The Glazers have revealed a massive u-turn in their IPO proposals in a revised filing of the IPO last night. In the original filing it was made absolutely clear that ALL of the proceeds of the IPO would go to paying down debt the Glazers have loaded onto Manchester United. The revised filing reveals they now plan to take half the IPO proceeds for themselves! This can be seen in the red section in white text. The Glazers are selling the same number of shares as MU Ltd but costs are being loaded onto MU Ltd so Glazers will take more then 50% of net proceeds for themselves.
Furthermore the amount raised to pay down debt will be relatively insignificant (£75m) leaving £350m of their debt still on our club.
Duncan Drasdo, chief executive of the Manchester United Supporters Trust said: “The Glazers have already cost United more than £550m in debt related fees and now another slap in the face as they help themselves to half of the proposed IPO proceeds. Each of the 6 lineal descendants of Malcolm Glazer will claw out $25 million for themselves. Clearly this has nothing to do with benefits for Manchester United and is all about giving the Glazers quick access to desperately needed cash at the expense of our football club. What is the sudden reason for this desperation for cash now? There is now no doubt that this IPO is bad for Manchester United supporters, Manchester United Football Club and any investors gullible enough to pay the inflated price they’ve attached to inferior shares which have just 1/10 of the voting rights of the Glazers shares and no dividends. Their bare faced cheek is almost unbelievable.”
The Guardian report
The Independent report
The Telegraph report
Sky report
Man Utd News 24/7
I think it is disgraceful how far too many fans dont care, i actually find it staggering.
I mentioned this on the old thread and the part part of Duncan Drasdo’e comment sums it up the Glaziers are overvaluing the shares by about 40% obviously gravy money for them to make a bit and still pay down some debt
Looking at what’s been offered and what it brings any investor you’d have to be a sucker to buy the shares in the first place
They’re scum.anyone know any vulnerable billionaires who could be persuaded to buy them out??
The Glazers’ want to milk manunited dry.
Wayne
Its crazy mate to value the club and its assets at over 3 billion to pilfer the revenue generated is as Duncan says bare faced cheek.
I think this could be my last seasno as a ticket holder under this regime, i have resisted it over and over but can no longer just add tro thier pockets. United Money paying off Glazer debt its just unsustainable.
Always supported Gill thinking it was a case of the better the devil you know but as it transpires he is just another greedy cunt. How are your morales David?
To Fergie I wuold ask does he not care anymore? I always maintained he had to side with the Glazers but to now question fans on our integrity and intelligence has hit a new low.
Very bad move from them. Why the hell should they take half the proceeds after promising something different? I was pointing it out this morning. The best thin for the club is for these idiots to be forced into a sale to someone who actually cares how the club does on and off the field.
its a disgrace and the Glazers are morons.
they had create a chance to score a few points with the fans by paying down the debt but instead decided to line there own pockets as usual.
the summer has disappointed transfer wise and they continue to be users.
Sad state of affairs. The debt is still miles away from getting resolved.
I don’t know if we ever got the answer to how the Glazers managed to pay off the PIKs, but if they borrowed that money, maybe this is how they intend to pay it back.
I’ve read elsewhere that although they’re going to be pocketing money from this they’re going to be pocketing money from selling their own shares as opposed to taking money raised from the new ones (money from new shares will still go toward driving down debt). Meaning after the listing they’ll have less ownership of the club (10% less I think).
Of course STD takes this angle, I have read almost all written here, does scott, or just repeat bad reporting.
The guys have laid it out. After a lot of the debt is payed down they get 1/2 of a part of it. !!!!!!
RoM is becoming a place for said reds who in fact do as much or more damage then ABU cunts.
Berba the great if he is so good why is no one bidding for him, cant give him away for 5 mill. Point being all the soccer world see’s what I see in him. A limited box striker that has passed the modern game by. But yet he and dozens still dog other MUFC players trying to make their point.
Now STR attacks the owners in a relentless way, I miss the BERBGASIMS threads compared to this.
Again all MUFC abu fucks ” If not the Glazzers WHAT? WHO? HOW?? JUST SPEWING SHIT HATE!!
People who complain and bitch about the past, with no plan for the future ARE ABU MUFC FANS!!!!!
No matter how much you bitch, IT WILL NOT CHANGE THE PAST.
WE ENTER THE TWILIGHT OF THE GREAT SAF!!!!! CELEBRATE HIS GREATNESS.
GO ROONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
@wayne
Hi mate. Just a question. These shares will be sold for 210 million pounds and they represent 10%. So doesn’t this mean that the club is valued at 2.1 billion pounds? Which is more or less how much they valued the club when the Qatar bid was made? Unless I am missing something and the class B shares are more expensive, hence the 3.3 billion evaluation.
Zibbie are you even a Manchester United fan? That is the worst post I have ever read on here.
Oh wow is me, this sucks. Winning 4 of 6 PL titles, getting the best AMF of the summer. Being part of the greatest PL era finish last year with the most goals for a MUFC team in the PL era, more pointS then the winning total the year beforE with the most games missed in PL history to injury.
YEP TRULY FUCKED WE ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Giggs12Gerrard0 – But don’t you know the glazers are great owners! I really can’t blame you for possibly not renewing your season ticket next season.
In all seriousness though even if the glazers could pay off the debt or significantly reduce it, it seems to me that its more beneficial for them to keep us in debt because they seem to be making a lot of money off us that way.
I won’t be buying shares 3 years ago maybe but not now. Saving to buy my own house is far more important than feeding the greed of the glazers. Even if it does involve the club I love so dearly. Time for our fans abroad to stand up and be counted and put their money where there mouth is. Can’t get to OT fair enough, buy some shares instead, save our club. Make your mark on history go on I dare you.
As for Gill – his son was Youth Team Player of the Year 2 years back and left all that to go university. Says it all really had a great opportunity and IMO wasted it. Money orientated and I’ve stuck up for him in the past. Oh well live and learn.
Read about Fergie potentially making a lot of money out of this. If true thats disappointing, never went with the whole Racehorse fiasco but if this goes through what happened with the Racehorse and the stories about it suddenly hold a lot more credence than they did.
There are fans in favour of the Glazers, there are fans against the Glazers and there are fans like me who sit on the fence,till now !! after these latest shenanigans I place myself firmly in the Glazer gimps out camp, mention United nowadays and the conversation dwells on debt & finances not the brand of football we were once famous for, that is wrong
Fuycking grow up people, honestly are you really that thick. Manchester United is the Glazers as the Glazers are Manchester United. Anti american (americunts) slur put to the side why are you so against this. If we heard that the Glazers sold shares in another investment of theirs to pay off “United debts” (really Glazer debts) we would all be extatic. No hang on I lie, you would all be going fucking american jew ginger scabby hunch back americunts because your all biggotted elitest fekkers. If the Glazers use half their money to improve another business area then theyve produced a business area that has bigger returns of profits. Those higher profits mean less can be taken out of United to fund their lifestyle which is no more luxurious than other millionaires or even money from those profits used to pay off United debts or buy back the stocks they now put out. These are not show off playboys with gold dangling from their arms, bitches in tow, twitter accounts and pimped out range rovers. Fucking grow up.
Glazers – You can count on my full support, I will be investing in the shares.
Giggs12 it’s hard for me to see why anyone would buy these shares don’t pay dividends and only have a 10th voting power to the Glaziers shares.All i can think is because Utd have so many fans Glaziers are hoping that shares will be bought just as a souvenir.
Don’t get me wrong here mate not defending them but with the overvaluation if the shares get sold the net pay down to the debt would be close to the same if Glaziers offered fair market price for the shares even after their cut,pretty well banking on there being enough Utd fans worldwide buying a few shares for prosperity reasons and nothing else
It’s hard for me to believe that Sir Alex doesn’t care anymore i’ve always mantained if he came out against the Glaziers that would be the end of them,in regards to the season ticket mate that’s a choice you have to make,just don’t see these shares being a success unless there’s a lot of mugs
To add i cant even hold my emotions!
Zibbie you call us ABU’s because we love the club yet all you do is support a player that fucking robs us blind every week.
I care about Manchester United and I dont need to have a plan to know the difference between right and wrong. The Galzer ownership model is wrong and all money should pay off their debt not just part of it. They are pilfering money anyway they can but plastic fans ilke you just dont care.
As long as Rooney scores or we win a trophy all is forgfotten, fucking unbelievable.
g12 GOOD PEOPLE HERE NEED A SHAKE UP.
g12 NO i’M NOT, just woke 2 hous early to read RoM go to 442 and 4 other sites.
You lads I have no clue where your coming from????
G12 not you, an ABU MUFC fan the whloe thing??? Please think !
Costas – if they had any dignity or respect for united, they would sell the club to PPL who are fit and have the financial muscle to help the club long term. Because their ownership relies totally on the genius of sir alex ferguson. But we all know they have no respect for the club, they continue to leach off the club’s finances. And this latest stunt by them shows how selfish that family truly is
@ thetunnel68 – “mention United nowadays and the conversation dwells on debt & finances not the brand of football we were once famous for, that is wrong”
Spot on fella.
K20
The way it is structured they manage to retain 98% of the controlling shares!! They’re scum bags! Like Giggs I struggle to justify lining their pockets but I’m fucked if a bunch of greedy cunt ass bandits are going to drive me away from watching the club I love play football!!! Sure, if I knew that ditching my ticket would make any difference I’d do it in a heart beat, but it won’t unless one body, one voice, can Unite EVERYONE to boycott the games! Even Just one game played in an empty stadium would make a massive impact, but for every one ticket ditched there are a couple of others picking them up!! Time to get some good old fashioned picket lines set up!!
Zibbie
Oh wow is me, this sucks. Winning 4 of 6 PL titles, getting the best AMF of the summer. Being part of the greatest PL era finish last year with the most goals for a MUFC team in the PL era, more pointS then the winning total the year beforE with the most games missed in PL history to injury.
YEP TRULY FUCKED WE ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The above sums up why some fans dont care, would you think the same had SAF not worked his magic and brought the success in?
Mate I couldnt give a fuck if you got up or not to read a fucking website you should take a veasted interest in how the club is being used.
Goat – It has fuck all to do with them being American, America are its fine people are a great nation and i am fully in love with the place. That aside it just so happens these particular parasites who rape us over and over are American.
G12 no, I am a cub fan, if MUFC go on a gunner run of nothing for years, I will lose my voice yelling at the TV!!!
Costas mate read the valuation in the business section
The team will put $16.7 million on market, $8.3 million in public shares and $8.3 million belonging to the club owner, American businessman Malcolm Glazer. The shares will be sold at $16 and $20, raising a target amount of around $300.6 million.
Zibbie – just because it’s a done deal, and no one has an alternative (which if you read my posts on the previous thread I pointed out as well), does not mean people should not raise their voices against what they think is flat out wrong, and risky, if not potentially harmful, for the club. It’s all very well to be optimistic, but trying to put a silver lining on everything is not very wise, in my opinion. And no need to bring Berba into the discussion, pal…let that one be. We know where you stand, as you do where we stand – let’s just agree to disagree there, shall we?
Zibbie you need to think mate
Its easy to come and blast fans who care far more about the club than the sucess it brings. I am not a glory hunter mate and i want Manchester United to be where it belongs – Glazer sebt free
Costas the article i read last night had it closer to 3.3 bill
Its been there all along. Everything done, is done to fill the Glazers pockets. Yet another summer with big names, but rest asure, they will not come. Its all a media ploy to sell season tickets and bolster value. We all know RVP will end up in City and Moura wont come. Speaking of Moura, he isnt a regular and is valued 10 mill more than Oscar who now is in Chelsea, says everything about how unrealistic it is.
The Glazers do just enough to keep United competitive and get people into the ground, the rest of the money gets pockeded. Just sad, really sad
G12 I get your point and as per a great one. Not me though. I believe in fans like U, travel go to games. Smart and have helped me understand this great club. And as always this is how you feel I back you, support you.
This is how I feel, lost in a world of turmoil, over this. Sure we can vent. Share our views not always to agree. I see more harm then good.
what more can we say about the family, when they slowly start to warm to some united fans, they pull this stunt. How the hell are united ever going to have a spreadsheet? when half the money is going to the banks. Yes we may spend money, and hopefully on another 2 players, but seeing PPL like the glazers get away with complete murder, with this latest stunt, is a very frustrating state of affairs
Giggs12Gerrrad0 you cant do anything about it so why cry about it
Better angle from me, STR puts a slant on it like a witch hunt talk,
??? People who own a company. Do they deserve to make $. As Fletch said on the other post, any one thinks the Glazzers bought this club for us is wacky!
G12 you got me thinking thanks.
I agree with Costas – it’s a PIK payback thing first and rid the debt next
I have nothing further to say – it is what it is – it’s upsetting as a fan I don’t really want to say anything further
With the proposed Chevy deal and the upcoming Nike re-aarangement coming up though – this debt should be gone in at least 3-5years – shame it wasn’t gone now – oh well
Eye is well still doing things and still feels like it’s getting better – who knows God knows I suppose – now I know why Ronaldo used to say that all the time
Be happy that’s all their is to it
19
Zibbie you know i have always stuck up for the Glaziers when i thought lies were being said but on this one if the Glaziers promised to apply all the profits from the shares sold to the debt and now intend to take out 50% can’t defend that mate,Glaziers lied to us
MG – what more can we say, the glazers are like the torries, their porn is pissing us off, and they get jerk off at our expense. If we do not sign this Brazilian, I do wonder if we tried to sign a player we were never going to get. Instead of concentrating on the real problems of the squad, the defence and the midfield. Because we need 3 players, a fullback, a world class CB, and a CM
GGMU
Glazers to stay, we have won trophies and debt is down to 350 million.
Not bad..
19
Giggs12Gerrrad0
The MUST organisation is predominantely a Manchester based organisation which foreign fans of Manchester United have joined or shown support to because of alonging themselves to belong to Manchester United, Manchester and its people. Mancunians have always been against conservative money making policies. Manchester is red is not just a reference to Manchester United but also to the fact they are predominantely socialist (almost to the point of marxist). Look up all voting statistics for Manchester since after the war and you will see that they vote exponentially more left wing than any other part of the country even if the Labour government of the day have really shat a clanger. Manchester has always been anti american, anti capitalist, anti market forces. It is changing, the young like all young dont listen to the old anymore and finally the people are waking up but believe me my friend you will not find a more concentrated area of socialism in the western world than Manchester – not even Sweden.
