In March 2006, The Republik of Mancunia blog was born. Having become tired of reading dross like this and this, I felt like something had to be written to counter act the doom and gloom that surrounded Manchester United in the press.
Martin Samuel, then at The Times, compared United’s situation to that of the fall of the Roman Empire. He laughed off the notion of us being in a transitionary period and claimed that just like Liverpool before us, our domination was now over. “A team in transition or a club in decline? Brick by brick, the fall of the United empire gathers pace.”
Maybe I was naive, maybe I was blinded by loyalty or maybe I was in denial, but I just couldn’t see it being the end. We were in transition, I was sure of it, and whilst I wasn’t expecting us to win the league any time soon, thanks to the monster that was Roman Abramovich’s Chelsea FC, I thought we’d be there or there abouts.
Edwin Van der Sar, Rio Ferdinand, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Louis Saha, Gabriel Heinze, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, Wes Brown and Ryan Giggs, amongst others, provided the quality experience. Then there were teenagers Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo who were only going to get better, as well as decent enough squad players like Park Ji-Sung, John O’Shea and Alan Smith. No, we weren’t going to win the Treble with that but it was hardly the awful side that the press made it out to be.
In the summer of 2006, months after the blog started (and next to nobody read it), some comments from The Mirror Chief Sports Writer, Oliver Holt, really started to grate on me. He was dismissive and disrespectful towards Sir Alex Ferguson and didn’t rate our players at all. He said we’d never be able to win the league if we sold Ruud. He reckoned that Nemanja Vidic wouldn’t get in any top 4 team and that essentially we had no chance against Chelsea. I saved these articles with the hope that one day I would be able to dig them out and wear my very smug grin.
Less than 12 months later, we were the Champions of England, having reached the FA Cup final and Champions League semi-finals. We went on to win the title for the following two years and won plenty more trophies on top, including the European Cup. All that shite that got written about us in 2005 and 2006 became utterly laughable.
To be fair to Oliver Holt, after our Champions League success in 2008, he sort of ate humble pie, in an article where he sung the praises of Sir Alex. I say “sort of” because Holt wasn’t overly keen to confess just how strongly he had written the manager off just two years earlier.
If there’s one thing Ferguson doesn’t need to worry about any more, it’s the applause. It’ll never die out. Not for him. Not now. Because on Thursday, he erased the last quibble about his greatness as a manager by winning the Champions League for a second time. There weren’t many doubts anyway.
There were plenty of doubts and Holt was one of the biggest doubters of the lot! When he joined Twiter last week I couldn’t miss the opportunity to throw quotes in his face from articles of years gone by and to be fair to the bloke, he took it on the chin and wasn’t half as cocky as I was expecting him to be.
So, having given this some context, I can now getting cracking with this Holt interview. As much as it pains me to say it, after years of slagging off what he writes on a regular basis, it turns out ol’ Ollie is a pretty decent chap.
Scott the Red: You’re a Stockport County fan right? Who did you grow up hating more – United or City?
Oliver Holt: I didn’t hate either of them. I loved both of them, which I know is anathema to most City and United fans. Stockport played their homes games on Friday nights back in the Seventies when I started going to watch them. So I watched Stockport on a Friday night and then whichever of City or United was at home on Saturday. I grew up in Alderley Edge and went to school in Macclesfield so I had lots of mates from both sides of the divide.
STR: So, being from and working in Manchester for so long, does it make you laugh when you hear City fans say that Manchester is blue?
OH: I take that with a pinch of salt, to be honest. It’s garbage. Manchester’s split down the middle as far as I can see and I have a lot of respect for both sets of fans.
STR: Very diplomatic. And untrue. So, how often did you go to Old Trafford and Maine Road as a lad?
OH: I went all the time. Like a lot of us, probably, I was a mad football watcher when I was a teenager. I went to about 80 or 90 games a season. Wrote them all down in one of my school exercise books to keep a record. I went through phases of going to one more than the other with City and United. I followed United home and away in the mid-1980s in the Atkinson years. Probably my happiest memories of being a football fan are the United cup runs of 1983 and 1985. Ray Wilkins and Norman Whiteside were my United heroes so both those Cup Finals were pretty special, particularly 1985. I went to City a lot, too, but not to as many away games. Peter Barnes was my City hero but I liked Paul Lake a lot, too. I started watching City when Joe Corrigan, Asa Hartford and Dennis Tueart were in the side and I was sitting behind the goal in the North Stand when Raddy Antic scored that famous goal that put City down. But my dad was from Stockport and he used to take me to Edgeley Park and the whole sense of community and the link with the past drew me towards them more and more.
STR: I’m sure a lot of United fans will be shocked to hear you spent so much time following our team up and down the country, given some of the things you’ve written. For example, in the summer before United won the title in 2007, you claimed Ferguson’s judgment was waning faster than everybody thought when he sold Ruud van Nistelrooy and didn’t replace him. You were wrong then but what do you think about Ferguson’s judgement these days?
OH: Okay, so this is mea culpa time. We all get things wrong and I got plenty of things about Fergie spectacularly wrong. There was a time a few years back when he got sucked into that row about Rock of Gibraltar and he bought Djemba Djemba, Liam Miller, Bellion and the rest when I thought he was losing it. I really thought his time was up and that his presence was damaging the club. I even wrote a book about it, so that turned out well. Funnily enough, it wasn’t a best-seller. Back then, I think you could make a case that after more than 15 years at one of the biggest clubs in the world, one European Cup wasn’t that much of a return. You can’t make that case any more. Moscow and another hatful of league titles changed that.
As for his current judgment, I find it hard to criticise him. Maybe it’s because I don’t want to get my fingers burned again. I don’t think the current United side is a great side but it’s as good as anything there is in the division. There was a long time when I thought Fletcher wasn’t going to make it but Fergie persisted with him and I think he’s matured into a fine player. As you pointed out on Twitter recently, I also slagged off Evra and Vidic soon after they arrived and they have proved to be brilliant acquisitions. I haven’t seen enough of Gibson to make a judgment but Hernandez looks like he’s a terrific buy.
STR: A few months after questioning his judgment, you said “whatever United go on to achieve this season or in seasons to come, nothing changes the fact that Ferguson should have quit in 2002 when he said he was going to quit.” He went on to win three league titles, the European Cup, the World Club Cup and two League Cups. I can assume you no longer believe he should have quit when he said he was going to, but when do you think he should retire now?
OH: You’re right. I no longer believe he should have quit in 2002. That was wrong, wrong, wrong. And all credit to you for digging it out and bringing it to a wider audience. I’m really delighted you did that. I was hoping those words were lying at the bottom of a deep, dark well. As for when he should retire now, that’s really difficult. The worst thing would be for him to go on too long but I’m sure Ferguson has the example of somebody like Shankly in his mind because Shankly retired too soon and found life incredibly hard without football. United are top of the league and in the last eight of the Champions League so there’s not really any pressure on him to quit. If he’s enjoying it, he could have another couple of years left. If he wins the Champions League again, though, I think he should go out at the top.
STR: Where do you think Ferguson ranks amongst the greatest all time managers?
OH: I think he’s close to the top at the moment. If he wins one more Champions League and equals Bob Paisley’s record of three European Cups, I think the argument would be over. He would be out on his own. He’s already above people like Brian Clough and Ottmar Hitzfeld and Carlo Ancelotti in my mind because of the longevity and the depth of what he has achieved, the way he has built the club and overseen every aspect of its development. I’d take him above Mourinho any day, too. I know Mourinho has a great talent but he’s a shock jockey who comes in for a few years and then gets the hell out of there. I’m not sure if he could ever do what Fergie has done and I don’t think he’d be my choice to replace Fergie when the time finally comes. I think they need someone a bit more level. Someone more like Ancelotti.
STR: Mourinho would certainly give you journos something to talk about in Fergie’s absence though. What’s been your favourite encounter with Ferguson?
OH: A few years ago, when United were on the brink of getting knocked out of the Champions League in the group stages – I think it was 2003 – I went to Lisbon for the last group game against Benfica. Fergie had a press conference the day before the game at a big conference centre and so because I was about 20 rows back and there were lots of other journalists there and there was a door that provided an escape route about ten yards away, I got brave and asked him an impertinent question. I got the microphone and asked him if his own position would be under threat if United didn’t qualify for the knock out stages of the competition. He looked at me with total scorn and said: “I’m not answering that question.” So I asked him why not and he just waved the question away. Then he turned to Carlos Queiroz, who was sitting next to him on the dais, and said: “We’ve got some right fucking pricks in here today.” We didn’t hear it at the time but some of the TV monitors picked it up and the TV boys told us about it. Very funny.
STR: Who do you think has been the best United player in the Ferguson era?
OH: Roy Keane. His performance in the Stadio Delle Alpi against Juventus in the second leg of the Champions League semi-final in 1999 is still the best individual display I’ve ever seen.
STR: Looking at our current squad, there’s no Roy Keane, but we certainly have some very effective players. When you consider Gareth Bale (7 league goals + 1 assist) and Samir Nasri (9 league goals +1 assist) have received lots of praise this season and have been tipped for the Player of the Year awards, I do wonder why Nani (9 league goals + 16 assists) hasn’t received half the plaudits. Why do you think this is? Would you consider using your FWA Award vote on him?
OH: I think it’s because neutral fans don’t like his attitude and his style. They don’t like the way he goes down too easily. He is far from alone in this but because he plays for United, his profile is higher. Would I vote for him for Footballer of the Year? No chance. It’s not an anti-United thing and I accept he’s had a very good season. But I would never vote for him. I wouldn’t vote for Didier Drogba for exactly the same reason. In the United matches I have seen this season, Giggs and Vidic have been United’s best players but that might not be representative of the season as a whole.
STR: You recently criticised Nani for not accepting Carragher’s apology, claiming he should learn from Holden who was very gracious in response to Evans after learning he would be out for six months. Like you, Holden and Coyle said, Evans didn’t mean to deliberately hurt his opponent, but both players went in for a 50-50 challenge, both in the air, both with studs raised, but Evans actually made contact with the ball. That surely can’t be compared with Carragher sliding in at knee height when Nani was stood still, going nowhere near the ball, then standing over Nani, with Gerrard and co. screaming at Nani to get up, can it?
OH: Carragher’s tackle was worse than Evans’, yes, although the consequences of Evans’ challenge were a lot more serious. You’re right, though, and you’re right about the reaction. But I think everyone is so used to Nani’s theatrics and his play-acting that sympathy was, initially, in short supply.
STR: Fair play. On to another of our best players, Wayne Rooney. He almost joined City this season. Did this come as a surprise to you and do you think he will leave in the summer?
OH: It did come as a surprise to me. I had kind of bought into the idea that Rooney was a bit different to the breed of footballers who come and go. I got a lot of rather bitter messages from Everton fans when I wrote that, which was fair enough. I suppose he had form. I still think he’s a fantastic player, the best English player there is, and I still think he can be one of the best in the world. I don’t think he’ll go at the end of the season and I hope he stays at Old Trafford.
STR: He duped us all and the fact he had done it to Everton and had been ignored by most made it all the more embarrassing! Anyway, on to our future and Tom Cleverley. You spoke highly of Cleverley when you interviewed him at the beginning of the season. You fancy him to make it at United?
OH: I do. Apart from the way he plays, I was impressed with him off the pitch, too. He’s got that bearing that a lot of United players have. Calm, authoritative, well-schooled by the club, confident. Decent lad, generally. I think it says a lot about him that he has come through a difficult time at Wigan with a team that is fighting for its life at the bottom and is now excelling. I think he could start breaking into the United first team next season and then we’ll find out a bit more about him.
