Rich, of Penguin United, has mused over Carlos Tevez’s future.
Carlos Tevez has to go, it’s as simple as that. For all the chants of “Fergie, sign him up”, for all the protestations of love for United, for all the good and crucial goals he has scored, for all the gut-busting charges around the Old Trafford pitch – he has to go. The fans should not only request it, but demand it.
There are two clear reasons for this. Firstly, he is not and never will be good enough to be in United’s first eleven, for reasons I will explain below. Second, he will never be happy being a squad player. Take both of these together, and Kia Joorobchian’s £32m valuation – the most frequently cited reason for United’s reluctance to sign him up – becomes irrelevant.
Not first team material
Let me deal with my more controversial point first. Tevez is a jack-of-all-trades, but he will never be good enough in any single position to hold down a spot in our best eleven. He is a (very) rich man’s John O’Shea, and a poor man’s Wayne Rooney. He is a very good player, but not a world class player.
Up top
He has proved beyond doubt, again and again that he cannot lead the line. There are two fundamental reasons for this. Firstly, he does not have the pace to get in behind any defence. Watch for balls slipped between defenders for him – he will rarely get there first, and when he does it will only be because he has put his body between man and ball in such a way that he has to turn backwards to retain possession. Second, he does not find space between and in behind defenders to receive the ball – he tends to find space in front of defenders by pulling off them to receive the ball, but too often his relish for physical combat allows defenders to stay “touch-tight” to him. This rules out a whole dimension of danger for the opposition, and makes their job a lot easier when it comes to snuffing out our attacking threat.
Contrast this to Rooney when he is asked to play up top (as with Tevez, not his favoured role). He can do everything Tevez does in that position, but he can get in behind and he can pull defenders around in a way that disorientates good defences and creates space for others. When a ball is played in behind for Rooney, he often gets there first and is able to play his first touch across the defender in such a way that the defender is taken out of play unless he decides to being Rooney down. He is also better at finding the gaps between centre halfs to receive threaded passes from the likes of Carrick, Scholes and Giggs. The threat of his pace and his elusiveness make him an entirely different proposition to defend against.
With Berbatov and Rooney
This lack of ability to play up top is precisely why Tevez has been starved of opportunities to partner Berbatov this season. Berba is not an out and out front man, constantly on the last shoulder – he sometimes plays up with the centre halves, and sometimes drops off. When Berba plays with Rooney, they tend to alternate so that if Berba drops off Rooney is pushed further up and vice versa. With Tevez, on the other hand, if Berba drops off Tevez stays put in his natural habitat, leaving us to rely on the wingers or the midfield to push into the centre forward position. Rooney has a lot of similarities with both Berba and Tevez, but he works best with Berba because they can mix and match their roles at will. When either plays with Tevez, they lose that flexibility and therefore their natural game is curtailed.
In the hole
Even when dropped deep, Tevez suffers in comparison to Rooney. They can both shoot well from distance, they can both arrive late into the box, they both participate well in cute passing moves in and around the opposition box. But again, Tevez lacks two aspects of the game that can turn a good “support striker” (if you’ll forgive the use of such an un-English term) into a world class one. First, the ability to create your own space by beating people – whilst Tevez is capable of beating a man, his lack of pace means that his man (particularly full-backs) can catch up with him again. Second, the instinctive distribution which can split or stretch a defence – you don’t see Tevez playing through balls or cross-field passes, but rather taking a couple of touches and laying it into the path of a supporting runner. In counter-attacking situations, he doesn’t get rid of the ball quickly enough, and doesn’t make up for that with the perceptiveness of his pass.
A team player, but not a squad player
Taking into account all of the above, you’re left with a player whose ceiling is “very good” rather than “world class”. We’d still be happy to have him in our squad, because he rarely turns in a bad performance (just rarely great ones). He has the ability to score crucial goals, and his energy can have a very positive effect on the whole side when he comes off the bench. Earlier in the season, the debate was about whether he was worth the amount of money being asked for him. My own view was that he wasn’t (the above analysis of his play is not something I’ve come up with in the last couple of days, but one based on observations from the whole season – particularly the early part when we really needed him to step up), but I could understand why some people took the opposite view.
What has become increasingly clear, in the last few weeks, is that he is not happy being a reserve. He is not prepared to make the trade off which so many recent United stars (Ole, Sheringham, Fletcher, O’Shea, Brown, Park to name but a few) were prepared to make – not playing every week in exchange for being part of the best club in the world and the accompanying silverware. That’s his call, and I don’t criticise him for it, and nor do I imply in any way that he hasn’t given it 100% every time he has stepped on the pitch for us. But if that’s how he feels, then his asking price is irrelevant because there is no place for him at United.
Looking back on it, I think that was the main reason for United not offering a deal until the end of the season – because they needed to know whether Tevez could be happy as a squad player. We got the answer, and so with our warmest thanks and best wishes, it has to be goodbye to Carlitos.
Man Utd News 24/7
Good read and spot on all accounts.
Excellent analysis. Add to it the fact that he has repeatedly stated he wants to maximize his earnings in his next contract and return to Buenos Aires to play with Boca Juniors in a few years’ time. No “return on investment”.
so well put theres not much left to say!
Denton. Well said on that bit no one ever seems to remember about Boca Juniors.
Perfectly put Scott….
I said something along those lines a few months ago and got a few “questionable” responses……
Too many people are blinded by a good player who runs his bollocks off….. without realising that for 32 million there are better players than Carlos available…….
His pace and finishing are my big issues…….
Completely agree – as much as I love his work for the team he simply isnt good enough for his price nor a spot in starting 11. With exciting attackers coming through our own ranks Id much rather have the club save the money theyd spend on Tevez for future transfer/reducing the debt/whatever.
He’s a great squad player and a very honest player too, his effort is second to none (well maybe Park), he’s got a good shot on him too and some end product (unlike Park though), i’ll be very sad to see him leave especially as his 2 seasons with us has near enough produced a WCC, an EPL, a CL, a Carling cup trophy with another EPL and CL trophy winnable, not saying it’s all down to him but he’s certainly helped us win them with very very crucial goals. If he does leave, we need another striker, no two ways about it.
Rubbish. Tevez is a world class player, if he had a consistant run in the side he would prove that. It’s such a shame that after last season he had a full pre-season with us, was the one man making us tick in our pre-season games and then he got dropped for Berbatov without ever doing anything wrong. I’m sure we’ll let him go but I think we’ll probbaly regret it. We will miss his fight, his ability to score last minute goals (we wouldn’t have won the league last season without him) and his overall abilty to create goalscoring chances for himself and those around him. He was instrumental in turing around our forunes in the Spurs game and he was one of the main reasons why we beat Arsenal in th CL. Berbatov for all his neat touches and his sporadic moments of class will go missing in big games. He lacks pace, fight, passion, everything Tevez has in abundance.
Nice post, Rich. Would have to agree.
I’ve said it before about this saga – ‘in Fergie we trust’.
penguin always writes quality articles. another feather in his cap,
What United really need is the complete ‘lead the line’ striker. Someone in the mould of Torres / Drogba / Shearer – quick enough to challenge in behind, strong enough to lead the line and hold of a Centre half and clinical in front of goal.
Unfortunately, there are only a handful of players in the world that are like this – I cant really think of any better than Torres and Drogba.
Since the signing of Tevez and then Berbatov, we’ve been making do with what’s available.