You dont believe me read the comments on here and you will find anti american specific slurs very very often. We criticise Suarez for his attack on Evra and yet we are all as biggoted on here as that buck toothed dago twat.
Difference is I have my hang ups with certain groups of people and I admit it. The United fans on here and who dont bother – the remaining 648 999 999 800 of them – arent honest enough or have too much hate they cant see through the cloud pooring out their ears to be honest and admit the fact. Ive always said. Manchester United No1, United fans not fit for purpose.
jeet oh I did mate, great post. Discussion for the understanding and betterment is on thing, the spin on this subject another. Lets talk and discus. That is how I came to these views. Read Wakey, the link to that MUFC fan in banking for 15 years. So some reporters who are lazy or what ever, said in an articular somewhere all proceeds go to paying off debt, partiality true, if they reach a certain mark of the sale up to that point 100% goes to debt, after that a 50/50 split as I read it?
the thing is i care alot about the club but facts speak for themselves…since the glazers took over we have been very successful(cant be arsed to name everything)we have also invested alot of money into the club and not just on players but new state of the art training facilities that smash any1 else in the world and also the marketing revenue that they have brought to the club is nothing short of unbelievable, there isnt a club in world football that comes close to uniteds marketing revenue, they truth is the glazers have been paying of the debt,ok not as quick as we would all like but they have invested alot into united aswell so lets not forget that and im sure if we were to go on and sign RVP and moura then ppl would soon shut up….bottom line is they have my full support because they are our owners and great buisnesss men which is good for the club. until the day they stop investing in the club and constantly take money out then i will change my mind…and 1 other, for those who question fergie,s loyalty…shame on u, he loves and respects the fans more than anything and he wouldnt lie would he, think how quick he could have the glazers out of united if he turned…..dont always believe whats in the press…we united supporters should no better than that
Jeet off topic, my buddy who has that 6 frames of the Moriarty film is coming to visit me on Thursday. He can supply you with what you need for the ride.
GO MUFC TO 20!!!!!!!!!!
“Real fans” don’t care about this according to Ferguson.
If he carries on with the condescending bile, a lot of people will look back on him as a puppet in his final days. Just being honest. I don’t see us going into a downward spiral under Fergie but I can see an immediate decline after he leaves while the Glazers are still around.
If that does happen, Fergie will not be remembered as fondly as he should be because he was the man that accused concerned fans of being basically too aware of the debt situation.
“But I think the majority of the real fans will look at it realistically and say it’s not affecting the team.”
The concern from us is the long term future of club and not the current. Fergie is quick to remind us of the success since 2005 but nobody is disputing that, we are complaining and worried about how the fuck the Glazers plan to fund our battle against the richer clubs while being in shitloads of debts that need to be paid off by 2018. We are unhappy about the net spend, the interest payments, the IPO, the glazers rinsing our pockets ( season tickets etc).
The big men at the club just see us as idiots that can be hushed with a simple ” as long as we’re winning, all is sunny”. No….that is unacceptable.
I’m one of those that have supported SAFs backing of the Glazers because he must do it to keep the peace and be diplomatic. But to take a stab at us for our concern, crossed the line between being the middle man. It just shows who he is at the end….certainly not a man of the people, just like Gill, he is willing to be politician in all this and feed us scraps of truth.
In future I hope he keeps his silence, his input is not needed if he’s going to accuse fans of being over indulged in the financial aspect of OUR CLUB !
its all been simmering nicely. Knew they’d be a post up soon.
Get in STR.
Croweyp
Because i love the club do you not?
Fucking unreal, its ok just go and buy the shirt and hope we win a trophy that will smoke screen the way in which are great club is being used.
I dont know about you mate but I can never remember choosing United i was just informed by my old man. Growing up the pride of wearing the shirt even when we were dross, The first time i went to OT watching Bryan Robson play a pitch more like a cow patch. Growing up and having a sesson ticket with my grandad, catching the bus to the ground to meet him and bounce in the K stand. Wiining the league for the first time in 92 and what it meant to Reds and the joy you could see in older generations. Reaching sixteen and paying for my own season ticket and going the games home and away on my own, doing a conga round OT in 99 in the most enjoyable night of my life, Being at Uni and sttill having a season ticket, living in America for five years kept my ticket, watched every game at daft o clock and watched every game on the US tour. Coming home and having my own family, my little boy begs can he wear his United top everyday and plays in the garden with his old man.
Yeah i cant do shit about but I support Manchester United not a fucking premier league trophy.
Spot on Wayne, if that is the case, bash them then back them. It sucks for mow Glazzers=MUFC. fuck I wish I had a finance back ground to offer a solution, I do not. Reading most here that do, the Glazzer are not the ruin of MUFC.
@wayne
Oh I see mate. I guess the confusion is whether we are talking about dollars or pounds. If the IPO values United at 3.3 billion dollars, then it’s pretty much the same figure that the Glazers valued it at in the past.
@FITB
Well they have their own agenda and their motivation to buy United was never about helping the club. I just don’t get why they lied about the IPO money going entirely to debt payments in the first place. Were they hoping to pocket some of it without anyone noticing?
Giggs12Gerrrad0
I left a comment for you on the “FA Charge Rio” thread. Please find the time to review it, and tell me what you think. Thanks!
Just cant understand what the glazers are doing here its crazy? If United don’t get both RVP and Moura the fans are gonna hit the roof. As for Fergie backing them cunts. Shame on you…
If the Glazers need to do this so be it. Doesn’t worry me look at the trophies we have won since they took over and look at the sponsor deals they have brought to the club. GGMU
Croweyp
Very constructive, well done!
Costas – it looks like it, since they are so out of touch with reality. Like I have said, it will cost them more money, once fergie leaves the club, because I really cannot see them coughing up the money for a top class manager, when they do not seem to be coughing up the cash for quality players every year, look at how the midfield has been let to rot between 2009 to present, let alone a new manager.
G12 you got me thinking, I will never make my 1st post until I have had my 1st tanker of coffee, I would revise slightly how I constructed my 1st post. Sentiments the same but much less offensive. I still luv U in a non gay way. For I have offended U, that was not my goal.
Waiting for RedMegleeker…
G12 once again I learn on RoM, thanks.
clint iamyourpapii
look i understand ur statement and i wouldnt disagree but ref fergie i dont think he meant that statement as to what some are saying, i think he meant it as concentrate on the team not the finances as the papers seem to be to bothered about that as they no it will sell papers because united fans want to no……im not also saying the glazers are the best owners in the world, far from it infact but united are to big of a football club and if there was no money to b made out of the club then the glazers would be off and sum big arab would come in which i can guarentee would be worse…we would have a new manager every 6 months and would be no better than those cunts across the road who we say is ruinin football…….i think the glazers deserve sum credit and deserve a chance to run the club without sum twat gettin there nose in were it dont belong…like i said on my post, the day they stop investing in the club and taking everything out will be the day they deserve to be criticised….and fergie is on there side because he knows a hell of alot more than me and u and the rest of us fans do about the finances..if he says dont worry then we gota trust him…look how far we have come as a football club under this man and thats because we trusted him…..and like i aid if he turned the glazers would be well and truly fucked
How people can continue to convince themselves that there’s nothing wrong with the Glazers’ stewardship is beyond me. What’s the fucking agenda? Or are you just that much in denial?
@ Clint – Problem is there’s a lot on here who can’t see past their nose when it comes to Manchester United. As long as the trophies come in what happens to the club 5-10 years from now is totally irrelevant to them.
Speak up against them and you’re not behind the club or you’re anti-American. Glazers could be from the North Pole they’re still parasites.
We’ve had 3 managers at this club who have enjoyed great success here; Magnell, Sir Matt and Fergie. When Magnell and Sir Matt stepped down we went into decline and although I don’t think it will be as bad as the previous 2 occasions, it still could happen. Its more competitive than its ever been and I for one don’t buy into the FPP rules. I can’t see PSG breaking even by when those rules are enforced and they’ve only been splashing the cash for 2 windows now.
All this is gloomy because before success was a privilege and now its a necessity, they’ve had to make up the shortfall from last season CL blip. What would happen if we didn’t make the top 4?
Zibbie whatever’s paid down will be better than what it is now and as i mentioned the Glaziers are overvaluing the shares by close to 40% so whoever buys the shares are the mugs.Utd will be in a much stronger position just don’t like being lied to and does make the Glaziers look like slimly cunts
@12:59 I’ve always questioned his support, he’s just a crazy m*r*n that only cares about making senseless jokes, and always off topic.
Yeah I said it
I can’t stand him
I’m fucking hurting due to this glazzernomic debacle and one come up with such comment??
I have always hated the glazers they are a disgrace to our club, twats of the highest order
Wayne thanks man. Got it. The lottery is up to 150 mill, cash option 1/3 of that. When I win I will buy shares and share them with RoM.
I, like many others on here (who refuse to admit it) have very little knowledge of these high end business deals and proposals. Let’s talk about players and formations, and not all pretend to have economics degrees.
Fools (you know who you are)
Ta
Clint-Iamyourpapii says:
“Real fans” don’t care about this according to Ferguson.
Disingenuously, Clint’s papii twists Sir Alex’s words.
Shameful behaviour from a reader who claims to be a United fan.
Sir Alex did NOT say real fans don’t care.
He said the majority of real fans are more realistic than the minority of real fans.
Papii – Spot on. “The big men at the club just see us as idiots that can be hushed with a simple ” as long as we’re winning, all is sunny”. Thing is, it doesn’t take long for that to change. Take Fergie out of the equation, see what happens.
The glazers had fuck all to do with the success since their takeover. The club was coming out of its transition period by the time they took over, so stop crediting them for the success.
Dreadedred
Hi mate, responded to your post on the Rio thread buddy.
The club is being raped. If someone told you this you wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it for yourself. Pillaging fucking bastards. Why don’t they just stamp on the shirt and set it alight while they’re at it? I feel real anger partly from their actions and partly brought about by the impotent feeling of watching the crime and not being able to do anything about it. I’m absolutely disgusted.
NRD – spot on mate.
Success is a bonus, a reward for being a great team. Its not needed every year nor is it the be all and end all of football. The key thing in football is Continued Existence of Competitive Football. People screaming about our success from 2005-12, are truly deluded. Who the Fuck Cares?
I’m talking about the competitiveness from 2018-2050 (as an example).
If United win the CL back to back and go on to win the league 5x times consecutively till 2018, I’ll still have my concern about United…..how does success in any way wash away fears for the future? It doesn’t it just a temporary distraction. Success bring money yes….but as the past 2005-11 suggests….it has done fuck all to reduce the debts as we are still balls deep in it.
My criticism of the Glazers is mainly….ensure the competitive survival of the club then make profits instead of leaching so heavily…FFS the prospect of making a £2bn profit should be enough, but they seem to want to take even more than this.
@Mash
Spot on.
One of the many problem with the Glazers is they know so fucking little about football that they probably don’t appreciate how much our success in their era is IN SPITE of them, not because of them. They haven’t got the first idea how far ahead of every other manager in the league SAF is in terms of his all-round ability as a manager.
They’re businessmen. From their POV, they’re sustaining an acceptable level of success treating the club the way the are. They don’t realise that it’s only the greatest manager in the history of the English game papering over the cracks.
That happens when Fergie leaves? If their attitude to our finances then is anything like it is now … We. Are. Fucked.
Trolls are predictable as clockwork. Stick to one username instead of 3 ffs.
@FITB
Speaking of Fergie’s retirement, one would think that the Glazers would want to settle the debt issue as soon as possible. Because his replacement will find it impossible to be as successful on the pitch under these conditions like he does. And this is another reason why I don’t get this U turn.
This really hurts. Im fine with us not spending stupid money in the transfer market and trying to keep a sensible wage structure and all that. But to have these disgusting vultures siphon money out of a budget that was reserved to pay down a small percentage of THEIR massive debt is a disgrace.
Once the call up his day its when we gonna feel the affect of glazers
IMO just glad the boss manages to keep us on top even though he has limited funds
Goat
That maybe mate, i am born and bred Mancunian and I can only go off my exposure. I was very lokoed after by some amazing families in my time there, i have nothing but good things to say. If i could move out there tomorrow to bring my son up then i would hesitate at all.
Glaziers could’ve shot themsevles in the foot,if there was a guarantee of 100% pay down a lot of Reds might have bought shares not going to happen now to line the Glaziers pockets
People are misdirecting their hate. It should not be aimed at Sir Alex. They are the owners of the club. They have the power to sack a condescending employee. Sir Alex is a smart man. He wants to stay on at the club and leave it when he know the future is set. Why the fuck would he jeopardise that by speaking out against the owners of the whole damn club? Besides he’s the major player behind our huge financial step up in the 90s. It was the culture he engrained into the club that made it thrive so well. Spending decent, reasonable amounts on outside players and taking the time to develop the ones coming through the ranks.
Consider yourself being in a job for 20 plus years. You have put your heart and your soul into it. You have sacrificed family time just for this job. Your owners are serial douchebags and you know that they can sack you in the twikle of an eye if you say shit to them. Would you speak out just to be “romantic”? FUCK NO YOU WOULD NOT.
The real evil people here are the Glazers. They did noth ave the money to buy the club so they went and borrowed money promising to pay it off when they took over.
SIMPLE FINANCIAL RULE I WAS THOUGHT WHEN I WAS 3 YEARS OLD. NEVER BUY SOMETING YOU CANNOT AFFORD. It always never ends well. They promise the fans something and turn their backs and do something else. I personally would not stand for that. If there is ANY way to get rid of these fools I am all for it. Even if it involves forcing them to sell the club. Is there no way they can be sued?
Lovely article in the Telegraph by the head of SquoiaCapital. The Glazers bought the club thru the use of a Leveraged buy out. What this involves is debtors targeting a healthy, growing business ala Manchester United circa 2005, heaping a reasonable amount of debt on them and then paying off that debt and selling it on. HOWEVER, the Glazers have taken this into overdrive. They heaped ALL their debt on us and continue to milk us dry while doing it.
The anger in me this morning when I read that the Glazers are planning to sell carrington and then lease it back to the club, charging crazy management fees, spiking up the season ticket prices, Borrowing money from the club to finance their stupid lifestyles and have not paid most of it back.
