Dear Sir Alex,
As lifelong Manchester United fans, we are disappointed and concerned by quotes attributed to you in a recent interview. Many of us are the same fans who protested to denounce Cubic Expression back in 2005. These are the same fans who had previously offered you their unwavering support during your private dispute over Rock of Gibraltar’s breeding rights, despite Cubic Expression raising some very pertinent questions. In the spirit of fairness, we would like to invite you to clarify these comments by responding to a brief summary of our concerns:
1. You suggested that ‘the majority of real fans will look at it [Glazer ownership] and see that it’s not affecting the team’. Can you clarify what constitutes a real fan?
2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans?
3. Have you personally met with any of the dissenters to determine how deep their commitment and affection for United may be?
4. What are your thoughts on an atmosphere which gets markedly worse each season as more and more local, traditional fans are marginalised and alienated from the club?
5. You are also quoted in the interview as claiming ‘I’m absolutely comfortable with the Glazers situation. They’ve been great’. You are clearly aware of the opposition from the United fan base – does that not make you uncomfortable in any way?
6. What, in your view, would constitute poor owners?
7. You have repeatedly claimed to have been backed financially whenever you have requested transfer funds. Is this your only consideration when determining what represents great ownership?
8. You continued the interview by saying that, ‘the salaries, agent fees – is just getting ridiculous now’. Whilst we agree in tone, it does represent a sea change in attitude from pre Glazer transfers. Agent fees in both the Ferdinand and Rooney transfers were criticised at the time for being excessive, so why does the club now refuse to meet market conditions for the top players?
9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?
10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’?
Given your personal background and previous support for fan involvement we hope you take the trouble to respond to our deep concerns about both the club’s situation and the wording of the interview quoted.
Signed,
Concerned Manchester United Fans
Facebook
Man Utd News 24/7
Great questions, No answer to come however.
Scott, I am sure you’ll get plenty of responses on this post my friend…a pndoras box if there ever was one!
This was referred to by many posters on here earlier in the day.
I think it was Giggs12 who brought it up in one of his comments
Some of the points raised are very valid..
Although in my humble opinion, I dont think these open letters serve any real purpose…
Its not like Sir Alex is ever going to consider responding or even any journo will muster up the courage or risk getting getting himself banned for bringing this up…
I am curious to know how many fans were involved in writing that letter? Just hope there is enough of that paper left so they can shove it
.
Its about time he stops giving answers his bosses would want to hear and speaks the truth
stop being all dramatic.I think fans should be all about the football and not this admin issues.
Serious topics here. And it seems like a wave of discontent and division seems to have been gathering momentum since 4-5 seasons ago.
Very serious indeed.
I wonder, in light of this being such a serious thread, how many dipshit, clueless, plastics will come on here and post something to the effect of “Man U is da best. Go rooney. I think dat SAF needs to invest in 2-3 world class playerz. Please just a few mor playerz so we can compeet with City. For me martinez and kaka and maybee messi. Yes Glory Glory Man U.”
I feel disgusting having just typed that btw.
Pint Glass of Vodka
Quality mate….hahaha….had me spit out my dinner there laughing out loud.
Danzizu:
Yes totally agree. Football fans should be totally attentive to issues on the football field and not worry about all this administrative stuff. Just leave that to the experts.
Sincerely,
Supporters of Rangers FC
Supporters of Leeds United
and Supporters of Portsmouth
Reading this make me so excited because we are no longer active in the transfer market the way we use to be before so called Glazzer take over. I just want them to go. SAF don’t tanish your image pls. A word is enough for the wise. GGMU
@Red Devil
Ha! Glad you liked it mate!
can understand ur frustration scott and the same goes for many of the fans but i would really just like to concentrate on gettin the title back from city if thats ok, bottom line is we will always have yellow pages book full of ppl wanting to buy united if things go wrong which i doubt they will…..lets just forget about the glazers for the time being and whats being writin in the press and concentrating on the football side
Pint Glass of Vodka
Just on cue, we have a muppet
God I havent laughed so hard in a while
Gill, Sir Alex and the Glazers have been screwing us since the takeover. We only have ourselves to blame, we have done nothing. Like it or not, we should have taken a leaf out of the verim from Liverpools book. And get rid of owners before it’s too late.
Today was another day when the Glazers, Gill and Sir Alex topped up their bank accounts.
R.I.P M.U.F.C
@Danizizu: it’s not being dramatic, its real, and these are real issues about the future of our club. They are uncomfortable amd ugly issues, but ignoring them won’t make them go away.
@PGoV: top moniker and top posts. I’ve a feeling you used to post under another name in the past. Could you just yes or no?
Danizuzu
Correct fans just come and go however I’m a supporter and care much more than the results on the pitch.
Red Devil
Indeed mate I posted this on the Rio thread this morning. It will do fuck all though as you say plus the fact Red Issue has done nothing but slate Fergie for years now.
Cedars
Mate as much as we love SAF he is not above the club pal. I say that with the greatest respect. He should not be abused like he has by some but he should also have the same respect for the fans.
Pint of Vodka
Top post mate waa laughing with king Eric about this not so long ago.
Pint Glass of Vodka
Fucking epic moniker if there ever was one
Why Fergie wanted to have that interview, who arrange it, who would get benefit from it, and why the interview was held?
Red Issue does lay into Fergie a bit. This letter will do nothing, good in theory but not in practice. Fergie bans journos from top papers at his press conferences, stopped speaking to the BBC for a decade. Whoever wrote this must be in cloud cuckoo land if they”re expecting a response.
Giggs12
To me Sir Alex is beyond critic mate, I have no issues with people criticising his footballing know how, team selections etc……….But for folk coming on here calling him names is purely unacceptable
I posted under Dean Strauss a few times before. Mostly just lurked around ROM without posting. Hoping to pick up some United tidbits from you fools!
I went to my favorite Mexican restaurant the other day after a long day of work. These Mexican waiters are used to everyone, and I mean everyone, ordering either a margarita or a Corona. They aren’t used to cocktails. So I ordered a vodka/tonic with a lemon and a lime. The waiter made me repeat my order like 3 times. Then, confused, he walked off. He returns with a fucking PINT GLASS OF VODKA and ice. (no tonic)
Moniker was born.
(It fucked me up, btw, my wife practically had to carry me home and tuck me in bed)
Cedars
I completely agree with the last post mate but this letter is not calling him names as your first post suggests.
Just saying mate just because he is questioned doesn’t mean someone is calling him names
D best way to force d glazers out is by not attending matches. Empty stadium will put everybody under pressure starting from staffs coaches glazers and the players. And that will make the players to ask questions, which I believe that even the stubborn fergie will rethink.
^No intended racism on that Restaurant post. The waiters there are top lads and I play Sunday league ball with some of them.
Only one tonic for this….. FOOTBALL. Roll on August 5th. chance to see Kagawa with the starters.
All I’ll say is that Fergie’s comments that day have been taken waaaay out of proportion.
*sigh*
He’s damned if he doesn’t state his support with the Red Issue viewpoint as he will continue to be accused of complacency and tacit acceptance of the Glazer regime. We (Manchester United fans) are all potentially damned if he does, because he will probably be given the sack.
Yes! Shove it up their ass! These kind of letters might actually lead to some serious debate (not on this blog though) and fans might focus on something else than “just getting the title back from city”. That is low. Questions raised in the letter are very much valid and how someone can just laugh them off is baffling.
If SAF does answer he won’t give an answer on ownership.
If he says the Glazer’s are overpowering then he could face the sack.
However I doubt he would as no man united fan would go to the games.
I’m a season ticket holder and I support the team on the field not the glazers.
If you want te Glazer’s out then these so called red knights should be the 10% of the shares
Sort of the tail trying to wag the dog….
As if SAF is going to answer it
The problem is that while we are still being ‘successful’ on the pitch the administration and the manager will forever use that success as a reason not to acknowledge the concerns of the fans.
I expect there is huge concern being shown behind closed doors, but the club and manager must produce the same old ‘everything is great, look at how we’re doing’ bullshit in public.
It’s a difficult situation for the fan, because without a doubt the Glazers would be forced to sell-up if we went a number of years with very little success. They are running a business after all, no matter what romantic notions we have, and it is in their best interests to keep investing money in players and to keep the club in a position of success as this generates profit.
Ah Dean Strauss…………Epic stuff
Giggs12
I was not referring to the letter being abusive mate, but to some folk on here
Anyway I am pissing off
Cedars
Fair play pal was having a pop at you either way buddy
Wasn’t having a pop I meant
Football (owners), Bloody Hell!
We as fans are concerned with the management of the team. We pay for match ticket and so we want the best for the club. We want our money well spent in purchasin quality players not ‘no value in the market’. Our midfield is in total shamble, yet we are lukin for winger. Fergie, dont make us loose our trust in you.
Whats the point of this letter. Lets assume Fergie answers all those questions. Then what….. everything has been fixed, all the debt has been cleared, we will celebrate our new signing Messi. What the fuck do you want to hear from our manager, that our club is fucked and he can no longer work with the Glazers therefore hes gonna retire with immediate effect. Lets put it this way, you have a few days to live what do you tell your child….
a) everything will be ok when i pass
b) sorry son when i die your fucked
Pointless questionnaire to our manager,try sending one to the owners it would be more relevant.
May be just may be,
the time has come where the Anti Sir Alex gang will exceed anti Glazer..
###
someone gave answers to these Qs in other thread,
someone we all know
###
Pint Vodka got you ripped… My name should be Snakebite10 pints then
For the record most of the questions are actually legitimate but I disagree with majority of people who are trying to claim that Fergie is against the fans cuz he isn’t. The major point he was trying to put across that day is to focus on what has made United the commercial force that it is. THE FOOTBALL. but it’s the controversy that sells papers isn’t it?
Also I think that Question on Rooney and Rio is just flat out dumb. There are ridiculous agent fees involved with big time players. And both of them have proved their value over time. Again we do not need to spend crazy on money and buy half of the footballing world just to make a statement. We just have to buy what we need and if you look at the squad, we don’t need much.
Also whilst I respect tried and tested fans leaving the club to form a brand new one was far too much. That’s like running away from the problem.
Giggs12
Ah yes…I remember more clearly now…you and Dreaded Red were going at it hammer and tongs in the Rio thread. Its never going to achieve anything this kind of open letter. I dont think it ever has anywhere. And it’s precisely why Sir Alex says that the Glazers are good owners…because under the PLC, he could have all and sundry, cunts who have no idea about football and how it works come up and ask him ridiculous questions at the AGM on agent fees, etc etc just because they own a few shares.
I’ve seen it in my own company AGM’s…some bloody idiots holding next to nothing in the company will come up and ask the stupidest of questions or ask for so many details its unreal. I’ve felt like strangling those people sometimes personally because I have to prepare the answers to some of those questions for the management
So its no surprise he was glad to get rid of that circus.
But at the same time, nobody can be above question although I believe Sir Alex has done enough in his time here to not have people on here abusing him and calling him names.
Ping Glass of Vodka
great story mate…funny as fuck…
So its no
Parry,
right on the money pal,
send these god damn fucking Qs to Glazers..
Great question. i luv it
Sorry…that was Pint…Bloody typos..
Scott,
Mate, i have nothing against you or the blog,
as much as i enjoy your posts and also constructive criticism,
why the fuck you havent taken any action on fans calling Sir Alex as cunt and all?
why can’t you ban them when you can ban people for other reasons?
i would request you to maintain that impartiality when it comes to banning..
ban these fuckers who abuse Sir Alex,
let them bring the constructive criticism and i m all for it,
but them calling the greatest United manager with fuck all names and you aint taking any action on them, where the fuck are we heading?
I dont know whether you have gone through the posts are not, but THAT IS JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE..
###
Giggsy12,
Evening mate, how are you?
agreed, no one is above the club, not even Sir Alex, i understand your support against people calling the legend by names,
but its time to take action on them pal when we get bans for fuck all reasons..
that is just my opinion anyway..
Can’t tolerate these pussies who have come up with conspiracies such as Sir Alex pocketing money etc..
fuck them all..
Danny,
yeah pal you bet the media played its hand even..
Is this a joke? These questions read like a 5 year old asking his parents why he can’t have a second dessert.
I’ve heard many times that, “You don’t choose your club, it chooses you,” which is nice and sweet and cute and dear and darling — but let’s face it: You choose to support Manchester United. Why do you sweet and dear and darling and, most effusively, entitled lot feel you have the right to question SAF’s leadership? Why does he owe you an explanation for every decision he makes? I really have never heard a good answer to those questions. Because you buy shirts? Because you pay for tickets? Because you were born in Manchester?
While I fully support “real fans” voicing their concerns, this particular letter is exceedingly childish.
Re: Glazers
Most sane fans can look at the amount money United pays in transfer fees and be content (I know I am). The total amount.
Now, some of you may have reservations as to -where- we have spent this money (no CM, ect). But you can add up the fees that have been spent in the last 2 summers, and you should be reasonably satisfied. Big money on Young, Jones, De Gea, Kagawa. Moderate money on Powell. No stupid Ronaldo-80M type signings. But still, a large amount of money.
No. Most sane fans have a problem with all the OTHER bullshit that the Glazers impose on United.
Just realized I’m talking in circles.
“Man u iz da best, go Rooney!!”
@pint glass- f’ing brilliant pal!
very emotive subject and some great posts above esp pint glass!!!
I hope Fergie reads the letter but I very much doubt it and even so i doubt there will be a response.
I’ve lost a lot of my respect for Fergies over this. The man has tarnished his impeccible legendary status by not only remaining silent but going a step beyond and endorsing those parasites.
I was reading a different united blog earlier which was saying that there are conditions in the prospectus of the IPO saying that Fergie may even benefit financially from the floatation.
http://thefaithfulmufc.com/2012/07/31/will-sir-alex-stab-every-united-fan-in-the-heart-an-overview/?
where the fuck have his morals gone? surely he’s big enough to take a stand against them? the glazers would be fucked if they even contemplating sacking the greatest manager our club has ever had.
I’m disgusted by his stance on all this and it sickens me to the depths of my stomach to see the man whom we all adore as a manager behave like a cunt who seemingly dismisses us fans.
And if the club does finally go tits up then Fergies legacy as the greatest manager will be overshadowed by his involvement with the glazer leeches!!!
Absolutely disgusting. How can anyone question Him? That kind of letter should not even get close to the boss, he has always always, utmostly respected the fans. Tear it up now
Harry Redknapp on SKY:
“Malcolm Glazer is a top, top lad. I tried to sign him when I was at Spurs, you know.”
@pint glass great stuff mate go rooney love it.
roasty_mufc
Thats OTT dont you think mate…calling SIr Alex names….?
Cedars
I can understand pal….I know you get bored with these kind of topics and much rather prefer the football. I can assure you mate, we all do…I wish it could all be just about the football. But apparently we are no longer a football club but a business/franchise/mortgaged car/microprocessor….
The season will be along in just a couple of weeks mate and hopefully we’ll have a lot more football to talk about…
@ roasty but that article is pretty much annoying. How can someone open his mouth to claim that Sir Alex is benefitting at the expense of the health of the club? Sir Alex has NEVER held this club to ransom. He has never demanded a pay hike, Managers like Roberto Mancini and Arsene Wenger are earning more than him. I think ANY reward given to him at this point by Malcolm is deserved.
Sir Alex should be the highest paid manager in world football by a country mile but even he is aware of the fact that it would be stupid to ask for a pay hike in the current circumstances.
Sir Alex CAN be sacked. The Glazers do not think the way we all do. Do not be naive as to think that Sir Alex is unsackable considering the mad men who currently run the club. They can do ANYTHING they want to do. How many times have they thought of the fans when making any decisions? Jesus Christ a lot of people putting too much of their time into football.
