England are out of Euro 2012 after losing on penalties to Italy in the quarter-finals. After Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney scored their penalties, Ashley Young smashed his penalty against the crossbar before Ashley Cole took a tame penalty which was an easy save for Buffon.
Young lifted his penalty, with Buffon getting nowhere near it, so it’s puzzling as to why he felt the need to hit it so hard. After all the fuss that had been made in the press this week about how much England had been practicing taking penalties and how well prepared Joe Hart was, it was disappointing for them to miss half the pens they took and Hart get nowhere near saving any of them.
Young had a miserable tournament and it’s amazing he managed to last the full 120 minutes yesterday without being subbed. He constantly lost the ball and his crossing was generally pretty poor.
It’s a shame for Young, given how well he has done for England this year. He scored the only goal of the game in England’s win over Wales and he scored the opening goal in their 2-2 draw with Montenegro. He also scored in friendlies against Holland and Norway.
Only Swizerland’s Xherdan Shaqiri scored more goals in the group than Young in qualifying and of England’s six games, he started four of them, came on as a sub against Bulgaria and was injured for the Switzerland game.
Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney can be pleased enough with their contribution to the tournament, with both of them scoring winning goals in the group stages. Welbeck was well received by the fans too, with chants of “let’s all do the Welbeck” coming from the stands, which should be good for his confidence. It was surprising to see him withdrawn so early on in the quarter-final but I’m sure he’s taken a lot from the tournament. Rooney failed to meet the expectations put on his shoulders though and struggled to make any impact against Italy.
Let’s hope the boos and whistles Young will receive next season inspire him to be better, as it did with David Beckham and Cristiano Ronaldo.
Choose losing on penalties. Choose scapegoats. Choose England.
Man Utd News 24/7
My thought after the game was exactly rounded up in the last sentence
Here we go again…..boring really!!!!!!
Nah, I doubt Young will get booed. For the missed penalty anyway. He’ll get booed for the same reason he was booed at the end of this season.
Young is a weird player. He didn’t have the best of tournaments, but a lot of that has to do with how England play. Being a right footer playing on the left, means he has to rely on support. Quite often that never happened because England didn’t commit many players forward. It’s different for him at United because he has 4-5 different players he can link up with. Plus, it’s not something a lot of people acknowledge, but Young did help out immensely at the back. That’s why Hodgson kept him on until the end and it’s probably why Fergie relied on him instead of Nani at the end of the season.
Anyway, what’s done is done. Good job to our 4 lads. Enjoy your break, recharge your batteries and get ready to regain our title.
young can hold his head up high as he had to help cole to defend why in the world they brought Carol on i dont no, defoe is much better then him brought on henderson, chaimberland far better then him i think england should just fire hogson and start building with the youngsters
Forzaa Naniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
@Costas
Young did incredibly well tracking back and nullifying left-sided threats, which is I guess how he stayed on for 120 mins yesterday.
And then aside from that, he had an absolute mare of a tournament. Seemed determined to give the ball away at every opportunity. Maybe if Rooney had buried that easy header and given him an assist, it might have given him a lift.
Let’s hope he puts it behind him. We’re gonna have to hit the ground running next season.
No one should be booed, no one got sent off, no one let a goal in. Balotelli didn’t injure any of our players and didn’t get an English player sent off. I actually feel the press were banking on Balotelli losing his rag so if England did lose he would be made a scapegoat. So the press will be clutching at straws. Ashley Young had a bad tournament just like Rooney did in 2010. It might be possible that some sordid revelations about him are going to be plastered in newspapers. He was excellent before the tournament started he the United player I would have expected to have had a great tournament.
Portugal will lose against Spain only because I want the former to win………..
As for the topic at hand, I hope this will not live with Young……..Get over it son. United are what really matters
On F365 – there are already ‘Rooney and Young cost us’ letters – some from Utd ‘fans’.
Choose loosing on penalties, Choose scapegoats, Choose England
Choose passing. Choose more passing. Choose even more passing. Choose so much passing it makes your eyes bleed. Choose passing until you die of boredom. Choose Spain.
never mind if they had won on penalties it would have been robbing the italians for their wonderful match despite the 0-0 score. however ashley needs to learn from it and never try take a penalty like that again, unless he’s confident of placing it well under the bar and inside the roof of the net
Ashley Young was awful, John Terry was abysmal but apparently the pundits and commentators thought he had an excellent tournament. Constantly caught out of position, constantly being skinned. That moment against Sweden when Zlatan ran down the wing summed Terry’s tournament up form me.
Joe Hart – dodgy all tournament, spilling shots – again they said he had an excellent tournament…. dear o dear.
Rooney was pathetic, yet again failing to do his job of closing off Pirlo – a la Champions League final last year.
Is it wrong to feel so smug about England losing?
LETS ALL CONCENTRATE ON LOCKING UP THAT BASTARD TERRY
I’m getting really bored of fellow united fans acting like we are the only club that suffers a backlash from the press with regards to England.Chelsea,Arsenal and Liverpool all suffer the same problems yet we are the only club that appears to constantly cry about it.. In the not so distant future we will have Jones Smalling Young, Cleverly, Rooney and Wellbeck in the starting England team and I for one as united supporter am proud of this fact. Get over yourselves and support our players in the three lions
Ak47. The reason why Rooney and young were so “pathetic” was because they were FORCED by uncle woy to defend for 90% of the game. Attackers are on the field mostly for one thing. TO ACTUALLY ATTACK. Messi is not on the field to track the run of any deep lying midfielder or defend for 85 out of 90 mins. He is on the field to make runs, receive passes from midfielders and score goals. This is the same for all attackers ANYWHERE in the world. If you want to defend for 85 mins then put out 11 defensive players.
But I agree with the overall assessment. Young was not good at all in the tournament. but not many people can hold their heads up and claim to have done something in the England camp.
As for the boos. I am not in the least bit worried. Rooney gets constantly booed at away grounds anyways. Young was booed last season too for diving. So its pretty much as you were in that department.
Another thing. I beleive Young’s performance in this tournament is one MAJOR reason why Nani must NEVER be sold. He is far better than Young no offence to him. And it should be Nani and Valencia on the wings for United next season with Young coming off the bench. This is the truth. I believe that the reason why Nani’s contract talks have not ben finalized by now is because Sir Alex SOMEHOW thinks that Young is just as good as Nani which is horribly wrong.
LMAO I saw one supposed United “fan” on daily fail claiming that Rooney is overhyped and is not all that. Nice apprecaition for the man who kept you in the title race with his 26 goals in the league. Yeah sure you’re a United “fan” LMFAO.
Congrats Ashley. We love you. And if you’ve not seen this before, even if you have, watch Chicharito do a ‘Pirlo’ in 2011 Gold Cup : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sz35MTDyTI&feature=youtu.be
But why was Rooney so poor? I was really looking forward to his return to England setup, was sure he would make an impact, and now I have to put up with all the smart asses saying “told you Rooney isn’t world class”…
Hahahaaa Young is more like a full back playing on the wings helping out, he can’t drive forward dribble or keep possession. The worst ting iz Nani gonna leave we gonna be left with this guy, I love united and respect our players such as Young but during this tournament all he did was to confirm what I always thought of him, he’s a just an epl player not world class like Martin O’Neil proclaimed few years ago.
Off topic, but I was glad to see Diamanti play such a pivotal role yesterday after his failed stint at West Ham a few years back.
@kanchelskis
Hi mate. Yeah, overall I’d lie if I said Ashley impressed me going forward. I mentioned a reason why I thought that happened, but he still could have done better. That being said, none of our lads had a great tournament. I have trouble remembering anything positive from Rooney and Welbeck other than their 2 goals. Of course I could cut Welbz all the slack in the world since this was his first major tournament, but I thought Wayne would have been more influential. But then again, there’s so much you can do when your team has 37% ball possession.
