Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite sex. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.
On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him. Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.
Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.
The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.
Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that it wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.
In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.
In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.
In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Sam Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”
So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were made by others. These are the cold, hard facts.
Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and The Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.
As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.
“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.
If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible if they have, as has been reported, called for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.
The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. A report in 2000 by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs concluded that “there is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.
Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.
————-
The FA’s Evra Report
Man Utd News 24/7
The stitchup on Evra vs the Chelsea groundsman reminded me of To Kill a Mockingbird.
Great read!
I don’t like racism but what happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me? Isn’t this an over reaction? Or is it appropriate given how violent English fans are (I imagine they use any excuse to cause grief – just like those looters the other month). I love English football on the pitch. Enlighten me. (I’m not in the UK)
Great read.. good insight aswell..
Evra > Legend
g-man says:
I don’t like racism but what happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me? Isn’t this an over reaction? Or is it appropriate given how violent English fans are (I imagine they use any excuse to cause grief – just like those looters the other month). I love English football on the pitch. Enlighten me. (I’m not in the UK)
Are you even on the same planet as the rest of us, bye bye WUM.
gman
Racism is more serious than name calling.
Liverpool simply aren’t happy unless they are the victims. Even Gerrard was painted as a victim in the assault of that DJ that was clearly caught on CCTV.
What would be required as “sufficient proof” in this regard please? I see the FA shying away from accepting the allegation as true in order to protect the league…
An excellent post, very well thought out and very well constructed. Looking at some websites and seeing the hate and verdicts already being dished out is quick horrible to see. Has football become that important that we’ll be so blinkered to all other views in life
I am a Liverpool fan and I wondered what your take om this would be…and not that it will matter to you one jot or not (and ill probably take shit now myself) I agree with alot of what was said here. I cant comment on the Evra accusing 3 players thing because I havent seen that stuff on twitter and I havent seen any proof of that so clearly thats stupid thing for fans to tweet out.
I was djing in Poland over the weekend so I had to watch the game out there rather than go as usual…and I watched it on TV for the first time in a long time (live, that is). I didnt see much to be honest other than them having words, but who knows. Apparently sky have found nothing at all – but what I find funny to take is what does Evra have to gain by saying this if its not true? Why would he do that? Thats why part of me thinks something might of happened even though clearly I dont want that (and may i add – not because I dont want suarez banned and villifed – but because I dont want racism in football full stop).
The problem Suarez has now is that if no evidence is found – United fans will still say that he was guilty but just not caught – that assumption will still be made, it has to be, or else it means one of your own players was lying. Personally I find racism, in all its forms (even blind hatred of someone from another city, etc.) to be frankly pathetic. I hope this didn’t happen and goes away quickly and I am saddened that what was actually a decent enough (in the second half) fair game with a just about fair score is now going to be pulled apart.
If it does turn out to be true then as a non racist, not a liverpool fan, then i am not only disappointed but disgusted. If there is no evidence to back up Evra claims – how do/will United fans then feel? That suarez was innocent, or simply not caught.
How sad that we even have to talk about this.
“Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence.” Big contradiction statement. but I see where you’re coming from.
nice read Scott … you summed it up brilliantly … I do believe that Suarez must have done something wrong as Evra was really riled up, especially in the second half, but as they say, innocent until proven guilty.
Next time I hope our lads land in a crunching tackle (legal) on him as soon as he starts the game when he comes down to old trafford
the onus of proof lies with evra. however, not being able to prove your claim should not automatically equal ban for evra.
@Stu
well said man.
Hello fellow Reds.
Great read Sean, agree with almost everything
Exactly my thoughts…just because it cant be proved, doesnt mean it didnt happen
Burden of proof is going to be an issue here. It is very much ‘he says, she says’. Mind you going on some previous FA findings just about any judgment is possible on a whim.
So even in the case of a fair trial I think the allegation will be unproven. As far as I can see Suarez would struggle to prove defamation for similar reasons.
As United fans do we still trust or put stock in the FAs ability to come to conclusions based on the facts. I think we always hold out the hope that they might do even though their ability to screw us time and time again has been all too clear.
Next Sunday that Blue Moon will be covered in blue blood
As others have suggested, proof is the key here. From what some of our own on ROM said yesterday after seeing the video – which was subsequently taken down by the F.A. -, Suarez clearly used the ‘N’ word at Evra quite a few times. There is also a GIF somehere which I cannot open at office. So, there is sufficient proof that Suarez did indeed make those vile remarks.
However, proof was available for the Busquest incident also. The problem is the lip-reading is not the same as “actually hearing the sound”. Similar movement of lips can produce any number of sounds. Though you can argue that in this context, the only words that make any sense for that particular lip movement is the ‘N’ word, nobody is going to convict someone over that. I am not well-versed in law, but I wouldn’t think such evidence will be admissible in court as well.
I can understand why Chris Kamara might be afraid of coming out because even if they were captured on video, it would be practially impossible to prove that they were indeed racist remarks. That would be the case here as well. I’d imagine the case being dropped eventually with no action being taken against anyone; however sad that may sound.
Apart from that, brilliant post by Sean. It covers much of the reactions from both sides, although I will admit that I was guilty of similar reaction agaisnt Suarez – though I have to admit I did that only after watching the aforementioned video. Absolutely top comment from stu as well. How great it would be if all fans from both sides were as level-headed as the author and the commenter?
Kristian Walsh with some hilarious backtracking on Twitter – “I set out to show how this was wrong. I said Evra had accused people, based on ‘previous’ ie: the groundsman. This statement was not true.”
He did no research, allowed plenty of Liverpool fans to retweet him and use his official position within the club as backup and then decided to dump the blame on them for believing him. Fucking moron.
@ stu
Common sense at last.
@Scott
Good post, very well constructed.
Some Liverpool fan on football365 thinks that these allegations will damage Suarez’ reputation.
What reputation?
Sorry *Sean*
Thought, great a bloody good post by Scott but alas no. Great piece Sean.
It is an interesting strategy for Liverpool to start demanding disciplinary action vs Evra. If someone accuses another of a crime and the allegations are not proven it doesn’t necessarily follow that the original claim was ficticious
Therefore Liverpool can’t really expect Evra to be prosecutred. That leads me to the thought that such comments are designed to undermine him. Quite a disgusting ploy.
So let’s move away from that sideshow and focus on the fact that if Suarez is guily of this Liverpool pretty much have to fire him.
Is that harsh, is it unrealistic? I wouldn’t say so. Racist remarks typically end careers. This is in reality a very high stakes situation for Liverpool.
Good piece overall, although it does turn into somewhat of a partisan attack and diverts away from more important points.
There is a more serious issue here than taking sides, that being what the long term effect of this case will be on the perception, reporting, and dealing with of racism in football. Essentially, there are two possible outcomes here.
Firstly, that evidence is found that proves that Suarez made racially motivated comments towards Evra and is dealt with accordingly. From Sky’s comments regarding examination of their footage, this seems an unlikely outcome, but were it to be so, the case would be pretty clear cut and Suarez should then be dealt with in the appropriate manner.
The other alternative, which seems highly likely, is that no evidence is found and so what went on during the match remains shrouded in mystery. What then? Obviously there will be polarising opinions from Liverpool and United fans, but the problem comes in the action that should then be taken because either Suarez has got away with making racist remarks, or Evra has got away with falsely accusing someone and the chances are neither party will ever be vindicated.
If Evra has made a false accusation here (and I’m not insinuating that he has), he WILL get away with it. There is no possible way to state without doubt that Suarez did not make a racial slur at Evra. There will always be “the cameras missed it”. Even if the FA believed unequivocally that Evra is lying, they cannot punish him because of the precedent that it will set. They would be saying “if you accuse someone of racism and we cannot prove it, you will be punished for making that claim”.
So what then? The FA is wide open to the risk of false racism claims, basically. They really need to set their stall out immediately. Any incidents of racism between players should be reported to the referee instantly and the referee needs to take charge of the situation. The ref needs times of incidents and there needs to be accuracy. Evra may be able to provide this, but at the moment, he’s left the FA with the need to trawl through 97 odd minutes of footage from multiple camera angles.
It’s a delicate situation for the FA to deal with and I’m sure we can rely on them to deal with it in their usual professional and consistent manner.
I guess we will never know the truth. Even if I was a neutral, I’d take Evra’s word over Suarez any day, but that’s just me.
Racism has no room in sport or in any walk of life.
I commend you on a finely balanced piece putting such a contentious topic in perspective. You have threaded the needle well.
Do the FA really want to stamp out racism from the game? I see the clips but I can’t lip read so I depend on the experts at the FA to inform me what was said, like when they accused Rooney of saying, ‘what fucking what’, when it looked to me like he said ‘what? fucking yeah’ or something. He apologised, saying he was wrong to swear knowing the cameras are watching, and as we all know – got banned. Suarez has been caught in the same way but hasn’t admitted it. Perhaps he wanted to apologise but was told not to because of the seriousness of the offence, what with all the high profile stamping out of racism going on in the game.
The FA probably want players like Suarez in the league more than they want to stamp out racism. If it was a relatively unknown player from a small(er) club being accused of racism, it’d get dealt with appropriately. What is it these days, 10 on the FA board where 5 are from fucking Barclays EPL? 5 people who will gladly have racism endure in return for Premier League supremacy over other ‘products’. Then a City cunt as chair.
Racism is prejudice. The FA are prejudiced.
The liverpool fans must realise that you mustnt go tribal over everything in football
I’ve treated Suarez as guilty since I heard of the accusations and I’ll continue to do so – I don’t need the corrupt FA to prove otherwise to be honest. What would Evra stand to gain from making this up? Absolutely nothing. Suarez is a disgusting excuse for a human being and I’ll treat him as such.
Also, some of the comments on here are in fact showing exactly the same kind of ignorance, narrow mindedness, and jumping to conclusions that the original article is highlighting. United fans don’t like Suarez, therefore he’s a racist and a despicable human being. He’ll get away with it because the FA are corrupt, that sort of stuff. There is no proof either way, so maybe people should wait before jumping to conclusions so that when they form those conclusions, they can do so in possession of the facts?
We should plan something for black history month. Outside Suarez’s house.
Outside a man who as yet has not been proven to be a racist’s house? Good idea.
Hey everyone, xol has just emailed me and used a racial slur against me. Everyone protest outside his house.
Same situation.
On another note, that twat Gerrard did his ‘five’ celebration again, didn’t he? Yeh mate, well done on that great goal you just scored. And well done on the one European cup you, personally, have actually won.
After Giggs had whipped in that corner for the equaliser, he should’ve remined Stevie how many English titles he, personally, has. But sadly, Giggsy doesn’t have enough fingers for that
This is such a depressing story on so many levels, and attempting to avoid prejudging this on the basis of which club you support is nearly impossible, but surely Evra should have highlighted it to the ref at the time. If it happened as many times as he claims he should have told the ref there and then. It’s not like he didn’t have a number of chats with Marriner during the course of the second half. Also given that it’s likely now to result in serious repercussions for one or other of the players involved, surely someone should have advised Evra against making the claims in a TV interview and to let the FA investigate without tarnishing either player’s reputation before it is proven or not. As it is, the allegations are out there and if as now seems likely there is no proof (it’s now 48 hours since the game and I’m sure Sky will have been scouring their many camera angles religiously) Evra will have a reputation amongst some as a liar, Suarez will still be seen as a racist amongst others and what is already a dangerously poisonous rivalry between the two clubs gets even worse.