But he knows that losing Sir Alex at this point would be the ultimate blow for United. It will definitely trigger a mass exodus, success on the pitch will reduce DRASTICALLY ( except some Qataris or Bill Gates decides to buy the club and we dope our way to a treble), young player development will slow down drastically. He knows that publicly taking a stance against the Glazers at this point will almost certainly get him sacked. Also Fergie loves this system cuz he has COMPLETE CONTROL over the football side of the club. The same issue that got Mourinho, Chelsea’s greatest ever manager, Sacked.
Be careful what you wish for cuz you just might get it. You don’t know the true value of what you have till it is gone forever.
I havent been on this site for a while because all the blind idiotic adoration was becoming tedious.
Thank you Scott for ACTUALLY asking some pertinent questions relating to “The Dear Leader” – ” He who can do no wrong and must never be questioned”
Ferguson and Gill have been playing the fans for idiots since the Glazer scumbags took control and it is now clear that they were part of the problem.
Ferguson has been complicit in the Glazernomics model of low rent players and cheap “everything”
Well last year he was well and truly found out in the CL and the football we played in the league may have seen us miss out on Goal difference but by Christ it was fucking abysmal to watch most of the time.
Whilst Im at it …………….. Rooney is shit, unfit and should be gotten rid of – He has been for at least three years and if you cannot see that you do not know what good footballers look like.
Valid points.
He’s a cool cat…nothing draws a response out of him
Not even Bilbao “It was a blip” 
Gotta love him.
What a FAIL those 10 questions are !
SAF will just think……
“Fuck off, ain’t reading that, I got babies to raise and boys to plant and a Tour to go on, me like the sucky-sucky”.
First, let’s get this straight. ℓ̊ don’t care whatever Cedars says, ℓ̊ have been a silent observer of this multi-racial page for sometime now, say 6years or there about and ℓ̊ have noticed that some fans have decided not to worship God or whatever they believe in again other than SAF, look ℓ̊ am not saying he is not a great man, or may be not a fantastic manager, NO far from that infact SAF will be remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time if not the greatest and rightly so.
But ℓ̊ am a MAN UNITED supporter and with all due respect ℓ̊ place the club above any individual, above GILL, GLAZER and even FERGIE. That Fergie has achieved much doesn’t mean he is not answerable to the fans, it doesn’t mean he should also alienate the fans and insult them at every opportunity. This ℓ̊ say my friends is not acceptable.
The decision to back the GLAZERs family WILL always be remembered as Fergei’s greatest sin against United fans and the disgraceful way he has always back the GLAZERS in chasing United fans who protest out of the stadium on match days will always be remembered too.
In my country we believe too much power is a double edged sword that can build and equally destroy, the fans will always be the live blood of United not some manager or CEO. The truth is we have created a big monster in Fergie and no one can tame him, he now thinks he owns UNITED and the core supporters are nothing and replaced them with DAY TRIPPERS.
Success doesn’t mean you are immune to criticism, NO it even brings more and more criticism.
As much as Fergie is accountable to his boss he is equally accountable to the fans who pay a lot of money to watch them play and also pay their wages
If he carry on like this am afraid for the future of mufc, afterall who will forget his fight against the former owners over a race horse…..
ℓ̊ think we should come out straight and say it how it is and hope for the best.
We are not fools, no business can be in so much debt and continue to be successful. The likes of Cedars will come now and brand me names but deep down they know am saying it how it is and it is cowardice that is stopping them from facing facts….
Long live MUFC …. GGMU
Simplistically speaking, is it possible ( or even legal ) to open some sort of Swiss bank account where all 1 billion of us Man Utd fans worldwide can deposit £1 each specifically to buy players? Just saying.
It’s pretty simple. Fuck the Glazers.
Has SAF fucked us-fans over,as is being implied, we’ll find out soon enough.
Read this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19061040
says United are overvalued at $3bn according to the upcoming floatation while forbes only values us at $2.2bn. But due to the stagnating market, even this forbes figure is over-valued because at most we are probably worth realistically at $1.5bn a number quoted by blokes down at goldman sachs 2 years back. That figure quoted cannot have grown to 2.2bn in such a troubled and inflated market.
The shares are unnattractive, now have no value, inflated and the club is spewing out bullshit numbers like we are worth $3bn and have 650,000,000 fans.
I call Bullshit and so do any potential investors looking at the figures.
Red Knights Valued the club at maximum £1bn in 2010, we are realistically worth around £1.3bn.
Nobody will buy us till the Glazers stop producing bullshit figures. Nobody in their right frame of mind is going to pay $330m to have no voting rights / dividends.
Dream on Glazers ! Just like the letter from Red Issue…another FAIL.
It gets me how suddenly SAF has now become a target for the Anti Glazer crew to have a pop at. The protests against the Owners hasn’t worked so lets try a different angle and target the great man himself.
What do we all want,
SAF to admit he might have been wrong and resign?
SAF to say something that might piss certain fans off more?
SAF to say nothing? Say I’m really sorry?
Its all getting stupid now, let him run the team ffs and target the Glazers directly.
The problem is targeting the Glazers directly hasn’t worked has it.
You never speak ill against the hands that feed you. I am sure the Gaffer doesn’t like the fact that the club is in debt but he will never speak out against the Glazers as long as he is in charge. Would anyone of us probably bad mouth our employer in public? Not me for sure.
United spent close to £60 mill last season, £18mill up til now and we have bids in for two players at £30 mill and £15 mill depending on what paper you read.I know the situation is not great but we are still spending big money there is nothing we can do about it ,and unless some one offers up to £2 billion they will not sell. United is there cash cow.How any one can hold Sir Alex responsible for any of this is beyond me.Pint glass of Vodka funny as fuck pal.
What happened to keeping quiet…. Rather having a pop at the fans.
Bearing in mind that he had a hand in their Rebellious take over
DEBT IS THE ROAD TO RUIN…… GILL 2004
What happened to keeping quiet…. Rather than having a pop at the concerned fans yet again
Bearing in mind that he had a hand in their Rebellious take over
DEBT IS THE ROAD TO RUIN…… GILL 2004
Ooh cedars looks like you got a secret admirer.
Naughty boy. Been doing the rounds round town have you?
What happened to keeping quiet…. Rather than having a pop at the concerned fans yet again.
Bearing in mind that he had a hand in their Rebellious take over.
DEBT IS THE ROAD TO RUIN…… GILL 2004
Legitimate questions, but seriously, who are these chaps kidding, they have a better chance of getting Santa Claus to read their letters than SAF.
If we take a step back and read the interview (like an outsider) that Sir Alex gave, it wouldn’t have triggered this over-reaction. Glazers have got ownership of the Club, nothing can change it now.
A lot of emotional stuff going out here. Glazers own United as a business and they would like to make money out of it. I don’t see anything wrong in it other than the fact that they bought the club with the money they don’t have.
But looking at the way the world works, we always buy things (house/car/asset) with money that we don’t have, don’t we:) (I am talking Loans here).
right on. i support the author 100%. it is time we called a spade, what it is at MAN UTD. Lets accept, we are no longer the same,. only fringe prayers can we afford now. WK.
@ Pint Glass
Had a similar situation in a Detroit bar a few years back. Ordered a double jack and coke with lots of ice. Waitress came back with a pint glass, loaded with ice, topped up with Jack and a can of coke. Her explanation? “I usually fill the glass half way with liquor than pour in the mix, you asked for a double, so, I doubled it.” God bless her soul. I needed a wheel chair to leave that joint and I’m still awaiting a that highly sought after liver transplant
@utd4life
You got the full clue right…
SAF can’t say something negative to glazers because of his position in the club
We SAF slip, then the club slip together…
GGMU
I dont know these fans who wrote the letter are, but they are clearly letting their emotions get the better of their judgement.
ididnotzeeit@
haha funny as hell. “God bless her soul”. love it
Awaiting a liver transplant myself.
Funny thing is, I looked over my documents the other day and realized that myself is listed as a liver donor. Whoever gets that thing is F’D!!
I agree, these types of letter should be directed at the owners, not the manager.
I think sir alex meant to say that the real fans would understand there is nothing we can do about our current situation.
Things seem to have died down on this Glazer thing for awhile. Now they seem to be heating up.
Could it be time once again to dust off ye ole green an’ gold Norwich Scarf???
vodkak, Apart from the glazers attending the games, did the green and gold scarfs really any effect on this fiasco ?
@ Pint Glass
Yeah mate. There was a big push on in my local town a few months back for blood donors. Lady asked me to donate, I said I couldn’t for health reasons, she said “what’s ailing you?” I said “Me? Nothing I suppose, but heaven help the poor bloke who has to drive home after getting a transfusion!!”
I wanted to ask one question of all the people who think Sir Alex’s comments were questioning the fans at all. He said and I quote
“BUT I THINK THE MAJORITY OF REAL FANS WILL LOOK AT IT REALISTICALLY AND SAY IT IS NOT AFFECTING THE TEAM”
Nothing about real fans not being concerned or whatever, but whether it is affecting the team at all. Notice he said TEAM and not the financial side of things.
The only reason we might not like the Glazers is that they are affecting the football side of things, but do we really know that they are? I mean that is an assumption right?
The only person who knows what the plan is and if that is based on the finances available is Sir Alex and if he says he is fine, then I am ok with that, why because he has consistently shown everyone in the football world that he knows more about football than anyone else.
Yes they are taking money from the club, but they are also increasing the financial value of the club, whether a 2 billion valuation is sustainable or not, they are not devaluing the club at least, so business wise they are also probably sound.
Make no mistake, even I feel we are light in the MF area, if Sir Alex has some other plans, so be it. Until someone can show me in real terms that the Glazers are affecting the football side of things, I am not going to take anyone’s issues with them with anything less than a pinch of salt.
I can answer some or atleast the way I would answer them if I was Sir Alex (please note these are not the views of Sir Alex)
1. You suggested that ‘the majority of real fans will look at it [Glazer ownership] and see that it’s not affecting the team’. Can you clarify what constitutes a real fan?
Real Fans are those that follow the team no matter who the owners are and not not support the club because of them. It shouldnt matter to the real fan who the owners are unless they do irreprable damage to the club (as seen at Leeds and Rangers). The Glazers are doing a good job and dont interfer with the football sides of things, there is money to spend.
2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans?
If club loyalty is so easily disguarded because of who owns the club then quite probably they aren’t real fans.
3. Have you personally met with any of the dissenters to determine how deep their commitment and affection for United may be?
Im sure by the passion that they have led their campaign that they believe in what they say, it doesnt mean they are right.
4. What are your thoughts on an atmosphere which gets markedly worse each season as more and more local, traditional fans are marginalised and alienated from the club?
I dont see the atmosphere as getting markedly worse and it has lightened from the first year of MUST and the green and Gold campaign. With ManUtd.com endless ammounts of Twitter accounts I would say the fan is closer than ever before with the club.
5. You are also quoted in the interview as claiming ‘I’m absolutely comfortable with the Glazers situation. They’ve been great’. You are clearly aware of the opposition from the United fan base – does that not make you uncomfortable in any way?
No, I run Manchester United as their manager and its done with me in charge not by proxy rule. If I had listened to the fans then we would have signed Damien Duff, Charlie Adams, Stephen Ireland, ha ha ha.
6. What, in your view, would constitute poor owners?
Poor owners probably wouldnt have been accepted by the board in the first place. All I know is the Glazers are very good owners and have never been a problem.
7. You have repeatedly claimed to have been backed financially whenever you have requested transfer funds. Is this your only consideration when determining what represents great ownership?
No, but i dont think you’d understand as you are unaware of the day to day runnings of the biggest football club in history.
8. You continued the interview by saying that, ‘the salaries, agent fees – is just getting ridiculous now’. Whilst we agree in tone, it does represent a sea change in attitude from pre Glazer transfers. Agent fees in both the Ferdinand and Rooney transfers were criticised at the time for being excessive, so why does the club now refuse to meet market conditions for the top players?
We have a set maximum limit to every transfer deal we make. This includes agent fees, wages, transfer fees themselves and signing bonuses. It is one thing paying high agents fees when dealing with players such as Rooney and Ferdinand as they ar eplayers that make an immediate impact and are star players for years to come. When it comes to very good to middle of the road players for want of a name to call non-superstars we have found that the agent fees are out of proportion to the rest of the deal. Rooney is a marque player that sell shirts and newspapers which in turn spreads the product that is Manchester United whereas a player such as Manchester Citys Silva is just a very very good player. Im sure if another Rooney comes along we will do our upmost to sign him.
9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?
Im not going to discuss individual transfers whilst a player is still in his developmental phase. You understood at the beginning I protected Giggs from the media spot light so you must understand that answering a question about a young player puts him unneccesarily in the media spot light. Im sure Bebe will prove alot of doubters wrong.
10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’?
A considerable larger ammount of money leaves in players wages per day even during the summer when football isn’t being played. Is that good value for money? Where did you get the figure of £250k leaving the club each day, thats rediculous.
That is how Id feel Sir Alex would answer and to be honest Im fine with it. of course the haters are gunna hate and made their minds up along time ago. If I was manager I would say
I havent got time to answer your questions as by your own words I should be deeply involved with player transfers, not talking to every person who wants my attention. This team is not run by proxy and unfortunately some fans have got me confused with someone who gives a rats arse about their opinions. Whilst the success continues, the club moves forward in the right direction I will be manager of Manchester United and not someone who answers to people who enjoy my work.
cedars …you have another fan on here …How the fuck did SAF have a hand in the Glazer takeover….
and please sort your ‘I’s out triple post Lexxy
@Mash: not a damn thing, really. Looked kinda cool on TV though.
@ididnotzeeit: Haha. You’re killin it!
Lexxy Red
Like a certain Gary Neville said….”Been taking the courage pills have we lexxy?”
Take a hike mate…I’ll tell you what you come on here like some big guy Sir Alex this, Sir alex that..show some fucking respect mate…
And I’ll tell you one more thing…the way you laid into Cedars suddenly without him even saying anything to you on this thread makes me think you’re one of the guys he’s laid into in the past and whos come back here after a few courage pills to have a pop at him.
James
Evening my chest-thumping ROM mate…. I think its just some of the stupid lads who’re getting their knickers in a twist going after Sir Alex…nobody in their right mind would go after him after what he’s done to get us here after the 1970′s and 80′s.
and Goat…. well said
On a side note I’m watching Nicky Butt from Gorton to Greatness. Unreal, what would I give to have a young Nicky Butt back in the team
Well U̶̲̥̅̊ lots seem to have forgotten his fight with the former owners…. Or simply on pills like me…… Mtchewwww
Always knew ℓ̊ will be called names…. Was prepared for it
No One’s called you names….yet!
You’ve just been told to take a hike!
ℓ̊ have spoken my mind over the current issues at our club. Am not going to get into war of word with anyone…. Good night REDS
I think it’s obvious that The Glazers will sell shares in United and with the money raised they will pocket half of it and use the other half to pay down debt. They will keep doing this until all the debt is repaid whislt still remaning in control of United due to the share set up.
United is a money making machine and with no debt and pure profits coming in to the club I am guessing they will keep the majority of the money and invest as least money possible in to United to keep United successful. They will then just keep taking money out of the club and lining their own pockets which like it or not they have a right to do as they own United.
I can’t see The Glazers ever selling United at that point unless they get a ridiculous offer they can’t refuse because once that debt is paid off United are going to be bringign in so much money they would be stupid to sell.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/31/glazers-manchester-united-takeovers?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
The Glazer family has moved to block any future hostile takeover of Manchester United by quietly altering the club’s constitution, in a move that will further enrage the club’s fans.
Haven’ t read it yet
Red Devil
Hi mate. Its just seams they are now going after SAF because the Glazers will not budge.