STR: Great stuff. And finally, being realistic, who would you like to see win the league this season?
OH: I’d like to see the best team win it and that will probably be United. Maybe this is an answer to a different question but the team I’ve enjoyed watching most this season is Arsenal. I’ve enjoyed seeing Wilshere come through and Nasri and Fabregas have been good to watch. And if United could buy one player to transform them next season, I’d go for Luka Modric. With Modric in the side, I’d back United for the title next season.
STR: I’d love to see Modric at United. Fingers crossed. Anyway, it has to be said, just like for Michael Owen, Twitter has done wonders for you! Turns out you’re not a cunt after all! I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions.
OH: Thanks, Scott. Don’t mind if you go on about what a twat I am. If you give it out, you have to take it.
(After the interview, Oliver told me my question on Nani had prompted him to write something for the paper. “You might not like it very much. But then you’ll probably have read worse.” Here’s his article on why Nani shouldn’t be named Player of the Year)
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Follow Ollie Holt on Twitter
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Believe it or not, I went to school with Oliver Holt, albeit the year below – Did you know his mum is Emily Bishop in Coronation Street?
Excellent interview. Although I thought he was laughably wrong to dismiss Fergie back then, if we’re all held to account for our errors of judgement for evermore, where would we be? Having a good laugh probably. Anyway, Holt has always come across as a pretty decent guy when I’ve seen him on TV and I read his book, which wasn’t all bad, that’s for sure. There is a case to be made that Fergie did take his eye off the ball in the mid-2000s in some ways.
I’m glad to hear Oliver’s comments on Tom Cleverley, which are almost word for word what the Watford chairman said to me, especially the bit about how he’s been schooled in the United way. Martin Freguson apparently said the same.
sorry, scott – but he sounds like an arsenal loving ABU cunt all right!
Olly Holt in decent guy shock?!
To be fair, he has to write stuff like he does, or he wouldn’t be in the job he is in. Part of being a decent football writer is sticking your neck out – we hammer pundits for fence-sitting, and them hammer this guy for actually having an opinion.
Good interview. Fair play to Olly.
A good article Scott, the job of a journo is to sell copy but its good to see him revise his views later, mind you we’d all be better human beings with the benefit of hindsight, Rooney!
RedSimmo – Yes I did know that mate. Was he bullied at school?
Scott – Havent read it yet as too busy but you should have slotted this cunt.
Fair play to Holt my arse. He is a fucking tosser who pollutes Sunday Supp with his anti Fergie views. have you seen his pathetic article on nani today? No sorry but I have no time for this snide bastard.
Giles, I know you aint this old but you are a bit of archivist, do you have any info on the last time we played City in a semi final.
Just read about him saying United the “best team ” will win it. He is a lying cunt trying to appease you Scott. He is been banging on about Arenal the last few weeks. Just ask Kings.
Great article Scott, It nice to hear journos are human after all, i knew he was from
the GM area, but didnt know he followed Utd home and away in 80′s, i think there
are a few more Utd fans in the written press than we make out.
I would have liked to have been at the press conference in May 2007 after we had
regained the league title, and all the assembled hacks stood to applaud Fergie
when he arrived that day.
He’s still an ABU Cunt
Nani will be my Player of the year in 2 years time! Marks my words!
LOL what a cunt.
great interview. well done Scott. I can only imagine what a great feeling that was to get off your chest after all these years. haha.
i stand by Holt being one of the better writers, and one of the few “columnists” i ever bother to read. He’s gone up in my estimations for doing this interview
oliver is a twat, United will always prove the journos wrong. When will they ever learn. Never underestimate the old fox Sir Alex and his team.
I like turtles!
Sorry but he’s a snide, slimey, ABU twat his bitterness on that sky programme with the rest of the ABU’s like Samuel & fat head Woolnough has got really bad this season. He’s so far up Wenger’s / Arenal / John Terry’s collective wrong ‘un its embarrassing. He hates United and No. 19 (if it comes this season) will hurt these bastards.
Mattbw7, off the top of my head, it was 1926, with the great Billy Meredith playing for City…City won, but were beaten by Bolton in the Final.
And no, I wasn’t there…
fukn crackhead!
How can a person who followed a team home and away during the 80s not be a fan? I find this incrededble and very strange. Is Oliver Holt not telling something for this surprising U-turn?
A tosser who wanted to probably redeem himself in front of United fans.The article he has written on Nani is in such a poor taste.Its shocking.Cunt and a Tosser.No two ways about it.
Agree with King Eric – Holt’s still a twat and is obviously saying one thing to appease the interviewer then going to write the bile about Nani. Either he means what he says in his articles, or he just writes them for a reaction -either way he still comes across as a cunt to me.
Loved the interview Scott. And fai play to him I guess. You’ve interview worse. *Cough* Jeff Winter *cough*
This guy is a consistant cunt – no time for him
great interview STR.
Hack.
He’s giving you lip service Scott. Telling you what you want to hear. He likes Rooney of course, but he’s English. Martin Samuel is a fucking twat as well. We have to win this 19th title, to stick it up these ABU cunts.
If the Mirror circulation increases he’ll claim the credit for flanneling the supporters into believing he’s really an alright guy.Arse.
It’s a political act on his part, IMO. Unfortunately, I don’t trust him [although he's not the only one] and I don’t particularly rate his football analysis either.
Fair play for the interview, though. Whose next, Emperor Palpatine?
agree he is paying you lip service, especially when he continues to publish stuff like this. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Manchester-United-s-Nani-won-t-be-my-player-of-the-season-for-his-scowling-and-play-acting-but-Scott-Parker-Luka-Modric-Jack-Wilshere-Nemanja-Vidic-and-John-Terry-could-be-article718099.html
Oliver Holt is a fake. He wants you to believe he’s not. But he is. What is he guilty of, you ask? It is so obvious. He wants people to believe he’s an ABU! Its the fastest way for a journo to go up in popularity in the UK!
In the media world, popularity is everything. In other words, OH wants to be popular & rich by playing the
ABU card! He knows ManUtd fans & supporters around the world will come to the defence of all that is ManUtd. He has found the golden lode! the devil he is! He a go-getter for riches & fame. By riding on the ABU ticket! Scott, please don’t interview him again, not unless he offers to pay to sponsor this forum.
Can some one tell me why ravel morrison is going to miss both legs of the youth cup game against chelsea and he played against newcastle in the u18′s a few days after he was sent off playing against them in the reserves.
Nani4ever – it should tell you on Championship Manager…have a look
I’m not sure he’s only saying what you (we) want to hear. What would be the point? He’s still going to write what he writes for the rag, and he knows we’ll see that, so what could he possibly achieve by saying nice, soothing things just for us?
His article about Nani is an overblown piece of crap, just what you expect from the Mirror. And he is wrong, totally wrong, about the Spurs incident (” … still probably the most glaring example of bad sportsmanship this season.”) Gomes brought that on himself. Gomes may have been confused but the referee wasn’t, and it isn’t Nani’s job to help Gomes out. The ref may have been wrong about not awarding a free kick (I really don’t give a fuck at this point), but the fact is that, right or wrong, he waved play-on. Gomes is a professional player, the number one goalie for a top 6 club in the toughest league on the planet. If he hasn’t yet learned to play the whistle, than he deserves everything he gets.
But on the other hand, Nani does carry on a bit sometimes. And it doesn’t win him any friends. But he isn’t the only one, and he is still a terrific player.
Slightly off topic (but sort of related to the issue of managers, which the Holt interview touched on)…
I see Scolari has told Brazilian TV about some of the troubles he had at Chelsea. He said the dressing room was riven by personality clashes, and he wanted to sell Drogba because he was difficult to control: “It was difficult to control the dressing room. Drogba believed he was the star in the squad and I did have conflicts with him. I also wanted Abramovich to change Drogba for Adriano at Inter because he was easier to control than Drogba.”
So here we have a manager who openly admits that he could not control the dressing room, and who even wanted to buy and sell players on the basis of who was easier to control — that is, to make his own life easier.
And there are still some people in the world who can’t understand why SAF is the best manager there’s ever been? Can anyone here picture him putting up with that shit, or thinking that way? I can’t!
still a bit of a cunt. Nani isn’t thaaat bad when it comes to diving. I remember Ronaldo being much more… dramatic
What a fucking retarded person that Holt is.
i’m a long man utd fans and i love this club. however, i agree with some of oliver holt’s writing on nani. some of them are very true, while the others are crap. scott parker is a good example undoubtedly.
StateSide Aussie @ 13:25: “Nani does carry on a bit sometimes.”
I vehemently disagree with this line of argument. I hear the same thing all the time from commentators but time and again it’s shown in the replays that what the Andy Townsends call “nothing” is, in fact, a nasty tackle. (It was the same with CR7, who was actually subjected to much worse violence that Nani has so far attracted. Remember the Pogatetz incident ?) When William Gallas went for Nani at Arsenal a few years back the commentators practically said that he was getting what he “deserved” for “showboating” whereas what he was doing was keeping the ball under control and away from an opponent. So, Gallas’ GBH – just like StevieMee shove at AnFailed – was brushed aside.
To me, the key issue is that the referees do not protect skilful players in the EPL – or, at the least one can say, they are very, very inconsistent in their application of the rules. That’s why Martin Atkinson’s call againt DarrenFletcherinho at Stamford Bridge in 2010 that led to the free kick that led to the offside goal was so predictably awful. From viewing that incident it wasn’t a 50/50 call – more like a 10/90 decision (just like the “handball” call against Michael Carrick in the same stadium the year before) – but it was a game-changer.
To be sure, I remember the bad calls that go against UTD more than the ones that go our way but that doesn’t really detract from my point that the inconsistency of the refereeing is a crucial element in the way outcomes get determined. I don’t think that these things “even themselves out” and I do think that a player’s “reputation” comes into play. Nani is reputed to go down easily and to feign injury but a careful analysis of the incidents on which this “reputation” is based proves otherwise, in my opinion. But that doesn’t really matter because “reputation” trumps reality.
Here, again, is an example of how the refereeing in footie lags behind other sports – in baseball, for example, computerized analysis of the umpire’s strike zone is used to create a level of consistency so that no umpire can have his own “strike zone”; in ice hockey, dangerous incidents are reviewed in the NHL office late at night after the game, based on complaints from either team; and in the NFL there is a similar use of video to get game-by-game consistency from all referees. In footie, on the other hand, each referee seems to be a law unto himself – and no one seems to have the power to rein these guys in. That means EPL games are refereed in a “manly fashion” while EuroRefs are thought to be pussies and Euro-players are usually branded likewise. But a late tackle or a high tackle is – well – a late tackle and a high tackle. Inconsistency reigns and some players “carry on a bit” in order to alert the referee to the highhandedness with which they are being challenged.
The Andy Townsends of the world don’t like that – it’s called “histrionics” – but what the Nanis and Ronaldos of the world are doing is simply demnstrating to the referee that they’ve been the subject of something less than GBH but something more than a “professional ankle tap”. And the video evidence usually proves them right but the Andy Townsends of the world never – ever ! – apologize for their inability to spot the foul in real time. And in such a way, Nani’s “reputation” is first sulled and then confirmed – in the face of the evidence.
I much prefer to watch Nani’s athleticism and his box of tricks to enduring frustrated thuggishness from William Gallas, GBH from Jamie Carragher, or professional ankle-tapping from outclassed defenders. What’s the point of having the “best league” if the best players aren’t allowed to play the game within the rules – it’s not the Nanis of the world who are breaking the rules because it’s the Nanis of the world who are subjected to persistent professional fouls by lumbering opponents who can only contain their skills through recourse to illegal means.
