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PIK Update

News has emerged today that the Glazer family will pay off £220m PIK loan.

Have they sold a stake of the club to raise the money? Have they sold off another of their assets? Or have they refinanced or borrowed more against the club?

Details are still pretty murky but this potentially could be very good news. But then potentially very bad news too.

AndersRed, The Telegraph, and The Guardian.

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. debaser says:

    I missed a credit card payment once.
    My interest skyrocketed past 27% interest.
    So what did I do….
    applied for a card with a different bank w 8% interest and shifted the balance

    that said after seeing all the picks of the whole Glazer family
    they are an ugly bunch
    very ghoulish looking too which is kinda ironic after all they are sucking the life blood out of the club

    MUST is absolutely right, its time the Glazers fucking came out and made a statement on what the hell their intentions are with our club.

  2. StatesideAussie says:

    @willierednut … “Not sure what more United fans could have done tbh, once we floated on the stock market, we were fair game to be bought out. ” Good point, and one that seems to be forgotten by those with short memories. I still remember the day I heard that we had floated. I remember, very clearly, wondering who would buy us and where that would lead. I also remember the day I heard it was the Glazers, and people were starting to object, and I thought to myself: “Well, wtf did you expect?” The minute the club was floated, we lost all say. Sorry, but there it is.

  3. YorYor says:

    @mattbw7, you seem incapable of having a decent conversation if all you can do is ask people to fuck off. Perhaps you should apply your own advice to yourself.
    If you’re a promoter of negativity and feel delighted in doom-mongering, by all means do it but stick your own finger in your ass and not point it around.

  4. Paul H says:

    mattbw, i’m tongue in cheek re: the sombreros but I am surprised that more folks aren’t openly delighted by the news.

  5. willierednut says:

    Paul H – There is a massive party in Manchester, take it you didn’t get an invite?

  6. mattbw7 says:

    YorYor says:
    Let’s not speculate too much, hurts the brain unnecessarily. I for one don’t have that many zeroes to the left of the decimal point. But if I convert them into Zimbabwean dollars…
    whats that about a decent conversaton you fucking halfwit.

  7. mattbw7 says:

    Paul H says:
    mattbw, i’m tongue in cheek re: the sombreros but I am surprised that more folks aren’t openly delighted by the news.

    I know Paul I was having a laugh, though sadly you do get quite a few new shirt and G&G scarf combos near me and I sit in the Stretford End but that’s football fans for you most of them either haven’t a clue or don’t give a fuck, I mean if you look at regular contributers to debates on here we do seem a small bunch no matter what your view point is.

    We may be a sizeable minority but we are still a monority, MUST brag about 160,000 plus members but only 200 show up to a protest in Manchester sad really, the only true constant is the team and I’m at least glad of that, give us a wave on Saturday.

  8. mattbw7 says:

    StatesideAussie sorry but you have it wrong UTD are only compelled by the current TV contract because its signed, the clubs allow the PL to negotiate collectively on thier behalf not the other way around. UTD could I suppose be thrown out of the PL but the problem there, is what excuse could they have its that that would be illegal as they would be excersising their right under EC compettiton law to seek thier own deals and lets face the PL needs UTD as well.

    The EC threatened the PL with legal action if again sold all its live games to one bidder hence why ESPN have live games also, this the thin end of the wedge, it happens in france, italy and spain so its hardly unheard of.

    And while we are on about the PL it was supposed to reduce to 18 teams to a produce a stronger league and b to help the national team by reducing the amount of fixtures, the reason why its never happened is cos its the teams that have the power, no PL club chairman is going to vote for a smaller league cos that means two more of them will be sweating under thier collar.

    As I’ve said before we are either a business or we arent

  9. xol says:

    I’ve heard enough anti – MUST crap from the loud minority, making out that a whole fucking stand of paying, passionate and vocal Stretford End regulars want to damage the club.

    FUCKING PISS ANTS, bugger off back to your boring bloody financial plasic world.

  10. StatesideAussie says:

    mattbw7 … I guess we will never agree on this, then. But in actual face, the PL is a corporation that is owned by the 20 clubs who make it up — they are legally the PL’s shareholders. Each has an equal vote (plus the FA has power of veto in certain things, including rule changes). No-one forced UTD to sign up. We did it because at that time, we wanted to. I guess we could pull out, but then we would be in breach of the existing contract, which we signed voluntarily. There’s a big difference, in law, between signing a contract of your own free will, and signing one because you have no choice. Big difference.

