Having experimented with 4-4-2 midfield diamond tactic in a number of matches this season, Sir Alex put the formation to one side following the Champions’ League group phase and then it reappeared for the FA Cup game at West Ham. Within the diamond he also tinkered with personnel; take Rafael against the Hammers where he trialled him as the inside midfield player on the right hand side. Rafael has played in midfield on at least one occasion before, in a home game against Arsenal a few years ago, but at that time the move was in response to an injury crisis. This time there was no crisis, rather a tactical choice. This suggests that Sir Alex is testing out different players to find an effective fit. Which piece fits the jigsaw? That is the question we ask in this article.
Tactics or players; what comes first? It could be either depending on the circumstances. For us the loss of Fletcher for the season has made this question more acute, ironically his return from injury earlier in the year coincided with the emergence of this tactic and Sir Alex has used Fletcher as the pivot more than any other player when using this shape.
Here we look at a 4-4-2 diamond and set out the strengths a player needs to play in a position, then we consider the United players that could be use in those positions. Firstly, Figure 1 defines the shape. The key positions are the four midfield players and the full-backs, for whilst the central defenders and strikers are important, the characteristics of those roles is not significantly different in this diamond shape from say a 4-4-2, a 4-4-1-1, or 4-2-3-1; these being United’s most commonly used formations.
Defensive Midfielder or Pivot.
We prefer to use the term Pivot as this player does more than just defend from midfield. It is a critical role for which a range of attacking and defensive qualities are required.
The player should:
• Have a good tactical sense.
• Be good at shielding the defence.
• Be good at tackling and intercepting.
• Be able to drop into and hold the defensive line; possessing good defensive qualities.
• Be able to control and direct play from a static deep position, so being a point of reference for the whole team.
• Be able to spot and accurately deliver long passes.
An example of such a player would be Serge Busquets, Etienne Capoue or David Luiz in recent weeks.
Inside Midfielders.
The diamond has two players of this type, typically one right sided and one left sided. These players should:
• Have a good physique, with good acceleration and stamina.
• Have good defensive strengths; good at tackling and intercepting, (they may often have to dovetail with the fullbacks).
• Have the ability to break into open spaces.
• Be able to change the tempo of the game.
• Be good at dump/rebound passes.
• Be good at crossing.
• Be good at shooting from range.
An example of a top class inside midfield player would be Luca Modric, Angel Di Maria or any number of Barcelona players.
Attacking Midfielder.
This player is critical to the teams play in the final third. The player should:
• Have excellent technical strengths, and be able to play in tight spaces.
• Be able to pass well over long and short distances.
• Have good tactical intelligence and the ability to direct the attacking play.
• Be good at dump/rebound passes.
• Be good at shooting from range.
• Be able to coordinate pressing in high positions.
An example of a great attacking midfield player to suit this role would be Mario Gotze or Mehut Ozil.
Full-backs.
Full-backs are very significant, as they provide width both in an attacking and defensive situation. The rest of the team is usually narrow. These players should:
• Have exceptional speed and stamina.
• Have strong defensive capabilities and a good positional sense, be good at tackling and good in the air.
• Be tactically flexible, with the ability to break quickly into open spaces.
• Have the ability to provide support to the attack and wide attacking thrust.
• Be able to pass well over long and short distances.
• Be good at crossing.
An example of full-backs to suit this system would be Dani Alves or Ashley Cole.
Choosing from the midfield squad.
Looking at the midfield areas and who has played where in the diamond to date, it is evident that Sir Alex has clear ideas about which players suits which role. So far nine players have been used in the diamond over six games, with only one of these players featuring in more than one role, Kagawa who has played as both an inside midfielder and an attacking midfielder.
Four players have featured only once in the diamond, and two of these appeared in the same game against West Ham in the FA Cup game. Sir Alex rarely plays an unchanged side, instead choosing to utilise his whole squad, so the use of Scholes and Rafael in the diamond in this particular game may be as much to do with his aim of keeping everyone fresh and not overplaying individuals as a view that these two are ideally suited to roles in this shape.
It would seem however that the core group from which Sir Alex has chosen for this tactic numbers five players, one of which, Fletcher, will now miss the rest of the season with injury. He has featured four times as the pivot, and his unavailability means that if Sir Alex uses this tactic going forward this position will be the subject of some careful consideration.
Players used in the diamond this season.
The Defensive Midfielder or Pivot role.
Fletcher has dominated this role and the emergence of the diamond tactic at United coincided directly with his return from long term illness. He has all the qualities identified above, but his strength is more as a defensive player. He does have good tactical sense, and importantly will diligently follow the game plan, but offensively he does not have the full range of passing and creative skills that others do, yet he contributes with headed goals. Unfortunately, others do not have his defensive strength.
The alternatives used to date as the pivot are Carrick and Scholes.