Travelling squad for tomorrow’s game:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2011/Oct/rio-ferdinand-misses-manchester-united-trip-to-romania.aspx
Ferdinand rested for City I presume. Can’t see Tom returning in time for that one though.
One thing – can I just ask…as a few have mentioned this. Were have Liverpool “demanded” for Evra to be punished. They back Luis yes in a statement which is understandable – but the only place I have read that they are “demanding” for Evra to be punished was on the daily mail website – with not one single comment to back it up. So now people are believing The Daily Mail?
I might br wrong, but I dont think Liverpool have demanded anything of the sort, unless there are actual quotes? They just backed up the words of there own player which is the perfectly natural reaction I guess – rightly or wrongly.
Can anyone show me a link with quotes that Liverpool have “demanded” Evra be punished, or is it just paper talk bullshit. How long before Sky Sports call this incident Evragate as well I wonder.
I dread to even put talk sport on today.
(ps. in no way am i undermining the potential seriousness of this issue – see my earlier post – just hopeing that more chinese whispers dont start to sully this even worse).
@kanchelskis – Yep he did. I actually thought he was signalling how many trophies he’d won, but then remembered he won the league cup twice. Although as a United fan I’m not biased enough to recognise that he is quite a good player, I just wish he would leave the petty insults to us fans – It just makes him look a bit foolish. To actually boast about his team winning a competition more than us when they haven’t even competed in it for the past two years is a bit odd.
He’s going to end up like another Shearer. Played for his boyhood club but never won a lot. He should of gone to Chelsea, won the league a couple of times then finished of his career back at Pool.
This is a balanced, well written article, and Sean O’Sullivan is right – the claim that Evra has “made similar claims before” is indeed a LIE, and thats why Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis haven’t even been mentioned in all this even though THEY made the allegations against their fellow Anglo Saxons. Something tells me the deaf supporters who made the other allegation won’t warrant much space on future back pages either. Nope, all the focus is on Evra, who until now hadn’t accused anybody of anything before.
But the British Press have sunk even deeper, and theres another old story about Evra being re-heated for the passive-racists of Britain. Long story short, when Patrice chose to play for France over Senegal, the Senegalese fans let him know of their displeasure and called him a “white man’s monkey”…
Now the thing is, Evra never described these insults as “racist” because that would be both stupid and untrue. Welbeck got the same treatment from Ghanaian fans for the same reason, but at the end of the day these supporters were not targeting our players for being black. The Senegalese fans called Evra a “monkey” because they thought he was “an idiot who is easily led” – they most certainly didn’t mean “hang the black bastard from a tree”, and I funnily enough I doubt they meant that “Africans are monkeys with no history”. So Its fair to say the incident with Evra in Senegal wasn’t racist at all, but this didn’t stop the press reporting the story at the time as racism even though our player didn’t describe it that way. Worst of all, this made-up story is now being used today as another example of Evra “playing the race card and crying wolf”. You couldn’t make this shit up.
An absolutely splendid and well written piece Sean, very balanced as well….Top comment from u 2 Stu
@Stu – Completely of topic as too much racism talk can really depress me in this day and age. But as a Liverpool fan I’d love to hear what you think of Alan Green, if you’ve ever listened to him. As a United fan I can’t stand him. Not because he’s a Liverpool fan but because he so blatantly hates United and he’s allowed to air his pointless views on air. Why he got the task of commentating on Saturday I’ll never know.
What riled my up on Saturday was when he was moaning about Evra faking injury when Suarez caught him and in the same breath said he could understand why Downing took a dive. Bizarre man.
@Stu – I haven’t seen a direct Liverpool quote either, but every paper is reporting it as coming straight from a Liverpool spokesman. More to the point… if its just paper talk shouldn’t your club pull a finger out and distance themselves from the statement?
Ask me, LFC did put that out there, because they’re in damage limitation mode and want to see how the land lies. If enough twats in Liverpool and beyond believe the lie that Evra has a history of this, im sure your classless club will stand by its vilification of Evra – but – if enough of you have the decency to not go down that well trodden road, then maybe LFC will retract the current rhetoric and act with a bit of class.
We can only speculate at this stage, but even so, the fachts are that Liverpool are not title contenders, you cannot cross our path in Europe, and apart from your visit to OT you are pretty much irrelevant to United this season. So with that in mind it really does beg the question what does Evra have to gain in lying about this??? Personally I believe him, just like I believed Phelan when he said he heard racism at the Bridge. The fact Alex Ferguson came with Evra to speak to the referee says it all for me.
@ what??? – Excellent couple of digs in your post there. Your entitled to stick up for your club – and your entitled to make whatever comments you want about Liverpool. Im not defending my team against your words because I dont need to – its only your opinion and thats all good.
But one thing I would say is that Liverpool dont have to come out and say that they deny asking Evra to be punished, if they havent said it. Why should they.
By that logic – every single time a player is linked to a club in a paper, the club should release a statement, for every one, saying that it is not true? Why should Liverpool release a statement tro deny what the daily mail have said? Is that common practice? I suppose it does happen from time to time…but there are bigger matters at stake at the moment are there not.
I dont get that – but like I say, your opinion is your opinion and thats fair enough.
I tend to agree with John Barnes on racism. Football, mirrors society. Until you address racism in society, you won’t get anywhere in dispelling it from football. Sure, it’s a lot better, than say, 25 years ago. That’s because of the countless camera’s at football grounds. You just have to look at the lack of Black managers in the divisions, to see it’s still relevant in todays game. As for Suarez and Evra? I’m gonna hold off on making any judgment until the full facts come out. As others have said, it’s a tough thing to prove. If Suarez is found guilty of this charge, I want the severest punishment possible. Paddy Evra is 100% right…..there is no need for that kind of talk on the pitch.
@Stu Fair point. I’ve edited the line in question.
Lads check out the Hernandez sub thread and our pal’s CROoney comment. Fucking priceless. Just another cheap shot at Berbatov.
@ Briggsy – I dont like Alan Green – not because of anything to do with whom he does or does not support – but because I think hes a terrible commentator. I also dont like John Motson although hes an engl9sh tradition and ill get blasted for that probably. I think they are dinosaurs from commentating days gone by.
I sont like Mark Chapman either as hes just a bad anchroman and interviews people like a schoolboy…but I do like Colin Murray whom im sure most of you lot hate.
I do like listening to Gary Neville summarise as well – as most Liverpool fans I go the match with agree (although clearly I dont think id like to take him out for dinner).
I try to make sure I like a journalist or commentator for what they are saying, rather than who they played for or supported. Even though clearly, im classless rat munching scum, and so on.
I hate steve claridge more than anyone on earth, The worlds most mundane person, If you really want to hear some fantastic views on these events check out his no doubt brilliant take of it on five live tonight. If you are in the UK or Ireland that is – which contrary to popular belief, im sure some of you are.
O’Sullican,
great article mate, superb read.
thanks for the enlightenment..
yup i have come across many pool fans who say evra is Liar and uses the race card wrongly..
fuck them all, its just that they did not find any real evidence against the claims but that doesnt mean the incident dint happen as u rightly said..
cheers mate,
UNITED
kanchelskis – Hello mate. Yes Stevie me certainly did do the 5 fingered salute. Fuck off Gerrard. Its history now, come back when you have a premier league medal. Horrible cunt.
stu – Good post pal. Fair play.
Alan Green is a fucking cunt who shows absolutely no respect toward Fergie at all. His bile shouldn’t be allowed to pollute the airwaves. I heard Danny Mills calling Evans and De Gea weak links. Oh how insightful Danny you nomark cunt. Nothing like following the media.
stu – Ha. Steve Claridge. Have to agree is awful. I don;t like Murray and its not because he is a Liverpool fan. When he used to be on radio one and I listened the odd time he is such a little know all cunt. Thinks he knows everything about Music, Films , Football and so on. To be fair he isn’t that bad toward United.
Follow Sean O’Sullivan on twitter. Top red. Great piece.
@Briggsy
I agree.
Having said that, I just read the Guardian’s write-up, and apparently at the final whistle, Ferdinand made Welbeck stand with his back to the Kop, and pointed at the ’19′ on his back!
Still, that’s a bit more creative than running around like a halfwit holding 5 fingers in the air.
Told you this clown posted on the mail site. Just look at his comments. Fucking idiot:
“I am not sure what SAF was thinking, assuming he was thinking at all in selecting a Carling cup team. Either he was assuming Liverpool to be a rubbish team ( which it is actually )or he was taking them too seriously. But in either scenario his team selection was just bizarre. A team devoid of any pace and guile? Poor Jones put in an unfamiliar place, Welbeck out of his depth as lone striker? Park is rubbish as usual and Ferdinand is history, proven yet again., . End result? Utd dropped 2 points and chase of City starts ! I don’t see City dropping too many points along the way. Conclusion? Utd must beat City this weekend. Otherwise, City will run away with the title. And yes, I’m a Utd fan for over 20 years! Scary to think the squad City has now. Then again, money can buy anything.”- John Tring, London, 17/10/2011
Well written and well thought out. I’m a Liverpool supporter and this is the reasonable and correct way to go about a very ugly situation.
King Eric
Hello buddy…. Who the fuck is Danny Mills anyway eh? Some washed up good for nothing footballer who thinks his opinion matters… How on earth do these media organizations recruit their pundits for fucks sake….. No more credibility at all
Does Kuyt spit on Evra when he is on the ground? Go to 1:29. http://youtu.be/7egfObpLEWM?t=1m28s
@Stu – Good. The more people who hate Alan Green the better the world will become. I like John Motson, because he’s a traditionalist, but I agree he should of stopped commentating a few years back.
Didn’t like Mark Chapman when he was on the Chris Moyles show and although he can keep in check the twat, that is Robbie Savage, he doesn’t really do much else. To be honest, I thought I would hate Colin Murray. I tried to, boy did I try, but I actually started to warm up to the little fella. Did I say Robbie Savage is a twat? Good.
I like Martin Tyler, glad they got rid of his useless side-kick Grey, just need to release Jamie Redknapp back into the wild and don’t even get me started on Andy Townsend! How the hell he gets paid to fly all over Europe to bore millions on a Wednesday night is beyond me.
To finish it off with one major annoyance – Will people stop calling Gerrard – ‘Stevie G’ like he’s their fooking lover! I just can’t stop picturing some 1980′s DJ when they call him that – Rave on!
Is Steve Claridge still working on TV? I thought he was long gone with Setanta – there is no God!
Robbie Savage is a twat.
Whether Suarez used the ‘N’ word or not, something occured out on the pitch and it caused Evra to be incandescent with rage.
I don’t see the truth coming out. Camera’s might catch a player mouthing something but I can’t see the FA relying on lip readers for evidence.
As for Suarez, I don’t like him, he is a frigging cheat and his preference for live human flesh pisses me off.
I am in full support of the notion ‘innocent until proven otherwise’ but the fact is Sir Alex Ferguson chose to take his captain and inform the referee of this allegation. In the context of the result this is quite interesting. I feel we won a good hard fought point at Anfield so I can’t see why SAF and his captain would be in a ‘spoiling’ mood after the match.
