On a day where United were guilty of just six more fouls than Arsenal, Arsene Wenger has continued his bitter/sore loser routine by branding our club “anti-football”. Of course, all of this is in defence of the divers he has in his team. I don’t know how Arsenal fans feel about this one, but I certainly wouldn’t enjoy Sir Alex Ferguson making excuses for diving and trying to paint it as not being such a crime.
Having Cristiano Ronaldo in our team lead to a great amount of joy but also a great amount of embarrassment too. My worst memory was probably our 4-1 win over Derby the season before last. We were 3-0 with an hour played and the result was never in any danger. But in the last minute in the pouring rain, Ronaldo dived to win a penalty. It was so needless. But to give it context, Ronaldo had been booked in our previous game for diving against Fulham, when in actual fact he should have been awarded a penalty.
BBC: Ronaldo was undoubtedly the star of the show but he was unable to finish the game with a flourish – his final act of note seeing him harshly booked after he raced on to a Giggs pass and fell as he tried to hurdle Niemi.
So, I guess he thought, ‘fuck it. I get booked when I’m fouled, let’s see if I can win a pen when I’m not.’ And he did. It was still totally cringeworthy and embarrassing though and I would never deem it acceptable or worthy of defence, as Wenger has done today.
Wenger was asked about Eboue’s dive but he refused to criticise the player. In a week where one of his players has (ridiculously) been charged by UEFA for diving, surely Wenger can see how stupid it was for Eboue to do that, aside from the embarrassing and cheating aspect of him going down? Nope.
“I think it is difficult with diving,” he responded, when asked about the Eboue dive. “Sometimes players dive to escape being hit. It’s not always necessarily diving because you want to dive. Sometimes it’s a way of getting out of the way. The borderline between being sensible, being shrewd or being a cheat is very slim so, in some cases, to assess which is which is very difficult.”
Ok, that’s fair enough. Clutching at straws a bit but it makes some sense. The problem is when Eboue went down, he then turned to the referee, holding his hands out, as if to say ‘where is my free-kick?’. Had he tumbled to the ground to ‘escape being hit’ then he would have jumped straight back up again when he realised no contact had been made. He didn’t do that though, he appealed for a freekick, confirming that he was trying to deceive the ref, not just get out of the way of a non-existant Evra challenge.
There was a difference in six fouls, as adjudged by the referee, which is neither here nor there. He was a fussy ref and was handing out free-kicks for nothing, and his fussy nature was confirmed in his ludicrous decision to send Wenger off deep in to stoppage time.
“I have seen a player who plays on the pitch only to make fouls,” he said. “For me, this is a point that is more urgent than diving. The players who are never punished, who get out of the game without a yellow card. I think it is more anti-football than a player who did what Eduardo did. Look at how many deliberate fouls some players get away with. That’s a bigger problem because it cuts the flow of the game. And people pay to see football, not free-kicks.”
The Guardian live text:
20 mins A few sharp tackles going in, Song hacks down Fletcher but play is waved on.
23 mins First yellow as Song absolutely mows down Valencia, who had just beaten a couple of players. He was nowhere near the ball. Ouch.
Sky Sports live text:
31 A fantastic run by Evra is brought to a halt by William Gallas who gets a yellow card for his trouble.
In a period of ten minutes there were three free-kicks awarded in United’s favour for cynical challenges. I am one of the people who pays to see football, not free-kicks, but does Wenger only have a problem with what I’m paying for when it’s his team being fouled?
But then, this isn’t the first time Wenger has accused United of such things when wearing his bitter in defeat hat. When we ended their unbeaten run at Old Trafford Wenger claimed we kicked his players off the pitch. That day there was a difference in just three fouls with Arsenal committing more.
Darren Fletcher could have seen himself booked and a penalty conceded for his challenge on Arshavin. It had no effect on the final score as Arsenal scored from the resulting attack, seconds later, but we could have had no arguments about a yellow card there. Regardless, the media are assuming Fletcher is the player Wenger is singling out for criticism for escaping a booking. I’d agree, Fletcher should have been booked in that game, but are we really going to have a row about one player getting booked or not? Isn’t it all just a tad petty, Wenger?
The fact is, United were dreadful for the first 45 minutes and Arsenal couldn’t make us pay. Over the period of 90 minutes, the only other shot that caused Foster any real problems was van Persie‘s at the start of the second half. So whilst it is certainly a case of back to the drawing board for us, following those terrible tactics, I’m not too sure what Wenger or Arsenal fans have to be too happy about today. They were the better team, no doubt, but even when playing such woeful opposition as United in that first half, Arsenal still didn’t look great. Think of Arsenal against Everton a few weeks ago, they looked great then, but did Everton really play that much worse than we did in that first half?
Had Arsenal had a player like Darren Fletcher on the pitch, chasing down every single ball, putting in challenges, making the opponents feel pressured to pass, maybe they would have left Old Trafford with a scoreline that better reflected how they felt they played. As it is, nobody on their team worked hard enough for a victory, and whether Fletcher deserved to be booked or not, Wenger’s complaints are only there to cover up the truth. 1. Arsenal should have won but they didn’t do enough to get the three points against a poor performing team, and 2. they still have a problem with diving, in a week when diving was the last thing any of their players should have been doing.
Three points in the bag and Wenger’s bitter complaints make it all the sweeter.
Man Utd News 24/7
My problem with Arsene Wenger is, that he believes that there is only one way to play football and if anybody deviates from his way will get criticizes. The Best thing he could have done is to take a long hard look at his team and think, Why did they lose the game? On the other hand SAF needs do something about our midfield. Fletcher is looking like a giant but he is not getting any kind of support in the middle of the Park! And Valencia, Please run at the defenders!
quite a stunning attack when we’ve seen the actions of his players this week! thank god for it cos it was just getting too weird having wenger and sir fergie being so nice to each other! it”ll b fun to see fergie roll out the true FACTS about this one
I dunno what your issue with the diving situation is Scott. It is about time they took a tough stance and tried their absolute guts out to stamp it out of the game once and for all. Here in Australia they decided to give players a two game suspension if they are caught diving before the local season started.
As a result we haven’t seen one, so the tougher the stance the better it is cos all it does is make them look like pussies and really bad actors and we dont need that in our beautiful game.
fletcher commetted 20 fowls in asrenae book because song was the weekest ive ever seen a player , when a challange was put up to him he hit the ground
I think the only reason Valencia was not running at defenders was because he was up against Gael Clichy. In a foot race against that guy, he would have lost and that must have been the plan.
ok arsene.how cme 6 of your players were booked and only 3 of ours?eboue loves to make a fool of himself.he has becoming a laughing stock.got sent off for a disgraceful tackle on evra in the fa cup last year
amen
urval – spot on, Clichy is one of the only fullbacks who Ronnie couldn’t beat. Him and perhaps Cashley.
You won’t find a single person affiliated with Arsenal defending Eboue after his dive – Wenger included. Your headline is ludicrous and not even related to the quotes you’ve pulled.
Wenger never publicly criticises his players. You’re an idiot if you don’t think Wenger will punish Eboue after his antics, especially after the midweek debacle.
Wenger has always been bitter in defeat – but when a blatant penalty on Arshavin is ignored, and then Wenger is sent to stand with the United fans for the last 5 seconds of a game in an absolutely farcical series of events, I think he has reason to be bitter.
And great post “Gotta hate tiny tears”, you really add credence to the article with your endless stream of hilarious spelling.
Before anyone queries, I’m here because this site shows up on Arsenal’s page on newsnow and even though I don’t have to click the link, I felt compelled to see what other fans think.
Nice to see no stupid comments so far. Eboue’s dive can’t be defended, I know he likes to defend his players, but I’d say that was a ‘I didn’t see it’ moment. Eboue is a complete moron sometimes.
The amount of cards we got was ridiculous, but it’s Old Trafford so ridiculous things happen to the opposition.
I agree there’s no point dwelling on the controversies unless a complaint is going to be made, what’s more important is to make sure we don’t throw away a game like this again, which we should have won. That was the most ridiculous thing of the day.
