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guess it will not be as easy as we think! hope im wrong! COME ONNN
I just cannot understand why Ando does not start instead of Giggs
For the love of God…
Anderson, Anderson, my kingdom for an Anderson!
Ando has had his time to prove himself. Id always take the legendary giggs over ando.
I hate to question SAF, but DeGea needs to play–particularly with how leaky our defense has been of late. And having Giggs and Carrick in the same starting line-up is just as bad as having Carrick and Scholes together, IMO.
I hope we don’t leave RvP and Chico isolated up there.
wtf????? Giggs in a central 2 in midfield.. We are doomed… Seems SAF does not rate Anderson as worthy of a starting spot… Surely end of the road for him
Thanks sir Alex didn’t use the fat robot
We are gonna need cover in that midfield..Fergie Fergie Fergie
@van two sheds
De Gea is out after getting his wisdom teeth removed over the weekend
Unhappy about that centre midfield pairing. Think we’re going to make hard work of this. Will take a scrappy 2-1 win like last year.
Subs: Johnstone, Jones, Anderson,
Welbeck, Scholes, Cleverley, Fletcher
So the 2 snails in centre midfield? Well done Fergie
It’s probably safe to say that Nani is gone, either in january or in the summer.
No disrespect to a legend but stRting Giggs is a self inflicting own goal
Fergie just doesn’t get it, can’t wait until Giggs retires.
ouch no pace in central midfield. lets hope they dont get over run. i reckon he is saving anderson for the he seems to always injure himself around now and then puts himself out for the rest of the season. would like to have seen fletcher or even cleverly play.
There is fergie again, inviting trouble
There will never be an easy win with this…… No midfield again fuck!
Can’t believe that SAF can’t see what we all do…..I hope I’m wrong but Giggs and Carrick in CM is just asking for trouble….we have a chance to improve our gal difference andwe ponce about like this….can’t believe it….
Decent line up – Hopefully Ando will get some game time. The manager knows best, probably keeping the young midfielders under wrap for post December.
SAF is the most stubborn gaffer ever. Why don’t we start with the team that ended the game vs villa. Anderson and cleverley for gigs and young!
Cans someone tell me why Fergie doesn’t come into the 21st century? No one plays a midfield the way he does.
Carrick and Giggs is literally a nightmare. Really scared right now even though it’s Norwich.
Heart attack football once again!!
We can’t drop any points tonight after the rent boys lose to west brom. So, I hope Fergie shows the table one more time to players before the match.
Come on United!
My worries are more about the Smalling – Rio partnership today than Giggs – Carrick. Hope the extra week has brought Chris back a bit more. Could do with a win now after Chelsea’s mauling by Shane Long, and after the “Penalty Exhibit” at Eastlands.
Giggs starting is beyond my understanding. Even if giggsy scores a hatrick today the fact remains that he has no business in the midfield. I know we will still win but come on I want my team to play an entertaining football and with giggs starting it becomes difficult. Hope we don’t drop point coz that the last thing we need after chelski loss to west brom.
Good luck boys.
Agree with the comments above! Why is SAF being so conservative and not playing at least one pacy midfielder who can get into Norwich’s box to support the strikers? Shitty’s 5-0 win shows how important goal difference is going to be again this season. So for fucks sake lets start with pace in midfield and then bring on Giggs or Scholes when the game is won. Baggies stuck it up Chelski which is to be applauded!
That bench could be a 6 man midfield, when you think about it
Can’t understand why Giggs is starting. Ando must be wondering what he has to do.
DDG should also be playing in goal.
I bet we will go in a goal down at halftime after we have had our midfield trampled over, Ando or Clev will replace Giggs at HT, we will somehow start firing around the 75min mark and end up coming home safely with a 3-1 win, leaving SAF forgetting the lesson he should have learned.
Selecting Giggs is both appealing and scary at the sme time, he would certainly play an important role behind Chicarito and RVP.if Fergie thinking about Valencia and Young to be the cover as defensive midfielder along with Carrick, that will be fine but personally I would like to see Anderson or Cleverly instead.But anyway, I will take a three point at any cost after seeing City demolishing the sorrow Villains its crucial for us to get another away win.
Great to see the squad used.
DeGea had his Wisdom teeth out, so in comes Lindegaard and Johnstone makes the bench.
Cleverley and Welbeck played the full game for England in mid week, so moved to bench.
Really pleased that Lindegaard and Smalling are fit.
Also pleased to see Henandez getting a start as promised by the boss after his hat trick.
Would be sweet if Giggs got the winner like he did away to Norwich last year. Lad still has quality!
I think saf is old n needs guidance.in the centre of the park we need energy not f****g experience.shit comes again.
little wonder that pogba left us. At this rate he’d still be playing U21 had he stuck on with us.. Still he’s a cunt for the manner he left us.
Dela
Giggs playing in 2 man MIDfield is more worrying that smalling’s return. Smalling is atop class defender and he will improve as he plays more games. But giggs playing in midfield doesn’t gather any positive. We become handicapped in midfield. WHat is Ando and clev doing in the bench. Are they being saved for that pointless gala game this midweek.
By the way where is Nani. Now if he is not in sir alex;s plan then it would be better if he sell him this january. I really want him to stay but no point keeping a talented player like Nani in reserves if you are not playing him.
Fergie is playing with fire again, but isn’t that in the nature of any devil;)
Pathetic Fergie, you keep on playing an OAP when you have Cleverley and Anderson as options.
I would love to see Anderson as well but the hate on Giggsy right now is appauling. Carrick and Giggs are the same midfield two that put Chelsea to bed not too long ago. Lord help me the pessimism.
Get behind the lads ffs. RVP and Chicharito to run havoc. 3-1 to the good will do.
And he blames the defence when he sets up MF with these two, especially with no Rooney, why Fergie??? Might as well give them 2 goals before the kickoff.
Nani is injured. Not dropped
people seem adamant on getting rid of nani, am i the only one who sees as, if nani does leave , who would be good enough, and willing enough to join us . man utd are hardly chelsea or city in the transfer market in the sense that they can just go and buy someone like oscar or aguero. united hardly have that grasp on the transfer market. nani is one of our best players when on form and when people get behind him. everyone has a bad run of form. i rather have nani then no nani
lol ive just realised there is no rooney. lets hope young and valencia bring their A game as i believe its going to be played across the wings heavily
I hope Carrick and Giggs can stand their ground today. Quality players but usually do not bring enough energy into the middle. Maybe we will see Anderson, Cleverly or Fletcher as the game wears on. I don’t have a choice but to trust SAF
We will probably still win, but it beats anyone’s imagination that there are 4 players on the bench that are objectively better central midfielders than Giggs! Having said that, just watch Giggs play a blinder to shame all of us.
@AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHHH
I completely missed that tidbit about DeGea’s wisdom teeth. Thanks.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrggghhhh indeed!
All I want to do is win today. Go back top. We can go on goal scoring spree against QPR at OT next weekend.
KR you are the most negative cunt on this forum fuck off
@matt – LOL
City is playing well at this moment and not conceding too much goals, they also start to increase their total scoring goals.We should be very careful about this fact, too much works to be done in defense.hopefully we will sort everything out before Christmas when the real fight begins….
Utd to win 4-0,easy today!
Giggs and Carrick have just been U40, they are younger than U80…but they’re too otd for play together in real fighting that is same P.L !!!
I fear for these line up. No energy in this team and giggs and Carrick in d middle of d park? SMH
to be honest, united are hardly playing barcelona. surely the class of carrick and giggs can overcome norwich
Some absolute idiots on here today.
This Norwich team has only scored 8 all season.
I kind of like our chances. But that’s just me then?!
GET IN YOU REDS!
This will be very, very similar to the game against villa. Giggs and carrick will provide absolutely no cover for the back four, and will just jog around the midfield being worthless passengers. Then saf will finally make a sub around the 70′ mark and bring on a midfielder
Just hope that we can come back again. Saf fucking hates midfielders doesn’t he?
criticism of scholes and giggs has nothing to do with hate. how can a United fan hate them? the issue is they are not what they used to be.
Seeing giggs in MF puts the shivers in me… FUCK!!!
Come on you reds!!!!!!!
Norwich is combative, especially Holt. Snodgrass is a genuine danger.
Any links to watch the game?
Carrick should be able to handle Jones and Tettey really is nothing to worry about going forward imo. But still wish we had Ando out there in any case. He brings alot to our attacking play.
Why no cleverly or ansderson instead of giggs!!!!!
http://www.ronaldo7.net/live/sports/watch-sports-live-stream.html
both wingers can’t dribble past a player. i would have Nani over young any day..
What use is that stream to anybody fs.
work fine 4 me
told you
KR fuck off you annoying twat. stop being a negative fuck slating the team you aparently support and actually get behind them. As for the ‘cant wait till giggs retires’ statement… If you said that at old trafford you’d probably get at least 1 punch to the face.
Valencia’s crossing has been terrible!
When carrick plays along scholes or giggs we all get nervous for 2 basic reasons. We have watched too many games to realize this pattern.
1. Build up is slow
2. They don’t carry the ball close to our frontline. Everything is long to the strikers or to the wingers so we are not available to pick loose balls in the distal third of the field.
That is the difference with ando and cleverly. Our game is completely different with those two, and we have better chances to score. Remember first half of last year. Have they suddenly gone so bad we have to go backwards?
ease up parry, find a stream yourself then
Wingers no longer taking on fullbacks? What’s with the backward passing? Not at United. Unacceptable!!!
I love Giggs but he won’t put pressure on the Norwich MF and force mistakes.
Lindegard better be ready, with this midfield norwich will get plenty of chances. No wonders pogba left when saf keep playing the old boys.
Norwich comfortable right now. Too comfortable.
Com on lads…….
Evisu you remind me of a naysaying old lady.
THIS IS SHIT
thats it get some crosses in ffs! Valencia never crosses it anymore..he always pulls it back and goes in field or something wtf? (still love him though)
Lonestarred you enjoy watching this? I rather see our young players play
Dang it !!!! Get it right RvP.
wtf Van Persie normally buries those. Still..nice ball from the master Giggsy
Good spell from us now. Im just gonna go ahead and call it. 1-0 Chicharito before halftime
Winning this game could prove crucial near the end of the season, Norwich is a stubborn team.nobody here should underestimate them.
@ Evisu
Patience needed here. We will ratchet up the pressure.
Getting better cmon 0-1 before ht
Let Norwich have a sense of security and accomplishment. They are not pushovers but are prone to being too aggressive.
i don’t think we are playing badly, i just think were moving the ball too slowly. also need more runs in behind from rvp as well as pea when we are moving the ball from wing to wing around the final third. surprised rvp didn’t control that ball from giggs first and then try and bury it.
HT. Our wingers not playing well, methinks young doing better than valencia though. However expecting valencia to get to his BURNING best as the season progresses. Funny enough, giggs and RVP now seem to be our most creative outlet from what I’ve seen in this first half. WE are WINNING this! BELIEVE!
not good enough unfortunately. too slow and way too predictable. Lets hope for a better 2nd half
Dry first half. Need the midfield sub to up the pace and pressure .
Was a boring half but happy we didn’t concede. Disappointing performances again by our wingers.. I don’t know what has happened to valencia. I hope he improves in second half.
For those who are wondering about nani. He is injured and thats why he is not playing.
2-0 TO us.
If Fergie’s plan was to bore Norwich into a mistake, I’d say the plan is working perfectly. That was an absolutely dire half of football.
1st half = bunch of arse!!
Giggs is my all time United hero but I feel we need some dynasm in midfield as we are just soooooo slow!!
Clevs or Ando for 2nd half please!!
after City won 5-0 today it would be nice to send out a message. Come on United!
This is why Carrick should ALWAYS start with Cleverly/Anderson in midfield. Especially when Rooney is out. Currently there is no sense of urgency amongst any of the midfield players, with even Valencia choosing to play safe and pass back rather than taking on the full backs. The less said about Young the better, what’s the point of him anyway?
We will all see a different united after the break, Fergie will have the last word in the Carrow road today.
@ chuffer
Dynamism in midfield is DEFINITELY needed or some quality form the wings.
Another game with bunch of passengers on the field. Useless wingers and clueless midfield will make every team look like Barca. When our wingers became so pathetic? Either can’t beat their man or can’t cross and on top of it all fucking Carrick. Before everyone starts the name calling let me just point this. He tried 3 extraordinary passes upfront to nobody and lost the ball in all cases, now how many times does he try this every game? I don’t know, but I know that he has nothing to show for it. 11 games played, 0 assist, 0 goals to show for. Michael Carrick, ladies and gentlemen, one of the most overrated and useless midfielders. BTW I am not hating on the guy, I am just stating my opinion on him being not up to level required in United.
Our wingers need to step up, both of them have been a bit pointless in the attacking half. Some pace and decisive passing, we are sure to score at least a couple here. Our defense needs to be ready though, they have had some joy on either flanks with some excellent crosses.
Come onn what is this going on about city. Yeah they have scored 5 but it was against a horrible villa side. Look how they were performing against real teams. They have been very lucky to be unbeaten till now.. Let us see how they perform next week against chelsea and against Real madrid this midweek. Everyone were going gaga over chelsea. Look at them now. Lost against west brom. If I am correct they have not won a match in the league since we defeated them . It will be a two horse race between manchester clubs and the red half will be victorious next may.
valencias a shadow of the player he was,and unfortunatly not due to poor form,but due to him being found out…too predictable
as for youn,this aint villa lad…on yer bike….hopefully nani gets back to form or we cn buy someone who can actually beat a man..
giggs,please,just let us remember u as a quality player
KR just criticism . Dont be a Fucking blind fans..!
Can the real man utd please show up, please show up, please show up.?!! Stick two/three goals in the onion bag, let the roars sound out, sound out…UTD UTD UTD!!!
The first 45 mins has been painful, we have to show some drive, energy and pace. Our well stated problems in MF are even more evident today, how many times does a Norwich play need to be running at our defense in the space behind centre mid???
Yes we need patience but we need to build some momentum to take into the City game and end their home unbeaten run (how sweet would that be?), but it won’t happen if we can’t even get simple passes right, I lost count the amount of times we gave the ball away needlessly. Haven’t seen Rafael on the overlap too often either.
Here’s to a better 2nd half
If we loose this, I will put d whole blame to fergie. Rubbish midfield
1st half was perfect cure for insomnia . there was nothing in it really. Absolutely flat , we left , we go right , cant deliver decent cross we go back all the way. No dynamic midfield. I dont know what more Ando has to do to get a start ahead of giggs and scholes in midfield.
Anybody figured out the purpose of Young?
I am still in awe, why the hell a team like Aston Villa that have been fighting us soul to soul for over 90 minutes last week could end up losing to city 0-5 in such a pathetic way!!!!It seems as if we are giving too much respect for every team, that is good in football but it looks we are paying for it at many time….
.
may be losing may not be bad so that Fergi realize some player are not good enough for United
Fucking hell. Not again!
Well, that just proved Lindergaard ain’t better than DDG.
I will be glad if Carrick and Giggs get injured if it meant playing midfielders that can play. Fletcher/Anderson/Cleverley? Where are they.
Here we go, time to wake up now maybe?
Nice one Norwich, we’ve got this one in the bag now!
Not surprised, to say the least. We’ve been shit all game, with tempo beeing <0 all game! FUCKING HELL, WAKE UP!
Oh yes because i can actually see with my eyes what’s happening i’m negative. Fuck off you blind idiots, carry on with being happy that 40 year olds play for united.
fucking whore of a line up….Valencia is a biggest cunt… talentless footballer….. SAF again picking fuckall team… bllody frustrating..
I hope SAF takes a cue from this goal and makes the required changes. We really do not need to go a goal down before waking up but it seems to be the norm lately
No!!!!!Norwich is ahead 1-0
again Valencia… what a cunt.. Chicho has scored most of his goals with header and we haven’t made single cross terrible wing play… terrible wingers…
Valencia the most predictable player in England. When his pace doesn’t work teams have him figured to a tee, Nani is 10 times the player he is
Here we go, the guru has awaken the prince of comeback…..
November 17, 2012 at 19:47
KR says:
I will be glad if Carrick and Giggs get injured if it meant playing midfielders that can play. Fletcher/Anderson/Cleverley? Where are they.
fuck you really are a cunt.
November 17, 2012 at 19:48
KR says:
Oh yes because i can actually see with my eyes what’s happening i’m negative. Fuck off you blind idiots, carry on with being happy that 40 year olds play for united.
so its giggs and carricks fault pilkington scored a fucken good header? you dickhead
why the fuck are we waiting for substitution… fucking hell…
“Fuck off you blind idiots, carry on with being happy that 40 year olds play for united.”
No matter how good many of our players are, a certain ginger “40 year old” is still our best talent and a lot of other players benefit from having someone who can actually pick them out and make the team function when it would otherwise fail. Get him on and we might still win this.
Great plan Fergie bring on a 38 year old, as good as Scholes passing is he has no pace or energy.
where the fuck are Anderson and cleverly…
matt, YOU. JUST. DON’T. GET. IT.