Carrick is having an excellent season and has the majority of the characteristics required for this role, yet lacks strong tackling ability. He is good at shielding and intercepting and Sir Alex clearly has a high regard for his defensive abilities, (used as a centre-back on several occasions when injury has hit), but generally he is a deep creative player rather than a defensive midfielder. One notable problem with Carrick in this role is his tendency to give away possession occasionally in deep positions, especially when he is pressed, (the Champions League Final in 2009 being an example). He has done this less over the last year, but it remains a concern.
Scholes tackling ability is legendary and it was interesting that he was used in the diamond recently at West Ham. Within the Club, Fletcher’s recurring illness will probably have been apparent by the time of this game and Sir Alex use of Scholes was probably a reflection of his desire to rest Carrick for future league games. The diamond at West Ham worked well for a period in the first half, but West Ham were able to outmuscle the diminutive four forming the diamond. Scholes as a pivot can’t really help out the defence when high balls are thrown in, and both West Ham’s goals came from high balls delivered into the box. The formation was changed in the second half as United snatched a draw.
Is there another alternative? Jones could be considered as defensively he would fit the bill, but lacks experience and perhaps the creativity of Carrick or Scholes. In time he might suit the role, but questions have been asked about his concentration levels.
Inside Midfielders.
Cleverley has been a feature as an inside midfielder, with Anderson and Kagawa also featuring in this role on more than one occasion. Generally, Cleverley and Anderson seem ideally suited for these positions as both have excellent stamina, and a natural tendency to run into spaces carrying the ball. Cleverley is perhaps a better crosser, (as seen at Spurs when he delivered a superb cross for Van Persie to convert), and more accurate with shots than Anderson, but when playing in these roles in tandem they seem a good pair.
Kagawa has also featured as an Inside Midfielder twice, and may have featured on other occasions but for injury. He seems to have most of the qualities required, but the biggest concern is his stamina; starting a number of games well, then fading in the second half, for example when he played in the diamond at Newcastle and in the recent games against Liverpool and Tottenham. The other concern is his defensive ability; at Newcastle he went too deep, and when pushed back he seems to lose his positional bearings.
Rafael; as a defender can bring a defensive ability to this role, whilst as an attacking fullback he has the ability to run into spaces and stretch people in wide positions. He has good stamina and like Carrick, is having an excellent season. His positional and general defensive discipline is much improved, although his shooting radar is perhaps not as keenly tuned as one would wish for a player in this role, is it any worse than Anderson’s however? In view of all this we should not then have been so surprised to see Rafael feature in the midfield at West Ham and he has featured as a midfield player on at a least one occasion before. We may see him here again.
Attacking Midfielder.
Like Fletcher at pivot, Rooney has dominated this position. Kagawa and Powell have played in this role on one occasion each, but Rooney featured here the first four times this tactic was used.
Rooney seems ideally suited to this role. He has all the qualities an attacking midfield players needs. He is a great all-rounder with both good attacking instincts, married to a reading of the game. His technique is excellent and he has the ability to direct the attacking play, dropping deep to collect the ball and then turning to feed those ahead and around him. His attacking vision is excellent. Prior to the arrival of Van Persie he was the team’s talisman, but freed from that burden he could and should excel. The one question mark is his ability to direct pressing in high positions. Forwards tend to concentrate on their own games rather than giving consideration to the direction of the wider team. Perhaps this is an area where he might improve.
Kagawa can play this role and again we might have seen more of him in this area but for injury. Kagawa is good at playing ‘between the lines’, has good close control and rarely gives the ball away. We would like to see more of him, whether in this position or elsewhere.
Nick Powell has played this role once in the game against Galatasaray. We have perhaps not seen enough of him yet to form a firm opinion, but from what we have seen he appears to have a good eye for goal, close control and composure which allows him to successfully operate in tight spaces. He is clearly a very promising player who may well develop into a valuable attacking midfield player.
Full-backs
Full-backs are important to the success of this tactic, because the rest of the formation tends to be fairly narrow. Full-backs at United are expected to contribute to the attack whatever formation we play. In theory then our full-backs should be ideally suited, but they perhaps need to show a greater degree of defensive discipline if we are using a midfield diamond.
The narrowness of the shape can leave the full-backs exposed and it is interesting to note that Sir Alex has chosen not to use the diamond when we have played against teams with width. This was most noticeable in the league game at Chelsea when many expected a diamond, but instead he chose a 4-2-3-1 shape which blitzed the home side in the first twenty minutes. For this reason we would not expect to see a diamond in the forthcoming Champions League tie against Real Madrid.
When we have used the diamond the full-backs have been fairly cautious. This has been most noticeable in the approach of Evra, a player noted for his forward surges. In the diamond he has tended to stay deeper. Evra and Rafael should, in many ways be ideally suited to the full-back role required. Both are, when disciplined, good defenders who can contribute going forward. Both have an eye for goal and can pass and run with the ball over long and short distances.