No ones mentioned the chanting at Wenger, surely that was totally out of order? It goes WAY beyond banter. Must mention the fans that appeared to be being quite warm to Wenger, if I saw it correctly, it was nice to see.
6 more fouls yet how many less bookings?
Now first off I’m an Arsenal fan and i think that i speak for nearly all Arsenal fans when I say that Eboue is not the most popular player at the club. His attitude and his antics (including his constant diving) resulted in him being booed for a few games at home last year. He dived on Saturday and was rightly booked. He is crap at diving and always gets booked! Wenger should not defend him as very few Arsenal fans would.
On the foul thing i think that if you were to look at the game as a neutral you would say that it was strange the both Carrick and Fletcher escaped without a yellow card considering how many Arsenal players were booked. And if Feltcher had been booked and a penalty given in the 20-25 min during the game i think that it may have changed the result as he would have had to curtail his ‘tackling’ game.
On the whole anti-football thing – Wenger has his view of how football should be played and he sticks by it. But he is wrong to say that United were at fault – each team is entitled to play whatever way they want (within the rules) and the team who scores the most goals gets the points.
Well done for somehow getting all 3 points but i think that this is the worst United team for years and i cannot see you making it 4 in a row. Alas unless we spend I cannot see us stopping Chelsea.
Good luck for the rest of the season and looking forward to the return match where hopefully we’ll have a neutral ref?
PS – Valencia – what a waste of money
Fuck wenger he has obviously thought fuck it we can’t win the league by playing decent football so just dive anywhere and anytime possible cheating pricks. To be fair man u were poor on sat but it’s ok to play crap and grind out a win against a decent side. Wenger is just a sore loser.
Some fair coments there. Arsene doesn’t like losing does he? That said, his comments always look worse out of context and in print (prefaced by “Wenger slams Man United” type headlines) than they really sound when he is interviewed. That’s true of all managers (except Neil Warnock whose rants are genuinely intemperate.
I agree that Wenger should NEVER have defended or made excuses for Eboue’s dive. He should have said, “Eboue fell with no contact and it was unsporting of him to have claimed he was fouled.”
But I fail to see why this merits singling out by you in this article. I mean, if you can name me JUST ONE example, just one, in all Alex Ferguson’s time as Man United manager when he has openly criticised his own player for cheating (and we all know Van Nistelrooy, Rooney and Ronaldo have given him plenty of scope) your rant will be fair enough. If you cannot, frankly it just sunds sanctimonious, hypocritical and two-faced.
I think you will rarely play as badly and win again against quality opponents. I was heartened as an Arsenal fan to observe that we have little really to fear against Man United except bad luck. 7 times out of 10 we would have won that kind of match – and 7 times out of 10 we probably will for the rest of the season. With Nasri, Fabregas, Rosicky and Walcott to return the future is bright.
Congratulations on the win by the way. But I suspect you will not be terribly encouraged by it. The tide is turning…
I’m appalled at the gall of Wenger to impugn Manchester United or, by implication, Darren Fletcher.
What right has he to criticise – the manager who once played 11 behind the ball for 120 minutes in the FA Cup final to force a penalty shoot-out, which was his only chance of winning? A manager whose player cheated and resulted in Fletcher missing the European Cup final? A manager whose players dive shamelessly? A manager whose side who have almost the worst, if not THE worst, disciplinary record in terms of red cards in Premier League history?
If anyone should know what anti-football is then it is him.
But because our southern softie press don’t see the big picture, are too much in thrall to Carlo, ‘Arry, Arsene or Franco, they take their comments as gospel without question, often failing to see the real story. Talk about news management.
Personally, I thought Fergie got it dead right tactics-wise on Saturday. He knew the way Arsenal play, and decided to match them up man for man. He knew they would like to play with the ball at their feet, pinging it around and making lots of pretty patterns. So he allowed them to do it – but in the areas where it would seldom hurt United. They had little real penetration.
The flaw in Fergie’s plan was that his own creative players – principally Carrick, Giggs and Valencia – were not on their game, which meant United’s own earlier attacks were breaking down too easily. Want proof? When Eboue was replaced by a striker (and another diver) Fergie matched them up by bringing on Berbatov. And in a 4-4-2 v 4-4-2 contest, we should have scored more.
Like 99 per cent of the 75,000 at Old Trafford on Saturday, I thought the referee/4th official’s decision to send off Wenger was ludicrous in the extreme. The pair made themselves look absolute prats. Like most of the crowd, I applauded the Arsenal manager. And I was particularly embarrassed and angry when those disrespectful – and puerile – paedophile chants started rigning out. We should be above that. But any sympathy I had for Wenger has disappeared with his rant.
Another point: in the first half Van Persie was guilty of one of the most outrageous dives in a bid to win a penalty. The ref saw it but waved play on. Soon after, Van Persie was booked for fouling Giggs. After the ref then marched out the 10 yards for the resulting free-kick, Van Persie and another player closed the gap down on the free-kick while the ref was looking the other way. That’s 3 yellow-card offences. (but clearly not anti-football!)
Finally, Fletcher. Wenger clearly has a real problem there. I can’t recall whether Fletch has ever played in a losing United team against Arsenal, but he’s certainly played in – and starred in – a great many winning performances, starting with that FA Cup semi-final at Villa Park when he and Keano completely dominated Vieira and his pals. He also hit two in that 4-0 FA Cup humiliation at OT (oddly enough, an Arsenal player was sent off in that one, too). Then there was the European Cup semi. Fletch seems to have the measure of Arsenal – and Wenger clearly doesn’t like it.
Wenger’s team do play attractive football, but in areas where it seldom hurts. But you don’t win matches or silverware for being the best at keepy-uppies: you win prizes by scoring goals and beating opponents.
Yes, it always hurts when your team loses. But Wenger would do well to take a leaf out of Fergie’s book. While the boss might be seething inside, these days he always loses with good grace and is never dereogatory to the opposition.
Poor arsene. Eboue made a laughing stock out of himself. I fear all this talk is only going to get worse after the referee apologises to wenger.
Eboue’s dive to get a free kick is one thing, but he wanted more than that. He wanted Evra sent off. In my book that is FAR worse than diving.
Eboue is a disgrace and so is Rooney.
But the biggest disgrace are the plebians singing about AW being a paedophile.
As an Arsenal fan I love Wenger to the end but he does himself no favour with his post match comments which are bourne out of frustration.
I don’t really care about the chanting aimed at Wenger at the end of the game, put any opposition manager in any home stand across the league and they’d recieve the same treatment, the Emirates included.
What I did enjoy though was how well Wenger took the abuse and that some United fans obviously saw the funny side and clapped.
Fair play.
Did sir alex ever criticise Ronaldo? Did the media he selectively speaks too ever ask him?
You pull quotes from wenger all over this site- he has loads and gives you plenty of ammunition. Why? Cos he never refuses an interview unlike your manager.
Listing stats is irrelevant. Six arsenal players were booked cos the ref was atrocious (especially the Song, Sagna and van persie ones). If the ref was on his game rooney wouldn’t have been on the pitch (as usual)
The quantity of fouls committed by your team is not the point- how many of those were committed by fletcher?
More rubbish shoddy crap from this site.
6 of ours being booked and only three of yours being booked is exactly his point.
For the match Fletcher played, it is laughable for him to escape without a card. You can brand it “harrassing” or whatever you like, I’ll call it what it really was: running around kicking people in the back of the legs after they’ve passed the ball.
It’s cynical anti-football no matter how you try to defend it. Its purpose is to cause niggling injuries and make players fear getting the ball next time around. I’m not saying our players don’t make bad tackles, all I’m saying is that Wenger’s gripe is that 6 of his were booked while Fletcher wasn’t. He saw RvP get booked for the EXACT same tackle Fletcher put on Arshavin.
As for Eboue, he’s a diving cheat; always has been, always will be. He’s become something of a cult hero at Arsenal because there’s somehow something loveable in his despicability, but I won’t defend his dive yesterday.
But I will say I find it beyond ironic that a group of fans who idolised the world’s penultimate diver for the last however many years and have Wayne Ronney in their team can have a go at others for diving.
