The press lazily claimed Antonio Valencia was our replacement for Cristiano Ronaldo when he joined in the summer of 2009. Having scored just a handful of goals over a couple of seasons, the media and rival fans scoffed at the idea of Sir Alex Ferguson believing this relative nobody from Wigan was going to replace the Best Player In The World (TM) who had been our top scorer for the past three years running.
In reality, he had been bought as a right winger, with the idea that Wayne Rooney would take up the burden of scoring our goals. Valencia was there to fulfil the traditional roles for his position of scoring a few, assisting more. In his first season that’s exactly how it worked out. He scored 7 goals in all competitions and assisted 9. He effortlessly made the step up to showing he was a player of United quality and settled in to our style of play immediately.
His second season was more or less over just a few weeks in after he broke his ankle against Rangers. He came back in to the team ahead of schedule in March though and hit good form pretty much instantly. He managed to force Nani, who was voted our Players’ Player of the Season out of the Champions League final team.
However, after picking up another injury on International duty this summer he missed out on the pre-season and lost his place in the team again. Ashley Young and Nani have both made great starts to the season and there wasn’t much opportunity for Valencia to try to prove his worth.
Luckily for him, United suffered a whole host of injuries at the back, with our first choice and cover for right-back missing. This allowed Valencia to have a go and for the most part he’s done well. His performance against Norwich was one to forget but generally I like the attacking threat he poses at right back, whilst still being solid enough defensively.
With Nemanja Vidic, Chris Smalling and Rio Ferdinand likely to return to fitness after the International break, Valencia will lose his place at right back. So, where does this leave him?
“There’s a natural instinct in him to help out and defend,” said Ferguson. “Of course, we know all about Antonio’s qualities as an attacker, but he’s so quick and so powerful that he’s also suited to a full-back role. He’s incredibly difficult to beat if you’re trying to get around him. We also see him as an option in the centre of midfield. He’s very disciplined and able to carry out any instruction we give him.”
I’d never really considered Valencia as a central player, despite his appearances there for his country, although hearing the manager mention it got me thinking. The guy is nails and I would love to see him getting stuck in all game. Can you imagine how much fun it would be seeing other team’s hardest players bouncing off him when they went in to make a challenge?
Rio Ferdinand spoke about Valencia on Twitter last season after seeing him “throw weights around” in the gym, insisting that he was the strongest winger in the league. Remember when running at speed against Everton last season he shrugged Leighton Baines off like he was an U-15? Tough players like him, who are also skilful, are a dying breed. Would it be worth a go? Would Valencia be up for it?
“I’ve played at right-back a few times and I’ve enjoyed the position,” he told United’s official Spanish website. “I respect regular players in that position as they pick up quite a few knocks. But I have also played back on the wing this season and I’m happy anywhere on the field. I hope to be ready and to play well when the boss calls me.”
I’d personally prefer us see Jones in the centre of the park, even just as a trial run, because of the qualities he could bring to the position. Bryan Robson played in the centre of defence at West Brom before making the move to midfield and you could easily imagine Jones doing the same. Despite our young defender’s claims that his preference is defence, if Rio and Vidic are both fit, you would imagine they would get the starting positions and he would be keen to play anywhere. It would be good for him to have experience of playing elsewhere and if he pulls it off, we finally have the player we’ve been waiting for since Keano left six years ago.
Whilst we are still having injury problems at the back though, maybe Valencia is worth a punt for midfield. His pace may be wasted here and he may be out of his depth in the centre of the park after spending so much time on the right, whether as a winger or a full-back, but without sounding too negtive, it’s not as if what we already have in place is so special it isn’t worth trying someone else out. Anderson and Cleverley made a great start to the season but our Brazilian has struggled to make the same impression when playing alongside Carrick and Fletcher, who have both failed to set the world alight when given their chance.
Valencia in midfield? Go on Fergie, give it a go.
Man Utd News 24/7
Top article as always Scott!
I think we should test him as a centre midfielder as well. I think he would have done great there.
Valencia’s not answer, I think we united fans are getting desperate for a decent midfield player…phil jones could turn out to be a fantastic midfield player paul pogba too, but until then we need a proper midfielder. Anderson has too many off days he simply cannot be relied on throughout the season
Maybe we can try him there in the next round of Carling cup. Even though the opposition might not be premier league standard, its a cup competition and will put his strength and quick thinking/passing ability to the test
Maybe in a 4-3-3. Not so sure about him playing as a CM in 4-4-2. Ideally you want to see Tony V as a winger, but given Nani’s sublime form, that won’t be easy.
No he’s a right winger and a fucking great one at that and he will force Nani into a subs role once again this season top player.
Jones for CM for me, tony is a winger in my opinion, he shrugs players off with ease thats where he belongs… id rather see nani in CM than tony!
Hi Reds,
Well it has been a very boring weekend. And did anyone read Capello’s comments on Roo? Scott, I agree with SAF on Tony, he is a winner and gives a lot even in his defending. I say give him a go in midfield and let us see if it works out. After all, was it not the English who said a bird in hand is worth two in the bush?
The problem with playing players out of position is not whether they have the necessary attributes, it is that they always don’t take up the correct positions and this puts the team out of shape. We saw this most notably with Valencia against Norwich. He has all the essential qualities of a RB, but his positioning was off during many moments that it left us at risk. This is the same reason Jones cited when saying that he was best as a CB. He said he found himself caught out of position often when playing in MF for Blackburn. We’ve had more examples when MF have been pushed to defence as well.
And from my minimal experience of watching football, I find it hard to argue with that. I generally don’t see the reason to play somebody out of position if it is not due to injuries or suspensions, i.e. just to accomodate them in the team. While I have no idea Valencia may make a solid option at CM in a 4-4-3, I just don’t see the reason why we need to do that. Oh, and I absolutely do not want him anywhere near the middle of the park in a 4-4-2 like Costas has already highlighted.
