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Message from group behind the plane

Members of the Red Issue forum who were behind today’s fly over plane have released a statement to explain the reasons behind the banner:

Today’s protest was never just about a few results in isolation, nor should today’s result leave supporters with any illusions. The supporters who backed the protest in several polls today have seen the value of the move.

That some supporters have chosen to get carried away about a result that was, until recently, the very definition of ‘run-of-the-mill’ demonstrates how successfully standards have been lowered since last summer.

The flypast was a statement of protest about the overall trajectory of the club under a manager who has no clear plan, no powers of motivation and who projects a sense that this job is simply too big for him in every utterance, whether in comments regarding the opposition, or in his reported comments today regarding the quality of the playing squad.

We would remind him that this squad are the current Premier League champions.

Having spent almost £70m on two new players, David Moyes has taken the club to seventh position currently, breaking several unwanted records in the process.

While we all expected a period of adjustment, claims that a such a significant drop off was inevitable or acceptable following the departure of Sir Alex Ferguson ring hollow when we see the improvements made by those of our immediate competitors that changed their manager last summer, including Moyes’s former club, Everton.

Even accepting the fact that several players will need to be replaced in the near future, we do not believe that David Moyes is the person capable of rebuilding the team to the necessary standard.

There are better, more progressive, managers out there. Time for a proper alternative.

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. Fletch™ says:


  2. warrored says:

    Having read all the comments, I think you should read then re-read and then digest the comments by Dwayne O Linn….. I think he’s called.

    He’s bang on.

  3. Tommy says:


    “Cantana dragged United to a title” Hardly just Eric tho was it, I remember the game that season against Newcastle and it was big Peter who made save after save and then Eric popped up with the winner, No team wins any title after being carried by 1 player, its a team game, you win titles as a team.


    I have convos with people on twitter, proper reds mate not just ones who pop up to say moyes out, cant have a convo with those lot, but your one of the good posters on RoM, I find a lot of these blogs to be cringeworthy mate, but I do like the blogs scott posts mate, I will just have to bite my tongue haha

  4. NBI Red 21 says:

    This plane protest has been blown massively out of proportion , people have no sense of humour and no respect for others right to speak their mind, the organisers NEVER claimed to speak for all fans, they made it clear that they were doing it as a significant group of fans, which is fully correct. They are a significant group of match goers. They achieved exactly what they intended, made it loud and clear a significant number of fans want Moyes out and the Chosen One banner down. The people who purported to speak for all fans were the SEF group behind the Chosen One banner which gives the impression all fans support Moyes. The people who forced a plan protest are the Glazers by banning non-pre-approved fan banners in OT.

    It is funny that fans are more upset over a simple little plane protest than the absolute pathetic state of our Club on the pitch and the humiliating comments Moyes makes. No sense of proportion. The plane protest was one day. The unwanted failings and records are history and our present. What is it more important to worry about, the future of the Club or the way some fans chose to protest. That protest is their business.

  5. NBI Red 21 says:

    SAF credits Cantona as being the one player who carried the team or something similar in autobiography I believe but yes ofcourse others contributed. But my point is exactly that RVP alone did not win United the title and unlike Cantona era, we were winners before he came.

  6. Fletch™ says:

    Wayne, Cheers mate.
    you asked a question about points from loosing positions last year.

    My notes have 28. But not sure that is accurate. It was a load mind.

    Right lads. Well past any hour of decency for folks so I am off.

    Bring on Bayern. Hope Buttner ends that twit Robben. That would be him in United lore for good!

    Red Dreams.

  7. NBI Red 21 says:

    Tommy – in your so called last post or so you said you had changed your mind about Moyes in the City game week – please elaborate. Now you come on here and act like you are a long suffering pro Moyes fan and everyone critical of Moyes or protesting against him is a fake fan or an idiot or completely unrepresentative of match going fans. You say you will quit the blog and don’t (which is fine by me but why make such a scene then?), so you say you changed your mind on Moyes and yet you complain about people who made up their mind on Moyes before you as they saw it earlier. You also have a tendency to write as though you represent all match going fans views, which you don’t at all. So why don’t you explain exactly how you changed your mind on Moyes.