Seriously nobody in his right mind would EVER want this for his club. Thank God the brand in question is Manchester United, world famous cash spinning machine that is the dream of any billionaire out there to own. We know that should the Glazers want to sell, there will not be a shortage of buyers AT ALL.
Bloody hell, since when was it all about trophies for United, supporting a club goes much deeper than that and it’s why some of us aren’t persuaded by the argument “look at how much we’ve won since the Glazers……etc..” you might recall we had a modicum of success prior to that and with out carving £500 million out of the club, which is soon to get a whole lot worse, if you can’t see that then carry on calling me a negative bastard, when all I do is post what I believe is the truth, I haven’t finished reading the new IPO prospectus yet but what I have read is to the detriment of the club once again, only this time the manager will be getting a slice, how nice for him.
The Sir Matt Busby Stand.
Even if the Glazers do take half which is still a big if (Will explain why later) how exactly is this bad for the club. It pays down the bond debt by a chunk and changes the Interets rate on this chunk from 8.5% to 0%. That puts the club in a better position than it was and there are still plenty of shares that can be offered by the Glazers at a later date to pay off further.
Now I say IF because Andy Green and MUST have made the mistake of jumping on the text in financial documents before only to be left red faced. If you want leeway to make decisions later you have to go worst case and we have seen that in the original takeover documents, the refinancing documents and the bond documents. So far despite us being told by certain parties it would happen it never has so It doesn’t to me seem as clear cut as some are making out. The prospectus is still only a draft as well so perhaps they are also still testing the waters to see what will allow the best deal for both sides to be achieved
And even if they do take it all at the end of the day they are entitled to it. Despite what certain parties want us to believe if you go back and read everything about the Glazer takeover the Glazers did invest ‘their own’ money even if some of that was via the personal loans
The loans against the club were only £510mill but the cost of buying the club was £790mill so that’s around £280mill from the Glazers (£150mill was said to be from a PIK) This is only the TAKEOVER cost not the cost to buy the 30% to trigger the takeover.
So while like everyone else I would have prefer it all to go to Club it’s a little unreasonable to begrudge them a chance to lower both sides of debt using shares THEY own. They didn’t even have to give the club half the shares to sell.
What it actually tells me is that the Glazers are settling in for the long run. If they were going to exit in 2017 I suspect they would have waited for their cut until then, this seems like perhaps they are planning to not sell any time soon and are getting their debts relating to the takeover lowered as they aren’t expecting a windfall from selling anytime soon.
I’d like to thank the Glazers as they’ve managed to stop people talking bollocks about signing RvP and Moura…. Cheers Malcolm and your fuck bag family.
No fucking way the Glaziers could fire Sir Alex,all Sir Alex has to do is come out and say the Glaziers are shit owners and the club needs to get rid,OT would be empty and shirt sales would be non existent.Sir Alex is much more powerful than the Glaziers
@wayne
You don’t seriously believe that do you?
@Wayne: and the first player to leave would be your namesake…
…which, come to think of it, may not be an entirely bad thing in the looong run
With new TV package being just the start of a Global explosion $$$$, again, 100,000,000 new middle class consumers in Asia, thus Chevy sponsorship breaking records. Narrow minded views stuck in the 60′s so hard to see the facts in their face. MUFC big entertainment business, no longer a local sporting club. Soon to be changed to be called an Entertainment company. The projections for the future growth is staggering. MUFC in 20 years time to be worth 10 billion and so on and so on…………
I agree with wayne, i believe even after sir alex retires, the man can speak out against the glazers and the stadium will empty.
kanchelskis yes mate there’s plenty of fans like me who trust Sir Alex and while he backs the Glaziers accepts them,they’d be a all out muntiny if the Glaziers fired him,he’s much bigger than the Glaziers imo
The stadium wont empty SAF is with the Glzers he wont go against them that boat has sailed!
@ wakey, thanks I eat up your knowledge.
Most here do not care about the facts, just want to rant at the Americans. simple as.
Any chance her on RoM they get, Glazzers suck, MUFC is doomed, Berba is God and Rooney sucks. The 3 favorite themes for some 20% of people who show here. What blows me away, some of this 20% are smart, educated people???? They just refuse to look at all the facts and the determine what they say. Like so many in this world, not listening, just waiting for there turn to talk.
Costas
All out of the woodwork mate….can see why King Eric is off the blog…he’d be having a field day today
But he’d rather be having fun with his newborn than dealing with thick cunts on here
Some of the posts are just incredible…
Croweyp
No shit sherlock..what a brilliant suggestion…your parents must be proud of your attitude
Mikekelly
Some belting posts pal…
I Think Scott put it brilliantly the other day — A lot of the people’s views are being ridiculously clouded by the success we have enjoyed in the last 5 years. If we had ended up in mid table like Liverpool have for a few years on the trot, views would have been a lot different. Just because we’re winning doesn’t mean everything is ok.
Similarly posts like “you cant do anything about it so shut up” are seriously unreal. That being said, I will hope to hell that the Glazer IPO is oversubscribed and the debt is repaid in full soon enough for the sake of our great club.
As I put on the previous thread, we’ll never really know what caused the U-turn from David Gill’s “debt is the road to ruin” statement and similarly never will we know about this U-turn’s reasons. I can only guess its the PIK’s – but the fact that its been shared between the people, makes that unlikely..
I think this is just an initial share sale to gauge the mood and demand…there’s going to be more in the future I presume…
When training at the Qatari’s state of the art facility a while back, the Boss stressed his point about the importance of the managerial role. Can’t remember the words exactly but he talked about power and how it shouldn’t be with the players or owners…because at United the Manager has the power and control of all football matters. He said this during a time when there was speculation about Qataris buying in, as if to warn them that if their interest was real and they believed in him, they should realise that the football set up shouldn’t change. His quotes about the Glazers leaving him to do his thing and quotes about there always being fans who want to run the Club are consistent with this.
If there’s ever a realistic chance for fans to buy in, in my opinion any fans’ group should assure the Club that the new (fan) owners will not interfere. Imagine the horror of the collective sugar-daddy, hoards banging on the doors demanding to be heard after a home defeat. This is perhaps the way Sir Alex sees fan ownership? Thinking forward and trying to be positive, I think significant fan ownership could work but reassurances need to be made that those running the club would/could continue to do so.
It’s hard, if not impossible to find an Abramovich that wouldn’t interfere but maybe it’s possible. I wonder if the Boss’ words put the Qataris off?
@Zibbie: There’s a very real chance of all of that going to shit. The real base of commercial value is not the demographics, and sadly, neither the history, but the on-field success. If the debt continues to hamper United’s spending power, beyond Fergie’s reign. there are some very real concerns that are gonna come up, trust me on that.
Does SAF have that sort of power?
No….The daytrippers will not miss out on a chance to take photos and sit quietly with the family in their seats.
But if SAF said something after he retires similar to that of Rafa-Liverpool-Hicks+Gillet….the stadium would hold 55,000-60,000 at the minimum and thats hardly low is it !
How the fuck can people still go on websites and defend the Glazers like their lives depended on it?
At best the club is being run sub-optimally by these parasites because so much money is going towards their debt. Money that could be used for player acquisitions.
Wakey, the terms of the bond mean it cant be repaid until 2017, well it can if you still pay all the interest.
I’ll put it this way, Im a bank, you want to borrow money, say 10k off me for 5 years, I want £12k back in total (which is cheap by the way) so your monthly payments would roughly be £200 per month (capital plus interest) if you come to me and say I can pay it off with 2.5 years to go, what am I supposed to do, let you off the rest of the interest, like fuck, I lent you the money for a specific return and I want it, that’s what you have with the bond, so it’s £40 mill in interest until 2017 when the whole amount will be due.
As I have typically defended the Glazers, I must admit my disappointment in this revised offering. Still think we’re in good hands, even if I don’t like the mug they’re attached to…
@wayne
And there’s plenty of fans who don’t show such loyalty and who would comfortably fill OT in a post-Ferguson era.
Interpretation of SAF’s stance is polarised between accusations of skullduggery (he’s ‘in on it’, lying, insulting our intelligence, possibly benefiting from it financially etc) and sheer naivety (the way SAF spins it must be true ergo Glazers regime is not problematic.
People are missing the fairly obvious middle ground that Fergie wants what is best for the club and is acting accordingly. Even if he’s quite aware of the financial restrictions, how does it benefit the club for him to come out and say so? What happens then? He possibly gets fired. Even if he doesn’t, players are no longer attracted or retained due to concerns over long-term ambition and wages – then quality of squad declines. Media whip up a shitstorm and finally have tangible backing for their ‘club in crisis’ narrative. Starts an open war between fans and owners: fans boycott etc and owners probably become even more financially abusive in their approach to the club.
Fergie is not stupid. For all the reasons above, he has to play it like everything is OK. But for anyone to accept his propaganda as genuine comfort that the Glazer regime is harmless is embarrassing naivety.
xol – Interesting perspective.
.
Zibbie, don’t see how you can support Roloney and the Glazers all in one breath….
Rooney questioned the club’s ambition and generally acted like the high priced whore he was shagging, dragging the club’s name through the mud in the process.
So either he was right, which points towards Glazer’s culpability, or he was being a right prick, using the media and blackmailing tactics to negotiate, nay extort, a larger salary
You can’t have it both ways, mate – make up your mind!
Giggs12Gerrrad0
Me too mate, mancs salt of the earth.
It’s all Berba’s fault.
@Red Devil
Yeah, where the hell is he? I haven’t seen him in ages. Come back KE!
G12. You have drunk the media Kool Aid. the whole point Fergie was trying to point out that day was that we should concentrate on the football while the finances get sorted out. Fergie does not want the club to get milked or go under. It would be daft to think that way. He genuinely loves this club and wants the best for it which is why he even gave a fuck about trying to change the culture at the club and decided to build it up his way. He could have left in 2002 and United could have gone into a sharp downward spiral on and off the field but he stayed and put EVERYTHING he had into the club up till now.
Lol and for those naive people who think Glazers can’t sack Fergie. These are Americans who don’t know SHIT about football and probabl don’t care who the hell he is. Just like Roman did to Jose Malcolm can do the same to Fergie. It would be detrimental but shit it can be done.
Zibbie
Most here do not care about the facts, just want to rant at the Americans. simple as.
Any chance her on RoM they get, Glazzers suck, MUFC is doomed, Berba is God and Rooney sucks.
Can you show me any evdience of this? I think you are becoming confused and almost as Wakey says MUST feeds us fans ill truth, you are doing the same with Wakeys take on it.
Wakey – Your whole notion of taking money out, settling down and paying off some debt which will be better than before! This is fundamentally our issue, they shouldnt need to pay off thier debt with our money. We shouldnt be in debt at all, why cant that simple fact be put into perspective.
Wakey answe me this, do you think the Glazers have a good model and a healthy ownership of our club? And secondly do you agree with all the money taken away from the football club directly into the Glazers pockets?
Well said Duncan Drasdo, and Bobby Charlton’s Combover at 13:57.
@kanchelskis: “And there’s plenty of fans who don’t show such loyalty and who would comfortably fill OT in a post-Ferguson era.”
I’ll go with that scenario, rather than Wayne’s.
I have tired of saying exactly what you said about Fergie’s role in the whole scheme of things…he knows exactly what he is doing, though he seems to verdo it at times with his comments about “real fans”
I only know one thing that is something is better than nothing. I would be happy if more than 100 million pound is used to wipe the debt out but if thats not the case then any money will do. We need to eliminate the debt. I hope by the time fergie retires our debt is wiped of or only small portion is remaining ( By that I mean something less than 100 million pounds). But not happy the way glazer are pocketing the money. But I will not come to any conclusion untill We know the real figures.
@jeet
Agree. As I said, there’s a school of thought that is fiercely critical of Fergie (especially in light of his role in the selling of the club), to which I do not subscribe, but which seems like a polemic necessity with the likes of Zibbie and wayne around. Like you say, he does himself no favours when he oversteps the mark (eg ‘real fans’), but he’s essentially engaged in a delicate process of trying to steady a huge, volatile ship, which he will have to do until either he or the Glazers leave.
Even the symbol is offensive!
“The Class A Ordinary Shares will be listed on the New York Stock Exchange and will trade under the symbol “MANU”.”
Ahh, that word “polemic” again…where’s MG when you need him?
@Ash: That’s a very pragmatic view, and one that I agree with. I would urge all who can, to make the IPO a huge success, while loathing the fact that it significantly lines the Glazers pockets. It’s in the best interests of Manchester United, OUR club.
@jeet/ash
I’m a complete financial rooky. Do you know of any way I could go about getting my grubby mitts on some shares? Is through a paid broker the only avilable option?
It should be NO surprise to see the glazers milking the club yet again with a revised listing, surely saf will be regretting the fact that he was heaping praise on these abhorrent owners less than 2 weeks ago,
its clear the fans are alone in condemning them, and its up to all of us to hit them were they will feel it most, as money is the only language they understand, i for one have long stopped paying for overpriced merchandise for me and my kids, and have not been to a home game for several seasons, as much as this is painful, we all need to take a stand.
The most hard done by in the whole IPO scheme of things is our very own Chicharito…Fergie praised him on his fantastic personality, but no one on roM seems to give a flying fuck
@kanchelskis: Its probably a bit more difficult since its being listed in the NYSE…you’d have to ask your mates in UK, though my guess is there would be online trading portals where you could pay a small fee, register and apply.
Wakey – any tips?
ed
Thats business pal. Those with a brain are all aware that if you want to grow you have to attract investers. If you want to compete with the very biggest then you have to be big time. Then by getting investors you become a limited company and thenyou run the risk of being bought out. Thats what happened. we are still contending on the pitch whats the problem. Do you honestly think the Glazers put in hundreds of millions of their own money not knowing what they are doing. You really reckon that hundreds of millions just fall into the laps of people. They are self made. As a family they did it alone, they know what they are doing. Theyve done it a 100 times before. Why should these gentlemen have to explain themselves to people who wouldnt understand the terminology if they were told the ins and outs of the business. What benefit is it for them to disclose information when anti glazerites twist the information they get to fuel their bigotted beliefs to the masses who are more than likely thicker than yorkshire pig shite. (The case as is now – telling people that you are in a possition of authority on the matter when realistically you know sod all, admitted yourselves that they never disclose, then claim to be all knowing).
