Even before the terrible news that Vidic’s season is over, many of us were already questioning whether the football Gods were conspiring against United with an unusually high rate of injuries this season. Indeed, some have gone further, raising the concern that this is not an isolated phenomenon but the continuation of a trend that has been evident for several years—a fact that would point to a more earthly cause such as human incompetence, rather than the mischievous deeds of some dastardly deity.
Is this season exceptional for injuries, compared to what United typically experience? Is it bad compared to our major competitors? And what about United’s injury record over the longer term – exactly how does that stack up? With those questions in mind, I trundled my mouse over to physioroom.com, captured whatever data was available, pumped it into Microsoft Excel and run the numbers. What I found was generally good news about our longer term record—but it definitely confirms our worst fears about the current season.
Overview
Data is available for all current PL clubs back to August 2002. However, I focused on only six clubs: United, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and City. Partly, this was because of the effort (though now it’s reasonably quick to add another club). More importantly, though, the number of injuries is bound to be affected by how many matches a club plays, and most clubs typically have a significantly lighter schedule than us (since most are not regularly in Europe and do not go far in the various domestic cups). In terms of schedule, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs are probably most comparable to us; and of course, I included City, for obvious reasons.
For each injury, the data includes the player’s name, a brief description of the type of injury, and the date reported. Unfortunately, it does not include the date that the player returned to action. I had been hoping to calculate how many matches each injury cost that player, but it wasn’t possible. Consequently, I wasn’t able to determine whether our injuries are generally more or less severe than those at other clubs.
However, I was able to break the data down into major categories of injury (Ankle, Calf, Hip etc) and I was also able to analyze the data both by calendar year and by season (for the season dates, I counted each season from July 1, since the actual start date moves around, and injuries also occur between seasons).
The Bottom Line
So what of it? How do United fare?
In regards to our current plight, the answer can be summed in one word: bloody shithouse (OK, make that two words). Looking first at the calendar year 2011, already we have reported 65 injuries, making it our third-worst year (since the beginning of 2003), and we still have a handful of matches remaining this year. Our worst year in that period was 2009, when we had 71 injuries, but just one more injury this year will equal our second-worst (66 in 2004). Incidentally, our average for a full calendar year is 56.625, so we are already way above that. Our best year was 2005, with 41.
However, when we break the data down by season, the picture looks dramatically worse.
The data includes nine full seasons (2002-03 to 2010-11) plus this season’s partial data. On average over the nine full seasons, we have reported 57.1 injuries. Our worst season was 2002-03, with 74, and our best was 2005-06, with 46. Last season, we had 60, slightly worse than average.
This season, though, we are already at 40, and the season is not yet at the half-way mark. Although it is difficult to calculate, a rough estimation shows that if we keep going at the current rate, we could end the season with well over 100 injuries. Of course, there’s no way to know for sure. However, when I did the same estimation for the other teams, most actually do appear to be on track for what you would expect based on their history. Only ours and Arsenal’s are wildly out of whack, indicating that we both may be heading for very bad seasons in terms of injury.
I also counted the number of injuries we report each season, between July 1 and December 7. On average, over the previous nine seasons, we reported 27 injuries during that period. This year, as I have already said, it is 40, which is a record for that period. Any way you look at it, this is a horror season.
However, as discussed in the next section, the good news is that United actually seem to be doing OK in the longer term. Our record isn’t the best, but it’s not the worst either – about middle of the pack, in fact. (And our figures look even better when you exclude City, who, as we know, have not generally had a busy schedule until recently.)
The Details
And so, to the details.
1. Number of injuries, by calendar year
| United | Arsenal | Chelsea | Liverpool | Spurs | Man City | |
| 2002 | 36 | 41 | 32 | 27 | 50 | 24 |
| 2003 | 60 | 62 | 45 | 48 | 43 | 44 |
| 2004 | 66 | 69 | 61 | 43 | 72 | 42 |
| 2005 | 41 | 55 | 50 | 49 | 57 | 45 |
| 2006 | 51 | 62 | 38 | 45 | 67 | 47 |
| 2007 | 50 | 58 | 54 | 32 | 58 | 30 |
| 2008 | 54 | 69 | 45 | 27 | 39 | 36 |
| 2009 | 71 | 83 | 49 | 47 | 50 | 68 |
| 2010 | 60 | 75 | 50 | 53 | 71 | 45 |
| 2011 | 65 | 64 | 22 | 40 | 63 | 30 |
| Average* | 56.63 | 66.63 | 49 | 43 | 57.13 | 44.63 |
| Best | 41 | 41 | 32 | 27 | 39 | 24 |
| Worst | 71 | 83 | 61 | 53 | 72 | 68 |
* The Average, Best and Worse figures exclude 2002 and 2011, which are both incomplete years.