Buttner is raw. He has played as a full-back on a couple of occasions when we have used this shape, but he is head strong and whilst he does contribute going forward he needs to focus more on maintaining the defensive shape. He tends to dive in to tackles in high positions when he does not need to do so.
Smalling has played at full-back recently when a diamond was used at West Ham. On first thought one might think that he was a choice because Sir Alex required defensive discipline in this game, but early in the game he made a significant contribution to United’s attack, dovetailing with Rafael.
Jones is another player who has played at full-back on occasions, and like Smalling he too might have a good balance of defensive discipline and attacking intent. He is certainly a possibility.
But why use the diamond?
On first reflection it appeared that Sir Alex had turned to this new tactic because of the lack of a hard tackling midfield ball winner. The tactic certainly helps the team to keep the ball; reducing the number of times we need to win it back. In Europe last season we were just too profligate with possession and having given it away often then found it hard to regain; as evidenced against Athtletic Bilbao. With a diamond there is always a man available in central areas and its use in Champions League games this season has seen us successfully through the group phase. But the question remains why has Sir Alex chosen to experiment with this shape?
This might actually be as a consequence of the poor form of our wide players this year, but just as likely is a desire to control the centre of the pitch. This has long been a focus for Sir Alex, ever since our defeat against Real Madrid in 1999-2000 season. After that he developed a shape to control the centre of the park, but without an all action ball winner it is difficult to use the tactics developed thereafter. More bodies in the centre is an alternative approach.
So far the tactic has allowed that we control the centre of the pitch, but to do this we have sacrificed some attacking intent. It seems strange to say this when you reflect on the number of goals we have scored this year, but actually when we have used the diamond we haven’t scored as freely. A number of the goals scored in the games listed above have been scored after we have changed to an alternative shape. So currently the balance is not quite right.
Just as likely an explanation is that Sir Alex feels that the players we have currently suit this tactic and the analysis set out here appears to demonstrate this is the case. The balance might not be right yet but that could be as much to do with learning the tactic as anything else. Cleverley and Anderson are both mobile and forceful midfield runners, Rooney has qualities that ideally suited his deployment as an attacking midfielder; the question mark is the pivot position. With Fletcher out of action the Carrick appear the first choice for this role and his attacking creativity may result in a greater attacking emphasis. The balance of full-back play, attacking and defending is also a key factor. Criticism of the use of the diamond to date must be tempered, players are still finding their feet within this approach, occasionally players have forgotten the script in games, (the home game against Braga being a classic example), with Sir Alex experimenting there will be a few things tried that don’t work.
As the season progresses we would expect to see more of this tactic, although used sparingly and in select games. As ever we would expect Sir Alex to keep us guessing in the month ahead.
Man Utd News 24/7
Wow should give all the formation lads a boner
Using Luiz as an example pretty fucked up FSW threw him in that position as a experiment because he’s a shit defender,
Man Utd tattics must be having a laugh
diamond
only milan a few years ago succeed with this tactic
seedorf pirlo gattuso
and kaka up front with the 2 fw
no doubt that the players we have are more than capable to play this tactics but i prefer wing play with classical wingers
Haha Wayne! they will have a box of tissues ready!
ok not being funny here but Luka Modric scored 13 goals in 127 appearances for Spurs and 1 in 17 for Madrid hardly a shining example of a player being good at shooting from range any range
- We dont have the technical ability in the middle to pull off a diamond.
- Our squad has been built to use pace and width.
- Most importantly playing that diamond leaves our full backs two against one allowing an easy out ball for the opponents (see Galatasaray) and no resistance to crosses into our danger area.
superb piece, love seeing stuff like this on RoM. I have to say, I’ve been digging the diamond this season. i think Kagawa, and to a lesser extend – Cleverley – give us a different edge in midfield; to see the ball zipping about in tight spaces, supported by a bolder, more progressive in his passing Carrick, has been a revelation. it’s not as fluid as it could be but it’s early days and it’s just nice to see a Utd midfield that finally looks competitive, too often we look predictable with the flat midfield – feeding it wide early and hoping to get a cross in; with Kag, Rooney, Clev, and RVP (also Welbz) we have the ability to take it wide and come inside, pinging it about with angles through the middle. I quite like the idea of Kag and Rooney operating as floating attacking midfielders, with Kag possibly closer to RVP than Roo.
anyway, great article!
http://beautifullyred.co.uk/2013/01/29/amazing-giggs-skill-wins-gif-of-the-match-v-fulham-full-results/
sir rayan giggs
United ditched the diamond formation back in october
ryan giggs will win us the 20
@fitb
West Ham away in the cup was a diamond.
If the Armstrong drug doctor was to hypothetically (or hyperdermically) implicate Barca over the last few years, would their titles be stripped? Would we get 2 CLs? Would we want them?