We now have 3 strikers who want to play in the hole and are making do by letting them share the load of leading the line.
If we could get a proper ‘up top’ striker, then, whilst I love him, I’d agree Carlos is probably surplus to requirements.
The main problem with signing Carlos is the money – United are doing there usual brinksmanship style, let’s see if we can get the price down (or get somebody better)
And so they should!
The point no-one seems to have picked up on is – Carlos has always said he intends on going back to play for Boca Juniors when he is 28.
With this in mind, United would be mad to pay out £30 million for someone who is going to leave in four years, whilst in his prime and potentially on a free!!!
I hoping Fergie has a top class ‘lead the line’ striker in mind that he intends on going for this summer.
If not, then I hope we can get Carlos to stay at a more reasonable cost…
It’s very unfortunate that we have been put in this position.This article is right on a lot of things.Tevez for me deserves to wear the UNited shirt but not on this price tag.And Joorabchian will find out soon enough that only desperate teams like Tottenham and City will splash out this kind of money.
Kudos Denton Davey – you stole my thunder on the Boca Juniors thing:)
Absolutely spot on with your analysis. You also forgot to put in the fact that 80% of the times his first touch is awful. Either he skies the ball before taking a second touch to fully control the ball, or his touch takes the ball far away from him.
His irritating habit of collecting the ball with back-to-defender makes him a very easy target to mark. He almost does this every single time, taking the ball back towards the United goal, and then turning and looking to pass the ball to someone else. But without the speed and defense splitting awareness, he can rarely ever put in a ball through.
For all his energy and enthusiasm, he just doesn’t bring as much to the table as Berba or Rooney do, and that is why I do not believe Fergie should sign him. It would be a waste of money and we can easily get (if we want!) some other player, who will be happy to work through the ranks and not take a spot on the starting 11 for granted. Except for Ronny, Vidic and Ferdinand, who we almost always need on the field to give us that extra spark, almost everyone has been a squad player for some time and has had to prove to SAF that they deserve their place. Every time Fletch takes the field, I feel proud to see him play, because he was pretty much a peripheral figure some years ago. But look at him now, he rarely ever puts a step out of place, even though there are way more talented players on the squad.
Go on Carlitos, we can do without your whining for now.
The problem is who will replace him.At the moment,i don’t think that Welbeck,Macheda,Campbell or Manucho can be adequate back up for Rooney and Berba.They need more games so maybe some loan deals.There aren’t many world class strikers out there.
^^
Maybe true. But I reckon if Welbeck is given regular playing time, he can be a useful backup, so can Macheda.
A great read, but there is just one thing i disagree with. Why do a lot of people imply that Tevez isn’t quick? I mean seriously?
@ Irfan87
cos he isn’t quick……
I would say Park is in the not reallyworth his place category more so than Tevez, At least there is more chance of Tevez doing something on or off the ball unlike Park who does not read the game and Utd forward plays as well as he should. If he weren’t Korean he would have been shipped out long ago, his worth to Utd from Far East sales is phenominal, so on a Fiscal sense Tevez has to go unless his Agent reduces his asking price to £20M.
Sometimes football will lose out to the way the money men think and Gill is no different!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GymsV1LspgI
once again this is Emilys video to say goodbye to tevez
thanks for all you did
but i believe he’s gone
i believe he gave his all for united
but i believe thats there are better players outthere and some united can get there hands on
Blotto hand on my heart i think apart from rooney noone does more off the ball work than park
and i say apart from rooney but its tight between them
park does alot more than tevez off the ball
I agree that he has no place in our first team next season, but i think we are going to miss his hunts, where he pops up out of nowhere to win us a ball on the oppositions half.
I somehow agree with Saha Ha Ha.I like CT for his comittment and energy. SAF should keep him and also get Benzema to Utd.What a pair.We will then overtake Liverpool for League championships !!
I more or less agree but my concern would be who would we get to replace him? Welbeck, Campbell and Macheda are all good talents but hardly good enough to play for the first team yet in the event that Berbatov or Rooney get injured. Anyone else we would buy would probably cost in the £10-15m range and for the extra £7m (Carlitos would cost £22m extra given we’ve already paid £10m for him), we get a player whom we are assured of that fits in United’s system.
Are you people fucking nuts – dont you remember how good he and rooney performed last season, when everyone doubted them! – dont forget the kid hasnt been there long and has no opportunities this year to get some consistent form going.
This kid is all heart and is a pure United player – granted I would not pay 32 mil for him, but would have last year if he hadnt bought Berba.
This guy can lead the line with Rooney as last year showed they really started to develop a sick link where one would drop off and the other hold high – they swaped doing this and split teams in half – i.e. bolton
Dont be so fickle and short sighted fans – this guy is an asset!
One more thing.
Tell me who has performed better this year:
Tevez or Berba?
One word answers and be honest!
Wiggsman he is an asset.But United are cornered.Lose him or pay a price that he isn’t worth.That’s not a knock on him but he is not worth as much as Rooney.I really wish he ditched Joorabchian and did business with the club himself but that’s unlikely.Last year we had to go with Berbatov because we were with 2 fit strikers.The problem now is who are we going to get.
Both have perfomed well Wiggsman.We can’t compare them and i have been saying this since day one.They are different players.
Wiggsmanyou just said it yourself “granted I would not pay 32 mil for him”
case in point
and buyin berbatov gives united another world class option
Blotto:Did you read the article completely,because the simple reason why Park will stay and Tevez will leave is because Park and O’Shea and Brown and Fletcher and from the past,Ole and Teddy,all knew that they would’nt be first choice.Don’t give anyone that bullshit about selling shirts.Park is a quality player who knows he is not first choice and is willing to accept it,while Tevez is not.
I agree – i wouldnt pay 32 million, but the article up top just slates him as a player and basically says that he’s not a first teamer.
Now i have a couple of issues with this whole thing.
1. I think Tevez is a 1st teamer and has performed better that berba – simple fact more goals to starts. Lets not sugar coat what Berba has done this year which hasnt been a lot. I like him he is class – but got a lot more to prove than 2 seasons at Spurs
2. If…and I say If – what Tevez says is true about lask of dialouge on contract then its a disgrace. We should be working with him to achieve a deal that works for everyone. – Id pay 18 million for him if thats waht Robbie Keane goes for. Im sure he’d take less wages to stay at United!
ist teamer… really? first name on the team sheet in my opinion will always be Vidic and Ronaldo
The heart wants to cry hoarse and call Rich names. The brain, on the other hand, knows he is spot on in his analysis. I loved him once. As long as he is in a United jersey, I will still love him.
Even so, I suppose I guess it is time we bid Carlitos adieu.
@ wiggsman…Look at the no of assists Berba has had plus the fact that he has also scored 14 goals…you are basically undermining his contribution to enhance CT’s worth….For chrissake look at yesterdays game….Berba was world class….Tevez played well too …but Berba can give you so much….Sorry to say but for all his huffing and puffing Ct is not a patch on Berba…and next year when Berba has had a nice pre season behind him we will see more of him…
I dont condone his public comments, although I suspect he’s bit his tongue a few times. I just dont get why after he was by far our best player pre-season – by far the best. That he got obviously dumped out of the way for berba. I dont mean dropped to let others have a chance – Fergie basically said that Berba and Rooney were no 1 choice without giving Tevez a fair crack or allowing Berba to prove he was no 1 – thats a kick in the balls
If Liverpool sign Tevez, they are going to win the title next year. The same applies for Arsenal as well.
