Patrice Evra has offered some support to our anti-Glazer protests.
“They are the original colors of Manchester United and the fans wear them because they love this club,” Evra said. “They have their reasons for doing it and we don’t think that they’re crazy. They’d like things to change.”
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Everything Patrice Evra says endears him a little more to our hearts……
I think Evra wants thinks to change too…but he can’t say too much. He loves this club, probably just as much as we do. Great lad.
Best left back in the world. So glad to have him.
TOP MAN U CANT FAULT THE LAD
great player, great man
We love you too Patrice.
The glazers were out today saying united is not for sale.
The Red knights are close to making an 100% bid
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article7045947.ece
Good news: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article7045947.ece
Top man Ev
evra is an absolute legend…
This guy is the our new captain. End of. No need to look elsewhere, great affinity with the fans, great on the pitch, says the right things and truly loves the club. Fantastic
good one evra first fergie now evra has come out with support to our anti parasite protests
off topic
does anyone know the name of the song in the sport relief video??
utd is a special club and players who come and get to play realise this,thats what seperates us from everyone else i couldn’t name one player who’s a rentboy what other club can say this.players become fans and love the club just as much as the fans it creates a aura thats unparralled anywere else.evra is truley commited to the cause and i think he should be the next utd captain
On the green and gold campaign and Wembley yesterday, I’ll repeat the questions I asked on an earlier thread:
Why were the anti-Glazer banners taken down quite forcibly just as the game was about to start?
And how did Villa fans get in amongst the United fans behind the goal, especially are there were thousands of Reds fans wanting tickets but who couldn’t get them?
We need answers…especially the guy sitting next to me who, when he saw what was going on, rolled up and hid his LUHG banner and spent the rest of the day looking nervously over his shoulder for stewards.
As for Pat Evra, he’s going to go down as an Old Trafford and United legend. He deserves his own song, so get to it, lads.
We must make a very good chant for him he deserves it and that”s the least we can do . And he would love it
Is it not time that The Red Knights started handing out FREE Green n Gold scarves at the next home game.
They’l really put across a point to all fans and stop leachers on jumping on the money machine… Who are the leachers I’m reffering to? The ones who hate the Glazers but at the same time ripping off the fans.
Take note…. The scarfs can b imported direct from China for 90p landed.
Is it not time that The Red Knights started handing out FREE Green n Gold scarves at the next home game.
They’l really put across a point to all fans and stop leachers on jumping on the money machine… Who are the leachers I’m reffering to? The ones who hate the Glazers but at the same time ripping off the fans.
Take note…. The scarfs can b imported direct from China for 90p landed.
Come on, stop fleecing off the fans u greedy vendors, you’re no better than Malcolm n Co
Just a thought, can it be arranged to hand out yellow & green card / paper at the Milan or Liverpool games. Coordinate it so each stand has has a different colour, should be easy enough to arrange and enough people would offer to help.
Imagine on TV as the games kickoff, the wholestadim shrowded in green and gold.
They couldn’t stop it!!!
What do you reckon
why cant the glazers piss off and give it to PPL like the red knights who will make the club better, and take the club to the next level because the parasites are dragging us down.
Evra is an idiot. The G&G protest is dispicable. The Glazers are great owners. The Red Knights want to fleece the fans and use the club as their own personal piggybank. Love United, Love Glazer.
Don’t worry fellas, I’ve not lost my marbles, I’m just saving Paul H and Wakey from having to type their usual bollocks.
I love that man! there I said it.
I liked the ‘Left Back Pat’ chant.. except the ‘black n white hat’ line needs some work…
Come on Scott! A competition is in order!!!! the man deserves no less!
rofl! sshhhamed!
@rooney the new king
And why can’t people like you GET A CLUE. The Glazers aren’t parasites, they are business men and successful ones at that. The only real issue anyone can have with them is the debt leveraged against the club and as much as Keith Harris likes to keep his interviews focusing on how evil they are and how him and the Red Knights are Fans who will run the club better when he is asked the tough questions he shows the Red Knights true face as being opportunistic businessmen looking to use us the fans to make them rich.
The most important thing Harris has said which no media outlet or United Blogger has picked up (But can be heard by anyone if you listen to one of his interviews with the BBC) is that the Red Knights WILL NOT pay off the debt. This will remain a debt on the club which the club will continue to have to pay the 44mill interest payments on each year. The second most important thing he has said is that the club will be bought in the same way as Villa was, by that he means the buyout is leveraged against the club in the form of a loan, in Villa’s case that loans around 70mill but in our case thats anywhere in the 1bn to 2bn range. So not only will we be required to keep paying the 44mill on the bonds each year but we will have the Red Knights debt to pay back. And sure at some point they will probably write the loan off in a debt for equity swap like we have seen at Chelsea and City to put the book debts back to 500mill BUT that will see the Red Knights holding preferential shares that guarantee a certain dividend paid to them each year.
Pretty much everything Harris said in the first week of Interviews he gave he has now gone back on. So much so that thankfully MUST for once showed some common sense and didn’t back his boycott Season Ticket request which has now seen him have to yoyo back on the ‘Fan Ownership’ issue with the offer of a ‘Golden Share’ but that’s not a legally binding promise and isn’t really worth much. It will give the supporters groups the right to veto any a full takeover BUT no other powers.
The sooner people wake up and stop wanting the Glazers out no matter what and actually engage their brains the better. You need to work out what exactly are the key reasons you want them out (and that has to be based on facts not the fiction that’s floating) and then have to be 110% sure that any options will address those key factors. And the Red Knights are not looking to make any of the key situations better. They are not going to reduce the debt (They will actually Increase it), they aren’t looking to give fans a say in the club (A rather worthless Golden share that comes into play in a takeover situation but thats it), the can’t afford to not keep the ticket price rises going , they don’t get the club owned by locals (Most are London money men, its debatable if they are even really fans on the whole) etc etc
Who the fuck are the red knights? Really. Nobody knows anything about them or their own agenda. You only have to look at some of the comments on that article that United4Eva posted.
