After the updates on our financial situation today, MUST chairman, Duncan Drasdo, has reiterated the fans’ desire to get rid of the Glazers.
“Most supporters have had enough,” said Drasdo. “Under their ownership the club has become liable for more than £260million in interest payments alone and the latest trading statement would have shown a substantial loss were it not for the sale of Ronaldo. The day the Glazers put the club up for sale you can expect celebration on the streets of Manchester.”
Man Utd News 24/7
Whats your ideas on the subject, Scott ? I am confused with all of this terms today but this situation is a really worrying one.
in full http://www.tribalfootball.com/anti-glazer-supporters-slam-man-utd-debt-levels-566771
I am with MUST on this one. However, the debts will never go away now. Someone else might buy the company, but they will be passed along like a hot potato. We have enjoyed great success in the last 4 years, but I am afraid that in 20-30 years, the debts will be the legacy that they left at the club.
i expect the same turnout as the parade in 99.
Meanwhile argie cunt scores his 11th goal. so what ?
Corea.. so nothing mate, he can score 500 goals if he wants, he is no longer United so it matters not one bit..
I’ll be a happy United fan when the Glazers fuck off
Exactly. Sorry Scott, but it just fell out my mouth. No more of this.
Another thing about Tevez, Benzema or any other expensive player that we didn’t sign this summer. Looking at our profit, you have to wonder just how much of it we would have had, if we did sign a “big name”. In Tevez’s case, the profit would have been trimmed down to 23million. That’s why I often wondered how sincere we were about signing these two players.
The sooner thay leave the better. Last season it was Ronaldo`s sale to help make profit. This season ,who ?? Rooney and Vidic , to make another 80M ?
lets stop the talking, and do something to save our club, we need direct non violent demos, starting on sat v burnley, lets make man united plc un manageable and force the glazers to go, demos on the pitch and off it, and lets not forget the irish mafia who sold out to them in the 1st place
Now is the time to push the board with a petition to float say 60% of the club on the stock exchange so all the fans can buy a slice.
100,000 fans investing £1,000 each will raise £100m not to mention pension funds etc.
This way the Glazers save face, we the fans get our club back (the fans owned less than 20% when MUFC was a Plc) and the money raised gets rid of a huge slug of debt.
There is not much more the glazers can do, the stadium is at capacity, the TV money pot is not going to grow expenentially.
I call for a flotation? What do you think?
Agreed. Every minute those parasitic Gimps are here, they suck more cash & more of the life out of the proper match going reds.
GO AWAY!… as MUST so nicely put it!
glazers are a disgrace we always knew this was coming they have had nothing to do with the succes in last 5 years the players and staff has
Great idea in principle Murdock but the problem will be getting people to commit to the cause. Of course there’s always the die hards who stump up cash & time for the reds week in week out but we need the others to join with us. How many members have MUST got now? Whatever the number is, they deserve more. Too many so called ‘United fans’ have their heads in the clouds (or up their arses) regarding the Glazers & the damage they are doing.
off topic
is there any ignorant left that still thinks berba is better than tevez !
hahahaha!
told yall !!!!
Costas,the debt doesn’t have to stay with us.My understanding is most of the debt is in Glazers name so therefore when they go,so will the debt,the club is profitable as a going concern and was debt free before the Yanks arrived.It’s not as if we are a Portsmouth or a Leeds.The Yanks borrowed to finance themselves rather than the club.
I’ve been waiting for any news regarding a protest at a game. I’m afraid that Mags the red is right…there are still too many match-going reds who simply got to games like Lemmings and don’t realise the deep brown stuff we are in! I’ll start my ‘We want Glazer out’ chant…but I doubt I’ll get much support.
@weeeeldrinkadrinkadrink
That’s something that I have wondered about myself. Supposing that the Glazers are burdened with the debt, why would they leave the club? Man United is their only way to pay it. In a way, they have connected the debt to the club. And it’s affecting the club on a yearly basis now. I really hope that there is a way to get them the hell out. They didn’t back down when they had to unfortunately.
I know that it’s pointless looking to back to the past, but you have to wonder what would have happened if Murdoch bought the club in 99. At the time I was against it, but we did eventually become a private company. At least Murdoch wasn’t planning on indebting the club like that.
Excuse the tone. The news have really depressed me.
i agree with murdock. yes tell the yanks f*** off and leave our beloved club for us we will manage as we r managing to pay off ur F**king debt. i got my F***ing savings. i can offrd to buy £25000 worth shares and there will b more to put from other fans. we r not shity who eats council money we r wealthy working class we can afford more tha yanks can. i am really fed up reading news like this in recent years where never been a news before also i have a feeling this yanks will lead our club for a joke from other fans. please come on guys our duty to save our club which we follow like a religion. we dont wan to see another stamford bridge situation i mean we fans standing with a bucket and asking the public to save our club. GET OUT YANKSSSS SHOUT UNTILL THEY LISTEN. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. IT MAKE US LOOKING CLOWNS.
weeeeldrinkadrinkadrink: They leveraged the purchase of the club against the value of the club. The debt stays with the club, not them.
My big question is, who buys if they sell? Murdock’s solution is noble, but the PLC is always susceptible to another buyout from another asshole. Furthermore, the old PLC structure was beginning to see the end of its ability to effectively keep the team competitive – as soon as Abramovich came in and money was no object, it worked against a club like ours where fiscal responsibility was very much in balance.
So, not only are you up against the bottomless pits of the middle east ans Russia, you now have to do it while servicing the Glazers’ debt, making the old PLC a surefire answer to United losing, and losing out on, more and more great players.
Furthermore, German clubs, which are held by a law that determines that a hefty percentage of the club must be owned by local shareholders (re: fans) are pushing hard to get rid of the rule because they feel they can’t compete internationally when they’re at a financial disadvantage.
Unfortunately, it looks like United’s only solution other than seeing out the debt via the Glazers’ plan (and it’s not a terrible plan, economically speaking, but it’s far from a great one too) is for the club to be purchased by a sugardaddy.
The good news: There are a lot of sugardaddies out there still, and the cache of owning Manchester would put to shame any status acquired through the purchase of the noisy neighbours and the southern rentboys.
The bad news: WE become noisy rentboys too, new owner could be bigger asshole than Glaziers.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is why the work “dilemma” exists.
SB
listen guys it doesnt matter who owes to whom end if the day our club in debt where people queing to pay the yanks billion and leave the club without debt so we dont want a cock sucking yank just ask him to leave the club if he cant afford or fulfill our demands simple as that or protest untill yanks sell the club no ticket sale after 2 games yanks will b brought to our knees. we dont want asugar daddy just sell the shares to the fans there millioniore fans waiting for the chance to own a share from oue beloved club and proud to b a red devil. if any one suspect just take vote on that we can circulate more than our club value.
@Costas
Remember though these aren’t actually the clubs accounts, its the accounts of the holding company that last year made a loss of 21mill while the club itself made 80mill profit. There are obviously some crossover but its also not quite the same I would imagine the holding companies actually not intented to be that profitable while the ‘loans’ are there.
Personally I think people get too concerned about the debt, alot of business run in some kind of debt because its the more profitable way to do it. Its certainly not like its a Leeds style debt as they are debts that are serviceable (The debt attached to the club is and the PIK’s the Glazers have certainly were and I suspect while the margins not as good they still are)
I certainly don’t think changing ownership is necessarily a great idea, despite all the negativity they haven’t been bad owners and have and have just let the football people run the football side and have supported it.
A new owner, especially a billionaire one will just come in and throw money at the situation and we will be no better off than Chelsea, City or Real where the Owner makes snap decisions and buys the players they want to buy (and if they are like Abramavich dictate the team selection when he feels like it).
And a Return to a PLC situation would be a step back, we have been so more efficient in the transfer market when we haven’t had to run things by shareholders thus tipping our hat. Along with Kenyon being a liability the PLC factor did play a part in us missing out on a number of players.
And a Fan Ownership would be a PLC situation times 10 .
Its better too have fewer people wanting and having a right to have a say than more and its better the devil you know than the one you don’t
Hey guys same here i’d also join in the celebrating when these bloodsucking glazers. like MUST said we’ll be better off to see the back of the “leeches”.
@CROney
exactly what are you trying to prove mate? i mean i for one think berba is better than tevez and although tevez has scored more goals than berba does’nt mean he’s better than him. also technically berba is far superior than tevez and as much you might disagree with me berba can create something out of nothing and it’s not only average it’s special and it’s world class. he’s world class as a matter of fact whereas you get tevez who has a poor touch and therefore replaces that with running like a headless chicken!
Bishopsville,are you saying if someone bought the club for a billion or so tomorrow off the Yanks,then the club would still be left with 700 million debt?
I wonder why we kept berbatove and let tevez leave. berbatove is not a united type player. no passion, not many goals to compensate for that. i still think we are capable if we buy one striker and one creative midfer.
We should make our feelings known at the next home match.
Recently there were reports that a Chinese consortium wanted to buy the club(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6955272.ece) . Provided that these reports are true and that these people have the best interests of Man United in their minds, the Glazers should cashin and leave.
We need to get out of this black hole any way we can and then never ever allow the club to be burdened like this. It still beggars belief that Glazers were allowed to take over the club like they did. It looks worse than a daylight robbery.
Just imagine what could we do with £260m?
And finally, I am now convinved that the debt was the main reason Fergie let Ronaldo leave as easily as he did.
If the Glazers sell United they will just leave the debt to the next owner. The only way we can survive this is if they find a way to make more money and pay down the debt. The problem is if they don’t invest in the team and sell players we will drop out of the top 4 and lose the Champions’ League money that is really the only thing keeping us afloat.
Wakey:
I see. I will wait for the club report to come out then and see how it compares.
I really wish there was a game this week. Something to get our minds of this mess.
There is a little video discussion about the Glazer debt on the FT.com website…
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9818c420-fef4-11de-a677-00144feab49a.html
interesting.. the expert saying their project is dependent on United staying successful on the pitch, also thinks in about 5 years when the refinancing is due they may look to exit..
Thanks Tony Starks.
“After the bond issue, the club will have £117m of cash on its balance sheet, of which £70m will be made available to the Glazer family to pay down PIK debt or to be used in the transfer market.”