@Dannysoya
Young could turn out as a very good Park replacement. A winger that tracks back a lot (God knows Evra needs one ahead of him all the time nowdays) but also chips in with odd assist or goal. But he can’t replace what Nani can do. That’s not a critisism against him. It’s how it is. Heck, Antonio can’t do it either. It would be crazy if Nani was let go while he’s in his prime.
We should stay away from English players unless they are defenders. I can’t blame Hodgson for going with chicken shit tactics because that’s the best you can make of these players’ potential. To an extent, it’s the same with us but we have some world class attackers like Nani and Valencia.
Nani is twice the player Young is and ever will be, but Ferguson plays his kick and rush old school wingers’ football, so the wide men have to hug the touchline and deliver crosses. This is why Valencia is our best player when he really shouldn’t be, because he specialises in pace and crossing. You can’t expect to simplify Nani to a crossing role, he is deadly cutting in and the only player in the team able to manipulate the ball in tight spaces. This is why we should play a 4-3-3 like Portugal, it prevents our midfield from getting overrun and allows us to give freedom to the few world class players that we possess.
Rooney was hopeless in midfield today, having to drop deep to make up for the average midfield, similar to what he has to do for United. Welbeck gave the ball away every time, he’s simply never going to be a world class striker. The only thing missing from that shower of shit out there was Phil Jones, the ultimate jack of all trades.
Morning.
Fucking laughing stock last night those cunts. How much time was Pirlo allowed? Thought that was what role the very limited Parker was given to hassle players. Couldnt even do that. Stevie Me had been hailed all tournament but when he comes up against a world class midfielder in Pirlo the cramped bastard couldnt get a foothold in the game. All Carrol does is bluster and blunder about the pitch conceding foul after foul. Pirlo last night reminded me of Scholes WHEN he is allowed time on the ball. Perhaps the superb “Scotty” Parker should have a word with our very own Park who had Pirlo in his arse pocket two seasons ago.
Tyler the abu cunt said toff cunt Hart was the stand out player. What? He fumbled shot after shot. Arrogant cunt sticking his tongue out. Once again the media are talking about grass roots and academy football. Abysmal display last night and if Ingerlund had gone through it would have been a fucking travesty. Cheers Woy for wasting two weeks of Phil Jones’ summer.
United > Ingerlund.
@sp did you watch any united games last season? Im guessing you didnt as your calling the Premier league the EPL like a clueless yank
@dannysoya LOVES SIAN MASSEY says:
“the reason why Rooney and young were so “pathetic” was because they were FORCED by uncle woy to defend for 90% of the game.”
Is it because he wanted to defend of because England aren’t good enough to play the play the ball around further up the pitch? I don’t think defending was a choice. I think is was a result of not being able to do anything else against superior opposition.
Young had a disappointing Euros but what did people expect when Parker and Gerrard couldn’t string 2 decent passes together and keep possession for a meaningful length of time ? Young spent most of all matches tracking back and defending. Yes, his form was not great but the entire team has to take responsibility for what happened.
It was fantastic to see Andrea Pirlo give Parker and Stevie Me a footballing lesson. He even covered more distance than either(although Parker was subbed). So much for Passion, determination and effort eh? Saw some posts saying Scholes should have been there but the fact is he quit international football 8 years ago and in that time England have not had one midfielder of his class in that time. They have a palyer in the in the Pirlo mould in Carrick but headless chicken Scotty Parker is deemed better than him. I hope yesterday serves as a wake up call to everyone who values effort above skill and ability but don’t expect much to change for England as long as uncle Woy is in charge.
Anyway its great to see the four best teams in the tournament make the semis. Hope its Germany-Portugal in the final but have a feeling the tippy tappy fuckers will be a bridge too far for Portugal.
@ what u mean u doubt Young will get booed? Of course he’ll get booed u egg. He plays for Man United. Standard
On another note fellas, how do u see us lining up next season and what formation will suit us best. Should we go away from the usual 442 and start playing the 4531 formation as seen by a lot of teams during the Euros? Hmm and now with Kagawa in the mix, its going to be interesting what Fergie has up his sleeve tactics wise.
Roll on next season. UNITED!
Yes I HATE that term “EPL” Newton Heath Red.
@Moscow. Whati s wrong with you? Rooney played in Midfield against Italy? HAHAHA. Welbeck will “never be a world class striker”? The boy is 21 years old you know and led the line FAR BETTER than any other England striker the entire tournament. Fergi [;ays kick and rush football? you mean the football that attracted you to suport the club? the football that won United 12 premier league titles and two European and world titles? Please stop that rubbish.
Panderi – Spot on pal.
* I meant go away from the 442 formation and divert to a 4231??
King Eric,
Spot on mate. Park man marked Pirlo in that game and he did’t have even an inch of space. Parker is just a waste of Space.
Got me thinking of United players in tournaments. Was Ronaldo the last of ours to play in a final? The first World Cup I watched was in 1994 and I can’t remember a United player playing in a World Cup final. Was the last time in 1996? Had to be a United player at the time, so no Kleberson etc.
I’d still like our players to do well. Not fussed about England but love these tournaments from a more neutral perspective.
For England? Cleverley and Wilshere should be brought into the team/squad asap.
@ Bobby Charlton’s combover. Erm I think if England decide to go forward they can definitely cause some damage. You’re a United fan so I don’t need to tell you that Rooney and Welbeck combined for more than 45 goals for United last season. I’m pretty sure they can attack.
dannysoya LOVES SIAN MASSEY
There’s probably a reason why he only won two European Cups in 25 years, and that’s the failure of his 4-4-2 formation and outdated tactics. Let’s not forget that much of our success in the latter part of the 00s was down to Ronaldo.
Oh and james milner and scott parker are a disgrace to the England shirt. What jokers! Shite footballers!
@ahjs
Yeah, Ronaldo in 04 is probably the only United player to play in a Euro or World Cup final after 1966. (Saha and Silvestre didn’t play in 06). I could be wrong about it though…
I thought Englands passing game was pretty good, the Italians got most of them without much problem.
The only England player who came out with any credit from the tournament for me is Welbeck. Had a decent game against France, scored a great goal against Sweden and some of his play holding up the ball was fantastic. Pity he didn’t get a lot of support upfront. Can’t believe the dumb fucks in the press are bleating on about Gerrard, Parker and Terry having a good tournament. But then what more can you expect from the people who voted Parker player of the year when he got relegated with West Ham ?
@moscow^^^
Ur hillarious but ur right specially about young and the kinda footy united play, the say united way is the right way but we haven’t been playing the right way at all we are stock with better players Loool, I just hope the old man at the club don’t destroy the new boy kagawa
England should ask the scouse manager to revise the whole system England should lots of young coaches in Europe to learn how football is played. In 2012 we are still playing 1966 style of football.
On another note, do any1 of u know whether jones, welbeck, wazza and youngy will be going to South Africa for the pres season tour now that they are out of the Euros with England? Cheers
dannysoya
And yes, Rooney played in midfield last night, and was fucking useless. Pirlo dominated the game given all the time and space to pick out his passes. Wayne should be played up front with Kagawa in the hole behind him next season.
Ironic though that the game when England desperately needed to keep possession, they couldn’t call on the services of Carrick. Serves them right for omitting the best passer in the country.
Moscow. Who bought Ronaldo for 12 million and turned him into the Machine he is today? was it a spirit? LOL I cannot believe you are trying to challenge Fergie’s track record. You talk like the Champions league is something you win every year. Even this legendary Barcelona side can’t do it every year. It’s the toughest football competition in the world. Tougher than the World cup or the euros. The world’s top 10 club sides play in that tournament EVERY YEAR and he’s won it twice and you are complaining like it’s a bad record. Wenger has been at arsenal for 16 years with not one European title. The last time Real Madrid won it was in 2002 despite the heavy amount they spend every year. Get some perspective before talking dude.
