As was rumoured earlier this week, it looks as though the Glazers are prepared to float on the Singapore stock exchange.
United have lodged a listing application and the share sell off could be complete by the end of the year.
The money raised by selling off this chunk of the club could then be used to reduce the club’s debt.
Read more about what this means on the Andersred blog and at United Rant.
Alexander Büttner Anders Lindegaard Anderson Antonio Valencia Ashley Young Ben Foster Betting Blog Busby Babes Carlos Tevez Chants Chris Smalling Competition Contributing Writer Cristiano Ronaldo Current Players Danny Welbeck Darren Fletcher Darron Gibson Da Silva Twins David Beckham David De Gea David Moyes Dimitar Berbatov Domestic Cups Edwin Van der Sar Eric Cantona Europe FA Fans Federico Macheda FIFA Football News Forum Gabriel Obertan Gary Neville Injuries International Interviews Javier Hernandez Ji-Sung Park John O'Shea Jonny Evans Just For Fun Kits Legends Live blog Louis Saha Manchester United News Match Day Match Reactions Michael Carrick Michael Owen Nani Nemanja Vidic Nick Powell Ole Gunnar Solskjaer Owen Hargreaves Past Players Patrice Evra Paul Scholes Phil Jones Poll Pre-Season Rants Reclaim Our Club Rio Ferdinand Rivals Robin van Persie RoM's Best Articles RoM At The Audi Cup Roy Keane Ryan Giggs Shinji Kagawa Shop Sir Alex Ferguson Site News Sponsored Post Staff Stats Tomasz Kuszczak Tom Cleverley Transfers/Rumours UEFA United > England Video Wayne Rooney Wes Brown Youth Zoran Tosic
© 2006-2013 Republik Of Mancunia: A Manchester United Blog by Scott the Red | Privacy Policy
Man Utd News 24/7
Well based on what I read about the effects this will have, I have to say it’s damn good news and Kudos must go to the Glaziers
If it leads to more of the debt being paid off, that’s good news.
First thing the glazers did right
What will the ABU’s have to talk about if our debt is wiped out?
Singapore is red, that’s right.
I’ve lived in Singapore all my life and I’m not sure this public float is a good thing. One thing is for sure though, the Glazers definitely know where the money and fans are in this part of the world.
Something is not quite correct – I thought the PIKS had gone?
@MG, The PIKs may have gone, gone the PRICKs remain
(
@MG, The PIKs were paid off last year, but nobody as of yet knows where the Glazers got the funds to pay them off. It is speculated that they must’ve taken some form of loan to get rid of them. So, the money from this IPO will be initially used to pay off said loans.
This is only good if most of the debt is paid off, and our interest payments are reduced
Whatever happens, we need funds to invest in the team/squad to keep competing
i’m with mg, i kept reading earlier in the year that the glazers found £252 mill down the back of the setee and paid off the pik’s
If the money goes to paying off a large chunk of our debts, then this is good news..
In Other News.. I FINALLY GOT A SEASON TICKET, after 2 years of waiting…
i can’t wait..!!!
As opposed to the 50 million we’ve spent this season?
Not the Glazers biggest fan, but they give Fergie the money to spend this window.
Wide a wake wakey should be able to expand more on this.
It’s all double dutch to me.
How can we be so sure if these shares will even sell?
Can somebody explain to me why people seem to think fan-based ownership is good for the club? The mere idea is giving me jitters. I mean, do you honestly think a large fanbase with controlling stake in the club is a good idea. I think it is absolute bollocks.
Business control of a football club as with any other business entity should remain with a single person (more commonly known as CEO) and an over-seeing group of people (more commonly known as Board of Directors). This is a tried and tested system, and it is the best way a modern business can effectively function. Since modern day football clubs are effectively run as a business, I think that is the best way here as well.
@The situation, You’re kidding right? This is Manchester United we’re talking about, the biggest sporting brand in the world. Institutional/Corporate investors will lap up the shares on no end. With the club being in its current state of expanding business, the share price has only one way and that is up. Given time, said investors have a chance to see a shitload of profit on our shares alone. So, hell yeah, it will fucking sell.
They sell like hot cakes. People out there, are crazy mad for United.
Willie – Thing is you do not even have to be there to buy the shares… All it takes is a decent broker to buy them for you, I believe online purchasing is also possible….. I agree though with Balaji, these shares once on the market will be snapped up in minutes….
On a side note, I hope this will mean that we can finally buy players
Anyone got a lend of £500,000,000 by any chance???
Yay, we will finally pay Sneijder’s reasonable demands.
Like the WS saga i’m tired of Glazier news,if the sell shares and pay off the debt its a good thing,doesn’t matter what they do always be wrong in alot of fans eyes.
Lets face it seeing utd as a non profit community owned is nice in dreamland but it’s never going to happen as Andersed mentioned that boat sailed many years ago.
Maybe these fans are angry at themsevles and doesn’t matter who owns the club it’ll never make them happy,it’s the same as having a chance to buy gold at $300 but decided against it,or the house that was to much but has now doubled in price,always going to blame something or someone instead of facing facts you royally fucked up.
I think with regards to what United have spent, we can’t expect to compete with City and Chelsea, and we’re spending about as much as most other clubs. Chelsea and City have oil money, and you don’t have to know much about the world of economics to know that’s basically infinite money. I don’t know how to break it to you all guys, but Manchester United are not an oil drilling concern.
So basically we’re on an entirely different fiscal bracket. We’re a real football club that has to make money to spend money. I don’t care too much for the Glazers, I should probably hate them, but there are many worse owners than them out there, so I’m happy for the small mercies. However if the Glazers fix the debt issue, which is perfectly possible given that the club makes money, then they won’t look nearly so bad to me. I mean when all is said and done, you won’t ever find a saint with the money to buy United. They seem to understand that we need to keep winning to keep making money, and even if they only understand that simple equation they should be all right.
@Doghouse, Spot fucking on. That is basically what me, Stateside and a shitload of others have been trying to point out to everyone else. Somehow people seem to think that some Sheikh with oil money is better than the Glazers. That is pure tunnel vision of hate for the Glazers IMO.
In fact, even if we had Oil money, I don’t think Sir Alex would spend it. Our club has been built on a foundation of bringing youth on, buying experienced players for the best available price and strengthening only when needed. It has resulted in 19 league trophies (4 of which were won after the Glazers took over), 3 European trophies (1 of which after Glazer) and a shitload of other trophies. I would say our platform is working pretty well given the kind of youth players we are seeing coming through.
If the Glazers clear the debt, and stay away from football, I couldn’t care less about anything else as long as we keep winning on the pitch. If our football suffers, then I might take notice, but with a certain Sir Alexander Chapman Ferguson heading that side of things, I am not worried in the least.
Hi I’m from Singapore! Love man utd, but I doubt I’ll have the money to buy their stocks haha!
@Willierednut
Livin in spore! Most welcoming news! Finally we can contribute to Man United’s cause. Rest assured its gonna b a sell out in e shortest of time n the champion will grow from strength to strength
That’s the good thing about the glaziers strictly business not ego driven and although they could have acted like autocrats they haven’t been invisible really,fans can hate them as much as they want bottomline left Sir Alex alone utd have had alot of success since the takeover and the club’s value has almost tripled,as Doghouse pointed out alot of worse options
off topic anyone see the Real vs Barca those teams fucking hate each other,good entertainment value
@ wayne lol all the hooligans have moved from England to Spain, if you get what I mean ;-P
who saw the news on the fact that we gained more from the 2010/2011 than barcelona… that was awesome consolation….lol
Redhot Concepts
Good to hear mate.
@Cedars
Thanks mate. You know I appreciate your support.
I know we have bought average players like Smalling, Hernandez, Young, Jones, De Gea, Lindegaard but I hope this shares thing will make us able to buy established superstars so I can finally purchase a shirt worth having a name on.
Willie – No need to mention it mate, but thanks anyway
Jamaican Red Devil says:
Kudos must go to the Glaziers
_________________________________________________________________________
I wouldn’t go that far. As AndersRed points out, anything they do is for their gain and their gain only. If it just so happens that the club benefits from it, then that’s by chance rather than by design.
Gonna get myself a couple of lots.. Because that’s all I can afford.. Just sentimentally attached to anything about this club…
@Balaji
As far as I know, Glazers will have over 70% of the club’s share and they will still be the “owners” and make all the business-related decisions at Man United (Football-related decisions are always left to Lord Alex after all
).
The fans will own a % of share, but if someone owns more than 50% then he is the sole owner as far as I am aware. Please correct me if I am wrong.
The interesting thing that Stateside mentioned about this model is the panic among the shareholders when certain events (retirement of SAF) take place at United. Now the Glazers will have to try and keep the shareholders pleased so that the share value of United doesn’t drop.
If Fergie doesn’t sign a midfielder, don’t blame the owners.
The money is there, if he needs it.
There was a time, when I thought the well was dry.
This transfer window has rubbished that notion.
Yes Cedars, cheers pal.
Very mixed feelings about this…
1. This does not mean that we will be able to buy players. as this transfer window has shown, we are not skint, and as others have pointed out, we wouldnt have spent oil money like a jonny-come-lately, even if we had it. So doesnt have anything to do with signings.
2. Might help in clearing off the debts, so that’s a positive
3. Keep in mind that anybody who buys shares wont buy them bcos they are fans, but bcos they expect a return on their investment. So that means you got to pay dividends. Exactly how much dividends the Glazers decide to pay shareholders (and themselves) is up for debate. What doesnt get paid as dividend, is reinvested in the club, so this equation is important.
4. The thing which makes me most queasy is the vagaries of the share market. Tsunami in S.E. Asia, Utd’s stock falls, riots in UK – ditto. De Gea lets in another one – WTF?!! As Stateside Aussie (?) questioned, anyone care to think of what happens to the shareprice when SAF calls it a day?
5. The think which makes me optimistic about this is that it might indeed be the “beginning of the end” . But you know what – you gotta be careful what you wish for. Frankly I would rather have the Glazers than a bunch of PEs owning United. At best, new ownership means uncertainty. At worst, it means you become a Russian playboy’s dildo. Known devil, and all that – you know?
Hopefully the debt will be massively decreased and so money is not wasted on interest payments (45mill/year). Also hopefully the only owners ever to saddle our great club with debt will be gone in the not so distant future……but if United becomes a PLC again, others like the Glazers or the racehorse owners before them could easily buy the company and the same situation could arise. Supporters owning the club is impractical but a voice on the board is important to protect the soul of the club.
Apparently, Hilarity will be ensured for the next four weeks or so.
CedarsDevil, u got it wrong dude.
Buy established superstars?
You mean Messi? He’ll not leave Barca.
Ronaldo won’t leave Real the virus Madrid too.
Only mercenaries superstars are available with no loyalty to our club.
I for sure won’t want a jersey with a mercenary’s name on it.
@Chica,Cedars is being sarcastic mate
@Chica Chicha – You have never read Cedars posts before, have you?
Willie, taa for the shout our kid. But, really what I was meaning was Scott actually writing something, rather than reporting something. Scott writes some brilliant, from the heart, thoroughly red tinted stuff. It just seems it’s not as often as it used to be.
As for the financials, I can’t really comment. The Mrs does the money, I just spend it. As a result, I just don’t understand it…
I just hope that we don’t ever end up with shareholders who care more about discussing returns at an AGM than they do about another blinder from Wayne at the weekend. We have enough of those partially interested shites calling themselves fans. We really don’t need them having anything like a controlling interest.
@AceMace
Can you tell me how someone in the UK would go about buying some of these stocks? And how much would ‘a couple’ cost, dya reckon?
@Jeet – Spot on mate!
Also read that to float on the Singapore Stock Exchange, the parent company should be sponsored as well as managed by a Singapore based institution.
This thing could become complicated.
Willie
hello there!
reply to your post on other thread
Those are healthy debates which you have mentioned about GHTT & AIG/ RedScot & all
*not some stupid idiotic pointless swearing and getting personal all that stuff
Cedars
i hope SMARTALEX(sorry for naming you) rearranges his guard, as of now he is dragging every bit of useless trash to another level, with his so called RESPECT campaign
and i hope he understands that he is not an FA and this isn’t PL
smartalex
by no means this is an attack on you rather a mild reminder of what is actually happening due to your over indulgence in to every bit of trash thrown by trolls
Jeet – I don’t wanna think about Fergie leaving United. I’ll probably hit the prozac lol. In 3/4 years time, we could have new owners and a new manger. New dawn for United. Good luck to the guy who tries to follow SAF. Might be the reason, The special one will succeed Fergie. The only man I know, with a big enough ego, to manage United after Fergie. I’ve went off Mourinho replacing Fergie. Who else, is out there? Moyes, or Larry White?
@Mes
No worries mate. I’m sure Scott will come up with something lol.
on topic
I’m not very confident about the volume of money raised through this listing
anyway, whatever may be that amount is, if it is used to clear up debt, then that is good enough for me
ancha think your memory is a little clouded about the good old days,Redscot and AIG stirred it as much as anyone
Willie, I’d rather have fuckin Barry White than Maureen. He’s a decent enough manager, not the world class he thinks he is I reckon, but pretty good all the same. But there is no way that classless self righteous twunt is worthy of taking over from the best we will ever see. Aside from that, he just doesn’t have the class to be at United. His ear grabbing behaviour last night was disgraceful. He should have had a ban for that. You see him standing back with that smug cunt look on his face? Wanker makes my blood boil.
RMW, @ 14:09, Ooh, that is interesting obstacle thrown in to the mix as well. Like Anders said, there is very little information known at this time to make an informed decision. Like Jeet and Stateside, I don’t want this to happen.
My post regarding fan ownership was more directed at people who think that will be a good idea. I know and understand that it will not be the case here. However, how can people actually think it will be a good idea if fans bought the shares is beyond me?