From the outside, some people may think that Valencia is similar to Park so it may work. Both are hard-workers, will take bullets for the team and can follow the Boss’ instructions better than anyone else. Park, for all his working, is a clever little player and has great link up play with our forwards and MFs; not to mention he is two-footed as well. I can’t see Valencia being as effective as Park centrally given that he is one-footed and doesn’t have Park’s link-up play especially when moving towards the middle.
As parryheid says, Valencia is a great right-winger and RB, let’s just leave it at that. I think this is a squad game, and even if he misses a few games now, he will be needed later on when we need a more direct and physical option against lower teams as opposed to Nani’s trickery. The fact that we have the best three wingers in the league gives me great comfort when I sleep at night.
i think we will see him in the center of the park in few games..
as we all know, its our new approach to master the versatility and for me, Him, jonesy and smalling are real good at versatility..
just curious though,
i heard many times that valencia has played CB and LB and CM for his country..which position he hasnt played for country? goalie?
Good evening red devils..
I think he’d be a superb central midfielder but I’m not sure how his passing game would stack up. I mean yes, he’s a great crosser, but how does he do picking passes and moving the ball around the middle of the park? We’d have to try him out and see. That minor concern aside I think he’d be great. He’s one of those players who is physically capable of playing anywhere, and who has the work ethic to put in the best shift he can in any position.
its when cleverly returns we will see united play the side we saw before the injury pile up. But no question fergie should have signed a CM to upgrade the numbers in the CM
off topic, Tom C is definitely being geared up for the games ahead. a couple of post back have some line ups predicted for the pool game, found it odd he wasn’t on any of them. then i checked out the “oracle” a quote from SAF makes me think he’s being looked on as a real solution – well partial at least check it out it starts on the first page and ends on the second.
http://www.manutd.com/en/Fanzone/News-And-Blogs/2011/Oct/Today-at-Old-Trafford.aspx?pageNo=1
Apparently there’s a bloke called Wesley Sneijder who’s nota bad midfielder. Perhaps we should have a look at him.
bad idea, he’d be easy to figure out after a couple of games. A cm needs to be comfortable with both feet, even if he has a preferred one. Bad idea, dont do it SAF
The problem is not so much with our midfield as it is with our defence. All our current defenders want to play more as forwards than in their own positions. In the past few games we’ve played a 4-4-2 but it looked more like a 1-7-2 because all our defenders want to do is run up and left the back completely blank. We usually end up with only one defender trying to stop our opposing counter attack.
Its simple if he wants to play he has to dislodge Nani or Young, funny no one would have thought this a few months ago. Quite frankly our first choice wingers are Nani and young. Back up – Park and Tony V. If Welbeck continues to impress that means Hernandez on the bench too. It does look a bit weird but if thats the way forward i’m all for it, one can never have too much quality
I agree with Costas and Balaji. Could maybe see it in a 3 man midfield, where his lack of positional awareness could be compensated for. But not in a 2 man midfield. Same goes for Park tbh…he’s been excellent in 3 man midfields (I remember vs AC Milan in 2010 he was quality)…but in a 4-4-2 he’s a bit of a liability, as clever as he is, he doesn’t have the positional sense.
I can understand it when we’re chasing a game, especially against weaker opposition (e.g Norwich last week, but not in any other case. Who remembers when he moved there vs Arsenal last season and within 30 seconds we conceded a goal to Ramsey which he was at fault for. Or the second half vs Barca, where he had rings run around him?
Back too Valencia though,I remember a couple of seasons ago, around January time, when Nani came into excellent form. I was thinking Valencia could move into midfield (we were playing 4-3-3 at the time). His driving runs would support Rooney, and Nani could keep his place on the flank. Didn’t happen but it could be an option for the near future.
I could imagine Young or even Nani playing centrally, but Valencia? I just can’t see it to be honest.
He plays behind the striker for country, I have heard. Thought about it at the end of last season, but not totally convinced, primarily because of his one-footedness. If he starts pinging those balls from center of the park to wings, instead of the other way round, he could be something, though not against top quality opposition IMO. Actually I get a bit pissed when I see us having to consider these options. We are the fucking Man Utd. and should have better options TBH.
I can see him doing a job in the centre of midfield, but I don’t think he is the solution to the problems we have in there at times.
I think Fergie really likes his work rate and discipline, so wants to find a way to incorporate him into the team. Atm, Nani has to be a dead cert for that right wing berth.
vs Barcalona
Rooney
Young Nani
Anderson Fletcher
Jones
Evra Valencia
Vidic Rio
Its worth a try say in the Carling cup …
@ Jeet
I agree that we should have better options and for the majority of supporters to have very little faith in all but about 2 CMFs id not really what you would accept for MUFC. But this team did win the league last season without Young, Cleverly, Welbeck and Jones. With Valencia injured for a large portion of the also I don’t think that SAF would speak of the idea of Valencia in the center if it wasn’t a good option. As for the loss of Scholes and Wes, they didn’t play or have an influence last season. O’shea played a fair bit but he has been replaced. I look forward to the introduction of Pogba and others into the 1st team.
Lots of valid points raised. I guess it’s hard to know until he’s tried. But if the boss thinks there’s something in it, then I’d have to say it is worth trying. Mostly, though, I want to see Cleverley and Anderson play together again. I am curious to see what impact this has on Ando. It seems his good form occurred when TC was there with him. After TC got injured, Ando turned in some poor performances. While “chemistry” between players can be important, it shouldn’t matter that much.
Like others on here, I’d like to see Jones try the midfield.
Is Berba the answer to our defensive worries?
No absolutely not – maybe Valencia could play in midfield as a solution to injuries but that would be it
We don’t need midfield solutions our main player Tom Cleverley has been injured and we’ve not really got on without him – so let the kid come back and take his rightful place where he belongs.
Remember with Pogba to come and Ryan T behind him – with Anderson getting better and hopefully Fletch getting back to normal – and Carrick/Giggs covering – the midfield will be just fine.