  8. Tommy says:


    Ive stated many times that the stetford end flags were totally wrong not to consult me and other ST holders on the chosen one banner, They claimed to have conducted a poll on twitter which is a joke, a poll on twitter to determine whether a flag goes up in the stretty, No I would of voted no, not just because its moyes if it was pep or mourinho that walked through the door, they should never have a banner up either, you earn the right to go up in the stretty not just get put up, some legends of United are not up in a banner and neither should moyes, however once it is up, it shouldnt come down until the summer especially as people have paid £500 or so for it to be put up and it would look terrible on the club to just rip it down before the close season, No one can take a joke? It was as funny as toothache, as soon as it arrived their was instant boos and then everyone forgot it was even their and concentrated on the game, waste of £840quid, could of paid my ST next year and bought all my cup games and still had some change

  9. Mirainashe says:

    Beyond personal insults,what can the people supporting Moyes actually say ABOUT Moyes,that gives solid evidence that he is the man Manchester United need? Honestly. Also you could specify what your version of “need” is. I’m not ashamed to be called a Moyes Out fanatic. In fact,I’m extremely desperate to see Moyes leave the club yesterday. I’m not anti-Moyes because i thoroughly hate MUFC. It’s the exact opposite reason. I have always placed the club above Ferguson,the Glazers or Rooney or anyone else. In fact,my view has always been that the most important people associated with United are the supporters worldwide. Not just 75000 in attendance at OT but over half a billion Manchester United fans around the globe. Why do I believe the fans are the most important? Simple. Money. The fans are the only people associated with the club that are not paid to do so. So that to me demands the utmost respect. The Glazers are here for the money. The players also have a financial motivation as do ALL the managers and coaches. Even in his directorial capacity,Ferguson is being remunerated. He is already a millionaire and he could simply have been doing it for free because he loves the club but he is paid serious money still. Moyes had his wages doubled and had to betray his old club who stuck by him when the Everton fans had been calling for his head since 2010 (when the original #MoyesOut campaign was initiated). So don’t tell me Moyes is not here for the money and the glory and the freakin success.

    So where are all these apparent benevolent and generous millionaires and billionaires getting all this crazy money from? I don’t know. Just the bloody fans who don’t get paid jack shit by anyone for their unwavering and fanatical support. We don’t even demand that anyone pay us. We buy the new jersey no matter how hideous it looks. We form freakin blogs and join the club’s credit card partners and other sponsors just because we are United to the core. A lot of kids have been denied the latest Play Station or XBox freakin One because their United fan dad is saving money for United season tickets for the whole family. United the religion they say. So you think I’m not gonna be half assed when the same millionaires just come out and pick a mediocre manager whose sole ability is to open his mouth and transmit nightmare vocals and syllables. I’m MUFC to the freakin bone. I’m not a Moyes fanatic. Manchester first. Half a billion people is not a freakin joke. If United go to New York tomorrow they will fill the stadiums there. Same when they visit Taipei,Cape Town,Dubai,Perth or Shanghai. What kind of appointment was David Moyes then? Are you telling me they looked around the world and said “this is the biggest,most important sports entity on this planet,therefore we need the very best most suited candidate to move this club forward” and lo and behold that search ended with Moyes? Get real.