2. Number of injuries, by season
| United | Arsenal | Chelsea | Liverpool | Spurs | Man City | |
| 2002-2003 | 74 | 79 | 56 | 44 | 71 | 40 |
| 2003-2004 | 50 | 59 | 56 | 53 | 51 | 48 |
| 2004-2005 | 56 | 62 | 51 | 47 | 73 | 36 |
| 2005-2006 | 46 | 59 | 41 | 39 | 47 | 55 |
| 2006-2007 | 49 | 57 | 47 | 40 | 77 | 36 |
| 2007-2008 | 52 | 60 | 42 | 32 | 47 | 27 |
| 2008-2009 | 61 | 74 | 46 | 31 | 43 | 51 |
| 2009-2010 | 66 | 89 | 58 | 58 | 54 | 64 |
| 2010-2011 | 60 | 64 | 34 | 54 | 79 | 42 |
| 2011-2012 | 40 | 35 | 15 | 13 | 28 | 12 |
| Average* | 57.11111 | 67 | 47.88889 | 44.22222 | 60.22222 | 44.33333 |
| Best | 46 | 57 | 34 | 31 | 43 | 27 |
| Worst | 74 | 89 | 58 | 58 | 79 | 64 |
* The Average, Best and Worse figures exclude 2011-12, which is incomplete.
An analysis of the seasonal data raises a couple of interesting points. First of all, while commonsense might suggest that the rate of injuries increases as we get deeper into a season, the data suggests otherwise. In six of the previous nine seasons, 48% or more of injuries had occurred by this date (December 7), even though a typical season is less than 40% done by then.
Secondly, the average number of injuries suffered by this stage of a season is only 27. We are way above that, with 40. In the period 2002-03 to present, we have never had as many injuries by this stage of a season. Last season, the figure was 32. The season before, it was 36—and both those seasons included the long-term injury to Hargreaves (who hardly counts as a seasonal injury).
3. Types of Injuries
| United | Average | |
| Ankle | 21.5% | 19.8% |
| Knee | 18.1% | 19.8% |
| Hip | 2.9% | 3.1% |
| Calf | 8.5% | 7.8% |
| Shoulder | 1.6% | 1.9% |
| Back | 2.2% | 4.3% |
| Hamstring | 12.8% | 12.4% |
| Groin | 7.4% | 9.5% |
This table shows the percentage of injuries that fall into each category (for example, 21.5% of our injuries were ankle/foot injuries). I did not include all types of injuries, and although I did tabulate this data for all six clubs, I am only including the data for United and the Average here. In general we have held up pretty well—we are slightly better than average in some areas, slightly worse in others. The biggest concern would be ankle injuries, which occur at almost 2% higher than the average rate (especially since this is such a large category for football). Our calf injuries are also running at slightly above the average rate, and perhaps it is worth noting that tackling is one of the main causes of lower-leg injuries generally. Perhaps we aren’t getting as much protection from the referees as some ABUs would have us believe!
On the other hand, we have done well in back injuries (despite Rio’s problems) and groin injuries. We have also done well in shoulder injuries (something I was previously concerned about): although the data shows we are about average, Rafael da Silva’s shoulder problems actually contribute a large proportion of those. When you remove them from the equation, our figures are way better than the average.
(By the way, Arsenal suffer twice as many shoulder injuries as anyone else, and more than three times as many as some. If I was an Arsenal supporter or coach, I would be asking questions about that, especially since shoulder injuries are relatively rare for footballers. But since I am not an Arsenal supporter or coach, I don’t give a shit.)
Overall, though, Arsenal have by far the worst record of the six clubs, in total number of injuries, seasonal averages or annual averages. The Gunners’ season average of 67 is worse than the maximum ever recorded by three of the clubs. Their minimum (57) is as high as our average and almost as high as several teams’ maximum. And looking at the type of injuries they suffer doesn’t offer many clues: apart from the anomaly I mentioned about shoulder injuries, the other categories all seem in line (in terms of percentage). It is not as if, for example, they suffer a disproportionate percentage of lower-leg injuries. Quite simply, their players get injured more often, in every way, and have been doing so over a long period of time.
Conclusion
Although the available data (which comes from physioroom.com) has some limitations, it does provide some comfort by showing that in general, our record is about average. However, Liverpool, Chelsea and City have been consistently and significantly better, and that’s a point of interest.
In City’s case, that may partially be explained by their lighter schedule in previous seasons. However, it should be noted that their rates this season, and this calendar year, are both extremely low—only 12 so far this season, and 30 for the calendar year to date. (I am sure you will join me in hoping their luck runs out sooner rather than later.)
But it is undeniable that, so far, this season has been our worst, and if the current rate continues, it will be our worst by a very large margin.
Man Utd News 24/7
Crocked
We also have Michael Owen!
Oh, and the twins. Throw Owen Hargreaves in there and we’re looking at a big contributory factor!
nemanja counts as ten…
And Anderson..
Bloody amazing analysis, thanks Alistair
Very good research – even when faced with limitations of the data, the author makes it clear what the limitations are, and what analysis could have been done, had such data been available. My compliments to Alistair (if that isn’t Costas’ real name; I mean injuries + stats = perfect storm for our friend from Greece).
So, we aren’t the worst, but below the average. Suprised to see Spurs with so many, not so suprised to see LeArse.
Net-net, it’s a terrible, terrible year w.r.t injuries – its official now. QED.