Anyone read he’s piece of shit article on Nani today? His hatred for the lad is disgusting. Poor Nani, doesn’t have a fan in the boring, ABU journalist cunt.
He is still a cunt as far as I am concerned. Every week on Sunday Supplement he has been waxing lyrical over Arsenal and how they will win the title and constantly having a pop at ‘Fergie’ as he fucking calls him – now he’s saying United will win it as they are the best team – lying cunt. He is the same cunt who printed the following in late November 2002: ’3 games to finish Fergie’ – referrring to the games with Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal. Even though we got 9 points from those games, he still refused to accept he was wrong. He will always be an ABU cunt as far as I am concerned.
Two words spring to mind with that interview with Holt: ‘Charm’ ‘Offensive’. As for his article on Nani, he can go fuck himself. Wilshere constantly goes around squaring up to opponents thinking he is a hard man, but he still gets that bastards vote. I would love to see someone smash that cunt.
Cant stand him and the rest of his ABU brethren. They’ve spent the last 20 years trying to ignore the team that brought pride back to English football. On an aside the club’s ‘official’ site has been pretty boring lately (thank goodness for Scott) but the current interview with Wes, Wayne and Carrick is great and the manager’s interview is class. Roll on Saturday!!!!
holt is sitll cunt, add to that ,now a fucking creep!!!
When it comes to Nani diving/cheating which I don’t agree with he may stay down longer but only after being fouled I cant say I have ever seen him go down without being fouled, or diving for penalties maybe some on here can list the occasions it has happened. Based on what is being said about him it should be pretty easy to come up with examples.
Denton … I wasn’t mounting an argument, merely making an observation. Whatever you say, I do think that sometimes, he does “carry on a bit”. As for the comments about referring standards, I do agree. Nevertheless, I am opposed to video referring during a match (with one clear exception, in that I think offside decisions could benefit from video, and I also think that if thought through, that could be done without interrupting or disrupting the flow of play). As for post-match reviews, I would like to see that, though I also think that in the case of football (given the nature of the rules), it would require some very strict guidelines. I think in that respect, other sports are maybe a bit easier to judge, simple because their rules seem a bit more clearcut on what’s allowed and what’s not. (I realize that is a sweeping generalization, of course.) In rugby, head-high tackles, eye-gouging, stomping and other forms of thuggery are all pretty easy to see and judge on their merits. Likewise, in hockey, boarding, the use of elbows, and high-sticking are all fairly clear-cut (I especially like the high-sticking rule — a player is responsible for his stick, period, so “accidental” doesn’t count). But in football, so much is inherently subjective. I have absolutely no idea on how that could be made more “objective” without fundamentally changing the game.
I love Nani to death. Really, I do. But, yes, I do think he puts it on a bit sometimes. Having said that, I don’t see that makes him much different to any number of others, nor do I see it as a valid reason for ruling him out of a “best player” award.
denton davey, your post at 14:10 is your best ever! in my opinion, obviously.
An excellent comment.
With regard to Holt, do not be fooled by his shallow attempt at fairness.
Back United, if you are a United supporter. Do not ignore a vicious attack on our player.
Once someone throws a brick at Sir Alex, it is too late. He will not be forgiven.
It is not acceptable, or excusable.
Be clear, if you ever call Sir Alex a %$#*, you will never be forgiven. Ever.
Excellent read Scott. Loved the linked articles from ’05. Can’t help but laugh at the bloke calling for Rio’s head claiming we couldn’t get 5 mil for him and he’s over rated rubbish. Would’ve seemed quite the bargain now to have acquired Rio for a million quid a year over the last half decade.
Holt’s a prick, no question about it and has a long history of being one. BUT singing United’s praises just doesn’t sell. It’s not sexy enough. Fawning over Arsenal and their “joga bonita” is what everyone (ex: United Supporters) wants to hear. People want to believe that we’ve our own Barcalona right here in England but the fact is Arsenal haven’t got the bottle. Some forget that even though Barcalona can score at will sometimes it seems, it’s their defensive standouts Puyol, Pique and Valdes that give them the freedom to roam about.
I get it, Arsenal’s the sexy subject that people want to hear about. They love drinking the kool-aid that is Arsene Wenger’s commitment to “attractive football.” They want to invision a day when the “beautiful game” in England is the equivalent of a ballet on grass. But this is fucking England. This is a culture of football equivalent to an aircraft carrier headed full steam ahead. They can write all they like, they can try and turn the ship but the fact remains, defense wins English Championships. I don’t care if lil’ Jackie, Princesc and that queer looking Nasri want to one touch it around the pitch all day long, until they have a back four that can win them games they’ll be nothing more than bridesmaids. We know it, our players know it and frankly, I could give two shits what the media writes and sells. When we lift the title in May it will be because Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra, VDS, an emerging Chris Smalling and a slew of quality squad members have time and time again shut the door when needed.
Nani being snubbed for player of the year surely shouldn’t shock anyone. As others have mentioned his antics only fuel the hatred for United. Our success only fuels the hatred for United. Journos and Pundits are scrambling, struggling and racking their brains over how in the hell we are where we are. They needn’t look further than a certain Serbian defender and a legendary keeper for the answer. But hey, that’s not a sexy answer now is it?
I had no idea who this guy was but reading Scott’s interview where he was told (since he had no idea)
- Gareth Bale (7 league goals + 1 assist)
- Samir Nasri (9 league goals +1 assist)
- Nani (9 league goals + 16 assists)
and then he goes on to write that disgusting shit article “because neutral fans don’t like Nani”?????
Motherfucking RACIST CUNT ABU ASSHOLE.
So now I know who Oliver Hole is. Scott, did you actually read the Nani article you inspired him to write? You are too nice to give this guy another chance (Ghandi II), stay away from this two-faced asslicking SOB. And he went to United home and away in the 80s?
Rant over, who is this guy again? Oh, that is right. NOBODY.
Rai – Ha ha. Belter of a comment at 13.17 pal!!
nani4ever – No mate I have no idea why he is banned for the two games when he could surely have missed Newcastle and a n other game prior to the rentboys to get his ban out the way?
Also why are people saying “fair play” to Holt? He is a fucking cunt of the highest order. As I say just watch the bastard on Sunday Supp. Prick. Fuck off Holt you granny looking cunt.
“and Nasri and Fabregas have been good to watch” Nasri has been missing since Xmas and fucking Fabregas has been injured most the season. As I say. Cunt,.
Nani is not even top 20 for him and tiny tears in the top 5? Because the doesn’t like Nani’s antics? This guy is on crack.
Great post Denton. You are the personification of what it means to be a United supporter, the highest order of football fan. Loyal, insightful and never forget anything. Amazing.
In reality Oliver Holt is an opportunist. When united are down and out in 2005, he jumps on the bandwagon and makes the most scathing remarks.
He doesn’t just mention the facts but he also attaches some crazy opinions to them that go far beyond a reasonable analysis. I suppose this is the sensationalist aspect of tabloid journalism but it was still unnecessary.
i mean its not as if journalists haven’t written off united before- ask Alan Hansen. Yet do they learn their lesson- no! You might expect professional journalists to show some guile and tact before putting their foot in it.
The truth is people like Oliver Holt write articles and as far as his newspaper column goes, people arent able to challenge him, so like other journalists he can say what he pleases. But whenever he is in a direct interview situation, being challenged by an expert like Scott suddenly he has to moderate his views.
In the end journalists are only useful to me if they provide some information that i may not have access to. If i want to see people writing off united i can go on about any football forum.
Afternoon all true REDS….
Cannot wait for Saturday to be honest and I have no clue which strikers will start, I am sure though who ever does not play will be rested for the rent boys. Probably Berba & Rooney for West Ham and then Hernandez & Rooney for the rent boys…
What do you guys think?
p.s. @ denton davey, fantastic post mate
Just been listening to Gough and Durham waxing lyrical about Ingerlund’s “great performance” last night and how Fat Frank, Stevie Me and Rooney will be probably second choice now. Yeah whatever Adrian. Those two old fuckers, yes, but Wayne will be back on form. They wern’t even that good. Decent enough first half but shite second. If thats greta football then god help me.
United > England.
Afternoon Cedars mate!!
Have a read of all the comments on his article on the site. absolutely nobody supports this guy.
He’s got John Terry in his top 5. Apparently taking bribes for tours, sleeping with teamates wives, pissing on floors, among other tremendous accomplishments is worthy of English honours.
Maybe Nani should be happy that he isn’t in this guys list
@ Cedars
Berbatov HAS to start on Saturday in my opinion. The chap needs a game to keep him fresh and frankly, Ive been been missing his velcro boots for what seems like an eternity. Love Chicha, don’t get me wrong but if Sublimatov can’t get a game in against the hammers than shit, I’d feel gutted for the lad. An embarrassment of riches I know but we need all 3 strikers hitting form for the run in.
King Eric – Hello mate. He’s a slimey fucking cunt. He is always having a pop at Fergie, taking great pleasure in incorrectly addressing him too. That article he did on Nani is dispicable, saying what he said about him. Sure Nani can be frustrating at times, but as far as I am concerned there is no one who can touch him with regards to what he has contributed this season. The day we signed him, I was pleased as I think he is top drawer and to this day that opinion still stands. It is because of cunts like Holt that I haven’t purchased a newspaper in well over 10 years. ‘Granny looking cunt’. Quality mate. Someone should treat him to some ‘Just for Men’, stick some in latte too and poison him.
Off topic – Just heard Nick Collins on Sky Sports News come up with a great statement: ‘If England win the European Under-21 Championships this summer, then it will have a huge positive impact next year as there will be players like Wilshere and Carroll who will take that experience with them with seniors, enabling them to cope with tournament pressure’. What a fucking prick. I think he is trying to make comparisons with the German side of 2009 who won the last one and had players like Ozil, Mueller and Neuer promoted to the first team for the 2010 World Cup. Er not in the same league you silly handle bar moustache cunt.
For the sake of some humor imagine this lads….
In the RED corner we have Roy Keane, Bryan Robson and Vidic… In the blue corner we have Terry, Balotelli and Nasri…
Who’s your money on?
Afternoon King Eric mate
I think it’s kind of funny how some people can watch as much football as Holt, be steeped in it day in and day out for work as he is, and still be so utterly wrong about such fundamental things. I mean the whole business with Fergie, what was that about? Had he lost the dressing room? No. Had he suffered some sort of mental impairment that would stop him managing? No. So how the hell does he become a bad manager overnight?
Just foolishness. But that’s sports journalism for you. Everything has to be a story NOW, right this minute. Nobody has patience for the long game, and Ferguson plays the long game.
soooo harsh on Nani that, im sure if someone did that tackle on him twice he wouldnt of reacted with class- he doesnt even have class to be honest.
That was actually a leg breaker so Nani is really lucky. Holt doesnt have a clue what he’s chattin. BALLDERDASH!
King Eric – Yeah heard that too mate. What a pair of cunts. I’m surprised they didn’t say that if England’s Jewel in the crown played last night then Gyan would not have scored that goal. Bitter cunt Townsend tried to dress up the result by saying don’t take any notice of the scoreline, England played superbly and contributed to an entertaining friendly. Oh do fuck off you cunt.
ididnotzeeit
I agree and I hope Berba starts on Saturday, I think Hernandez and Rooney will be more effective against the rent boys who of course will be without the signing of the century that is Luiz
Fucking Hobo cunt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1371291/Martin-Samuel-Javier-Hernandez-faces-burnout-compared-Jack-Wilshere.html
Afternoon Cedars
Saturday wouldn’t surprise me if Berbatov played up top on his own and they dropped Rooney back to the left. Can’t see Valencia playing after the travelling I think he’ll be on the bench at best.
