliated the opposition defender, followed by a brilliant pass for goal. But however, he was inconsistent sometimes, and may be why SAF decided to keep him out of the CL and in the match yesterday.
^^^ what he said
Good article Callum. I agree, a move would most definitely benefit Berba in terms of playing time but I don’t think the move would benefit Manchester United in the slightest. The only youngster who has currently earned having a shot ahead of Berba is Wellbeck, in my opinion. Injuries are bound to reartheir ugly head, particularly where Owen is concerned and I wouldn’t be suprised if the joke that are the FA fabricated a few more “united exclusive” rules to issue bans. If We’re in need of back up I would be far more comfortable having to call on Berba than Diouf or Macheda right now.
Brilliant article, but I have to say that am praying that Berba stays, he is a class act. The 15M+ is a lot of money to turn down but we have to remember that apart from Rooney and Owen, all our other strikers are still novices in the EPL. In addition, we have already lost 5 players (VDS, Scholesy, G. Neville, Sheasy & Wes Brown), this number will most likely be 7 if we add PIG & the G Bomb, I think if Berba is added to that list, 8 players will be too much and SAF has always been a believer in continuity.
Pretty good article from Callum. But I don’t believe that Berbatov doesn’t have a role to play. He definitely does. Just like Sheringham did even when Yorke, Cole and Ole were on fire.
However, and here comes the sad reality, he might be better off elsewhere simply because he will always be underappreciated by the fans and dare I say the club as well. It’s not just the C.League final snub. It’s the fact that he wasn’t included in the player of the year poll that the club itself organized. It’s the fact that David Gill basically said that he was on trial this season. It’s the fact that yesterday he was brought on in the 89th minute. For what? Just for him to take a penalty?
I don’t believe the situation will get any better for Berba since I have the feeling that SAF wants to give the likes of Welbeck and Macheda every possible chance of making it. So as much as it pains me, I think selling him could be the best solution for all parties at the moment.
As for Sir Alex not starting him in the big games, I wouldn’t blame that on Berbatov since we usually revert to 4-5-1 in those games. If Berbatov loses his spot to a 3rd midfielder, then that says something about the weakness of our midfield, not Berba’s. The only time a striker took his place in big games, was Hernandez in the latter half of last season.
Costas @ 10:04, Spot on mate. I think we had this discussion right after the CL final as well where we decided that moving on would be best for all parties and especially Berbatov – for the treatment meted out to him by some of our fans.
I completely agree that he will have a role to play against the Stokes and the like. I don’t want him to leave and wish he could end his career with us. But as a big fan of Berbatov, the player and human being, I think it would be better for him to not take more dents on his confidence by moving to a place where the club and fans will actually appreciates his uniquenss.
Keep him.
He’s a genius who brings a certain style and swagger to the way we play.
Top bloke too.
Excellent article, but I don’t really agree. I thought Fergie made a huge mistake not having Berba even on the bench for the Barca match, while keeping Owen (whom I like, so don’t get me wrong) who merely replicated Hernandez’s role but in a less effective way, while Berba would have offered something very different.. What Berba gives is not just flair and creativity he also holds on to the ball all over the pitch better than anyone else in the team barring Scholes, who has of course now gone. If you watch what Berba’s up to when he hasn’t got the ball you’ll see how much hard work he does, finding space, dragging defenders away, giving options. Overall he works far harder than he’s credited for, including tackling and defensive headers at free kicks/ corners (It’s an aside but if he’d been playing yesterday City would not have scored their first – United had a terrific record defending set-pieces last season, some of which was down to Berba.) Of course I wouldn’t hold onto Berbatov as a defender, but he does so much more than float about being languidly ‘creative’, and he would have made a big difference had he played in the Champs Lge Final. It would have been much harder for the ‘robotic’ tik-tak attackers of Barca to get their carousel going if Berba had been there strolling about with the ball tied to his feet, giving all his team-mates a breather. Berba buys time for a team like few others currently at United, enabling the slow-slow-quick movement which is so effective in the PL, and could be sometimes in Europe if Fergie only gave him the chance.
Oh by the way, I thought Callum ‘nailed’ Rooney’s weaknesses perfectly. Spot on!
Berbatov is a UEFA Cup Class A player? Sorry but whoever said is a Class A [something]. Whatever word fits that slot.
All actual competitive games in a season is a big game. Does it mean that when SAF plays Berbatov the team can afford to lose? Or do you reckon that he thinks Berbatov is only good enough for certain “levels” of teams? Unless you could ensure ceterus paribus, in which every team plays the same tactics but with different players, that is just nonsensical conjecture. There will be times when some other players are just not on form and can’t make things happen no matter how hard they try.
Stop believing the media just because they say so. A player who is really not in SAF’s plans is someone like Gibson. Not considered part of the squad, not even present for the Community Shield game.
Berbatov will continue to make some of you eat really humble pie this season. A top footballer who is as irreplaceable as Scholes was, for his ball control as a target man is insane. I could never ever agree with those wanting him out. To think i wasn’t even all that interested in his deadline day signing in the first place!
As articulate and accurate as always Mr Oakley.
Very good article, enjoyed reading it. I myself see his days numbered. Costas has already said what I was going to say. To reiterate considering his devotion to the club he gets treated like shit generally speaking. Berbatov is like Jesus gets on with it despite all the flack. I get the feeling he’s being forced out.
Still got a huge part to play. He will be here this season still.
CROoney – It isnt Scott whp wrote the post.
Giles, Excellent contribution as always.
However, when does Berbatov start acting like the player who has all the qualities you mentioned. If anyone else had been in Berbatov’s position after finishing as top scorer and being left out of the CL final, they would’ve demonstrated a holier-than-thou attitude, and been entirely right in doing so. But what does Berbatov say – That it was his fault that he was not good enough to make the team.
I sometimes wish he wasn’t Mr. Nice Guy (The same I always feel about Rahul Dravid – The Indian cricketer). Being a nice guys isn’t always going to be as much of a rewarding experience as we could hope. Just ask Wayne Rooney how not being one has been like after last season.
My gripe is that a player with the talent and attitude that Berbatov has should be rewarded by a club as honorable as ours. But I don’t think that has always happened with Berbatov. Fans have always treated him like vermin. The club hasn’t shown the same kind of respect to him that he has.
That is why, even though I think he will be critical to our success this season if he stays, for Berbatov himself, it would be better if this nightmare ended.
Berbatov is a top quality striker and absolutely fulfills the roles given to him by Sir Alex and our tactical team. There is zero chance of him being sold. He is irreplaceable.
Further, it is not in Berbatov’s interest to leave, and he confirms that. Dimitar is far better suited to an elite squad of superstars competing for the highest accolades than to some also-ran bunch of hopefuls. His place at the main table is secured, he does not want or need to throw it away.
Thanks for the well written article Callum.
Well done Giles Oakley, for attracting credit even when it isn’t due!
The article was contributed by Callum Hamilton.
Hi smartalex, you may be right. I had assumed the comments here were about what I posted at 10.55, but I may be deluded. I often am…
Smartalex – it was his response that I was congratulating in regards to Mr Oakley, not Callum’s article.
Giles Oakley! I am so sorry!
I am a well-meaning fool, but a fool nonetheless!
Mikekelly12 – How are you buddy? Sorry about that, I’m a twit!
@Giles Oakley
” I had assumed the comments here were about what I posted at 10.55, but I may be deluded. I often am…”
Lol…..Sir If you of all United fans are deluded, then we might as well all pack up and leave
Excellent insightful comment from you above….I must also congratulate you on that wonderfully written article on Cantona’s redemption. I read it up later because I was a bit busy then. A fantastic read as always. I have said it you before, why don’t you make a collection of these articles and publish it. You’re style is very lucid and absorbing….or better still write a book and pass down your tremendous knowledge and experience of How To Be a True Red through all the myriad times, in victory and defeat, in glory and in tragedy.
I’m sure a few of our so called fans who keep slagging off our own players who have been more active on here lately will have plenty to learn from your writings
In fact All True REDS can learn a lot from those because the younger ones over the last 25 odd years have grown up spoilt with trophies and do not truly appreciate the exciting times that we live in.
Red Devil
You raise an excellent point about how spoiled we have become as United fans, especially the younger generation…. In a way we have been blessed mainly due to the genius that is Sir Alex.
I still recall the times during the late 70′s and 80′s when our season would be defined on how far we got in the FA cup or how well we did against the dippers in the head to head clashes….. I do wonder at times as to some of the so called fans of today and think to my self, how many would have lasted the course!
Cedars
Cheers mate…although I belong to the younger lot myself, when I see Sir Alex constantly reminding us about the history of Manchester United, about the babes and the depressing times that followed as well as the writings of people like Sir Giles, it really makes me wonder whether we’ve gotten too used to the winning and title run-ins and Champions league finals…
I mean screw Barca, there were times when we were relegated for God’s sake and people say its the worst squad and worst midfield ever…
Red Devil
Funny eh, how some even dare complain about the squad or when they moan about certain players calling them crap etc! I was old enough to remember when we were relegated, but not old enough to feel the pain. What I do recall is that my dad had the worst summers of his life that year, it was only years later that I understood why he was so depressed then……….
Success does breed success and I for one love it, however my love for United was and is never about trophy count
well argued must say but I’ve gotta disagree Callum. Berbatov had his best season since signing so it doesn’t make sense selling him now. He gives us something we dont have, and he’s a confidence player so even if the supporters dont appreciate it, he knows that the history books will. Dimmy played a huge role in our historic 19th and that will give him a self worth and swagger we’ve been waiting to see. I think this will be his best season in our shirt. Even yesterday when he came on and cut the ball back running into the box, he looked sharp, decisive and hungry. Welbeck is good enough to replace Berbatov right now, but with so many games coming up it would be short sighted to only have Rooney and Hernandez as our only week in week out proven goal scorers. Extra competition wont hurt our young strikers this season, time is on their side after all. Dimmi should have at least one more season.