Jeet
Could very well be Costas actually! hahaha
Hope you are well my friend
Delighted you’ve done that Scott I’ve been getting a bit paranoid about our backroom staff for the last while as it seems like our players are literally dropping like flies in some games (chica, clevs etc)
Would be interested to see you do an article on the Meulensteen/Phelan joint assistant combo and if it is really producing the stuff we want or if they should be demoted back down to coaches. Early season form suggests that the Coerver training was coming to fruition but that now seems to be a false dawn
Really interesting figures; a great post Alistair. I think it’d be great to compare how each team faired during the seasons where they were hit most for injuries.
If you look at seasons 2003-2004, 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 all stats are reasonably quite low, but we didn’t do particularly well during those seasons. Seasons 2007-2008, 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 were excellent seasons for us but we had more injuries throughout.
Does Sir Alex work better when he has to rotate his squad? Hmm.
Alistair,
Fantastic piece of work pal, much appreciated for the efforts you have put in..
This season its gonna be a tough one if injuries continue like this, we are already on 40, thats too much and 3-4 of them are long term..
this calls for the attention of UNITED medical scout COSTAS
Cedars, who the fuck is Cedars?
btw,
How the hell Did Yaya fucking Toure escape this…?
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/yaya-toure-kicks-slaps-juan-mata/
When the injuries rise above Arsenal you know you’re in trouble.
Spence
You raise a decent point, I remember us going for something like 160 games or go with a changed side every time so I guess Sir Alex does like to rotate!
Spence,
you make a good point for debate there..
Good insight on the successful seasons when suffered with most injuries..
Cedars,
what is going on,
we are posting at the same time albeit you are a bit quicker..
you talked about costas and then Spence statement and even i did the same
anyway, Cedars, who the fuck is cedars?
Hows your banner my good friend?
Or so not or go of course! Would not be me with out a typo!
Doing well, Cedars! Hope all’s well at ur end too!
@Spence: Very good point – but I think it’s actually the other way around. Because there are so many injuries, SAF is forced to rotate less. Maybe that’s the reason behind better results?
Sandeep
Cedars? Never heard of him or her for that matter! hahaha
I am much better these days, thanks for asking
Number of days out/games missed would have been a more appropriate analysis. A player could get injured 5 times a year and miss only 2 games. Another player could get injured once and miss the whole season. I know which one I’d prefer.
It’s worth looking into what types of injuries they were and to whom. Fringe players with minor injuries could have contributed to the statistics heavily during those successful seasons but would not have had a huge impact on our performances. As Alistair points out, it’s unfortunate that it doesn’t give a date as to when they returned from injury as this would have a huge impact on the data. Some injuries might fall during a period where the player doesn’t miss any league games for example.
Cedars,
I remember that large spell of games with changed sides too – I think what’s interesting is that, although Fergie is one for rotation and keeping a strong squad, it would suggest from those stats that United do better when Fergie has to rotate his team, rather than rotating for experimentation.
As the great man himself once said, ‘When the chips are down, they don’t let me down’.
no girlfriend springs to mind
Spence
Great point that, I think the boss looks for the best formula for each game as it were…
Loved that quote by the way
Jeets,
Excellent point that, I hadn’t thought of it that way around.
I think to fully understand the long-term effects of injured players in quantity, you’d have to really analyse which players were injured and for how long for, which position was effected and if the injured player was one of the names on the first eleven.
There are so many variables to this data, but it makes for very interesting reading.
Sandeep1878- Ive just wrote to the FA asking what action are they joing to take, i have a lot of time on my hands ha,i am waiting for their responce.
Players like Park are so vital yet not a regular, same goes for Fletch and Carrick….. Stating the obvious but its very much a squad game these days….
I remember during the 80′s we would go for countless matches unchanged and a time when you were only allowed 1 sub (or was it 2? Cannot remember) Only doubt each week was Robbo, bugger was always injured which depressed the fuck out of me
Even if the FA is forced to take action they will probably ban him for games in January which he wont be available anyways due ANC in January 2012.
A brilliant article! Excellent research and very revealing, thank you!
I’ll study it while re-reading it, then comment more specifically.
ps Do I sense the fine penmanship and erudite analysis of StatesideAussie herein?
Good day Reds!
CedarsDevil, looking forward to your latest pi-up-boy leading the line against city?
Mikekelly12, follow doctor’s orders, my friend!
dazbomber, you’ll get a lot more satisfaction with something else in your hand.
Jeet, the rotation that we employ is the reason why we outshine our rivals late in the season.
Sandy, your comments are spaced out, brother!
dazbomber
Hope the cunts will reply you.
I know they will just for the heck of it..
Media and FA would run down our players if they do anything as such..
Hope he gets a 3 game ban and ref, wtf he was doing standing infornt?
Cheers pal
A good read this, spend your ten minutes, sorry if already posted
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/975804-8-reasons-why-manchester-united-will-rise-once-more#/articles/975804-8-reasons-why-manchester-united-will-rise-once-more
Spence – You aren’t the same lad are you that used to post a year or two back under “Spencer” are you?
Hello King Eric…
Sandeep1878- I was told that when its a United player the London media mob the FA so fuck em.
Cracking name StatesideAussie!