Especially considering Rooney dove yesterday as well, which more and more of your lot are beginning to begrudgingly concede. He took any kind of touch he could, a touch which just so happened to go straight out of bounds, and then went to ground.
Sure, he ran into Almunia’s arm, but he was going down before any contact occurred. Besides, running into an arm doesn’t make you go down like that. His intent was to get a touch on the ball and then go to ground; no different from Eduardo vs. Celtic.
Go watch a slo-mo replay and then come back and tell me anything I said above is false.
And while you’re over there, check out Rooney’s dive against Arsenal to end the 49 game unbeaten streak. You know, the one where Sol Campbell never touched him and he went to ground waving his arms for a foul, just like Eboue did today.
Your headline bears no reference to Wenger’s quotes. And your hypocrisy stinks, you think just because the biggest diver in Premier League history has left United you can now act holier than thou to every player who dives? You still have divers, cheats and thugs in your squad, but you have the audacity to call Wenger a disgrace for defending his player. Right, because Ferguson always slaughtered Ronaldo in post match interviews after he’d dived? Like he slaughtered Vidic after what happened with Rodallega?
Maybe your article headline should be attacking the pond scum present at Old Trafford for singing that the manager of my team rapes kids!!
From a group of fans who so rightly reach out with anger, anytime that songs about the Munich tragedy ring out from the Kop, i and the rest of the civilized world expect better.
The peadophile chants plumb the same depths as those revelling in the fact of young men destined for greatness lost their lives on an icy munich airstrip. All those fans who partook on saturday would do well to remember that the next time Liverpool or Leeds fans disgrace themselves and the memory of lost souls!
As for diving, you guys expunge the memory of CR7 so quickly from your minds, don’t you. Can’t recall too many times when Fergie went to press with words of indignation after one of ronny’s flip flop shows.
You’re either a hypocrite or an idiot. A top manager would never publicly criticise one of his players…, rightly or wrongly.
Case in point…, Fergie stayed silent after Shrek lost control of his limbs like a geriatric before Almunia had ever touched him. And funny how my mind is taken back to that game when our 49 match unbeaten run was ended courtesy of a dive and GBH from the Neville sisters.
Match ref:
71: Eboue dives and receives a yellow card
71: Eboue is substituted for Bendtner
I think AW´s actions speaks for it self..
Oh boy Arsenal fans continue their bitterness – surprised AW has carried on.
No mention of his beautiful players loosing the plot
No mention of Diaby’s daft positioning for the own goal
No mention of Eboue diving like an idiot – oh sorry I forgot it’s ok for all Arsenal players to dive because Eduardo got a broken leg and so now they are all protecting themselves – Psychological again Arsenal fans but you can’t see it anymore
No mention as mentioned of what RVP was up to in the first half etc
Oh and Gerry Gooner
Your manager had an interview but how immature of him to imply everything and not get to the point – what is he not brave enough?
I forgot AW doesn’t see anything that Arsenal does – he only sees the opposition.
At least our manager gets to the point – a point which rival fans don’t like but their you go.
As for Ronaldo he didn’t have to criticize him – he never hardly criticizes a player – if he does then it’s the whole team. Unlike your manager who can’t even do that.
So you guys play beautiful football do you? Well the last three years don’t agree with you but I guess now you’ll say the wrong team has been winning – and how did they just do that over brilliant Arsenal?
Plus to you and all the Arsenal fans – you guys are hypocrites – you lambast AW in your fans/manager meetings, you lambast him for not signing enough players, you fall for the media saying Arsenal are not good enough for even fourth. Some games into the New Season you win a couple by lots of goals and you’re flavour of the month and year again – the journalists that said you are hapless are back on “Arsenal football is out of this world football” mode again and you guys believe it.
Yes you are good and maybe are exceptional, but you have no sense of appreciation of your rival – the rival that happens to be champions. You treat us with disrespect and then come on here and shower your rubbish upon us. The only thing I agree with Arsenal supporters is that some of the filth that minority Utd supporters were coming up with was out of line. I would argue minority of supporters in every club are full of filth. As supporters we have to make a stand and make a point that not every one wants to get to that level of immaturity. The other point was on AW getting sent off at the end. As mentioned on another post, if that was SAF in the 95th min I hope that common sense would prevail.
What I do not agree with is your constant delusion that you deserved to win the match – you didn’t we scored two and you scored one.
May I point out Burnley scored 1 goal, we scored nothing and so we did not deserve to win no matter how many chances we had more than them. If you cannot outscore the opposition you just do not deserve to win- end of
Move on you and your manager and your team should carry on- like we should carry on. For AW to today cry foul of our tackling is out of order. The truth is MUFC have always out tackled AFC – well for most of the times anyway. This is just the way we play our game to you. But for AW to say that Arsenal are Angels compared to us then get real – you give as good as you get and have always done so. So please…
MG
what a rant
what a read
excellent
wenger is just pissed he lost the game ……….. it was never a penalty on arshavin but fletcher stopped the flow of the game time and time again with niggly fouls…….its up to the referee to decide whether he shud have been booked or not but no foul he committed deserved a yellow card for me……..utd got away with murder in the first half, they were absolute rubbish and wenger knew this and thats why he’s said what he’s said coz he’s very pissed off about going home with no points…….arsenal shud have got a point from the game………. also i felt giggs was very inneffective and it may be his last season…….surely berbatov wud have been more effective in that role?
Yawn…gooners…moan moan moan. Take a leaf out of your managers book and…oh, you have!
You guys are starting to sound like the bitters you face next.
Can’t believe the Gooners are still coming here and whining. They must have known deep down their run of form was illusory, else they wouldn’t be so bitter because of a loss. If they had any confidence in their team they’d dust themselves off and say “alright lads, let’s get three points next time out.”
The fact they’re still complaining shows how insecure they are with their squad and deep down they know this year will make six. How sad to be an Arse.
Jesus, you guys write so much a bout Arsenal on here, which is funny considering we’ve probably only been challenging you for one year out of the last 4 or 5…old habits die hard?
Eboue dived, fair enouh. He’s a likeable character, has improved as a footballer, but is also an idiot. Stupid thing is if he wasn’t convinced Evra was going to tag him he would have retained possession. Of course Wnger will protect him in public and then tell him off in private. Just as Fergie will privately suggest to Darren Fletcher that diving in feet and arms first on Arshavin in the box is not a stroke of genius. Despite his managers protection, Fletcher was honest enough to suggest he’d got away with one, for which he gains respect from me.
Fletcher is a decent player and a not a particularly dirty one, but is very good at little fouls that don’t look too bad, but are just as cynical at breaking up opposition attacks as the one Gallas was rightly booked for (albeit Gallas’ was in a more dangerous position). Gilberto used to be quite good at it, with a homer like Mike Dean in charge it gets ignored. Unlike Scholes ( a great player sadly fading), he can actually tackle, so his fouls are seldom eye-catching enough to get bookings.
Not sure I would have used Wenger’s phrasing, but his general point is valid, in that although sometimes it works against Utd, for the most part, 70,000 fans at OT are pretty good at influencing the refs. Not many pens for away teams at OT!
Of course also AW is trying to draw attention away from the fact that despite comprehensively outplaying you for the first time in bloody years at OT, we still lost due to 2 inexplicable errors of judgement.
Still torn on the Rooney pen….he went down early, but if he hadn’t he would have been tripped (though he didn’t have control of the ball). A real tough one, sort of both a dive and foul at the same time. One of those ones the home team will get and the away team won’t at most grounds.
Unlike most gooners, I don’t hate Utd. The real nasty days have gone, and apart from Evra (who is a right dirty bastard who gets away with murder), there’s no utd players I really dislike at present. Hated RVN (great finisher, even better cheat – a bit of a specialist of undetected off the ball incidents as well as diving – was far superior at it than the frankly amateurish eboue and eduardo!), and was torn between hatred and awe with Ronaldo, but even those that do well against us like Rooney, Fletcher, Vidic etc seem like decent enough blokes.
Oh and hated Mark Hughes too….at least now we can share that one…
Wenger’s Arsenal have (nearly) always played beautiful, flowing football.
Veiera’s last match – the Cup Final – was an exception.
