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Free Holiday Or Worthwhile Experience?

So the Manchester United players jet off to the Middle East whilst Manchester is frozen over, with snow storm after snow storm, and we’re expected to believe that it’s not just a holiday?

The lads returned from Qatar today after spending a few days at the ASPIRE academy and the manager has been full of praise about the trip.

“It’s been a memorable experience and ASPIRE’s complex is without question the best I have ever seen,” said Ferguson. “Not only that, the operation is so well managed that it has made our stay very easy and relaxed. We hope that this journey is not our last here and that it will initiate a true bond between Manchester United and our friends at ASPIRE and in Qatar.”

It’s good to know that whilst the fans are left reading about our massive debt day after the day, the club are putting what money we do have to good use. Hmmm.

However, I’m sure this trip was good for a few things. ASPIRE claim they are “a leading elite sports institute in the world” and are “recognised for state-of-the-art sport science”. So it’s got to be good for something, right? Plus a bit of team bonding amongst the squad could be handy. It doesn’t hurt for them to escape all the slatings the club is currently receiving in the press and a bit of sun at this time of year could certainly lift their spirits.

Still not entirely convinced.



About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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131 Comments

  1. Red Devil says:

    @ Corea, AIG, Onkar

    I have got all your mails guys :)
    Always nice to know fellow Reds! (not the Scouse type ;) )

    Will soon be responding to them as and when my work allows it.
    Onkar, no need to worry about the inbox mate, google’s got plenty of space!

  2. King Eric says:

    Costas – Morning mate. If it was as bad as the tabloids make out it would be headline news on the News at Ten. It doesn’t even make Sport headlines.

  3. Wakey says:

    @mufcmyreligion

    You are letting the ‘debt’ figures and the idiotic media reports cloud your judgement. Sure the figures don’t seem great but it isn’t anywhere near the problem the Football press keeps making out. Those in the know will tell you the running of the club is very well done, financially its fairly secure and that the Glazers aren’t taking an unusual amount out of the club (Once again they have taken out of the club about the same amount since owning the club as the shareholders were taking EVERY YEAR)

    I mean seriously do you want to be like City or Chelsea and support a club where its just a play thing for them. Where they throw money at players that the manager doesn’t want, where they interfere with team selection, sack the manager for little reason, try and be the ‘star’ players best friend by allowing them to undermine the manager and where they use the money to get away with doing whatever they like. The Glazers are actually not that bad as to them its a business and they realise that success on the pitch is important and that they have to listen to the football people at the club and then at any minute they could get bored of it and leave a club who doesn’t have a sustainable business modal so it has to be asset stripped (Unlike us if Chelsea or City were to have their owners get sick of it they would struggle to continue at their level as the business’s aren’t viable. They would require another Sugar Daddy. We wouldn’t need a sugar daddy owner to keep operating at a top level)

  4. Wakey says:

    @rooney the new king

    Will United just agree with any demands that Rooney makes. Ofc not as contracts are about negotiating so both parties get what they want. The bond document makes clear making sure we are able to keep our top players and add additional top players is a priority. Ronaldo wanted to go so it was a case of having to cash in now BUT Rooney doesn’t so a deal will be signed.

    Wheres the proof that Ronaldos money has gone to the Glazers? There is none. Fergie says the moneys there to spend if he can find a player he wants and who he feels is in a price range he thinks is acceptable

    As for the Training Ground, its not being sold. Its listed as something that could be done as part of the Risk Section of the Bond document but isn’t something thats happening its just a worst case. Its the same for every club with a training ground risks in the worst case

  5. Wakey says:

    @rooney the new king

    Our Profits aren’t being 100% wiped out. The figures weren’t for the club but the holding company who has made a loss every year apart from this year. The holding company is almost certainly expected to make a loss. The club accounts which come out in the summer had us making 80-90mill profit

    Fergie said there wasn’t any value because the prices went through the roof. Real and City made average players worth significantly more. We got 80mill for Ronaldo and would it have really made sense to have to blow almost all of it on a single player who isn’t half as good as him.