Of course though one could always pose the mother of all questions.
Is Sneijder coming yet?
Yes he would be an answer. Strong as an ox, can pass, power and pace and an intelligent player. I have wanted to see him play there for ages.
against liverpool and man city we need to play 5 across midfield,we look a bit vulnerable with a 4 man midfield,cleverley+anderson+fletcher/carrick/jones.
i think valencia could be a great asset at right back,positioning will come with games and given the injury record of the twins he will get his fair share of games .he has got great speed and good delivery and would provide a great outlet to nani as well(whether he uses it or not is a different matter)
parryheid – I know you rate Valencia over Nani but barring injury or drastic drop in form nani is a shoe in for the right wing. Having said that it’s a squad game.
Anyway get Tom back and playing and there isn’t a problem in the middle.
Balaji – Hello mate. Thats just it though pal. At United players ARE played in different positions as its what the manager likes. Right from the youth set up onwards they are tried all over the park. Tunni had a season at full back.
Nani ain’t a central midfielder. Not a wimp by any means but not enough to stamp his authority.
Also who are these “top class midfielders ” we need? I don’t see too mnay out there that are available. And don’t come out please with Hamsik and cunts like that.
Interesting. If SAF thinks he can play in a CM role. I would like to see him there.
Recently, I read a quote by Steve Jobs. It went something like this – “People do not know what they want until you show it to them”. Only a few geniuses are able to envision the future, to think differently. Sir Alex Ferguson, like Steve Jobs, has this ability. We can’t imagine Valencia in a central role because we can’t envision him playing there. So, if Sir Alex thinks he can play there, then I would want to see him play there. He needn’t be good. But. I would like to see the quality that Sir Alex saw in Valencia that made him think that Valencia would play well in CM.
Cedars, where art thou? Still looking for your posts pal. Like I said in a previous thread. RoM isn’t RoM without you.
By the way, it seems Cedars letter kinda worked. Scott’s got some posts on. Wonder how he “apologized”
Balaji – My last para wasn’t aimed at you mate!!
i think valencia played through the centre in one of our games last season(everton???) and did a pretty decent job.but at that time we were looking for a goal and the other team had no attacking ambitions.i dont think he can be regular CM for us.that position would not really do justice to his style of play and his skills.
Valencia isn’t a full back and he isn’t a centre midfielder. Its square pegs and round holes again. Yes, he can do a job at right back if there are injuries BUT this can only go on for so long as demonstrated against Stoke and Norwich. I heard he plays in the middle for Ecuador at times, but they hardly set the international stage alight!
Have to agree with Jeet about his one footedness. Thats what stopped a certain evil cockney from playing there for us many many years ago on a regular basis.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. To hold Fletcher (who needs just as many meals as games at this moment in time), and Carrick responsible for Anderson “struggling” is stupid. Too much hope put on Cleverly’s shoulders and he’s not even back from injury. We need another option in there who’s natural position is centre midfielder. Whether that be from the youth system or a transfer is purely up to the manager. For me it seems the former.
Tony V is a right winger and thats his position. Its unfortunate for him that Nani is on fire at the moment. His best way to respond is to keep doing what he’s doing and also go back to the training ground and work on his left foot. Otherwise I’ll doubt he’ll start many games in his favoured position.
I always wondered how Berba would fare in CM. The guy is the creator. Excellent technique. Keeps the ball. Wonderful, sublime passes. And great vision. Also doesn’t matter if he isn’t that fast. Plus, he can tackle quiet well. Has he ever played in CM? I don’t remember. I would also like to see him partnering with Cleverley. I feel it could be something like a Xavi-Iniesta pairing.
what is it with this Sneider thing? IF only we can have Ando and Clev performing consistently, Fletch coming back to his best with JS, Giggs and Carrick covering then all will be well imo. Rem Next season, Pogba, Ravel and Ryan T can all step up. I wish we just consider Sneider a miss, we missed ronaldinho, didn’t we?
@King Eric, Yeah mate, as I said I think Valencia might work in a 4-3-3, but I just don’t want us to get into that habit again. As a stop gap, yes. Permanently, no! Oh, and I knew your last statement wasn’t referring to me. I personally don’t think we “desperately need” new mid-fielders. Tom will step up this season to control our MF, and we still need to give Ando one full season before we can write him off completely like some people have done. Plus, Pogba is already in the CL squad, so you can bet on him coming on in the next couple of years along with Morrison and Tunnicliffe. So, yeah, I don’t think we need to shell out to get the Sneijders or the Goetzes of this world.
@RMW, Tell me about it. I have been wondering about it for a long time. The only close person I can think of who had such a languid style for a mid-fielder was my favorite player of my gen – Zinedine Zidane. Nearly every other mid-fielder has had high energy levels with the exception of Zizou who made football look like an art form. Berbatov could’ve made a similar type of mid-fielder because he has the vision, close-control and passing ability to slice open defenses without having the energy levels. Sadly, however, I don’t think the modern game – and especially the Premier League – allows for such kind of players anymore. But, yeah, to answer your question, I think Berbatov might’ve made a great creative central mid-fielder.
@King Eric, Yeah mate, as I said I think Valencia might work in a 4-3-3, but I just don’t want us to get into that habit again. As a stop gap, yes. Permanently, no! Oh, and I knew your last statement wasn’t referring to me. I personally don’t think we “desperately need” new mid-fielders. Tom will step up this season to control our MF, and we still need to give Ando one full season before we can write him off completely like some people have done. Plus, Pogba is already in the CL squad, so you can bet on him coming on in the next couple of years along with Morrison and Tunnicliffe. So, yeah, I don’t think we need to shell out to get the Sneijders or the Goetzes of this world.