Kings
Mushy Pea? What a fucking idiot…….. Mind you people like him need to earn a living, not much else they can do but spout shit every now and then and to their credit they are good at it.
Hi Rai
How is the pregnancy coming along buddy? Wish you all the best… Trust me the best feeling in the world for you would be when you first hold the little thing!
Interesting that you say Berba will be up tops on his own, could be who knows…. I also agree on TV, probably on the bench ready for the rent boys
Rai, Valencia played in the Hague yesterday so not much jet lag there
I call Holt an ABU c*nt all the time. But you have to give him fair play for this.
As to Nani, and Ronaldo before him, you have to have red tinted specs on not to appreciate what Holt is saying here. There is an english way and more specifically, there is a United way. Cleverly has it. Robbo had it. Bruce had it. Giggs has it. Vidic has it. Nani and Ronaldo? They don’t have it. Embarrass us on a regular basis because of their theatrics. I am sure there are few among you who don’t wish it would disappear from Nani’s game. Fair play to Holt to saying it like it is on that score.
Still think he is an ABU c*nt.
Liverpool have announced Lucas has signed a new long term deal. Sir Alex Ferguson said, It’s the best news he’s heard in a long time.
CedarsDevil – Hello mate. Yeah not only does he gets that shit printed on those newspapers, he sleeps under them in a cardboard box at night time too, fucking vagrant cunt.
Valencia will be rested I reckon he’s a week away from starting a game.
Cedars – all good buddy you speak like a man from good experience
I don’t think the gaffer can afford to pick his team around the Chelsea game, he’ll have to make minor changes before every game but I think he’ll go for his strongest possible line up against West Ham we can’t afford not to.
Interesting to hear his comments about having “excellent young strikers” and how it was strange to have so many. Can’t see him letting Welbeck or Macheda go and keep room for Owen.
Oliver holt isn’t d only one. U used read anderson something’s post on mirror saying fergie should learn from steve kean.
Look at it from another angle, the interview might be real, his articles are just providing what the job requires. There’s more impetus in being “fake” for the job, than being “fake” to a United fan if he’s really ABU.
What theatrics are we talking Drohgba heart attack theatrics.
Kings – Not one to agree with fat head Samuel, but we do have to be careful with Hernandez. He played at the WC last year and he’s played more games for us, than maybe SAF expected. Now, this summer he’s got the Copa America I think, so the staff will have to keep an eye on him. I’ve no fears about the lad, he’s at the best club, in that regard.
FletchTHEMAN
Agreed mate and I would add that EVERY United player HAS it bar the 2 you mentioned….
But for me they are/were United players hence I support them through thick and thin while they are here
Rai
I do in a way my friend, trust me once you hold your new born for the first time you would experience a feeling like never before…..
UNITED
Holt is a f*****g moron.
Just ignore the TWAT!
Good day CedarsDevil! I also think that we should support United players through thick and thin.
Who else is going to back them? Why only support them when they don’t need it? You are a true friend and a true lover of all things United.
I am there for my friends, right or wrong, but particularly when they are wrong. Afterwards, having backed them publicly, I will take them one side and explain my true feelings exactly.
Many people claim that they will back you if you are right. This is always a lie. They would not be backing you, they would be backing a person that they agree with.
To consider yourself a true friend, be a friend.
To consider yourself a true supporter, be supportive.
Anyone else hearing these links to Reyna and Sneijder. Can’t imagine either one is really in the cards. This is getting a bit boring TBH.
Cedars Cheers mate. Well, there have been a few more who didn’t have “it” to be honest, seems to be a thread among Argentinians, but has been known in a few others as well. Most thought Ruud didn’t do himself any favors by going down alot. But I take your meaning and generally agree.
“Gareth Bale (7 league goals + 1 assist) and Samir Nasri (9 league goals +1 assist) have received lots of praise this season and have been tipped for the Player of the Year awards, I do wonder why Nani (9 league goals + 16 assists) hasn’t received half the plaudits.” It must stay about facts, it doesn’t matter whether you like the guy or not, NANI has been the best player this season and he deserves to be recognize as such. We don’t have to wait that he get an injury like valencia to say the guy is fair to protect himself. There are many more players in the game that are better actors than NANI. I’m just talking about facts, so as the number of goals chicarito have put in and the number of minutes he spent on the pitch, he deserves recognition too.
What annoys me about the ABU is the way they ride on kenny dalglish’s dick.Its irritating.
Rooney, Wes and Carrick in a fun interview.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Exclusive-Interviews/2011/Mar/Behind-the-scenes-with-Rooney-Carrick-Brown.aspx?pageNo=3
After giving Holt the benefit of the doubt I read the Nani article, a good job he didn’t name check you scott cos he’s done you like a kipper. Have a look how Scott Parker goes about his business!!! the useless twat, why doesn’t holt harp on about the other less than savoury characters in the game, aaaagh im so fuckin angry that he’s been given space on here to come accross as half human when he’s pissing up our backs, get this thread removed and replace it with a few of this guys articles.
smartalex
Inspiring words buddy, you are a true friend as well…. Mean that with all my head and heart..
FletchTHEMAN
Again I agree, Ruud was annoying in that sense BUT by enlarge and with out any bias I can easily say that at United we have had the least of such players
Perhaps Holt should eat his words BEFORE publishing them, rather than after.
Here is an imaginary example of how he tramples on you before offering a hand.
“Your God is a fucking Cunt! He hates you!
“Oh, did I say that, ha ha ha, well, you reminded me that I said it, so we are all square.”
FletchTheMan @ 16:11: “There is an english way and more specifically, there is a United way. Cleverly has it. Robbo had it. Bruce had it. Giggs has it. Vidic has it. Nani and Ronaldo? They don’t have it.”
Some people, eh ?
Thank you CedarDevil, that means the world to me! United unites!
Get used to it mates. We are the only news that anyone wants to read about. We have an interesting manager (almost to a fault), we are TOP OF THE LEAGUE, we are the MOST SUCCESSFULL TEAM IN ENGLAND IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, and we have ooooodddles of class style.
Thing about Parker, not likely to sell any papers then is it!
@ mattbw7
“he’s done you like a kipper.” Did kind of feel like Holtie had STR bent over a couple of times.
HA ha ha ha ha!
Pleasure my mate smartalex
On a comical note, Lehman played a hilarious game for the arse reserves… What a joke of a club
Mind you, not as funny as shitty
A great interview with Sir Alex!
http://www.manutd.com/en/Tour-2011/Tour-2011-News/2011/Mar/Video-Sir-Alex-in-America.aspx
Holt should publish an abject and unconditional apology to Sir Alex. Anyone watching this interview cannot fail to in awe of the gaffer. He is pleasant, witty, intelligent, focused and lucid.
Matt – What are you saying, Scott got butt fucked? I hope Holt bought you breakfast Scott lol.
Totally off-topic, but so weird I couldn’t resist: fans of the Columbian club Cúcuta Deportivo invaded the stadium this week during a match, shortly before full-time, and rushed in carrying a coffin containing the corpse of a 17-year-old fan who had been gunned down in a drive-by shooting the previous day. The dead lad’s dying wish had been to see his team just one more time (now that’s what I call dedication). The coffin was rushed past police by a gang of supporters when the cops opened the gates to allow fans to leave. The lad, in his coffin, was able to “witness” the last 8 minutes of play.The match was a draw. His mother fully supported the action, saying “I took him to the stadium ever since he was a little boy. He loved the game and he loved his team so what better way to honour him?”
Well, OK…
Breakfast after sex is always welcomed !
ex Manutd . com TAOT.
Tonight’s edition of Live From The Red Cafe on MUTV promises to be a special one with not one but two former United captains making an appearance. Gary Neville is the guest at Old Trafford, fielding questions from the studio audience, while an interview with Bryan Robson – recorded earlier today in Manchester – will be among the video clips aired during the show. Live At The Red Cafe is on air from 18:30 BST
The anti Glazer squad won’t be able to see It.
Nah all I’m saying Scott went into this with his usual honesty as he does when he talks to other teams fan forums, I can only remember the West Ham lot trying to be uppity like dey woz ard, but Holt has taken what at face value was a decent exchange and written in his column as if he spanked a UTD fan, what a cunt, what Holt knows is that STR has no right of reply in the paper so he can put what he wants, though perhaps STR shouldnt have been so naive in believing the prick had enough class to have a decent conversation.
Hey yo Cedars mate…
How did that le arse reserve game go with the german big guy? Intrigued…
What a fucking mug.
Does this guy know anything about football?
Nani has been superb
For all transfer nuts out there, transfers that shocked the world, on ITV4 9pm. I suppose Ronaldo’s tranfer to Madrid will be on the list, but not so much that he moved to Real, but for how much.
matt – Are you REALLY surpised by this cunt mate? I knew it was all lip services having to watch the bastard slagging United every week on Sunday Supp. He needs a fucking haircut too.
Kings – Hello mate. You well? Yeah cheers for that . He does look and sound like a fucking granny though mate. You can tell Emily Bishop’s his old dear. Cracking quote about the under 21′s. Really are deluded arent they? Do they honestly think Wilshire and Carrol are gonna do anything toward Ingerlund winning a World Cup or Euro’s? Are they fuck. All Wilshire did last night is give the fucking ball away time and again. Yeah heard Townsend saying ignore the scoreline. As did Goughy and Durham. Isnt the scoreline THE most important thing? Townsend was also banging on about the woeful Barry last night, proclaiming he had a fantastic game. Err did he fuck.
Stateside Aussie – that’s nuts mate.
Matt – I haven’t even read all the interview mate I stopped myself half way – this guy doesn’t deserve our time and doesn’t deserve to be interviewed for this blog.
Like I said he’s a CONSISTANT CUNT.
Scott,why shd i follow him?pals,follow me @yugo44
I agree there’s a few things Nani needs to get rid off from his game and what OH said about joy I feel there needs to be joy throughout the team. I think that’s what we’re missing the most joy. Hopefully in the end that dirty cunts tackle will have a positive effect on nani in the long term.
Interesting interview from the manager. Not backing down with the FA. Has a go at Tevez’s people. Good fun……… Haha ha ha ha ha.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/30/alex-ferguson-fair-comment-referees
FletchTHEMAN – Ferguson’s legal adviser, Graham Bean, has since described the governing body as “like a communist state”.
How true.
King Eric – Hello mate. Yeah I’m good thanks. Hope you are well. Yeah the similiarities are very much evident. Absolutely mate, what the fuck is an odd-bodied little cunt and a yeti bastard going to contribute for that shite fucking team? Barry is dogshit, Milner is a fat slow cunt who should be a hod-carrier and that cunt Downing has no right-foot, yet they talk about him as if he’s a magician who can open up teams. Oh yeah and Lescot was constantly getting raped by Gyan, I hope he plays like that against United in the semi-final. Such a dreadful group of players. I would love it if Rooney quit that set up as he is too good for them, but he loves playing with those pricks and shows so much more enthusiasm when an England team mate scores. These cunts will never learn though mate. England always flop at major tournaments, get a mega roasting when they come home early, then less than 12 months on they start masterbating over the next so called young superstar and proclaim him to be the one to end the many years of failure at the next tournament.
Back to the issue of that fucking cunt Holt. Let’s see what he has to say the next time he’s on the Sunday Supplement. No doubt he will be slating Fergie whilst cupping Woolnough’s balls under the table.
With regard to the persona theft that occasionally occurs on RoM, willierednut was the unfortunate target of a thief recently, and there may be more. I responded to a comment earlier, and that ‘person’ has replied, denying the comment that he made “I never said that!” he cries, meanwhile it is still written there. Possibly i have been doped with shrooms in a Mickey Finn (unlikely, not that lucky), alternatively I’m being duped.