Super article mate. Costas will be creaming himself, over this lol.
smartalex
I am indeed, the beauty that is RVP will put them bitters in their place next weekend
Smartalex
Indeed mate. Sat with my leg elevated, tubigrip on watching Christmas at River Cottage!! Just moved house so no skysports yet!!
Dazbomber
Let me know if you here back from the fuckwitts!
King Eric
How you pal? When’s jnr due? You gonna get to Wigan Dya think?
I have decided to post a bit more often on here I think, rather than my usual habit of just reading every word of every article and having a good look through the comments.
Anyway, excellent article, very well researched. Much better than the general conjecture spewed up by the mainstream media, based on no more than the opinion of the author. So well researched in fact, I am surprised it isn’t using the Harvard referencing system! As someone else has pointed out, it gives an explanation of the source, the limitations of the source and even a reccomendation for further research.
on the topic of how united are coping with the injuries, I think this basically vindicates ferguson’s belief in having such an inflated squad.
Five strikers in the squad who could walk into all but a few premiership teams, at least four top-class wide men, a few decent centre-mids (debatable, but I think ‘decent’ is the right word), and more than a handful of very good centre backs (two or three of whom are in the ‘world class’ bracket and two or three of whom can play anywhere across the back-line) with more than two options between the goal posts.
An injury free united could field at least two teams who would probably at least qualify for the champions league.
having said all that, the aim is obviously to challenge the likes of barcelona for european supremacy and I think we are a good way off that at the minute. a lot of young players still to develop and probably a few signings needed as well.
more than enough quality to fight for and possibly (even probably) retain the english league title, but I think the premiership is far from the european powerhouse it has been made out to be in the past.
Most of that hype was based on the number of teams reaching the latter stages of the european cup, but how many english teams have gone on to actually win the thing in those years.
a few times there have been three english semi-finalists, only for the fourth team to go on and win it (ac milan and barcelona).
we are united. being the best in england does not automatically mean you will be up there with the absolute best in the world. being the best in england is not be good enough for united.
we need to be the best in the world.
but maybe that is an unrealistic demand to place on a team? I can’t help it.
win against QPR and we go on top of the bloody shiny bank
Wow, nice research.
Inevitable stuff, these injuries. And its even more distressing considering how these injuries were sort of ‘freak’ ones, and not really from that bad challenges. Maybe except Clev, which started off with Bolton game. Like how i didn’t really realize the twins were gonna be out for long. And how Vida landed bad on his knee. And Chicharito’s injury, when no one was even near him. And Owen, Ando were training ground injuries? Oh, and Berba a knock. Sheesh. Anything wrong with the medical team i wonder.
@King of Stretford End
“anything wrong with the medical team I wonder”
I think that might be the whole point of the article.
nothing much wrong with the medical team, this season has been a bit of a freak, according to the statistics gathered by physioroom.com
II posted on a previous thread this morning that battenberg would be told to find room in his report to state that he saw all THREE offences by Toure and found neither to be cautionable….. Low and behold!!!! Fucking dodgy FA cunts!!
Cunts of the highest order may I add….. The FA that is
“Indeed, some have gone further, raising the concern that this is not an isolated phenomenon but the continuation of a trend that has been evident for several years—a fact that would point to a more earthly cause such as human incompetence, rather than the mischievous deeds of some dastardly deity.”
Who might that be?
Anyway, cheers for the article Alistair. Definitely not a random phenomenon imo. Imagine how different things would have been at the top this season if City didn’t have 28 injuries less than us…
@Invade the moon with keane:
Yeap. Our injuries of all been the freak sort, but i do still have a slight misgiving. Like how some players were stipulated to be back within a certain period of time, but took way longer. Like Welback, who took longer than though. And even Clev.
But of course, you can’t really put a fixed timeline on these things i guess. It’s better to bring on a player when he’s fully fit instead of putting him on when he’s neither here nor there. Ha, I’m contradicting myself.
@Costas: Somebody from zululand, me thinks? Particularly the alliteration with “deeds of dastardly deities”
Terrific piece of work, Alistair, greatly appreciated. Lots to think on. Time, surely for someone to say United are ‘made of glass’ this season. Those that live in glass bodies should stone the first cast, or something.
Sir Giles
‘Time, surely for someone to say United are ‘made of glass’ this season. Those that live in glass bodies should stone the first cast, or something.’
Classic
Sir Giles
Forgot to add next to classic ‘and cracked the fuck out of me’ !
@King of Stretford End
It is hard to know really. It is very easy to start believing we are just cursed or something. but we have been lucky enough to have had players in the past that no matter how much you kick them they keep getting back up. cristiano ronaldo was one of the most fouled player in the league but one of the least injured. i think a lot of it simply comes down to the players.
@mikekelly
spot on. was it you who said in the carrick thread something like “will he recieve retrospective punishment because it was missed by the referee… will he fuck!”
i don’t know if that was the exact words but I remember reading that and thinking ‘fucking spot on’.
To be fair lads, it could be worse, we could be forcing Carrick to play centre-back again……
@Jeet
Heh, maybe! Don’t know what the deities have planned for us, but if we don’t do our best to prepare the players physically, then an injury crisis will be the order of the day every 3-4 months.