They even mention the atmosphere at Old Trafford. Its got nothing to do with these fans boycotting the games,the fact is that when we get 2-3000 reds away all singing standing and bouncing the atmosphere is electric. You try bouncing and standing for 90 mins at Old Trafford and the Stewards are down on you like a ton of bricks.
Lexxy please read.
@xol
Shame The PLC didn’t think of that.
They are good for the club says LORD FERGIE….. Night
Great points as always from Red Issue.
Can’t wait for the first issue of the season again, the only mag i actually read on paper still with all the online stuff around these days.
They always hit the nail on the head, & Mr Spleen is an utter legend for my two penneth….
LEXXY…FUCK OFF CUNT
I am guessing that Fergie has been brought at the forefront in the last 24 hours due to the suspicion that he is among the selected employees that will get a cut from the IPO. I hope it isn’t true. Some have said that they don’t mind because it’s a reward for everything he’s contributed to the club. Well I’d think that naming the biggest stand at Old Trafford after him is rewarding enough…
AlphaRS – No hostile takeover then. Only one thing for it – friendly takeover!
From todays Guardian, which I’ve no doubt a few on here will denounce as another no mark journo
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/31/the-fiver-manchester-united-glazers
FOFYFC
I really hope Fergue doesn’t read that letter. The questions are pointless. What will be gained from Fergue defining what he thinks is a poor owner?
Has anyone considered the Fergie has actually thrown down the gauntlet publicly to the Glazers? When he comes out and backs them, says that they always give him the funds and then talks up his interest in transfer targets he is testing them right at the time that investors will be looking for signs of any cracks. If they don’t back him they risk the IPO. Fergie doesn’t say anything for nothing. If he speaks out against the Glazers he is history.
Here’s a question – which football manager has ever overthrown the owners?
@xol:
Great idea.
xol: “Um, excuse me, Mr Glazer?”
Glazer: “Yes”
xol: “If I could intrude, me and a shit load of Reds would like to politely request possession of the club, sir”
Glazer: “Who is this?”
xol: “FUCK OFF CUNT! We want our club!! We came for the club!!!”
(Glazer hangs up)
xol: ahh shit. I knew that wouldn’t work.
Ouch! You failed with Glazers & now you’re targetting Sir Alex. Shame on you cunt…
It’s easy to talking big on internet. Sad loser warrior keyboards.
FOMYFC
Vodka – haha good point. It’d be better to send a more polite poster. Longer term strategy could be to marry in to the family.
james21
But instead my friend you dont agree to the rules of sitting during the match and your away allocation keeps getting cut. When will you ever learn.
TonyBee
Thanks for your kind words. It did turn out kind of long even though most was copy and paste. The point to it was if a complete dick face like me can write prees friendly replys to such lame questioning then why give this Red Issue the time of day. What is it a handfull of middle aged gents with the brain processing power of a 7 year old gets listened to and how is this even an issue to discuss. Its either I am a bloody genius and stand head and tails above the average or the average may need downgrading to “Pig Shite”.
Why is it that as soon as the gutter press get shown up for being lying twat bags who make transfer shite up to sell newspapers regarding Manchester United that as soon as they hop on yet another Manchester nited story they’re to be believed.
If the Glazers want to “pocket” half the money good luck to them. They will probably spend it on some of their investments (oh Manchester Uniteds one of those) or on a new wrist watch. How many of them can you buy with 150 million, derp!#
My the venom is dripping.There tthere girls you can huff and puff and you’ll change nowt Duncan should know that by now.
But instead my friend you dont agree to the rules of sitting during the match and your away allocation keeps getting cut. When will you ever learn.
Goat ???????????? WTF. Did you actually read what I posted.
Red Knights was full of shit, MUST also stupid. If they’re serious why on earth they couldnt find one or two billioners to buy the club off the Glazers? Now they change their strategy, targetting Sir Alex as the biggest culprit. FUCK U SHAMELESS CUNT!!!
Costas:
Correct, and it is not like he has been paid like the tea lady over the years…
Hello is that Mr Glazer?
burble
ahh thanks Mr Glazer, just wanted to thank you for buying the club with our money, you’ll never hear a word of protest from us, the real fans.
Buuuurble
Oh and it’s very good of you to include SAF in the next round money raising, he does deserve it.
Buuuurble buurble.
Well got to go Mr Glazer, keep up the good work, united till I die I am.
Burble burble burble.
Oh and by the by, that letter was written on Red Issue Main and not the Red Issue Sanc, there is a difference.
Eh, silly cunts why dont u & your people find some sugardaddies to bail out the club instead of spouting rumours bollocks?
What rumours?
Hey romantics go and support FC United of Manchester. They run their club the right way eh? disrespecting fergie calling him a cunt. That’s like calling your grandpa a cunt. Kindly do one. All of you anti fergie mugs. Oh I see the new guardian article today should give you more bile to spit at Fergie.
Sir Alex is another man not allowed an opinion, the same way Ben Foster became a public enemy for daring to say the anti-Glazer movement wasn’t helpful to the team. I’m not surprised though.. if you don’t like what somebody says, attack them personally, just as they did here by bringing up the horse dispute from almost a decade ago. Since then, Fergie has showered United in trophies but that doesn’t matter to these guys anymore. They have it in their heads that if the Glazers didn’t come along we’d have spent £500 million more on players. They don’t seem to understand that it was going to be the Glazers or somebody else.. and it wasn’t going to be a sugar daddy, United would have been too much to spend to buy (compared to City or Chelsea) for a sugar daddy billionaire.
But let me try to give some answers to this shit….
1 – A real fan is somebody who supports the team and doesn’t make it impossible for the manager to have dissenting views. Remember, Sir Alex has been quote mined, accused as a liar and has had pictures attributed to him in a suggestive way (like when he signed the green and cold scarf). If that happened to you, you’d find it hard to see these people as your fans.
2 – So?, millions of fans have been gained since 2004. Those who left the fanbase showed that they care more about finance than performance. Let them have fun with FC United all the way down there.
3 – Why would he? He doesn’t feel that there’s a problem. If he met with any United dissenters, then he’s legitimizing their accusations against him, and the event would be misused by those fans as evidence of this and that.
4 – Are you suggesting the people who aren’t local aren’t real fans? United is not the only place with a bad atmosphere. Then again, we could always be Stoke and have fuck all to sing about.
5 – Is he aware? No the thousands of Green & Gold scarves and the media hayday of the impending United implosion went completely over his head. Who the fuck wrote these questions?
6 – Fergie has been completely clear on this. Owners who dictate the team selection, tactics and so forth. He made it clear that if such owners ever came to United he would quit. He has defended almost every sacked manager the past few years.
7 – If you want to make an accusation, don’t form it as a question. Fergie was responding to the accusations that he was being starved of funds by the Glazers. Again, who wrote these questions?
8 – When did Fergie say he was happy to pay the fees for Rooney and Rio? You are also forgetting that both Rooney and Rio were bought quite a few years ago. Their price tag would have been significantly higher if they were that age, and that promising, in 2012, and United tried to buy them.
9 – More Bebe attacks from his own supporters (and don’t pretend like its not, if he had Hernandez’ impact his first season, this question never would have come up). Fergie took a chance on Bebe on the advice of people he respected in football. If it turns out to be a waste of money, then that sucks, but he wasn’t £50 million like Torres, or £35 million like Andy Carrol. These are the players we should have been competing for? Perhaps you guys should let the talent picking be done by Alex Ferguson and stop thinking Football Manger is accurate?
10 – Again, out of context. Fergie talks about value when the issue of buying players and paying their wages arises. Outside of that, the club finances are down to the Glazers, this is not his job. But if you think another wealthy group of owners would have left United’s finances untouched, or that a publicly traded United wouldn’t have its finances soaked up in dividends and other costs, as well as the extra tax United would be paying if it weren’t in debt, then I suggest that you are blinded to the reality that United is a massive cash cow, and that there will always be a power struggle over it. There will NEVER be owners of United who will not seek to profit from it. Even the fantasy of a fan-owned club doesn’t cut it. When you are dealing with revenue the size of United’s, that is going to be a tapped resource by any owners. Name me ONE billionaire who would buy United (which means paying a nine-figure sum to buy it, and then having to deal with hundreds of millions more in debt) and not expect to get back their entire investment and more?
Go ahead.. I’ll wait.
Look Fergie has said it repeatedly, fans have the right to protest, but he doesn’t agree with them. He’s being held up as a liar by the movement who accuse him of covering for the Glazers when he doesn’t, allegedly, get any money for new players. He can’t speak on the Glazer situation without some provocative reaction from a section of fans, blogs and so forth. If when every transfer window comes around fans were doing nothing but complaining that we didn’t buy big players… while at the meantime singing “what a waste of money” at HALF the big money signings in the league…. you’d be pretty pissed off too.
“Good morning
I write further to previous correspondence about the Government’s poor record on reforming football governance.
As you know, I wrote to the Sports Minister requesting his comments on what action the Government were prepared to take to force the Football Authority to accept supporters’ concerns, and take action on reform of the Football Association itself, toughen up the financial regulation of clubs, implement an independent licensing system and allow fans to have greater involvement in the ownership and running of clubs.
The Minister’s reply is not at all helpful. It does not even acknowledge, let alone address, the concerns raised. I can assure you therefore that I will continue to press the Government on this and will keep you informed of further developments.
Should you have any comments on this, or if I could be of assistance with any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
Kate Green, MP”
———————–
That was June 14th. Can’t remember when I originally wrote to my MP, it could be a year ago now.
If you think the best approach is to go through Gov channels – fair play, but it’s a s l o w process. Yet the Glazers have altered the constitution to deter hostile bids – in a flash. hmmm.
@ World class does a football stand pay the bills at home for Sir Alex? those are awesome perks but MONEY makes the world go round. It’s why we are all here having a go at each other. He needs to be paid more.
So if Fergie does take a few mill out of United in this IPO, is everyone ok with it?
I have followed ROM for a long time though I rarely post a comment.
The best post I have seen in the past 5 years goes to ….
goatinaunitedshirt @20:38
Goat
By your last post to James can I ask have you ever seen united away?
I see what you mean AnomanderRake
9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?
Im not going to discuss individual transfers whilst a player is still in his developmental phase. You understood at the beginning I protected Giggs from the media spot light so you must understand that answering a question about a young player puts him unneccesarily in the media spot light. Im sure Bebe will prove alot of doubters wrong.
Fucking pissing my sides here.
Giggs
I’m baffled. I don’t think he read my post properly. I was only saying or pointing out that the stewards have a big say in the atmosphere at Old Trafford. Utd fans away are brilliant this is why the singing section would have been brilliant, although I’m sure the section would have far more dicks in high vis ruining the party.
@mattbw7
He wouldn’t be taking a penny though. He would be given shares in a move thats NORMAL for companies when they float. You won’t find many that don’t give employees some shares when they float as a ‘perk’. its not something they asked for but why exactly should anyone turn them down. Its not taking a penny out of the company its taking money from the shareholder who is giving the shares out (as our sole shareholders this is the Glazers)
@World Class
Definitely not. Might not be the highest paid manager in the EPL, but I am sure he makes ends meet each month.
James
Ignorance mate its easy to sit in your chair and have an opinion.
Pointless whining, from exactly those supporters SAF was referring to in his recent interview.
When is the penny going to drop? They are not the owners. They are not the board. They are not the directors. They are not the manager. They do not run the club. They have no say in the running of the club.
They are the same people who bitched and moaned during the Edwards era. The same people who grumbled about ‘MUFC plc’. And still, despite unrivalled success bleat on and on about the Glazers.
We’ve had the ineffectual protests and the comedy scarves. We’ve managed to make a few kids and pensioners crap themselves with a firework or two. The red knights came – then went with their tails between their legs. Yeah, nice work guys.
So what’s left for the eternal malcontents but to turn their bile to the 70 year old architect of our most successful period at the top of the game?
So carry on, because you know what? If anyone has the stomach for a fight, it’s Sir Alex.
Get back to doing what supporters do – supporting. Put the envy aside and cheer the lads, create a decent atmosphere and celebrate the wins. Leave the business of running a football club to the experts. It only takes a few rotten apples…..
Giggs
I like to give the benefit.
When I leave the ground I’m still buzzing, home or away. Always more if Utd have won but buzzing all the same. There’s nothing like singing and chanting for your team I just wish others would see that.
And what the f*** has Rock of Gibralter got to do with anything? Jeez. Like Fergie ever needed any of us to stand up for him.
Truly pathetic.
And I agree. Top post at 20:38 from Goat.
so fergie’s not supposed to get shares. what kind of fucked up logic is this?
mattbw7 : go to your office tomorrow and tell your boss he’s a wanker and then come back and tell us how it goes.
fucking idiots abusing the man who made us what we are,… spoilt fans.
BTW, I just wanted to point out that the ONLY reason that MUST et al are asking questions about whether Fergie will get anything from the United IPO is so they can use it against him. In their world, if Alex Ferguson benefits at all from the IPO, then that must mean he was simply lying about everything else in order to gain money for himself. It couldn’t have anything to do with 25 years at the club and being the greatest manager in the game, and it definitely couldn’t have anything to do with motivating him for his last few seasons at the club. These same people will miss him so badly when he’s gone, even though they seek to destroy his name.
BTW, did anyone read about how the GM marketing executive was forced out after the United deal? Why you ask? Because the United shirt deal could be worth up to $600 million to the club, with significantly more being paid to United per season than was paid by AON. United managed to get such a lucrative deal with GM that they forced out the man responsible for it. But the deal is done, the paperwork is signed and GM will have to give United a nice chunk of their advertising cash.
pint – awesome posts mate.
manu iz da bessst goo roooneyyy
epic.
“9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value”
Whats a stupid question. Its debatable if that much has been paid because we aren’t supposed to have paid £7mill upfront so Mendes wouldn’t have been paid it all. And even if we did pay £7mill upfront its not unusual, it was his release fee and as is common abroad the players economic rights weren’t owned fully by the club but part was owned by a 3rd party such as another company or an agent. In this case 35% of Bebe was owned by Mendes
Why aren’t the complaining about the the Tevez loan where we paid Kia J 10million, a full 100% of the total fee or why arent they complaining about the bid for Lucas where the player himself will in a few hours receive 20% of the fee (and I believe his agent 10%) as the economic rights are split multiple ways.
Its not like they are paying agents fees of these values, its the fair transfer right as they allow 3rd party ownership in these other countries
@ james21 – Spot on about the stewards but having gone myself and being scattered around the ground the past few years. The atmosphere and people singing in East Stand Tier 2 and Fergie Stand Tier 3 (where I usually end up for games) is piss poor for most games mate and has got worse and worse since 2005/06.
I totally agree standing up and bouncing around creates a better atmosphere but your lungs and voice don’t stop working when you sit down.
Chelski 2011 when Hernandez scored in the first minute is a prime example of that. We were all stood up for the first 36 minutes and the atmosphere simply died once the stewards came in, but it weren’t just that when the people sat down most of them stopped being heard simultaneously.
Spoken to loads of supporters and its a sad state of affairs when there’s more of a sing song going on in the Blaize then inside the ground.
One way the glazers can try and repair relations with fans is by giving us the singing section we so desperately want and need. In fairness to them they have to consult with the police and council which is a ball ache in itself, but they could push it through if they really wanted to and have it ready for 2013/14.
we are a football club. we need to burn cash to make profits. we are over-valued at 3bn.
we have a loan of 550 mil $(approx). the shares have no voting rights. the shares will get us no dividends.
i am a united fan. a big one. but bloody hell i won’t buy a single share under these stipulations. its fucking mental.
THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THIS IS TO GET ONTO EVERY JOURNO AND EVERY POLITICIAN GOING TO TRY AND GET THIS HIGHLIGHTED AND A CAMPAIGN STARTED TO GET PART FAN OWNERSHIP IN OUR CLUBS.
or some kind of rules to stop clubs being exploited. Here’s how you can write to your MP in 2 minutes flat. http://www.writetothem.com/
It has to start somewhere. Boycotts hurt the club, we don’t need that, we need UNITY and a big FUCK YOU TO THE GLAZERS.
NRD
Its not the same though on a cold winters night, sat there stuck to your seat although I’ll sing standing or sitting. Hoping Giggsy will lead the chorus this season although I can’t make Fulham and I’m gutted.
AHH here’s eric keane, you found those articles yet? Now on to your latest drivel, were have I said Ferguson should slag his employers off? There is a huge difference in saying nothing and keeping some respect or doing what he’s done, you say whats wrong with him getting shares, well at this juncture its only because the glazers changed the IPO terms from using all of the proceeds to pay down debt to ob were they”ve all got their snouts in the trough, but Hey if you’re ok with that…….
The suarez kkk mask issue was pure genius. Love red issue. The life of smiley
Reds with Issues.
Come on. It’s got a great ring to it and it’s apt. I can hear the cries now on Sir Matt Busby way. “reds with issues, only £2″ .. “all money goes to persecuting pensioners” ..
PaulH are you really asking what has the rock of gibraltar got do with anything? Ffs, it was the catalyst that set cubic expression on a course to sell.
@james21 – Totally agree sat down in December minus temperatures up in the heavens (Tier 3) where I swear theres less oxygen, its hard to get motivated. We know the reasons we have to sit down and just have to accept them, you stand you get the neon Gestapo on you. If I get tickets for Wigan I might actually take video footage of the amount of people who just sit there and stay quiet.
I’m all for the singing section but I have a feeling it’ll turn bad quickly simply because just like the Stretford End a lot of corporate cardboard cut out cunts treat watching United like a fashion accessory and by sitting in the Stretty it adds to their ego just so they can say,
“Oh I was in the Stretty.”
The same thing will end up happening in the singing section.
A plea to fans who don’t go to Old Trafford often. If you’re not going to sing go sit in South Stand, the Quadrants or the Fergie Stand Tiers 1 & 2.
Leave East Stand Tier 2 and Stretford End for people that want to make noise.
People will never get over the bebe transfer. Absolutely no proof of the club paying 7million for a player from the portuguese third division. You have NO proof.
Mattbw I am well aware of the episode, but my point is that it didn’t need any of us to stand up for him. He doesnt owe anyone for it. It’s irrelevant, just like the letter from the reds with issues.
And don’t be surprised if you’re not asked to become their honorary president or something. Some of your recently expressed ‘love’ for the manager (what was it you called him again, a grasping…?) is exactly where this is headed.
Fergie will bite back at the malcontents and it will escalate. I really hope I’m wrong, but I sense a civil war.
First chant next home from…”every single one of us, loves Alex Ferguson….” dare you not t join me.
People can’t differentiate between what posters opinions are and assume you are in one camp or another.
- you can love Fergie but be dissapointed with his stance on Glazers and anti Glazer fans.
- You can support United with every fibre yet be concerned with the money either leaving or being generated for the Glazers.
- You don’t have to have the answers to believe that these pure business men have no right being in charge of Manchester United football club.
- you don’t have to have an economics degree to have an opinion on a leveraged buy out.
- let it be said to any financial expert on this blog please appreciate this is first and foremost a football club.
I’m just going to keep my thoughts on our owners to a minimum.
Paul H – ironically every fan has a say on where the club goes financially. The club is nothing without the fans, many say without fergie where would united be? where would the club be without its fans, and especially he season ticket holders. They could easily cancel their season tickets, and if there was huge demand in season tickets, the club would go the extra mile to some how expand OT. They may not have the say how the club is run on and off the pitch, but thet can effect the club’s profits. It is like V for Vendetta, imagine a country where the PPL actually rose together as one, and stood up to the way a country treats its PPL.
There is the saying, the fans are the soul of the club, they are the club. OT is just bricks and cement, it can always be rebuilt, PPL running the club are just PPL in suits, players write the history of the club. But the fans are the club, and everyone should always remember that. Fans make and break a football club, if they truly did have enough, all of them
so like I said
the fans are the club
OT is bricks and cement, you can always rebuild
the board are just PPL in suits, they come and go
the players write the history of the club
but a football club, are the fans, they are the foundations of how a football club is built. And without the loyal season ticket holders, like a stomach bug, if you do not feed the bug, it will die. The glazers are basically relying on the fans, and that is the biggest irony of the entire glazer regime. funny old world, aint it
If the EPL had the guts to ban football clubs being owned by foreigners, then the Glazers would only be allowed to sell UTD to English-born people or English organisations. The present suggested value of the club (£2 billion) would fall to at least half – making it possible to be sold to local people.
The ball’s in the EPL’s court, but I’m not expecting them to act responsibly.
It’s not one way street and as much as Fergie has made the club, the club has made him too. Look at a team like Chelsea and how they’ve sacked managers after one bad season or because Terry wasn’t fond of them. Fergie was given full support by the club when things weren’t going his way or when he had a bust up with one of our stars.
Im just a bit taken aback by how a few people on here, although unqualified to do so, are attempting to give Sir Alex advice as to how to do his job (which includes speaking to the press). How people are already slaughtering him for receiving a bonus he has yet to receive. How they purport to know exactly what goes on behind the scenes and banding around accusations based on this insider knowledge.
I really don’t want to but I guess I have to.
Whatever the belief – football has moved on – football is as much as a business/a global brand as the next business/global brand.
Football has moved on but we as fans have not – our passions run deep – etched within our very souls and that will never change, throughout whatever time their is and however for us Manchester United are.
The thing most important is that United are here and will be and hopefully long after we have all walked out of the room and closed the lights out – United will be as strong as ever.
The thing is that the Glazer’s have signed up to United the very club where our heart and soul lies. They don’t need to put their hearts and souls into the club – they are here for the money and therefore so be it.
What has happened and is happening is something that we cannot control – none of us – unless any one of is a billionaire all we got is a passion for this club not to be fucked around with.
Everything else is out of reach, never to change by whatever means necessary – because that is the nature of the beast – millionaires and billionaires is a game only they play, the game we play is all based on emotional insight – something when I allude to a lot of you then don’t have the means to understand what I’m saying – yet here most of us are emotional but in an angry sense – amazing that – not that I’m having a pop or anything just showing it how it is.
The insight I’m giving you is one of heart and courage one that exists around those that breathe United for the sake of breathing United, it isn’t about the pounds Ladies and Gentlemen it’s about the badge on the shirt that we have to protect, the rest is what shall I say, fate isn’t it?
We cannot afford to sometimes speak when we know nothing of anything of the sort – it is something I’m learning everyday with the eye – and as I now become a fully fledged screen writer I learn it more so. Those that play this million billion game play it with those alike – those that play this game of raw passion admittedly play it amongst each and other because no one else knows how to play it.
But here is the lesson if anyone wants to pick it.
We are stronger together than the sum of our individual parts but at times refuse to see this when we have conflict that we cannot control divide us.
It always comes to this – one spark that lights a fire that no one has an answer to cool out.
We just have to learn better to control this situation because at the end we all know however this goes down that the Glazer’s are still in town and are not going anywhere.
So the question remains – are they going to bring this club down or get us out of this mess they created?
And no matter how hard it is to fathom the shit that they have created, we are nowhere near the end where everyone predicted in 2005.
It’s only a matter of time which though hurts unfortunately has to be bided by. Without that we have nothing else going for us. We are just believers in the shirt, nothing less or nothing more.
It’s called defiance and we do it every year with or without the Glazer’s
19
Regarding point #9:
Let’s not bring Bebe into this.
James 21
Sorry no I read it in my head wrong. Im sorry.
Giggs12Gerrard0
Yes and along time ago. I went a coupe of away matches v Norwich in the early mid 90′s so a while ago. Got James21 in my head all wrong. Instead of reading it in a nice way I went all ADHD
Costas – I do not think they would have the spine to sack fergie under the current regime, other era’s in the 80′s different ball park. But like we have discussed, where does the club go when fergie retires? because I am deeply concerned, we may see the club do what they have done in the transfer market, look for cheap alternatives. They should be going the extra mile to pay this debt off, in preparation for fergie’s detonator going off. Because when it goes off, I do not think anyone at the club fully realize the cost of finding a new manager
FITB, very well put and I wholeheartedly agree with you on the ‘soul’ point. Fans overstep the mark though, when they start to see themselves as rightful ‘owners’ of the club. We are not. And apart from having the odd share or two when we were a listed company, never will we truly own the club and frankly can you imagine the balls up it would be if we had ‘emotional’ owners? Look at the guy who recently ran Derby or was it Forest? Anyway you get the point.
A club run for profit is not a bad thing. It’s profits are maximised by on the field success. Total WIN WIN.
I’m not arsed what the owners pay themselves, or whether our manager gets a decent incentive through the IPO. But I tell you what, it can make my weekend if we play well and win.
…….and while we debate about unscrupulous agents,immoral owners,eye watering debts,funereal atmosphere oh and a thoroughbred horse we will still hear those same lines…….no value in the market and i’m happy with the squad.where do i naively think my £700 annual investment in the club i love goes…..?
Goat
If you were in the united end in the 90′s I’m sure you wasnt sat down
Pissing myself at all the dross written today the only thing that has pissed Samuel off is the unfounded Bebe transfer haha quality
The day in which football would be the club’s main focus is nowhere near.
Pissing off to bed and will leave by saying in Fergie I trust. It will be a sad day when he does leave.
AnomanderRake
Glad to have cheered you up and made you post. Dont be a stranger you have impecable taste, lol.
Hahahaha!! Quality!
Giggs12 – lol, i just don’t see how bebe’s cheap transfer to the club has any relevance to the long term state of united. It’s tedious and brought up all the time.
Samuel
I know you do mate thats why I pissed myself laughing.
Mike just text me laughing as well, we will just keep that in the bank if we are on the wind up
Sam
Ha Ha.
Goat
That’s why I choose to give Benefit of the doubt 1st. I thought you’d read it wrong.
Night Reds
UTD UTD UTD
We need young players to replace Scholes, Giggs and under performing Rooney….
Samuel
If we sell Bebe, the fee alone will wipe out the debt!!! And there we have the link!
A Manchester United with Sir Alex is better than one without in my most humble of opinions!
I don’t know why we bother. Glazers aren’t shifting off anytime soon. season is close to starting, can’t afford to divert focus from it.
How is concerns I have for a club I love is being dramatic ? Tell me its not a concern when we used to, I quote, “paying over the odds” and now not even gonna consider paying for whoever priced at more 20 mil.
James / Mike
The good thing is none of this bollox is spouted on match day. At that point its just all about K stand and supporting the boys.
Night all
So keep the red flag flying high because Man United will never die……….
@FITB
I was mostly referring to the PLC days when Fergie didn’t have as much faith in the board he has today. Like you said, the Glazers wouldn’t fire Fergie. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I used to think that the Glazers were looking to clear the debt by Fergie’s retirement, but it they are in it for the long haul as it seems. So who do they bring in that will be able to follow his path? They will want to recruit someone that’s certain to keep us competitive, hence with as much revenue as possible. And that would be Mourinho.
While I’m deeply disgusted with the Glazers plans going on, what is this letter, or excuse me, this ATTACK on Ferguson going to achieve?
You really think he’s going to respond to this? Or that he’s even going to be ABLE to respond to this without creating a media shit storm?
When I saw the title of the post I was a little pleased that maybe Red Issue would write a respectful letter to Sir Alex, maybe try to ask some general questions, about where he sees the club going, what long term plans he has, and even the fact that our financial muscle in the market is going. In short, questions that might have a fucking chance in hell of even being answered. THAT would at least be productive. But that’s not what Red Issue decided to do is it? No, rather than trying to achieve something out of this letter, they literally placed a PR grenade right up Fergies ass. He’s damned if he even tries to respond to this, (HE obviously WON’T) and since he won’t all the emotional pissheads here will start attacking him further.
I’d support this if it were even slightly productive. Now I just want the football season to begin again so at least we hage some distraction from the sort of poison that’s going on in these forums
Mourinho ? God I hope not. The man’s philosophy has no place for youth, and he spends shit loads of money to get the success he has at his previous clubs.
Plus the man has a massive ego, and thinks that he is bigger than the club, which will not go well at united.
Costas – no chance of the Glazers going after Mourinho imo. We would never afford his wages, plus he’d want the necessary funding to buy the best players, and we know they can’t give him that. No, what the Glazers want when Fergie retires is a good old fashioned “yes man” who is used to working on a limited budget and won’t kick up a fuss about it. Enter David Moyes.
Giggs12Gerrard0
I wouldnt sit down anyway and no there werent seats. Good old days.
When Im at the pub watching I dont sit down nor when Im at home pacing around like a twat.
I also read comments regularly on ROM, but stopped posting ages ago because of some of the crass stupidity of some posters. So: just to say the GoatinaUnited shirt’s post at 20.38 is one of the most reasoned and rational posts I’ve read in a long, long time. It echoes everything I’ve been thinking over the past few days. Get some respect, plonkers. Thanks, the boy Goat!
@Fred
That’s where I am confused. Because while the type of manager you mentioned would suit the Glazers a lot more, what if under him United stop being competitive? It will be a major setback in terms of sponsors too. So it wouldn’t surprise me if they went all out on Mourinho.
Spot on, as I said before as others today Love the name, fucking thing of it is, that was my choice of dink for a 5 year stretch, 80% Vodka, and for a change 20%. Gin
Pint Glass of Vodka says:
Re: Glazers
Most sane fans can look at the amount money United pays in transfer fees and be content (I know I am). The total amount.
Now, some of you may have reservations as to -where- we have spent this money (no CM, ect). But you can add up the fees that have been spent in the last 2 summers, and you should be reasonably satisfied. Big money on Young, Jones, De Gea, Kagawa. Moderate money on Powell. No stupid Ronaldo-80M type signings. But still, a large amount of money.
No. Most sane fans have a problem with all the OTHER bullshit that the Glazers impose on United.
Just realized I’m talking in circles. Great post.
The thing is Pint that is life, a circle. The go Rooney thing was born 7 years ago to fuck with the Imperialistic, superiority complex Gunner fans on Fox Soccer bashing SAF and MUFC all the time. Here as explained 1/2 dozen times, just a GO MUFC!!!!!!! And a go hate some. Smart guys like Alex who can find past post go get them, I foretold there demise, saw SAF rise. He as every where I’m a devise person, loved by some, hated by others. Misunderstood in type, in person that very seldom happen. Ask some they believe I have sight of the fractal 4th dimension. Any who have played a sport with me will attest to this, I get the believe, have lived it in sport , business, and the stage. Have a haha, some know this to be true. I will be plastic to some for ever. Cool by me, I get that. I am not a band wagon jumper, Go Cubs till I die, as well MUFC, from the guy Sir Giles wore of in the 30′s who saved the club from what here many fear. Doing a Leeds. Glazzers at worse sell for 1.5 bill and make 500 mill, not bad for a 8 year turn. Then the marketing Juggernaut will roll on. Fear shakes a man, wear dose fear live. In ignorance and a lack of being prepaid. Wear does our fear live? Find it and like BATMAN FACE IT!
GO ROONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On topic nice questions, wrong man. He who can question him in a distrustful way? Question your motivations, if born in fear. Don’t ask. If born from an intellectualism pursuit go for it!!
Costas – I was only joking about Moyes. The next United manager will be Ole Gunnar Solskjaer imho.
Should have checked for spelling opps!
If you a prepared, then success can follow.
Wow been off weed for 6 of 8 days just got high for the 1st time in a while. Nice feel the pain wash away, and fears settled by the posts i have read, From Sir Giles and Dr. Dread and so many more all well said.