Gee, I wonder what they will do…
I aren’t going to comment yet as none of us really have any idea what the figures or details are. Save to say John Champion enjoyed gloating on ESPN. It seems every man and his dog want to kick United at the minute. We will rise above it.
Cannot believe the form that Judas bastard is in. Well taken hat trick. Everything he does is coming off at the minute. Inevitably this will lead to more criticism for United and Fergie for allowing him to leave, They still look very vulnerable at the back and in the middle and I just hope United turn up next week. Now of course all the talk is how City will stroll to the title. They will face much tougher tests than Blackburn who were awful tonight. That is till they decided to play at 70 mins.
time is enough, glazers out, how i wish i lived in manchester
king eric
watched the game aswell, blackburn wer non existent untill they scored, even then they put a fight up for what, 10 minutes untill tevez got his fucking third, it wasnt long ago on the citeh forums them cunts were saying that fergie was right to sell him cuz hes shite, im sure the fickle blues have him as a hero now…twats
xyth sorry don’t agree with you on the ronaldo issue he wanted out a year before we sold him.what’s really beginning to piss me off is alot of people calling sir alex a liar about transfer funds,he’s not the kind of man that’s going to lie to fans.i agree with him the amount of money clubs want for the players and players wage demands is just fucking stupid,clubs like real and city are ruining the game by what their paying
King Eric.. yeah Tevez took some good goals, to be honest didn’t feel happy or sad to see him score – it was like a not bothered feeling… but City played quite open – I think their style will suit us, can’t wait for those games..
This John Champion guy has turned out to be a total prat, can’t remember him from anything before this ESPN job – and Chris Waddle! – says they bought Viera to play defense! and this guy gets paid!
It’s worth remembering, when United fans were so staunchly against the sale, they were against selling in general. It’s unreal that fans have now been reduced to hoping that the club is in turn bought out again, this time by somebody not incurring mass debts to complete a takeover.
To this day I’m still astonished by the initial takeover. Having made no financial sense, it must go down as one of the worst ever business acquisitions. Let’s assume the buyout was fuelled by a genuine love for the club. They’ve financially crippled this club in the name of satisfying their own egos.
It makes me feel sick the more I think about it.
About Tevez. It’s really pointless arguing anymore. He is doing well and to be honest I expected him to. But his time at United is over. The way things are now, there was no way he was going to get a new contract. He cost 5 million more than our transfer budget.
Costa – oh yes I am with must tell me where do I sign, as for the tevez thing since it is brought up its a horrible thing to say but if given the choice spend 30 million on berbatov or tevez it wouild propably be tevez unfortunetly.
the annoying thing is many got it wrong on berbatov he was not all what he has been cracked up to be that many united fans have said, and the irony is if bebatov was performing like tevez at the moment the berba fans would ram it down many berbatov doubters throats like myself.
errr… very easy to target a guy when he’s down… I’d like to see how tevez did when playing half injured against teams that come and park the bus.. sure he would run around a lot, and by the way, how many league goals did he score for us last year? o right ok. I’ not a Berba fan or anything but how hard is it to support the shirts as long they are playing for us..
Xyth – I don’t think Fergie let Ronaldo leave easily. Ronaldo has been saying he wanted to go since the summer of 2006 (with several, I want to stay here/only God knows my future spiels in between) so I think Fergie did as well to keep him for as long as he did. I read an interview with Fergie where he said him and Queiroz thought we would get to keep him for 4 or 5 years before he left for Madrid, so was happy to get him for 6 seasons.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=237878324590
I hate that gloating Jon Champion right to the core, he makes me feel sick. All these media-hacks acting like we’re getting relagated tomorrow.
They’re all going on about how the CITEH inbreds are about to win the league tomorrow, they’ve beaten teams they’d have won under Hughes!
let them go the screw up our beloved Manchester United those fuckers Glazerss
Off topic….
Fergie going on about value for money the whole time
£30m for Dimitar Berbatov..hardly value for money when you look at the number of goals and assits he’s provided for us in 1 1/2 seasons.
£30m could have bought:
Niko Kranjčar – £2.5M
Wilson Palacios – £12m
Aaron Lennon – £10m
And it’s gonna be even worse in the summer with it being a World Cup year, 3 good games in the world cup and thats £10m added onto their value.
Costas – it makes me angry disgusted that these freaks from america were allowed to takeover the club when they could not afford to buy the club.
I will never forget the FA chief executive saying we will have to wait and see if the glazers are good and bad so they are playing russian roulette with the british game.
Well didnt America do that with their security before 9/11 they never addresed the problems with heavy security and what happened the twin towers were attacked many died. look at the Titanic many said oh the ship is unsinkable, with not enough life boats on the ship not taking notice of ice warnings and boom the ship goes down many died. It is the same with clubs, can someone tell me how shocking the state of the game the FA is running. It makes me sick how the FA and premier league are running our game how it was their responsiblity to look after our game and not let owners with no money run clubs into the ground to buy clubs then leave to make a profit and leave us to pick up the pieces. We have fatcats in the FA premier league who always say they all want success well did they check how they buy clubs, they would allow osama bin laden take over a football club they allow any bastard to buy a club.
i`ve been reading this blog for about 2 years now over here in ireland but this glazer shit has just really got my back up i joined must tonight also it`s just total crap n sums up our summer singing`s low budget n freebe`s
lets get them yank bastards out of our club
I don’t think the financial situation is the reason why everyone’s nervous about united. Sure, we shouldn’t be servicing such debt – the blame could go to McManus and Magnier for selling their controlling stake to the cash poor Glazers. The sale might even be connected to the disputed ownership of racehorse ‘Rock of Gibraltar’ which caused the Irish duo to fall out with Alex Ferguson in 2004.
Players and agents are often as greedy than the bankers behind bonds and loans. United haven’t done so well in buying or developing young players of late (only Fletcher) plenty money wasted.
The only good news is that Arsenal, Chelsea, LIverpool and Citeh are all a bit shit at the moment too. We’re still able to win major trophies this year – hopefully Owen will be gone soon, still makes me a bit sick seeing how keen he is to get out ther and scuff the ball for United.
3 titles in a row.
2 Champions League finals in a row.
World Club Champions.
Presently 2nd in the league and 1 title away from the historical no.19.
All since the purchase of our club by the Glazer family.
Coincidence? Sure. Whatever. Believe me, if their management was so bad, the wheels would have come off within a season or two for sure.
So a few unconvincing performances, the club seemingly not wanting to pay 2-3 times fair market value for unproven (in the EPL) so called big names – aka panic buying. And the anti-Glazer rhetoric starts all over again.
Please. These xenophobic rants, are making us look like those whinging lot from down the road – and they really are suffering from inept ownership. Although you do have to admit that the Hicks Jr email was priceless. I don’t blame him. How anyone could put up with that constant Scouse whining, is beyond me. I managed about 5 minutes of it on the radio this morning before I had to switch off.
The very worst thing our supporters can do now, is turn their energy into a negative, renewed anti-Glazer campaign. Particularly if it involves demonstrations, before or during games.
Do we really want a Russian Oligarch, a random Sheikh, or a Chinese consortium to come in and chuck money at the club, purely to satisy their egos? I for one say no thanks. The present owners are in this to make money, that much is certain. However, the basis for a football club to generate money, is primarily through success on the pitch, right?
So let’s not lower ourselves to become like the whining protesting Scousers, or the sycophantic City fans with their bizarre, if not slightly disturbing banners in Arabic ‘thanking’ Sheikh Mansour (for what?). Let us stay United.
Paul H – dont even think of giving the glazers any credit it is all ferguson and the coaching staff. we won the trophys inspite of the glazers, ferdinand ronaldo rooney all came before the glazes arrived. old trafford was extended before they arrived, I hope the old bastard glazer has another stroke because he is one of the many glazer freaks responsible for almost crippling united financially.
“If the Glazers sell United they will just leave the debt to the next owner.”
“Bishopsville,are you saying if someone bought the club for a billion or so tomorrow off the Yanks,then the club would still be left with 700 million debt?”
Both the above comments are just not true. Most certainly not true.
Why?
Well when a person sells a house or business, the building society or bank receives the money owed to it before the deal is finalised. So if a person comes along who wants to buy UTD then most of the the money he puts up will go to the banks to whom money is owed. What’s left goes to the Glazers.
For example if the price to buy UTD is £1.2billion, then the debt will be cleared by giving the loan banks what’s owing to them, about £700m. The Glazers will be left with £500m – not bad for an investment of £200m.
Some people are saying that the size of the debt – £700m – is stopping buyers from buying. Not true.
My opinion is that there are many potential buyers waiting in the wings for the Glazers to fall over, as may very well happen. But it must be remembered that new owners will probably saddle the club with debt, but its up to the FA to insist that no more than say 20% of the value of the club can be bought with borrowed money.
The situation that allowed the Glazers to buy a major football club with 80% of its value in borrowings should never be allowed to happen again.
So what has the FA done in the past 5 years to prevent this situation happening again? As far as I know, sweet FA.
As some of you know too well, I have been dreading this day for a long time. Things are coming to a head in some senses now – or a least in the sense that any United fan with any wish to open their eyes can see what the last three seasons of being fed transfer bullshit have really been about. The real reasons that Ronaldo went, Tevez went, countless signings we were linked to passed us by, why the big name signings Gill promised two seasons in a row never materialised. It’s all being layed bare before our eyes and worse is to come. The Guardian have published an article concerning a number of strange things in the accounts just published, not least that the Glazers have both charged the football club millions in managemnt and administrative fees and given a loan of 10 million in total to their children secured by and borrowed from United. As asked, has no one bothered to wonder why the hell the Glazer children are borrowing 10 million pounds from United?
As the Guardian also say, they have built a net of small companies that are feeding off United and draining millions from the club with extravagant management and administration fees. The accounts show that in all over the three years they have owned the club, including the 10 million loan, they have taken 23 million from a club they have plunged into debt and doubled the price of tickets for the fans. All this on top of the huge debt they have saddled the club with and banked on us supporters paying back and from guys who the Guardian point out have seemingly not taken a penny in wages since they have been in charge according to the accounts. They have taken wages alright, just in the backhanded and cheating way you might expect from these swindlers! It seems they will even get a £6 million payout for administrative fees from United, to one of their ‘companies’, for issuing this new Bond lone!!! What a load of bastards!!
