Following United, the expectation is our lads will create at least five clear cut chances and at the very least, one will get put in the back of the net.
At Anfield yesterday this wasn’t the case but the frustration we feel through the hangovers today could have been avoided if several things had been done differently.
1. The referee
If United had played in the below par fashion that we did yesterday but Andre Marriner got the crucial decisions right, we would be talking about our well deserved point.
With half an hour played at 0-0, Michael Carrick burst in to the box and Jamie Carragher clattered in to him. Whilst Carragher touched the ball, he didn’t win it. The ball remained directly in front of Carrick and how this two footed challenge which floored our player has been hailed as a legal tackle is beyond me. He took the player but he didn’t take the ball. Penalty. United 1-0 up after half an hour? Yes please.
Lucas Leiva made nine fouls in the game, enough to earn two yellow cards, but didn’t even get booked. On 32 minutes Marriner had a word with the player after he fouled Carrick, as if warning him that was his last chance. Seven minutes later, he pulled down Evra at the half-way line, which was when the first yellow card should have been shown. Ten minutes after the restart Lucas made a cynical foul on Rooney when stepping across him just outside the box. At least two bookable challenges there but he went all game escaping a yellow, before playing the ball in to Ngog that made it 2-0, a ball that never would have been played had Lucas been rightly sent off.
With three minutes of normal time remaining Michael Owen had the perfect chance to shut the scousers up as he raced past Liverpool’s back line thanks to a superb pass from Rooney. Carragher hauled Owen to the ground, making no attempt to play the ball, in a similar fashion to Nemanja Vidic on Steven Gerrard last season and Old Trafford which saw him red-carded. Carragher, who should have seen at least a yellow card for the foul he made on Carrick in the box during the first half, was shown just a yellow card for his professional foul. This should have been a straight red if the referee was to follow the rules of the game, but regardless, should have been his second yellow. Whether Carragher was sent off or not though, what we lost was the goalscoring opportunity, something no free-kick or red card would replace, but at least it would even the score slightly. As it was, the advantage remained ridiculously one-sided in Liverpool’s favour.
Based on our performances, we didn’t do enough to win the match yesterday. But had the referee performed it wouldn’t have mattered. Some days you score four goals and it doesn’t matter that the referee misses the offsides, the penalties and the fouls. Other days you need the referees to get the big calls right to ensure the right result occurs. Based on Marriner’s performance, he should not be refereeing a Premiership match next weekend – there’s too much at stake to allow a bottler in charge of the biggest games.
2. Darren Fletcher
Before Sunday, I polled readers of RoM to see which player we saw as being most vital to us getting a result at Anfield, given that our four best performing players, Darren Fletcher, Patrice Evra, Ryan Giggs and Wayne Rooney, had all missed the midweek game through injury. Whilst Rooney has been long hailed as our most important player, it wasn’t much of a surprise when Fletch came out on top of the poll given the difference we’d already seen in our team when Darren wasn’t playing. He had been a warrior through our Champions League campaign last season and our man of the match when we destroyed Arsenal at the Emirates in the semi-final. Yet when playing against a side who plays similar football to Arsenal in the final, we played a completely different game without the wrongly suspended Fletcher.
We were certainly missing a Fletcher type player in our midfield yesterday. Given the fact Lucas was afforded so many fouls without a yellow card, this would have been an ideal game for Fletcher, who makes so many hard challenges that tend to rub most referees up the wrong way. Liverpool had a man in the middle of the park fouling left, right and centre so it would have been good to have a man of our own who could put the opposition under that kind of pressure, as well as winding them up.
With Owen Hargreaves now six weeks away, we can look forward to having more grit and determination in our midfield. For now though, we need Fletcher back, desperately.
3. The midfield selection
I know it’s easy to point to team selection after the game has been played but even before the match I thought we had to have Anderson playing if Fletcher wasn’t going to make it. For these tough games we need a battler in the centre of the park and that’s something neither Michael Carrick nor Paul Scholes can offer us. Giggs is an important inclusion but I do wonder why Ferguson opted to play him down the left wing, a position he said was too demanding for Giggs a year ago, instead of centrally. Whilst Antonio Valencia is more than earning his place in the team, with it being him who came closest to scoring, as well as providing the balls in for Rooney’s header on goal and what should have been the Carrick penalty, Nani clearly isn’t doing enough for the manager. He scored against Liverpool and Arsenal in his first season at the club so his regression is something that needs to be addressed. With Park still out injured, Giggs getting the nod down the wing ahead of Nani shows how limited our options are. I don’t mean that as a criticism of Giggs because I think he’s had a fantastic season, but he doesn’t have anything like the pace, particularly over 90 minutes, that we should be looking for in one of our wingers.
4. Berbatov-Rooney
Wayne Rooney clearly wasn’t ready to play and Dimitar Berbatov became increasingly frustrated by the string of decisions that went against him. Neither really got in to the game though which is down to them having an off day, but more to do with the midfield battle being lost. Berbatov put in a good shift though, all in all, but Rooney looked a game away from being properly fit, despite working his arse off. They weren’t given the support needed to create the chances but more worryingly there doesn’t seem to be a partnership there. This isn’t panic stations and I’m not setting alarm bells ringing, but both players appear to play better with Owen than they do with each other. I wouldn’t want Owen in the team over either of them but is that something the manager is going to have to try? The jury is still out for me but it is something to consider.
5. Desire
Of course United wanted to win yesterday but we didn’t need the three points as much as Liverpool did. They were on their worst run in years and simply couldn’t afford to lose again. It was that desperation that set the teams apart yesterday and quite frankly, I’d rather be second in the table and on the losing side yesterday, than outside the top four but winners yesterday. We don’t have cause to be as needy as they were for the points but I’d still expect more quality from United. We were hassled and pressured on the ball and didn’t have enough quality to deal with that on the day.
6. Defence
Fernando Torres is a brilliant player so there should be no shame in conceding to one of his goals but Rio Ferdinand’s lack of speed and strength when attempting to deal with the Spaniard was quite shocking. Whilst being beaten for pace isn’t too much of a crime, to be out-muscled by a player who spent most of the match falling over under the slightest of breezes is a worry. Rio has to be better than that and I imagine once he gets more than a few games in a row under his belt he will be better prepared. He won’t often come up against players as good as Torres, but he will certainly face players who are physically stronger. Needs more time in the gym or what?
Vidic got sent off for the third consecutive game against Liverpool but I don’t feel like he had much choice. His first yellow card wasn’t a booking but he was left with very little option for the second yellow card. Some are slating Vidic this morning but I think despite looking unsettled and nervous at times, he generally dealt with what came his way.
Patrice Evra wasn’t given the opportunity to have his usual attack influence on the game whilst John O’Shea proved the right-back spot is up for grabs. He didn’t have a bad game but he didn’t have a good game either and given our reliance on our fullbacks to support our wingers, John doesn’t add enough to be first choice. But who could replace him? Rafael and Wes aren’t available, and what Neville adds in attack he loses with his lack of pace defensively. O’Shea is a good player and good will have to do for now.
Conclusion
All in all, there were several aspects to Sunday’s game which meant we left with no points and thankfully we’ve got plenty of time to put things right. Our manager is right in what he has said in his summing up. We didn’t play very well but the referee got the key decisions wrong and that undoubtedly changed the result.
We don’t seem to know what our best XI is, or at least, the manager doesn’t seem to know, which we need to sort out sharpish. I realise in these days of ‘squads’ there will always be some grey area as to what the strongest starting team should be but yesterday’s midfield looked like it had been picked from a hat. We can use Blackburn as a practice for the most important game of the season so far, away at Stamford Bridge, and we need to perform a lot better, regardless of what the referee does!
Man Utd News 24/7
Good article Scott. Sums it up nicely. If only Man Utd had turned up at Liverpool, it’d have been a very different Monday!
I said, an hour before the game started yesterday, that the only reason we could lose at anfield is Fletcher not playing. How damn right I was. So the most important points you have made, Scott, are Fletcher and Desire.
There was no desire to win yesterday, no passion. We were lifeless at times, playing flat Many players kept passing the ball back to liverpool’s players; it’s almost like we wanted them to win, making it easy for them to battle us out.
Hopefully we’ll see the old utd against blackburn.
When a fox chases a rabbit, the fox is running for his dinner, but the rabbit is running for his life!
That was the difference ysterday. We wanted 3 points; the Dippers’ survival was at stake.
It was sheer desperation that won the day. They still won’t do anything this year though.