Please everyone, no more pessimism.we need to buck up and support our lads, we will never give up.
ahjs, you forgot it’s fucking Carrick partnering him.
WTFFFFFFFFF.. Valencia you cuntttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Carrick, Giggs, Scholes the worst midfield for a top club in Europe by a long, long, long distance.
so the average age of this team is what 55?
I feel sorry for RVP, can’t believe he is playing with inept footballers like Giggs and Carrick. This team is shite without Rooney, he is the life of our club
Chico gets substituted??? Unreal.
Giggs get off the fucking pitch
Scholes and Welbeck in, 20 minutes remaining……come on United.
fair play to norwich. they are the better team out there. think we’ll struggle to get back into the game without Rooney. We look lethargic and disoriented without him. No link between midfield and attack.
KR – as ever, you’re source of inspiration with your views.
COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Fergie is deluded. You really have to question a man who keeps on playing Giggs.
The fact we have quality everywhere else is keeping us in the title. It still does make me wonder why the manager hasn’t solved the midfield problem that existed for 4 years.
With the quality we have, we can do it. If fergie picked the right team from the start, we’d be winning and home and dry by now.
For every match this season, we better know we are at least a goal down even before kick-off
“ahjs, you forgot it’s fucking Carrick partnering him.”
I think they’re perfectly capable against Norwich and most Premiership teams. They’ll find the other players so let’s hope they produce.
“Carrick, Giggs, Scholes the worst midfield for a top club in Europe by a long, long, long distance.”
Yet only Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets have achieved more over the last 5 years.
I have no words for this team.
why the hell is Giggs still playing?! If I would have been Pogba I would have gone too.
Ando and Clev no chance of a start cause a 40yo guy has to be happy or what?
fucking fumming.
hasn’t performed ONCE for fucking ages.
Iversen, you mean there is no midfield. God help us when we meet Silva, Nasri, Toure.
Retire fergie
Its a shame for many of you condemning Giggs!!!!its also shameful for you to be a united fan.
Fucking useless !! norwich deserve to be ahead in the game .. we havent really created any clear cut chances. That speaks shit loads of our performance. Watching Juve vs Lazio, cant blame pogba for leaving
Absolute wank but I expected no less. Recent results have papered over the cracks.
We are missing Rooney’s presence so badly. Even when it looks like he’s playing poorly, he puts so much pressure on the opposition, he’s just aggressive all the time. We noticed it when he was injured some weeks back and we’re seeing it again now.
ahjs, so, so, so innacurate. The Barca 3 create EVERYTHING for Messi and co. Our midfield get’s about 2 assists a season just playing sideways football and letting the wingers and forwards do the job.
in recent seasons emphasis has been shifted from creativity to tactical discipline and hard work over flair and creativity. players like young carrick and valecia might be hard workers but deprived the team of creativity. i might be happy when United wins but it has been long time since i enjoyed watching us play.
There are some complete muppets on here. Amazing.
andromeda , for fuck sake stop being so blind. No one questions his legacy just how shit he has looked for a long time.
samuel – united WE stand, yep people like you who are happy that deserving young players like Anderson and Cleverley get benched for un-creative, old, slow crabs.
November 17, 2012 at 20:03
ahjs says:
“Carrick, Giggs, Scholes the worst midfield for a top club in Europe by a long, long, long distance.”
Yet only Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets have achieved more over the last 5 years.
ahjs, you’ll only get negativity and shit talking from the cunt KR. like samuel said, his views are inspirational.
Young cant even kick a corner, 18m for waht?
FUCKING IDIOTS
Giggs shouldn’t be starting games, i think that’s noted. He’s not playing based on form or efficiency that’s for sure.
matt, it’s alright you have no come back i see.
Fucking Uselss , hilarious to watch young trip over his own legs
muppets? Cause we are saying Giggs has been shit for who-knows how long?
Even I can do what he’s doing on the pitch lately.
I don’t blame any young player leaving united if a relic like Giggs gets a start over you.
Fucking bullshit to players like Cleverley and Anderson.
He should just retire.
what the hell is sir alex doing, how are giggs and scholes on the pitch but not cleverly, anderson, valencia or hernandez!!???
Giggs should do the honorable thing and hang it up….he is taking away games from Anderson and Cleverly and really adds nothing to the team..sorry to say it..his legacy is being tarnished and we have promising midfielders who are rotting on the bench and in the reserves…arrgh so annoying….
zelh, exactly. Let the blind idiots carry on and smile and be happy that we’re losing to the mighty Norwich City. They are not real supporters and clearly don’t care about the problems at hand.
i’m fucking fuming at this!
No meaning of crosses now the best header is substituted…
KR i didn’t think i needed one, your views speak for themselves
God damn that big yellow bus.
Why wasn’t Welbeck going for goal there? We’ve created absolutely nothing in this game and deservedly heading to defeat. No positives on this performance what so ever. Norwich have been great value mind you so credit to them.
SAF got the lineup VERY wrong today. No midfield creativity until very late on. Chicarito starved for service.
Fucking shite!!!!!!
Pogba made up his mind d day he was benched and fergie played js park and rafael in d mid field. So will other youngsters do if old…. Keep playing ahead of dem
At the end of the day it’s Fergie’s fault full stop. You can’t blame the players that play for being picked, it’s their job so therefore it comes down to the manager being too blind to see how bad his team selection is and not making the changes in the summer.
UNITED4Life says:
in recent seasons emphasis has been shifted from creativity to tactical discipline and hard work over flair and creativity. players like young carrick and valecia might be hard workers but deprived the team of creativity. i might be happy when United wins but it has been long time since i enjoyed watching us play.
Totally agree with you. It’s painful watching United these days.
@KR –> We’ve been listening to people like you for decades mate. We ALWAYS have a crisis. ALWAYS. Remember when you lot called for Fergie’s sacking around 02? Nothing to say unless we’re losing. Good thing you weren’t around in some of our more problematic years.
Some funny comments on here. But have to say a midfield with Giggs and Scholes on at the same time is always going to have problems.
matt, so tell me are you happy that players like Giggs, Scholes and Carrick are in the team yet Cleverley and Anderson rot on the bench?
i don’t want to say this but sir alex has got to change his tactics or just retire and let someone else come in
@matt noted. Defeat hurts any way and getting into an argument is tempting but wont ultimately achieve anything.
we are throwing the championship here, we can not in titles like this, there is no consistency in team or in players… First Spurs and now Norwich.. if we don’t play our best team every week we are going to loose…
@KR, no one is blind here but respect needed.
Dela, i never called for his sacking, EVER so get that right. Am i not allowed to question his team selection as a PAYING fan?
what do cleverly and anderson have to do to get a game
Zelh – no, you can’t do what he does on the pitch. Secondly, i agree he shouldn’t be starting games, he’s best as a sub but the man clearly has,ambition to play regularly, he just hasn’t got the legs to do it anymore but some of the negativity is riduculous but hey, shit happens.
Wow that was some miss ! hope we score one to atleast get a point , cant afford to let city leap in front of us !
andromeda , when does respect start to cloud judgment? I think this is one of those times don’t you agree/
That chicharito welbeck sub was ill adviced
who the fuck is our fitness coach.. don’t think our coaching staff has any balls to tell SAF whats right and wrong..
Fergies team selection are getting more baffling as he gets older
This defeat is the best thing that could have happened to us to be honest. Anyone without red tinted specs could see our top of the league status was unjust and unwarranted, the same goes for our champions league group.
I hope we fxckin loose this one. fergie has become too complacent, he need to realise nani the player he loves to marginalise is the best winger at the club even tho he has deep affections for the other two, his sentiment for Carrick are all good but he need to face the facts Carrick ain’t shit, I mean that guy went from being useless few years ago to the over rated indispensable player today, why?? Because no one cn justify why he’s still at the club or why he plays every game, but those sentiments and indispensability is the reason why POGBA is playing at juve, and finally fergie need to bounce, just like giggs and scholes, him and them are legends but they old and past it, bounce baby bounce please
samuel – If Giggs wants to play every damn week he has to go. Can be happy that he gets starts in the PL from time to time with what he’s calling ‘playing football’.
Can’t remember when this team played some nice football.
Frustrating to watch at best.
Sort the fuck out of this team Fergie. And do it fucking fast!
Joffrey Baratheon, half the people on here have red tinted specs.
why is giggs still on the pitch is beyond me. he should have been replaced at half time.
We deserved to loose this. Pathetic performance with bad formation and subs. No complain here other then against our team.
Well, there we go. I gotta say it now. SAF’s gone senile!!
When is Fergie going to learn that he can’t start Giggs or Scholes anymore? Why is no one pointing this out? Yes he’s the manager but that doesn’t mean he can’t be given advice. We could have pressed an advantage today but what did we get? The worst midfield he could have chosen then even poorer substitute decisions.
The only silver lining will be hopefully Fergie realising his mistakes in team selections and tactics. These days I think he’s taken on too many responsibilities at the club and there’s not enough hours in a day to do them all because most teams we’ve come up against this season have been underestimated.
This lost was coming, we have been kinda shitty in many games, forwards and ref saved us. Now its not enough. Still early in the season.
Valencia should not be even a professional footballer… cunt plays with one leg and can not cross a single ball in 60 mins… pathetic..
giggs should just fucking retire, every time he started a game we lost
What the fuck does Phelan do by the way? Is he not supposed to advise Fergie on team selection.
If he ever becomes United boss then that is end of us.
Guardiola i hope you are ready either at the end of this year or the year after to sign a deal at United. I want to see us return to playing football. No more 90th minute bail outs.
Simple football math today. Lots of possession but no clear shots-on-target created means we didn’t have any creativity in the middle. Tony V’s has become predictable. Chicha a better sub than a starter.
This whole only getting started after conceding and just out scoring the opposition was going to catch us out at some point. That was a very good header and a very good goal. Well done Norwich. City top of the league again. This is going to be a tough season.
commentator asked who saw this coming?. about 80% of man utd fans on this blog before kick off. midfield was terrible
I wonder what this old man is keeping players (anderson, clev) for. Why use tired legs. High time this man steps down.
giggs needs to retire …NOW
Like gary neville a few yrs back…ur past it mate..
hang it up…
i cnt believe fergie expects us to win with giggs and carrick in midfield,then bring s on scholes aswell
this is premier league not bloody sunday league…
no wonder pogba left,i dont blame the lad,he wants to play,,,,
Don’t worry, Giggs and Scholes scored last season against them here. Charlton once scored against Norwich when we won too, but he didn’t bring his boots so couldn’t play.
Can you imagine being in the prime of your life, mid 20′s, playing for Manchester United and can’t get a game because the manager thinks too past it legends are better than you! Well, that’s how Anderson and Cleverly must feel. Whoever mentioned Pogba…spot on. I’d leave too. Why waste your career.
Pogba, Cleverly and Anderson should be picked ahead of Scholes and Giggs.
This is not something Fergie would have done 10 years ago.
You reap what you sow.
Missing Rooney much do you think? Giggs is past it and should certainly never play with, never mind start with Carrick.
Title winners do not approach matches like this one with that level of complacency. Pity QPR next week because it’s time for us to wake up and show some spunk.
That came as a shock. NOT! This loss was in the air from the moment our line-up was known. Seems we always loose when playing Giggs and Carrick in midfield. We have no tempo, and are constantly beein overrun. Not saying this is over, or that we loose, because it’s easy to figure out – NEVER, EVER start Giggs in a game again. He’s ment to come off the bench, when the opposition have been running for 70-80minutes and are brought down to his level in terms of energy.
I fucking hate this, loosing due to pure stupidity/underestimation from the manager and his assistants.
Jeoffrey – table describes what a team has done. Paper over cracks, whatever you want to conjure up, at the end of the day, united gathered the points to be top, they didn’t pay bribes or fix games. Your logicof “unjust” is baffling really.
Warnings have been sounded out several times, continiously falling behind was bound to get punished. Norwich got their tactics spot on and won. We rolled out the wrong midfiels which gave the defence no protection or the forwards support. Reliance on experience can only take you so far. I can see giggs and scholes packing it in. Time for a renewed energy in there. 3 defeats already doesn’t look pretty, especially with city racking up goals and being unbeaten. This season is a fight till the end, we need more fight.
It’s funny how most of the blog can see what is wrong yet there are the stubborn few who still think this is the 90′s. Reality check needed for those.
Fergie got it all wrong today.Giggs has lost it.simple as that.Based on today’s performance,we deserved to lose this game.
Is SAF blind? How many times do we have to play this ancient formation that fucking requires good wingers when our two (because he fucking refuses to use Nani) are so fucking out of form it is comical. Piss poor. Tactically so fucking primitive it’s ridiculous. Just think about our midfield in 2020: Giggs and Scholes both in wheelchairs.
what is it with our new type of play?
r we stoke in disguise?
get the ball to the byline and cross,this is 2012,not 1996…wheres the midfield?why r they so talentlesS?where the pass and move we saw before?
why arent cleverly and ando playing who can do this?wheres kagawa?he has been poor anyway
valencias been found out,and young is just poor
Been playing like tossers for quite a few weeks now. Fucking idiots!!!!
Last few weeks it has been like watching a traincrash about to happen and SLAM happened again .
3 defeats already this season.
We were very clungish, careless, casual, pedestrian. Centre midfield is a problem so so so slow passing
Enough of this “BUT Giggs and Scholes are legends blah blah”
They HAD their time and now it is the time the get the fuck out and make way for new. What a disgraceful performance by the team.
It really is surprising that for a man who many claim doesn’t have any place for sentimentality (this selling RVN, Beckham etc) He continually keeps Giggs and Scholes and the the walking corpse carrick in the first 11 when CLEARLY it is the time for them to retire/ move on to other clubs.
This is what we get for relying almost entirely on our strikers. Giggs and Carrick get a start, but not Anderson and Cleverly.
RvP wasn’t “flat” as the commentator stated. He was isolated. Same thing with Chico.
It’s pretty simple. They can’t score if they never touch the ball.
With no Rooney , kagawa injured our lack of creativity in the midfield is baffling. Valencia is having a poor run of form he hasnt delivered a telling cross in last two games. Less said about young, the better. With scholes on the bench along with cleverly and anderson, there is no creativity in Centre mid with giggs and carrick. It is slow as a snail. And it took 80 mins odd to bring on ando who is lot more direct and can do something in the midfield. Didnt really understand why clevery and ando doesnt get to start ahead of giggs and scholes in midfield.
@KR —> Every few seasons we see people calling for Fergie to be given his walking papers. Always from know it alls.
Your big problem here has been that Giggs started ahead of Cleverley and Ando, whereas Giggs didn’t have a bad game, not much more or less than I’d expect from Anderson or Cleverley given their performances when they’ve been given a chance. As for Scholes, he was United’s busiest player since he came on.
You don’t train these guys, you CAN’T pick the best squad, only the coaching staff can. Remember we only won this fixture last season with the last chance of the game, when Giggsy scored. Today we faced them on their own turf on the back of good results from them, without Wayne Rooney too. No matter where you go in the league, when you travel away from home this CAN happen ANYWHERE. It happened at Wigan last season, Wolverhampton the season before and so on.
That being said, if it wasn’t for some of Ruddy’s better saves today and RvP botching a couple of his chances, the result would have been completely different. It wasn’t our day. You have to accept it!
That’s what happens when you pick Giggs to play CM instead of a player in form like Ando!! Fucking embarrassing again!! Getting tired of shit performances and just managing to get something out the game!! SAF needs to look at his selections, everytime Giggs or Scholes start we struggle!! It’s not hard for fuck sake!!
@dasilvatwins
I thought the same. Almost everyone here was going crazy (in a bad way) with the starting lineup, so how come so many amateurs can see the issue and our coaching stuff can’t. This was a bad lose, no questions about it.
aint surprised we lost to be honest.this is a shit man united team with no fucking midfield im not really even disappointed.we received £80m quid for ronaldo and produced a midfield of giggs scholes and
carrick.where the fucks anderson fletcher cleverley……? if they aint good enough then fuck them off and get some world class players.this team is fucking boring to watch too fucking slow and fucking predictable.we got rid of berbatov cos he apparently is too slow yet kept carrick who’s fucking slower than my dead gran.fuck knows really how we are 2nd in the league and top of champions league group…..oh i know we’ve had some dodgy refs and are playing 3rd rate teams in europe.this just isnt good enough
Hey we just lost a game against Norwich. Calling for SAF to retire is trolling at its piss poorest.
Well I am glad thats over, was a terrible game to watch. The blams has to fall at Fergie’s feet for this one. Not so much for the starting line-up, ’cause I think even with Carrick and Giggs, we should have been able to handle Norwich, but he definitely got his substitutions VERY wrong
1. To take off your most in form striker when you are chasing a game, and that too towards the end of a game when Hernandez is at his best is simply stupid
2. To add to the blunder, he keeps Giggs on and brings Scholes to form that most scary trio for most United fans – Scholes/Giggs/Carrick. Scholes would have been ideal to start this match with Giggs coming on to replace him later, but to put both of together while u have Cleverly and Ando on the bench is suicidal
3. To compound the errors, he keeps Young on, who has been absolutely shite in the last 2 games and takes off Valencia, who despite being not at his best, atleast would have exploited the space in behind the fullback more towards the end.