Invade the moon
I think that was someone else but prior to that I guessed the ref would come out (after an FA official had spoken with him) and suddenly put in his report that he saw the incidents. This means the FA can now not punish Toure retrospectively!! Obviously complete bollocks. If he had seen it and thought a raised hand did not warrant a red card ( which I thought was clear as day in the rules!) then he would have at least had a word with him during the game, I don’t think that happened!
Sir Giles
Those in glass houses should fit the best EVRArest!!
@mikekelly
point is, if it was rooney, he would be slaughtered for it. no surprise to hear you say that he will escape punishment for it. I wonder should we bring back swear watch?
‘All the stuff about being a drinking club, or having players who were not good enough, I treat as rubbish’
Guess who said that and your prize will be in the mail
I refuse to research it, or guess, because there is only one Bryan Robson.
smartalex
You beauty, I suppose you know me so well!
Sandeep – Hello mate.
MikeKelly – Hello there mate. He is due on Saturday thanks and if he doesnt arrive then he will be induced 10 days after making it the 27th so I sincerely hope so pal. Already missed three games. So yes I am hoping he has arrived by Boxing day so we can meet up for a pint.
It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
@King Eric
Apologies for delay, the user ‘Spencer’ isn’t me; I’m just plain ol’ Spence.
Boxing Day is my birthday King Eric, so you’re in for a handful, I’m afraid.
The suspence was killing me, thanks Spence!
Spence
Keep posting away pal and like smartalex the ‘suspense’ was killing me too! hahaha worth a two pence may I add!
I was positively pensive!
smartalex – Is it? Nice one pal.
Spence – No worries mate. Cheers.
@Cedars & smartalex
I’m a regular reader of this blog, and I’m always checking the comments too, but I must have missed this Spencer… what’s the story if you don’t mind me asking?
King Eric
Run along and give the Mrs a much needed foot rub……. I honestly wish her and you of course all the best pal
Nice one King Eric. We’ll keep our fingers crossed for you.
Well done Smartalex, it could only have been Robbo! My mates birthday boxing day too. Let’s hope you get a good present from the boys in the form of 3 points!
Spence
Which story pal? Enjoying your posts by the way
Good evening Red Devils around the world,
was going through a ABU news that gives us no chance of winning anything, there are plenty such anyway..
its sickening when press writes us off..
but their hate makes us stronger, that seize mentality is coming again and it will pay dividents..
for fuck sake they are criticizing Manchester United, the greatest club in the world that has lost just one league title in the last years and that too by a single point..
we will come back and get you, for now keep publishing the shit about us because we dont want to spoil your living. for you to sell something, there will never be anything better than UNITED…
and yeah the so called average fucking team won us the title last time around..
agreed we have lost lot of experience but this team is gonna be champions come may,
Get in there lads and fuck ‘em..
BELIEVE
Manchester United
* in the last 5 years…
I live in the land of the Zulu, so it seems statistically unlikely that Alistair hails from here.
No, you can take Bruce out the outback, not the reverse. My senses remain sound.
Cryptically, it seems that 2 of RoM’s favourite sons are in fact brothers.
Al and Fred Astair, the FleetSt-feted pair.
Spence – Hello mate. I remember your previous contributions.
Spencer stopped posting at the beginning of last year. I don’t remember anything amiss. King Eric’s knowledge and memory of RoM far exceeds mine. He’s the one to ask.
Cedars,
I was just curious as to why you and smartalex were in suspense about whether I was Spencer or not, and thanks :]
smartalex,
Ahhhh, there we are then, thankyou :]
Mikekelly12,
It’s all I want on that day. I’m lucky in that we usually play so I always have a great day!
Spence, the reason we were ‘claiming’ to be in “suspence” (sic) is the rather unremarkable similarity in the pronunciation of the words ‘Spence’ and ‘suspense’. I bet you wish you’d never asked!
Drivel, passing for humour, but passing nonetheless.
Don’t leave us in Marks and Spence? The fear of the unknown is not a funny place. Ask KR!
OK, I own up, the article is mine, so thanks for the compliments fellas (and cheers to SmartAlex, who was on the money with his guess).
Spence raised an interesting point about whether the data shows a correlation between a bad year for injuries and a bad year for results. I still have the spreadsheet, so I may look into that sometime, though I suspect it will be difficult to determine cause and effect.
Smartalex
Humour is an inex spence ive commodity bringing joy ro us all no matter how drivelious.
@smartalex,
Haha! D’uh! Now I feel a bit silly.
My head hasn’t been the same since I realised late on last night that I cheered a Chelsea win… it just feels wrong.
The bit about our record being significantly worse than any of the other big clubs says it all to me.
Our record may be about average but that’s just it. We’re not average, we’re Manchester United.
Still enjoying last night’s result. If we can deal with QPR, they’re suddenly into what will feel like a must win situ for them against Arsenal later that day.
“If Chelsea drop points, the cat’s out in the open. And you know what cats are like – sometimes they don’t come home.”
One of my fave quotes from the Gaffer.
Isn’t it about time he went after Mankini now?
@Stateside Aussie: Great articel – congratulations!
Stats aside StatesideAussie, another great delivery! Well done sir!
I take far more relief from your study that dismay.
The over-riding fact is that we’ve done damn well this season despite a severe injury crisis.