Doped or Duped, that is the question.
Anyone who cares to advise me, please consider Tannor’s posts at 5:45, 5:54 and 17:44.
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/danny-welbeck-in-england-call/#comment-296258
He’s a fugazi!
Denton Davie,
I agree with your discussion of refereeing, but feel you are missing the issue that holt and other commentators on the english game have with Nani. You might call it lack of protection of skilled players, but I feel that is a separate issue. I call it a “take it on the chin, fair play attitude”.
Lets take Michael Owen, WR10, even Wellbeck to be honest, stalwart english forwards who really don’t dive. When they get a nasty tackle, they get up and move on (if they can). Chicharito, Berbs, Valencia are also of this mold. On the other hand, Nani will lay around or complain at the ref., clearly over acting. You can find examples where the Owens and WR10s of the world did get pissed, but on the whole. When they go down they get hammered they don’t go chasing the ref begging for a call or worse. At the end of the day, they forgive their adversaries as opposed to Nani who seems to hold a seething grudge. English media tend to respect a man who realizes it is a mans game, take it on the chin attitude. Nani, AND the entirety of the Arsenal team, just don’t get this aspect. Just saying.
Your point about further reflection is true, but it is already too late once the rules of fair play are crossed. I know it is complicated. But feel that Nani is getting to the place where Ronaldo was before, and yet he is not half the player that Ronaldo was for us. Love what Nani has done for us. I fully support him as a United player. At times I just wish he would stop acting like a show pony and get on with the football. Think he has grown immensely since he came, but there is still some way to go.
I don’t think that Nani is ‘acting.’
He is being Nani, not acting.
Actually, by wanting him to ‘not act’, you are wanting him to ‘act’ as someone he is not.
He is not acting. He is Nani.
in the upcoming C/L matches against us Chelsea are going to have a difficult time as Continental referees do not tolerate attackers being impeded and will punish it every time,true they occasionally get it wrong hence Fletcher’s yellow which kept him out of the final but he could be excused that as he would have to have been behind the goal to see it was a fair tackle the good thing though was the ref didn’t pre determine who was going to go through as you sometimes get the impression our home refs do.
sorry smartalex he must have the pain threshold of a baby the way he reacts.
Smartalex – is he acting if he isn’t hurt but pretends he is, or are you saying that is Nani and not acting? Even though he isn’t hurt but it pretending he is may constitute to some as acting however I see your point that he is being himself – therefore, not acting.
Do you mean he’s being a mardy arse rai?
That’s ok mattbw7, I expect my position on this to be lonely! All good.
A low pain threshold for Nani seems guaranteed. As low as it appears, probably not.
However petulant he may appear, he is angry enough (or hurt/frustrated/upset/etc) to display his anger in his emotional latin way. He is not pretending to be angry in the hope of getting a sweetie (free kick)
I can’t stop laughing at your reply Rai! I’ll get back to you!
smartalex – Yeah, Ronaldo is the same.
If, by ‘acting’ we include every action of every human ever, then Nani is acting.
If we consider it’s meaning to be ” portraying that which isn’t ” Nani is not acting.
Yeah Matt that’s probably the best way to put it!!! Although Ronnie was a lot worse, he’d have an actual tantrum
Still…….Viva Ronaldo
FletchTheMan @ 19:00: “Nani is getting to the place where Ronaldo was before, and yet he is not half the player that Ronaldo was for us.”
I’d disagreewith that assessment, too. Nani is more of a team-player but not as dominating individially as CR7 whose aerial strength and overall strength was vastly superior. In terms of contributing to a team, I’d say that Nani is likely to be naerly as much of a “presence” for UTD as CR7 but only if he continues to improve. However, SAF will not bend the other players to Nani’s needs as he so obviously did when CR7 was allowed to flourish at the expense of his team-mates.
So, I’m not sure that we can really make a fair comparison about this without bringing in a lot of other factors into the discussion. Maybe it’s enough to say that Nani can become better and better as he plays a more team-oriented game – the one thing that he needs to improve on is his tendency.to be too much of an individualist. He needs to improve his vision of the field and his trust in his team-mates but, dammit, it’s coming and when it does arrive it will be glorious.
This kind of discussion touches on the “crap” nature of this year’s version of TheLads because it’s very much a work-in-progress rather than the finished product at the peak of a cycle of rejuvenation. In this regard. both Giggs and Scholes get too much playing time – and SAF still hasn’t figured out how to make the best use of DimitarBerbatov as a result of the meteoric arrival of Chicharito which has been as spectacular as his instant success has been unexpected. The long injury lay-off to Tony Valencia and the many games missed because of niggling injuries to Fletcherinho, Anderson and Rio haven’t helped nor has the long hiatus when ThreeLungPark was off for his country.
I know that you can’t legislate for (or predict) injuries, but I would venture to say that UTD would be less “crap” and Nani would be even better if the team was more settled. However, we’re still FIRST on April 1st and that’s plenty good enough for me considering that TheLads are also in the FACup semi-final and the CL quarter-finals. Pretty, pretty good.
should ask what league he came from then think Porto/Fc Braga these teams will get fouls all day when they play in this country the Continental refs wont stand back when players are going over like ninepins because it’s a tradition in this country to put opponents in the air if they have a bit of skill.
It is true that Nani is an entertainer. Where he telling you a story by the fire it would be thrilling.
He dazzles and dances, whirls and pirouettes his way through defenses. When he is scythed groundwards, he continues to be Nani.
DentonDavie team “would be less crap”. Ha ha yikes…. ha
Name a free kick goal we have this season in the prem. Ya, about right.
Respect your points, but I still think we are talking about different things. Not saying anything bad about his skill set. Just doesn’t have an attitude that engenders the respect of the media to the same degree. Also, there is definantely an anti british sentiment that must be delicately handled. Henry? Diver. c*nt. But the media didn’t mind because he just got on with it. Tended to speak well of his adversaries. Someone who got on with the game and played it marvelously well. Maybe it is the language, but is also the culture.
OFF TOPIC:
Speaking of Thiery Henry, Just found a clip on Sky. “Scholes was the best we faced”
http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,16460_6841186,00.html
Which ever of you lads who are putting together the Scholes retirement video will want a clip of this!
Sorry *** non british ****
Kings. Hello mate. Good post as per usual. “Cupping woolnoughs balls under the table“. Ha ha. Yeah pal it gets fucking worse. Saggers and matt dickinson tonight saying to drop wayne then in the next breath build the team around wilshire. What the fuck? Thought they were gonna build it round wayne but oh no they want the gyppo up top. You could not make it up. Becuase wayne has suffered with form they now want to fuck him off. Just glad united aren’t like that. Fickle bastards. Saying the amazing form wilshire has been in. Sorry? What exactly has he done mate? Gety owned twice at ot. Once by a proper midfielder in scholes, the next by sheasy and gibbo. Not wearing red glasses but I honestly don’t see it in him. He is neither a holder or a creative midfielder. The hype is getting beyond a joke now. I am sure the oddbodied cunt has commisioned talkshite to big him up. Honestly mate they do not stop. His name pops up all over.
Then some cockney cunt called in and said we should drop rooney as he has lost it all and play. Wait for it. Freeeaakk crouch and defoe. These the two cunts that have around three premier league goals bewteen them. Talking about rooney like he is a pub player. They are now wanking over the genius of capello and the fact je went four five one. Yeah well done. United have only been doing it a decade nearly. They say carrol should be the lone striker despite rooney being unstoppable in that position last season. Then some ingerlund “fan“ called up. Thing is he was fucking irish. The whole ingerlind set up is shambolic and embarrasing. It amazes me that these little ingerlunders actually care and call the show with their line ups and formations. It matters little as whichever team and formation the italian puts out is doomed to fail. Not good enough. Never will be.
United > england.
It’s really annoying when people ignore the fact that Nani has cut back on the theatrics over the last few months. I can’t remember many instances recently where he made a meal out of a challenge.
Smartalex – If we consider it’s meaning to be ” portraying that which isn’t ” Nani is not acting.
Is portraying the same as pretending? I think pretending and acting are more closely linked.
Nani doesn’t have a leg left to stand on. So, he complains.
There are players that can’t go through or round defenders. When they knock the ball past the defender and run into him, that is cheating. Everyone does it. Not everyone, actually. Not Nani.
He is trying to pass the defense, and can, so they hack him down. Then they point at him and laugh. They say he shouldn’t be that way.
And if you laugh, or feel any emotion other than anger towards the hacker, are you being a supporter of Nani?
Mattw7 @ 19:34: “he must have the pain threshold of a baby the way he reacts.”
Actually, this is beside-the-point.
The issue isn’t whether he is willing to “man up” but, rather, whether he has been fouled because his marker can’t cope with his speed and skills by playing according to the rules of the game. He may, indeed, have a low pain threshold but that’s not the point is it ?
Rai, please rephrase that 20:20 (good vision there lad!), I don’t understand.
Did my comment not make sense?
Costas, Nani has matured greatly, it’s never mentioned. A case of looking but not seeing.
Costas. Hello mate. Yeah I agree with you and denton. He gets some right stick every week. Regarding his talent I honestly believe we have seen nothing yet. This kid is gonna get better and better. His rise is following a very similar one to ronnie.
Gary on retirement “I was ready for it, when people finish their career they miss it. I feel content and happy, watching the games and enjoying it.”
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6843419,00.html
I could Nani in Othello.
Smartalex – No you comment did make sense. I think I’ve cracked it though…..Nani isn’t acting….he’s over exaggerating
That’s at least a million times too harsh Rai. Why do you always, always, always do that? ? ?
Nani is the new Nani. He’ll play himself, in a future picture.
Nani we ask;
To be or not to be?
Nani
Trick question – I already am
When Nani met Bebe?
Nani, Berbatov and Rooney, 3 men and a Bebe?
Nani Wars Episode One
The Phantom Arsenal
Oh my God Durham on talksport wanking over that game last night, its fucking disgusting. LOL CUM everywhere
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nE4bDl4V8
I was just watching this, Fuk me how good was/is ronaldo.
How good is Nani?
Do what smartalex?
Fuck me. Just watching erics all stars v united from 98/99 and what a fucking looney the keeper olmeta was. Coming out his nets and dribbling round two or three men at a time. Crowd chanting “fergie fergie sign him up“. He just keeps dancing in front on stretford end. Absolute nutter. I don’t remember the young kid alex notman.
Smartalex. Goodevening mate. I laughed when they asked gary when he finally considered retiring. Was it after the west brom game? He said it was about ten minutes into the game.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/900521/squillaci:-we-must-grind-out-results?cc=5739
Squillaci says, they must grind out results like United.
Not as good as ronaldo unfortunately
Slim. Yeah mate I heard that ginger tosser durham. Saying ingerlund were superb against a strong ghana team. A ghana team that had played forty eight hours before and travelled for fucking miles. They are getting excited about all the superb youth they have coming through and can build a team round wilshire and carrol. Unbelievable mate.
King Eric, good evening mate. That’s brilliant! He is such an honest man, it just comes naturally. I see when Rooney/Carrick/Wes were asked ‘What’s been the funniest moment at Carrington ever?’
Rooney replied “It’ll have to have involved Gary Neville…”
Rai, I can’t remember! it must have been so serious that I need millions of hours of hypnotherapy to bring it back.
Willie. Hello mate. Yeah I read that. Seems all arsenal players wish they were like united. Didn’t realise squillachi was thirty. Thought he was a youngish bloke.
