At the final whistle yesterday I said that the title race was over. I was so frustrated with our performance and the tetchy atmosphere in the crowd added to our out of sorts feelings. You watch your team dominate a game away from home but then struggle to remember the saves their keeper has had to make and you’re left to wonder where it’s all gone wrong.
It was apparent from the start that there was a gulf in class between the two teams but it would all be about whether we could break them down.
Our first chance of the game came when Federico Macheda played in Antonio Valencia from the right (2.48). The angle was tight but the winger lashed a shot away and Paul Robinson made a good save to keep him out.
Our best chance over the 90 minutes and one which should have resulted in a goal came when Dimitar Berbatov played in Valencia behind the Blackburn defence, leaving him one on one with Robinson (3.56). The keeper made a poor clearance, Berbatov held off the foul from his opponent, before slotting the ball between two defenders. Valencia had the option of Macheda to his left but went for goal, only to see the outstretched foot of the keeper turning the ball away. For a player who is so capable and confident when it comes to striking the ball with power, we will have to rue his decision to attempt to side foot it past the keeper.
Maybe it’s occasions like these which separate challengers from Champions, split second chances which win or lose a football game.
After that, we just created half chances. Nani did well in the second half to beat his man, before the linesman waved his flag for a freekick. He whipped the ball in past any United player but the rebound fell to Berbatov who struck the ball on target, only to see it blocked by Phil Jones. It then fell to Darron Gibson who hit it well wide.
Nani then delivered the ball from the other wing with Valencia our only man in the box, although he swung awkwardly and appealed for a penalty that would never be awarded. Why only Valencia was in the box is the puzzle though, with Berbatov, our only striker, being the player to pass to Nani in the first place. Why wasn’t Berbatov waiting in the box? Because when he waited nothing came to him? Because the manager has instructed him otherwise? It’s a bizarre situation.
Substitute Ji-Sung Park injected a bit of life in to the game and powered through in to the box. He was knocked off balance by one defender before another slid in and took his foot away. It happened just outside the box but he stumbled inside. Maybe the referee was worried he may have to award a penalty if he awarded a foul, so wasn’t interested, but he did have a good view of it.
Paul Scholes found Gary Neville with a great forward ball. He headed it back across the box to Berbatov who stood just inside the area. He hit it well first time and had it gone either side of the keeper, it would have been a certain goal. Sadly, he fired it straight at Robinson. Having been booed for ten minutes or so prior to this by sections of his own support, it was clear he was feeling the pressure, and the only real chance that his team mates created for him over the 90 minutes resulted in an easy save for the English goalie. How things could have been different.
Moments later, a ball bounced over a Blackburn head and Berbatov opted to strike first time from outside the area, but it was miles wide, and he turned his back angrily, huffing and puffing.
Ji-Sung Park got in to a good position but tried a little stepover and a pass instead of getting a shot away. The ball fell to Gary Neville, of all people, who pulled his weak shot wide of the post. It was frustration after frustration on a day we couldn’t afford them.
Our players simply weren’t good enough. The defence dealt with what they had to, but there wasn’t much pressure on them, but our midfield and strikeforce didn’t do enough. Ferguson played Macheda in a 442, as many of us had wanted to see in the absence of Rooney, and it didn’t work because Macheda didn’t do anything. So then we reverted to 451 which also didn’t work because Berbatov didn’t play well enough, doesn’t suit leading the line, and was utterly demoralised thanks to the behaviour of our fans.
Nani did a job, Valencia was disappointing, Scholes didn’t have much to offer and Ryan Giggs contributed nothing. How many good balls in to the box did we see? What did Macheda or Berbatov have to latch on to? It was just poor all round.
I’ve said all season, whether we’ve been top of the table or third, winning the league isn’t our God-given right and for us to win the title this season would mean we were achieving something no other team ever has done before. It shouldn’t be our expectation that United win the league every year. Still, dealing with the reality of that is easier said than done. We can say we can’t win the league every season but that doesn’t mean we’re not gutted every season we don’t win it.
But there’s still 12 points for us to play for, 15 points for Chelsea, so we can’t rule anything out. As it stands, we need to win all our games whilst Chelsea lose one, draw one and win the others. Or we could win all our remaining games, Chelsea draw two and win the rest, and we have to make up the goal difference.
The odds are stacked against us, no denying it, but there’s no point chucking in the towel just yet. Stranger things have happened. Chelsea have to go to White Hart Lane (5th) and Anfield (6th) yet, as well as playing Bolton (15th), Stoke (10th) and Wigan (17th). Is it too hard to imagine they could draw two of those games? Course not.
I’m not deluding myself or trying to convince you of anything, rather just trying to get a bit of perspective. We talked about how right now was the best and worst part of the season, with incredible pressure making any game hard to enjoy right now, but the promise of glory making it worthwhile. How I see it, things can become a lot more enjoyable, because we have nothing to expect now. It is Chelsea’s title to throw away, not ours to win, so sit back and relax and see what happens. If we don’t win it, then of course, we’ll be gutted, but we’ve already got one trophy in the bag and we’ve got next season to look forward to, with our players hurting from this season and striving to do better in the next.
We’ll never die.
Man Utd News 24/7
although it nearly is. its not over till its over
great post scott
We also need Arsenal to slip up too. Big ask. Id rather see arsenal win it than those mercenary rentboys though!
I cant believe it just over a week ago that we were favourites for our 19th and to get to our 3rd final in row. Can’t remember a week like it, maybe the last week of 95 season?
Utterly dejected but you never know funnier things have happened.
Let me just say this…Liverpool have given up on 4th…and cant see them doin United any favours…
So im sorry to say, when Chelsea march into Anfield in 2 weeks, its probably a safe bet that those scouse fucks will roll over and take up the shitter off the rent boys.
Has anyone read Hanson’s ridiculous comments???
Good post. As a Berba fan though, struggling to stick up for him. We needed him to stand up in Rooney’s absence and dont feel he has. The team seems relatively average without Rooney. Sooooo pi**ed off at moment.
Its not over until its over.
We’ll never die !
The last silverlining i want to see this season is beating City at eastlands. Period. There’s enough good things to remember in this season. Rooney, Berba(not 100%), gibson, nani, and the lot.. Looking fwd to next season and al..
P.S: Feeling like liverpool fan this time last year..
I think gibson and carrick should move in the next transfer window. Carrick is too languid for a united midfield during some games. Gibson has a deadly shot but lacks quality in every other aspect. We have GREAT options up top especially with the addition of Hernandez so I believe we should target a box-to-box midfielder (i.e Rodwell, Veloso) and an attacking/advanced playmaker (i.e Silva, Hamsik, Milner).
I just wanted to say that because the players have no desire when they play without Rooney.
Also, I believe Chelsea, God Willing, will mess up in their last few games.
I just hope Gerrard wins us the league when Chelski go to Shitfield.
Nice to see a good perspective after the mists of yesterday have cleared. Another fan gve a good comment on your fb under my post yesterday too. All in all, my expectations for this season were not to win the league, and now that we are slipping away I’m going to sit back and enjoy whatever football is left without the tension and pressure, and look forward to a football feast comejune and July. Myself, the other fans and even the players I think have been so caught up in this race and cl challenge that I don’t see many of them enjoying their football. Hopefully now the pressure is off the boys can enjoy playing in the red shirt and play for themselves, the club and the fans. We are united, we’ll never die so let’s get everyone behind the boys as fans and supporters, regardless of the next few results. This is the united family, and it’s time to show our appreciation and support for the club, the players, the fans and ourselves!
MANCHESTER, MANCHESTER UNITED! A BUNCH OF BOUNCING BUSBY BABES, THEY DESERVE TO BE KNIGHTED!
LUHG
@OP: Yeh heard hansons comments, he’s a tit, I hope his words come back and bite his arse, won’t be the first time and hope it’s not the last, maybe he will keep his big liable mouth closed then.
What can one add to this? By the way, sad topic picture..fuck
Unfortunately United of late have been shite! We don’t deserve to win anything because we did not have the character.
I really hope the old guards hand the flag over to youth now! I don’t understand why Giggs and Scholes started yesterday along with Nev. I love them but they ARE TIRED!
Giggs had a good spell..So did Scholes and Nev ..We should just have taken it as a bonus but instead we have been relying on their experience too much.
And who will get the stick now… Berba..He can’t carry a team like Rooney we all know taht,but he was too deep yesterday.. Why??Simply because our midfield is average!
A colleague told me that Everton midfield are better than ours..I couldn’t argue with him..Sad days!
Let’s hope we rebuild from now on!
Hey, let’s not give up yet. This title has swung in different directions all season. Arsenal and Liverpool supposedly had easy run ins but they’ve both struggled to put consistent wins together.
If we beat City then I think we’re definitely back in it.
Ok we’re relying on Spurs and Liverpool, but the performance of Chelsea against Villa did not look like a team on the verge of winning the title. I’d just like to see us put them under some pressure, so that they have to visit Anfield needing a win.
If we don’t win it, we have our first half performance against Chelsea last week to blame.
It could be worse, we could be scouse.
Good point willierednut
“it didn’t work because Macheda didn’t do anything”
Jesus…
He made the runs, he got into the positions.. Where was the service? NOWHERE!!
The behaviour of our fans? Are you having a laugh? We booed him because he was sat on the floor for when the rest of his team mates where running around like cunts trying to get the ball back that he lost. He was sat holding his face when it was clear that he hadn’t even been touched in the face. I could see that from where i was sat and the replays confirmed it. Laying on the floor, pretending you have a sore face from an imaginary bit of contact whilst your mates run around like twats in a pivitol must win game?yeah, our fans are so pathetic for being annoyed.
You are better than that Scott
Red Phil – Be annoyed all you want, but do you think booing our only striker will help us win a football game? The answer to that is no. So our booing fans contributed to our draw. If you want to boo our players sit in front of the telly and boo them. If you are going to watch the games live, as a supporter, it is our job to support the team… not help the opposition by demoralising our own players.
Stephen – Macheda typically lost the ball whenever he received it. I agree the service should have been far better and that essentially cost us, but when Macheda had the ball he was tackled and lost possession pretty much every time.
‘So then we reverted to 451 which also didn’t work because Berbatov didn’t play well enough, doesn’t suit leading the line’
The way I saw it, it’s not that Berbatov didn’t play well enough (to my eyes, he was one of the few that looked like creating anything and one of the few that looked like he cared), the problem is he played to deep – basically as an attacking midfielder/playmaker. In contrast, in the second half of the Bolton game, it was clear someone had told him at half time to play up front as a centre forward and lead the line, which suited him perfectly. Like Rooney. Like Berbatov did when he played for Spurs. When he scored goals for fun.
Why he keeps being played out of position is beyond me – fair enough if Rooney is up front and say Carrick and Fletch in midfield, but not with Kiko, Scholes and Giggs!
Guys the best piece of commentary i heard in a very long time.
Commentator 1: Look at the range of passing, he is spraying the ball all over the park
Commentator 2: Gee i hope he doesnt have to go for a Urine test after the game
Commentary gold!!!
Will L’pool play to beat the rentboys or just pretend to? Will the FSW play Benayoun & bench Lucas Leiva for once resulting in the want-away Israeli scoring a brace to beat the rentboys? Find out next week.
Hey guys, what were the comments made by Alan Hansen?
Scott, I admit, I shouted everyname under the sun at him. I did the same when ronaldo subbed himself last year. However, I was one of few who stayed behind after the Chelsea game and applauded the shirts off the pitch, likewise for the bayern game. I am always 100% behind my team, and I expect the players to be the same. What possible excuse can you have for his actions that I spoke of earlier?
I don’t care if a player plays a stray ball, I don’t care if they miss tackles or waste possession etc, I get frustrated, but I can live with it. I can’t live with selfish acts like berbas that put the team in hot water.
Also to clear up, I didn’t boo him, I made a lot of noise towards him, but never booed him. Just as bad perhaps, but frustration plays a huge part.
I’ve admired Berbatov for a long while, when he played good along side Rooney in 4-4-2′s it looked like he would put in a good amount of assists and score the odd goals Rooney didn’t, then in a couple of the 4-5-1 lone man striker he managed to do a decent enough job where he won some balls high up the field, or received passing and retained possession well before distributing it, to a midfield who make good use of their legs or a strike partner with great movement.
This problem is the style of Berbatov is least effective when our midfield are the older gen, not making dashing forward runs. In this situation, Berbatov can drop and pick up the ball only to pass it back to them, not really pushing the back line. Scholes/Giggs would be dying to put a pass forward to a striker who makes a turn on the last defender, which is something Berbatov flat out doesn’t do and Macheda hasn’t got the experience for yet.
So the options for him are to drop deep, get in the mix and shift the ball wide. It can work, but its vitally important that people get into the box immediately to get something on the end of all the crosses, and also depends on the quality of crosses – which weren’t good either overall. If Berbatov comes deep, spreads wide, he’s the last man into the box, Scholes isn’t the first and nor is Giggs. If Nani / Valencia are the only 2 making the effort, its very very likely we’ll end up with more results like this.
‘It could be worse, we could be scouse’ is the phrase that has kept me going this season.
I firmly believe that had we had any luck at all this season we’d have romped it. Injuries, bad refs, unfair suspensions, luck going to our rivals, it’s been a really hard slog. Sure this season we’ve had OG to thank for a fair few goals, but that can’t balance the shit we’ve had to wade through. Chelsea have meanwhile enjoyed the luck of the devil.
