Oliver Holt, The Mirror.
What a shame Liverpool chose to couch their decision not to appeal in inflammatory language that continued to insist Suarez had done nothing wrong. Suarez has admitted calling Patrice Evra “negro”. To persist with the argument, as he and the club are doing, that this was a term of endearment is not just “incredible”, as the tribunal found; it is also laughable.
The fight against racism, or racist language, in sport is bound to be uncomfortable when it affects a club someone supports or represents. Liverpool and Suarez had the opportunity to apologise on Tuesday, move towards restoring a damaged reputation and emerge with some dignity from this horrible affair. They chose not to take it.
Martin Samuel, The Daily Mail. Read the article in full or these snippets:
So Liverpool deigned to do the world a favour and will not appeal Luis Suarez’s eight-match ban. How decent of them. Maybe they’ll make a T-shirt telling us all about it; or a hat. Not a white, pointy one, obviously…
…Letting the football men run the football club is an admirable stance, but there comes a time when an issue lies beyond the manager’s call. Whoever was left to mastermind Liverpool’s stance over Suarez has been proven horribly inept in this arena…
…Suarez put out a statement on Tuesday night, which included the remarkable assertion: ‘I will carry out the suspension with the resignation of someone who hasn’t done anything wrong.’ So if he was found innocent, he would have been innocent; but if guilty, he is innocent, still. At the outset Suarez said the verdict would decide which of the parties had to apologise. Apparently, like much of the evidence, that stance has since changed…
Stuart James, The Guardian. Read the article in full or these snippets:
At last Liverpool have seen sense. At least that was the initial reaction when news broke that the club would not be appealing against the eight-match ban and £40,000 fine imposed on Luis Suárez for racially abusing Patrice Evra. What we soon learned, however, was that Liverpool had no intention of showing any contrition, Suárez would not be apologising and, in the eyes of the club, the Football Association is to blame for damaging the reputation of a man that was found to have used the word “negro” seven times…
…Liverpool should have spent less time worrying about discrediting Evra and more time getting their testimonies right. Suárez, after being asked the same question six times in the hearing, was forced to admit it was not true that he had pinched Evra to defuse the row, as he had claimed in his witness statement…
…Damien Comolli, the club’s director of football, and Dirk Kuyt, the Liverpool midfielder, changed their statements after realising that Suárez had given a different account to them. It is cringeworthy reading Kuyt’s attempt to deal with this discrepancy in his witness statement. “I am aware that LS will state in evidence that what he actually said in response to the remark from PE was (translated into English) “Why, black?” or “Why, negro?” and I am perfectly happy to accept that this is what he said…
…According to Liverpool’s statement before the Manchester City game, the mistakes have been made by the commission rather than the Anfield club or Suárez. If Liverpool truly believed that was the case they would have appealed. Instead they took the sensible decision before pressing the self-destruct button. Again.
Darren Lewis, The Mirror. Read the article in full or these snippets:
It is fascinating that, in a week when we have reached the conclusion of a high-profile court case following a man’s death because of the colour of his skin, football fans – and one of the country’s highest profile clubs – are still defending a man found guilty of using a racially offensive term. As a black man I can tell you this: There is no context in which any term referring to the colour of my skin during an argument can be termed as anything other than racist…
…Liverpool are a great club with good people, good administrators and many, many good fans. But they have got it wrong on this occasion from start to finish. They demanded the written reasons after the guilty verdict was announced last month but have gone on to dismiss those, maintaining they are right and the rest of world was wrong. Even then, in their incendiary latest statement they claim to be a “leader on taking a progressive stance on race issues”. But privately the anti-racism groups in this country that I have spoken to are horrified at the Reds’ intransigence on Suarez…
Phillip Cornwall, F365. Read the article in full or these snippets:
Any attempt at an explanation based on cultural misunderstanding had to come after the word “sorry”. And not as in, “I’m sorry but you’re completely wrong.”
The failure to offer any form of apology, even as a precursor to a rejection of the charges of repeated use of the word, was a mistake – even if Suarez’s version is, in fact, accurate. Kenny Dalglish breaking the requested silence regularly while the investigation went on, talking as if Evra should be in the dock if his player were acquitted, was a mistake – even if Suarez’s version is, in fact, accurate. Treating the Uruguayan as some kind of political victim needing help from the sale of benefit T-shirts was a mistake – even if Suarez’s version is, in fact, accurate.
