It was announced today that Tom Cleverley has joined Wigan on a season long loan, after a will-he-won’t-he summer, with Sir Alex Ferguson initially stating our England U-21 midfielder would go out on loan, before changing his mind a few weeks ago. After some impressive pre-season performances, the manager thought Cleverley would be best used with our squad, however today has agreed terms with Wigan for the lad.
After being named Watford’s Player of the Year last season it will prove interesting to see how Cleverley copes playing week in week out in the Premiership. Whilst I believe he had something to offer our lightweight midfield, particularly between now and Christmas with the League Cup and Champions League group stage games, he will certainly get more playing time at Wigan.
This lad has a lot of potential and has been on the receiving end of lots of praise. He has been bigged up by United fans and the media alike and now is his time to prove himself.
“Tom is a very exciting young player and we are delighted he is coming to us,” said Wigan boss, Roberto Martinez. “He can play in a number of positions and will provide us with some good new options, and add great competition to the squad. We have been watching him for some time and feel he is the right sort of player to join our squad; young, hungry, desperate to play for the club in the Premier League and to grow with us.”
We wish him all the best at Wigan and will be keeping you updated to his progress on the blog.
Random Cleverley fact: He is known as ‘Chunks’ due to childhood speech impediment. He said ‘swimming chunks’ rather than ‘trunks’ and it stuck ever since.
Man Utd News 24/7
Well.. Let’s hope he scores a chunck of goals at Wigan. All the best lad!
Glad that he will get regular playing time but as you say Scott I think it leaves us a little light in central midfield. It isn’t a problem now, but it may be a bit later in the season when the games and injuries pile up. I was hoping that I’d seen the last of John O’Shea in midfield…
This is a very good move for him in my opinion. Wigan play nice football, and this will benefit him enormously. See you back at United next season Tom.
I got to say, if he were to be a REAL part of our future, he wouldn’t have gone out on loan again.
The more they go out on Loan, Welbeck, Diouf and Cleverly seem to be more of an investment (moneywise) than a promise for our future.
I think Fergie has let him go on loan so he came name Hargreaves in the 25 man squad. Let him come back to prove himself and earn a new contract.
I’m gutted to see him go; I was really looking forward to seeing him get some serious game time; I think he’s got a style of play that’s a bit different to the other players and I was hoping he would be used as a secret weapon in games where we were stuck and getting nowhere; I just hope he uses his chance at Wigan to take a few points off our competitors; Good luck Tom – and come back in one piece!
Strongly disagree Scott. If Wilshire is viewed as good enough to play for Arsenal why isn’t Cleverly good enough to be in the United squad? I can’t see what he will learn at Wigan, struggling for mid table, that he wouldn’t learn at United as part of the squad. Darren Fletcher didn’t need to go on loan to progress as a player so why does Tom Cleverly?
I’m sorry but you’re going to learn more with the likes of Giggs and Scholes than anywhere else. I saw Paul Ince speaking about the influence Cantona had on him, even as a mature player, not to mention the younger players the way he ironed out flaws in his game and motivated others to do the same. All our youngsters have spoken about how just training alongside the professionalism of Giggs and Scholes inspires them to improve is that example going to exist elsewhere?
Cleverly would’ve been more than good enough to get games in the cups and against the lesser lights. His arguably already better than Gibson IMHO and I think we’re missing a trick here. What happens now if Anderson doesn’t pull his socks up and Carrick doesn’t grow into a big game player? Are we expecting Fletcher and Scholes, at his age, to play 60 games this year? Or maybe we’ll put Park on human growth hormone and hope he bulks up enough not to get bullied around by the likes of Muamba and Cattermole if we play him at centre mid.
Really don’t get this one.
Gone. Hope he does well. I am sure he will get games.
Liverpool sign bent
http://www.boxofficefootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/liverpool-sign-bent.jpg
@Devil310
I don’t think that Cleverly will be sold if he plays well for Wigan and they want to sign him permanently because i think that SAF recognises that he is a genuinely good talent who can play across the midfield. However i think that Welbeck is in danger of becoming the next Fraizer Campbell
I understand why we would send out Diouf and Welbeck, since we have so many strikers. But even with the likes of Owen, Rooney, Berba and Chicharito SAF believed enough on Kiko to keep him in the squad….so why not Cleverly???
Your Hargreaves argument is a good one, and possibly the reason behind it. But, we all know that Hargreaves will not play a strong part (if any) from here to January.
I still feel Diouf and Welbeck, as well as Cleverly, are not being considered as part of “our future” with this move.
Don’t understand this. The lad must be gutted with another season on loan and I hope he doesn’t get so pissed off with this that he ends up being sold at the end of the season. I have lost count of the number of comments here and on other sites that we are short of an AMP and we let someone who fits the bill go on loan. Just read that Spurs look to be signing van der Vaart for around £8m and we sign an unknown ie Bebe for just short of that – and don’t forget that is pure profit for Bebe’s club as they signed him for nothing not long ago (and how many games will he play in the first team this season). Ozil for £12M and things don’t quite add up. SAF has faith in our squad but I still don’t think its good enough to win many trophies this season especially the Champions League. I know many will get on my back for not showing faith but I want United to win everything every year (and I saw my first game in 1966) and hope we get number 19 this year.
And don’t forget SAF said Cleverley was not going on loan and that he was bringing through the youngsters.
I would have given Tom a chance instead of park any day of the week. Gutted we have missed out on van der vaart at 8 million great value for money.
Scott: “Whilst I believe he had something to offer our lightweight midfield”
Errr, correct me if I’m wrong but Tom Cleverley doesn’t look like a “heavyweight” and doesn’t seem to play a strong defensive game so I don’t get what you’re getting at. As well, in terms of numbers the UTD midfield is well stocked – the big problem is that most of the guys are “nearly” players. Only Darren Fletcherinho is a dead-cert – even Paul Scholes isn’t a lock for big games any more and, without a doubt, the GingerNinja’s playing time is going to be closely monitored so that in the winter/spring when the games come with greater frequency Scholes won’t be as “reliable” as he was in the past. The big thing that obstructed Tom Cleverley’s progress-through-the-ranks is the evidence that Paul Scholes has lost so little from his game that Cleverley can’t win playing time from him. In this circumstance, it’s best for the kid’s progress for him to get the chance to play regularly for an EPL outfit – albeit one that is rinky-dink and very inconsistent.
pjch @ 20:58: ” Just read that Spurs look to be signing van der Vaart for around £8m and we sign an unknown ie Bebe for just short of that – and don’t forget that is pure profit for Bebe’s club as they signed him for nothing not long ago (and how many games will he play in the first team this season).”
Let’s see if I understand what you’re on about: van der Vaart is 27/28, he gets paid more than 100,000 per week and he’s not beter than Paul Scholes and wouldn’t take playing time away from the GingerNinja. The same argument was relevant in considering Joe Cole (remember him ?). Now, about Bebe – he’s 20, big, fast, strong and raw. He probably cost an upfront payment of two million and gets 20 or 25 thousand a week. If he’s the real deal – and it’s a HUGE IF – then he’s a fantastic bargain; if not, he will be flogged for just about what was paid for his signature. So, the upshot of this is that rather than paying very large wages for a back up (i.e,, van der Vaart) whose value will only decline over the term of his contract, UTD have taken a gamble – a flutter, if you will – on an unknown Portuguese kid. Where’s the harm ? look at the up-side potential and trust that SAF (and his scouts) know what they’re doing.
he was sent out on loan because of the way scholes has been playing so far. no one not even SAF envisioned the midfielder would be playing as good as he is at the start of the season. scholes performances means he ill start most games and with fletcher our only defensive mid. chances would be limited for cleverly to gain experience. hence smart move by SAF in the long run.