@KR> when does respect start to cloud judgment? I think this is one of those times don’t you agree/<
Judgement is done at the level of many games, not only one.We had a fantastic run of coming back from 2 goals deficit yet we have managed to respond in the best possible way.That is football, you sometimes lose the momentum due to other factors, international break has certainly played a bad role on our fitness, its not just Giggs's fault as you claim.Now we have to respond, at the end we are all disappointed but respect for the team and the players should not change, that is in our tradition, or else you are not really a united fan.
What about our away day lads? I know many of them personally and they are being treated like shit, crap performances most away games and Fergie never apologises to them on air when they pay a fortune to go down there
Why bring up pogba, a juventus player after a defeat. Clutching at straws.
Fergie playing Giggs and Scholes is not something minor. I’ve been saying all season and I will still be saying it if we win the title. SAF needs to retire to the board room. We are not going forwards.
Norwich are a poor team and didn’t play that well.
Is lambert a scot? Am asking cos fergie has a way of dashing them points. Moyes living witness
so frustrating when everyone can see the problem. carrick cannot play with giggs or scholes. valencia constantly being found out. young as been too one dimensional.
Alot of tonight didn’t make sense. Giggs, scholes in the same pitch when we are loosing? Unthinkable. But it got me thinking. Hav we taken the lead of the table too early so fergie decides to loose on purpose? The team dont seem to perform while on top so better be behind and chasing than setting the pace for the table. If thats the case then fergie maybe a genius motivatator. I mean seriously, what can u really tell players who seem content with being top of the log? But put in a few players who will not let you loose embarrasingly, giggs + scholes n u have the perfect cayalyst.
But if he actally wanted to win and chose this team, then we be fucked and should forget any trophy this term.
@Saad
Chico’s better as a sub than a starter? That’s what you conclude from this game?
Based on what? He hardly even touched the ball today!!! I fail t see how you can pin tat on him.
Fantastic effort lads. You could tell we really wanted to win this but we were always going to struggle against blinding talent like Grantiano Holtaldo and Kyle Pilkinho.
I dont know about you but i am very proud of the lads. Played their socks of they did.
What was we even thinking about playing Giggs? We had Cleverley, Scholes Anderson, and Fletcher on the bench.
With all due respect, fergie will have to take full responsibility for today’s defeat. He has learn his lesson on his team selection from CL elimination last season, clearly he hasn’t learn for the league yet. 3 defeats already. Everton, spurs & norwich.
It was really an heart attack football!
Our midfield got overrun by Norwich all night. Correct me if I’m wrong, all of our 3 defeats in premier league are due to Giggsy-Carrick pairing in our midfield. Someone mentioned that he forgot that United needs to buy an MC. Well, we don’t need though if we start to play Ando and Cleverley. We lacked of pace and movement with Giggs and Carrick playing in our midfield.
So, Rent boys lose to west brom became meaningless now. Damn it! We supposed to put pressure to the rent boys by winning at Norwich.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!
ok we are only second 1 point behind city who still have to play us and chelski but our midfeild is embarassing and not a champion midfeild with ando and clev it could be, maybe wanyama could also help but we need a proven world class mid until ando and clev achieve their potential.
giggs time has come and scholes can only really control a game late on
andromeda, you’ve got to be joking. I go to every home game no fail, try and get to away games when i can so don’t talk to me about being a supporter.
Why should we pay the money to watch that shit? If you’re going to lose at least go down properly and not like that.
Its our worst performance of the season… Giggs and carrick in midfield?.. what was fergie thinkin?
Pablo – if it’s a shit team, why do you dedicate your time to watch the team and get all upset?
You can get away with shooting yourself on the foot once. Unfortunately, this season has seen us concede the same type of goal time after time (a midfielder making a late run unchecked) and it’s also seen us perform horribly evetytime the midfield’s age is over 32.
You expect Wenger to never learn from his mistakes. But for Fergie to do it is mind boggling.
@KR –> Then don’t fucking pay to watch it, if it’ll shut you up!
*average age* I meant.
@Diego lmao @Just think about our midfield in 2020: Giggs and Scholes both in wheelchairs….Loool. Let’s hope all 3 of them are gone by then
QUICK REACTIONs TO NORWICH 1-0 MUFC.
1.Fergie gave the game away. Seeing Giggs in that starting line-up got most of us pissing our pants. Why ando, clev on the bench? U might ask. And believe me, only fergie can answer that, we have a midweek game that doesn’t matter so who’s he resting?
2.Lindegard is far below DDG in GK abilities. The same kind of SOG that led to a goal against us was what Ruddy tipped over in the dying minutes.
3. Our wingers are dead. We would have been better playing the fucking diamond. Ash young was sold to us at triple the value, and valencia can’t handle the weight of that number 7.
4.Giggs should never start a game for us again. He should come on as a SUB. Felt like we played 9 vs 11. Giggs and valencia were just non-existent. As for carrick, Still baffles me.
5. A good thing is that I hope this serves as a wake-up call. We’ve escaped many defeats but we can’t keep depending on our skills in escapology.
6.SAF is not the best tactician around. Taking chicha off was a bad idea.
7. SERVES US RIGHT!
disappointing performance all round… no potency in attack hence shooting blanks. At the end we might’ve gotten a draw with an OG, but well done to ruddy.
We didn’t do much all over the pitch – very average. United have been doing this jekyll and hyde for a while now – today it was mr. hyde!
I’m telling you know we will be trophyless this season if Fergie continues his ways. What you want me to say? Just because i hate City to the core that i shouldn’t acknowledge how good they are in the league?
Have you seen their midfield? Don’t be surprised if they crap all over us again like last season.
We rely on heroes like Rooney, RVP, Chico to rescue us from defeat too much instead of making the emphasis of dominating and controlling the game.
has there been a game this season in which our midfield has controlled the game from start to finish?. i honestly cant think of one. and why does phelan look like a “yes” man. i normally take the piss out of downing towards my liverpool mates about how he had no assists or goals last year , just come to realise that micheal carrick has played 12 games in the premiership this year 0 assists 0 goals. that is terrible for our creative midfielder. wrong team selection tonight.
Full credit to Norwich. They were physical, stayed within themselves, were aggressive but disciplined and defended well. Chris Houghton is a quality manager and congratulations to him.
We never really put them under pressure and paid a dire price for it. Upon seeing Giggs and Carrick in midfield I groaned but kept quiet. Hopefully we will never again see a lineup dependent on Giggs or Scholes for creativity and midfield defensive pressure in EPL games again. Their time has passed to play a full 90 and dictate terms to other teams. The absence of Rooney was felt! We got exactly what we deserved and hopefully the lesson will not be forgotten this time.
how can a manager go from genius tactics to such horrific ones. especially one with SOO much experience…surely he should know by now. Hopefully this will be a wake up call but unfortunately i think fletcher, anderson and cleverly will start in the midweek in a pointless game…we HAVE to beat qpr at home with the CORRECT team out on the field! NO MORE USELESS TEAM SELECTIONS AND SUBS PLEASE!
Fletcher / Ando / Cleverley all deserve to play ahead of giggs .. Considering CL is a dead rubber .. n we could field our reserves in midweek makes it all the more disappointing…
as usual, we come through unstruck against the so call thougher games & fuck it up once again on these games where points are there for the taking. We can’t carry on this way if we will to reclaim our title. Gutted on today’s result. totally gutted.
Right I’m out for the evening, since this thread will be hundreds of comments longer than when we win… again. Let the trolls have the house for the evening guys, go out and have a few beers, hang with the kids or something, don’t waste your time here. Couldn’t care less what happens in Istanbul, then we can take out our frustration on QPR (sorry Three Lungs Park.. we still love you!) at Old Trafford at the weekend. Not gonna check this thread for updates, so catch you in a few days
I never thought Fergi is this sentimental.
Kagawa needs to play 90 minutes and for every game of the season from here on out when he returns. I hope the Nani and Valencia debate is settled, only 1 player is world class and it’s not the one from ecuador.
tbh i’ve been bleating on about this since the transfer window shut, who the fuck in our mid can go head to head with yaya toure who i think will rape us again if carrick is put up against him
valenica is not a bad player ,, he is going through a bad run of form. whether its because defenders have sussed him out or he is low on confidence i dont know, but calling him a bad player is a statement far from the truth
Wow!!! Where were you all these past weeks? At the end SAF thought he picked the right team but didn’t work out. I presume none of us know the dynamics in the dressing room so hate to comment about team selection. We may think we know the problems about the team selection but what there is more to meet the eye? Well I’m going to drown myself in a bottle of whiskey and come back tomorrow evening
Losing to norwich on the back of 5 conservative away wins?!??!? Argh….hard to swallow. Fergie fergie, damn it! Play ur best team every league game for godness sake.
Secret Agent Fergie strikes again but not content with a shit starting line up he then makes THEM subs.
WHAAAAAAA !!!
Hernandez is a shite footballer. SIMPLE AS
Carrick and Scholes cannot move.
Having TWO players touching 40 is unforgivable
Young is a fucking pussy took him 80 minutes to run at a fullback.
So happy we lost just like against Spurs. Maybe they will learn … maybe not.
Clear failure of competency and leadership from the coaching staff. With the 1st position on the league table at stake, if the decision was to go 2 in the center, then Giggs should never have been part of the discussion. The fact that he was laced up and at the center circle at the start of this game tells me Fergie and Phelan have no idea on how to keep Mancini’s men at bay. Disgraceful line up, deserved result.
Silva returning for city is the key for them, unfortunately that is what we lack
we need a proper assistant manager, can someone please tell me what Mike Phelan adds to the team other than experiance?
i know he was a great player and all that but he just seems like another yes man with little tactical knowledge. today proved that with some terrible substitutions.
I am sure that many people will denounce those who come on here after such a loss questionning Fergie and his selections and once again the question will be raised of what he has bought to the club…Regardless of the past, which by the way is simply that, the past.This team or rather Fergie’s choices in this team are not up to it.
Once again a midfield containing Giggs….why oh why, Carrick and later Scholes has refused to put any real pressure on a team at the bottom end of the league, we have been undone by effort, average mediocrity and a bit of passion. When I watch teams like Chelsea and Man City (god forbid) they at least try and look like they give a shit about losing – this team today had nothing to offer and anyone claiming we were unlucky needs a mental health assessment.
I am sick to death of watching our team fall behind and rely on individual brilliance to get us out of jail, its all very well and good Fergie claiming we are signing the best young players around but he has gone from the man who played and trusted them to the man who doesn’t. Anderson? Cleverly? the list goes on but if anyone wonders why the likes of Pogba end up at Juventus when Giggs and Fabio are getting picked ahead of them then you need your head read.
I firmly believe that fergie has finally fallen behind the game and his take on tactics with his team of yes men behind him is actually being found out, 3 league defeats allready and being honest it could have been several more is not acceptable and although you may call me a a plastic fan after watching this team for over 20 years I can take no more.
My love affair with this club and manager are over and I refuse to watch this excuse of a midfield anymore. Fergie was always the one who moved players on when they were past their best, what happened? The club needs a sea change and anyone who does not see it is deluded at best…RIP Manchester United today’s complete and utter lack of heart and effort strikes against everything this club stands for. I know I will get slated and told I am disloyal and to go and Fuck myself but does anyone feel this club has moved forward?
Football is supposed to be a form of entertainment but there is nothing entertaining about watching this shite.
Good luck all and put your money on City to win the league again.
lol bring back queiroz
surely this job appeals better than managing iran
Phelan and metalutseen are cunts while fergie is an outdated trainee. D defense is also faulty may be we need steve bruce back.
@KR
You don’t need to talk about how much you pay to watch a football game.we should concentrate on how we respond in the next stage, the damage is already done.
First of all to all the idiots here acting like idiots. Well I’ve got nothing to say. You’re just idiots. Acting like the blew the title.
It’s unfathomable why we would play such a midfield in an important game. I’ve loved Giggs and will always will but I think we should be playing him when we’ve wrapped up the title. If we do that and are able to spare a game or two and let Giggs get his goal. May get backfired if some game Giggs saves us but its too risky and the midfield selection today was just poor. It’s our midfield that let us down today, more than the defence, which has been the case the past few games. No blame for the strikers.
And I just hate the way some react. Rubbish performances all this while? I’m pretty sure you didn’t say last week or whenever we’ve come back from trailing. The defence has been shaky but today it was the midfield that let us down and that’s why we couldn’t dig ourselves out. And I don’t really see how Lindegaard gets blamed too.
Its been some weeks now that we have seen a very poor performance from the team as if it is only when the opponents scores then they will play. As players who are paid, it is an obligation from them to give result and not sleep as they have done so far, really disgusting and what to say about the coaching. Giggs and Young has never been present and poor as usual and last week Young was taken off at half time and United game was better but this week the manager has done really great by allowing both stay on the pitch and removing Valencia and Chicharito. As a united fan i am really disgusted with how SAF is managing the team currently. Giggs has done its time and should now retire. How can you change a winning team when they are at their best and do so many changes and think that you are facing a small team. every match is important if you are aiming for the title. Giggs was walking on the pitch for most of the match.
Surely Rooney absence was felt but there was Cleverley, Anderson and even Paul scholes on the bench waiting to come on. Firstly the changes came too late and secondly it was the wrong players that was taken off.
SAF should start thinking that fans of united are starting to be frustrated and that he should stop messing around and deliver the goods and it also applies to players.
It’s simple, in the premier league, which lacks technique but mainly hustle and bustle, you can’t afford pedestrians in any positions. Midfield is the heart-beat of them and united are utilising the wrong players or the wtong pairing. It’s definitely a defiency, alongside our incapability to field a consistent back four.
Rio is still top class but his pace is non existent. At this stage of his career, he needs protection from the midfield. In fact, the entire defence does. This season, united have racked up goals and the team seems attack minded, that comes at a price when you have playera who aren’t willing to carry out defensive duty. Another wake up call, massive improvement is needed as titles don’t come on a plate. I agree with those that say fergie got it tactically wrong, he’s open to qyestioning as he’s not perfect. Arsenal’s loss there this season should’ve been a reminder that not only do norwich pose a threat, they’re solid at the back.
Young and valencia’s performance today shows why a player with individual match winning ability like nani is valuable.
andromeda, but i have been for a while now. The midfield is not good enough.
The sooner we get our head out of our asses the better.
The COMPLETE blame for this loss lays squarely at the feet of one man. SIR ALEX FERGUSON.
His REFUSAL to stop starting players because of sentimentalism has been disastrous. Some of the decisions that he made just defy all reasoning.
First off you start giggs and carrick in the same team. then when we are losing you compound the situation by leaving giggs and young on the field and adding ANOTHER ageing set of legs to the team.
I have said this from the day we lost at Everton and I will continue to say it. Scholes and Giggs should NEVER start ANOTHER game for this club again. But will my advice be heeded? absolutely not. Clearly Sir Alex is seeing something that 98% of the Red Army is not seeing. It is completely inexplicable that we have younger and more able midfielders on the bench and fergie keeps starting old, worn out legs.
ONLY TWICE this season have we put in any performance worthy of praise.Chelsea in the carling cup and newcastle in the league. We have lost three out of our starting 11 games.
Of the top 10 clubs in Europe, our midfield is the WORST. Champions league hopes? AHAHAHAHAHA. at this stage we are better off focusing on trying to win the league. we must improve in January but will fergie buy the eight players? NO HE WON’T because he is confident in his old age players.
It’s a disgrace. How many glory hunters there seem to be among us. Irrational. React yes, but not like idiots. It’s just disgraceful.
samuel its a shit team cos ive turned up for the last 5 years without missing a home game and gone to selected away games and been a member for many years before that.ive pumped thousands of pounds into this club like many others and im afraid the football at the moment is fucking wank.i appreciate you’re a diehard fan who sees no wrong in this team but no way can you tell me this is the same football i watched 3-4 years ago.today was pathetic and it was a result waiting to happen cos all season the footballs been awful.
dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT, that is not an over reaction it’s the truth but don’t worry you’ll get slated in a minute for not being a fan.
this is absolute shit, we have a very average team; only van persie and rooney would MAYBE get into the city or chelsea team. We will not win the league by constantly have SHIT tactics!
I think the fans need to be a bit more realistic, losing nearly a third of our games so far this season is not such a bad return for using and persisting with such a ponderous, lethargic and increasingly geriatric center midfield. If we had lost half of our games so far this season I don’t think we would be able to complain – this is the chickens coming home to roost.
I comfort myself with the knowledge that for the past 3 years I have been assured by people that know a lot more about football than me, that we don’t need to strengthen our center midfield, that it’s ok to habitually make the opposition midfield of lesser stature teams look like it is full of galacticos.
On top of the Déjà vu annual midfield problems has anyone else noticed that our coaching staff seem to be coaching the spontaneity and dynamism out of Cleverly’s game, and turning him into a water carrier?