    As for us being worse off than Liverpool. Seriously you are deluded.Liverpool are no where near as profitable as us, they were bought in an almost identical manner to us but at intrest rates much worse than ours (And the waited so long to refinace them that they didn’t improve the situation anywhere near what the Glazers did on theres), we have had the money to buy good players to improve the team which they haven’t (they are a two man team and 99% of their purchases have been Cheaper but MASSIVE flops) and they have had to sell off other assets to cover themselves (Which the Glazers haven’t had to do) and they are still in trouble because of the lost money due to this seasons poor showing and it could be even worse if they don’t make top4

    And Once again “They aren’t selling players or the training ground”. Please stop listening to the press and actually UNDERSTAND what you are talking about.

    And the money the Glazer ‘kids’ too were LOANS. They haven’t hence taken a penny. And the Management fees that the Glazers have taken are normal and LOWER than the Shareholders took EVERY YEAR. These loans and the management fees will be accountancy/tax deductions

  6. Wakey says:

    @Red Devil

    Because atm theres no need for them to touch there other assets. Remember the PIK loans are in the Glazers name and its the whole Glazer group who are responable for these. Theres no point selling off assets that play a part in servicing these PIK debts as its just a short term fix thats short sighted.

    You can guarentee that if things got really bad they would start selling off other assets just as Hicks and Gillette had to

    However the bond issue that mentions the sell and lease back of assets is connected to Man Utd not the group so in the ‘risk assesment’ section they can only really talk about United assets

  7. NotoriousRedDevil says:

    @Wakey I like how you want to gloss everything over. I’ll admit nothing drastic will happen in the near future but you seem to be missing the point about everyones anger. We were a club who never had to contemplate selling their training ground now these last 7 days alone, Old Trafford, Carrington, Rooney and Vidic are all being linked to being sold. You can tell me as much as you like “How many Businesses run in debt?” or how selling assets is “a worst case scenario.” and the funniest one “the glazers aren’t that bad!” Fact is, these things weren’t spoked about pre-glazer and are now. Also many of our supporters are pining for a rich billionaire to come in for us a situation nobody really wanted either but now are hands are tied. The glazers have come in and created a whole host of problems that weren’t there before. In the process it appears we have less money to spend than Birmingham!

  8. Suprah says:

    Well, the Pakistan national football team also had a few days at ASPIRE back in late November for the 2009 SAFF Cup that was held in December … unfortunately the team still failed to win it -_-

  9. utdforever says:

    Great idea to lift spirits and come back refreshed… we needed that break and hopefully we can go on a winning run from here! Rio and Hargo are back in full training as is VDS.. time to deliver!!

  10. Dimitar Berbatov is King says:

    It isn’t a bad idea considering Liverpool’s status, with all their important players down…

  11. MG says:

    @Suprah

    Not sounding daft but:

    There is a big difference between Manchester United FC and Pakistan both training at Aspire in Qatar

    Seriously there is: And United are not Pakistan FC if you get the drift

    United could rip most national sides apart with all due respect

  12. Wakey says:

    @NotoriousRedDevil

    Its not glossing over anything. Its called being realistic and not being used by the media as puppets to try and unsettle things at the club and to sell papers.

    Everything thats been levied at the Glaziers by some sections of the Fans and the media has yet to actually be proved, its all based on a few snippets taken out of context and taken as fact. People are simply upset about the Glaziers because

    a) The debt to a laymen looks really bad
    b) The media is spinning all kinds of lies
    c) Groups like MUST have an axe to grind because they are idealists

    And you say the problems didn’t exist before the Glaziers. Sure the problems are sometimes slightly different but they did exist. If anyone has a Share issue booklet from when the shares were initially issues the Selling of the Training Ground and Stadium will have no doubt been mentioned in that as part of the risks. Even if it wasn’t its something that exists in all clubs. Any club could get into problems and assets like facilities are fall back options for them. Its only had to be mentioned for disclosure reasons as they are trying to increase profits further which is good for the club

    And alot of people complain about the money the Glazers have taken which was around £20million over 3.5 years, 10mill of which was loans and the rest management fees. Those loans have to be repaid so in reality their drawings are £10mill. As a PLC there would have been “Management Fees” or something similar on the books, so its unlikely they are drawing any more than was paid out anyway. THEN you have the dividend payments to shareholders when it was a PLC, these came to over £20million a year so over the same period they would have taken in excess of £65mill. And with the improved profits the clubs showing this dividends if we were still a PLC would be even higher.

    And atleast now we don’t have to bother as much about profits as we did as a PLC. We need to make enough to pay everything off but that it. Before we had to put the Shareholders interests first which caused us to have to haggle on prices even more (Ronaldiniho anyone) and also our transfer targets are more secretive so we don’t get beaten to the punch or get forced into paying more as much.