@RMW, Tell me about it. I have been wondering about it for a long time. The only close person I can think of who had such a languid style for a mid-fielder was my favorite player of my gen – Zinedine Zidane. Nearly every other mid-fielder has had high energy levels with the exception of Zizou who made football look like an art form. Berbatov could’ve made a similar type of mid-fielder because he has the vision, close-control and passing ability to slice open defenses without having the energy levels. Sadly, however, I don’t think the modern game – and especially the Premier League – allows for such kind of players anymore. But, yeah, to answer your question, I think Berbatov might’ve made a great creative central mid-fielder.
Apologies for clicking on Submit twice. Twitchy fingers.
i actually think he’d be quite good in a three man midfield.. playing as a rcm
also im really glad we didn sign snejder.. very very glad…
though i do feel we need to get tunncliff back after 6 months..
he’s a damn good player already and would seriously contest for the midfield..
jones in midfield would work but only against barca where he’d cover messi in the false 9 position..
otherwise he’s a great tackler and a runner with the ball but he doesn’t have the positional awareness to play there….
he’ll be our first choice cb next season.. him or smalling..
for liverpool i really hope we play with 5 in the midfield.. cleverly’s and anderson’s link up coup[led with nani and young’s raw pace also add to it rooney’s rage.. we’ll have a cracker on our hands..
for liverpool
de gea
jones ferdinand vidic evra
carrick
cleverly anderson
nani young
rooney
Anderson is fat and needs to lose weight, can’t believe he calls himself a footballer, for £50,000 a week my body would always be in tip top condition.
I think the solution to our midfield problems is making Anderson perform more consistently. He has all the attributes to dictate a game from midfield.
Valencia is an awesome center mid! I remembered seeing him in action during his wigan days against liverpool. He totally dominated the midfield. Gerrard was destroyed by him!!! In the end the ref had no choice but to send him off so liverpool can win….he’s that gd!!!!
For me Jones would be perfect in our midfield, just a shame we have so many injuries at the back at the moment. To be honest though it shouldn’t have come to this. Everyone knew we needed a central midfield player in the summer and even as far back as last season, so whay wasn’t anything done about it.
On a totally different note my dog is in a competition for a calendar so please copy and paste the link below into your address bar and vote for KAIBER.
http://www.metlife2012calendar.com/april.php
His daily walk involves a stroll past Old Trafford every morning so that must qualify him to get his link on here.
Thanks.
King Eric.
I certainly do rate him,Nani is also a top player same as he was last season and the season before yet still could not shift Tony V from the right wing position and come the game against Liverpool I will be gobsmacked if Nani and Hernandez are not used as subs.Another thing some go on about Tony’s one footedness well excuse me but I want my right winger using his right foot same as I wanted Giggs using his left.Going past their defence to the byline and crossing will do nicely thank you.
A YOUNG, P JONES, A VALENCIA, L NANI. Wow! What a midfield. What do you think? Perfecto!
NRD – Hello mate. I know what you are saying with this square pegs round holes but someone posted a link from one of our youth scouts or coaches. He said it isnt about that its about trying them in different positions from a young age so they are comfortable ANYWHERE on the park. I know this doesn’t apply so much to the players that haven’t come from the youth system but you can bet money they try it in training. Hell as we have recently found out Berba is a centre half at times?!! His one footedness is the problem though.
jay – Nonsense. Do you really think Tony Strudwick and Fergie etc would have him be fat? He is just a stoxky well built lad. This fat tag annoys me. It wouldnt be allowed..
rohan – saw your late post the other day and cheers mate. I agree almost entirely with your line up for the dippers but if Fletch plays well tomorrow I would like to see him in there. He hasnt played at Anfield for a while now and we need his energy.
Daniel – It will be Tom Cleverley that will control our midfield on his return. I know what you mean though.
“We also see him as an option in the centre of midfield. He’s very disciplined and able to carry out any instruction we give him.” So say’s SAF. Wow to do what the gaffer says is hard to find? That is a strength of Rooney.
we still do need a CM in january,relying on anderson is a bit of a risk,i hope he comes good but i wouldnt bet my money on it.He needs to use his right foot more often and certainly needs to work on his finishing.He’s been at the club for 4 years now and his finishing has shown absolutely no improvement.
These are 2 really important years for anderson,he would be desperate to get into the brazilian team before 2014,the midfield spot there is up for grabs,but he should really start performing for consistently.
The worry with Valencia is that he is so completely right footed. Even at RB he has been exposed on occasion by being so committed to weight on the left. Don’t get me wrong, I am a big fan, and agree with all the positives that are being said, but the next Franz Beckenbauer? I think not.
But I think this discussion misses the mark. What Ferguson is recognizing in Tony is not the next Scholes, it is a disciplined technically excellent player who can play in multiple positions when needed. Also, the kind of skilled player you want on the pitch if fit. Rather have him on Right wing myself with Nani right behind and inside. But that is not going to happen often.
Anyway, Can’t wait for the trip to Antfields. Hope we crush em. Comeon U Reds!
parryheid – Yeah but it can get very predicatable. I love Tony as a winger, don’t get me wrong but with Nani, defenders don’t know which way he is gonna go. You only have to watch him on match days. The lad is triple marked at times.
Simon – Yeah but who? Its common knowledge we were in for Sneijder but we know how that played out. Nasri by all accounts fucked Fergie off beyond belief. Fergie is going with Tom, Ando, Fletch, Carrick, Giggs, Park till the next batch are ready anytime soon like Pogba and Tunni.
No idea if hes the answer or not, but one thing I do know is that if he is given the job he’ll grab the opportunity with both hands and attempt to fill his role to the best of his abilities. Because lets face it, that’s the Tony V way.
totally agree. carrick and fletcher have been shite this season.
i think phil jones could do a job an attacking midfielder ,his runs with the ball are brilliant and his passing too is decent,but only if we play a 5 man midfield with carrick and anderson behind him,assuming cleverley is not fit
it would be lucas vs jones,we all know who will win that battle
sidhant – Disagree mate. Anderson has scored about 5 goals in his last 8 games going into last season so some improvement there. We won’t get fuck all in january, no need to unless we have horrendous injuries. Fletch will be back to his best by then and Tom and Ando will be running the show. Our midfield from last season which has been improved on imo got us a league title, a champions league final and fa cup semi. Cannot be that bad. Tom and Anderson’s pairing was a revelation early season till his injury.
fitzemgood andtight – Neither of them have barely played and when Carrick has he has done fuck all wrong. At least he provides a shield. Fletcher just needs more games.