@DreadedRed
Lol – can’t help but feel you’re getting a little ahead of yourself there.
Besides, Barca’s supremacy – in those games at least – was down to technical superiority rather than strength or stamina. You’ll probably find that we did a whole lot more running around than them, just chasing shadows!
Dreaded,Barcelona has said the doctor was never on their payroll,an article that was published in 2012 pretty vague,the article mentions Sequra but don’t understand what relevance he has in anything as far as i know was never one of Armstrong’s doctors
http://thelongballtactic.wordpress.com/2012/07/14/what-links-fc-barcelona-and-the-lance-armstrong-doping-case/
wayne- Ha I know pal. The lads obsessed with formations and tactics will love this. Didn’t even read it.
Daniel88 says:
- We dont have the technical ability in the middle to pull off a diamond.
- Our squad has been built to use pace and width.
- Most importantly playing that diamond leaves our full backs two against one allowing an easy out ball for the opponents (see Galatasaray) and no resistance to crosses into our danger area.”
“we don’t have the technical ability”. Yes, a well renowned club like united has players with no technique. Here he goes again, coming out with a load of rubbish.as usual. Got to wonder why anyone would pretend to be a manchester united fan. PATHETIC.
Kagawa, anderson, cleverley, rooney, van persie, nani, rafael e.t.c. All players adept technically and flexible enough to play the role. The problem with the diamond formation is it can back-fire due to the gaps out-wide, i think it’s a system that needs be used regularly for a few seasons before players get more familiar with it but it’s essentially a plan B, another option to united’s wing play method, you need a flexible style, especially in europe in which strenght centrally matters. I still think 4-5-1 is ideal, fergie,cracked the code for europe with that and united looked very efficient in europe.
I think diamond dosen’t suit man united we have great history with legendary wingers like best , giggs , beckham , ronaldo , and we just bought another winger wilf zaha possibly future star so I dont think it will be a permenant stay for united diamond bye bye
Da gea
Rafa vidic evans evra
carrick cleverly
Tony V rooney nani
Robin van persie
DDG
Rafa vida Johnny pat
Carrick
Ronaldo. Iniesta
Wazza
Messi
Rvp
Just 250 millions of 3bn
Very little
wayne for first comment (Y)
So Fergie charged by the FA.
Alleged breach of Rule E3 – ie ‘he implied the match official was motivated by bias’.
I don’t have the full quotes to hand, but I really cannot remember any such implication in his comments. He noted that one official had not given us a decision the whole game. Not once did he state that this was intentional, let alone ‘motivated by bias’. I’m tempted to say just take the hit to avoid dragging this out, but it looks like a bit of a stitch-up to me.
kanchelskis – I am reaching a little, that’s for sure. I can’t help but think they’re on something, whether or not it’s legal one can only wonder. Technical ability is obviously also affected by performance-enhancers. There’s little chance of anything coming to light.
wayne – I’m wondering if the good doctor makes house calls. Him or more likely another one like him.
What do you think guys whats the best first choice line up and formation for united ,, I think its 4-2-3-1 with wingers ,,what do you say should we stick to this or go forward for some change in tactics
“we don’t have the technical ability” Ha Mint. That’s why we run circles around teams like city and the Chavs and scare the wits outta Arsenal.
I’ll take our 442 morphing into a 4411
misting into a 4D11,
ebbing into a 4231 and then killing them off with the briefest
revisit of a 442.
They won’t know what hit em
@Red4ever
The only thing with a 4-2-3-1 is that, played with the best players in each position, Rooney wouldn’t be involved. Kagawa is the most natural fit at the centre of the 3, and RVP is the best fit up top…
Feck the diamond!!!!! It’s not the man utd way!!! We don’t have enough quality to play it anyway
Off topic: Andy Mitten says Wanyama to MUFC is not happening.
But you can read a nice old interview he did with the lad if you’re still dreaming about a summer move.
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/kenyas-victor-wanyama-has-a-taste-for-victory-with-celtic
I do recall reading an article/ comment about 16 months ago intimating that we and Barca used illegal stamina enhancing techniques common in cycling. Our very high number of injuries and Abidal’s liver troubles were cited as possible proof. The gist was that we were experimenting and Barca had a system in place.
SAF CHARGED BY FA
http://sports.mobile.msn.com/en-us/soccer/article.aspx?aid=1719150&acid=2&afid=220
Sources at Old Trafford indicate that SAF is quite feisty about this and has had to be calmed down prior to submitting his formal reply. Apparently an early draft of Ferguson’s reply included this passage : ” A blind squirrel would be better at finding his nuts than that linesman at doing his job.”
We will report as more information becomes available.
@ samuel and fletch
If you think we have the technical ability to pick short passes through the middle of the opposition like you need to with a diamond then you are simply more deluded than I thought.
Dont question my United credentials. I have been to United games home and away including in Europe. Have you ?.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb7oyE40MG0
capiche ?