What the Glazers really need to do if they respect this club is sell the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and use the money to pay of the debts and help United, otherwise they can get the fuck out…
For all the abuse the like of Wakey gets you can’t over look the points he makes. Anyway that is all I have to say on this matter.
@Fred
So you believe that the Red Knights are willing to spend over 30mill each and not make a profit out of it?
If you read past the ‘Headlines’ when it comes to Harris you will see that the Red Knights are not looking to do anything to address any of the issues that fans bring up when talking about why the Glazers need to go. You will also notice him and the Red Knights are actually asking us to do damage to the club while being all mysterious.
All in all they are wanting us to be like Portsmouth fans have been all season and pin all our hopes on people we know nothing about and in no way are able to prove and guarantee or even intended to actually improve things.
If the Glazers are to be replaced then it has to be by someone whose offer is better on all fronts and the problem is where is this offer. It doesn’t exist, the only thing on the horizon is the Red Knights which doesn’t address ANYTHING. If you want to keep doing the G&G stuff then each to their own BUT with no reasonable and valid exit strategy it has to be done carefully so its nothing more than a sign of displeasure as anything that damages the club or forces them to sell leaves the club jumping out out of the frying pan into the fire
Oh for fuck sake, any mention of green and gold and Agent Wakey is on the case! I’m not guna bother reading your post and not just ‘cos it’s far too long but because i’m sure it’ll be the SAME OLD SHIT. Please just give it a rest or go support the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or something.
Alright I’d thought I’d better read your post ‘cos it’s a bit rich to diss someone without reading what they have to say.
“The Glazers aren’t parasites, they are business men and successful ones at that. The only real issue anyone can have with them is the debt leveraged against the club”
That’s not the only issue people can have with them, it’s not the only issue I have with them. As you say, they are business men, their only interest in the club is the money it can make them, and the club wouldn’t need to be as successful as we would like it to be for them to make money from us. I don’t think i’m wrong in saying their NFL team are far from successful? At least compared to our standards anyway.
Maybe the Red Knights will not be any better, I don’t know enough about them to be honest and I suspect neither do you. But I still don’t like the Glazers and the green and gold protest is against them, a way of showing our displeasure at them and their ‘business plan’ and their attitude towards our club. They are not the owners this club needs. And, as results have shown, it does not affect the team! In fact, results, and the atmosphere at OT have substantially improved as the protests have gathered pace.
@Behmermanc
Its not as simple as that though. Why did the Glazers buy the club the way they did when they had assets that could be sold off to finance it? The answer is that when looking at the bigger picture that made them more money than selling the assets off.
To use a real world example lets assume you are in the real estate business. You have a portfolio of 20 houses you have bought and now rent out for a nice profit. The opportunity then comes to buy a larger house that’s grander and will generate more profit than the other houses you have BUT you don’t have the money and you don’t want to borrow the money. So you sell off 10 of your houses to pay for it. Thats great you are now debt free BUT not only will you be wanting to make your investment back in a set number of years BUT now you need this new house to also cover the lost revenue that the 10 houses you sold were making.
Certainly when they bought the club the profits weren’t high enough to justify selling some of their other assets, the club just wouldn’t have been able to remain profitable and have them take enough to cover the lost revenue. Even now with profits having doubled if they had financed it that way then the chances are we would have been in a situation where rather than having club accounts that show 90mill profit we would be like Liverpool, City and Chelsea and only just breaking even or even making a loss every year. This is why you can’t just sell off other companies/assets in your ‘empire’ to fun takeovers or clear debt and its why taking on debt can make sense
yea the green and gold protests have really done damage havent they tell me what happened on sunday exactly. Its scare mongering from the parasites and many others because they are shown what they are parasites.
This green and gold protests is making OT louder than ever and more passionate, I have never seen OT this pumped angry and jumping since the days of when stadiums were standing not all seats. And I would rather take avdvice from PPL like kieth harris who has decades of experience who is helping the club.
Also if the red knights are not that good why do they have the obama PPL involved and many others, the PPl behind the red knights have made sure they have a good package in place, they are not stupid and they propably are far better buisness men than the parasites who have cheated the financial football market to make a quick buck. The parasites are not great buisnessmen, any millionaire like the parasites who are not fit to run our club can do this it is cheating especially when you see the structure of united, if they did this with clubs like villa or liverpool they would be close to bankruptcy because?
- they are not anywhere near united profit wise
- club size or how the club is built from academy to first team and stadium attendance.
- when you have a stadium like OT filling 76,000 ppl
- a manager like fergie and squad’s filled with players like VDS ferdinand vidic evra scholes fletcher carrick ronaldo giggs rooney and many other players all fit
- and tv contract money and prize money in compititions higher than ever off course profits will go up.
Its not only the debt the parasites have done so much more damage, they have pissed on fans like scott the red who knows what it is like when he goes to every game.
deal with it the red knights are for real, and does anyone really think they would get involved taking over the club without having full knowledge what they were dealing with, the difference is with the parasites they have cheated the financial football market and it stinks.
@Fred
How exactly is what Wakey wrote bollocks? Rather than being a snide prick, perhaps you should read what he posted- it makes quite a bit of sense to me. Then again, to be so condescending, you clearly must be a financial virtuoso. Care to explain why the Red Knights takeover would be good for United? Or perhaps you’ll just make another facetious comment since you have no idea what you’re talking about? I’m all ears.
well david conn a financial expert beggs to differ
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/02/red-knights-manchester-united-glazers
this is not my area, got kicked off a Great blog for this. Just love my Club. End off, financial crap kill’s me. anybody know where there is a safe cash dispenser? pmsl
Damn Frenchmen and their charm.. Love you, Evra!