Man Utd News 24/7
Scouse have no class
Disgraceful Bastards. Sinking to depths I didn’t know existed.
Diabolical behaviour from the club and player.
coward dipper cunts
Bloody scousers…………….they have made me a Racist……….now I m gonna always think that Scousers are the worst of the lot ……….
This is a case of adding-insult-to-injury. Are the inmates really-and-truly running the asylum ?
If they keep this up it’s only a matter of time before the clubs sponsors start to have second thoughts.
I am curious about how black baseball players from the Red Sox organization, also owned by John Henry, would feel abou the club’s support of one using racist language. Surely David Ortiz wouldn’t find the use of the word appropriate in the manner that LS used it, no?
It really beggars belief that LFC continue with their diatribe and blame shifting. Who is ‘advising’ Dalgleish or is he going maverick?
@Mitko, they’re mostly of South American descent and probably have at least a 4th grade education so they understand that calling someone black isn’t racist.
Lindegaard, Valencia, Evra, Carrick, Jones, Giggs, Rooney, Nani, Welbeck, Hernandez, Berbatov
Fuck Bugs Bunny. We have a tough game tonight.
Lindegaard – Valencia; Carrick; Jones; Evra – Nani; Rooney; Giggs; Welbeck – Hernandez; Berbatov
line-up is out..
jesus what is that?
Rio travels and doesn’t play? Deary me.
Fucks sake. That’s it. Let’s buy 10 CB now during the window.
ha wrong team!
They didn’t want to win the match last night.I always think they’re a big club they’re professional before they show there true colours again.
Good thing Rio travelled to the game and was fit…
Can’t put into words how ridiculous this injury crisis has become. The line up says it all.
WOW, Lebomanc got her wish hahaha, she wanted Berba, Hernandez and Rooney to start together!
getting a bit sick of hearing and reading about this suarez case. He’s a racist, liverpool are classless, and the media are an embarrassment. lets focus on United and the chase to retain our title.
Lingegaard, Valencia, Jones, Ferdinand, Evra, Nani, Carrick, Giggs, Park, Ronney, Berbatov
here’s the correct one.
Kooky King Kenny just said in his presser on Sky that the reason Suarez isnt a racist cunt is that his own wife calls him a negro as a term of endearment at home…
The correct one until the next one Zelh?
Now that looks like a more sensible line up.
can we stop talking about the dippers plz.so sick of hearing em all over the press.if we keep this up,we will be discussing more on their shit team rather than our own.
this is utd blog so lets discuss about the game tonight .
Costas – no this time it’s correct!
#MUFC bench: De Gea, Anderson, Hernandez, Welbeck, Rafael, Pogba
Ha?
Zelh.. Thanks for the line up mate. Rio playing fills me with confidence. Jones and Rio should take care of Ba comfortably. Parky is there to compensate for Sir Giggsy’s old legs and also to support Evra when he overlaps. Overall, a very workmanlike team deployed with skill and flair in the form of Nani and Berbatov.
Fucksake zelh! Heart attack here!!
May not be a popular opinion, but I am against dropping David De Gea. A bit uncharacteristic of the manager. We don’t want another Carroll/Howard situation on our hands do we? That being said, good luck Linde.
Oh and great to see Berba starting! First time he and Rooney have started together in attack since Anfield last march.
LFC is furious because the FA deliberately left out witness statements, interviews, written material and other evidence in it’s 115 page report. If it had included all this extra evidence it would have presented a more balanced view, however since the message the FA wanted to convey was “racism will not be tolerated” it published a report based on probabilities rather than a report that actually stated facts which would have allowed the media and the general pubic to decide for themselves.
LFC does not deny Suarez used the word “negro” and I am sure he has been advised not to use it again as it can be taken in the wrong way by some people. But it does not excuse the agenda of the FA that was determined to use this case as a message to FIFA and the world that it will not tolerate any forms of racism regardless if the racism is misconstrued and borne out of genuine ignorance.
There is always mitigation that should be taken into account when deciding an outcome of any case, the FA in it’s stubborness refused to take any into account and has shown it will go to any length to further it’s own cause even if it means destroying a player and clubs reputation.