The terrifying thing is that they have maybe known all along that the debt would never be paid back. Not by them at least. They are just using the opportunity to asset strip and milk the club for what they can. Then they saddle the club with all the remaining debt and walk away with a tidy profit, allowing the banks who call in the clubs debt to move in and finish us off. That is also a scenario that was written about in one of the broad sheets a few months ago. Makes you sick just thinking about how this was allowed to happen.
Oh, the link to the Guardian article for those who can’t find it;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/12/manchester-united-glazers-debt
I wrote the above comments in great haste – as you can probably tell – so it is full of grammatical and spelling mistakes. I need to get some sleep, but I can see I wrote “in the 3 and a half years the Glazers have owned the club”. Of course that should just read “in the last 3 and a half years”. The Glazers took over the club around five years ago now . May 2005 it was.
Did we really want Fergie to come out and say “We’re broke lads.” That just makes us look weak and has psychological implications both within and without the club.
I wouldn’t mind a Russian oily at all. An asian venture would also be quite welcome. Both would bring fresh money in and at the very least allow us to put our profits towards the club, not buying it back from creditors.
It’s insulting to call Utd. supporters demanding that a specific group that have done nothing but ill to the club, leave xenophobic. It’s not the go home yanks or violence of the scouse, but a justified anger directed at a group of individuals.
*The only reason I’m against a middle eastern consortium is that I think eventually their people will force them to invest in their futures rather than an English football club.
Paul H. Glazer, please shut the fuck up. You dismiss the anti-Glazer sentiment as xenophobia then declare your opposition to Russian, Arab and Chinese investors. Not very bright are you, Glazerboy?
You must be a fucking Glazer. I don’t know which of the gimps you are – Avi, Joel, Bryan, Doris, Gertrude – nor do I care. Just take this message back to Florida with you:
GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF OUR CLUB, YOU SNIVELLING RAT BASTARDS.
Our success in recent 3 years is NOT thanks to the Glazers. How on earth can people actually make that statement? We were successful before they “bought” the club (quotation marks because they actually didn’t buy it, they took a huge loan for it and then put it on the club).
Our success is thanks to Sir Alex Ferguson and his mastermind.
I agree with Duncan Dresdo at MUST, we don’t need a sugar daddy to be successful, we just need to get rid of the leeches.
Just read another article in the mail and just realised that this Bond issue is exactly the way the Glazers will transfer their personal debt to the club. They are wanting to use the money to pay off the high interest loans they are personally responsible for, but the Bonds will be the responsibility of the club. If the banks allow them to pay the hedge loans off rather than the debt against the club at present, then they have in effect transfered their own personal loans to Manchester United Football Club. They are then home and dry and can sell more players to publish trading profits from which they take huge slices. They then walk away from the club whenever they want, selling on it’s debt burden to any potential buyer or just letting the banks move in if not.
No middle eastern sugar daddy….BTW, Sheik Mansur’s brother was found guilty of torturing some afghan merchant last year. Maybe that is City’s motivation in not losing many games? Of course he does not have to go to jail, because it is Dubai after all. City are in for a treat if they go on a losing streak!
The glazer daddy did also sell his 24M mansion in florida….they said that he never even lived in it….
This is depressing!
Does MUST have any plans to organize fan ownership or are we just waiting around for another billionaire to come and fuck us over again?
Tevez did well today. Not a bad player.
might be worth signing.
I’ll fly in from the far east to join the celebrations the day the yanks fcuk off. And if we ever need some $$$ to help keep the club afloat, i’ll dig in my life savings too (just don’t tell the missus!)
A whole lot of depressing articles in the last few days have really worried me.The Glazers have taken us for a good ride though.I sincerely hope i am wrong in saying this but i dont feel many will want to buy the club now with it being saddled in debt.who is gonna cough up 1 billion pounds to buy the club?.Worse still considering we made profit last year due to the Ronaldo sale if we dont anything this season( there is a high chance of that happening) we are going to record massive losses this year. The only way for Glazers to avoid that is sell Rooney and Vidic. The way they have been doing things they may even think about it only for SAF to stop them.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2804004/So-will-Rooney-be-next-to-go.html
Also isnt David Gill at fault for this?. Why did he let the takeover go ahead after rejecting it the first time?
As for Tevez, good to see him doing well. Always liked and will like him as a player. Gave in 100% every time.The club is to blame for his exit as well because we didnt handle the issue the way they should have. His problem was with his attitude of not grasping what being a squad member means and the fact that his mind had been turned. Otherwise i could never see him leaving United
He is no more with us though, so better not talk about it and stop the tevez-berbatov comparisions. There are enough problems at the club at the moment both on and off the field that can be discussed than this meaningless debate
aig
morning, good to see some positive comments but i would disagree with…..”gave in 100% every time.The club is to blame for his exit as well because we didnt handle the issue the way they should have”.
me thinks the club did more than enough for tevez to stay.the problem with the lad was his decisions was influenced by people who didn’t want us to have him.there is no way carlos was going to stay since day one it was all clear to me and at the end of his contract i didn’t want him to.
RED SAM
morning mate.
Well thats just my opinion. Even when the relationship between SAF and him was sour he still gave everything i am also saying the club did not do enough because we kept on promising him we would offer him a deal for a year and a half and then we said that he wasnt worth 25 million clearly proved by the fact that we were negotiating with his owners rather than just pay that amount which we had agreed when we signed him.In the end we very reluctantly offered him the deal You cant just say we will pay that amount and then say a player is not worth it especially as he did pretty well in his 2 years at the club scoring some massiveky important goals for us without which the 2008 sucess would not have been possible
i admit it was his fault too making contrasting statements on Argentinean radio stations, moaning despite getting enough games and finally when he had the chance to join us,rejecting the chance because he knew he would get more games that Ronaldo had left
I am not saying this because he scored a hat trick yesterday but i have always felt like that about him.good player,very hard working but had his head turned around very easily.
People will disagree with me on this one, infact nearly everyone will but the fact that he joined shitty should in no way make us forget the part he played in our success
hey guys whats going on about this glazers why the kill our team now this fucckers the don’t even know what is Football read this comments here
IT is Manchester United’s ultimate nightmare and it could decide whether or not Wayne Rooney stays.
http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?162-So-will-Rooney-be-next-to-go&p=163#post163
Manchester City replace United in partnership with Sporting Lisbon• City to get first option on signing Sporting players
• Portuguese club previously produced Cristiano Ronaldo
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/11/manchester-city-partnership-sporting-lisbon
@man u fan
could you please for the respect of the club CHANGE YOUR USERNAME !!
sorry for that but its disgusting…
Hi, Scott The Red
I have been following this blog for quite a while now and it seems there is a lot of misinformation floating around with regards to the actual position of debt the club finds itself in.
Now I dont claim to be an absolute expert as we all continue to learn, but I would like to help out in clearing up some misconceptions floating around here, my education and training as a Chartered Accountant and a Masters in Economics and Masters in Finance (No…I’m not a nerd, just like to study and am a crazy Man United fan for 12 years or so!!) might help in this regard. I have made a detailed study of the accounts (or whatever little the Glazers have put up!) and am in the process of preparing a detailed write-up (in as simple language as possible) on the situation. If you could give me your e-mail address then I could send the piece to you and you can put it up for the benefit of everybody on here. Any questions or doubts can be clarified on this forum itself…
Cheers!
P.S: This is not an attempt to take up space or publicity…I would just like all my fellow reds to be well-informed of the situation.
@ aig
tottally agree with ya on that one we shouldn’t forget what he did to us.
HARGREAVES’ CURLY HAIR
always like ignorants like you who say ” what are youz on about ?!!!!1111!! berbaz first touch is world claz!!!111!!! he’s miles better than headless chicken !!!!111! ”
grow up mate – you want to see something out of nothing – look at the last 2 tevez goals last night…look at his 2nd gaol – berbatov would have never opted for tha ball to benjani ( he would have passed it to the nearest man or sideways), and even if he passed it to benjani he would have started sprinting from his own half to get at the end of it …as for tevez third – berbatov would have turned around and passed it to someone else…
you not not everything about football is tehnique you ignorant..it’s about mentality- tevez has the mentality of a winner, berbatov of a quitter
CROoney
Hi.
Why are you comparing tevez and Berbatov. One is our player , other is not . End of the story.There are other important issues that we have like our poor form of late and our financial crisis. That is more important than this debate.
Morning guys.
@CROoney
AIG is right. Tevez is out of here. Get over him. Berba is our player. Try to get behind him. I wasn’t too fond of Michael Owen either, but I have tried to embrace the lad.
@rooney the new king
You are right about the Glazers. Unfortunately there is not much the FA could have done. Free market remember? As a PLC you are always exposed for a takeover. Those who have to answer to the fans are the two Magnier and Mcmanus(sorry fi I don’t remember the names) who made Glazer a majority stockholder. But then again, what do they care?
Red C is right. Here’s another article about the damn leeches taking money out of the club: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6969666/Manchester-United-owners-take-23m-out-of-club.html
AIG – soon after berbatov gets a kick in the arse for not improving us and actually making us worse, slow, predictable and playing with 10 men, can we compare them then ?
i’m comparing them to mock to all those ignorants who overrated his time for spurs and called him better than tevez for his “ball holding abilty, first touch and tehnique”…he was never that good at spurs and he was a 1 season wonder..if you want tehnique, first touch and ball holding ability then hopefully united will sign some freestyler from the streets to be a show pony..
the guy lacks desire, goal threat and speed for us – where does that leave him ?
CROoney
As i said i never like to compare United players. Now that tevez isnt with us and scoring goals the comparisions will inevitably start since Berba hasnt done very well this season
Berbatov is a good player ,he just hasnt settled well enough at United. A player cant do well at a club does not mean he isnt a good player. Berbatov was excellent at Spurs and wasnt a one season wonder. Possibly that price tag and pressure of playing for United is being too much for him. He has shown glimpses of how good he can be but hasnt been consistent at all.
Simple Funda is. As a United fan you have 2 options. When the players dont perfrom well, either slag them and compare them with other players or back them.I prefer to back them. Some dont, its their choice
Lets just say that Berbatov and Tevez are different players and they are better in different areas.