No player is irreplaceable. You can’t go like for like, sometimes, but you can still manage the situation. Different formation, or different way of playing. We didn’t replace Keano like for like. Fergie went a different way, with the signing of Carrick. I’ve already said, if the Berb is happy being 3rd choice striker, then why should begrudge him staying another year? I think if he does stay, he could get more games, than some people think. It’s a long hard season and a player of his invaluable experience, might be crucial in the home straight of the season.
Willie
With you 100% my friend, the whole Berba issue has been over discussed to be honest, we need him, we will use him and he should stay……Simple really
@smartalex – “He is irreplaceable.” – lmao, our best displays and results were without him, what are you people blabbering about
@King Eric – yeah, i was a bit surprised with scott, then i realised that it wasn’t him who wrote it
CROoney – I can’t take you serious, when Berbatov is the discussion. Sorry.
I think the blabbering could be described as with out Berba we would NOT have won the league last season……….
One of the best players we have and the league’s top goalscorer. The idea that we should let him go is baffling.
United – Blackburn 7-1
United – Birmingham 5-0
United – Liverpool 3-2
What awful displays.
@Cedars
Too right.
@Costas, Add seven match-winning goals as well. Shit player. He only added 21 points to our overall total last season.
@Balaji
Heh, it would have been 24 if it wasn’t for Bowyer’s offside goal at Brum. I am sure Berba is to blame for that though.
WillieRedNut @ 12:37: ” if the Berb is happy being 3rd choice striker, then why should begrudge him staying another year?”
Yeah, right, It’s only money – 90,000 a week – BUT it seems to me that the decision to play Danny Welbeck in the recent “big friendlies” (against ManShitty and Barcelona) was a managerial decision about determining if Danny Welbeck would be the “3rd choice striker”.
Danny Welbeck passed the test with flying colours so it should follow that if Dimmy were to stay then he’d be the 4th choice. The business-of-footie is all about “what have you done for me lately ?” SAF is many things but sentimental is not one of them. Or am I missing something ?
CROoney
It is interesting that my opinion that Dimi is irreplaceable makes you “laugh your arse off.”
Your ridiculous description of Berbatov as “useless” saddens me.
Your description of our opinions on Berbatov as foolish, mindless and endless (blabbering) is wrong and rude.
How did you come up with your username CROoney?
denton, unfortunately your endless negativity is not missing.
It’s not your money Denton! Stop blabbering.
Check this out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/picturegalleries/8688310/Manchester-City-v-Manchester-United-move-of-the-match.html?image=8
This link is a series of snapshots – the real thing happened in real time.
Look at the number of ManShitty defenders behind the ball in # 4 – six, by my count – and see how they were sliced-and-diced by absolutely fantastic interplay, AT SPEED, involving Nani, Rooney, Anderson, Tom Cleverley, and Mr Danny Welbeck. The kids are alright.
WillieRedNut @ 13:27: “It’s not your money Denton!”
I know it’s not my money. What I’m trying to get at is the thinking by those who are tasked with spending and team-building. 90,000 a week for a “4th choice striker” – insurance ? or valuable player ? the managers have to make a choice, he can’t be both in the world of Glazernomics – is a lot of money. A LOT OF MONEY.
Watching SAF build the team – moving the pieces (“assets”) around – is a fascinating topic. His record over the years has been fantastic but he’s not always right – just mostly-right. If his past behaviour is anything to go by then one would imagine that whether (or not !) Dimmy is a “big time Charlie” will have no bearing on the OldFootieKnight’s decision-making.
SAF is like a shark – he’s got to keep moving. So, change is the only constant. And, of course, A LOT OF MONEY is always going to be a consideration when determining if he shells out 90,000 a week for a guy to be the 4th-choice striker.
I’m not saying that he might not do it – Dimmy does offer those silky skills, he does provide “insurance”, he does provide experience, and he is very professional in his demeanour. What I am saying is that when you take into consideration SAF’s previous willingness to ruthlessly cut ties, then it sure seem more likely – than not – that Dimmy is going to be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
If that happens will the saved-wages go towards paying a huge packet that WeeWes trousers every week ? Will SAF try to use Dimmy as a make-weight ? Or will SAF’s flinty character save the Glazers more money ? It’s not MONEYBALL but, then, the business of sports isn’t a fans’ wankfest.
@Denton
I agree mate Danny boy will become 3rd choice after recent times, SAF even put Owen ahead of Berba in the final so its pretty cut and dry.
Me personally would have liked him to stay but in the same repect I want Danny to make the grade and become a United regular.
disagree 100% don’t get rid of a world class striker who’s prepared to be a squad player,as i’ve mentioned before berba doesn’t rely on pace so age isn’t a factor he could play for another 4 or 5 yrs easy.he isn’t going to lose his skill and what does 10mill buy nowadays?.berba is arguably the most skilful player at the club.
Fuck me this article is made for all the berba haters to come on and gloat,denton were are you.Will not be visiting this thread again,won’t be able to handle all the shit that’s going to be written.
I’ll say it again how can a top scorer,voted mom more than anyone,have most match winning goals,not fit in? what berba produces on the field is contradictory to this article and all the other shit that comes from berba haters mouths.
I wouldn’t rank Welbeck ahead of Berbatov just yet.
Dimitar Berbatov is the reason i lost fantasy football last season. After the hattrick and the bicycle kick, i vowed that i will never take him out of my side, and will always be the captain until the end of last season. Why? Simple. His bicycle kick against liverpool is the fantasy of fantasy.
wayne
I salute you
We’ve always prided ourselves on giving the youngsters a chance, I think Danny deserves a shot tbh. Seeing as we sold JOS (for a ridiculously low transfer fee!), because his wages were quite high for a benchman, I think the same rule might apply to Berba.
He offers us variety and another dimension- and if he was on 50k a week, I’d keep him for that reason. But unfortunately he’s not.
In any case, I don’t think Berba is suited to the role of squad man. He seems to be at his best when he’s got a regular run of games to keep his form/confidence up. He’s not like an Owen or a Solskjaer who can not play for a few weeks, and still do the business when they’re called upon.
I think I’m right in saying Berba only scored twice in the last 3 months of the season? He was scoring for fun when he was playing week in week out, but once he lost his place, his rhythm disappeared, and most of the games where he was brought in, he struggled.
@Cedars 12.45
Ditto!
Sad fact of life, some fans would take a judas cunt like Tevez, back with open arms, but pour scorn on a top bloke like Berbatov.
@Denton
The manager has said, he’s not for sale! Leave it alone man. If this changes, I’m sure it will be discussed to death. For now though…
CedarsDevil
I salute you for saluting wayne!
wayne, you are very level-headed for a hardcore m’ucker!
@Wayne
True that!
Berba is a fantastic player, hope he’ll stay.
wayne , willie etc – Spot on lads.
Bloody good article Mr Hamilton.
I admire your bravery for highlighting the fact that Rooney despite his work rate and defensive qualities does at times have the midas touch, if indeed Midas is a middle eastern suicide bomber. Not delicate I’ll think you’ll agree. Berbatov is class, he’s infuriating because of his swagger and leaves us with head in hands after a 2 yarder is missed with the keeper the other end of the goal mouth BUT there is no other player in the world Id want instead of Berba with the ball at his feet with 4 defenders around him waiting for the strikers to get into the box. What I love about most about Berba is that when a ball looks to be going out of play a defender will just assume the ball is going out and like Manchester United in the last second he carries on play, turning on a sixpence and balancing the ball on the touch line to deliver a killer pass. Pure class.
smartalex – luckily sir alex doesn’t think he’s irreplacable…it’s blabbering because it’s load of shit because he isn’t, and that’s a fact…he was more out of the team then in when we played our best football last season in the most important matches..he’s good against uefa cup sides at best – he’s useless or he’s not involved mostly against top sides like chelsea,barca,arsenal,inter bayern etc…
and that’s not my hatred nor anger saiyng, that’s a FACT
but i say keep him as a back up striker when we need to unlock some average sides
Nice article by Callum — I’ll confess that similar thoughts have been playing around inside my head. Even a year or so ago, I was saying that the Berb should think about leaving — for his own sake. It’s to his credit that he didn’t, and given his contribution to last year’s massive #19, we should al be grateful that he didn’t
Several posters have made good points — SmartAlex, Willie and Balaji among them — but I must pay special thanks to Giles for his wonderful post at 10:55. Thank you for expanding the discussion of Berbatov’s role beyond the cosmetic. His contributions around the pitch have long been neglected and glossed-over. I wonder if that’s the impact of TV? It is devilishly difficult to gain a full appreciation of a player’s contribution — especially his movement and his contributions off the ball — from watching on TV, because you are only ever watching an isolated portion of what’s happening. I know of at least one top level coach who refuses to watch football on TV for this very reason. It’s one of the reasons I try to be restrained in my comments and criticisms of players — because my own viewing is limited to TV, and is therefore truly limited. But The Berb’s contributions off the ball have long been praised by SAF, who apparently knows a thing or two about such matters, and I am pleased to see Giles point out these aspects of The Berb’s play. If you understand football — I mean really, truly understand the sport, as opposed to being someone who is merely titillated by the occasional “trick” or stunning goal — then you must surely agree with the significance of what Giles is saying.
I think The Berb should stay, and I hope he does. As I’ve said repeatedly, I haven’t seen any problems with Berbatov’s interaction and combination play with young players like Nani and Hernandez. And we don’t know where injuries, form and the various ups and downs of a season will lead us.
CedarsDevil says:
I think the blabbering could be described as with out Berba we would NOT have won the league last season……
that doesn’t mean he’s irreplacable, he’s nowhere near the most important players in the team
CROoney
Every player is replaceable, the club simply moves on just like we did when we lost Robbo, Cantona, Keane and now Scholes… We always move on.
However we cannot take away the credit that Berbatov deserves, especially after his contributions last season and again i will say it, without him we would NOT have bagged number 19.
Oh, and I do wish people would stop pretending they are United’s Chief Financial Officer. Discussion of whether a player justifies his salary (or worse, his transfer fee — which doesn’t even go to the player), or whether we can afford it or would be better off spending the money elsewhere, is the lowest form of argument. Why? Because it’s an argument that requires detailed knowledge of two different areas — the club’s finances, and its football operations — and not one of us on here knows enough about either side of it to make that call.