    As for whether the existing agreement is legal, the EC has its own ideas, and some of them are pretty kooky (think “bananas” and “curvature”). However, the EC ruling did not result in selling TV rights to ESPN, as you say. It was the EC ruling that resulted in breaking Sky’s monopoly, and resulted in Setanta picking up some rights. ESPN only came into the picture later, when Setanta collapsed.

    But forcing the PL to sell to multiple bidders is not the same as ruling the whole idea of a collective agreement illegal. In fact, the PL’s practice of selling rights collectively has been investigated more than once, by both the Office of Fair Trading and the UK Restrictive Practices Court, and in both cases, it was ruled to be OK. So that question has been asked and answered, legally.

    I agree the PL should be reduced to 18 teams, or even 16. Get the dross out! But your statement about why the PL chairman won’t vote for it is nonsense, because the chairman doesn’t have the casting vote. As explained earlier (and as can easily be verified at Wikipedia and elsewhere), the PL is owned by the clubs, who all get an equal vote. And in this case, the FA would probably have a vote too. The chairman is there to facilitate meetings and run them, but he is not a dictator. I don’t know what the PL articles of association require, in terms of a majority decision, but but I would imagine that none of the minow clubs would vote for that proposal, and that together, that would be enough to defeat the idea.

  11. mattbw7 says:

    No need to mention Setanta really as Im well aware of them however the point is that the PL where forced to sell a portion of live games to a third party, ie not SKY

    I said a PL club chairman as in each individual chairman of a PL club, cant believe I have to explain this.

    Thanks for commenting on bananas and cuvature if thats the level you want to take it to ok,

    Its not a question of the legality or otherwise of the PLs position as it will be tested again when the next contract is up, the point difference Iam making is UTD could go it alone and thier is nothing the PL could or would do about it, not in the least because at least 5 other clubs would follow suit rendering any PL action useless and my real overiding point is are we a business or are we not.

  12. RedScot says:

    @Bruce thomas @ 12.57…….you have been reading my posts on here mate.Regards James Mckenna of the spirit of shankly blog and what they achieved. Like your thinking though……….if only!
    This shitting of bricks is it gonna develop the improved south stand.? lol
    As normal xol…… spot on if we dont have a focal point how do you collect the information and keep the “two hundred” protesters together.
    King Eric is right though, at the present point in time its all speculation and a variety of guesswork.
    As we will never publicy see their financial information in the states its all a minefield to navigate through.

    The socialism I believe in as everyone working,for each other,everyone having a share of the rewards.
    Its the way i see football,the way I see life. Pull together for this aim, we will be rewarded.
    Get the Glazer out of United.

  13. StatesideAussie says:

    mattbw7 … the misunderstanding over what you meant by PL chairman was an honest one (given that the PL itself does have its own chairman), so fuck off with your attitude. Spent the best part of my life bandying words with politicians, businessmen and assorted others, do don’t lecture me. The bananas and curvature remark was meant as a light-hearted comment on the bureaucrats who run the EU, so you can get fucked on that score too.

    If you think that because at least five other clubs would follow us in this sort of action, I agree (and I already said so — I even named the most likely ones). But those clubs would be ostracized by the others, and by the FA, and by the European leagues/organizations too. If you think that six clubs running around playing against each other, and only each other, constitutes a marketable business, then it’s you who doesn’t know the meaning of the word “business”, pal.

    Fuck off. You’re a joke.

  14. YorYor says:

    @mattbw7, exactly – so it’s either you adore negativity and doom-mongering, or you’re Zimbabwean and feel strongly against your national currency being joked about. If it’s the latter, I apologise. If it’s the former, you can take your comments and opinions and shove it up yours.
    So you’re a genius – let’s see you bail out the club with the great ideas you have. Take what’s left of your brain and cherish it.

  15. Corea says:

    Guys, just help me out. Why people in UK aren’t able to watch 3pm kickoffs and the company from US have the rights to broadcast it.