Yes the money could be going on players instead of interest rates, Im fully aware of that but was it better when we were a plc. Did we get what we wanted then. I dont remember Ronaldhino or Batistuta here, nor Ronaldo the Brazilian nor Romario, Stojkov etc etc etc. What is clear though that as soon as we have paid off the debts then we will have owners and a club with the deepest pockets in all sports. Why get shirty about a problem that is a short term issue when the future due to the Glazer buy up will be the greatest possible result for Manchester United. All of this whilst contending. United havent become an Arsenal. We havent decided on a money costing project (stadium in comparison to our debt repayments) that will effect the performance of the team. Congrats Glazers for that. There was no one else prepared to take on United because no one out there knows of a person with 3 billion of spare cash in the bank. Everyone seems to think some oil shaik could buy United. No none of them are rich enough. The clubs they have bought are those that are peanuts to buy and then they quickly invest in ready made players. Thats not United. United costs billions.
I dont understand the attack on the Glazers. what have they done wrong? What we should do is support them, embrace them and buy as much from them as possible because once that debt is paid we are the power of Barcelona, Real Madrid and AC Milan combined. And all that in sunny Manchester. Magic
kanchelskis i was responding to dannysoya saying Sir Alex is backing the Glaziers to save his job which i think is bollocks,notthing to do with what you ended up going on about
@wayne
You said there’d be all-out mutiny if the Glazers fired him, which presumably correlates with a belief that Fergie could speak out if he wanted to. My point he doesn’t, not because he’d fear being fired, but because of an overall view of what is best for the club in the current situation.
P.S
The Glazers never said that ALL of the money on the flotation of these stocks would go towards paying the debt. They said the flotation of these stocks will go towards the paying off the debt. 2 completely different statements and the whole article and MUST rhetoric is yet again aimed to the thick to follow like sheep.
There has been no IPO u-turn.
Just a thought here….if the premier league has measures in place for unsuitable owners, then why cant they tell the Glazers that if they dont get the debt cleared by a set deadline they will then come under the guise of unsuitable owners and be forced to sell the club. Now I know this as such would be difficult but if they were to threaten Utd with expulsion if they didnt meet the leagues demands then the Glazers would be put in a positon where they clear the debt or sell. Now I’m pretty sure that if they said we will take Utd out of the league then that the Goverment would step in because it would not want to lose the money Utd generate in tax and so on and with it being the top club in the country I’m pretty sure the FA and Premier league would stand together. I know people will think its out there as an Idea but I truly believe it is going to take more to get these germs out of the club than a fan protest, we need the support of the governing bodies. The one thing about Roman and the sheikh is they put money into their club, obviously they dont make any money, but the Glazers take it out!! I wouldn’t mind them taking money out, after all its a business, IF the club didnt have the debt in the first place.
Goat
As responsible owners who bear in mind have never paid a penny of their own cash recieve 25 million dollars with debt levels the way they are?
Dont be so niaive and thick yourself to suggest anyone who disagrees with you is a MUST sheep. That is just dillusions of gradeur on your part mate thinking you know best above all. I take huge exception to suggest I cant think for myself.
Gee
Maybe Portsmouth should be asking that question as well mate, the answer looks pretty obvious to me in that no real due dilligence is done. There should also be a rule of how much leverage of debt is applied to a club should they be bought.
@goat
“Previously, the Glazer family had indicated they would use all the money to reduce United’s borrowings, which presently stand at £437million.”
I guess you’re on the phone to the Telegraph as they speak to ask them to correct their ‘error’?
kanchelskis yes i have no doubt he could speak out and the last thing he’s worried about is getting fired imo,i disagree with the still get 50,000 a game theory if he was fired but that’s just conjecture anyway
My point is if Sir Alex really thought the Glaziers are raping the club dry he’d be better coming out and being truthful for short term turmoil and get rid of the cancer and he would have the backing of most Utd fans
So it boils down to one of two things he’s in the Glaziers back pocket and is doing this for financial gain which i find hard to believe or he believes the Glazier business model is not effecting his ability to run the club but the last thing i think he’s doing it for is to save his job.
kanchelskis, Exactly! Some of the anti-Sir Alex posts here are absolute drivel.
What do these people expect Sir Alex to say, that the Glazer regime sucks and that he should be given more money. What good would that do to the morale of the players, the fans, or the general infrastructure of the club itself? Even if he feels that way, which I am sure he doesn’t, he wouldn’t do anything that harms United and more importantly puts a dent on our will to win more silverware.
Most importantly, he knows that United would practically be fucked in the current economic situation without him. I think he realizes that at this point of time the club needs his management expertise more than anything else to get us through the current situation.
Those are the reasons he is doing what he is doing. Not out of someone reason to suck it up to the Glazers which he doesn’t need to anyway. Not because he needs to pocket some cash, what good would that do him. A 70 year old man who is already pretty rich pocketing more cash out of some IPO. Not because of any other stupid reason these fucks can think of.
It is plain and simple that Sir Alex believes that what he is doing is for the absolute best for the running of Manchester United.
Belajii
“What do these people expect Sir Alex to say,
We dont expect him to say anythnig on the matter espciailly accuse fans of not being real ones, we have the right to question our owners.
People can talk about business all day long, this is not apple it is a football club and a different beast by nature.
We will be the only ones left when The Glazers, Fergie, players leave, it is our club and we should be treated with the respect as such.
Too many fans who are “Jonny come Latelys” for me, they think its ok to have a model that is purely business and the owners shouldnt have to care about the team other than to drive revenue.
Quite frankly it makes me ill, Goat got his comment spot on United fans not fit for purpose just in his case he falls into that catogary.
wayne says:
My point is if Sir Alex really thought the Glaziers are raping the club dry he’d be better coming out and being truthful for short term turmoil and get rid of the cancer and he would have the backing of most Utd fans
________________________________________________________________________
And that’s where the theory falls down. If Fergie speaks out against them, they don’t just pack their bags and leave do they? What are the failsafe mechanisms that lead directly from SAF speaking out to the Glazers selling up? There aren’t any.
Like I said, the more likely scenario is that SAF speaks out, the Glazers don’t leave and all shades of shit hit the fan, as I outlined earlier.
Sad as it may be, for now, keeping shtum is what’s best for MUFC.
Actually, for Sir Alex, the Glazers probably are very good owners. He hated the PLC. He hated the AGMs – he hated having to answer questions from lowly fans/shareholders about tactics, performances and transfers. If the only downside is that he has to operate on a tighter budget, he might well deem it a worthy trade-off.
It is clear that even after their attempts to stop the Glazer takeover, all was instantly forgiven once the club was purchased (with its own money and at a time when risky lending was rife – it would not happen now) and Gill and Fergie were left with increased power within a less transparent United.
goatinaunitedshirt :
You made some good, thoughtful points and I was going to reply in more detail but when you said we should “love” and “embrace” the Glazers and “buy everything” they offer*, I decided not to go overboard.
* I assume you include the over priced, revised shares in this. Also, be clear on the difference between actually paying off the debt and simply servicing the debt. The interest repayments are pretty much all we are actually dealing with in the majority of cases. The principal will not be paid off until we have jettisoned the parasites you wish to embrace. So abandon your dreams of being debt free under the Glazer regime.
Also, it is not ‘just business’. That kind of risky lending would not be something that would happen post the global financial crisis. In fact, it was the kind of lending that caused all the problems in the first place.
Just seen this article, http://thefaithfulmufc.com/2012/07/31/will-sir-alex-stab-every-united-fan-in-the-heart-an-overview/?
The draft prospectus published on 3rd July said ALL IPO proceeds would pay down debt. I assumed that bit was very clear and is one of the reasons people are upset.
kanchelskis,if the mutiny was big enough Glaziers would have to sell but i think we both agree whatever the reason for Sir Alex backing them its not because he’s worried about being fired
@sebaveron, you did? Hmm and I just seen this article:
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/don-t-let-the-internet-warriors-force-sir-alex-ferguson-out-of-ol
Giggs12Gerrrad0
Im sorry my friend but a dumb ass comment. The shares which the Glazers had in the first place ammounted to some 200 million pounds worth. Its with these shares that the Glazers had a footing in which to make take over plans. They do have their own money tied up and alot more besides the initial 200 million plus all debts are secured on all their other investments and that has to be taken into account.
@wayne
Yes, agreed on that. Though I don’t trust them one bit, they’re surely surrounded by enough advisers with half a brain between them to know that sacking SAF would be a very bad move.
But I don’t think SAF just coming out and criticising them would lead to a big enough ‘mutiny’. It would cause more harm than good.
I’m not sure people want Fergie to speak out at the glazers and if they do the time was 2005 not now.
mig78, Mindblowing. Amazing article by Annie Eaves that cuts to the heart of the Sir Alex issue, though it easily subverts the issue of the IPO which I am sure she didn’t want to address. Absolutely brilliant and a must-read for most.
kanchelskis
Kanchelskis that is a news paper story or article. Only the parts within a news paper under “…..” can be counted as words ACTUALLY spoken (quoting a person) or text taken from the source of the story.
Like you used them to quote from the news paper itself.
Can you show me the story in the said news paper where it is written in the degree that “The Glazers will be using ALL of the money made by selling shares to service the debt”.
If you cant then you have zero argument.
The success achieved since the Glazers took over United is a red herring of the main problem, which is the debt of the club.
IPO itself is also a red herring to our debt problem. The money is too fresh and too temptous to the eyes of the greedy glazers… This thread is the prove.
Lucas Moura, RVP and more to come “targeted-star players” are red herrings to the debt. Believe me: more names to popped, but nothing will really come. The way these issues came out from Fergie is already wrong, really, really wrong! Fergie never did these kind of bullshits before. He never reveals the players he target ffs! These were done near to IPO to make United seemed to be competitive enough. The fact? None of them are coming means this is bullshit!
Redefined ‘True fans’ by Fergie is the other red herring. This one made my eyes sore when I read it. Too blatant! Did Fergie thought his words cab turn all the fans to back up the glazers and forget about the debt?
Very sad to read this news. Like one of the poster said, United is all about football not debt, not IPO, not about freakin greedy Glazers fuck!
Bring back the football! Love United Fuck Glazers!
Just out of curiosity, where does it say that half of the money raised from the IPO will go into Glazer’s pocket? Why it won’t be used to strengthen the squad?
sorry for my ignorance… still trying to find that silver lining…
goat
It was stated quite clearly in the initial prospectus.
@goat
I refer you to mikekelly12 at 15:32
Seriously, catch them, throw them in a cage and demand 5 £ per punch…. and all the debt is gone.
Lets buy them with their own money!
Not criticizing the Glazers publicly for the sake of the club is one thing, but some of the praise SAF has poured on them is nauseating.
ed
The issue is no one had the money to buy United outright. NO ONE. These shaiks have money in the billions but NO ONE especially a money thieving shaik (sheik) is going to use their entire fortune on a football club whose rules and regulations of business are ultimately dictated to by outside forces (the FA, UEFA and FIFA) who answer to nobody and whos rule changes cannot always be challenged in a court of law as being unconstitutional as Sport is not covered by that. What the Glazers have done is nothing short of fucking gutsey.
When the returns on such large ammounts of money can be made easier than buying a sports club you have to ask a question why are they in it. The reason is they are actually sports interested.
I find it remarkable that the people of Manchester who so ordinarily are the salt of the earth can be so bloody unwelcoming to a guest.
Im all to aware that the deals initially in place were astronomically expensive and the interest rates were that comparable to buying a club on a credit card but it wasnt the Glazers who set the interest rates. They like many others found it unbelievably difficult to loan money to get a club like United because of the reasons I showed above. You dont invest money in sports clubs for the soul interest in making money. They have bought a business. Manchester United is a business. Its not a football club, its a (for lack of a decent word) franchise. Its a business almost as rich as some small nations.
@World Class
The thing is, Fergie will inevitably be asked about the situation in press conferences. So saying nothing is not always a possibility. Silence or refusal to comment will lead to even more suspicion and distrust, which is why he normally settles for lukewarm praise. As I said earlier, he sometimes overcompensates, especially when wound up by a journo, hence his recent regrettable outburst.
Annie Eaves is FANTASTIC. that article is BANG ON THE MONEY. please read it for all those trying to smoehow point accusing fingers at Sir Alex. It is almost a shocker that people are somehow directing abuse at Sir Alex in all this without stopping for a moment to think why and how he would have come out and said the things he said. I have said this a million times and I wil lsay it again. Sir Alex loves this club too much to let it go down the drain. He knows fully well that he is the key to united’s continued resurgence, if he leaves, we are fucked. Big players will leave as Sir Alex’s promises brouht them here in the first place, we lose the incentive of playing under the greatest of all time, the Glazers wil lreamin the owners of United and there would little to FUCK ALL we could do about it. Just imagine that scenario. If you think this is an ightmare, that is infinitely worse.
I don’t know about you but I’d love for Sir Alex to finish his project before leaving rather than have some mugs force him out.
Goat
No offence take btw
No you are right in the fact they had an early outlay and footing and that should be taken into account. I was more concentrating no the take over element. Money laid down against borrowed money, yes it is against their own assets but it is Manchester United keeping their offer assets above water.
What do they call us again ” The jewel in thier crown”
kanchelskis and mikekelly12
Is there an online copy? otherwise I cant stop my argument and nor should it be used in an argument to twist the truth or make up lies to convince the ignorant otherwise.
goatinaunitedshirt says:
Its not a football club
_____________________________________________________________________________
Sorry mate, you’ve lost me there. Do explain…
Everyone needs to take a step back inhale deeply and repeat this mantra
“Glazers are good because we are winning things”
Just keep repeating till you believe it seems to have worked on quite a few here.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912007537/a2210287zf-1a.htm
Here is the amended prospectus.
Goat @ 14:54: “I dont understand the attack on the Glazers. what have they done wrong?”
What they “did wrong” was investing only 275,000,000 quid from their own funds while paying off the CoolmoreMafia and the other shareholders with borrowed money rather than having deeeeeeeeeeeep pockets and paying the whole whack with spare change.
It’s pretty apparent to me that fans with “a deluded sense of entitlement” want a sugar daddy while berating TheSheikh and RomanA for buying-titles.