    If you see people demanding Moyes Out,they have their perfectly valid,pro-United reasons for doing so. Have some respect with your punk ass ignorant self. If you are a Moyes In person, I can only respect you when you bring your PRO-UNITED reasons for supporting him. When you bring to the table evidence that David Moyes is the right calibre for leading United to the very top of world football. I’m not even talking about EPL. Don’t just come with “don’t just blame Moyes for the decline”. Give me a freakin reason why we ought to stick with him based on his skills and abilities. Don’t just be known for insulting others. Bring points to the table. Empty insults is all I see from the DM camp. The MO army always brings hard evidence. Stone cold facts. tangible stats and analysis. Bring your A Game Moyes Boys or go home

  10. Tommy says:


    I dont think hes necccerily the right man for the job, but I wont back no cheap publicity stunt, I know some who were against Moyes from the start think todays plane banner was embarressing and they are more moyes out than I am, the reason the faans rallied were because they come accross with these statements like they are speeking on behalf of all the fans, and it did backfired, city was the first game with not one moyes chant but that changed today, their was more moyes chants heard today than they have been for weeks, and top and bottom of it is everytime I step foot through the turnstyles I am their to support Manchester United, I dont care what players are playing, who the manager is and who the owner is when I step through those turnstyles, I support Manchester United, Im not going to waste my time and energy booing when I am at the game, negative energy is not my style, If these people want to vent their spleen do a protest march before the game, or bring in a banner to the stadium, show their faces instead of being a coward and hiding behind a banner in the sky

  11. Mirainashe says:

    NBI Red 21

    Mad freakin respect and good night for now

  12. NBI Red 21 says:

    Tommy – you should really read the statements of the fans behind the plane protest, they never said they represent all United fans and they said that VERY clearly. The press also made clear it was a section of fans from Red Issue. And if fans at OT who want Moyes out sing for him to spite other fans who are speaking their mind in a way they don’t like then they are hypocrites and that is the real tragedy, zero integrity and completely childish behaviour to support Moyes to spite other peoples protest. This has all been blown massively out of proportion.

    Some one else’s protest is nobody else’s business. They are paying fans they can say what they like. If a fan hates Moyes and tattoos it on his forehead, a plane, a bird, what business is it of any other fan? It is a personal statement and the Red Issue guys made it clear this was their group and the press reported it the same way as a section of United fans. I don’t understand how you can possibly think they misled people to think their view was that of all fans? It is a complete shame that you appear to indicate fans who no longer support Moyes did so to spite these people protesting, i.e. they are hypocrites with no integrity.

  13. NBI Red 21 says:

    Night Mirainashe. Lets see what tomorrow brings!

  14. Dwayne O Linn says:


    Firstly 3 good articles mate. My point on the first one is yes we can discuss fluid movement and movement as one, but these sides are almost unique perhaps coming along once every generation if we are lucky. One of the main factors is that such a setup requires the correct type of player all playing at the peak of their ability, hence why the great teams do not last for more than say 3 seasons, players get
    older, new players arnt quiet as good, opposition teams improve. The article on fergies fluid tactics highlight good attacking play but fail to highlight glaring defensive deficiencies in both those games, a narrow 4-3 victory against reading and a narrow 3-2 win against Chelsea, both defensively shocking as I recall. Perhaps the opposition last season failed to recognise fully micheal carricks effectiveness, perhaps this season they more clued in to him as he is now the only midfielder that can deliver a long pass, so more attention is paid to him. Yes we can point to moyes having a more cautious approach, but united no longer have the defensive stability of 08/09 that enables a more gung ho approach. What I have noticed recently with moyes’ teams is that they are becoming effective in nullifying the lesser teams while still scoring 3+ goals a game. We look back to last season they were high scoring affairs with united prevailing with sheer force of will, there is only so long you can drink at this well before you fall in I’m afraid. Yes against the bigger sides we have been poor, as it has been well documented, but next season I fully expect a turn around coupled with this more successful method of dispatching the lesser teams will build confidence in the approach being adopted, and confidence has been shaken badly due to fergies retirement. we only have to look back to when he last announced his retirement the team had their 2nd worst finish in the premier league.the steps are small at the minute but with correct type of players recruited united will be a major force again in the not to distant future.