@McQueen
Comparing Tampa Bay and United isn’t really a viable comparison. Not only is the NFL completely different (Its setup to a degree to spread success and the league setup is like splitting the EPL into North and South leagues. You would split the each half into 4 sub leagues. Then each team would play each team in their sub league twice and then a random selection from the other 7 subleagues. This would then give you 8 champions. These 8 and then the best 2 runners up from the Northern League and the best 2 runners up in the Southern League would then all be entered into a knockout cup to see who wins the whole thing) BUT the Glazers ownership of the Buccs is more like Romans ownership of Chelsea. Its their home town team and they invested alot of money to get their small no hope team to be Super Bowl Champs. I’m not sure they will have actually made any profit off the Buccs and theres no real plan in place there. And when the actions to win the superbowl had their repercussions (Basically to get the coach they wanted to help them win they had to give up their first and second draft picks for the next 4 years which is a MAJOR thing to give up, oh and a load of money too) and the fans turned they then seemed to do fall out of love with the team which is always an issue when its an ‘emotional purchase’ and seem to have pulled back a bit
With United if you agree with the business plan or not they have gone in as if its any of their other business ventures and treat it like a business. Which really isn’t a bad thing as in sport success on the field goes hand in hand with success off it so as long as you fund success on the field without going overboard you will make money. You do get more certainty of them sticking around than you do with the likes of Roman who there is always the risk of him upping sticks and leaving (and he seems to have come close a couple of times already). I also don’t think theres much in their business plan that would have differed no matter who our owners were, the PLC was coming to an end no matter what (as M&M were eager to sell, and we had a couple of other larger shareholders who were in it to sell the shares high) and all would have had to saddle the club with debt in some way or other and would have had to look to eek out revenue, especially in the ‘Sugar Daddy’ era we had just entered at the time where profits needed vastly increased to compete. Just as everything from the Red Knights mouth piece suggests they too will have to do.
“. But I still don’t like the Glazers and the green and gold protest is against them, a way of showing our displeasure at them and their ‘business plan’ and their attitude towards our club”
I have no problem with anyone choosing to show displeasure. I just don’t like the way that ‘falsehoods’ are being used to help spread this and to help try and push a more militant approach to drive the Glazers out without a solid and viable exit strategy being on the table. I’m not adverse even to the Glazers going myself BUT I hate seeing the way that the media, MUST and now the Red Knights are using the fans to push their own personal agendas without a exit strategy which isn’t based in fantasy land or which isn’t asking for alot of good faith despite the evidence suggesting the good faith isn’t due. Don’t like the Glazers then carry on with RESPECTFUL protests such as the Green and Gold BUT don’t cross the line and start trying to force them out unless there is something that’s ACTUALLY better thats certain
Wakey – yea really, some rich arab who has no love for the club like with shitty, or the russian at chelsea yea thats really better who sticks his nose in. For me the red knights is better and I have full confidence this will be brilliant for the club and with them booting the parasites out it will be brilliant.
why were the fans so quiet on sunday? villa fans took over i mean the GLAZERS were in the stadium yet we only sang anti glazer songs for like 5 minutes…this always happens at wembley…i reaally wonder why we are half hearted at wembley when our away support is usually fantastic
@rooney the new king
“well david conn a financial expert beggs to differ ”
Strange as I was always thought David COnn was actually a SPORTS JOURNALIST. You will also find he is A City fan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Conn
He isn’t even a good Journalist as he can’t even get his facts right. He reports “The reported presence in yesterday’s “Red Knights” meeting of Paul Marshall, the hedge fund founder who has called for the club to be supporter-owned like Barcelona, gives hope for the genuineness of the idea.” despite the fact that Harris last week stated in a couple of interviews which were carried by all the media outlets including his own paper (Although they all focused on his demand that fans give up their tickets) that such a structure wasn’t viable and wouldn’t happen. He then states “United made a profit only because they sold Cristiano Ronaldo for £81m” which is WRONG as he is talking about the HOLDING COMPANY which isn’t the clubs accounts. The club made over 90mill in the last tax year as confirmed by Gill in his BBC interview
“yea the green and gold protests have really done damage havent they tell me what happened on sunday exactly”
No-one has said the Green and Gold is doing damage so WTF are you going on about
“the PPl behind the red knights have made sure they have a good package in place, they are not stupid and they propably are far better buisness men than the parasites who have cheated the financial football market to make a quick buck.”
You really are a fool. The Red Knights are made up of people like Fred Done who are worth millions and London Money men (You know the people who risk other peoples money and are to blame for the Global recession we are in now). Malcom Glazer on the other hand was a BILLIONAIRE without owning United. So who exactly is the better business man? I think by a LONG WAY its Glazer. OFC you will keep saying its Fred Done and co, so i will expect you to next start telling me FC United are a bigger and more successful team that Machester United.
“if they did this with clubs like villa or liverpool they would be close to bankruptcy because?”
Not counting transfers, Prize Money, TV Money or Tickets our profits have grown fairly significantly. Its easy to dismiss the Glazers as bringing nothing to the table but they have streamlined the way the club operates and opened up alot of new revenue streams that the PLC didn’t. And hey while Liverpool have almost all the same opertunities (Sure a smaller staduim although higher ticket prices) there is a major difference in the job their owners have done and ours have. While the Glazers are doing a good job opening up new revenue streams and also refinacing the loans at the correct times Hicks and Gillette failed to do so and have actually made their situation worse by not refinaciing until its too late. If we had had Hicks and Gillete as our owners then yes United would now be bankrupt despite the same circumstances
“yea really, some rich arab who has no love for the club like with shitty, or the russian at chelsea yea thats really better who sticks his nose in”
Where did I say I wanted that kind of owner?
“For me the red knights is better and I have full confidence this will be brilliant for the club and with them booting the parasites out it will be brilliant.”
And theres the problem this club now has, people like you who will blindly follow what Harris asks you to do in the belief that they are doing it out of the goodness of their heart and all because you haven’t bothered to ever read past the headline of any interview he has given. Wake up ffs
legend
I love Evra!