Almost invariably, it’s an argument trotted out by those with an ax to grind about a player they don’t like, in some sort of attempt to present a rational reason for why that player should be sold (or not bought). And yet, if you don’t know about the club’s finances, and you don’t understand football the way SAF understands it, then you basically talking shit, so how rational can it be? Someone doesn’t like Sneijder — well, we can’t afford him (er, how the fuck would you know?). Don’t like Berbatov? We could use the money better elsewhere (er, you mean, on someone that YOU prefer?). I especially like the argument that he’s earning too much for someone who’s not a “starter” (given that Sir Alex’s continued, heavy use of squad rotation means we have no more than 4 or 5 “starters” anyway).
It is the epitome of everything I despise about about “playing football manager”. No-one who makes that argument will ever be taken seriously by me (not that that would sorry them, anyway!).
CROoney
- You say “sir alex doesn’t think he’s (Berbatov) irreplacable”
Please link me to a link of SAF’s quoted as saying that. Or is that just your opinion?
- Thanks for calling our opinions “a load of shit”. You are wrong and rude.
- You say “he was more out of the team then in when we played our best football last season”
This is incorrect and subjective. . You claim your biased opinion as if it were fact. It is not true.
-You say “that’s not my hatred nor anger saiyng, that’s a FACT”
That statement is an admission of hatred and anger for Berbatov. You hate our player.
How did you come up with your username CROoney?
oops, I meant … not that that would *worry* them…
StatesideAussie
‘Oh, and I do wish people would stop pretending they are United’s Chief Financial Officer. Discussion of whether a player justifies his salary (or worse, his transfer fee’
Cracked me that comment, brilliant!
Thanks for the mention StatesideAussie! It is always good to be appreciated.
Mostly, I just get attacked for defending our club against unwarranted attacks! A road I choose, and walk with vigorous determination, undoubtedly drawing ire from those who consider their rights infringed by my defense of absent heroes, legends and members of our great club. Their aggressively attended put-downs and epithets worry me not. They are most welcome to transfer their vile hate away from United and onto my rather broad shoulders. However, we all like praise when it is deserved.
Well I think Nani needs little more respect than that Scott, and with Berba, just keep everybody at the club, plenty of games, plenty injuries it will be.
SmartAlex , Cedars, Wayne etc
Lads U think your missing the point behind Dentons posts, i for one wouldnt want Berba to go I think he is class and completely agree with what Wayne states above but the point Denton is making is why keep him in SAF’s eyes if he is surplus to requirements?
Danny has played more pre season and yesterday was a huge indicator in SAF’s eyes that Berba doesnt fit into his new system. Lets not kid oursleves as as much as i love Berba’s best first touch in world football he didnt even make the bench in what is the biggest game in the world yet that fuckiing mickey did?
meant to say I think your missing the point above damn typos
Wow finally a Berba story, I thought we would go all summer not talking about it.
He’s not surplus to requirements though. He’s still at the club? As for Denton posts on Berbatov, there’s no Grey area. We all know how feels about him. My point, and other peoples points is, the guy is still here and the manager has dismissed any suggestions, that’s he’s for sale. Until that situation changes, I don’t see any need for discussion on his future. For the record, no offers on the table for Berbatov. No auction, as I see it either.
@Willierednut
Completely agree with that post and I was merely speaking hypothetically if the situation had arose
to add the point on being surplus as well is that Owen advises the boss has told him he will play a more vital role, The Pea and Rooney are first choice, Wellbeck looks to have been given the nod so without the boss saying your not wanted at what point do you say Berba doenst fit into SAF’s plans?
If he’s sold to another club.
@giggs12 hi mate said i wouldn’t make another comment but you dragged me back in.lol dentons been bashing berba for a few years mate,just at present he has a platform to preach because berba isn’t getting much playing time.i mentioned on a different thread it makes sense for wellbeck to get alot of playing time in pre season,sir alex can take a good look at the lad,i don’t take it as a indication wellbeck is ahead of berba in the pecking order at all.
Sir Alex called the berba leaving rumors rubbish,gill has come out and said berbas going nowhere and yet everyone who wants berba out choose to ignore this.same as the glazier haters calling sir alex a liar about having money to spend,even now some choose to say club is broke although its spent 50mill mindboggling really.these people don’t look at the whole picture just take facts or statements and distort them to fit their way of thinking .there has been only positive vibes from the club about keeping berba yet still all this negativity
giggs12gerrard0
It is impossible to miss the point behind denton’s posts. He has found a way to make the same point repeatedly on nearly every thread for the last 6 months. He is boring.
Further, he has ignored everything I’ve ever said to him. Even when he responds to other’s input he is almost unfailingly disingenuous, and disrespectful.
I expect that he sells insurance by day, and religion by night.
giggs12Gerrard0 @ 15:28: ” the point Denton is making is why keep him in SAF’s eyes if he is surplus to requirements?”
Right. That’s exactly what I wrote.
I am amazed at some of the other responses – by people who I respect like StateSideAussie – that suggests my point was playing “chief financial officer” or “football manager”.
My “point” is that UTD – as run by SAF- are a “what have you done for me lately” business; whose primary business is winning trophies, not salving the egos of its highly-paid professionals.
I guess wayne, Willie and smartalex just echoed my thoughts exactly
Of course Denton lol.
I maybe stuck in a long out standing argumnet then my apologies.
I guess the point I am making is simple Berba is class love him but ever since finding out in the concourse at Wembley he was ommitted from the squad I find it hard to see how SAF figures him in?
@Wayne
Sorry for bringing you back in mate but i could tell you were chomping at the bit so gave you an in
Ego Denton? Wind your neck in. Berbatov has never struck me, as having an ego. No need to lie. You’re fooling anyone here mate.
*not*
giggs12gerrard0
Perhaps you can apply your opinion of Park being left out of a CL final, yet still playing a big role, to your quandary expressed at 16:03.
@SmartAlex
Park played in the CL final mate?
oh sorry you mean 2008?
WillieRedNut @ 15:42: “As for Denton posts on Berbatov, there’s no Grey area. We all know how feels about him.”
Actually, you don’t know how I feel about him. I’m not a “BerbaHater” but have become a “BerbaSceptic” as he has – in five out of six half-seasons – flattered to deceive. BUT I have come to the conclusion that he’s the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I have never slagged him for being “lazy” and have ignored his “petulance”; I have always praised his “silky skills” and “fantastic ball control”. I was very enthusiastic about his signing a few years ago but I have been increasingly sceptical at his ability to dovetail with TheWayneBoy – and that was highlighted by the way that Chicharito literally ate Dimmy’s lunch in the second half of last season.
I was disgusted by the way that TheWayneBoy (and Mr Stretford) went about re-negotiating the contract but the way that it was resolved made it perfectly apparent that SAF values Rooney above all his other players. What do you think SAF’s reaction would have been if Ruud or JaapStam or Keane-o or Carlitos did something similar ? We know what his reaction would be because he was perfectly will to dispense with them – and Paul Ince and Mark Hughes and Kanchelskis and SirDavey, as well – when they were no longer part of the program. BUT – and it’s a hugely significant qualification – it was SAF who caved in and feathered TheWayneBoy’s bed.
This digression is relevant because if TheWayneBoy is the key player then the “others” gain (or lose) importance in their ability to dovetail with him. Chicharito does and so does Danny Welbeck but the evidence suggests that, in his view, Dimmy doesn’t. Of course, I’m “reading his mind” rather than giving credence to SAF’s utterances; I don’t deny that because in all professional sports it’s rather more important to follow-the-money than to read the managers’ lips.
giggs12gerrard0, I do indeed mean the 2008 final.
@SmartAlex
I dont think it is the same situation as since then Park has really shown up in the big games meaning that SAF really trusts him in the big ones!
If Berba all of a sudden changes the gaffers mind then fair play it would be the same but can anyone tell me the last biggest game Berba started in last year?
At least with CROoney, you know where you stand.
Wayne @ 15:56: “dentons been bashing berba for a few years mate,just at present he has a platform to preach because berba isn’t getting much playing time.”
That’s just not true. I welcomed his transfer in 2008. When Ronaldo and Carlitos left in 2009 I wrote that it was time for the Dimmy/WayneBoy axis to fulfil its potential. I wrote the same thing last summer – after TheWayneBoy’s injury in the spring of 2010 had thwarted our CL and EPL aspirations and Dimmy hadn’t been up-to-the-task of taking on the sole responsibility of providing cover for him. It could be argued – and I didn’t nay-say – that Dimmy was crucial in the first half of last season BUT he was effectively marginalized when TheWayneBoy hit form after the new year and Chicharito took playing-time away from Dimmy. And, I have to say in my own defence, that since the turn of the year I have not been “basking Berba” but, rather, providing a critical/sceptical analysis of his role in SAF’s plans.
I don’t mind your disagreeing with me – but, please, get your facts straight. And try to be a bit more subtle in the way in which you characterize my position.
The writer must be on the good stuff and I want some. How far away from reality will you go to defend a view that’s so skewed in the first place? Utter B***ocks.
@giggs12 lol doesn’t take much mate,these kind of threads bring people like CROoney out of the woodwork,my only way to show restraint is by trying to ignore them,just have a hard time dealing with these kinds of people without getting angry
@denton it seems like 2 years,if its only a year sorry about that,subtle is definitely a word that wouldn’t be used to describe me.Cloak it anyway you want, berba skeptic instead of berba basher go ahead.never seen any positive berba posts come from you.any chance you’re all over the lad,so i’ll stick to berba basher in my eyes thats what you are.
Ohh come on, cut Denton some slack….he is hardly the typical trolling berba/gibson/carrick basher now, is he? He doesnt think Berba has what it takes at Utd these days (from a playing style perspective), or reading from some of his clarificatory posts, doesn’t believe Berba has what SAF demands, and on evidence, could well be right on that ground. Whether we agree or not is an entirely different manner.
giggs12gerrard0
Having read your comments on RoM and elsewhere for a long time, I am well aware of your love for our Club. I know you to be fair and supportive, and what I’m about to say should be considered in that light, and known to be specifically on topic.