    Now yes without the interest payments things would be even better but at the same time now being a private company it has actually helped improve the way the club is run and has also helped us on the field too.

    Oh and the bond issue will actually reduce the interest payments significantly. Every percent lower the interest rate on the bond is is £7million more profit on the accounts, so if its 8.5% like the initial talk was (And on early orders they are saying it may even be over subscribed so may even be lower) we would be saving something like £18million a year in interest payments

    As for having less money to spend than Birmingham, its debatable. Carson Yeung certainly has more money he wants to invest than the previous owners but back in the summer he was talking about a £5mill budget so its unlikely to have risen too far. If anything he seems more ‘Glazer’ like than the City/Chelsea lot and seems to want to listen to and support the football people at the club rather than throw money and force their hands in player acquisition. United have money to spend on players as the Bond Booklet makes completely clear

  13. rooney the new king says:

    Wakey – are you dumb or just in denial the cash is gone it is that simple some experts have said this. You have the nerve to give MUST stick. when United were a PLC we were never going into losses, 325 million has gone missing, all uniteds profits and the ronaldo cash has been wiped out by this horrible debt. To say just because united had to be more open has a PLC in transfers and now the club is private owned united can be more private, that makes united a far better run club is a complete joke, the last thing united are these days is well run we are one of the worse run clubs in the game today maybe te worse run club in terms of finances.

    - ronaldinho always had eyes for barca and who did we get instead cristiano ronaldo so you point has no grounds to stand on.

    - has a PLC was old trafford key players and carrington ever up for discussions to be sold not a chance.

    - has a PLC did anyone wipe out our entire profits the club made on hideos debts, what ever points you come up with I will counter it with positions the club are in currently which have made the club worse than 7 years ago.

    - has a PLC in 2001 and 2002 the club spent in total 80 million on transfers with ferguson saying you pay what you get and basically you pay the going rate, now fergie says there is no value for money.

  14. King Eric says:

    rtnk – Haven’t read your full post as leaving work but saw your last point. The world is a very different place to 2001-2002. The word recession comes to mind. Plus Fergie probably feels he has had his fingers burned paying way over the odds. Don’t get me wrong, I ain’t siding with the Yanks but just think it is pointless getting enraged at this stage. As I said earlier if it was as big a mess as the tabloids would have us believe it would be the main headlines on News at Ten etc. It doesn’t even make the sports news.

  15. rooney the new king says:

    King Eric – I know you are not with the yanks anyone with a brain cant be, but king eric if you do still check this page mate what I am trying to get across is united are making insane losses at the back of our most succesful period under ferguson since our last hatrick of titles between 99 – 2001.

    At the back end of the 07/08 season united made 47 million pound loss for winning the prem and european cup our most historic season since 1999, call me crazy but that is complete insanity, what club makes that kind of loss.

    The money united have made between 2006 – 2009
    in terms of gate revenue
    tv money
    shirt sponsership money
    players sold like ronaldo etc
    ticket prices gone up

    the number of games united appeared in that time period are massive

    This kind of money made should be going into making old trafford even bigger, getting that south stand rebuilt we would make even more money. with all this success in normal circumstances united would propably be spending really big and making a big impact in the transfer market, we did it in 2001 with van nistlerooy and veron.

    United under a PLC we would propably be investing huge cash into big players and stadium expansion, I have always said this big clubs spend big they dont say we want value for money, when we have spend big on some players we have never got value for money.

  16. aig alex is god says:

    rtnk

    chill mate. why are you still on about the debt. It is angering all of us but we cant do anything about it. Lets talk about things on the pitch and back the team on the field so that atleast we can keep on winning trophies and hopefully will improve the financial outcome positively in some way

  17. rooney the new king says:

    aig alex is god – because it has to be said, thats the problem success on the pitch papers over the cracks on what the real problem is the glazers. the current team sums up of what the glazers have done to the club, short of quality in certain areas like upfront.