One of the main points in this article is that Tevez hasn’t got enough pace. But this just isn’t true. We’ve scored some great counter-attacking goals with him in the side (particularly last season) and even at the beginning of this season he ripped some defences apart with his pace.
Tevez is a match-winner, and we need as much match-winners in our squad as possible! Thank god he wants to stay!
Like Every player he wants to play in every game. But the differnce is that he’s just on loan. And sadly I get the feeling that the people surrounding him (Kia Joorabchian) just want to sell him on. They probably even told him that it would boost his chances of staying if he gave those interviews …
But hopefully no team will bid £30Mio for him … And then Kia Joorabchian will have to reduce the price tag and we’ll be able to buy him. I still think that we’re just gambling to get the right price.
invertedquestionmark – you really think Tevez makes that much difference? That without him we wouldn’t be looking like we were going to win the title this year? That we will have a gaping hope after he leaves and he will provide Arsenal with enough threat to win the title? Take them from 4th to 1st? Really?
He won’t sign for Liverpool because of Rafa’s tactics.
@ invertedquestionmark…wow man….imagine kuyt and tevez in the same team….You bet it would strike fear in the opposition defences…lol
I agree with Theboogeyman – this non-sense about Ji-Sung Park “selling shirts” borders on racism.
ThreeLungPark brings commitment and passion to the game, every minute of every game. He’s respectful and deferential to the boss, a real team player. For him, there’s no “i” in “team” !
I really don’t think that price is an issue – UTD have nearly won the EPL and that brings with it a huge bonus; winning the CL would bring in more money. It’s just a fact of life that to win you have to have a squad of expensive players and role-players. No team is going to go through a season with 15 or 16 guys – look how Aston Villa have crumbled in the second half when their thin squad got tired.
I would think that UTD’s fiscal priorities this off-season would be:
1) re-sign Ronaldo to a new, long-term contract with very specific “out clauses” to put an end to the bullshit;
2) re-sign Vidic with a huge pay raise to acknowledge his enormous contribution;
3) get the Tevez situation sorted – SAF’s way or the highway.
Carlitos is a really, really good player but he’s not “world class” – he’s the third choice for Argentina now (behind Messi and Aguero). He brings passion, energy, determination, and commitment to the game but his off-field bargaining is getting stale and might even be divisive although from what I gather professional athletes put aside economic concerns when they cross the white lines.
If SAF made hard decisions with regard to McGrath, Ince, Kanchelskis, Hughes, Beckham, YipYapStam, Keane, Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, and the goal machine that was Ruud then I have to believe that he will put his vision for the team ahead of any individual considerations with regard to Carlitos.
Think Fergie summed it up the fans love triers but you have to look beyond that .
We do need someone a bit more clinical , That’s where the money has to go ..
What rubbish. None of what you said is true.
invertedquestionmark, I wouldn’t go that far lol Tevez is good, he’s not a miracle worker.
Ronaldo wasnt world class either when we signed him – tough comparrison, but thats what people are basically saying. Tevez isnt World Class – full stop. Well its a little too blunt in my book.
When we won the league 2 years ago – we were all crying out for top class strikers, we were too lightweight following Rudd’s departure and we all know Saha couldnt survive a fart without getting shin splints.
So we get tevez and berba and at the start of this season we were wanking, and talking bout the fab four ala – 99 season. You need 4 top class strikers. Now all of a sudden we can do without Tevez and survive with Rooney and Berba!!!
Yes I dont want to pay 32 M – but I want him, so lets get our fingers out and get a deal done. If it cant be done then it shoudnt be due to our lack of action but his cuntish agents!
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/05/11/tevez.debate/index.html
I think some of us missed the point. The whole point of this article is that whilst the likes of Park & O’Shea accept that they are valuable squad players, Tevez has not, and that is the main sticky point. He thinks he should play more, implying he thinks he is better than Berbatov, which apart from his lung capacity (which even that is questionable), he is not
The myth that Tevez has not played much is a joke, look up the stats and tell me again. Tevez has played more than Berbatov this season, yet yielded less goals & assists. That is a fact. And the other myth that Berbatov is lazy, I would love to see the stats for the game against City. I remember seeing Berbatov defending corners, tracking back into centre midfield positions, and even bursting through to a through ball! Something I did not see Tevez do. Now I dare someone tell me again Tevez did more purposeful running
spot on denton davey
has anyone got any stats on actual minutes that Tevez/ Berba/ Rooney/Ronaldo have played as oppossed to starts and sub appearances ?
Well sad Scott but I guess we love our players to much to imagine them leaving us…. I’d like Tevez to stay but i guess he’s a luxury we cannot afford both in terms of money and pitch time
You hit the nail bang on the head,denton davey.
I would much rather have tevez in the team than Berba ask any oppposing fan who they would rather have in Uniteds team facing them and the majority would rather see berba in the united team because we wouldnt be as good, Neither Berba or Tevez are world class but Tevez is better in My opinion
But i accept the fact that he is not worth the money being quoted and with the money we have paid ya would expect a messi or some one with all the money we would have to pay
Berbatov isn’t world class? Honestly, I really just can’t understand that opinion.
Berbatov is world class,Tevez is not.End of.
Berba is NOT world class dont delued yourself, He is not in the same league as Ronaldo Rooney Messi Torres of this world
Course he is.
Name one person who has a better first touch and better ball retention capability than Berba.
World class is used once too often.Rooney is world class for me.Neither Berba or Tevez are.For one reason.Rooney is strong in most departments while Tev and Berba are strong in some of them and have more obvious weaknesses than Rooney.
Bollux – Berba has played more premiership minutes than any other player bar Vidic – FACT!
Yes Berba has played 41 games vs tevez’ 48 but of tevez 48 16 were as a sub, and the other starts came in much less meaningful games with more of our reserve team, the Carling Cup starts etc. Berba has started many more meaningful games with our 1st team players.
Look – Berba is class, but coz he is now chasing down players after the Everton display dont mean he’s a hard working cunt. I want them both to stay, but if I had to choose between them to start a game and influence a result its Tevez – the guy was the difference at OT v Arsenal.
No sorry world class for me is the cream of the cream of the crop and he is not and thats my opinion
Okay,Berbatov may not be world class,but his touch is.The rest of his game may not be,but you can’t say is touch isn’t up there with the best of them.
Tevez cannot complain to the PAPERS that he’s not playing.He should do it to SAF’s face.Also,it’s not the clubs fault he’s not been signed up,it’s his owner’s and HIS OWN DREAM’S fault.How in hell can he expect us to pay 22 million pounds for 4 years of work after which he goes back to Boca for free??
Rooney>Ronaldo>Berba>Tevez
@ John
Yes maybe Berbatov is not comparable with Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi & Torres. But so is Tevez, that is the point.
@Wiggsman
Tevez played in the Cup final, the FA Semi-Final, the CL Semi-Finals, the games against Liverpool. All ahead of Berbatov. Now tell me he has not played in meaningful games
Well said,Quad.
i totally agree with all the points made..i agree tevez works his socks off in all the games but so do park,rooney,fletcher.is it really worth spending 32 mn on him then?all along this year i was one of those who wanted tevez to stay and i actually thought that utd weren’t signing him soon bcoz they hoped his asking price will come down.but now i think SAF is right to let him go.his cry that he’s not been playing regularly is stupid as he’s played regularly when berba and rooney were injured.although if he’s made available maybe for around 15-20mn it is worth signing him but surely not 32mn…..i wonder which club in the world would pay 32mn for him,
yea his first touch is world class but thats the only world class thing bout him
theboogeyman yes his touch is world class.Second to none.I just want him to shoot more often.He has a great volley on him.