  15. Tommy says:


    I dont see it as hypicritical at all, its defending out own when people are trying to publicly humilate someone, You can say its the equiveland of a parent having a child who is miss behaving, and people are slagging the child off, what do you do? You defend the child in public, same situation here, we are not a club who boo our own genrally and I would hate us too go down that route, we are not chelsea or blackburn who try to bully a manager out, as someone pointed out to me the other day “He will dig his own grave” No need for these type of stunts in my opinion

  16. scoreboard paddock says:

    Tell you what else is nonsense – the injuries excuse – much as I love and miss Scholesy the injury thing doesn’t really hold up ,yeah we’ve had key injuries – but Arsenal have stayed top 3/4 all season long . They are in the FA Cup semi final with a far worse key player injury crisis for far longer

  17. NBI Red 21 says:

    Tommy – What is happening at OT is (1) suppression of fans right to protest using their own personal banners, (2) actions taken without consent (e.g. SEF) and (3) McCarthyism is now rife, plain and simple (making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or betrayal against someone without proper regard for evidence).

    Fans who protest the decisions of power, whether it’s in a manner others like or not, are subject to horrible abuse and complete hypocrisy as well as accusations they are plastic, disruptive and betraying the Club and its values.

    Regard the evidence. They have no way to put up a banner in OT. And no way to bring down a banner in OT that does not represent them. They also have no other way to publicly contradict Moyes claim all United fans back him and to communicate this in a way the Club has to listen to and that contradicts other statements in the press. As a tactic to make their view clear it worked 100%, regardless of what anyone else thinks or whether anyone else agrees with it. They got their point across well. They were entitled to do so.

    If I was to be serious for a minute, which I rarely am, and apply my mind, this element of gestapo oppression of free speech and McCarthyism at OT and amongst fans is what I find really disturbing. The plane protest is a nothing to get worked up about but the adverse reaction to it by a section of fans indicates that United’s fanbase consider MCCarthyism to be a legitimate form of the identity of the Club.

  18. Tommy says:


    Ive already stated that the chosen one banner was not correct and should never have went up in the stretty end, but once its up I dont think it should be ripped off until the end of the season, I do believe the SEF thought about taking it down, if it was too be removed during the season I think it would have a knock on effect on the team and maybe cause divisions in the support, plus it would cause unwanted press covarage, better to leave it alone and take it down quietly in the summer, I really dont know 1 fan that wanted the banner, same goes for this plane banner, I personally dont know 1 fan that wanted that either, I know some on twitter but not personally

  19. The_red_devils says:

    moyes tactics is based around ‘covering space’ which don’t suit the players we have. A manager job is to play through his team’s strength, which he is not doing. Unless he adapts and changes his tactics and mentality, i don’t see us getting back to the top(with him) no matter how many players he buys.

  20. NBI Red 21 says:

    @ Tommy – “I dont see it as hypicritical at all, its defending out own when people are trying to publicly humilate someone.”

    The players who won us titles who Moyes consistently undermines and puts down in the press are our own.

    The fans who buy tickets and page wages are our own. They can say what they like, that what we call defending our own.

    The Club, its ethos, survivial and traditions are our own. These are what we should defend as our own.

    Moyes is not our own. He is a new manager of United, he has no past association of the Club and he has not earned the right to be one of us the way SAF has and Busby has.

    Moyes, Round and Lumsden are not part of United, they sit in seats uncomfortably while we consider whether they belong here, for even for the most generous fan the jury is out, so no they are definitely not our own.

    And telling a manager you do not agree with his selection and want him gone is par for course in football, it is not a form of public humiliation, it is a fact stated factually and freely. That it humiliates does not make it less true or less merited.

    The public humiliation of United in the press and by fans from other Clubs comes directly from Moyes, our results under him and his statements, so if we are talking about who has publicly humiliated United, so far only one person – David Moyes. He is the running joke of the world, other fans want him to be our manager forever and United is tied to him like a rock.

    Let us put things in perspective. Humiliation is our complete loss of status and disastrous exit from the footballing elite and the hapless capitulation and statements of our manager, I have already been taunted by City fans about how United now want to be like them, and how we are out of the races. No one has taunted me about the plane. They are just glad it did not get rid of Moyes.