He’s getting Premiership football, that’s the difference this time around and he’s been loaned out to a team who likes to play football. If he was loaned out to a Championship club again, then I wouldn’t be too happy. That’s why I feel this is a good move for him, if he does well at this level then he will be back at United.
I think we can kiss goodbye to Cleverley.
He will be sold within 2 years.
Out of the current homegrown first team players there are two groups:
Never Loaned:
Gary Neville
Wes Brown
Paul Scholes
Darren Fletcher
Ryan Giggs
Loaned Out:
Gibson
O’Shea
Evans
I’d argue that those 3 aren’t established first team players, whereas the others are.
Evans was 18 when sent on loan
Gibson was 19
O’Shea was 19.
Tom is now 21 and going out on loan
I think that says a lot about where we can see him in a few years.
Hi all
Anybody wants some fun or has some spare time to chip in read this – as you can see I am MG58
This is the stuff we face – stay United – This club means the world to me
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sunderland-pip-city-with-late-winner-after-tevez-howler-2065411.html#comment-73566292
Jonny
Very harsh
He’s going for a reason – Paul Scholes
Another reason is that he needs his schooling in the deep end – look at the choice of clubs – Wigan
When such decisions are made they are made for technical reasons too – maybe Sir Alex needs to adapt or further that part of his game in order for him to become a United player
Have faith – the gaffer just said a few weeks ago that the boy is going to be something
I hope he gets first team football, and doesn’t end up like Rossi at Newcastle, hardly playing any games. We really need Carrick and Anderson to find their form, because Fletch and Scholes can’t do it every week.
Just to clarify, what I mean is that Evans, Gibbo and O’Shea aren’t in the first 11 week in week out, whereas the majority of the other 5 are.
@MG
We don’t need to fight any kind of propoganda war, the truth is obvious to everyone
@Jonny
Beckham was sent on loan to Preston ( a division one side) when he was nineteen and nearly twenty, he turned out all right for us
Good luck to Clev. Hopefully he will get plenty of games this season and actually inspire that lot not to concede 5 or 6 every second game.
@MG
Do you honestly think that 36 year old Paul Scholes is going to play every match this season?
Of course not, and someone has to play in his absence. Clearly Cleverley is not classed as being good enough to perform
I’d also argue that 5-10 games for united would be more valuable experience than 20 for wigan
@faddy
im not saying that saying a player out on loan means anything definite
but he is getting a bit old for it and there is a definitely correlation between players being loaned out and players then sold on
it is good business sense, a player who has been playing in the premiership is going to be more valuable than one playing in the reserves and carling cup
@Jonny
Yeah obviously that makes sense but i would personally bereally surprised if we sold Cleverly if he has a good season at Wigan because i think that SAF has realised that he could be fantastic for us because he can play across the midfield
@faddy
could be right there
i think he would make a great long term replacement for park, who seems to be able to play anywhere and perform well every time
i dont see him ever becoming a scholes or giggs though now
k so these are the loan deals..welbeck-suderland, diouf-blackburn,tom-wigan..is macheda staying??heard there’s a rumour of him going to burnley…
looks like its gonna be next year when fergie’s fledgelings-2 come together..the future looks exciting..hope all of them do well on their loan spells..this spell could make or break their utd career..
Unless there was a new mf being bought, i didnt see why saf would change hs mind and let tc go on loan. Nw tht the deadline has closed n no1 brought it ths doesnt make any sense… Unless afta the weekends comments abt nani being beta on the right has prompted saf to move valencia more central… Just dnt see any other logic atm
Denton Davey is spot on with both his comments
ghtt.
Funny one certainly caught me.
@Jonny
With all due respect to Park, I really hope Cleverly turns out to be a better player than him. Agreed that he’s never realistically going to be better than Giggs or Scholes but i can always hope.
I think this is a great move for Tom AND United. We all are painfully aware that Paul can’t keep going at this level, and he has hinted himself at being near the end of his time. So, if hypothetically Paul hangs it up after this season, then next season we can bring in Tom who will have a year of playing regularly in the Prem instead of Tom playing once a month in Carling Cup matches, or johnny foreigner from the french/dutch/italian/wherever the fuck league with no prem experience.
This can also be a last chance saloon for Ando and Gibson. They can get mins when and if Fletch/Paul/Carrick/Giggs arent involved and they can get their chance to step up, while SAF and the coaches can monitor Tom’s performances and see how he does. Then, next year they can have a more informed decision on who can step up and relied upon for us.
I don’t subscribe to the idea that Cleverley will be gone in 2 years, Sir Alex probably wants to see how he adopts to the premiership, good luck lad.
Good view johnny, only u know ,I also think sir alex not seen Tom to replace Paul because Tom s cross are fantastic whatever right or left ,too waste to put him in middle at this moment,we had Tony nani giggs park and oberten five fight for two places,so tom to wigan are good for both united and him,he’s very talented will see him replace park or giggs for future ,and park will much become a dm or second striker,come on our united iniesta !,,,,,,,,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/30/carlos-queiroz-portugal-coach-ban
Oh dear, naughty Carlos.
hi i read an article this morning that cleverly went to sir alex and asked for a loan deal because he wants playing time to improve don’t know if thats true but its makes sense to me if he stays won’t get a ton of playing time at wigan good chance to start every week
That sounds right, maybe why SAF changed his mind.
@ Jonny
Nah men, that’s MG’s view, far from propaganda, he has a point, but i feel, Tom would have served us better here.
Here are some headlines from the Guardian website, in chronological order:
City beat Chelsea to sign £32.5m Robinho
Robinho only interested in City’s money, claims Chelsea’s Deco
Robinho was worried about joining City, admits Hughes
Robinho parts company with agent who negotiated City move
Robinho hits out at City’s small-time mentality
I am happy at Manchester City, says Robinho
Robinho’s City future in doubt after walkout
Will Robinho still be at Man City next season?
No chance of Robinho deserting City, says Hughes
Should Robinho be first out the door at Man City?
Robinho is staying at Manchester City, says Hughes
Hughes considers leaving out Robinho
Robinho: I’ll stay at Manchester City ‘for a long time to come’
Robinho rejects Santos rumours and praises ‘wonderful’ City fans
Robinho admits interest from Barcelona makes him happy
Robinho is not leaving Manchester City, Mark Hughes insists
Robinho heading for the exit as Manchester City dream sours
Robinho says he will stay ‘five years, 10 years’ at Manchester City
Robinho should stay at Manchester City, says Roberto Mancini
Robinho wants to go home to Santos after dismal time at Manchester City
Robinho questions Roberto Mancini’s managerial ability
Robinho not interested in returning to Manchester City
Robinho agrees permanent Milan move
THIS IS HOW IT FEELS TO BE CITY
MG58
You’ve really hit a raw nerve with those Citeh fans; keep up the good work!