“Daniel88 says:
Secret Agent Fergie strikes again but not content with a shit starting line up he then makes THEM subs.
WHAAAAAAA !!!
Hernandez is a shite footballer. SIMPLE AS
Carrick and Scholes cannot move.
Having TWO players touching 40 is unforgivable
Young is a fucking pussy took him 80 minutes to run at a fullback.
So happy we lost just like against Spurs. Maybe they will learn … maybe not.”
What a fool of epic proportions.
I put the blame on Fergie, that midfield was immobile, but i wont go to a point of insulting the gaffer or calling for him to quit, cause i can’t take the job. “All you twats hurling insults at Fergie, ‘Fuck you and your missus! wet cunts!’
How can we allow Shitty to go on top of the league?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
Capitano, not insulting him just merely questioning him. I’m pretty sure all those travelling back from east anglia are too.
Dannysoya,
Couldnt have put it better. Time for a change in the guard I feel, emotions are getting in the way of good decisions, as they do for many people at an advanced stage of life….it will take another couple of years I feel before the changes are made but it is time to move on.
The sad part is that Chelsea are already moving to phase put Lampard and Terry adter getting shot of Drogba and yet we cannot seem to act with the same level of insight…its gonna be a hard few years..
@ Gizmoj
I for one appreciate your passion. Fergie got it wrong. No doubt about that.
Carrick’s role is secondary creative and primary defensive cover for the back four lately. With either Scholes or Gigs his burden is increased.
Chicarito is a dynamic player who is dependent on an alert midfield to provide him service. That never happened today.
Valencia is still awesome. Opposing defenses are double and triple teaming him and we are not exploiting those gaps.
Smalling is still learning. The Norwich goal came from a momentary lapse.
I am thoroughly disgusted that we squandered that game. Let’s hope we never forget the lessons it should teach us.
Never bn this angry. Always take the positives from defeat but this one could simply have been avoided. The warning signs were there last weekend. One out of Ando and Clevs must start; even Powell. OMG. Why Sir? With all due respect. No flair as we’re missing Kagawa, no aggression without Rooney who clearly is the team’s soul, and yet we leave out Ando n co. So gutted!!! Still some positives, think we made them work at the end to earn their victory, and young did better on right. Someone get me my nani, our best winger by far. Like tony but feel he’s regressed terribly. Can’t beat a man, won’t cross. Rafael even looking like a better winger. OMG!
whats wrong with playing anderson & cleverley ??
this midfield issue needs sorting out once and for all, at present its total shite
we will win fuck all with what played today.
just what does phelan coach??
RvP and Hernandez–two of the most in-form strikers in the PL at the moment–didn’t just go flat simultaneously.
No one fed them the ball today.
Our best team without a doubt in a 4-3-3.
DDG
Evra Rio Vida Rafa
Fletcher (definitely not Carrick)
Anderson Cleverley
Kagawa
Rooney RVP
That team will wipe out anyone in the premier league.
Embarrassed to be a united fan looking at some of those comments. Dissing Fergie, giggs etc. Yeah he made a mistake. We don’t have a Devine right to win every game. Yes it hurts more when they looked like they wanted it more, but hey we’re 2nd and thru in champs league. Get behind them…..red army!
Pablo – the accusation that i see no wrong is exaggerated. I know what’s wrong but i choose to judge constructively.
United aren’t playing like 3-4 years ago because that was a great, experienced team at its peak. This current one is in a rebuilding process, it’s filled with ageing legends and younger inexperienced players. We need to be patient and probably ensyre moments like this before united reach the levels they aspire to. Where is that perseverance?. I know there are faults in the team and we have to improve but the negativity on here, preach of doom and gloom outweighs the constructive one. It’s not red tinted specs, we just need to stay united and back the team. Claiming phelan is incompetent and players are shit is puzzling to say the least. You’re frustrated about tonight and so am i but the commitment to a football club is ingrained, we’ll all be back chanting for the team again. Like i said, fergie deserves to be questioned about tonight.
Pablo – the accusation that i see no wrong is exaggerated. I know what’s wrong but i choose to judge constructively.
United aren’t playing like 3-4 years ago because that was a great, experienced team at its peak. This current one is in a rebuilding process, it’s filled with ageing legends and younger inexperienced players. We need to be patient and probably ensure moments like this before united reach the levels they aspire to. Where is that perseverance?. I know there are faults in the team and we have to improve but the negativity on here, preach of doom and gloom outweighs the constructive one. It’s not red tinted specs, we just need to stay united and back the team. Claiming phelan is incompetent and players are shit is puzzling to say the least. You’re frustrated about tonight and so am i but the commitment to a football club is ingrained, we’ll all be back chanting for the team again. Like i said, fergie deserves to be questioned about tonight….
Defeat is painful for us, but this defeat should also serve us to bring some optimism.We need to toughen up and have another run of winning streaks before the derby, and there we must make our point and revenge for losing the title…That should be our momentum in this season.Moreover Fergie need this defeat to get his fire and passion get going….I am sad but I am here next week on this lovely blog”what doesn’t kill me will only make me stronger”
Endure*
Robbo’s red army, you do know that a few years ago we would look at Norwich away and laugh at the thought of losing to them? Not anymore which is simply pathetic.
We should have a divine right to win games like this, against a a top team i accept the fact they have talent to hurt us but against a team like Norwich? Like i said it’s pathetic and laughable they could beat us
Can soneone enlighten me when was the last time we got anything out of a game when we had Giggs & Scholes on the pitch together?
Rant –
Fucking twats on here mouthing off after one defeat, calling your own player a cunt when last season he was your biggest hero. If you’re on here calling United players cunts but you’re not a WUM then you’re be the biggest, flakiest cunt going. Just saying.
Having said that, it should’ve been a full strength team tonight and a weaker one in Turkey. Who exactly are we resting our players for? Midweek isn’t must-win so Norwich was obviously the bigger match.
Welbeck should’ve started imo. Fair enough RVP didn’t play for Holland and he’s our first choice, but he looked off the pace today and so did Hernandez. I’d have preferred them as subs if Danny wasn’t having any luck, as we know Danny causes problems when he starts games in his correct position.
Giggs and Carrick were NOT the problem either imo, the problem was Young having a particularly poor game and Valencia not performing to his own high standards.
If either winger had a better game our central midfield would’ve been fine today, but instead Evra posed our biggest threat in the (very) final third and thats not good enough with 2 wingers.
Nani this, Nani that, but theres NO F WAY Young would’ve stayed on the pitch that long if he wasn’t injured. To be fair Valencia could’ve just as easily been the one subbed if Nani was there.
So lads, bring in a replacement that doesn’t cost 30m and doesn’t want x2 the salary and THEN talk about selling Nani, but until then? Selling him for peanuts to Juve is F stupid.
Its easy to say all this in hindsight mind you – but Danny defo should’ve started after his England performance and considering Nani wasn’t an option we should’ve strengthened midfield sooner – its not like Scholes and Anderson haven’t changed games as subs already this season.
But instead, Danny came on with no wide support, Scholes came on with no wide support and only a knackered Giggs for company, and then theres Anderson. He’s pretty much our only player who runs down the centre of the pitch, but he had sod all time to make an impact, especially without the talented Cleverly alongside him, or Nani out wide to play quick 1-2′s with.
Basically we didn’t have a solid PLAN B out there today, and it showed once Norwich stood their ground.
All in all disappointed, but we’ll bounce back, its not like we haven’t got City in a few weeks. We’ll soon see how hungry the players are, as if they’re not hungry it doesn’t matter a jot what we think does it? BUT MY GOD, if Cleverley and Anderson are both fit for that match and we still start with a midfield including Scholes or Giggs im gonna jump out the fucking window.
On the bright side, at least Norwich didn’t score 2 and make the goal difference any worse, and they did deserve to win all three points as we were shite today. Simple as.
Another day, another lacklustre display. Our messiesque winger was in top form again. £15 million. No value in the market.
Do our players do anything in training?
KR – you’re basically underestimating teams because of their lack of prestige. “devine right to beat teams like norwich”? No you fucking don’t, you got to earn by displaying quality not through having big names. Football improves every year and talent has spread around wider more than ever. You’re living in coo coo land if you think any game in the premier league is easy, it’s the most competitive and most demanding. If you fail to turn up, you get punished as we’ve witnessed tonight.
When we losing while trying its fine, and with a bit of youngsters in there its fine, no body was criticizing the team vs spurs cause at least we cameback fighting and really bothered, but today nothing, that’s what baffles more
Our starting line -up was poor you could see
There was no cover at all, coupled by two totally immobile center mids as a results our strikers became isolated up top with out any service
Atleast when wazza is playing help cover up the cracks and run allover the pitch to cover those gaps left by carrick and other useless players like young
We should be happy we have rooney he really is sooo industrious and make our team tick as well as covering more spaces and tracking back, that’s something you can’t get a quarter of from carrick, only if our players were half as industrious as wazza is maybe we wouldn’t be crying for a DM
I KNOW WHY GIGSY STARTED TODAY. THIS WAS REWARD OF HIM SCORING THAT WINNING GOAL LAST SEASON. SENTIMENTAL IF YOU ASK ME
@Samuel- cheers for picking that one up I’ll get the next one.
The mug actually said “divine right”. Ain’t he heard of the fucking bastille???
samuel – united WE stand, there is failing to turn up and playing the wrong personnel. You do know that if we start a better midfield that we most likely win that game today right?
Utd till i die – agreed on danny starting. He looked bright and sharp for england and is a better player to start rather than use as an impact player. Hernandez doesn’t like it but he’s basically effective off the bench, he preys on tiring defenders.
samuel we’ve had 3 years of knowing that this midfield is pitiful however nothing has been done.i accept reconstruction is required but soon we will be sounding like wenger.unlike arsenal we do have the financial power to address this but sorry losing to spurs at home and norwich is unforgiveable.you can argue we have beaten the likes of chelsea and liverpool away but that was mainly down to hooky referees and we are top of our champs league cos the opposition have been shit.we have to either begin to start persevering with the likes of anderson cleverley and powell otherwise these lads will start to drift away and i do agree with the pogba debate.he is a talented lad coveted by ferguson yet was not given any oppurtunity to show what he can do.ive had the pleasure of watching the two greatest players the porems ever produced however its time to bid farewell to giggs and scholes and lets address the most important position of any team which is the midfield
@Lone Star Red
I agree with your comments my concern is that we are not learning from these mistakes when they occur. Fergie’s stubborn streak has served him well but lately it just feels like its beginning to be a problem for us. the more people cry about our midfield it feels the more he is likely to just keep doing exactly the same without even listening. My other concern is that with people like Phelan around him there is no alternative viewpoint and for a club of our magnititude to have an assistant as incompetent or just lacking in experience at the top level is simply unforgiveable.
People criticise Queiroz as a number 1 coach by by christ he was a brilliant number 2, we lack that ability in our managment and I feel we are struggling because of it.
@AntiScouser
Tired of your blind hate. If you would just take off your hate filled specs you would see Young actually did better than many of those on the pitch. Don’t believe me go look around the ratings by various websites
sorry prems ever produced
Players who put notable shifts during games:
Wazza
Van persie
Welbeck
Tom cleverley
Chicharito
Nani
Smalling
Rafael
Evra more less
De gea
Valencia
Anderson he tire quickly though
Kagawa…
When you start those sort of players, your atleast sure you’re going to game pace and energy, and that’s just about the right team to start against the likes of stoke, norwitch, everton an on…
That’s something the boss got totally wrong in todays match, there was no enough energy to penetrate norwich, west ham is even tougher, if we don’t improve we’ll still drop a lot of points this season mark my words
I can understand the team selection today from a historic point of view. We have always played three wide men against Norwich for as long as I can remember. I think Ferguson was trying to go with a 4 – carrick – 3 wingers – 2 strikers. Unfortunately in days of old we had Kanchelskis who was a true winger, Giggs was younger and fitter and faster and Sharp was an out and out winger.
Young I feel is a wide central man on the left side of a 4-3-3 in midfield, the same with Valencia but on the right. And Giggs no longer offers that moving from one wing to the next. So the team sheet looked like the ideas of old but the execution was not quite there. The team played more like a flat 4-4-2 and Van Persie because of this did what Rooney did all last season and came back looking for the ball. That meant Chico was double tagged and was ineffective. I honestly felt that a simple change of Wellbeck for Giggs would have fixed alot of our troubles, with Rafael coming off for either Anderson, Cleverley or Scholes. Making a 4-3-3 with Carrick, young and one of the three I mentioned and the top 3 weve been playing for most of the season. Valencia could have dropped back to RB.
I just felt we had a poor shape, it was apparent early on that the idea wasnt really being executed and it should have been changed early. The passing was also poor at times, with our quick one touch passing often needing an extra one or two touches and that stripped any momentum from our game.
Dont panic lads, if this was the FA cup Id be pissed off but its not, its a 38 game league. There will always be the unexplicable shite match that makes you scratch your head. We havent become shit over night, we will now bounce back from this with a 5 game win streak. So even if City are 1 point clear they have to get 15 from the next 15 points to stay there.
P.S. I think we will lose against the Turks on tuesday, so dont you lot go panicking now.
Utd till i die – exactly. You have to respect your opponents and earn your corn on the pitch. We can’t turn up and think united will roll teams over, clubs are getting more braver and will attack any weaknesses. Some of us could do with a bit odf humility. Today, everything went wrong, from tactics to personel. The deficiency of conceding first has come back to haunt us and we need to pull our sleeves up and be reasdy for a fight as city and chelsea are major threats. We need to play our best layers in the right system in crucial games.
KR – in hindsight, yes tge right team could have posed more of a threat but the fact is, united didn’t turn up and duly got punished. I don’t see united having the right to wipe the floor with teams, we have to prove it on the pitch.
@Marq
You almost made sense in that last post, but you just avoided it.
daniel88
how the fuck was Hernandez able to play his game when he wasnt being fed? you’re a huuuuuuuge tit for even suggesting he can’t play. you motherfucking retard.
kunal
cunt? what’d Valencia ever do to you you dumb fuck. he might not have been at his best but fuck you for the unwarranted criticism and fuck your family too. cunt. that’s right, I’m a hypocrite. cunt.
Im really hoping Young doesn’t turn into one of those players who couldn’t make the step up. When you look at his stats before he joined he was pure class without any exaggeration. He scored regularly from all over midfield and he provided assists. What more could we have wanted? The only problem was he’d never had to face the expectancy of a big Club, and for some players that can prove an insurmountable stumbling block. I backed him to make the transition, and at the start he did, but its all gone a bit flat especially after the Euro’s (despite him being England’s best player in the Qualifiers beforehand)
Im hoping Young finds some pre-United form sooner rather than later. He should be a player we rely on to grab results or assists, he’s got too much experience and talent to be putting in mediocre performances. Sort if out!
Every team know exactly our weakness, but didin’t Mr.Fergie..
If we played like these again, our season will be end like last season,
Love United win or lose, but its too hard see United lose like this.
@ Gizmoj
BINGO my friend, Quieroz ! Our tactics are very hit or miss lately ,mostly miss. That is what we have been missing for a while. Minus a midfielder and and extra defender we have the squad. But we have NOT had the tactics and have had to depend on individual brilliance to win games.
its quite simple……you buy proven top class striker you get goals ie RVP…… you dont buy a top class midfield player you get performances like today again!!!
@AntiScouser
Yes Young didnt play well, but Valencia was way worse, that was why he came off.
Makes perfect sense to me
We played badly today and lost… No complaints… We should make sure to score first rather than pass the ball around and wait for the other team to score… That’s my only complaint and as someone mentioned here, we should start the game like 0-1 down and them try to score 3 or 4 goals to win the match… Hope we learn the lesson and bounce back… Another week of sleepless nights… Hmmmm….
I am so disappointed, that I couldn’t even come here after the game so I don’t blow this out of porpotions, haven’t read any of your comments, but gotta say that
This was a big disappointment! I have said after every single match this year, that our wingers have been utter totally out of order and not good attacking wise, no matter who playes there, is it Nani Valencia or Young. I don’t get those who are happy with wingers defensive skills, when the game is decided on goals and who attacks more and scores more.
Anyway I think we misseed Wayne.
peace and let’s look to the future. Not throwing our hopes, we will get better.
We are ManUtd and we’ll do what we want!
both Valencia and Young where poor today….. they never beat their man or cross quick enough. The Norwich fullbacks had it easy
1. I don’t know what the team selection was all about tonight. We should have come out there guns blazing. Being on top of City before we meet them would give us mental advantage.
We should have saved Giggs, Scholes, Carrick for Europe.
2. Well, I think even SAF knew this was coming. We’ve had to claw our way back way too many times, and our luck’s gone out tonight. Champions can win ugly when needed. This is true, but when your ugly wins become consistent it’s time to worry. We’ve had warning signs from the first game this season.
3. @Red Neville & dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT – agree.
Absolutely agree as well. I’ve said Giggs, Scholes need to retire in PIECE, just let them fucking go.