  18. Mozza79 says:

    Everyone is obsessed with the debt all spurred on by the non stop bombardment of doom and gloom article after article from the ABU media. Has nobody understood yet that United sell papers and ANY sensationalisation of a story will be taken to it’s full conclusion. Of course the debt is a problem but all we can do as fans at the moment is get behind our club and our manager, who doesn’t seem overly fazed by anything as it happens. When Fergie starts to say it’s affecting his ability to make decisions to make the football club better then I’ll start to get worried and we all know what type of man he is and that he’s not the type to stay quiet for owners he owes nothing to especially at this late stage of his career. Everyone just calm down a bit.

    Anyway on to the article which I thought was very negative. Scott I think this was just what the players needed. A trip away from the weather and negativity from the press(and fans it seems) was just what the doctor ordered. Remember the effect the Brazil trip had? It’s hard to quantify what a bit of exercise in the revitalising sunshine can do for you. It also won’t have hurt the general morale for everyone else to see VDS, Rio and Hargreaves out there training with them it will have given them all confidence that the squad is coming together nicely for a decent run at the 2nd half of the season. Just my opinion of course.

  19. rooney the new king says:

    Mozza79 – I hope the media sensationalise it even more, because I want the glazers to be seen has Parasites even more it gets the message to other fans they are the enemy.

    this is what malcolm glazer and his clan of freaks are – A parasite or parasites is An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

  20. mufcmyreligion says:

    If you dont see it today you will see it one day, our cub will never be the same again!

    LOVE UNITED HATE GLAZERS

  21. Mozza79 says:

    rooney the new king I guess that’s where you and I differ. Yes I’d like the Glazers to fuck off so we wouldn’t have however many million it is going towards interest payments but ultimately I’m not really arsed who owns the football club as long as we continue to win trophies. Everyone is panicking because we’ve had some bad results lately but they need to calm the fuck down. I’ve heard a lot of “yeah we’ve had a lot of injuries but”….no..no buts..we’ve had an injury crisis the likes of which we’ve never seen basically since pre season. We entered this season without our first choice goalkeeper, our two world class centre backs and one of our central midfielders(Hargreaves obviously) out and it’s been a case of get one back lose two get one back lose three since then. Think about it, at one stage we had our two best available central midfielders playing in defence. And don’t think our injuries have been confined to defensive positions either, Fletcher, Scholes and Nani have all spent considerable time out, Scholes and Nani at the worst possible time. Then up front you look at the stats and see Berbatov has only started 12 of 22 league games and he was only ‘rested’ for 2 of the 10 he’s missed, the rest were miss through injury. I don’t think it’s ridiculous to make the claim that should we have had a ‘normal’ injury situation so far, like for instance Chelsea, then we’d be quite a few points clear in the league and everything would be hunky dory. Here’s an interesting stat for you, in the 11 games that Berbatov and Rooney have started in something approaching our first team in a 4-4-2 our record is P11 W9 D1 L1. Think about it.

  22. mufcmyreligion says:

    Good stats mozza, and good point. We just need a good result tommorrow so that Sundays papers are filled with the news of a win and not a loss and more debt stories!!!

    LOVE UNITED HATE GLAZERS

  23. Wakey says:

    @rooney the new king

    Do you just pluck these so called ‘facts’ of yours out of your arse? Infact left me just ask you this are you infact Rafa Benitez?

    - What exactly is this £325million you speak of thats gone ‘missing’? Thats a completly made up figure, a figure thats even an insane person must realise isn’t even viable. The club only have debts of £550mill so with your figures you are claiming that we are effectively paying interest rates of 59%.

    - Where have United Profits been wiped out by the debt? You are quoting the Holding companies profits which aren’t actually the clubs profits. The club made a £91mill profit last year which DOESN’T include the sale of Ronaldo.

    - How are United the worst run club? The Glaziers have increased profits to 91million a year which is DOUBLE the profits before they took over and the amount spent on transfers is comparable, although transfers have been a bit smarter and less inflated (Due to us getting them done in private before others jack the price up)

    - Did the PLC have Old Trafford, Key players and carrington up for discussions to be sold? Its not being discussed now. Why can’t you and the papers get it into your simple little minds around this. The sales of any of these HAVEN’T actually been discussed. Its in a RISK section where they have to layout the options if the worst case happens. If Apple were to offer a Bond issue they would have to discuss the risks even if they had almost no chance of happening and would have to list what assets they have that could be used to offset that risk.

    - For a Second time the Glazers haven’t wiped out the profit. Last Year we made 91million which is double the last year of the PLC

    - The Glazers haven’t spent much less than that in each of the years they have been in charge. But the Market atm is ridiculous, if we were to buy Veron today at the level and age he was when we bought him you would be looking at 50mill plus. Its one thing to pay a fair market price, its another to pay inflated prices for substandard players.