@willie, I would think one of our legends could take over if the timing is exactly right. Ole seems a good bet now. He has been in-charge of the reserves for United and is now making waves at Molde. Scholesy could throw his name in to the hat as well. Of course, if Sir Alex were to leave in the next couple of years, the above isn’t applicable. But I would imagine one of the reasons for having Scholes, Ole, Red Nev and others take their badges is to see whether they can take over from the boss when needed.
“The money raised by selling off this chunk of the club could then be used to reduce the club’s debt.”
The operative word being “could” here.
If the Glazers are serious about having a long term strategy at United then I guess this would go some way to stepping in to line with the Financial Fair Play Rules by paying down the debt.
However I think it’s a shame the stake hasn’t been offered to MUST or the like for a step towards fan ownership. Atleast we would have more of a say in the running of the club we love.
@willie: know what you mean! I dont think it will be mourinho simply bcos with each passing day, his cuntish behavior is doing his candidacy great harm. Result wise, he might have been perfect though. I wouldnt mind someone like Van Gaal or Rijkaard, but I think they will try to find either a brit, or a utd old timer (Blanc?) for the job.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1456118_manchester-united-ready-to-play-game-of-patience-in-hunt-for-key-man-wesley-sneijder?all_comments=1
Check out the first comment on this article. From a bitter, no less. Obsessed!
i’m still thinking David Moyes has a good chance,Sir Alex likes and respects him,i’m sure if he left Everton alot of clubs would be interested and alot question why he hasn’t left because of Evertons financial restrants,some put it down has having no ambition i personally think he’s waiting to apply for the utd job.I think there’s a good chance utd will hire a british manager.
I enjoy mourinho from afar and on a entertainment level,thought he was going to be a good fit,not so sure anymore.He doesn’t build teams he spends money,utd are more likely to hire someone who can deveolp talent rather than someone who wants a blank check to sign rentboys.
If the Glazers just convert the debt to equity we are just replacing interest payments with dividend payments. Dividends yield is going to be a lot less than the 9% we are paying on the bond but it also lacks the tax advantages. Plus the Glazers will likely start paying themselves a regular dividend too, seeing as they are the majority shareholder. Financially nothing much will change.
But that’s the optimistic scenario. What if the Glazers pocket the money from the floatation themselves, leaving the bond debt in place, and we have to pay a dividend on top of the interest payments?
Balaji – Possibly mate. One of the legends could be ready in 3 years time. I would certainly like one of them to be involved with the club in some capacity. Fergie has said in recent times, that we’ll go for a more experienced manager.
@Mes
Hello mate? I seen what Mourinho done. Cheeky cunt lol. That’s what put me off him lately. He gets involved in too many of these incidents, for my liking.
@Jeet
I think Blanc would be a dark horse to take over from Fergie. The boss was impressed with him, when he was at the club. It’s a strange one with Rijkaard. He had great success with Barcelona, but really hasn’t had a look in at any other club since his time at Barca.
sneidjer agrees terms with united…now he must demand a transfer. thought inter wanted to sell him? wait they did but they dont now? but they apparently will sell if the offer is right? inter say hes not for sale? inter confirm sneidjer is for sale………..u cant help but have a giggle at these fools all trying to guess shit..and whats gona b more amusing is if he does/does not sign what will they say..if he does then its gona b AS WE REPORTED IN 2003 or if he doesnt AS WE REPORTED LAST MONTH..it just makes me laugh…anyway back to earth we go, is any1 of the thinking that we should of kept hargreaves on a pay as u play deal as i really did like the guy and i cant help but think hes gona go somwere and be a star(typical when u get rid of an injury prone player)..just would of liked to see him have 1 final shot as we didnt give him enough time..lol
Shouldn’t the RED KNIGHTS, if they were serious, buy all the shares as soon as they become available?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2011/08/why_man_utd_asian_float_could.html
Interesting article on the Glazers motives.
mocthezuma
I should imagine that defeats the point of a public offering. The stocks will – in theory – be available to anyone, and I shouldn’t think a small group of people can ‘bagsy’ them…
@mocthezuma Red Knights wanted to buy utd for less than a billion and even then would have had to finance the deal.
The Red Knights idea was to get fans to boycott merchandise and ticket sales to undervalue the club,basically run utd into the ground so the glaziers would have to sell cheap and they’d profit.
Knights promised MUST a big say in how the club would be run to get MUST’S backing,very devious sneaky people imo.
@kanchelskis
“BAGSY” THEM..lol..sorry mate im a fan of silly humour
I live in wrexham and the supporters are trying to take over the club and they are making a rite balls of it so that is a no no. people say we have spent £50 mil i bet in wont be net £50 mill at end of window if we dont sign another player. GILL is a fucking liar how can we have £180 mill to spend when we lost £105 mill last season after winning league and champs final .Idont believe a ward gill or what those ugly bastards say the only way to compete is oil money fact
Are there any other folks here who haven’t bought a new United shirt or anything like that since the Glazer takeover? I haven’t bought one, but it’s got me wondering, what would the Glazers have to do to get me to start throwing money into the club again. I think settling the debt might do it, because it was the debt that I really loathed, I don’t think they have been bad owners beyond the debt. That’s not to say the debt is a small issue, it’s a huge issue, but it is for me the only issue I have with them. Outside of the debt they have made us a lot of money, supported the manager and done right mostly. So with the debt gone, I’d go and I’d get me a new shirt.
But I’m wondering, for anybody else who has held off buying that new shirt or whatever because of the Glazers, what would they have to do for you to reverse that position?
@pritch the red
i see what u mean mate but we have spend over 50 mill on 3 players who are the future of the club plus we have fantastic young players breakin into the team..do u really want players who are only interested in money..i for sure dont, i believe sneidjer will sign but if he doesnt then som1 will step up mate..would you not feel better if the crop we have now were to take us to number 20..i would love that as i would b able to say “who needs all that fuckin money”..
believe in the manager mate cause he believes in the team and he hasnt let us down yet and if he says the money is there then its there.
keep the faith bro
@Doghouse
I dont think buying a United shirt puts more money into Glazer pockets. As far as I know, Nike have a fixed deal with United. i.e. they pay United a nice big fixed sum ( I think 15m a season ) regardless of how many shirts Nike sells.
So if you buy a United shirt, your money just goes to Nike. If ALL United fans EVERYWHERE never buy a United shirt, Nike still will pay United that sum of money, until the contract expires.
Correct me if Im wrong
@Balaji Sivaraman Explain to me how one bloke, with £750m debt, paying out £47m a year in interest payments, with ticket prices increasing and a net £0 spent on the squad is a good fucking business model over a fan owned club which would have Zero Debt, No interest payments, Lower ticket prices and no in it for other than running a bloody good club.
In this country there are 26 fan owned clubs. It’s not just FC United and AFC Wimbledon like you believe. There are another 24 with that likely raising to 28 total by the years end. Do you know who these clubs? No, do you fuck. You don’t even know the time. Lets look at Wrexham, the current business person who owns them won’t put the moeny in, they are happy for them to go bust. Who steps? The fans. They raised £150,000 over night to save the club going into a whole heep of shit. Don’t EVEN thing about knocking fan ownership. I know you have this daft vision where you think there are 100,000 people all voting on next centre forward we sign but it’s not like that in the real world. In the real of Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern Munich, Dortmund and countless others which you and I would struggle to name, fan owned clubs are the best of the best. Swansea City are 20% owned by the fans and they have a member on the board. Wait a second under your views they should be down in the Conference? Where are they? The Top Division. Norwich City another club with fans buying as many shares as they can! This Logic that fans can’t run a sporting club is complete bollocks. The Green Bay Packers. What did they win last year? and who owns them? They won the Superbowl and are owned by the fans. Barcelona FC Champions League winners and owned by the fans. The 26 English Football clubs owned by the fans and doing constently better than the ones around them. A large number didn’t just do well, they got promoted. The facts speak for themselves. Lets see your facts, that shows fan owned clubs have been failing all over? Oh wait, it doesn’t exist.
The comments on that MEN article are absolutely hilarious. None more so than the Citeh fan calling us the new bitters. Couldn’t make it up.
If they had any sense the would look at Chavski and realise that since they’ve had the Russian money, we have still won than they have.
We’ve seen off bankrolled teams trying to buy success before. Citeh will be no different.
I know I’m naive in these matters – but how can the Glazers sell shares when during their takeover of the club, once they had 30% they had to buy the lot. So how come they can sell them again now?
ANCHA
No need to shout.
If you didn’t want to name me, you wouldn’t.
If your intention was to give friendly advice you would have done so.
You rarely add to the blog yet nearly all your comments today have been moans, so it is you that is “dragging useless trash” and instituting a “so called RESPECT campaign”
If you had chosen to be polite to me I would consider your views. As it stands I see clearly that you are a coward. I am not. I expect attacks from idiots like you for my pointing at United haters. When a poster attacks our players you don’t care or address the issue, whereas I deal with the wum effectively and absolutely. Instead of moaning at me for respecting and loving our players you should either attempt to reduce the attacks on United, or ignore the issue. When I pull up a poster for vicious lies I become the hated target of that poster and cowards like you. Fortunately I have broad shoulders, and weather the brief storm, eliminating the disgusting backstabbers and ingrates in the process.
Should I receive valid advice from a respected regular, it is incontrovertibly true and proven that I incorporate their wishes and adjust my contributions accordingly. When you have earned the right to determine how wums and trolls should be handled, and actually perform the unenviable task of reducing the hatred for United that is spewed, your views on the issue will be considered.
Further, you claim knowledge and love for a few regulars, past and present, yet the truth is that you don’t show any care or love for them. Actually, you lie. You don’t care for them at all, you just want to be liked. On the other hand, it is absolutely clear that I do care very much for the regulars, and stand by them no matter the personal cost to my contentment or standing amongst the chattering ingrates like yourself.
_______________________________________________________________________
Good Afternoon Reds!
@andymufc
You think Barca and Real’s success comes from them being ‘fan-owned’? Get a grip.
AndyMUFC, spot on!
Kanchelskis – Real Madrid? No, their success comes from the Spanish government.
arca? Definately. Their success comes from their members, who own the club. Where else could it come from?
@andymufc: might be a lot of merit in what you say, though I think you are getting a bit too aggresive…personally I believe fan-based ownership can work IF the right reps make it to the board. I don;t have too many facts about the demerits of such a structure, but aren’t Barca’s finances shot to hell? I thought the Govt. is literally bailing them out bcos they are a national institution blah blah blah? fat chance of that happening to us though heaven forbid such a day ever arrives. I am more concerned about the valuation being subject to stock market whims…I firmly believe that certain industries are not suited for public listing (in fact, I work in what I believe is one such industry) bcos they cant afford to get affected by the ding dong markets…
which actually brings me to an interesting point – one of the key things to consider before floating is the timing. From what I see, this seems to be an absolutely rotten time to float…which in turn, makes me even more suspicious. As someone said, could this be the glazer’s last diabolical move? Pay off the debts with the float money, and leave us with the challenge of paying dividends?
@RedAlert260599
Barca’s gross debt stands at around €483m and the net debt is at €364m. They pay the highest wage bill of any club in the world.
Their model is not financially sustainable, no matter how attractive the prospect of fan ownership may sound.
@RedAlert260599: wondering about your surname…are you a bird and is that your ph. #? :LOL:
Ohh how stupid of me…SORRY!!! That was like an absolute imbecile…happens from working late…
:Gets up and starts looking for a place to hide:
Off-topic: it’s a great day to be alive.
Smartalex
I dont need to prove anything…and i dont seek any care from anyone….and some regulars know how much i have contributed in the past…but the point here is how much is worth posting…as compared to you
as your reply to me shows….when someone posts something that is not to your liking…you are going overboard…and many other posters have already seen what you are capable of..all the stupid fights that drag on for the whole threads…
Its not me who is actually moaning here…..almost every other day i see you having these kind of idiotic retaliations towards many fans & trolls both…
whilst i appreciate the regular news updates you give along with your opinion, that would have excellent if you left it there i mean your contribution rather than going overboard with every wrong word posted on this blog
wayne
I remember those, i didn’t there were no arguments and I’m pretty sure those are not anywhere near what we are seeing these days
Even one or two old regulars made the same point in the last month or so…..
anyway….this is the exact i thought a lot before raising this issue..as this also is resulting in same kind of useless personal debate…
this will be my last post regarding this issue…
Will the shares sell? Is that a serious question?
Christoff. What? Yeah how on earth will we compete. I mean we have only won the last four of five league titles and made three european cup finals. Fuck me.
King Eric – no, thanks
@Jeet
Hillarious response.
@andymufc, Drop the tone, alright. I haven’t yet seen a United fan who doesn’t want the Glazers out. I think 99% of us would want them out. But, in favor of whom? Do you have better owners out there? Do you want to be made prostitutes to a pimp like Abramovich or Al Nahyan? I don’t want that. As already pointed out by kanchelskis, Barcelona have probably the second worst financial model in football behind Manchester City.
Hypothetically, any form of ownership can work anywhere. But, IMO, any business will be run properly when one person and his board is calling the shots. I am not dumb. I know fan-based ownership will not have 10000 people discussing whether we need to sign Sneijder or not like a fish market. However, I feel that whenever the control is with more than one person, you are asking for trouble. There will be too many conflicting opinions. I am, and will always be, against fan-based ownership. Of course, if said fan is a business guy and has enough money to take over the club and can understand its finances, then I am all for it.
And are you seriously comparing Swansea to United? United is a global brand. The biggest sporting brand in the world. Unless you have a bunch of Harvard alumni as United fans, it is going to be impossible to run the business side of things for something as big as our club. There are too many things to factor in for running United’s business that sometimes it will be difficult to even comprehend.