In all honesty Goggs best position is on the left wing, thats where he has had his best games this season. Giggs is not a central midfield player and playing him there just adds to the incorrect tea selection. When he moved there following Nani’s apearance, he failed to have any direct input.
As for Nani, he just needs games in order to build confidence. The potential and the skill is there, its just very raw and it needs games to develop, something it took Ronaldo a good while to do (Although Ronaldos ability is miles ahead of Nanis).
The team selection from the start was wrong and not for te first time this season or the first time in the big games. The selection of substitutes was also wrong. One obeservation is that in recent games only 3 subs ever warm up (Although neville warmed up yesterday), that indicates that Fergie knows which 3 players will be used, no matter what the game is like.
Its easy to point fingers at the ref, but on reflection he got the big decisions right. Fergies attacks on refs are becomoing weekly and its no wonder we suffer on certain decisions if the refs union sticks together.
At the end of the day, we are still missing key players and some players for key positions. The real test will be shown after January, but Chelsea away is a game we cant afford to loose and the selection of the starting X1 must take into account yesterdays failings.
Great article Scott but we have to admit were rubbish at Anfield! Against Chelsea the middle of the park needs to be sorted out. Carrick is not in the best form of his life so I don’t think he can be our first choice CM. We desperately need Fletch back for Chelsea and Anderson has impressed everybody this season. Berba looked good in the first half yesterday and I felt a half-fit Rooney should have been one of our substitutes. Owen should have started. Looking forward to Blackburn and specially Chelsea. If we can get a win or at least point the naysayers will shut up. Anyway, when is Hargreaves coming back? It will be like a new signing for us. I hope we get him back during the hectic Christmas period.
Can’t agree more with everything Scott, am probably a bit more worried about Rio than you are, because he has been immense we expect immense. I also am interested to know what everyone think we are missing then, this is probably Paul’s last season in our first team, I think he will be there next year but not playing anywhere near as much. I know Fergie loves Berba, as do I and Scott has published before how great he is. However, we need to be getting the best out of Rooney (who is our most talented player) and we aren’t at the moment. Valencia has the raw potential to be a great player, but until we buy a more established winger and take the pressure off the kid I don’t think he’ll perform in these games. I have been a season ticket holder in the Stretford End for nearly 10 years now, and in that time have seen defenders get turned inside out by Giggs, Ronaldo and now …? I think we may need to see the fact that Lpool went out and bought Torres and see if we could get a hungry player that is hitting top form. I trust Fergie and always will, I know he will not let the players forget today, I just think we are missing that X Factor player in midfield. We don’t have a Lampard, a Gerrard or especially a Fabregas, and that is what worries me. United will grow stronger from this, Starting tomorrow, let’s not forget those smug scouse faces.
Would have to agree with virtually everything written.
I said as soon as I saw the team sheet that it was going to be a long afternoon for a few simple reasons.
1) Rio n Vidic have been very shaky this season, so for me Jonny Evans would have started.Ppl seem to forget that he played the majority of games when Utd went without conceding last season.
2)With no Fletcher then the obvious inclusion for me was Anderson as with scholes and carrick in the middle it offers no bite, power or pace.
Against the lower lge teams you can afford the 2 of them.
But they at times made Lucas look half decent!
Don’t worry.Just relax.We may even lose another game like we did after the 1-4.The next game we played after losing to Fulham was Villa at home.
Sir Alex knows exactly what to do,unlike Rafa Benitez and Ancelotti.
B E L I E V E
Damned right about Fletch and Ando. No Fletch, no Hargreaves, then Anderson HAS to be in there.
It’s one painful weekend but we’ll never die.
The tittle is won in matches like blackburn on saturday, and stoke, bolton, west ham etc…Last year liverpool won all derby matches but they didnt won the tittle because they didnt won the mathes with these teams. I cannot see liverpool even qualifying for cl next year, one match it is not a season
@ Tufty
“In all honesty Giggs best position is on the left wing, thats where he has had his best games this season. Giggs is not a central midfield player and playing him there just adds to the incorrect tea selection”
If you think his best position was left wing, then why did he fail to have any impact yesterday on the left wing? Giggs does not have the pace to play there.
Giggs was similarly missing in action during the first half of the manchester derby, like he was missing yesterday when he was playing left wing. Only when he reverted to the more familiar central midfield role, that’s when we started to look more threatning and dominated the second half in the derby. Unfortunately that did not happen yesterday because there wasn’t a defensive midfielder in sight.
fletch was a big miss, dont know if it wud ave affected the result the dippers will say gerrard didn’t start. The most alarming thing was the lack of desire from our players, thats 3 on the bounce now weve been out fought against liverpoo. We can blame the ref or saf for picking the wrong team but the players need to take responilbity for their poor performance.
Articles like this make us look like sore losers.
We didn’t deserve a point at all. We were well beaten.
End of.
Can’t believe people are getting on carrick’s back when he had a good first half but a terrible 2nd half..maybe it had something to do with his CM partner? Scholsey a legen but to play him against any of the top 4 home or away needs to be looked at IMO, he can’t tackle or track back, he’s good againt teams who don’t play CM like mascherano etc..as he needs time on the ball, I certainly think playing anderson with micky would of made a big difference, just extra energy and bite..?
Let’s not forget that Rooney banged away his only clear cut chance just as well as Torres, pity it was only just offside.
I couldn’t believe that Carrick was playing yesterday, as soon as I heard Fletch was out I assumed that Ando would be getting the nod with Scholes as he adds grit to the midfield that you need in tough away games like this.
There is a saying, IF my aunty had a set of balls, she’s be my Uncle!
An article in the Telegraph, claiming ‘utd are struggling to adapt to life without ronaldo’. Sick of this, keeps happening. Everytime we lose, we have to see the same bullshit again and again. The journos need to be reminded that when the dippers beat us 4-1 last season, ronaldo played the whole match. Not having ronaldo in the team yesterday is not the reason for our loss, for fuck’s sake. Seems like the media haven’t adapted to life without him given the way his name is always brought up whenever we’re playing/we lose.
Well we lost the match because:
1. We played badly –thats the big reason.
2.The refree was going for dinner to a Spanish resto sunday night .It seems he was afraid of being poisoned by THE waiter.Bloody Bastard must have his balls ripped off..Who the hell is the Bastard??Well Both of them..
3.Scholes Shouldnot have played anyway..He can win you matches against minnows..but he is no more the Big match player anymore..He should be the Squad player and not in the Starting 11..Well SAF must have thought of having experience for this bitter game..Else there seems to be no other reason.But come to think of it..Scholes lost the ball too often for his standards..
4.Berba–He should stop whining at Antonio everytime..he did it in the Champs League match..and he did it again yestrday…Get on with it berba..
5.Oshea.–What were you doing son??His partnership with Antonia was as bad as nething this season..Well he did do well in the end..But in the 1st half he was shit..
6.Lucas–He is the bro-in-law of the refree..No wonder he didnot get a card even after infinite fouls..
7.Lady Boy–Vidic’s bogey player..Bastard fell even when vidic exhaled near him..Must be the Best Diver in the PL now..
Fletch not one of the reasons as he didnot play..But Hargo and Fletch wud be back…
We would be back next week..And hope our players take care of the hygiene as the Rovers are down with thw swine flu..
I do agree with Stretford Ender. Ferdinand really worries me. He has been immense but this season he just has not turned up. I am of the view that Vidic wants away. So I would bring in Johnny Evans. He needs the games to go up a notch or two, which I think he can. Perhaps SAF should consider him in a sweeper role. I would be interested to read what others think.
This was always going to be a hard game physically and therefore I would have beefed up the side.
I have liked Carrick but he does not like ‘hard’ games. When the tackles are fast and furious he is invisible. I agree with most, Anderson should have started and I would have played O’Shea in midfield with Neville at right back.
I cannot criticise Giggm, nor Scholes, both absolutely superb servants. But they should, perhaps, have been on the bench to start with.
But I did think that Owen was creating problems from the moment he came on the pitch. He has to start alongside Rooney but, as I mentioned earlier, I also believe we need a strong centre forward, to assist these two.
I mentioned West ham’s Cole, but the need, to me, is obvious. United, I think at times have become far too predictable.
Berbatov is classy, He has terrific one touch abilities. But he can be bounced off the ball. Eric the great could not! I would not have Berbatov in my side. He is an extravagance we cannot afford.
Thanks for the posting and the opportunity to put my views.
You nailed it there Scott, I was telling friends earlier that Liverpool needed, and wanted the win more than we did, we seemed to be content to try not to lose. The midfield selection was also not good enough, Anderson – Carrick would have been much better, I think.