Phil Jones is NOT an attacking midfielder imo.
redcrab – spot on pal.
Oh and before folk disagree our midfield has improved with the Tom and Ando pairing because we lost Scholes and that judas curly haired cunt. Scholes never regained his early season form and Hargreaves has done fuck all for 3 seasons. Fergie knows what the score is.
King Eric
how about flamini?he was great in his last season with arsenal and could do the job in the short term for us as a defensive midfielder giving cleverley and anderson more freedom.He hasnt been playing much for milan and we could get him for a reasonable price in january.
Nani would get stiffened early doors at Anfield they will take the yellow to put him out of the game,quite like the suggestion that Park plays midfield.For me replacing Anderson who I think is a waste of rations,just my opinion.
sidhant – No offence mate but no thanks. I fucking hate that cunt Flamini.
He hasn’t been playing for Milan for a reason. He is shit. Granted he had a good season at Arsenal but he wouldnt improve our squad one iota.
Fletch well said, Jones, Smalling and Tony. Have preferred positions to play. But are to good not to play. So RB,CM are other options. SAF will develop players over time, will find where they work best. Like Rooney moves or plays differently depending on who else plays. Lil Pea he is in the hole. Welbeck they flip flop who’s up and who is back. Berba likes to go deep so Rooney plays more forward. ect. ect.
@King Eric says:
nah, i agree with my previous statement. i think both of them have been shite. i know they havent played much but when they have they have been woefull.
i would have been fans of both players in the past but the game has moved on since players like them were effective. they offer very little going forward and they dont even break up the play as much to compensate.
i would give fletcher a bit more leeway because he has has his health problems but carrick is not good enough anymore imho. i call him the crabman because he can only pass the ball sideways!!
It was really evident in our recent champions league games that he is rubbish especially when he comes into the team for someone like cleverly.
players like cleverly and wilshire are the future of english cental midfield players.
I think we should have sold carick to spurs or someone in the summer, got a bit of cash and bought anybody else! ive nothing against carrick personally, just not good enough for united anymore.
In the future in the CL a MF of….
Jones, Pogba, TC
KE, Fletch anyone, what was the last team to win the CL with a 4-4-2? 99 Man Utd?
Tony V is damn right-footed. But then when u think of Maradona the Player (not the fat slob now) he was totally left-footed and was the best player in the world at the time.
Of course 2-footed players have an advantage in confusing defenders.
Anyway, why the talk about Sneijder now? Over-paid player who isn’t better than Nani. Getting him will be bad for our team spirit. But getting his missus is a different story.
@Balaji
My thoughts exactly mate! Zizou is exactly the player that Berba’s style reminds me of. I have to say this is also one of the reasons he disappoints me a lot. Because, I feel, a person of his calibre should be able to perform better. Maybe I expect too much of him. But, its only because I feel he is that good a player. I mean if a 40 yr old Zizou could carry an average French team to the World Cup Final, then a 30 yr old Berba should surely be able to produce, at least, that form for United. I am not asking for too much, am I?
@King Eric
I agree about our youth system. How players are tried at different positions to see how they adapt to those positions. For example, I recently saw a video of Cleverely’s time at United. He started out at Right Back before he became a Central Midfielder. So, we know that in dire situations (red cards, injuries, etc), Cleverley can play at Right Back if needed. I have to reiterate just how beautiful our squad is – every player has 2 or more positions they can play at. Just see how versatile it is. Just goes on to show how amazing Sir Alex is.
Could be an option, but I don’t see Fergie going for it, unless we get injuries in center mid. As for Nani? He’s playing so well atm, you can’t leave the lad out of any game. Nani won’t be intimidated by anyone. He’ll play in this game, and shut the dippers up! We’ve got our backsides tanned on the last 3 visits to the dump. 442 hasn’t worked, so I hope Fergie goes with 3 in the middle. While I agree we could do with another CM. Flamini isn’t that midfielder.
Hey Willie, our mate Cedars on a walk about. Good for him, vanquishing the demons with drink and smoke!
Who ever SAF signs next will fit in a slot, young gun to go with more young guns or that player he thinks is the right man to fit his plan a mid 20 MF with ball control and magic is his feet.
Jello Zibbie! He’ll be back mate. A few days to himself and he’ll be the same old CedarsDevil.
SAF will be the gaffer for 3 or 4 more years. He will hand over a team to the next gaffer who will only need 1 to 3 new players to put his stamp on the team. Leaving his beloved club as good as he can for the transition. Academy to be in auto pilot so much talent in the pipe line that all should be well.
His near misses the last 3 years. Villa, Nasri, Benzema, Ramsey, Verne and WS, maybe Sanchez?
I now RMW was asking earlier, I feel the same a few days and he will be back same as always.
The Rugby WC flop should help Rooney in the press, they have something else to go after.
Know ,,, wow.
I must disagree with StR on this one….He’s no longer playing CM for his country. I watched the Ecuador-Venezuela match and they pretty much were copying our 4-4-2 formation, with the team built around Valencia on the right wing.
Aside from that, Valencia is one of the most one-footed players we have in the team. He’s very one dimensional, even though he is great at it, he can only beat his player by going right. He isn’t very skilled either, and has trouble holding the ball too.