I think all things considered this season has gone a bit like the Bayern Munich tie, people will focus on the latter half of it, because that was the more exciting and tense, but really we left ourselves mountains to climb from the first half of the season.
Win the last four though, make Chelsea work for it, nothing to lose.
Yeah, Kiko didn’t make it stick when the ball was played up to him, but i don’t wanna go down that road of blaming the kid, he hasn’t played much football this season.
Great post Scott…
I kinda wish Cantona would come and give the lads a good pep talk… You know in case the hair dryer doesnt work…
Ps:nice touch with including the highlights as well…
red phil
clapping the team off the pitch after a defeat is great and hopefully that picks up their spirits for the next match.. but how do you think callin berbatov every name under the sun helped the team on sunday? you can say youre the biggest fan in the world, you cheer the lads on after defeat.. but if you get on the backs of our players whilst a game is still goin on, do you think that will help the team?
if we’re honest, we have no idea how much berb was hurt. i dont see where you got the reply from because they didnt show it on motd and id love to see footage of it, if you have it. i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt whilst you will assume he was faking.. whatever, it doesnt make a difference now. but what could have made a difference is if every single fan was cheering on every single player. that would have lifted the spirits of berbatov and every other player wearing our shirt. thats not what happened though and we drew because of it.
like scott said in the other article, the fans that didnt support all our players yesterday got the result they deserved, you included.
There was a moment in yesterdays game, when Giggsy put a brillant ball across the face of goal and our main man was no where to be seen. You just think if Wazza had of been on the pitch, he would have busted a gut to get in there and finish it off.
I watched the highlights with a cool head this time. And I am getting more and more pissed with comments about how poorly Berbatov played. Non of his 3 chances were clear cut, he made out best chance, he was creating space from midfield and he really fought hard yesterday. It did not convert, but I seem to remember more than once (Burnley, Villa) when a similar performance from Rooney was not called terrible and boo-ed. People pick out from his performance the moment when he layed on the ground after being pushed with hand in the face, despite this being the only way to make a ref consider this seriously. We see players do it over and over again and yet, when Berbatov does it it is called lazy and heartless.
Lets face it, the media set up the pressure and hype that Berbatov should replace Rooney in two very hard games and after not scoring against Chelsea they starting talking about how Berbatov is failing and it is only shameful that our fans followed suit. This is really disgusting and the extent the scapegoating of Berbatov has reached is simply ridiculous
radio 5 live today did a phone poll on berba, and 87% of united fans wanted berba out !! What do you guys think ??
I don’t think it is the booing that affected berbatov the fact of the matter is he’s poor the entire period he has been with us. Also don’t blame the likes of kiko and rafael they are yound kids with exceptional talent and will be our future.
@Red Sam
I am sure if they did a poll on Ronaldo the day after a certain wink game 4 years ago, probably 98% would have wanted him out or worse.
It just goes to show that interviewing fans in the heat of a moment is not objective as to what is good for the club
like you said … stranger things have happened… City will be make or break.
Poor performance all round. Scott makes a good point about Berbatov.
What the fuck is going on with his Game?
He wasnt playing upfront he was playing deep. Was he told to play there so Kiko could go upfront and Berbatov could do his legendary “link up play” stuff? Or maybe because of the stick he was receiving he decided himself to go deeper to see more of the ball?
Eitherway, it didnt work out, did it?
Obviously I do agree our midfield needs an addition, but I dont think we can attribute the midfield to berbatovs lacklustre 2 seasons. Rooney hasnt had any complaints. Also, Owen has scored 9 in at least 3 vital games (Wolfsburg Hatrick, City last minute, Villa Final) now if Owen can do what he’s supposed to do from the Bench with our without Rooney why cant Berbatov? Both Valencia and Nani have provided ample Goals to Rooney from wide all season. Cant really think of many times where Berbatov has been able to make use of our AMAZING wide players.
Personally, I think if you placed ANY decent striker in a team with Nani on your Left and Valencia on your right, he’s gonna score goals. Maybe because Berbatov isnt the type of player to Run into the box at full speed and bury a header from a vicious cross delivered from the byline by a speedy winger.. maybe thats why he doesnt perform and play the United way?
I think Berbatov is a luxury we can only afford when we have other options like we did with Rooney and Ronaldo and Tevez all doing the business. So yes, as a Squad Player like Owen I can see his worth, but as a week in week out type of player? No. Berbatov will never be a week in week out reliable Striker for us. Maybe a lesser team like Spurs he can do teh business, but not Champions League Winners like Manchester United. Its a results driven business, lest we forget.
So If he stays, it should be as a Squad Player who can handle sitting on the bench like a Professional next to Owen. Owen has had a great season for us. Berbatov could play a similar role, perhaps, maybe. But as our SECOND STRIKER? Your having a laugh, its like a relationship nobody wants to admit is over. We need a new striker who can 1) play on his god damn own 2) run 3) put the ball in the back of the net. Thats not asking too much for 30 million is it?
Lets see what happens in the Summer.
Of course it’s still mathematically possible to win the League, but I’d be surprised if it happens, especially if the sour mood of supporters is anything to go by. Nevertheless, I hope those of you able to go to any of the last few matches support the team, and not repeat what happened yesterday at Blackburn. Looking at the cutaways of United supporters I felt sick. All those passive faces, all that chewing of nails, all that nervousness, no spirit at all. Losers every one. Just when the players need to be lifted, nothing but boos and moans. Unbelievable. You might just as well have worn bar-code shirts and had tatts on your foreheads saying, ‘I’m Toon, Me’.
@ kosio
the same note should be taken here no need to slag anyone for criticizining a player/team/manager after a bad game.overreaction amonst united fans is a bit common nowadays…..
@ paul parker
spot on mate
While most of the “scape goating” has been around Berba I totally support Scott’s assement of Giggs and Scholes. They’d both be honest and professional enough to admit that their contribution was well short of Berba’s or what the occasion required but being legends they of course will never receive the abuse a Berba will.
Booing any United player for his performance during a match is an act of surrender and treason for me. You official cease being a United “supporter” and join the opposition scum.
its the fans fault that berbatov had such a poor game?!?!?! i dont agree with booing him but at this point i think he played poorly because he’s errr…shit. Actually he’s a very good player who plays shit for us. Has he ever turned up for a big game? when was the last time he performed when we really needed him to?
Very dissapointing result, despite all the posession and control we had.
I still think it’s possible we might win the title, but it looks more unlikely now than it ever was.
I think we have a very good, exciting, young team in the making in fabio, rafael, evans, smalling, nani, anderson, valencia, gibson, cleverley, james, hernandez, mascheda and welbeck.
All teams have transitional periods and if the start of ours is a 2nd place in the Premier League, a quarter-final in Champions League and a Leage Cup title, I’ll sit comfortably in my chair in the knowing that our management is doing something right.
BTW
I read that Telegraph article on our transition period, great stuff, im sure ROM and its like provide many a journalist with “inspiration” for their writing. He echoed things we’ve said on here for months.
I def agree we need to improve our midfield.
The question is do we twist or stick?
I have just as much faith in Anderson as I always did Nani, I’ve seen enough of Young Ando to KNOW that he has the skill to be amongst the best central midfielders in the world. Ideally, a super fit Hargreaves and an inform Anderson would be thte ultimate Centre Midfield Partnership, with Nani mastering the Left and Valencia dominating the Right. That sounds like HEAVEN to me, the perfect four man midfield, just as good as anywhere in Europe PLUS we dont have to spend a penny !!!!
But the problem is,
Anderson has to start his re-introduction to the starting 11 fold from square ONE after showing brilliant signs in the same match he was injured. And we all know about Hargo… so unfortunately, I think we need to purchase a new CM. We didnt twist this year, I think we might have to next year…
We already have plenty SQAUD PLAYERS in midfield. For me, Fletcher is a great squad player, just like Park is, theyre great for certain games, as subs, and to provide cover for our first team midfield BUT to be honest I dont think Fletcher is first team week in week out class. Sorry. Same with Park, same with Carrick. They are excellent squad players, but ask yourself, if ANDERSON and HARGREAVES were both doing what Alec INTENDED them to be doing, do you seriously think Fletcher and Carrick or Park would make the team sheet in a 4-4-2 ahead of either player? Course not. Anderson and Hargo are different class, and we need different class at this Club. Thats not being disrepectful to Carrick Fletcher or Park, they have thier part to play. So, with Anderson and Hargreaves falling out of luck, as a Club we need to buy a new central midfielder, even if it means our existing players have extra competition. Thats a good thing, bcos nobody is guranteed their place at United. Thats the way its always been.
I think our Defence (Brown/Rafael) (Fabio/Evra) (Smalling/Evans/Rio/Vidic) (DeLaet/Oshea) is perfect, and regardless of Berbatovs fate I think our Forward Options are decent too, especially with this ambitious Mexican Kid starting for us soon after he plays in the World Cup. He must be STOKED. Remember when the MEDIA laughed at Ronaldo and his early step overs? Aparaently we should be worried because this new Kid of ours is an unknown Mexican. SCHOLES was an unknown Ginger Kid, look who had the last laugh there? VIVA MEXICO !!!!!
The problem is that such over-the-board reactions create myths that the ABU media like to circulate:
- United is a one man team, despite yesterday being the first game without Rooney we haven’t won in the PL from 10.
- Berbatov is lazy and does not want to win. Stats have shown that Berbatov covers distance and tackles the ball similar to Rooney and Tevez
- Fletcher is shit. It took 4 years to get over this one
- United lack options is the final third,despite this seasons being one of our most prolific ones
I know it is easy to just swallow that Hansen and the other “experts” offer, but lets face it: they feed on controversy.
Berbatov really had a lack of support from our midfield. It was sad to see that Gibson was our best central midfielder yesterday – and that was only because you could see that really wanted to win and also tried to inject some pace into our game in central midfield.
But I don’t think Giggs and Scholes are totally past it. We definitely shouldn’t start them away from home or against the “big teams”. In other games they are great to have on the bench.
Yesterday we really lacked pace and creativity in the middle of the pitch. Just like Carrick in the last few games, Scholes and Giggs were thinking they would have lots of time on the ball – but they just got robbed again and again – they were never able to increase their tempo. The season has just been to long for them. If Anderson and Hargreaves were fit, it really would look different.
Also I can’t unterstand why Neville replaced Rafael. Rafael is the future, and should get time on the pitch when O’Shea and Brown aren’t fit (or playing in an other position). It would have been great from SAF to show Rafael some trust after the red card.
By the way: What was our average age yesterday? 35?
@ giles Oakley
thank god for your input giles. As we’ve said – we are meant to be supporters. Going to OT is to go to support your team, not go to see a show. We’re lucky enough that more often than not, we are successful. 12th man and all that from now on. Anyone who watched the burnley v city game the other week in the pishing rain would have seen how the burnley fans reacted to being 6-0 down! I saw more people leaving in the away section once the game was won than the home fans walking out on their team.
It’s time to stand united and show some backing to our players, regardless!
It’s not over until it is over said Lenny Kravitz which is true. If I could make a positive note from the game last night is that it’s clear now that the fund needs to be made available to buy a (well)known type of player. Maybe not the world best but certainly someone who we can always depend to bring in the result to the table.
I’ll take 40m anyday than nothing at all but what 40m can do if we are to fix the midfield and striker problems? But hopefully with the performance last night they will think twice of limiting the fund for Sir Alex
My name says it all
As always feeling moody and sad reading scott post makes you optimistic about the future and slightly delight a bit. There is no pressure on us winning any trophy. All we had to do is to enjoy the last few matches. Cheers!
Great post, couldn’t have said it better! COME YOU REDS!
this has def got boring I give my 2 cents on berbatov that he along with our other strikers if you take out rooney he is a tactical nightmare for the boss. But the bashing he got has been way OTT fans some have not given well tons who posted on here yesterday have not given good constructive arguments why he has struggled, but there were others who should be blammed, to be fare to berbatov he did create uniteds best chance so he should be given some credit
The comments by Kosio, Paul Parker, and Scott see really on point to me: Berbatov is no where as bad as people say. As for him dropping deep, I really seems to arise from the lack of a midfielder filling that space where he is at.
Giggs and Scholes in tandem really cannot fill that role. Thus, Berbatov drops back to get the ball. If he plays higher up the pitch when he receives it to feet with his back to goal, like he usually does, there is little to no help in that space right behind. That is why I think he drops deep because he gets the ball easier and has more help around him.
To slag off Berbatov really shows a lack of thinking to me. He has improved this season. I specifically point to his work rate. You see him running around trying to put in more tackles and do more on the defensive side. I am surprised that people miss that improvement.
Scott the post and perspective is brilliant. The world is not coming to an end and United are not falling off a cliff.
superb post scott. thats exactly what i’m doing now. sitting back, accepting that its out of our hands and looking forward to city on saturday. Time to relax, look forward to next season (and my holiday to turkey in may!
), and hope for the best. Anyway, at the end of the day lads n lasses, it could be worse, we could be scouse, vying for a europa cup spot and out of the top 4! bring on the bertie’s saturday!
yesterday game does remind me very much of the last game of the 94/95 season vs westham where no matter what we did, the ball just wont go in & blackburn lifted the title despite losing to the scousers.
me too was extremely gutted. remember hating andy cole for years after that.
15 years later, still felt gutted how our season de-railed so badly in the last 2 weeks which likely cost us the title. though gutted, i totally agreed it’s not our divine right to win the league every year. & for those slagging off our very own now, u are not a true fan. just like i wasnt 15 years ago.
wake the fuck up.