We need to start using Anderson and Cleverly as much as possible TO ANSWER THE QUESTION of whether they are our midfield future. I just have this horrible feeling that we’ll be here again end of season still in the dark, wondering the same thing.
4. We’ve started this horrible trend of passing majority of the ball to Valencia. This shows absolute lack of creativity in the midfield. It’s so scripted, it’s killing us. Especially considering that Valencia is not having a good season this time around, I’m buffled why we keep relying on him in almost every attack. As soon as he gets the ball, he absolutely KILLS the temp, our forwards get in the box and then track back and then go in again because he stalls on the ball.
I really hope we buy this January – NO it’s not because we lost one game, it’s because of the huge potential of us coming out empty handed again.
James Rodriguez – Replace Nani
Victor Wanyama – Replace Scholes/Giggs/Carrick
Experienced Central Defender – We need the Vidic presence, someone to take charge of the defence, to have Smalling/Evens partner. With Rio most likely heading out, and Vidic (love this guy to death) most likely never really recovering to his former immensity, we need this addressed as well, or we’ll be completely undone in Europe especially.
my fear is that in jan we will get the same old no value in the market and im happy with the squad nonsense.however if we start our young midfielders and give them a chance i would be happy ie cleverley anderson and even powell.scouse shite are playing youngsters and they will make mistakes but they bring a freshness to the team.when i see scholes and giggs legends in their own rights it suggests to me theres no progression.you could see norwich looked at giggs and carrick and thought yeah a victory is a possibility.experience is priceless but i worry this is having a negative effect.i pray ferguson sorts this cos if city keep their heads this is their title for a second consecutive year and thats a nightmare i dread!
I cant remember the last time we steam rolled an opposition……it must be at least 3 or 4 seasons ago
i got some stick for saying thiis last season,but welbeck is the worst finisher to ever wear the red of utd…heck even forlan was a better finisher…therefore bringing him on to make an impact is a no no as u know he just wont score….especially with a pathetic header like that at the end,granted his link up play is good..other thn that hes poor
we need to stop passing every attack to valencia,its too predictable,and teams have sussed it…just look back at our games recently,all attacks have been passed to valencia,and he has suffered from it…
giggs should retire,scholes is a better option,but from the bench only or in a 3 man midfield..
anderson is probably thinking what do i have to do to get a game,had a blinder against chelsea in the cup and got benched too!
@Proverb – “if we don’t improve we’ll still drop a lot of points this season mark my words”
No Shit.. like I said after the the first two games and got stoned for it..
“If we don’t improve massively, we will struggle for top 4″ We’ve had some individual brilliance get us out of some real shit way too many times so far.
Valencia has been poor for a while. One-dimensional. Ash young did fairly better IMO. The defence was OK. Midfield was crap – and most of us were quite expecting it on seeing the line-up- just like 1st half vs spuds.
The real question is what game was fergie saving ando and clevz for? Midweek champs league? If he must get giggsy playing time, he coulda used the midweek game FFS!!
Guttted… but will try and sleep it off.. just hope fergie will play play either of Cleverley or ando beside carrick … Hav a gut feeling will go top next week ! … Night
@zigoo – Oh oh.. you’ve said something against Wellbeck.. You’re about to get stoned by Samuel and co. called a mussive cunt, not a united supported, some one who plays football manager, etc etc or whatever shit that is..
@ziggo – “.i pray ferguson sorts this cos if city keep their heads this is their title for a second consecutive year and thats a nightmare i dread”
I have the same exact night terrors..
It was crucial that we went out with the strongest team possible over the next few games and played like we want the title back before we meet City..
Adam says:
@zigoo – Oh oh.. you’ve said something against Wellbeck.. You’re about to get stoned by Samuel and co. called a mussive cunt, not a united supported, some one who plays football manager, etc etc or whatever shit that is..
@pablo – “.i pray ferguson sorts this cos if city keep their heads this is their title for a second consecutive year and thats a nightmare i dread”
I have the same exact night terrors..
It was crucial that we went out with the strongest team possible over the next few games and played like we want the title back before we meet City
The really sad thing was, before the game started, you could see all the comments here worrying about the middle of the park with Giggs in there. And everyone’s fear has been realised. Makes you wonder the mindset of the oppositions, must be a real boost to their confidence seeing Giggs there. So why do we insist on playing Giggs there? Only Sir Alex will know. We are leaking goals anyway, we are getting overrun anyway, so why not just play Ando & Clev anyway?
Love Giggs to bits, but he would really do himself & everyone a favour by retiring. We can’t move forward when he keeps hanging around. Ronaldo came to us, everyone said he was a one trick pony, diver, selfish player. We stuck by him and kept throwing him in, even at the expense of RvN, and the result was the World Player of the Year. Why can’t we do the same for Clev & Ando?
Let me ask some of you an honest question? Do you think that Scholesy and Giggsy being shown up in midfield every matchday by lads who are not fit to lace their boots is adding to their legacy? IT IS NOT. These lads have put in so much work and effort for this team and do not deserve to keep being outrun by younger lads. It would not do United ANY harm to cut down on their playing time dramatically or just have them retire in peace.
Let me ask some of you an honest question? Do you think that Scholesy and Giggsy being shown up in midfield every matchday by lads who are not fit to lace their boots is adding to their legacy? IT IS NOT. These lads have put in so much work and effort for this team and do not deserve to keep being outrun by younger lads. It would not do United ANY harm to cut down on their playing time dramatically or just have them retire in peace.
@Marq “So why do we insist on playing Giggs there? Only Sir Alex will know. We are leaking goals anyway, we are getting overrun anyway, so why not just play Ando & Clev anyway?”
Seentimental reasons? Statistical reason? Who the fuck knows..
I bet City are hoping to see the same line up against them next month.
Not to put all the blame on the CM but there is a pattern. Here are the starting CM pairings for the PL matches so far:
Everton; CARRICK, SHCOLES, GIGGS
Spurs: SCHOLES, CARRICK
Norwich: CARRICK, GIGGS
Arsenal: CARRICK CLEVERLY
Chelsea: CARRICK CLEVERLY
Fulham: CLEVERLY ANDERSON
Southampton: CARRICK CLEVERLY
Newcastle: CARRICK CLEVERLY
Wigan: SCHOELS, CARRICK, GIGGS
Liverpool: CARRICK, GIGGS
Aston Villa: CARRICK, SCHOLES
Stoke: CARRICK, SHCOLES
There are some common denominators in the ones we have lost or struggled in, though a proper analysis should also mention those matches where substitutions made a difference. But the overall conclusion (based on results not emotion) is that any combination of Carrick, Scholes, Giggs as starting CMs presents problems.
But as many have said this is not simply a problem from this year, remember the 2011 Champions league final (Carrick, Giggs). So for some reason Sir Alex seems to have faith in these pairings. Let’s not disrespect the boss when voicing our frustrations but it is clear our faithful heroes, Scholes and Giggs are pass their sell by dates, especially with Cleverly and Anderson waiting in the wings. They can be effective substitutes but not the bedrock of your CM. But who knows we might all be eating our words at the end of the season as Sir Alex often has the last laugh, but somehow that seems a stretch this time.
@tom c
“how the fuck was Hernandez able to play his game when he wasnt being fed?”
Exactly, same with RVP…
Bilbao getting thrashed by Madrid, now it’s the time to start doing something for Iker Muniain.
Not saying who we should sell or what, but Iker Muniain for me is a priority for us! Can’t say anything aboyt Rodriguez cause haven’t seen him play.
At the moment we lack of technique football that total football style.
Of course our never die attitude has this season already given us UNFORGETTABLE moments, but I bet we always knew that, it won’t last long, no team can come every team from behind even though we are ManUtd.
Won’t write us off, NEVER, and get out of porpotions with my comments, we all know that SAF makes a gambling when he plays Giggsy in the middle, but somehow he doesn’t realise it, so we have to just accept that untill the time SAF retires, we have to expect those things, and just try to live with it.
United we STAND!
@Major
“But who knows we might all be eating our words at the end of the season as Sir Alex often has the last laugh, but somehow that seems a stretch this time”
Yes.. I think he would be having a laugh it it wasn’t for the City/Chelsea presssing for the top..
Also, both of these teams are VERY likely to pruchase more power in January, so it’ll become even MORE crucial
@WeAreUnited.
Rodriguez is class, he’s like Nani on his best day, but consistent
And apparently, SAF still believes he’s closing the gap on Barcelona – Haha. Laughable to put it mildly. Heaven forbid he fields this sorry excuse of a MF in the knockout stages of the UCL if we were to meet one of the heavyweights or favorites ( Barca,Madrid, Bayern, even Dortmund ) it will be a slaughter, a slaughter. Mark my words.
@WeAreUnited “so we have to just accept that untill the time SAF retires, we have to expect those things, and just try to live with it”
If SAF were to retire end of season and Pep, Mourinho, or whoever else took over, what changes do you think immediately would be made to personnel/lineups- enough said.
You would see how much sentiment SAF must feel for a few of our players, no other way to explain it.
@ adam you talk sense matey.sick of defending the indefensible.this is a poor man united team that wins due to individual brilliance that wins games we dont deserve to or poor referees.we play well for approx 10 mins per game if we’re lucky.it hurts me saying that i get no pleasure in voicing these “negative views”.i’ll get about 2 hours sleep tonight devastated we have lost cos i fucking care…..i personally dont really rate cleverley or anderson but lets give them a chance and stop picking predictable teams that the opposition can work out in seconds………..performances must improve rapidly or it could be another summer of watching those blue cunts rubbing our noses in it again
Well Adam, for starters, they could make an effort to get de rossi from roma who looks very likely to leave. THAT is a priority for us right now. This pathetic mf we have now won’t last the season.
The worst part of this shambles is that it seems like SAF is blatantly just ignoring the midfield altogether. You look at that bench and think to yourself why Cleverley isn’t starting? Anderson is a fucking enigma. Seems to do ok when he gets a chance and would add so much of that mobility and youthful aggressiveness that we so lack at the moment but SAF won’t play him. The wing play has been atrocious for some time now but it is the only way SAF knows how to play. It’s 4-4-fucking-2 and nothing else. It isn’t very hard to defend against us when it is so clear that we just pass the ball to the wings and pray to God that someone can put in a cross. Kagawa said it, why always play the ball to the wing? SAF needs to change our tactics, because right now the sure as hell aren’t working. I do wonder i anyone on that bench has every questioned SAF’s decisions or tried influences his tactics in any way. It is so fucking clear every single game where it goes wrong but we still line up in exactly the same way over and over again. It’s bloody frustrating.
okey @Adam thanks, if he’s like that, I like Nani very much and would never trade him off, just give him more love from the managers.
Anyway if he’s mroe consistent then of course go for him next season.
But speaking for this game and season, I think we missed Wayne Rooney today and even though we have gotten some amazin and spectacular results from coming behind,
We are missing our “Cazorla” “Silva” “Mata”, tadaaaa _> Shinji Kagawa.
We need to put Kagawa to the left, BUT, not like a winger!! but like Silva and Mata plays for their teams.
Kagawa and Rooney behind RVP, and I point this out, we have to bring the best out of Nani, who plays so well with Kagawa. We need Nani, like it or not, we need a gamechanger.
I hope Kagawa comes after the injury like a new, after new, transfer
if you get what I mean. We have to bring the best of him, and the team should trust on him even if he has 3 players on his back, just PASS him. Trust him. That’s why Nani is out of form the team doesn’t trust him, and Nani gets it, and then it’s hard to play.
I have been there when playing myself, and it’s not a nice feeling, have to say, no matter how good I was.
Fresh Kagawa and a fresh Nani is all we need, and FFS put Cleverley or Ando ON!
Ando is not injured, that has been the case for him not playing past seasons, now he’s ok, same with Clevz, COM’OOOON!
God forbid that anyone can possibly see Anderson as any kind of saviour,there are a number of players I would like to see out the door and he is top of the list.That is one useless fuck.
We are missing our “Cazorla” “Silva” “Mata”, tadaaaa _> Shinji Kagawa.,,,,,,,,,,don t think so and Nani is poor as well
O i hate us, the way we play, this season…it isn t start yet and i already hate it and cant wait the end. i will get heart attack. we struggle all season and i dont see the end of that. the way we olay it is a miracle how we are at the ‘top’ of the table
@parryheid
nobody said he’s a saviour, if that would have been the case he wouldn’t be coming of the bench,
BUT,
When he’s playing so well and is not injured, not saying SAF doesn’t see the team train, but sometimes gameplay is more important than the training ground game, some people plays better in the game thatn in trainings.
Just assesing that, why, when the lad is not injured and playing very well, is not playing more. When you see something is going wrong we should make a change by bringing fresh fast legs, that Ando and Clevz posses.
For me the defeat was a disappointment, but it isn’t a world breaker for me, we are second, we have a good team, good squad and the best manager alive, and the season is in it’s beginning, so no worries for me.
Just saying that, try something else, we NEED Kagawa and Nani back on for and out of injury! Same with Clevz and Ando, we need them playing, like it or not!
@georgejoseph
whatever keeps you strong mate and delsuional, then keep it up
tell me why Kagawa best player of Germany and winner of the bundesliga is not our “Cazorla” ? Tell me?
Arsenal and chelski and Shitty plays to their spaniards strenghts, if we could play to Kagawas strenghts, we could get our playmaker. As for Nani, if you have following United, you know what I ‘m saying, even though if you don’t like the person, you know who is a matchwinner.
peace.
@ parryheid i agree andersons fucking wank but hes probably our best midfielder…..says it all really
ONE QUESTION:
why does Fergie feel the need to play the same midfield that gets overrun pretty much every game?
Norwich weren’t even playing a pressing game today and they made short work of us.
I am baffled. I’m not even cheesed about the loss, i am worried about the future because i know that for the next 20 or so games the squad sheet will read:
Giggs, Scholes, Carrick or any variation as long as it includes 2 of them.
why the fuck.
had he played someone like Petrucci, and we lost the game, nobody could criticize.
But this is insanity! INSANITY I TELLS YA
We have no midfielders, get rid of Pogba (one of the best up and coming midfielders) and bring back Scholes.
Fergie…what the fuck, i repeat, what the fuck.
Oh and fuck everyone who defends Carrick. Never was United material, never will be.
Fucking useless.
Out of all the passes he made, two were forward passes and two of them ended up being misplaced.
Fuck Carrick.
Valencia is woeful with his crossing.
Nani is bad eh?
Nani is a doctor of football for both Valencia and Young..
all in all
FUCK YOU
First prize goes to anyone who can say when giggs last had a good game for us. To start him in away game (against a team that turned arsenal over) is fucking baffling.
Atm it’s like Fergie has a supercar, but he’s using it as a tractor. Tactical ineptitude one would expect from Redknapp or some other English manager stuck in the hoofball era of 4-4-2.
@shankthecitizen
I laughed at this so much, not in a bad way
:
“Nani is bad eh?
Nani is a doctor of football for both Valencia and Young..”
I know we’re mad and upset but that was funny, made my day haha
The thing with Anderson is, I can’t help but think if he was at any other top European club, one of two things would have happened by now. 1, He would have either fully proven himself or been moved on. 2. He would have been put on a program to lose a stone and get properly fit so he wasn’t collapsing after 70 mins of a game.
In Anderson’s defense though, being a fringe player and playing so infrequently, he never gets properly match fit – even if he was a stone lighter and was in tip-top shape. To see him at his best, he would be a stone lighter – and played consistently as a starter for at least 7-8 games. But it will never happen.
There are days when you hold your hands up and say; We were out played or they were the better team on the day, or in most top team cases….we were unlucky. These are not the excuses we c\an use.
Spuds, Everton and Norwich was all down to the manager. Wrong team, time and again. We should be miles clear at the top.
If you want cold hard facts, the premiership has been slipping as a league since Ronaldo left. The competition has let us win titles since 08 we couldn’t have won seasons before. Arsenal of the late 90′s are better than Citeh.
Our closest opposition had off seasons and it papered the cracks. You could say the other teams have got better, but our performances in Europe, as well as Citehs show this league isn’t as strong as it was.
Look at Dortmund, remember when we played like that? It seems a long time ago. The energy, the speed and quick ball seems like a distant dream.
We can all get upset over one result, I’m prone to over reacting. We are not a million miles away, we could win the league. What is clear, this team is not moving forward. How can it when the manager won’t move on from tactics and team selections that USED to work.
SAF is 70, he’s got more in him. But he’s like my Grandad was, telling the same old stories like they have never been told before. I want us to win the title because we TOOK IT, we were the better team. Well, last season, Citeh were the better team. We just ground the results, we were consistent, just like this season, but we all know come derby day….the sensible money is on them.
Just finished watching the Real madrid game and it saddened me more. It doesnt matter who is the manager, if you have the right players, thats all you need. Madrid has the right players for every position in the team. Even their youth team players are much better than United’s. If United is not buying the stars and is supposed to be developing world class talents, then what does that say about players like Macheda, who is rubbish or Pogba who left because we would rather play 39 and 38 year olds. I just wonder in which direction the club is going? what is the plan to compete at the same level as other europen giants?