  21. Dwayne O Linn says:

    NBI red
    To suggest your freedom to chant and say what you want at old Trafford has been denied is completely crazy my friend. By all means tell me what is stopping you booing moyes at old Trafford? Are you being gagged at the gate? you try to come across as an intelligent person but you do look like a fool with comments like the above in r.e the mc carthy witch hunts. All I can determine from your postings is that you have adopted the anti moyes approach, realised you are in the small minority, and you continue to try to drum up support for your failing cause by resorting to posting comments that are increasing in bizzarness everyday. I would say you have some kind of insecurity disorder also.

  22. Tommy says:


    Ive also never seen a case where the booing of a manager or a player at any club is going to benefit the team. Whats the point in paying your hard earned money to boo? It dont make sense, I choose to support the team every game, before and after I can have my misgivings but during it wont help, No one has told me one reason whats good about this banner, If they think the glazers will sack on the base of a banner especially when it backfired are deluded, If he is too go it will be the boards decision and will have nothing to do with a publicity stunt

  23. NBI Red 21 says:

    @ Tommy – I actually think if the Chosen One banner came down it would have zero effect except a day or twos news in the press. And who cares, its a banner. It will not cause Moyes to be sacked. Moyes has already said he does not give a shit about the banner and the players will register it for a second and get on with the next game; they will privately have already made up their mind about Moyes and it won’t affect them one way or another. Again, we fans blow these things out of proportion.

    I don’t care if the banner comes down or not but I am glad the plane protest made it clear it is not supported by all fans. SEF if they are taking it down should stop playing dramatically to the media like they are and milking their 15 minutes by going on radio and TV, they should just take it down and say “In light of the Manager stating he would rather earn the banner and the stated opposition from some fans to the banner, we have decided to take the banner down for the time being. Removing the banner is not a statement from SEF on Moyes suitability or lack thereof to be manager of Manchester United.”

  24. Dwayne O Linn says:

    @ warrored

    Thanks mate, I don’t think there is enough rational thought being displayed these days.

    @ The Red Devils

    I have to disagree with you, it is the job of a manager to imprint his style on the team. moyes will be moving away from the ferguson style and as the team evolves he will evolve with it. To suggest he will remain ‘to covering space’ is naive,

  25. NBI Red 21 says:

    @ Tommy – McCarthyism is the suppression of legitimate criticism by accusing people of disloyalty and being disruptive. You may not like booing, I don’t like some of the chants either, I once sat next to a fan with my 10 year old cousin and he was shouting that Wenger was a paedophile the whole match even though I glared at him and pointed to the kids – but once you get into the territory of suppressing dissent and criticism and judging how people can criticise you are in an ugly place.

    As for booing, I don’t see that it hurt Becks, Nev or Ronnie. I don’t see that fans against him for a while deterred SAF or Benitez at Chelsea. Players and managers are made of very hard stuff and live in a different world or they never make it. Booing and protest are the right of fans as much as clapping and cheering. This is their entertainment, not a cult, Obviously, there are legal limits, stoning Moyes would be a crime, but legal legitimate protest should never ever be suppressed no matter how unpalatable any of us find it. Boos galvanise much more than they demoralise players from what I have seen. It gives the millionaires something to prove.

  26. Tommy says:


    Becks, Ronaldo and Nevilles boos were from other fans, that motivates players, if your getting booed by your own thats the opposite effect, it demoralises the players, people know everyones not pro moyes thsts obvious every time I listen to a football phone in theirs disgruntled fans, moyes is not a stupid man no matter what you think, he will know that some fans are very unhappy, hes asked question about the fans all the time, hes not gonna come out and say a load want him out hes going to mention those that have said kind things to him to put out a possitive spin on things, all managers do it, 90% of what people in football say is lies and managers are the worst for it and thats every single one not just the one we have