- At 16:03 you say: ever since finding out in the concourse at Wembley he (Berbatov) was ommitted from the squad I find it hard to see how SAF figures him in
- At 16:07 I say: Perhaps you can apply your opinion of Park being left out of a CL final, yet still playing a big role, to your quandary expressed at 16:03.
Asked and answered.
Then, in response, at 16:15 you say: since then Park has really shown up in the big games.
That implies that Berbatov should show up in the next big game after the CL final, which therefore adds weight to Sir Alex’ decision to retain the quality forward.
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Fortunately you and I are able to discuss Berbatov, as we both consider each other’s views, and do not twist, lie and misdirect in an attempt to convince of our views.
I’m not sure I agree about the “reliability” of Berbatov’s passing compared to Rooney. In almost every department Rooney is a superior player to what Berbatov is. Excellent footballer that Berba is, he’s never reached any type of consistency a Utd. 20 goals last season is his best return, but 13 goals came in 4 games.
That says it all about him for me, he’s completely unreliable, and untrustworthy. Fergie has clearly lost his trust in him, as was shown towards the end of last season (compounded by his dreadful appearance in the FA cup semi final).
If we were offered £18m, for a 30 year old striker with a year left on his contract, we would be stupid to turn it down.
On the flip side, respect to Berbatov who has never moaned, or bitched about not being in the team. The snub for the CL final was harsh, and to be honest didnt make any sense, but he has been completely professional in dealing with it. Fair play to him, but for me, he has never been good enough for Utd on a regular basis, and I’m not convinced he ever will be now.
Denton … my comment wasn’t aimed exclusively at you, but when you start talking about whether a “4th choice striker” is worth 90 grand a week, and Glazer-nomics and all that stuff, then you are playing CFO. It’s as simple as. If Sir Alex thinks Berbatov is surplus to requirements, then he’ll go. And if Gill or the Glazers or Sir Alex collectively decide 90 grand is too much for whatever role Berbatov plays, then they’ll act on it. My point is that passing an opinion on a player’s footballing contribution is one thing; but passing an opinion on the club’s budget and salary structure as well, is another thing entirely. Especially when it involves assumed knowledge that none of us are equipped with, and is then offered as a “reason” why the player should be moved on. It’s apparently not enough to say “I don’t think this guy is a good enough footballer for us”, people have to try to make it sound much more objective by saying, “I don’t think he’s that good — and we certainly can’t justify keeping him (or buying him) at that price.” And to present that as an argument, and then claim you are somehow not playing Chief Financial Officer, is bollocks.
@jeet point is denton been banging on berba for some time,nothing to do with what’s going on right now.Again no indication from the club berba is done quite the opposite so why are we having these discussions because of fans like denton who want him gone.
North Stand Tier 2 … I wonder, if I quoted some stats back at you (like Berbatov’s shots-to-goals conversion rate last season, which was virtually the same as Chicharito’s and twice as good as Rooney’s), would you then be one of those who say, but stats prove nothing? Lies, damned lies and statistics, and all that? Not saying you are, but I have run into it before with others. I do respect your comments about the CL final, however. And I am on the fence about accepting a good offer for The Berb — in the end, every player must have his price, the only question is, what is it? Cheers
Sir Alex Ferguson doesn’t trust Berbatov in big games. Fair enough, the proof is in the pudding. Berbatov was given a chance in last years FA semi, he missed a good chance (even David Villa has missed sitters), but instead of ‘getting on with it’, he suffered an on pitch ‘melt down’.
Berbatov has himself stated that he prefers the creative withdrawn role. There-in lies the problem, that is Rooneys prefered position.
I wouldn’t like to see Berbatov leave though. He HAS become a more effective player for us. He LOVES our club, and if Rooney fell victim to injury Berbatov would be my first choice as supporting striker.
now its back to the city miss give me a fucking break,scanner head coming on.need to find the bat and a swede,knew this thread was going to be bad for the blood pressure.
wayne … lol. I guess that’s what you have to expect when you’re the only United striker to ever miss a chance in an important match. He’s obviously not up to United standard, so I don’t know why you keep defending him.
Perhaps we could pay someone to take him off our hands?
A few points here-
1) I think Denton has it spot on- in that Rooney, whether we like it or not, is Fergie’s Number 1. So it’s all about who works best with him. That’s not opinion, that’s fact.
2) Nobody can question Berbatov’s talent or attitude. But all of a sudden, when people give their OPINIONS on him, if it isn’t 100% positive….they become a “Berba hater?” Do me a favour! When he’s playing for Utd, then I’m sure most people on here (bar a few trolls) are supporting him all the way. But does that mean we have to believe that everything is rosy, and that there’s no negative points to any of our players?
3) “Surplus to requirements” might be an overly strong phrase to use….but the principle has some truth to it. Fergie clearly doesn’t trust him for the big matches- that’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. Does anybody actually believe, that when we bought him back in 08 for such a hefty transfer fee and high wages….that this is how Fergie planned on using him? As a squad player? No chance, we all know Fergie intended on him being one of the core members of the side a la Rooney, Vidic, Evra etc. And for whatever reason, that isn’t how its turned out. If you actually think he was bought to be a squad player who rarely plays in the big matches, you’re fooling yourself.
The fact that Park was in the same situation as Berba- 30 years old, a year left on his deal- and was given an extension….whilst Berba has effectively been put on trial, speaks volumes. Not really the best way to treat somebody who played such a massive role in us getting #19……but football, and Fergie in particular, isn’t about sentimentality.
4) @ Stateside- “I especially like the argument that he’s earning too much for someone who’s not a “starter” (given that Sir Alex’s continued, heavy use of squad rotation means we have no more than 4 or 5 “starters” anyway).”…………….See my point above. Berba was bought to be one of those core, almost undroppable players. Explain why JOS was sold, for such a low fee, if not for the wages?
Because the 2 situations are very similar………….both JOS and Berba are 30, both players will have less opportunities next season due to the emergence of younger players, and both players were more than happy to play a squad man role.
@Stateside
No I do believe in stats, and shots to conversion are important. But in my opinion, there have been too many games, particularly away from home last season, where Berba was anonymous. Ofcourse, most of our players were, and responsibility cant fall solely on Berba for that, but he needs to be able to take those games by the scruff of the neck and drag Utd forward. That’s what Utd forwards have to do if they want to succeed.
Lets make no mistake about it, if we play away from home like we did last season, then we arent going to win the league.
Selling Berba doesnt solve that problem, but to me, if we can get £18m for him, and that gives us enough money to sign Wesley Sneijder, leaving us with Welbeck, Macheda and Owen as back up, its a no brainer for me…
Yeah..maybe he’s no good in a war…but boy does he light up the peace. My heart wants him in our squad as the icing…..if city can have Silva…why can we have Berbagold?!?
@smartalex – didn’t want to be rude, sorry about that. my bad…i guess it’s a habbit because people are usually rude to me when i’m not showing my mesmeration about berbatov…
as for SAF not saying that he thinks he?s NOT irreplacable – are you fucking kidding me ? do you realise how stupid that sounds ( again no offense)…have you ever read between the lines or have you heard about the expression “actions speak louder than words”…let me draw a little picture here – do you think that messi or ronaldo would live the same fate as he did the last season or ever since he moved to us ? would they be benched for the CL semifinals and finals as well as crucial games of the season ? no. why ? because they are irreplacable, they are one of the most , if not the most important players for their clubs.. why VDS wasn’t benched for the CL final and for all the crucial matches ? because he’s irreplacable or the closest thing to it…at man united there are no irreplacable players but players like rooney,vidic,evra and rio ferdinand are close to that and they are most important players of our club and almost an automatic selection…not only that berbatov is replacable, but he’s replacable by michael owen according to SAF..he is a squad player who gets handy against average teams
My opinion of Berba couldn’t be any different compared to Denton’s, but no need to put his opinions under the microscope. I think we know by now that the Berba issue divides us fans more than anything else. Like Jeet said, at least his posts are way classier than a lot of other stuff we’ve seen in this blog lately.
Anyway, one more thing I wanted to add. I see a lot of fans say that we should keep him as backup. I don’t think that will do any good. Fergie knows better than us that Berbatov is a player that relies a lot on psychology. Some may make fun of that, but it’s the truth and he is not a rare exception. Cantona also required special treatment at times. Anyway, if Berbatov is convinced that our only use for him will be as a 3rd or 4th striker, I don’t expect him to dazzle us on the pitch. That was clearly evident in the FA cup semi. A game that came a few days after Sir Alex publicly admitted that Hernandez took his place in the side. And when you’ve scored 20 goals until that point in the season and you realize that it’s not enough to make the others believe in you, then it can be quite demoralizing. So if Berbatov stays and realizes that no matter what, Fergie would rather go with Hernandez, Welbeck or Owen, then there’s no point in keeping him.
Fuck me,how many times does Sir Alex have to say berba was unlucky and had nothing to do with his play???????????? Hernandez got red hot and Sir Alex left a out of form rooney in to get him back to form.Sir Alex doesn’t trust him and thats a fact??????? its actually opposite from a fact its made up bollocks.All the negative points about berba is all hyperbole,stats and facts don’t back up any of the negative points,just made up shit including utds desire to get rid of him.
A great read, Callum summed up my feelings and stance on the Berbinator matter, we have 7 strikers at the club (3 unproven, chico’s, 2nd season, with owen’s injury record), on the other hand Berb is 30 and 18 million offer may be too good to turn down for a player that has never really commanded a first team shirt and has probably been treated poorly. His love for the club is undeniable, but l think if the offer is true, we should move him on and move on from there.
@Costas hi mate we normally agree on most things have to disagree about berba coming off the bench,he made a impact lots of times coming on as sub to win utd games.I’m suprised someone as level headed as you would use the city miss to make a point,every top striker misses chances just like every top keeper lets in bad goals.Berba was a top player last year whether starting or coming on as sub,don’t know were this berba needs special treatment comes from.
wayne
But Berba only scored 3 against the dippers, he missed a sitter and should have gotten 4.