From my perspective, the Glazers have done a wonderful job of running the business of MUFC – its value has more than doubled and the commercial revenues have skyrocketed.
On the field-of-play, TheLads have won four of the last six EPL titles while losing one on goal difference (forgetting the five points “deducted” for shitty refereeing) and another by one point after a MartinAtkinsonMoment. It’s not unrealistic to suggest that with more consistent refereeing, TheLads could be on a six-peat and going into this season looking for a seventh successive EPL title. PLUS, TheLads’s accomplishments in the CL haven’t been too shabby.
The “value in the market” signings – AV7, CaptainVidic, NinjaEvra, Chicharito, and BigManSmalling – have all been excellent additions KagawaBunga looks like the real deal, too) and most of the “investment-in-youth” signings – Chicharito, Nani, Rafael/Fabio, MrJones, DDG, and maybe even Anderson (yep, I’m a glass half-full guy) are the core of SAF next great team. Oddly, the only really-big-money signing in the past seven years – Dimmy – has been a square-peg-in-a-round-hole and something of a disappointment (albeit the leading-scorer-from-open-play in the EPL in 2010-2011).
While it’s no doubt true that SAF has not splashed-the-cash like a drunken sailor, it’s hard to argue that he’s been particularly limited in his expenditures. AND let’s not forget that a key component in his team-building – Owen Hargreaves and DarrenFletcherinho – were lost due to unforeseen (and very unlucky) circumstances.
Finally, let’s have a little conjecture and look at a alternative scenario: the Glazers buy MUFC with their own money, raise commercial revenues, TheLads enjoy the same level of on-field success, while MUFC maintains the same relationship between revenue and players’ wages. The key difference would be that the Glazers would pocket the massive increase in profits rather than paying off borrowing charges. What would be the outcome of that ? I reckon that there’d be a simliar sense of grievance, outrage, and complaint from “fans” whose deluded sense of entitlement seems to expect the owners to be involved in entertainment philanthropy.
BUT, let’s get real, the Glazers are capitalists who bought MUFC with borrowed money because they thought that they could make money from their investment in the medium- and long-term. For them, the fans are “customers” and MUFC is a cash-cow. Really, it’s kinda simple, eh ?
red_bicycle:
Third para spot on. Most football fans are naive at the heart and will believe that we really are after these big signings. Whether we really are after these players are questionable, but it really shouldn’t bluff the people we are targeting for the IPO. Rumors and conjecture is all well and good in the papers and on blogs such as this, but the fact that United are or are not after some highly rated youngsters should not add anything to the value of the club.
Kanchelskis
Thats the problem in itself mate, i referenced above saying owners have a duty to treat us with the respect. We are first and formost a football club.
Some fans think the Glazer model is ok as believe we are a business…….the word franchise was used???? Give me strength.
Too many fans supoprt us due to our success and global appeal, not enough care about its traditions and purity.
You should have boycotted the club in 2005 this was always going to happen. Fc united are the future LUHG
Chevrolet shirt sponsor deal info, rumored to be around $600 million. It should pay twice as much per year than the current Aon deal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/us-gm-manu-idUSBRE86T1HE20120731
Giggs12Gerrrad0
Good not trying to cause offence, glad your thicker skinned than some on here.
Wasnt India the jewel in the crown, independance didnt sink the motherland as the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Their other assets are bouncing back, they have been affected quite substantially with the recession but what we should be thankful of is their other assets are in the country that will lead us out of the recession along with countries like China India and Brazil. Unlike Europe where manufacture and small business is thrown out for “higher though of” employment due to higher wages, other trade union interferance and high tax rates the US will bounce back. Not surprisingly good businessmen like the Glazers have their noses in that trough and will be reaping the benefits whilst the economy bounces back. All to our delight. Too many people here are short sighted, expecting dominant football teams be built and it take only 1 year or be seemless. To many believe that a player should be the finnished article after 1 season. Too many believe a 500million mortgage should be paid back in 5 years.
In the long term United will be far better off from the sacrifices we make now. What should be looked at and celebrated is we are a business and we are thriving during a recession. Intake is up even during a recession. The added intake more than makes up for interest payments and we have free cash in the bank for football transfers of the order 80 million pounds (not the Ronaldo money). All this and we are still contenders on every footballing stage.
Someone please tell me whats broken other than your hearts because the club isnt owned by the people. With the knowledge they have of financial matters thank fucking christ for that.
goat
didn’t realise it was an argument. It’s quite clearly stated in the initial prospectus. Yes there is an online copy, go and have a read. I have read it and am aware of the truth. Couldn’t give two shits what anyone else chooses to believe.
Jeez, this pro-Glazer drivel is astounding.
“It is plain and simple that Sir Alex believes that what he is doing is for the absolute best for the running of Manchester United.”
First of all, how do you know what he BELIEVES? Second, and not less important, why is it even important what he believes? If I SAY I believe that killing people is wrong, but still do it, is it more important what I SAY I believe or what I do?
“Most importantly, he knows that United would practically be fucked in the current economic situation without him. I think he realizes that at this point of time the club needs his management expertise more than anything else to get us through the current situation.”
I read nonsense here every day, but this is beyond nonsense. The man was/is a great manager, but to proselytize any individual in this way is stupid and potentially harmful. Elevating him to some god-like genious heights is only good for covering up his mistakes which he’s not immune from making.
His expertise is supposed to guide us through the current situation? What if it doesn’t? What if he retires in two years and nothing changes still? What then? But the main point would be, he’s NOT doing anything to change the current situation and if the situation gets worse, he won’t be able to do anything but retire and preserve his messianic image.
Love or loathe them the Glazer family are here to stay . All i can add is they are business men .The mighty dollar is the goal .To achieve this they need the product , Manchester United . I cant see them deliberatley trying to spoil the pie .They know success on the pitch is key . They sat through our defeat at the hands of cash and carry citeh .There could not of been a better demonstration of how fickle the world of football can be .They need SAF ,The Players and us the fans /supporters onside .Personally if we never won another title id still be a United supporter . But the world wide commercial operation relies on those buying into the ethos of our club ! The Glazers need to win as much in business as we do on the pitch . For better or worse its all linked .
I respect everyones opinion but ABUs reading this thread will be fired with a belief we are in self destruct mode ?
Why have so many people on here forgotten that we were a debt free football club that already had excellent marketing, making huge profits and there was success on the pitch. Exact same success as we’re having now with a smaller stadium, cheaper tickets and the greatest manager ever in his early 60s.
Now we’re football club with excellent marketing, making profits, success on the pitch except with £432 million worth of debt with a slightly bigger stadium, dearer tickets and the greatest manager in his 70s.
Remind me the Treble was pre-glazer?
The way some of these miscreants are chatting you would think there was no Manchester United before 2005 and if there was they didn’t achieve anything!
How have they been beneficial to the club? They have been beneficial to nobody but themselves.
Solution? Back to the way it was – weren’t doing too bad then were we?
Costas – exactly, that is what I do not get. It is one thing being cheap with players in certain positions. but I can see this lot being cheap when it comes to finding a new manager, take for example, say the club wanted to sign a mourinho, could you see the glazers going the extra mile and giving jose the wages he would demand? I could not. and lets look at worse case scenario, and if they go down the cheap road, bring in the wrong manager, he fucks up united’s season, and we finish 7th or 8th, because the glazers would not go the extra mile and sign a top class manager. That would mean, money wasted firing the manager, and finding a new one, not clearing the debts enough, need to rebuild the squad, and in the need to find a new manager, and the loss of CL revenue. We add all that up, it could cost the glazers their resale value of the club because they are cheap, because of the poor performances of the club on the pitch. They do not seem to look at the long term problems united could have, if they do not clear the debts, with Ferguson retired, I am worried they will not bring in the right manager, because of the finances and debts the glazers have hit united with
@World Class.
Concerning United being in the runnin for RVP and Lucas and it all being rumours let me ask you some questions.
Why would Sao Paulo ( spelling?) come out ON THEIR OWN and claim that we have put in a bid for their best player just to give us a helping hand in dealing with our fans? would that make sense? no it would not.
Why would Arsenal come out and claim that we put in a bid for Robin van Persie, their best player just to help us out in dealing with some furious fans.
Why is it so hard to believe that United can actually stil pursue big signings. Truth be told until this morning ( when I read about the Glazer u-turn on the IPO and was livid), I
@Giggs12Gerrrad0
There are plenty of PL owners who obviously run their club like a business, but – even when making unpopular decisions – have some regard for the feelings of the fans. Lerner, Levy, Whelan, even Kenwright. The Glazers are utterly shameless about their lack of regard for the fans, as demonstrated by their non-existent public profile in the UK.
This is another thing that astounds me … If all is OK, as some seem to believe, when why aren’t the Glazers THEMSELVES telling as as much? Because the lies would be so fucking blatant that not even they can bring themselves to tell them. They are using the club as a financial vessel. Nothing more, nothing less.
kanchelskis
Its not a football club explanation
Manchester United is a business. In order for the football team to survive at the highest level it needs to generate income far above and beyond the money brought in by shirt sales and ticket sales. Infact it can be argued that the shirt sales are dependent on sponsorship on them so they shouldnt be counted in the argument as revenue (or not in its entirety) based solely on the attraction of the football team. Same goes for TV rights where advert placement on pitch side boards and adverts during comercial breaks also depend on revenue brough in by sponsors.
Manchester United is 1. The team 2. The auxilary staff 3 Marketing and sponsorship etc etc
A football club is the team, the players bar, local donations and entrance fee.
The business is what I stated above.
Manchester United is known as Manchester United Football Club but thats more a convenient historical name.
I hope you get my drift.
Duncan Drasdo
Just when I thought I would never have to hear from that idiotic cunt again
wiuru – yes, but businessmen can still fuck up a business by not clearing their debts quick enough, because they want to keep an extra few bucks to themselves, when in fact its costing them more. And I stand by my point, if Ferguson retires in the next 5 years, I do not see united has a job many managers would want to take, under these financial times. Is managing a football club under these owners. with just over 400 million? a job worth taking? I do not think it is. It is the other extreme of the Spanish duo
NotoriousRedDevil
I would like to remind you that pre 2005 Manchester United was a healthy business as you state but we were not comparable to the draw of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Barcelona and Real Madrid have been able to pick up all up and coming latin American stars uncontested, this is changing. You may think this is down solely to scouting networks but its also down to extensive marketing in these regions an area the Glazers and their team are experts in. You say we had excellent marketing before 2005 and then said it was excellent afterwards. True but its twice as excellent now, we need another word.
Its all a process fellah, life moves on and all that. There is no gain protesting about change its going to happen one way or other with or without you. United pre Glazers was fantastic, United with the Glazers is fantastic, United post Glazers will also be fantastic. Thats what Im saying, Im no doom sayer.
@goatinaunitedshirt
None of the things you outline are unique to United. In which case you’re saying that any professional football club is ‘not a football club’, right?
So what is a football club?
@kanchelskis – Have to agree with you there – Zero dialogue with the supporters at any point.
@ fitb – Excellent point about future managers when they start penny pinching hiring a new manager we’ll see who sticks around. ROM will be quieter and those who think there’s an Anti-American agenda going on here will fuck off as well.
The new manager comes in has a bad run and they’ll be calling fro his head inside OT as its no longer the same inside the ground due to too many quiet people and not enough singing. Then you hear the quiet’s ones speak up and its never anything positive they’ll get him sacked especially with the impatience of the owners.
I wouldn’t like to put a timescale on when Fergie retires but it’s going to be sooner rather than later. Fergie may have a say on who the next manager is, it doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be the right man for the job and it won’t ever go on public record that he was hand picked by Fergie either.
@NRD:
Exactly mate, we were a debt free football club, we were successful enough before the Glazers took over. The mould of success was already in our club when the Glazers took over. Some fans here forget about this.
All the achievement since the take over was not due to the Glazers. In fact, the Glazers don’t deserve any credit to our club successful years since 2005.
The mould of success has already been there ever since!
goatinaunitedshirt says:
“United with the Glazers is fantastic”
____________________________________________________________________________
Is it fantastic because of the Glazers?
Buggering off now. May pick up this debate when I get home if I can be arsed.
NotoriousRedDevil – And that is why I want a new ownership, in preparation for the boss’s retirement. Because I cannot seeing these leaches going the extra mile and appointing a world class manager, heck they did not seem to folk out the money for new CM players, and we have yet to give welbeck a new contract that matches what he thinks he deserves, if they had to be woken up to give rooney what he wants, and it took a transfer request, what fucking hope do we have, that they will sign the best manager money can buy, when they cannot do it for the playing squad. And they were lucky kagwa’s contract was almost up, or our only signing would have been powell so far
Of course Anti scouser the mug shows up today.
“First of all, how do you know what he BELIEVES? Second, and not less important, why is it even important what he believes? If I SAY I believe that killing people is wrong, but still do it, is it more important what I SAY I believe or what I do?”
Of course nobody can tell exactly what he believes but you can make an accurate assertion as to what direction he wants for the club. If his 25 years at tthis club are anything to go by, it is clear as day except to blind fuckers like you that he wants the best for this football club.
“I read nonsense here every day, but this is beyond nonsense. The man was/is a great manager, but to proselytize any individual in this way is stupid and potentially harmful. Elevating him to some god-like genious heights is only good for covering up his mistakes which he’s not immune from making.”
This is the most ignorant post of the day. Nobody. let me repeat NOBODY has elevated Sir Alex to god-like status. It is a little thing I like to call respect for the man who turned the club around when it was headed for a dead end. A little respect once in a while is nice. how do you feel when you do somethign for someone and he treats you like scum in return. Do you feel great? If he didn’t give a shit about this club and left it to die, we wouldn’t even be here right now talking about how United was once a debt free juggernaut free to spend its massive revenue on whatever it wanted. He put the club in that position. Think about it.
Wiuru, I was reading about the IPO in the Telegraph where lots of ABUs were commenting below the article. Some pathetic comments but interesting to see the lack of recommends. There were just as many sympathetic comments from the likes of Merseyside, illustrating (perhaps) the wider debate over Football governance. For me, the fact that ABUs lap this up and predict our demise isn’t important.
And here was me hoping for Guardiola,still available too.
@goat – Have to disagree about latin markets.