  16. YorYor says:

    It’s all about the package that the broadcasting company negotiated with the PL isn’t it?
    Naturally, having it “live” would cost more, and there are lots of mechanics in the background such as the perceived popularity of the league (by the PL) etc.
    My guess is that the PL takes the population, apply some complex formula to it to get an estimated viewership, followed by what they expect each viewer to pay (dependent on the national average wage etc, if at all), and the amount of commercial slots for the local broadcasting corp to sell, and then come up with an initial price (along with some buffer) for the broadcasting company to base negotiations on.
    But that’s just my guess.

  17. YorYor says:

    Oh, not that it explains why you don’t get live kickoffs… perhaps it was because no one’s willing to pay… Doesn’t Sky do it anymore?

  18. mattbw7 says:

    yar yar and aussie
    You both made incorrect and silly statements, I merely pointed them out to you, though I give you some credit yar yar as to why there no live 3pm games you almost got it though the formula is probably less complex, its viewes that the 3pm kick off times are the most traditional time for supporters to attend matches and if live games where habitually shown it would over time reduce attendance, not only in thePL but the rest of the divisions in england and scotland.

    Hey Aussie why do you feel the need to comment on how you have spent your life bandying words with politicians, businessmen and assorted others are we supposed to be impressed and take you more seriously.

    Anyway gents will you be attending the game on Saturday!!!

  19. Corea says:

    Yeah, that’s why people who aren’t rich enough to go to the stadium just sit home and listen to the radio ?

  20. mattbw7 says:

    But those clubs would be ostracized by the others, and by the FA, and by the European leagues/organizations too

    Statside Aussie
    So are Barca, RM, Bayern, Lyons etc ostracized by thier own associations or uefa, No.

  21. Red Devil says:

    “Hey Aussie why do you feel the need to comment on how you have spent your life bandying words with politicians, businessmen and assorted others are we supposed to be impressed and take you more seriously.”
    Lol… :D

    For a minute I thought it was Paul H….turns out it wasn’t…. :D

  22. mattbw7 says:

    Hey Corea
    I’ve done my time at that, it does help living 30 mins tops from the stadium but you dont have to be rich to attend games

  23. Corea says:

    mattbw7 – yeah. as well as travelling to London to away games. To be honest getting sky is always not the cheapest scenario. Although you can go to the pub and watch the game from there. Not sure though what are the laws in Britain concerning showing the games at the pub.

  24. Corea says:


    of course he was fast.
    laughing because of the disbelief of some and the pride of the other bunch.

  25. RedManWalking says:

    Anyone heard about a new rule by the UEFA on the wage of players???

  26. mattbw7 says:

    Corea says:
    mattbw7 – yeah. as well as travelling to London to away games. To be honest getting sky is always not the cheapest scenario. Although you can go to the pub and watch the game from there. Not sure though what are the laws in Britain concerning showing the games at the pub.

    Sadly away games are out, I have a family so time and cost are a factor plus UTD operate a loyalty pot put simply if you aren’t already in it you’re unlikely to get an away ticket in anycase.
    Pubs often show away games at 3pm by illegally tapping into european broadcast networks

  27. Corea says:

    @mattbw7 – the same situation at my place. the only difference is that the law in this field is always 5-10 years in the past compared to European Union so most of the time i don’t have to bother whether i would be able to watch the games. I’ve had sky uk at home for a couple of months now, so for 3pm kickoffs i am left with internet or the pubs where they have those European broadcasters.
    The ultimate aim though is to come to OT of course and i think next few years is the term.

  28. mattbw7 says:

    where in the world are you Corea

  29. Corea says:

    @mattbw7 – Moldova. Near Romania. I hope to obtain Romanian citizenship sooner rather than later so getting visa won’t be the problem and the rest is pie.

  30. mattbw7 says:

    Wow, that is some traveling, if you ever do get the opportunity to get here you must do it, I was at the Liverpool game last year and about a dozen guys from the United Supporters Club in Salonika where in attendance, all different age groups and with thier own jackets embroidered with the name of thier fan club, it was great to see, how anyone can ever denigrate what some people call day trippers when they visit our club dismays me, I think its terrific that fans from all over the world make an effort to see a game.

    Good luck and hope to see you soon

  31. Corea says:

    mattbw7 – tnx. but it’s a bit closer than coming from India for example. the problem is that sometimes you should sacrifice drinking an odd beer sometimes for a year in order to attend a single game. i guess it must be a weak excuse.