Waste of space if you ask me
@wayne
Hi. I don’t look at it as special treatment mate. It’s different treatment and I used the Cantona example for that reason. I am not saying we have to use him all the time to keep him happy, but he has to believe that he has a chance of being a regular starter if he plays well. And I don’t believe that can happen anymore. I hope I’m wrong. I don’t see Berbatov as an impact sub. He’s scored once or twice coming off the bench, but I don’t think it’s something he relishes.
As for the City game, I didn’t use his missed chances to explain why he’s a flop or anything. But to me at least, it was clearly evident that he was carrying a huge burden on that day due to Chicharito’s emergence. As if he had to prove himself all over again.
Denton – I said no Grey areas mate, on how you feel about Berbatov. You mentioned lazy and other aspects, not me. You say, you’re not a Berba hater? I didn’t say you were. If other people think that, that’s their opinion. You don’t give the guy much credit, from all your posts, I’ve ever read. So, maybe you’re harsher on him, than other players. That’s my opinion anyway. You were doubting Cleverley’s ability to step up for United. Against city, he impressed many fans, including myself. Now on to Welbeck. He played well yesterday, but does that really mean, he leapfrogs Berbatov in the pecking order? I’m not sure about that. We all want to see young players given the chance to prove themselves at United. I’m no different to anyone else, in that regard. If an offer comes in for Berbatov and the club accepts that offer, I’ll be content with the decision to sell him. ATM, no offer is forthcoming.
@Cedars hi mate,the use of berbas miss against blackburn and city to prove points is just mental.Using the same theory,lets assume VDS flub against west brom cost utd the league would everyone be using that to say VDS isn’t utd quality and can’t be trusted? of course not so why does berba have to live with those two misses? Rooney doesn’t have to live with missing everything in sight for the first 10-15 games of the season.
People who use these type of examples to make reasons why berba isn’t utd quality just don’t want the lad here and it goes against all the stats.I don’t understand why fans dislike him he does nothing but good things
@Costas i just think you’re wrong about his mental make up.Take into account all the things he’s been through and yet he still wants to stay,if he wasn’t sure they’d be alot of clubs banging down the door if he put in a transfer request.Berba must be comfortable in his decision to stay,think we have to trust what’s going on in his own mind.
CROoney – I will try to put this clearly to bed.
-You said Berbatov is “useless in the most prestige competition” which is not true.
- I said “He is irreplaceable.” – which is correct. The skillset that Berbatov brings is not presently seen in players that are available to replace him. His is an uncommon talent.
- You then ‘laughed your arse off’ at that, and described my considered opinion as blabbering (foolish, mindless and endless)
-I said you were rude, that you saddened me, and asked where you got your name from
- you replied:
a) “sir alex doesn’t think he’s irreplacable”
b) “(smartalex is) blabbering because it’s load of shit because he isn’t, and that’s a fact”
c) “he’s good against uefa cup sides at best”
d) “he’s useless”
e) “that’s not my hatred nor anger saiyng, that’s a FACT”
f) “but i say keep him as a back up striker when we need to unlock some average sides
- I asked you to link me to SAF’s quote saying that he “doesn’t think Berbatov irreplacable”. Or is that just your opinion?
It turns out that is just your opinion. You’ve been broadly and specifically slating our opinions, and stating your views to be fact, when they are only your opinions. I’ve been politely stating my views and having your rudeness in response. Now you really take the cake:
You say to me:
- “didn’t want to be rude” but
- “are you fucking kidding me ?”
- “do you realise how stupid that sounds
- “have you ever read between the lines”
- “have you heard about the expression “actions speak louder than words””
- “let me draw a little picture here ”
- “he’s replacable by michael owen according to SAF”
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
You are spoiling for a fight. It’s what you want.
You have admitted to hating Berbatov.
You have not been decent conversation, and I hope you don’t address me again today.
However, say what you like. It’s water off a duck’s back to me.
I love Manchester United, it may be apparent. Do you?
willie … excellent response to Denton at 18:13 — including the last bit about any offers that might be received and even accepted. I wouldn’t like to think we are actively seeking to unload him. Like you, I love the rise of the young guns — the next few years, or even the next decade, promises to be all kinds of exciting. But it’s too early yet to be dumping our top scorer from the previous season. On the other hand, with any player, there’s always the chance of a top offer being received. If the club gets such an offer for The Berb and decides to accept it, and if he is willing to go (considering he is still under contract for at least one more season), then I too will be content. (If that happens, though, i will still defend him against those who, once he has gone, attempt to tarnish his time here.) I didn’t want to see CR7 go either, but we would have been silly to turn down 80m.
@wayne
Maybe so mate. Maybe I am underestimating his mental toughness. It remains to be proved I guess. The competition up front is a lot stronger than it was 12 months ago and he’ll have to suck it up I feel.
WillieRedNut @ 18:13: ” you’re harsher on him, than other players.”
Unquestionably. Why ? He came for a record-high fee and with glowing expectations. And, for whatever reason, he just hasn’t fulfilled those expectations – well, he’s been electric in one half-season (out of six). So, yeah, I expect that he has more to prove than someone like, say, Chicharito who was bought for “relative peanuts” (if you can call 6 million “peanuts”).
Maybe my expectations were wrong but I don’t think that the empirical evidence suggests that Dimmy has been much of a success at UTD – one half-season out of six. Benched for all the important EPL and CL matches. Only rose-coloured glasses would suggest that he has met the expectations that came with his transfer fee and the relentless pursuit by SAF.
Of course, “no bids accepted” – but three weeks to go. Maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see.
BUT, whether I’m right or wrong, I’m still sceptical of his “fit” with the kind of up-tempo attack that was on display yesterday.
One other thing, IF I’m wrong then I’ll be happy to admit it. In fact, I’ll be thrilled to admit it. I won’t hide from it. You can tell me so and I’ll eat humble pie.
Ask King Eric – didn’t I admit my “mistake” about Tom Cleverley ? (Yesterday, buried in the 800-plus posts on the Charity Shield. Do a search – it’s there !)
Sparkz … I don’t think berba was bought to be “one of those undroppable players”, as you put it. Remember, at the time we still had CR7 and Tevez, as well as Rooney. Rooney has never been undroppable, we all know that. And CR7 certainly wasn’t undroppable. True, CR7 wasn’t a pure striker, but in the year that Berba joined, that was essentially how he played. Berbatov has made over 30 PL appearances in each of his three seasons with us, including starting at least 60% of all PL matches in each season. That isn’t the track record of someone who’s thought of (by SAF) as a third-choice or fourth-choice striker.
Now, I can just feel that some people are going to come back at me and say, “ah, but how many games will he get this year?” The answer is: I don’t know — and neither do you. Only SAF knows that, and even he may have his plans upset by circumstances. So we’ll see.
@Costas why would he stay if he had doubts,contray to alot of fans opinion of him he’s world class and a top.top,player.not one club in the world wouldn’t take him in his acceptence to be a squad player,he knows competition just got tougher but doesn’t seem to worried about it.I’m in his corner all the way not just because of the fact i rate him very highly but also because of all the abuse he has taken while being at utd.most players would have been long gone,i have deep respect for him,he clearly loves utd
To say that rooney is “a player with half of Berbatov’s imagination and reliability with the ball” is a joke i think. While berb is an exceptional player there’s no way he’s more creative than rooney in my opinion. Think of it this way what would hurt the team creatively more, losing rooney or berbatov? I don’t think that even warrents a response because rooney is the creative heartbeat of our team. While i’d obviously be very sad to see him leave if berbatov was twice as creative and reliable with the ball as rooney he would have been the first name on the team sheet against barca and would have been able to carry us through the end of 09/10 after rooney got injured.
Berba has been at utd for 6 years hmmmmm must have been asleep for 3 of those
Come on Denton! Players don’t decide the fee mate. You know this. Not a good enough reason imo. His goals helped United win the 19th title. That constitutes a level of success for me. Has he been a raging success, in his tenure at United? No. I’d be a fool, to suggest otherwise. I won’t, however, consider him a complete failure. That’s a media driven thing. They hate our manager and hate United’s success even more. Berbatov is somewhere in between. All I ask of people is, support the guy, while he dons the Red shirt. Not much to ask, eh?
Denton … the transfer fee had nothing to do with him. If expectations were raised by the size of the fee, then it was the combination of Daniel Levy, Sir Alex and David Gill who are responsible for raising those expectations. I have always maintained that Sir Alex must have known what sort of player he was buying, and that The Berb’s performance has at least matched his performances previously at Spurs, and last year exceeded them. And The Berb has always said he was embarrassed by that fee. It can’t be the player’s fault that he hasn’t matched expectations that were raised by a fee that he didn’t set, didn’t agree to, didn’t pay, didn’t benefit from, and has publicly stated he found embarrassing. The only way the player can be responsible for any of that is if he was an asshole who simply never tried and obviously didn’t care — and The Berb has never been that.
denton just making up berbas length of stay at utd, one good 1/2 a season out of 6,really does show how big your bias is against him,you accuse others of tunnelvision.that’s pretty fucking rich coming from you.
wayne … i think Denton meant “one good half-season out of six half-seasons”. lol.
@Stateside my mistake mate didn’t know players contracts were based on 1/2 seasons.sorry denton 6 1/2 seasons does make 3 yrs.
Gentlemen, its a long season, we will need all the players we currently have, including Berbatov, whose contribution many seem to have forgotten during the first half of last season while Rooney was injured/pissed-off/haggling, etc. The season is won over the long haul, having a strong squad is what makes the difference, and we all know who is best at this. Having the best first XI wins you the CL but having the deepest squad wins the PL. Do we need to improve the first….yes, we could, but lets keep the strong squad that’s already there, what’s wrong with competition for places.