However, they’ve (nearly) always cheated, as well, yet squealed like scalded pigs if their opponents do likewise.
They wouldn’t be in the history books as the ”modern-day invincibles” if Pires hadn’t dived against Portsmouth, for example.
As for fouling/violent play, has Wenger forgotten Evra almost being kicked off the park. The same with Nani when he juggled the ball, on the wing, when Arsenal were thrashed in the FA Cup.
And how can anyone ever forget Keown and his gang’s cowardly attack on Ruud van Nistelrooy?
It’s a game for men – - – not big girl’s blouses!!
PS fletcher on Arshavin was a pen. Even if he got the ball first (which isn’t totally clear), he managed to do so with both arms/hands. Slightly unlucky, but a pen.
On a general note….do any of you think Valencia was worth the money? Doesn’t look utd quality to me in any of your games so far….
I don’t think it was a case of terrible tactics, more so the personal. We played the same way we did in the semi final this year – matching the three in central midfield. The difference on saturday was our front three was Nani-Rooney-Valencia, as oppose to Rooney-Tevez-Ronaldo, so naturally it won’t work as well. Plus, our central midfield had a bit of a shocker as well. Even Fletcher I would say, even though he was great in retrieving possession.
It’s nothing personal with Arsenal. Whenever a Chelsea-United or Liverpool-United game comes and goes, we talk about it just as much.
Surely Arshavin’s denied penalty claim would only be evened out if Rooney was told to play on and try to score from open play after his. Perspective?
arsenal were the better team but united won
united werent shit arsenal were just sharper
thats football, ask bolton on saturday
but imagine the 2005 fa cup final which is in the history books for 2 reasons number 1 it was the first fa cup final to go to a peno shoot out
and number 2 it was the most one sided fa cup final since the final in 99
did we bitch and moan
Wow, the Gooners really have their hate on for this site! The bottom line is, even when United play poorly, we can still pull out a win. Arsenal on the other hand, doesn’t have the maturity or focus to put the screws to a team not playing up to par. Arsene was hilarious this weekend though!
@ Matthew Wade
We’re only on our own forum talking about Arsenal cos your manager has chosen to continue his verbal assault on us whilst ignoring other issues far more relevant to the game itself.
That said, enjoy your visit to our wonderful site!
so these jackasses are still here. cant believe them. guys i thunk whole heritage of arsenal members are like this.just crying and crying.
and guys now be ready becose our guuners mate will visit regularly to our site. they just love united.
u guys go to fa, uefa,fifa andheadquaters to complain about this diving while we guys enjoy winning trophy.
@Matthew Wade
Yes it was a penalty – but at the speed maybe it was 50/50 – I don’t know
If it was a penalty assuming – imagine Arsenal miss – because Arshavin scored the goal directly from that incident – so he wouldn’t have scored that second one (logically because their would not have been enough time to do so.
Would we still be having this conversation if it were 0-0 at the half? I think not
Valencia is not a gamble – he has already proved that in the way he takes on defenders and with his assists – he will be very exceptional once he beds into the team ethic.
Quite interesting that you only pulled match quotes that substantiate your claims. Had the referee been doing his job you would’ve been down to ten men after the foul on Arshavin, when Fletcher went in with both feet. I thought that the quote in the news from Fletcher–where he said he was “due some luck”– was pretty telling though and reflects exactly the attitude of Man U fans as well: an attitude of entitlement. Not to mention the chants about AW being a pedophile show the definite lack of class of many Man U fans.
The comments above about Wenger only thinking one style of football is valid are silly. That’s not what he says. He says that the rules should be applied fairly. As it stands the rules are applied so as to favor teams that play negatively. Look at the injury on Eduardo two seasons ago and the lack of punishment that resulted. Of coarse Taylor didn’t intend to break Eduardo’s leg, but those kinds of injuries are an inevitability of allowing that kind of play and they discourage more attractive styles of play.
Gotta hate tiny tears – you did bitch and moan! And still are! I admit that year all arsenal fans thought Wenger had lost the plot…so strange as he’s normally incapable of putting a defensive team out….i think it was his first foray into tactics.
Actually the cup final we lost the the scousers in 01 was more one-sided. Think they scored with their only shots, we missed 6 or 7 sitters and henchoz should have been sent off for deliberate handball on the line in the first few minutes…..
It happens and its a bitch when it does. THis weekend UTd got luck, it happens. Frustrating as the ref was a homer, but the weak-chinned mr dean always is. Funny how so many refs look utterly pathetic and devoid of masculinity. But then you have uriah rennie whos built like a brick outhouse, but is just useless.
Sadly It looks like the chavs for the league this year…really strong squad, most experienced, and dare i say it best first 11….will be interesting what happens to them in 3or 4 years when Lampard, Ballack, Terry, Carvalho, Drogba, Anelka are all past it…
Rooney didn’t deserve a penalty. The ball was always going out of touch before Almunia fouled him. Should have been a no call. Wasn’t a dive by Rooney, but it definitely didn’t deserve a PK.
Tell my why Rooney is always allowed to verbally abuse the officials with his Chavy potty mouth, but when I player like Sagna makes an innocuous gesture because of an obvious bad call he’s given a yellow?
One more point for you moaning Gooners to chew on: while you’ve been drooling these past five years over the ‘wonderful football’ your team plays, United have actually been picking up trophies. Lots of them, from Champions of the World downwards.
So who’s got it right? Wenger or Fergie?
to be rank i havent seen such a crying team in my life. they just cry whenever they lose.
see guys if u r frustrated go to tottenhams or aston villas site. u can match those guys.
MG…disingenious argument as it makes assumptions we can’t be sure about. I’m not saying the pen would have made us win, but a pen and yellow or red for fletcher puts us in better position…who knows. Lets face it, could anyone have predicted Diaby’s og? I suspect you could stick that cross in 50 times and he’d never do it again..who knows what minute incident may have led to hes brain temporarily exploding?!
As for Valencia, fair enough….hes stronger than I remember, but doesn’t seem the brightest. Its also interesting to see if Nani finds any conistant level of performance to go with his undoubted talent. Also, any idea whats gone wrong with Anderson? He was such agreat player for porto and did ok first up for you, but seems to be rapidly shuffling backwards when we get to see him….
Also, when’s hargreaves back. Gutted he scored that free-kick a couple of years ago, but have nothing but sympathy for his injury problems….
U guys will go to chelseas site and say united are favourites come here and say chelsea are favourite.
but u wont say urself as favourites. bcose u know u arent.u guys are total disgrace to ur own club.
To be fair over the last 3 years Utd have at times played breathtaking out of this world football. The trophies you’ve won have been largely the result of playing good football, but with a defensive set-up that works for you, unlike the gallas-toure partnership which was ill-conceived. No coincidence for all the brilliance of Rooney and Ronaldo, Vidic got more plaudits last year (and rightly so…great defender, and a perfect match for rio..they make each other better).
Its why i will always hold utd in higher regard than chelsea and Rafa’s version of liverpool. 95% of the time you guys play to win by actively beating the other team, not just by nullifying and nicking one.
Where is John Lennon when you need him!
Come on everyone, its a game of football, stuff happens..
Hey Arsenal fans (and AW) – cheer up things could be worse – you have a good team, don’t spoil that by not being able to handle unlucky defeats – it happens to everyone
MG – Genius.
Matthew Wade – I seem to remember the Renboys getting off to a flyer last season. We all know what happened. Lets see how they cope against a decent team. No disrespect but would hardly call Hull, Sunderland, Fulham and Burnley (at home) testing opposition. Lets see how Anelotti copes when the going gets tough. Don’t agree they have the best squad either. What if Drogba and Anbelka get injured? As soon as we get in our stride things may look very different. Sick of the media’s Chelski love in.
Ferguson said fletcher touched the ball so it was not a penalty…ya right! he touched the ball (with his hand) after hacking arshavin, but thats OK..its old trafford…there…now go defend that statement from your boss mancs! perhaps you will show some screen-shot where 1 pixel of fletchers ‘hand’ is on contact with the ball…go on look for it…
Matthew Wade – Hargo back with the squad 23 September! As for Anderson he is a concern.