Liked the intelligent debate by so many. Still about 50 more posts to read. Nice stuff Guys. And a sincere thanks to all the contributors.
Hmm, strange, my last post did not go through, must have been a spam filter caught it for some reason, but ye, on signings, here’s some of the notable arrivals under the Glazer ownership…
David De Gea, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra, Fabio da Silva, Rafael da Silva, Antontio Valencia, Luis Nani, Ashley Young, Anderson, Michael Carrick, Ji Sung Park, Edwin van der Sar, Owen Hargraves, Dimitar Berbatov, Shinji Kagawa, Javier Hernandez.
Fergie has made successful signings under the Glazer ownership, many of them, but because he doesn’t aim for headline huge money signings he gets criticized by a section of fans who ironically sing “what a waste of money” at a LOT of the higher priced signings in the league over the last few years.
I’m sorry but 4 EPL trophies in 6 years speaks for itself, especially considering the spending of Chelsea throughout the decade and now City also. In 2010, we lost it by a POINT. In 2012, by goal difference. That is enormous success and its based so heavily on players bought after the Glazer takeover. That doesn’t mean they are responsible for it per se, but it does show that Ferguson has not become less successful at all under the Glazers. The signings he has made, along with the golden oldies, some notable pre-Glazer signings like Rooney, has lead to United being spoiled with success for several straight years, even in the face of some of out worst injury crisis seasons in his tenure as manager.
If he gets a cut of the IPO, there’s nothing new about that at all. It is common for employees and executives to be rewarded shares as part of an IPO, for either incentive or reward reasons. if there’s one man who deserves it, it’s Sir Alex, a pre-retirement paycheck for a man who achieved the impossible. Don’t try to damage his legacy or image just because he disagrees with you!
@Fred
Ok, but I looked at Moyes as a good example of what they are after anyway. And Solskjaer is a very possible scenario. And a very risky one as well.
Longer time lurker and very new poster here and the anti SAF stuff kills me. Just brutal. Some just have no idea how good they have it. Question his selection, tactics etc…but his integrity, not sure what to say to those types.
We need some games , this place is brutal right now. Claws out all over the place
@giggs12
—————-
- you can love Fergie but be dissapointed with his stance on Glazers and anti Glazer fans.
- You can support United with every fibre yet be concerned with the money either leaving or being generated for the Glazers.
- You don’t have to have the answers to believe that these pure business men have no right being in charge of Manchester United football club.
- you don’t have to have an economics degree to have an opinion on a leveraged buy out.
- let it be said to any financial expert on this blog please appreciate this is first and foremost a football club.
——————-
Sure theres some truth in everything you have posted but at the same time if people are going to form and opinion and even more so if they are going to express that opinion to others they have a DUTY to make sure they have gone in with an open mind, have researched throughly having taken in both sides and that a logical conclusion is drawn. It also has to be a conculusions thats relevant to the real world and not some fairy tale dream world that if it ever did exist hasn’t done so for many many decades
Too many people just take a hesterical approach, its like your Average Daily Mail reader who scans the headerlines and then starts complaining about something without usually reading the artcle and certainly not without getting context by reading opposing accounts. You don’t have to ultimatly like the Glazers and like Leveraged buyouts but you should atleast understand what the options are for other owners/funding and have an idea the costs for them are (both monetary and operationally) and then apply that to their opinion so atleast their argument for being anti Glazer & anti leveraged buyout is resonable.
As it is we get most people resort to cheap insults like Parasites and throwing up ideas like ‘Fan ownership’ as a golden solution without a structured argument and claims the club didnt have a ‘debt’ to someone before. So rather than a civilised adult conversation that would be interesting and useful we end up with a comment thread of personal attacks rather than one of a decent informed discussion
I could be way wrong, when I first game here to RoM my fear was the Glazzers not like most here. On other sites I found guys in high finance like here. But 18 months ago I was a dog with a bone on the financial situation for the club asking questions of many, most if not all fears quenched by KE, Fletch, Sir Giles, ON and ON and ON. Through my education of football and MUFC as Sir Giles on his last pots stated, SAF did not like the set up prior to the Glazzer take over, Spoke out against them and seems to like this ownership set up better. Now with this IPO it will be harder for a hostile take over. So then what? A familial that can buy a World Cup could buy this beloved sporting club. These rich boy fucks, fucked up US sports 30 years ago, I have grown insensitive of the English plight. Get use to it, the PL is the sport the world has chosen to watch, not the NFL or Indian cricket. The PL. So all these multi-billionaires will run to add a club like a new race horse. A 147 foot yacht!
this is unacceptable….the OT atmosphere has been gradually getting worse, hell, we got out-sung by both Ajax and Bilbao supporters who came in HUNDREDS…we got out-sung by pretty much anybody who came to OT…
out football has sucked in the recent years…
i guess you can attribute all that to glazer’s shitty ownership.
i guess you could make an argument that they kept the naming rights, didn’t interfere with the way the club is run and that they put out the funds for transfers.
but in the end, as soon as a lucrative naming rights deal comes up, they’ll sure as fuck jump at the chance to make some cash especially if the season ticket sales decline WHICH THEY WILL.
the transfers have so far been in the bargain basement save for a few which sucked half the time.
they almost doubled the clubs revenue? any owner would have done that.
just imagine what we could have achieved with a proper owner!
death to glazers
Dela careful I got banned by that!
@Fred and Costas
Actually Mourinho is EXACTLY the kind of manager the Glazers would go for. I said on the other thread that if you look at their history in the NFL they aren’t actually afraid of splashing the cash to get the right ‘coach’ even if it means hindering the player acquisition side.
It won’t be Mourniho however but not due to the Glazers but due to the fact they don’t take a hands on approach like they do with the Buccs, they bow to and trust the likes of Gills superior knowledge on proper football and trust his opinion and its the likes of him who will steer the club towards a less volatile manager
BEST POST OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!
AUGUST 1, 2012 AT 00:00
Cantona got me here says:
Longer time lurker and very new poster here and the anti SAF stuff kills me. Just brutal. Some just have no idea how good they have it. Question his selection, tactics etc…but his integrity, not sure what to say to those types.
We need some games , this place is brutal right now. Claws out all over the place
@peter –> That’s all complete bull and you know it. United won four titles in six years (lost one by a point, and one on goal difference), a champions league and contested two other champions league finals. So when you say our football sucks you are simply making a personal observation that is clearly biased because you hate the owners.
Also saying any owner would have doubled the revenue is something you have NO proof of, and can have no proof of. Like Fergie said, it’s perfectly fine for fans to protest, but when the protests turn to claims you simply cannot substantiate, and allegations against the greatest manager that the club and the game has ever seen, and hating on your own players… that’s not protesting anymore, it’s just trolling.
OK this circle thing, They do know how good they have it, that is why they fight so!!
Wayne, I hear you talk of the 70′s and 80′s. Mate I would have been in that wolf-pack. Slam dancing/mosh pit were big in the late 70′s and early 80′s. wow
Beg my pardon Sir , Freudian TYPO, no offence.
Sir Giles on his last pots stated… ooppss
@Dela – except that trolling is trying to piss off someone on purpose?
Sure. Titles have been won, we reached 2 CL finals in which we were completely dominated, we lost Ronaldo and Tevez (thank god – but he could have been shaped into a good player for us), we made questionable signings.
We got humiliated by Wigan and dropped points to them for the first time ever. We lost to Blackburn at home for the first time in i don’t know how many years. We tied Everton 4-4 at home, again losing points to them for the first time at home.
We got humiliated by City at home. Holy fuck. By some non-entity who used to fester in the 3rd division not too long ago. Not that i’d ever want a sugar daddy at United.
We got eliminated from Carling Cup (Crystal Palace), Fa Cup and CL (in the possibly easiest group in the history of CL) in short succession….
We are unable to make any high-profile signings. Ozil for 12 million? no value in the market?
I resent that.
And our football has looked so sloppy and pedestrian for the past few seasons.
Yes, personal observation, but i don’t think anybody in their right mind can say that we play the brand of football on par with City, Barcelona, Arsenal, Real Madrid and hell, even some other EPL clubs.
We got out-fucking-played so many times last season, even when we won, it was painful to watch.
But what i resent the most is Fergie’s backing of everything the Glazers do.
Fine point – i’ve no proof that any other owner would have doubled the revenue, but its not exactly Glazers who negotiated deals with Nike, DHL, AON, Chevy, etc, etc.
And in any case, are you trying to tell me that the club wouldn’t have done better had there not been
a 500 million euro debt on its back?
Ok, sorry, i’m clearly a fake fan, i’ll fuck off now.
@peter
“We are unable to make any high-profile signings. Ozil for 12 million? no value in the market?
I resent that.”
Picking the odd ‘value’ signing out to prove Fergie wrong is hardly conclusive is it. There will always be the occasional bargain and he has picked a few up himself but he is right about the general state of the market. You do also need to remember though Value is subjective, ask everyone of us here what we think a fair value of any player is and you will get a range of answers and some of us may not even rate the player one bit.
And lets be honest the Glazers have little to do with not getting some of our High Profile targets. Its been a combination of players preferring Spain or them chasing money which our 20+ year wage policy which is the only sensible option without a sugar daddy hasn’t allowed us to compete with sugar daddy clubs (rather than the Glazers)
@Peter
————————————
“Sure. Titles have been won, we reached 2 CL finals in which we were completely dominated, we lost Ronaldo and Tevez (thank god – but he could have been shaped into a good player for us), we made questionable signings.”
————————————
Questionable signings, like who? Let me guess, Bebe? On the two champions league finals we lost, we lost to superior opposition. Any team in Europe would have lost to them in both of those finals. Don’t forget they hammered Real Madrid 5-0 in one of those seasons. They were unstoppable. Ronaldo and Tevez also played in one of those finals.
On Ronaldo, he made it clear that he intended to leave Manchester United for his childhood club, Real Madrid. Knowing this, and with the world knowing it, it’s a miracle United commanded a fee of £80 million for him, considering Real Madrid could have just waited another year and dramatically reduced the cost. The Glazers did not force a Ronaldo sale, he wanted to leave in 2008 but Fergie convinced him to stay one more year.
On Tevez, after his 6 goal season in 2009, fans tried to force the club to sign him permanently, but his valuation simply was too high, given that he had a habit of being disobedient, and is a total prat. City paid an arm and a leg to sign him, and he has given them a mixture of goals and extreme disobedience. City is his bitch. To hell with him!
————————
“We got humiliated by Wigan and dropped points to them for the first time ever. We lost to Blackburn at home for the first time in i don’t know how many years. We tied Everton 4-4 at home, again losing points to them for the first time at home.”
————————
There’s a first time for everything. A lot of our failings last season come down to injury. We could have badly used Nemanja Vidic in quite a lot of games. The Everton game was just bad luck (Evra smacking the post etc.) You conveniently leave out that we beat Everton at Goodison for the first time in a few years after it had been problematic ground (lost in 2009, drew in 2010 conceding two in the last few minutes). We beat Blackburn 2-0 away, after we lost the league there in 2010 by drawing a game we should have won, and were held to a draw there last season, but clinched the league from it. We also didn’t lose at Anfield in the league game for the first time in several years.
—————————–
“We got humiliated by City at home. Holy fuck. By some non-entity who used to fester in the 3rd division not too long ago. Not that i’d ever want a sugar daddy at United.”
—————————–
We were 1-0 when Evans was sent off. We had next to no options on the bench, and we got hammered largely because we kept pushing forward when the game was lost (3 of their goals came in 5 minutes after running a ten man united ragged). If we had our first 11 vs. City’s first 11, there’s no way they’d score six. Even if we had just had Vidic to command discipline, and if Evra’s brother hadn’t died before the game, it would have been a different result, but it happened the way it happened and it can’t be changed, let’s just look forward to our next meeting.
—————————-
“We got eliminated from Carling Cup (Crystal Palace), Fa Cup and CL (in the possibly easiest group in the history of CL) in short succession….”
—————————
On the league cup, we putt out a weak side as we always do against inferior opposition. The league cup just isn’t that important. It’s not worth risking players, and it’s a chance to give the youngsters a go. We got hammered by West Ham in it the year before for the same reason.
We were knocked out of the FA Cup at Anfield after we knocked City out of the third round at Eastlands. Getting Eastlands and Anfield in quick succession was just bad luck, especially with the Suarez racist incident hanging in the balance.
On the Champions League, I don’t disagree. We should have made it out of that group easily. The only thing I can think of that caused our collapse in that group was inexperienced players on that stage, like Jones for example. But ye, we should have made it out of that group. It won’t happen again in 2012/13 though.
———————–
“We are unable to make any high-profile signings. Ozil for 12 million? no value in the market?
I resent that.”
———————-
He chose to go to Madrid. It happens.
———————–
“Yes, personal observation, but i don’t think anybody in their right mind can say that we play the brand of football on par with City, Barcelona, Arsenal, Real Madrid and hell, even some other EPL clubs.
We got out-fucking-played so many times last season, even when we won, it was painful to watch.”
———————–
Come on now… we lost the league on goal difference mate. City have no problem throwing millions around because their group is backed by links to the UAE royals. They can afford to buy anyone because they’ll pay anything and UEFA are proving to be VERY inconsistent (wouldn’t allow portsmouth to Europa League because of breach of financial rules, but allow City to play in Champions League when they breach rules at the other end..if I was a Spurs fan right now I’d be furious…). I do genuinely believe a hell of a lot of our problems came from injuries to key players. At different times in the league we lost hernandez, ashley young, nemanja vidic, anderson, tom cleverley, danny welbeck and many more… If you look at United with a close to full strength squad you get a different story….
Community Shield, after going 2-0 down we played an unbelievable stormer to turn it around to 3-2. The Spurs game at Old Trafford, 3-0, absolute domination and Anderson’s goal was epic.. Arsneal 8-2 at Old Trafford. Bolton 5-0 away… this is where Cleverley’s season more or less ended.. Chelsea 3-1 at Old Trafford (though our second half performance was a big step down). This team showed supreme quality when they weren’t split up.. and remember at this point, Scholes was still in retirement. Yes some of our performances have been sloppy, but our team selection hasn’t been consistent because it was impossible. We have great players but in many ways it was our worst season off the pitch in years. It was a season to forget for many reasons often due simply to bad luck…. City 3 – 2 QPR…
———————————
“But what i resent the most is Fergie’s backing of everything the Glazers do.”
———————————
He doesn’t back “everything the glazers do”, all he did was point out that he has never been denied a transfer fee when he wanted a player, despite fans essentially accusing him of lying about that. Fergie isn’t just standing up for the Glazers, he is standing up for himself, and I’d argue his players too.
——————————–
“Fine point – i’ve no proof that any other owner would have doubled the revenue, but its not exactly Glazers who negotiated deals with Nike, DHL, AON, Chevy, etc, etc.”
——————————–
It’s their staff and its not a coincidence that our major sponsors have been U.S. based for some time.. AIG, AON, General Motors etc. This is one point that nobody argues against, we have an incredible marketing team now. On my point about revenue, Fergie had three unsuccessful seasons and Chelsea looked like they weren’t going to go away, ever. Any owner could have given Fergie his walking orders, we’ve seen it many times in recent years. Instead, they kept faith in him and he kept faith in his players, including Ronaldo who was under immense pressure since it didn’t look like he was going to become the world class player he eventually did.
——————————–
“And in any case, are you trying to tell me that the club wouldn’t have done better had there not been
a 500 million euro debt on its back?
Ok, sorry, i’m clearly a fake fan, i’ll fuck off now.”