Veron
Forlan
Kleberson
Instead of looking how they turned out, look at the hype when we signed them, everyone was excited even if they didn’t achieve the success they should have done.
Also Ruud Van Nistelrooy knocked back Real Madrid to join us. Barthez when he signed was arguably the best goalie in the world at that time. So we did have pulling power after we won the Treble. The only player we went for that Barca got and we didn’t was Ronaldinho. Can’t think of any other top players that we chased and got knocked back not publicly anyway. We even publicly stated we weren’t interested in Batisituta!
Compare it to now. You state pulling power with Barca and Real.
Villa we made a bid, he went to Barca.
Benzema made a bid, he went Real Madrid, even Varene went there!!!
The Hazard fiasco (ok chelski but same principle)
In fact other than Tony V who was already in PL has any player during the glazer regime knocked back Real or Barca to join us. I’m not sure they have.
I’m not saying I’m gutted about missing out on these players (especially Hazard), but to say they pick up all the latin players is wrong. Their employment laws aren’t as strict as ours when it comes to football certainly back then. We let more non-EU players in this country now but never used to. They refused to give a work permit to a World Cup Winner back in 1997 Mauro Silva. Thats whats changed in the UK the employment laws, Has fuck all to do with glazers.
Apparently, if you can’t buy your own house with cash outright, you don’t deserve to live in it, or lease it out to generate income.
If you can’t buy your car with cash outright, you shouldn’t be able to own it and drive it.
When I support something, and know clearly what I want from contributing the support, nothing else matters.
I support a certain singer, doesn’t mean I have any right over how he/she leads his/her private life, where he/she holds concerts, and how much the manager is paid – I just listen to the albums released, watch the concerts when the opportunity arises, and that’s it.
I support AMD, so I use their products with a super heavy bias – I don’t care how much they pay their employees/CEO, how much they pay to GlobalFoundries, how much worse their products are compared to Intel, I just know the industry cannot afford to have Intel monopolising and that I have no problems with the slightly worse off performance but could do with the extra cash savings.
I support/worship United, so I just enjoy the football, the fact that I was lucky enough to be around when SAF/Cantona/Giggs are synonymous with United (just like those lucky enough to have seen Duncan Edwards and/or George Best). Who the owners are won’t change United’s history nor the future – what will be will be. Someone once told me, blame those who sold United on. I actually think that is a fairer statement – they were the ones whose eyes lit up and wanted to pocket the cash the Glazers were offering.
And I insist – all those casting doubt in the way of SAF are right twats. That man has earned every single right to say any single thing he wants to. And he’ll still be right. Remembered less fondly? Piss.right.off. I for one will be shedding more than a tear when he waves goodbye to the world.
I’ve been fed up of the anti glazer stuff from the beginning.
Going to blow my own trumpet here. I’m reasonably smart. Intelligent enough to know that I know fuck all about economics. Yet, 95% of people on either side of the argument think they are qualified to speak about the financial position of the club. They aren’t.
All I know is I’d prefer not to be in debt but that’s sometimes part of business. I hope however likely or unlikely it is that one day we will be debt free and in those circumstances I’m more than happy for the Glazer’s to own the club as they are a steady hand on the tiller if nothing else.
And if it is not the vast majority of financial experts we have to listen to then the rest of our fans are so full of shite also that it’s not even funny. How many fans heralded the departure of our so called hardcore support to FC United upon the Glazer takeover when in fact these fans simply deserted the club.
I’m also fed of idiots who were never satisfied in the past with the ownership situation and are still not satisfied. These people are not realistic. The sort of people who are so idiotic to think the Green and Gold Campaign was a good idea. It was pure embarrassing and absolutely pathetic.
I could go on but I wont. Suffice it to say I’ve found Duncan Drasdo, the Red Knights, Green and Gold and a whole bunch of other folk who have made themselves prominent on matters of the clubs ownership – to be absolute clowns.
@Notorious
Hi mate. Speaking of pre 2005, how many times did we break the British transfer record before that.
@fitb – I’ve gone on record saying Rooney is a cunt but an excellent footballer. Prior to him handing in a transfer request I was one of very few on here saying that he’s being underpaid when it came to his wages and everyone was saying he was greedy. Whilst footballers are overpaid, very few are going to be saintlike to appease the supporters. Most of us are men here and nobody on here wants to be paid less than what they are worth, regardless of the profession. From what I read at the time the offer Rooney had and what he wanted was miles apart.
The way he went about getting what he wanted was cuntish end of story but you don’t say he’s one of the best players in the world publicly and then not pay the premiums that go along with that. Thought we learnt our lesson with Keano in regards to that, but its crept back in since erm…2005. What happened that year….ah right the glazers came in.
Yoryor
That’s the problem mate United already owned their house. It was debt free and paid for.
Kanchelskis
Completely agree mate, a cash machine nothing more nothing less.
And why did Arsene Wenger come out and say there have been No bids for Van Persie?And why is No one mentioning that Real Madrid’s President said he wants Lucas ? Still think we will get them.
I cannot understand why everyone is behaving as if our club is going to die. If we were to die because of this debt then we would have by now. We would have been like liverpool but no we are still challenging for every top trophies. When fergie goes we will still have a strong squad.
And what the fuck is this that we will not find a new manager? We are manchester united. Top managers will be vying to manage our club. Whether it be Jose or Pep. We are worrying unnecessarily.
My only wish is we keep on winning trophies and by the time Sir alex retires our debt either should have been gone or should be only minimal (Less than 100 millions pound)
Somebody else mentioned this earlier but it applies here too. There are some posters who hate the owners, they dislike the manager snx often slate the team and individual players. One wonders why the fuck they support Manchester United?
Brett1985
Top post mate.
@ Costas – Depends who you want to believe on here some would have you believe that we probably never have. If I’m not mistaken wasn’t Bryan Robson a British Transfer Record?
Did I just read Manchester United get compared to a microprocessor. Dearie me.Thats the solution stick a micrprocessor up the players arse that will have them performing better. Should do wonders in midfield.
The mantra
“Glazers are good because we are winning things”
Well friends, I’m glad some of the heat and intemperate invective has died down and people are trying to figure things out in more considered terms. I haven’t read everything that’s been said, partly because it’s hard to understand posts that are so badly spelt and end up as just a jumble of angry spew. It would help if the debate could exclude crude anti-Americanism or its opposite, blowhard defences of how wonderful everything is in the USA.
One of the things that inevitably fuels supporter anger is the seeming unwillingness or inability of the Glazers to explain to fans what they are doing and why they are doing it. There is no sign that they value us beyond the revenues they can raise through our passions and they end up looking aloof and uncaring about the future health of the game and the relationship between fans and club.There is a coldness about their attitude which is alienating to an extraordinary degree. Do they not have decent PR advice so they could at least give the impression of respecting us and our fears for the future?
I’m not a financial expert but I have an instinctive anxiety about the way the Glazers (can we please have an agreement that we’ll at least try to spell their name correctly?) purchased Manchester United by loading such a huge debt on the club, which had previously been debt-free , making them financially the most healthy sporting institution in the land.
Those enxieties crystalise around the simple figures that over half a billion pounds have been taken OUT of United (in fees, interest charges etc) while across the way Manchester City have had one billion pounds put INTO their club.
I’m no fan of either model of ownership (I regard City’s success as deeply tainted, and their inflation of transfer fees and player salaries as ultimately corrupting of the game, as they have just hoover up all the best players ) but we are where we are.
It’s so obvious why Sir Alex Ferguson has defended the owners in the way he has, and supporters shouldn’t vent too much of their anger at him. He’s not got many years left at the top and he has to live with the regime as it is. It’s known he was never comfortable with the previous set up (the PLC), so he may genuinely feel happier with things now, with them at arm’s length in the US.
Some have pointed to the success United have had on the field in the Glazer years but that was generally in keeping with the trajectory of the club over the previous ten years or so, not something one can confidently credit the Glazers for.
The biggest fear is that United will soon no longer be able to compete with teams at home like City, Chelsea and others who have outspent United over the last five years, not to mention Barca or Real Madrid and the top Italian sides. If that happens it will clearly be down to the indebtedness imposed on United, and we really will want answers about the way the club is being managed.
There have been strong defences of the current situation by those who know more about such matters than I do. But I have to say I feel deep anxiety about what’s going on at United, and the game more widely.
First up, Glazers are complete and utter cunts…. fact!!!
Is this IPO a shit deal for investors??? Sure it is. As a purely economic deal, it is a poor investment and if I were a finance adviser I would be telling investors to keep clear.
However, these morons wiping of at least some of the debt through this can only be positive. Less debt the better. Obviously I would prefer all the funds from the flotation to be invested in the club, but lets be honest, this is a shit situation and this news is better than nothing.
It has also shown the Glazers to be in a weak position. This make its clear their ownership of the club is untenable and shows that their long-term stranglehold on the club is in serious jeopardy. Call me optimistic, but I think this could be the first step in the Glazers taking the money and running before they are neck deep in shit (if they aren’t there already). This is start of the Glazer’s demise. Who gives a shit if they sell some shares for personal gain between now and then, as long as they aren’t taking money out of the club on their way (selling assets, taking cash on hand etc.), who gives a shit? If they sold a substantial stake in the club tomorrow, and the club didn’t see a cent, seeing the back these cunts is still good news.
Ash – but you are failing to realize, what manager is willing to go along with these financial times. I still stand by my point, the debt should be gone by the time fergie retires, if it is not, and the next manager fails, this club could be in trouble, especially if we do not make the top 4. And I am not convinced one bit, that they will folk out the cash for the next manager when they cannot do it on the playing side, we may see some okish manager thinking he can take on a job this big, and in one year we may all be pulling our hair out
Sir Giles
You frigging beauty, you’ve pulled back in here like a magnet…….Was not planning to post for a few days…………..
By the way and just to quote a friend….
Blame Fergie? FUCK OFF
@Parryheid Arsene Wenger REGULARLY does that. I remember him claiming that Fabregas will not be sold just ONE WEEK before Fabregas was sold to Barcelona for 35 million.
Sure Real Madrid want Lucas but that does not change the fact that we put in a bid for him and are showing intent to try and improve the team. The INTENT is what I am driving at. Not us actually getting them.
To let the Glazers took over the club and pay the shareholders with loan is oxymoron.
To let the loan become the club debt is oxymoron.
To pay the loan with IPO money, which IPO actually means selling shares of the club, is oxymoron.
.. Our history is being written, right here right now!
I am getting bored of all this shit, just want to see the lads on the pitch v Everton, then I want to sing my fucking heart out watching Kagawa and the lads………..I ain’t fucking marching 4000 miles to protest against the owners
To the glazers …… Once you have had your share of united and our money I really hope you invest millions into transfers as if we don’t land RVP or Lucas you will be answerable because this is not the right timing at all.. All we hear is city and Chelsea spending on players that in fact we would want to buy but we don’t seem to want to invest in the best players we seem to buy young players and fingers crossed turn into world class footballers but it needs balance with a star signing like RVP . Don’t ruin our club and out history my thinking is will we be the next rangers??????
true cedarsdevil. Cannot wait tll united’s next game. takes my mind off this ugly debate today.
FITB says
‘ this club could be in trouble, especially if we do not make the top 4′
Sir alex won’t let that happen. For us to finish outside of top 4 will mean when Sir alex leaves our squad is shit. Sir alex won’t do that. Liverpool were gradually becoming poor. It didn’t happen in one night. They didn’t have a rooney or young player like Hernandez,De gea,Jones etc like players who could lead them and who could help them to be on top. No way I am supporting glazer after today’s act but the deal we have made with chevrolet is a big one. It will stabilise us. So we will always have money and we can buy players. Honestly the debt would be minimal when sir alex retires. So I see no worry for us not finishin in top 4.
@ Sir Giles – Top post, good to see you here. I refuse to spell glazers with a capital G although sometimes I do because I forget, they don’t deserve any respect.
@brett1985 – We could take your logic and apply it to football. None of us are actually qualified in saying who’s a good player and who isn’t and yet we do game after game, season after season. I get your point the ones who formed FC United need to go take a long hard look in the mirror, they had a a chance to buy up shares from the minute we floated. If I was born in the 70s and not the 80s I would have bought shares. MUST – I asked a member why they didn’t try buying up shares from when we floated, got a politicians answer which is basically no answer at all.
@Ash – We weren’t challenging for every trophy last season. In fact many were quite happy we were out of all the competitions so we could focus on the league. Look how that turned out, admittedly there were mitigating factors with injuries. But no excuse to not qualify from the easiest CL group we’ll ever get. We all assumed we would get out that group but we didn’t. Anything can happen in football and sad as it is the vermin got their hands on silverware last season
Ash – read my post, once fergie is gone I said, not when he is here. Chelsea failed to finish in the top 4 when they started switching managers, so it could happen to us
Most Royal United here, don’t know both sides of the story, but are quick to react by pointing fingers at one side! We need to demand more information before making any accusation. I always treat media reports, with a pinch of salt! I would like to hear Glazers side officially before making any comment about it! “Stay come and believe in United!”
@Notorious
Speaking of which, I believe it’s 4 league titles, 1 European Cup, 1 Club world Championship and 3 Carling Cups in the 7 years they’ve owned the club. Looking at the 7 year period before they bought the club (98-05): 4 league titles, 1 European Cup, 1 Club World Championship and 2 FA cups. So technically, we have been more successful during their tenure.
Anyway, like I’ve said before, it’s not just about the trophies for me. We won them under the PLC regime and we’ve won them under the Glazers. My biggest concern is the prospect of the team that’s currently built. Will it be competitive in the years to come? Will we afford to buy a player that could be the missing piece of the puzzle? Because as things stand, I don’t know how much progress has been made since the summer of 2009.
Weeeeee are the pride of all Europe the cock of the north, we hate the scousers and cockneys of course AND leeds……..
UNITED UNITED UNITED
Come on fellas, where the fuck is the support, enough of this bollocks already
Giles
Marvellous post sir, its sometimes hard to be considered for myself I’m an emotionally reactive individual.
I hadnt seen any anti Americanism slurs, other than people casting aspersions stating so.
Where the hell is that lebanese good man..Cedars?
I cant even find the Irish one line genius for the last few days…willie my man, if you’re reading this, I most definitely am missing your comic relief..