Valencia is a winger. He’ll get his chance to play. But as long as Nani is in this form, then he will have to wait.
i really hope pogba gets another chance in the champs league game.. fergie’s sure to rest many first teamers
who else do you guys think will be given a chance against that team with the weird name
im afraid we might waste him like Alan Smith!!!
fitzemgoodandtight – Yeah definitely Fletch more leeway mate but Carrick in our Euro campaign with Giggsy was quality. He makes plenty of forward passes if their is movement. I find it a myth he only goes sideways. There were some stats (I know they don’t always show the true picture ) and he made more forward passes than Xavi last season. Not saying he is as good obviously but still think he has a part to play. I find him better in Europe actually mate than the league.
I just don’t get the hype around that freaky bodied little cunt Wilshire. Spends too much time on twatter and facebook giving it large. I have never seen him do anything to convince me. His passing aint great, he thinks he is tough but isnt, doesn;t score goals and control games. Cleverley will be twice the player. Already is.
Devil310 – valencia has dislodged nani before, nani has improved a bit but he as not improved to the point where he is like the dazzling wingers like gigs in his prime, or ronaldo. For me nani can improve even more, he is doing well but he can still do much much better
Improved a bit? He’s already putting in dazzling performances, and scoring world class goals. Valencia has it all to do imo, to remove Nani from that right wing. That’s why Fergie is trying him at RB. He wants him in the team, but sees Nani and Young as our first choice wingers. That could change though. It’s a long hard season, so he may get his chance again.
WillieRedNut – since jan 2010 he has been to that level. But he is still a bit inconsistent, yes he can score goals out of nothing, but he still has this habit of going off the boil and frustrating the life out of everyone
When Valencia returns to the wing his interaction with the fullback behind him will benefit from this spell at RB. He now has a greater understanding of how to work the RW/RB axis.
Welbeck alluded to something similar in the manutd . com interview:
Q: You played wide at times when coming through the ranks but did you always know your future would lie in the middle?
“Yes, definitely. I’ve always classed myself as a striker. I think, growing up through the United Academy, if you’re an attacking player, you will play across the front three – on the right wing, left wing and up front. You always get mixed around and I think it’s a really good trait to have because you can play in different positions. When you get pushed out there in a game, it’s not alien to you”
Sounds like Ronnie, at stages of his career?
I rate Nani at close to world class level. He simply has to play on that right hand side. He’s a jester on the pitch. Players like him, can frustrate the life out of most fans. But, he provides a trickery that can bamboozle defenders. Fergie left him out against Barcelona at Wembley. I don’t think he’ll make that mistake again.
@FITB – I agree he can dislodge him anytime, but that would mean Nani would have to get injured or drop his current form (like he did last year).
Don’t get me wrong, I love Tony, but if you compare both at top form, Nani is a better player (IHO).
Nani is a good player at times but never in his puff will Tony V play second fiddle to him,as for Nani being close to world class Not in my opinion is he any where near.At times it is like watching Gibson playing.
Personally I think Berbs is the answer to our mid-field problem. He is sublime and his distribution skill is second to non in world football
That’s shit talk fella. Not the first time either.
Think so ? You have a strange view of world class methinks.
That Gibson comment clinched it. Respect your view, but it’s BS.
Putting aside the term ‘world class’ as too much semantic discussion is required, it is at least true to say that Nani is the best winger in the Premiership. He is probably the best player too, and would be in every manager’s wishlist were he available.
Balaji @ 12:41: “The problem with playing players out of position is not whether they have the necessary attributes, it is that they always don’t take up the correct positions and this puts the team out of shape.”
Hiya, I’ve got to disagree with your argument about “out of position”. My opinion is that these guys are terrific footballers and they can adapt to changing roles. Of course, they might do better in some roles than others but, really, it’s up to SAF to determine what’s best for the team. AND he’s usually right !
That Gibson comment is well justified for a few years now I’ve watched Nani firing balls high wide and not so handsome exactly like Gibson and as I said earlier Tony V has for two consecutive years blew Nani out of the water and I have no doubt the third year is upon us or am I wrong ?.
Blew him out the water? A tad ott. He blew in 9 league goals last season. Gods knows how many assists. Certainly, in Valencia’s first season, he had the edge on Nani. Wouldn’t dispute that. Two top wingers. Nani’s form atm, means he gets the right hand side of the pitch. He’s less predictable than Tony v. Two footed as well. Fucking hell! The lads got insane skills. We should be lauding him. Not picking holes in his game. I like Valencia too. Big fan of Young. It’s all good….
WillieRedNut @ 19:32: “Valencia has it all to do imo, to remove Nani from that right wing. That’s why Fergie is trying him at RB. He wants him in the team, but sees Nani and Young as our first choice wingers. That could change though. It’s a long hard season, so he may get his chance again.”
Totally agree – smelling salts for Willie !
One year ago when he had an unchallenged run of games as Tony V was injured Nani was lauded on here as world class.As soon as Tony returned from injury our two footed player was dispossessed and struggled further infield.As Denton Davey a couple of posts up said SAF decides and he is usually right.I concur with that,I recognize Nani’s qualities and also his frailties.Also one year ago in fact less Hernandez was getting the same world class status and yet this year he is not firing but I think that is just a blip and he will come again, think some posters on here should give Tony V the same courtesy.
Parryheid. Absolute nonsense mate. Nani is world class. Why do you think he is triple marked? Like watching gibson. Fuck me. That’s the most silly thing I have read on here for time. Nani is different class and can win games single handedly.
Close I said. He ain’t there yet. Tony v has been lauded on here. Nani on current form though, is tough to shift. I never described Hernandez as world class. Top finisher like, but still to improve on other parts of his game. People say to me, but Valencia got the nod ahead of Nani at Wembley? How did that turn out? Having grafters is all well and good. Barcelona have taken the game to new lengths. We need players who can do something different. Players that are comfortable on the ball. Cleverley is that type of player. Nani is as well. Not saying if Nani had started the game, we’d of beat Barcelona. They played out their skin. Valencia will be an important player for us. The boss is trying some things with him. He’s done ok at RB, considering it isn’t his natural position. Who knows, maybe a stint in CM?