@Matthew Wade: Just to add to what you are saying, United did try a more honest(if you want to call it that) approach last year against the big 4 and the results weren’t that flattering. It’s funny, but everytime we play great football against you guys, we end up losing! Remember the 05 final and last year’s 2-1 defeat at the Emirates. So it’s natural that Ferguson would opt for a more compact and robust approach. In a league like the English one, it’s necessary to be versatile like that.
@king eric
completely aGree with u about chelsea. they havent faced a tough opponent yet. there squad is more and less the same.
ash
what the fuck?
we ARE favourites and i admit it.
Oh My! I am shocked!
Wenger has yet again showen what a complete Twat he is!
To me the difference is massive, Deliberatly stopping the oposing team on the half way when they are looking dangerous or you are out numbered is part of the game!…
In every match both teams do this time and time again, For me it is part of the Tactics!…. REsult – The attacking Team get a freekick, Defending player gets a yellow or noted by the ref!
Now.. Player diving to Cheat the Other team out of something they wouldnt have fairly?………. Is Cheating! This kind of thing happens every once in a while!
I would like to say to Mr Wenger!
Why are you commenting on something that your players do also!?
Play the game back and count how many fouls your players make that are deliberate. I think i remember one main attack that united were on and giggs was Tripped by Edbue or Diabby with no attempt by the arsenal player to win the ball..> This is what you are talking about! Both teams do it!
Now lets compare the Dive!…. You name one united player who dived??…… Thats the differnce you french cock sucking whore!
i personally don’t have any problem with utd from saturday. it should’ve been a pen on arshavin, even if you imagine fletcher got the ball with his knee before he got the man, it still hit his hand. secondly, the problem regarding flecther was that of the 23 utd fouls, he did 6 and didn’t get booked. (not even considering the fouls he didn’t get pulled up on) normally, this would constitute consistent fouling, no? regarding rooney, yes he didn’t have control and was already on the way down prior to any actual contact but our keeper should never have been there-period. and there is no excuse for diaby either. i think that wenger isn’t annoyed at utd per se, he’s just trying to emphasise the witch hunt taking place towards his players. thought we were better team but you won it and i have to say it was more or less fair and square.
just one other thing regarding the chants- most of the guys on here seem to agree that they are a disgrace but also claim that a small minority only sing them- i actually live in belfast and have attended bars when every utd fan present has happily sang along to these and other pleasantries about eduardo breaking his leg………… so are they this minority you speak about?
opps… little irrational last comment! But he deserves it!! haha
trevor, rooney was already heading for the ground before alumunia touched him, so that’s a dive then…..but i digress. i don’t blame him as the keeper left himself totally open for it and shouldn’t have been out there. eboue was stupid and got rightly booked for it. you final comment fits in well with the nature of your support-was your throat sore from all the singing on saturday?
Wenger is a Genius! Man U’s 3 best players were Mike Dean, Almunia and Diaby – what a bullet!
I am glad that Arsene is upset, he should be, because Arsenal lost to an inferior team while having to play against the ref, who wouldnt be?
You will get you behinds kick at the emirates so keep talking all of your crap on here.
Talking about diving, how ridiculous can Man U fans be? you guys should never talk about diving and cheating given your best player for the past few years, without whom you wouldnt have won crap was and is the worlds current best diver! Greg Louganis has nothing on that guy.
Arsenal!
Paul N – It is your manager who is talking crap mate – when someone talks crap about our team what are we suppose to do but respond to that?
Can’t help but notice there are a lot of Arsenal fans on here. Are the Arsenal websites really that boring? Or are you all so plastic you don’t know the addresses of any Arsenal sites?
Bottom line, Wenger is a bitter prick who pulls the same comments out of his arse every time his ballet company leaves Old Trafford empty handed. Then all of these so called “gooners” (wasn’t that the name of their hooligan firm?) bombard the media with the party line.
United commited more fouls but received fewer bookings: bookings are based on the type of tackle rather than the number.
Fletcher commited fouls all afternoon: Just because a flimsy ice dancer loses her delicate balance because of a tackle doesn’t make it a foul.
The referee was a homer: Maybe if Arsenal could fill their stadium with real fans who didn’t need song sheets and free scarves they might be able to influence referees a little.
The better team lost: How many points do you get for being the better team?
United are not going to win the league: How the fuck would any of you know what a league winning team looks like?
lets stop being biased and give GOd thanks. Any team could have won. Manu has history of divers, arsenal chelsea liverpool. Every team has had. IT was a good game and anyteam could have won. Lets be mature supporters. Everyteam had divers, coutless you tube evidence is out there for both teams of players diving, but lets just get on wit the game and be mature supporters.
@Matthew Wade
If therefore my comments are based on what ifs, the reason why we are debating this is for what reason then? You say Fletch deserved a yellow maybe red card – no he didn’t – like he never did against you lot in the CL semi final.
What Fletch does is exactly what AW is getting hot headed about – you do not have a player like him – I bet you wish you had though – just like we wish we had him in the CL final.
I remember the Emirates in hysterical fits when he never made it for the final. Cesc knew it wasn’t a penalty – what if he could have just got up and got on with play – Arsenal had the game lost anyway and weren’t coming back from it – did he show sportsmanship to Fletch by arguing for his case to the ref to not be sent off? Nope
Why then do you or Arsenal supporters assume that we should be sad that you lot never got a penalty? We couldn’t care less – it’s not even justice served as far as Fletch is concerned.
As I mentioned you give as good as you get. When you assume you are being victimised – that our football is somehow anti and inferior to yours then you guys are out of order. By assuming that your level of football play and management is superior to ours is again out of order. Once more, yes you are a very good football side but get over it already. So are we, we have enough bad calls too and sometimes we too do not perform to the level that we know we should be playing at. Yes we get hot headed too when the result doesn’t go our way. Yes we get upset when refs change the course of our games. But we carry on. Manchester United do not stop for the sake of wrong decisions or for that matter our own shortcomings. We strive to carry on and better ourselves and so should you. Don’t you?
Your comment about you assuming that Chelsea will win shows you up big time. Ye of little faith that cannot get behind their team beyond any doubt. I do not doubt my team, nor my manager, nor when we bloody lost to Burnley nor when we probably will loose or drop points in draws again.
We’ll probably have decisions go against us and we’ll be on the wrong end of the stick – but no matter what we will do is to stand together and never ever doubt that we are inferior to anyone no matter what the circumstances. If you cannot live like that even when things don’t go your way then I cannot speak for that mentality. That also doesn’t mean that I am in any way superior to you or to any fan. This is the way that I support my football team that happens to be Manchester United.
For the record my opinion on the diving is that Eduardo’s dive last week was a disgrace and for him to get a 2 match ban is fair enough, however that rule needs to be applied across the board when anyone dives not just when it is highlighted on tv
Eboue’s dive was a disgrace and in the Arsenal pub where I watched the game, most others felt embaressed by it.
Wengers comments seem ludicrous but we know what a bad loser he is, although it’s not like Fergie has not come out with some strange comments on the back of a defeat. Remember his comments about our ground and it’s lack of safety a couple of years ago?
As for the game, neither side played as well as they can although I think we probably played slightly better than you. With Fabregas,Nasri and Walcott all out it wasn’t too bad. Diaby’s own goal was one of the worst I’ve ever seen and there were some calls saying Rooney dived for the pen. Personally I think he looked for it (as all strikers do) and that Almunia allowed himself to get played.
Be interesting to see how the season goes but despite having lost I think most Gooners will be encouraged by our overall performance.
I can’t believe how many Gooners have felt compelled to contribute to this site. It’s beginning to get really rather boring but some make good points and clearly know their football. I have to agree with objections to United fans still dragging out that tiresome old paedophile song about Wenger. However, no-one believes its words are meant to be taken literally and Wenger is still very much alive, whereas Munich songs celebrate the deaths of 23 people, not only 8 United players but others not so well known and not directly involved in football. There really is no comparison between the Wenger song and Munich chants, and no amount of grandstanding on ‘moral high ground’ will make the paedo song anything like as offensive as chortling over innocent people being killed in an horrific air-crash.There are still many friends and relations who are still alive, not to mention crash survivors such as Bobby Charlton, some of whom attend matches where they can’t help hearing such songs.