As for the story about Liverpool demanding a ban for Evra. Daily Mail stories tend to be high on bullshit, though if this story is true than Liverpool are not behaving in a classy manner.
guidedbyunited
Interesting. Certainly looks like it doesn’t it?
Pretty much any other player and I reckon you’d have a case, but – even though he’s a scouser – Kuyt is one of football’s nice guys and I really can’t imagine him doing something like that.
@kanchelskis
I think he realised quite quickly what he was doing and put his hand down. Made it look like he was giving a camp wave to someone in the crowd.
@King Eric –
Danny Mills is on the radio? What the…
One that grates me listening to an ex-footballer is when they start criticising a player that is so beyond the level they played at. By all means talk about tactics and knowledge you may of gathered during your playing time, but verbally assaulting a player who has achieved greater things that you is just taking the piss!
And in other news, Rio misses the trip to romania, fuck sake he better be fit or i’ll tear my hair out
On topic: the racist comment may prove difficult to prove and if thats the case it should be left at that. There’s a ton of shit said on the football pitch all the time, Evra looks the sort to just let things be but must have been really pissed at this one – if its true. That said its probably fair to assume suarez did say something because it was plain for all to see how upset Pat was
Tomc C is missing on the trip as well, i think he’ll miss the city clash as well.Doubtful he’ll be thrust into the derby at the weekend after being out for so long and still no match time
Rio can’t play twice a week anymore. Fact. Unfortunate to say the least.
@this Is The One – Sorry, but I hate the overuse of the word ‘Fact’ so I’m going to say this – although Rio is on the way down he did manage to play twice in a week just a few weeks back – Stoke and Basel
@This is the One
I don’t think this is a fact at all – he can’t do it every week, that’s a fact. Look at the way Fergie has used Giggsy in recent years though, it will be similar to that – come the tail end of the season when Rio CAN play Sat-Wed-Sat involving a crucial knockout game you’ll be glad he was rested for games like this.
Yeh, Rio has to be used sparingly. Shouldn’t think well miss him hugely against Galati.
IMO he looked top drawer on Sat, other than letting fatty past him for the FK. First booking was never a booking.
Bollocks, forgot to add a bit more to my post.
I’d like to see Vidic and Jones together as a centre back paring on Wednesday. See how that develops.
Quoting the FSW? Not good. No more facts ffs. Rio is a Rolls Royce of a CH. The manager is being sensible. No need to risk, when Vida is back.
@Briggsy
Galati match is tomorrow, fella.
Great read and thanks for giving clarity on then other two incidents being referred to by Liverpool’s press.
Willie
Talking sense as ever
Not sure if he reads the blog regularly but I hope Giles Oakley is ok, I miss his articles and insights…
Hoping for a comfortable win tomorrow
Lindegaard
Fabio. Vidic. Evans. Smalling
Valencia. Carrick. Anderson. Park
Berba(hopefully). Rooney
Evra,Giggs,jones,young need to rest
One of the two footballer’s is a respected team player who has been given the United captain’s armband on several occasions.
The other is a yet-to-be-incarcerated criminal who bites people and pulls people’s hair like uncivilized dogs.
In a question of character, it is a no-contest.
@Stu
fuck me sideways, a reasonable scouser! Whats´s next? Millwall girl scouts, handing out cookies pre game?
This is part of the statement of findings and reasons requested under regulation 9 of the FA Regulations for Football Association Disciplinary Action1 following a Regulatory Commission decision at a hearing on 4 and 5 December 2008. This Commission2 heard and ruled on charges brought by The FA against the Manchester United footballer Patrice Evra and against Chelsea Football Club :
54. There is an important point to stress: The allegation of the racist remark is completely irrelevant to the charges against Mr Evra. He has never claimed to have heard any such remark. It follows that he claims no provocation by any racist remark or any justification for his actions as a result of any such remark.
Evra was fined £15,000 and banned for four matches. Chelsea were held responsible for their own failure to ensure groundsman Tony Bethell’s proper conduct and was fined £25,000.
@kanchelskis
Cheers fella. I just assumed it was on a Wednesday as we played last on a Tuesday.
I wasn’t a fan of team slection or tatics,don’t think the dippers are that good and Utd played like a CL away game.I’d have prefered to see an attacking lineup and taken the game to the dippers but it is what it is,move on. it doesn’t matter who plays lone striker Utd usually don’t play well,the 5 man midfield just doesn’t click well for us.
I’d be surprised if Rio could ever play 3 games a week,as some other lads pointed out will be saved for the bigger games,think all we can hope for is 30 games per season unless his body makes a miraculous recovery.On Adams, Rio made minimal contact at best no question it was a dive,very similar to the Rentboy penalty last year,untill players start getting booked for making a meal of things it’ll continue.
Evra has no reason to make shit up,Suarez is a cheating lowlife despicable cunt
Cedars – Cheers pal.
@wayne
The dippers aren’t that good, but they do consistently raise their game for us, especially at Anfield.
I mean, they haven’t been a better team than us for donkeys years, yet beat us there in the league 3 years running in spite of that, before Sunday. I have no issue with Fergie’s selection. As I’ve suggested before, the game plan was clearly to contain and frustrate for 70 minutes, before bringing on Nani and Rooney to win the game at the end.
The plan basically worked to a T, with the exception of Giggsy stepping out of the wall inexpicably.
It’s annoying that we have two big rivals… two teams that will always raise their game against us. Watch Liverpool roll over and get rogered when City visit Anfield.
United matches at Anfield are always the biggest of the season regardless of where Liverpool are in the table, hence the team selection by the boss…. We are better than them all over the pitch but that means nothing on the day….Got what we were after and now we move on
@Stu – the digs? Whatever you wanna call them pal they have nothing to do with the Club I support. Anybody on here who reads my posts will tell you im objective when it comes to other teams. Very objective. I don’t even call your lot bin dippers or murderers or anything.
So having said that, I couldn’t care if it was Demba Ba who made the allegations, my response to LFC’s reported statements would be exactly the same – what a classless, horrible little club you are – thats the first thing. Secondly how can you ask if its “standard procedure” for a club to correct lies? Apart from Rafa’s comedy routine I’ve never seen a LFC press conference, so maybe you lot do things a little different over there? All I know is United under Alex Ferguson are always forthright with holding the media to account for telling lies, whether big or small. He’ll even criticise his own players in public if its the right thing to do. We don’t call him the greatest for his trophies alone, the man has great integrity.
As for you comparing this situation to a transfer rumour, come on. If a club says the wrong thing during the window the asking price can go up or another deal can go bust. Thats a big part of why clubs generally ignore transfer rumours and stay silent, but you already know that so why are you comparing the two? Bottomline Stu, if you needed telling, this isn’t a transfer saga or bit of gossip – racism has been formally alleged and the standard procedure is to conduct an investigation. So considering this is a very serious situation, you’d expect any statements falsely attributed to LFC to be loudly denied asap wouldn’t you? Or maybe not?
Truth be told im sure you know your own club better than I do, so maybe thats why you expect less from them than I do? Like I said Ferguson has openly addressed many issues much smaller than this when it comes to papers telling lies, so thats probably why im not as relaxed as you regarding your clubs reaction to this allegation. I’d be honestly be shocked if United came out within 24hrs demanding punishment if the allegation was wrong.
And its not just the daily mail carrying those comments, as you claim. Every single newspaper is reporting the same statement and stating that it comes from LFC. I’ve read it in the Guardian, but even if LFC didn’t say it, the refusal (or delay) to correct the “media lie” is something you’d expect from a small time club who half agree with stigmatising Evra. Thats how it looks, and personally I’d like to think United would wait for the investigation and avoid saying anything to generate those types of headlines. Truth will out soon enough, but seriously pal, my opinion of LFC on this issue has nothing to do with the team I support, its just common decency mate.
god i hate suarez after saturdays shit. cheeky little prick dancing like a fucking coked up uruguaying hooker in front of DDG before stevie mes shit free kick
@kanchelskis hi mate i’m not a fan of the lone striker or 5 man midfield,hoping to hold a team and nick the game late is very dangerous and by doing that and sitting back give inferior teams a better chance of competing.Just think the 3 ponts were there for the taking and Utd didn’t give it a chance
Just don’t agree with playing to get a draw,thought it was a shit game and a very poor performance and Utd play much better with attacking formations and taking the game to teams
Nigger, Yellow banana, Polish Pig, Ang Mo Kao,… All sorts of racist names but what the big deal??
My neighbours across my house cursing :”Fuck your mother’s smelly cunt!!” Every single day I hear those words but life still goes on.
All these activities of stamping out racism are a huge load of bullshit. Dont waste time on them. Just play the beautiful game. Evra should have kicked the balls of Suarez if he was so pissed off.
@wayne
We ‘took the game’ to Basle. At Old Trafford. And were lucky to escape with a point.
It’s early days, and Fergie needs to experiment with the balance of the team. He said after Basle and Norwich that we’d been lucky we hadn’t conceded more, and I think he was just trying to guard against shooting ourselves in the foot by conceding early or conceding twice. As I said, his gameplan worked, bar a moment of madness. Would you be so robust in your criticism of the formation/tactics if Giggsy hadn’t stepped out of the wall?
First off. Excellent article. Do you have a legal background Sean?
This is a direct quote from a policeman I had a conversation with not to long ago.
“If one individual is racially abused, then the one who is abused needs to stay calm,not react and report it to the police with description/names of individual who will then investigate it. the individual may not be charged but the incident will be logged so if there is a repeat offence action will be taken. If the abused individual reacts with violence, it is very difficult for the police to do anything to the abuser.” (that’s a cop out in my book)
However it boils down to one mans word against another. So essentially it is very hard to prove, especially if its one man getting the abuse from a group of people. Numbers win.
Evra has to prove it, the fact Sky can’t find anything is comical considering their cameras were conveniently left on in the chelski groundman incident. Gordon Taylor wants to be mediator between Evra and Suarez which immediately suggests to me that they HAVE found something but not serious enough hence the mediation by the PFA.
The FA and others when promoting the Anti-Racism campaign focus mainly on fans and have forgotten about players. I dont think they will do anything, if a lip reader reported Finnan and nothing was done, if Phelan reported that cunt at chelski and nothing was done why would it now? Call me cyncial but it si obvious when you look it the FA is run by white men, why else id the government asking for ethnic representation in football? Even the Americans have surpassed us in sport and racism was legal in some places up until the 50s!
I can’t see anything being done I’m afraid.
Whether he said something or not Suarez is still a horrible goofy cunt. I remember his handball in the world cup against Ghana. He walked off the pitch like he’d just found out he’s got aids and then when Gyan missed the penalty he’s running round as though he’s just won the Euromillions. He’s a fucking cheating ( racist ) goofy tiny dicked cunt.