——————————-
I never called you a fake fan. It’s debt was much higher only a few short years ago too. Whether we would have been more successful, we don’t know. Without the debt payments there would have been a higher tax bill. If the Glazers had bought United with their own cash, they’d also be expecting a return on their investment — as any owner would — and money would still be coming from the club. Even if the club was public, you have a board and executives loyal to shareholders. Dividends payments would be necessary too, as they were pre-Glazer. United is a massive cash cow, anybody who buys it will take from it, that’s just the nature of the business these days.
Read some posters commenting about the loan here.
Ok, taking loan is of course very normal way to fund nowadays.
But, NOT paying their loan with their own money?? With our club money from tickets, sponsors etc.? The club should use this money for the club investment (I.e: buying players, etc.). Not for paying up the loan interest.
I cant make my mind up on the issue. Its easy to get caught in anti-glazer campaigning, but its not a horrendous situation. We’ve had just as much success under the Glazers than before. Lets remember we spent 50 million last transfer window and yet, “we have no money to spend”? How that money is spent is what we should be questioning why did we spend 28 million on Anderson when Chelsea sign Oscar for 26 million. Don’t falsify things to suit an arguement. If you hate the glazers thats fine, your opinion is valued, however what are you going to achieve. No ones gonna quit what they are doing. Also have we all forgotten the start of the season where albeit poor defensive discipline we absolutely destroyed teams. We taught City how to play in the community shield, unfortunately they took the hints. We walked over Arsenal and Spurs. I remember Sir Alex talking ages ago about how he had a plan for the future built around a nucleus of players as he called it involving youth players. At the start of this season Im convinced we saw that plan in action, I could be wrong, however that amazing form was not a blip and its not the last time we’ll see it. Its downfall coincided with injuries to Cleverley and Anderson, Cleverley deserves our faith Anderson not so much. My point is, that I think a lot of people are using the Glazers as a scapegoat. But then what do I know…I know I’ll support Man United no matter what.
@Dela – fair do’s. I appreciate that you took the time to write such a long post and most of your points are valid.
I guess there’s two views on our current situation, i can’t help but feel its all doom and gloom if this trend continues but i’m really hoping that i am wrong.
@red_bicycle
If there was no interest its unlikely to have been used on players as we DIDN’T spend the £150mill that was in the bank. If it wasn’t for the Glazers realising that Fergie wasn’t going to spend all of it and that it was losing money every second it was in the bank it would have still been around the £150mill mark now. As it is its £70mill after some of the bonds were bought back, land was purchased around the ground and facility improvements were paid for using it.
I have said it a million times but the thing thats held us back in signing players has not been the interest payments BUT our 20+ year wage policy. A wage policy which if anyone doesn’t agree is a sensible one for any club who has to be self sufficient as they don’t have a sugar daddy then I question their sanity
And anyway even without the interest would the interest still be there to spend. No it wouldn’t. Some would go on tax and some to dividends to the shareholders. The only difference in each ownership type is what the debts and interest is labelled as but it exists in pretty much any ownership type
Sorry for being daft, but can be United being relegated because of its debt, just like Leeds, Rangers?
What could be worse than having multi-million pounds debt?
Not winning a single silverware since the takeover???
What could be worse than having no debts at all?
Not winning a single silverware since the takeover???
What could be worse than not winning a silverware?
We have been pampered beyond belief. We are now so pampered that we now begin to question every aspect of the club. Do we have have the right to do so? We think we do, becasue we love the club more than we love our spouses…etc and buy merchandise and holds season tickets. We all are entitled to our own opinion. Right?!
Dela,
belter of a post pal, fucking brilliant!!
esp this,
———————————
“But what i resent the most is Fergie’s backing of everything the Glazers do.”
———————————
He doesn’t back “everything the glazers do”, all he did was point out that he has never been denied a transfer fee when he wanted a player, despite fans essentially accusing him of lying about that. Fergie isn’t just standing up for the Glazers, he is standing up for himself, and I’d argue his players too.
Really flabbergasted with how many fans are taking this lightly. THIS IS OUR CLUB THEY ARE PLAYING WITH!!!!! And SAF is in no right justifying the Glazers! If the results dont go our way this season I really see him becoming alienated with us while justifying the fucking Glazers!
An IPO for the biggest sporting brand is being offered and interest is LUKEWARM.
Thats what the Glazers are doing to our club.
Spectators of the club just want to join the bandwagon when the times are good. Supporters should take this seriously, we are being made irrelevant.
@Wakey:
What are you talking about? Do you know how much had been paid for the interest? let me quote for you.
“Since then over £500m has flowed out of United to service interest and debts charges. And yet the debts still stand at £423m, according to figures up to the end of March.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/glazers_are_going_nowhere.html
So, you still think it is due to the wage policy?
Costas
Mate…isnt it amazing that suddenly you have so many people coming on here who’ve “never posted in years but read the blog everyday for 5-6 years” come on just today and say “spot on fella…Glazers are good owners..blah blah” and just a couple of lines to that effect.
I mean I can understand some people who have been here for a long time and they have an opinion that Glazer ownership is not bad and thats ok, people can have opinions…but its really funny this phenomenon of first time posters surfacing on such issues as if some opinions need backing up
Also, many of these posters showing up on the day Red Captain Park presents himself again…coincidence can be a funny thing sometimes
Regarding Fergie taking a cut from the IPO, mate its a very normal corporate practice to give senior employees equity options, so I’m not that bothered with it to be honest. Although I can understand why some people would be disappointed since only half the money is being used to clear the debts as opposed to earlier. But still, thats just my opinion.
Giggs12, NRD, Mike
Nail on the head mates…the people are confusing the issue…the majority aren’t questioning Sir Alex’s committment to United, just his insensitive handling of the fans, a point even Giles Oakley made in his post, that as fans this whole issue is making people anxious about the future and legacy of the fooball club. Calling Sir Alex c*&t is not gonna help.
At the same time, some all knowing condescending posters on here get on my nerve…the tone and arrogance in their posts is so annoying its unreal as if they are some superior level of fans as opposed to the rest of us on here. All the success that we’ve had over the last 5-6 years is really blinding a lot of people to the real issues.
As NRD put it so well – “we’re winning so Glazers are good owners” You know what, I think people who are crediting the Glazer ownership for the success are doing Sir Alex a greater dis-service than the people calling him names.
Morning all
So the lads are in action again on the 5th, cannot wait……..Although I much more excited about the start of the new season which is slowing getting closer……
Oh and it seems I have yet another ‘fan’ on here, told you all I am a freak magnet!
All together now ‘And every one of us loves Alex Ferguson, loves Alex Ferguson’
Red Devil
Morning pal
Ole
Get a grip mate, your Molde are now 6 points off the pace………..You need to retain the title and at least get to the group stages of the CL………….Oh and I frigging love you by the way
Cedars
Morning pal..
Yeah….’lexxy baby’
Guy was a clear plastic, just come to have a pop at you with no intention of contributing to the blog or discussion. I guess you’d ripped him to shreds some time back, so the guy just changed his user-name, took some of Harry Kewell’s courage pills and came back for some, hoping that the divisiveness on the blog yesterday would help him get back at you. He forgot about his pals though!
Action begins soon enough mate…and we’ll go back to happy times. In the meanwhile, all the transfer talk has suddenly died down…No more about Moura or Robin Van Cedars…
I just hope Sir Alex gets the backing he needs so that he can retire on a winning note because I seriously believe that had we won the title last year, the great man may have decided to move on.
Red Devil
Ha ha ha, yeah that’s the one lexxy baby! You are right about the transfer speculation, seems to have dried out …..I think we are fine as is just as long as we keep our injuries to a minimum.
As for the boss, I doubt if he would have called it a day had we won the league last year, I think in his heart he still wants one more European cup, hopefully the lads can get one for the great man before he calls it a day.
Dear God, the mere sight of the dug out with out Sir Alex is a thought I have dreaded for a few years, unless its Ole who comes in then that can be some sort of compensation!
@Red Devil
Hi mate. No, I don’t think it’s a coincidence either. Especially when some of these newbies start their post by attacking some of the regulars here. That indicates to me that these folks have an ax to grind. Maybe Red Captain Park has more identities in the closet.
Anyway, it’s part and parcel of this blog mate. If Scott ever revealed to us how many ROM members had miltiple personas, it would come as a shock to quite a few. 
Red Devil
Plastic?…… Lol. How do you define a plastic, you are a joke keep worshipping Cedars that’s your choice. Like ℓ̊ said earlier have got thick skin to take your abuses. ℓ̊ have stated in my opinion that SAF is wrong in backing the Glazers and alienating the fans, if that’s what you call being plastic, suit yourself.
Dela
You sure know how to make up excuses for inexcusable failings, what is it with people not wanting to face facts, why always papering over obvious failings and cracks….. Hell yeah we lost VIDA so we should capitulate against Everton, Bilbao, and Basel, even Keano couldn’t take it in….. But you think its fair? Mtchew
Costas
I love that Red Captain Park name you’ve created! Fits all three in one! Mind you they are just one after all
Some of you are really not getting #9. It is not about whether Bebe’s talents are worth £7,4m but the fact that SAF clearly said that agent costs were excessive in the Hazard deal. Well, I guess Mendez is the one agent who has played his cards the right way with SAF.
Lexxy
So you always state your opinions by starting ” I am not afraid of so and so cunt person but my opinion is….blah blah blah….” and end it with “I know so and so cunt person is going to abuse blah blah”
Besides, you’ve haven’t given any sane reason or logic for your astonishing attack..
And what about this mtchewwww bollox after every post…think enough reasons to call you a plastic?
What an utterly daft and pathetic post……..Yeah perhaps Fergie and Mendez are mates and they split profits over player transfers …………
Blame Fergie? FUCK OFF
I agree with NRD – “we’re winning so Glazers are good owners”. Its kind of sarcasm.
The glazers treat our club like a business machine. Paying up £500m of interest since 2005 is ridiculous already! NOW, the club is still achieving many things these past few years (except for last year trophyless). So, the money is still coming from the winning prize, european competition money, tickets, sponsors, merchandising etc. Imagine another trophyless season or two. No achievement means no money coming from winning prize AND big sponsors will start to get away from our club to look for other more prestigous clubs. Lesser people will go to stadium or buy the merchandise. And the worst is when the creditors and the bankers call up to ask the club to pay up their borrowings. Their £423m of loan.
IF these happen how will the glazers treat our club? They will still treat our club like business machine! They will take whatever they can take, and they will find their way to leave the club safely. Yes, safely! Do you think if worst thing happen to our club, they will pay up with their own money? Why, what for? United is their business machine anyway, if the machine broke down its either to repair it or dump it. Will they repair it?
I love our club, our tradition, our history, our legends. Thats why I am worried about the worst thing could happen to this club. Our club looks like house of cards now. One pinch by a creditor can pull down the whole construction. Maybe its not that soon, but will you as real fans let it happen?
Cedars:
Oh, like the post you started with, and then didn’t reply to mine later on? And great job on missing the point yet again. I guess that is not one of your strong suits?
Seriously, how can you infer that from my post? Many of our players have/had Mendez as their agent and SAF’s recent agent outbursts just rises questions re the Bebe transfer. If that is too much for you to process then fine.
My fear is the Glazer’s finally pay off the debt one day, and some other chancer realises that owning Man Utd is a licence to print money, and purchases the club by saddling it with a shed load of debt again. The Glazer’s aren’t fans, they’re investors, and when they’ve milked the club for a few more years, are likely to sell it to te highest bidder. They are proving that United is a cash cow and can make a man who can’t really afford to own the club very wealthy.
Fact: most businesses are bought incurring some debt, although the amount lumped on Utd was very excessive and irresponsible.
Fact: debt aside (and all that entails), Utd is a well run club. People are allowed to get on with their jobs with apparently little interference. It’s just that the current owners can’t really afford to own the club.
Fact: the amount of money leaving the club to service the debt is alarming.
Fact: season ticket prices have increased an awful lot alienating long time match going
locals however, it is still by far the best value ticket in the Premier League.
Fact: the product we watch when we attend a match today is inferior to that we watched in 2008 and 2009. This miffs me off no end.
World Class
Yeah, getting the point is not not one of my strong points……..I read right through your post, do not get all snide and smart on me now eh?
Cedars:
Snide and smart? Look at your comment, the one you posted like 15 mins ago. It was totally unwarranted and I really don’t get what you were trying to achieve with it. If you really think it was daft and pathetic, and you don’t see how SAF’s comments and actions where a little contradicting then I really don’t know what to say anymore.
Unwarranted? ha ha ha You said ‘Mendez is the one agent who has played his cards the right way with SAF’
What does that imply?
Eddie Crew Cut, re your point on the quality of football, absolutely spot, the whole family went to watch Brazil v Belarus at the weekend, a racking game, on leaving the ground the wife commented that she’d really enjoyed and remarked “you’ve seen football like that since Ronaldo left” and she’s fucking right.
This next bit is not directed at Eddie.
Now can we separate the football coach that is Ferguson from the grasping cunt he’s become, because if you can’t then your going to make excuses for everything he does, backing the Glazers and making some spurious comment about “real fans” is one thing but sticking your nose in the trough with them is entirely another.
People need to remember that until the age 44 he didn’t give a moments attention to United a fact he’s stated in more than one interview, he’s a pro doing a job and on the trophy side it’s been fucking fantastic and if that’s your only concern then there’s a term for you, how anyone can say there hasn’t been a serious decline in the quality of the squad that continues, that £500m plus might have been better spent on improving the squad or facilities, that Fergie doesn’t get paid a decent wage with a percentage cut of transfer profit (a common practice in football), that it’s ok to rip more money out of “the brand” and for your manager to be a part of that.
FOFYFC.
The Sir Matt Busby Stand.
FOMYFC
CedarsDevil says:
Unwarranted? ha ha ha You said ‘Mendez is the one agent who has played his cards the right way with SAF’
What does that imply?
Maybe that he’s appealed to SAFs avaricious nature?
Yes Cedars, he difference is I pepper my argument with reason. do one.
Morning ferret fettlers
Well that was a lively discussion yesterday! Some people attributing our success over the years to Glazer ownership and slating the man who made it all possible. Some saying the Glazers have been terrible owners and hailing Sir Alex for his efforts. Some people praising the Glazer ownership and Sir Alex and others claiming both the Glazers and Sir Alex are accountable. I think over the course of the day every base was covered. All I know is that……. “Every single one of us, loves Alex Ferguson, loves Alex Ferguson, loves Alex Ferguson….” Glazer owned or not, without this man at the club all these people banging on about “success” as a measure of good ownership would have nothing to argue with! Sir Alex brought success and when he leaves a lot of you will be looking pretty crest fallen and scratching your heads wondering how a brilliant business model has managed to leave such a great football club tophyless for so many years! On brighter news, I see city have again used our scouring network effectively and are now in for Lucas Moura!
It is common knowledge that SAF really doesn’t hold agents in a high regard, right? It pisses him off when they get too big a slice from the cake and he isn’t afraid to talk about it. The latest case is the one with Hazard, where the agent got £6m or something around that. Apparently, along with the hefty transfer fee it was enough to put SAF of the deal. Yet, we were willing to pay up to £3m in agent fees with the Bebe transfer (bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18027560). Why treat the cases so differently? That was what I meant, perhaps SAF just has a better relationship with Mendez than other agents. But it still makes SAF’s recent comments look silly.
So, you don’t have to play Sherlock here, no cryptic messages of illegal activity or what not.
Eddie Crewcut- Did you watch the PRODUCT in the early 70′s , I did home and away we got beat nearly every match but when you love a product you love a product
At this point I want to defend foreign United fans a bit as there have been a few comments and jokes about us (not being allowed to own shares etc.). Local fans are naturally “the heart” of the whole fanbase and their “motives” for supporting United are obvious (in contrast to foreign fans who are often regarded as gloryhunters). I just want to point out that there are lots of truly passionate fans outside Manchester. For example I have watched every United match for the last 14 years although I can’t attend matches at OT that often. I also bought shares through MUST before the takeover. I was not born in Manchester, what can I do to be regarded as a true fan?