Jonny
I don’t know much about you but those that know me on here know I do not bullshit I don’t do no future talk and propaganda?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt – never ever talk to a Manchester United supporter about being bullshit enough to spout propaganda
You or me are not the manager of Manchester United football club – the manager of United can do as he sees fit
Who am I or you or anyone to question that?
Next time just take it easy on the bite – that’s not the way I talk to everyone on here – that’s not the way I like being talked to – and certainly I assume that you don’t want to be talked to with any thing less than mutual respect
As for Paul Scholes he can play for as long as he wants for as many matches as he wants
He is Paul Scholes and like Giggs and Neville they are the cream of the club and the ambassadors for it.
Form is temporary class is permanent
They have it – other’s half their age do not even get close
@MG
well im glad you are so passionate, but you have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick
what i mean is we dont need to go and argue with city fans on the independent website because everyone can see how they are going about trying to achieve success
@mg
I’m glad you are so passionate, but you have got the wrong end of the stick.
what i mean is we dont need to argue with city fans and fight a propoganda war to make sure everyone knows how good united are, because everyone can see how they are going about achieving success
give em enough rope is my philosophy
I think you are not looking at the bigger picture guys. Maybe it isn’t just about playing for united… Look at his england career. Correct me if I’m wrong but pierce likes players that are playing regular football. Maybe Tom is thinking he still wants to be part of the england set up as much as he has been recently and instead of playing little for united and maybe then losing out on england U21 he could go to play for wigan and carry on his regular place in the 21′s. If your a footballer then I’m guessing you want to play football….?? Maybe he’s thought about this and asked to go play elsewhere??
Jonny
my pen or fingers do not even break a sweat when I write
I can clearly tell when I’m up against a thick brick wall that I am not going to bring it down
I write for fun – I express myself for fun – this is what I do for a living – write – it makes my job easy when I’m taking anyone on because I can afford myself the time and space to go for it and with it –
I don’t care about city or for that matter anyone else apart from United – the independent thing is a long running feud between myself and Guv the so called city fan
I do not need to trump United – fortunately for me my club does that – and I would agree on that
Inception is my philosophy
An idea is like a parasite – give them one that they are better than us and let them live in there so called fantasy world
In the real world United rule
I wonder if Sir Alex held off on Cleverly’s loan deal deliberately. We had Wigan over a barrel on deadline day, so may have been able to insist on playing time for Tom. Perhaps a “Pay as you don’t Play” Policy? Cleverly is good enough to play (and learn) in our first team, so if no suitable deal materialized he would have continued his apprenticeship here.
MG – always a pleasure to read your stuff. It feels like you’re enjoying yourself writing, so I’m glad it’s true.
Anyway, to the topic in hand. I think it’s a big mistake to let Cleverley go. The Beckham comparison doesn’t apply as he only went to Preston for a short period and not a whole season. I would have liked to see Tom gradually being fed into the first team and get to learn the United way. He’s had a year at Watford, now a year at Wigan. When’s he going to be schooled in the Scholes/ Neville/ Giggs ethos?
Cleverley shud neva go on loan for d likes of carrick,gibson,park n even o’shea{shud go on loan or b sold}at right-back.Dis players r no where better than d lad honestly,a very excitin indeed CLEVER lad.Reminds me of Becks,got gud vision an inteligent passer of d ball,got guts n composed.D way he scores nither carrick nor park cud ever attempt such.I LUV d lad,wll miss him he’s our FUTURE.Best wishes Tom,God bless Man.United!
@ denton davey at 21:06
you said it best.
@ MG, I agree with Jonny, no point in arguing with the deluded citeh fans. Not like they came to make a point in our territory, ROM for instance.
@ Jonny, i like your philosopy.
As for Tom Cleverly, this would be the last chapter in his learning curve to be the next homegrown star at Man United, where dreams come true.
With Ando, Carrick and Gibbo, I suppose we have enough cover.
Plus, Park -the 3 lungs Man- can play at the central, he did decent for his nation in the world cup.
And who knows what’s in fergie’s mind for Tony V. He might be tried out for the CAM role, now that Nani is pushing for that RW position more than ever.
Well, I trust the gaffer’s decision on this one.
I think its a good move. Cleverly needs playing time at Premiership level to develop. I think its easier for strikers to come on from the bench and make an impact. Midfielders need more involvement. Look how hard its been for Anderson to build on a few successful appearances and establish himself in the team. Fletcher didn’t have it easy either.
Hopefully he’ll be a star at Wigan and he”ll come back to us next season like a new signing.
I raised this earlier but a big factor in who goes on loan and who gets another season at OT amongst our fringe players is the length and terms of their contracts. For me, Fergie is definately doing a Beckham with Cleverly (i.e. he knows he wants to keep him and expects that he’ll come back and win a new contract in at the end of his next full year at OT) whereas I believe Gibson has one more year to break into the first team proper or he’s gone. (i.e. If he has less than 2 years on his contract you don’t want to send him out on loan.)
Does anyone know what the contract situation is for each of our MF?
@ MG
MG is in tha house !!! Love your posts, as always. United make me very happy, If i could write half as good as you, i’d be happier
I don’t think it is a good decision to let a very good midfielder go on loan without adding one. Midfield is our weak position and yet we let quality player like Tom go.
On another note: did anybody notice how Danny W. has completely changed the flow of Sunderland – Shitty game when replaced injured Campbell? His movement was superb and that expensive and overrated shitty defense couldn’t cope with him..
It is a pity that he is loaned out for the whole season, rather than 6 months
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOnoqBsrOjY
This means that Fergie must feel Anderson is close to recovery. Though he can probably play an attacking midfield, our system is better suited for using Cleverley at his customary position; i.e. out wide. Given our wide roles are filled by Nani, Valencia, Giggs, Park, and Obertan, I can see why Cleverley is being loaned out. At best, assuming there are no season-long injuries to that group, he would get some CC run outs. In central mid, he’s definitely not going to replace Fletcher and Scholes, and despite what they’ve done lately, Carrick and Anderson *should* be a better fit in our current system. Through in Gibson and O’Shea and we have a fairly full midfield.
Fergie has spoken too highly of Cleverley for him to have no future here – certainly not to let him go without getting a proper chance to fail. I see this as a good move that should work out for both sides as long as we don’t get a major injury to a midfielder or three.
I cant see how this is a bad thing at all. He has zero premiership experience and it will do him good. The loan will have no bearing on whether he is good enough for us but it can only help him. Didnt see him getting much gametime between now and christmas for us.
@Jonny
You missed out one name on that list. David Beckham- loaned to Preston when he was all of twenty.
Have faith mate.
SAF must feel that playing a handful of games for us isnt what he needs and Wigan in the PL is a step up from Watford, so he either makes it in terms of playing style and character and we get a good player or he doesn’t and he is sold on, it happens so many times.
It was reported years later that Becks was gutted when he was loaned to Preston as he thought he was never going to make it but you look at his career where has suffered numerous knock backs only to keep coming back, was that strength of character brought out with the loan to PNE? If Cleverly is good enough he will make it, good luck to the kid, I might even go along if MU aren’t playing to see how he does.
Great writtimg skills you got there MG.
On topic, loaning cleverly out can only be good for us and him, as it has been p’ted out earlier, he has no PL experience, and moreover, realistically wouldn’t get much playing time even should both scholes and fletcher get injured, as carrick(who is still at d club) and any of ando, giggs, gibson, park, even throw in oshea(given d special place he has in Sir Alex’s heart). Not forgetting that hargo’s still in SAF’s plans as it seems. So now mates, do you really think, with all these guys still in the squad & non headed out prior to d close of d window, that the very Clever Tom would have gained much more kept here than playing more regular football at an EPL club? You be the judge to that.