Beating a dead horse here, but i’m disappointed some on here think we went to anfield for a draw and are proud to say it- “we got what we went for” sorry but that’s a poor attitude in my book. My view is we didn’t play well and just barely deserved a point . Going out to frustrate a team isn’t a sign of progression, i mean whats next, are we going to set out to frustrate Shitty as well? I was a bit miffed at the starting line up at first but at the end of the day, id doesn’t matter who’s selected they all represent the club. Our play shouldn’t be entirely dictated on the personnel on show at any given time. That’s just my 2 cents on it. If the game plan was to frustrate as some put it, that points to issues of balance in the team, i hope Fergie looks at that because while its still early days, he will have to rely on squad rotation to get him a win in some games where a draw will simply not be good enough. Imagine this was in March and we’d just come back from a must win game in Europe with 3 points in the bag with half the team knackered from their exertions and shitty/Chelsea a point ahead or behind breathing down our necks, i doubt anyone’d be happy with what was on show. A lot of work to be done
slim – Rio just being rested for City I would imagine. Post match Rio said he feels in good shape and glad to be playong football again.
Briggsy – Yes mate. Danny Mills is indeed on the wireless.
Cedars – Afternoon there mate. Hope you are well.
Hi all,
@ King Eric,I’m going to say this straight up and exactly as it is.I LUV YOU AS A BROTHER IN THE STRUGGLE.I am not a regular on this blog.U are d reason I am now a citizen of RoM.I am old school.U know,d type of fella who prefers to read facial expressions and body language when relating with people as opposed to whatever I see posted in the virtual world (THE MATRIX in my opinion) of internet blogs.
I guess I have trust issues having had a hard time growing up.
Also,I just can’t stand any criticism of our club of any shade whether it comes frm ABUs or frm supposed ‘fans’.yes,I’m an ULTRA and proud of the fact.
I come frm a society where 90% of ppl worship money hence d preponderance of chelski fans round me.needless to say,I’ve bn involved in frequent fights and I have lost money,valuables,soundness of health and,on one occasion,almost forfeited my life in my flag flying of the utd CAUSE.no regrets.
In conclusion,I may not post as oft as u do yet b assured of this,whatever u post u post also on my behalf cos I approve totally of everything u pin up on RoM’s wall.neva retreat nor surrender ’til d WAR IS WON.stay safe and all d best my friend.thanks.
@RoM,
utd>worldwide sporting community!!!#don’ty’all4getthat!
Agree with Kanchelskis. For some unexplainable reason they turn into a team of top drawer players against us. Even passing in little triangles and so on. Kuyt always looks like Messi against us. If they played like that consistently they would piss the league. Thing is they don’t. We can mock them all we like but at the end of the day, on their own patch, in form they are no mugs.
wayne – Hello mate. Yeah I know what you mean but when we have gone to Anfield with a 4-4-2 we have been ripped apart. Fergie would have rather drawn on Saturday like we did and make sure we win tomorrow and Sunday. The bigger picture. Anyway but for a dive and Giggs breaking the wall we would have pulled it off as regardless of the scoreline Fergie would have introduced Hernandez and Nani late on. Possibly Wayne too.
daemondada – Thanks alot mate. Much appreciated. There are many more posters than me though who post better stuff.
@ Stu
Stu, you are indeed classless rat-munching scum, but joking apart you make a large number of valid and reasonable points, and shouldn’t be savaged or attacked for taking the opportunity to air them on a United dominated thread. Fair play to you for that, indeed you’ve single handedly doubled the amount of regular match going LFC fans I’ve come across who are clearly sensible and not brain washed into instant blind hatred.
As for Saturday you didn’t miss much, our pettily reduced allocation was just okay vocally but seemed largely full of the usual non-singing corporate knobheads and tourists who somehow seem to dominate the ballot these days, while perhaps it was the early kick off, but the Kop’s population of most of North Wales and half of Norway were completely unable to raise themselves, although they did have a lovely big flag which must have been a source of supreme motivation for their 11 representatives out on the pitch.
Just what is it with you Mickeys and flags?
As for the racism issue I’m already bored by it. It’s abhorrent, simple as, and if he did commit the crime he should face severe sanction; perhaps an endless audio loop played at maximum volume of Frank Clark reading his grandchildren bedtime stories….
Though exactly as you say, what did Evra stand to gain by making a false accusation?
King Eric
that’s a relief, starting to get worried there. LOL looks like you got a mega fan- daemondada
slim – Don’t think anyone is proud of the draw but just content. Fergie went out to WIN both against the dippers and the Rentboys last season when there was no need to. Look what happened. I know you are clued up so you will know these games at Anfield are fucking tricky. Always have been, always will be. A point there is a decent enough thing for me. We can’t roll over every team and we won’t. I am absolutely chuffed the young lads weren’t over rawed and gave a good account of themselves like Smalling, Jonny, Jones, Danny , De Gea etc. Much better than the experienced team of seasons past. I have no reason to complain at all. As I said yesterday we lost Edwin, Nev, Scholes, Curly Judas, Brown, and Sheasy and are playing with a very young side. A side who have won 6 and drawn 2 of the 8 games played. The two away games being very difficult. No mate I am more than happy thus far.
@kanchelskis,it’s the fan coming out in me mate,i realise business end it’s a good point that formation just frustrates me,i’m a fan of attacking football and think it is also Utds strength can you remember the last time the team played really well with a lone striker.
Anyway i do understand the reasons still normally adds up to very boring football.I’m more nervous playing that style than when it’s free flowing.CL away games are normally dour events but also nerve wrecking.I know its naive but i’d rather watch 3-2 games with plently of chances,games like that more times Utd are going to win than lose,imo
Giggs jumping out the way was a weird one,figured he’d had a few bob on Gerrard scoring from a free kick.lol
slim – Ha. I know mate. He talks sense though!!!
Where on earth are Scott’s reactions to the game? Fuck me. We don’t even get them anymore.
@King Eric
Spot on. Reckon Fergie fancies City at home way more than he does a trip to Anfield.
If we can win all our home games (but one) again, we’ll prove very hard to finish above. Points dropped at Anfield and the Britannia is nothing to get worried about.
kanchelskis – Cheers mate but I just realised after posting that it was basically your post rehashed!! Great minds and all that.
This has got to be bollocks, why would Fergie include him in the European squad if he was gonna release him? He is fucking 18. What do they expect, he is gonna be bossing games in the premier league? Fucking idiots.
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/878843-arsenal-waiting-to-nab-paul-pogba-from-manchester-united
20th november 2004- one of the most important days in my life, saw my first ever Utd game. Was just going through channels and saw scholes score a great goal against charlton athletic..was a red ever since. My lowest moment came when we lost 3-0 against chelsea which handed them the league and wayne got injured . Best moment has to be the moscow win and also when we won 4-2 against everton at goodison park after being 2-0 down and it practically won us the league!! Being a Red Devil is the best feeling in this world. Sorry for the long post but wanted to share my experience. And special thanks to King Eric, Cedars, Willle, Balaji, Scott the red and all others who make this blog such a great spectacle. Smartalex- where art thou??
Jim – Long post? Its only a paragraph and you have no need to apologise for it mate! Post what the hell you want, its a blog. Thanks for the mention and good to hear your memories.
@King Eric
Yeh, I saw something similar on the Mail (?) site this morning. Load of tripe. His agent’s clearly got someone to blab to the press in an attempt to get a few extra K on his new deal WHEN (not if) it is signed. There’s no way we’d go through all we have to get him from Le Havre, only to release him before he’s even hit 19. Not a chance.
@King Eric hi mate,last year it was Utds 4th game in 13 all away and the team was banged up not sure about previous years but last year for sure caught us at the right time
@King Eric
Thank You, live in India and am 18 so hope to complete the dream of visiting Old Trafford atleast once.
The fact that questions about Suarez follow him like bees to honey is concerning. The fact that main stream press arn’t out there saying this is actually the first time that Evra has ever alleged racism is shocking.
@Stu 10:35 and after
Well said mate. Fans need to say no to racism.
@KE,
u are welcome.
@ RoM,
its not as if I don’t appreciate all the amazing bloggers and their scintillating analyses such as MG,SLIM,NRD,STATESIDE AUSSIE,CEDARS,KOST,BALAJI,ZIBBIE,WAYNE et al yet there are moments in life when u relate with someone and discover that u see urself in that person on so many levels.For me,on this here blog,that fella is KE.and fyi,I’m not gay.still luv y’all as family for ever.
@Jim
If you can get the flight sorted out mate i’ll give you my seat for any game you want my friend and i man that pal.
Clattenburg to officiate the match on Sunday.
Are those two clowns Durham and Gough for real? Gough describing the derby this Sunday as “Clash of the Titans”. Fuck off Darren. Titans? They ain’t in the same league. Durham describes it as a “title decider”. Oh do fuck off Adrian. Its fucking October . They have posted the “Maine Road Massacre” on their shitty little website by all accounts. Oh well done. How about posting pictures of United lifting 12 league titles and Two European Cups in that period you abu scum? I seriously wish I could get paid for talking such piffle on the wireless.
Clattenburg???? thats us fucked then
Plz replace KOST with KOSE for King of Stretford End for my last post.my bad.
Costas – Oh for fuck sake. I hate that cunt. Why the fuck isn’t Webb getting these big games? Mind you he is poor most of the time. We had fucking Marriner on Saturday now Battenburg.
milesplattingred – Great gesture to Jim pal.
“and fyi,I’m not gay.still luv y’all as family for ever.” Ha. Nice one Daemondada!! We know a lad who is though. JAMES!!!!
He’s not the worst of the lot guys. There’s still Martin Atkinson. And Mike Dean. Lets face it. The only half competent referee is Howard Webb. Hopefully Rooney will get on his good side while they discuss hair transplants.
@milesplattingred
U cant imagine what this means to me..thank you so much for this. At the moment impossible because got exams coming but you are a top person
lol @King Eric Durham and Gough are a comedy routine,same as the Brazil show all those cunts say dumb shit just to get people wound up and must be good for ratings.
daemondada
cheers dee, always cool having a passionate RED on ROM, just tkake it easy with the fights or at the least make sure you don’t get knocked out. lol
Who’s Kost?
@jim
Thanks for the mention mate.
@Jim
It’s what we do as United fans mate. We are all brothers ansd sisters together under the Manchester United family. Your very welcome mate and as soon as you think you can get over then just drop us a post on ROM and we’ll get you sorted out for a game or two.
PS, the very best of luck for your exams kid.
Excellent Post sean !
I hope someone is punished for this, if Evra has lied he should be punished but I don’t see what he will gain from lying so there must be truth in accusation.
As Usual racism will go unnoticed, we live in a disgusting world where superiority over your fellow man at whatever means is acceptable.
King Eric
PP landing at Arsenal is a joke, that said i think they’re vulture lurking about. SAF made a comment at the start of the season. Something to the effect that he needs to play the youngsters or their heads could be turned or something to that effect at the time i thought it was a bit weird because i thought he was a player SAF held in high regard and was looking to integrate him into the squad. I hope he gets in soon though, the lad is ready to play i feel and he can be integrated slowly, 110 mins there, 2o mins in a UCL or PL game. No worries with ravel,tunni and other English guys, they’re mancs through and through but you never know with foreigners. That said i read an intrview after one of France’s U-21′s and he sounded no different to our lads, saying the “Mancunian spirit” is ingrained at youth level. Felt chuffed when i saw that
the story includes the quotes i was referring to. i hope he stays. No way SAF would sell to that lot, i hope to fuck not
or woman,Saudi women pretty well live in slavery
Great post!!
@milesplattingred.