Scott,
I agree with you when you say that winning the league is not our god-given right……. But what is most frustrating about this particular campaign is that we had it in our hands and over the past 2 weeks, we have just thrown it out the window……… If we do not win the league, the moments which we will remember about this season 10 years from now will be Evra and Ferdinands short nap in 93rd minute against Bayern and Dimi’s miss against Chelsea in 90th minute at OT…….
@Paul Parker
and to think Hargo and Ando played once together and that was against Arsenal away 2 years ago when we drew 2-2. They dominated the CM. Thats why we need them back so we can start playing 4-4-2
Lol. Scott go and read under the today at old trafford collumn at manutd.com. One of them rates our fans were amazing at the away end on sunday
Great post Scott, the last few (Berba post being the best) seemed to have pumped up a lot of fans since the week and a bit of disappointment we have had.
Win, lose or draw we shall all be here at the start of the new season with the same hunger and desire to see United achieve greatness as we always do.
“Forever and ever, we’ll follow the boys, of Man Utd, the Busby Babes”
@TheRadLegion
Agree with you…… So far I have been skeptical over the Green & Gold protest but if we do not spend this summer I will be convinced that the Glazers are limiting Sir Alex……. We need a serious cash injection and food for thought……. Just look at the 4 teams in the semis….. They have all spent big this summer……
@Maci
Don’t you think they were though pal? I thought the support was fantastic, very vocal. Ok, I get where you’re coming from, I assume you’re talking about the booing of Berba but, that aside, top support as usual.
DEVILisRED- no it does not, that day in 95 the goal had a force field it would not go in, yesterday united were slow luggish and never looked like scoring
@urval87
i agree about Evra’s mistake/Rooney’s injury…that was absolutely massive moment
but what about Carricks’s pen miss at Burnley..what a waste of 3 points
and how about the ref’s decisiion at the bridge…another 1 point for us, and 2 less for Chelsea
We should be 4 points ahead of Chelsea now!
RTNK – what do you think our CF solution should be?
I think our team is 85% Perfect right now. All our positions have ample “class” cover except Central Midfield, where we’re relying on Squad Players too much like I said in the other post. Giggs and Scholes and even Neville should def continue playing imo, our problem them this year is we’ve been forced to play them WAY too often. Even if they only play 10 full games between them next year, at least they’ll be giving exactly what we need without looking past it as they have done at times this season. They have a role to play. But regardless of how this season ends, im really looking forward to Summer, and I wouldnt say no to Benzema as a out and out Striker.
Im not completely sold on the idea dont get me wrong, but out of all the names doing the rounds I think Benzema is a more polished and proven striker than Auguero and Villa imo. I know some supporters dont like the lad but Its not like he shat on United (as far as I know) because if Real Madrid didnt pay WAY more than hes worth he would be here right now. Top of my head, Id be happy to see Benzema here as a replacement for Berbatov. Anybody who thinks Benzema doesnt have Berbs “touch” or his “ability to hold up the ball” clearly hasnt seen the Boy play. We need a sharp, fast, hungry player who can lead the frontline on his own. Benzema did that for Lyon, as we found out dont forget.
But whoever we get in, Ideally, we’ll bring in another Striker in addition to the Young Mexican and our existing young stars, and we’ll bring in a proven midfielder to provide MORE competition to our midfield starved of Hargo and Ando’s presence. But everywhere else, both flanks, and at the back, I think we’re as good as anybody out there. This Summer Window should be interesting. Chelsea need to spend BIG.
Lets not forget Valencia was held in the box after a cross, should have been awarded a penalty. And Scholes also got a knock from Pedersen, could have resulted in a pen as well. Although we should have been able to break down their defense the refs have been in our disfavour this season.
Warwick,
When a player is sat on the floor doing nothing except pretending he got hurt while the rest of the team run around and try to get the ball that he lost, then I, as a match paying supporter, have every right to shout at him and tell him to get the fuck up and stop doing fuck all. What would you rather happen? Would you rather I apploud such behaviour? Clap clap dimi, well done on doing fuck all, losing possession and wasting time for no reason in a game we need to win, well done. Bollocks. I didn’t boo him, but he deserved every bit of noise he recieved.
Did you support ronaldo when he subbed himself? I pay fucking good money to watch these lads run around, if I want to day that one of them is playing shit then I fucking will.
Also, just to go back to Benzema quickly
he is a proven Big Game Striker imo.
Even if you forget the Beauty against us, dont forget he played the central major role at a young age in winning the Double with Lyon for their first time. After their mature Star Striker left he stepped up and scored an unprecedented amount of Goals. I’ve been watching him long before he played us in Europe. Its not his fault Madrid offered Lyon waaaaay more than he was worth. Madrid didnt even need him they had Higuain, and if they left Benzema alone he would have joined us along with Valencia/Overtan/Owen because our Bid was accepted and he was happy to come here. I dont think he’s happy in Madrid, and after unintentionally handballing to deny Rauls last El Classico Goal, and after getting in Ronaldo’s way when he was clear on to score, I reeeeeally cant see him staying there much longer. He is French after all, surely some Gaul Pride should kick in at some point? He should walk before he’s pushed. Just some thoughts. Personally Id swap Berb for Benz in a flash, he is a much better player and he’s still young enough to fall under our new NO CLUB FOR OLD MEN policy.
BUT…. just like I was happy to gamble this season with only Valencia (paid off) and Owen (paid off)
I’d be just as happy to continue with Rooney, Berbatov, Welbeck, Kiko, Diouf and the Mexican Kid.
Surely two of those players can do the business?
Besides, in all likeliness we probably wont bring in anybody else, I wouldnt be surprised if Alec just gambled on Ando and Hargo being fit and continuing with Smalling and the Mexcian…..
….or maybe Alec will weild the Axe, sell Berbatov and buy Benzema Auguero AND Villa !!!!!!
who knows?
@Red Phil
I agree Berba did fuck the whole of last night. I too think he was a poor signing for 30mn, but at thwe end of the day, he is a United player, and as long as he is in a red shirt, I’ll never boo him.
That’s just my way of looking at it. You are free to disagree.
@dela
I dont think you were saying that when we signed him
He was class at Spurs, but we havent been playing to his strengths
SAF doesnt play him in big games as our midfield are too weak to have only 2 central midfielders
The first mistake imo was rotating 6/11 of the team that played Bayern. I don’t expect us to play the same team, but that was too much. Secondly, I would have started Gibson since he had the momentum from the previous game. Thirdly, no problem with taking Kiko out if he hasn’t impress, but why not have someone like Diouf on the bench. I prefer that than chasing a goal with Berba as the main man,
But that’s all in hindsight. One would say that the team out there was still good enought to beat Blackburn. Some players just seemed deflated. The next game should pick them up again.
RTNK
but isnt the slagging of berbatov very similiar to 94/95 when many fans including myself find a scapegoat for not winning?
last year when kiko score that 2 important goals vs villa & sunderland, didnt that in a way win us the title? who the fuck knew who macheda was then? we all have been watching football long enough to know sometime it goes ur ways, sometimes it doesnt.
everybody is gutted how things have turn out these past week, but slagging berba slagging carick…. even suggeztion of sacking Fergie??? fuck me, are these manchester united fans? sounds more like bitter fans to me.
disgraceful & depressing some comments i read since yst.
sad.
Paul Parker – well if you are still on here at moment when this is posted here is my thoughts because I am not bashing players like berbatov these are facts on the CF position and this gonna be a well constructive view on the striker situation and going back the past phew years has much has 2008.
Well if anyone have been following my posts when I brought it up I said time and time again the CF position is a worry and for many reasons, King Eric and many others tried to say it was fine but anyone mostly knew uniteds depth upfront was so thread bear it was at breaking point. Butmany on here did not really have a good think through that yes united are not a 1 man team but there is no cover for Rooney and for a club the size of united that is not good enough.
- beyond Rooney the rest of the strikers are a tactical nightmare, berbatov Owen are 442 strikers and their combined age is 60 years old, macheda welbeck diouf and the Mexican forward are way 2 inexperienced. The problem with our current 433 system the two wingers supporting striker is a nightmare if something goes wrong with its main man, if the vocal point the main striker is not there the system fails. Rooney is the heart that pumps the Manchester united blood flowing through its veins when the heart stops united go flat lined. And that is why I hate 433 because Valencia and Nani are good wingers but they need the heart for them to be effective, Barcelona last year had 3 outstanding forwards, united like wise had that a phew years ago, united in their double winning season had so much flexibility, you lose Rooney or rest him stick ronaldo and tevez upfront it give the boss options to freshen it up, put ronaldo rooney upfront rest tevez could we rest rooney these days no chance.
now I agree there is not to much wrong with the team, but talent needs implemented into the team, like in defense the DA Silva twins, smallen, Evans brothers, carthcart, DE laat, how does the boss get these talents into the squad and what will happen with Neville Ferdinand vidic o Shea especially vidic. in midfield will the likes of Gibson Anderson cleverly how does fergie get the best out of young talents. and upfront does fergie cut his losses get rid of berbatov give the likes of the Mexican forward macheda welbeck diouf big decisions on all these players and getting Rooney’s contract sorted.
now the CF position for me has been a mess since summer 2008 from ronaldo’s pethetic antics in the summer to signing a striker that was not going to impove the team unless it is villa or torres. I still do not get why fergie signed berbatov when clearly he was a tactical nightmare that he was another striker that goes deep but did not have the drive to go box to box especially on the counter. when Rooney and tevez were established, you add the fact united were playing 433 more and more it seemed a waste signing berbatov when he cant change the pattern of play off the bench and it does not help berbatovs game being a sub he is not that type of player and has been proven that berbatov has been so unlucky with system change and players leaving, when you look a tevez he was almost a ball winner and he covered up allot of our short comings in midfield and he stopped us getting overrun many do also forget that and his impact off the bench he changes the tempo and has that annoying nack like ole of being in the right place at the right time. Now when ronaldo was sold no one was suprised, but what shocked me was why fergie did not try and get a swap deal 50 million for ronaldo plus higuain we get the striker we needed and cash in the bank since forwards are 40 million plus the 80 milion has been useless to united now. I do not see any forward out there, benzema is another berbatov seems to slow and he will take 3 years to settle like Nani, aguero would be brilliant nut beyond that I do not see anyone else.
Dela, I never booed him. I support the shirts to no end. I can’t support his actions. People are missing why he got the abuse. It isn’t because they don’t like him, it’s because of what he did. Like I keep saying, I was willing to do it to our bestplayer last year with ronaldo. It doesn’t matter who you are, you are never above criticism, particularly at our club.
I never booed him, people around me did and I can understand it although I don’t condone it.
@DEVILisRED
I don’t know if you can compare players getting slated, but Berba’s situation reminds me more of Veron. And Teddy Sheringham, who also heard plenty of moaning from United fans after we lost the title in 1998. In 94-95, Andy Cole got plenty of critism. But when I look back, the player whose situation reminds of Cole’s isn’t Berbatov. It’s Forlan.
Expectations are always high at our club. Some times you can give up on players too soon(Forlan), other times the writing can be on the wall(Veron). The question is in which category Berbatov belongs.
I think its about time we got old trafford rocking. We should have the best atmosphere in the league. The utd city game at ot was electric, thats hw it should b week in week out. Ive been 2 to many utd games where I look around and theres no passion 4rm the fans. To be fair ive only sat in the north stand cuz thats only tickets I can get but we should realy try and bring the passion 2 the stands. And on the plus side, mayb the glazers wil think twice if an offer comes in sein as the revenue 4rm not winning the league and champions league final wil not be what it has in recent times. Mufc the religion!
@ Sayyid
I agree that there have been many times this season where we have thrown it away or where we have been shamefully hard done by…….. But my point was that those 2 moments, even after all the things you mentioned, if they had gone right, then we would still be in the drivers’ seat……. Sir Alex needs to have a serious word with Carrick this summer. Though he has been good the past 3 years, this year has been his worst by far………….
Costas – it is freakishly like veron, what I do not understand is berbatov did not come from another league, for me the reason why berbatov is struggling is fergie playing 433 2 wingers supporting striker, when he arrived united were playing with 2 strikers add the fact uniteds midfield needs strengthening because we have become to weak to play with a 2 man midfield I wonder if united could sign lessana diarra since he is out of favor at the fascest.
Guys if you see the four teams in the semifinals of the Champions League they have all spent some serious cash in the summer to either make adjustments(Barca) or to revamp their style of play(Bayern, Lyon and Inter)……
Would love to hear your opinions on the topic…..
urval87 – but what ballague and hunter were saying is pep learnt alot of things from the chelsea game that he thought barcelona needed a tweak in personal upfront and a system change just a bit, that barca needed that phycial strength upfront thats why ibrahimovic was brough in. yes all teams left have but united had spent alot of cash in summer 2007 and summer 2008
I dont think Berbatovs job yesterday wa to lead the line. He was deployed in a creative role, in the almost centre of midfield and thats where he done most his work.
Easy to point the finger at berbatov, but Macheda looks like an average Chamopioship player at best, judged on the games he has started. Giggs and Scholes are no longer top class Premier league players and it shows.
The boo’s for Berbatov were few and fa betweem, highlighted more by the home supports booing of him. However, some reds did take to small boo’s when he went down on the floor for ages, failed to get up when the challenge looked like there was nothing in it; The sort of Ronaldo like behaviour of 3 years ago.
its easy to pint at berbatov in Rooneys abscene, but 10 other players offered very little and once again the managers team selection and substitutions left a hell ofa lot to be desired.