For me i trust Sir alex’s decision on this and dont think there is any question of a propaganda…
BIG MISTAKE….
A report on MEN that there’s an option of a january call back. I guess that puts to rest to any suggestion of a propaganda, as it highlights the managers value in the lad should situation a crisis across the mid-field arise.
So i say, go on son, and get those games under you belt…
@SirAlex’sSon – it is a wise move. i think it is a must in this cases.
unbelievable. we needed another midfielder to SIGN, not to SELL.
battle for 4th…
‘It’s a delicate situation because we are not in the Champions League, but it is still the biggest club in England and to play at Anfield every week is a privilege. That’s how I see it. I like to have targets, and to be able to help bring Liverpool back where they deserve is a beautiful target.”
- Fernando Torres obviously drunk on delusion.
@ giornalista
I think you might have gotten lost in the complex world of the interwebz. Don’t worry, here’s the messageboard you were trying to post on:
http://tinyurl.com/b5t8lz
@giornalista
Theres something to be said about not rocking the boat. All the smaller teams have signed players and of course their fans are very happy, but these players will take time to jell and these teams will lose points because of it. I feel our strength is in team ethic, style of play and familiarity. If it isn’t broke don’t fix it. It was nice speculation to be linked with Rodwell as I thought he could have bridged the gap between defence and midfield. We have Scholes playing more in that role and it seems for the most part that with Scholes, Fletcher in midfield with Rooney, Valencia and Park (Giggs or Nani) tackling back we don’t really have to invest in a one dimensional type of player earmarked as solely a defensive midfielder. Hargreaves has never been that player anyway. Sure he takes responsibility with those duties in midfield but he was also one who pushed forward and wandered out to the wings.
Don’t be concerned about the lack of signings mate all is well at OT and Im glad there wern’t any panic purchases.
Have to admit I am worried.
United’s midfield came up short last year. At times they were dominated by teams such as Everton and Fulham. Yet I would argue that the midfield has went backwards since last year, Scholes and Giggs are a year older, while they are obviously amazing, they will be slower and not be able to play as much.
Anderson (as reported in ROM) still has this blasie attitude to football, no effort and not reaching his potential.
Less than a month ago, Ferguson said that we needed cleverly as we need goals from midfield, watching Tom in the match against City’s elite superdooper justices league development squad avengers, he was our stand out player.
In the middle of the park United have not strengthened and if you don’t move forward in football you move back.
Seriously concerned Red.
incredible decision scholes must be going to play every game .Now fergie helps brum sign hleb what about getting players for our own team.ozil 12 mil vandervart 8 mill no value there then 7.5 mill for a duff player from portugal that nobody has seen play or heard of great value there then.Isuppose we will play fucking gibson or oshea in midfield when injuries come. QUALITY.
@doncobaino
Why do you feel the midfield is weaker than last year and as for being dominated that could be deemed a little far fetched. There were games we lost and in those games naturally you look to be playing under par, maybe thats all it was. If you consider the Chelsea games (that we lost arguably by shitty decisions) we dominated their so called power house of a midfield. I say the games against Eveton and Fulham were just bad days at the office. Both teams at the team were on a run.
As for your opinion that Giggs and Scholes are 1 year older as your reasoning explained you failed to mention that Gibson, Nani, Valencia and Anderson are the same, 1 year older and 1 year wiser. That in itself can be considered as a new midfielders enthusiam brought in. Anderson seems to be getting over the childish attitude (except the car crash – awaiting developments on that one), Nani much the same, Park a year wiser, Gibson a year wiser and from the beginning of last season to the end of last season he showed massive improvement in possitional play. Valencia tackles back and tackles hard. I see no reason to worry. On top of all that all the players are upset with themselves and hungry to regain the title, last year i think was an air of complacency, lets make it 4 in a row attitude rather than lets win the league. Oh by the way its four in a row.
While I can understand the reasons behind TC going out on loan I have to admit to being dissapointed because I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do in a red shirt this season. Yes we have some ‘cover’ in midfield but you do have to wonder about the quality, TC (in my opinion) has already shown more than Gibson and I would go as far as to suggest that given the opportunity would be a lot more positive addition to the first team than Park…
@pritch the red
I think you answered your own question mate. What about Ozil, Van der Vaart they comanded 12mill and 8mill respectively. If other managers thought they were worth more they would have payed. As far as im concerned, Ozil is ok but far from the finnished article his attitude seems questionable at times as well. A hugely over rated player, there have been many over rated players after world cups and euro championships. Poborsky, Panchev…….. and my opinion he was one of them.
As for Van der Vaart if all madrid could get was 8 million then i guess thats all hes worth. Im sorry to tell you that United dont have mere 8million pound players in their squad. Bebe might have cost 7.5million but its been deemed he has the potential to be a Nani or perhaps even better. Van der Vaarts value will never increase as hes already reached his potential and lack the time to really improve his game. Is Van der Vaart good enough for United, no fucking chance.
@mig78
What alot of people either don’t know or choose to forget is Valencia is more often than nit employed in a CAM role for his country and plays it very well so even if we have a CM issue we have 3 wingers who can come inside without a problem. You have Park who can provide the energy and defensive side, Valencia who provides a more offensive side and the Giggs who can do a bit of both. All 3 could play centrally at the same time and that would still leave Obertan and Nani to take up the wings and you could employ Rafeal, Fabio or Evra as wingers as cover
So throw in Fletcher, Scholes, Carrick, Anderson and Gibson then we arent exactly light in that area of the team. And that’s ignore Hargreaves who could still make a comeback
We also have O’Shea who isn’t going to set the world alight as a CM but can do a job there.
@goat
The home game against Chelsea, we were dominated for 90 minutes, we barely had the ball. It was a disgraceful decision that cost us a valuable point however.
Everton away we were dominated. Liverpool away, Fulham away. all three games our midfield had bad days.
I am not impressed by Gibson. I have watched on numerous occassions the lad being caught in possession. he can strike a ball which is good but he ain’t the best tackler.
If Nani continues his great form he could be the big plus, but in terms of wingers im happy enough, park valencia nani are all good.
But you can’t expect a midfield starting with a 35 year old one week and a 36 the other to battle the entire season.
The jury is still out on Anderson, when he is good, he is very very good and the team benefits. Spurs away last year he was incred and I think Ferguson is hoping that the potential and talent he clearly has is used.
I just think keeping cleverley OR getting a new central midfielder was called for.
Who knows Hargreaves might come back!
I’m a seriously unconcerned red. results like Everton and Fulham last season are extremely unlikely this time around.We are massively stronger right now and any body who gets anything of us this term will have to work very hard.they wont get points this time because we are riven with injuries.we are one healthy squad.
I was looking forward to watching him play for us this season, i have never watched him play but was excited after reading rave reviews about his performance in pre season and when he was on loan at Watford. Hope he will return even a much better player and hopefully take over the mantle from Scholsey. Good luck to you Tom
@parryheid
Yes, results like the two you mentioned are unlikely this season. Hopefully because Vidic will stay healthy for most of the season. However, the same problems that we had in midfield last December at Fulham, resurfaced in last week’s game. Unless Anderson makes a strong comeback, I feel that our midfield is lacking on the defensive side of things.