Look, knowing from the blog you linked, we are never going to meet eye-to-eye. Needless to say, I know the kind of evil the Glazers debt can pose. But I also know that they are people who understand their business. I have no idea whether the person who takes over will be a pimp or some gracious person with a shitload of cash. All I know is the evil that is present has got us 4 PL trophies and 3 CL finals. Sir Alex has kept the club successful and we will continue to remain that way.
@Costas: cheers, mate – I’m still feeling embarrassed after my last post on redalert’s username (God – how could I be that daft!!!).
AnomanderRake
Buying a United shirt does put more money into Glazer pockets. Nike do have a fixed deal with United, the value of which is determined by predicting shirt sales based on past revenues. If a lot more shirts are sold, United make a lot more on the next Nike deal. They are absolutely linked.
Pritch. Oh turn it in pal. We have spent fifty and looking to buy sneijder. We know that as fact. Cannot see where gill is lying.
@Jeet
Yeah you should be ashamed.
Nah, don’t sweat it. Just make sure you never forget your girlfriend’s birthday. There’s no coming back from that. 
Goalkeeper Petr Cech has been injured in training and will miss the next two weeks at least, but at worst he could be out for up to four weeks. Cech will definitely miss games against West Brom and Norwich, but he could also miss the games against Sunderland and Manchester United.
http://justchelsea.com/goalkeeper-injured-in-training/3558
We will beat whoever is put in front of us. However, the worse Chelsea do, the less chance there is of me having to get Meg’s bra signed for CedarsDevil.
will someone please explain to me if the glaziers are so bad for utd why has the value,tripled,quadrupled, since the takeover and why every year is there a bigger gap between utd and the 2nd place club which is real madrid?
whoever mentioned barca as a well run club what a joke 25th on the worlds richest list and mired in debt,the only reason both real and barca survive is by dodgy bank loans and goverment help,so please do not preach about how great those two clubs are FFS
Real sold their training ground 4/5 times, to fund big money transfers.
Barcelona had to take out a loan to pay their players wages last year.
Corrupt bastards!
@Balaji, I don’t want them out.
To remain on private ownership, why would anyone want them out without knowing what/who is in store? I don’t think anyone can safely say getting rid of the Glazers without knowing who’s in line is a known and calculated risk worthwhile taking.
On the other hand, is being a PLC any better? It is actually bloody distracting having the accounts out in the open. But as a supporter, it would be great to say “yes I have a stake in the club”, not that I would want to disagree with whatever they’re doing or will be doing.
Hmmm… RedAlert260599 and andymufc have gone a bit quiet, no?
@AndyMUFC spot on.
@andymufc, good reasoning. Now go out and find that X millionaires, or Y supporters who would be willing to buy the club. I’d also like to see how an AGM could be held, or not held, as the shareholders would be from all over the world. Let’s see what happens when a motion is passed to sign a player but gets blocked by some fund manager who holds a significant percentage of shares, owing to reasons of financial performance. Or wages. Or the number of players. Or the expansion of the youth academy.
Of course, it’d be great if the shareholders would sign some letter to delegate all matters to the executives, but that’s not gonna happen is it. This is United we’re talking about. Not FC. Man.
Apart from paying down some of the debt to keep in line with financial fair play , some of the monies raised will be used to complete the planned expansion of OT . i wonder what the ABUs and Citeh boys think of that in their Unity stadium lol .
@Kanchelskis..
sorry for the late reply mate.. I would really not know, all depends on how many shares goes up for sale, but based on recent floatations, i would guess that it would be anywhere between 3000 to 8000 pounds per lot… And it would be available to general public, so its usually sold out in hours. Im in South East Asia so Im not sure how you can do it from the UK but I would think that your general stockbrocker should be able to handle it. Hope it helps..
@AceMace
Thanks buddy. So that figure quoted would be the minimum required to own any sort of stock?
@ancha – Well said mate – Some people have appointed themselves “Guardians of ROM” without them being asked. There are too many who feel they have the right to jump and stamp on anyone if they dont share their opinion or if someone dares to criticise anything AT ALL within the club.
It is usually symptomatic of someone who has no authority in the real world so needs to feel like the BOSS on here just because of their seniority or numbers of posts.
So once again – WELL SAID
@YorYor, I said in an ideal situation mate. Which means if you can find that benevolent owner who only wants good of the club and who has the requisite cash to take over? Then, yeah, I would want the Glazers out since it means a debt-free United. Since that scenario will never happen, the Glazers stay. As Jeet said, it is the lesser of two evils. I’ve argued “for” the Glazers for a long time here. I know my business and I know that the business side of things continues to expand as we speak. People look at the debt and the rising ticket prices (which is bad I definitely understand) and the figures quoted in the papers, and think that the Glazers are the reincarnation of Satan, which IMO they most definitely are not.
Dispelling some myths about shirts.
1. Buying shirts puts money to nike not the glazers. Nike is global. Their valuation of the shirt deal depends on sales in UK to a point, but is increasingly a world wide concern. Increased sales will come back to the club in 5 year cycles as we pen new shirt deals. So sales DO impact the value of the shirt deal.
2. Buying shirts puts money to nike not the glazers PART 2. More shirt sales at the United store gets MUFC funds directly, Probably at lease 50%of the sale. Nike gets a percentage, but the point of sale will always make a hefty margin as well. If you don’t want united to get the margin, then buy it from a seller, like soccer.com or similar. But anything purchased at OT or online at ManUnited.com will see the club making at least 50% on full price sales.
3. G&G still has value. In my view, G&G had it’s day. In my view supporting the club is about supporting the players. Wearing someone elses colors only shows our players that you are not wearing their colors. If you want to support our players then get on down to United and kit out with a nice Evans6 or Jones4 or that really fine new keepers thread with de Gea 1. If Sneijder were to come, his deal is dependent on kick backs from shirt sales at OT. I’ll bet they get very little if you buy the shirt elsewhere. Other players have similar deals. If you don’t buy a shirt from the Club, then the players are not getting this part of their incentive.
4. Decreases in match day revenue decreases will impact the club and make the Glazers sell. That has been proved a lie and was based on very suspect assumptions and motives. It is true that match day income has decreased. But MUFC makes more off of media and world markets than it does from match day income and has done for years. The only thing that giving up your season tickets has done is give them to someone else and diluted the attendance of true fans who know how to sing our blessed songs.
Support this club. I am sick of the don’t buy a shirt campaign.
Balaji Sivaraman
This is why the ‘Red Knights’ was such an attractive prospect… business acumen, fans of the club, willingness to invest, and knowledgeable about football. Too good to be true if we’re honest.
Great news but lets see if it actually goes through. In the past too we have such news floating around, with the Red Knights and a few more
Coming back to the game against Spurs this coming Monday, here’s a look back at 5 of the best United wins against the Spurs in the recent past
http://www.thehardtackle.com/2011/manchester-united-v-tottenham-a-great-advert-for-premier-league-football/
Quite correct Balaji. They are in fact, the reincarnation of the pod people.
So much to read and catch up on. I have gotten better with the keyboard and my computer skills thanks to the love of Man Utd and football.
I still struggle to articulate myself like a Stateside, MG, samartalex Balaji ect. but so many write and express themselves with aplomb.
I have read only half the posts so far I must say how I love when Cedars was questioned like 4 guys jump in for him!!!! I love this place.
Barcelona played a high tempo game and overcame real, can’t imagine current man utd matching them in prowess.. sigh
I was # 100 hehehe
The Guardians of the Republik!
Who are these people?
Zibbie – The quality of your posts has steadily improved almost beyond recognition over the last 9 months. This is partly because of your improved vocabulary and grammar, and mainly because of your determined application to learning from knowledgeable and intelligent Reds such as Costas, willierednut and King Eric. It is also due to our better understanding of your excellent sense of humour.
Keep it up, and we’ll be visiting your blog soon enough!
Interesting stuff on andersred blog. Calls for unity between all the fans groups, fanzines etc. Passionate stuff. 1 million fans – £100 each
“Looking back, many fans realise that we missed our chance between 1991 and 2005 to build a meaningful supporters’ stake in Manchester United when it was listed on the London Stock Exchange. Leaving ownership to City institutions led to the Sky bid, the manipulation of the club by Magnier and McManus and eventually the Glazer takeover”.
“It may be that none of the numbers stack up when we see them. It may be that unity is not possible, but we screwed up our last opportunity to get meaningful supporter ownership in our club and we would be wrong not to look at this opportunity closely. Together. United”.
Parryheid is the emperor of the Republik. We are merely the minions of the water biscuit.
What ever you feel about the Glazers, you have to admit their fucking crafty businessman.
Bought the club on loans, and raised the United ‘brand’ that when they do eventually sell United they’ll pocket a shit load.
Why I do think it’s a bit sad that we can’t afford that central midfielder we’ve all craved for the last few years, at least they’ve not interfered with the football aspect of the club.
Silver lining being if we don’t sign a Sneijder or a Modric by the end of the month, Cleverley, Pogba and to an extent Anderson will all be given a better chance to seal a first team spot.
@ king eric are u talking about the same gill that said level of debt is not good.then the ugly bastards grab the club and he says oh the level of debt ok he must of been thinking of his big fat salary .
nothin like listen to other peoples debates and waiting for the angry response..there is no websitr with such passion for its club..hehe
anyways heres my take on madrid and barca
firstly madrid, them mother fuckers..they spend how much every season and yet were is there success??they should take a leaf of our football club and the manager and see were the foundation of success is..its called youth.
as for barca? there in a hell of alot of debt and although they may have been successful over the last few years there foundations are up the left as like kanchelskis said there wage structure is so fucked up. does anyone who harps on about them actually watch them?they are a bunch of diving cheating cunts that get away with murder. if that was united diving around like them fucks u would never here the end of it..fucking disgraceful club the pair of them
a real football club is run the way our club is, we have never had to go out and bring in the top names to be successful all we have needed is sir alex..our youth are the new foundation of this club and i cant wait as we have a long successful road infront of us..
so i say..
FUCK MADRID
FUCK BARCA
united are united as always will b united……….:)
‘In an important under 21 international fixture between the Republic of Ireland and Austria last Tuesday, Robert Brady, the young Manchester United prospect, who is currently on loan at Hull City, stole the show. Not only did he score the two Irish goals, the first a brilliant header at the end of a sparkling move and the other an injury-time winner from the penalty spot, but he also illuminated the game with some majestic flashes of brilliance – weaving runs, penetrating passing and a sublime first touch. Definitely one for the future.”
http://www.corkman.ie/sport/historic-night-at-the-showgrounds-2851624.html
Sooner these Yanks go the better. Even if we sell & become rich like the Berties we still wouldn’t end up paying silly wages to players. LUHG
@Kanchelkis
yeah mate… That would be the minimum.. But then again, its a number im running off the top of my head.. Because they havn’t announced the total number of the shares… The total value of shares that are supposed to be floated is thought to be 400-600million pounds…
The berties aren’t rich, their current owner is.
Willie, Friendly-neigh-spiderman
That’s actually overstating what i have mentioned, anyways i didn’t mean the same…so please don’t associate me also with that post
ancha – I didn’t address you on this thread.
A Friendly Neighborhood Sneijderman by name, but not at all by nature.
Learning a lot on the football business from most posts! Glad to know Barca is a debt ridden club financed by politics doesnt FIFA have something against politics being mixed with football matters. Ban Barca! or do they only answer to UEFA. What about Inter Milan, how are they managing to pay the wages they do is it OIL again?
Brady also scored for hull in their 3-0 smashing of Liverpool in preseason….another good prospect
With Inter, it’s Olive Oil!
AUGUST 18, 2011 AT 17:03
Balaji Sivaraman awsome. Lesser of 2 evils, I dream of a benevolent billionaire with a RoM love of Man Utd. Then I wake up to the worship of the $, making wonder was that Clint? Can I drive the car Clint?
Thanks smartalex, as my spelling gets better the spell check can help me with the words I use in every day conversation, when I misspell them close enough for help. hehe
willie some sobering thoughts?? New Gaffer and new owners I believe will come close together as well.
JM a stud with Media demons. Moyes has done right by Everton,
King Eric – In response to your question directed to me earlier on, This is why i said it:
drink 7 pints of lager, 1 viagra, an overdose of two sleeping tablets and a neurofen tablet which you shall mistake as a paracetomel and then after the shakes,shiverring and groaning, you shall fathom my RoM’anian friend experience why i said what i did and feel my state of mind. I felt profound at this state, so for the complete expericience be profound.
——————————————————————————————————-On Topic:
Who should start against Spurs? Im going for a suprising.
De Gea
Jones Smallings Vida Evra
Nani Carrick Giggs Cleverley Young
Rooney
with Berba, Park and fletch making appearances possibly welbeck thrown in if fletch aint back.
I think Vida was a precaution and Evra should be fit. Jones given a run out. Giggs brought back in to battle a strong spurs midfield. Whilst playing Young wide but also as a support striker because we need the work rate in a big match like this.
I have a feeling SAF will throw in a suprise who wouldn’t, Fletch starting? Park finally getting a game? Evans at left back? Fabio starting despite being short on full back postions? Who knows?
Maybe Sneijder will come on in the No. 2 Jersey and tear up the middle of the Park whilst throwing rolls of money at Adebayor after his recent paycut.
Let’s see how much of this money will be spend on the bonds.
First of all they’ll use it to pay off the loaned money for the PiK.
I know a lot of people here aren’t big fans of the Glazers, I myself have been a very vocal critic of their highly leveraged business model (not their behaviour as owners mind you) which brings me to my present comment.