Why do you even support this club anyways? since according to you we play crude, old football then go and support a more “modern” team. Like say….. “Massive” Man city.
Reading some of the shit about Wayne or Shrek as the Ingurland fans call him. I really don’t know what they expect from him.
There was a moment in the second half yesterday where Rooney picked up the ball and drove forward to the half way line with Cole on his left and then he turns about 180 in the centre circle to pass it to Parker who then passes it (badly) left where it reaches Cole while Rooney makes a forward run.
He does that at OT he would at the bare minimum get a Golf Clap. We appreciate good movement. England? That fucking cunt Guy Mowbry just lays into him for not passing left? These new commentators know fuck all about the game. Bring back Barry Davies and somehow resurrect the voice of the late great Brian Moore.
Moscow Rooney DID NOT play in Midfield last night. Did you not see the formation? 4-4-2. The “2″ there reps TWO STRIKERS. I’m done with this note.
@Moscow
Carrick omitted himself mate. Hodgson would’ve taken him, but Carrick told the FA a while back that he didn’t want to be considered for selection.
@Costas
Forgot about Silvestre! Just looked it up and yeah, he didn’t play in the ’06 final. I remember Saha was suspended but had been used a sub. Reckon he would have got on in that match match.
@ Moscow
Who’s to say Hodgson wouldn’t have picked Carrick? He surely would have made the squad but sounds like he made himself unavailable.
@dannysoya LOVES SIAN MASSEY
of course they can attack – the best move by England last night was Welbeck & Rooney in the first half. But if Young is on the wing putting in a poor shift, milner is on the other wing and Gerrard and Parker in the middle pulling the strings how are they going to really put the opposition under pressure? England are incapable of putting together a sustained attack against quality opposition. They try to create chances after 2 or passes because they can’t string any more together when attackign. If they take any longer they’ll lose the ball and be on the back foot. This type of rushed football leads to no misplaced passes and mistimed runs.
GOOD TEAMS PLAY THEIR WAY UP THE PITCH. POOR TEAMS FORCE THEIR WAY UP THE PITCH.
Carrick said he didn’t want to be considered if he was only going to be warming the bench and not playing. He decided he didn’t fancy spending his summer training and watching instead of playing. Woy told him was going to be bit-part so Carrick said forget it.
@moscow u are talking bollocks mate,u cant talk shit about SAF like that,if u dont like united why dont you go support those ABU cunts
Carrick said he wouldn’t want to be considered for selection if he was not to play a prominent role in the tournament. I’m not going to debate if its right or wrong but the fact that Woy thought Parker, Barry and Fat Frank got into the starting 11 ahead of Carrick says a lot about what he thinks of him.
danny soya
Rooney played in midfield mate, like he did for us last season. It was a failure because his first touch, passing and technique are not up to standard to play that intricate game. Yes they played Rooney and Welbeck but as always Welbeck flattered to deceive while Rooney dropped deep. Did you even watch the game?
My understanding is Carrick told the FA he didn’t want to be a bit part player before Hodgson had taken over. Hodgson had just inherited the job with very little time to prepare so I don’t think he was in a position to guarantee Carrick a starting place, which is what he wanted in order to be selected, so he didn’t contact Carrick.
Hodgson’s words – “The contacts with Michael were actually conducted before I took the job and it was made clear to me that he wasn’t a player that wanted to be considered, so he wasn’t a player that I did consider. At the time, with all the senior players we had at our disposal, it wasn’t so important.
“Michael Carrick is a player that I have always admired and, who knows, in the future, if these type of injuries continue, he might have a very important part to play. But then I would have to go and speak to him, and I don’t think that was appropriate before these European Championships.”
More great comments from Kagawa:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Jun/shinji-kagawa-enjoys-united-visit.aspx
ajhs,
“in the future, if these type of injuries continue, he might have a very important part to play”. Says a lot doesn’t it ? On ability and form Carrick should walk into the England starting 11 and not have to wait for any injuries.
We desperately need to buy at least 2 world class midfielders, one to replace Carrick and the other to add steel to the midfield. I’m not sold on Cleverley, I think people rave about him because he’s English and 22 years old but I’ve seen younger midfielders who are much, much better, like the Basque youngsters at Athletic. 45 minutes in the Charity Shield does not make a superstar, and not even making this England squad speaks volumes of his true quality. He sort of reminds me of Rodwell, another overrated English young ‘talent’.
It’s this sort of logic that robbed the Scousers of £120 million.
Panderi
Yeah, I would have him in my team but I think it’s harsh to blame the new manager for this. Maybe he’ll pick him for future squads.
When I say replace Carrick, I mean buy an understudy for him, he was brilliant last season but already he is 31 and we should be looking for long-term solutions. He doesn’t rely on pace so we can get a good 2-3 more years out of him.
I agree with Moscow. People rave about Cleverly but he has made about a dozen appearances
in the first team and yet he is painted as the messiah. I’m not saying he won’t be but these expectations seem premature given what we have seen so far.
Yes Rooney played deep last night but doesnt mean he played as midfielder. Hell, if u watch United’s games U’ll see Rooney were everywhere & it’s WRONG to blame Rooney for not covering Pirlo bcoz it was Parker’s job…
Rooney is not good enough technically to play in any role other than an out and out striker. He made his name as a striker, with his pace, aggression and deadly finishing. I feel that he is a victim of his own versatility, and Fergie has abused tinkering with his position for too long. His best season was in 09/10 when he played as a lone striker and scored 34 goals before April when he did his ankle.
Fergie’s ignorance in midfield has meant that Rooney is asked to cover up the cracks by dropping deep, but without any world class striker up front we are laid bare. Neither Welbeck nor Hernandez can play as a lone striker.
Unbelievable comments from Moscow. How is the job of a striker to cover a central midfielder? I do not understand that logic AT ALL. Wayne Rooney played in midfield for SOME games. they weren’t even up to 10 games. He played 95% of last season for United as a striker. I don’t know who the hell is telling you that Rooney played for United as a mdifielder for most of last season. Oh and Yes I did watch the entire game plus penalties. Welbeck flattered to deceive? So I guess you think Andy Carroll was England’s best striker at the tournament right? Please just stop.
People like Moscow are the reasons why I believe that United study that claimed we have 650 million plus fans is completely retarded.
sp – The old man at the club doesn’t ruin Kagawa? Fuck off and show some respect you disrespectful cunt. Fergie makes the players who they are today not ruins them. What a piss take you are. The man who has brought us untold joy and you refer to him as “the old man” .
Moscow – Seen you before posting your anti Fergie and United drivel on here.
@dannysoya:
It’s not suprising though? He think SAF played lesser part of our success in late 00′s than Ronaldo..
Moscow – Sorry misread your posts on some. Yes Carrick after Scholes is the best passer of the ball about. It wasn’t Rooney;s job to deal with Pirlo it was Parker or Stevie Me’s.
@dannysoya:
It’s not suprising though? He think SAF played lesser part of our success in late 00′s than Ronaldo. Can U believe that??
sp – Do you mean Brendan Rogers who actually inherited Swansea from Martinez who had them playing that way?
NRD – Alright mate, you well? Absolutely spot on about commentary. Barry Davies was excellent and my all time favourite commentator followed by Brian Moore.
Moscow – To replace Carrick? What? He is only 30 pal. Cleverley has much more technical ability than fucking Rodwell and I have followed him for years. Its more than the Charity Shield. He was one of our best players for first couple of months of season and was outstanding, If nit for injuries he would have gone to the Euro’s as he made the squad while he was fit early season. Mark my words he will be a top player.