The question is quite simple. Was Tevez worth 32 million in total? We have analyzed the heck out of Berba’s transfer fee and how he isn’t worth it. Was Tevez worth the money Joorabchian was asking? In my opinion, no. Especially when the club didn’t even have the money for him.
@Red Devil: Hope to see you article here soon. Please try to write up your article as simple as possible. I don’t really get all the technicalities.
Thanks mate.
Just like how the ABU’s are waiting for Fergie to retire,many United fans are also waiting for the Glazers to leave.
Antonio Valencia really is improving and impressing nearly every game.He was voted United’s player of the month for dec, second sucessive month after he also won it in november.First person to win it back to back in 18 months
Last person to win it back to back. A certain Carlos Tevez. Ouch!!!
Cant say I will be unhappy to ditch the Glazers.
No way in hell Rooney would be sold, I feel Berbatov, Nani, and some other fringe players would be sold.. that would cough up about 40 million. But Rooney? As long as Sir Alex is manager, he will never ever let Rooney go, Glazers know that. Ronaldo was sold because the fecker (he was marvelous to watch in football sense) didn’t love United.
I just hope that some rich ass billionaires will come in and buy United, Middle East, Jews – Rothschild, or even Chinese! Just don’t let our beloved United fall into deep shit! Maybe i’m just being too concerned about the amount of debt… =_=…
AIG mate…there’s a reason why
Riquelme,Okocha,Ortega,Denilson,Quaresma and Nani to an extent and other players with flair have never made it in the big club…they had flair, grace,dribbling,beauty,vision, everything, but their mentality kept them down…
mentality is what matters…flecther isn’t the most gifted player in the world but he has the mentality that pushes him forward, and the likes of berbatov and riquelme lack that.. give me hard work and dedication over talent any day,,,because talent without hard work is nothing and players with no talent who work hard are more likely to suceed than the players with talent who don’t work hard…see what gattuso’s hard work brought to him and compare that to riquelme and the likes…same can be said about park and quaresma/nani…although i like nani we can’t say he’s been as successfull as park
some players can be cathcing for the eye but some can be concrete – berbatov is certainly not concrete and he is massively overrated – he should have been brought for 10-15 million pounds as a back up striker – now we can’t sell him even if we wanted to…
furthermore – i think tevez would found his place in any team in the world, while berbatov couldn’t even get a sniff at barca’s,real’s,chelsea’s, because all those teams lack someone with tevez’s style and have loads of players with berbatov’s style who do the things he does, only better..maybe tevez wouldn’t be a starter for Real, for example, but he’d certainly win his spot and he’d play his fair share of games…on his day, he’s unplayable and it’s a very fine line between him and rooney..don’t get me wrong, rooney’s better but certainly not that better
CROoney
ok mate. I understand what you are trying to stay. But we must back Berbatov because he has the class to suceed at United. Lets hope the fans get behind him and it lifts his level of performances. Thats all we can do since he is a United player and as fans it is our duty to back him and help him overcome this mental block of his
AIG – that’s where our opinions go different ways – I never thought he had class for United…I was amoung the minority who saw his time at Spurs as nothing special..at the time , amybe i was wrong and maybe i was in minority, but trust me nate , there is no way he will have paid out …
We certainly didn’t back Djembax2 that much, nor forlan, nor veron or the likes… tbh, i think he’s a great man, a modest person with a right view on the things in life, but I do not want him here because he makes us worse…I want what’s best for United and by criticizing a player I’m not any less a fan that you are.. when a player puts sub standard performances for 90 percent of the almost 2 year spell then i’m sorry but you’r not up for it
he’s not a “great” player…he could never play for any of the massive clubs…why is he still here is beyond me…only to divide the fans…he’s not arsenal,chelsea,united,milan,inter,barca,real material…no one would want him and regardless of an occasional sexy move he lacks quality to succeed for the top level because all other teams have what he offers
CROoney
Ok. IF SAF thought he could succeed at United who are we to question him?. It hasnt exactly worked out that way and possibly wont but but there is always hope that the Rooney-Berbatov partnership will blossom at some stage.I personally thought when we got him that he was exactly the kind of player we needed. Good header of the ball, great first touch. good vision. However he drops to deep for my liking and i want to see him play more around the penalty area rather than dropping deep
Anyways, we will agree to disagree on this one.I will back him as long as he is at United to come good. I know you are a big United fan and criticizing a player dosent change that
just one more thing – for his height, he offers no areal threat whatsoever
cheers…hopefully he blossoms into something special but i somehow doubt it…especially with this monor operation looking to get go ahead
*minor
CROoney
yeah. That surprised me too. Scored lots of headed goals at Spurs and lot of headed through balls for Keane to latch on to. Hasnt happened so far.Lets hope it happens and he can prove us wrong.I also hope this operation thing isnt true. 2 months out will be big blow both to him and us as we arent going to buy anyone in jan
CHEERS!!!!
Tevez is shit, a money grabbing little twat who is having a rich run of form. And im not saying Berba is top class coz he hasnt proved shit at Utd but i am saying Tevez is over fucking rated!! Lets not forget he isnt that fucking good, shitty arent top of the league and he isnt the top goal scorer in the league either and more importantly he isnt our player anymore so lets stop going on about the little fuck head.
As for the Glazers, what the fuck is going on, the FA should bring out a new law which will force any shit owners to sell up straight away, they have the fit and proper persons law now before takeovers, well why not expand that to the fuckers that use (not just our club but other english clubs like portsmouth, fuck the scousers!!) to milk fucking millions and then fuck off and leave the club to die!! coz that is the only way we will get rid of them unless someone else comes along to buy us off the yank fuckers!!
Old Trafford’s fundamental problem yet to be tackled
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6984328.ece
Manchester United are courting investors with a bond issue but their problem remains the same: the club have too much debt
Analysis: Helen Power Business Correspondent
On paper, Manchester United’s bond issue looks like good news for the club and their supporters. However, United owe more than £500 million to international banks and those lenders have imposed a number of conditions that would make life difficult for the club if things get worse on the pitch.
The Glazers are notoriously secretive about the club’s finances, but The Times understands that United’s existing lenders have tied the club to a number of strict financial targets they must meet or face the banks taking over.
These include a provision that the club must make a profit of £65 million a year before interest payments. In 2009 they managed a profit of a little more than £90 million, but this was earned in a year when United made it to the final of the Champions League. A failure to qualify for Europe would knock tens of millions off profits.
But if the bond issue goes ahead, the club will not face financial tests unless they need to borrow more money or want to make big changes, such as developing the stadium. A bond issue will remove the risk of not meeting their targets and give them more choice about how they spend their profits.
Lots of other big companies — even the University of Cambridge — have switched from bank loans to bonds this year for this very reason.
The bond issue is almost certain to succeed. United’s advisers, JPMorgan and Deutsche Bank, started to market it in Hong Kong yesterday. Insiders said almost all the banks and financial institutions offered the bond have taken it up.
The club’s advisers are still negotiating over what rate of interest United will pay, but the final rate is likely to be about 9 per cent, slightly less than they are paying their banks at the moment. But the problem with the bond is that it does not address United’s fundamental problem: that the club have far too much debt.
The club borrowed £130 million from hedge funds using PIK notes in 2006. But because the PIKs attract a massive 14.5 per cent interest rate, the club owe £200 million on that loan today. And, by 2017, United will owe a whopping £588 million.
The club also said in their prospectus for bond investors that they will borrow a further £75 million from banks for “working capital” to provide a kitty for Sir Alex Ferguson to buy new players. Which sounds like good news for fans. But if that money is used, United’s debt will soar to a whopping £787 million, storing up more trouble for the future.
Will bond sale push Manchester United out of the red?
By IAN LYALL City News Editor
Last updated at 1:27 AM on 12th January 2010
New figures released yesterday revealed that Manchester United are plunging towards the financial abyss. United’s owners, the Glazer family, have resorted to a £500m bonds scheme in a bid to restructure the club’s debt. How will it affect Sir Alex Ferguson and his Old Trafford team? The Daily Mail’s City News Editor, Ian Lyall, reveals all.
Money to spend?
Wayne Rooney could be joined at United by new signings as the club has negotiated a new credit facility that can be used to fund buys
What is a bond?
It is a way of borrowing money. But instead of taking out a mortgage, David Gill, the Manchester United chief executive, and club owner Malcolm Glazer have decided to tap the money markets for cash.
Still none the wiser?
OK. Bonds operate in much the same way as shares. The club will issue them and receive cash in exchange – £500million to be precise.
Like shares, the debt can be bought and sold after it is issued. Unlike shares, bonds must be repaid.
In United’s case the term of the loan is seven years and the bonds are secured against club assets such as Old Trafford and the Carrington training ground. It is an expensive IOU.
Can I buy a bond?
You will need deep pockets. The minimum subscription is likely to be £50,000.
But the club’s City advisers will not be counting on fans to bankroll the business. The loans will be sold to professional investors and other banks, who will receive a hefty rate of interest annually, possibly as much as 8.5 per cent.
Bankers have already begun to drum up support for the bond in Asia and will follow this up in Europe and the US.
Why are the club doing this?
When the Glazers took control at Old Trafford in 2005, they did so by borrowing heavily. Today, United’s debts are thought to stand at more than £700m.
This has saddled the club with an annual interest bill of £42m, which would have wiped out the company’s profits had it not been for the £80m sale of Cristiano Ronaldo.
Are United being used to pay for the Glazers’ excesses?
Well, the bond issue will not significantly reduce the amount the club pay out in interest.
However, it gives the Glazers more financial flexibility to pay themselves a decent dividend from the club’s cashflow.
It also frees them to pay off £202m debt that carried a punitive 14.25 per cent rate of interest.
Any reason to be afraid?
It would certainly be a worry if the Glazers fail to drum up support for the bond, but this might hasten their departure from Old Trafford.
Does Fergie have £60million to spend on players?
It would appear so. As part of the announcements United revealed they had signed a revolving credit facility (overdraft) worth £75m, which can be used for transfers.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1242417/Will-bond-sale-push-Manchester-United-red.html#ixzz0cOJHOWIl
nice one for the invite mate
why the fuck do y’all think berba and roo drops so deep? to help our advantage midfield.. our strikers dont get enough support, and berba cant just stay around the penalty area.. he needs to give the creative spark,, therefor he doesnt score as much, and therefor every low-brow call him a flop.. we need a new left winger at least, to give the extra spark to our midfield..