All these annoying press headlines are still popping up, one bad evening leads to this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6433190/Manchester-United-struggling-to-adapt-to-life-without-Cristiano-Ronaldo.html
in my opinion only Evra and the Van had a good game.. We were passing long balls all the game to Rooney and thats just ridiculus. We are way to slow, it reminds me of Barca two years ago, the talent is there to beat the smaller teams but its to slow for the well organized teams.
The only time in the game we made quick one touch passes Valencia got our only chance of the game.
We need to pick up the pace, Scholes was always looking for a back pass while Liverpool knew that and were constantly pressing the backside.
Im not really worried just really pissed off
It could have been so wonderful day
I agree with Scott,all my mates andme said Ando should have been in the midfield.
I dont think we can have too many complaints though,we never really looked like scoring(apart from valencias shot) and the better team won.
I would take losing to the dippers again at Old Trafford and us winning the league again,no problem at all.
As for the ref,there was no way he was going to send Carragher off at Anfield for fouling Micky.He was influenced by the home crowd throughout the whole game!
Team selection didnt help yesterday.
Failure to change tactics until too late in the game cost us.
The usual ability to strectch the oppostion down the flanks was stifled by Liverpools defence and midfield. Benetiz got hisctics right.
Missed Fletcher (or A.N.Other midfield ball winner)
Liverpool were DESPERATE to win.
Ball just didnt bounce kindly for us.
One of those days!
Lets see how they get on at Old Trafford…….
Bruce Thomas said above;
“When a fox chases a rabbit, the fox is running for his dinner, but the rabbit is running for his life!
That was the difference ysterday. We wanted 3 points; the Dippers’ survival was at stake.
It was sheer desperation that won the day. They still won’t do anything this year though.”
I think this is spot on, and the same thing happened to us last season. The Scouse are an incredibly tough side when they are up against it. Take the boot off their neck and they go to pieces, but like a spring the more weight you pile onto them the more they push back. End of the day we’re the first top side they’ve played, and sure they won, but they’ve lost a bunch of games against crap teams and that’ll bury them in the long term.
i share the worries of other posts concerning rio’s form and confidence. isolated incidents are starting to become a costly pattern, and i wouldn’t mind seeing evans get a run of starts.
i think its too early to dismiss rio’s future importance at united, but we definitely need to groom a successor to be the backup for evans as he ascends into a starting role.
i hope our academy can produce the players we need for the defence. united need to find an especially hard cunt to boss the midfield and back line, the way keano did for years.
a lack of steel and closing the dippers down was fatally costly, and hopefully fletcher and hargreaves can return and provide a solution.
Have to say great article scott. Agreed with all that was said. Would love to have seen anderson in the middle with giggs. I think Carrick needs to start taking risks he passes the ball side ways or backwards 90% of the time – its really frustrating. Scholes has lost his sharpness and wasnt able to create the yard of space he needs to pick out his passes. Ando wouldve battled harder in the middle for sure and giggs def plays better through the middle!
Is anyone else getting tired of Fergie’s rants ar refs after every loss?
Fucking hell, I sure am.We need to own up to our terrible displays and start making improvements on all areas of the pitch.
We weren’t good yesterday. Simple as that. The ref made calls either way that were questionable. He was not at fault for our loss.
The loss yesterday hilighted a lack of creative spark that the team has. We have noone that can create something out of nothing (as Ronaldo used to) and that hurts us big time. There is no imagination in our play and that will hurt us against strong opposition. Our play on the wings was terrible and we got run right over in the middle. Our defence was shit. Only Van Der Sar brought some game yesterday. If not for him, the loss would’ve been much worse.
We absolutely need to bring in a top class player with vision, creativity, pace, and a willingness to get after defenders and try to make things happen. (someone along the lines of a Fabergas type)
We are not an exciting team to watch anymore. And anyone who disagreers with that is welcome to hit back at me, but please prove to me why you think we are a team that excites and have what it takes to win big games.
Ferguson didn’t claim that the referee cost us the game – he admitted that was our own fault. But he has every right to point out that the ref had a shocker because he bloody did. If we had somehow ground out a win in this game he would still have commented on the ref – it’s just the media wouldn’t have made such a fuss of “Fergie Ref Rant” again.
http://www.studs-up.com/2009/10/ba-dum-dum-ching/
Thoughts exactly
Excellent analysis of the match. Combination of refereeing decisions, wrong team selection/ formation, poor performances on the day from key players, plus weaker motivation for United add up to a defeat that rankles.
Looking beyond this result to the longer term however, I am worried that too many of our most important players over the last few years are coming to the end of their careers without any definite sign that they are being seamlessly replaced: Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Van der Sar, and possibly Rio and the injury -prone Wes Brown. To me that’s collectively a much bigger issue than the loss of Ronaldo. He was a great player as an individual skillster, one of the best I’ve ever seen at United, but while he may have rescued the team on many occasions, he was never a team player in the sense that the ones I’ve mentioned above have been. The very core and identity of the Triple Premiership-winning, Champions League Winners/ Finalists (not to mention other trophies and near-misses) is coming to the end of its natural life. Yes we have a fantastic squad, and there’s no need to panic, especially as we do have some great young players coming through, but it worries me how often we lack both real creativity and physical, out-bullying toughness through the core of the line-up, both in central midfield and defence, only months after having the best defence around. Of course the return of Fletcher and Hargreaves will make a huge difference to the defensive-midfield side of things, but we can’t keep relying on Giggs to rescue us, or Scholsey to run the show. I’ve said it before, I think Fergie kept faith with Roy Keane for 2 or 3 seasons too long, relying far too much on his inspirational qualities and leadership to build the team round. He can be more sentimental than people think, and there’s a real danger he’ll do this again with the current ‘oldies’. I’m not saying get rid of them, of course I’m not, but I do think he’s got to give more opportunities to younger players such as Anderson and the much reviled Nani. And I’d like to see Darron Gibson given more of a chance. He’s a heavy-hitter and needs big-match-experience. At least he’ll let fly from distance from time to time. I’d have liked to see Macheda and Welbeck warming up on the touch-line too yesterday. I don’t know if the Italian’s alleged ‘attitude’ problems are an issue, but it would heve been good to see him rough Carragher up a bit.
Liverpoo home, fullham away, barca cup final, villa away and spurs away wat ave they got in common ronny played in all them games which utd never win. The media are perpetuating this myth about ronaldo he’s gone get over it.
Loved the article Scott and the comments written. What conclusion can we make. Well we don’t frighten teams anymore and after yesterdays display maybe our midfield is not good enough. Yes we will beat lesser teams but how many games this season have we really dominated and gone on to win easily. I can only think of the games against Spurs and Wigan. Who would have thought that we would be so poor against the likes of Sunderland and look so nervous after Bolton scored. Maybe its about time we chose a midfield and stuck to it. Hopefully a fit Oberton will help and the strikers coming in in January. Maybe its about time SAF said we need a midfield general who can hold his own and not be intimidated like the midfield was at Liverpool. After yesterday i hope we don’t get turned over by Chelsea.
Rio and Vidic are not working together anymore. For someone who is supposed to be one of the best centre backs in the world not getting tight to Torres and then be outmuscled for his goal.You could have driven a bus through the gap between the 2 centre backs. Vidic’s judgment on his sending off was poor. The ball was going across field and he didn’t need to bring the player down All he needed to do was track him and hold him up until other Utd players got back to help. Time for Evans I think
i still say we will win the league but i am not sure about europe.yeah i agree we should have faith and be positive but be frank guys our squad doesnt have the strength to win the champs league.hope i am wrong.
time has come where fergie gives the likes of tosic,macheda and da silvas to play.sorry to say but i am sick of seeing o shea play like i was sick of park.o shea is the most overrated player atleast in defence.ando should play now.
valencia can improve eventhough yesterday i said he isnt fit for united.
vds and berba were the only positive from yesterdays game.
Why are making excuses for a terrible performance. bar the last 10 mins liverpool destroyed us. I defended ferdinand last week but i would much prefer evens in there. thought VDS was our best player. thank god we have him back. We looked very frail down the core of our team. a point backed by the fact that lucas, yes lucas, dominated midfield.
from the it was clearly carrick and scholes pairing not working for the first 45 minutes. we were out playeda and out muscled. why ando was not used to balance the game really make me wonder.
sometimes when your midfield dont work your striker and defense will work harder to contain the opponent. hope the palyers will pick up themselves after this dissappointing defeat.
Ash – Tosic and Macheda – are you on drugs?