Smartalex. Can’t watch that clip unfortunately on blackberry. Is it recent? How does rooney appear? Happy or going through the motions? Sorry for the questioning.
Thought I should share this with everyone here. An enlightening piece about United’s most famous fan. And her dad of course.
Found it very heart warming.
http://7cantonas.com/interview-proud-father-of-emily-jane-best/
King Eric – I actually used to think Norman was a good good talent – he seemed to just disappear though….In that match, I’m sure Eric scored towards the end…took the piss properly too!!!
Durham is a fuckin idiot at times. I change my opinion about him every week
@King Eric
Hi mate. Didn’t remember Notman hey? The only thing I remember about him was that he was a bit selfish in that friendly. Bue he seemed to be highly rated at OT. But it wasn’t easy for a young United striker to make it to the first team in those years…
Costas
And I am the only one that replied to that 7Cantonas piece – yes their is only one MG lol
King Eric, I’ve posted the transcript of the Rooney/Carrick/Wes interview on the 2nd RoM thread, ( Brown: Let’s Make It 19 For Fergie ) There is no video, but in the foto all three look happy! It’s not fair to judge on that, but I would say that Wes seems the most natural. It’s not fair of me to consider 1 photo!
Cheers costas.
Rai. Hello pal. Yeah he certainly did take piss. Dummied about three or four defenders then scooped it into net. Even then he was different class a year or so after his retirement. Eric got a right reception that night. Deserved it too. Genius.
@MG
Even if the username wasn’t MG, I could have recognised that comment anywhere.
Costa My friend and MG Thank you
It All Started here With RoM Thou My Home Away From Home
Off topic- A piece from the Neville interview talking about his routine.
He explained: “Hotel, rest, match, eat, sleep. That was the pattern, you are institutionalised into being like that. You have a privileged lifestyle but have to be professional.”
Imagine Ballotelli giving an example of his match day behaviour….or JT’s.
JT – Hotel with one of the lad’s girlfriends, relax and have a wank over myself in the mirror, use my block head to clear a few looping crosses, sleep with my mates Mrs again…
And Ballotelli – Strut, argue, swank, fight.
Costas. Yeah mate he was a bit greedy but you can also say he wanted to score a couple at old trafford and hope to give himself a chance of first team. Like you say though pretty hard back then considering the main four we had.
Thanks smartalex. Will have a look shortly.
In the Holt interview, Bale is mentioned. Moving on, here is a link to a half man half ape.
Can’t seem to find it.
Rai. Yeah just watching gaz nev now. Quality.
A great question that is to be put to Gary Neville by another forum.
“did you ever get to a point in your career where you couldnt be arsed to do anymore overlaps for beckham seeing how he never passed to you ?”
Really funny!
King Eric – Hello mate. Top post sir. It’s amazing the amount of jokers making derogotory comments about Rooney and waxing lyrical over that cunt Wilshere. They should be doing stand up. I cannot for the life of me understand what it is that he has done this season to warrant all the over the top plaudits. He is pedestrian and all I have seen him do more often than not is pass the ball sideways. When Carrick does that he gets pulled, but when that cunt does it, he is worthy of a place in the Barcelona starting 11, well according to scouse bastard Souness anyway. That Gypo cunt is another one, what has he done in the last 4 months and since his move to Liverpool? Fuck all. Newcastle must be pissing themselves laughing at getting £35m for a player they valued at £1m, 12 months earlier. Honestly mate these guys play mediocre teams, make minimal contributions and all of a sudden the future is to be based around them. If Carroll is the answer, then good luck to them cunts, if it means we can have Rooney’s undivided attention to helping united win trophies.
Crouch and Defoe, what a pair of clowns those two are. Crouch loves to try and plug himself in as some world class centre forward – dining out on his hat-trick against the mighty Jamaica in 2006. Fucking Freak. Defoe is a greedy little cunt who has scored two goals in 18 months – prolific!
As I said mate, England will never win a tournament in my lifetime. I just take great pleasure in seeing all those deluded cunts spending so much money to travel the world to see those jokers, and when they flop, the fans start booing them, disappointed at what they have seen. If they cannot realise the common theme after 20 plus years then more fool them.
I hope they give Nev a coaching role. Reserve team coach might be a good role for him he’s the type of guy you want to be influencing the youngsters. Like the gaffer said before he’s always looked out for the younger lads and guided them through contract negotiations. He’ll be perfect the that role.
Don’t know about that, he might scare the young bucks.
Smartalex – he couldn’t do the overlaps with Ronnie…he couldn’t keep up!
Kings. Oh dear. Actually laughing out loud at that post. Superb. Nail on the head with the travelling fans. Lash out thousands to follow that rabble then moan likle fuck when ingerlund fail yet again. Like you say, haven’t they learned their lesson after forty five years? Forty fucking five years. It beats me how these “experts“ get airtime. I have forgotten more about football than these cunts will ever know about the game. Its like the clowns who paid to go to wembly and then bitch and moan when it isn’t the “stars“. I could quite do without watching warrior terry, fat frank and stevie fucking me.
Smartalex. Cheers pal for the transcript. A good read (or viewing). Seems like good banter to me. Like the way they all say they don’t fuck about with giggsy and scholes. All good mates those three and fletch. Seems like anderson and nani get in on the act too. I have seen a programme in which someone says the da silvas get involved a lot too. Go to card schools and stuff. You cannot buy this team spirit
The EPL has done a survey of the 20 managers. Here are some findings:
-Managers put man management as the most important skill they can have (53 per cent)
-Sir Alex Ferguson was named the best manager in the history of the Barclays Premier League (87 per cent)
-Sir Alex also the greatest football manager of all time (27 per cent), ahead of other legendary names such as Jock Stein (20 per cent) and Bob Paisley (13 per cent)
-Ryan Giggs was voted the greatest player to have graced the Premier League (47 per cent)
- beating Eric Cantona (27 per cent)
http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2327087,00.html
They also consider United likely EPL winners, we are 5 clear so they would vote that.
Costas
You know how how to pull the strings of the heart my friend
GHTT
No – thank you for being the dad of a wonderful daughter and for letting us share a part of her uniqueness – however small that maybe
Seldom seen is greatness but when you have it in front of you in such a precious little package – the wonder is for all to see
Their is a crest on a red shirt and it means something to everyone – but for children it becomes more than beautiful – I don’t know how to describe that but I do know that when my son smiles or when Emily smiles or when any other little United fan smiles – that’s the world for you right there.
When they tell you that Manchester United is dead remind them that in our children we see our club alive kicking and screaming.
Do they want to question that?
Goodnight Reds.
King Eric, that interview mentions the laughter at training, and it is a recurring theme of nearly every picture we see of the squad training. Surely grumpy, grouchy, angry management should have a different result? The way the media portray Sir Alex, I’m surprised they’re not all in chains.
Comparing Red to blue; I’m amazed there are any city supporters left. Suicide, emigration or migration should have eliminated all of them. No family values at wastelands.
Rai, with Ronaldo on the field, Gary would just drop off, to avoid the step-over dust cloud!
I love reading articles from 2006, days when I’d defend Fergie and United to my school mates!
I’ll admit it. I’m a smug bastard telling people how I was right and we should always trust Fergie!
Smartalex – or he thought “Fuck it he’s gonna shoot anyway”
So, that EPL managers survey consider:
-Best EPL manager -Sir Alex
-Best All Time manager -Sir Alex
-Best Player -Ryan Giggs (2nd Eric Cantona)
-Most wanted player- Messi (2nd Vidic, 3rd Rooney)
United rules.
Rai – if Ben had been then, Nev could’ve wandered over and watched Ronaldo on the phone.
I was christened by a flamethrower, that was a baptism of fire.
Is that how they turned red? Just asking.
Hammons said earlier it could be the end for scholes as he isn’t on us video. He is. Quite abit.
Great listening to gaz nev. He says hernandez is special and works his arse off. When asked how they always win games late on he replied that the lads have a saying that they will ALWAYS get a chance. If its the sixty fifth minute they almost snatch at it as they know another will be along. When its the last few minutes they bury it.
Hammons, hammed It.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8416834/England-youngsters-will-soon-compare-favourably-with-Germanys-best-says-Fabio-Capello.html
I knew this would happen. A win over a poor Welsh team and a draw with Ghanna lol.
Tony Hancock, the radio Ham!
“It is are not raining in Tokyo”
“GLK London calling the world”
Herbie Hancock? A Chameleon by nature.
Willie. Of course we knew it would happen mate. It was bound to. It doesn’t take much to get the ingerlish media excited. Truly laughable.
Fucking deluded scouse cunts. Just been watching a bit of liverpool tv before I piss off to bed and they really are funny. Saying how next season under kkcckenny they will win the league. Yeah been hearing that for twenty one years. Saying how steve clark is an expert in european football. Is he? They then go onto say about the gyppo alky if you want a world class top striker then you have to pay THIRTY FIVE MILLION. Err no you don’t. How’s about hernandez for thirty five million. Carrol aint world class and never will be. Infact I will be as bold to say his career will have nosedived in four year. Too much drinking and thuggery and the price tag will wear heavy. No this chancer cunt who gets an odd header will be found out. He is shite. They then say that suarez loves the club and will be around for ten years. Bet you he won’t lads. Bet he is gone in two years. They say how it was great when he pulled the twins hear at anfield as “they love all that ”. Fucking horrible goofy cunt. Cheating scumbag. Reckon he will be a legend like king kkckkenny. Fucking idiots. They even have the audacity to say that suarez was ready for a move to a big european club. Fuck sake. Ajax aint exactly new to europe. These scouse cunts have just gone out the europa league in the last sixteen. Yeah huge european club. Always living in the past.
Seven million and “pulled the twins hair“. Goodnight.
King Eric hits The Post!
According to The Daily Mail, via Busby Way, United have agreed a first option deal for 16 year old Chilean striker Angelo Henriquez. + short video.
http://thebusbyway.com/2011/03/31/video-united-agree-first-option-deal-for-young-chilean/
I’ve actually started liking Holt after this interview. He made a fool of himself in 2002, but then again, we have all been proven wrong by Fergie in the past, haven’ we? I thought Fletch wasn’t ‘United material’, whatever that means. I called Hernandez the next David Bellion, saying that we should go for someone ‘tried and tested’. I’ve been proven horribly wrong time and again, and I’m actually beginning to enjoy it.
I think Van der sar deserves Player of the Year more than Nani, we’d be fucked without him
Morning all
dela – just out of curiosity, what made you think Hernandez was the next Bellion? Was this during the world cup? I thought he looked awesome in that tournament you could see he had potential.
denton davey says:
Mattw7 @ 19:34: “he must have the pain threshold of a baby the way he reacts.”
Actually, this is beside-the-point.
The issue isn’t whether he is willing to “man up” but, rather, whether he has been fouled because his marker can’t cope with his speed and skills by playing according to the rules of the game. He may, indeed, have a low pain threshold but that’s not the point is it ?
Well if he does have a low pain threshold its exaclty the point, if you say he’s unfairly targeted then you only have to look at George Bests treatment, I’m nit saying its acceptable but the situation aint gonna change anytime soon.
…..and after everything I still don’t undersand how people can say “fair play” to that prick Holt. He’ll carry on writing the same shit week after week, and if you really wanna see what the smug cunt is like watch him on a Sunday morning
Rio’s just tweeted that he’s going into training. Good news…
Is that right Kanchelskis, does he say its full training?
@Rai
No, mate.It was before the tournament. I realized how wrong I was after the game against France in the World Cup. And the goal against Argentina convinced me that Fergie had unearthed a diamond.
It sort of made me hope that Bebe would come out and shock us all in the same way, but the lesser said about that, the better. The lad is still young, let’s see how he shapes up.