I dunno, Pirlo is a deep-lying midfielder so it makes sense that the deep-lying striker (Rooney) has to cover him. England’s midfielders can’t do it and Rooney’s much closer – it was his job to cover Busquets in the 2011 CL final but he made a bad job of it and the camera cut to Fergie and he looked really pissed at Wayne.
Worried for Wayne that 2004 will always be his best tournament. England should go 451 but Rooney is surely best as the second striker but without so many defensive duties.
King Eric
Has Cleverley played well against any top class midfield? Tell me.
We played West Brom, Tottenham, Arsenal before getting injured against Bolton by that cunt Kevin Davies. Tottenham played with Kranjcar and Livermore in midfield, Arsenal played with Rosicky-Ramsey-Coquelin. He was on loan against Wigan the previous season and he didn’t set the world alight.
There are better midfield options at his age, remember those kids at Athletic? They outplayed some of our most senior midfielders including Cleverley who couldn’t string two passes against them.
UNITED >>>>>> IN-GUR-LAND or any other club or country
dannysoya
Actually mate, just because I don’t think Welbeck is world class (and never will be btw) doesn’t mean I rate Carroll. I actually don’t rate a lot of England’s players. My original point was to stick to continental players, and build our side around them instead of using the neanderthal tactics and formation which cost us so dearly last season.
Rooney was supposed to do a job on Pirlo and link the midfield to the attack. He failed to mark Pirlo which meant Italy dominated the game, and gave the ball away every single time which meant there was no coherent England attack all game. We should learn from this and play Rooney where he is at his best, playing up front and scoring goals. To do that, we need to assemble a world class midfield so Wayne doesn’t have to worry about service or having to drop back into midfield where is so hopeless.
Moscow – Well like you say he did ok against City. He can only perfom against who is he up against if you get me. He is a great one and two touch player. Presses players. Aware of space. Great energy. Just need to keep him fit. Well yes Martinez is quality as is Muniain etc BUT they didnt perform like that all season I can assure you. They played out their skin against United. You watch Cleverley if he stays fit. He has the makings of a great player. If I am wrong I will duly admit that. Wasn’t Cleverley partnered with Park against Bilbao, I cannot remember. In any case he wasn’t fit at all.
Moscow – Of course Danny isn’t world class. He is 20 or 21 years old with YEARS left to improve. He will get there.
Right back to work.
This is great news for United. Fergie will use this upcoming hate towards Young and Rooney by developing a siege mentality. Thanks again England! You’ve been silent partners in our pro longed success.
Moscow,
Did you really expect Cleverley to set the world alight playing for Wigan? He did very well for a team fighting relegation. He was injured for a period of time there and played around 25 league games and was one of their best players. When his loan deal was confirmed to have been extended till the end of the season in January, I remember Martinez saying Wigan had made their most important signing. I agree with you that he has not proved anything yet but the potetial is definitely there and I’m sure he would have been in this England squad if not for that cunt Davies. And when it comes to the Bilbao squad except for Muniain who played on the wings, I don’t think anyone was younger than Clevs? If not for injury I think we would have him do as well as the Bilbao kids last season. So whilst not branding him great or world class, let us also not write him off just yet.
King Eric
We will see whether Cleverley dashes our hopes as I believe he will next season. Time will tell. As for Welbeck he is a good lad but his touch, balance and especially his finishing isn’t up to scratch. Higuain was banging in 30 goals a season for Real Madrid at his age so if you’re good enough you’re old enough in my opinion.
Panderi
I’m not writing him off, just saying that we shouldn’t use Cleverley as an excuse not to sign a top central midfielder this summer. Remember Fergie hyping up Pogba as one of the reasons not to sign midfielders like Sneijder? Well that has certainly left a bitter taste not least because we’ve only polished Pogba up for Juventus to come and prise him away. I don’t want us with egg on our faces when we gamble a season on Cleverley and he ends up as I have predicted.
Gonna wade in on the debate here, with Moscow’s comments being held in derision by some members here.
While Moscow’s thoughts are rather extreme on SAF, he makes some good points.
Firstly, there is no way parker and stevie me are expected to effectively mark Pirlo please, given the rigid 442 system. Expecting them to come out to mark pirlo would leave a huge gap in central midfeld. Pirlo dictates play from deep, and so the deep lying forward needs to do a job there marking him. When Park owned pirlo a couple of years ago, it was because SAF played park where Rooney played for england. Obviously rooney aint three-lung park so it didnt quite work out there.
Which then brings about the point about SAF’s tactics. His insistence on playing the 442 has us found wanting in Europe. Obviously we have much better players than england, but in europe where players are way more technical than in the league, we can’t match most teams in a 442 system. To play 442, you better have world class players in in each midfield position – think Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham in the 90s.
Hence I don’t quite understand why some here are so irate at Moscow’s comments. Maybe its a lack of respect towards SAF. However, SAF can be inept when it comes to tactics. He’s never been a master tactician. He’s always been lauded as an exceptional man-motivator. Queiroz gave us the most fluid formation a couple of years back, but now its old school.
Funny how Paul Scholes was trending on twitter today…I mean he has been retired for 8 years
I seriously don’t think ashley young will be starting a lot of games next season. Nani is hitting top gear and with valencia’s consistency, He will struggle to start matches but saying that, i always knew he’d miss, it’s a shame though. He’s going to get lambasted now, all united players will face the wrath.
Just one more point on the 442…the only benefit out of that system we played last season was the emergence of Danny Welbeck.
I’m a huge huge fan of the lad, and I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. The reason why Berbatov wasn’t played last season was because of Welbeck. A lot on here keep harping on Berba not having enough game time but seriously, I wouldnt have Berba in for Welbeck. No fucking way. Imo, Welbeck has the touch, the awareness, and the movement. But he really needs to polish up on his finishing, which will come with maturity I’m sure.
Which is a bit of a conundrum really. The 442 is really limited, but without the 442, I cant see how Welbeck can fit in. (And I really hope to see Welbeck to be playing week in, week out)
The other thing about the 442 is that Kagawa would most likely be playing on the wings, which is not his ideal position.
@samuel,
Assuming Nani and Valencia are fit and firing, I agree that they edge Young on to the fence. But with Nani’s problems with injury and consitency, it’s still great to have him.
Young has that tendency – rather like a striker – to pull something special out of the bag even when he’s been playing poorly. Our away game at Spurs was a case in point. Nothing for ages and ages, then two top-class goals to effectively win us the game. I guess that’s why Hodgson kept him on last night.
IMO, if he and Nani can discover some consistency next season, the CM problem won’t matter (domestically anyway) and we’ll win the league. Big if though.
fence?! bench, obviously
Just heard steven GBH has claimed he’ll always remain available for the team. Just fucking great, looks like the complete overhaul of the team won’t be happening any time soon because bigoted cunts like gerrard, terry e.t.c won’t shift and leave for better emerging talents. They want the glory of international football but they’re too poor to actually achieve it.
Moscow,
You say you are not writing him off but then you say he’ll “dash our hopes” next season. Looks like you’re writing him off to me. Give him some time mate. I do agree with you that Cleverley cannot be used as an excuse for not signing a new midfielder, esp with Fletch’s future uncertain. As for Higuain, when you are playing in the La liga where Madrid bang in 5 goals every game you are bound to score 30 goals. Different to the Premier league, the comparision with Welbeck does not hold good for me. Welbeck’s finishing is not the best but if he stays fit, and starts a good amount of games next season I’d expect him to get around 18-20 goals whch is very good for a 21 year old.
@bRed
How much do you know about Kagawa? Does he ever play in a midfield two? Or only ever at the top of a midfield three?
