Questions have been raised as to whether Arsene Wenger is disrespecting the League Cup by fielding a team of youngsters. As I have argued, based on the wise words of Sir Matt Busby, if they’re good enough, they’re old enough. Their 3-0 win over Premiership wide Wigan certainly suggests they’re more than good enough to compete and any disagreement probably arises from bitterness. I’m sure Ray Wilkins wish he’d kept his gob shut anyway!
However, comparisons have begun to form between Arsenal’s current crop of youngsters and the kids United brought through in the mid-90s.
Bruce, who was embarrassed by the Arsenal teenagers, doubts that they will be able to replicate the success of our youngsters over ten years ago.
“I was fortunate to see all those lads come through at United, and whether they can be as good as them, and have as much success that they have had, you would have to doubt it,” said Bruce. “But they are an outstanding young team with unbelievably talented players, and we’ll see. They get an unbelievable grounding under Arsene Wenger and for him to say that this crop is his best ever – that is some statement. Arsenal had a batch two or three years ago who are also all doing well, but whether they’re going to do as well as the likes of Beckham and Scholes – it’ll be a hard act to follow.”
Arsenal’s problem, which is more pressing than whether they can achieve all that United’s youth team players did, is whether they can keep their young players once they’ve developed them sufficiently.
In the first season David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt and the Nevilles broke in to the first team, they won the Premiership and FA Cup. Arsenal have seen the likes of Gael Clichy, Cesc Fabregas, Mathieu Flamini (before he left), Denilson and Diaby get in to the first team, yet haven’t won anything for three years. With Flamini jumping ship in the summer, it wouldn’t be too surprising to see Fabregas follow him out of the exit towards Barcelona.
Our kids went on to achieve great success, winning the Treble in their third season in the first team, a feat no other English team has achieved. To imagine Arsenal’s young players doing the same, or any other club’s for that matter, seems rather far-fetched.
Our kids were a one off, so I’ll have to side with Brucey on this one!
“However, comparisons have begun to form between Arsenal’s current crop of youngsters and the kids United brought through in the mid-90″s.
Its only you lot that write blogs and silly ex players that make the comparison. At the moment there is nothing to compare they have only played two games together.
Same old story “they haven’t won anything for 3 years. Where were Utd when you hadn’t won anything for a darn sight longer!
Sorry this is not one of your better stories in fact its really pointless.
Totally agree, and to do what we did in 1996 after raking in 14m from the sales of Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis the previous summer makes that achievement all the more amazing. A one off, no question.
One major difference, there were no billionaires when Utd’s kids came through and therefore very little competition on the domestic front at least. Therefore you have to think it is extremely unlikely.
But if these kids can go on and become the cornerstone of our team for years to come and pick up a few trophies along the way that’ll do.
problem i see with asnl is they run the risk of having young players that are good enough to achieve success but if asnl continue to finish season after season without a trophy their best players will leave – and most will go without really reaching their peak. with united we were always winning things and our kids bleeded the red of united, at asnl they havent really tasted victory in the form of cups and will look else where to get them.
as you said our kids were a one off and while wenger will try and emulate it i doubt he will be as successful at it then SAF
But the united kids had 5 or 6 established players playing alongside them bruce palister shmeichael cantona etc. The arsenal are all kids with players like adebayor (23) acting as one of the senior players. Those boys that came through at united were undoubtedly class though.
As TopGunPires says, when Utd’s youngsters came through there were no billionaires. It was like any other team in the past that would get a few good players coming through, that’s how the league was won by various teams, because of the players coming through the ranks.
Now, whichever teams happened to be good during the time when money was starting to have a big influence, have remained good because they can just buy better players when the older stars are waning. So it’s harder for teams to keep their best players, they’re all bought by the big teams before they can do anything towards the club that produced them.
Anw, the point is that Utd youngsters didn’t have Chelsea-like teams to compete with. So is is pretty much impossible for these youngsters to emulate them.
I agreed.
Fergie Fledgings is really a one-off and extremely dificult to emulate.
Fergie Fledgings is also the benchmark for other teams to follow.