  32. Paul H says:

    November 17, 2010 at 9:40
    Red Devil says:
    For a minute I thought it was Paul H….turns out it wasn’t….

    The bloody cheek of it…..

  33. mattbw7 says:

    we all have lives to lead and following UTD is only a part of it, I guess Im just fortunate I follow a club that is 30 mins by car from where I live, a small town called Chorley just north of Manchester. I must get on with some work for now but no doubt we’ll chat again soon.

  34. Red Devil says:

    Paul H

    I’ve seen you describe in great detail your high living and high company you keep before….Perhaps a trip to sunny Barbados brings back some things to memory fella….

  35. willierednut says:

    Red Devil – Lets hope he stays there mate. Only joking Paul.

  36. YorYor says:

    @mattbw7, so you can have a decent conversation after all.
    To clarify, how is asking for some non-speculation a wrong/silly statement?

    On the 3pm live broadcast issue, I didn’t think the legislators were that archaic – seems like Singapore isn’t the only autocratic state that believes deprivation of alternatives is the best form of preservation (of revenue).
    Well, they can’t block/QoS every port on the internet, so eventually they will have to combat streaming. And fail miserably. By then, they will realise they are losing out on TV revenue, and they will then want to have live broadcasts. Or prevent the sale of broadband services and force everyone to return to dial-up days.
    The only way to guarantee match attendance, is to value-add the experience, or give prepayment discounts. I wonder whether United will ever consider this – pay a discounted lump sum (ST+ticket prices for all home League Games and forecast of Carling/FA/UCL games, less 10-20%) and automatically get tickets to every single home game. Lose 10-20% revenue but get money right at the start of the season. For away games, allocation is already tight, so I don’t think there would be any concern over not selling them. Until the day all grounds in England can seat 40-50K that is.

  37. Red Devil says:

    Hey there willie mate…. yeah…sunny barbados ain’t a bad place to be! :)

  38. Mozza79 says:

    “But then potentially very bad news too”……

    I’m sorry but unless they’re paying off the PIKs by borrowing money to do so at an even higher interest rate then there is no way this could be bad news. Of course doing that would be absolutely insane and pointless so it’s fair to say that’s not what they’re doing. If they’re borrowing money at a lower interest rate from elsewhere to pay them off then it’s good news regardless of whether the new loan is secured against the club or not. The PIKs may not have technically been secured against the club but to default on them would have resulted in the club being affected because it was owned by the Glazers. This is a reduction of our overall debt and increases our financial fluidity so in no way shape or form can this be bad news for the club.

  39. Paul H says:

    Lol. Well most of the time it’s sunny Manchester for me, where I haven’t been rubbing too many shoulders recently. Although I did spot our captain and his lad in the local supermarket recently :)

  40. mattbw7 says:

    Hi Yor Yor
    Even though UTD arent quite selling out every game they are still at around 75k in the stadium most days, only the early stages of Carling Cup suffer but thats more to do with the level of opponent and the type of team SAF puts out. So the reason you will never see live games screened legally in the UK at 3pm on a Saturday is to protect those teams that get lesser attendances especially those in the lower leagues where many will have a fave prem team and if its bad weather they may take the option of say watching a big PL game rather than going to support thier team and if you get people breaking those kind of habits it wouldn’t be good.

  41. YorYor says:

    Ah yes, I forgot about the lower leagues. Makes good sense then.

  42. RedScot says:

    Has anyone got any information on this “Springfield forward” a financial institution that seemingly have just replaced the current piks for the Glazers, with a slightly less punishing interest rate.

    Just reading on the Telegraph site or is this just more speculation.

    Anybody shed any light on this please?

    Catch any updates later, Cheers.

  43. Corea says:

    @mattbw7 – yeah, i guess championshit games are played at this time.. but i just can’t believe supporters in England would choose the other side in the premiership insted of going to support the local side. It can’t be about England, can it ?

  44. Corea says:

    *championship of course

  45. mattbw7 says:

    it is Corea, the reason live football is not transmitted in the UK at 3pm on a Saturday is to protect attendances in all divisions, why are you so surprised at that

  46. willierednut says:

    And for the longest time, you’ll always find a bar, who’ll show premier league football, though they’re trying to stop it, cunts.


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