Marq Tevez also played the Club World Cup final.
@ John
And what’s world class about Tevez?
Wiggsman…..
To compare Tevez to Ronaldo is a bit much….
Firstly we paid a bout 13 mill for Ronaldo… Tevez will cost a sum that is not far from 3 times that……
Ronaldo was a teenager when we bought him….. Tevez is 23 or so…. not old but the main development phase is gone.
Anyone who saw the Man U vs Lisbon game were Ronaldo ran rings around us would say that he was potentially the best player in the world…. I can’t imagine ever thinking that about Tevez…..
Don’t get me wrong… I would like him to stay…. he would add something to the squad… but I would price a squad player at no more than 15 mill (and even that is steep)…. I can’t see Tevez going for that amount due to his owner….
As said above we need an out and out pacey striker…..
Wether they are world class or not let fergie be the judge of that. Our opinions don’t mean jack because he is the experienced one and for those slating players saying they are not world class just shows how much they haven’t a clue. Do yous know something that fergie doesn’t coz I highly doubt it.
The sad thing is that there is nothing world class about Tevez except his work rate.
interestingly, tevez is admired because he is a fighter and runs at opponents. but i made an observation…he loses the ball so many times that he HAS to run after the ball. and then he tackles and wins it back. you guys applaud and shout “Argentina Argentina”. Rightly so. BUT if you look to the root cause of it, he cannot run faster than defenders. he is often swamped by defenders before even getting the ball. He has no option but to run after the ball. 90% of times, he is running after the ball…Paying 32M for that only? WTF
http://uk.messages.eurosport.yahoo.com/Football/Teams/threadview?m=tm&bn=UKS-FO-manchester-united&tid=211246&mid=211246&tof=1&frt=1
As someone pointed out in another thread. He don’t have to run so much if he could control the ball better. And the reason he gets taken off often is because he runs too much!
I certainly do not agree with the writer that Tevez is not world-class, thats utter bollocks… We won the damn CL and the league in his first season in the club, and he was excellent with Rooney up front, with our creative midfielders right behind them… I for one prefer Tevez to Berba, however I could agree that Tevez may be a bit expensive to buy off that cunt Joorabchian… What to do, what to do…
As far as I’m concerned, Tevez and Berbatov bring completely different skill-sets to the game so comparing them is rather pointless.
I’ve been disappointed overall with Berbatov’s first season but he really does have “sublime moments of skill” – two on Sunday ! Unfortunately, he also slows down the play – some people want to call this by another name and say he “controls the ball”. But UTD are at their best when they play with a very fast, up-tempo, first-touch, give-and-go style. In addition, Berbatov does not play far forward and seems to look for the square ball rather than the “greedy” striker’s nose for goal. Carlitos’ touch can be dire but he does bring speed and drive to the game and I think he makes Rooney and Ronaldo better in that way. The season isn’t over yet but so far the style of play has been less pleasing-to-the-eye than last year.
Obviously, Berbatov’s touch with Carlitos’ drive would be a great player – a truly world-class player but, to date, not even SAF has found a way to clone players like so many DollyTheSheep.
Well said,denton davey.
I would love it if Tevez would stay, he wants to stay so he must realize he will not get to play every game if we sign him up. The unfair price tag is the main hurdle and to be honest 32 mills for a player like Tevez is outrageous. I think he should be valued at 15-20 mills, if we can get him for that kind of money then we should sign him up quickly. But Fergie has stated that he intends to take it easy on the transfer market this summer making a big signing unlikely. If Tevez leaves Fergie will most likely depend on Welbeck, Macheda and F.Campbell as backup for Rooney and Berba. That worries me a bit but Fergie has proven me wrong so many times over the years. We also have Manucho but I reckon he’ll be sold this summer. Tevez should talk to his “friend” Kia Joorichban (excuse the spelling) and ask him to be reasonable in the pricing. This is just some greedy Iranian businessman who wants to make a quick profit of a decent lad and person. That won’t help Tevez getting a contract at United, I think Fergie despises this Kia guy and the manner of the whole Tevez deal with MSI…
I just hope I don’t have to see Tevez in a Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal or City shirt next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if Real Madrid would want him, but Tevez wants to stay in England. Maybe that statement of his is just to scare the fans a bit since most of them don’t want him to play for a rival side, maybe that encourages them even more to chant “Fergie sign him up”…
In Fergie we trust…
Anyone defending Tevez on the basis of his performance in 07/08 is out of date by about 9 months.
Other than that, what the comments show is that people don’t change their mind easily once it’s made up, and that a lot of people “reverse-engineer” their view of a player’s performance – ie they decide what they want to think, and look for evidence to support it.
How much have we paid for tevez for getting him on loan??
Also, why is everyone still discussing the price? Tevez has made it clear that he doesn’t want to be a squad player, so the price is irrelevant – the question is whether he has any hope of being first choice next season.
If the answer to that question is no, then it is irrelevant what it would cost us to keep him because it’s not in anyone’s interest for him to stay.
10 million,I think.
6 million pounds John.
Sorry.I thought 10.
Our play was much more enjoyable to watch last season without Berbatov. If Tevez had kept his mouth shut I would of wanted him to stay but now I don’t care if he does or not. We’ll won trophies with or without him, now lets just pach Taison from Inter in Brazil and we can all be happy.
I am not too sure either at the moment.My feeling is that the total fee was 32 million.6 for the 2 year loan and 26 for the buyout this summer.
poach Taison
“he (Rooney) works best with Berba because they can mix and match their roles at will”
Please explain to me why there are so few goals between Berba and Roo (B assists Roo and vice verca).
Playing Wazza out left, Ron on the right, with Berbatov and Tevez up front. Pick two from Carrick/Scholes/Giggs/Fletcher/Anderson/Hargo for the center position, and you’d have my best United XI. Tev-Roo-Ron switching positions, and Berba controlling from the centre. Just like against Spurs.
Tevez has not had a fair chance this season. He and Wazza was marvellous last year. No doubt he is world class.
If £20 mill is the only concern – then pay up FFS. Who’d else would we get for that price? Benezema? No way. We could however get some unproven talent, which could of course could turn into gold. But we won’t get a proven striker. Nor that Benezema is anyways. Aguero would be a great addition, but at what price?
It’s not the number of matches he has played, it is how they have come (35/15 or something). Sir Alex man-management of Tevez has failed. When he scores four, he should get his chance in the next match. He shouldn’t be subbed in nearly every game he starts. Like everyone else he has to play games in order to be at his best.
However – Sir Alex has done what’s best for Tevez, but what’s best for Man United. Looking at the results, no one could ever disagree with Fergie’s selection policy.
As long as Tevez can’t put up with that – he gotta go.
costas,the guardian says 10 million(http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/aug/04/newsstory.manchesterunited).I just googled it.
@haha:Who is Taison??
costas,the guardian said 10 million.(http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/aug/04/newsstory.manchesterunited).
@haha:Who is Taison??