4th game on the run that Fergie has got it wrong and it seems to be a factor in the big games over the last year.
As with Keanes last days, we sacraficed the tea to get Keane playing, we are now doing that by playing neville, Giggs an Scholes and this will have negative effects on the development of the likes of Rafael, Fabio, Gibson and Anderson (Granted he was injured yesterday). Add in the fact that O’Shea offers little at ful back and is not fit.
@urval87 says
Carrick was bought to do a job…which was to sort out our passing in midfield (remember days of Smith & O’Shea as CM!!) However we now need a CM to dominate games like Xaxi, Fabregas, Lampard, Gerarrd, Alonso etc
We have Fletcher and Hargreaves but they are more destroyers than dominating playmakers
Carrick has been useless all season, ever since the final where he was taught a big lesson by Barca
06-07 brilliant attacking footbal. best season from Ronaldo.
07-08 brilliant season in terms of results but with a major change in terms of tactics.
08-09 when it’s started bothering me. amazing string of games without conceding that let us win 3rd title on the trot. but the standart of attacking play started to worry me so much.
this season. problems after problems. injuries, referees, Ronaldo departure, fatigue, some players not performing some not understood some not used the right way.
Here’s hoping. 1,2,3,4 seasons. Really interesting to see how young players will be used 10-11 season.
Agree with Costas on the choice of players for yesterday’s game. I tried to predict the squad and wrote Rafael and Gibson in place of Giggsy and Neville. Even though Fergie quite clearly said 3 legends would play.
call me old school, but regardless of i like the player or not, as long as he’s still wearing our Red, i’ll get behind him. i have learn to trust good oldie Sir Alex. if he’s still keeping a player in the squad, he must have some use.
talking about forlan, i have always like him. u knew he has it in him, but just didnt bang in the goals he should for us. look at how he has been performing since leaving us. did we let him go too fast? i dunno. trust fergie.
@ Sayyid
Seconded mate!!!!!!
rooney the new king – sell Berbatov buy Anelka.
@Stretford End Flags
It’s time to sell O’Shea for £8m, Carrick for £12m, De Leat (£2m), Tosic (£5m), Welbeck (£4m)
That £29m
Lets get Rodwell (18), Milner (22) and Silva (24)
Our problem is midfield not attack
@RTNK
Well, in a way, Tottenham are in a different league than us, lol. As far as Berbatov, it’s very possible that this is the best he can do for us. At Spurs he was a big fish in a small pond.I mentioned Sheringham. The truth is that apart from his final season he wasn’t a regular starter. Berba is also more of a squad player. The difference now, as you well know, is that Berbatov plays more often because we don’t have 4 strikers like we did then. And you are right about the system. 4-4-2 could have suited him better, but he hasn’t played there too often in recent games.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/shakhtar-donetsk-star-douglas-costa-man-utd-were-too-slow-764791
Interesting point. We were too slow but Shakhtar paid what Gremio had asked and it was 5 mln.
Interesting. We have a left winger at Koln. Another question to be asked.
@ Corea
Agree with your observations….. Last season, it was a stellar defense that won us the league…..
The season 07-08, I enjoyed watching us most because we played a 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 with giggsy dropping into the midfield and Ronnie going forward….. It was swift, fast and awesome football……. We are now well adjusted to a 4-3-3….. We need Gibson to develop and become a serious goal threat or we need to find somebody to support Wayne…….
What I have also noted is that the Hernandez, Macheda, Welbeck, Diouf are all mobile and could interchange within a 4-3-3…… I think that a 4-4-2 with 2 forwards should be reserved for when we are trailing a game or when we have already won it…….. I a 4-3-3, we do keep the ball imperiously and in the games where the 4-3-3 has failed, it has not been because of structural problems but because Carrick has not performed well this season……
Greetings from the American desert. For me this game was indicative of our weaknesses all season. Our central midfield is simply not good enough. Scholes is a legend and one of my all time favorite players, he is just not the player he once was. Fletcher is fantastic, but he’s not the creative spark we need in games where our opponent puts 10 men behind the ball. For all the criticism of Berba he has to have better service. I believe he can be effective just not as the lone striker. We can’t go 4-4-2 without a better presence in the middle of the park. I’m very optimistic about the players coming up, I’m just not sure we have anyone to fill the void in the middle at the moment.
Sell Wayne Rooney, buy Robbie Keane so we can see the real Berbatov – the Berbatov of Tottenham.
Corea – dont get that comment but like I said 433 change 2 wingers suppporting striker has been the reason why he looks a shadow of his former self add berbatov benched has really been a problem for the guy. He is talented but is not very effective especially when his lack of drive makes less of a potent force especially when he likes to go deep.
Costas – exactly that is berbatovs problem, he is a 442 striker but united play 433 that for me is the decisive factor why he is struglling uniteds chamge of system
@urval87 says:
There was nothing wrong with 4-4-2 when we won the treble in 1999, so why change now
It must be because our CM is so weak. IMagine if we had Keane and Scholes in their prime playing for us now, with Valenia, Nani, Rooney and Berbatov!
Flethcer/anderson/hargreaves need to step it up next season
but the real problem which is fucking united up is fergie is not confident in his midfield to play a 2 man midfield so for me it is a rock in a hard place. so berbatov is a 442 striker but fergie does not feel confident playing a 2 man midfield liek he used to a phew years back, can someone tell me is that a problem to get the best out of berbatov or what and the likes of owen welbeck macheda diouf and the mexican forward.
@Sayyid
In the long run, if we have to be successful in Europe and maintain tight defenses to win the league, we have to play a 4-3-3.
Barca(09), United(08), Milan(07), Loserpool(05), Porto(04), Milan(03) have all played with 3 midfielders……. The game has become much more free flowing due to South American and Spanish influences and Football has slowly evolved into a game where having control of the midfield is the key to winning a game……
As far as 1999 was concerned, we had 2 wingers in Giggsy and Becks who we had to play because they were too good to be left out…….. And at that time in Guardiola’s words we used to do only 3 things : “Attack, Attack, Attack….. Dont let up, No rest, Attack , Attack, Aattck”
I believe it’s more than 4-4-2, it’s understanding.
Berbatov had a good thing going with Robbie Keane. Despite Spurs’ relative weakness in defence, and only having an ok midfield, they could score because of their understanding as they played many games together as Spurs’ first choice strike partnership.
We could do the same IMO, but our midfield must step up. Carrick is regressing, which is surprising given that he has done extremely well over the past 3 seasons. Fletcher is still human no matter how much he is a genius and will tire. Valencia and Nani impressed with their hunger but they are still young and have much to learn.
I hope Berbatov stays on with Man Utd for at least a season more. He has a lot to give and I really believe it is not his limit as yet.
I am thinking about our attacking options. November 15th. Game against Stoke. Wellbeck comes on and scores our 5th goal and a cracking goal from outside the penalty box. 1,5 years passed and we still not sure what future is in store for him.
Diouf. Strange unexpected signing. Plays a few games, scores some goals and then dissapears.
Macheda. Saved us against Villa and then again at Sunderland. Then goes missing.
Now we have this guy from Mexico. I don’t how a manс can support England at the World Cup these days. I was a fan of England since the 1996 but it is hard to endure seeing some fuckers play. I will support Mexico.
I don’t understand Fergie’s strategy concerning youg players. We have some guy called Cleverly but i can’t be sure we’ll see him near the first side next season.
We have Carling Cup. After our final against spurs last season o begged Fergie to play youngsters in every single game in the competition. I don’t know. Maybe for some winning this competition is a consolation. For me it’s the tournament for our youngsters as long as Fergie is being unable to risk playing some of them in other competitions.
@urval87 says:
i agree about controlling the midfield..but it seems pointless that we play 3 in midfield
we can play 4-4-2 and when we dont have the ball, one of our strikers can just mark the opposition holding player, which is what Tevez i think it was, did when we beat Chelsea 2-0 a few years back. He just stopped them from passing the ball to Essien (it was the game when Fletch and Giggs were in CM, against the 3 midfielders of Chelsea..yet we still dominated them)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJSnBMq-S9w
sadly we don’t see this stuff nowadays. how many goals did we actually score outside the penalty area this season ?
fucking hell. this will be a long and grueling summer. i am shaking. this blog really made me feel depressed. first time we are seriously in trouble since i joined RoM. time to see the real picture.
Corea – what I also dont understand why he keeps signing all these young strikers when united only play the one striker. if fergie is not giving berbatovv enough playing time how in the hell will the others break through.
@Corea says
And what about Fabio, Tosic, Cathcart, Joshua King, Obertan
It seems many of them will be kept on till they are 24 and then sold for a small profit
I was never a fan of this 451 (or 433) formation, and have now come to truly hate it. It means we can only have top class central striker on the field at a time. But worse, it actually means we can only have one top-class central striker in the squad — because there’s nowhere to put a second one, except on the bench, and no top-class striker is going to stand (or sit!) for that. Go on, pick your favorite central striker (after Rooney), pretend we can afford it and the player is available, and now ask yourself: is a guy like that prepared to warm the bench for the big matches whenever Rooney is fit? Not bloody likely.
So long as we play that system, the ugly fact is that we’re dependent on Rooney staying fit and in form, and whenever he’s not, whoever comes off the bench will be either (a) young and inexperienced, (b) second-rate or (c) both. Or (d) unsuited to the role of a lone striker, like Berbatov.
Berbatov is a class act, not only as a footballer, but as a person too. Citeh held out their thirty pieces of silver and he spat on them to join us. And the transfer didn’t line his pockets, it went to Spurs. If reports are true, he has also sat on the bench without complaint. As to his histrionics on the field, get over it. He isn’t the only one who gets frustrated or pissed off, and I have to say, most of the time he’s quite right. Our guys waste too much ball through sloppy passes, or glory-seeking shots that go way wide or way high. And when other players act the same way (Rooney, VDS, whoever), that’s OK, isn’t it? But Berbatov? How dare he!
We need to fix our midfield, and have needed to do so for at least two years now. Until we do, we can forget about winning the big matches consistently. I know that sounds negative, but everything I’ve seen in the last two years says it’s right.
But if we can get our midfield cranking — winning and keeping possession, using the ball well, denying the opposition time and space — then I think Berbatov would work well in a 442 (or 4411) with Rooney.
And no matter what anyone thinks of him, booing him during a match (or anyone else wearing our shirt) is totally disgraceful.
And Scott is right on another point. Let’s say we come 2nd this year. Well, get over it. We can’t expect to win every year. We can hope to do that, and can be disappointed when we don’t, but the PL is probably the most competitive league in any sport on the entire planet. Coming second, after winning three on the trot, is bloody terrific. I can live with not winning it occasionally! (And it ain’t over yet anyway…)
at the end of the day, we have to face it – we’re not good enough without the Roon. it’s got nothing to do with berba, or the formation, or aging players. i had more fun watching pompey play spurs than united play blackburn. there’s just NO spark.
@Sayyid – Fabio wil have his chance. Evra will be 29 in May. Fabio is 19.
Cathcart no chance.
Tosic really strange. Don’t kow what to make of it.
Obertan ? We’ll see.
As i said Fergie’s strategy concerning youth talent is pretty strange one. But i believe if things go the same way as in the beginning of this season he won’t have any other choice than to give some of them a bigger chance. We don’t spend money nowadays, no ?
Stateside Aussie – you hit the nail right on the head I also hate the 433 system because if you lose the main striker the whole system fails. when you play 424 have to strong midfielders that can cover the ground of about 3 midfielders it also gives united the option if you lose 1 striker it aint so bad because you got the other
@Stateside Aussie – great post. but all this negative stuff is going to make this summer unbearable.
Sayyid – It’s not fucking championship manager mate. You said we’ll get 29 million for those players, Silva will cost that alone. We don’t need 3 or 4 players, 1 maybe 2 will suffice.
Talking about 4-3-3
If Ibragimovic goes missing will Barca have any major problems ? Messi plays in this system and suddenly moves to the position of the former. They have so much class in midfied. They can even afford to play without a striker.
it is over.
Why he played Rooney against Bayern instead of yesterday is nonsensical. Who gives a shit about Europe. Boring football throughout the tournament. As long as Messi still plays for Barcelona there’s only one team going to win it.
No Fletcher. No Evra. No chance of winning.
Berbatov just pathetic in his last 3 games. 30 million for a ‘striker’ who isn’t capable of kicking a ball without it being a poncy flick.
No money to spend. What is the point.
http://www.givemefootball.com/internationals/ferdinand-is-living-the-dream-with-england?
Few days back Rio said all think now is United now it’s all over. Maybe we should play Evans against City.
United>England
RTNK – Why does SAF keep buying young players/strikers. Thats easy mate, he hoping to unearth another Ronaldo and the reports about Hernandez have been good, they’ve watched the lad for months and decided to take a punt on him.
sell berbatov buy dzeko
For the fucking love of god SELL him
I’m tired of him now I’ve tried to support him but he is just SLOW he’s not fit for the manchester united style of play…i’m tired of him always putting out his hand for the players to wait He’s boring…Every now and then he puts a little trick and we say…huh maybe he is good
but then hes tackled and we lost possesion straight away! I’m not having fun to concede the fact we are almost a one man team we miss ronaldo we miss tevez we don’t want berbatov AND WE ALL KNOW IT DEEP DOWN
@RTNK
I have the same question about the stirkers. Say Berbatov leaves and we don’t buy someone for obvious reasons. Next season, we will have Rooney, Owen, Diouf, Kiko, Welbeck and Hernandez. 1 world class striker, 1 striker who can’t start every game and 4 (yet) unproven ones. They meay come good, but it could be risky depending on them so soon. And apart from Rooney, none of these 5 can play a 4-5-1 imo.