Cant understand why so many United supporters continue to place an asterisk next to Nani. He has to be one of the few players anywhere who is expected to deliver a perfect end product 100% of the time. So some of his shots balloon over the bar, passes go astray, but he still had the best delivery (assists) in the PL and voted player of the year by his own team mates. This is what you get with skill players, they will sometimes do stupid things, but they win you matches. His skinning of Arsenal left backs is priceless……..speaking of which, weren’t you just waiting to see a one on one with Nani and Gael Clichy yesterday
NO NO NO!!!!! Terrible article. Erase. Shocking. To say a player who has just won the golden boot in the toughest league in the world can’t cut it in Europe is nonsense. He might not be as quick as Hernandez, he might not have the toughness that Rooney does but the player is unreal. I personally think he has the most delightful first touch in world football. He’s not and never has been and never will be the type of player who’s going to drag us to a result in times of sheer adversity but when the red machine purrs like it should he’s unstoppable. There’s all the talk of sneijder now because Scholesy has retired but to be fair i think sneijder is the type of player we’ve been missing for more than just the forthcoming season and have we had that type of player i think we’d have seen a lot more from Berbs previously. He’s worth keeping in my opinion. Although i can see the reasons for his sale if it were for good good money but i’m and fan of the football not the business.
Mitko´s/ that is how in Bulgarian family and friends call someone called Dimitar/ is so obvious: A CLASSICAL CASE OF THE JEWEL AND THE SWINE, I apologize in advance to Man U fans. He is a talent which appears once in a life time, a real genius, a real entertainer and a real gentleman. Man U and SAF should forever ashamed by maiming him psychomogically and in practice stopping him on the way to football´s Olympus- togethere with Pele, Garrincha, Beckenbauer and the like. He should leave immeditale, he is alredy at the end of his career. He needs a team which should build its game around him, not use him as a crutch in various very dubious ” schemes”.
Points I’ve noted:
* My view of Berbatov’s mental make up is very similar to Costas. He wants to stay and prove himself because he loves playing for us and wearing the crest of Manchester United proudly. But, he is a “confidence” player – like Ronaldo was. I’ve heard stories of people saying that after a particularly bad performances, some people had to speak to Ronnie and make him feel wanted. I don’t think Berba is at that level, but I think he must feel that he is making an impact – like Costas has mentioned.
That is what I keep on banging about. As long as he was the focal point of our attacks, he was a brilliant player. And I’ve said this before also, once Rooney came back, Sir Alex went to back to Wayne like Denton mentioned. What good does that do to a player like Berbatov who thrives on confidence – like most any striker but more so in Berba’s case.
Another aspect is of course, knowing Sir Alex, I think he would’ve discussed Berba’s case with the player himself and made it clear how he features in his plans. If it is OK for player and manager, I can’t complain.
* I simply cannot buy into this notion of the price being right. To me the math is simpler than that: If Sir Alex wants to sell Berbatov, then it doesn’t matter if it is 18 million or 8 million, he will ask David Gill to haggle for a decent enough price and off load him. If Sir Alex doesn’t want to sell Berbatov – like he has already publicly stated – then no matter what the fucking price is, Berba is staying for good. It is as simple as that. The fact that Sir Alex will sell Berbatov if the “price is right” even if he finds him useful is absurd.
* On that same note, if Sir Alex wants to sign Sneijder, then it will happen whether we sell Berba or not. The notion that Berbatov sale is going to be used a make-way for bringing in Sneijder is completely absurd. The two transfers are completely independent except the fact that both are dependent on what Sir Alex Ferguson wants to happen. The Glazers will not force conditions like that on Sir Alex’s head – simple as that. If Sneijder doesn’t happen, it will be for a million different reasons, but that is not one of them.
This is a terrible article, imho. Who is this Callum fellow?
I for one will be very upset if he goes. He may not fit into our style of play, but he gives us a different option should our style not work in any given game. Also, he loves the club and has a deep respect for United rarely seen by a player who has not been grown and nurtured within the club. His mentality and philosophy is invaluable within the dressing room, Rooney could learn a thing or two from the Berb. Feel sorry for the fella.
I think Callum has a point. How would players like Cantona, Di Canio, Le Tissier – creative and imaginative forwards – fair in todays game? Berbatov is very much of the same breed as these. Are the truly talented footballers getting boxed out a bit by the athletic alternatives.
shebangsthedrum @ 20:45: “He may not fit into our style of play, but he gives us a different option should our style not work in any given game.”
Can’t argue with that.
And I’d go further than that and say (again – I did say it in one of those post-match threads on ROM, the day after the CL final) that SAF made a tactical mistake in not selecting Dimmy for the bench in that game.
BUT that’s looking backwards and we all know that what’s past can’t be changed.
About the fee – yeah, sure, he didn’t set the price but to say he didn’t benefit from it is a bit rich. Doesn’t the player get a cut from the transfer fee as well as a signing-on bonus/new contract from his new club ? Did his MrTenPerCent do his side of the business for nothing, too ? I know, I know – Dimmy would have moved to Manchester for free because he loves “our club” and has wanted to wear the red shirt since he was a nipper; pull the other one, it’s got bells on it !
Dimmy might not have “set the fee” but he did get a new, improved contract. And, yes, SAF must “have known what sort of player he was getting” – but, I guess that TheOldFootieKnight isn’t always 100% right, eh ?
SAF thought he was getting CantonaRedux but got Matt Le Tissier. A cynic might say “History repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce” but I wouldn’t.
Denton after your 21.58 post,I can see I’ve made a mistake why would I even think you were a berba basher.think that’s the worst,you posts are becoming more and more ridiculous
Good article – but harsh on other players !!!! – Rooney HAS imagination and his passing range is almost Scholes like, he can see out of the back of his head some times, he had a bad patch last year but he scored over 30 goals the year before that, he is versatile and never complains about where he is played, he has played on the left and first and second striker he is an absolutely phenomenal player, world class, admired globally and a league above Berbatov by any objective standard. Giggs, Nani, Cleverly, Scholes all have a great passing range and creativity and the twins and Evra and now Cleverlycan also pick a pass. saying these other players are predicable and somewhat limited or “boring” is bull shit. Move of the match at Wembly – Welbeck, Cleverly, Rooney, Nani – anyone who thinks these guys are not exciting to watch needs to think again, not to put him down, but they can do anything Berbatov can do.
I would also put Welbeck on recent form above Berbatov. Owen as well for sheer goals ratio and finishing. SAF is clearly playing Welbeck as 3rd choice and Berbatov will be fighting for the spoils with Owen, Machaeda abd Diouf. People bang on about Welbecks consistency without even looking at how he has played all pre-season and giving the guy a chance, he is not too young to play – look at how Pea established himself – and Berbatov is not consistent and has never been consistent for United, he is good in patches. His confidence and finishing flucctuate and he can hit 5 or miss 10.
I trust SAF and the manager , he is not a fool, he clearly does not rate Berbatov for big games nor see him as a regular starter bar when first choice players are injured – he used Rooney alone as sole striker in big games post – Ronaldo and when Chicarito arrived he moved Rooney to 2nd striker. The boss clearly does not rate Berbatov and I think the article does a good job of explaining why, he is slow and does not fit with United’s style of breaking fast. He make a useful contribution last season and has some nice touches but he can be equally frustrating and divide opinion. Above all the young players deserve a chance, we have young strikers who look great and they deserve to come in to stake their claim, Berbatov has had 3 years to stake his claim for a starting place and failed and the Boss is clearly not going to play him if the rest are fit but use him as a squad player.
Berbatov may love United, but so does Welbeck and so did O’Shea and Wes and others, Welbeck turned down a guaranteed starting slot at Sunderland and more wages, let the lad have a chance to stake his claim, he is the future and too good to be 4th choice striker. For those reasons I think Berbatov should move on, I believe in our young players and I think they will step up and prove doubters wrong. Also if they do not play enough, we could lose them.
wayne – I have to agree. It has become dreadful to see his name, and his comments never fail to disappoint. I’m convinced he sells insurance by day and religion by night. A one-track approach to drive his convoluted views home using every trick and twist that he can. When it suits him, he quotes the new testament, decrying the old. Then, in the next sentence he reverses the logic and says it proves something else. I have yet to see him partake in a decent and fair conversation.
Would you buy a second hand car from him? I wouldn’t.
denton and ‘arry by the time those 2 had finished you’d be leaving the showroom in just undies,no car,thinking it was a good deal.
another surprise NBI Red Onion thinking berba should move on,really mate would never have guessed that one,recent form wellbeck over berba,considering berba picked up a knock and has barely played just wondering what you’re basing that on?i think your drawing that conclusion from a couple of friendlies,what a laugh.
PLEASE will someone show me the sir alex quote that he doesn’t trust berba in big games?
its like AA my name is NBI Red Onion and i’m a berba hater,after those horrible putrid things you wrote about berba we all know were you stand,so save it
Stenis. Superb point. Good question. Think you are right. I loved Le Tissier but he was a lazy slob. Don’t think he would last two minutes in todays game. Cantona would stil just be Cantona though. Can play in any era.
Yes denton did apologise. Although did say can Tom cut it at Stoke on a cold Tuesday night. Course he can. He has played in shitload of games like that for Wigan and Watford. I can’t stress enough just how good Tom is and can become. A talent we aint seen at United for a while aside from Scholesy.
Essentially a nonsense article, albeit better written nonsense than the usual Berba bashing gyrations.
We sorely missed the likes of a Hargreaves or a Fletcher in MF, but the Champions league final also highlighted the dangers of not having the option available of changing the play up front. Perhaps it was a blessing in disguise that Berba wasn’t selected for that game – if he had some people would now be laying the CL final result at his door too.
It’s a squad that’s needed for the current campaign, as the more sucessful we get the more have to fight on all fronts. During the season some strikers will hit form, some will lose it (just like Rooney for much of last season), others will be injured or otherwise unavailable (as per Chico right now) and younger players will need to be bedded in. Not all opponents will pose the same problems. Competition for places is good in its own right and no player is undroppable. Unlike some on here I dont think SAF has ever been minded to build a team around a single player be that Rooney or anyone else, despite the machinations of the latter’s agent last season. SAF never has done and never will.
In short you don’t dump your most skilful player and top scorer out of the squad on a dubious premise( a top scorer who doesnt suit our play , now there’s novel concept ….!)