This is why LFC is furious and I can assure you if it was a role reversal Ferguson and United would be just as furious with the FA.
zelh
Thanks pal, I have just made a fool of my self by sending a text to some friends with parts of your wrong line up. Do not worry about me though, its not the first time…that I make a fool of my self that is! hahaha
I smell cabbage
@mikearms – even if there was something FA have left out from the report for whatever reason – that does not legislate for them dragging Evra’s name thru the mud. If liverpool want to be angry with FA, that is fine. But where is the apology to the player? Since suarez has admitted to using the word, why not say sorry, like – our player did say it, did not mean it and is sorry for the offense it caused Evra. They never did that, did they?! which is why everyone is offended. There is a right way of doing things when someone has caused offense knowingly or unknowingly which LFC have shamefully not. It is too late now.
I waited untill the case was heard and the punishment and decission handed out BEFORE I made a rash judgement based on club loyalties and lack of youtube evidence for the general populus to take any evidence from. For it I was massacred – big deal.
Im happy the decission went the way it did. Suarez the goofy (can I use the term DAGO) (racist?) and that fucking AIDS riddled gummy drunk KKK has really put their club to shame. As if the football wasnt doing enough.
Mitko Berbatov
Good point mate, there wouldnt be much of a red sox organisation without Ortiz.
Kudos to durham and gough who tore the dippers a new one tonight. Fending off calls from scousers saying Evra has form of this. Durham said its bullshit. Even Tony Evans staunch liverpool fan is disgusted with the club. About time the cunts faced the backlash.
Had to laugh at Durham who said Spurs are now everyones favourite “second“ club having been the dippers before. Second clubs? What’s all that bollocks about. Silly cunt.
@mike Arms
Which statements were left out?
What did they say?
Let’s see the evidence or else it’s just silly conjecture/more blame shifting.
We expect no better from the Self-pity city. After all they shouldered no blame whatsoever for the previous woes which they inflicted upon themselves and English football. Kenny Dalglish has plumbed new depths in tunnel visioned immaturity. They have zero honour. Shame on them
Liverpool have come out of this looking like right pricks
anything not in the report was submitted to liverpools defence team, who agreed it didn’t need to be included because it wasn’t pertinent. The report says this. Unfortunately the dippers fans are so focused on trying to explain why he isn’t guilty that they are not even looking at the facts. Look at the footage. Look at the body language? Do thdy look like they’re being friendly? No. Suarez lied. The whole saga of saying the same thing to two people in two different languages and both mishearing the same thing is just ridiculous.
Bt you defend him with all your la coz he one of yousssse.
Till he goes somewhere else.
Probably the spanish or italian leagues where racism is not punished as severly (no thats not racist!!)
Seriously guys …. as a lawyer I really find the weight placed on the tribunals findings incredible. All the tribunal have said is on the evidence before them, they think that Evra’s version of events is more probably that Suarez’s. That is all. Despite any references to words such as “unreliable” or “incredible”.
It’s a bit like when you try to sue your neighbor for driving over your flowerbed and the judges say, sorry, but I think I believe the other guy’s story that actually you just forgot to water them, albeit in relation to a much more sensitive subject – but nevertheless the basis of the decision is the same.
A more common example is anyone who’s made a personal injury claim and gone to court. Judges always say that someone’s evidence is unreliable – it’s just a way to appeal proof a decision and can be easily be done when the evidence is being assessed on the balance of probabilities – much different when we’re in criminal trial mode and a fact actually needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Speaking of criminal trials – people are talking about this matter like it’s criminal conviction rather than an bloody FA tribunal which Utd fans will agree on past experience can often be a Kangaroo court. The fact that the CPS haven’t even sniffed at this (unlike JT!) illustrates the fact that there just isn’t evidence available to “definitively” say one way or another. Obviously we will all have our own views – it’s accepted that Suarez used the word “negro” (although Evra misunderstood this for a much worser word, which is understandable given that he’s French with no knowledge of South American spanish dialect), and whether this in itself is innocent naivety, unacceptable ignorance or much worse.
Fact is FA tribunals are not designed, set-up or able to deal with issues as complex and important as this. If they were then much of the nonsense that’s come out in the last fews weeks would have been avoided.
Mike Arms
It is you that has left out evidence and presented an unbalanced view.
Since the message you wanted to convey was not supported by the evidence, you lied
It is RIGHT for the FA to have a Racism agenda and be determined to not tolerate any forms of racism regardless if the racism is misconstrued and borne out of genuine ignorance.