Corea – messi is a one off, despite losing eto’o and having that lump in ibrahomivic upfront it does not matter messi can cover up these shortt comings. hey if united had messi you could stick nani park upfront with messi and united would still score for fun because messi is tha dammnn good. barca played messi has the striker against the fascest and they still looked that much better barca are almost cheating having messi in their team
why didn’t we play evra i don’t know and after that beautiful interview i just knew he had adrenaline flowing through his veins
where the fuck is costas i need his inspiring words
We did start the season playing 442, and we were overrun in midfield many times, that was why we changed back to 451.
I am glad more people are seeing the light that it is our midfield that needs to buck up, we have good defensive players, but not 1 attacking midfielder to stray just outside the opposition penalty box.
Take a look at the Barca vs Real match, the first goal. The position Xavi was in when he chipped the ball over Real’s defence, and now recall back the Blackburn game, or for any matter, most of our games, it was Rooney or Berbatov in that position most of the time trying to make things happen just outside the box, where was our midfielder who was suppose to be doing that job?
IMO, nobody leaves this summer, just 1 additional of a solid creative midfielder
Costas – The difference between Teddy and Berba, Teddy scored important goals for United and fans will always favour players that done it, when it mattered most. On formations, you can play 433, 451 or 442, but if you don’t have players to fit the formations, it won’t work. Players make the formations, not the other way round.
Costas – and that has what has worried me all season long, if uniteds midfield was like it was in the 90s and early millennium hey it would not matter how thread bear our strikers are, that is why barca get away with it they have a midfield thats so damn brilliant and messi who seems to be possessed by the devil or god himself they could stick my granny upfront and get away with it well thats a bit crazy to say that be you know what I am getting at. But that is why I want united to just add a top class midfielder so united can return to 442, yes 433 has been good but berbatov macheda etc are tactical nightmares they cant lead the line in a 433 because berbatov comes deep and the rest are to inexperienced when to time the runs.
but united need to return to a fluid 424 we had a phew years ago when united won the prem and euro double, great at defending but deadly on the counter where it is 4 passes bang bang and they test the keeper. To have that to happen they need to just add a world class midfielder like alonzo who can run the show imagine a alonzo type player and fletcher in the middle letting valencia nani berbatov and rooney rampage forward now that sounds like a united class midfield 2 and front 4.
willierednut – lets hope so he is the same age has benzema and has been described by the LA times has the new generation of Mexican talent that is coming through I think he will be far better than the back up of berbatov macheda diouf welbeck but we will see how quickly he adopts.
It’s true that WE never die but now it dosen’t depend on us. What a sore summer I’m going to have ! I feel so down and p….d off……..
If Berbatov put half as much energy into running as he did into yelling and gesturing at his teammates he would have been a heck of a lot more effective.
Sunday was all bark no bite. We had no cutting edge. A Rooney-less United really does lack edge and tenacity.
Another thing I cant understand about berbatov is why he ended up playing as an attacking midfielder on sunday? was it due to SAF’s instructions or did he just drop deep out of his own free will? i doubt he got into the box more than 3 times in the 1st half..and it wasnt just due to our midfield
As for evra not playing thats easy. He’s played in every game this season and was well overdue a break, ltes not forget that during our injury crisis he was our only fit first team defender, and it seems to be catchin up with him cause over the past few matches he’s seemed a bit jaded
If we are to spend any more money in the summer it should be on a GK and an attacking midfielder. Otherwise we’re going to have to use the kids a bit more next season. I can’t see Berbatov leaving this summer, Fergie will stick with him. It’s also unlikely that we will buy a second striker after signing Hernandez.
for 09/10 season Tevez > Berba
Fze123 – like I said if united can add that top class midfield general united will be fine. someone with that bit of class to control the game to play alongside fletcher it then gives united the options to play 424 again even in the big games
@rooney the new king … I think the 424 formation is what SAF had in mind when he bought Hargo. I remember him saying that Hargo could cover the ground of two men and that would give us more options up front. And I think that may have been in his thinking when he bought Berbatov too. SAF no idiot: he must have known what sort of player Berba is. I also recall him saying that he wanted Berba’s ability to hold the bll high up the field, and it also gels with his comments about needing to be more patient in Europe. All of that points to a plan of playing 424 (or 442, depending on how you classify the wide-men).
Of course, no-one foresaw the long term injury to Hargo, did they? So until he comes back, or SAF finds another player for that role, I think we are stuck with the current system in Europe and major matches at home. It sucks.
If that happens, tho, it much mean the end of the road for Berba. The sight of him sitting on the bench, while Rooney hobbled around crippled, basically immobile against Munich, drove that point at home. And so has what’s happened since then. Not his fault that the system has changed, and I do feel it’s a dreadful waste because in the right system, he could have added a new dimension to our play. But not as it stands. If it’s to continue next year, everyone (including him) would be better off if he left. For mine, I’ll miss him. I’ll also miss the “what might have been: if fate hadn’t stuck it’s ugly face into the picture.
@RedDeviled Egg
Tevez (the person who cannot stop lying and bashing our club) vs Berbatov?
Goals scored yes, but as a human being?
Berbatov > Tevez
thought Macheda actually linked up pretty well in the first half, he was certainly a lot more involved than Berba. What has happened to Diouf does anyone know? Him and Macheda need some matches and then I’m sure good times will follow next season between Wazza, Berba, those 2 and the new Mexican.
Stateside Aussie – that is why I call berbatov one of the unluckiest players to come to united that his talents are no longer requiered in fergusons new formation change 433, veron was unlucky also that fergie had to much faith in roy keane when he he past it in the 2002/03 season when it was keane who should have left in summer 2003 not veron.
Stateside Aussie said, No – one saw the long term injury to Hargo, Maybe they should have, the guys been injury prone his whole career.
Look guys. We lost both games to Chelsea. 12 points lost.
Everytime we had the chance to catch up on them we blew it
Birmingham January 1-1
Everton February 1-3
Blackburn 0-0
Against Villa away february after Nani’s sending off he outplayed them but again lost valuable points. 2-2 against Sunderland after an awesome goal from Berba. Fergie rant at Wiley and as Costas said during those days it was going to make it difficult for us and he was bloody right.
7 games lost, 4 drawn. Not a championship winning run.
When City beat Chelsea at SB i said we must make sure we win at wastelands. not sure we will do it. but we MUST fight till the end.
@Stateside Aussie – brilliant post at 19:02. if only my english was better.
lets make united work for that title starting by winning at the council house on saturday and wiping tevez smou grin off his face. keep the faith fellow reds.
@RTNK
4-4-2 as we know it could be over mate. Don’t get me wrong. I love playing with wingers and 2 strikers, but look at the midfield. You have to use 2 world class midfielders to do that nowdays. And it’s not easy at all to find them. People say that we don’t have midfielders like we used to, but look at Keane-Scholes from 10 years ago. Could they be as dominating in today’s game where teams look to pack their midfield? I have a slight doubt about that. It looks like 4-5-1(4-3-3 if you are Barca) or 4-4-2 with a diamond formation is the way to go nowdays.
@willierednut
That’s true. And maybe that was the problem this season. Having to flip flop with formations because of players being better at a certain type. Maybe that should be the focus next season. Finding one formation, finding the personel for that formation and sticking to it. Agreed about Teddy. And the turning point was a big goal in a big game. The C.League final.
KEEP THE FAITH FELLOW REDS lets make chelski work for that title by beating the berties at the council house this saturday and in doing so wipe that smug grin off tevez face.
@Corea … thanks. Your English is OK, good enough to make a point, which is all that matters anyway.
@rooney … yeah, that bitch Lady Luck strikes again. But seriously, I can’t see the current formation working longer term either, especially in Europe. Not at the highest levels, anyway. One way or the other, got to fix the midfield. I;m not familiar with this midfielder you mentioned, Alonzo? I’ll have to check him out. Not easy to follow football from over here in the states. I buy a service that includes all our PL matches and Europe, but I am not exactly immersed in it day to day!
@Macheda IS GOD
I am here mate, lol. Don’t have any inspiring words left I am afraid. Just find something to do on May 9th other than watch the Pr.League trophy presentation.
@Stateside Aussie – cheers. there are things i can’t put into words especially emotionals. i couldn’t have expressed my thoughts on Berba anywere near as you. it is so frustrating. I love him so much and seriously thought he will give us that spark.
Costas – well not the ridget 442 of 99, but the flued 424 that was used in then 07/08 season, where it was scholes carrick, we had a floater in ronaldo playing behind the front 2 of rooney and tevez while giggs hugged the touchline on the left. if united add a world class player that player plays alongside fletcher, valencia can be the main out an out wide player while nani has that floater role to play behind rooney and berbatov.
With regard to veron atleast we got 15mill. we might not get 10mill from this man
but you are propably right 442 maybe dead but there are always different ways to play 442 not has ridged has 99
Fuck berbatov
he didn’t step up when we needed him…Rooney did remember at the beginning of the season he said i’ll get ronaldo and tevez’s goals he did and he did that all on his own why can’t berbatov do that? WHYYY
@RTNK
It wasn’t Scholes’ season so much. He missed 4 months that season. A man who played a huge part in making that system work for us was Ando. It was also Carrick’s best season, plus Rooney and Tevez were tracking back a lot. You’ve said it in the past, but that season was probably a one off. Many players coming together while they had their best season for us.
I would like to think that there’s still a system for Berba to work in, but we will need to sort out the midfield.
Costas – yea that is true but when scholes did return to fitness fergie retored him to the starting lineup. I loved the midfield of Hargreaves Anderson and also I always thought tevez also was like another midfielder, which was perhaps uniteds most physically aggressive side since 1994. With VDS Ferdinand vidic Hargreaves Anderson ronaldo Rooney tevez were all physically very hard players in terms of what they brought to the table which was partly why united did do well in england and Europe the legs and energy in the team only CM and LW was rotated while te rest played nearly every game.
now if united are gonna get the best out of berbatov fergie will have to sign a top class midfielder and return to 424, this may sound dumb but say Hargreaves comes back how about stick Hargreaves RW for the big games, we can have Nani rooney berbatov has a flair player while Hargreaves can rotate from RW to CM so it gives united the energy but also we have more to aim at in many games with 2 upfront. Like we done in the CL final in 2008 scholes carrick in the middle, Hargreaves wide right, ronaldo on the left supporting Rooney and tevez shame that was not the team for the CL final in 2009.
@RTNK
Hargo could be the answer to the problem. But in an ideal world, I would like it if we played a systemt that didn’t rely on any player. Hargo will come back, but if he misses one game, it will start a chain reaction of having to switch the formation.
I wasn’t here at the time, but when Scholes came back on January of 08 and pretty much took over Ando’s place I was quite pissed. I thought Anderson was our best midfielder that season. In the end, it didn’t make a big difference, but I thought that Ando was a unnecessary pushed aside at the time. What happened with him the next two seasons, is anyone’s guess. Not trying to start a CQ debate, but I wonder if Ando misses his comunication with Quieroz.
@ Corea … I put a comment on another blog a week or so ago but in case you missed it, it was a quote from one of Berba’s ex-teammates at Spurs. He said “Berbatov found a part of time we didn’t know existed.” Sums him up nicely. Also sums up what we are missing now, with the way things have forced us to use him. For us, now, I would change the quote: “Berbatov finds a part of time that United have no way to use.” Shame. But maybe not all is lost. Sooner or later the midfield issues have to be resolved. I hope that happens while Berba is still with us, because then we would be a truly formidable team. I also like what rooney the new king said, about using Hargo to switch between the RW and CM. I remember how devastating Hargo was on the RW aganst Roma a couple of years ago — tore them to shreds.
I like Nani on the left, playing in front of Evra and cutting inside as a “wrong-sided” winger. It seems he has learned how to do that better in revent weeks, and it can be very effective. In the MF, we could have Hargo and Fletcher/Anderson, and Tony V outside on the right; or 3 midfielders (with Hargo switching between CM and RW); and then Rooney and Berbatov up-front. That would be a great set-up. It would give us tactical flexibility too: could switch to Rooney as a lone striker against the right opposition, or even play three in the MF with no widemen and three strikers (Rooney, Berba and Owen/Macheda/Diouf or that new Mexican striker). Depending on the opposition and the pitch conditions and the state of play at any moment, we would have at least 3 and maybe 4 or even 5 different combinations that would all work — but it rests on the MF. Cheers!
Costas – It’s more likely he misses Ronny lol.
@Stateside Aussie
Hargo could also do a job at right back if, like this season, we have major issues with that position again.
I just want to see him in a United shirt again on the pitch, whether it be in goal or up front!
Oh Scott, I’d psyched myself down over the last week – we’re not going to win it. But then I read your blog, and I know a fat lady, and she’s not singing yet!! Heaven help my nerves again!
why dont we just forget whos shit,whos to blame!!!
we have 4 games left, lets get behind the team regardless……………………………………………..lets finish with a roar starting saturday come on you reds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry scott, berba is a gr8 player but his 1st touch is 2 slow for quick PL football where u won’t get time on the ball. it dosen’t matter if ur slow in running look at xavi for ex, we can’t blame berba though for it. its simpley just not happening for united..its 2 predictable these days ..Fans deserve sum thing this season com’n u devils beat shit out of man shit oops man shity!!!!!!!!!!!!