Please excuse my ignorance and poor understanding on this topic but can someone just answer these questions for me in short
1. Is this bond scheme good or bad for United?
2. Does this mean our debt will reduce?. If yes will it reduce quickly or will it take time?
3. Are there any potential buyers intrested in buying the club?
4. Does SAF have money to spend?
5.Do we need to sell our top players to raise cash, i mean sell before we buy?
6.Will it have any impact on the image of the club all over the world?
BerbaGod – funny how an average non-creative midfield doesn’t mind rooney…in fact , look at city midfield….hardly creative is it ?
@ Aig alex is god
Have answered those questions in a detailed 5 page write-up and analysis of the situation. Was too long to have posted it here and hence have sent a mail to admin@therepublikofmancunia.com
maybe Scott will decide to edit it or something and hopefully post it for the benefit of everybody here
Red Devil
Hope Scott posts it then because i cant make a head or tail of it. Infact I am getting confused reading the newspapers because everyone is reporting something different.I need it to be explained in simple words.
well there is a reason why fergie is using berba as he does.. the idealistic has been if he could just be around the penalty area as most people know he is a deadly finisher and be fed with chance after chance.. like owen is trying to do.. but our strikers need to create chances as well as finish them off.. owen has somehow gone missing when he has played, right..
CRooney – The last time you were on here was weeks ago. Now after the Judas scores a hat trick you come back to say “I told you so”. Very strange behaviour for a United fan. Gloating almost.
aig – Hi mate. “Everyone is reporting something different ” my friend because nobody except people behind the scenes at United really have a fucking clue!
And Crooney
to answer your question about city.. who gives a damn about them anyways.. i dont know how city operates, i havent seen a city match in a long time.. i dont give a fuck about city.. Yes, maybe tevez is doing all right, but he did not last season.. he had 4 goals at this time last year.. what does that tell you, oh great city and tevez fan.
Morning all – On the subject like a few have suggested none of us really know the real issue and what actually is happening in the boardroom,
One thing we can do is rally behind the people who are dedicating time to look into this on a full time basis.
This article is on the MUST website, the website is free to join but if you pay a measly £10 to become a full member it helps fund the organisation. If you are seriuos in helping the people who can be our voice then join must – Manchester United Supporters Trust. Lets get behind them http://www.joinmust.org.
Did anyone hear that gloating abu cunt Jon Champion last night say after the Judas’s third goal “He looks much better in the blue of Manchester than the red”. Get fucked.
@Scott the Red: Please post Red Devil’s article. Most of us need to understand what the hell is happening with all the bonds and sh!t. Please =(
Don’t know whether to laugh or cry with the ‘financial reporting’ in the press today – how can anyone take what is written seriously when the writers are clearly just speculating based on what they have found in the financial reports.. so don’t make judgments based on theses reports people – know that people writing this have their own agendas and are following that..
BerbaGod – idiot ! what does the season before last tell you, you moron ?
in fact even in his last season he was better than your missus
King Eric – oh I am gloating – i feckin adore the player – i would like him to score a hattrick in every match till te end of the season and that city lose those matches
i can’t believe some of the idiots – the best argument he has is ” Yes, maybe tevez is doing all right, but he did not last season.. he had 4 goals at this time last year.. what does that tell you, oh great city and tevez fan.”
what does that tell me, please enlighten me ?!
moron
strange.. I find it funny how people are going on about Tevez this and that.. I’m no huge fan of him but I will take Berbatov 100% of the time – the guy chose to sign for us when he could have gone elsewhere, whereas the little prick went to City when he could have gone elsewhere… support the team people, don’t be idiots… remember where you came from
I hope Scott the Red bans you off of here CROoney. This bile and childish nonsense is not for RoM. Take your gibberish elsewhere.
as people are on the subject, if we played against a team as open as Blackburn played, we would have had a field day too, wait till teams park the bus – see how me tevez does then, I don’t remember him setting the world on fire here
CROoney
Join the club – would rather have a headless argie chicken than a lazy bulgarian carthorse every day of the week.
Sorry to all the berbatov fans, but it’s getting ridiculous. Seriously, when has Berbatov changed a game – when has he last put in a 9/10 performance?
I’m speaking my mind here, and who likes it likes it, who doesn’t doesn’t.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck if Berbatov needs an operation on his knee – no excuse.
He’s not a creative midfielder so fuck his silky skills and vision, he’s a fucking striker. Who can’t shoot. Or run. Or give a shit about the club.
The bottom line is this – Tevez’s appearances last season largely came from the bench, unless he was used in a ‘meaningless’ game in the league cup or dead rubber European match.
He managed five goals in the league last season. How many has Berbatov managed so far?
Tevez scored 15 last season, Berbatov 14.
Tevez has scored 15 so far this season. Berbatov FIVE. Fucking disgrace. Valencia and Owen who has hardly played have scored more.
So let Berba fuck off to a smaller club where he isn’t under pressure.
I’m delighted to see Tevez do so well, even though it pains me to see him doing well for a pack of bastards whose main reason for signing him was to get one over on us.
Yes, he went for the money. Yes, he lied and whinged like fuck. But be honest – you would too if you were being overlooked for a Bulgarian Stephen Hawking.
And before anyone tells me to fuck off and support City, or tell me how they would never turn on one of their own, remember these two words.
Luis Nani.
crooney
my point is, the strikers has to create chances at united.. in city they finish them off.. tevez had to last year, he was terrible at it and only got 5 goals all season.. do you think it is just a coincidence that tevez had 4 goals last season and 11 now? do you think it is a coincidence that berba had 23 goals in 2 seasons at spurs and has reduced his tally when he came here to 10-14 goals?
islandred
please get your facts right.. tevez has 12 goals, berba has 6– 15 and 5 goals is a bit harsh – eh? just turn it up a little here and down a little there to bolster your argument?
go and support city if you don’t want to give benefit of doubt to half inured player – people with that attitude don’t deserve United – sorry if that sounds harsh
Tony Starks – well obvisouly because you either have no clue or didnt see what he did with rooney and ronaldo up front
BerbaGod – tevez last season scored 15, not 4 you ignorant…why concentrating on EPL only ?he was in a bad state of mind, misused and when he finally picked himself up, he started banging…fuck the last season…
and tevez has scored 15 ! you know, football is not played only in the EPL! ask berbatov, he knows ! it’s been a year since he scored in the CL
We did try to sign Tevez but he choice to leave and go the council house, also the money they were asking was simply stupid as he really is a poor mans Rooney. Sticking with Berba was the logical thing to do, his hight and touch with Rooney effort and desire was on paper a great match and Roney has been our best player, simply Berba is off form and that is the issue. Carlos for us was rotated and £30-£40m in a all round package was way, way too much money for him especailly as we are skint.
“The very worst thing our supporters can do now, is turn their energy into a negative, renewed anti-Glazer campaign. Particularly if it involves demonstrations, before or during games.
Do we really want a Russian Oligarch, a random Sheikh, or a Chinese consortium to come in and chuck money at the club, purely to satisy their egos? I for one say no thanks. The present owners are in this to make money, that much is certain. However, the basis for a football club to generate money, is primarily through success on the pitch, right?”
A little bit ironic really. Everybody wants the Glazers out but don’t want some billionaire Sheikh or consortium to buy the club. The only way the club is going to be sold is if one of these unwanted people or groups do come in and buy it. Also, of course they are in it to make money, anybody who was interested in buying it would of been. You don’t spend over $1bn for the love of the club.
I just hope to god that this £75m overdraft is true and we make use of it. If it means we don’t have to sell key players and can keep us consistently at the top then I think it needs to be done.
BerbaGod
Actually, my facts are correct!!!
Berbatov has scored against Wigan (twice), Hull, Blackburn and Sunderland.
Tevez had 12 goals before last night. He now has 15.
Tony Stark,
I respect your opinion, fair enough but as a United supporter of more than 25 years, and witnessed several players prepared to run through walls for the club…
I’ve given the benefit of the doubt to Berbatov for more than a year now. Was he injured when he took his penalty in the FA Cup semi last season?
No.
Nani isn’t getting the benefit of the doubt, Kuszack didn’t either. Foster isn’t. Tosic isn’t. Owen isn’t getting a chance anymore.
I just don’t see value for money with Berbatov. I thought I did, when he played for Spurs, but I’m sorry, he’s not what people want him to be.
in all honesty, all players are mercenaries—why do you think they fight for their contracts so much?!ask rio ! he didn’t want to sign because he wanted more money !
everyone will joing anyone if the price is right ! they’re not fans. and in fact i bet that each and every one of you would chose ensurance for you and your family than bench warming for a player completely inferior to you
honesty ? there’s no such a thing these days
Anyone who loves Tevez can go and support Man City. I love what he did for us, but I don’t love him. I never have ever since he tried to divide us during our quest for the 18th title. No matter what his contributions were, he wasn’t going to be a United player after the summer of 2009. Why is it so hard for some people? And why do they have to bring Berbatov into this? Lets start comparing Valencia and Ronaldo while we are at it.
Tevez scored a hat trick against Blackburn. Allow me to go and crap my pants out of fear. It’s not like he did the same things playing with our reserve team last year. Oh wait…
The only thing that would get rid of the Glazer’s is if the club really started losing money and were unable to pay the interest they’ve loaded on us. For this to happen we would have to have a season or two of mediocrity, no trophies, and maybe a 5th place finish.
Then we’d get some rich Arabs just like the Muppets. How depressing is that?
I love Fergie but he’s really tarnishing his legacy with his support for these bstd Yanks.
Berba hasn’t settles at United but he shows some great flashes of genius, the club looks too big for him and anyone who still loves Tevez would they still if he scored against us and ran to the the manager celebrating as he said he would?? I support my club not and player comes before that, especially one playing for City.
Actually, wrong about Berbatov
It is 6!