But one thing that really set them off is a catalyst called Eric Cantona.
After winning the Division onen Title, it is baffling as to why Wilkinson sold Erci to ferguson for a handsome sum of 1-mil???
scholes, becks, giggs were playing during a time where youngsters could be brought into the system gradually , nw the epl has got so competitive with the mega bucks, there hardly sems to be a margin for error, same thing is happening to our youngsters, if it was like the old times, likes of rossi would be still playing for us and the current crop of youngsters would have got enuf first hand exp, u need result faster these days, a kid from the reserves needs to make a major impact in the first 3-4 games itself to hold on to a first team place
Man Utd are THE BEST NOONE COMES CLOSE!!! WE ARE BESTEST CLUB IN THE WHOLE WORLD AND NOONE CAN EVER EVER ACHIEVE WHAT WE HAVE DONE!!!! WE HAVE THE BEST YOUTH COAGH AND MANAGER AND STAFF AND PITCH AND MASCOT AND STADIUM AND HISTORY AND FANS AND PALYERS AND IN MY HOME COUNRTY OF WIZBECTIZIJANSTAN WE ALL LOVE MAN YITED FOREVER AND WE ARE LOVE!!! MAN LOVE
the united youngster’s were up against blacknurn, newcastle and liverpool spending the money as well as chelsea offering big wages to attract big european names, the only difference is that the price has inflated so saying that billionaires make it harder is bollocks, teams bought in players then just like they do now but it is how you play like a team. Arsenal went to the death last year without spending much so do billionaires make much difference???
in terms of acheivements maybe they wont copy the man utd bunch but inn terms of skill and technique they are as good if not better than some of the man utd youth of the past. wilshere ramsey, walcott and fabregas are as good if not better than scholes, becks and butt. but like i said whether they acheive they same is very slim. The current crop are def technically the best the club have ever had,
That team was good but you had older players to help them through. If they had to play just players in the same age range as ours Arsenals kids must edge it. And the style is as good as our first team, and they are the most watchable team in England. And as has been mentioned it was in a far less competitive environment, not even Chelsea’s money can dominate in that fashion because of the difficulty of the league and cups.
I think this Arsenal side is a testament to the club, lets face it UTD will never do that again if they could you would not spend as much as you do. COME ON THE GUNNERS
I think the Wigan result was a bit of a fluke. Unable to find the United game on Tuesday I ended up watching Arsenal/Wigan because I like watching Palacios, Zaki, and Ze Ridder. Anyways, Wigan honestly looked to have control of the match and both Arsenal goals, to make the game 2-0 and 3-0, were against the run of play. Palacios made the Arsenal midfield look very ordinary. Although the Arsenal goals were quality, they didn’t dominate the match, so I think it is too early to dub these young gunners as first-teamers. I think the United League Cup side from Tuesday would BATTER this Arsenal side.
If these kids stay under Wenger’s wing long enough, they’ll be the best team of all time, these kids have zero experience but they thumped teams that have so much expeience like Wigan, thats really incredable fo a team with an average age of 19. ManU’s young stars of the 90’s were great but they had senior players with a lot of experience leading the way. Anyway i think its unfair to compare the 2 b/c they came from different times, the epl is far more competitive that it was 10 years ago.
Man U kids were great, and Arsenal won’t win a treble. But United’s kids had a lot of luck with them as well. Even accounting for ‘making one’s own luck’ and intimidating the opposition with your reputation, which Fergie does very, very well, I’d have to say that comparing talent is easier than comparing success b/c there are too many variables with success – the margins are very fine and don’t depend always on skill — look at Arsenal’s penalties against Liverpool last season, or winning the Champion’s League on penalties, for that matter. Look at Bayern Munich hitting the woodwork rather than the goal that would have put the nail in the coffin of United’s treble hopes.
Nutshell: let’s compare on paper Vela to Beckham, Fabregas to Scholes, Wilshere to Giggs and Ramsey to Phil Neville, but see me in three years time cuz it’s too early to tell where the young gunners will be talent-wise until then. But it is looking to be a close call.