Win, Lose, or Tie, United till’ I Die!!!
@willierednut
Lol. Or maybe he lost his ability when he got that ridiculous haircut in the China during the Olympics.
@Stateside Aussie I really agree with a lot of what you say. To me all the problems turn on what is (not) happening the center of the park. Without a center midfield that can retain possession; provide a screen to the back four; and fill that whole that right behind our striker, we are going to struggle.
I do wonder though, while you talk about Hargo, can we really rely on him? I would love to see him out there, but don’t you wonder: will he ever play? I am an optimist, but what seems weird to me is that SAF said that both O’Shea and Hargreaves were close and that each would be on the bench. That was before the Chelsea game I know. O’Shea has since featured twice, Hargreaves has not even made the bench. That troubles me and makes me question whether he has it in him. He was the one that said after his reserves run out that it still hurts. I hope the best for him, but do wonder.
common u guys we have over achived this season its never easy loosing u r best players n fighting for title, infact other teams were shit than us . we were handicapped most of season without defendrs not 2 forget sum poor decisions by refs and FA 2 punish us unfairly..
Success is so hard but so sweet when we achive…
ONE UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have had so many opertunitys to overtake Chelsea and we have wasted them all, The team has not been good enough this year, I will say that our teams main strength is versatility and strength in numbers, that has been taken away for the most part of this season and its caught up with us, we have played Liverpool, Chelsea and Bayern, all with 3 in midfield and no options to rotate, with Anderson and Hargreaves out, Fletcher, Carrick and Scholes have played out of there skin in Central midfield, we have been ran ragged by Byrern and Chelsea, we have ran out of gas and could not break down Blackburn, the midfield performance was terrible, neve minf the strikers playing in front of it.
Next season I would like to see somthing done about, Set Pieces, so many have been none existant this season, Corners, Free-Kicks are being wasted from poor delivery, I also think we need more creativity in the Center of Midfield, there are not enough through ball coming from deep, Rooney and Berbatov are dropping deep becase the midfield is incapable at times,
We need a new Paul Scoles, Energy, Creativity, Goal Threat. those kind of players dont crop up very often but we need to be on the look out,
@ Lawman10 I said I would never post again, I did not say I would not read the Posts and THINK.
Your Point @21.10 right on the fucking nail. Shit happens and without dwelling on the past and the incidents that have occured and moments of misery.
I think all the negative cunts have now left, had there pop dig at the players,which I just cant do, not my way.I sometimes wonder have these people got any real passion desire for the Club.We are a team, right! to simply isolate one player blah blah for the blame makes no coherent sense.As you point out , lets get behind the Boys and bring the fucking hoose down at Wastelands.
Just think mate in Shittys case……….You can’t make Chocolate outta Shite.
Come On you REDS Believe just fucking cunting BELIEVE. Lets get over this, and for the Lads in Manchester to still have the bragging rights.
You know it makes sense.
spot on redscot…………………..time for positive post, we are united, & we will never die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did anyone else notice someone angrily calling something like “Stay up front Nani!!!” late in the game. Sounded like someone on the side line, perhaps SAF. Makes you wonder if Berbatov was told to stay deep and Nani to do the goalscoring.
Anyways. Berbatov is treated extremely unfairly in the media and the fans seem to pick up the negativity. He was actually one of the better performers (especially in the first half) but exhibited suspiciously negative body language in the second half; probably feeling the pressure from all the shouting and that clearly didn’t help with the doubters.
I remember many performances that were much worse from Rooney (early in the season), Nani, Valencia, Giggs, Scholes, and others. None of them receive the same treatment.
It is very sad to see our own fans contribute to the disintegration of a great player – the highest scoring second choice striker in the league – that is simply trying to do well for his dream team. And why… Because he cost 30 mil in an inflated market.
i saw the game and it wasn’t that the mid-field and wingers did not pass to Berba, it was more that they could not as he was still at the halfway line, so Nani and Valencia had to go it alone or wait and the move was ruined and play slowed down.
Hoenstly, watch the game, Berbatov never bloody runs into the box, had he done so and had correct positioning – he didnt need to sprint just bloody make a good run and get into the box — he would have got on the end of a hell of a lot more chances. he is a lazt ass bastard, he does one pass and fall asleep.
i have to say I hate the guy, mostly for his whinning and negative attitude on the pitch that poor me flapping and it is worrying that he has contributed nothing of any significance he just holds up play like a bitch – I wish owen was fit, it’s like playing with no striker.
1. Great post Scot
2. 4 matches to play, everything possible, we can be Champions, I believe!
3. I’m sick of reading all this “sell carrick, buy benzema or silva” stuff. “Fletcher is a squad player, not a class one” – (Paul Parker wrote it) – are you f–ing mad?!
And I really love this one: buy silva, hamsik and benzema – fans of Football Manager are very active on this forum
Little advice: don’t sell and buy players for next season: keep fingers crossed for winning title THIS year!
@Stateside Aussie… Great comment at 18:19. Agree with all of that.
@ Onion. Buddie I am assuming you are in the States or Austriaasia. not that is material in this debate. I will say this only once. Dimitar is class, he just needs a midfielder to find him in the forward postion which we dont have there in lays the problem.Dont for one minute think we are going to dump Berbatov.
We need different options in the final third we do when Wayne plays because of his duracell ability. In some games we will need Berbatov because its going to be akward to pick our way through a compact defence, hence the need for that Fox to see the pass for him. We need urgently a clever attacking midfielder.
If we dump him we will need some back up, oh you ask who, I personally will stick with what we have proven at the Spuds, Bulgaria, Bayer Leverkusen.
Just find that midfield general we require.
Anyways its not great agreed to see this flapping of arms like a brat with water wings on, but thats Foriegners for you, no bottle to fight for the cause, but SAF will turn that around.
Anyways gotta go, you believe what you want, all I know is i just got a call from the Pub, 6 pints in the barrel for me and mates waiting to take the piss out of me. Celtic cunts lol and the holy than thou mob.
Addios Reds
@so it goes – I agree with you, berba’s biggest issue was his inflated transfer fee…I also do feel like the pressure from all the media and now fans is getting to him. No one likes to be thought of as the scapegoat for all of united’s problems. He is a good honest player, but having to deal with all the media on his case about being lazy, sub-par, a flop etc has to be the worst thing ever for anyone.
So as fans of United, we should stand with Berba…Unlike other players, he has never said anything negative about the club, SAF, playing time etc.
redscot – It’s pointless mate, people have made their mind up about Berbs.
Maybe we can start a competition for the best excuse thats stopping Berbatov from fulfilling his potential at United. The winner gets a signed Berbatov United jersey. Sounds ridiculous? Well some of the comments made here to defend him sound equally bad to me.
True, he cannot be made the scapegoat for the poor results. But he has to be judged for his contributions to the team sooner or later. If I remember correctly, a few weeks back, there was an argument being put up that with Rooney in the team and with Sir Alex preferring the 4-5-1 system, one couldn’t expect seeing him in the playing 11. Then it was argued that with the current midfield being so poor, they couldn’t support the genius that is Berbatov adequately. The poor guy has to go backwards to be a part of the action. Another good one… the crosses put into the box are non existent or not good enough. Thank God this problem does not exist when Rooney plays or else we would have been doomed.
The best, in my opinion, is the press, the inflated transfer fee and the fans putting too much pressure on him, especially after Rooney’s injury.
He is a striker, signed to score goals. In an ideal world, we would have the likes of Keane, Robson, Scholes, Giggs etc playing in the midfield. But we don’t live in an ideal world, do we? The same “poor midfield” manages to create chances for Rooney to score. The same wingers deliver enough crosses for our other striker to score. Maybe he is not the recipient of quality crosses because he is not in the box. The guy is earning more in a week than the majority of us earn in a year. He is 29 years old and plays for his national team. Its not like he was plucked out of obscurity and can’t deal with the added pressure that this sudden success has bestowed upon him. Being a success at a top club like United is not just about having the ability but also the mental fortitude to deal with the successes and failures that come along with that honor.
I support him as a player when he steps on to the field as a United player. I want him to succeed as much as any of you. But I refuse to be suckered into believing all the baseless theories that are being put forward to hide the failures of the player to influence the game.
arijc – you are saying about the midfield but has everyone noticed uniteds midfield has never been out of this world since the days of the fantastic 4 of keane scholes beckham giggs, united have won trophyss the past phew years with an ok midfield not a world class midfield. Our indiviual brilliance upfront and the backline involuding the GK has been world beaters, but has anyone noticed our strongest area’s have declined due to departures upfront making only rooney the outstanding striker, and our entire defence has collapsed due to injury and now the vault of a defence is leaking goals.
I don’t like the way he’s been singled out when we lose, but you have to say the writings on the wall for his career at United.
The midfields been made weaker, mainly because of injuries and players loss of form. Hargreaves injury probelms have been never ending and Ando has never recaptured the form of his first season.
It really gets my goat that assholes spend half their lives and most of their limited braincells getting stuck into Berbatov for not tracking back, and then when he does, they bag him for not being in the box.
It’s been great to see some positive comments on here recently (not necessarily about Berbatov, but about things in general). I am still a bit bummed out because I can’t help feeling that, as a general comment on the season, we haven’t played as well as we might have done (I don’t mean with fantasy-land predictions of what might have happened if we’d had so-and-so. I mean with the current players, and including the horrific run of injuries that we had too). There were times when we were simply fucking awesome — the away match against Arsenal springs to mind, but there were others. And sometimes we were crap. But in between those two extremes, I just felt our average play was lacking something. But for me, that comes back to the midfield.
There’s been plenty of positives too. The rise of Rooney as a major striker — he was always great, but now he’s in the elite — is one.
And the season’s not done yet. Who knows, the rent boys could bottle it yet. Meanwhile, the demise of the mersey scum is a joy to behold.
As for next year, I don’t see the need for a wholesale clean-out. I think it’s time to draw a line under the great careers of Scholes and Neville (at the end of this season), and next year may be Giggsies last too. Which means it’s time for some of the youngsters to stand up and be counted — to take that next step. I’m not a huge fan of Carrick or Gibson. And there’s a massive question mark over Hargo. So I expect the next two years to be a transition, maybe in defense too. If I were SAF, I’d be looking to strengthen the midfield, especially if Hargo isn’t going to make it (hope he does, though).
As for strikers, much depends on what systems we play next year, which in turn will depend on the midfield. If we can move away from the bloody current 451 (or 433), to some form of 442, then I hope Berbatov stays. if not, I hope he goes (for his sake, as much as anything), but then I wouldn’t replace him, just use some of the youngest wherever necessary. Either way, no point in spending squillions on some superstar striker. One problem we didn’t have this year was scoring goals.
But I honestly think those fans who are drawing up huge shopping lists of stars have lost the plot. If that’s your idea of building a team, better go support the rent boys, or citeh, or those prats over at real madrid.
Lets just forget about the league for this season, stop berating the players, namely Berbatov and Carrick, get behind the team whoever plays, and enjoy what games we have left. We’ve done well to be where we are this season, we’ve got lots to look forward next season, apart from the debt, life’s peachy for Man Utd fans really, we should appreciate that a little more.
willierednut – that is propably true what I am saying is during our success the past phew years the midfield has always been weaker than the backline and the attack, it is not the midfield of the 90s that is what I am saying
619 has it spot on. Berbatov has been dropping back to receive support because of the lack of a creative midfielder. Or even a proper enforcer. This is shown by his ability to occupy defenders if Scholes and Fletcher are playing well. In the 2 games in which he has been less effective, (and let’s face it, before the Chelsea game nobody had a problem with Berbatov), the midfield has been inadequate. Now if we had a Schneider, things might have been different yesterday. Which brings me to my suggestion: Is there something wrong with playing Berbatov as a playmaker? I mean he passes as well, if not better than Carrick, rarely loses the ball and is able to bring players into the game. All the marks of a playmaker. We could flank him with 2 enforcers (Fletcher and Hargreaves) to do the graft. Seems entirely plausible.
PS
I know Sir Alex sees them all in training and knows best but a game against physical players like Blackburn’s was one for Diouf. I expect great things from that guy next season.
@willierednut
The writing is probably on the wall. Particulary if Sir Alex will have money to spend in the summer. Like you, what pisses me off most of the time is how he is singled out. It got to the point where he was singled out even when he wasn’t starting. Because he wasn’t a capable relacement to a player who is along with Messi the best in the world this season. It’s been almost a week now, but it’s safe to say that playing Rooney against Bayern was a mistake. Not only because we lost him for Blackburn. But in my opinion, it screamed desperation that was unnecessary in my opinion. Berbatov should have started that game. It probably wouldn’t have been 3-0 at the 40th minute(what Rooney could offer was lift the team and the crowd by his mere presence), but who knows how it could have went?
@Stateside Aussie
Great post.
We were very lucky to have that midfield we had in the 90s, but lets get real, there isn’t that many top class midfielders of keanos type anymore.
Costas – well I have not singled him out. We were spending half the time to talking about what formation to get him back in the team, for me if berbatov is going to start week in week out for united, they need to sign another CM and change back to 442 or a fluid 424 like in the double winning season or the 442 on 2007. Like I said berbatov has been unlucky united no longer play 442/424. It is 433 and berbatov does not fit 433 when like I said he is a 442 player. I want fergie to go away from this formation which is gambling and playing russian rullet because once the main man is out the whoe system fails like a heart stopped working.