I know it seems a step in the right direction, but floating it on the exchange like a plc is probably not the best way to run the club with all the listing agreements and clauses requiring transparency in transfer dealings and all. Its becomes very difficult to organise quick and secretive transfers, plus certain “material” information must be disclosed to stock-holders and special resolutions required beforehand in certain transactions.
Lets hope its the real fans of the club who get hold of these shares, who aren’t interested in the dividends and all, just want to own a part of the club for posterity. Because I wouldn’t like the share price of the club go up and down with every victory and defeat…For god’s sake, we lose one game to Chelsea or Man City and the stock price could nose dive or a champions league exit could mean a drop in shareholder value…The media would go to town wanking over the “Fall of United” and “financial meltdown at United” when actually there would be no such thing because a couple of defetas shouldn’t alter the value significantly..
But as we know, if its not the real fans, and purely financial investors, then they might create panic and start to sell the shares which could hurt us..
Lets see how it unfolds…I just wish the Glazers would tell us whats on their minds or Maybe Gill could make a statement soon..
I have followed Man Utd for 9 years now so I have seen young ones come and go. To see them develop into the first team is magic. My first was Fletcher, then Evans now TC and Wellbeck and more on the horizon. This is like my 2nd favorite thing to game day. And the business side of things must be great. No transfer fees and then the odd millions you get from sales of C.Evans, Eagles ect. ect.
predictive text can’t even cover up the cosequences of my life, my last post had several errors so i wiil limit my vocabuary to small words for tonight.
The Glazers? Terrific owners, of course they are. Sir Alex said that he has all the support he needs from them, how the fuck should I argue with that?
As supporters of this great club we have enjoyed great success whilst they have owned the club, what more do we want?
As far as financials are concerned, well its an area where I am a complete dumb fuck and in all honesty I do not care….. Much rather worry about when Hernandez and co will be fit, or how I will celebrate our next win and rub in our rivals’ faces….
Addictive sex is far better Papii.
@Papii nice chemistry cocktail. 27 and a boner pill? Remember if it last more then 4 hours seek immediate medical attention. Being 1/2 Italian I need no such pills. hehe as so many here say Dago.The other 1/2 is Irish, I love the Irish connection with Man Utd. Thanks for the info on the young Irish lad smartalex.
Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it’s a better cow than the one you’ve got in your own field. It’s a fact. Right?
Is that why we’re joining a stock exchange? So that we can swop some our cows?
KILL THE SPURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
‘Sergio Aguero will aim to banish the memories of his last trip to Bolton Wanderers when he returns to the Reebok Stadium for a Premier League clash on Sunday.
Aguero was 19 when he played for Atletico Madrid against Bolton in a UEFA Cup tie in February 2008, coming off the bench in the second half but lasting just 12 minutes before he was sent off for spitting at Bolton’s Matt Taylor.’
ReGlazers, several on here have been taking the Glazers to task for their business model and Red Devil brings in the excellent point that a stock sale is risky. But a point from Andersred (a true red in my view) is that the glazers might be using this option simply to raise funds for themselves in a way that doesn’t take funds from the club.
Specifically, it has been widely stated that the Glazers are fully entitled to take 10-50M from the club every year. Something which they haven’t done. While it is very likely that the failure of the Glazers to take their entitled funds is down to the vocality of fans groups and the oversight of our unheralded numbers wizards (like Andy), this is not proven.
10 years of Glazers taking 50M would be 500M, rather similar to the expected return from the IPO. Hmmm.
Every business is owed a return. Even IF the IPO turns out to have little benefit to the club directly, it will allow the Glazers to sort out their own finances in a way that won’t directly burden the club. Not sure there is a down side to the club.
KILL THE SPURS
Now that is language I understand and enjoy
Kill the spuds!
Off topic, A spanish journo talking to an inter Milan agent (translated)
The Dutchman is expected to close his move to Premier League club next week.
Jose Alberti, Argentine agent and manager to work in some operations of Inter Milan, is convinced that Wesley Sneijder eventually playing in Manchester United.
Yesterday, as collected in InterGoles.com, reported that the Dutch had their claims decided reabajar economical to 70,000 euros a week, much less than the 200,000 euros a week calling at first.
The objective of this reduction is that the Old Trafford club to try again since his move from Dutch intent is to play in the Premier League this season.
“Sneijder will leave Inter Milan. Just think Manchester United and the club knows it,” says Alberti.
These statements contradict the Massimo Moratti, Inter’s president, who yesterday said Sneijder “will stay in the team whatever happens.”
make of it what you will
smartalex – Now that makes sense to me
Boner pill.
Would love it if wee Fabio scores on Monday, that bloody celebration and smile on his face is a bloody joy
How long is Hernandez not playing?
RMW
I think he should be back in full training after a week or so
CedarsDevil – All these complicated financial dealings that (almost) none of us understand or know are analysed, attacked, advocated and admonished in such knowing fashion by all and sundry.
I prefer to get my advice on detailed financial dealings from money men, not football fans. I’m happy that people want to understand and like talking about it, but I don’t partake in an in-depth discussion when all I can add is that we are the champions!
One man’s meat is butchered while another’s is roasted. I like my cows grazing.
Fabio bleeds red.
Andrew (Andy, to us!) Cole says:
“I had a pleasant chat recently with Daniel Welbeck, the Manchester United striker, and gave him some advice. He really impressed in the pre-season, and his loan with Sunderland last season has done him the power of good.
Welbeck has all the qualities required to make it as a United striker. He can drop short and he has a lovely touch, but he needs to score more goals. I told him that no matter how well strikers play, they are judged by their goals. He knew where I was coming from.”
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/sport-comment/forward-thinking-for-managers
last year’s UCL semi-finalist Schalke 04 is taught a lesson in football by mighty Helsinki
have no idea what this finacial action by the club is. They’ve cried doom and gloom but the club still here long may that continue.
Romelu it seems was taken by Jimmy Floyd scoring at OT. apparentlyit made him a blue
Kudos to the Glazers? Get a hold of yourself man, i wont be surprised if they use a good portion of the funds raised to bail out their struggling US businesses.
Not to mention, why they would rather do this than sell shares to the fans?
I have a feeling this is gonna be negative in the long run.
slightly drifting..
Heard the arrogant cunt David Villa said soemthing cheap abour Ozil’s religion Islam? and that is what made Ozil lose out in the game..
and bloody Gerard Pique said ” Mourinho is destroying the spanish football”
yeah the same spanish football full of diving cunts?
when will this CUNTALONA improve?
CUNTALONA sucks and i hate the bastards no matter what they achieve in football…fuck em all..
fuck the full of CUNTALONA…
I’ve been laid up in bed the last few days and unable to follow most of the posts. Feeling better now (thanks for asking!) but I’ve missed too much to go back and catch up on.
Being listed on a stock exchange isn’t the worst thing that could happen, though it’s not the best either. I think that speculation about what the money will be used for is probably wasted, since that most likely will be spelled out in the prospectus and would then be very difficult to change later. If you say “we plan to use $500 million of the proceeds to pay down the following debts and buy back bonds”, and then you don’t do it, that would constitute an outright fraud in any jurisdiction, including Singapore. They can do what they want with the money — but the existing debts will transfer to the new company, so investors will want to know what the plan is. if the Glazers say they’ll keep all the money fo themselves (or say nothing at all), that will greatly influence how investors view this float. There’s a big difference between investing in a company that has 500 or 600 million of debt, and one that has none (or at least, much less). So because of that, the Glazers can’t really ignore the issue — they have to say in the prospectus what (if anything) they intend to do about the debt, and if they make any declaration about using the float funds to deal with it, then they cannot later say “oh, we changed our minds, now fuck off”. Really, they can’t.
As for the bonds, which also represent debt, I understood there are restrictions on when the company can force bond-holders to sell these back. There are certain times they can do that, and certain “events”. These were all pre-specified in the bond documents (which I have never been able to find). Rumor was that the first time-based opportunity was in 2013 or 2014. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if one of the “events” that can trigger this is a public float. Well, let’s say, it either is or it isn’t. If it is, then yes, the Glazers could use this to get rid of the bonds (and as explained above, they would need to spell this out before the float because the market would want to know). If it isn’t, then they can’t and the bonds will stay, at least for now.
Build a bonfire,
Build a bonfire,
Put the Scousers on the top,
Put City in the middle,
And we’ll burn the fucking lot.
Welcome back StatesideAussie, voice of reason!
here is the link for Villa’s contract on anti-racism..
http://www.unesco.org/new/en/media-services/single-view/news/david_villa_becomes_the_first_footballer_to_accept_the_unesco_sponsored_anti_racism_clause_in_his_contract_with_fc_barcelona/
Cheers smartalex.
This is good news.
The Glazers have done thier homework and picked the Singapore exchange for the benefits they are looking for.
This means the debt will be cleared this fiscal year.
Probaly cleared will be whatever loan they took to pay off the PIKS.
A clearer picture of MUFC finances shud also happen,with stockmarket rules.
The ownership of a club , prefer the Glazers if they maintain the way they run the club now.
Dont want to risk it with owners like shitty or chelski or any new owners who need to borrow to buy the club and put us back on the debt again.
Its good at the moment ,lets hope it gets better. With this move it looks like MUFC will have no problems with UEFA or FA rules on finance or players homegrown or whatever else .
While shitty and chelski have terrible business model ,they are going to suffer the most alongside liverpool and others ,cos thier debts are growing and their revenue streams are not increasing to levels they want.
So after all our fears,anger, the shit that abus threw at us, looks like MUFC will be debt free and growing healthy and happy.
I am not jumping the gun here lads,just the logical chain of events.
And I trust David Gill and Fergie. They dont lie and they saved MUFC.Only those who did not pay attention for the last 10 years or more will think otherwise.
ABUS enjoyed fucking us around, now if the Glazers do as we expect, we MUFC are ok and the next greatest challenge is to keep Fergie and find a new legendary manager,hopefully in 5 years time.
While they are the ones left fucked and fucked and fucked.
StateSide
What was wrong buddy? Bed bugs?
@StatesideAussie: Dude ,hope ur well. I down under the weather as well.
The bonds buyback clause , wud be interesting to know.
But Manutd have already used some cash reserves to buy back some bonds.
The 504mil pounds issue or so is now 480 or so mil pounds.
Wud have been lowered more but the Arab takeover rumours pushed the price up.
@Dave Malaysia nice post. I love that I’m in Dubuque Iowa on the Upper Mississippi and chatting with people from the UK to Malaysia, India the Mid-East wow what a time we live in. More people alive right now then have ever lived before. I will be in the Pacific Rim for the first time next summer if all goes to plan. Start in Thailand and go from there. Me and my lady are picking dates for a spring trip to Ireland and a game at Old Trafford!!!!
Stateside be well. Blessing’s your way.
Harry redknapp has now conceded that selling modric to buy 4 players might be better.
I said few times , hold your line or lose yr ground and respect.
Spurs are losing thier ground and respect.
While ,yes its good to build with 4 new players, u fucking took a stand cos he is yr most important player, now unless they are offering 50 million or more ,stand yr fucking ground.
This is another sign all this big spending mommas are now realising thier foolishness in the transfer market. Thier debt has risen and they now cant be buying like they used to,at least Kenwright sounds depressing to everton fans but he is honest.
So when Gill and Fergie are prudent, all these abus and some stupid fans go ballistic.
Now who did right and who fucked up?
I trust Gill and Fergie. Saved our club. MUFC Gurkhas.
@Zibbie: Wud it be fair to say ur a crazy dude? u sound like a beer guzzling ,fun machine!
theres goin to be fires burning from us to uk to the pacific.
Dont forget to stop by paradise Kwa-Zulu Natal . U will find smartalex in a kilt,with tuak and maybe boyabuya the Zulu .
Breaking News:
World Exclusive:
Wesley Sneijder prepared to drop another pound from 249,999 to 249,998 to make sure the deal to United goes through!
Old Trafford waits in expectation at this kind gesture from Big Bad Wes Part 2
@MG: Hayley says hi!
how ur doing?
United should belong to the fans.
=
Cheaper tickets
no debt
better beer inside OT
turover used on building out OT to 90.000 capacity and…
…buying players like Messi if we want them
Gday my good mate Dave
It’s a real great thing you’ve found typing in your dreams – I must say this is a breakthrough in human evolution
The real Hayley and I are sharing a romantic moment she laughs at your comedy gold.
I’m okay mate – how are you? Isn’t it middle of the night where you are?
@MG: Maybe I am typing in my dreams, its 2.50 am Friday, on leave , not well.
Wht do u make of mourinho’s eye poke?
Whats up with this guy?
@MG: Yr question above on the PIKS, yup the Piks were fully paid, everyone wants to know how but yeah its paid.
@sandeep … if Villa said something insulting Ozil about his religion, then he’s dispicable. But if Ozil let it get to him, then he’s weak-minded.
Dave Malaysia – having the glazers will be having your cake and eating it to. If united clear the debts, and leave the glazers incharge, we will have a much more stable future. I do not want owners like the russians or the Arabs. I have hated the glazers on how much cash they have taken out of the club, but if we become debt free the hatred will be gone
@Dave
Well mate I hope you get better – to the PIKS – yes it would be very helpful to know – interesting times ahead at the Theatre of Dreams…
Mourinho was an idiot – a future United manager? By the day he’s making it hard for himself – what amuses me is that the man next door of the other team will probably take over
That will rile him big time – but like I said he isn’t helping himself – his team were the better team – that’s the irony of it – yet Barcelona again cannot be beaten – as Costas says this is going to be one mission for sure…
These Sneijder rumours are boring me alot lately. This mong on twitter keeps mentioning reasons why he might come, & keeps calling fans ‘fickle’ for not thinking he will join.
IMO, I don’t think Sneijder is needed. I think a Diarra/De Rossi type player would be ideal. But I don’t think we need a midfielder as much aas people are making it out. We should give Cleverley a chance, & if he turns out to be half as good as Scholesey I’ll be satisfied. But it annoys me how people are expecting him to be as good as Scholes. It’s unfair pressure on the guy.