Mike Kelly, I cannot argue (how could anyone) with Fergusons footballing achievements however I find that a man who I once revered at the level of Sir Matt has some serious questions to answer at best, at worst he’s an apologist for the Glazers (they’ll do as they will of course) I’m afraid my patience has run out, he needs to come out and say I’m not profiting from this IPO, however if he is then it’s the final nail in the coffin, the money is being raised on 134 years of history, millions of fans worldwide, it says that in the prospectus, so we matter when it suits them. It makes net £4m difference per annum to the £40m interest annual interest bill and the level of bond debt will still need repaying in full in 2017, it’s just to improve cash flow.
Ferguson can kill this speculation with one comment, we both know he won’t, isn’t that very, very sad?
World Class
“£6m or something…” “Apperently….” I’m glad your backing your argument up with cold hard facts! How on earth do you get this insider info that Sir Alex doesn’t get at times? As we’re dealing in apparentlys and maybes, there’s a possibility that maybe these deals had an underlying context that none of us are aware of, which resulted in two different outcomes.
We are just one of those teams that you see now and then we often score 6 but we seldom score 10.
Matt
Keep them digs coming pal………..You are fucking hilariously full of shit
We beat em at home and we beat em away, we’ll kill any bastard that gets in our way
Mikekell12:
Straight from the horses mouth:
‘What we’re finding anyway, the climate for buying these top players — not just the transfer fees, [but] the salaries, agent’s fees — is just getting ridiculous now. In the Hazard deal, Chelsea paid the agent £6m. The Nasri situation was the same.”
Apparently, my “insider info” was just the internet all along. Don’t tell anyone though…
We are the pride of all Europe the cock of the North
Matt
I agree with the IPO situation, it will be interesting to see what happens regarding the shares. Like I said yesterday, I wouldn’t begrudge him this bonus for all he gas done for our club, but in the context he would be receiving it (if) he receives it, I’d imagine it would be a very unpopular act. What I don’t agree with is your constant disrespect for Sir Alex. You say yourself, he’s a pro doing his job! Yes he is and he’s doing it a damn sight better than anyone else could. That job includes having to conduct a fine balancing act of keeping fans happy, the owners happy, the playing staff happy, ALL of which have strong and alternative views. Yes he’s going to come out and say things he may not whole heartedly believe himself, have we not all done that in the past to keep it sweet?? I know I have… Just the other day I told my mrs she didn’t look fat in her dress!! But where is the unequivocal proof which has you going on calling him a grasping cunt! I’ve recognised your point about the relevant employers bonus and should that happen that would be another discussion. You champion a belief that everyone is entitled to an opinion, this should include Sir Alex yet you refuse to accept his opinion? I’m a lifelong fan, home and away for many years. Did I read anything he said as offensive towards me? No. His words are scrutinised to the enth degree, do I really think he believes you’re not a real fan unless you accept the Glazers? No. Could he have maybe worded his statement better? Yes. I just find it remarkable that in a career spanning over 25 years at Old Trafford, you are able to let a couple of recent episodes, of which we have no idea what is really going on behind the scenes, allow you to diminish and disrespect the man who has done so much for this club. If you want to continue coming on here calling him a cunt etc, that is up to you but it will deflect from some of the interesting points you raise and give you a reputation similar to some people on here you yourself have questioned.
We hate the scousers and cockneys of course AND leeds
World Class
Yes… your point is? Sir Alex appears to be saying that Transfer fees, salaries and agents fees are ridiculous these days??? You haven’t told me why the Hazard deal fell through or why the Bebe deal was conducted amicably?? Tell me, are you one of these who believes Sir Alex has come out and said we’re interested in RvP and Moura to help the IPO sell or to help sell season tickets?
Giggs12
Morning you fucking beauty………Got me all bouncing here
But Mike that’s where we differ, I do not believe Sir Alex Ferguson, winner of our 19th title and 2 CL trophies should take money/share options that are raised on the debt of Manchester United Football Club, shares options or dividends from profits are one thing, this is morally bankrupt, Fergie needs to come out and say he isn’t taking this cash.
Yes CedarsDevil says:
Matt
Keep them digs coming pal………..You are fucking hilariously full of shit
You might want to engage me in the argument, though I doubt that you will.
I’m offline now for a few hours so I’ll read any comments you have later, lay down some facts for me to counter.
Matt
And maybe he won’t? Let’s get it right, he doesn’t HAVE to come out and say fuck all, in the same way any of us don’t have to come out and tell everyone how much we got in our bonus even though the company is laying people off and going to the wall. But this act, which hasn’t even happened yet is justification for calling him a grasping cunt? Not in my book.
From the banks of the river irwell to the shores of Sicily……
Matt
Do not waste your time mate……..I will not give you the time of day…..Keep having digs at me though, good for a laugh
We will fight fight fight for United until we win the football league…….
Man U is da best. Go rooney. I think dat SAF needs to invest in 2-3 world class playerz. Please just a few mor playerz so we can compeet with City. For me martinez and kaka and maybee messi. Yes Glory Glory Man U!!!
UNITED UNITED UNITED
All together now
Cedars
Maybe we’re wrong pal. Maybe we’re missing something and Sir Alex is a cunt?! Maybe when World Class comes back with his insider information he will clear things up like he did earlier with his paraphrased “straight from the horses mouth” bombshell.
Mike
Its a piss take mate…………Such ungrateful cunts make me sick
Mathew7.
Are you suggesting as an employee he is not worthy or hasn’t earned an allocation of shares in the club?All the privatised industry employees got a share when floated.All major companies give share allocations to employees and in the insurance industry every body same thing.Banks even every account holder with a minimum sum in the account got a bounty provided you were over a certain age probably even you Did you refuse it?
Mike:
You said my comments were based purely on conjecture alone. I proved to you that it was not the case. In the same interview with SAF he said that the Hazard deal fell trough because we valued him at well below the figure he went for. As for the bebe deal, I can only go with what I read. ofc I can’t tell you WHY the Bebe deal was conducted amicably and back it up with an article from the BBC… As for your question: Would I place all my money on the fact that it is just a trick to get people to buy season tickets? Certainly not. I guess we will know after the transfer window has closed.
Mikekelly12:
Are you illiterate? Never did I say that I have some insider info.
Yes Mike is illiterate, did you not know that? He is just of them simple folk who loves United with a passion…….
World Class
Ever been to a match you tit? Highly doubt it, probably one of them arm chair fans with an idiotic opinion
Dazbomber
The 1970′s was before my time, but I’ve been a supporter through some pretty cack days in the 1980′s (I remember being at a particularly crap game against Southampton in about 1988 – getting hammered 2-0 at home). I cried my eyes out. I’ll love United come what may, no matter what happens. I also happen to think that I’m a blind moron for having such an attitude.
We see these massive increases in revenue streams at the club, and see that the money is going elsewhere. I think that many fans would grudgingly accept the ticket increases if we were watching world class players everday.
They can argue about agents fees, wages and transfer fees, but the simple fact is that these things are led by market forces. They’re here to stay. If you want to buy a Rolls Royce in football these days, you have to pay the going rate. If you won’t pay the going rate, you have to buy a cheaper car.
“Product” was a turn of phrase, don’t read anything in to it. The sentiment remains the same though. They’re asking us to pay more for something that simply isn’t as good, and they’re doing it off the back of mine and everyone elses blind loyalty.
World Class
I fail to see where you have “proved” this? Or why Sir Alex’ comments were silly?
Haha… Here comes Cedars, the ultimate Fan with a capital F. Debating is not his forte, but he is great at talking shit and attacking posters when their opinion differs from his own. (NOTE: You’re on a blog) You are laughable.
Mikekelly12:
read my comments again, I have clearly stated why his comments re agent fees are silly. The level of the debate on this blog is seriously lacking.
World Class
Now now… Thats just getting personal. I am not illiterate, however I am dyslexic. I really do wish you hadn’t made this a personal attack! No, you did not say that, but as you based your argument on facts and figures, I assumed that you would only use them as the basis of an argument if they were indeed fact. In which case you must have had insider knowledge?
I have based my arguments on two articles:
the bbc one posted earlier and the interview with SAF: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2176993/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-defends-Manchester-United-owners-The-Glazer-family.html
Still think that #9 is a very valid point, and something most here just brushed under the carpet.
@World Class
Point 9 is a valid one. It’s something I myself mentioned when Fergie slated Hazard’s agent for his demands. All of a sudden, we are acting as if we never did business with agents.
@Cedars
Morning mate. I just thought I’d save him the trouble. Maybe he should start posting under that username instead of making a fool out of himself.
Costas:
Thanks. Not totally crazy then after all.
World Class
I will rise above your inappropriate comment, which makes your user name slightly oxymoronic as you are indeed classless! However, I will persevere and attempt to get my point across, which really should not have been that difficult.
You say Sir Alex’s comments are silly because United “purportedly” paid Jorge Mendes £3m in fees. Correct me if I’m wrong but I haven’t seen Sir Alex quoted on the question of this “purported” payment to Bebe’s agent. Sir Alex then says that the deal for Hazard didn’t go through because United didn’t value him at the price he was being sold, not because of agents fees? He does point out that Agent fees are “ridiculous” and that Chelsea are understood to have paid £6m in fees. So tell me, why is this silly?
@Red_bycicle
Yes I know how much the interest payments are but it’s a meaningless number in reality ESPECIALLY in relations to transfer fees.
Let’s have a look at some facts
- During the Glazers ownership we have the 3rd highest transfer spend in English football. Only City and Chelsea have spent more
- We have had between 120 and 150 million in the bank during most of the glazer ownership
- we have had bids over 20mill accepted for Benzema, Villa, Hazard, Silva, Nasri, Sneidjer
So we are the 3rd highest spenders only beaten by the two sugar daddy clubs who have spent stupid money and our spend could have been over 150mill more (admittedly if we had got some of those we wouldn’t have been after some of the others). Unless you think the ‘leaches” as people like to call the Glazers are so concerned with looking good to the United fans do you really believe tey would leave so much money in the bank when the interest rates are so low that the rate of inflation is higher meaning it’s losing them value. It was there for transfer fees.
The sticking point in the bids where the player didn’t come have been a combination of players preferring Spain or simply down to wages. Wages that the only way we can increase how much we can offer is by increasing revenue. Revenue being the figure BEFORE interest deductions so the Interest means nothing to wages
As for why it’s generally meaningless. It’s a figure without any context. In reality most if not all that 500mill would have gone out the club in pretty much any other ownership type (sugar daddy owners excluded) via things like dividends. If the revenue increases and costs decreases had been maintained the dividend and tax bill would have been in the same ball park. People will say that the Dividend wouldn’t have to be paid but the club always did pay a dividend and the fact that we can service the debt means the money for the dividends would have been there so there is no reason they wouldn’t have paid them
If Dividends were much lower then the only reason for this would mean that either revenues were down on the Glazers or costs were higher thus profits were hit but in that case it hardly makes the club any better off.
Mikekelly12:
I’m sorry that you have dyslexia. But I felt you played me for a fool when blatantly saying that I claimed to have inside information. Hence the question.
Why is it silly? See Costas’ comment. Was able to put it clearly in two sentences. I guess he is a better man than I am. Also, I’d say the BBC is a pretty reliable source and that there is no smoke without fire.
Wakey
Without even going into all other points – I have answered them in another thread –
Just because Dividend were paid in the past, doesn’t mean we would have to continue to pay dividend – especially not at the rate of ~75 m per year that we are paying on the debt (or 55 mn per year to account for taxes at 27%) as has been the case with debt.
Besides, its not as if the Glazers have not been paying themselves a dividend over and above the interest costs and constant use of club money to buy back debt. Interest fee loans (later waived) and other payments quite clearly documented but you always choose to ignore those.
Just to re-iterate my point that dividends were not necessary – I take it you are not a big fan of shares that dont pay dividend – and hence consider this ridiculously overpriced IPO by the Glazers as a stupid move as i not only does bring back all the listing fees, etc etc that we were keen to avoid, but also raises the tax rate to 35% and doesn’t plan to pay any dividend at all.
NO ONE should be subscribing to this IPO because not only does it pay no dividends, but also has just 1/10th the voting power of the shares owned by the Glazers
Fergie’s been a great manager. The best. But he’s not bulletproof. If he hadn’t fucked up over the horse mess we would probably not be in this jam. And what a jam it is. I guess life was never meant to be easy for us fans. Where the fuck is the FA in all this? How could they have ever let the sale to the Glazers go ahead in the first place? (I know this territory has been well covered but gee what total neglect of the game by the ruling body!).
Red Issues letter is written by semi-literate, disingenuous rabble-rousers.
A shameful, underhanded and manipulative attempt to deceive United fans, with an obvious disregard for truth. A sneaky, deceitful attempt to to trap our gaffer into providing ammunition that will be used against him in the selfish hope that the Glazers too will suffer.
Pertinent, fair questions could have been asked, but weren’t. Instead, they chose to lie, and ask questions based on their lies.
—————————————————————————–
Questions 1, 2 and 3 are based on the false premise that SAF implied that the anti-Glazer fans are not real fans. The semi-literate self-serving deceivers chose to distort the gaffers comments. Actually, Sir Alex describes two groups of fans. A minority of real fans are anti-Glazer, the majority of real fans are more realistic. These 3 questions are valueless, and are designed to distort the truth and trip up Sir Alex. They are cancerous, selfish, dishonest and intended to destroy the fabric of our Club.
Question 4 should be directed at the cause of the stated malaise. The anti-Glazer activists are absolutely responsible for the departure of previously Red fans. Further, the rules in place at Old Trafford to protect match-goers from harm caused by unruly crowds, have changed the way that supporters behave. These rules now exist because of changes to England’s laws, which was a reaction to crowd-control failures that caused death and suffering. The stadiums are unfortunately not designed to safely hold dancing, jumping, leaping or even standing fans. It seems that United are keen to improve the atmosphere at OT, and have already attempted to create a safe and legal area for boisterous fans. This problem requires alterations to the existing seating, which will reduce the stadiums capacity. Despite the loss of revenue and the capital expenditure required, I believe it is only a matter of time before the necessary alterations are sanctioned by the owners.
Question 5 is written by puerile malcontents dismayed at hearing that the Glazers do not restrict Sir Alex. Instead of being pleased to hear that SAF is not negatively affected, the questioners childishly bleat “We don’t like them, you don’t care about our feelings, we are important, you mustn’t be truthful, don’t you care about our agenda?”
Questions 6 and 7 are irrelevant and an obvious attempt to find a stick to beat SAF or the Glazers. The fact is that whatever does constitute poor owners in SAF’s view, does not apply to the Glazers. Instead of being openly happy to hear this, Red Issue immediately look for other avenues to attack from. This shows that their intention is not to find the truth, but to find ways of attacking United, Sir Alex and the Glazers.
Question 8 is asking United to pay whatever is asked for new players. That philosophy would be a perfect answer to Question 6 – what would constitute poor owners? Disregarding value and price in the hope that it brings short term success is a trait we can do without.
Question 9 is based on a lie. It implies that Mendes cut was not warranted. Mendes partly owned Bebe, and the owners of a player’s contract are entitled to receive a percentage of the players sale price, in direct proportion to their percentage of said ownership. If 3 people own a horse, and they sell it, the sale price is shared by the 3 owners.
Question 10 is written by an idiot. Who cares if the questioning is reprehensible? Certainly not those who are asking the questions. Ask as many questions as you like, but do so intelligently and from a base of factual knowledge. In order to consider a player as ‘good value’, one must be familiar with the thousands of considerations that apply. Only those with pertinent understanding of the transfer being mooted should attempt to evaluate the cost’s validity and worth. Sir Alex’s ability in this regard is oft-proven; the vast majority of those who question his evaluation do so without knowledge, understanding, ability or intellect.