What about last week at Fulham?
Same problems appeared.
Just read that Cleverly approached SAF about going on loan after stating he thought his chances at Utd this season would be limited and they both agreed it would be good for him. He says he has tried the 1st division and the championship, now he wants to try the Premier league week in, week out and then hopefully he can return to Utd in 12 months and test himself in the Champions league.
Fairplay to the lad he doesnt want to just sit and wait to prove himself, he is taking his future in his own hands and wants to show SAF he is ready to step up and take the next step. Good luck to him and I look forward to seeing what he can do this season, although I too would rather he stayed with us, you have to applaud the lad for wanting to better his reputation and show SAF he is the real deal.
United announce that season ticket sales have missed target of 54000 to reach 51800. Does that really achieve anything? Seems more like cutting off the nose to spite the face.
@Gee. Very true mate, Tom should definitely be congratulated for wanting to go out and proove himself rather than warm the bench, I really hope that he gets plenty of game time then comes back to United ready to start in our first eleven next season.
@Costas. You’re right about the Fulham game, our midfield was exposed again and I’m afraid to say I can see that being the story of the season against the ‘bigger’ teams. For me our midfield has been the weakest part of the squad (in terms of quality, not numbers) for sometime now and have been held up by our outstanding defence and forwards, god only help us if Scholesy gets injured!
D day for the 25 man squad, we’ll see soon enough if Hargo has a future at United.
@ Johnny
Evans etc… going on loan at 19 and Cleverly being 21, Becks was 20,21 when he went on loan to Preston mate!!
Best of luck to the lad!
@badger
The best solution I see for these games, is to play with 3 midfielders. And we might have done that at Fulham had Rooney been fit. Playing 4-5-1 with Berba as the main striker is not always effective. My main concern has always been, who (other than Fletch) will stick his foot in. Probably Anderson and as I said above, I hope he comes back refocused.
I am really concerned that we’ve sent Cleverly out. Not necessarily due to him being the missing piece in this seasons title challenge but him providing another body in the midfield. If Hargy and Ando dont return to form or at all, we’re bloody light on……
Here are my extended views if anyone cares.
http://olliewilliefc.tumblr.com/post/1046971694/have-manchester-united-taken-a-huge-risk-by-not-adding
Fulham have been very consistent for some time now, at home definately and against them we had a few players under perform namely Tony V was not brought into the game much Fletch appeared to be covering to big an area and was’nt as effective as normal Big John did’nt have a good game but I wont have it that he is bad.He give’s solid reliable performances most of the time he’s called on and we cant have a team that is all froth we need the guys like Sheasy to provide the body and all things considered it was only a well saved penalty that stopped us doing cartwheels.
@Costas: 4-5-1 with Bebra up front?? That was the Ewood Park game from last season wasn’t it? Huff and Puff and absolutely nothing from that one.
I don’t see why Cleverley needs one more year of ‘learning’ while Macheda had his commentator-orgasm moment when he was… what 18? Kids these days I tell you, they grow up fast!
I remember an Anderson back in 2007, December I think it was, who marked the ‘best midfielder in England’ out of the game, and dominated a Liverpool midfield like it had never been before at Anfield. We can only hope his evil doppelganger finally leaves the real Anderson to pick off from where he started, as a real Manchester United player.
Parryheid- I won’t have it that Evans is bad. put it his way, two clean sheets in last three games and against Chelsea up until he was moved out to the left back, vidic and evans were cruising….
@Costas
The 4-5-1 worked wonderfully for us last season but given Berba’s form, how do you leave him out of the starting 11? I think Fergie will stick with the 4-4-2 at least in the first half and revert to the 4-5-1 if things don’t go too well.
doncobaino.
Neither would I top man as far as I’m concerned.When I said Big John Iwas talking about O’shea. apologies if you thought I was.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/01/manchester-united-season-tickets-gill
Target:54000
Sold:51800
Difference:2200
2200 x Lets say £700 for an average season ticket = £1.54m
not a bad start, but nowhere near a problem for the glazers
am i right accountancy fans?
You leave Berba out because he can’t play the lone striker, Wayne can, simples. Berba isn’t mobile enough to be up front on his own, he performs better with someone beside him.
dela @ 12:23: It seems obvious that SAF really, really, really wants Dimitar Berbatov to succeed. The guy is being given every opportunity and even though I am a BerbaSceptic, I would be thrilled to see Dimmy seize those opportunities. My scepticism about Dimitar Berbatov relates to his ability to bring the best out of WayneRooney by complementing his game. If that partnership can come up trumps – after two-plus years of tinkering – then UTD (and us) will be the winner and the wait will be worth it. But IF the partnership is a dud in the forthcoming big games – not matches against West Ham or Newcastle at OT ! – then I figure that Chicharito or KikoTheKid will get the chance to impress the boss. What has perplexed me so far this season has been the abandonment of the 4-3-3 (with Nani and Valencia providing width/service) – this may be explicable solely in terms of WayneRooney’s uncertain fitness and we’ll find out more about that in the match against Everton at Goodison Park. But, as I have written before, I am confused about how SAF is deploying Dimitar Berbatov – and wonder if the deployment has had anything to do with Dimmy’s sterling performances so far this season.
I’m also amused by the comparisons – implicit and in some cases explicit – between Tom Cleverley and Anderson. These guys are just about the same age and one is a Brazilian international player (who has had an unfortunate time with injuries and some youthful indiscretions/inconsistencies) while Tom Cleverley was a loanee at Watford. Really, this comparison is like the proverbial apples-and-oranges. Look at the comparison again in this way – what’s the very best up-side for each guy ? Anderson can be an international superstar while Tom Cleverley will be someone like James Milner – an English lad and a trier but not an international superstar (not even a Cesc Fabregas who, let’s not forget is second-choice for the WC winners. A dose of realism sometimes helps, eh ?
Goat – Spot on fella.
What is this obsession with “cam” s and defensive midfielders and all that bollocks? Back in the day it was just midfield and each player worked hard. Nani and Pasrk also drop inside. Far too much obession now with CAMS and DM’s.
doncobaino – Dominated at home to the Chav’s? We hammered them second half pal.
@King Eric
Tactics have developed over the last 20 years
I’d highly recommend the website zonalmarking.net and Jonathan Wilsons “The Question” column in the Guardian if you haven’t seen them already
BREAKING NEWS Oldham confirm on their website Rio plays for our Reserves tonight in Manchester Senior Cup. Wes, Macheda and Anderson also included
@dela
That’s the dilemma and of course I am happy with Berba’s form so far. But, in form players get sacrificed all the time in order to accomodate a particular tactic. We will see. Scholes won’t always start, so it will be interesting to see how the other midfield combinations hold up defensively while we are playing 4-4-2.
GHTT – Good news the best CH in Europe is nearing a return, not before time either.
One other thing – who made the best move of the transfer window ?
UTD – Chicharito for ten million or ?????
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/442332259?-11193
Sir Alex laying down the law on Bebe lol.