I think this is a big season for Anderson, can even see him getting a few goals if he stays injury-free.
Cedars, Dave, others … no idea what was up with me. sweats, chills (in 100-degree heat), aching muscles and joints, dizzy, no appetite — didn’t eat anything for 48 hours, even then I had to force myself. Lucky I’m a big fat cunt, otherwise I would have wasted away. Seems to be clearing up now, feel much better today.
Hey Dave! My tuak supplies are getting low, I’ll float over some crates of tropical fruit to you, and you send the crates back with a couple of kegs for me.
andymufc – go figure out your facts first, before you come out with so much garbage, the debt stands under 500 million. I would not be surprised if its 380 million or a little higher, but 750 million did you see the 220 million payed off. I live near the town of swansea, and to compare swansea to manchester united, then you really have no idea what you are talking about. Swansea is so small it is terrifying, the club is one of the smallest clubs in britain, united are the biggest and are nin the top 3 of the biggest clubs in the world. You could fit swansea’s stadium inside OT and have 30,000 seats left over, United are a gigantic corporate juggernaut. Swansea is a small community, a small piece of manchester is the size of most of swansea, it is the middlesbro of wales.
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw out the glazers.
@MG: Thanks. Bit cryptic ,which other guy taking over what other , huh?
He is isint he, the top candidate for us in the future.
Well dude ,goin to rest, see u tomolo.
Hayley dear , coming to bed now.
@StatesideAussie: Go see a doctor,looks like ur having an infection or virus, get some antibiotics ,it will clear up quickly. try som vitamin B complex for appetite.
@smartalex: sure buddy,just send them over, tuak all ready.
hope ur well dude.
ok,took medcine,drowsy, need to go before @MG does his last comment bit.
I’m very well Dave Malaysia, thanks buddy! You look after yourself, and we’ll see you through the window!
Spurs breaking hearts!
Why the fuck are we playing on a Monday night? I looked at the fixtures over the nest few weeks and most of our matches are on Sundays….. Fuck this TV broadcasting crap, I miss 3PM Saturday kick offs..
Get well soon StatesideAussie!
@Dave
See ya mate – yep let those painkillers kick in – Hayley is right there – just fall away and close your eyes and off to sleep
The actual debt is around 477m pounds.
@Stateside
Get some sunshine in you mate – that should do it
Failing that Doctor Dave has it just about right
It’s C not B but more the vitamins the merrier
Fuck me look at Hayley on SSN…..
)
Is it love or just pure lust..???
Not bad, but make mine a Meg any day of the week
http://mbalbert0513.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/hayley-mcqueen-1.jpg
booandman – Both mate. She’s fucking beautiul pal. Lust because of pure sex appeal. Love as she is a United fan.
Fucking Monday!! It is like 2 months before a 3 sat start!
Dave I like beer, ale, whiskey, gin, vodka, wine cocaine, acid, mushrooms and weed. Mostly weed now. Been awhile for the psychedelics, anyone young enough I highly recommend acid and roller coasters.
Cedars
That’s not a Meg that’s my Hayley!
I deer hunt on my place, and man there are some big bucks this year. I harvest mainly for the meat. If on comes by with a huge rack or one I would add to my wall BANG !!! I have a buddy who hunts here. He makes food plots has cameras taking pictures of these deer. There are 3 monsters out there this year. One with the look of a moose.
she sure has cock sucking lips Cedars….!!
IBM came to Dubuque last year and have hired 1500 or so. So for the first time there are Indian people moving here. This one Indian women that hangs out at my favorite coffee house is so fucking hot. Well anyway, Haley is fucking beautiful, I saw her once in jeans and very little make up wow. I love Georgies voice and laugh. How fun would it be between the sheets with her laughing?????
I just googled Meg and the first Meg that came out was Ryan not Fox.
Evening you glorious Reds.
My god. Hayley looks even more spectacular than usual tonight. Imagine her taking off those specs, shaking her hair down and giving you a come hither look. Crikey!
On topic, there have been some good posts on this thread. Thanks to the guys who can make financial jibberjabber sound normal for us folks who don’t understand like myself. Looking at the overall picture, it sounds pretty decent no?
Yes
slept off all side effects
The boner pill lasted 6 hours and was quite shocked when it went down, got kind of accustomed to its presence.
Good to Spurs playing midweek….they won’t be fresh for Monday and Modric could be ruled out so alls good.
Kyle Walker, Livermore and Andros Townsend are quality youth players, Danny Rose is good but I have a unfriendly feeling towards him because of an error he made in the u-21 Tournament.
England would be in good hands if it had the right management nationally and clubwise and offered their youth more first team opportunities instead of continuing with old has beens like Barry,Gerrard,Lampard, Terry, Cashley.
At least Rio misses out internationals completely. Euro 2004, World Cup 2010, and barely any caps with that Jon Telly Cunt .
Mes
I get that everyday from Hayley
In slow motion as well – peculiar thing this thing called love.
Yes to Mes.
MG, how much do you love Sky+ slowmo?
Zelh – I love the fact that MUST and the anti glazer brigade, always twist their comments to their own ends by saying the debt is 800 million etc. Heck before the PIK notes, the debt was reduced a bit. The debt is at a steady ship, now it will be gone in a year happy days ahead.
Mes
Never heard of it
I get Hayley for real don’t you know?
Papii LOL.
I got your rant though. Top performance cost. Single mindedness is a powerful force.
So few achieve. The difference between a winner and a champion is huge. Sacrifice to some is nothing for others.
Meg….Smeg…. there’s only one ,,,,,,CHERYL…..
I broke into Cheryl Cole’s dressing room before she arrived at the X factor studios at the weekend and wanked myself off into a bottle of her L’Oreal shampoo.
Because she’s worth it.
Zibbie – I like those words of those
Im stealing it word for word 
I work in finance and I can tell you that if listing was such a great idea all the clubs in debt would do it.
What I understand is that the Glazers need to list to pay off the loans they used to pay off the PIK high interest loans secured on United that are no secured personally on their assets.
There are many ways of debt financing, loans, bonds and listings are all ways of raising money. United has loans, it has issued a bond – which requires some 45mn a year in payments to bond holders -, it has now come to a situation where to raise more funds a listing is needed. Yes, the money from a listing can be used to pay of club debts, however, the shares are owned by the Glazers and can be used for any purpose they chose, i.e. paying down their personal and other business debts.
Listing a Club is also cumbersome and means their is an obligation to shareholders to maximise profits – whereas with private owners they can be more flexible. SAF has previously expressed his dislike for working as a listed club.
The Club will also be subject to rules of the Singapore stock exchange, which mean reporting requirements, approvals in relation to expenditure also become more tedious, e.g. player aquisitions…in effect the Club becomes far more complicated to operate and shareholder returns take precedence over Club investment, also the value of the Club is then subject to market conditions which will dictate what United is worth in these volatile times.
Overall, I do not see this as a good signal as you wonder what is really going on at an underlying financial level with the Club and the impact this will have on the ability to manage the Club in an independent way. Ideally, I would hope that one investor bids for enough shares to de-list United from the Stock Exchange and operate it as a private company, in much the same commercially positive way the Glazers have, but without the enorous debt levels.
However, note the Glazers can list all or part of their shares. So this listing may be designed to sell a minority stake in the Club to clear their debt – likely their personal debt first to release liquidity. The choice of Signapore is also interesting, it is a credible exchange in a low tax jurisdiction and the aim here seems to be to attract Asian investors. My guess is they already know some of the people who will be buying shares and this deal has been structured to facilitate that.
I will wait and see what the listing particulars say, however, I am not particularly happy about this right now, a careful private buyer would be preferred lets see.
I like those words of Yours – Yeeesh
David May’s Match Preview : Manchester United vs Tottenham Hotspur
http://7cantonas.com/2011/08/david-may-preview-manchester-united-vs-tottenham-hotspur/
@MG – if that’s true, you guys are welcome over anytime.
@Tony – brilliant.
Watson
In the Red!
Really is Willie Red Nut now!
willie
Remarkable!
Mes Your welcome welcoming me though Hayley just said to politely decline the offer
Willie. Ace video that. I watch it often.
Smartalex. Not much going on in that David May preview is there? Nice sly dig at citeh but not much else going on. Yeah we know Bale played well in the Champs League but he didn’t do that much else and was easily outshone by a certain United player.
Andy. Oh come off it pal. How on earth can you compare united to swansea and milton keynes wimbledon? Not comparable in anyway.
Also did I see someone say we can buy players like Messi? Seriously.
Very clever. Float on the exchange with the least disclosure requirements, in a territory that is overun with United fans, desperate to get their hands on a few shares – which coincidentally, is all they will get because the IPO will be massively oversubscribed. End result: high number of shareholders, each with a few shares, valuing the club at circa £2bn from day one, with low shareholder churn, therefore little to no scope for any Mr. Bigs to stake build anything significant. Glazers remain in full control with the option to delist in years to come, if they so desire.
Don’t see too much downside on the face of it, but would like to understand more soon on the plans to use funds raised.
Very clever. Float on the exchange with the least disclosure requirements, in a territory that is overun with United fans, desperate to get their hands on a few shares – which coincidentally, is all they will get because the IPO will be massively oversubscribed. End result: high number of shareholders, each with a few shares, valuing the club at circa £2bn from day one, with low shareholder churn, therefore little to no scope for any Mr. Bigs to stake build anything significant. Glazers remain in full control with the option to delist in years to come, if they so desire.bDon’t see too much downside on the face of it, but would like to understand more soon on the plans to use funds raised.
Mes – Yeah, Maysie makes me laugh though, even when he’s trying to be serious!
I enjoy his blog, although he doesn’t update it very often. He organises evenings out in Manchester with legends and other United ex-players. I’d love to go on one! He is a legend in my book!
http://unitednights.co.uk/BLOG.aspx
Great video redwillierednut!
smartalex
Is willie telling us something?
Is he Roy Keane?
I am he.
Smartalex. That link is much better. Especially the Bolton beating Citeh bit!
P.s my autocorrect on my iPad keep trying to write your name as Smarts ex
MG – By the way, Megan Fox > Haley McQueen
willie
Never
Hayley
Megan
Or should I say Mr. Keane.
Smarts ex
Bloody technology!
Wow Atletico spalshing the cash.
They sign Radamel Falcao for 47m€
Smarts ex? Much like Fed ex.
Willie is Red now cool.
Papii thanks man.
I wanna Won
I don’t wanna win
I wanna won
In the end there is only one
The Champion
Athletico using United’s and City’s money to good use. Falcao will score goals for fun in Spain.
No value in the market then if the Inflated price scandal has reared it’s head again
TONIGHT:
It is being reported that Wesley Sneijder has dropped his wage demands from 299,998 to 299,997.99p in order to secure a deal to OT
The United fans carry on waiting with great expectation.
Willie / MG I’m just happy it puts the space in!
Falcao @ 47m? What the hell was Fergie on about? No value in the market?
Sorry wrong figures:
£248.000 to 247,999.99p
willie, your red nuts look bigger.
Apparently the Glazers are listing 30% of their shares and trying to get 600mn, subject to confirmation.
@ Paul H – disagree that there will be few buyers mate. Anyone globally can buy those shares unless their country restricts them and the Singapore exchange is an attractive offering also because of the secrecy laws there. People thought United would fail with the bond issue but that placed and I expect that the investment banks advising and financing the Glazers already have privately placed substantial chunks of the shares which would be usual. There may also be an initial minimum holding requirement/subscription which would limit people ability to subscribe for a few shares.
But I agree with you, if they can pull off selling the shares, keeping relative control of the Club, then de-listing and having a relatively debt free Club, that would be great. However, that would require them being financially in a position to de-list, the way things appear to be going listing more shares, rather than less appears to be the direction the Club is headed. PartyGaming also listed 30% of shares initially to test the market, the 4 major owners then sold of huge chunks of the 70% shares the held on to. This could be too clever by half, it could also be a partial exit by the Glazers who might want to test the waters valuation and share appetite wise and see what they can get before they take the plunge.
Further, while they say their aim is to pay down Club debt, from what I understand, that is their primary, not exclusive aim. And also, it would not look good to say actually , we are listing the Club cos we really need the cash. Further, no matter what they say, the Club will have a duty to meet the interests of shareholders and ensure a reasonable return on investment.
A further risk is if the share price falls, then the valuation of the Club may go down, resulting in potential implications for the gearing ratio and debt remaining secured on the Club. Interesting times, Asia is where the money is, let’s see what happens, no dount the S. Korean fans have their United credit cards in hand.
Evening Reds bored out of my tree driving in rural alberta doing my store run,anything happening
I have a question for you folks who understand all this that appears gobbeldeegook to me. Are potential buyers of said shares vetted in anyway for suitability? Or would it just be first come first served?
Money talks so don’t worry if you have a criminal record or if you’re a pimp or drug dealer,still be able to buy shares
wayne
Nothing is happening
It’s very very very quiet.
@MG hi mate hope the writing is going well,love the fact in Alberta its nearly four in the afternoon and I’m in the middle of nowhere yet still log on to rom to kill time,amazing really
Mes
Think Rich. The I in IPO stands for Initial (Initial public offering). The IPOs are run through very limited channels that will not be accessible to the “average” investor. Only IF there are unpurchased shares would they come out to the general market place where more ordinary investors might get a crack.