What I like about anderson is that he tries someethng different in his passing. He tries throughballs that if they do go and reach RVP /Hernandez game over. He looks for passes other than out wide to valencia which scholes/carrick/even now Rooney does cnstantly.(Speaking of, seems like Rooney is trying to do a scholes and do pinpoint 30yard passes like its a carnival and you win a toy if you succeed – he’s capable of more than that, has the drive, and ability and vision to do more)
Having said that, andersons passes fail lots, but maybe he could be more successful if he played more. He needs to play lots to show us whether he “has” it or not.(
Kagawa is same, he’s moving around looking for passes he can receive whether there are two people on him or not, but instead we again look for Valencia.
Now, I wouldn’t really be tormented by seeing us go wide as much constatntly we we had a player whoe can provide excellent service into the box, butd that’s just been embarrasing.
I will say this: City Retaining their Title this year will bring about the needed changes we’ve all spoke about. Don’t see anything happening until then.
Well, according to Berbatov, Fergie told him there was no point in him hanging around at OT because they wanted to bring in a faster, more dynamic style of play. The fact that we are still patiently, gradually trying to maneuver the ball up the pitch, like a 1980′s Italian team makes you think that it could only have been an excuse to get Berba off the payroll.
@Icecube
I agree, very much with everything you said besides that the premierleague has slipped since 2008, for me it has gotten better. Juts that some teams are in transition and surprise surprise we are also, ans still managed to win tittles.
But that being said, you point out some very good things.
I went to our website and a guy had put a nice comment. To remind those that ask:
Is this a good United team?? The guy answered with the nick of
HE said:
“89cruefan2″, maybe someone of you can recognise yourself
I would say yes
2nd in the PL with 1 point less then top, scored most goals in the league, beaten Arsenal, Chelsea at SB for the 1st time since 2002, Liverpool at Anfield for the first time in 5 years, top the group and through to the next round of the CL with 2 games to spare.
However regardless of a good team or not, bad team selections and tactics like today can still occur.
Just remember that!
fergie got to go
@WeAreUnited Nani is the most annoying player. Yes he can show moments of magic, but most often his decision making is poor. As for Kagawa he is too light weight
@george
I get your point, this season Nani has been annoying, I admit even I like him more than the others. but we have also Young who has that decisionmaking problem, but I’m not slating him? hardly anyone. Our wingers have been poor all season long.
And as for the lightweight thing and also the inconsistent thing for Nani, is a bit shitty excuse, is Silva heavyweight or Xavi, Iniesta, Messi? Mata? Cazorla? Maybe he needs more strength, of course, the EPL needs that but it’s not the priority.
So better come with a better argument. peace mate.
Maybe now you realise.
I want to put this comment once again, cause I think people should realise this.
But speaking for this game and season, I think we missed Wayne Rooney today and even though we have gotten some amazin and spectacular results from coming behind,
We are missing our “Cazorla” “Silva” “Mata”, tadaaaa _> Shinji Kagawa.
We need to put Kagawa to the left, BUT, not like a winger!! but like Silva and Mata plays for their teams.
Kagawa and Rooney behind RVP, and I point this out, we have to bring the best out of Nani, who plays so well with Kagawa. We need Nani, like it or not, we need a gamechanger.
I hope Kagawa comes after the injury like a new, after new, transfer
if you get what I mean. We have to bring the best of him, and the team should trust on him even if he has 3 players on his back, just PASS him. Trust him. That’s why Nani is out of form the team doesn’t trust him, and Nani gets it, and then it’s hard to play.
I have been there when playing myself, and it’s not a nice feeling, have to say, no matter how good I was.
Fresh Kagawa and a fresh Nani is all we need, and FFS put Cleverley or Ando ON!
Ando is not injured, that has been the case for him not playing past seasons, now he’s ok, same with Clevz, COM’OOOON!
Sorry but what has kagawa done to be missed?. I acknowledge his talents but he’s far from proven in the premier league. He’s getting bullied and overwhelmed. Needs to get some upper body strenghth and kick on. He has to fight for his place as wel, a starting place won’t and shouldn’t be handed to him.
Adam – the team goes wide because it’s the system played. Two wingers hugging the byline and two central midfielders means the threats arrive from the wing. If you want to instigate attacks more through the middle then you play central attacking midfielders in a different system. The thing with 4-4-2 or 4.4.1.1 is you need two midfielders capable of covering every blade of grass both defensively and attacking wise. Scholes and carrick can ping passes about but they lack dynamism and drive. 4.4.2 in my opinion is out-dated and flat in my opinion but for united to revert to a more fluid system then united need to implement it consistently for a couple of seasons and the right playmakers have to be played. In the norwich game though, united played the wrong personnel along with not turning up equals getting punished. Simple as
“shankthecitizen says:
ONE QUESTION:
why does Fergie feel the need to play the same midfield that gets overrun pretty much every game?
Norwich weren’t even playing a pressing game today and they made short work of us.
I am baffled. I’m not even cheesed about the loss, i am worried about the future because i know that for the next 20 or so games the squad sheet will read:
Giggs, Scholes, Carrick or any variation as long as it includes 2 of them.
why the fuck.
had he played someone like Petrucci, and we lost the game, nobody could criticize.
But this is insanity! INSANITY I TELLS YA
We have no midfielders, get rid of Pogba (one of the best up and coming midfielders) and bring back Scholes.
Fergie…what the fuck, i repeat, what the fuck.
Oh and fuck everyone who defends Carrick. Never was United material, never will be.
Fucking useless.
Out of all the passes he made, two were forward passes and two of them ended up being misplaced.
Fuck Carrick.
Valencia is woeful with his crossing.
Nani is bad eh?
Nani is a doctor of football for both Valencia and Young..
all in all
FUCK YOU”
I would worry more about getting your mental state checked, more so than questioning carrick’s competency. I would agree about giggs shouldn’t start games but you need help.
it is the only way SAF knows how to play. It’s 4-4-fucking-2 and nothing else”
A man has been at the top fo so long and only knows one way to play which is pretty much a load of bollocks. Fergie has been open and has played various systems, mostly in the CL but forgive a man reverting to the recipe which has brought tasty sucess.
Adam says:
@zigoo – Oh oh.. you’ve said something against Wellbeck.. You’re about to get stoned by Samuel and co. called a mussive cunt, not a united supported, some one who plays football manager, etc etc or whatever shit that is..”
No one is stoning anyone but if you and zingo the bongo can’t see the obvious, which is the fact that welbeck is into his 2nd proper season at united and is still developing then what else is there to say. The talent and technical ability is all there, all he lacks at the moment us that clinical finish. He’ll improve it by more training and learning, the composure will come. People like you and your brigade pile unnecessary pressure on developing players, exoecting them to be zidane straight away. Thankfully you are no,where ever being near the area in which decisions on who makes and who doesn’t are made.
The midfield combinations that started in our defeats against Tottenham and Norwich were the exact same combinations that started in our defeats against City and Wigan at the end of last season. Maybe it will take 4-5 more losses before Fergie gets the point.
And no I won’t say “why oh why did we let Pogba leave” (as if he was the messiah), but you do have to wonder what he saw and left. If I was him and realized that I’d have to wait until Scholes and Giggs turned 50 and retired, I would have second thoughts about staying too.
One thing to add about Carrick that during the whole game he tried 5 (five) long range passes, which were so off that nobody followed up to even recover them, meaning the ball was just kicked with a power to the general direction of a red shirt (Stoke style)…how can anyone defend this? I mean anyone to wants to, need to go and see those passes and try to defend it. The guy has 0 assist and 0 goals the whole season so don’t even try to say that “at least he tries”. He has been useless for the most of the part he played for us, but such a wasteful approach from a limited payer like him is just unacceptable.
Still can’t believe that we lost in such a pathetic manner. BTW anyone who thinks that SAF will learn from his mistakes is in dreamland. I respect the man too much to badmouth him, but SAF will not change I hope I am wrong, but if I am right prepare for more suffering.
Orez – your point noted. “no goals “, no assists” but what is carrick’s main role? Is he there to bring dynamic play, bomb forward and create or is he there to be efficient and be a platform for more attacking minded players to thrive. That’s the issue, people need to see what carrick is actually good at and judge him on his strenghts, not demanding he be the player some have the agenda for him to transform into. He’s been at the club for 5+ years and has played regularly in the highs and lows of the club, he must be doing something which can’t be seen by those that fail or lack the willingness to see it. Carrick gets highlighted because the midfielder alongside him, giggs for example fail to really spark something through the middle. The right blend of midfielders is important and to get the best of what carrick offers (and not what you want him to turn into) the right dynamix needs to be played with him.
Orez – your point noted. “no goals “, no assists” but what is carrick’s main role? Is he there to bring dynamic play, bomb forward and create or is he there to be efficient and be a platform for more attacking minded players to thrive. That’s the issue, people need to see what carrick is actually good at and judge him on his strenghts, not demanding he be the player some have the agenda for him to transform into. He’s been at the club for 5+ years and has played regularly in the highs and lows of the club, he must be doing something which can’t be seen by those that fail or lack the willingness to see it. Carrick gets highlighted because the midfielder alongside him, giggs for example fail to really spark something through the middle. The right blend of midfielders is important and to get the best of what carrick offers (and not what you want him to turn into) the right dynamic player needs to be played with him.
This has been coming. We have not been playing well in MF or Wings all season, the strikers saved us and the defence was OK today.
I have to say I don’t understand why Anderson and Scholes/Cleverly did not start. Love Ryan, but he is last 10 min sub if that, can’t see him going another year. There was zero pace in MF. Zero creativity or good play from wingers. What is up with Valencia?
NANI!!!!! We need you.
Norwich could read our passes and game all day long. Easy peasy. Bad off day for Carrick. He needs more rotation.
2 word- FUCK up!!!!!
2 word- FUCK up!!!!!
@samuel
I understand your point and I sort of see why we might think this, but his wastefulness in unacceptable. If it’s not his job to try those passes then he shouldn’t. Wasting possession like that hardly helps the cause. Other mids were as bad as him, but at least they all have some contribution. If his roll is to just get the ball in the middle and pass it to Valencia, then anyone can do and I would prefer that someone with a longer range passing or a good shot or someone faster would take up the roll. Giggs was as bad as him, but Giggs is old and we all know it. What is excuse? I am just saying that I would expect much more from a CM in United who plays so regularly
@Samuel
Well said about Carrick. And as ineffective as he’s perceived to be going forward, thank God at least he’s around to clean up some of the defensive mess we get ourselves into each week.
disappointed to say the last about todays result, think it highlights the lack of creativity in the team when Rooney is missing, if we are to go on and win the league this year we need that spark in midfield to open a game up for us. we need a world class midfielder ASAP!!
But the trouble is, the strategic benefits of Carrick are complicated by Scholes and Giggs. Carrick is a jogger, the man jogs through the entire game, and if you pair a ‘jogger’ with the increasingly geriatric legs of Scholes or Giggs we have a problem.
We were lucky with two of the goals that got us back in the game last week, this could easily have been consecutive defeats for us, carry on like this and we are going to end up losing eight games by the end of the season. City might get to Xmas undefeated – half way point – no defeats. They don’t look in danger of losing, and they haven’t even got in gear yet!
Orez – fair enough. I agree carrick can be,wastefu and that’s him at his worst. Normally, he’s economical and efficient with the ball and reads the game well. On his off days (he’s only human) then he can look a passenger. last night was exactly that. All i’m saying is, the right midfielder needs to be paired with him, so he can solely focus on his role. I also think he plays far too many games, which brin Orez – your point noted. “no goals “, no assists” but what is carrick’s main role? Is he there to bring dynamic play, bomb forward and create or is he there to be efficient and be a platform for more attacking minded players to thrive. That’s the issue, people need to see what carrick is actually good at and judge him on his strenghts, not demanding he be the player some have the agenda for him to transform into. He’s been at the club for 5+ years and has played regularly in the highs and lows of the club, he must be doing something which can’t be seen by those that fail or lack the willingness to see it. Carrick gets highlighted because the midfielder alongside him, giggs for example fail to really spark something through the middle. The right blend of midfielders is important and to get the best of what carrick offers (and not what you want him to turn into) the right dynamix needs to be played with him. I also think he plays far too many games, which brings its own demands physically and mentally. We don’t have enough players competing in that engine room, possible complacency has creeped up and new fresh energy and variety there, competing fiercely like our strikers are doing which has resulted in better performances. Personally, i say we throw our eggs in one basket and give the likes of nick powell, kagawa, anderson, cleverley regular playing times. They’re all dynamic, some of them are very creative, we need to take the risk, the cautious mentality of running back to the experience of legends has to be eradicated.
Orez – fair enough. I agree carrick can be,wastefu and that’s him at his worst. Normally, he’s economical and efficient with the ball and reads the game well. On his off days (he’s only human) then he can look a passenger. last night was exactly that. All i’m saying is, the right midfielder needs to be paired with him, so he can solely focus on his role. I also think he plays far too many games, which brings its own demands physically and mentally. We don’t have enough players competing in that engine room, possible complacency has creeped up and new fresh energy and variety there, competing fiercely like our strikers are doing which has resulted in better performances. Personally, i say we throw our eggs in one basket and give the likes of nick powell, kagawa, anderson, cleverley regular playing times. They’re all dynamic, some of them are very creative, we need to take the risk, the cautious mentality of running back to the experience of legends has to be eradicated.
Don’t get the flak Carrick is getting. Whenever he is paired with Giggs, he is expected to do 2 man’s job. Passing it forward and staying back to cover. So is it his fault that Giggs offers nothing going forward and backwards? Norwich played 3 man in central midfield, we effectively had 1 man there. Giggs was as good as making up the numbers in there. Scholes is at least better that he offers a forward pass, but he too stays in a position where he is neither defending or attacking.
Our midfield has been crying out loud for some energy for what? 3~4 years? And now that almost all of us have given up on getting a new man there, could we at least see the newbies thrown in? Yes Anderson might only last 60mins, but at least by then the job could be done and dusted. With a game that is dead wood in midweek, what the hell was Anderson left on the bench for?
The most disappointing part is that we deserve to lose, there is no shame in losing if we threw the kitchen sink at them and still can’t score. If you look back to even 2 seasons back, the games we lost, we lost deservedly. Previously only Barca could do that to us, make us look like we deserved the lost, now even freaking Everton, Wigan and Norwich can do that to us.
All the talk about how we are comeback kings, that we are scoring freely, is just masking the problem. A simple look at the goal difference column tells the whole story
Please for God’s sake, Giggs, please force Sir Alex’s hand and retire, stop ruining your legacy. We love you, but sometimes the best thing to do for each other is to part company
Arthur “van Two Sheds” Jackson
Firstly, his goals/per minute played as a sub is phenomenal. He doesn’t get much of the ball anyways. His job is to use his speed to harass defenders and break away into gaps and beat the offside trap. His chances of doing that are much better when he comes in anywhere between the 60th and 90th minute when defenders are already quite tired and Chicha’s packing with speed and power.
Costas – exactly. Carrick’s role in the team is crucial, his absence sure opens up gaps. I think a player like him is more appreciated on the continent, he’d be marveled at if he was rolling out in la liga.
One thing i also want to say is, giggs ans scholes have massively coontributed to the club and they love the club but that has its negatives, it can cloud their judgement and give them the assumption that they can roll out in the red shirt for long. Let’s be honest, fergie as ruthless he is, (maybe mellowing a little now) still has slight sentiments towards them as their recent form and productivity has not warranted any starting place. Scholes and giggs need to force fergie’s hands, they need to realise their influence has waned and they simply aren’t and can’t take the team forward. We need them both to move aside and clear the pathway for burgoening talents, they both need to see that united and the manager relying on their experience is not helping the team. As difficult as it may be, both have to hang up thw boots, stay on the sidelines and teach up and coming central midfielders.
Samuel
You got it right about carrick but yesterday his passing was poor. Not one single killer pass by him. We need carrick to perform great when we play against better quality opponents. He needs to pass correctly. Same with valencia. I don’t know what has happened to him. I hope he sorts it out. And also we are missing Kagawa. He may not have proved himself but he would have done well yesterday.
Overall yesterday’s defeat was painful. We could have avoided that. More than team selection the substitution made by Sir alex was baffling. Hernandez should have stayed on. Like many pointed out whenever giggs start we loose. As much as I hate and laugh at liverpool they are doing a fine job by promoting their youngsters. This selection is not helping anyone. I really hope kagawa is back ASAP.
I hope the likes of powell and some other youngsters get chance to play in remaining two european games. I would be shocked if I see Scholes or Giggs plaaying this midweek.
Marq – valencia is probably suffering from a lack of confidence. Ge has missed sitters lately, he has become more hesitant when clearly, at his best, he’s devastating when direct. The sooner he tries to complicate things, he gets found out. He’s a physical specimen and has pace to burn, direct should be the way forward for him. I don’t think he’s technically gifted enough to be more flexible but you know what you’ll get from him. I would say all united wingets have been off colour this season, we certainly need them to step their game up or plan A is pretty much in tatters. We also need to give nani support, i know he can frustrate but tgat guy is a match winner and you don’t find many of them.