@ Wakey
I can really feel your frustration coming through. Maybe in sometime a few more details would come out and then people will start asking questions. Once the figures come out everyone is going to want to find out how the takeover is going to be done.
We’ve already had one bad experience so I don’t think people are going to read only the headlines.
But I don’t really see the Glazers’ selling at the end of the day.
Right now the anger against them is immense so people aren’t really thinking beyond throwing them out. Let us wait and see.
The Glazers’ have been caught out by the recession. The business model followed by most American concerns are the same. Projections are based on the best case scenario and when a rainy day comes nobody quite knows what to do.
@ Wakey
FANTASTIC posts written by you.
Top marks, you’re 110% spot on with your sensible comments.
Somehow, as Rich as the Red Knights may be collectivley, they still definitley won’t be using there own money to fund the takeover. It will be money borrowed thru their connections.
I agree, He’s a good example to the other players, and is a great captain!
Well said Wakey.
I hate the Glazers as much as the next man, but blind faith is nonsensical. I’m not dismissing the Red Knights, but I’m certainly not investing any faith in a consortium I know nothing of.
Is fan support even relevant in the event of a buyout? The Glazers don’t want to sell and won’t, unless the RK’s up their offer to a ridiculous amount, in which case it’s completely irrelevant if the fans are behind them or not.
Note: Let’s not confuse the green & gold campaign with the Red Knights proposed buy-out.
The best left back in the world and a great example to the Da Silvas to follow.
With regards to the buyout by the red knights…. its not going to happen, the Glazers wont sell and we just have to sit and watch things unfold. It would be nice to think the Glazers would sell other assets (eg. Tampa Bay etc….) to clear Utd’s debt (which if they did would probably stop all Utd fans hating them!!) but they wont. I keep hearing that Glazer is a billionaire, well maybe in assets but defo not in money terms, otherwise he would have paid cash for Utd and would be taking a shit load more money home than he is now.
Oh off topic.. how the fuck has Madrid come out on top of the rich list?? They borrowed shit loads of money from banks to fund their transfers, I just dont get that, Barca I could understand but Madrid!!
@Gee
Was surpried to see Madrid top myself but the sole reason is the weakness of the pound compared to the euro. That is the reason Madrod and barca are ahead of us.
What is the point of the rich list. Is it money in the bank. Money or assets that are assigned to the club. Or the wealth of the owner and his assets beyond the scope of the mentioned club. Turnover. What?
If its debts, we are arguable the poorest club in the world. If its owners then QPR are the largest club in the world. If its turnover then Chelsea aren’t even in the top 20 nor is City.
Someone please enlighten me.
Big day today as far as news goes. Red Knighton’s to release a statement later about their proposal. David Gill speaking publicly at Soccerex European forum in Manchester this afternoon. The annual football rich list published. So, let’s deal with these in turn.
1. Red Knights – I’ll reserve final judgement until I see their proposal and the names/credentials behind the £money. No detailed comment to make yet, except to say that they haven’t convinced me so far. Sketchy details. Bad advice to supporters. Apparent London bias. City boys through and through. Read Wakey’s earlier post as he puts in perspective. Of the names we do know so far:
Harris – Seymour Pierce Investments – London based, hasn’t been to OT in 5 years+, arranged unsuccessful takeovers such as Magnusson at West Ham and Shinawatra at City.
Jim O’Neill – Goldman Sachs – London based – “I’m not a buyer of the bond” (the one that was more than twice oversubscribed….)
Mike Rawlinson – City Lawyer – London based
Paul Marshall – Hedge Fund Manager (the type’s who nearly wrecked the global economy) – London based
Richard Hytner – Saatchi & Saatchi (big Tory loving boys) – London based
Oh, and for balance, Fred Done – Bookie – Salford.
M’mmmm, great. So far, so good.
2. David Gill at Soccerex. Again, let’s wait and see, but I’m hoping for a convincing performance. “Soccerex is delighted to announce that CEO, David Gill, will take part in a 1-to-1 interview at the Soccerex European Forum (2-3 March, Manchester). Forbes recently valued Manchester United at 1.87 billion US dollars, making them the most valuable sports team in the world, a testament to the power of its global brand and worldwide fan base.
This session is a rare opportunity to hear David Gill’s thoughts on the global football industry and provides the perfect end to the Soccerex European Forum conference agenda on 3 March. The interview will cover issues such as football finance, club ownership, collective selling, the future of the Premier League, the need for a national academy and the 2018 FIFA World Cup. David Gill has been employed by Manchester United for over a decade and since being promoted to CEO in 2003 they have won 3 Premier League titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Champions League and 1 FIFA Club World Cup. As well as holding one of the most powerful jobs in football, he also sits on the board of The FA and the European Club Association.”
3. The rich list, for what it’s worth, clearly shows that when you take into account the massive decline in the Pound against the Euro over the past 4 years, United are still the club with the largest global revenues. Still the no.1 global financial force and that’s against state/bankrolled machines like Real.
Will the Glazers sell? If they are made a silly offer. An offer they cannot refuse. Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t?
If it’s £1 – £1.3 bn, then no. The owners see the world in $USD, but their investment is primarily measured in £GBP, as are the majority of it’s income streams. Sterling is weak and set to stay so for several years, IMHO.
So they are here for the long haul, unless silly, crazy money is on the table.
Our success continued at the weekend, with trophy no.1 (of 3 I hope) for the year and remarkably the first cup retained by SAF, in his haul of 32. Amazing stat.
I guess my final point is that the past 4-5 years have been the most successful in our history. Now I’m not going to claim that this is down to our owners – that would be totally arrogant (something I’m working on!) but above all wrong. However, I’m not going to listen to anyone who says that it is “in spite” of them either. The players, coaches, physios, the Manager, the commercial development team, the CEO and the board all have to be on their game, making the right decisions day in day out to enjoy this level of sustained success. Why risk it?