Prob is Dela, Rooney was 16 when he made his debut, I do worry for Bebe and for the wages we’re paying him.
Morning all true REDS
mattbw7
Any idea what sort of salary Bebe is on mate?
Well it should be buttons but you’ve got think it would be anywhere upwards of 15k a week.
I guess that makes sense…. Still a lot of money when you consider someone like Robbo started with 280 a week and only cost 1.5 million to buy!
Was he that cheap!!!
Matt – Rooney was a FREAK at 16 that’s a one off I think!! Apart from Giggs of course…
In monetary sense yes he was that cheap, but for what he brought to the club he is priceless
Get well soon Robbo, we all love you
rumours De Gea coming and Carrick sold off this summer
Just to confirm, 280 a week is what he started on at WBA
Mess with me then I will mess with you
Mess with my family then I will mess with yours
Mess with Robbo then I will make your life a living hell in which you would rather be dead than suffer the pain…..
Fuck me, I love the man
carBANGrick – Yeah it appears we have been in talks with De Gea, his agent has confirmed but sadly for you I don’t Carrick will be going anywhere. You would like that though wouldnt you?
Carrick is where he belongs, at UNITED
Cedars – Hello mate . Spot on.
Sorry to bore on about Wilshire but it really is fucking me off. Just read this on the mail site from a “journalist”:
“The most exciting young English talent since Gazza, the 19-year-old plays with the composure of a veteran. He has quick feet, a smart brain and a stonking passing range, as well as a bristling edge that defies the thought he can be out-muscled.Injuries at Arsenal have accelerated his importance and it is a chance he has grabbed with both hands. He could become an all-time great”
Seriously am I missing summat with this cunt? “Stonking passing range” ? What ten yard square balls. “The most exciting talent since Gazza” What? Hows about fucking Rooney.
Absolute hyperbole.
King Eric
I am well buddy
Wilshere and the media are a fucking joke. Decent player he may be but to have a wank every time his name is mentioned has become a bit of a bore. Asked my ‘mate’ Townsend recently during a phone in recently about the signing of the season, the idiot was adamant that its VDV whilst I was trying to make a case for Hernandez…. What a joke
Whats left to say? Let them all go and fuck themselves
@Cedarsdevil
Correct mate, we were literally a one man team with Robbo he was a cut above the rest! The best captain ever to grace OT.
giggs11gerrard0
Well said mate, I was lucky enough to watch the legend himself week in week out…. Hope we will get a player like him again at United…Sadly I doubt it though
Journos are doing one of two things with Wilshere, bulling him up so if he does fulfill his potential they can all pretend they have a greater depth of football knowledge than us mere mortals or they’re secretly waiting for him to fuck it all up so they can take the moral high ground, though I suspect the second part is just me being cynical as our press are nothing if not fair and objective, right?
Robbo and Keane on a par for me, both would go through brick walls and both where natural leaders who had no need of a banner telling everyone.
I know and I would agree with the slightly younger generation of United supporters who would say that Keane was the best club captain we ever had….. Keane was a beast and I love the man to bits, but for me you cannot second what Robbo brought to the team as a leader… Captain Marvel? Understatement of the century
CedarsDevil
I never had the chance to see Robbo. Keano’s best years I experience, albeit on TV, but I must say that I never held up Keano to be the legend that others have. Yes, he was an incredible player and leader (Juve ’99 sums it up), but – and forgive me for sounding like Arsene Wenger – his dark side meant he never had my full, unconditional respect.
You can be a warrior, leader, fighter, captain, etc etc without being violent and neglecting the duty of care you have to your fellow professional. In my eyes, the Haaland incident was unforgivable, as well as the sprinkling of other deliberate, dangerous challenges throughout his career.
Like I said, I never that the pleasure of seeing Robbo play, but as I understand it, he could still control a game with bravery and leadership, without resorting to outright thuggery.
Don’t think the above will be popular, but it’s what I think.
Well I saw em both play but its all about opinions, sometimes you have to excuse some “darker” sides but thats up to each of us, you can even buy a t shirt with a quote from Sir Matt saying, “we had a few problems with the wee fella but I prefer to remember his genius” heroes are rarely perfect and often flawed and Robbo certainly had his own side.
kanchelskis
I may and in fairness not agree with most of what you have said about Keane…. But when we talk about Robbo, he was a warrior a true leader, never injured a player yet always injured himself because he was fearless. Endured every injury known to man yet kept coming back stronger than ever. By far our best player for years during the 80′s
Still waiting to see on the De Gea thing. I think Cech was about a year older than De Gea when Chelsea bought him. His age wasn’t a problem so hopefully De Gea’s won’t either. I do feel we needed a more experienced goalie, but hopefully this kid won’t have many nerves.
As for Carrick, can’t see him leaving. Can’t recall any United player leaving a few months after he signed a contract extension. The silence around the Scholes situation is worrying though…
Not sure if many United fans know this, but when Keane done his knee at Leeds, Robbo tried to keep his spirits up. He spent some time with him, because Keane was obviously feeling down and Robbo knew exactly what he was going through. And of course Keane is a legend. Deary me, as the boss would say.
Matthw7 @ 7:08: ” if he [Nani] does have a low pain threshold its exaclty the point, if you say he’s unfairly targeted then you only have to look at George Bests treatment, I’m nit saying its acceptable but the situation aint gonna change anytime soon.”
I think you’re moving the goal-posts. Let’s both agree that Nani does have a “low pain threshold” and that George Best had a “high pain threshold”.
How does your comparison make any sense of the way that Nani – in 2011 – is not being protected by referees from professional ankle-tapping ? What is the relevance of George Best’s treatment in 1960s ?
The point that seems germane to me is that Nani is NOT being protected and that he has been subjected to those “Johnny Foreigner” slurs by the likes of Andy Townsend.
So, let me make another somewhat unfair comparison – which country has done better in international competitions in the past twenty years ? The Portuguese Johnny Foreigners or The English Bulldogs ?
Or to be more specific what’s the connection between Chicharito, Nani, DimitarBerbatov, and Antonio Valencia ? Yep, they’re all “Johnny Foreigners” although they’re hardly comparable (one to the other) in their response to professional ankle tapping because they probably have different pain thresholds. In what way does this difference make Nani guilty of “carrying on” ?
If a skilled player is persistently fouled in a particularly insidious fashion then the referee should intervene and level the playing field so that primacy is given to skill and playing within the rules; otherwise, why not just let David Luiz continue to body-check or Jamie Carragher come at an opponent with studs up at knee height or EBJT get away with using his hands to “guard” his opponent ? That’s the logical outcome of the argument you are proposing.
That’s why Nani’s “pain threshold” is beside the point.
Wilshere is an overrated odd-bodied little cunt. Cleverley is a much better player than him, he has more in his locker and he can score goals. Yeah Wilshere is most definitely in Gazza’s mould, the Gazza of now that is. The media are inbred fucking cunts.
mattbw – Spot on at 10.52
Its Robbo all day long for me. Broken ankles, collar bone, legs. Hard as fucking nails. Loved Keano but Bryan was my boyhood idol.
kanchelskis – No mate, I know what you are saying. Unfortunately Keano’s “over exuberance” became a liability at times. A great player banned for games at a time. I loved the bloke though.
Oh of course Keano is a legend Willie.
Oliver Holt is a cunt of the highest order!! I don’t care how long Scott has been sucking his cock for on twitter!
Kanchelskis – No one should slate you for having an opinion. I sick of hearing, I’ll get slated for this, before anyone starts a post. It’s a blog! It’s about differing opinions. Keane will always edge it for me, over Robbo. The latter was unfortunate to play for United, when we were poor. Robbo was a better all round player, but Keane was the dominate figure under Sir Alex and partly why we owned the 90s.
Great interview STR, I despise his utter spiel on Nani, one thing that you missed asking him was, if he had ever voted for Steven Gerrard given his starfish antics he’s been pulling for years, admittedly Nani can be theatrical at times, but he has been brought up in that environment of football, so he does’nt deserve all the flak that he gets.
WHAT A DICKHEAD
Willie
Afternoon buddy
Why not have them both in the middle of the park?
Cedars – Good afternoon mate. I’d love to see them both in the same team. Just saying, Keano would always edge It for me. At the end of the day, both were great players for United mate.
Kings @ 12:09: “Wilshere is an overrated odd-bodied little cunt. Cleverley is a much better player than him”
Gimme a break; Wilshere is 19, a regular on the second-best team in the country and he’s already an established international whereas Tom Cleverley, who is two/three years older, plays some of the time for Wigan Athletic (a team that is at the bottom of the EPL league table). Take off your rose-tinted specs.
IF JackTheLad were a UTD player you guys would cum =n-your-shorts. He’s left-footed, feisty, and has a great footballing brain; the only downside I can see is that he’s small but that hasn’t stopped Messi, Sneidjer, Iniesta, or Xavi being considered “world class”. IF JackTheLad were a UTD player then all this blather about “replacing” the GingerNinja would be answered by his performances in big games against big opponents.
Give credit where it’s due – JackTheLad is a talent but unfortunately he’s also an Arse’ole.
denton davey – He’s a good player mate. Is he over rated? Can’t tell at this time, but the hype around him is becoming way OTT. He’s English though and Rooney suffered the same fate.
More than a day later and not one example,now that’s odd could it be because it doesn’t happen I wonder.
Nice one parryheid! For the sake of argument, it can now be unquestionably accepted that Nani doesn’t dive.
Should anyone think different, provide an example. Lazy bigots state opinions without reason.
denton – Disagree strongly mate,. Wilshire is vastly over rated and the only reason Tom hasnt played for United is because Fergie wanted him to go on loan in different leagues. I also agree in a year or so Tom will be the talk of the media. Just do not see anything in Wilshire mate.
By the way Denton Tom is only just over a year older. Like Kings says he scores goals.
Sorry for the multiple posts but I can assure you i wouldn’t “cum in my pants” . What is he? He ain’t a great passer, sideways balls, doesn’t score. Feisty? Oh come on mate. He shat the bed when fucking Carrick crunched him back in December. I HONESTLY do not get the hype .
“JackTheLad” ? Excuse me while I clear the sick from the back of my throat. Lets see where Tom is in 2 years. His goal on the pre season had class written all over it and Watford fans voted him player of the year. I am sure he could have been blooded at a team that isnt challenging for trophies, a la Arsenal.
The riddler is back! I remember saying a year ago, that Cleverley could be a better prospect than Wilshere, not many agreed with me. He deserves a chance next season.
Oh fuck me. This will teach me to read a post then comment BEFORE finishing the whole post. Are you implying that Wilshire has done it in “big games”? Which ones denton? He didnt turn up against us twice or any of the top 4. The performance that the media are lauding him over was the Barca one. Well he was chasing shadows all night.
willie – Who is the riddler mate? You or I?
Tom has also played twenty odd more professional games than the midget. Yes you can argue its only Watford, Wigan and Leicester BUT the Championship is arguably as tough as the watered down Premier league these days. I just think Fergie wants him to get more experience hence his loan deals in every division. Next season he will break through at United, i am sure of that.
That’s the riddle KE. You can work it out mate.
Willie – Aah. I thought you meant summat to do with the Cleverley debate ie You , denton or me. I know who you mean now. ph
Whats Toms best position? I’ve heard all sorts of debate, about where to play him.