  27. Tommy says:


    Lets be honest we are all guilty of defending our team to others, How many times have I been down the pub and criticised everyone at some point only for a city fan to come over and join in the converstation only for me to get very defensive and defend everyone and everything, even the indifensible I defend, thats what most football, Thats what most football fans do, defend their own in public and criticise in private

  28. The_red_devils says:

    I didn’t say he will stick with covering space forever. What i m saying is he has been using that tactic all season when its clear that it doesn’t suit us. Any one who wants to be manager of club like united should have ability to adapt to surrounding.
    You talk about moyes imprinting his style but what is that style?
    Season is about to finish but still he has shown any philosophy, direction and vision, now don’t tell me you need 11 world class players for that.

  29. NBI Red 21 says:

    @ Tommy – see how messy it gets. My view is let those who honestly want to cheer Moyes cheer him, wear Moyes t-shirts, fly a plane declaring your love, by the same token, let those who honestly want him out do what they need to do. It is nothing for fans to get worked up about. It does not effect what any of us think or what we do. If Moyes is booed or a plane flies overhead protesting does it affect anything on the pitch – on today’s evidence nothing. If we cheer does the team play better? Not from what we have seen all season. All fans boo and protest. Its football. Let them. It may lift or depress the manager or players but hey there is a reason for it and they are paid to play rain or shine, they get the glory, they should also take the pain. There are two sides of the same coin in life. If Moyes has any metal, he will accept he has not won fans over and will do what needs to be done to improve United, i.e. get a coach from the 20th century in, open his mind to learning about different ways of playing from experienced coaches.

  30. NBI Red 21 says:

    Well I hear what you say Tommy but I would not defend Moyes, he has not earned it, I defend SAF and Keano even when people raise some of their suspect behaviour. I even once defended Tevez! Because despite the way he left I think he gave alot to United and helped us. The only thing that will change anything is better performances and results. I don’t care what any fans from other Clubs think, I want to do what is best for United and for me we need a better manager and better coaches. I want my view to be heard by the powers that be so I will shout it when I am next at a match, not because I hate Moyes but because I love United. And as Nanak said “when you can do nothing else to protest an injustice, raise your voice.”

    Right now we are in the unique position that as fans of United we get more coverage than anyone else. If teh Club does not recover its form no one will be interested in what United fans say or do. When was the last time you heard about former league winners Balackburn or Leeds fans? Did anyone even know about the above mentioned 2010 Moyes Out protest by Everton fans. We feel we are special now, all eyes on us. If United continues to fall, so will all eyes from us.

  31. Dwayne O Linn says:

    @the Red Devils
    That is why there will changes in the the playing staff over the summer, he will bring in those that will fit the system. It’s very clear that he moving towards a 4-2-3-1 so I don’t know why people keep saying there is no style or system or tactics. the style will be less go for the jugular while conceding goals and towards a more stable defensive unit. our Defense has been a disappointment this season hence the replacements that will be acquired in the summer. As with Liverpool last season Rodgers didnt get it right straight away but now we see the fruit of his labour. It will be the same with united next year, I believe that. It would be ludacris to think the players would immediately switch to this new system without any problems, it’s the same for any major change in life, it will take a period of adjustment, more for some less for others, such is the nature of life. It may evolve from a 4-2-3-1 into something else as it progresses, who are we to know what they are doing behind the scenes?
    As for people constantly asking for a vison, it’s a buzz word created by mourinho or Rodgers, what do we want? A booklet telling the world of future signings, our tactics our training methods? Show me martinos vision for barca, mourinhos for Chelsea, Arsene wengers vision, because it seems everyone has a vison except moyesy, so I want people to show me what a vision is.