Maybe it’s because the sun is shining here in Manchester today, but I have a great feeling about the club from top to bottom right now. United through and through.
Harris – Seymour Pierce Investments – London based, hasn’t been to OT in 5 years+, arranged unsuccessful takeovers such as Magnusson at West Ham and Shinawatra at City.
________________________________________________
Before anyone corrects me, they were successful takeovers, with unsuccessful outcomes on/off the field. Sorry
@sinred
“We’ve already had one bad experience so I don’t think people are going to read only the headlines.”
The problem is people are and its what Harris seems to be relying on. He goes into each interview with a big headline grabbing point that he thinks will see the red knights ‘accepted’ and when he is pushed on anything else he seems to dodge them with a trueful but blunt responce before getting back on his headline point.
“The Glazers’ have been caught out by the recession”
I’m not sure they have that much tbh. Obviously we don’t have the Glazers full accounts but the PIK’s only generate 23mill in interest which isn’t a massive amount really across their whole business empire.
Obviously the recession wouldn’t have helped them and its certainly hit them when it comes to refinancing the 500mill as they did indicate at the the time of the take over that they would do a number of refinancing as time went on where as with the Bond issue we have only seen 2. I suspect that we would have seen one in between the bond issue and the 2006 refinance IF the economy had stayed as it was. Also obviously their other assets would have been making more returns which would have been more to put away for when/if they are in a position where they have to or it makes sense to swap the outside debt for ‘internal debt’ BUT I doubt they were that ‘Best Case’ in their planning. TBH as far as their finances go they are about to be ‘in the money’ because they would have budgeted for the PIK’s to jump to 16.25% so they will be saving 2% that would have been budgeted as well as saving 9mill a season by paying off 75mill
@Gee
“I keep hearing that Glazer is a billionaire, well maybe in assets but defo not in money terms, otherwise he would have paid cash for Utd and would be taking a shit load more money home than he is now”
How many people do you know who have billions sitting in the bank. Most people aren’t rich by having their money sitting around doing nothing, they are rich by making their money work for them. Even the Red Knights will be borrowing the money to buy each of their share as they won’t have the money in the bank
“Oh off topic.. how the fuck has Madrid come out on top of the rich list?? They borrowed shit loads of money from banks to fund their transfers, I just dont get that, Barca I could understand but Madrid!!”
Its for the 2008/2009 season as I don’t think any club has published accounts that include any of the 2009/2010 season. And its revenue anyway so it doesn’t matter how much you spend hence why Liverpool are in it despite them only just turning a profit for that season.
Also as AIG said the Euro’s is a stronger currency so English clubs lose out when the figures are put into Euros
@GoatinaUnitedShirt
Its club revenue. Oh and Real would be below us on the debt front as theres is higher than our 500mill and its going to grow by another 200mill in the next accounts. OFC they are lucky as their Bank loans are all interest free as are the ‘Presidental Investment’. Barca would probally be pushing our ‘debt’ figure as well.
Im gonna wait and see if the red knights are the real deal before i make a judgment. On evra, maybe there’s a case for making him the permanet captain next season, dont know what any1 else thinks about it.
@Paul H
You are also forgetting the handful of clubs he has been employed to find buyers for or takeover groups he has been employed by who he has taken their money but hasn’t got the deal done. In the case of Newcastle he had a client who wanted to sell and multiple people willing to put in offers in the ball park of what Ashley wanted and screwed it up. He isn’t quite the takeover genuis he likes to make out
Not wishing to take sides here but working in finance myself I am suspicious of both Glazer and Red Knights. By the way the Glazers won’t sell so all this is a waste of time. Other solutions to the debt problem will prevail.
Stick to the football lads.
had to laugh at the knighton moniker! I’ll really start to worry if we start to see fred done doing kick ups on ot pitch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/03/can_an_investment_banker_and_a.html
Finally the media puts out a level headed article
What a legend this guy is. He never fails to disappoint, both on the field and off it. More than deserved to Captain a winning team in a cup final. Well done lad.
@sppibsihmkcrkg – thanks for noticing the Knight(on) reference. I’ve slipped it into a few posts recently, but no-one has commented or bitten
@Wakey – yep, completely forgot about how Harris messed up the Newcastle sale. Embarrassment all round over that one.
Btw, I mentioned earlier that Gill will be speaking at Soccerex today – actually he’s on tomorrow for those who are interested, as the closing speaker…..
Anyway, getting impatient now. I want to see the Red Knights’ statement and watch the next plays unfold.
They’ve already told the supporters not to attend games and not to renew season tickets, sacrificing bearing witness to the continuation of what is arguably the most successful period in our history. I can’t wait for the next pearls of wisdom from them. One of them is allegedly originally from Stockport, so you would naturally have to question who he really supports. A Trojan Horse sent by the noisy neighbours?
But in all seriousness. I will assess their proposals impassionately and objectively.
Honestly.
Another good article
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/markogden/100005680/will-overthrowing-the-glazers-really-lead-to-utopia-at-manchester-united/
@Paul H
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jZm88AcFdWCQqF3vy7Usc5GQp_kA
They say alot without saying anything worthwhile. Its just alot of Buzz words to get the likes of MUST to support them. It certainly adds nothing new and gives no information as to why people should support them BUT people will due to lines like “Any new ownership model would aim not only to put the club on a sound financial footing, but would also aim to put the supporters at the heart of everything the club does.” DESPITE Harris admitting the debt won’t be removed (As its pretty clear that they are not going to pay the 800mill plus needed to clear it after paying 1bn +)
They also seem to be still wanting fans to help them low ball the Glazers so despite all their talk I’m guessing they don’t think they can make the value (1.2bn) let alone the 1.5bn that is needed to get the Glazers to the table
@Paul H
And no you were right the first time its tonight
Join leading figures in football for a BBC debate:
The Business of Sport – Football in the Red.
