As the Euro 2012 Qualifier between Wales and England this weekend approaches it reminds me of a great sadness I’ve always had about Ryan Giggs. Despite winning 64 caps for his native Wales, he’s never appeared at any major international tournament. No World Cup, no European Nations finals. It just doesn’t seem right.
In general I’m not too bothered about international matches, which historically have had a horrible habit of leaving Manchester United players with injuries, sometimes career-ending, as with Steve Coppell in the 1980s. So I was relieved when Giggs retired from international football a couple of years ago, although it does still feel wrong that we have been deprived of seeing him on the world stage.
However, for United fans it may be no bad thing. One of the things that has always driven Giggs has been the spur of failure, almost more than the pull of success. In those rare years when the team has won nothing he spends the summer holidays brooding over what went wrong, full of resolve to ‘put things right’ the following season. It’s one of the things I’ve always loved about our Ryan, that unwavering desire to win trophies with United. It makes total sense that he should have won more medals than anyone else in the club’s history, as noted by every commenator marking the twentieth anniversary of his first team debut this month.
It’s a truly astonishing record, the two Champions League winner’s medals, eleven league titles, four FA Cups, four League Cups, an Intercontinental Cup, and a Club World Cup. What makes it even more remarkable is that almost no-one begrudges Giggs his success. Hardly anyone has a bad word to say about him, apart from perhaps those Liverpool fans who spat in his face after he’d given them his autograph after a match at Anfield. He’s one of the most respected sportsmen in Britain, admired as a role model on and off the pitch, one of the all-time greats, recently voted United’s greatest ever player in a poll of fans.
But amidst all this shower of utterly deserved praise one thing has slipped by unnoticed.
Ryan Giggs may be the most decorated player ever, but he’s also United’s biggest loser.
When totting up all the trophies Giggsy has won, people forget all those near misses, all those times he’s had to settle for second-best, when he’s been merely a runner-up, when he’s been a loser.
And yet, when you think about it, if you forget all the winner’s medals and just add up all his loser’s medals it is still an astonishing achievement. There are players for whom simply getting to one cup final is the peak of their career, even if it’s the Inter Toto Cup. Others may look back fondly on reaching a championship play-off at Wembley, or even getting to a Champions League semi-final, and think they had ‘made it’.
So consider how you’d feel if you were a footballer and at the end of your career you could look back at the following:
Runners-up in the Premier League (and old First Division): five times
Champions League Finals: One Loser’s medal
FA Cup Finals: Three Loser’s medals
League Cup Finals: Two loser’s medals
And throw in for good measure four or five Charity/ Community Shield loser’s medals.
It is actually a remarkable record, and no other player comes close to matching it at Old Trafford.
And remember that every one of those disappointments will have driven him on relentlessly in the next competition, making him even more determined to get his hands on silverware. Now , as the run-in approaches on three fronts it’s a good time to remind Giggsy of what coming second feels like.
So please join me in celebrating the career of the incomparable Ryan Giggs, serial winner, and United’s Biggest Loser
Come on Giggsy, show us your medals!
Man Utd News 24/7
Well, sad as it maybe, it hasn’t done the lad too much disservice in club football. I’m sure he doesn’t break a sweat thinking about it.. The criminality is that he could never have played for England. Imagine the difference he’d have made.
Regarding the international career, he’s in the same situation as George Best: one of the greatest players, never to be seen in a World Cup.
Giggsy will always be remembered for his shear determination to succeed. A UNITED LEGEND!!!!! I was watching video of Ryan “Wilson” when he was 14, he was absolutely brilliant then as he is now.
I never thought I’d be happy to read that Giggsy is a bigger loser than Stevie GBH
Great article as always Giles…Cheers
If anyone sees Willie please let me know, he owes me some money!
Haha! Quality piece Mr Oakley.
Yeah he is our biggest loser, but it’s not like we could have won 20 trebles in his 20 seasons at United.
I think it’s still remakable that he’s been a runner up so many times. It’s not easy finishing 2nd in the league and it’s a LOT hard just getting to the Ch.League final.
“However, for United fans it may be no bad thing. One of the things that has always driven Giggs has been the spur of failure, almost more than the pull of success.” Spot on. Even at the age of 37, it is this quality that defines our Sir Ryan. The second half performance against Blackpool comes to mind. Almost singlehandedly changed the game, bollocked his team mates into giving it their all. As I once said, you could see, that for him, “It’s not busines – it’s personal”.
