United English XI
England caps: Ben Foster (2), Gary Neville (85), Wes Brown (21), Rio Ferdinand (72), Danny Simpson (0), Michael Carrick (17), Owen Hargreaves (42), Paul Scholes (66), Danny Welbeck (0), Michael Owen (89), Wayne Rooney (52). Total = 446
United British XI
British caps: Ben Foster (2), Gary Neville (85), Wes Brown (21), Rio Ferdinand (72), Ryan Giggs (64), Darren Fletcher (42), Michael Carrick (17), Owen Hargreaves (42), Paul Scholes (66), Michael Owen (89), Wayne Rooney (52). Total = 552.
Granted, the first thing I thought when news broke that we had signed Michael Owen was not his ‘Englishness’, but as time goes by and we make the adjustment to having a former Kop hero in our squad, I got thinking about how many good quality English players we now have. Then I wondered whether we could make a good starting XI from these English players. Then I wondered how much stronger that XI could be made if we were to include British players. Then I wondered what our English and British XI looked like compared to other Premiership teams…
Arsenal’s team thanks to ArsenalFCBlog.com:
Arsenal English XI
England caps: James Shea (0), Gavin Hoyte (0), Luke Ayling (0), Jay Emmanuel-Thomas (0), Kieran Gibbs (0), Sanchez Watt (0), Henri Lansbury (0), Mark Randall (0), Jack Wilshere (0), Theo Walcott (8), Jay Simpson (0). Total = 8.
Arsenal British XI
British caps: England caps: James Shea (0), Gavin Hoyte (0), Luke Ayling (0), Jay Emmanuel-Thomas (0), Kieran Gibbs (0), Sanchez Watt (0), Henri Lansbury (0), Aaron Ramsey (6), Jack Wilshere (0), Theo Walcott (8), Jay Simpson (0). Total = 14.
Chelsea’s team thanks to The Chelsea Blog:
English caps: Ross Turnball (0), Ashley Cole (73), John Terry (51), Michael Mancienne (0), Sam Hutchingson (0), Joe Cole (53), Michael Woods (0), Frank Lampard (71), Jacob Mellis (0), Scott Sinclair (0), Daniel Sturrige (0). Total = 248.
British caps total = 177. (There are no better British players in the squad than the English ones already chosen).
City’s team thanks to Bitter and Blue:
City English XI
England caps: Joe Hart (1), Micah Richards (11), Nedum Onuoha (0), Ben Mee (0), Wayne Bridge (33), Shaun Wright-Phillips (27), Michael Johnson (0), Gareth Barry (30), Kelvin Etuhu (0), David Ball (0), Shaleum Logan (0). Total: 102
City British XI
British caps: Joe Hart (1), Micah Richards (11), Nedum Onuoha (0), Ben Mee (0), Wayne Bridge (33), Shaun Wright-Phillips (27), Michael Johnson (0), Gareth Barry (30), Kelvin Etuhu (0), David Ball (0), Craig Bellamy (56). Total: 158
Liverpool team thanks to Liverpool-Kop:
Liverpool English XI
England caps: David Martin (0), Glen Johnson (16), Jamie Carragher (34), Stephen Darby (0), Robbie Threlfall (0), Adam Hamill (0), Jay Spearing (0), Steven Gerrard (74), Ray Putterill (0), Craig Lindfield (0), Nathan Eccleston (0). Total = 124.
Liverpool British XI
British caps: David Martin (0), Glen Johnson (16), Jamie Carragher (34), Stephen Darby (0), Robbie Threlfall (0), Adam Hamill (0), Jay Spearing (0), Steven Gerrard (74), Ryan Flynn (0), Craig Lindfield (0), Nathan Eccleston (0). Total = 124.
Of the eleven British players in each of the clubs’ teams, the only team to have a starting XI of British internationals is United, with an average of 50 caps per player.
City have the next highest number of British internationals, who have an average of 14 caps per player across the team, whilst Chelsea have fewer British internationals but a higher average of 23 caps per player across the team. Liverpool have the fewer British internationals as Chelsea but a lower average of 11 caps per player across the team. Arsenal have fewer British internationals and an average of 1 cap per player across the team.
I wouldn’t want United to have a team full of foreigners but equally I wouldn’t want just British players. I think striking a balance between the two different types of players, British and foreign, is the ideal and that is something Sir Alex Ferguson has managed incredibly well.
English players cost big money though, as United’s £18.6m transfer fee for Carrick, £27m for Rooney and £29m for Rio prove. Glen Johnson’s £17m move to Liverpool was obscene, as is the £600k a week Lampard gets dropped in his bank account every month.
So the key is in producing your own talent, either to incorporate in your team or to sell on to raise funds, which RoM commented on earlier this month.
There are several reasons why having a high standard of British players in your squad will help your team succeed.
Crème e la crème
All English teams will have foreigners who really form a bond with the club, like Solskjaer or Cantona at United or Zola at Chelsea, but whether we like it or not, our clubs will not be the pinnacle of the careers for most foreigners. Ronaldo loved United and did very well, but Real Madrid were always a better option for him, and the same could be said of Henry. But English and British players are more likely to see an English club as the crème de la crème and it’s fair enough to argue that makes a difference to how they perform on the pitch, as a generalisation.