There was mitigation which was taken into account when deciding an outcome of any case, You and Liverpool in your stubborness refuse to take any into account and have shown you will go to any length to further your own cause even if it means destroying a player and the League’s reputation.
There will never be a role-reversal, United views human rights as more important than football.
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Mike Arms – You are despicable. That your clear command of the English language was NOT put to good use reading the Findings, and accurately reflecting them is a tragedy. That you chose rather to eloquently lie repeatedly in order to defeat the ends of anti-racism is a crime.
Paul Joseph Goebbels was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He was known for his zealous oratory and anti-Semitism. He played a hand in the Final Solution, leading to the Holocaust.
Goebbels earned a Ph.D. in 1921, and rose to power in 1933. His first acts was the burning of books rejected by the Nazis. He produced a series of anti-Semitic films using modern propaganda techniques to psychologically prepare the people for aggressive warfare.
Goebbels and his wife Magda killed their six young children and then committed suicide.
Were you the 7th child, out of the house at the time?
Gotta admire the dippers fan. They still could type keyboard while they using their hand to close their eyes & ears. PRICKS!
It seems Evra is not a saint himself:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082524/Patrice-Evra-video-using-n-word-YoutTube.html
Kick It Out’s Lord Ouseley, who was chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality from 1993 to 2000, wrote in the Guardian: “Liverpool need to take a hard look at themselves and how they have responded to the complaint and the investigations into the allegations of abuse in the Patrice Evra/Luis Suarez case.
“Throughout the entirety of the proceedings, over the past three months, all we have heard are denials and denigration of Evra. Since the publication of the 115-page report of the findings of the FA’s independent commission, Liverpool’s vitriol has increased. Suarez’s attempt at a belated apology is nothing short of lamentable.”
“I cannot believe that a club of Liverpool’s stature, and with how it has previously led on matters of social injustice and inequality, can allow its integrity and credibility to be debased by such crass and ill-considered responses. Liverpool have been particularly hypocritical. You can’t on the one hand wear a Kick It Out T-shirt in a week of campaigning against racism when this is also happening on the pitch: it’s the height of hypocrisy. Liverpool players wore a T-shirt saying: ‘We support Luis Suarez’, seemingly whatever the outcome. This was a dreadful knee-jerk reaction. It stirs things up.”
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Piara Powar, executive director of Football Against Racism in Europe, believes the FA would be within its rights to charge Liverpool and its manager Kenny Dalglish over their handling of the situation.
“Liverpool have constantly undermined the investigation and its outcome,” he told BBC Sport. “They have been disrespectful to the FA and questioned its integrity and neutrality. If a manager had done that in a post-match interview the FA would have brought disrepute charges.”
It’s understood that the FA has no plans to charge either Liverpool or Dalglish.
If I was choosing a lawyer I don’t think I’d go for JJ, who grandly uses the word ‘incredible’ in order to challenge the weight being placed on the disciplinary panel’s findings against Suarez ,only to cavalierly dismiss the significance of the same word two sentences later, referring to the panel finding Suarez’s evidence ‘incredible’ on key matters. I see no grounds for denying the validity of the panel’s use of the word , or the other word he objects to, ‘unreliable’.
Much is being made of this ‘balance of probability’ issue by Liverpool apologists as though it’s a finely poised matter between the two chief protagonists, but any fair-minded reading of the report shows that the balance of probability is overwhelmingly in favour of Patrice Evra. It’s all very well saying it’s not a criminal trial it’s a civil proceeding with a lower threshold of proof, but the fact remains that this is the relevant body to deal with the issue, relating to FA regulations regarding behaviour on the pitch, not a criminal offence. The independent panel went to great lengths to take evidence from language specialists to test the validity of the Liverpool/ Suarez claims that the word ‘negro’ was used in a conciliatory way and has no derogatory connotations in South America. Given that the context of Suarez’s use of the word was an acrimonious confrontation after Suarez had spitefully kicked Evra on the knee, followed by clear attempts by Suarez to wind up Evra (which we could all see on live TV) , it’s hardly rocket science levels of complexity to regard the Suarez claim as ‘incredible’, not to say ‘laughable’. The report set out compelling reasons for why they found Suarez ‘unreliable’ as a witness and it strikes me that if Liverpool seriously believed there were any flaws in the findings they would appeal.