Willieredmate
1/ FAntastic news about Rio Ando and the fact that Ive beer in the fridge and a free tv when the match is on
2/id be shocked if sir alex made him get his hair cut with andersons locks swinging around and I didnt think Bebe had any English
and most importantly
3/ Jesse Jane Rules
@King Eric
Agree with you, a modern midfield is fluid. You cant say a team is set up 4-4-2 (with one defensive midfielder and one attacking midfielder and wingers. Because british players are learning from their forreign counterparts that if you drag the defensive midfielder away then a gap appears between defence and midfield. Vunerable to counter attack. That to my oppinion is why Liverpool got rid of Mascherano (i dont care about Liverpool but they didnt seem too bothered).
Ive also read on here that if Hargreaves doesn’t make it then Cleverly shouldn’t have gone out on loan. One minute they say we need a DM because Hargos injured then they say Cleverly shouldnt of gone out on loan. Is Cleverly a DM????? If not then in their rigid ideas of the roles of a midfielder then the decision on Cleverly shouldn’t have any bearing on Hargos fitness or not.
It also played no part on the squad of 25 players as he is 21 years old, turned 21 on august the 12th which counts as this season. So Cleverley counted as a 21 year old and your allowed as many as you like of them in your squad.
I think Cleverleys loan will do him good and with that degenerate wanker Scharner out of the squad the boy has a chance to shine and not have to listen to a fuckwitt like him giving advice.
As for the midfield issue, I prefer United way of playing with talented footballers that all have the ability to tackle (ability or just wishing they had ability is open to discussion but Verons they aren’t), can pass under pressure, make space, can run, comfortable with either foot (valencia debateable) and have a decent shot. I suppose the downside is that they have to be well drilled for eventuallities as they are all floating midfielders but by the same token there isn’t any complacency that there would be with fixed possitions. If you look at Chelsea and Liverpool Gerrard and Lampard often dont tackle back as quickly as they should as they know (assume) Mascherano and Essien are in possition. If theyve been drug away from the play then they leave huge gaps. To crack Uniteds midfield you need to play against us with two talented wingers that come inside and drag our boys apart from the action, that was seen by that Aurelio (one of the spaniards) at Liverpool, essien playing to the right or malouda. With Fulham it was the reversal of Murphy and Etuhu that made the difference with us.
crap the game isnt on mutv tonight
i read a article about rio being in the squad against oldham tonight… and it says bebe isnt included in the squad and he didnt even make the bench… this dumb idiots dont do their research do they??? bebe is in portugal getting ready to play against england u-21 we hope!!!!
first time we can see him in action maybe?? going to be huge.
specially with cleverly in there and bebe will be attacking against smalling!!
gna be a good match to watch for us reds
It will be interesting to see how he will do in the Premiership…seems to have great talent
I think Berba and Nani will be the “surprise of the season” based on the last few games + Rooney seems to be closer to his old self
p.s in the article they wrote it like they were saying he was shit and he cudnt even make the bench if that wasnt clear enough in my previous post!
@denton davey
I haven’t seen enough of Cleverley to form an opinion but if Fergie is talking so much about him, he can’t be all that bad, can he? Yes, he may not be the next Scholes but if he’s even half as good, the lad deserves a chance. I am hoping his loan move is a sign that the gaffer believes Hargo might get that blighted tendon of his fixed in the next four months.
@Costas
It might all come down to how well Ando plays tonight for the reserves. If he’s anywhere near the form he showed in his first season, the gaffer will probably play him alongside Scholesy/Carrick and Fletch in a 3-man midfield. That would be a heart-break for Berba though.
obertanthenewstar
link?
Link for portugal vs eng u21.
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=85626&part=sports
@GoatinaUnitedShirt
Well said…
I have to concur with Jonny, footballs moved on, that’s why fans bang on about AM and HM. Tactics and formations are more important now, than they ever were. I thought as Denton Davey, that United would deploy a 433/451 system this season, it seemed to work very well last year, but the downside is what to do with Berba. The guys in great form atm, though it’s a nice headache for the boss to have.
that portugal vs england u-21 is on friday btw not today….
If Sir Alex thinks he’s gonna develop better on loan, that’s good enough for me. I’ve never seen him play, personally, but I’ve only heard good things.
Jonny – Cheers mate.
gotta hate – Is the reserve game on tonight? What channel. Didn’t think it was on mutv.
I’ve read some bizarre comments on here the last few days. Shame we didn’t get Van Der Vaart but we werent offered him for 8 million. If we were interested we would have had to pay at least double that. Anyone who thinks he’s past it or is rubbish really needs to get their head out their arse. There’s a lot of talented players that don’t play for United. Funny to see nobody whining about Raul Meirales anymore as he was the replacement after Ozilgate, is it because he’s gone to the dippers by any chance
. Glad about that didn’t want him.
Now onto Cleverly, fair play to him for wanting to play football but at Wigan? He’s not going to learn much there, he’s played for one cannon fodder team and now another one. If he was that good Fergie would have kept him, he’s played the “evil” Darren Gibson at a younger age and Anderson. Neither of those seem to have delighted the masses on ROM and the world beyond that. However Cleverly being labelled the English Iniesta is laughable. I can’t stand l’arsenal but Wilshire is getting more praise at a younger age being touted for the Ingurland squad whilst Cleverly has only just made his first start for the mighty Under 21s where such prodigies like Ben Thatcher, Michael Dubbery, Nigel Reo-Coker and Jermaine Pennat have all gone to the dizzying heights of mid-table mediocrity. In a nut shell the faith bestowed him is blind I see more Chris Eagles than I do Iniesta. I think he’ll be gone within 2 years. Now onto International week WOO HOO!
dela @ 14:18: “I haven’t seen enough of Cleverley to form an opinion but if Fergie is talking so much about him, he can’t be all that bad, can he?”
I’d have to disagree with that because SAF talks a lot of hot air – some of the time. His interviews are rarely given “freely”; they are a nuisance and he often just blathers on and sometimes, when he’s really bored and/or pissed, he lapses into his GovanJargon.
This is probably the only disappointment I have felt this pre season. I was a fan of not making signings and let the team develop their chemistry without upsetting the balance, but I felt we had a need for an energetic, creative, goal scorer on our left flank (really don’t fancy Nani there, i like him on the right). Ah well, I hope he gets a permanent slot for Wigan so he can impress a la Joe Hart.
king eric
its not on tele,mutv has highlights at half 5 tomorrow
Would have liked to see Tom stay. Having someone who can offer energy and an attacking threat from the middle, as well as being versatile, in our 25 man squad would have been great but seeing as it was his wish to move then fair enough, you’ve got to give respect to the lad for wanting to prove himself in the Prem first. Bolton would have suited him better, with Coyle in charge he would have given him plenty of games like he did with Wilshere, with Martinez we’ll have to see how he’ll use him. Also early to say this but Wigan are looking exteremly likely to get relegated this season, unlike Bolton who are looking solid atm. Hope they get their act together, the last thing we want is to see is Cleverley being affected by the team’s dismal efforts and mentality.
Looks like VDV is set to pen a 4 year contract at Spurs, at 8 million that is a great signing.
Where are people getting the impression that Cleverley is a central midfielder. He is a winger in a 4-4-2 and plays an advanced central role in the 4-5-1 formation. Positionally, he is like Ji Sung Park, not Paul Scholes. To everyone who seems to think that every player is a Paul Scholes replacement (Ozil being one was particularly funny), Scholes cannot be replaced, he is unique.
gotta hate – Cheers mate.