I’m still curious as to how Fergie’s claim that he’ll make a big impact on the first team very quickly fits in with the development of Hernandez and Welbeck…
Evening Reds,
I most say, I was not born in England nor I have any blood line coming from there. I have no shame confessing that I was supporting them in the tournament, mainly because of Wazza, Young, and DannyBoy. It was unfortunate they got knocked out of the EUROs but playing that shitty shouldn’t guarantee you a place in the semi’s. The main problem was the midfield, Scotty Parker was shit and Gerrard didn’t provide any vision nor creativity. There were no over-laping runs from the fullbacks either, Young was disappointing but Milner was worse and Walcott is probably one of the most inconsistent player I’ve seen. I thought Rooney was ok, nothing to rave about but he wasn’t shit
On a lighter note, did you guys know that Nani was a street gangsta’?
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7840793/
Thinking about it, he kinda reminds you of that Billy Jean video
Kanchelskis – i don’t get this nani lacks consistency thing. He’s a flair player, an athlete that tries to sparkle with unpredictability, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t but you won’t become world class on the pitch if you ain’t willing to gamble. I have no issue with nani, i think he’s significantly more talented than any winger we have. Young however is a good option to bring off the bench, i think he’ll take time to recover from the disappointed of not having a great tournament.
*Disappointment. What is it me and spelling errors today!!
@ kanchelskis
Honestly, I’ve only seen highlights of him and read up on his exploits with Dortmund. Never seen him play a full match so I’m probably not that qualified to comment too much on Kagawa.
Having said that though, from what I gather, he started out on the wings with Dortmund but really burst into the limelight when moved into the hole and struck an excellent partnership with lewandowski.
Really excited about Kagawa though. Looks a good prospect. I wouldnt call him the finished article yet.
@samuel
For sure Nani’s inconsistency isn’t as bad as some make out. It’s also a fundamental aspect of being a winger. Someone who tries to better a direct opponent through flair or skill will inevitably exasparate when their experiments fail.
In terms of fundamental talent, he and Rooney are out on their own as regards our current squad. I just always get the feeling that both need to add that final aspect to their game, where they become reliably brilliant, and can change games on a regular basis. Still haven’t had that in our squad since Ronnie left.
37% possession last night for england last night and the problem stems from the fact they hustle and bustle all action players rather than technicians. Parker and gerrard are just awful with the ball, no creativity or vision, they run in straight lines. Parker didn’t complete any single positive pass forward last night. Sideways or back to the keeper is his motto. Pathetic.
I wonder if Portugal would ask Ronaldo to shackle someone like Pirlo? The same with Argentina and Messi? That’s one of England’s problems. They ask their most creative/scoring talents to fill in at midfield by stopping a class act like Pirlo. Working your backside off should be a given. Maybe let your attacking players win the games, and let other more qualified players do the ugly side of the game. Wayne Rooney will never be a CM. He lacks certain credentials for that area of the pitch. He’s in his element further forward, as a striker, or in the hole. In terms of United, Kagawa’s arrival will give Rooney a much needed boast. Rooney’s last few performances were slack. Giving the ball away. Trying too many hollywood passes, when the simple pass was on. IMO, Fergie has pin pointed this and acted by signing Kagawa. I always look at new season as a clean slate. Whoever starts the first league games and CL games, and performs should stay in. If you’re having stinkers, you sit on the bench. That’s all depended on injuries of course. No more players getting selected on their reps. United have great options going forward. Young, Nani, Welbeck, Valencia, Rooney, Hernandez and Kagawa will all be vying for positions. 4231 seem to be the way we’ll be setting next year. No doubt we’ll still see 442 on occasions though.
DannySoya @ 11:`11: “I beleive Young’s performance in this tournament is one MAJOR reason why Nani must NEVER be sold. He is far better than Young no offence to him. And it should be Nani and Valencia on the wings for United next season with Young coming off the bench.”
Absolutely, totally agree with this.
I’ve never really understood why SAF plunked down so much money for Ashley Young – at the start of last season, UTD had two exceptional wingers, still in the early middle stages of their career; UTD had seasoned back-up in case of emergencies in SirRyanGiggs and ThreeLungPark; and two of the best prospects in the kiddie corps – Larnell Cole and Jesse Lingard – play as wide men; plus, in a pinch, either or both of the Da Silva twins can do a job as a winger. At the same time, SAF and his team of assistants must have known that DarrenFletcherinho had a serious medical condition that might likely de-rail his career. AND, of course, TheGingerNinja had retired after the debacle against Barcelona in May, 2011. In those circumstances, spending 15/16/17/18 million quid (?) for another “winger” – and a one-footed winger, at that – and then paying him around 100,000 a week seems like Fergy made a serious error in judgement. Even more so when that amount of money could have purchased – say – Yohan Cabaye AND Cheike Tiote or Arturo Vidal or ???? who would have been more relevant to UTD’s needs.
I know, Ashley Young isn’t terrible – although he was terrible at this just-concluded tournament – but he’s not the right guy, he’s not in the right place, and it’s not the right time to have spent so much “treasure” on acquiring him. He has almost no resale value and he’s taking game-time away from Nani, who is a terrific player etc., etc.
Hold on, it’s pretty unrealistic to expect welbeck to turn world class instantly. He’s potential and is developing well, he has all the attributes to be top class but he also has weaknesses that he’ll know he needs to work on and i’m sure he will. The experience he’d have garnered from playing in the euros against world class opposition will help Him in the long run. He’s all the technical skills. His first touch and off the ball movement are top notch, his link up play and all round game is good but his finishing needs improving and it will with more games and with more games, he’ll possess composure in front of goal. He’ll come good but requires patience.
King Eric @ 11:36: “Pirlo last night reminded me of Scholes WHEN he is allowed time on the ball.”
Exactly ! Hell, Pirlo out-jumped Andy Carrol twice, too !
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1581911_ashley-young-targeted-by-twitter-race-hate-troll-after-euro-2012-penalty-miss
Horrible cunts.
I completely agree with denton’s assessment of Young. I was stunned to learn that we spent 18 million or something like that on Ashley Young? It was incredible to say the least that we would pend that amount of money on a player who was good but was 26 years old and was for the most part one-footed. He did not play well AT ALL in this tournament. However I will defend Rooney and welbeck. How on earth do you ask your best player to mark the midfielder on the opposing team. Is that what they are on the field for? I can’t understand why the hell Rooney would be asked to track the run of someone else when he should be making the runs. I really wish Wilshere and Carrick were at this tournament. Hell even Britton of Swansea would have done FAR BETTER than any of the England central midfielders.
bRed @ 14:08: “The 442 is really limited, but without the 442, I cant see how Welbeck can fit in. (And I really hope to see Welbeck to be playing week in, week out)”
Think outside the box. What about a 3-5-2 formation ? It’s very similar to how UTD play with Michael Carrick rarely venturing up-field – AND, it gives a role for two strikers, four wide-men, and a “playmaker” like KagawaBunga.
Last time Nani started ahead of Evra, we paid for it dearly against Everton. So it’s not as simple as saying Antonio and Nani will start from now on. On paper they are our 2 best wingers going forward, but unless Evra has gotten his act together (and the Euro wasn’t an indication that he has), then we will still need a winger covering his ass. So Young could still start a shitload amount of games.
@bRed
Some interesting points you have raised.
I have often thought SAF is a brilliant man manager but has been found wanting at the very highest level tactically. I brought this up on here a while back and not many on here were happy about that.