King Eric – fantastic news on cleverly, I maybe wrong but he can be the next xavi if he keeps improving. Great on the ball, never wastes a ball and always looking to play PPL in
Nani is consistent as fuck the last eighteen months. He has it all. Pace. Tricks. Both footed. Tracks back. Scores goals and creates shit loads of assists. I love Tony but Nani is on a whole different level. A match winner. I remember watching motd after rentboys game and at one point there were FOUR defenders tracking him. How the fuck can he be compared to Gibson? Fuck me. He rarely underperforms these days. If we hadn’t seen Ronnie in his pomp Nani would be appreciated much more by some doubters. I pay eight hundred and seventeen quid a year and am glad I have the pleasure of watching him grace OT. Best winger in Europe at present. Defenders don’t know how to deal with him. He can get to byline and put a ball on a sixpence or cut in and hit a thunderous shot into the top corner. He is a top lad too. Very humble an quiet but a real joker. As I say I love Valencia but at present Nani is in a different league.
Fitb. Hello mate. I agree. There is no bigger fan of Tom than me. He has got it all.
jayKay – no way in hell is berbatov the answer, when PPL say well scholes went from a striker into a CM, scholes was not even 20 and he hardly played as a striker for much of his career maybe a season or 2. But berbs as not got the energy or the discipline to play the CM role, lets not do another alan smith
The thing with Nani too, defenders can’t push him onto his weaker foot. He doesn’t have a weak foot. He can kill you with either foot. Class act. I”m just a humble mutha fooker with a big ass opinion!
we need a a hoppie right
Agreed, Valencia is a class player, but Nani is on another planet. Along with Rooney, he’s the player who strikes fear into the opposition- as some have said- triple marked. Can go both ways, which is a friggin nightmare for defenders.
Last season, a couple of things happened. The Carragher tackle knocked him a bit…but more than that, Valencia’s return pushed him out onto the left flank. It’s because he’s the more versatile of the 2 that he got shifted, as Valencia can’t really play anywhere else but the right. Anyway, his performances on the left were dodgy, he didn’t perform to the level we know he can….but I’m sure if he’d been given more chances on the right flank, he would’ve performed.
Sparkz. Spot on. You too Willie.
Another quality of Nani is you can hit a forty yard pass to him when he is tight to the touchline and he will bring it down with ease on his chest or a fancy take with his feet. I will be the first to admit when he disappeared out the side for a few weeks a couple of years ago I thought his time was up. I wouldn’t have been bothered if he had gone. I remember a couple of stinkers. One against spurs in that five two come back and stoke away when he was hauled off at haltime and replaced by giggs who instantly set up berba. Two different seasons I know but he was so fucking frustrating. Everyone knew though he had the ability. Thank fuck its Fergie. Who is the boss and not me. Each season he is gettng better and better and is still just 24. He will become one of worlds best players.
Regarding anfield as long as we turn up this time we will beat the cunts. We haven’t turned up last three times. Fuck me. They aint even a decent side but its their cup final. As I said before got a feeling we will win this game. They are not the team they were when they had stevie me and ladyboy in their pomp, Alonso and Mascherano. Just need to keep that horrible goofy cheating cunt Suarez quiet.
Valencia is never a central midfield player, in that position you need more than pace and power, it requires good positioning and passing qualities, reading and intercepting e.t.c, i wouldn’t say these are valencia’s qualities, he can do a job there if we’re extremely desperate but no more than that.
Speaking of CM how exciting will it be in 2-3 yrs time. I really don’t think Sir Alex will buy any midfielders at all. Looks like pogba will be in 1st team by the end of the season and tunnicliffe the next season hopefully and morrison surely must make it..
whats the general take on petrucci , drinkwater, james, norwood? These guys were promising at one stage
I dnt know if you guys saw it, but in PES he is stated as having CM qualities as well, so this means he can play in central midfield instead of only on the wings like currently, and if he is taken off right back against the scousers and played alongside Ando or Tom then he could use his power and passing skills to good effect I believe… Fergie to give it a go is another thing thou
No
@denton, Apologies for the late reply, frigging opposite time zones. I completely agree that SAF is usually right when he plays one of our players out of position. Case in point Park as a central mid-fielder against Milan a few years ago or even Valencia at RB till he had the horror show against Norwich. As I said, it might work as a stop-gap option, but to completely change a player’s role just to accomodate him in the team instead of on the bench is something I am not too keen on. As usual, SAF is the master, if he thinks Valencia will work as a CM, then I have no qualms with it. Like I’ve made it known before, I blindly follow the man and think everything he does is right.
From my observation, Nani is the player who can assist Rooney to score goals provided Rooney dosen’t waste sitters provided to him.
@Balaji: Park has played most of his career in CM, his performances there for PSV against Milan were probably the reason why Fergie bought him and IMO is definitely his best position because a winger he is not…
personally, i think Berba is the answer to to our midfield woes. He has sublime skill and his passing and distribution is second to none in world football.
Heard it,You ain’t convincing me flatters to deceive only reason he’s playing right wing just now is because Valencia was given time to recover after a knock on international duty and then filling in at right back.Nani hasn’t got the mental capacity to be world class his head drops at the slightest setback,as for showing Valencia onto his weaker side do you mean like Ashley Cole does Chelsea’s World Class left back.
Well Written Scott.
A few of us considered Valencia in midfield seasons ago, and I don’t see why it couldn’t work now. Powerhouse aside, Tony doesn’t get enough credit for his skillful link up play and his control on the ball. He might only have one foot but he’s clinical with it – one of our best passers in the final third. Add his strength and his defensive game, why couldn’t Tony perform a reserved role in midfield for us? He’s already better than average at RB…
But for our starting 11 central midfield, Anderson and Cleverly are our best pairing right now. Ando plays his best alongside a similar player who can defend and attack as well as he does. Watch him and Tom against Arsenal and you see they play off eachother, just like him and Hargreaves. Ando can play the role in front of Carrick as well, but his movement is anchored by the gap between them whenever he runs forward. Thats why Ando with Carrick is more restricted and reliant on Hollywood passes. With Tom its opposite, they play loads of passes between them and keep possession moving up and down the pitch while swapping roles. Without doubt they are our best pairing atm.