Agreed on the younger players getting games in the last two CL games. I know galatasaray at home can be fired up, the atmosphere can be nervy but i say throw the likes of powell, anderson and cleverley in, let them all 3 combine in a meaningless game anyway and we can see glimpses of what they can offer, we could even bring tunnicliffe and cole for the experience for the two CL games. I can see fletch starting that though but scholes and giggs should be left out, united just need that injection of fresh dynamic energy in that central role, at least the two games should be used as a stepping stone towards this, i guess it will depend on the manager. I agree that the defeat is difficult to take but you learn from moments like this, more so than when you win. I just hope the 3 defeats don’t come back and haunt us at the end of the season, this is an unforgiving league.
Shit!!!.. that reply was to Ash. Ha.
Actually I wish it was the othe way round
Giggs and Scholes, partnering Tunni or Powell to play in the remaining CL games, whilst Anderson, Cleverley, Fletcher play in the PL.
@Saad
I agree for the most part with what you have to say regarding Hernandez’s “super sub” role. He is good enough to start every game for practically any other club, but with the strike force we have at our disposal, we have the luxury to bring him on late–which, as you say, best puts to use what he brings to the table.
Still, I can’t help but interpret you bringing up the “starter vs. super sub” debate as a subtle dig at Chico’s performance today. And, as I’ve mentioned ad naseum on this thread, that’s hardly fair to him. He was starved for service all game long!
Perhaps I’m wrong about what you wrote. In fact, I probably am; I have a track record of being wrong on most things.
Samuel
Yeah we need to support Nani. He on his day is as deadly as silva and Mata. We are badly missing a player like silva and mata and I feel either Nani or Kagawa could be like them for us. When Nani is fit I hope he gets regular starts. We should not be over dependent on rooney or RVP. We should always have Plan B.
Like RIO said it is pointless on who is on top of the table before Christmas. I can’t see us dropping 8 points lead again this season . City like chelsea will drop points. Battering villa 5-0 at home is not that great a task. Let us see how they perform against Real madrid and chelsea this week.
To be honest the solution is pretty simple. Make everyone have to fight for their spot in the team. There are people that are just too comfy and it is affecting their performances. Valencia is a a good example he has been below par the last three games. Nani in my mind is STILL our best winger. Fine he is making some unrealistic demands but this does not mean that we should completely alienate him.
I would Also love to see players play in their natural positions again. This means Rooney up top Along side van Persie. Kagawa in an attacking midfield role. And Nani and Valencia battling it out for the other attacking midfield spot.
Another thing. What the hell happened to Ashley Young? I still remember his Villa days when he used to rip defences apart. He used to beat his man, could use both legs, eye for goal. He has lost EVERYTHING since he joined United. Refuses to put the ball on his left leg unless absolutely forced to do so. Is scared to beat his man and plays more like a wing back than a winger. Someone needs to give him a pep talk and remind him that he cost 20 million pounds.
dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT says:
To be honest the solution is pretty simple. Make everyone have to fight for their spot in the team. There are people that are just too comfy and it is affecting their performances.
Spot on mate. How do you think players like Ando, Cleverley, etc. after all fighting their made just to see the veteran like Giggs starting and not them.
Man, what a thread.
Poor game last night. Not sussed about the result but goodness the performance was cringe worthy
Pointed out during the summer that the training needs an upgrade. We’re simply not “good enough” to play the way we’re setting up for most games. Players are off form as well – looking at you Valencia, young and most surprisingly Michael Carrick. Vally’s been piss poor in my opinion, he’s a fan favorite so I’m careful wagging my tongue at him but its safe to say he’s not quite my cup of tea when it comes to what i love seeing in a right sided winger.
Carrick needs a bit of rotation but who comes close? Simple. No one. We haven’t got a single first team player besides that possesses defensive attributes required in midfield. THAT is not an oversight ,its a genuine Fuck up. I’m not including Fletcherino because he cant be relied on.
Its ironic now that our major strengths has no room for wingers, Kagawa may not have a divine right but he’s got to feature- when he gets back.
The midfield issue is so convulated im not gonna bother too much. Truth is we have one too many wingers and midfielders . In the case of the midfielers we have the same type of midfielders – all attacking variants -Carrick included. Carrick has the xabi Alonso role and Alonso always plays with a DM or at the least a box to box player. Asking him to perform the defensive and attacking responsibilities is a tad bit unfair.
There is a lot of work to be done, getting these lads to play for each other and as a collective. I also think there’s gonna have to be some hard choices for the gaffer to make with regards his squad. Injuries happen but we’re terribly unbalanced and its affecting the team somewhat
The less said about Ashley Young the better.
slim says:
The less said about Ashley Young the better.
Ashley Young was never United material to begin with and I still believe that Villa pulled one over us by making us pay 17-18M for him. Way overpriced. Sure, at the beginning one actually may have felt he would be ok long term by his first few performances but since that knee injury he sustained last season around this time I believe he has never been the same. Still, I would give him till the end of this season to prove himself and make me eat my words but if he doesn’t perform, he’s make way for someone more technical and less fearful for taking on defenders
Fucking disgraceful performance….YET AGAIN! What the fuck is going on with this team????? Shit midfield! Carrick and giigs doesn’t work so does carrick and scholes not work! Carrick needs to get dropped! He was just chilling yesterday. Saw him walking for a lot of the game! Wake up fella! And when Rooney doesn’t play we don’t look like a team. Simples. No pace + creativity in the midfield! When will Fergie learn FFS! Its ucking frustrating! Another frustrating thing is out wingers! Valencia looks half the player of last season! What’s happened to the lad! He is shite! Utter shite! Fucks around! Doesn’t cross! Can’t cross! Absolute joke! Young is just not United class! Simples! Been saying it for aa long time now and I still feel Nani is our best winger but nobody likes the lad and every1 thinks he’s shites! On his day he’s simply unplayable! Fucking hate losing and I can’t tell u all 1 thing, if we carry on playing like we are at the minute, city will Run away with the title and there’ll be NO silverware for us this season. Disappointed in the lads! We had a great oppurtunity to extend our lead with chelsea losing yesterday but we blew it! Wake the fuck up lads or else
Why can’t cleverley and anderson start the next game with rooney as a number 10 and rvp as the striker + 2 wingers!? Now that’s the team I’d love to see take to the field against citeh! How lonbg is it going to take Fergie to fucking wake and and smell the coffee! Carrick/scholes, carrick/giggs is a disaster! Simples!
Honestly mats daehli would have done a better job than ash young last night! Sell the twig and buy bale at any cost in january if we want any chance of winning the league
And to be quite honest, I’d rather have a 30 something year old Beckham on the right wing at the moment than valencia. At least you’re guaranteed a couple quality deliveries into the box for the forwards to score goals.
I dont understand his blindness in the midfield, giggs and carrick in midfield is totally spineless, toothless, nothing to it.
seen it time and time again, why wont he play cleverly and anderson.
This line up reminded me of that day last season we lost to wigan
This was the line up
DDG
Jones Evans Ferdi Evra
Av7 Carr Giggs Young
Hernandez Rooney
That was the same midfield if I am not wrong
I agree with most sentiments here, we sacrificed fluency and creativity for Discipline and tactics. we hardly see any flair from our team of late. Nani is the only most gifted winger we still have.
Giggs playing is not his mistake, its probably SAF picking him for games.
So much for Man Utds “effort” to top the group stages of thr ucl..for what exactly? Al this to play giggs and carrick in the premier league? If saf was so adamant on giving giggs and carr sime playing time, this was the perfect time to do so and reserve cleverly amd Anderson for the league.
Saf, giggs,.scholes are legends and all that but it really is time to stop fucking about now.
Saf says he wants to atleast eclipse Liverpool’s record of 5 Ucls’s if not surpass it in the last few remaining years. Yeah, good luck with that playing this shambles of a midfield over and over.
Looks like as per normal.. we make things hard for ourselves. This team needs to go on a big run that so far this season they seem incapable of.
Too many players at this club just dont seem to have the mentality to understand what it takes to play at a club like United. They are judged against their predecessors, but thats all plart of playing for a big club.
Back in 99 we suffered 3 defeats by Xmas – Arsenal 3-0 (A), Sheff Wed 3-0 (A) and then Boro (H). Took a mammoth run. The rest of the season will define the team, however so far they have just been far too sloppy.
Dissapponted..
@MUFC Fans
I am commenting on the basis that am a football lunatic also i play professional football. My count on the football played by great MUFC(past 2 years) and other top 5 clubs…
a)Football is on the path of change. There is no way you can hit a goal by cross unless its too good and factor of luck or the team should be stoke city
b)All the teams from barca to dortmund are playing fluidic formation with no conventional players. Right now there are no players called as *wingers*..the latest player is Marcus Reus. This guy is not CF neither winger.But he is class. Sorry to the valencias and the youngs..these are kind of dying breed
c)This is the era of players like rooney,kagawa,mata,silva,hazard,iniesta,messi,modric,cazorla…to accomadate these players we NEED to SACRIFICE wing play. If you got a player like rooney GIVE him responsibility to play and exclude valencia. Why on earth we always pass to him!! He is neither david nor ronlado..FFS he is just 1-D valencia. He is good when the cross finds the team mates. Holy shit..even i can do that..try me SAF!!
d)why play paul when we have powell..why play giggs when we have cleverly/anderson..PLEASE DONT DO THIS SAF!!PLEASE..
e)Get that shit head phelan out of manchester if possible!!
f)Please don’t rotate DeGea..he is surely the future MUFC GK and spanish no1
h)Why on earth the midfielders defend with no agression and pressing.they just cover positions. Even Xavi and iniesta defend like its the last day on earth!!
i)As the last note and the most IMPORTANT..please use a player to link the ball from carrick to RVP through the middle..and play through middle. Carrick to Rooney/Kagawa to RVP..always try this..we will win the league. If the link MC-WR_RVP is perfect and well oiled success comes naturally..others should simply support and defend well..GGMU
d)
Get a proper central midfield pairing going and watch us catch fire.
The middle pairing must be 1 out of Carrick/Scholes/Giggs and another 1 out of Cleverley/Anderson/Fletcher, or 2 out of the latter trio. The moment we start with 2 out of the first trio, we are screwed
Saf obviously seems to prefer playing 39 and 38 year olds when it is clear as fuck that we need to inject pace/energy/youth into that midfield. Heck, at this rate we might as well re-sign beckham. His contract is nearing its end at la galaxy. May not have the pace needed but his crossing is a milion times better than run to the wing and cross to the invisible angels in air valencia. Either that or he keeps winning the game of tag you’re it with the oppositions full back.
get ince and keane back………….robbo might be a bet if you can drag him out of the pub………….we need energy and youth in this midfield and consistency.the players dont get to know each others game cos they are constantly being dropped or rested.
We’ve got absolutely no reason to worry. We’ve got Ashley Young, the best winger in the country, on our side. He siglehandedly carried England through the last qualifications against such footballing giants as Montenegro, Switzerland and Bulgaria.
If only we could get Milner and Barry and Downing, then we would be talking.
As for SAF, the “It just wasn’t our night” statement was pure class. I suppose the Villa, Braga and other nights were “our nights”. Pure class, keep ignoring the elephant in the room.
Anti scouser – do you ever add anything constructive? Your views are neither inspiring or have a solutiom, it’s more of a mockery. We all know young hasn’t really lived up to his pricetag but then again, i never really thoughf,he could improve united, at best he’d be a squad player if nani didn’t loze form. He’s part of the team, so let’s get on with it.
Anti scouser spot on here. The Braga game especially was truly awful. It’s becoming an effort to watch United and that saddens me to say it. I can accept defeats but I can’t stand the way we’ve been playing for 2 or 3 years now. Matt Busby used to talk about the fans working all week to watch United and they deserved to be entertained. Sure Fergie has more than spoilt us but we have been getting progressively more boring to watch with every passing year. Even bloody Chelsea are playing more entertaining football than us this season….Chelsea!
sorry but why were we playing giggs centre midfield when hes NOT a midfielder!!! You cant teach an old dog new tricks he was always a blistering winger but when it comes to centre mids we had better options on the bench with ando clevs and fletch!! A dissapointing result but would’t say i am gutted i still think we will go away to city and win dont know why just got a feeling about that one (someone has to beat them at the emptyhadd eventually)
Plus is it just me or does rvp rush his chances sometimes?? That volley scuff thing he tried yesterday i thought he could have tried to take a touch first! Plus against arsenal he had 2 chances (one a header and the other a soft shot saved my the keeper) which he could have took a touch first. I dunno maybe its just me but sometimes it looks as though he rushes his chances. Class player though and we are lucky to have him!
Hoping for a bounce back against qpr at ot. We couldn’t have wished for an easier game (on paper) coming staright after a defeat, come on lads no more defeats in the prem this calender year plzz!!
That guy needs to see a doctor. His hate for Young is borderlining obsession
I have lost faith in an old man who can,t see the wood for th trees anymore has surrounded himself with yes men and is happy to take honours such as stands and statues that should be reserved for the departed. The only reason Rafael has established himself is because jones and smelling not available – people like Nani, Anderson, cleverly need continuity and opportunity or be shipped out not sidelined for pensioners or mediocrities – all pre match analysis against Liverpool, spurs, villa,Norwich predicted the rubbish first halves – the manager gets paid 5m a year to get it wrong – time for the tap on the shoulder – its your last season – he should have gone at the end of 1011 with the scousers eclipsed – he was bereft of ideas in Ucl final that was when he should have realised time to go – it won’t happen though too many other people around him depending on him for their jobs – but for luck at Liverpool, villa, Southampton, and Chelsea we could be ten points behind
Lets not get too frustrated okay? Its a waste of time, however much Anderson and Cleverley impress in the little games they’re given, Ferguson will always start soon to be 40 year old Giggs and 38 year old Scholes ahead of them. Good on you Pogba for leaving Manchester United, good to see you impress for Juventus and i wish you nothing but success, you’d never have gotten ahead of Scholes and Giggs, enjoy playing at a club where they rate you enough to play you alongside Pirlo.
It’s fergie’s reliance on those that have “seen it and done it”. Scholes,and giggs are proven world class players bit the game is physical and both play in positions that they get exposed. Gary neville knew his time as a player was up when westbrom’s jerome thomas made chicken soup out of him. Scholes and giggs are 10times the player compared to those dominating them if you look at pure talenta, they both have graced the biggest stages in football but the advantage their opponents seem to have, which is obvious to most is the fact that they can’t cope with the rigours and hustle of football. I can see giggs using this season as a farewell, same for paul. They both know when their influence diminishes. It’s best for the club. I think fergie will then revamp the central area and give younger players the chances and opportunity to cement their place and gain authority. When gary retired, rafael stepped up. If scholes and giggs quit then players will be forced to take responsibility.
RedHound
Pirlo, what another soon to be 40 year old. Agreed he was in his day one of the best midfielders in the world but I find it difficult to except that argument when you go against the same reason earlier in your piece.
Horses for courses dear boy. He was slow and cumbersome and as far as I was concerned he was crap.- Thats not ill feeling talking thats my footballing brain. There are some players suited to one league more than another, see hard man Veron. Pogbas langrid style is suited to a league where he will get time to do what he can do rather than be pressed within miliseconds and forced into mistakes. When Pirlo does retire I can guarantee Pogba wont be propping up the Juve midfield unless they are looking for relegation.
Anyway Giggs and Scholes playing together is a rarity and was for 15 minutes yesterday. The fact of the matter is Anderson, Cleverley, Kagawa, Scholes, Carrick are all better than Pogba and are alot of our youngsters. Tunicliffe included.
Samuel, the fact Fergie snapped Scholes’s hand off when he asked him about coming back shows how much little faith he has in our current crop of centre midfielders. We are in dire straights this season and there is plenty of defeats ahead. Our champions league group shows us winning 4 out of 4 with 12 from 12 but that hides the fact we have been outplayed in all of those games by average sides. Fergie is working miracles with an average squad dotted with a few top class players like Van Persie and Rooney and Nani when he wants to play. The goal keeping situation is a concern, same as our centre backs and our left back position, not to mentions out obvious weakness in the centre of the park. Apart from that we are in good shape.
In my opinion and to be fair, that’s a load of bollocks. excluding yestetday’s abject performance, united have actually entertained without really finding a balance this season, it’s been at a cost of poor defending. Fergie has never implemented “boring” tactics, although he like any human gets tactics wrong.
You’d think the lesson had been learnt starting Giggs against Tottenham
Joffrey – why is fergie working miracles – its his squad – he has spent. 100m in last 18 months and bought only one midfielder – an 18 year old from Crewe!
No, we have been boring. I’ve been following United for 20 years and never has the tempo of our play been so slow. The fact we are still scoring doesn’t mean we are entertaining. Mourinho’s Chelsea were top scorers every season but that didn’t make them entertaining. Apart from Van Persie this season not one player has excited me. I held a season ticket for 6 years and was very lucky to hold one just as our return to the summit of English football was getting in full swing after 3 years without the title and to see Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney running riot made every fan sit on the edge of their seats. So them champions league games this season and last were entertaining in your eyes? You would pay money to watch that?