  32. The_red_devils says:

    A philosophy is shown on the field when playing, you don’t need a booklet to tell everyone. Mourinho prefers defensive stability, hitting on counter attack, pep tiki taka, wenger short passing possession game, martino using same old tiki taka at barca.
    You talk about next season, how about this season? A mamager of manchester united should have ability to adapt to surrounding, not want whole surrounding adapt to you. That is what seperates great managers and average ones.
    Getting behind a manager is ok but to not see any fault in manager and start blaming quality of squad, injuries and bad luck is NOT ok. Credit should be given when its due and criticize when its due.
    To give poor excuses for manager’s failure is insane.
    Moyes may come good one day, no one knows. But Supporting a club or manager doesn’t mean you can’t criticize him. But for them he is never wrong.
    I also don’t like the idea of attacking moyes on personal level as i say credit and criticizm should both be fair. But what annoys me is when i see people giving shit excuses. Like it or not, the fact is moyes hasn’t been good enough(as of yet). Now the question is will he come good? only time will tell.

  33. Dwayne O Linn says:

    @ Red Devils
    I am not going to get bogged down like the rest of this blog and get involved in a slagging match with you as you seem like reasonable fellow, and you use other sources of information to back up your arguements which is commendable. i do agree mistakes have been made, but we all make them, and some criticism has been justified. Other parties have made errors but im not going into that. Some Players havnt exactly covered themselves in glory either. But I think we can agree on, that more time is needed and i think the vision (I hate that word) will become clearer. I’m out, laters.

  34. WeAreUnitedd says:

    @dwayne and red devils

    great great dbate, I have enjoyed it. I myself am more with RedDevils and worried like him, I get your points Dwayne but you have to grasp something

    The covering space tactics might work and evolve with new players, but those tactics are from stoneage, it will never work against the big guns as Moyesies Everton has shown us and also our ManUtd.

    Those tactics are a flat attack in front, which meanss no players will come and play from the middle, although lucky us we have players that don’t like to just hang up front so Moyes HAS to adapt to our players and realise that these players are different calibre of players.

    Thisi is where he went wrong, he thought ok, SAF gone, these players are nothing and I need more ro “rebuild”, before us explainign about the vision, can you tell me what does “rebuilding” mean?

    how come in the last 7 years we did not need rebuilding, we needed tweaking yes, new players yes, but rebuilding? You know why we need rebuilding? because Moyes made us rebuild, and now we realise that suddenly it’s nt about rebuilding, because our players are top-class, and Moyes has been an utter disgrace this season

    I am not bashing the manager, but the results and style of play. Like RedDevils said and I have myself also touched the subject, every team have their football philosophy that can bring them stability and trophies, we also had, the wingplay with counter, but now it’s cross cross cross, never pass it from the middle.

    When we do play another style than covering space, Kagawa suddenly assists 2 goals

    THE WORRYING thing is that, even if our new players adapt into Moyes’s tactics, those covering tactics are so bad that it won’t get us nowhere, UNLESS Moyes evolves his football with his players, that is when I BELIEVE in Moyes again.

    IF we do play like we played against WestHam also against the big guns, then I will eat my words, if not then I truly believe he is not the man. For me if we play with the will we had against Olympiakos and with the passing game we had against WestHam which for me is the only game where we played with GREAT tactics, then I believe, until then, I am slowly dropping my faith for him

    PS. I demand as a supporter one more factor which would help his case, win all remaining 6 games in style OR win the CL, to get my trust 100% back


  35. iamMatty says:

    All i see is in this thread is
    (SectionA) tangible reasons/evidences/facts that moyes is not the right man
    (SectionB) excuses/excuses/and more excuses!!!
    The fact that the pro-moyes camp cant even pull out any facts or evidence to back moyes with, is more depressing than his post-match interviews actually.
    Am just tired, mentally drained and not caring as much as i should.
    If anything happens to my united i hope ur consciences eat you all up for the duration of your lives, be comfy in the knowledge that you could have done something and you didnt.

  36. Dwayne O Linn says:

    I get your points and can understand where your worries are coming from.