    - United as a PLC would be investing in huge players and stadium expansion. Firstly do you seriously think the PLC would be expanding the stadium further? Where exactly would this expansion happen? The south stand is the only obvious place for expansion but the Railway behind the stand causes major obstacles to that. The press actually ran a story about us expanding the stadium to which United responded that ways to expand further have and are being investigated so its not like they aren’t looking either. As for players, seriously if you are going to spout shit then read the Bond Broacher and ensure that you understand it. Check the numerous mentions that keeping the star players and adding more world class talent to the squad through transfers is a necessity as on field success brings off field success

  24. rooney the new king says:

    Wakey – well you are starting to look silly. lets look at the points you have made.

    - You say united only have 550 million pound of debt, no the figure stands at 770 million and rising.

    - The 08/09 season was perhaps uniteds most succesful season in terms of money made and compititon appearences, it took an insane amount of money from madrid for united to have made a profit. That means you take the 80 million of ronaldos sale united made a loss, on the back end of united were only 1 game away from managing to get to every major compitition unted entered that season. That says it all financially united are the worse run club in the game.

    - in the 07/08 season our best season since 99 under ferguson the club made a 47 million pound loss.

    - LOL the glazers increased profits you are having a laugh, fergie the coaching staff and the players made that profit by how they performed, with ronaldo rooney ferdinand scholes giggs etc all here before they arrived, add the fact the tv money went up, the prize money for trophys won, give a pat on the back to fergie and the players not the glazers. Also how did they partly increase profits by coming up with a cup scheme making all united fans pay for all 4 compititons and hiking ticket prices, yea they really have done a good job increasing profits.

    - Hmm did the PLC discuss selling carrington old trafford and the players not a chance, well the PLC did help expand modern old trafford from 56,000 to 68,000 to 76,000, united with how much money has been made it would cost a fortune but united could expand the south stand but they cant afford to do it now because of this debt infested takeover. We spent well over 100 million on players like york stam ferdinand van nistlerooy veron rooney ronaldo yea we spent very little back then.

    the 325 million is true, that is how much money that has been payed for the debt interest payments their brats taking money out of the club for themselves.

    - the fact is the market prices are an excuse for the glazers because they have wiped all the ronaldo cash and the profits, the money is gone especially when you see the figures present. When ferguson says there is no value for money then thats the evidence the money is not there.

  25. Mozza79 says:

    Wakey you’re wasting your time. Some people would rather believe tabloid hacks working for rags who’s only interest is selling papers over Alex fucking Ferguson it seems. Leave them to it.

  26. Wakey says:

    1) Its £550million. The PIK’s are NOT UNITED DEBTS. You are also including the money that the GLAZERS themselves paid outright as being a debt.

    2) The Debt isn’t really rising. If you take out a loan of £500 and pay off your interest each month how much do you owe when it matures? Guess what you owe £500. If you want to be pedantic then the debt actually decreases as Inflation means the £500 you borrow is actually worth more than the £500 you pay back at the end.

    3) Once again the accounts you are talking about are from the HOLDING COMPANY not the club. The last Club accounts which I believe were for April 08 to April 09 showed a PROFIT of £91million and didn’t include the sale of Ronaldo

    4) 47million loss, you sure? The holding Company made something like a £23million loss for 2008.

    5) Yes some of the increased profits were from increasing Ticket prices but in a Supply and Demand world that was always going to happen especially when our Rivals were charging alot more without half the demand. Its sad but true. However that is far from the only reason. The profits increased because
    a) The Glazers brought with them better business practices that improved the efficiency and meant we were run more like a Business
    b) They found new revenue sources and new sponsorship and marketing opertunities
    c) They were supportive of the football side and let it flourish.
    The Glazers are a major reason for our increased profits. Oh and you should really make up your mind, you claim there was a loss made and then when answering this point agree profit was increased

    6) I can’t back this up as I don’t have access to the original share issue booklet BUT It wouldn’t be to surprising is again in a Risk section the sale of OT and The Cliff wasn’t mentioned or the selling of players. Its a RISK section and you are duty bound to let investors know every possible risk and the ‘outcome’ if those risks happened. You really need to understand this fact as its vital and its what most of the ABU’s in the media are totally ignoring