It will be broadcast live on Tuesday 2 March (all times GMT)
2000-2100 BBC News Channel
2000-2130 BBC Radio 5 live
2000-2130 BBC News website
@ Wakey
As you seem to know what you’re talking about when it comes to financial issues, please can you please explain the £500m bond issue. What it is, why it was done and what it means. I’m a bit lost with it.
Congratulations to Wakey for keeping going under heavy fire, sometimes from people who should know better. I’m not knowledgable enough to assess all the arguments, but Wakey is providing a vital service for us all in trying to unpick what’s really going on. He may be right or he may be wrong on details, I can’t say, but I do know it’s very important not to get suckered into supporting some new scheme, just because it’s ‘Not The Glazers’, as if that’s all that counts. There are no easy solutions in this situation and all of us need to be very wary of false Messiahs.Those like Wakey who are giving out reasoned warnings deserve a good hearing.
Nonetheless, I will continue to wear my Green & Gold scarfe as I still feel the Glazers are ultimately only involved in United in order to make a lot of money, and I don’t like it. It’s fine, up to a point, when they manage that through success on the field, but they are still removing huge sums, and will continue to do so, as shown in the paperwork of the Bond Issue. In the end, the draining of cash may well be at the expense of the team, if not now, in the future. You can’t go on syphoning off resources for ever, whether in the form of extremely high interest payments for debts that never existed before 2005, or in sums taken by the Glazer family for services that were never previously needed.
As for Patrice Evra, he’s an absolute gem. He speaks up for us fans, potentially to the annoyance of his employers, sympathising with the reasons why we want change. He’s done it in a manner that should not be seen as divisive but which helps continue the dialogue about the future of the club we all love, and which he clearly loves too. And for that we all love him!
Patrice needs a song. Here’s my stab at it
Sung to the tune of “Que Sera Sera”
Oh Ev-ra, Ev-ra
United’s Number three
This Frenchman’s a Red, you see
Oh Ev-ra, Ev-ra
United’s Number three!
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=749635&sec=england&cc=5901
Good to see this green and gold bullshit is really working.(sarcasm)
Get real. Understand business.
“The figures for the six months up to December show turnover up 19% to £144.7 million from £121.7 million for the equivalent period in 2008.
The club’s debt dropped from £538.1 million to £507.5 million and there were increases recorded in matchday revenues, TV money – particularly from the Champions League – and commercial revenue.
Media revenues have increased 33% from £40.3 million to £53.4 million and commercial revenues up 16% from £33.5 million to £38.7 million.”
@ Wakey
Well googled it and I could name a hundred or so but I cant be arsed lol!! Oh and if you had billions in the bank it would still make money its called ‘interest’.
@ RedDeviled Egg
WOW so we are only half a billion in debt!! so still the combined total debt of German football put together then. Brilliant!! (sarcasm)
Gee, please name one large corporation that does not carry some form of debt. With the high revenue turnover that United have we are in no way in dire financial troubles. We are the third most profitable club in world football, and would be ranked first if the pound hadn’t depreciated so greatly against the Euro.
@They Always Score
Without getting too techical a Bond is basically just a different type of loan. The biggest difference is that rather than getting a large chunk from single entity you get lots of smaller amounts from lots of investors (usually the from entities like Fund managers and other finacial entities outside the standard banking system). A Bond has a guarenteed yearly intrest rate (£44mill a season in Uniteds case, paid in two installments a year) and on the maturity date (2017) the amount borrowed is then paid back (In some cases the final fee can be higher or lower than the borrowed amount but if I recall correctly from the documentation with United we have to pay back the exact amount borrowed in 2017).
Why is it better than Bank loan. Theres a few reasons
- Its less restrictive, there were certain conditions that had to be met with the Bank loans that not doing so at best would have seen penalty clauses activated and at worst could see the loan being defaulted on.
- Its more on our terms rather than the banks
- Its released some cash to the Glazers to pay off some of the PIK’s. Without paying off some of some of these the interest rate will jump at the end of this year from 14.25% to 16.25%. The Interest on the PIK’s is atm around £23mill a year, which will jump to around 27mill if the higher rate has to be paid. the 70mill being paid off with save 9mill a season at current rates or 13mill on what would have been budgeted for next year
- The amount of Interest we were paying on the Bank loan yoyo’d as interest rates change. The bonds make it easier to budget as its constant.
Now I know people will say “Why is the second issue a good thing, its just making them more money”. While its true the thing that has to be remembered is in 2017 the bonds need repaid. I suspect that the Glazers will try and refinance some of it in 2017 BUT some of it will probably need paid off. Some of that may come from surplus in the clubs accounts BUT I suspect that the Glazers will loan the club some of it in the way that Abramavich did to handle Chelseas debts and The City lot did. Then somewhere down the line they will then do what Roman and the Sheiks did in Jan and do a Debt for Equity swap where they write the loan off in exchange for preferential shares. Preferential shares are shares that pay out a set dividend each year and these pay out before most other ‘Investor’ payments are made. Again this is just a guess on my part and we won’t know till 2017 as the Glazers will understandably keep there cards to their chest.
@Giles Oakley
As I have said to “They Always Score” I’m not sure the money that goes out to the Glazers won’t effectively come back into the club at a later date. The Bonds mature in 2017 and the 500mill then needs either paid off or refinanced again. I don’t know if the club will have the funds to pay it off in one go so I would imagine they will go the City/Chelsea route and loan some or all the 500mill to the club and then at a later date write it off in exchange for preferential shares.
@Gee
Interest if you have alot of money may be enough to allow you to keep living day to day BUT its not how you increase your worth.