@ScholesForGoals: “The criminality is that he could never have played for England. Imagine the difference he’d have made.” Dont count on it mate. Sven would probably have decided that the best position for Giggsy is right back (and then got promptly murdered by RedNev for his troubles)
Well he’s the club world cup aint it..
Costas
Morning mate, any idea where Willie is? Need to collect some cash from him
maybe giggs will be one of the 3 overage players in the GB 2012 team as captain… finish his career on a high!
Darren (scouser) Gough was on the radio yesterday mouthing off that Giggs owes Wales big time and should play against England (because it’s the right thing to do).
Obviously oblivious to the fat Yorki is that Giggs had played in the majority of games this season and still has potentially 16 games to play till May.
Gorse Hill Red
Darren Gough can go and fuck himself as far as I am concerned. Giggsy owes nothing to anyone
Sir Ryan , nice ring to it ….. and deserved !
i didnt know a pool fan spat in giggsys face.. got a link to where i can read about it? i read on wikipedia that a pool fan spat at cantona and then tried to punch fergie..
just shows that liverpool fans are rats
@Cedars
Morning pal. Nah, I don’t know where he is yet. I am sure he won’t cheat you out of your money. He is not that kind of guy.
Superb post Scott. Thanks for tearing teams apart the last two decades Ryan. Overused word but you truly are a Legend.
@King Eric
Giles wrote.
Fantastic article as always Giles!
giggsy. a place for him already secured as one statue of our next trinity bronze statue. very down to earth guy, a decent guy who won it all in club level. yes he is unfortunate in international football scene, but that handicapped certainly will never damage his reputation as one the best footballer british isle had ever seen.
he will have more medals than shearer, or even gerrard, even after he retired!!!!
the irony of the thread giggs united’s biggest loser, yet he is the most decorated player in the clubs history
it could be worse, he could be scouse!
King Eric, totally agree with that the word legend is one of the most over used in our dictionary but Giggsy certainly is and has over the years been a joy to watch. I remember Fergie saying of him “I remember the first time I saw him. He was 13 and just floated over the ground like a cocker spaniel chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind”
That for me sayes it best.
That solo run in the FA Cup I cant remember which year, that sparks the ‘Giggs will tear you apart’ banner will forever remain in my head along with Cantona’s goal and the manner of his celebration against Wimbledon.
Legends.
Wow, no way! That’s a lot of medals! I’m sure even Liverpool and City can’t match those!
I mean Cantona’s against Sunderland. My bad.
Ah, that photo reminds me of one of the worst nights ever.
Give this man a knighthood!
(his articles always fill me with that warm tingly feeling you often get being a united fan)
Oh and Lizzy while your at it knight Giggsy now while he’s still playing, we all know he’s going to get it sooner or later so may as well get it over and done with now so we can here “And the scorer for Manchester United, number 11, Sir Ryan Giggs!”
Hear hear!
@Raizzen
The Giggs’s solo run in a FA Cup? Come on, surely you can remember the year we won the treble?
I always said that if Giggs had played for a higher profile country than Wales, he would be much more widely recognized around the world as one of the true greats. His goal against The Arse in the FA cup semi-final replay in 99 was as good as anything I have ever seen — I’ve watched it back-to-back versus Maradona’s supposed “goal of the century” and I swear there’s fuck all between them. Maradona probably had the more difficult shot at the end because he was in the process of being scythed down. But Giggs running is better, the way he swerves.
If he had played for England, England would have been vastly improved.
Off topic a bit, just got an email from the club unveiling their Newton Heath fashion range (branded hoodies, polos etc no green & gold shirts though). I was wondering how long they could resist not cashing in on the newton heath green n gold angle.
Lovin’ United – Cheers mate. It is indeed Giles not Scott. Sorry Giles mate.
Stephen – Hello mate. Is it Stephen that used to be on here regularly? If it is hows it going pal?
Gorse Hill Red – Alright pal. Is that what Goughy was saying? What a fat loathsome cunt this man is. Giggs owes Wales fuck all. Goughy makes me sick.
Nice piece Giles. It is a shame, that the likes of Giggs and the great George Best never played at a major international tournament. Still, they made up for It, at club level.