Please get everything sorted up SAF!!!
i think we had the measure of l’pool, we didint play well and the ref was
offish. the midfield that went out has enough quality to play,i’ve said a number of times(years actually) United need to have a better ball retention policy, with the players we have(not to mention experience) passing the ball should be the name of the game. If l’pool wanted to hustle us out of the game they would have grown tired really early, but alas that didnt happen
IMO obertan should have made the squad, i mean how bad could he be. we all saw Nani and we were all fustrated(Again) . Sooner rather than later, an inquest will be held with regards to the first team and how we’re playing and how we want to move forward
Lastly i thought Berba and rooney were okay, berba really tried, just didint work out(what does anyone expect when he keeps dropping dowm to midfield) imagine him in and around the box with his touches and flicks, with a constant supply of the ball in midfield
Re: your point about Referee and Lucas Leiva. How is it any different to the way the ref treated Man U and Darren Fletcher in the Man U Arsenal game ?
You got a bit of karma your way I think
I have to agree with the last point in the article – that no one seems to know what our best XI is.. but I’m not sure how anyone is going to find out because we never play the same team for any consecutive games.
But the system is knid of working (apart from yesterday of course..)
People blame the strikers to much. The midfield was crap just like against Barcelona. We needed Darren Fletcher and Owen Hargreaves would be nice.
Good points above, but the bottom line is that we weren’t good enough yesterday and as the morning papers have had some delight in pointing out today the only match that we have looked a force to be reckoned with is in the spurs match (even though last yr we still had certain players, and our defense was still playing halfway decent at the time but still lost by even more goals so papers need to check their precedents a little more closely). the match with liverpool was turning into a great example of ‘don’t taunt a wounded animal’ even before the match and utd have done the ‘ignoring the problem & hoping it goes away’ act for the majority of the season now and the most frustrating part is that we know that players like rooney, berba, nani, anderson, rio, vidic, etc…. can be awesome because we’ve alredy seen it from them or we’ve at least seen glimpse’s of it, but with the exception of giggs, evra, flecter (and prehaps van der sar as he’s just getting back) the majority of our players are blowing hot or cold, or just not blowing much at all and the unpredictability of it all isn’t healthy. Hopefully this match will give the players a shock and relight some sort of hunger (that if you compare to liverpool we seem to be lacking) that will take us right till the end of the season. The papers have got it wrong, this unnerving form isn’t down to the loss of certain players (though we’d all admit that does not help) but down to as i’ve pointed out in another post here, our defense functioning to no where near the level we know they can do (which is hopefully a temp thing and defense member like vida and rio got a shock yesterday and we’ll see an large improvement from the blackburn match onwards), and we are missing a player who can spark the team and provide links between the midfield and forwards (where all 3 forward possible pairings don’t seem to be working that well) and hopefully the answer is under saf nose already in the form of hargreaves, obertan, ljanic or diouf or prehaps saf will surprize us all with a late xmas present in the form of a winter transfer market purchase that know one has even though of. The good thing is that even though many people are saying that utd have not played well this season at least if you read between the lines that suggests that we can at least play better and we have been below par – it’d be much worse if the majority was suggesting this is as good as it gets for utd and the onfield performances are actually above par. The papers know it, we know it and another fans know that this utd team can perform 200%, prehaps 300% better than they are right now and that though should give us hope. The other thing working in our favour in the pl at least is that anyteam can get points off any team, you can’t predict a single result this yr and that is what makes the pl the best league in the world – on current form you would think that chelsea would steam rolla over us after their result against liverpools, and furthermore pools result against us but the way results are going this season it wouldn’t be a shock if it was utd doing the steam rolling. There is still everything to play for – you can’t predict the pl top 4 finishers, let alone the champion and as for the champions league, even though pundits are predicting the spending happy big 2 in spain are going to white wash over everyone, on result europe results it is the most open in yrs and even one of the so called lesser teams could win it. Utd may be having a bad patch now but i’d rather have a bad patch now whilst there is still time to improve and recover than later and if utd get a favorable draw in both the cl and fa cup then it would not be a totally impossible feat to do treble again and goodness knows we need something to shut up the critics once and for all!
Anderson was likely not selected by some combination of Ferguson’s rotation policy or Anderson’s performance against Liverpool last season. Either way, neither Carrick or Scholes are ball-winners – at least 1 of which you need in a game like this (especially away from home). Both Scholes and Carrick are essentially distributors, and what makes Ferguson’s selection even more questionable is Carrick’s inconsistent form coming into this game vs. Anderson’s general solidity. As a result of the midfield imbalance, Liverpool clearly won the battle of the middle of the park – leaving our defenders exposed time and again.
To say that Torres isn’t strong enough to shrug off Rio is off the mark though – just because he goes down often, doesn’t mean he isn’t a strong player – just ask Ronaldo. Torres is both quick and strong – and knows how to direct his runs and position his body to devastating effect. Vidic, Rio and many other defenders have found this out to their peril. Should Rio have done better? Perhaps. But once Torres got level/slightly ahead of him in that position, it was unlikely that Rio was going to muscle him off the ball – he then attempted to shepherd him to close down the angle for VDS – at which point Torres executed a beautiful finish. An avoidable goal? Yes. A soft one? I don’t think so.
There are several different options at RB for us in addition to O’Shea – you might even say it’s our most varied position. Rafael has already played in 2 reserve league games – so I’m sure that if he’s not available for selection against Barnsley tomorrow – then it will be soon enough. Then there’s De Laet – who’s arguably the most all rounded of the young wingbacks and Gary Neville – who provides experience, if waning physical ability. Wes can’t seem to stay fit, which is a shame – but when he is fit, he’s also a viable option all across the backline.
Interested to see the performances of the young lads tomorrow – hopefully some can impress the manager enough to allow them to provide a spark, to what’s so far been a somewhat uninspired looking First Team.
How could I forget Fabio as well – who to me is the more talented of the da Silva twins.
Best United XI
————-Van der Sar—————-
Harra—-Vidic———-Rio——-Evra
———Fletch———-Carrick——-
Valencia—————————Nani
————Berba—–Wazza———–
Even though our defence has been the strongest in the league the last few years it is starting to crumble down a bit this year. I don’t think it has anything to do with the quality of our defenders (except for the right back position), Rio hasn’t been great so far but I do hope (and expect) that he reaches the level he had last few seasons.
As I already stated, the rightback position is the weakest link at the moment. I know a lot of people will argue against this but I think that the best player we have to play on that position is Owen Hargreaves. Neville is too old, Rafael is too young and O’Shea is to slow in big matches against the likes of the dippers and chelski etc.
When Harra returns Fletcher will not lose his place in the starting eleven, I’m quite damn sure about that. And it would be absolute nonsense to leave Harra on the bench only to appaer when Carrick/Fletcher are injured or tired. So why don’t play him as rightback when he returns? Hargreaves played some really good matches as our rightback in the legendary 07/08 season, he even played in the CL final against ‘ol chel$ki.He’s as strong, has leader capacities, speed, is good at defending and he can also sling in a freekick from time to time. (Remember Arsenal at home!)
As far as this season goes, I would be quite happy if Harra takes over the right back position, but in the long run I do hope we sign a class rightback like Maicon from Inter, before both Evra and the future rightback signing hand over their place in the starting XI to our beloved Brazilian twins.
Of course the rightback position isn’t the only problem in our squad, we are not creating chances like we did the previous seasons. I really hoped that Nani would stand up and prove himself worth the 20 million pounds sigining. When he plays 10 games 2 are quite good, 3 average and 5 poor. But in those few games he actually played good he has shown us that he has the ability to become a world-class player. He has to get more consistent in his performances, so giving him more confidence by giving him more chances in our starting line up will hopefully profe me right.
Valencia is doing a great job and he was the first player (after Fletcher of course
) I filled in my midfield. Giggs almost never plays a bad game but I think it’s better to use him as an substitute against top teams. Berba and Wazza are our best strikers, no doubt about that, but they need to get chances to score goals, and in creating chances we are lacking at the moment.
Rooney needs to focus on scoring goals and saving his energy on that as that remains his primary objective. Sunday he was all over the pitch working his arse of, this would be considered as positive but he wasn’t top fit. Torres also wasn’t top fit but he saved his energy for attacking moments rather than Rooney’s constant pressing and defending obligations.
However, we were unlucky yesterday no doubt about that, that dipper in disguise has made an horrible impact on the game, I can’t fucking wait for the home game.
United we Stand, United we Fall
We’ll Never Die
PG – And the media, Wenger and Arsenal fans went on and on and on about Darren Fletcher for weeks.
Are we not allowed to talk about Lucas even the day after?