How can you say these arsenal players are great!!! listen comeback in 10 years time then tell us. But for now shut!!! up!!!
i cant believe people are saying that the EPL 10 years ago wasnt competive, how can this be when we had years where newcastle, aston villa, norwich city, blackburn all challenging for the top spot. if anything the competition has died down to 4 teams – and realistically only 2.
All I hear from you Gooners are “if this”, “if that”, “they spend this”, “you spend that”. You sound like you are happy getting 3rd places as long as you play a young team and don´t spend “obscene” amounts of money as you like to call it (and conveniently never mention the sometimes ridiculous money you pay for youngsters, considering their age). Who are you trying to kid??
The freak of nature youth team that came through for utd all those years ago were mixed with experienced players in the utd team/ squad. Arsenal don’t have as many experienced players and place far more pressure on their younger players. Making comparisons now is futile. But there is no doubt that Utd’s early sucesses were helped by a lack of competetion in the league and anyone who thinks the Utd team of the mid 1990s would even finish in the top four now is just kidding themselves. Billionaires do make a difference- the quality of players has increased- when utd were dominated the 1990s the best league in europe was in italy or spain. Now the premier league is top dog- cos there’s more money on offer. Fuglis- if you think Ferguson would have won 50% of what he has won on Arsene Wengers budget you are nuts. But then football is about winning and not balancing budgets….
Fergie didn’t nurture those kids from a young age though he inherited them so let’s just get that straight……..
Gerry Gooner – you conveniently fail to mention that Fergie didn´t take over a rich club. So the implied “Fergie has bought success” bullshit that you gooners buy into is just that- bullshit. And though United spend a fair amount of money nowadays, they also sell for a considerable amount every year. Still, my point is that you guys hide yourself behind this “we don´t spend money so it is ok that we don´t win” truism. And do you think we buy into that? You´d rather finish third with your “cheap” kids (like theo)?
TRE you must have watched a different game mate,your comments about wigan controlling the game are rubbish,as are the comments about the prem being weaker when uniteds kids came through,its a different game now,arsenal need experienced winners to guide these young players and show them how to win,that could be the difference! the only way to see if these young players are good enough is to place them with winneres an see if they can win something then continue to win when the they eventually become the older players in the team!
man utd are 750 mill in debt though so their still not cash rich Fuglis, fergie dont mind spending money he doesnt have!
really?
beckham, neville, and scholes broke into the first team about 10 years after he arrived, so how did he not nuture them. his best example of nuturing his players is ryan giggs, he went to ryan’s house to persuade him to play for united when giggs was 14, since then look what giggs has become when he broke into the first team at 17. when wenger arrived he inherited a pretty solid team as well and only added petit, viera, overmars and anelka to win his first title. whilst sir alex pretty much built his whole first team that won the title in 93. he brought in schmeichel, bruce, pallister, cantona, ince, kanchelskis, brought back mark hughes, parker, brought giggs through the academy, and a lot more. there was really only two that stayed on; bryan robson and brian mcclair.
The United youngsters who all came through together in the ’90s (under Fergie it should be added — he’d already been manager for nearly a decade) may well prove to be a one-off. It’s simply too early to say with this Arsenal lot, though the fact that Djourou, Vela, Wilshere, Song, Fabianski and Ramsey are all in the first-team squad suggests they will make the grade. Whether that will be at Arsenal or another club remains to be seen, though many of us Gooners will hope we hang on to Vela, Wilshere and Ramsey at least — they all look a bit special. I have to take issue with Tre’s comment that the win over Wigan was “a bit of a fluke”, though. Think he must have been watching the match through red-coloured glasses. We thoroughly flogged them! And to Fuglis who thinks Arsenal spend “ridiculous” money on kids, how much did United shell out for Rooney, Nani and Anderson, to name just three recent young buys?
It is obvious reading this thread that most of the people that have so far contributed to it were born in the 80s and 90s so I would disregard most of the silly comments. These current Arsenal players will not be compared to what your lot did in the 90s. That is your history and not ours. The comparison will be made with our own batch of kids who came through in the late 80s to win the title at Anfield in 89 and fired the first two shots (they won title again in 91) to help bring down the Scouse machine before your lot destroyed it. So enough of this talk about comparing them with your lot. We have our own legends to compare them with. The likes of Adams, Keown, Rocky, Thomas, Merson, Davis, Quinn, Hayes and a few more that I have forgotten about.