Just have to agree to disagree then. As someone said on the other thread, prefer United football to ticka taka.
And yes I go to games, not as many as before but when I can. Next game is Reading in 2weeks with the whole Fletchling crew in tow. Hope to see ya all there!
“A blind squirrel would be better at finding his nuts than that linesman at doing his job.”
LoneStar….. that is mint! Ha
Is that texas “LoneStar”? or just a nice handle? Cheers and keep em comin!
samuel – Don’t even rise to Daniel anymore mate.
Fucking typical of Fergie to get charged, as usual by media pressure. Didn’t Redknapp and another rmanager who I forget get away with it the other week?
Daniel – Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa, Scholes ALL capable of picking short passes through the middle and do so.
@Eric
Carrick plays fifty yards from goal, Cleverley is eehhh, Kagawa cant stand up and Scholes is nearly forty and cant move.
Deluded much.
If they could. Why dont they ?. Interesting huh.
Don’t come out with the old nonesense of “i’ve gone home and away”, i don’t know who the fuck you are (and don’t really want to know, you could be a sad enough cunt who’s obsessed with united) to prove if you’ve actually been to games but for a supposed united fan, you have your head far up real madrid, bayern and others asses, more so than you acknowledging the quality within united ranks. Please don’t come out with “WE”, i’m not with your brigade of fans.
United don’t really play a short passing style, it’s all varied in style but of course there are quality players in this team capable and technically good enough to carry out a short passing style, the players within the team have quality. Perhaps around the continent, some big teams possess better players/more experience but to say united lack technique is beyond foolish.
Lads for a laugh check out some of the comments by bitters and dipper fans on this link. Priceless:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2269599/Manchester-Uniteds-incredible-list-sponsors-helping-3billion-super-club.html#comments
Daniel – You are deluded pal. So you are saying none of those players make short passes through the middle? Fucking idiot.
And what does Cleverley is eeeh mean? Clown. You aren’t a fan pal, you slag United at every opportunity despite us doing fucking well this season. Cunts like you make me fucking sick pal. And yes I DO go the games but what the fuck has that to do with anything anyway?
Carrick plays fifty yards from goal, Cleverley is eehhh, Kagawa cant stand up and Scholes is nearly forty and cant move.”
King Eric – i think this comment sums everything up. Oh dear.
@ Fletch
Texas my friend.
@ King Eric 20:31
Good piece. Regarding some of the comments…haters gonna hate.
As usual the FA pick Sir Alex to make a show about managers showing referees respect. Take on the biggest name to make it look like you’re doing your job. The systemic refereeing problem however is unaddressed. The merit of the criticism is none of the FA’s concern. And now they’re just desperate to go after United to show their neutrality. Meanwhile game after game we’re having to work against atleast one to two major decisions. Well this is Manchester United and we do things the hard way. Hope this fires up the lads against the Saints.
LoneStarRed Cheers for that, good call on the name.
BTW, you have any thoughts on this kid from FC Dallas that Stoke wanted to sign?
Brek Shea is the name, reports are he is really big, typical Stoke player! Was wondering if any relation to John O’Shea. Probably nothing in it but who knows.
Speaking of other teams. It’s now Villa – France 2.
Or as just posted Villa 0 – Nouveau Château 2 via Benno!
@ Fletch
Brek Shea is a highly touted attacking MF . His dynamic play has gotten people’s attention in 2010 and he was a candidate for MLS MVP in 2011. A foot injury derailed his 2012 season but he seems back on track. He is a regular in Klinsmann’s US Men’s National team line up for his creative ability. Question: Why would Stoke want do with a creative attacking player ? Lastly , he is a Texan.
http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/MNT/S/Brek-Shea.aspx
Tom on the right, Carrick in the center, Ando on the left and Kagawa behind the strikers. That would be our best bet at working the diamond. Can’t see it ever happening to be honest. Fergie hasn’t given up on wingplay yet.
Few things I’d like to point out:
1. Don’t expect everyone to agree with everything we write. All opinions, feedback gratefully received.
2. We think this tactic is a plan B; an alternative. As I write I’ve been watching United for almost 37 years and during that time we’ve always played with width, and long may that continue. But Sir Alex has experimented and his tactics have evolved over the years. This is quite a radical alternative because of the lack of wingers, which is unusual for United. But we think this is something we will see from time to time in selected matches. We thought it had gone away and then it popped up against West Ham. We aren’t saying for a minute that this shape is something we prefer.
3. Can we make it work? Yes. Can we make it work against the very best? Probably not at the moment. It fairly rare that you get a player who has absolutely every quality you would like for a position. If a player has 80% of the qualities you are looking for then you are doing pretty well. As long as you have the spread of qualities across the team then you are okay. At the moment we do lack a strong defensive minded midfield player who can tackle.