    Unfortunately nearly all fans will agree that the lack of squad investment has only now come home to roost. Quality players have been replaced by lessor players or indeed not replaced at all. The fact we claim to be one if the biggest and best clubs in the world, yet I always ask how many of our first 11 would get in the big Spainish sides team or bayern first team? They are the best but we at some way off the pace in that regard. I can’t agree that this team doesn’t need a major overhauls.
    Without sounding blunt, I gave my opinions already on what way I think united will develop tactically, of course confidence and moral have taken a big hit this year and that could be factored in to why some performances have been terrible.

  37. iamMatty says:

    @dwayne linn
    Sir if we now have to spend 200million to compete, then what seperates us from city and the rest of the petrol clubs?

  38. George Best says:

    That banner was embarrassing!! This is Manchester United; been dominating for 21 years – and going through a tough period, no doubt, however, Moyes replaces SIR ALEX FERGUSON, i.e., GOD. Give hm time. A flying banner……., embarrassing indeed. The morons who did it should have donated that money to Fletcher’s charity. Suprised the idiots managed to spell the banner correctly.

  39. Dwayne O Linn says:

    @ Iammatty

    Well it is our own money hard earned money. we are one of the biggest earning clubs in the world, our success and global name enable us to generate more money that Chelsea or city could without the help of their sugar daddies, so that is what seperates us. All the top clubs have to spend money now to stay competitive, it’s a miracle united have survived this long at the top without spending big

  40. Martin Thomas says:

    The RI forum lads are entitled to their views (as they are lifelong reds): and the only reason they hired an aircraft is because the stewards (Glazer’s Nazi goons) would not allow any type of banner or protest inside the ground. Anyone remember the Burnley game at OT? Just one basic ‘Glazer Out!’ banner, and the stewards acted like that big white bubble thing from ‘The Prisoner’. If we didn’t have security who act like jumped up fascists there would have been no need for a flying banner.

    Some may think that the fly by protest was embarrassing… But it was/is nowhere near as embarrassing as those bloodsucking American mutants who now own our club, or the orange jacketed fascist monkeys they employ as security, or how supporters are not allowed to an opinion or bring a flag or banner into their own ground… We have far bigger and uglier things tainting and embarrassing Manchester United Football Club than a bunch of fans and an aeroplane…

    And if the Glazers spend 200 million on players this summer, then I am shagging Katy Perry tonight…

  41. LoneStarRed7 says:

    I am in agreement with the RI group. Moyes is not the man for the job.

  42. Martin Thomas says:

    It doesn’t matter who we have as manager really… Because whether it is Moyes, Ferguson, or Santa Claus we will never be able to compete with the likes of City and Chelsea for top players: as long as those Glazer parasites are in charge and their debts continue to cripple us in the transfer market. United were interested in both Aguero and David Silva (Aguero even briefly having his own player profile on the official MUFC website!). Those tightarsed yanks would not pay up (all Fergie’s “No value” excuses! He got that oaf, Bebe, instead!) and both went across the road… No value? Silva (as a player) is worth all our midfielders put together. In today’s game, you get what you pay for (and there will not be another Class of 92 to save our arses!)…. But as long as long as those carpetbagging Florida bastards are here, we won’t. And any manager: Moyes or anybody else, will have to go along with the Glazer party line… Just like Fergie did since they infested our beloved club in 2005…

  43. Martin Thomas says:

    And Woodward is a clown… He fucked up with Fabregas, and although some will point to the Mata deal, Mourinho coulldn’t wait to get shut of him for whatever reason… Jose practically giftwrapped him for sale. That is not a dig at Mata as a guy or a player (I like him). But it had nothing to do with Woodward or any business skills…

    Woodward also told an elderly gentleman and longstanding matchgoing red at OT to “Fuck off!” when the supporter asked Woodward to sort things out… And this man is in charge of United’s business front?!

  44. aashish thapa says:

    moyes is just wrong,the day he signed fellaini I knew he is clueless and I don’t think mata will be that good for much of money wasted and still playing bad football.once it gets too late it will be hard to climb up again.premier league is getting more and more competitive.look to Liverpool for wont take long till we realize it has been 20 yrs and no trophies come to old Trafford.


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