Continuity of players
Another bonus to going British is that these players are more likely to stick around. If you think Arsenal don’t have any players remaining from their 2002 double winning squad, it’s interesting to see just how many players United have clung on to since then. Foreign players will come and go, generally, whilst British players don’t tend to move abroad, so playing for a top English club is as good as it gets for them. For example, six of the players in our British XI have been at the club for seven years or longer. Having that continuity in the team of course has a positive effect.
Grafters
For me though, it’s not how well England do because of the players we help develop at United, more how well United do because of having so many English players in the squad. Having fancy players like Ronaldo would all be for nothing if you didn’t have grafters like Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher, Rooney, Rio etc. who just get on with the job and support the ‘superstars’.
Whilst plenty of people get on their high horse about the effect having so many foreigners has on on our national team (which is not a big concern of mine), it’s good to see that this is one criticism the press can leave us out of!
Having so many British players isn’t the be all and end all to our success, but it’s hard to argue that having so many British players, who are of a good enough standard to represent their country, on average, 50 times, has played a role in our success. Your players feel as though they’ve made it to the big time and have no desire to leave you for Real Madrid or Barcelona, you have players who are likely to stay at the club for a long time, forming stronger bonds with their team-mates and knowing how their team-mates will play without a second thought, and they often are hard workers who put in the hard slog to allow your foreign twinkle-toes to get on with what they do best.
Man Utd News 24/7
good point scott.there have always been good english players at United.the blend of English and foreign players has been good and hope it continues.,brown,rio,carrick,hargo,rooney shud be regular starters if fit.so we have atleast half of the playesr who are english unlike other of top 4.
jesus christ that is an amazing read
F.A. GIVE UNITED SOME FUCKING CREDIT FOR ONCE
Thou giggs aint no defender thats amazing
there is a 375 british cap difference with the next closest
and every single one of those united players ,ive so much faith in simpson, will play top flight premiership football
and they all have some kind of english medal
including giggs who i think has one or 2
British internationals
united:11
other 3 together :14
add foster,owen,scholes and neville to that as they will play atleast 25-30 games this season.so even our bench has good number of english players.not oto forget welbeck,but he is still young and wnt play that many games
Wow! Just the other night, I was listing the English players that would form the United team. Was getting stuck for LB… Simpson!
BTW Scott… the numbers don’t add right in the Arsenal team. You’ve got Walcott with 9 caps (and rest 0) but English caps total to 8?! Similar for their Brit team where totals don’t tally with the individual caps.
That aside.. .this is one of the best pieces I’ve seen in a while. Was just thinking that today’s a slow news day, but I’m going to read this again and again and again and gloat!
Yay!
ghtt
plz shout goal today as well if some one scores.i have to go out again and scott,s Blog i cant open on my mobile
done
thanks.
Surely Ireland and Dunne would have made it into the City British XI but yeah, point made.
Colin – Irish isn’t British.
Interesting read. More interesting though is you could put either of utd’s teams up against any Prem team and you would expect them to win or at least draw against Chelsea, Arsenal & the Scum. You cant really say that about the others, especially Arsenal. Ive only heard of 5 of them. If that 5 & 6 rule comes in they are FUCKED
Not sure about the point of this exercise, and yes I am a gooner. Arsenal have a lot of good emerging English/British players so these stats could change over the coming years.
I will give Utd credit for the players you developed those years ago like Becks, Scholes, Giggs e.t.c, but some of your key English players now are at Utd just because you were able to throw large amounts of cash around to bring them in from clubs that had been responsible for their youth development (Ferdinand, Carrick, Hargreaves, Rooney). I am not sure how much credit you can take for this just because they happen to be at Utd now.
If any club deserves credit it is West Ham. They are responsible for the youth development of many of todays top English players even if they have now been bought up by clubs with more money. They are responsible for the likes of James, Glen Johnson, Ferdinand, Carrick, Joe Cole, Lampard, Defoe e.t.c. I notice 2 players you are taking credit for are on this list.
And your point is what exactly? That Man Utd have more of the technically inferior British players than other teams…well done! Haha…brilliant
@Colin S L
No as Ireland and Dunne are from the Republic of Ireland so are not British. Hence why O’shea isn’t on ours
Mind you on the Utd British Side Evans could have been included as he is from N.Ireland and despite representing Rep.Ireland Gibson could be included too as he is N.Irish by birth
and what is the reason for lampards caps not counting or is he considered french for uniteds backclapping festival
is infact british, you’re thinking of the UK
Before the ‘what makes someone British’ argument takes shape:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people
“The British (also known as Britons, informally Brits, or archaically Britishers) are citizens of the United Kingdom, of the Isle of Man, one of the Channel Islands, or of one of the British overseas territories, and their descendants.”
Think when there was the three foreigner rule in Europe, people from the Republic of Ireland were counted as “foreign”. People from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were not.
Thanks for the clarification Scott, Rep of Ireland hasn’t been a part of the UK or Britain for almost 100 years.