4. We’ve seen a lot of this tactic in Europe this year and it occurs that it is a response to last years European campaign. Having said that we would be very surprised if we saw this in the forthcoming matches against Real Madrid, as has been pointed out the area to exploit when playing against this system is the space in front of the fullbacks. Ronaldo and Di Maria would have a field day.
5. In Europe the story of Sir Alex’s time at the club has been the story of trying to control the centre of the pitch whilst still playing with width. When he gets this right we do well. When he doesn’t we don’t. 4-2-3-1 was an answer that worked very well for a number of years in this respect, it allows you to keep bodies in the middle whilst still playing with wide players in advanced positions. It didn’t work quite so well last year and our wide players are not currently in the best form.
6. We think the Spurs game was tactically very interesting. Jones has played a lot of football recently and Sir Alex has gone out of his way to praise him. It almost as if he’s trying to boost his confidence.
Fergie got charged I hear. That’s good. Is there any kind of punishment on the way for a linesman that once again failed top do his job properly? Or did we draw the line under Marc Clattenburg when it comes to punishing referees?
@ manutdtactics.com
Superlative piece!! I very much appreciate your efforts and contributions like yours is what makes ROM the best team blog around. As someone who inherently understands tactics and how they shape/ are are shaped by a battle space(field of play) your insight is appreciated and welcome.
On a separate but quite important note, a certain relegation threatened team in London is tied nil-nil with a certain Manchester team owned by Middle Eastern petrodollars in the 87th minute!!!!!!
I came… to see who would make up this diamond. So I guess this is what we’re left with, with everyone saying “Giggs should retire…”, Sell Nani…”, “Valencia average…”, “Young not United quality…”
@manutdtactics. Spot on. You guys do a fantastic job with your posts. Agree with whats up there. A winger at Utd is such a part of tradition that its almost anathema to think of a wingless formation. And added to that the fullbacks potential for defensive lapses means its prolly going to be a rare one. Feel Carrick is versatile enough to make an effective pivot, but it blunts his offensive abilities which is a shame. Still Kagawas a unique talent and a diamond might be one of the ways to maximize his output. The broader issue of being unable to hold onto possession and defending too deep remain.
No way will the mighty City be denird by those dumplings in London.
QPR 0:0 man city – Full time.
2 points dropped against the bottom club.
That’s a very important note. Lovely.
Well Done QPR….!
Well Well ,job done.
I knew it, I said it here after the United game in the FA Cup, after Harry rested 9 players in the FA Cup fixture, meaning they would crash out, I knew he was playing for a draw against City. Beat Southhampton now and its 7 points again
This may be of interest to United fans given you are being closely linked with Wanyama. Could be a quality player for Manchester United.
http://www.leftbackinthechangingroom.com/2013/01/victor-wanyama.html
All thoughts welcomed!
RCM
Well done QPR.. Although they were denied a penalty
Mancini will be writing to the FA asking for an investigation!
Just today Sir Alex was predicting that “points would be dropped”.
Undue influence?!
PS….. Well done QPR. Fabio doing well …. as a Midfielder! Ji Sung Park coming on late as well.
Get in Stealth United!
QPR can beat Chelsea and hold City but drop that stinker in FA Cup. All that matters is still 4 pts ahead with a game in hand. QPR stinking this year is karma for giving up last season. Hoping for a good run to take us clear and get ready to beat RM
Costas – Another case of making an example of fergie by the FA, can we add that to the “rooney has corrupted every child on the planet by swearing” charge? Same old bullshit.
I see some of these players absolutely lighting the prem up, like Adel Tarrabt, and I’m like – Why the fack didn’t Man United go for this guy… AT THAT PRICE?!? I thought this when Newcastle signed Moussa Sissoko, who is the type of box-to-box MF we’ve been missing. Maybe we have Wanyama in our sights, maybe someone else, but…. come on scouts!
Wow this is absolutely amazing. will definitely be looking into this article later on. I’m in class now Lol. Just really happy thay QPR pulled it off. Win tomorrow and its advantage United again.
@unitedyankee —> QPR had no interest in the FA Cup, its about survival for them now, Harry made 9 changes because he simply didnt want to risk any of the players he has to use in the league, and with another potentially vital point for them, it could prove to have been exactly the right thing to do.
@samuel –> Ye mate, its fucking ridiculous, saying he broke the rule because he implied bias of a match official… actually he implied incompetence, but their decision to put meaning to his words shows their obvious bias toward him. Fucking suits acting like moral police, protecting bad match officials and showing EXTREME inconsistency in how they dish out and deal with punishment. Case in point, our own Rooney….. when he said the big bad FUCK word in a United jersey… unprecedented 2 match ban that CONVENIENTLY put him out of the FA Cup semi against City….. when he kicks a player in an England jersey, they go appeal for leniency to UEFA. They make me fucking sick.