We are The Arsenal.
I would pretty much like to beg a differ. There is without a doubts, Man Utd crops of youth in thepast is superb and class among the rest. But I would say, it might not make them better then the current crop of youngster arsenal is producing.
There is this saying, “Born with talent but born at the wrong era of time”.
The EPL current situation is so much different as compared to the past.
The only real contender to the title when Beckham and companies broke into first team are just Liverpool and Arsenal. Probably you can include newcastle…….
But look at EPL now. Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City….Probably Spurs and Aston Villa, Lokk at their squad.
If youth system is enough to help team win title, why isn’t SAF bringing in more youngster from the team academy. Situation now has become challenging and there are little room for mistake. At current situation, among the top 4, Arsenal is the only team that refuse to spent big and depend on its youth system to bring success to the club.
Firstly wilkinson sold cantana to unt because,he was having an affair with lesley ash who was married to he’s teammate lee chapman.Secondly i don’t want to sound negative about the amazing crop of young kid’s man u produced in that era giggs beckham scholes sharp red nev g nev to name a few but you also had plenty of establised players playing alongside them.Cantana schiemicle steve bruce macalister sharpe kanchelkis you get my drift.if we were to have a mere snippet of that success,would make our achievement a great one.i don’t want to hate but check out the average age of those unt teams.i’ve been watching and playing footy since i was seven 1985 since then i’ve seen unted get alot of key discisions go there way match winning ones,but at other times make their onw luck!
I also played for the same team as becks in east london Ridgeway rangers,one of the best young teams in the country,playing in one of the highest youth leagues in the country,don’t agree check it out,becks was lobbing goalkeepers’s when he was 7″ he was a talent long before fergie clapped eyes on him.i will go as far as saying this is the case with most young players that other clubs try and take the credit for!
In terms of talent the arsenal kids could edge United’s Kids. The challenge is that the league is too competetive you need more than just talent to be champions. Italy had the best collection of players in the 80’s and early 90’s but it had to be one champion at the time.
Whatever anyone says, the EPL was NOT competitive. United won games by 9-0 margins in a regular basis. Is that competitive? Do you really think Beckham, Neville, etc. would win games by such margins today? It’s not as if they have not been playing football against current talent and teams for the last 5 years. We have seen them play against Essien, Ronaldo, Fabregas, etc. and no doubt players like Scholes and Giggs are quality. But there is no way they would have the same success against today’s Chelsea, Villa, West Ham, Pompey or even Hull City. To say that would suggest that teh current Man U team is inferior to the previous one and that’s nonsense. There’s no way a team with Berba, Teves, Nani, Ronaldo, Vidic, Rio could be inferior to a team with Keane, Scholes, Giggs, etc. Today’s EPL players are international class whereas back then it was mostly EPL class. Big difference.
49 unbeaten – ‘Fergie didn’t nurture those kids from a young age though he inherited them so let’s just get that straight……..’ What a stupid fucking comment that is.
gee – ‘wilshere ramsey, walcott and fabregas are as good if not better than scholes, becks and butt.’ An equally stupid fucking comment.
What is it with you stupid gooner cunts constantly talking about the money that we spend to achieve success? In the summer of 1995 we sold £14m worth of talent, didn’t spend a single penny of that, bought our kids into the first team from the youth set up – 5 of them all LOCAL lads – and still won the DOUBLE in 1996, and that same group of players were instrumental in winning the TREBLE in 1999, something I have mentioned a few times before, but something you ignorant gooner cunts fail to understand. Most of the youth players you had playing on Tuesday night had nominal sums spent on them, most notably Aarron Ramsey at £5m. You cannot make comparisons with our achievements and your pipe dreams. You Arsenal fans are the most blinkered, ignorant and the most nonsensical set of supporters I have ever known – caught up in your own self importance.