Everything the berba bashers say is just nonsense,nothing fact based whatsoever,all of them stay on message and repeat the same things over and over again.
Berba doesn’t fit in…..top scorer……mom more times than anyone last year…..more game winners..fuck me if thats not fitting in give me 10 more berbas please.
Sir Alex doesn’t trust him,never seen that quote if sir alex didn’t trust him wouldn’t be wearing the shirt
Just not utd class,hasn’t quite made it,see point 1.
Lazy doesn’t run all over the place like a cunt……plays his position and give the team shape
Misses to many chances,see point one and we’ll forget rooney went god knows how many games without scoring but thats ok with the berba bashers because perfection only applys to analysis of berba no one else.
repetition of lies repetition of lies stay on message just keep repeating the same shit that cannot be proven but hey why let the truth get in the way
King Eric, you’ve been rating Tom highly for as long as I’ve been reading RoM, and a lot longer than I’ve been posting. It was actually you that alerted me to him in the first place, and you’ve never changed that tune. I say this to show that Tom is not a flash-in-the-pan, but the genuine article.
He’s no peeping tom, that’s for sure.
i’m here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i’m all out of bubblegum,so bring on the fucking aliens
At least he’s getting a look in!
wayne – I’ve not seen ‘They Live’, any good?
@smartalex i liked it mate,best fight scene ever lasts seems like 20 mins,plenty of action,pretty funny and discussions can be held when stoned on its parallels and hidden meanings lol,worth a look
@wayne, thanks for that recommendation, it sounds like it could be a classic! I will watch it.
Wayne @ 22:36: “,I can see I’ve made a mistake why would I even think you were a berba basher.think that’s the worst,you posts are becoming more and more ridiculous”
I’m glad that you’ve been able to make the distinction between a BerbaBasher and a BerbaSceptic. Or do you think that it’s a distinction without a difference ?
KingEric @ 23:19: “Yes denton did apologise. Although did say can Tom cut it at Stoke on a cold Tuesday night.”
Was the humour of that “Stoke on a cold Tuesday night” lost on you ?
Having posted several hundred anti-Berbatov comments, he says:
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One other thing, IF I’m wrong then I’ll be happy to admit it. In fact, I’ll be thrilled to admit it. I won’t hide from it. You can tell me so and I’ll eat humble pie.
Ask King Eric – didn’t I admit my “mistake” about Tom Cleverley ? (Yesterday, buried in the 800-plus posts on the Charity Shield. Do a search – it’s there !)
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After a tirade of abuse there may be a buried apology, which may also include an escape clause ala “Stoke on a cold Tuesday night”, which in itself may be explained away as a joke.
I’m not laughing.
Stateside- Rooney and Ronaldo WERE both almost undroppable, no two ways about it! Undroppable is probably OTT- but my point is, those were the guys (along with a few others) pretty much guaranteed their place in the side.
You cannot tell me that we bought Berba with a view to him being a squad player. ‘Its the same as if we sign Sneijder- another 27 year old on a big transfer fee and big wages. These guys are bought to be BIG players who play very regularly, and definitely in the big matches.
In his first season, he played fairly regularly, including almost all the big matches. His second season, he still played a fair bit, but not week in week out as he would’ve been expected to, and he very rarely started the big matches. And last season- well, SAF showed his hand in the last few months, and in pre season. That’s my opinion of course, I could be wrong……Berba may become a week in week out player….but considering his partnership with Rooney hasn’t really lived up to expectations, I doubt it.
Sparkz, but see, I just don’t buy that argument. You say he was bought to play regularly, and you then go to make out like SAF has been using him less and less each year. In other words, you are trying to build an argument that he has been tried and he failed — and this is evidenced by his usage, since SAF has been using him less and less. Trouble is, that’s simply not borne out by history. The Berb’s appearance stats have been remarkably consistent: 1st year, 31 PL, 43 total; 2nd year, 33 PL, 43 total; 3rd year, 32 PL, 42 total. I know you will come back and say something about “big matches”, and I don’t have those stats to hand. But his CL appearance stats are also pretty consistent, and I don’t recall The Berb ever being used much in big matches. And before you or anyone else jumps in and says my last sentence proves a point, you know as well as I do that in recent years SAF has preferred a 451 for the bigger matches, and under that policy, there’s only one striker going to get a look-in — and that’s Wayne Rooney.
And in any event, as I have pointed out on many occasions in the past, in the PL, the significance of those “big matches” is largely a myth. Yes, as fans, they are the big days that we look forward to. But in terms of winning the league, the overwhelming evidence is that over the last 4-5 years, who wins the title isn’t determined by who has the best record against the other top 4-5 teams. It’s determined by who does best against the mid-lower teams throughout the season.
The reason for that is simple: the mid-lower teams have become remarkably good, and very persistent at, developing and executing tactics designed to minimize the points lost against top teams. They have figured out that if they can restrict the points damage (and even the goal difference damage) against the leading teams, then they have a better chance of avoiding relegation. Last season, going into the second-last weekend, West ham were obviously fucked at the bottom. But there were 7 teams above them all with real danger of being relegated. Even at the end, positions 10-19 were separated by only 8 points. So those teams have become very effective at minimizing the damage against us and the other top teams, knowing that a point saved here and there may make all the difference.
But for the leading teams, this is a big fucking problem, because it means that every match against those teams is a down-and-dirty fight for points. Nothing pretty about it. Nothing noble. And that’s half the teams in the league. Half the matches a top team plays every season are against teams who are fighting for survival and desperate to save every point, even every goal of GD. Just ask the dippers, who found this out the hard way in the fat spanish waiter’s last year: they trampled all over us and the other leading teams, but couldn’t take points off the Stokes of this world, and thus lost the title — to us.
So when people deride the Berb because he doesn’t play the “big games” and “only” plays the “crap teams” like the Stokes and Boltons and Wolves of this world, to me that’s just ignorant about what it really takes to win this league.
Good lord…United fans bickering all over…not good.
Have a few beers or vodka lads….! Cheer up
I dont know about Berba, I mean he is one classy bloke who has been nothing but professional and reverential towards United, but so were Wes and O’Shea and Phil Neville and Nicky Butt. So if the boss wants him to go, he probably will. And judging by Sir Alex’s actions lately, I think that is the case.
SO lets leave it up to Sir Alex, and chill the fuck out guys. Although I will say this, even if you dont like one of our players, you can at least be respectful and classy in your criticsm like Denton.
How can people be fighting after a performance by the young players like that…makes me wonder what would have happened if we had lost…
This is absolute crap… a very tabloidesque view… this is supposed to be a man utd blog…
@SmartAlex at 16.03
Hi mate sorry I couldnt reply yesterday as I was leaving the office and then parental responsibility kicks in lol.
Appreciate the comments and absolutely agree and likewise for yourself, that this is not a conflict merely just discussing our take on the situation.
I think we have come round to the same way of thinking and it boils down to how you put it. Berba could easily show up in the next big game and become irreplacable as Park did. As I always stated I actually love Berba and me and my old man have fell out manay times over it. I generally beleieve he has the best first touch in football and gutted for him its not worked out as it should for a player of his ability. I have also read your comments for a long time buddy so dont worry about me taking it personally I am well balanced ebough to understand there will be objections and diagreement on opinions but thats what I love about football.
Just to add to King Eric’s Cleverley!
King Eric is always advising on young talent coming through and I am also of the same view. I have been watching the kids for years at Moss lane as nothing gives me more joy than watching home grown progress through to the senior side. Cleverly is one player I have been banging on about for years and I must admit it come to the point when I didnt know if we was ever going to fit. A lad I met in the states when I was playing out there is a Watford season ticket holder and he says Tom is one of the best players he has seen at Vicarage road and they tried everything to buy him.
So when King Eric bangs out about Tunnicliffe then BELIEVE as this kid is the real deal and I for one cant wait for him to mature over the next 18-24 months.
The point about it being good for him to leave and find weekly football, there is something in that.
But he himself has said he’d rather retire than leave United.
I want him to stay and see out his career here.
But whatever happens, he’s already won many Red hearts as is visible above.
And he’s a class apart; he hasn’t got the appreciation due for his desire for beauty in his game.
He’s magical, Berba.
Screw you Berba haters!
I would just like to add something. For those who say our best performances were without Berbatov. I presume you did not watch CL final?
Berbatov and Nani carried the team for half a season during which Rooney could not even control a pass let alone make one. If anything, it was the first half of the season that won us the title, helping us keep pace with a Chelsea side brushing aside everyone until their self destruction. If we were not breathing down their necks at that point, do you think they would have been pressured to do that badly?
Ultimately, I say yes, although it is going to do football more justice to let Berbatov go, but we need him, even if it is not against the big teams in the big games. I am sure Sir Alex will tell you, every game counts, especially against the smaller teams.
For those who say Berbatov can only perform against smaller teams, you have just utterly disrespected all the team below the top 6. Are games against them not worth the same 3 points?
Berba is the answer to the creative midfielder we’re seeking. Just imagine Berbatov playing behind Rooney and Hernandez like Cantona did back then behind the strikers.
Just to add to Giggs12Gerrard0′s post at 8.36 on his Watford supporter’s comment about Tom Cleverley. I grew up not too far from Watford and still have friends in the area and all the Watford fans I know say the same thing, that Cleverley’s an absolute certainty to ‘make it’ at the top. Even more, I recently met the Watford Chairman who said the same thing, adding that Tom is a very level-headed, decent character, brought up the right way by his family and by United. He said you can really tell how United raise their kids, not just in football playing ways but in how to conduct yourself (Watford have had a couple of players on loan from United , including the young Jimmy Davis who tragically died in a car-crash). The Chairman (apologies, I can’t remember his name) said that Fergie’s brother had told him how highly Tom was regarded at Old Trafford and they expected good things from him.