@Cedars You owe me, ya mean?
united legend > international trophies
george best was the greatest ever the fact he never made it to any big international events is the reason he’ll never be reconised as that.
England ruined Beckham and has already damaged Rooney and Ferdinand. Scholes to his credit treated the whole operation with the respect it deserves, none. Giggs is lucky to be Welsh.
La…hoo…za…her! Loser! Blood-twisting trophy-winning hairy-chested loser!
Thanks for all the near-misses Ryan!
Giggs, our winning-est losing-est wonderful Welsh winger.
Good afternoon Reds!
These legend articles leave a bittersweet taste in my mouth because it reminds me of their retirement date.I’ve become emotionally attached to Fergie,Nev,VDS,Scholes and Giggs.I almost broke down in tears when I read Nev retired(as much as I wanted him out).The thought of Fergie’s retirement makes me sad and my day spoils whenever I think of it.:(
Nice piece Giles, a very good read indeed Sir….
King Eric, Yes mate it is me, I am good pal hope all is well with you mate.
Darren Gough is a total numpty, he knows feck all about footy and support about six clubs and he is with that ginger “Liverpool is everyones second team” twat Durham so what do you expect?
Whoever it is that inherits the 11 shirt from giggs will under some pressure.
Fergie won’t retire.
He’ll sit there with the fans and the team till he’ll leave his life behind.
Who reckons theres a chance Giggsy may have something to do with the Team GB in the Olympics?
Could be a possibility.
Great article! Also excellent pic. As for Giggsy, you’re a United Legend, pls lets win the 19th this season so that Giggsy and Scholesy can say they have well and truly knocked liverpool of their fuckin’ perch! COME ON GIGGSY! COME ON UNITED!
retire the shirt
Nah we can’t retire the shirt that is a small clubs mentality like Chelsea when they retired Zolas, no player is bigger than United.
I blame Paul Bodin for Giggsy never having played in a World Cup!!
Agreed with Stephen, shirts at United should not be retired
Afternoon true reds
Quite remarkable that that the most decorated player is also the greatest loser
But that tells you everything about the man the player the enigma that is Ryan Giggs
Will their be another?
Probably not but if their ever will be I hope he wears a Manchester United shirt
Afternoon Cedars you devil you
Afternoon MG, a true red by all means
Stephen – Yeah sound mate if not a bit bored by the Internationals. Although gonna watch N Ireland tonight . Good to see you on here. Where have you been pal?
CedarsDevil
Likewise my friend – slow day again
If only Wales beat England tomorrow that will probably spice things up for a bit
MG, Internationals bore the hell out of me mate….
Just called into a show with Neville Southall as a guest. Nothing but full respect for the great man and a true legend by his own rights. I did however remind him of the 1985 FA cup final!! In fairness the Everton team of the mid 80′s always used to outplay and beat us
ur rite shirt should never be retired, dont know wat i was thinking….. ul all agree on a statue thou.
Great read. Credit to Ryan and a credit to us all.
Fully believe that the reason he is still playing is because he played so few times for Wales due to the lack of their involvement. Fully believe that early retirement from England is why we still are graced with Paul Scholes. I personally wish capello would continue to overlook Carrick for the same reason.
Onward onward United. Hope Ryan has several more years in him. Hasn’t really looked up for it the last two matches. Still better than what the competition is putting up against him though.
Good on you KE. We need all the support, we can get. Heard the press went after Don Fabio, after the way he treated Rio.
King Eric, Just working mate, Internationals are boring as fuck arn’t they? I can barely watch Englands at the best of times and what has happened to Rio I will be giving a miss, especially seeing that Rent Boy lead us out again he might start bawling if we loose cunt.
willie – No worries mate I always watch Northern Ireland and Scotland. Will Gibbo and Jonny Evans start?
Would be nice to have a half decent national team to support, mine are so shit its unreal, mind you as tiny and insignificant as we are, we always qualify for the basketball world cup… Not an easy feat coming from the biggest continent and being second only to China..
Not that I give a fuck about the sport, just something to brag about and give me some sort of national pride! lol
Great alternative perspective failure can either make u or break you in giggsy case it is a definite positive well done giggsy
With Giggsy’s hamstrings not playing in World Cups and Euro Championships have probably elongated his club career which has benefitted both player and club.