Crazy huh – imagine if we had two strikers that we were 100% happy with, maybe we’d win the world cup!
lets get a deal done for total 18 million and i’d be happy. We can concentrate on creating the next dynasty
Berbatov – World class first touch and finisher. Good in the air, clever, skillfull, hardly ever loses the ball and now helps out at defending now & again.
Tevez – Good workrate, not a bad finisher & quit quick.
Rooney – Best players in the world top 3 AT THE MOMMENT IMO: Rooney, Messi & Ronaldo.
BREAKING NEWS Fletch ouit of final
FUCKING UEFA BASTARDS!!
theboogeyman thanks.You were right.
No problem,costas.
Can anyone believe those UEFA fuckers’ decison??
Uefa fuckin gutless cowards..conmen.
If Abidal is allowed….i say fuckin boycott the final
There was no way that would change.Fletcher didn’t have much hope either.
All appeals were rejected Suhayl.Ando has to step up big time now.
Knowing the agenda that greasy muppet Platini has against English teams,he’ll let both Alves and Abidal play and then postpone the final so Iniesta and Henry can be fully fit.
You’re right,costas.
Andersonsonson,it’s your big chance.
the boogeyman they didn’t make it either.UEFA saw no grounds as to why they should lift any of the 3 bans.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/fletcher-appeal-turned-down-by-uefa-1682935.html
Such bad news for our player of the season….even though SAF and us fans expected nothing else.
Only good news coming out of the story is…theyre going to miss abidal and alves too.
Uefa
Unscrupulous Egocentric Fuckin Arseholes
Oh good.But appealing against Alves’ yellow is a bit cheeky if you ask me.
Seriously when is this idiotic rule about bans carried on into the final get dropped?It’s been 10 years since the Keane-Scholes travesties and nothing has changed.Rosettin and Ovrebo will carry on doing their jobs but for Fletcher and Abidal it’s the end of a big dream.Referees are they only people in football who can get away with mistakes.
Nice expansion,suhayl.
It was cheeky the boogeyman.Guardiola saw a jar of candy and tried to take more than he was allowed to!
costas,I don’t think death threats being issued to you and your family is getting off with your mistakes.
theboogeyman that’s disgraceful no doubt.But i wasn’t talking about that.I was talking about the people that they answer to.Have UEFA issued any sort of punishment to the Norwegian for his refereeing?Or to Rosetti?
stupid article.
What striker would be better than Tevez? and i mean a realistic target for us anyone who is thinking of replying with ‘Benzema’ dont bother.
People seem to forget that we won the double with the partnership of Rooney-Tevez so of course he’s good enough for the starting 11!
Im a huge fan of both Berbatov and Tevez and i will be devastated if Tevez leaves because you wont find another player who will play with as much passion and who can change a game in the way he does if he comes off the bench etc.
ARGENTINA!
Nope.But the fact is,I’d rather not play in the European Cup final than have someone tell me they’re going to kill me and my family.But that is not the point you’re making.I understand.The thing is,the linesmen should have helped on both occasions.But still,I think both the referees should be banned from officiating for some time.It’s not normal that they can’t be punished.That’s not there in any other job.Referees are like policemen.They just enforce the laws.But when they are wrong,the judge,in this case UEFA,should have the balls to overrule the referee,especially since they took away Fletcher’s chance to play in the biggest game of his life.Abidal should have been sent off earlier when he fouled Drogba,so his case is a moot point.
boogeyman – Taison is the next big thing in Brazilian footie, I first heard of him from a mate of mine who supports Internacional. I’ve watched the weekly round up from Brazil several times and he looks outstanding even when you take into account the different standard in the Brazilian league. Tim Vickery gives him a mention in his South American blog this week.
We don’t get most non-European football here in India,so I’ve never really heard of him.Is he good enough for us?What position does he play??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yub2YW9ptPY
its not gonna happen for darren fletcher
he cant play
OK.He is a pacy striker.That’s all I know about him.
How quickly we have forgotten last year and Tevez’s contribution. I dare any one to say they wanted to get rid of Tevez mid way through our last season. Yes, Yes I know our squad has changed, but that is what we should be analyzing-the reasons we haven’t looked as sharp as last year (with the exception of theTottenham game). How many would have said Tevez has no “pace” last year ? How many would have said Tevez isn’t “first team material”?
Brilliantly written article, but sorry to say I do not agree with the direction it went in. I think the author subconsciously blames Tevez for a lot things. Come now, lets not compare Tevez to every player on the squad (surprised he wasn’t compared to van der Sar) they are all brilliant in their own right. And to be honest I think Rooney and Tevez have traditionally played better together than Rooney and Berbatov.
But is Tevez worth 32 million ? Unfortunately, no. There are only a handful of players in that category.
If we really don’t buy Tevez. Who should replace him?
I don’t think Macheda, Welbeck or Campbell are yet capable of performing high week in, week out. If we look at other teams from the PL: There isn’t one single realistic tranfser-target, which is better than Tevez. This would mean that Ronaldo has to play more up front, and that Nani & Tosic have to step up big time next season.
I’d just keep Tevez. Maybe he isn’t world class, but he’s a match-winner, young, proven on this level and he wants to sign. You can’t have 4 world class strikers, we aren’t playing Football Manager!
no surprises from Platini & co. suhayl waiting for your positives & negatives for the Wigan match.
What a cunt platini is.
We dont need more – next big thing strikers. Lets give welbeck, campbell and Macehda a chance to break into the team – We need proven guys like Rooney/Ronaldo/Berba/Tevez – i mean just look at that attack it even scares the shit out of me ne mind the other team – the fluidity of movement if those 4 play should be incredible!
The explanation must be the most pathetic i have ever heard…lol
Seriously it doesnt even make any sense..has no logic
Wazza…nerves kicking in already.
Left some comments about the title race and what we face etc etc on the 2 previous threads to this. Not counting chickens etc etc on the Park thread and 2-0 thread.
Positives and negatives will post tmrw. And you’ll know with me there will be more negatives. Nerves
Complete fucking bollocks. You’re getting it wrong more and more lately.
“Saha ha ha Said,
May 11th, 2009 @13:38
Rubbish. Tevez is a world class player, if he had a consistant run in the side he would prove that. It’s such a shame that after last season he had a full pre-season with us, was the one man making us tick in our pre-season games and then he got dropped for Berbatov without ever doing anything wrong. I’m sure we’ll let him go but I think we’ll probbaly regret it. We will miss his fight, his ability to score last minute goals (we wouldn’t have won the league last season without him) and his overall abilty to create goalscoring chances for himself and those around him. He was instrumental in turing around our forunes in the Spurs game and he was one of the main reasons why we beat Arsenal in th CL. Berbatov for all his neat touches and his sporadic moments of class will go missing in big games. He lacks pace, fight, passion, everything Tevez has in abundance.”
Nuff said. Complete tripe.
from yesterday’s match:
Tackles:
Fletcher: 4 won, 3 lost
Giggs: 0 won, 7 lost
Berbatov: 6 won, 2 lost
Tevez: 3 won, 2 lost
Park: 2 won, 1 lost
Ronaldo: 0 won, 2 lost
Rooney: 0 won, 2 lost
Scholes: 1 won, o lost
Interceptions:
Fletcher: 1
Giggs: 2
Berbatov: 2
Tevez: 0
Park: 3
Ronaldo: 0
Rooney: 0
Scholes: 1
Free kicks:
Fletcher: 1 won, 3 conceded
Giggs: 2 won, 3 conceded
Berbatov: 4 won, 2 conceded
Tevez: 1 won, 1 conceded
Park: 3 won, 0 conceded
Ronaldo: 0 won, 0 conceded
Rooney: 0 won, 2 conceded
Scholes: 0 won, 0 conceded
another great quote that i think sums up my argument quite nicely is, “If you can control the ball like Berbatov you don’t have to chase after it like Tevez.”