Arsenaltilidie – who the fuck is macalister?
i guess he combined pallister and mcclair.
Tre thinks it was a fluke. Well why dont you have a look at the results our young players have got over the past 4 or 5 years in the Carling Cup. And to say Wigan dominated just shows that you are inept when it comes to giving any credit, Palacios outshone our midfield??? Jack Wilshere outshone their entire midfield!
Just because you hate Arsenal because we’re one of your bigger rivals, try and give credit where credit is due.
TopGunPires, it is all well and good having good prospects, but you have won fuck all for three seasons, simple fact.
The real difference is that the Fergies Fledglings proved themselves to be …. successful…. household names… and committed to us…. and the main thing is that they were all home grown talent…
I dont like to say this.. but yeh… the arsenal set of kids that played against wigan did look very good… i cant really say any different…
But there is a difference between very good… and SPECIAL… and thats what Fergies Fledglings were.
of course it’d be practically impossible to top Utd’s class of 92.
Giggs
Neville brothers
Beckham
Scholes
Butt
Treble winners – unique achievement.
Giggs is the most decorated player in English football history. With the rest not too far behind.
they’d be better off comparing Arsenal youngsters to our current youngsters who aren’t looking too bad either.
Da Silva twins, Possebon, Evans – all look like dead certs to make it.
Mild question marks over Campbell, Brandy, Wellbeck – but only because they have £90m worth of talent in front of them, for anyone to come from the academy into that group they’d have to be a teenage genius like Messi. I’m sure they’ll all have good careers and Wellbeck seems to have a good chance here.
They’re a good bunch but I feel that they won’t be able to hold onto any of them
We haven’t won anything for 3 years? What has that got to do with the blog?
You said, “Well why dont you have a look at the results our young players have got over the past 4 or 5 years in the Carling Cup”
But those youngsters have not taken the club any further regards to winning anything, with the fledglings we won trophies.
Tre Said are u crazy?!-i think u have not watched arsenal v wigan.arsenal not just dominated the game but was playing for fun against a premier league club.the goals came to fast to good.u have not seen arsenal chances i think.how many chances did they have(wigan)no chances.i think u should watch it again.
topgunpires- and all other arse mugs.
you keep drooling over kids and were gonna start worrying about u lot as well as ur paedo manager and backroom(or door;) staff.
not winning anything for three years has a lot to do with this blog actually, as one of the main reasons uv won nothing is……..you guessed it, too many kids who are over rated!
those gooners that say our kids that won lots had good experienced players around them, yes, ur right, and thats because our manager is one of the best theres ever been or will be. so, whats that saying about arsene? that hes good but not fergie good?
p.s. and dont give me that bullshit about fergie bought success. the guys won things before he came to old trafford u know. do a bit of research and you might be surprised at what hes actually won with less fashionable and certainly not rich teams!
Of course fergie has bought the league..Rooney,Tevez(when u buy him),Berbatov,Nani,hargreaves,Rio,All would be record signings for Arsenal..thats 6 players
Bossdem, you bring shame upon the great club that you support.
TopGunPires, stop talking absolute crap. ‘You bring shame on upon the great club that you support’??? Fuck off…
Maybe none of you were listening when Fergie called for the ridiculous paedo taunts to stop.
It lacks class that a club like Man U is supposed to have.
Will someone set up an Arsenal blog for these Gooner twats to hang around and bitch on? Cause they annoy the fuck out of me…
Raj Jalota, were Bergkamp, Pires, Lungberg, Wiltord, Henry, Veira, Giberto Silva ect free when you last won the league if you can remember that far back?
TopGunPires , were the jibes aimed at Fergie last season by your fans, classy?
arsenal have plenty of senior players in their first team squad now. Almunia 31, gallas 31, silvestre 31/2, toure 26, eboue 25, rosicky 25+, van rapist 25, okay not totally old but will be the senior heads when these come through in 2 years.
The difference though is united got all their players as kids. Arsenal have bought in song, denilson, diaby, fabregas, ramsey, vela as they were 16 or over. Fabregas and vela are pretty experienced now in terms of games as fabregas has always been in first team and vela’s spent the last 2 years in spain. United’s lads were thrown straight into the deepend. The average age of the trebble team was around 25
You’re very angry, very confrontational.