In my opinion the impact of Carlos Quieroz on United has been underestimated by many United fans. It was Quieroz who I would go as far as saying masterminded the semi final win over Barcelona at Old Trafford in 2008. Even Red Nev was singing his praises a few months back about how in training Queiroz was so meticulous he used sit-up mats to mark the positions he wanted the players to occupy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2125795/Manchester-Uniteds-master-plan-beating-Barcelona.html#ixzz1yoUNYBdq
United were taught a lesson last season by Atletic Bilbao. At least with Quieroz United would have devised some sort of game plan to give us a chance. STR alluded to this after the defeat.
4-2-3-1 is the formation to play at the moment. As you say unless you have world class players in every position then at the highest level 4-4-2 is not a viable option.
Looks like we have us a couple of fuck wits on here……..
Anyway like King Eric always recalled how Park marked the fuck out of Pirlo during our game with Milan……..Makes me think of how clever our little Korean really is….I have always said that Park is our most tactically gifted player and now having seen how Pirlo has been bossing games I am more convinced of that fact
Going on about Young’s fee is fucking boring. We paid the money. He’s here for the foreseeable future.
@AlphaRS / bRed
It’s no great secret – but it’s often only spoken in hushed terms – that Fergie’s brilliance doesn’t quite extend to his tactics. He’s primarily a motivator, someone who keeps the squad disciplined, hungry and committed, as well as someone who can bring the best out of (most) players and rear a squad over time.
I just wonder, since Queiroz left, who ‘replaced’ his tactical nous at Carrington … Phelan? Hardly. Meulensteen? Perhaps. Either way, it will be one of the biggest decisions of Fergie’s succession – whether to give it to another motivator (Moyes?) or to shift to a more tactical mind (Mourinho?). I have a feeling that if the trophy count drops off in Fergie’s remaining few years, it will be the latter. And that could have a profound change on the club, for better or for worse.
Moscow got some venom in his post,.no doubt.
Some of the points raised have been fair and. while I’m not naive to think all fans see SAF as a god,me thinks a chill pill may be in order.
That said im in agreement that Roo ain’t a proper NO 10. So very glad we got Kagawa-san. A proper CM will git on nicely with what we’ve got, either as an alternative to Carrick or a partner.
This will do a world of good to Tom C. a good platform of experienced players will give hI’m the chance to showcase his talent. Can’t do fuck all if he’s chasing the ball for half the game.
Finally, Danny Welbeck. This notion he’s got s poor touch really does my head in. I’ll go on record and day he has a better touch than Rooney. Uses his body better and isn’t flustered if he’s in a tight spot because you know he’ll try something to wriggle free. You can’t say the same for Wayne boy.
He falls over a lot I hear. Give him time and he’ll perfect the art of shielding the ball, take into account his awkward frame. he’s not small with a low center of gravity there a shit lot of compensation he has to take into account when receiving the ball and is being tightly marked. The only thing I want to hear is a midfield capture. cough cough De Rossi.
I would never say CQ isn’t worthy of mention to our CL win in 08. He’s a very good coach. One of the best in Europe. However, when he’s tried the number one positions at Madrid and Portugal, he’s been found out. Just saying….top coach, but a shit manager.
@Alpha
Very good point about CQ. And it’s not just the tactics against Barcelona. You can tell our defending in general hasn’t been worked at in training like it was when he was around.
Re: Young – The commentary was a fucking joke last night, its as if they were scared to ask why Captain Gerrard was walking around with his hand on his hip after only an hour while the Italians dominated the midfield. Milner was praised as some kind of hero when he went off but DOES he take on his man and bring the ball forward? No he doesn’t, unlike Young who is expected to attack, hence why he lost the ball more often. Im not denying Young was disappointing by his OWN high standards for England but he can’t be scapegoated for giving the ball away, as he covered more grass than ANY other midfielder and constantly tracked back – thats why he wasn’t substituted – he played a big role in helping England towards their pre-planned draw (Lol). Never mind Ashley you’ll be back with a proper footballing outfit soon enough.
@markynorbs – left a comment for you on the Where to put money page mate.
I know what you’re thinking. slim must have Tuberculosis. De Rossi will never happen but one can dream
Quick Rant as I don’t want to mention England on RoM again if I can help it – Im just glad England are out as hopefully SANITY can now resume.
Just for the record, people saying England are shit in 2012 isn’t being disrespectful to Charlton or any other England player, don’t be daft. And saying England are shit isn’t a gauge on somebodies patriotism either, and anybody who thinks it IS needs their fucking head tested. You’d think this was obvious but some people get real giddy when the Three Foxes don the “world famous” shirt of England. Hilarious.
Truth is England are currently SHIT and if you bother to read the papers today you’ll notice that suddenly everybody has changed their tune. Before they were knocked out, anybody who didn’t believe they could “go all the way” was a traitor to kith and kin. But suddenly, after being taken apart by an unlucky Italy, every honest person is finally admitting that (shock horror) England are FUCKING SHIT and still remain miles behind the best teams in Europe, never mind the World.
Don’t blame people like me for not being STUPID enough to not know that from the beginning. Im not partial to delusion, so I didn’t need to wait 4 games of mediocre bollocks to realise how woeful and overhyped the national team are.
For me, the problem with the England set up is everybody wants to be the big I am without putting in the work. All this “England Expects” crap is a fucking embarrassment as England ain’t in no fucking position to expect shit except maybe a Quarter Final place IF THEY ARE LUCKY. Do Ukraine go in “expecting” to win tournaments? Course not, im sure they go in wanting to show progress in each tournament so that ONE DAY maybe they can win on merit. England should learn from the smaller teams as they themselves are a VERY SMALL TEAM in the grand scale of things.
But thats the worst part, England haven’t learning their lesson this year. Woy is banging on about being unlucky and needing luck. He even said he thought “maybe this was our year”
haha, OUR YEAR TO DO WHAT WOY? Win a major tournament without deserving it so we can all have a sing song about how great we are? FUCK THAT.
Its 2012 and England are SHIT, swallow that truth and maybe something can be done about it before the WC. You can’t cure anything without first diagnosing the problem and being methodical, but from the soundbites it seems England are gonna concentrate on rubbing rabbit feet and drinking beer until the next World Cup. So no changes there then.
No wonder England always go out on penalties, they play for the draw like non EPL sides in the early FA Cup rounds! Considering all the hype and chest beating, how pathetic is it that penalties are England’s only hope of beating PROPER footballing teams? I wouldn’t mind so much if England FC could just admit they are a small fish in a big pond I’d actually be more inclined to support them, but all the grand-standing and the delusion and the lying through the teeth isn’t palatable for a bloke like me. Until England get a reality check, and stop editing footage so John Terry and Parker are on screen every five minutes, I can’t support that pile of self aggrandising shitty propaganda.
BTW – anybody hear the BBC comment about “short dark furry moles?” spying on the England team? Or the comments about a “reject West Ham” player before he scored the winner, or the comments about another Italian players wife? Ha, you lot just concentrate on not playing like a conference side in International Tournaments aye? Fucking Useless pieces of biased shit.
Roll on August FFS
Portugal have moutinho, veloso and meireles. Not the most spectacular but they are solid, they give the creative Ronaldo and nani the platform to perform and they are far superior distributors of the ball when compared to the hapless parker and overrated gerrard. I agree that asking Rooney to man-mark pirlo is foolish, the italian is clever with and without the ball, he glides across the pitch with class, pinging passes accurately and precisely. He does everything effortlessly because he’s a technician with the ball. Rooney isn’t the most tactically aware player, he’s not disciplined and loves to roam around, he’d never have done what park did at the san-siro and why should he have to and then be relied on heavily to instigate attack. Teams knows he’s england’s best hope and with mostly donkeys around him, they shut him down easily.