Incidentally, another reason not to choose JJ as a lawyer is the punctuation error in his very first line. In matters of law one likes one’s experts to be very precise when explaining things , with careful attention to fine detail. Amusingly, Liverpool FC are now blaming their own carefully chosen lawyer for presentational failings before the panel. ‘Incredible’, really. You couldn’t make it up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/05/luis-suarez-liverpool
GUARDIAN – Liverpool’s hypocrisy undermines anti-racism and our young people
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/05/luis-suarez-liverpool
JJ
When you use the term “as a lawyer” I can only presume that you want to be one if you grow up,
for you are surely not conversant in Law, interested in fact, a skilled debater or a careful composer of speech. Can you see the hypocrisy in lying to defend Suarez?
Race-row Manchester United defender Evra used the n-wordBy Charles Sale
Last updated at 9:56 AM on 5th January 2012
Comments (164) Share
Video showing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra using a similar n-word to the one at the centre of his racism case against Luis Suarez has emerged.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082524/Patrice-Evra-video-using-n-word-YoutTube.html#ixzz1icOk7PfC
OOPS!!! Well…well…well….What DO you know? Apparently Monsieur. Evra lives by the credo, “Do as I say and NOT as I do.”, eh, folks? I have NO doubt that you will figure out a way to defend this hypocrite, but I thought that you MIGHT be interested in seeing for yourselves that HE has no problem using the word by which he was ostensibly so righteously offended. It’s either right or it’s wrong. It can’t be both.
There’s an old saying that goes, “Be careful when you piss into the wind, because it may blow back in your face.” Don’t look now, but all of you self-righteous, holier-than-thou, Patrice Evra supporters are about to get a “golden shower”…
Barz
Are you not aware that black people sometimes refer to black people as ‘nigger’ ?
This happens all over the world.
Are you aware of what Suarez did? It is in no way similar to the video you link. Suarez racially abused Evra 7 times, and did it because Patrice is black. Suarez the coward thought he’d be able to hide behind a pretended ignorance, and lied throughout the sorry saga, twisting and changing his story and his defense.
You have much to learn, and I hope you learn it soon, for you are a harmful man.
Barz is just another lying scum dippers fan. What an idiot!!!
Didn’t Evra in his evidence say that he hated that word and would never use it? Does that not make him an unreliable witness?
@smartalex – isn’t is spelt niggah when black people are referring to each other? Doesn’t that make you as ignorant as Barz??
jarvis – wild guesses at what Evra said is just like you Liverpool fellows. Read the report.
Your spelling may work for you, but mine is correct.
Why are you guessing about other people’s ways, when on the internet?
Research and learn, instead of trolling around winding people up with lies.
smartalex…..The below is copied DIRECTLY from the FA report. If you don’t believe me, download it and go to section 271…..
271. When, shortly after the match, he went to see the referee with the manager, Mr Evra
complained that Mr Suarez had said “I don’t talk to you because you niggers”. Mr Evra
told us that he believed, from the moment he heard Mr Suarez use the word “negro”, that
this meant nigger. The Commission asked Mr Evra why, then, did he not tell the referee
that he had been called nigger, as opposed to black. Mr Evra’s answer was that even when
he pronounced the word “niggers”, it was not a word he liked to use.
You might also want to have a look at this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigga
Now what were you saying about researching and learning???
jarvis
Not being an African-American, I do not chose my words from their vocabulary. I chose the word used by my FELLOW blacks. The term was not used in a derogatory context at all. No reasonable man will consider my comment to be abuse of black people, as it is not. You clutch at straws to deflect attention from Suarez the guilty.
Evra does not like to use the word ‘niggers’ when it is racially charged and abusive. This is not the same as using it in a non-racist context. Further, he was particularly sensitive to racism at that moment, for he had just been victimised with a despicable torrent of racial abuse, while trying to play football.
You guessed wrong, or knew that and lied through your teeth to deflect from Suarez.
Your views on racism and racists are of interest, nothing more. If you want to reduce racism, then make an effort to do that, and don’t trawl United blogs trying to prove that other racists exist and deflecting the conversation onto them.
All your silly, unsubstantiated comment at 22:38 is designed for, is to deflect away from Suarez. I suggest you attend to your racially-ignorant player, rather than trying to defend his actions by attacking our player.