Hello mates. Interesting discussion about retiring the shirt. As I have stated before, I believe it is a really really bad idea. It is a camp idea developed from US sports franchises. It is not for United.
I have watched alot of professional sport and must say, UK professional sport is a thing above in terms of selflessness and tradition. In Cricket, no one has a number. For years, no one had an assigned number in football. The number 11 would have been handed to a winger for the day. The number 2 shirt to the RB. The idea of numbers as part of your identity really comes from US professional franchising of sport. When you walk into a US Basketball franchise with any history you will see shirts hanging from the rafters heralding some former legend of the that team. The numbers have meaning to the fans (#32 Michael Jordan, Legendary Player for the Chicago Bulls). Not even a fan, yet I remember him. But the number, 32? Not important. The player, now he was important. Statues, Images, all deserving of rememberance by the faithful. Baseball as well, Babe Ruth of the famed Yankees. Baseball teams used to ascribe meaning to the numbers as well. But this has been lost because of the numbers of shirts that have been retired.
Football is different. The number 7, 9 10 and 11 shirts are particularly recognized for what they mean to the team, as are the 4 and 5 for defense. You just can’t imagine United without a number 7 shirt for inspiration. What if the No7 shirt had been retired for Georgie Best, never to be warn by King Eric or Becks, or Owen. Retiring shirts is for money grubbing mercenaries, Not for football teams with any pride. Hang the shirt up in the rafters. But don’t take the number away from a future treasured member of the team. Give Ryan a statue, Give Ryan a place in the hall of trophies, Give Ryan a knighthood. But don’t deprive United of the number 11 shirt.
King Eric – I think Jonny is playing mate, Corry as well, as far as I know.
FletchTHEMAN
Fan-fucking-bloody-tastic post mate
Stephen – Hello mate? Good to see you back on here again. Listening to talksport the other day, I got the impression, Giggs was never loved by a section of the Welsh fans. He never turned up for many friendlies, was the reason, I think.
Cheers Willie.
Willie
Told ya I would find you…..
Cheers willie, good to be back mate. I think you are probably right Fergie was quite forceful with him about missing friendlies and would often limp off at the end of a game clutching his hamstring when there was a friendly that week!
Cedars –
With pleasure Willie my United loving buddy ………… Cannot hide from the Cedars though!
Where is smartalex?
Fucking Capello: “England boss Fabio Capello has admitted he made mistakes over the captaincy issue and that he has still not spoken to former skipper Rio Ferdinand”
This sort man management makes Roy Keane’s style look like Fergie, you strip a player of the captaincy and not tell him? Fuck me this guy is being £4m for this? Jesus give me strength.
Good evening CedarsDevil! Here I am!
Good to see you buddy, hope all is well
fuck i love this blog
Rio may be legally entitled to full benefits for a long time to come. Suing the FA, however, would end his football career. This in itself adds to his case. He does not have full recourse, without compromise. Furthermore, Rio’s loss’s of potential Image earnings as England Captain, now and later in life, are massive. His earnings as ‘the guy who thought he was still Captain’ would be reduced.
United should ban Capello to the stands for nearly every game we play, any season.
I think retiring numbers is a stupid idea. If we retired every shirt that a great player has worn… numbers
1 – 2 – 3 – 7 – 9 – 10 – 11 – 15 – 16 – 18 – 20 etc would have been and will be retired in the next few years.
Capello wanted Rio to come over to him, at the Marseille game. He couldn’t of phoned Rio, before the game? Retire Rio.
Capello actually blamed Rio for not wanting to meet him. Well sure, if I knew you stabbed me in the back, I wouldn’t want to meet you either you coward.
CedarsDevil, is it fair to enter a team of Cedars into the basketball world cup?
Or is that just a tall story from a basketcase?
It also totally shows a lack of respect to player who simply deserves better. Terry is a cunt of the highest order and has bottled England games like the make or break game against Croatia which Carson made an error and cost us. The following Saturday which was only 2 days after he played the full 90 for Chelsea.
This Country treads around this dung beetle, he shagged the other half of an England collegue who has subsequently retired from playing for his Country. This is typical of the mess which is England and Capello simply is the problem.
Costas, Don Fabio is a coward of the highest order, with a full voice I say FUCK OFF… Seems David Luiz is the next best thing since sliced bread…. What a joke
smartalex,, brilliant post as always buddy, cracked the shit out of me…..