Yeah, it backfired playing Rooney against ze Germans, but even when Rooney came off, Berbatov should have been the replacement, but saf chose Nani to play up front, says it all really.
willierednut – they do not exist but I said back in march 2006 to many united fans, you get this midfield sorted we will do special things and we did, many do not realize united will be an outstanding robust machine again if united sign this world class midfielder, you get this midfielder the whole thing will all fall into place. But does anyone else agree with me in the next phew years united’s spine will be indeed in a rebuilding process. its fine on fullbacks and the width but GK CB CM CF are in a rebuilding process with VDS ferdinand vidic how long will these 3 be together, the reshaping of the CM with carrick scholes hargreaves are either out look on poor form and winding down the years, and how will the CF position be shaped with the outstanding rooney and what to do with berbatov and how does fergie get the young players of macheda welbeck diouf ad the mexican forward fit into exxt years team, that is where we will see how uniteds spine will be reshaped.
@RTNK
Yeah mate I know you haven’t. Your take on it has been quite fair. What I am refering to is situations where we see the line up before a game and jump to conclusions. Something that also happened with Carrick before the Blackburn game. Not that I am cutting Carrick any slack, but we could have done with his passing on Sunday.
Not sure if this post will get read as I am writing it at 8.30am in Adelaide. I watched the game on sunday with growing frustration and not just at United but at Blackburn for the way that they had set out to play. it is very difficult to play your usual passing game when the opposition have set out to harrass you and committ niggling fouls if you are getting away from them. Watch the game again and be dispationate about it and watch how every time a Utd player seems to be getting away how they are fouled by a sly kick or push or body check. Also see how every time a forweard or winger got the ball how many players were there. At least 2 so if they beat the 1st defender there was always a 2nd to beat. Great tactics from a defensive point of view and typical of Allardyce, but frustrating as we all feel that Utd should be able to deal with it and win by sheer superior technical ability. Unfortunately this didn’t happen and may be the defeat againstt Chelsea and in Europe has affected the players more than we know. Still, I remind myself back to the end of the 1992/93 season on my way back from West Ham, and after having to stand in the West ham end seeing our title dreams go up in smoke. Next year we were back as winners, same in 1995, and recently when chelsea won 2 in a row and we all thought that they were about to set of on a run of wins that we would not be able to stop. May be not this year but I don’t think we will have to wait 3 years for our next one!
Fergie’s thinking behind playing Nani as the main man was to hit them on the counter. It was good thinking. Unfortunately, our midfield wasn’t getting hold of the ball to supply him often. Again, hate talking in hindsight, but I thought that at 3-1, Berbatov could have been used to keep possesion. But Fergie had to do 2 substitutions to get all that sorted out.
StatesideAussie @ 23:55: “As for next year, I don’t see the need for a wholesale clean-out. I think it’s time to draw a line under the great careers of Scholes and Neville (at the end of this season), and next year may be Giggsies last too.”
From the evidence of the last few matches, Giggs-y should also be counselled to go while he’s damned-near the top.
“Which means it’s time for some of the youngsters to stand up and be counted — to take that next step.”
You are right, SAF needs to make a hard choice and I can’t see how he can do anything but play with “the kids”. Tough love, or 96 redux ? Only time will tell.
“I’m not a huge fan of Carrick or Gibson. And there’s a massive question mark over Hargo.:
Darroninho Gibinho needs to play consistently – same as with Darren Fletcherinho, who proved that SAF “knew” when he had a real prospect.
Michael Carrick looks like he’s in decline. Hargreaves coming back would really-and-truly be like a new player. And, Anderson needs to be given consistent playing time and put into a role in which he can display his formidable talent and strength.
I’m not sure about Dimitar Berbatov – he’s flubbed his chance to shine so far; basically, I think he’s a square peg in a round hole and I’d just cut-to-the-chase and sell him on even if it means taking a huge loss (accountants can turn that into a “profit” on paper !).
Even though he looked pretty clueless yesterday, I think that KikoTheKid needs to get consistent playing time. And, I’m excited about Mame Biram Diouf, too – so much raw talent (really raw and really talented). About Javier Hernandez, the Mexican bandit, who knows ? He sure looks like another talent from the clips I’ve seen on youtube but, then, so did Dong and Manucho.
The key to next year is going to be health – for WayneRooney, Edwin, and the two studs in central defence, as well as Patrice Evra and Darren Fletcherinho. If all those guys can avoid injury then there’s plenty in the locker to challenge on all fronts again. Beyond challenging, it’s a crap-shoot and this past fortnight TheLads crapped their pants and crapped out.
DarkRedOne @ 23:57: “let’s face it, before the Chelsea game nobody had a problem with Berbatov”
What planet have you been on ? there’s been lots of criticism of Dimitar Berbatov for a long, long time. A great many people – not just me – think he’s a square peg in a round hole. He’s just the wrong player, on the wrong team, at the wrong time. He doesn’t make WayneRooney play better and he takes playing time away from Nani and Valencia who really are dynamic complements to WayneRooney and, therefore, much less of a “problem”.
Costas – well even though I am no manager I am like sir Alex Ferguson pep guadiola and jose mourinho obsessed with tactics formations and balance, and what I look at is players bring to the table who do fit into formations. Yes I have been a critic of berbatov because what is missing from his game is his lack of drive coming from deep and because any deep line CF needs to go box to box or they wont be a potent force.
My defense on berbatov is many have cut berbatovs head off without taking into consideration 2008 we were not exactly a 442 team but united played a formation where it started from upfront with 2 strikers, but the team was narrow with ronaldo on a foating position where he started from right and would drive inwards interchanging with rooney and tevez and used giggs has winger who stayed in that position. so berbatov had support, with carrick and scholes delivering the service now the team has totally changed so really he cant play in the current formation. But if we ever going to see a better berbatov united must sign a midfielder change to a 424 or we will never see the best of berbatov and like what benitez says that is a FACT.
well the team has won everything so what has everyone got anything to complain about, even if its crap again next year the likes of rooney cant say he has won nothing.
Costas @ 0:03: “It’s been almost a week now, but it’s safe to say that playing Rooney against Bayern was a mistake. Not only because we lost him for Blackburn. But in my opinion, it screamed desperation that was unnecessary in my opinion”
You’re kidding, right ? I had to read this twice to see that you would NOT have played Rooney – who was involved in two goals and could have scored a third into an open net IF Rafael had squared the ball rather than shooting. It was WayneRooney’s presence that created space and a distraction that allowed Valencia and Nani to do their stuff. With Berbatov starting, that whole dynamic just deflates. And, besides, who knew that WayneRooney was going to re-injure himself ? I could see your point only if you claimed that WayneRooney should have been taken off when the score was 3-nil, after Nani scored his second. In hindsight, that would have been a time to reorganize and protect the lead since at that point, the tie seemed to be won. But, of course, hindsight ain’t worth shit.
There is no way I would not play WayneRooney (or Patrice Evra, or Darren Fletcherinho, or Nemanja Vidic, or Rio Ferdinand, or Edwin Van Der Sar or Antonio Valencia or Nani) in any game for which he is are fit. These guys are the core of the team – they are in prime physical shape and warriors – there is a big, big drop-off when someone replaces any one of them.
I will say time and time again the 433 2 wingers supporting striker is the reason why berbatov has not been a force he can fit into this formation, also add the fact the midfield is not strong enough to play a 2 so it is like a rock and a hardplace, it has been a real problem this season, but hear my words united sort this midfield problem out the CF position long term will be sorted out and it will thrive for many years to come and more trophys will be won in the next phew years it is sorting out this little problem which I call the final piece in the jigsaw.
@denton davey
You read my post twice, so you must have figured out that I am not saying that things would have been better had Berbatov started. I said it myself. Rooney was the main reason we were tearing them apart.
But, he wasn’t supposed to return 1-2 weeks earlier was he? It’s quite simple. You don’t start a player that’s not 100% and more importantly, you don’t give “the typical Germans” free shots at him. This isn’t about getting knocked out of Europe or losing Rooney for a possible bench spot in the crucial Blackburn game. We can lose both titles for all I care. We are Man United and we don’t need to play injured players no matter how talismatic they have been for us.
@RTNK
Lol, systems can be a pain to figure out and Fergie sure likes to switch things around. My main hope for next season, is to find one formation, build the squad around it and stick with it.
You have to say, he was really unlucky to go over on the same ankle again, but thats history now. Good night lads.
Costas – it is nice to have a plan B, but I agree stick to 1 formation. I hope atleast 8 of the 11 players he never rotats half the time because I cant remember the last time united played with the same 11. what also was weird is rooneys condition was like beckham in 2002 where he was close to another bad injury
Night willie.
@RTNK
The last time we played with the same 11 for 2 games in a row was Barca at home followed by West Ham at home. 2 years ago. It’s not always about tinkering. Sometimes we just switch our right back for example. In regards to Rooney, I was afraid of that. Sometimes players rush back and don’t train enough. There was a story a month back about Wayne skipping a few training sessions to avoid a burn out. Mind you, it was from the Daily Mail.
I am off too. Goodnight everyone.
I agree with the Law man, end off I am assuming he models his posts on the great Denis. Aberdonian, but hay we cant be perfect lol.
We can all bitch and fuck around about our choices of this and that.
The point the Law man made perfectly which I endorse for(zero money) Just get behind the boys and shout yer fucking hearts out at Wastelands. and the telly or net connection. Its sooooo fucking key, that game.
Scoring points on the net is lame we need to get the fucking ball in there net, Denis can you do us a favour and no relegate us, done with dignity if i recall from cds( United legend) But top post imho.
Just get behind the boys and lets get past this shite.
NOW MIND BOYS.
AND i May sound like a rah rah boy, do not be mislead bye words.
Just be there, it aint collapsed yet we are UNITED are we not?
Get in there, lets make it fucking happen.
Believe just, not comotose yet, alive and kicking On On Believe it can be overcome.
I just hope Rooney is back for the derby. If he’s not, I’m sorry to say the game will be all about damage limitation. Right now I’d be relieved to get away with a 0-0 draw or even a 1-0 defeat. That’s the kind of confidence Berbatov inspires in me.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to undermine RedScot’s very rousing speech.
@Fred
City will not be winning on Saturday. This bad run has got to stop somewhere…
@denton davey
What I meant to say was, we were not worried at the prospect of Berbatov leading the line against Chelsea. The system itself favored us and in the 2 games in which he had operated in the capacity of lone striker, he had kept all 4 defenders of the opposing team fully occupied. In addition, he had scored 2 goals. The mentality, going into the Chelsea game was “No Rooney, No Problem”. Things have not worked out for him, but I still think we should keep faith in the guy. By the way, Barca are going through pretty much the same thing with Ibra and he cost twice as much. You should hear what their fans had to say about him… until he scored 2 goals against Arsenal.
@ fred touche i think is the word. And trust me i never meant it against you when you went on a rally call and to sing your heart oot.
I just liked Dennis post i touched my my heart and my feelings. We must get together, not you and me thats way too gay! lol AS a team club and United and finish this season and win the league.
Enjoy yer posts over at the other side RR see the idiots have thrown in the towel, or none Gaelic speakers, pmsl
Goodnite mate I have things that need attention, purr purr.
Giggs played a great ball into the box, I think after a pass from Nani, low and early. Berbatov didn’t gamble to get on the end of it and Macheda was nowhere to be seen.
It would have made it a lot easier than just hoping for a miracle if this had turned out to be a win.
Well, that did not take long….
interseting comment about the welcome to manchester poster.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/13/carlos-tevez-criticises-roberto-mancini
that photo can put the fear and laughter in any human being. I know it is shallow to make fun of how people look, but seriously carlos, just what is going on with your face??
berbatov suits your formation about as much as eduardo suits ours,these are players with talent but if the team is not playing a certain way they start doing other jobs instead of what their good at because they go searching for service, they dont have enough strings in their bow to get through 90 minutes and find a goal or 2,simple, both need a 442, this 451 or 433 requires a super striker to bring the other players into the game by holding the ball up and being able to do the bust a gut runs into the 6 yeard box after getting the ball to aplayer in good space, berba isnt that, he is a 442 centre forward who plays off a striker, than means rooney or owen,and links the whole attack including the wingers to the midfeild,and score maybe 10-15 a season, i understand that injuries have killed the options but you cant just stick him upfront with another centre forward in macheda or alone really the wide players really let you down against blackburn, these are the games where you need to snatch a goal froma set piece or valencia when 1 on 1 being casual, i feel for the guy, but i can abosolutely understand the frustration because he dont do himselfalot of favours with his body language and his talk of learning to smoke his cigs like the godfather
@Rooney the New King 0:39
You are spot on here. United sort the midfield problem and the CF position resolves itself. I do not know if you think that it will sort itself by remaining at a 4-3-3. I believe that we will switch to the traditional 4-4-2 to play with the two strikers.
Either way, I really do not believe that our strikers are letting us down.
Good morning guys. Another great post from Stateside Aussie and from other valuable members.
I have nothin to add so far. Maybe say hello to mister arsene wenger and ask how is Bendtner a better player in 4-3-3 formation that Berba. Maybe because he scored a couple of goals of late ?
We have some 4 days before our next game. Had better find something else to discuss rather then our possible formations.