Thank you again..this is what family is all about- the United family!! We are the best supporters in the world. Will sure post here when i get a chance to come to England, and thank you regarding the exams.
@willie
My pleasure, always enjoyed your input.
So what did Phil Jones say about Charlie Adams dive??
http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/what-did-phil-jones-say-about-charlie-adam-that-couldnt-be-aired-on-tv-0016785-1?
What has Evra to gain by saying this if its not true? You are kidding right or very naive. He got constantly owned by Suarez and he emptied his frustration via Canal+ There will be no conclusion to this sad affair as no evidence but someone will take an unfair hit on their reputation which of course was the purpose of the exercice. Very simple but not credible. Sorry. Just play football.
jim
Thanks for the mention, always a pleasure fellow red….
This is what Phil Jones said in the censored MUTV post match interview.
Interviewer: what did you think of the controversial free kick awarded that caused the goal, do you think Rio Ferdinand was lucky to stay on?
PJ; Oh, Erm Yeah it was dubious, a big fella who’s almost twice the weight of Rio shouldn’t be dropping like a sack of potatoes like that especially with all the late kicks and barges Adam does in a game, for fucks sake Rio barely touched him, but you have to move on, No I don’t think Rio was lucky to stay on, that swine up front was screaming and bitching for 90 minutes and the ref let the slimy bastard off on a number of occasions.The ref had a fucking clear view but thats the way it goes at Anfield in a intense game.
———————————— Its either that or he said Cunt 19x times —————————
Nice to see my old pal King Eric being a celebrity here today! Well deserved, top poster and red to the bone
Papii
Thanks for making me laugh at least 19 times! Brilliant
Fuck I’m on the long road home, I just drove the first 4 hours of a 9 hour drive. We are taking the long and winding road home through the great river road.
I have read half the posts, as per norm I agree with Willie. A social issue, the UK is at least 25 years behind the US in race relations. I especially when I first came here, racist overtone in some posters, with the help of Smartalex and more the tone has gotten much better here. With the tribal nature in the UK i give a large birth when it comes to names. Like greasy Dago, slimy Italian ect.
Goat said nigger in a funny routine I missed the mark on, apparently it was a Howard teret rant of cunt, nigger thing. Instead of talking it out with me he called me a cunt and went personal. And has made 3 more remarks refereeing to how out of control liberal I am.
I know this Nigger is flat out a fighting word, my teammates in football in collage taught me so much. My last time as an adult I trough hands I was with a friend and 5 ignorant, drunk dudes called him a nigger and it was on like Donkey Kong, with in 30 seconds 4 down and one on the run. He ran this guy down and made him unconscious. We waited for the cops and the EMT’S one guy was really hurt, 3 of the 4 went to the hospital and 2 got surgically repaired. They got in trouble with the law not us.
Hey Zibbie, King Eric and cedars,
Good evening ROM,
i thought King Eric was gay
fuck it, now we goota hunt someone else 
and yeah, fuck that Stevie me 5 finger salute cunt..
i m sure we will erase that too and i hope it happens when the fucker in stevie me is still playing shit football at anfield..
humiliation acts as motivation for the greatest Sir Alex, for the ever faithful devils and the king of football UNITED..
its a pity that scouse scums do the things that motivate us
some news this,
its reported that over 500 million people around the world wacthed the derby game live..
now thats what you call a fucking rivalry…
Sandeep
Evening buddy, just ignore the Liverpool lot… They live to wind us up, five fingers or otherwise they know down inside we are the kings of England…That fact alone and how much grief it causes them is enough to put a smile on my face
Sandeep
I posted something along those lines before, 330 million watched Barca vs Real last year, twice as many watched the Pool v United game in the same season….
Biggest game in world football, no doubt
Cedars – Scumpool?
Anyone who thinks Liverpool are not a big club need their heads examined…. United and Liverpool are the main reason why the PL is so successful today
Pathetic excuses of clubs like City and Chelsea could very well be playing in the second tier, no one would care….
Willie
Scumpool? Hahaha love it
Cedars,
you are right buddy, these two clubs are the pillars of PL financial success..
Fletchtheman and Papii,
good read that about Jonesy on adam..sack of potatoes, the famous words remind me of eminem, it happens to be his birthday today..
Scumpool!! AWESOME!!!
Rio’s back does not like long airplane rides.
I was hoping to see TC play.
Well time for me to leave the Scumpool game behind not happy but content with the point.
Man Utd to get 3 CL points!!!!
The game was seen in some 211 countries, next biggest was Inter VS Milan in 53 countries!!!!!!!
Man Utd some 300,000,000 fans world wide.
time for laughter..
Sky Sports have announced that from next season Man United will be the only English team shown on the Sky Sports channels.
Liverpool will be shown on The History Channel,
Chelsea will be on the African Movie Channel,
Man City will be on The Shopping Channel,
and you’ll have to go over to Cartoon Network to find Arsenal!
I keep being asked to draw up a list of three people that I would love to have dinner with…. I keep changing it except for 2 names Sir Alex and Robbo… The third name keeps changing between Cantona, and De Niro…..
Tough one eh?
Agree with Cedars. Liverpool rivalry made the EPL what it is. Easy to see as the working class nature of the NW is on show at every game.
Clint – Cunt 19x times
None story about Pogba. There’s no way on earth Fergie will let him leave for nothing specially after mentioning him as one of our main prospects.
What are these Pogba stories about, just an agent wanting more money?
OOOOHH 3 diner guests? wow…….
From manutd.com:
SAF: “Rio played very well on Saturday against Liverpool but we have Vidic with us here and I felt it was a good opportunity to give Rio a break. Playing three games in seven days is a lot to ask. We felt it was the right moment to give him a rest.”
“I think Wayne’s ready. When he came on [against Liverpool] I thought he was bubbly, full of energy and enthusiasm. He was desperate to get on, which was good. I think when he started to watch the game he thought: ‘I could be out there.’ I think he’s okay.”
“I don’t think anybody expected him [Rooney] to get three games [for England]. It was silly without being seriously dangerous. It was a slight reaction and to get a three-match ban… I think when you realise he misses all the group games for England, it could mean he won’t be involved at all. As England have experienced in the last few years, it’s not easy to qualify in the major championships and I think that resonated on Wayne’s mind.”
“All the games are important to us. The Premier League is an important tournament to win, just like the Champions League. But I have a big squad and what I tried to do on Saturday was play a team to start the game and then have players on the bench who could win the game. I was ready to make the changes just before Liverpool scored and if they hadn’t scored I think we could have won the game.”
“We spoke to Patrice today and he was adamant he wanted to follow it on [complaint against Luis Suarez]. It’s not an easy one because everybody knows Manchester United and Liverpool have great responsibility. I thought Saturday was great in the stands and both sets of fans deserve praise for that. But Patrice feels very aggrieved by what was said to him and now it rests in the hands of the FA. There are very few examples of racism in England over the years. I don’t think it’s an issue for the game itself. There’s just the odd example and this is what may have surprised Patrice Evra. We don’t want to see it.”
“We’ve watched Galati a few times and I watched the video of them against Benfica. There wasn’t much in the game. Their system is like a lot of systems in Europe – they play with two wide men and one through the middle, one midfielder in the hole… a lot of European teams are playing this way now. In the Benfica game there wasn’t a lot between the teams and Galati were unlucky not to get a draw. We’ve got a good idea about how the game should be played tomorrow and we hope we can get the result we want. It’s difficult to say whether or not it’s a must-win game. I guess it depends on what happens in the other tie. The important thing is for us to win. That solves all the problems.”
“Tomorrow and then Sunday are two important games. We have to progress in the Champions League but we have four or five days to recover for Sunday’s game against Manchester City. The timescales for recovery are perfect for us. Fitness-wise we shouldn’t have any problems in terms of recovery. I don’t think the team I pick tomorrow will have much bearing on Sunday.”
FletchTHEMAN
The North West is the home of football in England, regardless of who one supports its a fact that cannot be denied
and now what the fuck is Barton’s problem, talking shit about Giggsy,
i dont understand to what extent these scums can go to earn dough, pathetic..
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/QPR-skipper-Joey-Barton-takes-aim-at-Ryan-Giggs-John-Terry-and-the-media-at-the-Professional-Players-Federation-national-conference-article814418.html
Terrific, thoughtful, balanced post from Sean, putting everything in context.
Also some excellent contribuitions from ‘Scouser’ Stu. Welcome mate, this is how opposing fans should discuss matters, just like I do with mates who support all sorts of clubs that I ‘hate’. Liverpool supporters like you should always be welcome on this site, Stu. All the best mate. .
Cheers Costas! I don’t feel confident the FA will get to the bottom of this. We live in hope, though.
Everton snap up McFadden,
i have to say its a good move for the toffees under the current circumstances,
i would love them to do well..
slim – Yes mate. I loved that comment from Pogba about Mancunian spirit that you linked last week. He won’t be going anywhere. He is at least getting into the squad. He will be more than happy at present.
Hey. Giles is here. How the devil are you my friend? Great to see you on here. A lot have been saying how much you have been missed.
Giles
All the best to you too my friend…. Gave you a couple of mentions earlier… always miss your posts here…..
Hope all is well with you
Cheers Cedars !!!
Phil Jones said summat about it being a soft free kick and going to ground too easy. Saw the interview but cannot remember his exact words. I really do like Jones. Top lad.
Sandeep – Hello mate. Me gay? Ha. Married mate with a kid due in 8 weeks. Sorry fella!!!
Everton scoop McFadden. James McFadden? He has already played for them hasn’t he?
Cedars – Dinner guests: Al Pacino over De Niro. Pamela Anderson as well.
Before she all that work done! 
King Eric,
hello pal, good that you confirmed you are straight
Sir Giles Oakely (as our buddy Cedars would put it)..
pleasure to be seeing you post here, keep it frequent
Willie,
you are right pal, FA wont even go near the bottom of it, if they will be honest on this, the PL image is up for a toss, already dealing the rooney case, FA wont dig it to the bottom of this racism, plus its a UNITED player who is claiming, do we need to say more?
@willie
You are welcome. They won’t. And they can’t really. It’s Evra’s word vs Suarez’s. No other witnesses by the looks of it. They’ll just try to get the two of them to shake hands to preserve the league’s good image.
On another topic, nice to hear Rooney isn’t davastated anymore!
Between them United and Liverpool have 37 league titles, 8 European cups and countless other trophies….
Would someone with better maths tell me what is the combo of London clubs? Cheers
Hello King Eric,
was just responding to your comkment earlier on gay thing
and yeah the same old james McFadden
Willie
Meant to keep my list ‘sex’ free! Hahaha
De Niro is a fantastic actor, in my top two, but last few years done some shite films. Would take Pacino all day long. De Niro seems a bit of an arrogant bastard and boring.
Costas,
Hello mate, well said on evra thing..
cedars,
“buddy, due to the infinite success achieved by London clubs, a special mathematics has to be evolved in order to arrive at specific number of titles and trophies the londoners have won so far”
sorry for not giving you the required numbers, we apologize for the inconvinience.
- London clubs association..
Hmmm
Pacino over De Niro? Well if Willie and King Eric say so I will go along
Sandeep
@ King Eric
My thoughts exactly as per the lack of reactions.