Berbatov is and always has been pure class. Both on and off the pitch for United. After his performances last season I see absolutely no reason why we should move him on or even entertain the thought of moving him on. Besides, I just had my 2011-2012 season Berbatov home jersey delivered today
@smartalex – you’re limited…clearly..you have to be – you stand by your statement that a player who ‘s not even involved in the big matches is irreplacable…what to think of you then
@Giles Oakley
Absolutelty correct mate I think that is why we do loan so many players not because we are a better team but the way in which they are bred. It takes more than talent to progress hence the debate on young Ravel recently. More often that not most loans turn out in players making it or actually signing for the club. Chester and C Evans signed for hull, Ajose at Bury, Sunderland tried to but J. Evans, Clev at Watford, Wellbeck at Sunderland, the list is endless I dont know of any other team who has this ability to produce professional footballers.
CROoney – Think what ever you like of me.
You have already described me as
- blabbering
- speaking a load of shit
- making you angry
- fucking kidding you
- stupid
- don’t read between the lines
- uneducated in common expressions
- requiring little pictures to understand
- limited
All this because I consider Berbatov’s uncommon skill to be currently unavailable in the market, and therefore wise to retain. Your opinions are stated as categorically, and defended as incontrovertible facts. My one brief opinion has been repeatedly slated by you, and you have attacked me continuously. I strongly request that you desist from this line.
Stop now. Do not say another rude word to me.
Your despicable behavior is worthy only of contempt.
Be nice or shut it.
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
You describe Berba as:
- lethargic
- not top level
- misses sitters
- useless
- replaceable by Michael Owen
- you hate him
You are a self-admitted and practicing Berba-hater.
Your behavior is not that of a United supporter. It is that of an ingrate.
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
Where did you get your username from?
giggs12gerrard0 – Good afternoon mate!
Let’s hope that Berbatov continues to score plenty of goals and win plenty of matches and points for us. Also, let’s hope that his opportunities in high-profile games like Liverpool are frequent, deserved and rewarding.
Come on Berbatov, show us more of that wonderful football, and score plenty!
Come on United!
I think Smarlt Alex’s comment says it all on this thread, lets hope that indeed!
United United United
nice article!!!!!!!!!!
but there is 1 thing i wud like to share
lets take 2010-2011 season…
in 1st half before winter transfer window berbatov use to start and chicharito was on bench and he scored maximum of his 21 league goals in that half…but most of his goal were scored when rooney was on pitch.now for a statistics out of 21 goals scored by berbatov, 20 goals were scored when rooney was on pitch.in short rooney was the main man or the catalyst .rooney at that time was injured for couple of games and then his transfer saga and all..but when rooney didnt played berbatov couldn’t score..that is not same for chicharito. he does not want rooney to help him score…that why sir alex opted for him
in 2nd half of season chicharito started and berbatov was on bench…
for me it does matter if berbatov stays or no coz rooney is our main player
anyways if offer of around 15 million comes we should sell him…that would be good for him….
sir alex is intelligent as he knows he its no use to start berbatov as his best comes out when rooney is in form…..what if rooney gets injured (god forbid) then berbatov would be of no use..thts why this season he would keep macheda and welbeck even diouf to see how they play with rooney and sometimes without him…its good for future of united!!!!!!!!!
Let him go? Never. There is no room for sentimentality, but Dimitar Berbatov must stay.
smartalex
you have a thing
for quotting
and writting in
columns
yes he is useless in europe
hasn’t scored there in 2 years.
yes he is replacable according to SAF who
just replaced him with chicharito.
yes he misses loads of chances.
yes he is letargic and so on
and so on
someone compared him to riquelme above..been comparing those 2 in years..there’s a reason why riquelme never did anything for a big team…i love to watch him but i wouldn+t want him in my club…he just isn’t suited…
CROoney
FUCK OFF YOU CUNT!
Don’t talk to me again.
CROoney
You have been attacking me incessantly for days.
From now I will return the favour until you apologise unreservedly and desist.
CROoney is a lying piece of shit.
Stateside- you make a good point, but I’m sure if you delve deeper into the stats of his last 2 seasons, you’ll see that the closer we get to the end of the season- “squeaky bum time”- the less he seems to play.
Rather than taking last season as a whole, where he made a lot of appearances, look at the most recent trend, which was the final 3 months. As I said, I may be wrong, but with Hernandez’s partnership with Rooney, plus the emergence of Welbeck, I can’t see Berba becoming a week in week out player.
And sorry, but I refuse to believe that we paid £30m for a guy who Fergie never expected to use in the big games. Just not possible IMO, and if you remember in his first season, he played in almost all the big matches. Since then, he’s been getting less game time in the crunch matches. The 4-5-1 argument doesn’t wash either, coz we saw last season that he was playing with Rooney & Hernandez, so he’s quite happy to play 2 up front in the big games.
Lemme also add-
At no point will I ever criticise Berba for “only” scoring against the likes of Stoke. Coz as you rightly pointed out…every game in this league is tough. But it’s more about the level of PRESSURE there is on a game. And you can’t deny that games against the big 4, games in the Champions League, and any matches in the final 6 weeks of a season have a far higher level of pressure than anything else. And in all 3 of those categories, he generally hasn’t produced. He was bought to be a BIG player, and big players produce when the heat is really on.
Rooney played like an absolute drain for the first 2/3 of the season……but in pressure situations, when the stakes were at their highest, in the last couple months- he regularly came up with the goods.
In any case, if Berba was to leave- I don’t necessarily think we’d struggle against the smaller teams who park the bus and have a “unique” brand of football. We have MORE than enough firepower in our side to break them down. Rooney & Hernandez formed a great partnership because they’re a combination for both types of opponents.
If we play the smaller teams who’ll defend deep…then Rooney has more space to operate in and work his magic. If we play against a team who pushes up, Hernandez will murder them. It’s almost impossible for opposing teams to combat….the only way they can nullify them is if they control our midfield and simply stop Rooney and Chicha from getting the ball/midfield support, as Barca and Arsenal showed.
SMARTALEX – YOU HAVE ISSUES BRO…YOU REALLY DO…MAN UP A BIT…I HAVEN’T ATTACKED YOU AT ALL.IT’S JUST THAT YOU TALK CRAP
true, there are no easy games in the league, but there are some tough games and tougher..
and obviously he’s not used in the tougher ones
CROoney
You have been attacking me incessantly for days. All because I consider Berbatov’s uncommon skill to be currently unavailable in the market, and therefore wise to retain.
Despite my polite responses and regular requests that you desist you shout, and accuse me of
- blabbering
- speaking a load of shit
- making you angry
- fucking kidding you
- being stupid
- not reading between the lines
- being uneducated in common expressions
- requiring little pictures to understand
- being limited
- having issues
- needing to man up
- talking crap
All because I consider Berbatov to be irreplaceable.
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You are a self-admitted and practicing Berba-hater.
Your behavior is not that of a United supporter. It is that of an ingrate.
You deserve the fate that befalls you. You earn the universal hatred that you feel.
No polite or reasonable comment will detract from your abhorrent nature, until you
stop your attacks!
ignore that him, smartalex
anyone who bashes our players without logic is himself not a support of the club, notice how nobody is bothered about what he says?
I will try that Marq. You might have to remind me though! Thanks for caring, buddy!
It’s more than fair to say that we wouldn’t have won the league last year WITHOUT Berbatov.. so haters.. please… fuck off
CROoney.. your acting a bit like your namesake pal.. a twat
Sparkz @ 14:15: “If we play the smaller teams who’ll defend deep”
I think that this is based on the-day-before-yesterday’s situation. I’ve noticed that the “smaller teams” are more willing to have-a-go and hope to catch lightning-in-a-bottle. Certainly, they know that they’re unlikely to get much out of parking-the-bus not only at OT but also at AnFailed, The Emirates, Stamford Bridge, Wastelands, or even WhiteHartLane. The ultra-cautious approach is only evident at the very end of the season when a goal-difference might be crucial but in the majority of matches the “smaller teams” seem to have had a change in mentality and try to keep it close but also try to score against the run of play. This seems to me to be an evolution in the way the game is played.
bero is a dream player at utd and don’t forget bero is last year top goalscorer please sir alex fesguson don’t sell him!!!!!!!!!!!!! my top team:
1 utd all da way
2 city
3 chelsea
4 spurs
5 arseal
And young is brillant signing utd will win da glory 20 pemiership and da champion leauge this year
100% agree with CROoney. This smartalex is a twat.
what the fuck’s wrong with not liking berba? good riddance to bad rubbish.
“You deserve the fate that befalls you. You earn the universal hatred that you feel.
No polite or reasonable comment will detract from your abhorrent nature, until you
stop your attacks!”
lmao, go on kid – this is pure gold…gold i tell ya…man you got issues…
i’m actually starting to think that you’re fukcing me around – surely you can’t be that, erm strange to say the least, eh smartalex
lol, polite responses ? sure –
“FUCK OFF YOU CUNT!…
CROoney is a lying piece of shit.”
do me a favour will ya – don’t be that polite to me…please
oh and that statement in the article how messi and ronaldo lost their swagger or whathever – utter crap ! i mean have you even seen ronaldo play last season ?
hi manchester fans utd will win da pemiership with bero and young!!!!!!!!!!!!!
booch
Hello yourself! I agree, we will win the premiership. Who is bero? Is that Berbatov?
yes berbatov stay berbatov last year top goalscores and my top 5
1 utd all da way
2 city
3 liverpool
4 chelsea
5 arseal
And will utd ever buy sneijder and young played brilliant on sunday!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree we will win da premiership and da champion leauge
booch
Ashley Young played very well on Sunday. He will be a top player for United.
Berbatov can get another 20 goals this season.
I think that we will bring in 2 more players. one will probably be Sneijder. We all trust Sir Alex, and i already feel good about this season; so agreed,1st place for United.
Beautiful article. Glad and every bit relieved to see I am not the only one that sees Berba as a class act. The fact that a player would prefer to retire at United instead of being sold is pure loyalty. You don’t get that much these days. Sentimentality or no, I support football and not business. I love Berba, his attitude, silky touches, loyalty, level-headedness and all. I’d love to see a retirement party for him at United.
@ Wayne
August 8, 2011 – 18:57
Berba has been at utd for 6 years hmmmmm must have been asleep for 3 of those….Totally hilarious. I’m cracked up pretty!
Berbagod