These players will come back refreshed. This allays fears that if our unusually good points tally is indicative of early peaking, we might struggle later. The fact is that we are already ahead of schedule points-wise, and we will have a big squad of fresh players for the final assault.
Looking good.
still reaing but is Alistair Langford-Wilson aka Costas, please please please say it is so
*reading*
its stateside apparently. Wonderful research.Very comprehensive.
Statesideaussie,
Fantastic post, a really in-depth take on our injury situation. I’m a graphic designer studying in university at the moment and I’m very keen on information graphics; I can’t promise anything but I’m very tempted to create a poster based on the statistics you’ve provided here.
I’d love to see the further analysis on how the injuries affected the overall season of each club. Keep up the great work!
So is stateside aka Costas ? Now I’m confused!!
Great read stateside as usual.
Mikekelly12, how driveliciously your lisp encephalates. Incongruogramatitis is contagious.
Spence … I’m not sure how to do the cause/effect analysis of injuries vs overall results, since a large part of our matches involve knockout comps. The “commonsense expectation” would be that injuries increase with the number of matches, yet in a knockout comp, “more matches” indicates a better result (since you went further in the comp). That would seem to lead to a contradiction, and I’m not sure how to unravel it. But I wlll have a think about it. Anyway, got some errands to run…
Costas is only Costas
110% Greek original
Now Stateside is an Aussie Stateside – the point being that their is no Greek in him
Look: Stateside and then Aussie!
Afternoon United
off topic so forgive me fella but what has the world come to?
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/995950/jonathan-woodgate:-only-spurs-on-par-with-man-city?cc=5739
One more point:
Costas is still The Stats Man
However he has a rival by the looks at it
Let the stats rivalry begin in earnest
Contenders Ready!
Gladiators Ready!
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2
Wait…
Stat Men Ready!
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2
1…
sorry for the confusion, my guess at the writer of the piece was Costas. He’s the ROM physician so i just assumed it was him. and he does sound like an “Alistair”
StatesideAussie,
Can open, worms everywhere.
holy crap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmL9DyGaMoQ
Off topic so apologies but went on to a city blog and this was actually written without jest…”if we are going to play like Barcelona, we need to play like Barcelona do when they haven’t got the ball – and we stopped doing that” who the fuck do they think they are?! Fans likening themselves to Barca!! Fucking hilarious! They also went on to say that the media love Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and United!!! Truly deluded!!
Fletcher has been diagnosed with ulcerative colitis.
Will be taking a break from football – training and playing – to recover.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing him again this season.
@Mikekelly12
what were you doing on a city blog?
Alistair aka StatesideAussie..
awesome article..great reserach work and lotsa efforts behind this
kanchelskis – Wow! That explains a lot. Very difficult news for the lad. Get Well Fletch!
Get well soon Fletch
I guess we’ll be buying that midfielder once for all
My sources tell me that Mrs Sneijder is indeed in Manchester checking out the curry houses for the impending transfer in January
My sources also tell me that Mario Goetz has bought a sun tanning studio in cheshire
And that Ganso and Neymar have joined Raph and Fab in The Glass House production this Christmas to test the waters of moving to England
‘Darren Fletcher is taking an extended break from football as the Manchester United midfielder recovers from a serious health issue, the club have revealed.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2073633/Darren-Fletcher-takes-extended-break-football-health-issues.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
A club statement read: ‘On behalf of Darren Fletcher, Manchester United wishes to announce that he is taking an extended break from football for health reasons. Over the past year he has had several absence periods which we have attributed to a viral illness in order to respect his right to medical confidentiality. Darren has, in fact, been suffering from ulcerative colitis (a chronic inflammatory bowel condition) for some time preceding this.’
‘Whilst he was able to maintain remission of symptoms for a considerable period this has proved more difficult recently and Darren’s continued desire to play and his loyalty to both his club and country has probably compromised the chances of optimising his own health and fitness. He has therefore accepted medical advice to take an extended break from the demands of training and playing in order to afford the best chance possible of achieving full remission once again.’
‘We request that his privacy is respected and hope that the removal of the additional stress associated with speculation regarding his health will also aid his recovery.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2073633/Darren-Fletcher-takes-extended-break-football-health-issues.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Redblizzard
My mates are city fans (spit, puke). They contribute on city blogs as I do here. I go on sometimes to see what they’ve posted after games so I have some ammunition when I meat them in the pub.
Fuck me Fletch!! Get well soon fella!
Heartbreaking fucking news that about Fletcher. As bad, or worse than Vidic.
The poor soul must have been going through hell for us, for a long time too.
Get well son!
RIOFERDY5
says we gonna miss 2 big game players in Vida and Fletcherinho..
Indeed…
Update this threads stats in Real Time StatesideAussie!
No wonder his form dipped. What a fucking legend being able to play premier league, champions league and international football with that condition! I feel bad for questioning his form! Good luck with the recovery Fletch. Time for someone to step up!
Oh God. Just read about Fletch. Hope he’s okay, not anything serious. He getting well is of utmost importance. Football’s second to that.
Maybe Hargreaves’ comments weren’t so out of line.
We can’t keep anyone fit for long runs of games.