I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period before posting about the match (and then some) but I was very disappointed with the squad selection. This bollox of Rooney’s “head not being right” is a god damned joke. Why was he even on the bench then? Was there a message to be sent to him? Doubt it. We set out for a draw and got exactly that, thanks in large part to a fine display from our young keeper.
I’ll be the first one to put my arm in the air and give credit where it’s due, Sir Alex Ferguson is the best fucking manager ever, but I can’t sit here and say I wasn’t baffled/annoyed/disheartened etc by the team we sent out. Welbeck as a lone striker? Their defense is/was and will be shit. Put them to the fucking sword for god’s sake.
Maybe it was the horrible hangover, maybe it was the fact it was 7:30am eastern standard time but good christ, our best player should’ve started against those filthy scum. If his head was right to come off the bench, it was right to start the match.
That’s all I’ll say on it. I may be way off from the mean here but I was very disappointed at the starting XI and I’m confident we could’ve gotten a better result had Rooney played 90 minutes.
PS – I love you Chicharito
PSS – Keep eating them donuts David
Willie,
our Cedars is talking about dinner, not the night cap
so strike out the sex sirens
ididnotzeeit
Hello mate,
in all honesty Sir alex and we went for a draw at Anfield, yes thats true, may be coz of poor shows in the last 3 games there..
however the main reason is, Sir Alex rightly considers the Europe game as very much crucial, rightly so.
anything other than a win in Romania might haunt us, its better to take a fresh team there..
with the kind of midfield and game plan we had for Anfield, we were sure we would get a draw, but then shit happened through adam and Giggsy..
thats my opinion anyway..
Sandeep – Lol. Nothing wrong with a night cap.
@ Sandeep
Good day Sir
I know, I know. Competing on many fronts, long season, a point at Anfield is a point well earned, etc. I’m just finally venting my frustration at the set up. We agree then, we went for a point hoping to earn something more. Didn’t happen, aw shucks, get’em next time and see where the table lies in March.
These are all of the thoughts that were trying to make their way through a head clouded with Guiness and Jager on a very fucking early Saturday morning. I’ve said my peace and ultimately have to agree with every decision Lord Ferguson makes because, well, he’s right 99% of the time.
Giggsy, seriously though mate? I’ll have to check the tale of the tape but with a brainfart like that, I’d be almost certain he was there shutting down the local wattering hole with myself and my mates Friday evening….well, Saturday morning
Just something to get off my chest. I was pissed with the team sheet. Nuff said. It just chaffs my sack to have to look at that joke of a “project” sitting top of the table for a week.
Sandeep – Imo Fergie did the right thing. A point at Anfield when they have their cupfinal is a good achievement and I don’t care how average they are. They always play there best game of the season against us.
We have a crucial game midweek like you said and we need 3 points maybe make a statement in that group. Then it’s all about bragging rights and 3 points over fuckin berties.
King Eric
Fuck me, you’re gonna be a dad?!! congrats mate, chuffed to bits, hell almost feel proud and its not even my kid, beaming from ear to ear. Top, top news mate, congrats again
ididnotzeeit
i know mate where you coming from and i totally understand your frustration..
Zelh,
hello pal, rightly said, pools always play their best game of the season against us, especially in the last 5-6 occassions..
it was our choice, to lose too much of enrgy or go with a game plan and i have to say we did the right thing by going with a game plan..
i know i m not happy coz we dint get 3 points like all of you, but under the circumstances and a goal down with 15 mins to go Anfield, i would take that bloody 1 point on any day..
Cheers mate
I don’t know if anyone has noticed but according to BBC Evra is going to pursue the allegations.
Although I didn’t believe it for one minute, the notion that he invented the allegations has surely passed. He has consulted Sir Alex Ferguson and at some stage the exact words is bound to have come up.
So nothing can have been misconstrued.
I’m pretty convinced that Suarez is guilty now.
yay, new thread alert, patrick fucking barclay on twitter talking bollox
a tribute to the red devil Jack marshall..
sorry if posted earlier,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VmaNvAtRDw
RIP Jack, thanks for the short memories that live long..
Agree entirely with this. As predicted it has just descended into a slanging match on social media sites based on what team you support. What makes me laugh is how every fan claims to know all about their said idols just because they play for their team.
I’ve heard garbage such as “Suarez would never do such a thing. Its not in his nature” – and how would you know this then? Oh yes it’s because he plays for Liverpool.
I feel the FA will properly play a lack of evidence card cos they might actually have to make a big decision for once. It’ll get swept under the carpet. If that was the case then morons amongst us will immediately claim that Evra must have been lying rather than the simple fact there was no audio to prove it.
More guilty now that he wants to pursue, please a sense of reality, a backtrack would have had huge implications on Evra’s integrity if he didn’t pursue, remember Man Utd are supporting him but not helping him, Evra did say television replay would help him, we now know this is not the case, following it up will end up being not proven and will always be over Suarez which is sad but what can he do. It’s a pick side situation but evidence looks way more kindly too Suarez like it or not.
So if Suerez is guilty and i’m sure if you look at you tube at the evidence you dont need to be a lip reader to sadly understand what Suerez is saying and on more than 1 occasion. Then what is gonna happen to him? How can Liverpool stand by such a player. What sort of a club stands by such disgraceful comments. How can he play in the premiership again. He would be a branded Racist. Will the police get involved. Will the FA really make a point of this and prove they stand by there RESPECT campagne. Racism needs to be booted out of football and if Suerez is seen to be proven guilty will the FA and Liverpool have the balls to boot him out. bans and fines dont work for this one. If a fan is found guilty he is banned for life and arrested and put on the racism list. Even jailed. If Suerez gets away with this what message is football sending out to the world.
Brilliant article by Sean O’Sullivan. It’s outrageous that a Liverpool FC official journalist would put out this slanderous, libellous myth about Patrice Evra.
So here are the facts: Liverpool FC are putting out lies to discredit Patrice Evra in an attempt to belittle his very serious allegations that one of their players repeatedly racially abused him. CLASSY!
Brett1985 – well Patrice Evra is not a liar and contrary to a myth that is doing the rounds – a myth apparently started by a journalist who is on the payroll of Liverpool FC – he has NEVER made such accusations about another player before.
Why would Evra make up such a thing? He has received worse physical treatment than that which he got from Suarez on Saturday many times in the past (from the likes of Kevin Davies, for example) but not once has he responded by levelling accusations of racist abuse at any of his opponents.
I hope other players who have been subjected to racial abuse from Suarez step forward and speak out against him.
What i find funny is that Liverpool are calling for evra to be investigated if this is proved wrong. LOL. what exactly are they investigating. If evra was wrong then he lied and then punishment can be handed out but what exactly are they investigating? Do they think United put him up to this? LMAO. plus how on earth would evra just come out and say stuff like that if did not hear suarez call him that? suarez is not the first player that evra has had a battle with so why on earth would he evra be pursuing a vendetta? Some pple can be seriously deranged in the brain.
Suarez ran rings round Evra and that led to frustration which led to a yellow card.
The accusation was just down to frustration after being carded. If it was true why didnt he complain at the time. Poor loser Evra
Jealous of Jim now, atleast l was able to see the lads the past summer rip the barca apart
solid from stu, a pool fan with sense.
Brilliant article Scott. Actualli in Scotland their laws are a little different to our country. I a court of law we in this country have only two findings guilty and innocent where as in Sc otland they have three. Guilty, innoecent and the third not proven. Not proven means as it implies a person may be guilty but it has not been proved. Bearing in mind Kenny Dalglish is Scottish I find it unbelievable that he does not even know the laws of his own country. Perhaps Dalglish would be better advised attending reading lessons and at least learn what this term not proven means. But as is typical of this pathetic club they suffer from an over inflated sense of their own importance. They are without doubt the most irresponsible club in world football.
hellothere
Don’t talk to me about reality whenever you are asking me to entertain the possibility that Evra has fabricated this whole incident out of nothing.
A prolonged argument on the pitch, a talking to by the ref, a ‘hand of friendship’ from Suarez rejected abruptly by Evra. Arguments that continued for several minutes between Kuyt, Suarez and Evra before Evra was booked. Consultation between Ferguson and Evra after the game. Escalating the incident by going to the referee to complain about a racist remark. Repeating the allegation in the media on canal plus. The following day Ferguson affirming that Evra will be pursuing the matter.
The last point is especially salient. Our lawyers are bound to have looked into the incident. Ferguson is bound to have taken full stock of the situation. This isn’t just on Evra now. Everyone has bought into this, everyone has to be sure.
If Evra made this up from the beginning it is just one crazy conspiracy theory. Is that reality?
To infer that Evra is continuing down this path to cover up a lie is by now ludicrous.
The fact that in the cold light of day Evra, Ferguson, the club, the referee and the football association are all taking this seriously says a lot.
And it completely eliminates the prospect of misconstruction or misunderstanding. Everyone at Manchester United now knows and I’m guessing that it is going to have to have been the ‘n’ word that was used.
The only question is now one of proof.
And by the way proof is needed under the regulations of the football association but not so much in my eyes.
First of all I tend to believe Evra not just because I am a united fan but based on the facts that I outlined above.
Second the football association can come up with all manner of strange decisions regardless of the evidence in a case. I can’t say I’ve respected a number of their judgments against united and it would be inconsistent of me to put stock in any of their findings. So it really doesn’t matter to me if we have proof or not.
Based on the circumstancial evidence I’ve all the proof I need. I’m not that concerned what Liverpool fans make of it. Evra will get on with his career regardless and if Suarez ends up getting a ban which I imagine will be 5 or so matches at worst then so be it.
In reality he should probably be sacked for racist remarks but he is indespensible so it isn’t going to happen.
Slim. Thanks a lot mate. Yeah its a boy as well. Already got home and away united babygrows! Thanks again pal. Much appreciated fella.
Brett. Spot on pal.
Fred @ 21:14 – Well said mate. Spot on.
Willirednut @ 13:05 – spot on, and this looks like the ‘event’ to expose it. I can’t see Evra lying. Over a poxy draw at Anfield with our fixture list? Lets have an investigation, bearing in mind the pervious hes put up with regarding racism. RoM reads said it all mate.
http://soccerlens.com/the-fas-evra-report-the-united-perspective/19035/
Good evening Giles!
King Eric, agreed on the lack of Reaction threads. After reading the papers and watching reactions on TV I like to get an alternative view on RoM. Im sure its the same for untold numbers around the world so I am a bit miffed with the reduction of that section myself mate.
dannysoya says:
What i find funny is that Liverpool are calling for evra to be investigated if this is proved wrong. LOL. what exactly are they investigating. If evra was wrong then he lied and then punishment can be handed out but what exactly are they investigating? Do they think United put him up to this? LMAO.
Lmao, thats^ hilarious mate
@Denise William – very well put. Instead of agreeing to cooperate to find the truth, LFC are effectively implying guilt by speaking in terms of what can be proved. United would simply state “we believe our player is innocent and we will await the official findings”, and that would be the end of it. But LFC seem foolish enough to openly state “you can’t prove our player is guilty, and if we can prove that Evra’s claim is groundless he must be severely punished”. Notwithstanding the investigation, that kinda says it all really at this stage.
fair comment, said what the majority of liverpool, man united and certainly neutral fans. I ask this though, do any of you united fans find it odd that there has been 3 accusations of racism INVOLVING Evra. When i cannot recall any others with any other player in the premiership currently. The figures do not add up?