Basketcase for sure!
After the West Ham game on Saturday, Rio should stay in London for the evening match at Brisbane Road. Showing England that while terry is the FA captain, Ferdinand is the leader of English football, the doyen of choice of millions of twitter users, and a man that an English woman could love.
Evening all….
Giggsy…..what more can anyone add to all the plaudits that this legend has accumulated over the years….a true professional, and a thoroughly decent bloke as well…
Thank you for playing your heart out for my beloved Reds
I think its stupid retiring numbers aswel. with the record of no.7′s united have and all
Fletch the man…great post and point well made mate. The whole retiring a jersey thing is done by teams in the NHL, NFL, NBA etc and is basically a way of the club saying no1 can every match the quality/ success/ greatness of the player who wore it. As mentioned retiring the number 11 would be pointless and silly for us.
‘Giggs 11′ shirts will go up in the OT store on the back wall with all the retro shirts, hanging proudly next to the Best 7 shirt.
Oh and Jordan wore 23 not 32
StScholes. Good one mate. A bit of the old dyslexia coming in!!! Ha ha ha . Like I said, not my sport. I can just see WR10, or the next Ronaldo, coming down the road holding the club over a barrel saying “I won’t sign a new contract UNLESS you throw in retiring my shirt.” Then they leave anyway. I am sure Ruud and Becks would have done! Would be disgraceful.
BTW, Anyone ever hear of Bayern, Barca, or the Virus retiring shirts? Makes me laugh the very idea of it all! Would England or Spurs retire the Number 8 shirt because Gascoigne? Maybe Landon Donovan will get his No10 retired from the LA Galaxy. Boy that would be some fine company for Sir Ryan. Let Arsenal retire the no 14. It makes more sense than us.
i know of a few english clibs having retired shirts, but cant think of any from spain off the top of my head. Chelsea, West Ham come to mind with Zola and Moore. I know Ajax retired the Cruyff shirt, and AC Milan have retired Baresi and Maldini. With AC tho they have said the number 3 shirt will be ‘un-retired’ should one onf Paolos sons play for the club in the future and that the 3 shirt can only be worn by a Maldini now.
I cant think of any Real or Barca retiring any though.
city should retire the shirt.
Smartalex. I could care less about what City do. But think a formal retirement announcement will not be required for Super Mario’s (Balotelli) shirt. Ha hah ha ha ha ha gnorrrrrt snort cough hhhhhh AAAAACKKKK. Ahhhhhh!
FletchTHEMAN, with Mario, it seems more likely that someone will burn the shirt, with him in it.
StScholes, Well that info about the rosoneri and Ajax is a real surprise. Maybe I heard this but it just didn’t register. Maldini and Cruyff, that is impressive. Not so impressed with info on Zola or Moore as those clubs couldn’t come up with a list of greats that would register on a world wide scale.
Think Maldini wore the No3 and Cruyff the number 14. Easier to retire a number over 11 if you follow my previous logic. Impressive for Maldini though.
Thanks for mentioning.
Bobby Moore was England’s last true leader. The only English captain to lift the world cup, says It all. Treated disgracefully, by the FA, after his international career ended.
It shouldn’t be Ryan Giggs, it should be SIR Ryan Giggs
Willierednut. Heck of a man and one heck of a footballer. I can see how my comment could be taken as a slight, but that was not my intent. No disrespect to Sir Bobby Moore meant. I was saying previously that United alone might come with a list of men of that stature, if not directly that accomplishment. Why not retire the no 7 shirt for Best. The no 9 shirt for Charlton. etc. Just the lads with OBEs? Just the lads with MBEs? Where does it stop really. We will all remember Bobby Moore long after we forget that West Ham retired his no 6 shirt. We will all remember Sir Ryan Giggs as well. Loosing the use of the number 11 shirt just seems a shame. Build a statue. Build a sarcophacus, put it in a shrine under the Stretty end and have it cared for night and day by lady devils order of speculative stoicism. Don’t retire the 11.
Fletch – I know you didn’t mean it as a slight mate. Agree about not retiring shirts.
Willie. What about robbo mate? A great ingerlund capt.
King Eric – No doubting Robbo was a leader, but Bobby Moore lifted the WC. That puts him above everyone else mate, for me anyway. Being from Northern Ireland, Robbo always looked better in the Red of United, than the white of England.