The irony is Fletcher is basically the same type of player as well. He doesn’t just sit, or bomb forward, he defends as well as he attacks, and he retains the ball well in midfield. Fletcher in top form is one of the best midfielders in the league, but he needs more games before he’s back to his very best. Must say wouldn’t mind seeing Jones in midfield if we ever needed to. He can stick a boot in, dribble the ball from defence, and he can pass. Very tidy player. Not a bad candidate should injuries start piling up, and its nice to know we’ve got options in midfield
King Eric @ 22:31. Spot on mate. If Nani ain’t world class already who in his age group is? He’s one of the best footballers anywhere, and he’s only gonna get better and better. Im glad he didn’t take the 7 shirt when it was available, but once Micky Owen calls it a day at OT theres only one player who deserves it imo. Nani was born to wear that shirt, and the history behind it goes back a sight further than Ronaldo. Give him a year or two, I think he’ll be ready.
Who said I was trying to convince you parry? It’s my position. He’s close to being world class. You seem blinkered on this, so I won’t continue the discussion. Suffice to say though, you’ll be proved wrong. Your Gibson comment was laughable. Nani ripped Cole apart at OT. In the process, scored a smashing goal. Class act, and getting better with every game.
I’ll ask the question slightly differently for the guys who think Nani should be given the right wing position.Do you’s think Valencia in his third year at the club has gone backwards as a player ? In other words do you’s think his time has come and gone ? If not how in hell do you’s think Nani should take the position he has been unable to take for the last two years.
You get it wrong again Parry. It’s not about Valencia going backwards. I don’t believe he has. For me, I’m going by form. Nani is red hot atm. Since Nani tore Arsenal a new one in that game were he produced a piece a magic to bamboozle Clichy, there’s been a change in the lad. The penny has dropped with him. He always had the ability, now he’s performing consistently. Hence, he’s getting picked on the right hand side. The manager is trying Tony v at RB for a reason. Not just injuries.
@Parry: Nani was being played down the left all the time because we didn’t have any other options there before signing Young what with Giggsy playing through the middle now and Park being used ‘sparingly’. When Valencia got injured last year Nani really showed what he was about IMO and without a shadow of a doubt RW is his best position, I actually think that Nani is probably 20% less effective down the left.
I like Valencia, always have done, but he is a throwback to the old winger days being powerful and direct, whereas Nani has all the tricks and skills. I think we look a lot more balanced and threatening with Young down the left (who has been a revelation to me BTW) and Nani down the right, its a shame that Valencia is so one footed because he could cover either wing but you will only really ever see him down the right.
In answer to your question I don’t think Valencia has gone backwards, its just that Nani is a better player and as Willie said he’s in red hot form at the moment, there’s no disgrace in that because Nani will become a world beater, that I’m sure of.
Opinions Opinions You have yours I mine,he couldn’t prove us wrong yet and I don’t expect any change this year and I take into consideration he was for a time in Valencia’s absences last year in hot form.and in Valencia’s absence to date this year the same,lets wait and see how it pans out.We may soon find out about shit talk.
Believe me, I know the difference!
After visiting a knocking shop a man notices green lumps on his willy
he goes to the doctor to find whats wrong
Doc says you’ve heard of cauliflower ear
Yes he say’s
Well you’ve got brothel sprouts.
Willie – Pointless arguing mate. This is the bloke that wanted Craig Gordon , told blatant fucking lies about me then didnt even have the decency to apologise. I don’t like his tone, I really don’t. I gave him my condolonces for losing his daughter. Not so much as a fucking thanks just some snide comment. Oh and there there was this Sunderland in the know bullshit that was attributed to Kings and I and neither of us had any fucking idea what he was on about. Fuck it mate.
How hasn’t Nani got the mental capacity? He gets his head down and season on season has improved. As I say I love Tony Valencia but he isn’t in the same league as Nani.
What — Hello mate. Spot on pal. A mate and me were on about it last night. Give him the number 7 when Micky goes. But then I don’t think Nani would be that bothered. He is Europes best winger and for those who disagree name someone better at present.
badger – Good post pal.
Valencia is a great defence 4 now but would love valencia 2 play in the milfeilder with Cleverly plus what will the score be 4 the liverpool game Plus my line out 4 the liverpool game is De Gea, Valencia,Jones,Smalling,Evra,Nani,Fletcher,Cleverley,Hernandez,Rooney, Sub will be; Lindeerd, Rio,Carrick,Park,berbatov. Anyone agree or Disagee
King Eric’
When I stupidly gave out circumstances regarding my daughter it was in response to a post regarding smoking it was not divulged for sympathy as I said at the time so don’t use it to massage your stupid ego with real or imagined hurt you obnoxious cunt.I might add I am more than a little tired of you and a small group trying to force your views on me because you can’t give a reasoned answer to the posts I made on this page.And there are six people know what I was referring to I am one,two and three are you and the person you are chit chatting to so go and take a running fuck to yourself.ps.don’t bother to respond cause I wont ta ta twat.
Cheers King Eric, I have the odd lucid moment…
parryheid – .Me an obnoxious cunt? Thats rich coming from a man who while I was in Dubai told a total lie and didnt have the decency to apologise even when written evidence was brought up to prove you lied. I chose to forget it then thought a gesture of goodwill toward your daughter was a decent thing to do. Not even a thanks. So you my friend can go fuck yourself you rude cunt.
Trying to force our opinions on you? Oh that old chestnut. Grow up. I seem to recall you saying you were in your forties which is a surprise to me as your manners are akin to a 5 year old.
Oh and how is saying “sorry to hear of your loss” massaging my ego? Fucking rude bastard.