Short answer is that Only large funds ( investment houses, retirement funds, government and oil money) get access to IPO events. If they can cut the check, they can buy the shares. We could find out the next day that the king of Siam or the a drug cartel owns 1/3 of the Shares. Good thing is that you are unlikely to ever know AND this will be a small piece of the club, so no way to get a controlling interest. Maybe a bit nervy if you have never thought about it, but little to worry about. Essentially the same process as with the bond sale. None of us really know who owns the bonds either. No risk to the club nless the value of the shares plumets.
wayne
The writing is going very well mate thanks for asking – your situation sounds like a story in itself
gobbeldeegook what a great word.
Fletch and the rest thanks for all your expertise. Some one said just fans opinion, but some fans are Brokers, Investment bankers ect. Some guys on the Fox thread before the crash called in months before it happened. Saved me a lot of money.
Fletch. Taa muchly mate. Just the answer I was looking for.
I have to admit, I actually took economics at school but I usually skipped it and went spray painting the back of the sports centre instead.
@Wayne, Cheers mate. Just think on Tuesdays headline.
“United thrash Spurs in rout”
Modric storms off pitch saying he wants trade to Champ19ns!
Commentator Jaime Rednapp overheard saying United were the best side he had ever seen.
Betting on United for 20th closed because rush on houses.
I’m a season ticket holder and i hopld my hand up and say I criticise the camera club at United that just take pictures during games, they tend to be east asian but i think with some of our club being sold off in their homeland we should embrace all types of fans from Dorset to Malaysia and this is coming from a born and bred manc!
Glaziers what a bunch of jammy bastards bought the club 6 yrs ago if this goes through will be debt free and have a 75 percent share of a 2bill business,unbelievable
MG, sorry for the delay my friend! We’ve just had a big storm, so my internet connection has been intermittent this evening. SmartSex? Using my head to penetrate the issues! Perhaps I could help out on some of the cases that TonyBee and you have been solving? I do have some research experience!
If Barca did not have the best midfield pairing in the world and possibly of the last 20 years and the best player in the world (as much as i love Ronnie) then they would be fucked to put it in layman’s term.
United is a global juggernaut that spreads past OT and these shores unlike clubs like Stoke and Everton whose appeal runs as far as Staffordshire and the river mersey respectively.
Undoubtedly United and Arsenal have the best business models in world football. One is self sustainable despite huge amounts of debt due to brilliant corporate deals all over the world and the other is a ‘spend by our means’ model that promotes good football. However because Arsenal don’t spend they don’t get a reward but they manage to stay there abouts.
West Bromwich Albion have held further talks with Owen Hargreaves and are confident that the former Manchester United player will pass a full medical if they can agree personal terms with him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/18/wba-roy-hodgson-owen-hargreaves
This story has resurfaced, so perhaps there’s life in the old dog yet.
If Hargreaves goes on to be a star at West Brom and leads them to Europa League football some serious decision making question marks at Carrington need to be asked.
wayne, how the hell do you manage to contribute while driving?
mes, graffiti is a religion. Let us spray!
@MG I supply a bunch of small stores in the country with DVDs for sale and rent but alberta is so big I clock about 3,000kms a week,so I have main stores in Calgary and Edmonton then about 40 racks in the country
@FletchTHEMAN hi mate that would be sweet,I’m really confused at the moment if we really need anyone else
“Telegraph Sport can disclose that United submitted an application to list on the Singapore Stock Exchange earlier this month and expected to achieve a formal listing before the end of the year.
Sources close to the application process have confirmed that, within the draft prospectus submitted to the Singaporean financial authorities, United’s owners have laid out their reasons for the 30 per cent sale of their holding in the club.
Central to their submission is confirmation that they will significantly reduce a £480 million debt to make United more competitive in the transfer market.
The proportion of debt reduction has not been specified, but it is understood that cutting the club’s borrowings, rather than servicing the Glazers’ personal financial commitments, is the primary reason for the partial flotation”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8709789/Manchester-United-owners-the-Glazers-promise-to-cut-club-debt-with-600-million-flotation.html
Wayne,
If you need even more diversion, you can laugh at City
ManUtdUpdate
The Mirror: “Nasri has told friends that his dream was to sign for United.”
ManUtdUpdate
The Mirror: Samir Nasri is joining Manchester City – but he would PREFER to sign for their bitter rivals Manchester United.
@smartalex one handed I’m mainly on secondary highways with very little traffic,mind you almost hit a deer the other day while writing a comment lol
Not so lol for the deer I assume!! lol (again)
Off Topic – For those living in the U.S.
http://www.WorldSoccerShop.com are offering an 15% discount on all merchandise
At check out, just enter the code: 7SAVE15
***SAVE SOME CA$H***
MG -
Just read your post about Ayrton Senna again. I love that post, everytime I read it I get goosebumps fella. I’d advise everyone to read it, truely great piece if I can remember it to this day.
The post was made in June….post of the year
Thread of the year – Thee 1000+comment Ashley Young Thread
@Cedars or the car if I’d hit it
Doh! Oh dear! I missed the dear
Wayne, a drop of golden rum
Rom, a site I call myself
Far, a long long way to run
NBIRedOnion – I don’t see the Glazers listing MUFC shares as anything but a positive, and here’s why.
If only 25% of shares are made available for sale to public, it’s likely that since MUFC is now a Delaware corporation, those shares will be non-voting and “non-preferred.” Why would they allow someone else to have any control over their company? Makes no sense.
The portion they keep for themselves will likely be “preferred” and voting shares. There will be no change in the decision making process at MUFC in any way. Basically, those buying the stock will be along for the financial ride.
Additionally, I expect that the Glazers will retain the option to buy back any and all stock, which they probably will do over time. Thus they can eliminate any and all debt and debt service payments which is truly a waste of money. They can re-acquire the outstanding 25% slowly but surely over time and eventually emerge with a debt-free club wholly owned by one owner, or family of owners. Additionally, if the shares appreciate, which they probably will given the financial success of the club, the Glazers could recoup more money and have plenty to repay the bonds.
I don’t see any negatives to this situation at all. This creates greater transparency, eliminates debt and frees up or creates more money for transfers or even an expansion of the South stand which has been long planned.
In truth, there will not be a football club in the world with better financial health and in a better position in regards to Fifa’s Fair Play rules than United. Not City, not Barca, not the Virus. This is infinitely better than having some dictator be our sugar daddy. Perhaps the only thing better would be a football-mad Bill Gates purchasing our club but seeing the way Chelsea are run I’d say no thank you to that. All in all, the Glazers let Fergie do his thing. What more can we ask other than to eliminate debt and give him as many arrows for his quiver as he needs?
^ (deer) ^
Neil’s_A_Red – Cheers, mate! 3 Neil’s of some form on this site now. The world is a better place for it!
Smartalex. Just off tweeting about that story. Great news if true. Still hate reporters who don’t quote anyone. Mark Ogden is a good lad, but can have some piss poor journalism at times.
wayne, you need voice recognition so that you can talk, and the software writes the comments. Also, your Garmin lady should be reading out our posts to you. She might blush with some of Goat or TonyBee’s comments!
Keep this in mind, imagine how fucked Citeh will be if the UAE goes tits up like Libya or has massive riots and unrest like Bahrain? At the end of the day, those citizens have zero say over their lives. Their leaders spend money like it’s a joke and their citizens get treated by the police and the courts based on who they know and what they have instead of equally. It can’t continue forever. One day there will be a reckoning and Citeh might wind up ass-out with no money to pay the ridiculous wages they’ve given to those mercenary cunts. Truly, it will be hilarious to see their panic if that happens. City is a house of cards.
FletchTHEMAN – With the internet taking over the world of news, the standard of journalism has predictably nosedived. People can get their news instantly and for free, so there’s not much money available to pay top salaries. If you look at the photos of most of the journalists, they like schoolboys.
I think that Ogden is a lot better than most, and i ‘m sure that story is accurate.
FletchTheMan … good answer to Mes’s question. Accurate, factual and well explained. Nice to see!
As I’ve said, I would prefer the club not to be listed. It leaves the club’s shareprice at the mercy of all sorts of forces that we have no control over. I raised the example of SAF retiring. I don’t think that merely winning or losing a CL final would have a huge impact, but the “market” could certainly react to something like the Sneijder transfer. Had we been listed over the last few year’s, how would the “market” have responded to Sir Alex’s “no value” policy and his “youth policy”, and the sale of CR7? My guess is that the market would have much less tolerant than the Glazers were (which is an interesting point in the Glazers’ fsvor, if you think about it, because there’s no doubt now that he has been vindicated on all counts).
Nevertheless, there can be little doubt that the Glazers have built United into a global money machine. And if it can be floated with either no debt, or very little debt, it must surely be viewed as a great investment. It has everything going for it — even the legitmate concern over the impact of SAF’s retirement is slightly offset by the fact that United has so much tradition and history of success, that even a temporary downtown in our football fortunes is unlikely to cause any serious or lasting damage to our marketing appeal (our “brand”, if you’ll excuse me).
Don’t forget, though, that if the share price goes high enough, or if the Glazers become desperate enough, they will be free to sell their 70% stake any time they like, to anyone they like. If someone can cut the check (as Fletch said), and the Glazers will accept it, the deal can be done. Or do people not remember that this is exactly how the Glazers themselves bought the club in the first place? With borrowed money?
Terrible typo! Sorry!
‘the journalists LOOK like schoolboys”
smartalex … profound comment at 23:52. As an over-the-hill ex-journalist, I can attest to that!
Stateside Aussie – Thanks! I presume that your comment applies to my emended statement?
@smartalex is that possible with a blackberry
@ wayne – I doubt it, but someone on RoM should know. I think a laptop on the seat next to you should be able to do it. Probably even an iPhone.
Can someone knowledgeable advise us?
@wayne
Speak comfortable-length messages, freely and naturally! MyCaption Voice Recognition is highly accurate and secure. With its Voice-to-Text capability, you get higher productivity and convenience. And it synchronizes your e-mails, calendar, SMS text, note, memo and task entries exactly as if you typed them yourself — to your Outlook, Google Apps or to Lotus Notes. It works seamlessly with BES BlackBerry® Enterprise Server .
You can review text before sending. Add afterthoughts, make corrections. The ultimate mobile productivity app!
Pay as you go, $8.99 for 25 minutes total Talk Time ~100 messages *
http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/2738?lang=en
@wayne – … and here are some more…
Top Five BlackBerry Voice Recognition Apps:
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/blackberry-platform/articles/82039.aspx
@wayne – As you’re driving now, I’ll whet your appetite with a quote from that last link:
“Have you ever needed to type an e-mail but your hands were tied up with driving or involved in another important task that involved both hands? Simply click the side button of your BlackBerry, or whichever button you designate to access the Dragon app, and speak into your BlackBerry in your normal tone of voice. This amazing app allows you to free up your hands to complete important tasks as it recognizes your voice and translates the speech to text. Dragon for Email is free BlackBerry voice recognition software designed specifically for your e-mail and it types out what you speak quite accurately”
Rio’s in contention for Monday, according to a few newspapers (and the Sun).
smartalex … nope, I just plain missed it — actually read the original as “look like”, a sure sign that I have not yet fully recovered my concentration.
Well done Glazers, I never had a prob with them, they always supported Sir Alex .
Neil / Stateside / SmartAlex
This all sounds pretty bloody positive to me. I have to say, financially I’ve never understood the Glazer ownership. I’m not lucky enough to live within reaching distance of OT anymore so the price hike hasn’t affected me, nor do I even know if it’s in line with other clubs or inflation or whatever. All I see is that they let Sir Alex run the club how he wants. Maybe there would be a wish for a greater transfer kitty but we don’t know that for certain. As for the Glazers selling, it seems that, if they can clear the debt, they’d be mad to. But then, who knows if the right offer is made. But that risk was always there all along no?
There’s a lot written in this thread that, if it comes to be, I’ll be pointing out quite happily to any giddy bitter I can get within shouting distance of.
Oh and SmartAlex, did you come up with the religion and let us spray bit? Never heard that before. Like it. And for the record it pretty much is. I’ve been painting since ’85. The only thing that has stuck with me for that long is my love of United.
@smartalex thanks mate I’ll look into that when I get home
StatesideAussie, with some of the drivel I manage to serve up, a semi-focussed view probably results in a more palatable offering!
Oh and I proper lolled at journo’s liking schoolboys.
mes – I did think it up, but it’s likely been used before. For me it’s automatic to play around with words. Nearly every time I open my mouth I’m saying more than meets the ear. It’s rarely noticed and that’s probably a good thing. I’m clearly not as funny as I think I am!
Ha. Quality mate. I play around with letters instead and make them three dimensional
Right. Bedtime. Cheers red folk
smartalex … well there’s drivel, and then there’s drivel. Your drivel is actually nothing of the sort. You write well and are very entertaining — a born headline writer if ever I saw one. (And now, if you’d care to turn around, I’ll gladly piss in your other pocket too, lol)
wayne – Good luck with it, and let us know. There are doubtless others interested.
Mes – The schoolboy error was literally figurative. I have a nice turn off phrase, so to speak!
Only thing I ever painted was the town, Red!
Schoolboys smartalex? Roving reporter? Lol.
The question is Wayne, how did you miss the bloody deer?
xol – Good news mate.
StatesideAussie, Thank you sir!
How do I get those headlines to improve my bottom line without leaving home?
I live in paradise, and will probably never re-enter the civilised world physically.
Raving rapporter is probably closer to the truth!
@Willie – True, although none of us have been too worried about the injuries as we all want to see the youngsters given a go. Rio was making a habit of bringing the ball forward and putting in some accurate long balls in the U.S.
Joinee Jonesy looking good though. They all are. Evans and him in that 2nd half at Wembley. Smalling too.
smartalex … “I live in paradise, and will probably never re-enter the civilised world physically.” So you’re in Australia? Wow, I didn’t know. The first part of the sentence was a clue, but the second half nailed it. hahaha. As for work, there’s some online work going around (it’s what I do these days) but the money is piss poor. In a more practical sense, while they don’t care where you work, they do care where they pay you. This is mostly for tax reporting reasons (there’s the fucking taxman again). The mob I work for pay shit — but they pay it promptly. Sadly, though, they will only pay it to people who are tax residents of a few select countries.