Yes, Fletch was awesome, and he has been very good in many games over the last season or so. And I especially like the fact that he often pops up in goal scoring positions. He can be top class, but he is not yet – if he can put in performances like that week in week out then good for us. I’ve always wanted him to prove his detractors wrong, and I’m happy he’s doing that.
Having said that, when talking of players worthy and capable of getting teams like united to win things, there are two kinds I would say: players who make the rest of the team look good, and players who look good when surrounded by quality players. I think this squad in particular is one with too few of the former and too many of the latter. We have too many players who if they end up in lower quality teams will look like absolute shit or at best average against decent opposition- that might be because of ageing or just pure capability. I’m not going to name name’s because each of us will have a different assessment of how good our players are – but I sincerely feel the balance between the kind of players I have identified has shifted dramatically with the departure of Ronaldo. We have players who have the potential to be world class in the youth ranks, but thats not going to help this season, is it?
Also, where SAFs tactics are concerned in games such as that against Arsenal, it could be one of two things: either, he’s just become too bleeding conservative in his approach and has made a conscious assessment that in big games against the rest of the ‘top four’ he absolutely does not want to risk dropping points, even if that means the prospects of us picking up 3 points drops dramatically – in short, he’s being risk averse; or he’s actually not very confident of the ability of the team he puts out to really dictate play against quality opposition. The former would bug me, but its okay; the latter would seriously worry me.
This is beyond bitter, it’s hypocrisy. When Wenger had Viera and he was crashing into tackles, being hard but, winning the ball fair and square – was Wenger admonishing him for breaking the flow of football?
From what we can gather is Wenger was afraid of Fletcher from the get go. He knows he steps up when we play them and did everything he could to get him carded in the first half. At one point commentators said reports on the sidelines were that Wenger was giving an earful to the 4th official after just a couple of fair tackles from Fletcher to win the ball. They were dumbfounded as to what game Wenger was watching.
What Wenger is trying to do is obvious – he recognizes what a force Fletcher is turning out to be for United and he’s laying the seed for him to be less effectual by trying to get the refs to start calling fouls that aren’t fouls on him.
Hopefully refs see it for what it is an attempt to bias against one of the fairest players around just because his squad’s fragile mental strength couldn’t hold on.
King Eric…thanks for the measured and informative response. Agree the chavs have had it easy, but don’t forget they have done pretty well despite injury problems in the last 2 years, and Kalou is actually a decent striker. I may be alone in this but i also think Man City will regret letting sturridge go – with the right attitude he could be a big player. Of course if Anelka and Drogba get injured they’ll have problems, but the same could be said of RVP and Arhavin or Rooney and Berbatov (or far worse if Torres and Gerrard – ouch!).
I’m not saying are bang on, just that they seem best placed so far due to the wealth of experience in their sqaud. Dull but bloody effective.
MG- either you misunderstood what i meant (its the internet so perfectly possible) or you have anger management issues! Remember I am not responsible for all the gooners coming on here making anti-manc posts, and I’m trying to be reasonable while reflecting the other perspective.
I’m not saying Arsenal have been victimised, I’m just saying that you guys get the marginal decisions at your place…hardly shocking news! Pretty much every opposing teams fans, players and management in Europe think that! And I think Mike Dean’s a poor ref, not a manc (not like Mike Riley – and that infamous interview with him). And me thinking the chavs are best placed doesn’t show me up as anything at all. They’ve started well, have an incredibly settled and experienced and fairly deep squad, seem to have sorted out their internal ego issues, and the only top 4 team to not have their squad weakened. Currently they are favourites with the bookies, and rightly so. If their form drops off, we will both be well placed. Liverpool? No chance….
Re Cesc vs Fletch….to be honest if you’ve been tackled from that angle at that speed its almost impossible to know if the opposition player gets a slight toe on the ball. I take the point, but its a bad example. When you get taken out, you will appeal for a foul unless he opponent clearly takes the ball, particularly when you are about to score!
I felt sorry for him last year, as it didn’t do us any favours and just hurt you (though despite suppporting you lot against bayern and the chavs, I wanted barca to win, primarily for Thierry Henry and also I think Guardiola is classy).
And to whoever it was, I’m hanging around on here cos despite the fact that there are some absolute eejits, there are also some fairly respectful intelligent posters who can offer insight about things I know little about. Sometimes its interesting to hear from the other side.
Also, this year is interesting as its hard to call…the chavs are aging and have a new manager, you lot won’t be as strong without £100m worth of attacking talent, Liverpool look a little brainless without alonso and are far too relient on their main men, and Arsenal are improving but unproven. Add to that Spuds doing pretty well, Villa having strenthened and City having enough money to buy the moon,its hard to call. Then in Europe an improved inter, Madrid and a still massively talented Barca, its interesting there too. Makes hearing the viewpoints of other fans all the more interesting.
Now we are all biased, sure, but I would be interested hand on heart what you think of Arsenal’s chances this year, and opinions about our formation change. I certainly feel that Utd shouldn’t play the formation they did on saturday as you are far better set up for 442, though at present its hard to know who your best midfield 4 are. Also surely berbatov has to start producing more. £30m? Ok not as inappropriate a buy as Veron, but he just doesn’t seem a utd player to me…..
Mr Wade – I think Arsenal have a good chance this year, similar to ourselves (one match does not mean everything)..
I don’t think the formation was the problem on saturday, it’s just a few players in key positions did not perform, especially in the first half.
Best Mid at the mo? Nani – Fletch – Scholes – Valencia
Berba? Anyone who has seen him play this season so far cannot say he’s not doing the business – I love watching Berba in the team, he’s one of my favourite players right now…
@macheda is god
when did i say we are not favouirites.we were are and will always be favourites. i was talking abt chelsea. like king eric said if drogba or lampard gets injured they are over. and add to that african players wont be available in jan feb.
ash…good call about ANC I’d completely forgotten about that now toure and ade have gone to your rich nieghbours…
@paul n
if i had the control over primier league i would have made the rematch this week at ur fucking emirates. atleast then we would have shut ur mouth.
the bottomline is we won it doesnt matter how we won.
as for as fletchers tackle is concerned those tackles were similar wat gattuso did to us in san siro.
at that time we never cried neither did fergie.
As an Arsenal fan I am obviously unhappy to have lost a game we should have won. Also we as fans are going to be quite one eyed in our view. So I am going to state the facts as I see them.
1) Eboue dived to get Evra sent off and deserved is booking, he cannot be defended.
My last point is the disgusting chanting that our manager was subjected to again. I made comparisions to the vile abuse your club suffers with respect to the great young men that lost their lives in 1958, when certain clubs chant bile relating to it. I did this on another thread on Saturday night, but your moderator choose not to allow the post. Both types of chants are disgusting and should stop.
2) Rooney dived for his penalty. He was falling before there was any contact with Almunia. Even so it happened so quickly you cannot blame the ref for awarding a pen(I would have been annoyed if it had not been awarded to us if the situation was reversed). However ManU fans should ask themselves what would the press be saying about Rooney today if Almunia had been as clever as Boruc and got out of the way at the last second, because Rooney was still going down the replays prove that.
3) I thought Fletcher had a good game, he does what he is on the pitch to do break up play with good tackling, and yes if need be the odd foul when needed. We haven’t had that sort of player since Gilberto left and I think we miss it. Hopefully Song can turn into that player for us.
I do think on Saturday though Fletchers accumulation of fouls was enough to justify a yellow card. Also the foul on Arshavin was a definate pen.
4) Van Persie did not dive in the first half, but that said it was never a penalty. I think the events of the past week have given fans the impression that evry challenge in the box is either a pen or a dive. There is a middle ground, as was the case here.
5) It is early in the season but in comparison to our meetings last season when the only game out of the four we were the better side in was the last league meeting at OT (I am honest enough to admit we were lucky to win in the league at the Grove), we look like we have got a lot stronger after the summer and you have got weaker. Ronaldo is a massive miss for you and Valencia is no where near an adequate replacement.