Busby – Bang on, I thought it strange that folk assumed Tom was a Central midfielder. As for replacing Scholes, again spot on. You can never replace these players like we couldn’t Charlton, Robbo (Keane to an extent) , Keano, Eric, Ronnie etc. We simply adapt.
Notorious – Hello mate. Have to disagree. Tom isn’t an Eagles, he is different gravy. In my opinion he won’t be gone from United in 2 years. We shall see. A top quality player. What has Wilshire done? I find him HUGELY over rated. He is only banged on about because he plays for fucking Arsenal. Rodwell, Tom and Lansbury are the stars of the under 21′s. Wilshire good on ball but thats it.
Ok, so the 24 man squad has been announced. For name sake it is 25 but has to be 24. Not long before Hargreaves has another ‘setback’. Silly to let Cleverley go. Wont be long before he is sold either
Cleverley is an attacking midfielder who can play out wide. Very much like Park albeit Cleverley is the better goal scorer.
King Eric – Wasn’t Carrick Keane’s replacement? Only kidding. I would say Keane was Robson’s replacement, but you’re right, we always adopt.
Hargo in the final 25.
@NotoriousRedDevil, to quote you, “If he was that good Fergie would have kept him”
Fergie changed his mind about sending him on loan a while ago and decided to keep him, which tells me he has great faith in the lad and sees a lot of potential, but if we are to believe sources, it was primarily Cleverley’s wish to move to Wigan to get PL experience under his belt, not Fergie’s. I think he agreed to send him on loan because he wants to give Carrick and Anderson one last chance this season – we’ll see them given a lot of games so they can rediscover their best. I do believe Fergie’s main focus this season will be on those 2.
Hargo in the 25 man squad.
Yep confirmed by the official website. He was always going to be included as he wasn’t taking anyone’s place. I wonder if he’ll make the CL squad too.
Nothing big about Hargo being in the 25 man squad. We only have 24 players without him. SAF didnt have to make any difficult decisions there
willie- Haha beat you to it mate.
aig- Hi mate. Good to see you back. How’ve you been?
I’m willing to agree to disagree with a lot of people about Cleverly, although now MOTD will be more interesting what with Welbeck at Sunderland and now Tom at Wigan. Its just that he’s gone to probably the shittest team ever to have stayed in the Premier League as long as they have. They either win narrowly or get pummelled especially under Martinez. The only thing he’ll learn there is the rough and tumble of the Premier League. Training there isn’t going to be a benefit to him theres hardly any players there he’s going to learn from if it is about development. He would be better off playing 4 games up until the end of the year here than he would by playing 36 league games at Wigan.
@King Eric – 100% agree with you about Wilshire but he is the supposed “it” man at the moment. He did it by only playing a handfull of games at l’arse. The meda are loving it because for the first time since Ray Parlour l’arse have produced an Englishman that actually looks decent.
@FZE123 – Its probably Andersons last chance more so than Carrick. Expect Darren “evil” Gibson to play more games to the disappointment of many. The boss said Cleverly can play anywhere in midfield. To send him out for the entire season is bizarre especially minus recalls. We shall see. Would rather be proven wrong than right.
When Gibson becomes one of our most valuable players at the end of the season I will rub it in peoples faces both on here and the real world. If Cleverly does I expect the same courtesy.
theboogeyman – This time mate, I’ll get ya next time lol.
Hey AIG.
Well if Hargo is in the squad, hopefully that means that he will make his comeback at some point.
@ Costas – I swear you said the same thing last year lol.
@Costas
Hi mate. How are you??.
I hope he does really come back and for more than 30 seconds. The problem is every time you hear he will be back in a short while a few weeks later it is followed by the news he has had another setback. This has been happening for a long time now.Getting frustrating
@boogeyman
Hi mate. How are you?
I am in the USA but done with most of my traveling. Been to Disney World, New York and Niagara falls. Will be back in India next Thursday.
NotoriousRedDevil – Did you buy Blairs book? I know you’re a big fan lmao.
@Notorious
I did and as AIG said, he did come back for 30 seconds.
Don’t know. The fact that he is included in the squad must mean that there’s some hope…
@AIG
I am gppd thanks. Hope you enjoyed your trip. It is frustrating and right now I don’t take him into consideration when I am thinking about our midfield. But like I said, there has to be something that gives Fergie hope that Hargreaves might play again. Otherwise, I think he wouldn’t have included him. We didn’t complete a 25 man squad anyway, so what does it matter if it was 23 or 24?
The whole Hargreaves situation reminds me of when we had Saha, Smith, Ruud and Rooney. All the potential and partnership possibilities on paper but in reality injuries fuck it all up.
Huge fan of Tony Blair willierednut would love to read how he plotted everyones demise. Unfortunately my money has to be spent on other things like the cost of living. Alas.
AIG – Orlando or Florida?
AIG – Sorry, Orlando or Californa?
@willie
Disney Land is in California. I went to Disney World and Universal Studios which is in Orlando.
@Costas
I am enjoying myself. Thanks for asking. Hope SAF genuinely does feel Hargo will come back based on his recent progress in his treatment. His comeback will be a long process now. He will have to play a few reserve games and will gradually have to be eased into the first team. We will need more midfield options in the 2nd half of the season when games come thick and fast. Hargo being back by then would be great.
Couple of things- the all to common misconception about players who don’t play for United is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Ozil and Van der Vaart are both fantastic players and anyone who says otherwise is just a little too biased towards United. There are other players who are talented who don’t play for United- that’s just the reality of football. On somewhat of a related note, people are complaining that we didn’t get Ozil- I myself was disappointed. However, to say “Sir Alex should have gotten Ozil! He’s lost the plot” etc. is just frankly ridiculous. We clearly showed an interest in the player, but he wanted to go to Madrid, end of. Just because a player is available on the “cheap” doesn’t mean we are guaranteed his signature- the desires of the player are obviously quite integral to the transfer. Lastly, there are people blabbing about how everyone has strengthened except us, we are going to battle for 4th, etc. etc. My god! You’d think that we sold Rooney, Vidic, Evra, and Fletcher. Realistically, spending is the lowest it has been since 2006, only £350 million was spent, with almost half of that coming from our noisy neighbors, who clearly have no transfer strategy at all except to spend as much money as possible (from goal.com):
Overall, spending was down by 22% on last summer’s Premier League total, despite heavy investment in the transfer market from Manchester City.
The billionaire-owned Manchester club have been a key driver in this transfer window, with the club’s acquisitions of around £125m representing 36% of total spending.
Last year, we finished ONE point behind Chelsea with a massive injury crisis in the early parts of the campaign. Chelsea have sold Deco, sold Ballack, and their aging squad is a year older. I was a bit worried about our lack of transfer activity, but the reality is we have a plethora of young talent that can only make it to the next level and become world class with experience. If we can have Hargreaves back (a big if), the common cliche is that it will be like a new signing. Even without him, I think we have a tremendous squad that can challenge on all fronts. Most importantly, we have Sir Alex, and I trust his mind more than any of us. Have some faith, lads! Come on, United!
AIG – Yeah, i know that, just wondered which Disney world you went to. Been to Florida a few times, great country. Good to see Hargo in the squad, but he’s got a hell of a long way to go yet.
has everyone forgotten wigan just beat tottenham or what?? he will do good there.. hopefully plays every game and not on the bench… god only knows why welbeck went to sunderland… they have so many strikers… its ridiculous
@willie
It is a beautiful country. My first visit here and am enjoying myself. Good to hear from you mate. Hope you are doing well
Are we talking about holidays?