The difference between Cantona and Berbatov, apart from some of the blatantly obvious is when Cantona was on the pitch partnering kids, he was patient and encouraging, often trying to create opportunities for them or putting them in positions where they could build confidence instead of tearing them down when things never went as planned. He never gestured to them or acted like a spoiled buffoon dictating things as if he ran a symphony.
Just look at the disdain Berbatov had for Macheda in the Blackburn game. Fair enough Kiko fucked up a few times. But the kid is 18 for fuck sake, what benefit is it to snob him on the pitch, not pass to him when he’s open and give him stick in front of everyone when things are getting hairy?
That’s why Cantona will always be class and Berbatov will always be shit. And that’s why one deserves respect and the other deserves a bus ticket and the arse.
utd !! Sell Berba .He s big reason, why utd are out of CL & BPL (likely , but hopefully some twist happen.. ).. How many chances does a 30 Million forward need to score a goal .. I lost count in the lost few games.. Sell Berbatov..
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6090770,00.html
I dont like the reports that SAF is looking to next season, hopefully its just mind games before the weekend. I’m a Berbatov fan some of his play is unbelievable, but would I like to see him go in favor of an out and out goal scorer? I’m afraid I would, we have had to many stale performances this season, on only a few games this season have we looked like the world beaters that we know United really are. Without Rooney we need another player who will get 20+ goals per season put that with goals from mid-field and defense we will be back preforming like world beaters. But my biggest fear is that if we sell Berbatov he will come back to haunt us. Another reason i would like to see SAF spend a good few pounds is that all the doom and gloomers saying United are going down the drain will fuck off. The season is not over yet! we have 4 games the chavs have 5 starting at the mighty Bolton tonight (any praise Bolton might get from us might spur them on), in a season of twists and turns I believe that there are a few more twists and turns left and who better than United to take advantage of them….
BELIEVE
@Long John O’Shea – imagine Chelsea draw with Bolton and Liverpool and we lose title on GD.
Yes this season is full of twists and turns but we haven’t managed to take advantage of any favourable moments i’m afraid.
@Long John O’Shea
Talk of selling Berbatov while the season is still not over is stupid mate. Not saying that the article is false, but we still have some way to go before we make those decisions. Pay no attentuon to it. As you said, we still have 4 games that could be decisive. If Berbatov leaves though, I don’t think his next club will be a Premiership one.
As far as articles go, the one about Tevez that united.george posted is much more interesting. In case the deluded bitters were thinking that Tevez suddenly fell in love with their club…
I think that if we take all the injuries and poor ref displays we have had this year we havent done to badly. Of course it would have been nice to get to the CL final again but we can still possibly win the league. The ABU press wrote us off completely but we are still up there with the top teams!! I am now personally looking forward to next season, as Scott says the players will feel more hurt from this season ‘IF’ we dont win the league and hopefully take that into the new season and use that as motivation. With some new faces coming in and lifting the squad and hopefully not getting the crazy injuries we have this season I honestly think we could well win the league and get back to another CL final, as this year we have just been a little short at times when in previous seasons the whole squad, any player you could name was capable of pulling something out of the bag to win a game, like Kiko did at Villa last year, that for me is what we have missed this season and hopefully next seaon it will be back.
@Gee – yeah. just looked thru our results this season and apart from Owen’s last second goal against City nothing to cheer about in terms of the points gained in the dying minutes.
Corea, Fuck me that would be a nightmare, and I’m thinking (I’ll be crucified for this (and rightly so)) of a cheeky €20 bet on the ladyboy getting a hat-trick against the chavs.
Costas, yes talk of selling a player before the end of the season is not right as we need to be behind them 1000% from the beginning to the end of the season, but as any good chess player I’m sure SAF plans his moves 20 moves in advance. I think your right if Berbatov leaves he will not go to a PL club, but the only teams that could afford him and teams that a player of his talent deserves to go to are CL teams (I’m thinking Italy or Germany) would you bet againt him scoring the away goal to knock us out if we meet him in the KO stages??
@Long John O’Shea
That’s a nightmare scenario, lol. I hope not. I like Berbatov a lot, but when he leaves the club, he must not do well against us. We’ve been lucky that we’ve never had a player come back to haunt us so far. Beckham, Forlan, Teddy, Cole, Alan Smith etc ect. And lets hope it won’t be any different this Saturday!
And who knows? Maybe Berbatov will still be at OT next season, albeit in a more supportive role.
@parthi
after reading what you wrote i have to let you know you’ve joined the list of the worst kind of attitude of a football fan list
and just so you know the type of people that are on that list
you’ve stevie me supporters
team terry
and the fact that i was there in the west stand to see ireland v england in 1995
costas
is tevez a former united player
in the way that la sulk isnt a former liverpool player
saha isnt a former newcastle player
DB7 isnt a former PNE player
because they were just loaned to the club
but would tvez be a former united player as he was only here on loan
thou he was on loan from a pimp
@GHTT
I think he was. He did play 2 years for us and we payed 5 million for those services. I think he did a bit more for us than Saha did for Newcastle, lol. The only time that Newcastle fans saw Saha score was against them in 2008.
If Berbatov doesnt play against City, then we may as well sell him
If SAF doesn’t trust him in such a game, what does that say about Berbatov
I thought we brought him to play in big matches, and Owen to play in the smaller games
@ Corea – Exactly mate and then look at just last seasons stats, when we grabbed a few late goals and it was different players popping up to put the ball in the net. Its just not happened to the same degree this season.
@Sayyid
If he is fit, Rooney will start in a 4-5-1 formation with Berbatov on the bench.
Lets not start the big game-small game stuff again. Berbatov came to play matches in general. We did pretty well in big games before Berbatov came, so that’s not the reason why he came.
@Costas
Why do we need to play 4-5-1 against City
Their midfield is barry/de jong/viera…hardly xavi/iniesta
VDS
Rafeal Rio Vidic Evra
Valencia Fletcher Gibson Nani
Berbtatov Rooney
@Sayyid
Because that’s how Fergie has been lining up away from home this season. We played 4-5-1 at the Wastelands back in January,
Last season we beat City away with a line up similar to yours. The midfield was just a bit different: Ronaldo, Carrick, Fletcher, Park. I think the line up will be something like this:
VDS – Rafael, Rio, Vidic, Evra – Valencia, Carrick, Flethcer, Park, Nani – Rooney(or Berba if Wayne doesn’t make it).
@Costas
I dont want to see Carrick any more this season
He has disgusted me with his performances
ArseneWenger @ 4:41 – very good, concise post. A view from “outside” that makes the points that BerbaSceptics and BerbaFans have quarrelled about without any invective, just a clear-sighted analysis.
Costas @ 0:47 – Things would not have been better IF Berbatov had started against Bayern – we are in agreement about that.
With regard to starting WayneRooney – SAF seems to have listened to the advice of his medical staff (and the player himself). Now, not for one minute do I think that WayneRooney would give an “honest answer” but he must have done enough in training to convince the medics and Fergy that he was OK – perhaps not 100% but OK. At this time of the season, none of the players is 100% – it’s a marathon that demands skill and strength but also the ability to shrug off minor nicks and bruising. Some guys can do that, other guys like LouisLouisHaHa or Aquilani at LiverPoo just can’t do it. Some guys – like the two just mentioned – don’t seem to be able to play through pain and in the case of both of them the issue seems to be more “mental” than “physical”.
@Sayyid
Sorry, but I beg to differ. If we are going to put every player who might have let us down in recent weeks in the fridge, we might as well play with the reserves, VDS, Rooney and Nani on Saturday. Carrick is not in top form in the games he has played in recently, but our midfield hasn’t exactly clicked without him either.
@denton davey
First off, sorry if my post was a bit abrupt last night.
Look, I am all for players gutting it out and pushing through the pain barrier. And if there’s one player who has done it for us on a consistent basis, it’s Wayne. But I think it was a risk too far last Wednesday. Unless Sir Alex lied about the situation in he press conference, it seemed like Wayne came back a week too soon at least. Ankle injuries require that you don’t take chances like that. And as a club that prides itself on our squad depth, we didn’t need to resort to that.
At the end of the day, that risk didn’t help our cause in either competition, but at least Wayne didn’t suffer a serious recurrence to his ankle injury. That was a positive in all this.
Costas – no offence taken. I enjoy the back-and-forth. But I still disagree about team selection/playing WayneRooney against Munich because the 2010 version of TheLads is weak in attack without him. Every season is a bit of a “journey” and along the way this year we’ve discovered that the 4-3-3 with WayneRooney at the point of the attack flanked by Valencia and Nani is a great recipe for success. We’ve also learned – along the way, towards the end of the journey – that Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick, Ryan Giggs, Gary Neville, and Dimitar Berbatov are NOT to be counted on for next year’s trip to FergyWonderLand. It’s time to give the kids – like Gibinho and KikoTheKid and Rafael and Anderson – every chance to play on a consistent basis. It’s also time to give the two new strikers – Javier Hernandez and Mame Biram Diouf – the chance to break into the first-team. And, it’s time to pray for good health for Edwin, Rio, and Nemanja. I’m actually upbeat about what has happened this season in the wake of CR7′s departure – TheLads are playing like more of a team and while I would never – ever – dispute Cristiano’s talent, it was pretty clear at the end of the 2009 season that he was holding back WayneRooney and “forcing” a shape on the strategy that was not conducive to team play.
In this regard, it was very interesting to watch the classico on Saturday – Messi and Xavi (even without Andres Iniesta) dovetailed into a team concept whereas CR9 was left on the outside, looking in. I don’t think that Messi is a “better player” than Cristiano but he surely fits better into his team’s system because he is a team player – and his reactions seem to be connected telepathically to Xavi’s brain. What Messi does better than any other player in the world today is to anticipate the space, to anticipate the shape of his opponents, and to time his acceleration into the danger-zone. Having someone like Xavi who is on the same page only serves to enhance Leo’s quality. In contrast, Madrid play like eleven talented (and extremely expensive) individuals who each want a disproportionate share of the limelight.
I think that this contrast is relevant to the EPL and, more specifically, to UTD because what we’ve seen evolve over the past three months is the onset of telepathic understanding between the front three (Nani, WayneRooney, and Valencia) and that is a key reason why it seems to people like me that Dimitar Berbatov – great “technical player” that he is – is the wrong guy on the wrong team at the wrong time.
I think that a subsidiary point about this contrast can be related to UTD’s midfield – it isn’t good enough, Period. Reinforcements needed and Scholes/Carrick/Giggs need to be superseded. SAF got it right in replacing CR7 with a newly- organized front three. Before that, he got it right with bringing in Edwin, Evra, and Vidic into the defence. Now, his challenge is to find two other players to complement Darren Fletcherinho’s commitment to team play. If – and I really hope so – Anderson can step up next year then a big part of this puzzle will resolve itself.
Tom Cleverley has been terrific at Watford but it’s a big step up to move from the bottom of the Championship to the top of the EPL. There are two really young kids who seem to have “star quality” – Paul Pogba and Ravel Morrison – but it’s an even bigger ask to expect either one of them to step up next year. Otherwise, it might be necessary to spend some of the supposed “war chest” to enhance the midfield – I’d spend a HUGE WHACK to get Daniele De Rossi, regardless of his age he’s a fantastic talent with the kind of snarling aggression that’s needed to compete and to win. But, really, I’ve not seen anyone else in all my footie viewing who stands out so obviously from the crowd as to recommend himself. The two “English” options are Mikel Arteta and James Milner – neither has the necessary aggression and in Milner’s case I think he’s something of a jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none who doesn’t really possess what’s needed in his tool kit. He’s supposed to be a very smart guy, too, so he can’t really believe that there’s much future for him in staying at Aston Villa who have pretty much found their level under the massively over-rated Martin O’Neill – i.e, 6th, or 7th, or 8th.
Sorry to ramble on but it’s one of those mornings when I got up too early and need some kind of distraction before going back to my books for another couple of hours of work.
619 – no it will not unless we see a formation change and a midfield signing. Like I said beyond rooney, the likes of berbatov macheda welbeck diouf are tactical nightmares I dont know how the mexican kid will settle into united. But the rest they are built to play in a 442/424 formation rooney has been a gem because of his flexibility he can play 3 roles, second striker a central sttriker and lead the line in 433 because he is the complete forward, pace power great movement. now when it was the likes of ronaldo rooney tevez were all playing you could switch them from 424/442 to a 433 formation because of their ability to interchange.
But if united sort out the midfield the CF position does sorts itself out, because if united sign a top class midfielder then all of a suddent united can then go back to 442/424 because you have that general who can play alongside fletcher who can bounce of fletchers talents, and then you can then fit berbatov back into the team, but has long as the boss stays with 433 you will never ever see the best of berbatov it is simple has that.
corea, how you doing mate, i was meant to reply to your post earlier, i dont think bendtner is a more talented footballer than berbatov, i just think that bendtner is more willing to ignore the hissing from the stands and bust a gut to get the ball in the net one way or another, bendtner has cut out all the fancy crap that only comes off when things are going well and has just decided to use his frame,what makes bendtner better because he has scored a couple goals of late? well 9 in 18 aint bad, 30 odd in 60 odd (16 last season despite being on the bench mostly)games aint bad, the only difference for bendtner lately is he is being played directly up top, he aint worried about messing his hair up or smokin his fag a certain way, berbatovs is at the end of his career where as bendtner is at the beginning, for me this makes him a better player, strength and pace, berbatov has neither so cant lead the line, same as eduardo, but they would make a good combination for a 442…..let me just add, iv never really knocked bendtner but im still not convinced by him,but he has improved physically this season