And I doubt you can actually find hundreds of people with billions in the bank. They will have enough to support their lifestyle and the rest will be tied up in investments. Someone like Bill Gates for example may be worth 40bn but he doesn’t have have billions in his bank accounts. Most of its tied up in his Microsoft shares and other investments and assets
RDE – Yeah I saw that as well. Debt has been reduced since the last period. It is staggering to see the amount of fans that clearly have no idea what is going on but are happy to jump on the bandwagon and on certain forums every post is ended LUHG, without them not really understanding anything. It is odd to see them in their G&G coupled with the latest United shirt!!
The argument that debt is good is just laughed off but a smaller example is if you apply for loans or mortgages the provider would rather see that you have debt as opposed to none. As long as it is managed that is.
Or – right king eric, im split on this at the minute, i dont trust the glazers and at the same time im not convinced about the red knights.
King Eric, cheers mate. I’m happy to see some sensible opinions popping up here finally instead of all the anti glazer slurs.
I don’t think anyone really sees the big picture. This green and gold thing really is a farce. It is very localized and it is only a very very small fraction of United supporters that have bought into this trend. Manchester has massive revenue markets outside of the UK , particularily in Asia and North America. This green and gold movement just looks silly to them, as it should to actual supporters.
Obviously there is resentment towards the Glazers because they are not from England and more importantly, not from Manchester. However, the bulk of these Red Knights(at least the ones we know of) are not from Manchester. How then, does this make them greater fans of the team?
Are the Glazers not fans? I don’t think anyone without a deep passion for football and Manchester United would be willing to fork out the cash to buy them, let alone take the abuse that they do.
The Glazers care about this club. They are passionate about it. They are stubborn in their ways of achieving success. They haven’t backed down or showed any weakness as a result of the green and gold farce. And they won’t back down.
In regards to boycotting buying season tickets. Have any of you looked at the waiting list for season tickets at OT???? If anything it would be a good thing if the ‘regulars’ didn’t renew. It would give a lot of other fans, fans that care about football and not trendy scarves, a chance to watch the greatest club in the world live.
Guys – off topic, but I’m looking to buy two united scarves [GnG and Red]…any website that you can suggest outside of the utd store. Oh and these have to be delivered to the US.
On topic – We love you Evra, we really do. You are the left back and the player every team wants and we are so very proud that you are a red devil.
Wakey, fair play, you seem to know what you’re talking about and certainly have a lot of information at your disposal. Maybe you are right about the ‘Red Knights’, as I have stated previously I am by no means convinced they are able to improve the situation at the club and I am certainly not jumping on that particular bandwagon. Keith Harris’ statements are very suspicious and not very subtle in their aims. He is obviously using the protest, and the fan’s anger at the Glazers, for his own means, to try and push through a deal that will probably make him a lot of money. I am under no illusions about that.
That doesn’t stop my anger at the Glazers though and the way they run the club. I am angry that they put the most profitable sports club in the world into debt and that now a significant amount of our profit must be used to pay off interest. Sure, we’ve been successful in the past three (fingers crossed, four) years but I get the sense things are starting to change and that money for transfers is starting to dry up. Where exactly did the Ronaldo money go? I am not convinced by the spin regarding that issue. We have never been a club that has needed to sell before buying but I fear that is where we are heading with all this interest hanging over our heads, however ‘manageable’ you argue it is.
It is a very worrying situation with no obvious solutions. I trust in our players though to do us proud, as they are doing, Evra as much as anyone, he is fucking quality! If we win the league this year it will be absolutely epic, one of our greatest achievements. BELIEVE.
Oily norwood scored for the u21′s.
@ Wakey
thank you for explaininhg the bonds. I read this site a lot and there’s a lot of anger displayed, which is understandable, but is expressed without a full understanding of the complex financial issues. It’s great that someones taken the time to explain it. We all obviously want the best for our team and I have to trust that the Glazers know what they’re doing. We know little about the Red Knights to be showing blind faith in them and hatred of the Glazers seems to be fueling this. Who says they’ll be any better? We are still achieving on the pitch. We have our first trophy of the season and have achieved a lot of great success during the Glazers tenure. If people want to protest that’s their right but let’s not stop buying season tickets and harming our teams chance of further success. We are at the grounds to support our team and let’s not forget to sing their songs.
@RedDeviled Egg
“Are the Glazers not fans? I don’t think anyone without a deep passion for football and Manchester United would be willing to fork out the cash to buy them, let alone take the abuse that they do”
I don’t think they are United Fans or even Football fans BUT I think thats why they don’t interfere with the running of the club.
I suspect they learnt a lesson from Tampa Bay about buying sports teams on ‘passion’. They were fans of Tampa and threw stupid amounts of money at the club to get the fans what they wanted (A super bowl win) but that wasn’t enough for the Buccs fans. With the Draft picks they had to give up to get that Super Bowl win only to then have players and staff get inflated egos and cause major internal issues which hindered the team. The Fans then turned on the Glazers because the level dropped from the Super Bowl winning level and the Glazers started to want to see a return rather than throwing money at the team.
As such with the United ownership they aren’t running on emotion. They are concerned only with running a successful business
@McQueen
“Where exactly did the Ronaldo money go?”
Its in the clubs Bank account. You can see it in the accounts
“We have never been a club that has needed to sell before buying but I fear that is where we are heading with all this interest hanging over our heads, however ‘manageable’ you argue it is.”
That is where we are heading BUT NOT due to the debts. Its the way every Premiership team is heading due to the Squad rules for next season where you have to name 25 players to use through the season. Unless you are buying u21′s then ‘First team’ players will need moved out before new players can be signed
Selling any assets for a sports team is non-productive. You obviously can’t go silly and spend ridiculous amounts but if you want to win things you can’t be selling assets for the money. Being successful on the pitch brings in alot more money than selling a player ever will. Also remember that the profits AFTER servicing the debt is over 90mill a season so its not like we are struggling for money. Even in the last quarter we made 6.9mill profit and we are at the period of the year where unless you sell players in the Jan Window (Which we didn’t) is very hard for teams to make a profit as theres no prize money to be made (Infact the year before in this quarter the club lost 2.7mill and that was with us actually winning something in that quater – the world club championship)
Its just like the whole claim that they want to sell OT and Carrington. Selling these off would be counter productive, just ask the likes of Crystal Palace what one of the main causes for their issues was and they will tell you its the fact they didn’t hold the freehold on their faculties
“Obviously there is resentment towards the Glazers because they are not from England and more importantly, not from Manchester. However, the bulk of these Red Knights(at least the ones we know of) are not from Manchester. How then, does this make them greater fans of the team?