Wanting Wilshire is Tom Foolery, we have Tom Cleverley.
denton davey – you disappoint me mate. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant all the over the top plaudits. By the way, I actually cringe with embarrassment when the media pin their hopes or hype up our players – Becks in 2002, when the fucking sun had a picture of his foot asking the country to put their hands on it and heal it. The same bunch of fucking cunts who annihilated him after his sending off against Argentina four years earlier. Rooney in 2006 was another example after he fucked his metatarsal against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. So please don’t assume I would shoot my load if it was one of our players that was in the spotlight. I also happen to appreciate top quality players who don’t play for United, which is why I am massively championing a United move for Wesley Sneider as a replacement for Scholes, as I think he is world class, something that I have mentioned a few times on here before, so that totally contradicts your short-sighted comment about me wearing rose-tinted specs. By the way, if you want to talk about a good footballing brain, then Sneijder fits into that category, not Wilshere. He was out of his depth against Barcelona, twice and United, twice. He played ok against Wales and Ghana and all of a sudden he is world class. Do me a favour for fuck sake. I stand by my opinion that Cleverley is a better player. For someone to shine in a team that is struggling and scoring goals, says a lot about his ability. Oh and the reason he has played some of the time for Wigan is because he has been injured, otherwise he would have played in every league game this season. That’s how highly they rate him, like Watford and Leicester before that.
By the way, what the fuck is this JackTheLad nonsense.? Are we giving him pet names now? I suppose you refer to CLLC as J.T and Fat Fwank as super Frankie Lampard do you?
King Eric; WillieRedNut; Kings –
I think that before we can anoint Tom Cleverley to be a better prospect then we need to seem him in action for a top team against a top team. So far, that hasn’t happened. He’s played in the “second division” last year with Watford and this year he’s been in and out of Wigan’s first team (yeah, I know, he’s been injured). He’s older than JackTheLad (got a rise out of you guys on that one, eh ?) and when a guy can hold down a first-team place on a CL-calibre team as a teenager then that’s a terrific accomplishment.
Of course, the jury is out on both of these guys because neither one has played very much but I am unconvinced by the rose-tinted view that our guy is better than the “other guy” because he’s “our guy”. To be sure, the press has gushed over Wilshere – and so has Don Fabio – and, of course, they’ve not seen Tom Cleverley given the same chance to shine on the big stage but, surely, the point is that Tom Cleverley hasn’t been invited to the big stage.
JackTheLad might not haver sparkled in “big games” but he’s held his own – as a 19 year old. Sure he was taught a lesson by Xavi/Iniesta but so were UTD’s midfield in Rome in 2009. And it wasn’t Wilshere’s fault that Niclas Bendtner couldn’t control his tsuperb hrough-ball towards the end of the second leg in Barcelona when Wilshere put him clean-through on goal, one on one. If Bendtner had converted that opportunity then TheArse would have gone back into the lead.
Like I said, let’s give credit where credit’s due.
And like I wrote, if JackTheLad were one of UTD’s squad then I’d bet you’d be singing from a very different hymn book.
You guys may want to take umbrage with the press – not all of them are knew-jerk ABU but a lot of them have no love lost for either SAF or UTD – but they can only report on the guys who have been chosen to wear the Ingerland shirt.
No ifs or buts. There is no space for jack in our box.
denton davey – There’s no scrap, in my scrap book.
Kings. Superb post mate. The sun picture of becks foot. Ha.
Smartalex. Good post at twenty past seven. Clever.
Denton. Hello mate. I think a lot to do with the wilshire hype is its getting absolutely over the top in britain. You are lucky living in canada that you don’t have to listen to this nonsense. I appreciate he is a decent enough footballer but they are going waaay over the top in ingerlund. The best talent since gazza? I mean come on. How’s about rooney and scholesy for starters. That’s the type of over zealous praise I am listening to and reading on a daily basis. And yes I know I don’t have to listen to it. Regards wilshire as a player as I say in my opinion I don’t get the hype. I really don’t. I thought ramsey looked a much better player prior to his injury. Anyway enough of those ponces. Morrison cleverley and tunnicliffe are three english players that have the potential to blow this bastard out the water.
Willie. He seems to play on the wings a lot but I prefer him in the middle of the park making runs into the box.
King Eric @ 21:04: “Morrison cleverley and tunnicliffe are three english players that have the potential to blow this bastard out the water. ”
The video clips I’ve seen of Ravel Morrison (and Paul Pogba) are very, very exciting. Morrison is clearly a huge talent – warts and all – whose speed is electric; Pogba’s ball skills are impressive for a young midfielder and he’s a big guy, too. I haven’t seen anything of Tunnicliffe but from what I can gather (reading the various blogs) you’re not the only one who rates this guy very highly.
Sorry to rain on your parade but I have seen a bit of Tom Cleverley and, I have to say, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he can come into the first-team equation. He has skill but not the raw physical tools – especially speed – that Chicharito or Nani or the Da Silva twins possess. At the top level – the very top of the top level – all the guys have skill, what sets the great players apart from the journeymen is that the stars have skill alllied to speed, vision, and mental toughness.
From what I’ve seen of Cleverley, he has skill and he must have mental toughness to be considered by SAF (who seems to rate this characteristic very highly) but I’m not convinced by his skill or his vision. But I’ve been wrong before and I’m not afraid to say that I’d be delighted to be wrong again !
With regard to the British – errr, English – press’ excitement about Wilshere – that’s what they do. They did the same with WayneBoy when he was that age – and, I have to agree, a much more finished player. I mean, really (!), after watching SAF continually and continuously dominate the EPL since the early nineties, what else can they say except to suggest that the OldFootieKnight is in decline or that he has finally lost the plot. Because “it is what it is”, I really don’t pay them much heed and I certainly don’t get apoplectic when they piss on my parade because I know what a very smart political philosopher said a long time ago – “smile , and remember”. Machiavelli also said that “revenge is best eaten cold”.
denton davey, hope you are well. Fortunately, we have an umbrella. This week, Sir Alex said:
“Cleverley has done very well, particularly in his spell at Watford and then at Wigan. He has improved in each case and he is going to be a top player.”
Admittedly he didn’t specify ‘at United’ when SAF said ‘top player’, but later he alluded to it.
“Welbeck has been fantastic too, it’s just unfortunate that he picked up a bad injury. But they will all be ready for next year. Mame Diouf has done well at Blackburn too and he’ll come back in. They’ve all done well. It proves we were right in putting them there in the first place. For them, it’s that experience of being exposed to regular football that really brings them on so that they are ready to play for Manchester United.”
While I realise that Diouf probably won’t start that many EPL games for us next season, I also recognise that Sir Alex considers Tom Cleverley to be the likely success at United.
As far as ‘coming into the first-team equation’ is concerned. It seems that he was already a variable in that equation at the beginning of this season. He nearly didn’t go on loan.
I’d also like to say that you have brought far more to this particular debate than I have. While our views on Tom are not aligned, I respect and compliment your approach, your method and your views.
SmartAlex @ 3:56: “Sir Alex said: “Cleverley has done very well, particularly in his spell at Watford and then at Wigan. He has improved in each case and he is going to be a top player.””
Sure, but what else is he going to say ? The real test will be what he actually does with Tom Cleverley when next season starts – to be more specific, will he be ahead (or behind) SirRyanGiggs or ThreeLungPark in the pecking order ? It’s all well-and-good to say “he is going to be a top player” but sooner or later Fergy is going to have to put his money where his mouth is – and Tom Cleverley will get the chance (or not) to prove me wrong. Like I wrote before, I welcome the chance to be proved wrong but I’m sceptical about this guy (mostly because if he was as good as the hype-machine claims then he’d never have been sent out on loan, two years running.
My guess is that he’ll be better than Chris Eagles but nowhere near the level of real UTD players like Nani, Valencia, or the Da Silva Twins. I know that that’s a harsh challenge but it’s also the stark reality of the situation he’s facing. One can make the same kind of comparison for Danny Welbeck – is he going to be better than Dimmy, or WayneBoy or Chicharito ?
Getting into the first-team equation is not a “natural progression” any more – you either have star-power or you’re likely to be a squaddie or even surplus-to-requirements. Of course, the team needs willing squaddies – John O’Shea is a wonderful example of being “not quite good enough” but also extremely valuable. For any of these kids – let’s lump together Cleverley, Welbeck, Obertan, Macheda, Smalling, Chicharito, Bebe, Rafael, Fabio and some others like Ravel Morrison and Paul Pogba – to get to the “next level” they need to be really, really special. Being a “top player” isn’t enough – that’s the harsh reality that these guys are confronting.
denton davey, I too looked at Sir Alex’ comment on Cleverley, and considered that he always would reflect positively. Looking further, I felt that of the players mentioned, Tom’s reflection was the brightest. That would definitely be deliberate as Sir Alex is remarkably aware of the impact his words have on his players.
But I look too deep at nuances! More to the point is that hardly any of the players that might make it to the first team actually do. So, success in that regard cannot be the only yardstick of such player’s quality. The only valid measure we experience of a young player’s potential is Sir Alex. And how lucky we are!
Further, the club’s ability to identify and nurture young talent is phenomenal and legendary.
This includes most or all aspects of a player’s life, including loan spells.
So, I accept that Tom Cleverly is the freshly baked sliced bread that we seek.
Should his career lie elsewhere, I will not be disappointed.
But were he to fail as a footballer, I would be shocked, sad and disappointed.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see these academy/reserve kids succeed but the bar has been raised a lot since Fergy’s Fledglings burst on the scene. Perhaps the most critical difference has been the impact of Glazernomics which has meant that SAF has, by and large, switched from scouting known quantities like Ruud or Rio or Rooney to relatively “unknown” talents like CR7 or Anderson or Nani or Smalling or Chicharito AS WELL AS flooding the reserves with kids like Pogba, Petrucci, the Da Silva twins, and so on. Obviously, the change in focus has made it much, much tougher for a talented youngster to progress through the ranks.
Can Welbeck and Cleverley buck the trend towards shunting the locals aside at the last hurdle ? I’d like to think so BUT let’s be realistic about this because, as I wrote before, Danny Welbeck has to be able to elbow aside not just KikoTheKid and Bebe and Obertan and MameBiram Diouf but also DimitarBerbatov, WayneBoy, and Chicharito while being able to protect his back from the challenges of Ravel Morrison, Josh King, John Cofie and Will Keane (and others I’ve probably forgotten or just don’t know about); Similarly, to get playing time Tom Cleverley has to be able to push himself past Nani, Tony Valencia, ThreeLungPark, SirRyanGiggs, Ravel Morrison, Obertan, Bebe and also the Da Silva twins who showed that their talents are versatile as well as another impressive up-and-comer in Larnell Cole.
These are serious obstacles and, to surmount them, Danny and Tom will have to be really and truly special. Danny Welbeck is from Longsight, Ravel Morrison is from Wythenshawe, Ryan Tunnicliffe is from Bury – I dont’ know where Tom Cleverley comes from – and it would be fantastic for a couple of these local lads to reach the pinnacle of their dreams. But it’s an injustice to them to under-estimate the difficult nature of their adventure. The guys standing in their way are also fantastic athletes who have speed, skill and determination-to-succeed. They’re lucky insofar as SAF has shown that he is willing to give his kids a chance but he’s not likely to be sentimental about it – to be a success, they either “fish or cut bait” – and there aren’t many second-chances. It’s a cut-throat business and these kids have their throats under a guillotine.
Another tremendous post denton davey.
There is no doubt that it is extremely difficult, especially under our current approach that you eloquently describe. I feel a tremendous pride reading the names of the obstacles! Wow! Even some brilliant young players will not make the grade here. Many of them will be top players plying their trade in the Prem, or another top league. We all want all of them to succeed, of course, but we accept that not many will remain at United.
Fortunately, our Old Man of the Sea will ensure that our small fry don’t end up as fish fingers.