I dont fully understand all the arguments on here and feel Im not adequately knowledgeable about the situation. However there are a few things I do understand. For all you idiots out there who think that if you sell Ronaldo for 80 million pounds then you suddenly have 80 million pounds to play with in the transfer market are naive and only show your utter ignorance. If a company buys a product, they pay a tax on a product, when the player is sold they get back some (sometimes all) of the tax back, they also have to pay a winnings tax, that on the profit from buying and selling of the product. In the calculations that were offered up for the publics amusal the profits were pre tax, so for the Ronaldo sale the returning tax wasnt taken into account.
Another point is if the Glazers were to go bankrupt then no matter whether the debts are written in the Glazers name or in Manchester United name, Manchester United is an asset of the Glazers and would be stripped. So putting the debts in Uniteds name or the Glazers name doesnt really matter. Another football team tried to use holding companies and the court overalled the decision and they went into liquidation. I dont remember the club name only that it was about 6 months ago (poss Southampton??).
Another thing I find remarkable is that many have said that Berbatov is a poor signing, that is an opinion, not mine (although the money was rediculous) but to offer up a possible “what we could of done with the money” list of players was laughable at best – Lennon, Palacious and Krankjar. You sir are an idiot.
Im not defending the Glazers but would like all of you out there to have a balanced view and not just echo the sentiments of the masses, we arent sheep (thats Leeds). The Glazers arent particularly good for us but realistically which individual investor is. People mention rich Russian oilgarcs and Rich Arabs, I’d like to mention that NON of them have bought a club of Uniteds size, I really do not think that Chelsea or City cost their respective owners 3/4 billion pounds. Both clubs make rediculous loses which all hit the pocket of their owners. Abramovic of late has started to curb the spending and even so far hasnt dipped his hand in his pocket despite a massive transfer imbargo. The Arabs at City have written off loans that City made to by players, a soft gesture in my eyes. If the Arabs were to go bankrupt, City is their property and would be stripped, with somewhat amusing results.
A simple thing would be for someone in the know and represent United supporters in a proper way and try and get together promises of loans from fans. ONCE and only ONCE we dish up the cash have we any right to criticize how others spend theres. No one has the money to buy United not even Abromavich (he weighed up the idea).
Hands in pockets please.
Oh I am glad I am defending a united player and not a city player.
you are looking for all kinds of excuses for why tevez didnt score more than 5 goals in 30 apps last season, but you are not searching for any excuse of why berba has only 6 goals in 17 apps so far this season
EPL is the most important thing you know.. tevez had 14 epl goals in 34 apps in his first season, not bad, not bad.. not breathtaking anyways.
about your cl comment,
berba has 1 starts in CL this year.. maybe due to injury, i dont recall..last year boss prefered ronaldo in europe.. i dont think he prefered tevez.. or maybe he did but thats because EPL>CL and he used berba in the premier league.. He did start tevez in league cup where he blossomed and got 6 goals with a lot of youngsters but EPL>>LC..
Lads. Just get a grip
Have said this time and again but i repeat it. Tevez is no longer at United. lets not talk about him or compare him with anyone.Berbatov is at United. lets back him and hope he comes good. Anyone United fan who likes Tevez, fair enough but i assume you are United supporters, do you love him more than United?. i think not and from United’s point of view it would be better if we backed our players rather than going against them.
It becomes pathetic that after every bad result or every defeat a few players namely park and Berbatov are singled out. Berbatov was being slagged even on saturday after the brum game. Hell he wasnt even in the squad.Lets get behindour team rather than having a go at some players. Who knows?. it may help.
its not that hard to score 3 vs. blackburn if you saw how they defend..
Considering Tevez didn’t have any pre-season training, because he too was injured, 15 goals isn’t bad for a headless chicken.
And by saying he’s coming off the bench in games, well that isn’t an excuse, it’s a fact!
Berbatov might be injured, I accept that.
But his injuries can’t be used to describe a lot of his performances from last season too.
A lot of fans are slowly running out of patience with Berbatov – and he’s hardly doing anything to prove them otherwise.
I am sorry the table of accounts didnt come out properly, some problem with the formatting getting changed while pasting…
I also apologize for the article being ridiculously long, but I think every point is being discussed and explained in detail in the simplest possible words…so I hope it settles a few queries!
Thanks!
@aig alex is god
For how long – I’ve given Berbatov the benefit of the doubt – like a lot of fans for more than a year now.
I’m busting for him to be a success, because it will only benefit United and
when he’s on form, he’s outstanding. But when is that?
Nani gets vilified, Kuszack got it/still does, and Foster gets it.
But (until van der Sar’s injury and family problems) when did these players get the opportunities Berbatov does?
Whatever the deal with Nani, injured or not, or whether or not he’s not playing due to the possibility of getting injured, which would prevent United selling him, he’s not getting a chance.
Leeds FA Cup game – the young lads came in and fair enough, were awful but they were torn apart unjustly by some people.
They too, haven’t had as much of a chance to impress than Berbatov
islandred
“And by saying he’s coming off the bench in games, well that isn’t an excuse, it’s a fact!”
yes it is,
“he was in a bad state of mind, misused and when he finally picked himself up, he started banging…fuck the last season…”
is not.
he came off the bench 11 times all season last season.. whereas berba has done 5 times so far this season.. not too different is it?
Comparing the goal tallies of Berbatov and Tevez is unfounded for another reason. Berbatov spends most of his game outsode the penalty box. I think it’s better to compare Tevez with the striker that did replace him in the summer. Michael Owen. So far this season,
Owen has averaged 1 goal every 138 minutes
Tevez has averaged 1 goal every 130 minutes
I don’t see much difference. Granted Tevez has played twice as much as Owen, but you get an idea.
Berbagod,
Look, thankfully everyone has different opinions – good or bad.
I’m not falling out with you over it, just expressing my frustrations in that, for £30m, Berbatov hasn’t looked the part.
Totally different player at Spurs.
For the best part of a year, he’s been awful at United.
And I don’t see the difference between him being criticised, and other players who aren’t fan favourites.
He is the player we brought in to make a difference to the team – one to look for for a moment of inspiration or crucial goal.
It’s happened at least 8 times in a year and a half.
And for all his injury problems this season, if he would shoot, maybe he’d score more.
islandred
Yes, you are not the only one. Even we are running out of patience and i am sure Berba knows himself he is running out of time and he is trying., Its just not coming off for him. He definitely is good enough to suceed at United, there is and should not be any doubt about that. Yes he is getting enough games and has done well in certain games dragging us out trouble. He was excellent against Wolfsburg, blackburn and that goal against Sunderland. The problem is he has to do this more often and improve on his consistency.I just hope he does well and will become more consistent. There is no other way rather than keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best
Altonian, i’m not sure if the likes of Abramovic or Mansour (as outright owners) or Perez (as El Presidente) are at all concerned about generating profit through a viable business model. It really is all about feeding an ego and for all sorts of different reasons this can go wrong.
Take the mighty City for example, they are constantly referred to as a “project” by their new owners. Not a club, not a team, a project. This implies a shelf life. If they don’t win a trophy or two in the next few years, the current owners will be out and onto their next project. Where will this leave them?
On a smaller scale, look at the fool who took control of Portsmouth, only to find he didn’t have the financial clout to pay wages, let alone anything else. But look at how he enjoyed the media attention (particularly back in his home country) and crowd cheering, while it lasted. They will probably go into administration before the season ends.
Even further down the scale in our country, look at the guy at Watford, who recently took his ball (£investment) home with him and was hours away from bankrupting the club in the process. Nice guy.
And Mike Ashley (another ego to feed) at Newcastle. Enough said!
Btw, to Rooney The New King: I wasn’t saying our success was down to the Glazers. But SAF himself has on several occasions come out in support of the owners and the way that they have supported him. He doesn’t have to say that – he is SAF and there is no higher authority, right?
And to BBWesleyBrown: I’m certainly not a Glazerboy and I held onto to my United stock until the bitter end. Your post did make me laugh though, so thanks for that.
Right, I’m off back to Florida to report back to Uncle Malcolm and the clan
Keep the faith. Great blog btw.
@rooney the new king
Its hardly inspite of the Glazers. The Glazers have generally been good owners, they have let the football people at the club run the football side rather than stick their nose into everything from signings to team selection and they have invested in players.
As Paul H and myself have said they look like Angels compared to the majority of owners out there. And it seems that most united fans want to treat them like idiots, they aren’t idiots no matter how much some people want to make out they are. They are businessmen and business men who have generally been successful. Yes they have added debt into the club but all they have done is employ modern business practices into the club which sees many top business ‘run in debt’ and its not in their interest as businessmen to run the club into the ground. The debts are structured and their future profits as with any football club rely on success so they are not going to carry out firesales or stop us buying players that Fergie feels are worthwhile.
Costas – he also scored against chelsea, arsenal and had an assist against us…tevez will score no matter who’s against him,,,,berbatov won’t…at least not as consistant as tevez
@BrisbaneRed
Actually the larger debt if the Glazers sold would still be in the club, it would just be the PIK’s that are attached to the Glazers themselves. Why do you think that when theres a takeover of any business you will often see it reported that the first thing the new owners do is pay off the existing debt in the business.
The chances are as well the majority of people who would buy the club would leave the debt in place as debt isn’t actually a ‘bad’ thing in business. Infact the kind of owners we would want (and not some rich suger daddy type of people who are only bothered about having a new play thing) would maybe even increase the debt
Wakey what a stupid comment. Glazers have fucked our club, we went from being in no debt to £700 million . How is that good business practice? Ask anyone it isn’t. They borrowed 2/3 of the clubs value in order to purchase us. Again another huge risk. We have been succesful and the transfers of 2007 when we swiftly signed Nani and Anderson shows that a Ltd company is better than a plc. However I’d rather we be a plc with no debt than a Ltd with £700 million worth. GLAZERS OUT chants every match, we’re a football club and we need to start telling these owners that we don’t want them here. I know its wishful thinking but the above comment reminds me of some of plastic fans at OT. We need Glazers out chants at Old Trafford! Its time to make our voices heard on the pitch. Even if 15 minutes of it at half time. They have driven out the hardcore fans and allowed plastics in like above. Makes me sick!
@CROoney
Berbatov has scored more than once against Chelsea, Arsenal and Man United in Tottenham colours. His goalscoring tally was impressive at Spurs and it would have been at Man City if they bought him last summer. But I will reiterate that it’s hard to compare their goalscoring exploits when Berba plays outside the box for most of the games.