I’d have thought you’d still be happy from last season’s triumphs???
The differenece between Uniteds youngsters and Arsenals is this
Uniteds are local talent, Arsenals are foreign (Aside from Wilshere and Simpson). Arsenal have bought all their youngsters, United brought ours through the youth system.
A youth system is local talent, not a dream team of players under 17
You Mancs are obviously worried or you wouldnt have to descend to foul language and personal insults.
Only time will tell but all I can say is the Young Guns are a joy to watch and are sure to make Arsenal contenders for the next generation. Whether the trophies will follow? We all know that eventually comes down to a good slice of lady luck as well.
The Manc Jrs are also looking good so lets all concentrate in pushing the chavs out of the frame and sending the Pool home crying over past glories. We can all agree that the future is at least red!!
We have Randall, Gibbs, Gavin Hoyte, Henri Lansbury – all are local.
@SteRDLK
Have you seen how many gunners are in the various England youth squads lately. Its out of date to suggest we are any more foreign than anyone else in the prem. Pool played all 11 foreigners in the CC, but noone said a word about it.
Good point nicynickynickynicky… I am obviously very worried of your youngsters because I said a bad word, how fucking dare I???
There were no personal insults in there either, just a general one covering the Gooner nation, or at least the many Gooners that frequent this site to bitch and moan.
The reason no one really cares too much at how fantastic your kids are in the Carling Cup (every year these days) is because we’ve seen it for the last couple of seasons. Ye play great football in the Cup and that these young lads are the next best things, yet when your first teamers get injured or suspended, ye have no one to bring in, and ye have a very thin senior squad.
Yeah ye play decent stuff in a Cup that no one cares about, but would you really send those kids to Old Trafford, Anfield or Stamford Bridge at the business end of the season when you’re fighting for the league? They’d be kicked off the park, cause its a mans game, and thats where ye keep falling down.
i’m a gooner, i respect that team of kids of uniteds. our young team now is quality, just watch them if u get a chance, i prefer watching them to our senior players. no comparisons cos arsenals young team is modelled on fergie fledglings anyway, wenger said so once.
Don’t forget that Robbie savage is part of that crop, I’m sure he played in the infamous youth cup final for us.
Anyway its all irrelevant, the best kids will leave to play for bigger teams, you’ll get not much money for them and you wont win anything with the ones who don’t go. Flamini and Hleb were probably your best performers last season, none counting fabregas who doesnt look as good without them. They didn’t go for anything like their true values and the fact the flamini chose to miss out on a season of champs league speaks volumes.
It seems arsenal are fast becoming a feeder club for the big European teams. Go to arsenal, under Wenger, who is no doubt very good at promoting young talent. Then with arsenal/Wenger on your CV go an play for a proper club and earn real money winning things.
There all too skinny to be any hack in the premiership anyway.
Nice style of football though.
nicky, no one cares about liverpool. they just shite all round.
also like people have said, we can’t compare the two. United kids were thrown in at the deep end, Arsenal’s team havent done anything yet.
ps. vela looks scary.
TopgunPires …. dont know why you are getting upset about Arehole Wangers taunting…. you just have to check the signings he has made over the years ….if you are black, slim & young Arse-nal are after you…. now I’m not asking anyone to think that Arse-nal are a team of fags but…….
have you heard that to support the Gooners you gotta be able to take it up the ‘arris…..lol
hey Scotty cant you block them Gooning twats off here ….or is it more fun totake the proverbial out of the sad twats
after seeing the result today how can arsenal fans be really happy? Fair enough building for tomorrow but they fill their ground week in week out yet are out spent by the majority of the league. The arsenal fans have to ask where their money is going? Arsenal are still pretty tight on wages even though big wages are within their limits. Granted they have the stadium to pay off, and their directors are saying money is available. I just can’t understand you being happy watching your team slump away from it’s rivals when their is money there to keep you challenging. Oh well better chance of us winning something