Until england totally revamp the team then they’ll continuously have problems. The likes of carrick should be trusted. cleverly, wilshere, oxlade and other quality young players emerging should have the team built around them. Players that embrace technical football. Time for workman like milner, parker, carroll, downing e.t.c to be dumped. Place welbeck, Rooney, walcott and any other quality attacking players up top. Fuck pragmatism woy, play football.
only in english football will a supposed attacking player be placed on the pitch to protect the full-back. This is a disadvantage, it takes away the attacking threat and place emphasis on worrying about the opponent. If we don’t want full-backs exposed then apply tactics that brings solidity whilst also being flexible enough when going forward. 4-4-2 will have to be scrapped and about time too.
bRed – You seriously think Fergie doesn’t know anything about tactics and is just a man motivator. If that were the case Redknapp would have won loads of titles. Fergie was winning titles with Aberdeen when Quieroz was still at school.
Hodgson done what he could, with a very limited squad. He identified England’s weakness, because he is actually one of England’s better coaches. He knew the likes of Gerrard and Parker can’t control games. Defend deep, and try play on the counter attack is what he tried to do. Until England produce ball playing CM’s, this will always be the outcome for any England teams at major tournaments. Wilshere and Cleverley should be 2 of England’s midfield at the next WC. If they get there, of course.
Furthermore, as good as Rooney can be, you can’t build a team around him at international level. Even Ronaldo and Messi have struggled to carry their national teams at this level. You only as good as the players around you. Always loved that quote!
Anyone looking at the Bilbao game as Fergie being tactically poor are kidding themselves. Fergie wanted out that tournament as soon as hence his team selection. He didn’t give a fuck about it.
Willie – Spot on about Young pal.
I fail to see how Fergie doesn’t get tactics. Yes he makes some odd decisions but he lives and breathes the game yet some on here think they know better. He has adapated with the game and been involved for 50 plus years now.
Willie – Ha. Spot on about CQ too. I hate the way some give him more credit than Fergie.
You know you’re a slow cumbersome cunt when a veteran pirlo jogs past you like a tortoise smoking marijuana. One idiot claimed carroll was outstanding last night, came on and held the ball. I must have been watching a different game. I can’t believe people compare him with heskey, that’s an insult on big emile. I’ve never seen the fucker run, he moves like a one wheeled cowboy wagon. 35 million washed down the drain, FERGIE would have used that wisely.
Why do the Mail insist on this Hunterlaar keeps snubbing United story? As if United would want this dogshit player:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2164359/Klaas-Jan-Huntelaar-joining-Manchester-United-Chelsea-according-Schalke.html
If woy is one of england’s better coaches then he’d have started carrick, parker wouldn’t even make the team and gerrard would make the bench at best. If you want to play counter attacking football then you still need quality, he took a workman Like team and hoping to achieve unlikely glory. Any coach that takes downing, starts milner and brings on henderson to change or control a game against pirlo is incompetent in my eyes. I respected woy and he’ll only gain it if he’s brave enough to eradicate the garbage in the team.
On Rooney, well you should never place hopes on any human let alone one single player. For Rooney to flouris you need players that are nearer to his level around him and if major changes aren’t made, he’ll continue to falter. Messi is 24 and with argentina’s unlimited talent rolling down the conveyor belt and if the southamericans find a decent manager, they’ll win a major title.
@KE – hey mate. Huntelaar is pretty ordinary. Ine of those players that never lived up to the hype. I cant believe somebody would write that shit when he was begging united to sign him when Madrid dispatched him like an used condom.
King eric – huntelaar has been linked with united for years now without FERGIE ever being interested. Good player but not one to impose himself at a big club.
Do some people on here actually watch the game or do they just simply write a load of bollocks?
Why is Young being slagged off now? Oh, must be because he had a bad tournament with England! for fucks sake, watch his performances in a United shirt both before and after his injury last season….And all this comparison with Nani is becoming tiresome, we have them both for Christ’s sake and if my memory is correct Nani was left out more times than non in favour of Young……Well it seems Fergie knows fuck all as well
King Eric – I do find that bizarre though? CQ is a top, top coach. It was Fergie who brought him in! Lets give the boss some credit for that, at least! Ronaldo was responsible for all United’s success? I totally disagree, but I do respect the point they’re making. Who brought him in? The old man! Listen, tactics isn’t Fergie’s greatest strength. That’s why he’s had Archie Know, Brian Kidd, Steve McClaren and CQ as number two’s. All great coaches. That doesn’t mean he’s clueless, though.
Hodgson is without doubt one of England’s better coaches. He had the balls to prove himself in other leagues. Capello also left out Carrick. We as United fans, can never understand this. We see things with Red tinted glasses on. Carrick should have went to the Euros. That has no baring on Hodgson’s ability as a coach. As an England manager, there’s always pressure on who gets picked for the national team. From Sir Bobby Robson’s time, to dopey Sven in charge. The biggest issue for me here isn’t Carrick being left out, but Rio’s exclusion. That, I want answers too.
@King Eric
I’ve read a lot of your posts and honestly like your updates esp regarding young players coming through.
While I disagree with your view on SAF’s tactical nous, I’m not saying he’s completely clueless. Big difference there. There’s much to admire about SAF, especially his philosophy on an attacking brand of football.
However, when Utd were leaking goals in the Champions League, SAF brought in CQ to try to ingrain a more continental way of playing. In any case, SAF hasnt been as involved in training as before (his own words btw). CQ’s departure has only shown Phelan up to be sorely lacking as an assistant manager.
@ kanchelskis, I actually think Moyes is rather tactically adept. But good points there.
cedars – Who is slagging young off? read the points made well, it’s simply a fact that nani and valencia are superior players. As much as you don’t like it and you don’t like the rhythm of the music being played, football is a game of comparisons and i see absolutely no issue with that.
Young is good, nani is significantly more impressive and valencia more consistent. They’re bound to play more games and it’s up to young to prove he’s better, in fact it’s up to all players to step up in order to keep their place.
Nani is not good defensively on 4-4-2 formation, that’s why we bought Tony V and then Ashley Young. Remember Nani’s defensive error vs spurs few years back?
But he’s lack of defensive won’t be noticable if united play him on 4-2-3-1. As one of 3 players behind striker.
Or on 4-3-3 formation as one of 3 forwards like what Portugal used to play.
Come on Portugal!
Thanks for that Willie……..Your question regarding the exclusion of Rio will be passed on to the proper authorities……. Jimmy James will be getting back to you shortly with a reply!
As for downing……..you have to fill a squad up. He had a poor season with the dippers. My theory on that though, Hodgson was trying placate Liverpool after his disaster at the vermin. Hence, the inclusion of Martin Kelly, for footballing reasons….
Yeah hodgson has proved himself alright, failing at all big clubs he’s managed and coaching abroad at viking fc in scandinavia does not make you better, having tactical nous and proving it on the and stage does and he’s failed yet again with his conservative pragmatic style. If woy is england’s best coach then there’s a problem. I can be accused of many things but having a red tinted glasses on is not one of them. Yes carrick has been overlooked by several managers but that’s no bearing on his ability, it’s more to do with his quiet cold personality, he won’t demand a start and isn’t egotistic. As a central midfielder, carrick is admired for his ability to control a game, something gerrard and parker can only dream of. He’s like scholes, english fans never admire players with technique.
It’s complex as to why rio got left out. I’m sure sir cuntsea terry will have something to say.
Samuel
Congratulations mate, you’ve just reinvented gun powder! ha ha ha……Player comparisons is part of the game? No shit!
I was specific to the tiresome comparisons being made between Nani and Young…….The latter in my opinion has a better all round game
So you take a player as poor as downing to fill a gap, that’s uncle woy’s tactical genius move? deary me. No wonder why everyone laughs, bet spain took mata to wash the dishes.