@willie I slamed the breaks hard and the Deer skidded and was running parallel to the car then disappeared into the forest,it was a mother with Bambi had bambi on the drivers side and mum passenger
Really lucky in all my years of driving only ever hit one
StatesideAussie – I spent a couple of months in Australia, and learnt enough to know that it is a wonderful country, and eminently suitable for my residence. Not that I’d ever live there!
I’m born and bred in Africa, and although I have travelled, especially in Europe, I will likely never leave this great continent again; other than perhaps to holiday or, God-willing, to watch United. I have been living in South Africa for a long time now, on the coast of Kwa-Zulu Natal.
Like the moment when the brakes lock
and you slide towards the big truck
you stretch the frozen moments with your fear.
and you’ll never hear their voices
and you’ll never see their faces
you have no recourse to the law anymore!
smartalex … always been one of my favorite songs, that:
and you’ll never hear their voices
(“Daddy! Daddy!”)
and you’ll never see their faces
pretty powerful stuff. One of their best. Lot of people panned that album. I love it. It’s basically The Wall Part 2, imo. There’s an argument that both aren’t really Pink Floyd albums at all, they’re really Roger Waters albums with Pink Floyd as a backing band. But since that presumes there was such a thing as a typical Pink Floyd album, I says nuts to that!
Funny story I’d gone home for xmas was telling some mates how I’d hit a deer and phoned the cops and in canada its considered a act of nature not the drivers fault,deers run across highways all the time
One of my mates thought I was talking about a old dear,thought I’d bounced some old lady into the ditch and calmly phoned the cops to let them know she was dead
True story I pissed myself laughing
I stopped over in Cape Town for a few days once many years ago, but can’t really say I’ve been to Africa or South Africa. A pity. There was a time when I really wanted to go. (Just don’t mention the rugby! Hate the Boks!) I don’t think I’d go now, though. Nothing to do with the place, but I’ve done enough globe trotting already. My next move will be home, for sure.
You know this is wierd. The Glazers (the most hated figures in the entre history of our club) are actively planning one of the most profound changes to the club’s structure, and this is what we talk about? I mean, I am enjoying the chat (really!) but I expected well over 1,000 posts by now. I expected to be assaulted by fresh outrages of bile (or love) at every refresh. And yet, for the most part, there’s been a remarkable and totally unpredicted outbreak of commonsense, calmness and sanity. It just doesn’t feel right!
StatesideAussie – The Final Cut is an all-time favourite of mine. I think that album was panned by older Pink Floyd fans as a typical rebuttal to the upcoming youth that were ‘not old enough to appreciate good music’ and were ‘too late’ to join the party. As you say, there is no such thing as a typical Floyd album. Ummagumma was an early love of mine, as much for the music, as the song titles!
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict
Crazy stuff, right?
wayne – Has your mate ever forgiven you for letting him make the call? Will you ever let him forget about it? That’s a great story!
wayne … that is funny. I almost got done by a bloody kangaroo on my recent trip home. Came around a blind curve half-way up a mountain, the fucking thing was sitting on the side of the road looking right at us. The road was one narrow lane each way and no guard railing. Just as I got to the point of no return, the bastard hopped across the front of us. It was a rental car with no kangaroo bar on the front, and although it wasn’t a big animal (I am guessing less than 100 pounds) it would have done some nice damage. And of course I had opted out of insurance coverage on the rental. Luckily there was nothing coming the other way, and I was able to swerve around it (and avoid going over the edge). Got a lapful of my son’s hot coffee though. I swear that roo had a death wish. Bastard!
Bored shitless guys. Anyone on?
What kind of season do you think Young will have? I think he’s fitted in perfectly so far, it seems like he’s been playing in the team for ages.Bored shitless guys. Anyone on?
What kind of season do you think Young will have? I think he’s fitted in perfectly so far, it seems like he’s been playing in the team for ages.
Don’t know how, but that comment fucked up ^^
There has been a lot of talk on RoM over the break of the degeneration of the blog, yet in many ways the opposite is true. Now that regulars deal with liars and wums in a no-nonsense, logical fashion it is almost impossible to talk shit and teach rubbish to uneducated fans that naturally absorb what would seem to be truth.
Rooney was in Oz?
smartalex … the final cut was re-released some years ago with a “bonus track” that was edited out during the original sessions, “When The Tigers Broke Free”. I don’t think much of the song. Worse, they have inserted it right between “One Of The Few” and “The Hero’s Return”, thus ruining the transition between the quiet ending of The Few, and the sudden onslaught of sound that starts The Hero’s Return — which was always one of my favorite high points on the album. Sometimes “bonus tracks” and “director’s cuts” are actually a step backward!
@smartalex he was always the slow one of the crew,but his face and reaction when I was telling the story fucking priceless to this day always makes me laugh when I think about it.
@State kangaroos are mean fuckers aswell aren’t they,over here if you hit a moose big trouble
Neil’s a red … I think he’ll be fine. I see more in the style of a traditional winger, like Tony V, though Young can play both sides, like Nani. It will be interesting to see how SAF uses the three of them. The other day, I thought Nani moved inside a lot. If he and Young both start, I’d like to see them swapping sides randomly, just to fuck with the defenders’ minds a bit. But yeah, Young is doing well. I wasn’t all that impressed when I heard we were buying him. I said to myself, “That’s it?” But I happily admit I was wrong!
StatesideAussie – I never knew about that re-release. I guess that as we have heard their albums hundreds of times, any change will catch us out as we belt out the lyrics in our mind! Had that track been there from the beginning, it may have endeared itself to such an extent that omitting it now would feel sacrilegious.
I will be downloading it shortly, although it will likely remain as a single in my collection!
StatesideAussie – Now that I’ve downloaded it, I realise that I already have it, and have heard it many times. I think you’re affected by the interruption to your perceived natural order that has become ingrained.
wayne – I laughed loudly imagining your buddy. No doubt these special memories are our cherished connection to happy days long past. Laughter and love should live forever, or at least as long as we do.
I’ll admit, I wasn’t that happy when I heard we were signing him (Young), as I was a bit dissapointed that we splashed that much out on a winger when it was a midfielder that we needed, but I think he’ll prove to be a decent signing. He was quality against WBA IMO. Can see him getting many assists this season.
What are the legal and financial considerations of having ownership overseas?
What are the ramifications as to the so called “UEFA Financial Fair Play” constraints
Seen nowt from MUST on this issue yet
Has me shitting my pants
United 20/4/12 – 2012
wayne … a big red kangaroo is quite a large fucker. Nice creatures, smart and very well behaved (I am only saying this in case Neil’s A Red is in fact a red kangaroo!). They are not moose-sized, but you don’t want to run into one, either. Nose-tip to tail-tip, a male can be 12 feet and 300 pounds and stand over 6 feet tall. They can reach speeds up to 35 mph and cruise at 12 mph for hours. They can leap 6 foot fences without trouble. They are good swimmers and if attacked in the water, will try to drown their assailant using their powerful front paws. Roo leather has 10 times the tensile strength of cowhide. It remains strong even when cut extremely thin, making it highly desirable in applications where light weight and strength are both highly deirable … such as ….
football boots! Yes, I got the rant back to football! Roo leather is by far the most popular natural leather for footy boots, people! I wonder if our own Roo knows that? Guess he uses synthetic ones.
Note comment from MUST:
The Glazers’ PR people have been hard at work spinning the line that this Singapore flotation is primarily to pay down the club’s debt. That simply isn’t credible given the Glazers’ track record in business and we note they don’t give any specific figures.
What we do know is this could present a huge opportunity as well as a huge risk to our club so we need to act in large numbers and unified as United supporters globally.
Our view is summarised in three bullet points below:
The Glazers should use ALL proceeds of a flotation to repair the financial damage they’ve done to our club first before they take any money for themselves. That means they pay in full both the bond debt and all costs (interest, fees etc) they’ve imposed on our club through their takeover.
We expect them to punt for a massively inflated valuation on IPO. If that is the case we’re advised that the share price could bomb when it opens for trading on the market so it makes sense for supporters to hold back until the price settles before we buy shares.
We don’t expect them to make it easy for ordinary supporters to buy shares so we will be providing a mechanism to do this once we know the state of play and taking into account the point above.
As a general overview we can’t improve on City Analyst (and MUST advisor) Andy Green’s (Andersred) take on this so we’ve reproduced his blog below although please read the original here. Just a note on the valuation following discussion with Andy today. If they are to pay down some debt as part of the IPO then that will reduce the effective valuation below the previously calculated figure below.
The key issues surrounding a United flotation in Singapore
Readers will no doubt have seen the story, initially reported by Reuters’ International Financing Review news service yesterday, that the Glazers are planning to float a minority stake in Manchester United on the Singapore stock exchange (the “SGX”) later this year. This story follows rumours in recent months of a listing in Hong Kong.
What could it mean for the club?
The first thing to say is that we have few details to go on. IFR mentions a “$1bn” listing, around £600m. How much of the club that would represent depends on the valuation on flotation the Glazers could achieve. Suggestions in the media that £600m could be raised with the Glazers only selling around 30-35% would indicate a very high valuation in excess of 21x EBITDA[1]. By comparison, Stan Kroenke’s acquisition of Arsenal earlier this year was at a valuation of around 14.6x EBITDA and Fenway paid 11.4x EBITDA for Liverpool in 2010. The suggested United numbers may of course be bankers’ puff, but they are certainly aggressive.
The second obvious statement to make is that actions the Glazers take are generally for the good of the Glazers and nobody else. It is notable that neither the club nor the family have made any attempt to consider supporter involvement in any flotation. Information is, as usual, very scarce.
In my view there are three main issues for supporters stemming from this news:
1. What will the Glazers would do with the proceeds of an IPO?
One obvious answer is to pay down some of the club’s £400m (net) debt, the bonds issued in 2010. That would, without question, be good for the club, reducing the interest bill (currently around £45m per annum) and freeing up more cash to invest in the club.
The other answer, and in my view far more plausible, is that the cash will go to Florida to bolster the Glazers’ personal finances. As has been well documented, the Glazers obtained £249.1m (c. $400m) from an unknown source in November 2010 to repay the infamous PIKs. I have it on good authority that this money was borrowed. The family’s highly leveraged US strip malls business, First Allied, continues to struggle. In 2013, NFL teams will have to meet a wage “floor” which will (on current figures) reduce the profitability of the notoriously low spending Tampa Bay Buccaneers. All in all, the family could do with a significant injection of cash.
It seems logical that the flotation plan is really just the “Plan B” adopted by the family after they decided (in the face of the green and gold protests) not to use United’s cash to deal with the PIKs (for evidence of this fear of supporters see this Bloomberg article from October 2010). With the club’s cash pile not available, a minority IPO is the logical next choice to get the Glazers out of their financial hole.
If I am right and the Glazers are intending just to take some personal profits, there will be little short-term impact on United’s finances, although the club’s dividend policy may change. The club would not be obliged to pay dividends after flotation, but there is a risk that further cash would have to leave the club under the new structure. On the flip-side, if an IPO relieves the financial pressure on the family, the risk of them taking dividends out (which they are already able to do) is reduced. Once again we need more information.
2. Should supporters try/want to buy shares?
Looking back, many fans realise that we missed our chance between 1991 and 2005 to build a meaningful supporters’ stake in Manchester United when it was listed on the London Stock Exchange. Leaving ownership to City institutions led to the Sky bid, the manipulation of the club by Magnier and McManus and eventually the Glazer takeover.
A flotation of United, even in Singapore, gives an opportunity to own shares in our football club again and that cannot be dismissed out of hand. The problem is of course that any supporter stake would be as a minority in a Glazer controlled business. With the suggested valuation so high the sums needed for a meaningful stake look very difficult to achieve.
Despite these issues, I think as details emerge, we should as supporters look very carefully at this new opportunity. A minority sale is a major change in approach by the Glazers and looks likely to be the beginning of the process of them selling the club (although this may take some years). If that is the case, supporters need to be thinking now about how they can be part of a new ownership structure.
The sheer size of Manchester United may appear to preclude any major stake for fans, but in some ways the scale of our support provides the opportunity. MUST have 172,000 registered “e-members”, the club claims 330m “fans”. Looking at those two numbers, could 1 million supporters be brought together in the next twelve months and commit to invest £100 each? That would be a significant toe hold. A great first step on the way to greater supporter involvement in years to come.
3. What should we do now?
In the short-term, we all need more information on what the Glazers are planning. How much will they sell, to whom, when, what will the board structure be, what will the dividend policy be, how long will the family’s remaining stake be “locked up” etc, etc, etc. Without this information we can only talk in generalities.
As these facts come out, I passionately believe we need to achieve some new unity amongst our support. MUST will, as the mass membership official supporters trust, take the lead, but we need to try and build a consensus with all groups including IMUSA, the three fanzines, principal forums, FCUM (who remain part of the family), and possibly members of the “Red Knights” consortium and groups like Stretford End Flags and others who some feel haven’t been sufficiently “anti” in recent years.
Definately shitting my pants.
Wayne get up to NWT and go for the roaming buffalo – generally lazy bastards who lay down in the road so you can drive right over them
UNITED 20/4/12 – 2012
smartalex … I don’t doubt you are right — 9 times out of 10, the version that most people like of a particular song is the one they hear first. When that album first came out, I dodn’t think I listened to anything else at all for about a year. So yeah, the original was undoubtedly ingrained in my mind. Permanently etched there, in fact. How dare they mess with that! lol
torontored … I have been wondering about the financial fair play rules too but can’t find anything interesting to say about this means in that regard. MUST have been vocal in the press and sent me an email. They will no doubt kick up a fuss that ordinary fans are not being a given a look in (because all the available shares are likely to be sold to large institutional investors before the actual float, so there won’t be any left).