Great article Stateside, a joy to read especially as it went on to prove what I’ve been saying.
Yup, this article just about confirms my suspicion all along, that this is, to date, one of our worst seasons, injury-wise.
I believe that we tend to suffer more injuries than most other clubs because of the demands placed on us. We’re always challenging on all fronts and we have a heavier schedule than most. Besides, we’re involved in very intense games week in week out because every opponent we face attempts to create a ‘cup tie’ situation for us. I certainly do not believe that any of the other teams has to face this situation every week.
Well, that’s my take. I certainly hope that we’ll get our players back sooner than expected and that the 2nd half of the season will see much less injuries.
Sad news about Fletch, the wordings of the press release makes it look pretty serious. i mean the first paragraph “On behalf of Manchester United……….”. Looks like he’s taking a break from all physical activities
More than worrying about what Fletch’s absence will do the midfield, I’m way more worried about him recovering fully. All the articles make it sound serious. And it’s an illness, a health issue, not a bone or ligament problem. Take your time and get well completely Fletch.
Stateside – Is it yours? Nice work mate. Never put you down as an Alistair!!
Spence – No story mate, Spencer was one of my favourite posters on here.
Awful news about Fletcher, just fucking awful. I hope he gets well and can come back, for our sake and for his.
SmartAlex … here’s the real-time update: Fletcher wasn’t previously listed as injured or ill in my stats, so that now makes calendar 2011 our second-worst year (equal to 2004). It also means we have had four long-term injuries/illnesses this season: TC, Ando, Vidic and now Fletcher. Unfortunately, I don’t have enough data to know for sure, but I am certainly struggling to remember anything comparable in recent history.
Slim … Costas sounds like an “Alistair”? But isn’t he Greek? Lol. Alistair is a Scottish variant of that fine old Greek name, Alexander. Though so far as I know, I don’t have a drop of Scots (or Greek) blood in me. Scotch yes, Scots no! Ouzo yes, Greek no!
Lord Alister!
A real-time update of my 14:17 comment is that when you also consider that Fletcher has only occasionally been available to Sir Alex, the over-riding fact is that we’ve done damn well this season despite a severe injury crisis.
It seems extremely doubtful that Fletcher or Vidic will play again this season, but the others will be back refreshed and played into form for squeaky-bum time.
Fletcher’s illness brings us to 41 so this season. For the period up to December 7, that makes it our worst in the last 10 seasons. Prior to the report of his illness, we had 40, which equaled the 09/10 season as our worst.
With data for 6 clubs over 10 years each, there are 60 seasons of stats to compare. Of those 60 seasons, only three have been worse (for the period to Dec 7): Arsenal with 45 in 09/10, Spurs twice (43 in 10/11 and 42 in 02/03).
So there you have it: this season for United is one of the four worst for these six clubs over the last 10 seasons.
SmartAlex … yes, I agree. To be 2nd, and only 2 points off the pace, at this time of the year, having suffered more than 3 times the number of injuries as Shitty, puts us in a very good light. It is definitely cause for optimism. Surely, not even the glummest pessimist could predict that our horror run of injuries will continue — or that Shitty’s run of charm will continue either (only 12 injuries this season? What the fuck is up with that?).
As I noted, overall we have fared quite well. Still, I can only gaze with envy at the injury track-record of the rent boys and dippers. For them to have been consistently better, over a reasonably long period of time, does raise eyebrows. I am extremely reluctant to speculate about causes, but given that our Carrington facility is widely and frequently touted as state-of-the-art and among the best in the business, it does make one wonder.
Perhaps it’s as simple as the extra 5% that Sir Alex is able to glean from our players brings us Silverware and comes at a cost.
Especially when World Cup / Euro squads take our players that have already depleted their reserves and drain them completely.
2008-2009 stats are interesting. We had way more injuries than Liverpool and still ended up winning the title ahead of them, not to mention winning a League Cup and going to 2 UCL finals, winning one.
Clearly we’ve been more impressive as a squad than the other five clubs this season coz despite suffering way more injuries, we’re 2nd in the league 2 points behind Shitey. Thanks for this analysis, Scott.
Table 3 should also include the league average for the same injuries minus United.
Saad – Don’t forget, we had a genius leading us in 08/09. The vermin had Rafa the buffoon!
Saad … The average is based on just the 6 clubs, not the entire league. I haven’t crunched the figures for the enire league, because it’s quite a bit of work and I haven’t had time. It was easy enough to calculate a new average based only on Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Shitty, though. It didn’t make much difference. Here it is:
Ankle:
United: 21.5%
Average (all six): 19.8%
(Average, minus United): 19.4%
Knee:
United: 18.1%
Average (all six): 19.8%
Average (five): 20.1%
Hip:
United: 2.9%
Average (all 6): 3.1%
Average (5): 3.2%
Calf:
United: 8.5%
Average (all 6): 7.8%
Average (5): 7.6%
Shoulder:
United: 1.6%
Average (all 6): 1.9%
Average (5): 1.9%
Back:
United: 2.2%
Av (6): 4.3%
Av (5): 4.7%
Hamstring:
United: 12.8%
Av (6): 12.4%
Av (5) 12.3%
Groin:
United: 7.4%
Av (6): 9.5%
Av (5) 9.9%
Nice article!