For me Rooney and berbatov are to alike which is why its not working. they both drop way to deep to often which leaves either one striker in the box which is totaly isolated or even worse NO striker to get on the end of any balls that do come in. Owen getting pulled down by carragher was a perfectly example of what neither Rooney or Berba really do which is play right up on the shoulder of the last defender.
i have to agree that the partnership between wazza and berba isnt working. berba is a quality player who needs a player like michael owen to run around the box to receive his passes, and knowing micky, he’s most likely to take his chances well as he’s a proven goal scorer. that day, when owen came in to play alongside wazza, he was really making problems to liver’s defence. no matter how many of you guys are disagree with me, i have to say that owen needs to start with either berba or rooney eventhough both berba and rooney are better strikers than owen at this point.
belfast77 – very good point. The problem is how do we get the best out of Rooney and the best for the team. Personally I would try a few games with Rooney, Berbatov and Owen starting, playing all 3.
Tufty, the problem is that if all three start you know exactly where Wayne is going to end up playing – stuck out on the left again getting frustrated and not getting involved enough. Owen did look great when he game on yesterday despite what the papers are saying as he got in behind twice (once when he was hauled down, and also for Valencia’s crossbar chance). Having said that he hasn’t overly impressed in any of the games he’s started for us and I’m not convinced he can be the answer as a starter.
I don’t know what the solution is to be honest, but it certainly is frustrating as currently we aren’t getting the best out of Berbatov or Rooney despite them both being great players.
if u have noticed, whenever owen is on the pitch… he tends to stay in the box.. waiting for chances or rebounds.. thats what he does best… being a fox in the box… i would love to see berba and owen starting on the next game. wazza should rest.. i still think he’s not fully fit yet… we could start 3 strikers together.. but not till hargreaves/ fletcher is back
@ mambo jambo – Great XI, great points. I too agree that Hargo plays wonderfully at RB, but you forgot about someone. Wes Brown? This player would be my first choice, if not for his injuries, and I am confused he didn’t start ahead of O’shea or even came on as a sub, given he’s fit, yesterday. I also would like to see Hargo playing in his original midfield position, as he plays best there. Hargo’s fitness still worries me, he was scheduled to come back 3rd November, now he’s out for another 6 weeks. Meaning he won’t be fit for the chelsea gamee which is a big blow.
ash
are you nuts berbatov was a positive he was one of the worse players on the field yesterday along with many others with his stupid flicks and he seems so easy to mark out of the game. I agree on vds but hes the only one who turned up along with vidic. valencia at times is so ineffective, he goes wide but the quality he puts in is awful, giggs and scholes looked their age yesterday and rooney was just unfit, carrick was poor yet again. it is quiet clear now united need a central striker and a powerful CM player along with a wide player because its annoying how fergie keeps faith with hargreaves returning when he has been out over a year.
Time for a few home truths before our season implodes:
Rio is either not 100% fit, or in need of a good old hairdryer treatment. His saving grace was always his pace – relying on vidic/evans to dominate in the air. His pace has gone. Perhaps his persistent back injury is finally taking it’s toll. At the moment Evans and Brown are safer bets at centre half.
Carrick just can’t cut it. No pace – either on the field or in his head! Slow, slow, slow. And for SAF to start Scholesy as well was a poor move – we made Lucas look class! Ando should have started.
Would like to see De Laet and Obertan given a chance.
By the way the referee was shocking also. Early booking of Evra was a disgrace – especially as the little Argie git and the little Brazilian git got away with multiple fouls all afternoon allowing them to constantly break up play with no punishment.
Carragher took Rooney out twice – both deserved yellows. Was Mr Liverpool going to be sent off for hauling down Owen – not a chance!
On Tufty’s idea of playing all three – Rooney, Berba, Owen – I have long thought that Rooney’s best position might well end up being as an attacking midfielder, playing behind either one or two strikers, in the old-fashioned inside-forward ‘schemer’ (i.e. playmaker) role, sometimes bombing forward to score. He’s not quite right as an out-and-out centre forward, getting too frustrated up front, is wasted out wide, but does well behind forwards who can drag defences around, like Heskey for England, or perhaps Berba and Owen for United. Playing a little deeper would also give our midfield more protection, plus a lot of intelligence married to energy and drive. At present we have no-one pushing up against defenders and terrorising them through the middle. Wazza could do that.
@ Giles Oakley
Owen (Berba)
Nani Rooney Valencia
Fletch Carrick
??
Totally agree with your comments Scott, but I would like to add:
Dont forget Giggs was brought down in the box as well as Carrick. These kinds of desicions tends to change the game – with a goal or two up United would have bossed the field. The crowd would have been silent with only our supporters to be heard. So the ref get to easy away with it.
Thanks to those concerned for making my life miserable ! Utd never die but I’ ll soon be…………….
Torres isn’t as lightweight as he would like opposing teams to believe. He wins the free-kicks by making defenders careless commit, yet shows good strength when a goalscoring opportunity arises. He is extremely clever in that respect. Even with the injuries, any team would have him.
I have re-watched the match – I think that the ref continued to allow the Liverpool fouls earlier on and only carded our players which were unnecessary [initial 30 mins] – this allowed Liverpool players to grow in confidence that the ref will allow the home advantage and it definitely seemed that way [may be red-tinted glasses]. An earlier yellow card, definitely limited Evra for sure.
But united usually rise above this and make a fight of the match, but yesterday we didn’t. We deserved to lose alright, but for refereeing cock-ups a draw may be. But blame lies with the players for playing meekly.
And carragher as usual gets away with it, whats new! Before the match – Rio said he has nothing to prove. But now he definitely has to prove himself. Too many mistakes, we cannot allow this carry on.
Oh and finally how did Rooney become this bad. He cannot even seem to get the simple passes right. He should stop moaning and get on to playing well.
does anyone feel united should have sold carrick in the summer and brought in a quality CM player because its clear he is just 2 slow and lacks te dynamic movement needed at this level. add the fact berbatov is playing has poor as has van nistlerooy did between aug 2004 to may 2006. ppl have jumped to berbatovs defence but its coming to a point where questions should be asked for a player cost 30 million but adds very little to our attacking play.
Caragher hauled down owen when Owen was holding his shirt in the first place. Also, why did Vidic only get a yellow when he hauled down Kuyt?
Carragher’s tackle on Carrick was fair.
You’re also being a hypocrite by complaining that Luca should have been carded. Umm, remind me how many fouls Fletcher committed against Arsenal without getting a yellow card?
You’re just bitter
piss off pat and worry about west ham ya prick
Can everyone fuckin stop saying Berbatov was a positive. He was HORRENDOUS. If Owen started, at least he wouldve threatened to have at least one fuckin chance.
Ando-Hargo-Fletcho. Needs to be our midfield
obertan will make his debut 2moz says fergie
it’s no point talking about how things might have been different – the fact of the matter is that we lost to a sub standard side like Liverpool – granted it was at Anfield, and the ref may have been a little influenced at the threat of having dog crap thrown at him, but thats what home ground advantages are all about.
The team just didn’t show up on the day, and whilst I am fairly confident these are all pieces of the eloborate puzzle that winning the premier league involves, it would be nice to watch the lads play for a bit of pride in the shirt, and treat the game like the dirty scousers – a cup final.
I can’t even begin to tell you how much I Liverpool, and their fans incessant chat about that fat bastard Rafa, or the fact that they can kick start their season off the back of this victory over the best team in the land – it would be nice to keep those ass clowns quiet.
I hope the lads bounce back next week, I want to see that flowing football that I know United are capable of, the onus is on Fergie to understand where he went wrong with the tactics on the day, and the players he needs to get the job done correctly.
Sorry for the rant, lets do this United.
MUFC the Religion
what is disturbing is we payed more for berbatov than livepool did for torres. if ppl think berbatov had a good game then they are pro berbatov simple has that. I will say again he is so easy to mark out of the game when agger and carragher were there for the taken.
OK, I think it’s been said enough that Liverpool deserved the win because they were the hungrier team, but there’s a few comments on United’s players I want to comment on.