What??? – think about what you’re saying.
Both clubs are simply backing their own players – that’s all there is to it.
Read any more into than that and you’ll just make yourself even dizzier.
Shouldn’t we as fans be backing Evra by circulating that clip that the FA apparently removed that shows Shithead mouthing the N word to Evra?
Where is the clip and GIF? We need to get busy and send it everywhere. How do we know the FA removed it and if so why????
I am not happy it was removed if it was evidence, and if it wasn’t, why remove it? Saw Evra in pics on official site he looks stoney faced and stressed, not his usual smiley self. Not happy about this. I think we can err on Evra’s side legitimately, its called character analysis. Suarez has previous of abuse and assault and biting. Evra has never taken this step.
Suarez claims that he is like a little child who plays for fun and never creates conflict??????
Tell that to Ghana who were cheated in the world cup by his outrageous penalty handball.
One could argue that Evra’s behaviour at the world cup was far worse than Suarez’s, couldn’t they?
Really good read.
Suarez will never admit it and will be let off due to lack of proof. Evra won’t win and will be branded a cheat and a liar. Sadly the victims in these cases never come out of these situations for the better.
Hi all,
I blv evra.I suspect suarez.the FA is corrupt.utd had better drop the charges.we’ll get them later somehow.these things have a way of evening themselves out.nothing is hidden under the sun.
An excellent and balanced piece. Well done.
My thoughts are here:
http://leftbackinthechangingroom.blogspot.com/2011/10/suarez-and-evra.html
Obviously, I’m writing from an LFC perspective (don’t shoot me…) but I’m always grateful for comments and thoughts from MUFC fans and have found some articles well received at ROM.
I should note that this is likely to end well for neither player. If, as is likely, this cannot be proven – Suarez walks away looking guilty (people will not assume presumption of innocence) whilst Evra walks away looking like someone who makes these claims up.
Anyway, I’ve aimed for balance in the piece and I hope I’ve achieved it. Let me know etc.
RCM
Great piece.
I’ll ….drink a drink to Eric the King, the King, he’s gonna be a Dad, a Dad! Congratulations my friend, I send all good wishes for a safe delivery and a lovely Bouncing Babe!
Thanks also King Eric and Cedars, Sandeep and What??? for greetings and kind thoughts. Having a bit of a rough patch recently to be honest. Nothing too sinister, just side -effects of treatment. Hope to have something longer written soon, having promised it around a month ago!
@Joe – players are multi million pound investments so obviously both clubs are protecting their assets, but the way Liverpool have reacted shows a big lack of class. If you don’t already know, what a club (or any professional for that matter) should do when falsely accused is state your innocence and agree to fully co-operate with all and any investigation. Then you STFU and keep your head down until the official findings are released. There is always an appeal. Isn’t that the stance you’d expected from any “big club”?
Ask me, all that other bollocks coming from LFC just shows a lack of class on your clubs behalf mate. By the time your clubs threat made the headlines, Evra hadn’t even requested an investigation yet, so attempting to scare him into changing his initial allegation is worthy of condemnation in itself. Thats the way I see it and understandably you probably see it differently? If so you are entitled to your vantage point mate, wherever that may be, but in all honesty I actually thought your club was ABOVE threatening our player before this. Not any more.
What exactly is the point in your lot smiling with the Kick Racism Out of Football brigade when their veiled threats to Evra go against everything that organisation stands for? Sir Alex hasn’t spoken about possible punishments for the accused, has he? No he hasn’t, so how pathetic do Liverpool look speaking out about punishments for the alleged VICTIM before the investigation even starts? I’d be on here criticising my Club if we acted how you acted, and thats the truth, so it says alot about those Liverpool supporters who claim to see nothing wrong with LFC’s reaction whatsoever.
Giles Oakley – Thank you very much my friend. Much appreciated. As I said yesterday , great to see you on here, and hope your health is good. Take care Giles.
Giles – Sorry just read the rest of your post. Sorry to hear you have been having a rough patch. You can rest assured everyone on here is thinking of you. As I said, take care mate.
Never played the race card?
Have a look here mate, first link coming up on Google.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/793670/ce/uk/&cc=5739?ver=global
Giles, wish you all the best mate! Looking forward to your contribution as usual.
Big game tonight!
What??? – like I said, you’re reading way too much into it.
Liverpool are simply backing their player. Suarez has categorically denied Evra’s allegations so Liverpool are treating the allegations with the contempt they deserve. To do otherwise could undermine Suarez’s denial or be construed as an admission of guilt.
If it was Rooney accused The FA would have him by his balls
Given that Suarez is a white Uruguayan, who speaks Spanish, it is highly likely, that in a disagreement with Evra, he called him a Negro, which in Spanish translates as Black. Given his native tongue is Spanish there is almost zero chance that he called Evra a N***er, as is being reported in England.
I am English, but live in Argentina now, and the word “negro” is used to describe a way of behaving, the equivalent in English of calling someone a “chav” for instance. It would be aimed at black people, but also, and more commonly at people with slightly darker skin to typically white, such as Tevez, or Aguero, who in Argentina, are considered “negro’s.”
This is not to say that in my opinion this is a racist slur of sorts, and certainly in Europe, is not acceptable, but I am merely trying to explain the culture of South Americans here.
I play football here quite regularly, and if you foul someone, its likely they will say something like “sos una negro mierda” which translates directly as “you are a black shit.” I have even had this said to me, and I am as pale as Casper the Ghost.
Before I get hammered, I’m in no way trying to excuse it, and I regularly fall out with people here for using such a term, but it is something that is inherent in society in Argentina, a society which is very close to that in Uruguay, and I am just giving my opinion on what is likely to have been said.
North Stand Tier 2
What you say is interesting but where the law is concerned there is a saying that ‘ Ignorance is no excuse.’ The fact that something is socially acceptable in Argentina is equally- no excuse if the same words are used over here.
It is often the case that people will accidently slip into racist remarks. Take Ron Atkinson for example. I don’t actually think he is racist. Unfortunately for these people (or perhaps fortunately) once you use such language that is it, regardless of what you actually meant.
Black this, negro that, nigger the other. They are all racist terms when accompanied by other unequivocal and abusive language.
@brett
Dont get me wrong, the social acceptance for such phrases in South America is more down to the ignorance of a nation than anything else, I’m merely trying to look at it in context taking into account who Suarez is, where he is from, and how he will have been brought up.
Never mind the FA and PL, racism is an offence under English and Welsh law, this matter should be handled by the police, that way there will be a proper investigation leading to proper sanctions if there is a case to answer.
BUTCH
@Joe 13:42 – Ok, I understand you now. I think? So you’re saying that Liverpool were right to threaten Evra with the “contempt” he “deserves”, because if LFC didn’t it would be “construed as an admission of guilt”. But to who? The knuckle dragging portion of supporters who follow your Club? Thats completely arse-backwards mate, but its all good, your Kenny inspired input is most certainly welcome on RoM. We all need a laugh, and its always interesting to hear views diametrically opposed to your own. We’ll agree to disagree on this one tho aye?
@North Stand Tier 2 – good point about different tolerance in different countries. In any language the context a word is used in is the most important thing, not the word itself. So calling a black person “black”, or a Jewish person a “Jew” is fine, but saying the exact same words to a black or Jewish person in a derogatory or threatening manner becomes racist.
Even though its not English, when the word “negra” is used in a negative context many people hold it in the exact same light as “nigger”. Both words share the same bloody history, both specifically target people of African ancestry, and both originate from the latin word “niger”, which funnily enough was never used as an insult by the Romans. Seeing as the very idea of black inferiority is modern, racism towards black people is very easy to trace and understand. Which brings us nicely to our pal Paddy…
The difference between “negra” and “nigger” is irrelevant to anybody who understands the history. Evra seems a clued up chap, he speaks 5 languages after all – 6 if you include learning Korean from Park. Im pretty sure he’s sufficiently qualified to play in any league in the world and know when he’s being called a “nigger”, regardless of the language being used. But spot on about ignorance being the main factor in South American racism, they haven’t fully addressed the prejudices and inequalities from colonialism just yet. Give it another 10 years though… hell, give it the next 12 months!
Brett1985 @ 18:44 – Spot on mate
Paul Parker – it could be constured as an admission of guilt to the many who are already assuming guilt.
What is so hard to understand? Suarez has a reputation that precedes him. That doesn’t make him a racist. Nor does Evra’s accusation.
The only thing that does is evidence. We’ve yet to see a shread of that yet but most people I’ve spoken to don’t need to see it, apparently.
Unfortunately, either Suarez is racist or Evra is a liar. If it’s impossible to prove either, the only way to limit damage and clear any names is to smear the other.
It’s PR for kids, basically.
Agree with most of your comments. However with all the cameras and microphones at Anfield on Saturday I do feel that if anything has been said it will have been picked up. Conversely, if nothing is found to have been said than we can also conclude that Evra is indeed a lying lowlife.
Fantastic article! Really enjoyed reading this, but I now have the urge to watch 12 Angry Men again…
I’m sorry, but while it’s true that it’s impossible to prove a negative, it’s not as if Evra accused Suarez of saying the word once or twice – which could be missed by the 20 odd cameras at various angles. He accused him of saying it at least TEN TIMES. It stretches credulity to breaking point to believe that cameras wouldn’t have caught at one of those incidents.
To borrow from your courtroom drama analogy, you may not be able to prove this beyond ANY doubt, but it can certainly be proved beyond REASONABLE doubt.
If Evra claimed not to hear the remark the groundsman made then why did he get into a fight with him?
Also, I’m not saying they’re wrong, necessarily, but source your quotes, please.
So Evra, i hear finnan said something terrible about you
Evra: “no comment”
to me thats as good as making the accusation yourself. why couldnt he just deny it?
@ Jerry…do me a favor and try something. look into a mirror and say the n-word to yourself as you would say any other word. It’s not so easy to make out what’s being just based on your lips, is it?
And I’ll assume you don’t have the same giant buckteeth that Suarez does. That makes it even tougher to even guess what he’s saying.
The ‘TEN TIMES’ is probably also just the estimate of an enraged man (Evra clearly was before any of us even knew about this allegation). I doubt he was keeping count and just used a round number.
Can I please remind people that Patrice has not actually said (deliberately ?) what racist word was used against him! your all assuming nigger, what if the word used was frog would you all have the same reaction ????
As a Liverpool fan, it’s nice to see a United fan write a very unbiased account of things. Of course fans on both sides will believe their player is the innocent party. And unfortunately, we may never find out if one or the other is guilty.
I think if either one is proven (which is almost impossible) then they deserve punishment as neither behavior is acceptable for professionals at this level.
To be honest, I find the whole thing odd from both sides. For starters, why would an Uruguayan, who barely speaks English, use a very English word to describe someone racially? If anything in the heat of the moment he would say his racist remark in Spanish.
Strange fact #2, if this word was said so many times (10 from the reports I read), and the ref was right there, why didn’t he hear it? And if he did, why was nothing done then? Why was nothing mentioned by either side until after the game?