Lets win the next 2 games. That’s when today’s result will truly matter. Nice of QPR to hold on until the end this time. That kind of resilience will come in handy in the Championship next year.
Only way city dropping points would be an advantage is if united put in the shift against a very good and improving southampton team and do the job.
@ Dela Are you saying that Harry’s rant after the FA cup loss was staged for the media? Are you saying Harry did that to divert from questions about fielding a weaker team prior to the EPL match because staying up is much more a priority to QPR than the FA Cup? Harry Redknapp would never do such a thing. Never. 9(tongue firmly in cheek)
@LoneStarRed –> He’s a straight up guy dat Arry, rite?
@Samuel
Under different circumstances, I’d be fine with the FA charging managers for getting out of line. How about doing the same for referees? That’s twice Ferguson has been charged by the FA for pointing out an official’s bias against United. Do they ever go through the trouble of looking into that? It’s like these refs are the Pope ffs.
@ Dela Especially when it comes to transfers. Especially.
@ Rob Marrs
Good piece on Celtic’s scouting and Wanyama skills. For a LFC supporter you seem quite lucid.
Dela – we know there’s one rule for united abd another for the rest. In other words, everything done by anyone affiliated manchester united is constantly under the microscope and this charge only emphasises that. As you’ve pointed out, fergie merely pointed out obvious incompetence by an hopeless lines-man, that awful decision wasn’t the first time and rather than sort the issue out, they’ve jumped on fergie/united. Pathetic but not suprising.
one has to think that for a diamond to be successful as a team we must to two things;
1) press the ball; we can’t be playing a narrow formations and allow teams to leisurely have possession, especially in wide areas.
2) we have to keep the ball better; all the cheap giveaways only hurts cause the DM/pivot gets isolated especially if we lost the ball in midfield.
Does QPR taking two points away from ManShitty today make up for gifting them three points in May ?
Costas – they’d probably demote them into the lower tier of football for a few weeks and then bring them back to cause more bullshit. In other terms, flush the shit and then bring back the shit, philosophy of the FA.
denton davey – No.
denton davey – it is possibly, but shitty have never been convincing champions or challengers,really over that 2 year period since 2011, their title win last year they always looked scared, and when the heat has been on, they have buckled under the pressure, this year they have been no different, much like last year, poor in Europe, very basic in the PL. United have been up and down, but they have looked like a dominating force that has sent a message. This united side has allot of holes, but they are allot quicker going forward, and they always find ways to open the door, and RVP rooney and hernandez are the difference makers, between us and them
diamond wouldnt work for us…
we are a team who is renowed for wing play,and play it effectively…we will be so narrow if we were to play diamond and lack width..we were poor wen we played it,and it was going great and once we got back to our normal way we started winning and went on a run…
we dont need to change anything,its all going well
well done qpr…
lets win tomorrow..7 pts clear…anything less than a win would be a disgrace!
id play rooney on the left,nani on right,ando n carrick in the middle and chicha and rvp up front
back 4 of rafa,vida,smalls/evans/ferds,evra
de gea
GGMU
@King Eric
So you think those four are capable of playing the short passing moves through the middle of a packed pitch leading to goals ?.
Go on QPR.
Tarrabt is one hell of a player.
If better players around him
@King Eric
Haha, the moment you told samuel not to rise to trolls, you did it yourself.
Lets all just ignore the troll altogether
Marq – yea just ignore him altogether
well at least these QPR did something right to make up for that disaster showing last season but i want them relegated non the less for that royal fuck up.
Now the title is ours to lose, really I can’t see city catching us again, but we must take every game seriously.that should be our strategy.
Zigoo – I agree on one result playing 424 shitty 2 3 united
Common reds go on marching for the 20 th tittle ,,really can’t see us losing this year it is the year for our double over shitty and our 20th tittle
And as for champions league show that lad ronnie what he missed when he left for that cunt club, , he will learn how great club we are when we beat the shit out of madrid ,,common guys lets lick thier arses ,, we are man utd we do what we want
Great article on tactics. & well done QPR. Now lets blow this Southampton out of the water. Early goals to make it comfortable.
@parryheid – well there’s 3 points that weren’t quite as nailed on as you thought.
QPR have been difficult to beat at home with the exception of 2 or 3 games. Most of the other results were nil nils and low score draws. We’ll have it tough there ourselves next month.
That said it’s great news that our main rival dropped 2 points but as Fergie said he expects us to drop them too and we know we will.
Bobby, QPR got the points because Redknapp decided to play desperation tactics.
Sent Ferdinand to siberia (well turkey anyway)
Filled out the bench with keepers showing that they are true sh*te for depth.
Rest of the team then showed the boss why they don’t want to be shipped to turkey as well!