6) You were lucky to win the game. However I agree with the comments on here that you did deserve it. At the end of the day you scored more goal and goals win games. We got away with it in the 2004 cup final so we can’t complain.
I do take heart that Fergie with his tatics is basically saying we can not try to “out football” Arsenal with the players we have available, and it is not as if you were badly affected by injuries only VDS and Ferdinand. We had Cesc,Walcott, Nasri & Rosicky all out.
7) On the subject of divers, lets not get pompus here. We both have had and still have them. Us Pires, Reyes, Eboue & Eduardo. You Ronaldo, RVN, Giggs & Rooney. All clubs have their far share.
Please don’t justify it by saying it a tiny minority. It isn’t. Thousands of people in a crowd of 75000 is not a tiny minority.
Re Matthew Wade
I’m not angry I have no reason to be not for a game of football – all be it that we won.
I can’t understand the deep misgiving of AW Arsenal and some fans having having a go at MUFC for winning a match. Their were no decisions in the match that went against Arsenal that could have changed the match in favour for Arsenal. We have discussed at length the fletch penalty incident and I think we have an understanding. At the end I would look to Almunia for charging out for the penalty. That was his inclination at the moment which changed the match for United and Arsenal. Secondly I would look to Diaby for his poor positioning which led to the own goal.
That their are defensive issues which concern Arsenal not Manchester United is a problem which has been overlooked by a lot of people in order to portray a common miss placed knowledge that Arsenal play better football than Manchester United. The thing that concerns us is that we had two brilliant chances at the end and should have finished you off – at that point me and you would not be discussing this if we had scored. It seems to me that Arsenal and their fans and the media are a little bit pissed off with the fact that MUFC didn’t beat Arsenal through their own merit – but that Arsenal gifted United 2 chances on the day and that has caused you guys a problem. Likewise I argue Ben should have saved Arshavin’s shot that led to the goal. End of
As for Ronaldo I couldn’t care and a lot of United fans feel the same way. Yes he was brilliant, yes he scored goals but commentators and rival fans also thought when we sold RVN that no one could step up and take over the mantle of goal scorer at United. Ronaldo became what he became through the manager that you and others mainly despise. And the team had to sacrifice for him which he never appreciated because as of now he has gone to fulfill his dream. So we move on. Their is no denying what he was at United. But we also have Rooney who was the main sacrifice for Ronaldo’s brilliance. As long as he stays injury free we will see then if we are right in having nothing to fear over Ronaldo’s going. We have a manager that has the foresight to make change and so do you. Therefore you wouldn’t argue with me that their decisions are wrong do you?
As for Berba – I have nothing to say. I think that he has shown this year that he has stepped up. I’ll hold out that by the end of the year I’ll have been proved right that he was destined for being at United. Again everyone is open to opinion.
As for Chelsea – nothing to fear. If they haven’t lost anyone then they haven’t exactly set the world alight with signings. Chelsea do not fear United. On that note – their second goal in the community shield should never have been. Am I bitter? No because we lost the game through a lottery of penalty shootouts – that I can take – they should remember we have the trophy that counts. A loss is a loss but the way we were treated in the game by the ref was a disgrace. But we move on like you should move on.
I do not ridicule you nor am I angry. We are all biased as fans of our teams on many different levels. A last point. As for you supporting Henry that’s fine. I supported Arsenal as an englishmen when you played Barca in the CL final some years ago. After the defeat you may remember Henry was very hot and bothered that he would stay at Arsenal forever and never ever play for htat team Barcelona. What happened? Exactly – loyalty means nothing but as an Arsenal supporter Arsenal have survived and regrouped without him. So will Manchester United without Ronaldo. And this circle will carry on. We are loyal as supporters to our clubs – not to the players. We want our players to be – but that is not always the case. The issue that AW has let drag is insignificant because he should be addressing the shortcomings of his team on the day rather than deflect the attention away. I think I’m done that is if you are done.
@Rossa fc
If Rooney dived what did Eduardo do then? That was worser than a dive right so was that a con?
I ask the question in peace.
On the chanting I agree with you as mentioned before. It was disgusting it has no part – especially as I speak for myself – I do not tolerate Munich chanting so therefore I would never go to a level where I could offend my rival.
The united supporters who were chanting were out of order. End of
At the end SAF and AW have now a mutual respect for one another so therefore it was wrong. Even when managers don’t have respect for one another it doesn’t mean that you have to disrespect as fans.
What was far funnier was making comical chanting from Rafa’s facts – that is acceptable and part of the fabric of football. But anything else is out of order.
you lot are thick morons,the average utd moron,fat thick ginger.asian female.
The ref was ok, given the high profile match and avoiding unacceptable incidents on the pitch.
Rossa AFC – Some good points but please don’t make the mistake of jumping on to the media band wagon and stating we are fucked without Ronaldo. Of course he is a miss but we will adapt. Do you honestly think we will play that bad all season? Just because Ronnie has gone doesn’t mean we all of a sudden can’t pass and counter at pace. Did you see the speed of the 2 breaks in stoppage time where if not for a bobble and Nani panicking we could have won 4-1? With Rooney, Berba, Owen and the two kids up top it is only a matter of time before you see the “real United”. As for injuries have you forget about the force that is Owen Hargreaves? Back in the fold 23 September.
now who in the blue hell is this micheld.man r u saying abt united, bcose if u r then take back ur words.
MG – Sorry mate I wanted to reply to one of the gooners in haste. I have now read your last post and realised you have covered pretty much what I have just said!
MICHELDUB – Fuck off you illiterate racist cunt. Seen you on here a few times now and you have NOTHING to offer. Fuck off to the 606 forums you clueless bastard.
you totally deserve this defeat so just shut it you babies! from players to fans it dont fuckin differs! no matter how much you rant, e result still reads 2-1 to e champions! do us a favour will ya goons…go touch yourself instead of e keyboard cos its more satisfyin that way for you wankers!!! i am beginnin to love e results so much cos it hurts you goons so bad!!
We shouldn’t take everything managers say literally. They say some things in public and then discuss issues eye-to-eye in a very different words. There are some managers like Mourinho. 70% of everything they say has a provocative meaning and is directed to disturb your opposition.
I really like what Shimo about the fear Wenger had for Fletcher and he has every right to defend his team. But the game is over, Arsenal were better on the day but stop, in what way ? Yes, overall impression and that’s all. ManU were poor but we won and as Scott said the circumstances make wins so special sometimes.
Reply to King Eric, I take your point about Hargreaves. He is a good utility player but I think a starting place in the 1st team in his favoured holding role has gone now with the form of Fletcher.
However I cannot agree with you on Owen, I think he has lost the yard of pace that was his greatest asset. He was never a finisher in the class of Fowler, Shrearer, RVN or Henry. In many ways I hope I am wrong because if he could forge a good club partnership with Rooney it would benefit England.
On the Ronaldo issue, I am not jumping on the media bandwagon. I try to avoid that. I do not think you are f*cked as you put it, but I do think you are considerably weaker creatively due to his leaving.
To MG. I am sorry if I didn’t mke myself clear. I was assuming in the comment that Eduardo also dived. I he did.
Finally to MICHELDUB, please do not come onto other clubs forums under the banner of Arsenal FC and spout such racist crap. You are a prick of the highest order. Have you looked at the nationalities of the players you supposedly support. I reckon you are probably a SPUD in disguse trying to give us a bad name.
MG….my tongue was firmly in cheek when I said you were angry!
I never suggested the ref cost us the game. It was almunia’s poor decision and diaby’s oddly shaped head. He just prevented it from being an entirely even contest – which is i suppose partly what home advantage is about. And foster could have saved our goal. Wonderful save against rvp with his left leg though..really high quality. Bottom line is you were a bit lucky, we were a bit unlucky and Mike Dean’s just a rubbish ref.
Yeah berba and Nani should have scored at the end. Wouldn’t have affected the discussion, cos no team leaves only at the back unless they are chasing the game. Only a relavent point if the argument is about the correctly disallowed equaliser by RVP.