Costas – it doesn’t matter what he did with spurs… riquelme was class with villareal also
Nice one Red Devil.
Good to see a reasoned and BALANCED argument based on your working knowledge and facts rater than the ramblings of a few mates down the local.
I am however slightly more optimistic, you dont seem confident of marquee signings, I have to hang on to hope because in the cold of the swedish winter nothing else gives me a warm feeling like a good United signing. Oh well guess we’ll see.
Maybe you could enlighten me as to why the Ronaldo transfer was put in the report anyway as the transfer was supposed to be from July 1st not 30th July (transfer window garbage). Probably not that big a deal (ho ho) but would non the less like an explanation.
For the others out there I put this across not so long ago and never got a single answer. IF united had 100 million to spend, who is the player that would replace Ronaldo. Due to rules governing players cant be at three clubs in the same year that rules out Kaka, Ibrahimovich, Etto and why would Messi, Xavi and Iienesta (spelling sorry) want to leave Barca. If you cant come up with anyone then what the hell is the fuss about the Glazers using the money to pay off loans/debts. It would be silly to have mountains of cash sitting around while your accumulating bucket fulls of Interest on Loans taken out.
sorry it meant to read 1st July not the 30th JUNE.
Man I wish there was another game soon so that we could have something else to talk about!!!
@CRooney
Then why did you tell me what Tevez is doing with City? There is no way Tevez was going to stay at United, play 1954 minutes and get 15 goals. We don’t work like that. Teams don’t park the bus with City the way they do with us.
I mentioned Berba at Spurs, because like Tevez at City, he is performing better for a smaller team than he did at United. That’s not something unusual. Forlan, Veron and Sheringham were more talismatic for their other teams than they were for United.
The whole Berbatov deate is getting ridiculous – We all have our view points and opinions.
People say you cant compare to Tevez but of course we can Tevez played for us and has notched 15 goals this year. He is the best person to compare against as it is him who Berba has replaced.
Berbatov is obviously a world class player hence why we bought him, he was great for spurs and I for one was made up, 30 mil or not.
The issue is that he has just not fitted in to date and as such will get the flak as he is ( should be) a marqee player for us.
I feel the situation is like when we bought Veron, i thought he was the answer. A world class player but just not for United.
I would love Berba to succeed but we cant be blind or insult others opinions becuase they are frustrated with him, I am sure SAF equally is.
@giggs11gerrard0
I won’t be the judge of whether Berbatov has been a hit or a miss for us. I can understand though why people would be frustrated with him.
But you can’t compare Berbatov of 09-10 to Tevez of 09-10. They don’t play at the same club, they don’t play in the same position and they don’t get the same goalscoring opportunities. Tevez has 15 goals by January, something that he never did for us. That’s because he is a big fish in a small pond. And Berbatov didn’t replace Tevez. Owen did.
@aig alex is god
“Worse still considering we made profit last year due to the Ronaldo sale if we dont anything this season( there is a high chance of that happening) we are going to record massive losses this year”
The accounts are the holdomh companies accounts not the ‘clubs’ These same accounts had us make a 21mill loss last year but the clubs profit was 80mill. Infact I believe I may be right in saying that the holding companies made a loss EVERY year.
Oh and players will leave in the summer, its a guarentee due to the new League rules. Like the Champions league squad sizes will be limited for over 21′s so a few players will need shipped out as they won’t be named in the squad and if we buy new players further players will have to leave. Rooney won’t be one of these players and Vidic imho will only be if he pushes to leave.
RE Tevez.
The club isn’t to blame really. Just look at all the lies he told over the situation. United told him everything would be sorted at the end of the season and he then proceceeded to spend 8 months spout shit left right and centre. Admittedly some of that is almost certainly down to Kia, after all the fact he has admitted that he can’t speak or understand a word of English means that almost everything would have to go through Kia who no doubt lied as he got alot more money by sending him to City
@Costas
Ofc they took Management Fees out of the club. Again its standard business practice. Even the loans aren’t exactly unusual. For any other company it would be ignored and the debt wouldn’t even be bothered about but as its a football club and Manachester United at that its an easy story for the Media to stir up
@aig alex is god
1. Yes
2. Not really, will reduce intrest payments. Theres 70mill that can be used to reduce the PIK’s but these are Glazier debts anyway
3. Almost certainly, not sure those that would are the owners we as fans want though
4. IMHO yes. Its easy to say that the lack of big signings there isn’t BUT I put that dopwn to the simple fact that with the Sugar Daddys spending stupid amounts only other Sugar Daddys can compete. We aren’t badly off but we do have to be a little smarter than City/Real/Chelsea
5. We do need to sell players before we buy really but thats more to do with the Premier League rules
6. No
Costas I am personally not comaparing them for two reasons A) I despise the little rat and B) I dont feel we need to as he has moved on and so have we.
My argument was others are more than able to compare the two, they both play in the same position and both played for us last year and it was either one or the other to partner Rooney.
The argument about goal scoring opportunities is flawed and in my opinion totally irrelevant.
Berba has had plenty of opportunities to score, he is a very intelligent player so knows where he needs to be but not yet prolific.
Owen was brought in on a chance, he clearly has no future at OT as at 1-1 on Birmingham chasing the game for a win we brought on a debutant instead!
Costas – lol, now tevez is a big fish in the small pond regardless of the fact that whenever he played including some big clubs ( including us ) he showed class
he was class with us . scored more important goals in his first season, never mind the second, then berabtov will in 5 if fergie keeps playing him !
i asked when we bought berbatov -. why fixing if it aint broken! people on here can’t differenciate tevez as a person from tevez as a player
Also i personally feel there is no such thing as a big fish in a little pond? You are either scoring goals or you are not!
To reiterate I am glad Tevez left, I desperately want Berba to be a hit but can you honestly say if another team came in and offered 20 million for him what do you think the answer would be?
We sold Seba at half price to the rent boys!
@ GoatinaUnitedShirtTryingtoExplaintotheMasses
The thing about the Ronaldo transfer is that the players registration was to be transferred to Real Madrid on July the 1st, but the financial transaction was booked in this financial year itself because of covenant reasons and to make the books look good. Generally what happens under the Terms of agreement for large loans, is that banks put covenant restrictions on the borrower, such as the borrower must display adequate levels of EBITDA, maintain a certain EBITDA multiple, cash flow restrictions etc. Hence by including the Ronaldo transfer in this years accounts, the covenants can be met.
@Wakey
Did the management fees have to be this high? The sum is what stunned me more. Also, there was a report that if the bond goes through, it will free up 114million of the club’s money. 70 million of that money will either go to transfers or to the PIKs. I would like to think that it’s the former, but I am not that optimistic.
About Tevez. I have to be fair here. David Gill and Sir Alex made comments throughout the season that his contract would get sorted soon. It reminded me of Hargo’s injury. It went from September, to November, to December and then to the end of the season. Tevez and the fans did get lied to during the season. However, that still doesn’t excuse some of the things that happened last May. I still get sick whenever I remember fans chanting for Tevez over Sir Alex’s OT address.
@NotoriousRedDevil
Its only a stupid comment if you are unable to grasp the complexities of business. The simple facts are that the Glaziers had the assets to be able to buy the club outright BUT cashing in those assets would have not only have seen them sell for less than they were actually worth as they would have needed quick sales BUT the income these other assets were bringing in EXCEEDED the amount the interest rates on the loans would cost.
The simple fact is alot of companies that make big profits actually run with a large amount of debt in the company
@Costas
13mill in 3 years isn’t really that high and is the only ‘Payment’ they have apparently taken (The 10mill loan after all isn’t really a payment)
I may be wrong but its less that the Dividend payment when we were a PLC isn’t it?
And I’m sure the amount to take was an accounting decision and would have been decided based on what was the best figure all round.
@giggs11gerrard0
In my opinion there is such thing as a big fish in a small pond. Just look at Forlan pre and post United. He scored more freely in Uruguay and in Spain. But he was intimidated at a big club like United. Berbatov had the same thing happen to him. Granted, there are some players who score no matter what club they are in. Andy Cole and Ruud for example. But others just can’t do it at a very large stage.
The reason I said Berba doesn’t get as many opportunities, is because he doesn’t play as high up the pitch as Tevez does. That’s something that I attribute to Ferguson’s tactics and unfortunately he has made up his mind.
I mentioned Owen because from the way the events happened, he came in Tevez’s place. But if we compare 07-08 to 08-09, then truly Berba replaced Tevez. Oh and I agree with you. if a 20million pound offer came for Berba now, we would bite that hand off.
@CRooney
Trust me. I can totally tell the two apart. And I have gone on record and said that someone like Tevez fits better with Wayne than Berba. But that doesn’t mean that one is class and the other is a flop. Berbatov has shown glimpses of being a class player at Manchester UNited too. What he lacks is consistency.
They are both class on their own way. Don’t take “big fish in small pond” the wrong way. Berbatov was the same thing at Spurs and Leverkusen. What I meant, was that it’s easier to perform at those clubs than United.
@Costa
Oh and on the 70mill, I would expect they will put it towards the PIK’s as it makes more sense in the long run.
Also the transfer market in England will change a fair bit after this season with the Premier league’s new rules. I suspect that with the money we have already to spend, plus the few players we will have to get rid of as we have more over 21 players than we will be allowed to register (let alone if we buy anyone) we should be able to make any key signings that Fergie things are worth it
@Wakey
Fair enough. I don’t want to throw wrong accusations around. Just asking questions. The last few days a lot of different sums have been mentioned and it’s hard to make sense of all this. I honestly don’t know how things worked while we were a PLC. I just feel that United were better off as one. It’s true that we might not have been as competitive as we have been, but we wouldn’t have this debt to deal with. Of course, if it wasn’t the Glazers, it would have been someone else…
@Wakey
Thanks mate. Makes things even more simple as you have explained your answers.I guess its not all doomed as some of the newspapers are making it out to be..
as for the tevez thing just felt things could have been better handled by our side. Not that it justifies Tevez’s behaviour by any means. As is said earlier though, he isnt at United so we should not compare him with Berbatov or discuss at length about him.however some people just dont seem to get that
Fair play Costas I appreciate what you are saying mate, I would argue about Forlan as it is different leagues where as Tevez isnt, it is the same teams we are playing against and Tevez did not find United too big for him, he lived up to it in many ways and although we despise him now we didnt back then.