This vid explains all on the financial rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVS8V5tvUv0&feature=player_embedded#!
OMG
Those awake this late click on my name
I have found a RED Devil, Red Hot Devil
NSFW or Kids or wife or Girlfriend or friend
———–On Topic———— Those Glaciers are doubling the money they ACTUALLY invested. (£200M) by selling below 30% of total Shares for around £400 to 600m. Nice tidy profit for those cunts.
& When they sell up in 2018 for a estimated £1.6 to 2 Billion. Well lets just say United was a good business to tool.
The pricks will have most likely made a at minimum a £1.2 billion profit on their actual invested amount and we’ll be left with a bunch of Thaksin Shinawatra’s and Carson Yeung’s in charge.
As a greedy capitalist fucker i am pissed for not having £200m to come up with the idea before those ginger,jewish,smart business minded leaches.
@Stateside,wow didn’t know such a versatile animal,sounded like you were describing Superman lol
@smartalex i agree mate,seems like memories make everything better,i’m sure it was just as stressful, brain seems to filter the bad and mundane out and just keep the good stuff.
Sateside Aussie – them kangaroos sound more like fucking Superman than anything understand they stop bullets and leap really tall buildings off their tail from a standing hop with a single bound – know you Aussies expand a bit but fuck me the fact they also make decent boots makes me want to head to Darwin and knock a few off just for a new red pair – do they improve your game as well?? Commentator “Here he is – game up 200% since he donned his new roo boots”.
BTW do you live in Texas??
Moose Boots and now you’re talking.
UNITED 20/4/12 – 2012
Is their any copyright law on roo boots?
UNITED 20/4/12 – 2012
@ Neil, points noted, and I hope the listing is a positive and that will only be true if enough money is raised and the money is used to pay of the Clubs debt – however the whole thing just smells to spun and pure. The Listing Memorandum (offer documents) must make commitments to investors to incentivise them and the policy in this sense will need to be reviewed in detail when the document is made public. Further even if the Glazers retain majority control, they are still obliged to comply with the listing rules and the offering documents, further, any bad moves on their part could knock the share price.
Additionally, in relation to the bonds United issued for 500mn – those are still in circulation and I am not clear what the Clubs policy will be in relation to the staggering 45mn p/a payments on these bonds. I am not sure that the Club can simply “buy back” this debt, and it may ultimately remain an ongoing debt obligation secured on the Club over the years. The listing may help pay the annual dues, but depending on the terms of the issue and any debt-equity swap options, this could remain an ongoing liability. Indeed this whole excercise seems designed to try to swap debt for equity, the question is whose debt and what proportion will United get and how will the bonds be dealt with – are they going to ring fence the cash, what do they intend to do.
I doubt however, that the Glazers are doing this for the good of the Club, they are clearly listing as they have financial issues and need to squeeze some money out into their sticky paws. The Listing will also release huge cash that they can take out as dividends. Make no mistake the Glazers have put some good people in charge of commercial stuff, but the Club is a cash cow for them, they do not give a damn what supporters think.
What do you get if you cross an elephant with a kangaroo?
Big holes all over Australia!
What did the springbok say to the wallaby?
Better luck next year, mate!
Kangaroo boots? Must be about 3 feet long, and have no traction.
There’s no studs in Australia.
torontored … wow, monster post. Can’t say I got a lot out of reading it. It seems to boil down to “We really don’t know enough to say anything for sure — so we’ll just assume the worst.”
What I want to know is why so many people think a fan-based model would be a good thing? Whenever I think a fan-owned model, the thought that leaps out at me is “politics”. I mean, someone’s got to be the figurehead who actually runs the business of the club. I guess in most fan models, that’s an elected president. But tbh, the thought of some smarmy glib silk-suited cunt pandering to the perceived whims of fans in order to get himself elected to run our club, sends fucking chills down my spine.
Look at Pep Guardiola: insists on 1-year rolling contracts for himself because that’s the only way he can keep the politicos under control — in effect, by threatening not to sign for the coming year. Is that what we want to see here? People making outrageous promises about players they’ll buy and managers they’ll hire or fire? Regardless of how little football (or financial) sense it makes? Just like in real life? Honestly?
Look at how people — fans — have reacted to David de Gea and ask yourself, what if he had joined in the January window, spent a few months in training, made his debut toward the end of the season, and turned in those performances — and there was an off-season election due. It is not a far-fetched scenario, not at all. How do you think a skilful electioneering politico would use that in his campaign? Or the Sneijder thing — either promising to get him no matter the cost, or criticising our failure to do so? Fuck me — politics are inseparable from a fan-based model, and when you have politics in a football club, it is inevtiable that they will interfere with the football side. It cannot be avoided. Because the people who vote them in are “fans” and that’s all fans care about it, isn’t it?
I don’t like the debt we have now — it is too high. I don’t like the share float. But I abhor the idea of a fan-owned or fan-run model. Because, guys, I just don’t think we, the collective fan base, are up to the job.
@smartalex anyone could make it a funny scene in any comedy,i was camly mentioning how deers run across the roads all the time and how it’s not the drivers fault if you hit one,then i was telling them i swerved to miss but caught the right hand side and bounced it into the ditch,etc,etc and all the time he wasn’t relating to deer he was relating to Granny.lol
torontored … not in Texas. California, mate.
NBI Red Onion … good post.
SmartAlex … lol, though I think the wallabies have had the wood on the boks this year. Beaten you 2 out of 2 mate!
wayne, It’s a good thing that you didn’t tie it spread-eagled on the bonnet of the car to take home for venison! His eyes would have popped right out!
StatesideAussie, No mate, that just communist propaganda that your government is spreading through the state-manipulated media! We won both tests 4 points to nil!
(yes, I do know how the game is scored)
@smartalex lol,no but i did say that you phone the police to report it,give them all the information and leave then they send a truck to pick it up.
wayne, I bet his jaw hit the floor. He was thinking that Canada must be pretty wild.
Knock over a granny, no big deal, send the meat-wagon around in the morning!
I’m thinking of Jim Carrey in The Mask, just before he does the wolf whistle in the bar.
His eyes popping out and jaw dropping to the table! Brilliant!
smartalex/wayne … do you guys ever see Top Gear? I am thinking of the episode when they each had to buy a car in Miami with no more than $500 to spend each and drive it to New Orleans and undergo a series of dares along the way. smartalex’s post reminded me of the bit where one of them went looking for food and came back with a dead cow strapped to the roof. fucking hilarious. though if you haven’t seen it, i guess you won’t know!
Statesideaussie – i’ve never seen Top Gear, but a lot of people rave about it. Jeremy Clarkson is apparently legendary! I’ll get a boxset and have a look.
smartalex … i don’t know which season it was! i can probably find out on wikipedia. I wonder if it’s on youtube. I don’t watch the show “religiously” but that episode was one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. The whole episode is brilliant. I don’t want to give too much away though…
smartalex … series 9, episode 3. I found bits of it on youtube, not sure if it is all there or not.
StatesideAussie, I’ve found it! Series 9 Episode 3 US trip: roadkill
“Our American adventurers are faced with the prospect of eating a barbecued squirrel after being told they can only eat roadkill, until Clarkson finds a cow.”
I will definitely get it and watch it! There are rave reviews, some I noticed called it the best episode ever.
With that, I’m outta here. It’s 5 am, and I’ve got a lot to do tomorrow (today, actually)
Much enjoyed! Get back in shape, the Wallabies will need all the help they can get.
wayne – drive safe!
Got it! Cheers for the chats!
Good morning all!
Stateside – gotta disagree with you about The Final Cut. It’s the floyd album I like the least. My favourites are Atom Heart Mother and of course, Dark Side of the Moon Side B of The Wall plain sppoks me out…but my personal music god is Jim Morrison….at one point in my time I was heavily influenced reading his biography, and had some pretty crazy, surreal experiences listening to The Doors…
@Stateside Aussie, I live in California, where about do you live?
Jeet … Oh, I like The Doors. Well, I guess I do. Got 30 albums, anyway (including collections and bootlegs etc). I like a lot of stuff. I have 84 Frank Zappa albums, which is not quite the lot. Tom Waits. Leon Redbone. AC/DC. Alex Harvey. Adrian Belew. It’s all good. And nearly all wierd in some way or other! Cheers pal.
Bad Wolf — in Sacramento. Or an outlying part of it, anyway. And you?
Anyway, gotta crash. See you guys tomorrow.
Stateside Aussie- Simi Valley (Ventura County)
Good morning all
I see Louis Saha is taking the piss out of the gunners already
he’s posted on his twitter, “3 days and Fabregas s got is Trophy.”
Ha. Quality!
Jeet – Jim Morrison? Sure that was a blast. I’m not a big fan of the doors.
StatesideAussie/Wayne/smartalex
Great discussion lads!
If I get a season ticket out of forking out money for some shares, why not? Can’t wait for more news here in S’pore on how the float works. I think getting actual shares beat wearing the AON shirt.
Bad Wolf … that’s quite a ways from here!
willierednut – It was indeed!
Zappa the musicians, musicians.
I can not play any instruments but I free form rap with my musician friends and have for 35 years. 14 years ago they had me come up on stage and I have had fun doing it ever since. All a stream of consciousness.
Many have said I remind them of Tom Waits, I love live music and Dubuque Iowa is great for venues for our local musicians.
Balaji Sivaraman said:
“Can somebody explain to me why people seem to think fan-based ownership is good for the club? The mere idea is giving me jitters. I mean, do you honestly think a large fanbase with controlling stake in the club is a good idea. I think it is absolute bollocks. Business control of a football club as with any other business entity should remain with a single person (more commonly known as CEO) and an over-seeing group of people (more commonly known as Board of Directors).”
Yeah, because let’s face it… fan ownership has done a world of bad to Barcelona hasn’t it? You might know Barca… the ones who have given us TWO footballing lessons now, forcing our players to look on forlornly while they walk away with the European cup, basically handing our arses to us on a plate, while being widely regarded as the best club side… like, um… EVER. Yes, the fan ownership model has been disastrous for them, you numpty!
TalkSh@Te taking the piss……..again
http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/2011-08-19/born-again-christian-man-united-fan-terry-christian-switches-allegiance-man-city?
Legend-11 … didn’t see your post earlier and not sure if you are still looking at this thread.
You offer Barcelona as an example of how fan-based models can work. But in doing so, you are being highly selective with your facts and how you correlate them. Are you really suggesting that under any other ownership/management model, Barcelona would have been an ordinary team (in football terms), or anyhow less successful? On what basis do you make that claim? You are claiming cause (fan-based ownership) and effect (stunning football). OK. Prove it. And just in case you’re tempted: no, you can’t use the example of Barcelona as the proof. You are saying FCB have been successful (in football terms) because they are fan-owned. I am asking you to prove that what FCB have achieved in football terms could not possibly have been achieved under a different ownership model.
But there is more to this. A lot of United fans have bitched about the Glazers and the debt. (I wonder if you are one of them?) But compared to FCB, we are rank amateurs in the creative accounting department.
A year ago, FCB’s own independent auditors, Deloitte, examined the books and declared the club insolvent. As you may know, ‘insolvency’ and ‘bankruptcy’ are basically the same thing: one is how accountants say ‘you’re broke’, the other is how lawyers say it. So when your auditors say you’re insolvent, it is no mere technicality. FCB’s debts at that time represented a whopping 58% of the club’s entire value — not its revenue, its value. (If our debts stood at 58% of market value, we would have debts well over 1 billion.)
In fact, FCB were so broke, they couldn’t afford to pay their own players. So they went cap-in-hand to a bank and borrowed 150 million. (It gives some insight as to the strength of their connections, that they could borrow that much having already been declared insolvent.) In the year since then, while winning yet another Euro Double, FCB have lost a further 80 million.
FCB right now are the best football team in the business. But they are financially fucked, being propped up by powerful friends in business and government. They have the highest average player salary of any team in any sport in the world — in US dollars, the average player salary at FCB is $152,130 a week.
And I haven’t gotten to the politics yet. Pep Guardiola is a brilliant coach. He’s also a very smart man who knows the club inside out, having been there since his early teens. And, of course, he has been amazingly successful. Yet he is all too aware of how painful the politics at Barcelona can be. The problem is that, being fan-owned, the club’s officials (his bosses) have to be elected, and that of course opens the whole process to lies, stupid promises, in-fighting — all the shit that goes with the horrible business of politics wherever it is practised and the stakes are high. So what does he do? He signs one-year contracts. At the end of each season, he sniffs the political winds, and then decides if he wants to sign on for another year. It is the only way he can keep himself “clean” and free of political pressure — continued success on the field in combination with the constant threat to simply walk away at the end of any season if they so much as fuck with him or his team.
So there you have it, a run-down of Barcelona under this fan-owned model that you like so much: fantastically successful on the field, financially fucked, riddled with politics and unable to get their great coach to sign any contract longer than a year.
Legend – Barca couldnt pay their fucking wages a few weeks back and also have huge debt. As stateside has put better than me, their onfield success has fuck all to do with being fan owned. Its to do with a pool of players that have been top drawer through the academy. What a very short sighted view pal.
Stateside – Great post mate.
some smart people here on RoM.
The Manchester United Supporters Trust have created a new campaign to attack the club’s American owners, using United legend, George Best. Taking inspiration from WWII recruitment posters, it features Best with the words: “United Needs You” and “The only thing we want to lose this season is the debt.”
http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-media-news/north-west-marketing-services/must-uses-george-best-to-tackle-glazers-20110824100955231