He will never be good enough to be in our first eleven??
He was good enough last season when we had our most successful season since ’99 and played some of the best football in ages. We have changed the way we have played this season because Carlito is on the bench, its not a coincidence that our performances for large chunks have been average because of that.
“If you can control the ball like Berbatov you don’t have to chase after it like Tevez.”
i fucking love that
i may get that tattooed across my forehead
can someone give me the ronaldo/ battered wife quote, it was priceless
absolute bullockssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tevez is world class and this is the first article in which i just cant agree with you on. Sorry Scott, but Tevez is way better than Berba and in my opinion, Fergie has to sign him up although i dought it will happen.
VIVA ARGENTINA!!
VIVA TEVEZ!!
Tevez aint good enough. Why should we spend £20m + on a back up player, when we have talented youngsters like Welbeck & Macheda waiting for their chance?
who was the author of this article? Rich? or Scott?
Either way, kudos for a well written article. agree on all count. However I would probably change a very good player to a very very very good player… lol
suhayl : i have some points.Positives are: Kirkland is mostly out injured but Zaki is definitely out.Ronaldo is definitely after the golden boot, so expect him to score.
this is one of the finest articles I’ve read on this site (no offence to other contributors). you have summed up what I have been trying to verbalise to anyone that would listen on the reasons we WON’T sign Tevez at the end of the season. Don’t get me wrong, I adore Tevez……but for the wrong reasons. Energy, desire and passion are no substitute for real world class quality. I’d love him to stay, but not for that price and not when he wouldn’t be happy on the bench and playing in the cup games. The question is who will replace him. The kids aren’t good enough….yet. I’d plum for David Silva (possibly the best in the world?).
And Robert S, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Ole…….yes you can have 4 world class strikers in the same team/squad.
Sadly but some people wouldn’t acknowledge Berba’s class even if he scores 25 goals next season. (it has to be 43 i think).
Such is a overwhelming charm of CT’s endless running so people do not bother about anything else. open your eyes.
ps. i would’ve liked if Tevez stayed with us. But he doesn’t want to help his cause.
@Mick
And if we win the title and CL again this year, with Tevez contributing little to nothing, will you say that Berba is world class and shouldnt be left out? The problem is, things change and not just our team. If we could replicate things we did in ’99, then we would still have Beckham on the right, not Ronaldo. Stop living in the past. Tevez is good, can do great things, but if we really needed him to be successful then we’ve got bigger things to worry about than losing money.
It looks more and more like SAF is not going play Tevez and Rooney together with Berbatov in the team, and I for one would prefer Rooney over Tevez.
And as for last year, we tend to forget the contribution Ronaldo had, which was out of this world.
““If you can control the ball like Berbatov you don’t have to chase after it like Tevez.””….
Cunts….
How about if u play with your heart on your sleeve, give your all in every situation and give some fuckin pace to our forward line, not to mention score some important goals in both the CL and the league to help us to both titles, u dont have to slow down our game and generally only score against teams that are utter shite… how about that???
@Cantona77
Remind me of the ‘important” goals in ANY game Tevez has scored? I’m not arguing that Berba has any important goals either, but dont pretend like Tevez has ‘saved us.’ I actually have some doubt that he was all that big a player for West ham when they were fighting relegation 3 years ago.
Cheers sanj lol
BAMF : I will be glad to, these are from last season:
- Lyon away in the CL, important away goal
- Sporting Lisbon away in the CL, he scored our winning goal
- Liverpool away, he scored the only goal of the match
- Tottenham away, we drew 1-1 and he scored in the last minute to save us from defeat…
- Blackburn away at the end of the season, 1-1 and he again scored very late to save us from defeat…
Say, u don’t follow United very much, do u?
And who cares what kind of a player he was for the hammers??? Really interesting arguments u make mate…
And for anyone who says that he hasn’t scored as much this season, its obvious, he hasn’t played as much… I like Berba, but I generally believe he slows our attacking play down, and his FANTASTIC touch is not something I rate higher than all the qualities Tevez has..
In any case though, I think we probably will lose Tevez… Shame…
cantona77, first of all, you’re the fucking cunt, mate. a disgrace that you use the name cantona and speak such rubbish. scoring against ‘utter shite’ teams is SUCH a cliche argument. are you telling me the goal berba scored against bottom feeders bolton wasn’t a big goal? are you telling me his goal against toon wasn’t important? without either of these goals, we would have 4 points less. just because you play a poor team does not mean your goals aren’t important. and what the fuck do any of your supposed traits in carlos mean in regards to scoring goals? last time i checked, his running around with his heart on his sleeve (whinging to the media), giving his all in every situation (trying to make a tackle with his head), and giving our forward line some pace (shooting the ball directly into almunia TWICE) did not result in any ‘important’ goals in the league or the CL. “how about that???” muppet.
tottenham and blackburn, cantona? last time i checked, both of them are ‘utter shite’ teams. hypocrite.
and how can you talk about carlos’ important goals and not mention his goal against chelsea last season at OT but bring up some inconsequential goal in the group stages of the champions league? don’t follow united very much, do you?
Before the ’02 world cup i hadn’t heard much (actually at all) about Tevez so when after the world cup no half decent club signed him i assumed him to be one of those flash-in-the-pan players (the barros, suker types) who quickly shine and equally quickly disappear. Westham got him the way they did and even there he sat on the bench for first half of the season. I’m not saying he isn’t any good, only that he isn’t that good. At the beginning of last season when Nani and Anderson were signed that, and with the possibility of having tevez as another striker it seemed blindingly obvious that the already champion side would greatly improve(which in fact it did) so nobody really bothered to see if tevez was really what United needed as long as he arrived. But 2 years on things are a lot clearer than they were…we were never just competing for these trophies but now we ABSOLUTELY MUST win these trophies and every single year…whilst greatly improved there still are obvious areas for improvement…and the attacking line being the foremost area… There is an ever increasing lack of goals from the strikers and with no one (berba included) helping rooney in that aspect..and now with rooney almost becoming a winger, an out an out goal scoring forward is all the more needed.
We have improved but so have teams around us and its in details that all the difference lies…he may be the player a lot of fans want but he isn’t the one we need…he is a good player not a great one (agreed Scott!!) and if his departure means a more suited striker comes into the side then so it should be. I’d hate to see him in the red of liverpool i’d hate to see him in the blue of chelsea or the colours of city, arsenal or even spurs for that matter but for all the reasons people agree on and for a few on which we dont, the way it looks is his departure would bring more to the side than his staying would.
sanj: Great intelligence level u have, no really…
I wear the name Cantona because I speak my mind about matters I feel strongly about, if u dont like it, go somewhere else…
First of all, BAMF asked me about goals which have saved us, and by that I am sure he meant saved points for us… Those examples I have brought up definitely saved points for us thanks to Carlos, because if he wouldn’t have scored those goals against tottenham or blackburn we would have lost, I hope you are clever enough to understand that… I thought about the Chelsea goal too, however since we were leading 1-0 already it wasn’t that decisive as the other goals, though of course I agree that goal was important too, thanks for helping me in my case against BAMF ….