Costas
You are taking up Willie’s one line mantle mate
Kanchelskis
Some very good posts mate – Sir Alex is trying his best here and I dont begrudge him receiving any money from this IPO…he deserves it. He isn’t even the best paid manager in the league last few years, Wemgers been getting more…so I’m okay with that. But he really should be a bit more sensitive to fans feelings is what I would say.
Mike and Giggs12
Some top posts lads.
I really dont understand The Glazers getting the credit for us winning things on the pitch. Its as if we have suddenly started winning after they’ve arrived. Even the commercial success part, All that commercial deals and brand name — didn’t we have a brand name and a commercial income before Glazers arrived?
Yes, I wont begrudge them the fact thay’ve taken it forward, but really all their commercial success is down to the history and heritage of the club and the continuous success the club have had in the last 20 years, success in which the Glazers have played no part in achieving. The commercial deals are being strung because all those companies want to take advantage of the 659 million (and growing) fans of the club and those fans are here because of the History and success of the club under Sir Matt Busby and SIr Alex. I dont think any major portion of those 659 million people became fans because Glazers suddenly became United owners ?
And besides, its not as if David Gill and all the other commercial people that the club had before Glazers came in were complete mugs…I’m sure they too would have found ways to increase United’s commercial income ..
Denton Davey
I am a fan of your fooball posts mate. Usually very well thought out and articulated. Not always agree with everything but most things I do and even when I dont, your posts do make sense.
However, I cannot agree with some of the logic you’ve outlined in the post above mate. You mention a four peat and two missed opportunities in last six years…mate before 2002, we were on a 8 peat with two missed opportunities in between…The success in the last six years is nothing to do with the Glazer ownership mate? I think that much is quite clear…In fact, much of the success is down to players that were signed before Glazers arrived — Rooney, Ronaldo and Rio being the three main reasons for our success…
‘All the value signings have done well’ — indeed they have –and that was always our model mate, we had our fair share of value buys always, but we also punctuated that with big money transfer record signings to add that extra bit of quality to the squad – Andy Cole, Roy Keane, Robson,Rio, Barthez were all transfer record signings in some ways…even Rooney at 30+ m for a teenager. We no longer do that for some reason nowadays. The success on the pitch is because of the brilliance of Sir Alex mate. We all know the squad over the last couple of years has been a lot worse than the treble side or even the 2007-08 side and the only reason we’ve got close is because of Sir Alex’s brilliance in dragging us through. There has been a staggering need for investment into the squad and all we’ve heard is ‘value’ – do you not think De Rossi or Schweinsteiger for 30 m would have represented value in the long term…? (the effective cost would just have been 20 mn over the years assuming a 33% corporate tax rate as player amortization is a tax deductible expense [just like interest] for those interested in finance!!
)
Let us not be blinded by the success we have had in the last few years as proof of good ownership – That is down to Sir Alex and his brilliance…
This could lead to the float failing.
If that happens, the Glazers will be put in a real shitty position, could work out well if they’re forced to sell….
Sir Giles
A few posters have been disputing the term ManU…. I remember the in depth articles you posted on the matter a while ago. Do you have a link to them so people can gain an insight?
Cedars
Knew you couldn’t stay away!!!
Costas
Epic job in catching them freaks earlier! Was not too hard mind you……
UNITED UNITED UNITED
Why the fuck does it got classed as anti-semetic, or anti American for criticising the Glazers & their raping & pillaging of club coffers.
It’s got fuck all to do with being American, or jewish, but all to do with being parasitic leeches bleeding the club dry.
What do the Bucs fans think of them? & they are Americans so you can use the race card shit.
Reel off what we’ve won under their ownership.
Is that due to them, or Ferguson?
At the end of the day, they turned a club that paid top prices for top players, yet still made a tidy profit, into one riddled with debt.
The only good thing is, i find ithard to see them being able to fleece the club in this route as the price for what you are bring given, is absolutely fucking ridiculous & theres surely no way they are gonna shift many of these.
They truly have no shame & really do take the clubs support as grade1 Fukin idiots.
My own major problem is that news that glazers made a U-turn and will now take half of a certain part of the proceeds for themselves. I personally think they should not take any part of the potential proceeds. They need to put it all into clearing this debt on time. I mean don’t they want to be debt free? do they like the banks on their necks all day? Other than that I have not been invested in this whole LUHG thing.
Mike
I was forced into it mate and I mean real force was used! ha ha ha
Sir Giles
Respect and nothing but respect for your thoughts and sentiments.
Cedars
Had started writing my long post earlier composing my thoughts – didn’t know you had posted in the meanwhile…glad to see you back buddy…
Red Devil
Cheers mate, I was actually forced and slapped into posting again but that’s another story…..
UNITED UNITED UNITED
United united united
@ Costas – We haven’t been more successful. Have you seen the way our fans treat the Carling Cup.
Form me 2 FA Cups > 3 Carling Cups.
More successful pre glazer for me.
@ Cedars – All due respect mate, this isn’t bollocks. Much rather be talking footy BUT when you see whats happened at Pompey, Rangers and leads before them. Its a serious issue but always get glossed over by the footy. We’re much more than just what goes on the pitch. 1958 – I’m sure I don’t need to go into it. That was more than just the football side. Anyway, had a feeling you would show up once I mentioned Robbo
There are many things that I don’t like the Glazer ownership for and most of the negative opinions about it have their merit, it just that I don’t see a solution. They are sitting to comfortable in Florida. The worst thing is that IMO Man Utd as club will only get out of this situation only if Glazers succeed. As horrible as it sounds that’s what my logic tells me and I don’t have an answer to this problem.
Cedars
You must have gotten all cranky and started talking about how costas would be doing stats or willie would be making jokes during your date with Linda…She must have bitch-slapped you and forced you into getting back on here to retain your sanity
Question. Who has done more for Manchester United, Danny Welbeck or Darcy Glazer? Who is going to get a no questions asked payout of $25m and who is having to haggle for a few thousand extra pounds? How can anybody possibly think that there is nothing wrong with this picture?
denton davey – if the glazers have done such a great job, what if fergie along with ronaldo rooney ferdinand vidic and evra were not there? lets see how far their model would have gone between 2005-09? any ownership could have done what they have done between 05-09, let the boss handle the transfer buisness, manage the team, stick their nose out of the playing side, and you have a damn fine structure on your hands
Once saw a man walking a sheep in the hills, I said ‘o i what are you doing’ He said ‘I am off to shag it’ I said ‘ That is a bit fucking weird’ he said ‘ Not as weird as supporting fucking leeds’
Fitb
Like I said with the downfall of scouse the downfall of chelsea didn’t happen overnight. They were no longer the same side after mourinho but still they have won top trophies. With or without luck they have managed to win the biggest prize in european football. And honestly our squad is always better than chelsea. I know manager plays a very important role but players matter the most. If you have good players you will always be on top.
And one more thing Glazers> Roman. But I still don’t like the glazers.
Why the fuck does it get classed as anti-semetic, or anti American for criticising the Glazers & their raping & pillaging of club coffers.
It’s got fuck all to do with being American, or jewish, but all to do with being parasitic leeches bleeding the club dry.
What do the Bucs fans think of them? & they are Americans so you can use the race card shit.
Reel off what we’ve won under their ownership.
Is that due to them, or Ferguson?
At the end of the day, they turned a club that paid top prices for top players, yet still made a tidy profit, into one riddled with debt.
All beside the fact the massive damage they’ve inflicted to our support.
The only good thing is, i find ithard to see them being able to fleece the club in this route as the price for what you are bring given, is absolutely fucking ridiculous & theres surely no way they are gonna shift many of these.
They truly have no shame & really do take the clubs support as grade1 Fukin idiots.
@Red Devil
Nah, willie is one of a kind mate. I couldn’t emulate him. Where the fuck is he by the way?
@Cedars
Hi pal. Red Captain Park wasn’t that hard to track down. He’s popped up at ROM so many times that I know his personas by heart. Don’t know why he feels the need to make the same point three times. It’s not a popularity contest.
@Notorious
Personally speaking, I’d prefer the 2 FA cups as well. But as far as major honours go, it’s exactly the same. The oxymoron is our Ch.League performance under the Glazers. One could argue that we were more successful compared to 98-05 because we also reached 2 finals. However, we were also knocked out of the group stages twice.
All in all, I’d say trophies were a frequent sight at Old Trafford even before the club was bought in 2005. And at the same rate as well.
Notorious
Believe me very few people are qualified to comment on football either.
However to put my point another way one only has to look at the banking crisis to know that experts in their field often do not quite know what they are doing. Unless you were Max Keiser you probably didn’t see that coming whether you were a banker, an economic or the prime minister. Yet, when discussing the Glazer ownership everyone presents their views vociferously and often as fact. I just think these people fail to understand how little credibility they actually have and Duncan Drasco gets away with treating united fans as morons which in fairness most of us are.
After mourinho left*
Red Devil
You’ve hit the nail on the head mate………..A bit of advice to everyone on here, never get your gf involved on the blog!
UNITED UNITED UNITED
@Mike
I like that logic. Heck, even Pogba and Fryers’ demands seem reasonable compared to the amount Darcy Glazer will get.
Mikekelly12
When I read your post of JULY 31, 2012 AT 17:39, my blood boiled. How could we wnot pay A player like welbeck is beyond me. Sign him to a long term. Can;t afford to lose him. No way.
Goatinaunitedshirt is either a blue nose; a WUM, David Gill or a troll.
The Glazers are all that is wrong with football. You can twist words, play people off against each other or bring politics into it all you want BUT it all comes down to this;
They are raping our club. No doubts. Wax lyrical all you want. Nothing will change.
Also; half the names on here were pro-Glazer (check previous threads) but now it’s popular to be the other way you all change.
Nothing but top Reds on here…
Costas
Haven’t seen willie for a few days mate…wonder if he’s taking time off the blog
Cedars
Haha. Had a feeling mate
NRD – spot on. 2 FA Cups > 100 Carling Cups tbh.
What are we? Just a bunch of bouncing Busby Babes
UNITED UNITED UNITED
United never owned themselves. A club, or an entity, cannot possibly own itself. It is either privately owned, or publicly listed and “cloud owned”. It may be twisted how Glazers owned the club and used it for mortage without owning it first, but it’s exactly how most people own their own homes/cars unless they inherited it.
Like Ced@rs, I’m just looking forward to football from United. And it has come to a stage where losses sting, but it doesn’t make me not look forward to the next match.
And for the record, I will be trying to get my hands on at least a single share.
I’d like to see SAF get the same success if the owners were like Abramovich who reportedly faxed team sheets to him. Or the Magnier who tried to sack SAF over a Rock horse.
Ooooh when the REDS go marching in, oh when the REDS go marching in, I wanna be in that number oh when the REDS go marching in
UNITED UNITED UNITED
Mike
Darcie vs Welbeck
Haha…no contest mate…And I’m telling you, If Pogba goes on to be a great midfield player, we will be regretting him leave on wage related grounds..Although that being said, I didn’t like the way that he was black-mailing our club for a few pounds at this stage. If he’d stayed and proved his worth this year, I’m sure no one would have be-grudged him his money.
However, its fact that both him and Fryers left primarily on wage grounds. two areas we are desperately seeking cover in…
YorYor – so United is of no more importance than a car or home owned by the Glazer family. Got it.
brett1985
Fair enough…but would you rather have people not commenting on anything at all mate…Just because they are not experts in everything? And as you rightly point out, even experts are wrong sometimes, so there should no opinion anywhere at all ?
I’d really love to see the people saying United is just a business say that “United is just a business (or mortgaged car)” to Sir Matt Busby’s face…or even to Sir Bobby Charlton or Paddy Crerand’s face for that matter
Fuck me sideways, anyone been watching the women’s volleyball at the Olympics? I know Daz the Bomb has………This is hysterically over joyous shit!
Mike 17.39
Spot on mate, how are we penny pinching on Welbz yet the Glazer family tree will Pocket a cool $25 mil.
red Devil 18.04
Fucking correct mate, we all know the profits it generates but its still a football club. I nearly swallowed my tongue at the suggestion we are a franchise.
Every cloud though…..
Got an Everton brief at the first time of asking.
@ Fred – You left out microprocessor. United is of no more importance than a car, house and microprocessor.
Thanks for nice comments folks.
MikeKelly12, if you click on Archive at the top of RoM you’ll see a list of Authors, including my name. If you click on that you can find all the 37 articles I’ve had the pleasure of writing for RoM, including the two on ‘ManU’. As I told Scott a couple of days ago, I have plenty more I plan to write. Just having a bit of a breather as my health has not been great, mainly side effects of treatment – which, I hasten to add, has gone better than expected. I love this site and all you rascally people here, all you Reds with your sometimes cantanerous opinions. That’s how it sould be.
@clint
“ we are complaining and worried about how the fuck the Glazers plan to fund our battle against the richer clubs while being in shitloads of debts that need to be paid off by 2018. We are unhappy about the net spend, the interest payments, the IPO, the glazers rinsing our pockets ( season tickets etc).”
You have just highlighted the biggest problem with the anti Glazer movement argument, the complaints are at opposing sides of reality. By this I mean
They want us to compete with sugar daddy clubs
They take offence that despite the 3rd highest transfer spend in the league that the club have managed to get good money for sales pushing our net spend well down
They take offence to ticket prices no longer being subsidised as they were under the PLC as well as offence to the level of commercialism around the club
Basically it seems most of those complaining want every penny of sales spent plus then tens of millions on top with top level wages spent to compete with the sugar daddy clubs but don’t want the club to maximise every single commercial revenue stream to the max.
@Mash
I would bet my life on the fact we would be in the same position as Arsenal WITHOUT the Glazers (or someone like them) because the PLC Wouldn’t have been able to respond as they were in the same kind of position as I have said many of the anti glazers are in and were trying to serve two separate goals that are incompatible. You can’t try and compete financially without maximising every revenue stream
@Kanchelskis
Evidence actually suggests otherwise. In the NFL they have a history of valuing the ‘head coach’ and throwing money at trying to get the right one often at the expense of the budget for players and for their draft picks. They are a lot more hands off so they may not go after Mourinho as I suspect Gill will block it but if they were hands on I would put money on them doing what they needed to get Mourinho. After all anyone with an interest in sport knows that the right ‘coach’ is more important than just spending money. The Glazers may not be football fans but they are American Football fans
@dannysoya
Personal and Business finance are different beasts. Business finance the rule is spend as much as you can afford to borrow.