I tell you what that Sydney trip last year was outstanding : )
Lol
Hope it all works out for Hargreaves and Cleverly and Danny
I hope it works out for the team
I just hope we can create something this year because everything is in place
For United
AIG – Doing ok mate, sounds like you had a great time.
@Sanj, spot on mate. Some Utd fans think that any player that has previously played,currently plays/has just signed for Real Madrid is not Utd quality. And whenever Real put a good player on sale that player is deemed a failure by some. When Sneijder was available last season many were saying he’s shite, we don’t need him, he’s overrated etc but look what how he has helped his nation and club achieve since then.
@NotoriousRedDevil, Cleverley has developed though. The main reason he joined a Premiership club is to play against Premier league teams. He hasn’t gone there to learn, but to prove himself against the top flight. Tbh I was surprised to know that he asked for a loan move, a few weeks ago he did say that 1 game at Utd is worth 5 elsewhere, as well as saying he loves watching Scholes in training and wants to learn from him etc. I’d rather he joined Bolton but there’s obviously a reason why he joing Wigan instead of the other clubs that were interested, Fergie and himself know of that reason.
@Willie
Had a great time, still enjoying myself here and there is still one week to go.
Fze123
Well mate I think it’s pretty clear why Tom is at Wigan
It’s a mental attribute that Sir Alex wants instilled in his game
Maybe that’s what will make him a complete player
It’s an opinion – it’s the only reason I have why TC has gone to Wigan over everyone else.
Point is if he survives it and learns from it he’ll be just okay
Same as Welbeck – but I think his education is a little different – at Sunderland under Brucie he will gain from stability – something his game lacks
Likewise – Diouf – his game lacks confidence in front of goal – at the moment he is doing just fine at Blackburn
Nothing is for sure is for certain but they will either come back the better for it or will move on
At the end Sir Alex knows – that’s enough
@AIG
Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip then. Sounds like you visited some great locations. I’d love to go to the States one day. Actually, I’d love to go to the States to watch Wrestlemania live, lol.
Anyone got any team news for the reserves game?
Faddy – Don’t know any team news, but Rio and Ando are starting the game.
News:
Yes, Hargo was confirmed in the 25 man squad!! Hope the guy can comeback and show his talented!! Great news, and can’t wait to see him and Rio in the pitch!
@willierednut
I’m presuming its a quarter to eight kick off?
Faddy – Half 7 mate.
@willierednut
Cheers
@willirednut
Found the team, its Devlin, Wes, Gill, Wootton, Rio, De Laet, Macheda, Anderson, Cofie, Eikrem, Ajose
any links for the game??
Faddy – Thanks for that, Rio and Ando really need the minutes, and then hopefully they’ll be at least on the bench at Everton.
The games not on mutv, so i don’t think any links will be available.
@willierednut
Yeah they do although if Ferdinand can come through tonight with no problems then i would actually like to see him start at Everton because the Fulham game is still fresh on my mind where Jonny Evans did struggle
@willierednut
Yeah thats true although if Ferdinand comes through tonights game then i think we should play him against Everton because the Fulham game is still fresh on my mind. Although obviously we don’t want to rush him back and have him get injured again. Tough choice but i hope he plays
Faddy – Jonny did struggle against Zamora, but i was surprised Vidic wasn’t marking him, instead of Jonny. Rio being back earlier than expected, is a real bonus for us, we really need him to stay fit now.
@willierednut
Yeah Vidic wasn’t great either, last seasons game at Everton wasn’t exactly a stunner for Jonny either but if he plays we know that he is good enough and so we can afford to trust him. Cannae find any streams for the reserve game.
@ obertanthenewstar – I haven’t forgotten mate that Wigan beat Spurs, but am not trying to be condescending or nothing but that doesn’t make them a good side. York and Southend hold victories over us, that doesn’t make them great.
@Fze123 – Totally spot on about Bolton, despite Owen Coyle being a grade A tool. When you Bolton play you know there’s a chance they may pick up points against United and any other team for that matter. Not only can they but they can do without a backs to the wall job also. This has been the same under Alardyce, Megson and now Coyle. With Wigan you either see a lucky 1 goal win or a thrashing of epic proportions.
I’m just sceptical because this lad has spent 18 months at Leicester and cannon fodder Watford where I’ll admit he was the Rose that grew from Concrete. We don’t know how long Scholes and Giggs have left but its likely to be less than more. Those 2 are amazing on the pitch now in high pressure situation can you imagine what they’ll be like in the less intense training sessions. He would learn more there than from N’Zogbia and Rodellaga, Oh well. Good luck Tom prove me wrong. Last criticism of this whole affair from me this season.
Have some faith fellas. You folks are talking as if you have that crystal ball from LOTR that can reveal the future.
This is a philosophical decision from SAF, who has the best record in grooming young talent, and it all based on judgment. There’s no right or wrong, well not yet at this moment of time i suppose.
IF he stays at Old Trafford, IF scholes and carrick and ando all other MFs stays fit, he’ll never get a chance to get even on the bench. His only hope of playing is the carlington cup games and probably some reserve game outings.
In that situation it’s better off he gets some regular playing time be it at Bolton or Wigan or even Blackpool, IF they can promise regular game time for him.
See, it all based on all sorts of big IFs.
What I’m trying to say is at this stage of his career it’s no longer about training and watch and learn. It’s about getting into thick of action, bring up your confidence level, facing tough opponents and better still do it here on the EPL platform, where he’ll be expected to perform in the near future for our club.
Here’s one wishing you good luck Tom. Now show us some of your stuffs!
Notorious @ 20:54: “We don’t know how long Scholes and Giggs have left but its likely to be less than more. Those 2 are amazing on the pitch now in high pressure situation”
I’ve also wondered about their “longevity”. For what it’s worth – and that might not be much but it is interesting – there are a fair number of ice hockey players who are able to go on and on and on. The great Gordie Howe played into his fifties before he retired in the late ’70s and Chris Chelios – who was a very rugged defenceman – has only now just retired at 48. the oldest player in the NHL is 42. The games are not the same obviously – ice hockey is more “all action” and much rougher although it is played with a quite incredible amount of protection – but in both sports aerobic capacity is crucial and with new, advanced training methods (and much more willingness to stay in condition year-round) there has been a significant increase in the number of players who have been able to command a position on the team sheet up to – and into – their forties. Considering the way that Scholes and Giggs seem to take care of themselves – and the way they play the game – it is not inconceivable that they could carry on for three/four years and maintain a level of competitiveness that would be a real challenge to youngsters who would be expected to dislodge them. The Cleverley situation makes more sense in this perspective since it would appear that Paul Scholes’ continued ability to play at the highest level has convinced SAF that a kid like Cleverley isn’t good enough to take away his playing time just yet – that being the case, Tom is better off getting EPL games under his belt. If he can play 25 matches for Wigan then he will benefit from that experience and come back next year as a more serious competiror for a squad role.
Football is changing. These days, players find their top level a little bit later (around 22-25) because they need full physical development in order to compete in English football. Nani and Fletcher are the two most recent examples of players who disappointed in their early twenties but are delivering big-style now. I have similar hopes for Cleverley and Hernandez, who will both be top players in my opinion but it may take 2 years. Bebe and Macheda will also need time in that way.