Second of all, you can bring up any random situation from this season you want that pictures Carlos negatively (though of course I dislike his comments in the papers as much as any United-fan, however here we are talking about the footballing-aspect) and Berba positively, IT STILL doesn’t change the fact that Carlos had MUCH more impact in his first United-season than Berba has.. And his style of play fits United better… And he links up with Rooney better… Berbatov is a good forward, and I really do hope that he grows into the team and scores even more goals next season, as I am sure we will lose Carlos, however I am sure I have made my point clear about which one of them I prefer next to Rooney and why…
So, if u got any more bullshit to come with, please, bring it on…
if by ‘bullshit’, you mean me correcting you, then sure, i have some more bullshit. carlos’ goal against chelsea was the first, right before half-time (at the near post, set up by giggs). saha scored the second from the spot. great intelligence level you have, mate. i am clever enough to understand what you were trying to say (as well as clever enough to correct you), and you essentially said the exact same thing i said about berba. berba’s goals against toon and bolton were just as important- they lead to points as well.
as for helping you prove your point to BAMF, i never disputed that carlos has scored immense goals for us. read what i have written so far, muppet- you’re idiocy is astounding. this should help you out- when BAMF writes, he uses the name BAMF. when i write, i use the name sanj. try not to get them confused.
most importantly, it is 2009, not 2008. carlos WAS huge last year, carlos SCORED big goals. he is not contributing this season as he did last year, and do not bring up him having appearances, because the difference between him and berba is not significant enough. berbatov provides much more than tevez (AND DID NOT HAVE A PRESEASON), hence why sir alex routinely starts berba over tevez. i agree with sir alex and you don’t… i’ll stay on sir alex’s side, you can keep running your mouth.
p.s. what does ‘cantona’ have to do with speaking your mind? pretty sure everyone on here speaks their mind regardless of their username. maybe you should change yours to IDONTTRUSTFERGIE77.
he’s a good player. two champs league finals in a row with him in the squad. if it aint broke dont fix it sometimes… who will replace him??
Sanj: The goal order against Chelsea is correct, I remembered wrong, and I stand corrected…
Regarding my point with BAMF, what I said about u helping me proving my point with him is exactly that, I never said anything about u not agreeing that carlos scored important goals for us, so I take your words above as the same crap like other things that u have produced so far…
SAF plays Berba because he is a new, expensive signing, as is very much expected.. And as I said earlier, Berba is a good player… He has produced, however, for the 654th time, I believe that if Carlos would have been played for the majority of matches this season as in last season, he would have produced better than Berba has now.. He fits into our style of play better, and that is a claim I stand by… Its is not easy to get into the topic of who would have done better, since, as you said yourself, sir alex routinely starts with berba over carlos….. Carlos has done good considering he has has limited play-time and has come on as a sub 15 times this season…
So yes, take your safe, easy way and say things like “I trust Fergie and u dont”, laughable childish bullshit.. Not trusting Fergie in itself, but the way u make your case… How about changing your name to “IAMAPROPERCUNT”…
scotty – this is one very good article. you got my two thumbs up for recognising this point that i have constantly reiterated but fallen on deaf ears… if only he has abit more pace, height, and better touches……. kudos scotty
About Liverpool winning everything with Tévez… As someone else stated earlier: Tévez will not be in the XI in “every important match” due to Benitez rotation policy; Tévez will feel betrayed. Also, Tévez is not a goal machine and Benitez will loose his patience just like he did with Keane.
@sanj you stated “carlos WAS huge last year, carlos SCORED big goals. he is not contributing this season as he did last year” I think you’ve made a good argument there, but we really need to consider the why “he is not contributing this season as he did last year.” I must say I’m a Tevez supporter, but SAF has made up his mind. This is heartbreaking, anytime a United player that has given his heart and soul to the team leaves, it’s a loss, a loss to us all. Winning the EPL and CL would have been nearly impossible without Tevez. As I stated earlier(17:12) How many would have said Tevez has no “pace” last year ? How many would have said Tevez isn’t “first team material” last year ? What has changed ? Yes in Fergie we trust, but fukc this one hurts.
hahaha, well played cantona. still disagree with you tho.
i will never, ever downplay his contribution to last season. he was marvelous, he score massive goals, he always gave his all every match. i would love him to stay, but he wants to start, which is impossible in fergie’s current system. i don’t blame carlos for this AT ALL, but in terms of money, it is not worth it. unfortunately, this is a business decision. last year, i would not have said he didn’t have pace and i would have called you crazy if you thought he didn’t belong in the first eleven. however, this season, we have berba, and personally, i prefer berba over tevez. i think his style provides the calm and the ability to hold the ball up. i think the argument ‘he slows down our attack’ makes no sense- many times it is his supposed ‘lazy’ touches and his ability to hold the ball up that allows the pace of our attack to move into better position. if you watch his performance against spurs, you can see how many times he was the fulcrum of our attack- attacks that were by no means ‘slow’.
still think berba will improve next season, especially with a preseason. he will develop a great partnership with rooney, and his understanding with ronaldo has always been there. if ronaldo stays, i think he and berba will be a lethal combination, especially when ronaldo plays as a striker.
wasn’t trying to be ‘safe’ or ‘childish’ when i said i trust fergie and you don’t. i am just saying, whatever his decision is, it will be the right one. everyone thought united wouldn’t be able to score when ruud left and look what happened.
as for my suggested name change, it’s not happening. cheers.
If he had a good run…Like last season? When you sign a 4th striker like Berbs you play under a different pressure, Tevez must have asked himself why pay 30 mil for someone who won a Carling cup yet i’m made to wait even though i helped win a Pl Title and a CL… Somehow i think this has affected his performance as the rest of the team plays with the knowledge that they have contracts….I guess Carlito has been the sacrificial lamb in this tragedy! I feel we have stunted his growth by not affording him the security of a long term deal. I wish we didn’t get involved in this cloak and dagger deal and just signed him long term in the beginning, I’m sure we would have seen a more comfortable CARLITO!!
Good read.
Alot of opinions but FACTS are that rooney has only had one assist from berbatov all season and none going back the other way.
Guess what that means your opinion may be that they play better together but the facts dont support it.
FACT is that we won a champions league with Tevez.
FAct is Tevez makes us a better team. He may not do all the fancy stuff but he makes life hard for defenders and scores important goals.
Something berbatov has failed to do thus far.
To suggest fans should demand tevez be passed over is a little bizarre??
I reckon you are right in saying that he needs to shut it and take a page from ole though…good point. OGS was a model proffesional.
One major thing I get from all this is we are lucky to be in a position to have the choice. Most clubs would die for a tevez or a berbatov let alone a choice between the two.
“themarkedman72- FAct is Tevez makes us a better team. He may not do all the fancy stuff but he makes life hard for defenders and scores important goals.”
wow this is an amazing fact. but i think you meant fact as in “opinion” lolss..
This article is absolutely wrong in my opinion.
