Gill said we had £55m to spend.

i still dont see too much of a difference between the PLC deals of Robben and the Smalling deal and Berbatov deal of now. In both cases, there were information leakages which bumped up the price for us. te only difference being in this case the player was either determined to play for us (berbatov) or that we outbid Arsenal for smalling(just as we were outbid by barcelona and Chelsea for ronaldinho and Robben). So I dont think there’s too much of a difference there.

Are the club accounts published ?? On the Man Utd site, i just found the accounts for Red Football….
In any case if you see the holding structure, Red Football’s principle assets are the club itself and the losses of red football are after taking into account the hedge losses, management expenses relating to the club only etc. So if you pierce all the corporate veil, basically overall we are losing money as I see it and I dont see any reason to think otherwise…

Just tell me, if a company is making just book losses without any “real” losses in actual fact, then wouldn’t it try to offer some explanation in the notes to accounts, etc to keep the stakeholders like bankers, financiers, creditors etc informed ?

I am just trying to trust my own judgement and experience here, not some sensationalist tabloid stories…you could have known that if you had just read my article or comments carefully…..

I have not ever tried to imply that the situation is completely out of hand, just that the way things are it is too risky from a financial prudence point of view and sincerely I dont see the cash flows to be able to pay down the debt, as well as providing enough to sustain our success. The risk of a downturn in our performances or fortunes is too huge.

What if the club fails to qualify for europe one year—-a loss of almost 40 million in cash flows means we are barely able to pay down the interest..leave alone the principal portion of debt service….and with the holding company making huge losses I dont see them in a position to help us out.

As for transparency, all businesses in the world have to disclose their basic dealings in an annual report….at least disclose the balance sheet depicting the true state of affairs at the club. then we can know for sure how much the net-debt is, how much cash sits in the bank accounts, where have they invested the surplus funds hoping to generate returns greater than the PIK debt (which as I already pointed out in earlier post is a very unlikely scenario as otherwise our bonds wouldn’t have been subscribed)

I am just a fan who is worried for the club. I do not like the way the Glazers have been piling on the excessive leverage, which you surely must agree is excessive by any stretch of the imagination.

Barca are NOT self funded. They get aid from the Barcelona Local government and local banks just like Real do.

Also Barca’s main funding source just like Reals comes from the vast amount of Investment (Thats Investment so has to be paid back) that the president brings in and which then gives them free reign to run the club as they wish. And once again the Fans have pretty much NO say

I hate the guy but to just say tevez is worser than rooney when tevez himself will get past 20 goals this season is poor judgment, yes he may not have the vision and the teqnique rooney has but he is still is way better than berbatov no offence. And the irony is tevez and rooney both have scored more than ronaldo and twice the amount berbatov has scored, add the fact tevez is a great impact sub overall he makes far greater impact, and he has shown his worth and in the big games like against us he was always a threat which like him or hate him you got to give him credit for which a lot of players are judged.

LUHG

“I certainly dont see any profits in the accounts of red football ltd last couple of years”
Thats because the Red Football accounts don’t show a profit but those aren’t the clubs accounts. Red Football is a holding company of the Glazers setup for accountancy/management reasons. While it is linked to the clubs accounts its not the same. The club accounts show a profit. This is opposed to Liverpool where both the holding company and the clubs accounts generally have shown losses

“Chris Smalling deal in the Glazer regime”
I’m not sure we can say there was much leaks with that tbh. It was a deal that was done very quickly and didn’t break until it was pretty much fully agreed

“We didnt miss out on robben and Ronaldinho because we were a PLC”
As I said to Costa the PLC played a part. It showed our hand immdediatly. With Robben it allowed Chelsea to steal a march in getting a bid in and accepted.

“why dont they come out and be TRANSPARENT about it”
So now you not only want them to be transperant about the club itself BUT about their whole business empire. Tell me this would you be willing to give all your finacial records to your employees and customers? Ofc you wouldn’t.