But nothing is going to save QPR. If this experience doesn’t wake Fabio up nothing else will! HA
Just off topic ,,
Man utd needs to buy wanyama ,,,
And luke shaw or lucas digne,,,,,
And a excellent winger c.rodrigez or maybe someday the return of ronnie himself and it will make us unstopable ,just imagine rvp , rooney , ronnie , upfront plus cleverly , wanyama , powel in the center and shaw or digne , rafa , jones , evans ,, and then world class david da gea ,, just an imagination though wanyama and an decent left back should do good for now
Bobby Charltons combover.
HaH,you seriously dont get it do you try looking at my post at the tail end of two tppics ago.
Parryheid: Cheers mate, the ‘HEX’ is, most definitely, ON!
@Parry – wasn’t having a go. keep going with the hex.
The only thing qpr can do to get points is park the bus and do a smash and grab but I can’t see them staying up. They just don’t have enough quality. The ‘harry’ effect is just not happening.
i hope we do our job tonight it will be a hard match
we need to be at our best
4-1 to us
rvp 2 welbeck and rooney
Strongest possible team tonight and no fucking about with creating records for old players please Fergie.Get on ththere case from the off.
I got a solid feeling tonight sir alex will rotate the team once again ,, I will not be surprised if nani ,, tony V ,, will sit out and kagawa and welbeck will start ahead of them,,hopefully nani & tony V start for us ,, RVP and rooney start together and evans on the bench hopefully
If Vidic is fit, he will be in. Same with Rooney. Both need games. I will be traveling again so might not have the best access. In the hands of the wireless gods……. again
The good thing about southhampton is they dnt sit back. The will come out to score and hopefully play stright into our hands… Lets hope its a comfortable 1 tonight people!
A diamond can be defensive or attacking. Defensive through middle and counter attacking we can do. Attacking against weak teams we can do. Attacking teams with strength in middle e.g. Barca, we can’t do.
Against Real don’t see it, but the master may.
I fail to understand why we cannot accommodate our best players in a proper formation. These guys are smart enough to play a variety of roles.
I have always thought that in Europe our best hope as against a 4-4-2 has to be a 4-3-2-1
Rafael – Vidic – Evans / Rio – Evra
Cleverley – Carrick – Anderson
Kagawa-Rooney
RVP
Tell me that this team is not good enough to win the Champions league? C’mon.
When we won’t have the ball we will press from the front with Rooney , Kagawa, RVP backed up by the 3 midfielders. Technically good , not so narrow that our full backs are exposed. I think we can beat anyone.
When we do , we break hard with two players running into the channels and RVP pushing out left making more space. Clev and Ando pushing front to support along with Full-backs. And Carrick playiing the pivot. Ando makes excellent thru passes as well.
I think this is the formation to win us the Champions league this season – I am confident that we can get Real and others after them with this formation and personnel. Whadya think I am smoking
Red4ever brings up a great point Luke Shaw is going to be phenomenal.
foxinthebox – the diamond oes not work, its been tried, our best results, chelsea shitty liverpool away, have been with width pace, and pressing, so I do not see the diamond working
Why doesn’t SAF try Valencia on the left flank, at least when he cuts in then he might be more dangerous than he is at the moment. I think he would link up great with Evra also. Then we could play Nani on his favoured wing as well. I have great tims for Valencia, power, strength, pace and good defensively. I just think a change might spark something in him – all our other ‘wingers’ get swapped all the time but it never happens with Tony V.
parry – Your hex worked again!
Taarabt at United.? Are you serious? Fat fucking cunt who bowls around like a big man. One good game in 10.
@Fergie is the Boss – you are right it doesn’t work . However, what i meant was shifting the diamond forward. I think it shud work in Europe. Sure Sir Alex must be knowing the strengths/ weaknesses of the players and the kind of formation that works best. Not disputing that but just throwing an idea for debate as a long time Manutd supporter who craves United domination in Europe like Milan of Circa 2004-2007, Barcelona since then – no offense meant. I always get haggered by my buds who say United are not sophisticated in Europe, disciplined yes, but at times gung-ho not mature for the calibre of players. I fight back but I sometimes tend to agree.
My formation in Europe away: 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3
Carrick – Cleverley (holding mids interceptors whatever we’d call em, shielding the defense and also pinging the ball around)
Anderson (slightly advanced from Carrick and Cleverley when Manutd have possession, base of diamond)
Kagawa-Rooney (Attacking positions, sides of the diamond)
RVP (leading the line, head of the diamond)
Anderson can slip back to support Carrick and Cleverley when Manutd don’t have the ball. When they do Anderson shifts front and drives forward. This 4-3-2-1 / 4-3-3 with diamond pushed forward should work. Its not too open a team, its tight, good cover to the defenders, and freedom to full backs, Kagawa, Rooney to roam and dovetail while attacking. The idea is to be tight and win the midfield battle – can happen with this.
Pressing with almost a 4-5-1 when they lose the ball. three midfielders and two players slightly forward harrying the opposition defense.