Cedars – comparisons may be tiresome but it will come up again and again, that’s football. If we don’t debate about this then football will turn into a game of croquet. All i’m saying is, nani is the best winger united have, young doesn’t come close to the portuguese technically but ashley is undoubtedly a good player and a player that will contribute in the squad, no one is denying is ability but other wingers are better, it’s not a negative on him.
Hodgson is a very good coach. Didn’t say he was the best though. Trying reading a post. He done a great job with Switzerland. Got them to the WC. First time in ages they had made a major tournament. You can’t always measure success by winning trophies. Moyes is a prime example of that. Hasn’t won a thing at Everton, but still highly regarded. Mata washing dishes? That’s brilliant retort….
Samuel
Fair enough, technically speaking Nani may have superior technical abilities, still I am only referring to the technical side of things……….Wait are we comparing cars here? ha ha ha
Willie
Deary me, stop being daft mate
Willie
Another thing, have to disagree on Moyes, I do not think he’s technical enough
How the fuck do you know what English fans like? Are you doing a survey? Lol. England have failed, because the coaching is flawed. His tactical move? You fill up a squad. Jones never featured either. 23 players make a squad. I wouldn’t have Downing anywhere any squad, but that’s just me!
My Red tinted glasses are lovely. Got them at Spec savers for a knockdown price.
My 2 wishes for the EUROs was that the United lads came back without being blamed for something and uninjured.
Think I am 0-2 then.
with Ashely Young and Rooney being blamed by segments and Phil Jones injured, albeit recovering.
Actually have no problem with Eng, France (Patrice) and any other team going out as soon as posible so that our lads get a good break in and a solid preseason would be a bonus.
Also, don’t confuse a good coach, with a great manager. It’s not the same. Now, I’m talking to myself! Come back Sammy and Cedars!
Hodgson had very little time to do anything but still have to question why inferior players were picked ove Carrick and Rio,this team has run it’s course needs dismantling,the core of this English have played together a long time and have been failures
Willie, I am always around mate………Just look behind you….
spooky shit
Didnt we lose 1-4 to M’borough when Carlos Queiroz was still around??
That was Fergie’s fault.
If Rooney Plays as bad as he did last night next season i hope he gets dropped he was a disgrace last night absoulutly brutal
The revisionism is now blowing full-speed.
Ingerland did NOT lose to Italy over 120 minutes – yet all the online papers can yak about is how dominant Andrea Pirlo was for the Italians. True that – BUT for all his possession and midfield domination, his team didn’t score over 120 minutes of open play.
This kind of after-the-fact, know-it-all journalism is reminiscent of the cum-fest after Shitty “won” the EPL – not because they had more points after 38 matches but because they “won” the tie-breaker. Yet, reading the post-season reviews makes it seem like UTD were the equal of, say, CSKALondon or LiverPoo – twenty or thirty points adrift.
“Yeah hodgson has proved himself alright, failing at all big clubs he’s managed ”
Hogwash. He’s managed at just two big clubs and he’s not considered a failure at Inter and we all know at Liverpool just wasn’t a good fit.
And Hodgson had good international experience, which helped. I agree there’s not much of a choice of good English managers but listen to the ex-pro’s of England talk about football. For every Gary Neville there’s 50 Shearer’s. The way foreign player’s talk about the game is completely different to the way our players do.
Yeah but that Boro game was one of 2 times we conceded more than 3 goals in the five seasons CQ was around. Something that’s happened twice in 11-12 and 4 times in total since he left.
CQ’s time has passed. People are forgetting he walked out on United twice? I wouldn’t mind a shake up in that department, but there’s more than CQ out there who could do the job.
Not saying it has to be CQ willie. But imo there’s no denying the facts that a) We were more solid defensively when he was around and b) We need someone with fresh ideas next to Fergie again.
I see a few posts saying Fergie may not be as good tactically as he is at other things. I think a lot of people are getting our performances in Europe last season get to them. While not discounting Queiroz’s role in winning us the champions league the fact is we have reached 2 finals since he left. Along the way we beat Mourinho’s Inter and Ancelotti’s Chelsea. We lost to van Gaal’s Bayern on goal difference and would have got past them if not for Rafael’s red card. There’s 3 managers you’d probably consider tactically better than Fergie. We battered Milan 7-2. Park man marking Pirlo in that game was a tactical mastercalss. We thumped Arsenal 4-1 in the 2009 semis. In Barca though we ran into a different beast. I think we could have tried something different in 2009 final but last year they were at the peak of their abilities and we had absolutely no chance. Fletch was injured, Ando had just returned to action in the second leg of the semis after a lengthy injury layoff and Scholes was having a bad season. Which left us with just Giggs and Carrick to rely on in midfield. Last season’s failure in Europe was due to a combination crippling injuries, complacency and our inability to combat the high tempo pressing game of the likes of Bilbao and Ajax. I fully expect Fergie to address these issues and expect us to do well in the champions league this season. If Fergie is not the best tactically, he’s definitely not far off the best.
Costas – I’d say we need a bloody midfielder first! The likes of Vidic and Rio are older now. It’s a different team from the 08 side. As I say though, maybe Fergie does need fresh ideas on the coaching front. What we don’t need, is scapegoats. Phelan seems easy to bash. Not saying you’ve done that btw lol. I’m looking for a more compact United this season. More organized obviously. No good having all this attacking talent, if the midfield and defense are all over the place.
But we still conceded 34 goals that season, wasn’t really good record (at least if u compare with 33 goals this season)
I’d also remember CQ’s reign in R.Madrid in 2003/04, his team conceded 54 goals, was not good record for a supposed brilliant defensive coach IMHO…
@TheCANTONA
Yeah, but it’s a better record compared to the 37 goals we conceded last season.
With Vidic fit I might add. Plus, our best season in terms of defence in the Premiership was 07-08 with 22 goals. If you look back at the total amount of goals conceded in CQ’s 5 seasons and the 5 seasons without him (including 03-04), the numbers are in his favor.
As for his Real tenure, I could chalk that down to a number of reasons (first season at such a high profile job, the loss of Makelele, the demand for the Galacticos to play attacking football), but the truth is, CQ just wasn’t good enough as manager. I am a firm believer of that. But he did click very well with Fergie. Mainly because his ideas were going through a filter, but also because he was someone that would challenge Fergie on some of his choices. Something that I seriously doubt happens today.
@willie
Actually feel free to call me a Phelan basher, lol. I’ve done it directly and indirectly. I admire his loyalty, but like I said above, I doubt he ever has a word with the boss about a weird selection. I hope you are right about next season. We need to go back to basics and remember to defend as a team. We can’t keep sacrificing just to make up for weaknesses elsewhere. Like we did when Young was playing instead of Nani in order for Evra to get cover or like we did when Berba was on the bench because we had to play 3 CMs for protection.
Welcome home lads. At last you’re all away from those fucking cunts and you can all now concentrate on more pressing matters. Hilarious listening to all the pricks saying the alky cunt should have started instead of Rooney last night. Ignorant cunts seem to overlook the fact that Danny and Rooney bagged the winners against Sweden and Ukraine respectively that won the group. Had it not been for those winners, Sweden would have won the group ahead of France based on the head to head and Ingerlund would have been eliminated in the group stages with 3 points from 3 games. These morons also seem to forget that the gypo cunt almost contrived to fuck things up against Sweden as his foul lead to their equaliser. The only impact that cunt made last night was a coming together with most of their players. Thug. Thank fuck that’s all over now and we (that’s the royal we) can relieve ourselves from the excitable cunts tooting their car horns sporting cheap Ingerlung flags and wing mirror covers. United > Ingerlund
Rooney was sh*t
Costas – You did give Phelan a hard time? We’ll keep that a secret……
Listen, even if England won the cup, they’re still going to boo him anyway. In the same manner whether he’s a scapegoat or not. Nothing less.