    7) Have you been to Old Trafford?. The South Stand backs onto the Railway line. Expansion of the South stand would also require the purchase of a number of residents houses (50-100) so they could be demolished. All this makes expanding the South Stand extremely hard to get sorted. The disruption to the area would also make the planning process very hard to get through and could take forever to get the plans passed. Finally the Upgrades you are talking about the PLC cost a combined amount of £114million spread over a number of developments over 14 years. To add a second tier to the South Stand and to fill the quadrants in would take capacity upto around 96,000 BUT with all the issues to work through its estimated it would cost at least the £114mill the rest of the upgrades cost. And Ideally they would probably prefer to make it 3 tiered like the North Stand so that would be even more

    Oh and the Quadrants being filled in were done under the Glazers also so that last part of the development of the stadium was there doing

    8) Since the Glazers took over we have spent more than £162million on transfer fees. The full list is
    Park £4mill
    VdS £2mill
    Vidic £7mill
    Evra £5.5mill
    Carrick £18.6mill
    Kuszczak £2.125mill
    Foster £1mill
    Nani £17mill
    Anderson £18mill
    Hargreaves £17mill
    Tevez £10mill Loan
    Berbatov £30.75mill
    Tosic £9mill
    Obertan £3mill
    Valenica £17mill
    Diouf UnDisc
    Muncicho UnDisc
    de Laet £0.1m

    Ontop of that there has been great investment into youth footballers from other countries which often come with some form of compensation due. And I didn’t say the PLC spent very little money on players. Just that in the current climate the PLC also wouldn’t be able to pay the kind of fees being looked at.

    9) I still think your £325mill is well off unless you are including the PIK’s in that as well. But the PIK’s are not on United books. They are Glazer debts and you wouldn’t say Tampa Bay were in debt because of the 500mill debt in United. These PIK’s could obviously impact United as United is a Glazer asset but its the same for all the assets they own.

    10) The Glazer Brats haven’t taken a penny in Reality. They have taken LOANS from the club. Almost certainly done for Accounting reasons. Loans are things which are paid back so its still a club asset

    11) The Management Fees are not unusual and they would have been paid also as a PLC

    12) Even if we assume that you are right and its £325mill its not the whole story. Even with the debt our profits are higher and we don’t have massive Dividends to pay shareholders every year. And when £500mill of the £550mill is swapped in the bond issue the lower interest rates makes will increase the profits by atleast another £16-18mill (and with early orders suggesting that the bond might even be over subscribed the actual intrest rate may be even lower thus pushing it into the low to mid 20mill extra)

    13) The figures DO NOT indicate there is no cash for Transfers. The Bond Issue booklet once again even expressly states that there is money to bring in top players while keeping the current top class players at the club

  27. Mozza79 says:

    Wakey honestly mate you’re pissing up against the wall.

  28. Suprah says:

    @ MG

    lol, I know what you mean mate. I have a bad habit of finding and predicting trends (which often dont end up working well to what I think) -_-

  29. Wakey says:

    @Mozza79

    You are probally right but if my posting can prevent him recruiting just one more person to the hate filled, twisting of facts that the abu media has started to scaremongering, sell papers and disrupt the club by trying to turn the fans against the club then it’s worth doing.

    After all no matter how much any of us hate the glazers we have to be realistic and that means that most of the things the media reports about them that many fans then jump on are misreported and hence most of the fans problems with them are misfounded

  30. NotoriousRedDevil says:

    @ Wakey – Its exactly your mentality that probably got our club taken over in the first place. Add to the fact a ticket that was £23 has risen to near on £40 in less than 5 years, well run club my arse. End of the day since glazers come in they don’t give a shit about the supporters and judging by the sound of things neither do you. If we wait till the shit hits the fan it will be too late. I don’t expect you to be bothered because clearly you must be on £60K a year or something so you can afford the corporate luxuries, most of the match going fans that make noise can’t afford it anymore. Thats all totally irrelevant to you though?

    @ Mozey “ultimately I’m not really arsed who owns the football club as long as we continue to win trophies.”

    Few more like you will convince me that our supporters won’t save this club. FYI – I haven’t read a single tabloid this year – all my info is off this site.
    @ RTNK – Spot on with the posts.

  31. marsy the red says:

    Maybe the reason for the trip is looking for new investors

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