Kenyon was a factor in Ronaldinho BUT it wasn’t Kenyons own money that was being spent. He was working on instructions of having to do the best deal possible for the shareholders. Barca were also fully aware of the offer that was about to go in from us despite PSG never officially acknolowleding a fee had been agreeded until after the Barca deal had gone through. Even with Kenyons messing around we might have been able to still have pulled it off before Barca could get a bid in. Now yes Kenyons a complete tool and i’m sure if Gill was doing it he would have not only got the right deal for the Shareholders and got the deal through BUT with the PLC and the tool that was Kenyon it was always going to fall through especially when Ronaldinho had said in the past that Barca was his preference.

On Ronaldo. Its hard to believe anything Calderon says. I suspect that he is just trying to take the credit to make his term in charge look successful. Remember he also claimed that
1) They had agreed to sign him in the summer of 2008
and
2) That in the Summer of 2008 they had agreed to sign him the season after.
Now its Decemeber 2008 when they agreed to sign him. He should make up his mind.

“Personally, I feel that we decided to sell him about 6-8 months before he signed for Real”
I wouldn’t be surprised if internally SAF, Gill and the Glazers decided it would be best for all parties to let him go in the Summer if he wanted to go BUT I doubt we actually agreed anything with Real until the offer came in as it did seem as if SAF still thought he could persuade him that this was the club for him (Just look at the tactics employed at the end of the season that seemed to be building the team around him as the main focal point of the attack)

@rooney the new king
Its not actually United sacking him though and tbh he has probally been sacked for theft. TBH i’m sure any of us would be in the same boat if we took something that had been confiscated at our workplace

While Berba has yet to show his best it is debatable who was the better choice. Berba after all does bring something to the team that no-one else at the club has where as Tevez was really a worse version of Rooney.

“I dont care what wakey says for me a fans ownership is the only way forward long term for united.”

The thing is not ONE person has posted anything that proves Fan Ownership is credable. The only argument anyone ever brings up is “Barca do it” but they ignore the fact that Barcas setup is the setup of Real and even more worringly Valencia. It also ignores all the Finacial help these clubs get (As I have said before Valencia are in a finacial position that make Portsmouth look sound, yet in the summer o 2008 they could turn down £25mill for David Silva from United and then in the Summer of 2009 could turn down amounts approaching £45mill from Real and Barca for Villa).

And remember at all these clubs Fan ownership means very little in reality. You get a vote on the president and thats pretty much all the control you have. Its the president who has paid his running fee and has guarenteed investment who then runs the club however they see fit

And how do people think the profits are enough compete alone? And do you really think you can grow these profits at a decent rate under fan ownership. Is a Fan ownership going to be ok keeping ticket prices at the current price or even increasing them OR are they going to demand they are reduced knocking millions off the turnoever. Will they have the contacts and the business knowledge to open up new income streams. Will the have the business skills and nerve to try new things on the business front to increase turnover

Also the Fans CANT afford to buy the club. Take the 5 biggest ‘Fan’ owned sports teams of Barca, Real, Valencia, Bilboa and Green Bay Packers and they have fewer ‘Fan owners’ than we would require just to buy the club with each person paying £1000. It would require someone else to fund most of the takeover and the amounts they would have to spend they WILL require a return and our voices will be meaningless. After all lets say the Glazers released some shares to the fans today, unless it was 51% of the shares do you think that the fans would have any real say? Ofc not.

All those who support the Fan ownership idea are living in dreamworld just like those who think that the ‘Red Knights’ are automatically better than the Glazers. If either a Fan Ownership or the Red Knights want Fan support then it should be done on a plan thats fully detailed and based in REALITY and addresses every issue thats on the table. Until then we shouldn’t be helping destabilise the club on a pipe dream that there is a better ownership structure than we have

I doubt we will spend that big in the summer anyway because of the new squad rules in the EPL that mirror the CL rules. As the CL squad issue shows our squad is too big already and some of those on the B list now will have to be A list players.

If any player is brought in its going to see a couple go out first so we won’t see mass spending IMHO. It will be a player or two to enhance the squad and may not even be automatic starters being signed but squad players who will grow.