Firstly, our best XI. I want to point out that team selection should always be done on a ‘horses for courses’ basis. Carrick and Scholes are good players and, in my opinion, should be played in such games like the forthcoming game against Blackburn at home. We’ll need their creativity to break down what may well be their US Emergency formation (9-1-1.. is that one player too many? Anyway…)… But against any of the top 4 teams away from home, we need energy and steel (a point covered to death by now)…
Second, on our defence. Yes, it looked dodgy yesterday, but, for me, Rio looks only about 70% fit, Vidic will never be able to cope with raw pace – he’s all about getting his head on things and getting stuck in – and I also want to point out that it was only earlier this calendar year that everyone was asking whether our back five would ever concede a goal… So they haven’t become bad players overnight, as they say… I think that maybe it’s partly due to a point raised in commentary yesterday that this is only the 4th game this season that Rio, Vidic and VDS have played together…
Lastly, it’s only October… good to see Harry Redknapp on SSN earlier, slagging off the (quite frankly ridiculous) ‘criticism’ culture the press seem to increasingly adopt… I mention this because I read part of an article on this website from a certain Mr Rob Smyth, who I believe works for the Guardian newspaper… I’m not his biggest fan (isn’t cricket his sport? I think he should stick to it..).. he’s had his say on yesterday’s performance and of Ferguson’s comments afterwards… Man Alive – can he talk some shite.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/oct/26/manchester-united-liverpool-premier-league
-Tufty
I dont know if id play all 3 strikers at once , i certainly wouldnt play it with the midfield players we currently have cause wed get slaughterd. For me Rooney has to start when fit hes the heart of the team and hes scoring goals. Right now i think ownen should play along side him for a few games.
Its time to face the facts Berba was bought for 30 million to score GOALS and at the moment hes not doing it for whatever reason. Maybe we arnt creating enough chances for him but from what ive seen this season he has trouble finnishing on alot of occasions. Before anyone says it i know he brings other things to the team but the fact of the matter is his job is to PUT THE BALL IN THE FUCKING NET. We didnt buy him to create for other people thats why we bought Valencia. Hes is a world class i just think he has trouble fitting into our team/system. Maybe a few games on the bench will do him good it might be the kick in the arse he needs.
I’m not sure about the Carrick one. The ref was well placed and Carragher made some (albeit minimal contact). That said I’ve seen them given, but not often at Anfield.
For me I think the result was probably about right over 90 minutes. I’m gutted about it (I work with a bunch of Scousers and today was painful) but in the context of a championship we are still well placed. Championships aren’t won based on results at Anfield afterall.
I’d like to see a bit more stability in team selection. This is partly owing to inguries and partly owing to fegie’s rotation policy. I can’t critise hime for it – there are simply too many games over a whole season – but we lack understanding in the key roles. We look disjointed at times and our attacking moves appear laboured. I think this can only be improved through a more settled team selection/availability.
belfast77
LOL not being funny but putting world class and valencia in the same sentance is hilerious no offence. look at torres yesterday look at the players hes been playing with for liverpool and he still finds a way of scoring goals, you look at berbatov what he lacks for me needed to make it at united. he lacks raw pace, physical strength to get cause defences problems, and he drops way to deep making it so easy for defences to mark him out of the game. and this sums berbatov up he is just way to one dimensional and he really lacks veriaty in his game and he look so pridictable. I still have yet to see berbatov game after game blow defences apart has anyone seen berbatov look like a 30 million pound striker.
I wasnt calling valencia world class I was refering to Berbatov.
Unbelievable. For the last few weeks it has been clear to see what Berbatov has brought to the team. After one defeat he is made the scapegoat and all the haters are back out in force. He got fuck all service yesterday but was one of our better players. To compare him to Torres is daft. They are very different players.
King Eric
whats he brought?
King Eric
I am comparing both when you look at what torres has played with lets see, lucas mascheano kuyt not exactly the most creative of players. berbatov has looked poor ever since he arrived, he looks way too pridictable and one dimensional and its about time he stood up and start doing what he is payed to do score goals. forget the flicks tricks and stats if we wanted stats look at his goals which for me is just not enough, skill and talent alone is not enough to make it at this club and unless some fans look at this then there will always be debat, for me I look at berbatov has what roy keane thought of veron.
The current team will never be able to compete with the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern, or Juve. We’re gonna get run right over by teams that can move the ball and force their game on us. We sit back, take it and get scored on. We only show some muscle against weaker opposition.
Fergie’s gotta figure his shit out. Find the best 11 and stick with them. Chelsea’s done it and they’ve put up some very impressive performances. (bring on the comments and insults for that one)
How can we get any chemistry, flow, or cohesion if the lineup is constantly changing?? It’s bullshit really. I noticed it last year. Obviously,the season is long and players will need breaks. But we need a ‘go to’ team. Fergie can’t seem to get it. I’ll be one of the few here to question him. He’s made some terrible tactical and team selection decisions over the last 6 months. I think he’s gotta get his shit together first. Our sytem changes, our players change but this year our football has been little more than a ‘do enough to get some points’ effort. There is no reason why we need to lose to Liverpool and why we continuously squeak out 1-0 wins at the death.
RedDeviled Egg
why are ppl saying oh we were negative it was scholes carrick in the middle, valencia giggs wide, berbatov rooney upfront how much of an attacking lineup did ppl want, the problem is we do not have the players simple has that, we lack creativity veriaty physical strength in attack pace. ppl sya anderson should have started well anderson in the CL final was not exactly great in that game was he. carrick and berbatov are clearly the big factors why we look so poor
I wish if it’s yesterday and we play the game again- it hurts a lot
Yesterday reminded me of the CL game against Barcelona.
Yes the ref was a total looney tune but United just did not wake up – and they only half made a fist of it after Torres out muscled Rio (yes I can’t believe I said that – Rio needs to stop reading his five mag he should be reading this!).
I believe the team sent out yesterday was good enough to beat Liverpool – I think United at times believe that some matches will be a walk in the park and they proved it again yesterday by not turning up – equate CL final.
I am proud that I have been saying for years that Fletch will be a monster in our midfield and yes we have missed him – but again Liverpool were in a hole and we through our own performance (or lack of it) let them breathe again.
We let ourselves down more than anything – we didn’t score end of.
It’s not an end of the world result – it’s more like a kick in the backside to remember that we have bigger fish to fry.
Also reminded me of when we beat Chelsea at OT 1-0 some years back when Mourinho was in charge – he said that we had won the battle but that Chelsea would win the war – read yesterday as a perfect analogy.
But United have to do better because United are better. So we all will have to bite the bullet once more grit our teeth and go again.
Our lesson has never changed. If we fall down we just have to get up dust ourselves off and go again.
I think part of the problem that neither saf or us fans knows our best XI or even who works best with who and who can enhance who’s performance on the pitch and this is frustrating to watch as you get the feeling that utd can play much better than they have all this season. thing is imo this isn’t a new problem as there was signs of this last season, the difference is that a player like Ronaldo was papering over our cracks to an extent (though to be far he seems to be doing that even more so in madrid, so at least it doesn’t just seem to be us) so the problem could be overlooked until this season where we are now. the downside to over just getting round to solve the problem is that it will take time – at least weeks if not months to solve the problem and you got to remember to players like nani & rooney this is probably the first real chance to play the playmaker and rise to the challenge (with ronaldo around it kind of muted everyone else into a supporting role and there is a big difference between what (type of) work you need to put in for a supporting role and a lead role) and it was always going to take time, hopefully the time needed will be only on this side of xmas. It’s too early to say that teams like chelsea, madrid, barca and juve have no where near the same level as us because in the champions league we’ve seen that the majority of the big teams have issues to sort out and weaknesses – they are just different problems, but not necessarily better problems than the ones we are having. And we all know that a lot of football is down to luck – luck of the draw, luck of players getting injuries, luck on players having a career high or low for that matter, luck on how ref decisions go for/against, etc…. by xmas the list of teams on top/on form could have done a u-turn on how each team looks now. For all we know by January rio & vidic could be back to their best, hargreaves could be back and hopefully at his vintage best, berba and rooney could of finally learnt how to play together or just how to aid the team better & the 3 new boys due in around xmas time could be showing signs of looking like bargains – or after xmas it could be polar opposites of what i’ve just described.
The realistic aim right now is by the new year to still be in the cl, fa and carling competitions and to be either leading or within 3 points of the pl leaders. If we manage that i think we’ll be doing well and hopefully this hot and cold type start we’ve had is just part of utd being well known as slow starters!
anyone else think nani and owen shoulda been brought on sooner? valencia is solid but doent have the skill of nani to beat a player he just uses speed and has no left leg, notice everytime he turned back he always passed backwards instead of crossin with his left, the ref was shite but at the end of the day… so were we
Berbatov has probably been United’s best player the last 4 games. Cannot believe people saying we haven’t the talent in our team. We have THE best squad in the league . Our midfield once we get back to Fletch and Hargreaves along with Anderson, Scholes, Gibson, Giggs, Valencia, Orbetan, Nani, Park is the strongest in the league. We have fantastic young players to come through which Fergie will introduce when he thinks they are fully ready and not before. To say we will be over powered by the likes of Juve and Bayern and the fascists is frankly ridiculous. You can talk about the Rentboys but come on they have not been tested yet. They ain’t played us, Arsenal or City yet and have lost to both Wigan and Villa. Fergie will get the rotation bang on as usual and come Feb, March next year following their miserable January without key players where we will be strengthening lets see who looks the more likely team to win the league. My money is on United.