And they aren’t planning on selling Carrington and the likes. Its part of risk assessment in a financial document that’s required to show how you can protect investors should the worst happen.
@Giggs12
But as I keep trying to point out every business is in ‘debt’. It’s not always called debt but at the core of it every business owes those who own it money.
And yes I think their models perfectly find and workable. Perhaps if like most fans I was viewing it with only a ‘fan cap’ on I might be joining in on the Glazer bashing but as a business owner myself I realise we aren’t living in a fairy tale world where every one of our desires is granted and they are Probally the best of the available options.
As for money being taken away from the club into the Glazers pockets, where is this money going into the Glazers pockets from the clubs accounts. There isn’t a significant amount doing that. As I have said its hard to have a problem with with them taking a cut of the IPO as they have a lot of their own money tied up in the club which they are unlocking some of it by selling some shares. They fact they have given the club 8million of their shares to sell and retain the revenue in the club is actually more than they have to do, they could have floated all the shares themselves and covered all the money they personally invested in buying the club instead.
@hasselbom
With the symbol it will be a combination of the following
1) available ticker symbols
2) what’s most recognisable to buyers. They aren’t aiming the shares at fans after all so just as a lot of sports broadcasters will use MANU in the scores for that reason it will be the same here.
And ultimately it’s only become offensive as we have let others make it that way. Busby would refer to us as ManU so if it’s good enough for him should we really let others make it an offensive term to us.
@kanchelskis/Jeet
It should be listed on most online trading portals such as etrade.com or offline your bank should be able to either help you or point you in the right direction. However I’m not sure it’s really worthwhile to invest as a fan who doesn’t already have a stock portfolio. They aren’t a stock aimed at fans looking to make a casual investment
@Gee
Because debt isn’t a problem and doesn’t make them bad owners. Unless you are going to label the management of many of the most profitable companies in the world as bad.
And they HAVE invested their own money. The leveraged amount is about half the total amount required for the Glazers to buy 100% of shares. The rest comes from the Glazers pocket and the £150mill PIK which was in the Glazers name
As for Roman he is effectively taking money from Chelsea. Every penny he has invested has been swapped for preferential shares. Preferential shares have a guaranteed dividend payout and if he wishes to pull out would need purchased by the club.
@Giggs12
Except you keep ignoring the fact that they purchased the first 30% themselves and that only £510m of the £790mill was leveraged. So they DID invest their own money.
@sebaveron
People like that are idiots. So just like most companies floating they are implementing an employee share scheme which Fergie may benefit from. I’m pretty sure he would have also benefited when the club became a PLC yet was anyone kicking up a fuss.
What makes my blood boil is the way that article implies that the Glazers and by extension anyone in the share scheme will be siphoning money out of the club. Are these people just stupid because no money is going out of the club and the shares don’t belong to the club. The Glazers have gifted the club 8million shares to sell and given another chunk of shares to give to employees in the club (which I suspect when it says selected it will basically mean anyone who isn’t a player who meets certain criteria such as reaching a certain number of years of service often something like 2 years)
But no lets all ignore that and not only attack the Glazers but also Fergie for no valid reason other than some incorrect belief that they are taking money out of the club.
@mikekelly12
Actually it doesn’t expressly say it all would just that the intention was to use the 100mill. I believe if you go read Andy Greens tweets he even stated at the time that should the Glazer could profit if more than the ‘holding’ amount was achieved or if it was oversubscribed
@denton davey
brilliant post
@Giggs12
How has the ownership changed our traditions anymore than the PLC, the Edwards and the likes did.
Once again another hysterical response from you. I suspect the Glazers could pay off the debt completely and give every fan worldwide £1mill and you and others would still find a way to have a hysterical response about how they are destroying the club.
@NotoriousRedDevil
Not completely true though is it. We had debt it just wasn’t labelled as debt on the balance sheet. And our marketing team was a shambles which the shareholders were pointing out every year. Yes they were better than the rest of the leagues marketing teams but weren’t good enough with Abramovichs money came into play.
We needed to move from the PLC to have any chance against sugar daddy’s.
@Kancheslkis
Ah we are back to Lerner being held up as a better owner now are we. The guy who has withdrawn more money from the club in less time than the Glazers and hasn’t done anything to really grow he club commercially.
As for why don’t they make statements if things are ok. In Business you speak as little as you can and largely restrict it to sterile press releases. Especially in this day and age someone looking for a eye catching story so you say as little as you can so it can’t be twisted. No matter what someone would make a story out of it as we see when Risk Assessment sections are twisted into serious story’s like the ones that reported when the bonds were being sold that OT and Carrington would be sold and leased back.
@Giles Oakley
Their PR would tell them not to respond. MUST were so aggressive towards them from the off and have continually twisted every announcement for their own means that responding is just asking for trouble.
@Mike &Giggs12
FFS Welbeck and Darcy Glazer are completely different. The Glazers Invested something in the region of £400mill in total so it’s not like they are getting money for nothing. And once again this money each Glazer will get ISN’T coming out of the club unlike the £3mill plus a year that Welbeck apparently wants which does come out of the clubs money.
Again it’s more like each Glazer is GIVING the club £25million for nothing than them taking £25mill
Thanks Giles, and I’m glad to hear you’re on the road to recovery. Best of health to you.
There you have it folks, click on Archives at the top and select Giles… 2 fantastic articles on the origins of the ManU term.
And the new Manchester Unired employee of the year…
Wakey
The PR spin doctor himself
If the IPO fails,, then the Value of United will come down drastically! and that may force Glazer to sell. Problem will be if the costs might escalate. But still ‘BELIEVE’ United will push on through!
@giggs12.
By the time i finished work, read the headline story on this on Rom, flicked through the early responses by the time i posted earlier, i notice you have perfectly captured my exact feelings & sentiments on this many times over.
& to be fair, you’ve more right to spout of than me with you still being a regular, i turned my back on my 10-15 games a season when they stole the ronaldo cash spent next to fuck all in return.
The only way to get em out is a full boycott, & sadly i never see that day happening, not to say that those who’ve never missed a match in x amount of yrs don’t have the right to say Im not gonna miss a match cos of the parasitic gimps, but still too many day-trippers to fill the place of the now priced out hard core.
@STR, thanks for publishing this article, after nearly choking on reading their plans this morning, i was amazed to see it barely get a mention on the united sites i flit through.
That isn’t spin, i’m afraid Wakey’s just thrown reality into the mix. spot on.
@Giggs12Gerrard0
Wish I was an employee, atleast I would be getting paid for my time spent trying to get some of you to actually think about the situation logically rather than the default response by 90% of people that at times borders on rantings of mental patients.
People need to realise this isn’t the 1920′s. A Football club is a business, a business type that the Americans call a Franchise. The team itself is just a part of that, a part that relies on the other parts of the business as much if not more than the other parts rely on the team. Most owners can’t just open a chequebook, even those who can are usually just loading their clubs with debt more dangerous than our debt but their fans don’t complain as they are being bought. We need to stop acting like everything should be cheap for us the fans while the players are paid stupid money to get/keep them and spending ridiculous amounts on players unless you really do want an owner who will buy players under the managers nose, tell the manager who to pick, sack managers who dare disagree with him (or dare lose a single game), ignores our traditions of youth and leaves the club unable to survive once he gets bored of his vanity project
@Eric L’edieu
Seriously people like you and the Red Knights are five billion times worse than the Glazers. Anyone who dares suggest a boycott of the club doesn’t even have the right to call them a fan because what they are asking for fans to destroy the club. And why do you want to destroy the club to get rid of owners you don’t like because you believe they they are costing money others wouldn’t and that they aren’t entitled to
For almost 7 years now the EPL management have sat on their hands and let this situation develop.
There should be rules in place that prohibit an English football club from being owned by foreigners.
That would prevent the Glazers from selling UTD to any Middle East or Russian billionaire.
That would drop the value of UTD by at least half and make it possible for a rich fan , or group of fans, to buy the club.
This is by far the biggest problem facing football in England today, and it about time it was sorted out.
@ zibbie
With respect, I think your opinions are a little shortsighted and are exactly the polarised views that you claim to be against.
As with anything people the truth lies in the middle.
The glazers have crippled our beloved club with their debts and their sole aim should be (like anyone or business with massive debts) to pay them ASAP, and. It taking this opportunity to do so is everything that has ready been said in this thread.
But they are, in effect, stable owners, for they are in control of the dent and it has been steadily decreasing. Sure it has limited us in the transfer market ( and that is where most fan anger lies) but it is not in danger of turning us into rangers.
The glazers are very lucky to have had the success in their tenure on the pitch, basically they are lucky to have SAF and they may well pay the debt in a few years, but how far back would we have dropped by then? Will the damage have already been done if we city have won all in their path by then and we are no longer a draw for top players??
Only time will tell.
But Zibbie, seriously you need to wind your neck in and stop having a go at your fellow united fans, beachside they have a damn good point, and are not bonded by success on the pitch like you are. I’d like to see what your views are if we haven’t won the league in three years time…
@ zibbie
With respect, I think your opinions are a little shortsighted and are exactly the polarised views that you claim to be against.
As with anything people the truth lies in the middle.
The glazers have crippled our beloved club with their debts and their sole aim should be (like anyone or business with massive debts) to pay them ASAP, and. It taking this opportunity to do so is everything that has ready been said in this thread.
But they are, in effect, stable owners, for they are in control of the dent and it has been steadily decreasing. Sure it has limited us in the transfer market ( and that is where most fan anger lies) but it is not in danger of turning us into rangers.
Oh yeah Goat, I remember your “sling slaves on ships..’ racist tirades very well.. Interesting debate up there. I’m not a fan of debt, but who in this capitalist day in age isn’t in it??? Morgage? Rent? Car? Credit Cards? Students? I’m just saying, being £360m in debt and valued circa £2-3BILLION ain’t fucking half bad!
They will get more cash out of the equity sale than the equity is worth. Therefore, the higher the amount realized the better. The Glazers obviously need cash for some reason, hence 1] the higher sale amount and 2] that part of the proceeds they take. Its better than them taking more money out of our revenues.
I’ve been reading some of the comments here, and in my opinion, they’re wide of the mark. The Glazers are businessman, not sugardaddies. They are in this to make money. And it’s their right, unfortunately, because they own the club. They own it, its theirs just like their bathtub at home. The difference is that we arent fans of their bathtub, and we dont go to games there etc.
MUFC are unlike nearly any club in the world. We make a profit. So our owners are unlike nearly all others, they can afford to run it like a business. But do any of us think that were Everton in the same position, that their owners would run Everton in a vastly different way to the Glazers.
I think that when all is said and done, that the Glazers have been quite good owners. They havent interfered with Fergie or with day to day management ala Abramovitch, they have allowed him a certain amount to spend on transfers each year, and they have overseen probably the most successful spell ever for us.
If we win the season with 25million spent on transfers each year, why should they spend 100m? It would be a waste of money. LAst season showed that despite our continued success in the Prem, we need to spend more to catch up with Citeh and in Europe, and so we are spending. I guarantee you that we’ll still get a midfielder, and I feel like we’ll get RVP too.
OH, and the debt is coming down. Whats the big issue?
Hahahhaha….do.you remember what i said about that IPO…that on the end of the day…they will take money from IPO for themselfs, not for debt. I WAS RIGHT! How i knew that? All Capitalist think the same way….but Glazers are the worst kind of capitalists…
@goatinaunitedshirt.
If you believe for whatever reason that Glazer’s profits will somehow trickle down and benefit United in the long run, you’re absolutely clueless and completely out of touch with how our rich run things.
Or maybe you’re an American, in which case you’re probably Republican, one of those nitwits that believe right-wing policies will rescue our country from the very assholes that fund the said policies.
@giggs12
Yeah, as an American, I am very familiar with this kind of big company maneuvers. It disgusts me no less.
And to see it happen to a club I have loved and followed for over 15 years, is abso-fucking-lutely heart breaking.
I look at the whole SAF situation this way, if it wasn’t for the Glazers SAF wouldn’t still be with United. If it wasn’t for SAF’s genius keeping things ticking along, Glazers would literally have been lynched by United fans by now. It’s sad, but that’s how it is.
Good morning all…
Up already for work
GGM!!!!
Ask me about the glazers, and I’ll answer you with a </3
Ask me about the team MAN UTD and I'll sure answer you with a
Only 17 more days until the serious thing kick start
19 going for 20 glory glory man united!!!!!
@ WAKEY.
OK, so Im 5 billion times worse than the Glazers by wishing fans would stay away for a couple of games in the hope it would drive them out, cos that would damage the club.
Cos the glazers, 500 mill & all the excellent, genuine heart felt life long fans who passionately care about the club who’ve been driven away hasn’t damaged the club.
Or in the words of Fergie, do you agree they should all just fuck off & support chelsea.
As somebody has already posted here, the way the club is run is more than just about trophies.
As you’ll find out when Fergie leaves & no other manager can compete genuinely with the Glazers terms.
I can’t believe this! I have been a united fan since i was 8 years old. Unfortunately not much i can do to protest this locally. But I wonder what do local fans who have access to the stadium daily do for protest other than banners! Obviously they are immune to banners when they know they will be making millions!
can’t the majority come to an agreement and simply boycott games? Ok its not the best solution, but its a short term problem creation in order to bring the shit to the surface as this way the glazers will keep the problem and make it long term.
people should not go to games until their demands are completed !
The great Sir Matt will be turning in his grave.
Sad sad days. LUHG!
I think we all need to take a few deep breaths. In my honest opinion, the business side of things isnt affecting the club too badly. The Lucas Moura situation is a perfect example. If the Glazers werent in charge, we would probably be able to get him [although not for certain because we have never overspent, even before the current regime, and SAF's reluctance to spennd seems self-imposed: somewhat like Arsene Wenger's...].
But we still might, and we did put in a 26m pound bid after buying Kagawa for 17m, so its not as if we’re not spending at all. So it seems like its a fairly small difference between what we would like to spend and what we can spend.
Glazers have no shame. That’s where our focus should be, and not on the man who took us out of Liverpool’s shadow. 19
this is Zionism in football… they are raping a football club which is about football… Zionism is ruining football too now