Berba has definately froze on the United stage for what ever reason? My reasoning would be, I feel Berba is a world class player but he does not look world class at United, he could go to Barca and look like a genious but sometimes it just doesnt happen for a player. I feel this is a marriage that is not going to happen like i referenced earlier just like Veron.
I said it the other day I would love to see a fit and healthy Louis Saha like back it 06/07. Perfect marriage for Rooney. He needs someone to play right up top so Roo can do what he does best, play in the hole, hard to mark, track back, collect off midfield, and make things happen.
I predict we will see a lot more 4-5-1 this season.
@giggs11gerrard0
Same here mate. How we could have done with a healthy Louis even at 31. I think he fit with Rooney even more than Ruud, because out style was more diverse.
Assuming that Berba is out of the picture due to his knee op, I wonder where that leaves us. In the summer, I wasn’t a fan of Owen, but I actually think that he hasn’t started many games. Fergie will probably continue using 4-5-1 away(and it works if we start with Giggs instead of Ji), but we have to give more effort to the Rooney-Owen partnership. Fergie thinks that they are similar because they lead the attacks, but in my opinion, Rooney is best utilised like you said. Give them time Fergie!
The whole problem with this situ is that i don’t think any fan can really piece together/ make sense of more than 70% of this debt equalling to much confusion, therefore confusion=panic.
Now economics is not my forte, but from what i can gather from the papers today/yesterday utd currently have a debt of around £700m which is rising every yr due to the huge interest payments that have to be paid on the current loans taken out by the glazers. As things stand utd have to completely clear all their debts (i’m guessing including interest) by 2017, the majority of that being paid between 2013-2016 or by the sounds of things there will be consequences (ie… the banks taking over the club, fifa/fa taking action against us if they hadn’t already). What the bonds seem to aim to do is to pay off part (i think around 50-75%) of the loans that we currently have (i’m guessing specifically the loans that have particularly high interest the worst being around 14.25% i think) and replace them with many investor loans (the bonds?) who in turn gets paid x amount of the clubs profit/ x amount of interest (some papers suggest a exchanged interest rate of around £8.5m). The reason why these bonds may work is that the club world have to pay less interest each yr than some of the clubs current high interest loans require currently (debt savings per year on some current loans of about 5% (providing i have understood all the paper talk so don’t quote me on this) equalling to paying around £12.5-15m less interest each yr in theory). In theory sounds good, but the 2 major problems with this ‘solution’ to our debt is that the date that we have have to pay back the debt (incl the bonds) would most likely be much later than the original 2017 date, equalling being in a debt situ for longer and paying more years of interest as a result, so utd would probably be paying off the same amount of debt as they are now, they’d just have longer to do so (relieves pressure of the glazers but stresses out the fans for longer. Also potental investors of the bonds may not take/believe that the bonds will pay off for them on the whole, so the bonds may not even be an option to clear debt. Also as someone on here has already mentioned, the bonds would be put in utds name, not the glazers name so if something was to go wrong it’s technically our mess, not theirs and i can’t see them staying on the ship if it’s sinking at some point.
The major problem is that utd realistically doesn’t have 7 yrs (till 2017) to rid themselves of debt as from potentally from this summer onwards the club and the fans may have to start paying a pretty hefty cost (some may argue that we already have with ronaldo and tevez leaving in the summer). The only thing that may slow down the whole sinking process is continuing winning the major titles so that the club keep on attracting new fans (= more income) and new football talent (= more titles hopefully). Unfortunately for us as man city, real madrid and barca proved over the summer players nowadays don’t value loyality (from themselves for from their current/future club towards them) and when looking for the perfect club will value above all else receiving as high a paycheck as possible (aka the tevez theory) and if possible a club with as much glitter (cups/titles won, both in recent yrs and amount won overall in all the yrs of football comps) in its history as possible (aka the ronaldo theory) – those 2 factors proving why the 3 clubs mentioned above are currently more popular options for the majority of footballers. Problem is that because of the debt, utd can’t offer the same silly wages that city do and in madrids case it will take several yrs for utd (or any other team) to gain the same amount of european titles as madrid and milan for that matter and for all other clubs including ourselves to stop both of those clubs from winning anymore cl titles so one or more of all other clubs (hopefully utd) can play catchup. Untill that day madrid especially only have to wave their trump card of 9 euro title (and though they shouldn’t really brag too loudly as most were won 50 odd yrs ago but we all know that football players are like magpies but several 50 yr old diamonds are still diamonds & hold their value so magpies don’t care about age but about amount) and the top players come running to them leaving less proven talent for the rest of the big clubs. And that situ will only get worse if madrid end up winning the cl as they would of proved that writing blank of silly money, bullying clubs and unsettling players and bragging at any given opportunity how great they are and who’s players they are going to succeed in hypnotizing & buying next gets rewarded and they will just get worse and we’ve already seen this season who much damage madrid’s wheelings and dealings can do to the big clubs, especially us and liverpool this season (wouldn’t be surprized if their master plan was too buy all the big clubs key players so eliminating the comp in the cl and allowing them another 5-in-a-row = the end of competitive football in the long run – no competition (relatively balanced head to heads = no point of playing as we all know who would win))
Back on subject, the reason why we have been so successful under the glazers is that unlike the situ at madrid and city the large majority of decisions are down to the manager – not the owners or president and by bringing in new owners that may solve the debt problem but may also bring in a new set of equally damaging problems. But one thing is certain, for us fans utd is a passion but for the glazers it’s a business venture – just as long as they are making profit then they are happy (also on the paper story of the glazers taking 20m of utds money – technically they own utd so the money was theirs in the first place). It’s all very well want the glazers gone but as i said new owners could leave even more probs and who said they wouldn’t have their own debt, and fans could boycott utd but that would be shooting ourselves in the foot as fans creating a fund to help as we don’t know whether that would end up helping utd or padding the glazers pockets. Bottom line is that i don’t think that their is anyway (unless banks step in or glazers get offered a huge profit to sell) that the glazers can get forced out but the club don’t really have the current 7 yrs (2017 loan payment current deadline) before we are crippled beyond repair. The debt problem cannot be solved overnight but we cannot carry on waiting. Prehaps the glazers need to agree that they need to wipe our debt problem by the not too distant future (2012 – 2014) and not by selling the clubs assists or get out and us fans need to cross fingers that we win something major this yr as we are going to need a major cup to keep hold of/ attract in the summer major players to help us stay on top in the short/long term.
sorry about the very long rant
Were having a party when glazer dies…..
the glazers are fuckers but the banks are screwin us with the amount of interest on the loans, football i one of the few things guys like this has to hold onto, we love it, and seein dickheads like the glazers fuck it up kills me, we forced out mcmanus and magnier when we took fergie’s side and wanted them out, what were we thinkin…
No one’ going to like this post but I got to say it …. most of the guys on this site know a thing or two about football and a shit load about United. Sometimes we post as if we know more about picking a team, match tactics and player sales and purchases that Fergie and Gill
….. but the one thing I’m sure off is most of us no F A about financing a billion pound global enterprise. So why don’t we just believe Fergie and say that while we’re having the sort of success we’ve had since the Glazers have taken over we can have nothing to complain about relative to our ownership.
I challenge anyone to come up with one proven instance of them interfering with football matters????? (Unlike just about every other foreign owned club ex maybe Villa.)
giggs11gerrard0 – mate, berbatov coulnd’t even get a sniff in the barca team…nor real..because they already have what he has to offer…and those players offer more of it and better
as for the big fish in the small pond—-how is city a small pond – it’s the biggest pond possible in england these days…look at the competition for their places in attack…i’m sure that only wayne rooney would have a guaranteed place in their attack from all our stikers…and he would be playing with tevez….
Croney – Citeh are NOT the biggest fish in the pond as you put it. Don’t rate Adebayour, Benjani or Robinho. They are a samll club pal.
they are a small club, of (fuckin) course…but the competition in attack is far greater than here
BELLAMY,Benjani,TEVEZ,ROBINHO,ADEBAYOR,Santa Cruz are all great forwards…most notably the ones in caps…just because you don’t rate them doesn’t mean they aren’t…robinho has a mental problem but i would take him over berbatov anyday…SAF would get him in order
SWP can also play a wide attacker in a 4-3-3 formation
CRooney
City are a small pond compared to Manchester United because, like you said, they are a smaller club. They don’t have the same expectations we do, they don’t have the same history we do and they are not the team to beat like we are.
Can you remember the last time a team’s supporters released a T-shirt because they beat City? I can’t. It’s much easier delivering for a club like them. Does anyone from the media tear them to shreds like they do with Man United? Tevez’s first couple of months over there weren’t his best, yet I didn’t hear any journalist call him a 47 million pound flop. At the same time, players like Berbatov, Veron and Forlan were cornered the minute they signed with Man United.
Costas…that’s irrelevant – he was big hit with us, when the pressure was the most…IN HIS FIRST SEASON…
bzw – why was forlan cornered ? he wasn’t pais half as berba and veron were
*paid
CROoney
In Forlan’s case, it was so much about his price tag as it was about the fact that he wasn’t scoring. No one bothered to wonder why it was happening(Forlan rarely started games, it was his first time in Europe, etc). He was just labeled as a flop.
I will disagree about Tevez. No matter how well he performed with us on his first season(which he did), you have to shake your head at that price tag and wonder if he is worth it. And in his first couple of months over there, he wasn’t playing like 47million, yet no one critisized him. In fact, he was more critisized when he had his slow start at Man United. That’s the difference between the 2 clubs.
47 million is false and a poor excuse for us not buying him….he is well worth the 30 million tag as rooney’s worth it…had he been nurtured like rooney, the england’s sweetheart he would have been labelled as success now…tehy are players on the same level, only rooney’s a bit better with his first touch and vision
CROoney
The way our finances are, we weren’t going to sign him unless his fee dropped below the 25 million mark. We didn’t have to make excuses about the fee being higher. The reports about the fee being close to 47 million didn’t come from us:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_city/article6831582.ece
You are entitled to your opinion, but I still feel that he is not worth 47 or even 32 million(the amount of money we would have payed in total). He has scored a lot of goals this season, but so has Darren Bent…