I think if anything, this may have been a case of lost in translation. Despite being a Liverpool fan and of course hating MUFC with all my being, that doesn’t mean I in any way think Evra is lying or some kind of abhorrent person, just as I don’t think that of Suarez. I would find it to be a shame if either of them are found guilty because I know of Suarez to be a very nice happy guy, and Evra to be a very committed professional.
But most importantly what is sad is that no matter what, fans will think either Suarez is racist and Evra is a liar, and both are probably not true.
As this post suggests, I would urge fans on both sides to not jump to conclusions and at the end of the day to move on. It’s a little disappointing that a lot of the comments on here are the exact opposite of what the post is all about by being so nasty and filled with hate. But thanks to the writer for being honest and objective.
@shabadu84
Tell that to Steve Finnan who was accused by a lip reader in the crowd who had one line of site and a split second to see one incident. With video footage from a couple of dozen cameras all around the ground combined with a trained lip reader, it should be easy to prove Evra’s claims of multiple incidents.
Also, if you heed to exaggerate, even in anger, it rather undermines the credibility of your claims.
If Evra told the French media that Suarez directed the ‘n’ word at him at least ten times, that’s what he’ll have to say in his statement otherwise it’s slanderous.
But without evidence of Suarez saying it even once, it could give substance to a malicious allegation case against Evra or at least make his allegation against Suarez seem less credible.
I really hope you lot are just pretending to be thick as shit and this is just a wind up….
1) When Phelan reported the racism, it became a matter for the FA regardless of what Evra wanted. When he was asked by the FA what he heard, he said he heard nothing. His reaction was more to do with the aggressive groundstaff at Chelsea “giving it the big’n”, but he did not hear what was said. There was no way Evra could stop that investigation into racism, because he was never a witness to it.
2) Same thing with Finnan. At the time of the alleged offence, Evra was on the pitch winning the free kick for Rio’s last minute winning goal, I thought the Scouse of all people would remember that? You can’t hear SHIT on the pitch, so how was Evra supposed to hear a conversation allegedly taking place on the Liverpool bench? It was deaf United supporters who lip-read the words and presented the evidence to the FA. The Finnan claim had precisely FUCK ALL to do with Evra, because it was a complaint from a member of the public. There was nothing Evra could say to stop the investigation, as he was never a witness to it.
As for you lot talking about slander against Evra – calm down, theres an investigation on the way. Funnily enough, right now the only cast iron slander is the repeated claim that Evra has made accusations of racism before. He HASN’T, and the widely reported lie that he has constitutes slander. Want proof? The papers have got all you dumb fucks repeating it for starers haven’t they? The lie has been spread to the point of becoming true for thick fucks like you. Instead of thinking for yourselves I guess its easier to just swallow what Murdoch and the rest of the press tell you right?
As for LFC’s attempts to smear Evra (Joe @ 23:51 Oct 18) that just shows what kind of filthy scum run Anfield club nowadays. PR for Cunts more like. Also, out of interest, I wonder what the Far East market makes of these scandals? LFC want to follow United’s footsteps abroad, and also want a bigger share of TV money to boot… but shouldn’t Liverpool just concentrate on getting back into Europe first? Just a suggestion mind, you don’t wanna run before you walk do you?
I mean, 1989-90 was a fucking long time ago fellas. Good luck finishing in fourth this year.
I guess you’ve forgotten when Mike Phelan was branded ‘unimpressive and unreliable’ and of his testimony containing ‘major inconsistencies’ when he wrongly accused Chelsea ground staff of racism?
I guess Alex Ferguson’s right hand man doing that was pretty ‘sinister’ too, as the second most senior employee of MUFC, right?
Remind me again, what was the consensus on this amongst the RoM staff?
———
Manchester United assistant boss Mike Phelan has been branded as unimpressive and unreliable by a Football Association disciplinary panel.
Phelan gave evidence to the panel earlier this month in a case that saw left-back Patrice Evra handed a four-match ban for his part in a post-match brawl with Chelsea groundstaff including Sam Bethell at Stamford Bridge last spring.
In his case notes, panel chairman Nicholas Stewart QC outlined major inconsistencies in the two written accounts submitted by Phelan prior to verbally giving evidence, and the panel’s findings read: “Even before the hearing we did not feel able to place strong reliance on this evidence. Mike Phelan did not impress us.”
The report claimed that if Phelan and then goalkeeping coach Richard Hartis had heard the comments Bethell was alleged to have made, it was implausible no-one else, specifically two black members of the Chelsea groundstaff close to the scene, would not have heard them and reported them.
“Aspects of this evidence raise questions about the reliability of their claims,” the report states.
It is a damning verdict, only increased by the assessment of Evra’s conduct which is said to be “unnecessary and gratuitously aggressive” as a result of a “far-fetched” view of a confrontation between United fitness coach Tony Strudwick and Jason Griffin, Chelsea’s head groundsman.
link
@ Paul Parker – Go to bed mate.
Excellent campaign you’re running there Joe, Jay, Jerry! Very convincing.
Haha, to me, to you, to me, to you.
@ Paul Parker – what campaign?
In the interests of having an adult discussion rather than having to resort to calling each other cunts etc, i’ll try and reason with you one last time.
Take off your Manc hat for a second and be pragmatic. Just because you believe Evra’s allegation to be true doesn’t mean anybody else should. Not before it is proven.
Both clubs are behaving entirely properly by supporting their own player.
And both clubs will be aware how important PR is because if the Premier League can’t charge either player, the public will. The public will decide for themselves whether Suarez is racist or Evra is a liar and how that reflects on their respective clubs.
I have to give credit to Sean O’Sullivan for setting the record straight. I don’t mind admitting I assumed the ‘race card’ reports to be true until I stumbled across this blog. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to Evra’s case. It stands to reason that the press and the public will draw parallels between previous racial abuse cases involving Evra – whether he made the allegations or not.
@Joe – save your time mate, you can’t “reason” with me on this topic because I utterly disagree with your lame justification of LFC’s crude smear campaign against Evra.
For some reason you assume any club would act in the same way as yours, but thats an ill-informed conclusion to reach. When it comes to allegations against our club, United do not target people, players or clubs in the name of “damage limitation”. That would be beneath us.
You only have to look at Owen Hargreaves’ very recent allegations for proof.
Hargreaves more or less accused the United fitness staff of malpractice, and thats a very serious allegation that could impact future signings. But nevertheless, United showed class throughout the media frenzy and didn’t resort to smear campaigns once.
With that in mind, you can’t attempt to equate LFC with MUFC and then expect people to accept your logic. Our clubs are two different breeds pal. You’ve already admitted that LFC have indeed targeted Evra, fair play, but don’t get giddy and assume that United would do the same.
More to the point, this really isn’t a United v LFC thing. I know LFC supporters who are very uneasy with the lies being spread about Evra. Sure, defend your player, but this smear campaign is pathetic. Even you’ve admitted that you believed the lies yourself until you came to THIS website.
Must say you seem ok with it all, but me personally I’d be livid if RoM put a battery in my back and sent me off spreading disinformation against a completely innocent man. You should reveal which website wound you up like a little toy solider and sent you out to fight the “good fight”.
But eitherway, congrats on your ascent from ignorance pal, I just hope you share the enlightenment you’ve gleaned from RoM back wherever you came from – and by that I mean, I hope you enlighten those still in the dark back on whatever website you contracted those lies from.
And funnily enough, yes, any publisher who spreads lies worldwide without having the courtesy of verifying the veracity of the allegations is indeed a Cunt…. a Cunt of the highest fucking order no less. And having said that, we haven’t called each other cunts once during this adult conversation, so why does that prospect suddenly concern you? Why did you imply in your post @ 15:00 that im on the verge of verbally attacking you?
You’re not gonna accuse me of “having prior” are you? You filthy Cunt! Lmao.
(that was a joke by the way^) Look we’re never gonna agree on this, and the case is now in the white washed hands of the FA. So personally im done with it for now. Evra has my full backing. End of.
More to the point, United have the biggest game of our season thus far this weekend, and we’re hopefull of regaining top as reigning 19 times champions, so erm, yeah, its been fun Joe, Jay and Jerry – good luck v Norwich in your quest for fourth aye? And I truly mean that, honestly.
@ Paul Parker – The one and only reason I can’t reason with you is because you are incapable of viewing the situation objectively.
I did try. No hard feelings though mate.
none taken fella.
Very nice to read a pretty much unbiased account. Fact of the matter is it, it turns out, that Evra actually accused the official in the match of calling a foul against him “because I’m black.” So he may not have ever accused anyone of racism in the past but on the day he accused 2 people of racism seperately. Further evidence has also made clear that Evra called Suarez ..”you South American.” which falls under the same FA charge as Suarez’s charge…a reference to the ETHNIC ORIGIN/race of player…Now..after reading many of the comments here I have to laugh at the accusations leveled at Liverpool fans for being so biased…the comments in this thread are so clearly biased it’s unbelieveable and the vitriol against Suarez is mindblowing. Wow..you guys are really affected by this guy!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=negrita
We’re not all English or French twats
Shame on him, he is the lowest of the low. Shame on him!
best article i’ve read in a while.
As a die-hard Liverpool supporter, I’ve stumble on your article through Google. I’m what most would call an old-school fan. Meaning I love my club, would support and defend them to the end…except the indefensible. Your article is spot-on and for me, the demonisation of Evra has a nasty under current to it. Maybe Suarez is not racist ( I believe he is not ) but I think the vitriol aimed at Evra is, ironically enough, border-line racist. Football merely reflects the current trends in society at large and the UK’s lurch to the right means that even if you’re caught wearing a Nazi uniform, attending an EDL march and carrying a Golly-wog, any criticism is met with the now worryingly predictable response of “this is Political Correctness gone mad!”. Unfortunately, we in this country must take a shared responsibility in creating this climate where even legitimate concerns over bigotry are met with the “political correctness” card by an ever growing right wing mob that is being fuelled by the media, politicians and a flagging economy.
Thanks for the article.
Although fair, this is very one-sided in its defence of short fused black players who have a history of being melodramatic. How many of you branded John Terry a racist, just because he was (a) a Chelsea player and (b) it was Rio’s little brother? He was found innocent and Anton was found to have made unsubstantiated claims – in other words, he played the race card. He lost the England captaincy on account of a mediocre footballer trying to get the upper hand by, rather than playing football, making up lies on pitch. Anton Ferdinand is a dickhead, as is his brother who, having played beside Terry in the England set up for years, should have told Anton to shut the fuck up with his ridiculous accusations rather than starting to mouth off himself about why he thought not getting into the Euro squad was for any other reason besides the fact he was old, out of form, unable to play every 3 days and complacent. I understand the article was written with the intent of saying players should be able to come out and say they feel they’ve been racially abused without people responding angrily to the claim, as the Liverpool fans did vehemently, but this shouldn’t be an opportunity for non-white players who are getting outplayed on the night to be able to make things up that have severe consequences upon those that are getting accused. Honestly, although Suarez was fully deserving of his punishment and Evra was not to be blamed, there should be equal punishment for those who will use the taboo subject of racism to their advantage and accuse anybody and everybody of it if it seems advantageous to them. The FA wouldn’t dare do that though, which is why we’re going to have another couple of awkward Chelsea- QPR clashes this season to go alongside the United- Liverpool awkwardness