United just do enough these days. They never go and put anyone truly to the sword these days. We beat Wigan 4-0 but that flattered us! I go into games against the likes of Norwich now like yesterday fearing the worst and half expecting to get beat and you can look at my pre match post on here if you don’t believe me. It was truly an awful game of football just like Villa and Brava where we played with no urgency and no fluidity.
Jeoffrey – if fergie questioned the ability of the younger midfielders he has, he’d be ruthless and would’ve got rid of them. It’s simple, it’s fergie reverting to his tried and trusted ammunition. He knows giggs and scholes have the maturity to perform regularly, they probably are defying their age in training but there’s difference between the careful mentality in training and the searing unforgiving pace of modern football. Like i said, if they both retire then fergie will throw away old habits and make do with younger talents. He’ll stick those already in the first team and bring those on the fringes through. I think this is a case of a man relying on his trusted war horse and skeptical about a brand new one. We say all this but the younger players also have to make big steps to show they can handle responsibility, i guess in time we’ll inevitably find out but i don’t think scholes or giggs starting is a proof of younger players lacking quality but more about the manager trying his trusted recipe. What we need to see is younger players getting their chance and grabbing it, hopefully that’ll be the case.
I would hardly call any team in competitive football, let alone the champions league “average”. All european teamshave quality in abundance and they possess the bravery to showcase it. Yeah, we made hardwork of the group but it’s not as easy as turning up and battetring teams, never going to happen as the level playing field is getting nearer evety year. I think whatever we do in europe this season, probably beyond the last 16 is a bonus, i will be honest and say united aren’t the strongest of contenders but you never know, things can change in football. We need to improve, hopefully things can turn around.
You call players average but you can’t have a team of 25 superstars. You have a couple of world class talents, steo down a little and you see topclass with potential to go further, stepdiwn more and you see very good efficient ones and then you get squad players. This is not santiago bernabeu, home of expensive galacticos.
NOVEMBER 18, 2012 AT 12:45
samuel – united WE stand says:
” I can see giggs using this season as a farewell, same for paul. They both know when their influence diminishes. It’s best for the club. I think fergie will then revamp the central area and give younger players the chances and opportunity to cement their place and gain authority. When gary retired, rafael stepped up. If scholes and giggs quit then players will be forced to take responsibility.”
I really hope this is their last season. it is really sad that people who loved giggsy and scholes also want them to retire. Honestly not a nice way to go. It would be great if they leave with trophies. It would be nice if Ando/clev cement their place in midfield this season. I don’t want the same situation like it is now with ando and clev at the start of next season. Our striking departments looks great. Add henriques to that we have deadly striking force with us. We need to sign atleast one quality central defender and then our defence would also be good for future. It would be better if we gradually phase out Rio also. He has been playing good this season but we have to find our next defensive combination. The problem lies in Midfield. I want to see how kagawa perform. Now kagawa would be very key for our success. If he fulfills his hype and becomes our mata or silva then we have half the problem solved. If not then we need to buy quality midfielders. But I have faith in kagawa. He has already scored 2 goals in his 6 appearance so he has the ability to score 10 – 15 goals every season if he plays regularly.
Goat – you’re bang on about pogba. I hate to bring this guy up as he is in my opinion ireelevant to united, he left with his own wishes but the languid style can be looked at, although looking at him and with more time, he may have eventually adapted. People bring him up all the time and i see nothing more than clutching at straws. He.left, we may regret it as he’s a talent but manchester united will move on.
Is this united hate blog?
Baffling comments all round
Its clear we have issues in the mid of the park hence sir alex is too reluctant to buy a proper mid
But this is getting way worse a thread, we all know what’s wrong and why we lost that’s clear even to amateur underage kids to see
Only prob is he haven’t found the right player, haha
Really?????
Like I was saying let’s cut it abit
Goat
Just going through your post in response to RedHound.
“The fact of the matter is Anderson, Cleverley, Kagawa, Scholes, Carrick are all better than Pogba and are alot of our youngsters. Tunicliffe included.”
Better?I don’t know about that. Not by much if at all. Tunicliffe is certainly not as good nor as developed as Pogba. The others come from a different generation and are on their last legs. Ando and Cleverley have yet to show what they can do , that is the simple fact of the matter. The french boy doesn’t get scared when he’s being closed down. I watched him for years i know what i’m talking about. He’s not their Saviour – far from it but he’s getting valuable game time. He may have acted like a dick but can’t blame him too much. He’s exactly the type of player we needed.
How many games has Powell started?
The United team of 2008 wasn’t built on galacticos but it was filled with top class players in every position. We have fallen so far in 4 years that it truly worries me. I really like De Gea and I want him to succeed as much as anyone but I’m losing confidence in him little by little in his decision making which hasn’t improved. Van Der Sar was the player from where our team could grow, he was a brilliant keeper and have us stability to build a team in front of him. Fergie doesn’t know who is best keeper is and he would deny it but I guarantee he’s having doubts about De Gea himself. With Vidic looking like he’ll never be back fully fit and certainly not the force he was and with Rio certainly in the twilight of his career we’ve completely lost probably our 3 most important players after Ronaldo from that side of 4 years ago. People talk about our obvious lack of centre midfielders but now our centre backs is an area of massive concern. There is a lot of rebuilding to do with this side and we’ve become acceptant of average players like Young and Welbeck. Shoot me down in flames if you want but Danny Welbeck is not good enough for Mancheter United. I’m seriously worried about the long term sustained challenge from us for the title. Fergie is working miracles with what is without doubt is his worst squad since he has been manager.
Jeoffrey – as far as i’ve known, united have made hardwork of teams, we make things difficult for ourselves and that’s been happening since the manager stamped his authority on the team. I would say we’ve yet to have a total complete performance this season, both from the back to the front but entertainment is nof lacking in my opinion but we all see things differently though. One thing united need to do is improve as the league and CL have improved yet again, the club has to step its game up or we’ll be left behind.
Where is StR and his quick responses thread?
Joffrey Baratheon
Mate I can understand your concern but you are very harsh on De gea and welbeck. Keepers usually peak in their late 20′s or early 30′s. Have you ever watched cassillas when he was 23 or 24. He used to make some silly mistakes. Look at him now. He is one of the best keepers in world. De gea will be top class in 2-3 years time. And honestly de gea has been good this season. IF you want to blame some one for our goals we concede then blame our defenders and midfielders.
Same with danny. He needs run of games. And fro god sake he cannot be useful as super sub. I remember he had a cracker of a game against stoke. The combination of Danny-Rvp-Rooney was great that day. I don;t know why he has been benched for young. Honestly what young is doing now danny will do it better. He needs games. No need to bury a 21 year old striker who has a bright future ahead of him. With time he will improve his finishing.
I think your preaching doom and gloom and i guess we’ll never see eye to eye regarding united. I see fergie gradually rebuilding with quality younger players while you see a team breaking down. 2008 is long gone, the team was at its peak and to reach that heights again you have to go through a roller coaster ride. I don’t want to be drawn into the welbeck debate, if people lack the vision to see the bigger picture regarding him then there’s no case to go further on the subject. Those that can see his talents, will see it.
You’re*
Coup needed,badly.
Van der sar was 35 when he joined, made all his errors and became stronger before joining united. De gea is 22, far from the finished article yet he’s been written off when clearly he was always going to go through a tough adaptation to english football. That says it all really. Success and rebuilding don’t bring instant rewards, to see it then patience is key. If you look at the team constructively, progress is at its early steps. If you look at the team impatiently from another, you’ll weep for doom. Fergie is not perfect but doesn’t sit still, he’s investing and developing players that will hopefully replace the likes of rio. I would rather see things positively but it’s not the case with everyone.
all I will say is, no idea why giggs was playing yesterday, does fergie not learn? giggs is well past his sell by date, it is not even funny
slim
When I looked at Pogba I saw a jack of all trades master of none. I saw a player that was not particularly quick in his first two steps, he was not as an accomplished defender as say Carrick. II didnt think he was an option for going forward. I think United have always gone for midfielders that have a particular role to play. Carrick is an accomplished zonal marking defensive midfielder you would not see him as an attacking midfield option. Scholes of old was an attacking option and he would never have been put as the man youd want to tackle on the edge of the United penalty area. Keane was useful coming forward on occassions but he was always a defensive midfielder as was Charlie Ince. Butt was a bit of an in between leaning more to defensive midfield but I felt the lesser option of what we had. Fergusson wanted Beckham out wide when Beckham wanted to play a central role but he would push too far forward when his quick touch passing was not sharp enough.
You have midfielders such as Gerrard and Robert Lee of Newcastle old, even Bryan Robson dare I say it that are more central midfielders, neither defensive specialist nor the option youd want in midfield to be the attacking threat and I see Pogba in that type of mould. I feel very good mediocre clubs with money to waste buy those players (please forgive me for putting Robbo in there but the game has changed) but those players are all industry and work with very little intelligence. Certainly not the level of intelligence to play at the very top of the game. See Barcelona, Xavi would never be in a DM role, never in a million years yet he is counted as a midfielder. Iniesta the same. Busquets youd never put in attacking midfield unless he played in England where the domestic skill level is woeful, hence Yaya Traores rise to fame here. In Barca he is a poor mans Busquets.
Pogba may well suite domestic football if he grows into what was promised but he would never be an option to play the very best of Europe and if he is a Gerrard who performs against the mnow sides then how could Sir Alex justify leaving him out when the cream of cream fixtures come up = player revolt. Pogba wasnt what was needed. There was a price for a job we were willing to pay, he wanted more as he saw himself the new Viera? He is not that at best he was a bench boy like Nicky Butt, Sheasey or Brown (defenders I know just making a point about bench boys). He wont amount to much.
Just my opinion of course
You know, Young wasn’t the worst player out there yesterday (not even the worst winger as a matter of fact). Only an idiot would single out just him. Or a scouser. Hmm….
@Samuel
Sorry for the delayed response. The Scholes/Giggs topic is starting to become really heated up and I am certain that most of us hate being brought in this position. I love them both. I grew up watching them. I’ve only been to Old Trafford once and my only regret was not seeing them play.
Here’s what I am confused about though. Who has to make the tough choice? The players or the manager? As top professionals, I understand that they still feel like they can compete at the highest level. Players can often delude themselves in that way. Gary Neville did for a while. And that’s why I feel they need someone to give them a wake up call. The manager hasn’t done that. On the contrary, in my opinion, he’s made the problem worse by using them so frequently or by claiming time and time again that they could play until 40.
That’s why I kind of groaned at the Scholes comeback last January. I was glad to see him play again, but you had to know that he wasn’t returning to be a short fix. Fergie himself said that the reason Scholes retired in 2011 was because he couldn’t guarantee him first team action in the range of 20-30 starts.
To clarify, when I spoke about a tough choice, I didn’t necessarily mean retirement. I’d love to see both guys stick around as bit part players. Kind of like McClair was in his last couple of seasons. But if they are not content with that, then the manager has to do what’s best for the club and cut ties with them. This isn’t just about us missing out on the title anymore. We also have to make sure Scholes and Giggs’ legacies are preserved.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/17/norwich-city-manchester-united-premier-league?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
The above article in today’s Observer is the best piece I have seen in terms of an analysis of yesterday’s disastrous defeat (and team selection!) and our ongoing problems that SAF and the coaching team seem unable to resolve.
A few choice quotes:
“The painful truth that Sir Alex Ferguson must confront is that opponents are not intimidated by United any more.”
“With Michael Carrick and Ryan Giggs offering minimal drive in midfield and Javier Hernández anonymous up front, there was a glaring lack of inspiration going forward”
“A goal was on the cards and the most damning assessment that can be made of United’s display is that when it arrived, no one was surprised.”
“For once, United deserved nothing and that is what they got. Norwich deserved everything.”
In effect yesterday was a reality check for us. We may top the qualifying group for the CL but its a very poor group and I fear for us coming up against the leading European clubs. In the PL we have got away all season with last ditch comebacks but 3 defeats against Everton, Spurs and Norwich do not fill me with confidence for the rest of the season. Leaving Ando and Cleverley on the bench and playing Carrick and Giggs together is an unfathomable management choice. Then to bring on Scholes as a substitute to try and win the game, when surely pace is what we needed, was ridiculous.
Okay lets quit going around the bush, trying to be respectful, putting what’s very obvious in too many words. Here’s the plain truth, and if anyone can prove me wrong i’ll never post on this blog again.
The boss put out a wrong midfield pairing yesterday, its not like he had no options. No, he had Anderson and Cleverley on the pitch, the two people responsible for United’s best start to a season ever. He put a 39 year old winger in the most important area of the team, the engine room, just as he did against Tottenham. That decision was the biggest reason we lost the game.
Fergie’s decision to start Giggs in midfield lost us the game.
I dont buy into this whole ‘it was a one off’ or ‘its a rarity’ thinking. If we played Barcelona tommorow, i fully expect Ferguson to start Giggs and bench Anderson, just as he did in 2011.
“I dont buy into this whole ‘it was a one off’ or ‘its a rarity’ thinking. If we played Barcelona tommorow, i fully expect Ferguson to start Giggs and bench Anderson, just as he did in 2011.”
This statement is funny and yet it is the most ACCURATE statement that has been made on this topic so far.
Don’t expect Fergie to change his tactics ANY TIME SOON. If we were to play real Madrid tomorrow. Fergie would somehow find a way to start Scholes or Giggs in the name of “experience”. And that is another big problem. When Fergie brought Scholes back last year I initially thought it was just a temporary thing till the midfielders get back from their injuries. Instead it has turned into fully playing Scholes again just like before he retired.
fuck you TOM C… why the fuck mention of family… fuck you.. you should be banned here…
Focussing all the frustration on the middle two ignores the fact that the team as a whole were pretty shit. Hernandez was anonymous and RVP fluffed two great chances. Valencia, one of our most consistent players, had time and space countless times to produce a delivery of quality and failed repeatedly. I only noticed Young was present when he came into the middle which left Evra exposed on the break. All in all a really crappy day at the office which to be perfectly honest was expected.
well said, GIZMOJ.
I don’t know why latin american players are not trusted at this club anymore…(Nani, Anderson, Hernandez, Rafael especially) there is seriously wrong with coaching staff, they are not able to convince SAF or tactics is in the scope of SAF…. As far as I know SAF was always a great man manager and motivator but since never a great tactician… (or we could have won more UCL)
RedHound
I tried to explain the team selection involving Giggs last night at 21.36.
I used to live on the Suffolk Norfolk border and so Norwich as a youngster used to be my home fixture. We always played 3 wingers against them and thats why he was picked. It showed however that the three winger system wasnt going to work this time round and no doubt thats why Nani didnt come on – being saved to run against tired fullbacks was probably the plan.
I cannot see why people cant see this as a game of not going to plan and sweep it under the carpet. Alot on here have criticsed Scholes and Giggs playing together but that was for 15 minutes of the match. Alot have criticised the Carrick Scholes midfield as lacking energy but those two have played some part in almost all our points this season.
I will however agree with the newspaper link above “Guardian” that people no longer fear us. They only fear us when Rooney plays because he can pull things out of the hat in an instant. Giggs however no longer intimidates or fill me with any hope for a change of outcome in a match, whether he starts or comes off the bench. I love the boy/man, we’re of similar age, we grew up around the same team but its time for him to hang his boots up. Scholes has a year atleast in being a squad member but Giggs has reached the end.
Arthur “van Two Sheds” Jackson
I love Chicha to bits. It’s just that whenever he starts, I get a certain feeling of pessimism and when he comes on as a sub, I have a strong feeling of optimism. And so far, his stats reflect that difference in feeling that I get. The main reason why I feel that way is because I have always been of the opinion that Chicha does not have the same endurance as Wayne Rooney. Wazza can play at the same high tempo for an entire 90 minute game (exclude his early season performances where he was still carrying his summer weight gain). Ronaldo was the same. These players were tailor-made for the EPL.
But it must also be said that compared to the past two seasons, Chicha looks tougher and more powerful this season.
Arthur “van Two Sheds” Jackson
I do agree that Chicha would perform better regardless if he’s a starter or a sub if there are creative assisters on the field with him, especially in midfield. Carrick can’t do that if he’s too busy patrolling 70% of midfield AND assisting the back four.
Listen Kunall aka Kunnu, fuck off and go make kaju barfi or something. And stick some clothes for yourself and daft fuck. Now piss off.
@Saad
Fair enough. Cheers, mate. Here’s to us doing better from here on out …
1. SAF have to stay…it is total bullshit that he has to go
2. We concentrate on defensive players too much, but i understand and why. On the end everything starts with good defence with one exception – if you have Messi
3. We should every year buy one midfield player..now we have what we have…but it is hard to watch that
Saddest thing is when , after a loss, fans turn on themselves. Next to this is the demand the manager must go. Sad.
Giggs and Scholes should be used as Subs!! we need to see how good Cleverley and Anderson are since they might be our future CM pairing. how can they improve from the bench?