Tevez IS world-class. When on song, he can dictate a game from the hole just as well as Rooney. The fact that he ‘stays up top’ is because he is instructed to do so. I agree though that what we need is an ‘up-top’ type of striker. But this does not mean Tevez is not world-class, nor that he does not deserve the price tag. On the asking price, consider that Berbatov and Rooney were both the same price (actually, Rooney was more if you take inflation into account). Are you truly claiming that Tevez is not worth it? In fact, I would say he is worth more than Berbatov for our team.
Tevez gives pace to our attack? 2 incidents came to mind during thematch against City.
1) A perfect through ball to Tevez which Dunne got to first.
2) A perfect lob ball to Berbatov which he beat Dunne to it and even tried a cheeky nutmeg after that
btw @ Cantona77
Like sanj, I think you are a disgrace to use the word “cunt” on fans of the same side. you may have your opinions, we have ours, and to us, Yes Tevez was good enough to be in the first 11 last season, because we did not have a 3rd striker at all. No Welbeck, no Macheda. How bout this for a comparison. Diego Forlan was good enough to be in the first 11 in one of our seasons, does that make him good enough to start now? No. And, I actually think the logic of “If it ain’t broken, don’t change it” does not neccessarily work in football. You stand still, you get overtaken in no time, just ask Chelsea. We also learnt it the hard way after our 99 CL win
I really cant believe some of the stuff I hear on this forum sometimes.
Park only plays because he’s Asian – what a ridiculous comment. You think Ferguson after all his success just plays players because they bring in cash! I mean c’mon hes played in a lot of our biggest games this year and the squad has been extremely important. All the players in this squad are ledgends, we are the champions of England, Europe and the World for gods sake.
Tevez is a grafter and we love to see it, he probably is not worth the 30 million but we will only notice what he gives when he goes but its true he probably is too similar to Rooney to pay that much for. As for Campbell and Manucho – they will never be good enough for the red shirt and Wellbeck and Macheda have a long way to go before they can be considered to play in the first team regularly but lets hope they keep progressing and contributing like they have.
All in all some of the people on here have been spoilt with success and people need to look at the bigger picture and be a bit more respectful.
Oh yeah and people who think Ferguson plays people on sentiment and on how much they are worth – ha ha ha absolute joke.
You really are thick as shit C77
i love carlitos for his passion on the field… but i have to go sanj. i think berbatov is a much more important addition to our squad now than carlitos… his perfect touch and passing is the perfect compliment to rooneys runs and pace… sory cantona… i have to disagree with ur point that carlitos is better than berba… how many times have we seen carlitos run to a pass and immediately lose the ball with his first touch?? you seldom get that from berba!!! hahahaha
berba may be class, and tevez may be not. but theres one thing u all cant deny. united cant play any kind of decent football with berba leading the front. if ure telling me otherwise, ure shitting urself and u know it.
Yea, during the Tottenham game. Berbatov was hitting thru ball after thru ball, we were definitely playing shit then
marq, did you read what he said? we can’t play “any kind of decent football with berba leading the front.” that second half against spurs with 5 goals in 22 minutes wasn’t decent, it was magnificent.
I was being sacarstic to dre’s comment that we can’t play with Berba leading
i know… so was i!
Alex Craig : U must be another one of those who reads stuff and makes cheap remarks by taking things out of context… I never meant that Fergie plays Berbatov because of the price, but rather because he is a new signing that Fergie has lots of hope for and he plays him often because he wants him to make an impact and get used to his new team… Which he has done… And I think u understand that perfectly… U don’t buy a player for 30 million quid and leave him on the bench, that is also important to understand, however I think that u know all that and just wanted to score cheap points, so I’ll leave it at that… And BTW, lovely expression… Please elaborate…
Marq: Dont take my use of the word cunt that seriously… I have often been in this forum, reading others opinions, and many a time have I seen those kinds of words spread around by people.. Of course it doesn’t make it ok for me to say so though, that u are right about, I guess I just reacted emotionally when I wrote that further up… however, since u had to point out my swearing, I sincerely would like u to point out the lots of other swearing by so many other people in this forum.. Cause if u don’t, then please, fuck off….
Berba was good against Spurs but who actually changed the game when he came on????
@ wiggsman- he was the spark, but not directly involved in the buildup to nearly every goal as berba was. if you remember, berba slipped a ball into ronaldo, who one touched it to tevez, and he shot it directly into the keeper. i’m not saying his appearance didn’t inject some life into the team (because he always does), but i don’t think he was the main reason the game changed so drastically…
“It was a fantastic performance from Berbatov. I don’t think he gave the ball away once. He was our best player in the first-half and in the second he produced some wonderful moments.”
-SAF
Wow this has gone long…
Anyway, as for the world class title, neither Tevez nor Berba deserve it, yet. But the main point of this debacle is whether Tevez is worth the money or not? And I would gladly say no…because even if they pay the money, do you really think Tevez will get the number of games he wants to get with Rooney and Berba and Ronny in the side? Simple answer is no. I do want him on the team, because he has the drive and the passion that a United player should have. But he also has the ego and the blabber-mouth that a United player shouldn’t have. Even if he stays, the moment he won’t get games is the moment he’ll cry out again, because that is exactly what he has done this season (admittedly for the lack of a contract).
If the cost is lowered, then SAF should truly go for Tevez, because I don’t think there are many who would bring his passion to the side. But for that kind of money, if he starts whining again, it will truly be a shame.
We have Ando, Fletch, Park and of course Rooney. We have enough fighters on the field, for me at least.
Carlos just has to improve his finishing and first touch.
Yes, he is on loan. He can say whatever he wants, but his words show what he thinks about things. Let’s not judge him until we don’t know all the circumstances. Maybe he knows (i think it’s obvious) better than we do.
But for me on that kind of form i would take Berba anyday. and just shouldn’t underestimate Berba’s qualities in order to keep Carlos in the club.
I’m totally sold on Berba’s first touch though. It’s mesmerizing how good he is with the ball….but for all his assists, he needs to get on the score sheet more because he’s a striker and that’s what strikers do. In the big games, he always might seem to create a chance for others, but I would also like to see him create a chance for himself and score.
Great article – love the guy but wouldn’t pay more than 15m (if he was happy to be a squad player).
Bring in David Villa – now that would be awesome.
AT LAST! Someone gets it spot on. Now hopefully all the “bleating Tevez work rate” sheep will shut the fuck up.
Well, Cantona77. Most of the swearing we’ve seen on this site comes in during arguments that got personal, but yours came at a simple quote, so it made it look bad. Understand it has been an emotional period for us, but theres more to come! Anyway, point taken, we would all gladly point out anyone who disrespects our own without valid reason.
-> corea is spot on. The reason so many of us are angry at Tevez supporters is that you try to undermine Berbatov just to have a reason to keep Tevez, but stats proved otherwise, but many still insist so, ala Benitez. Yes our game may be slower with Berbatov starting, but we still have been winning haven’t we?
@ wiggsman
Tevez gave the energy for the spurs game, Berbatov gave the assists. Which was more important?
@supey…your right I was trying to get another comment in saying I sound like I am doing an impresontation of a fat spansih waiter but work interfered.
The fact I was refering to was that we have won a champs league with him and berbatov hasnt won anything yet.
Also I am of the opinion that we do play better with him however I agree with the article in that you would look at the situation and say otherwise…I wouldnt believe that tevez and rooney could play together but they can…go figure.
If Tevez has good brain, he won’t go to L’pool, talking about Rafa’s rotation policy.
Should never have got rid of him but in the end we had no choice…