The picture looks cosy and rosy now, but will the likes of RedNev, Rio, Scholesy, Owen and even Wes and Hargreaves still be around by the time Blatter and co. try to force through their anti-foreigner rule (which, if the EU have any balls whatsoever, should never happen)?
I mean, I get what you’re saying and it’s nice to see (from the POV of one-upmanship), but IMVHO, we’re simply staving off the inevitable.
Look at the youngsters and those we have coming through (4-1-3-1-1);
GK:Amos (English)
RB: Rafael (Brasilian) — CB: Evans (N.I.) — CB: De Laet (Belgian)/ Dodo (Brasilian) — LB: Fabio (Brasilian)
D-LP: Possebon (was Brasilian, now Italian)
F: Welbeck (English) — ACM/DM: Anderson (Brasilian) — F: Petrucci (Italian)
F: Rooney (English)
CF: Macheda (Italian)
which gives us the sum total of 3 English players. Hopefully Matty James and Ravel Morrison progress in the way we hope they will and they’ll add another couple, but it still might not be enough.
Ironically, after years of being at the wrong end of the anti-foreigner bashing stick, it looks like Arsenal will be the one laughing hardest in just a few years’ time.
Its a good stat to see, although from a personal viewpoint wish more Scottish players had the quality to play for United.
EastStandManc: while its true that the players coming through arent as much brittish there are still a few. Also we have a habit of buying English players from other clubs once they are established, all be it at the inflated price you have to pay for transfers between teams in the Premiership and the United tax.(Carrick, Rio, Rooney, Hargo)
According to SSN, City have released Michael Ball.
Never mind. You meant another Ball. [facepalm]
you forgot about jonny evans. so the defense would be:
foster
neville-evans-rio-brown
das
Evans plays for Ireland
Glad to see that EastStand Manc and Neejil are more objective about this and haven’t just gone into the back clapping mode. I am sure that Utd will have a core of English still in the future but I agree a few of these will have been bought in rather than developed. It could depend on Fergies successor as well though. i am excited to see how many of the English Arsenal players make it to the first team. On top of those mentioned we also have Bartley and frimpong and behind those even younger prospects like Luke Freeman. I guess we will all have to wait and see.
Young English players are the most over-priced in the whole transfer market. Clowns like David Bentley go for 17 million! League One Leeds want 6 million for an unproven 19 year old who’s had a bit of hype. Players from abroad are always the cheaper option.
It would be interesting to count youth national caps for those not made their senior debut. Chelsea have pleasingly started to invest in British youth on top of already have quite a few. I think Chelsea are quite well set for any future 6-5 rule.
@Anon
Evans Plays for N.Ireland. Thats in the UK. Evans could have been included as could Gibson (Despite playing for the Republic he is from N.Ireland. He elected to play for the Republic by using the Good Friday Agreement which grants anyone Born anywhere in Ireland be it North or South of the border citizenship to the Republic. He did so after N.Ireland dropped him from the u16′s squad due to him attending his United Trail)
@ Anon Evans is N. Irish. Big differnt to the Repuclic
brilliant post, good research.
Jonny Evans has 17 caps for NORTHERN Ireland so that’s 579 altogether.
My personal British XI for United would be
Foster
Fletcher Brown Ferdinand Evans
Hargreaves Scholes Carrick Giggs
Rooney Owen
Less caps, but a better team IMO.
One word.
Thorough.
Yep.
Interesting article,
Now, can you post another blog looking at the British and english players playing in the EPL, regardless of which team they are playing for now and show which team leads in respect of their development.
That would be even more interesting.
Great Read!!! – Evans at left bk IMO.
Arselicked Said,
July 24th, 2009 @14:32
Interesting article,
Now, can you post another blog looking at the British and english players playing in the EPL, regardless of which team they are playing for now and show which team leads in respect of their development.
That would be even more interesting.
You are right that would be very interesting. Although I don’t have the time to go through it thoroughly, I’ll hazard a guess that in sheer volume of British and English players playing in EPL and developed by an EPL club West Ham will come first. Followed closely by United.
On a side note, can’t the dippers develop a single player? I can’t think of very many players who have played in the EPL over the last 5 years who were developed at their so-called Academy. No wonder the FSW purged most of the youth team coaches.
@browny: the point of the article is just that, britsh players at United, doesn’t really matter whether the players were forced against their will to play for the club.
Its fact that Manchester United would humiliate the other of the top 4 of England when it comes to British and English players. Im not afraid of the future as Platini is planning. If a 5+6 player system will be actual in Europe, Manchester United will be the team that conquer Premier League, as the Scousers can move for la liga or something.
What impresses me about SAF has been how he has maintained an English spine with a smattering of international flair and talent to build his team. It has served him well, even if Man U’s football is not as exciting as others.
Remember J. Evans is British too
It is good to see a big club like Manchester United can use local talented and always looking for those youngster…
Bravo Manchester United!
what about a british isles 11? you would be able to include o’shea too.
irish players come from a similar background. similar mentality maybe
foster
brown ferdinand evans o’shea
hargreaves fletcher carrick giggs
owen rooney
subs…………
neville
simpson
welbeck
scholes
have we a young british/irish keeper on the books? bound to…