Who the fuck is Fergie? Yet some people STILL question and doubt him.
King Eric
I hate to be negative but I will again, the simple fact is we don’t have the talent in the areas needed for different tactics, I have said my two cents on berbatov and why he is not good enough too much like veron he is. The players you mentioned you are clutching at straws, when you start naming Hargreaves park gibson and obertin when 2 are injured a lot one who hardly gets a game and one player who has never even played a premiership game. We don’t have the players coming through and playersl ike welbeck and macheda seem arrogant and believing their hype from last year, nani and anderson are nothing but over hyped youngsters who ppl thought they were better than they actually are and its proven the case now. But you look at our play and it’s very one dimensional with very little penetration up front, throughout the spine of the team it’s looking poor. vds Ferdinand vidic partnership seems to be an end of an era, we have no clue what the best CM is, and the strikers the balance and mix is not right with combination off Rooney and berbatov do not complement each other, and owen who does not offer enough impact in games to be starting.
theres only one Keano – Come on pal. Our defense is just going thru a bad patch it doesn’t turn shit overnight. Anderson is still only 21 for fuck sake. The lad shows great potential but just needs more games and consistency . No decent youngsters? Da Silva’s, De Laet, Wellbeck, Gibson, Josh King, Eikrem, Macheda, Orbetan and the two lads to join up in Jan. Pogba. With Hargreaves even back to 80 per cent fitness will be like a new signing. Finally very little penetration? I assume you are going by just Sundays game. We have created dozens of chances in games. We could and should have been 5 up at half time against Bolton the other week. Our problem isn’t creating chances but finishing them which I am sure the coaching staff will be working on.
Don’t take this the wrong way but you sound very similar to another poster on here.
The most galling aspect of the game was that UTD were beaten by a VERY mediocre team. A team lacking in creative ability, class and every thing that makes a team worth watching. UTD were beaten by a team that most UTD fans know can be beaten if UTD play to their strength. Scott’s comments sum up the situation perfectly. UTD did not have enough desire or determination to win, but ‘Pool’s victory may mean RB stopping there for the rest of the season. And we all know he’ll never win the EPL with that squad.
UTD could now go on an unbeaten run of 20 or so matches – a run that would see them finish as champions. ‘Pool have just experienced the highlight of their season. From here onwards they’re on a downward slope. With games coming up v City and Everton, I can see them dropping plenty of points in the next few weeks.
King Eric
well I am a new member, only joined last friday. I am just really concerned by the way united have been playing and it looks just like last year. I feel we should be beating liverpool about 2 or 3 0 because they are woeful.
King Eric
I will give u de laat and the de silva twins but the rest they have a lot to live up to, because the way scholes and giggs and what they have given anderson and nani really have to wake up. if keano was about he would be disgusted at how some of the young players have been acting like they have made it when the hard work has yet to begin.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2700904/Neville-in-Anfield-cop-clash.html
wooah… lots and lots of negativity here, funny how none of this came out in the last few weeks when the team was doing well, I think the media’s attitude has rubbed off on the fans.
Take a step back people there’s a long way to go yet and there is plenty of time for Fergie to get his team right. Believe me he knows the pros and cons of the team a million times more than anyone on this forum.
Yes, we didn’t play too well in that game. The desire didn’t seem there. But I think the ref had a bad game. Besides Lucas as Scott mentioned, Carragher was also going through the back of Rooney a number of times and no free kick was given. I thought a tackle from behind was illegal even if you manage to get the ball but go through the player in the process? Like many said, we miss Fletch and Hargreaves.
Overall, if we had got a different ref, I think we could have got something out of the game. Anyway, move on. We got the rest of the season ahead and our 19th League title to win. Sure I would have liked to beat the dippers but a 19th title would do just fine. Then next season we can bring up the 19 every time we meet them.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/2700881/Goram-Keano-hated-my-guts.html
good read that, keano didnt give a shit did he
Good article. Probably the way most viewers saw it. If I was neurotic I might suspect there is a referee gang lined up against us.
The decision I found most laughable was when Ngog admitted a foul but the referee gave the decision for him, maybe I am not so neurotic.
I wait for the time when Sir Alec is mugged on the way home by a rabid gang of referees.
Personally I think Sir Alec has mellowed too much, he needs to make some harsh decisions about certain players.
With regards to the match on Sunday, there appeared to be a lack of pace in midfield to stop the opposition swarming through! Anderson might have been a good addition. Although the overall performance barely justified a draw.
one loss, so what? cannot dwell on this game too much….we have such a young team still and future looks good with a few more additions. Anderson, Macheda, Nani, Welbeck, DeLaet, Evans, DaSilva 2, Obertan, Tosic, Ljajic, etc etc etc…
this will be the team that the future manager of united will inherit from SAF. He can add a few more big names along with vida, evra, carrick, brown, fletcher, park, berbatov, rooney etc.
What does liverpool have other than gerrard/torres?
What does chelsea have other than lamps/terry?
think in 4 years time, who has a team ready to compete and win? UNITED!
We have won 3 in a row, maybe this year is not ours, but after that, I see us three-peating again!!
Honestly…I am so tired about hearing about referees…judging by the quality of the refereeing it should be a given we should expect a few shocking decisions…not only are we getting a bad reputation with the refs but we are excusing ourselves with these increasingly mediocre performances…. Fergie should just admit we were shocking..end of and say we need to improve and get on with the business…I think he is spending way too much glaring at refs and calling them out than getting better performances out of the players..and I still wonder why people like John O’Shea (as much as I love his dedicaltion) are first choice at the expense of Wes brown, De Laet, Fabio and Rafael….team selection was shocking and our youngsters are rotting on the bench….United is better than this and we need to start showing it!
I hope it will be better…
@united.george
can’t agree more with you mate,well said!
well written i agreed with all ur points especially about fletcher, and that ando shouldve started, well said mate
there are a few lessons we have to learn
1.Scholes and Carrick cannot play together. We need someone with more energy and Anderson should have played instead of scholes as Scholesy also played in midweek in Moscow.
2.Rio must be given some time.no harm in telling him to play for the reserves for a few weeks.Evans is currently in better form.However with vidic suspended we have to play rio on Saturday.Play evans at the Bridge against Chelsea.Rio will get his confidence back soon.
3.Allow Antonio Valencia to take up central positions when we counter attack.his pace is lethal and can trouble any defence.Give nani chances in big games.His pace too can cause problems.Giggsy cannot be expected to deliver always at this age especially in these high tempo games
4.Dont play Wayne Rooney until he becomes a father.His concentration is not 100% on football from the last 3-4 games and i dont blame him.I guess that will be soon though .
5.tell Berbatov to stop working hard and play as the main Attacker so that he can use his height to score some headed goals,He spends to much time in centre of midfield.I am not worried if he dosent work hard.Van Nistelrooy never worked hard but got the goals.Tell Berba to do the same since he lacks pace.
6.Instill some fighting spirit and toughness in the team.The way we played against the dippers and barca in 2007-08 season.That team never gave up without a fight.never lost a game by more than 1 goal margin.
7. Get this defeat out of the way.No point dwelling on it.We are more than good enough to win the league.With Hargo coming back and Obertan looking impressive we can once again go on a brilliant run after christmas like we did last year.No reasson to worry.Remember Chelsea players will go to the African cup of nations and the dippers will self destruct at some point.Plus many players at Chelsea are above 30.They will get tired after christmas and the results will dwindle just like last year.
Are we still talkin about liverpool ….jeazz anywho i was wondering if anyone was a member of the rednews forum
I got sent this link
http://www.rednews.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=531100
I think Its about Emily
Scott,your wrong about this, referee’s help or no help we deserved to loose the match as time and time again i think we were utterly useless..Yeah beating small teams may or may not win us the title,but even small teams are starting to give us a go at us..The truth is Scott,our team lack the creative edge…I think having giggs as a super sub would have been better,valencia was good but not much effective when comes to counter attacking,berbatov actually did something to earn my praise,but still no way to be found when comes to create an opening for himself…Rio has reach his peak,vidic looks good against weaker players but against the best in the world,he will always be found out..Truth in all,even we get carragher sent off,I still could not see United scoring..United are never good as whole of team,some1 needs to be the main star,some1 needs to step up or we will be rubbish against big teams..Its fine to loose to liverpool today, but its not fine to loose if it was a cup final like ROME…
Why does the media reckon Rio’s career has gone downhill? So many papers are claiming Fergie’s dropping Rio for a while and will opt to play Evans against blackburn.