Agree Rooney will pick up much of the Ronaldo slack. A brilliant player and good enough for any team in the world. But you don’t sell the best player in the world without being slightly weaker. Not saying its a big drama, but bugger me ronaldo was unstoppable when on form. Of course you’ll regroup. Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world! I just think it will take a little while.
Interesting to hear your (and others ) support for berbatov. Its shy I asked as its very hard to get a clear sense how he’s playing for you without watching all the games, as those I have seen he seems to flit in and out. A little like our brilliant tubby russian i guess.
Agree you got cheated in the Charity Shield. But then its the charity shield (or whatever they call it now) so who gives a rats arse!
As for Henry going to Barcelona, its hard to not still affection for your record goalscorer, probably best ever player, former captain who only ever says positive things and has achieved exactly what he said he left to do. He even bizzarely semi-dedicated the CL win to Arsenal fans (which was sentimental – with emphasis on the mental). If its any consolation I remember jumping out of my chair when mark hughes got the winner agains barca in the CWC however many years ago it was. And I was buzzed when you beat Bayern too. In terms of sheer drama on a par with Micky T at Anfield.
RvP was booked for dissent. Alumni for the mandatory yellow for takedown and Eboue for funny dive. And who says you would score the penalty if given. aaaaaaaaaAt least got 1 for not.
You don win unless you change team tactics from game to game and your team is able to do that. Keep playing the same way and wank off cause wenger is years behind SAF.
@ Matthew Wade
Well I believe we Sir are in peace – good luck for your season
It’s amazing what common sense dialogue does
MG
MG – May we both finish ahead of the Chavs, the scousers (love the Ji sung Park song…) and Citeh…
@King Eric 18.09
We are cool : )
gospel.
@ Matthew Wade
Of course we first but then you’ll say you first : )
In any case yes in front of all those true blues or whatever they hark on about – scousers – it is officially their year – City the richest team in the world without the trophies to back all the talk : )
Ash, yes right! you know Arsenal were by far the better team and without many of our more mature players! you dont want none of the Arsenal at home and you know it.
No Man U fan with any sense at all would think that Man U is a better team that Arsenal.
Dont forget that your only real goal from open play was a beautiful and powerful header from Diaby.
3 shots on goal with Diaby scoring, thats makes it 2 shots on goal.
Hate and talk crap all you want, the truth is the truth.
I noticed no one took me up on the fact that you talk about diving but have benifited from one of the greatest divers ever, who it is is so obvious even to you that I dont even have to right his name.
ARSENAL, we are gonna murder you at home and that without the help of the ref’s.
hee hee!!
ARSENAL!!!
“write” his name that is! ha ha!
Okay United Wins 2-1 and wrong side lose again but believe me you guys need to be worried cause from what i see is EPL League is never goner come to United and it look like end of an era as usual United superiority has been reduced to grinding results and luck. I mean what else can you call being completely dominated by Gunners but you win in end due to blunders from Arsenal. Sure luck has played it final roll for United as far as i am concerned and it now few hours for transfer window to close and you need to buy a class player to carry these dead wood of a team.Cheers
@ Paul N
“Ash, yes right! you know Arsenal were by far the better team and without many of our more mature players! you dont want none of the Arsenal at home and you know it.”
- United had one first choice defender on the field and you could only score one goal.
“No Man U fan with any sense at all would think that Man U is a better team that Arsenal.”
- No, you’re absolutely right, the best team always finishes fourth and trophyless
“Dont forget that your only real goal from open play was a beautiful and powerful header from Diaby.”
- So? It still counts doesn’t it? Your only goal came from Arshavin. What is your actual point here?
“3 shots on goal with Diaby scoring, thats makes it 2 shots on goal.”
- And you still lost, doesn’t say much for Arsenal does it?
“Hate and talk crap all you want, the truth is the truth.”
- My thougts exactly
“I noticed no one took me up on the fact that you talk about diving but have benifited from one of the greatest divers ever, who it is is so obvious even to you that I dont even have to right his name.”
- Sorry, have to disagree with you there. I can’t think of one occassion when we benefitted from Robert Pires.
“ARSENAL, we are gonna murder you at home and that without the help of the ref’s.
hee hee!!
ARSENAL!!!.”
- How could I possibly disagree with such a well constructed arguement? Tell me, is your MENSA membership free or is there an annual fee?
When did mummy starting letting you use the computer unsupervised?
theres also the point where i think, we defended better than arsenal. vidic was a berlin wall as usual, evra got in a great block, fletcher took the chance against arshavin and got away with it (justice rewarded for the UCL? doesnt make a diff now does it) fosters brilliant save. i think we were the more positive side. we started a bit slow to be honest but i think we completely shut out arsenal in the second half. i didnt see arshavin at all. and hes supposed to be their main asset. if thats not great defending, i dont know what is..
@dannygunner
I am careful what i sing, i wont join in if the song is over the top!
I would happily chant that Wenger it s Wanker!
I would happily chant you lot have won fuck all !
You get minority supporters in every club who cross that line!.. You lot do it too.
Maybe Wengers Blindness is passed down because he fails to look at his own players prior to comment!
You say rooney was already going down, The contact was there He went down! Its a pen. Every Day of the week! Live with it!
I am 100% sure you lot will get a simular penalty which you will totaly forget about
@Rossa AFC
Yes it was a minority, WE have a massive crowd of 75k so you get a bigger minority in that crowd!
With regards to tactics, whats Wengers Problem..> Football is all about tactics. Sorry to say that Arsenal only have one style of play! I am pleased that Fergie has realised that if you play one style of play people sus you out!
Fergie has 3 formation & Tactics which he alternates to great effect! We have done well against Arsenal over the last couple of years so he must have the tactics right for you lot!
I do think Wenger is just sour grapes as he is frustrated at not being able to beat us!
To be honest, i think we were bloody luck on Saturday but some games you ahve the luck and some you dont!!
Anyway enjoy the rest of your season & Celebrate if you get 4th Spot or higher!
Scott, I can’t help but notice this sentence: ” In a week where one of his players has (ridiculously) been charged by UEFA for diving…”
Don’t you mean, ” In a week where one of his players has been charged by UEFA for (ridiculously) diving…”?
I haven’t read all the 104 comments but if you’re an Arsenal fan (unlucky!) get over it. There will be times in the season were your team will play off-par but still manage to win the game. Will you moan then?
Get over it. You lost to the Champions.
I mean ‘where’ in the post above.
Scott, add the plugin that allows you to edit your post
Who even cares what Wenger is saying? They’re no threat to us anymore. Sure they can put the odd quality performance in, they can even beat the top 3 sometimes, but they lack anything like the consistency or mental strength to challenge for the top honors. This fact is well known by Wenger, and Arsenal fans, and don’t they just hate it? So they mouth off garbage about anti-football, and defend cheating, and lose the plot whenever things don’t go their way.A manager builds a team in his own image, hence United always have a few battlers in their side, i.e. Bruce, Ince,Keane, Cantona, Hughes, Butt, Neville, Stam, Heinz, Tevez, Rooney, Fletcher, Vidic. And it’s why Arsenal have a major arrogance about them, because thats the way their gaffer is. So they resort to throwing food at other managers if they lose, or an entire team leaping around like drunken, wanking monkeys smacking someone on the head if he misses a penalty. Fabregas punching Sheringham (after a defeat), Fabregas again slagging off Mark Hughes (after a defeat) Vieira spitting at Ruddock after being sent off (compare that to Fletcher’s reaction after un-justly being sent off last season), Henry having to held back by the police as he tried to attack the ref (after a defeat). They simply never, ever accept that teams are capable of beating them, as they are the great Arsenal
The only reason Wenger is complaining about Fletcher, is because he’s the next Roy Keane and Wenger knows it, he fears it..
All I have to say is.. FOOTBALL GENIUS
Great article and very fair. I thought Fletcher took ball and then Arshavin and was a good decision. I also thought that as superior as Arsenal where going forward their defending was school boy stuff capped byt eh best own goal in some time.
why don’t u goonsrs fuck off n cry somewhere else.
Who gives a shit wat u think?? Wat? Was beating utd atOT gonna make up for doing fuck all the last five odd years?
Southern fucking fairies