Interesting figures, especially the high injury numbers in successful seasons.
One thing to consider is that we probably go further in competitions in these successful seasons and therefore play more games, and a higher rate of games at the end of the season.
Haven’t looked specifically yet but would be interesting to see if injury numbers are higher in seasons after international tournaments, where players don’t get a full summer break?
Also, 09/10 seems to be a bad year for injuries for EVERY team. Definitely above average for all teams, wonder why? Could it be the weather?!
09/10 is the WORST year for Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool AND City! Significantly above average for us and slightly above average too for Spurs. Strange.
90% of our injuries are the twins and michael owen. Take them out of the stats and we have 5 injuries on average a year.
Also re ankle injuries we do get some hard tackles and we need to improve our Barca style diving to avoid the, Barca players spend half of each game resting on the grass and playing dead.
The figure missing here is the number of games played per season – the stats dont make sense without them.
Over the last 5 yrs United have played more games – FA Cup, Carling, European – we played more games than Arsenal and Chelsea – I would guess at least 10 more – so the stats need to be weighted and divided by number of games to make sense and mean something.
Scott, I’m an Arsenal fan, but I did really enjoy reading article, even if pitched to United fans. Good work.
Sorry, Alastair I meant…
@NBI … I noted some data limitations in the original article. I am trying to compile data on the number of matches played by each team each season, but it is an arduous task. I am not sure how useful it will be, given that the duration of individual injuries is not known, but we will see. I’m not sure I agree that without this information, the stats “don’t make sense.” I most definitely do not agree that Owen and the twins account for 90% of our injuries. According to the data, Rafael has had a total of 13 injuries (which is a lot), but Fabio has only had 4 and Owen only 5. As noted, this only counts the number of injuries, not their duration. But if I could get the duration data, my guess is that long-term injuries like those to Hargreaves and TonyV would still mean that Owen and the twins do not account for 90% of our injuries.
@McQueen … the point about us playing more games (since we tend to go further in cup competitions) is something I commented on earlier. In some ways, it raises a bit of a puzzle. On the one hand, if injuries affect our results (which is the usual assumption), then logic would dictate we’re less likely to progress in cup competitions when we have a lot of injuries (and therefore, likely to play fewer matches). But if that’s true, and we play fewer matches, then the same logic would dictate that we should have fewer injuries. So “more injuries” leads to “worse performances”, which leads to “fewer matches”, but of course, “fewer matches” should mean “fewer injuries”; meanwhile “fewer injuries” should mean “better performances”, which should lead to “more matches” and therefore “more injuries”.
Since those scenarios don’t make sense, I suspect the truth is that we do suffer more injuries as we play more matches, but that the squad is able to overcome these and achieve in spite of them. So although injuries may make it more difficult for us to win, we do nevertheless keep winning — which is a testament to the quality of our squad (despite what some on here think) and our coaches and, of course, the peerless guidance of SAF.
@StatesideAussie: Great work, great article, thks.
Fergie defends our medical or sports science dept. But u do detect a bit of unhappiness sometimes with all the injuries.
He said the next step is building that new medical facility at Carrington. I hope centralising everything in one new purpose built facility will help reduce our injury problems.
Supposedly in the future we dont have to use Bridgewater for medicals on new signings, will be done ay Carrington.
Thanks SA.
D light u’v thrown on the injuries to our players has bn a Godsend.as I’ve stated previously,we need to seek alternative therapy.I for one subscribe to faith healing.not wishing to sound like a bigot yet wit God ALL things are possible!lets take out time to pray and fast for our lads fellas.thanks.
Wow, great article, and great analysis.
As an Arsenal fan this is one time when I am not that happy for being at the top of the table.
At least it confims what Arsenal fans have always thought, we get waaaaaaaaay too many injuries for whatever reason.
I still didn’t get why the arsenal players get injured a lot… And why man shitty and Liverfool players don’t get injured as much as the others… Anyways I hope our luck turns the other way around and the players stop getting injured that much…
Lebo manc – it’s quite simple my friend:
Wiseman’s arsenal players are made of crystal, they ‘ping’ nicely, but shatter easily.
Our United players are brutally attacked by Premiership neanderthals, and unprotected by the insipid referees under Bernstein’s control.
As it is now, so was it always. We overcome these trials as a matter of course.
ps Wiseman: Fair comment from a respected and sensibly disliked Gooner, cheers!
How could you wish injuries on other teams? out of order if you ask me.
@mjhhli … if you’re referring to the comment in my article (where I said, “I am sure you will join me in hoping their luck runs out sooner rather than later.”), the comment was meant in a light-hearted way. I have never wished actual injury on any player: even when Hargreaves moved to City I was quite outspoken in my criticism of those on here who wished him serious and permanent harm.
Smartalex
Well ya thx you made it sound easy
Satesideaussie
I always liked Hargreaves and I felt really bad for him when he offered united to stay at the club for free for a full season and they refused. And ya I wished injuries on other teams and players…. Especially balloteli, I HATE him, he tries to act like cantona too… I was also really pissed when he had that “why always me” shirt in the derby