Are the Glazers not fans? I don’t think anyone without a deep passion for football and Manchester United would be willing to fork out the cash to buy them, let alone take the abuse that they do.
The Glazers care about this club. They are passionate about it. They are stubborn in their ways of achieving success. They haven’t backed down or showed any weakness as a result of the green and gold farce. And they won’t back down.”
Biggest pile of SHITE I’ve ever read. The Glazers are passionate United fans? People only dislike them because they are American? You pro-Glazer carpetbaggers are a patronising bunch aren’t you?
Fred, I appreciate your educated, researched, and well balanced arguments towards my earlier posts.
Your knowledge and candor are greatly appreciated.
Your facts and opinions rightly put me in my place.
@Fred
“You pro-Glazer carpetbaggers are a patronising bunch aren’t you?”
Coming from you thats the richest thing I have ever seen. Your constant jibes and insults, your patronising nicknames you give us, the fact you look at ways to put others down and make things up to try and discredit others views makes you as guilty if not more guilty of being patronising.
And while I do agree that what is factually wrong its no more wrong that many of the things you put your weight behind
Additionally, if the Glazers were truly ruining this club do you not think Sir Alex would step up and make his voice heard on the subject.
Nobody in their right mind would question his assessment of the club. He can and does do and say whatever he wants when it comes to this club.
He has had nothing to say about the Glazers ruining things.
Fred, you also never got back to me on how many people there are on the waiting list for season tickets at OT. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
1st post. Great blog Scott , been following for a while. It seems a handful feel it necessary to debate what is already decided. It’s annoying as it distorts the ratio massively, making it seem there is division, when in truth there is non – as the g&g proves. They spend hours on here vainly trying to dissuade the passionate masses…
78,383 on the counter…seems Obama’s lot have started work – 10,000 new members in a few hours.
ooh ahh Evra
@ RedDeviled egg
Manchester Utd was debt free prior to Glazers mate, and that’s the only ‘corporation’ I’m arsed about, and it’s pretty big I’d say.
@ Wakey
You are abit to serious sometimes aren’t you mate, I’m having a giggle with you. If I wanted a debate about business I’d go on wallstreet.com or some shit lol!!
I think everyone supported the Earlier crusades. Are we making the same mistake again?
i love evra always gives 100 per cent on the pitch and truly loves the club
everyday i try as hard as i can not to think about the fucking glazers and this whole debt issue but they’re always talking about it.
and lets talk less about shitty cause we give them importance.
i am kind person but i can burn the glazers alive.
love united love united much more than my girlfriend shuuut.
Wakey, it might be in the club bank account but I was hoping, after making 80 million from the sale of one player, that we might’ve reinvested a bit more than 17 million on new talent. I feel that with the addition of a skillful, goal scoring midfielder we could’ve run away with the league this year. Maybe David Silva. We might not have got him, or we may have had to pay a ridiculus amount, but a bid of £30-35 million wouldn’t be too outrageous considering the Ronaldo sale.
@ RedDeviled Egg – Fred was right about your comment, it was bollocks, even Wakey thinks so. The Glazers are not United fans, they only care about money. Wakey is trying to argue that is not necessarily a bad thing (and doing quite a good job of it), you are just chatting shit and embarassing yourself.
“The Glazers care about this club. They are passionate about it.”
Don’t make me laugh!
@McQueen
The thing is with David Silva is the season before we had a €25million offer accepted for him the summer before. Valencia then started playing silly buggers and then decided to withdraw their acceptance demanding more. Silva also refuses to make up his mind if he actually want to go or even would be willing to join us which doesn’t help
Valencia did the same this summer with David Villa. Real had an offer accepted and then the acceptance withdrawn, Real caved and bid higher (£45mill apparently) be Valencia wouldn’t accept it so eventually Real switched focus to Benzema because we had an offer accepted on Benzema. Barca then tried to get him and despite claiming they wanted to sell him Valencia messed them around again.
To buy any Valencia player Valencia really need to first decide what they want to do. Are they a team in trouble who needs to sell or are they a team who doesn’t need to sell. Otherwise they are just going to waste everyones time before demanding silly money.
And I do think £30-35mill is silly money for Silva and I’m guessing most clubs hold the same view hence why he is highly rated but the only team thats been confirmed to have put in an official bid is us
McQueen – Hello mate. David Silva isn’t a “goal scoring” midfielder though. He has about 20 career goals at club level. I think Fergie was waiting to see how Valencia and Nani got on with particularly Nani on the left. We will see in the summer anyway.
Wakey – Of course 30-35 million is ridiculous for Silva, spot on.
Capel is a far better option than silva and would be cheaper.
King Eric – Hey mate, ok you’re right he is not exactly prolific but he plays high up the pitch and I think he has the potential to score goals at a club like ours and would be a great asset. £30-35 mill is obviously a lot of money but the guy’s 23 with a lot of good years ahead of him and I feel one can afford to be a little bit loose with the wallet after recieving £80 million from one player! Maybe at this stage he is still too much of a gamble at that price but as you can probably tell I am a big fan of the guy lol.
Plus Nani is not looking like a long term option on the left. Silva has a beautiful left foot (obviously being left footed helps) and could be a long term replacement for Giggsy. Right-wing we’re sorted but on the left we need some pace and flair that Park just doesn’t offer. Silva > Obertan (if a lot more expensive)