Dr Dread my hero.
World Class.
The BBC are a pretty reliable source? Of course they are didn’t they already prove that with their expose on managers and agents on the take over the past few years.
We need Fergie to Stand up to the owners much like the fat spanish waiter did to his american owners
Its amazing how pathetic some people are, I go on city blogs to have a laugh at what shit they say. Any city fan who does the same would have a fucking field day here. We disagree over issues, so what, doesnt mean everyone has to start insulting each other, like its a civil war. Also I saw a comment that basically said if you’ve never been to a match your opinion is worthless. Im gonna level with you guys ive never been to old trafford, my parents arent in to football and dont earn a lot of money, so Ive never wanted to burden them with a trip to old trafford. My dad works 7 days a week which isnt legal im pretty sure, so he couldnt even find time to go at the moment. However that doesnt mean im less passionate about Man United than someone who’s a season ticket holder, and its insulting that someone believes my opinion is inferior because i havent been to a game, if you still believe that after Ive explained my side of it to you, I think your very ignorant, and ignorant people arent worth listening to.
@Red Devil
And once again when a company has a policy of regularry paying a dividend they DON’T usually decide to suddenly change or change its percentage of profits that are paid as dividends. We can all pretend that suddenly the PLC would have said ‘sod the shareholders, we are making a profit that we won’t ever spend on player or facility improvements but we are just going to sit on it’ but let’s get realistic because that doesn’t happen. And the simple fact is that the club couldn’t spend the massive amounts in the bank as it was so its not even as if increased spend on players was going to reduce profit and reduce the dividend due. The £500mill extra would have been sitting in the bank because the restrictive element is the wage budget which once again is on REVENUE not profit.
And I haven’t ignored the management fees in my posts but they are largely irrelevant as the management fees REPLACE management fees under the PLC for specialist services provided.
As for the IPO it will sell and well to the target audience. It’s aiming at a different kind of investor than the PLC was for example. Not all investor are looking for Dividends or voting rights, they just want stock which will rise in value regularry which you would expect even at that price it will as there is a lot of room still for growth (as the $600mill chevy deal shows)
Why are most in denial over the Bebe transfer?
We paid £7 million, its been reported in several publications including the investigation over the transfer with Guimares.
We took a punt looks like it didn’t work out end of story.
Not the first time we’ve taken a punt and it won’t be the last either.
No need for everyone to say we didn’t fork out the fee when we blatantly did because as players go Bebe has to be one of the worst to pull on a United shirt.
He’s made it as a player, just not United class.
It would definately be preferable if Fergie stuck to talking about footballing matters rather than wade into this. The man is an absolute legend but this reflects poorly upon him, especially given his background as a shop steward.
Management fees and interest free loans (later waived) are different things and the scale of those fees is much larger in todays context than under the PLC
So finally you do accept that there would have been 500 mn in the bank, rather than 420 odd mn owed that we have now….?
And why would we not have spent those 500 mn…? Is there a legal rule that doesn’t allow PLC’s to spend more than 50% of REVENUE on wages…? That was just an internal ball park rule. We could easily go upto 60% or so if we did not have such massive interest payments below EBITDA and still generate a healthy profit for the club…
The dividends could have been reduced or even stopped…there are many examples of companies successfully changing their dividend policies…it DOES happen mate…just because you arent aware of it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The shares would just have changed hands to people who are patient enough to wait for an increase in value as you argue for the current IPO above. And the increase in value that they would have achieved then is far greater than any increase in value any investor can hope to achieve from the level of 3.3 bn valuation being put on the club now..
“Not all investor are looking for Dividends or voting rights, they just want stock which will rise in value regularry which you would expect even at that price it will as there is a lot of room still for growth” (as the $600mill chevy deal shows)
————————————————————————————-
Wow…Forbes had valued us at 2.2 bn in march and its suddenly 3.3 bn in July…50% growth in value in 3 months in today’s economic conditions when every asset class is losing value hand over fist and we are in recessionary state…? Wow….The valuers at Forbes must be absolutely stupid to undervalue the club by 50%???
The IPO should be more oversubscribed than Facebook!! Even that company cant generate 50% growth in value in 3 months AND promise of furher spectacular calue growth in the future!
One final observation – I’m personally finding it a joke that Facebook is valued at more than United is, even at 3.3b. A virtual product that could and will lose its appeal in 4-5 years time, vs one that will always appeal to the privileged few (million) of the world population until there aren’t enough population to sustain the wages of the few footballers.
Some took offence at my notion of support, but everyone supports things differently. I do call United my club, but I don’t really believe I have any right to demand for things to be done in a certain way, because it’s not really mine. And I’m just being realistic about it. Because life is not about IFs and MAYBEs and PERHAPSs and APPARENTLYs. I do what I can in the way I choose to. Those calling SAF names and derogatory terms, really now. Who next? The great Sir Bobby Charlton for not speaking up against the Glazers as well?
And no one has bothered about the cockiness shown by Vincent Kompany after signing a new deal. 7 years consecutive my arse.
CedarsDevil says:
Matt
Do not waste your time mate……..I will not give you the time of day…..Keep having digs at me though, good for a laugh
But Cedars I do believe it was you that started the digs, well ok if that’s how you want to leave it, says more about you and your inability to engage and discuss the issue at hand or face the reality of it.
At least we cleared that up if nothing else.
This is the beginning of the end for the Glazers. I can feel it in me bones.
I’m going to give you a new angle on this Saga. Even though it might sound far out it’s not written to make you laugh or anything like that. I want the Glazers out as much as any fan.
In Astrlogy the movement of Saturn show you where and when crisis and stumbling blocks will occure. Every 28th year there is a grave problem. And every 7th year there is a reflection on that problem. 7 years ago Saturn showed itself at the accendant of Manchester United (24.04.1902). That’s the year when the Glazers came. Now 7 years later, there is a problem because of the great harm created then.
This might be the time we get rid of them!
28 + 7 years ago United were in turnmoil. Docherty had been sacked and every last rest of the holy trinity and the glory days were gone. Some 7 years after that Ron Atkinsons management started to crumble. We all know the happy outcome of that crisis…
Alex Ferguson saved us. Although it took 7 years to win the league…
I think the Glazers want out. They want to get a very high price for United on the marked, and then sell.
I think SAF knows. I think he’s only concern is Uniteds future. He needs to stay and stear through these problems. He couldn’t care less for those demons. That’s why he’s backing them. Only way to keep them happy and get rid. Toss them that bone of 25m for each ugly duckling they made ungrace the earth. And then someone with a heart for United can buy the club.
Shame on those who think SAF will get anything out of this. Rememeber that Mankini guy earns more, and he’s only got 2 trophies, bought for the price of Uniteds interest the last seven years, to show for. If Saf cared for crazy money, he would have asked for it.
ALL WILL BE REVEALED IN THE LAST EDITION OF: MANAGING MY LIFE
One love Manchester United
Red Issue = Shite
@Red Devil
Seriously either learn to read or just piss off.
What I wrote and it’s quite clear to anyone not trying to twist my words is that IF they choose to say ‘Sod the Shareholders’ and stopped paying dividends then there would be $500m in the bank. I repeat IF the PLC had chosen to stop paying dividends and had been able to realise revenues and cut costs there would have been £500m.
However I know and you know that they wouldn’t have stopped paying dividends or reduced them. It’s just anti Glazer bullshit as companies generally only do so with a very good reason and there would be no real reason if the PLC had the same ballpark revenue and costs.
At the end of the day we can’t view a parallel universe and see what exactly would have happened under them PLC so we have to stick to forecasts based on the PLC’s past actions if we are going to discuss the Glazer cost, we can’t start using assumptions with no historical evidence to back them just because it suits your desired outcome. Otherwise discussion of the cost of the Glazers has to be off limit because it’s simply not a fair discussion.
And we wouldn’t have spent the £500m if they choose to forgo dividends because they couldn’t spend £150m. And no there isn’t a law to restrict wages to 50% but it’s a widely accepted ratio to be safe. Increasing it above that is dangerous as it leaves little room for exceptional events happening. And the PLC wouldn’t have budged imho either, they were having wage issues too with Chelsea stealing players who United had all but got deals signed with using the lure of wages.
And I’m not arguing that the value isn’t high. Forbes value will be closer to the actual value BUT the IPO value will include some speculation of growth in its value
Let me tell you something. These people involved in Red Issue presume they speak for Manchester United fans when in reality they do not. Those questions are not even a thinly veiled disgusting attack on Sir Alex Ferguson. It is just such a pity that Manchester United fans are so prone to jumping on one bandwagon or another because Red Issue don’t represent Real Fans at all.
The level of arrogance in that article is disgusting with every question assuming that the answer would be self evident.
For example take question 2:
2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans?
No. These fans were cunts. They were the worst fans who deserted the club at what they themselves considered to be the most crucial time. Whenever the first rule of support is to be loyal they fucked off and started a new club. Yet, Publications like Red Issue lauded these asshats.
6. What would constitute poor owners? For me Roman Abramovic a man who on a whim got rid of arguably the best manager in the game Jose Mourinho. Who invested kamikaze amounts one minute and lost interest the next. For all the faults of the Glazer ownership I find them to be consistent and professional. Yet, I believe it would only take a billionaire throwing money around to please these clowns at Red Issue regardless of collateral damage.
The thing is that the Red Issue agenda just doesn’t merit a response. Will the lack of response be because the questions are too hot to handle? No. But that is what they will assume. In reality it is because I believe Sir Alex will regard such an agenda as pure horse manure as most Real Fans should.
@Wakey
Learn to accept the truth or piss off
Look who’ trying to accuse others of twisting facts to suit their own conclusions….
Buying a world class player would have been enough reason to not pay dividend/pay smaller dividends in some years
Hostorical evidence is there pal..there are hundreds of examples of actual companies choosing to reduce/Not pay dividends because they have heavy investments/capex in some years — IT is YOU who is choosing to ignore facts because it suits your desired outcome. Interest payments cannot be stopped because we have heavy capex in some years
“And no there isn’t a law to restrict wages to 50% but it’s a widely accepted ratio to be safe. Increasing it above that is dangerous as it leaves little room for exceptional events happening”
Yes…And the current set-up with more than 50 mn pounds of interest repayments annually leaves a LOT OF ROOM for EXCEPTIONAL EVENTS DOES IT??
“And I’m not arguing that the value isn’t high. Forbes value will be closer to the actual value BUT the IPO value will include some speculation of growth in its value” – SOME GROWTH i hear you say…? 50% growth in value in 3 months? (and even more is being assumed if you except anyone to make money on this) —- You must have learnt your theories of finance from a parallel universe pal
Your OWN arguments are self -defeating now mate…Give it a rest…or follow your own suggestiuon and PISS OFF
This letter’s absolute crap and I agree fully with brett1985.
@Red Devil
Buying a world class player ISN’T a reason not to pay dividends BECAUSE THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO DO THAT AND STILL PAY THEM
Seriously is there something wrong with you mentally that makes you unable to see the fact that even with the interest payments that there was £150mill in the bank. That was enough to buy Benzema, Sneidjer, Villa and Hazard and STILL have some left over (and also having bought Carrick, Berba, Anderson, Nani, Vidic, Evra, Valancia, De Gea, Young, Jones, Smalling, Hernandez, Bebe, Lindergard, Kagawa, Powell and anyone I missed)
The club hasn’t been starved of transfer funds AND there isn’t any indication that an extra 40-50mill a year would have been used on transfers. If the club had been spending the money it had available every season or atleast close to it then I would agree that the interest money would be useful and it would go on transfers BUT we haven’t been spending the money available so it WOULD HAVE gone into profit and then tax and dividends paid out of that profit
As for the IPO vale we aren’t talking about a 50% rise in 3 months though. Firstly you are talking about two different figures, Forbes which is an actual value and the IPO value which is a more a predictive one. And the two figures are from a 12 month gap, Forbes is based on the last full year of accounts before Forbes report so that’s 2010/11 where as the value here is based on the provisional accounts for 2011/12. This ‘forecasted’ value will take the Chevy Deal, the new AON deal, the New TV deal and the various other new deals agreed in the past 12 months and will no doubt also be using forecasts for the expected value of upcoming deals (such as the Nike Deal) in the coming years.
It’s a high value and certainly will put many who are looking for a quick turn around off but they don’t seem to be aiming it at these people anyway by put rather long term investors who just want a steady stock
@Wakey
And the current set-up with more than 50 mn pounds of interest repayments annually leaves a LOT OF ROOM for EXCEPTIONAL EVENTS DOES IT?? – - so you accept the above point that the current set up leaves very little room to increase wages to compete with other clubs and leaves no room for exceptional events?
Buying a world class player ISN’T a reason not to pay dividends BECAUSE THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO DO THAT AND STILL PAY THEM – precisely what I’ve been saying – in the past we could afford to buy world class players and still pay dividends if needed. In case there was some exceptionally heavy spending in some year, then we could have chosen not to pay/reduce dividends in some years which is not possible in the current regime.
“Seriously is there something wrong with you mentally that makes you unable to see the fact that even with the interest payments that there was £150mill in the bank. ” –
that 150 mn in the bank was not contributed by the Glazers…80 mn of it was just down to the Ronaldo sale being completely unused and the rest from the exceptional prize money accumulated on account of winning the Premier league and Champions league double the previous year and reaching the champions league final again..AND the figure should have been much higher if not for the nearly 120mn odd debt related payments in those two years – so in reality those 150 mn should be higher to about 250 odd million.
” That was enough to buy Benzema, Sneidjer, Villa and Hazard” — we didnt end up buying any of those world class players did we? Only in the case of Villa was it not down to money — in the case of others it was down to money as thy didnt have any special affiliation with real, inter or chelsea. The proof of the pudding is in its eating – just the transfer fee isnt enough – wages are part of the transfer and in our current regime we cant exceed ~50% wage limits because we have huge interest burden to cover.
All the other players you have talked about we have purchased have been bought by the club’s own generated money and not by anything fund infusion by the Glazers — why cant you accept that…they have never put a single penny of theirs into the club’s accounts..You are one thats completely blind in that regard. Or do you think we have started buying players in the transfer market only after the Glazers took over?
“And the two figures are from a 12 month gap, Forbes is based on the last full year of accounts before Forbes report so that’s 2010/11 where as the value here is based on the provisional accounts for 2011/12. ” —- And our provisional accounts for 2011-12 are worse than last year because of our early exit from champions league…I fail to find any reason for 50% growth in value in 3 months..
The new Chevvy deal and TV deal aren’t that much of an increase over the current deals — AON shirt deal was for 20m pounds per annum whereas the new Chevvy deal is just 25m pounds p.a from reports – a 5 mn p.a increase over a revenue of 350 odd mn -barely 1.5% increase in revenue…even including the increase in United’s share of TV money, etc all that barely adds to even anything close to the 50%+ increase in valuation of United. Besides the value is not just based on the cash flows or hard assets, but a lot of the valuation of United is down to brand-name, etc and we all know how quickly that can deteriorate if results on the pitch slip for a few years — no way you can justify it.
Yeah….people who are looking for a steady stock—- An industry where the fortunes are decided by results in a matter of games (you lose a couple of round robin games -out of champions league!) is hardly a place where a “steady” investor is going to be putting his money in dont you think ??
Why cant you accept that the club’s money is being taken out to service the debt and personal expenses of the owners?
@ Danizizu says:
“stop being all dramatic.I think fans should be all about the football and not this admin issues.”
nobody is being “all dramatic”.
these are REAL fans concerned about this glorious club.
the “admin issues” are and have already affected the football.
WHERE have you been the past few years??