@Fze123
Rios career has not gone downhill but he needs to concentrate on football.His off the field activities are really irritating me now.He is not irreplacable.Of course injuries have affected him but people will always compare his form with that in last 3 years .Same for Vidic.he was not bad on Sunday but not as commanding as in the last 2 seasons either.That is the problem.Rio needs games but he cant make mistakes at the top level because they can cost us.Maybe a few reserve games will make him feel good.
Stop going on about Rios off field activities, they have little or no impact and are no more time consuming or a distraction than any other players activities. The concern with rio comes from an injury he has been carrying since last December, which keeps coming back and restricts his run of games. In all honesty, he shouldnt have travelled to Moscow spending over 8 hours travelling.
Vidics head is in Barcelona, has been since season, with strong rumours saying he will be off in the summer and would have gone last season if it had not been for Ronaldos sale.
De Laat is not at the level needed, he could slot in against the likes of Hull, but not against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Lets get a reality check when saying these unproven players can come in.
Vidic misses tonights game, so will be available for Sat.
Lets not get to carried away by one defeat, yes we have been playing poor all season, but we played poor last season and won the league and got to the European Cup final, not bad for a poor team.
Rio’s off field activities have reached a ridiculous state. Talk about burning the candle at both ends, hard enough for those with regular employment but for a modern professional footballer, it’s crazy.
How much weight has he lost? Enough to be shoved off the ball by a ladyboy!
I’m not trying to blame Rio alone for all our woes, but it’s clear that all is NOT well in the Rio household.
Completely agree with Fletcher’s absence being a factor. But consider this: last season we lost home and away to Liverpool but still won the title. Would you settle for that again? Tough one…
@ aig alex is god, as much as I would want Evans to start ahead of Rio in league games considering current form, this won’t help Rio. The only way he’ll regain his concentration and confidence is by given a run of games, in the reserves possibly, like you said, but I want to see him in today’s starting line-up at Barnsley, and if he has a good game then he can start against Blackburn.
We all dislike his off the field activites but we can’t do anything about them. Rio will keep repeating that football is his “Number 1 priority” but if he continues to make mistakes it will seem that he doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about it. I expect Fergie to give a good talking to Rio, he’s the only person who can have an impact.
@ Tufty
Given that Rio had only arrived back from moscow at about 3.30am following a four-hour flight, why did he choose to attend the premiere of the film in london. Althou the players trained friday lunchtime, yes, but Rio’s trip to london coming on the back of a tough game in Moscow affected him on sunday, he was tired and worn out. He can have as many off field activities he wishes, but they shouldn’t affect his footballing career.
“4.Dont play Wayne Rooney until he becomes a father.His concentration is not 100% on football from the last 3-4 games and i dont blame him.I guess that will be soon though .”
He’s just back from injury and to be honest I thought he played decent. He only had two chances on goal – one of them was a header (never his strongest point) and the other one he finished with venom, except he was inches offside.
Rio as well, I think people need to lay off him a bit – fair enough his balls up against City was awful, but other than that he hasn’t been fully fit. I thought he played well on Sunday and for the goal was beaten by one of the best strikers in the game (who despite his nancying about has a good deal of strength on the ball).
Just because we got beat by the dippers doesn’t mean we have to throw the whole team out the window.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it…. Carrick is not good enough, he kept giving the ball away, he didnt commit to the tackle, all he did was pass to the side or behind him… Can fucking wait till Hargreves is back.. if he and Flecther had of being able to start that game… I cant believe that Lucas of all people bossed the Middle!! I dont go for any of that crap that he should/could of being sent-off.. He wasnt so deal with it… We were not good enough.. I just pray its the game that gives all the lads to good kick up the hole that they needed and that they come out stronger and hungrier then ever…. I’m sure SAF let rip at them for that display.. If we are annoyed at that display/result I can only imagine what he is thinking….
@bigphil2003
i am not saying throw whole team outof the window.Stoke,Wolfsburg,Sunderland and dippers.Rooney has looked a bit off colour for 4 games now.i dont blame .He is going to become a father and that is the happiest moment for anyone in his life.
AS regards to rio.WEll he has set such high standards for himself in the past that if he makes mistakes he will get stick .I have no doubt he will be back to his best but mistakes in league games can be fatal.
i have full faith in the team and we will bounce back
Tufty
4 days is good enough for rio to recover. It was not tireness that did him on Sunday but the lack of confidence.Rio of 2007-08 would have outmuscled Torres with ease.If he has not recovered from injury dont pick him till he is not 100% fit .
Vidic hasnt looked bad since coming but also ahsnt lived up to his standards last year.
Da Laet has to be given a chance.IMO he is better than O shea,Brown and YES EVEN RAFAEL.He just needs the chances.Without him not playing a big game you cant make you conclusions about who is good and who isnt
Sorry aig, my whole post wasn’t directed specifically at you, just the bit about Rooney. Yes he has been off form compared to the start of the season (when he was immense), but I don’t think we should stop playing him as he could come back into form quick as anything.
Some of the papers today are claiming Rio will be dropped for the Blackburn game and Evans will replace him. Correct me if I’m wrong but I kind of assumed Vidic would be suspended and Evans will be replacing HIM. If so I can’t see any way Rio will be dropped if fit.
@bigphil2003
Vidic serves his suspension tonight so he is available on Saturday.
AS for Rooney i just think if he scores in bursts and not consistently he will always be regarded as a talented player but never a world class player like Torres and some others.He has to score consistently .
Heyyo whos lookin forward to United winning tonight with Obertan once again showing his future worth, brown showing he’s big and bad
this should all be a fantastic game in the future of united
forget the past games also once again need help i was wondering if anyone was a member of the rednews forum
I got sent this link
http://www.rednews.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=531100
I think Its about Emily I was just wondering what it is
Good Morning Everyone
“Talk about burning the candle at both ends, hard enough for those with regular employment but for a modern professional footballer, it’s crazy”. – what a stupid comment. Players train for approx 2 hours a day, they have the majority of the day off from approx 12pm. They dont go out getting lashed, so I dont know how you call it burning a candle at both ends.
Its quicker these days to get to london by train, than it is to get along Deansgate at Rush hour!!!
Given the travel to Moscow, injuries and niggles to certain players, some of them should not have travelled to Moscow. Remember, Liverpool played at home on the Tuesday night.
How anyone can say De Laat is better than O’Shea, Brown and Rafael is beyond comprehension, given he has played less than 100 minutes in a Utd shirt in a competetive match.
@Tufty
exactly.the answer to your question is in your comment.On the contrary how can you say Da laet is not good enough too? he has impressed every time he has been given a chance.Brown is inured for half the year. O shea is a decent player.rafael’s defending isnt the best.Give Da Laet a chance.The lad has done well so far.
saying that Liverpool played on Tuesday and we travelled and all that crap is just making excuses.Your fitness levels have to be at their peak.And rio was taken off early too.If you are struggling for form rather than going for movies train harder.Stay back at carrington.
Im wondering if we shud revert to 443 for the nxt few games in the league and champions league. The defence is having a rough time at the minute its not getting enough protection from the midfield. My team for the chelsea game wud be evs, wes, vida, evans, evra, fletch, carrick, ando, berba central wazza on the left, valencia on the rite hand side of the 3.
That shud be 433.
@willierednut
good idea mate.i want to see valencia get more in central positions especially on the break because he can murder terry and carvalho with his pace.Berba can try and play rooney and valencia.Both can start on the wings and then try and cut in.
Our players should show what it means playing for United. On Sunday I got a feeling that most of them did not want to be there. I wonder if the lads are not being able to get motivated enough having won the Premiership three times in the row?
I agree that we hardly deserved anything based on the effort we put in, but on another day with another referee we might have even won. Referees decisions do change matches and had he given the penalty and had we gone 1:0 up, I do not think we would have lost. Despite dippers domination until their goal, I thought we were fairly comfortable. I also think that this is what we should expect from referees at away matches this season, so we should make sure that their decisions do not influence the matches at all.
All is not lost. We are only two points behind the rent boys. Let’s hope that when we meet them soon, the lads will be fired up and do as all proud.