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Sorry But Paedo And Munich Songs Shouldn’t Be Compared

It’s that time of year again. Manchester United play Arsenal so Sir Alex Ferguson feels the need to try and placate our fans and stop us singing songs about Arsene Wenger being a paedophile by likening them to Munich chants.

I’m not for one second suggesting that United fans should call a grown man and father a paedo. It’s an awful thing to say and a horrible accusation to be thrown at someone.

It’s also pretty horrible that Everton fans wish death upon Wayne Rooney and his son Kai when they play against us. It’s also horrible that Arsenal fans sing about married man Ashley Cole being homosexual and shagging countless men. It’s not nice that Everton fans sing about Steven Gerrard’s children not being his. It’s not nice that Robbie Fowler had fans chanting at him that he was a smack head. Football fans sing horrible and often totally false things.

We can create a spectrum of horrible chants, if we feel the need, and acknowledge that some are more acceptable than others. Some are pretty vile but the offence caused to the player probably doesn’t even register. Is Gerrard going to go home and get upset because people sing that he’s not his kids’ dad? Possibly, but you would imagine he probably takes it with a pinch of salt. It’s imaginary.

But chants about the dead, real people who had their lives taken away from them, take things to a new level. It’s gone past the point of trying to wind someone up.

Whilst they don’t get aired en masse inside Old Trafford, United fans have songs about Hillsborough. Liverpool, City and Leeds fans have songs about Munich. Arsenal fans hiss to imitate the sound of the Holocaust’s gas chambers when playing Spurs, with a large Jewish fan base. These songs are sick and people in well respected positions should say something about them. This isn’t calling someone a nasty name, an embarrassing name or wishing death on someone… this is actually mocking the dead. It is using the deaths of innocent people to poke fun at their rivals.

So, whilst I applaud our manager for speaking out in the press about our fans who sing these songs, as it is rare for a manager to criticise his own fans, I abhor the fact he tries to compare calling Wenger a paedophile with laughing at the deaths of innocent people. If we’re talking scales of unacceptable behaviour, the paedo chant doesn’t come close.

“We have gone on the record several times about this disgusting chant. We don’t condone it and have appealed to fans several times in the past but to no avail. There are many chants that opposing fans find objectionable and this is certainly one to which all decent supporters should object. We will take strong action against people who chant in that way. Season tickets will be revoked and we will remove people from the ground for it.”

So, credit for trying to have our fans set the example, but why not bad mouth the truly disgraceful fans in the press, the ones who sing about Hillsborough, Munich and the Holocaust?

This country applauded Manchester City fans for respecting the one minute’s silence for the Munich dead in February 2008. I mean, wow, they actually stood there in silence on the 50th anniversary of what gives United fans, according to them, our namesake, “Munichs”. ‘Carlos Tevez is a blue, he hates Munichs’ they sing every week. Still, on that day, well done, they were silent. We then played them at their ground in November 2008 and guess what, the Munich songs were back. The aeroplane impressions were back. The paper aeroplanes were back. And nobody batted an eye-lid.

Did Fergie come out after that victory in November and drag media attention to it, in a bid to stop it? No. Did the press say anything? No. Have the press said anything about every derby day since where they’ve sang Munich? No.


It’s out of order to call a married man gay, and use being gay as an insult. It’s out of order to call a father a paedo, it’s out of order to wish death on a player’s child, but the players have thick skins and they get on with.

THIS IS NOT A JUSTIFICATION of United fans singing about Wenger being a paedo. This isn’t saying it’s ok for United to sing the Wenger songs because Arsenal fans sing about the Holocaust. The clue is in the title.

I cannot abide our manager likening the Wenger chants to songs about Munich. He is making light of the Munich songs and the Munich Air Disaster itself by bringing them to the same level.

I would much rather hear Wenger condemn the Arsenal fans who mock the Holocaust, Moyes condemn the Everton fans who sing about Kai Rooney dying and Fergie join in criticising the Hillsborough songs, and Hodgson and Mancini having a word about the Munich songs. It will never happen though. Ridiculously, it’s easier to turn a blind eye to the truly disgusting chants, but let’s make a big song and dance about Wenger’s song.

Fergie’s motive is acceptable enough but I’d far rather he tackled the bigger problem and I’d far rather he didn’t make light of Munich to achieve his goal.

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. The_Silent_One says:

    One of my dreams is to bring my Family to the UK to watch the premiership live, but as I hear more and more about vulgar chants, it does not seem to be the kind of environment that is family friendly. I don’t really feel like either having to explain these vulgar chants to my young sons nor do I wish to deal with them repeating them once they’ve heard them since they are little mimics.

  2. David Finnegan says:


    Where and from what , in the response I left, does the BBC Sport analogy come from?
    Why are you so upset because YOUR OPINION is challenged?
    Also, Why is, IN MY OPINION, in Caps? I suspect you have mistakenly assumed that I thought your post was some sort of common view or that you were speaking for a whole community?
    I think you will find, if you re-read my post, that nowhere do I suggest this blog is anything other than YOUR OPINION?

    Scott, Nowhere in your blog do you say ‘in my opinion’ the Munich song is worse than the wenger song, You make a sweeping statement that it is a fact that one song is worse than the other.

    Again, Scott, I will emphasize the point. You cannot decide what is more offensive to people, this isn’t an opinion, this is a fact.

    I simply disagree with your opinion on this matter.

    but I will also add that I do hold this site in the highest regard. And no matter, I will always respect your opinions.

  3. Scott the Red says:

    David Finnegan – A blog is about opinion. In future, assume that if a blogger makes a statement, it is their opinion.

    In my opinion, singing about the factual deaths of 23 people is worse than the fictional story of Wenger being a paedo. If Wenger actually was a paedo, whilst I still think death is more offensive, I would understand your argument.

    Regardless, I can’t start every sentence I write on a blog with ‘in my opinion’. Use some common sense and assume that is what I’m doing.

  4. David Finnegan says:


    Thank you, but I am fully aware of the definition of blogging.

    Not to labour the point, but I don’t understand why you feel it is necessary to be sarcastic and dismissive of people that disagree with your point.

    “If Wenger actually was a paedo, whilst I still think death is more offensive, I would understand your argument”
    I got to tell you Scott, I have no idea what your point is here??

    Let ask you one final question, Scott. Have you ever joined in with “We won it 3 time’s”??
    Is that song not making light of the deaths of 39 innocent people??

  5. bluemoon says:

    im a city fan, and personally dont sing along to the munich songs, i enjoy a laugh and joke among fans, and for the 363 days a year we dont play united i have no real problem with them, its always the minorities at clubs that give them a bad name (hooligans, singing about death, throwing stuff at players) points well made, but i always think they will fall on deaf ears, too many ignorant people in football, especially in the stands

  6. DOUG PATTON says:

    In Summary:

    1. Good Arsene (pedo/ephebo or not) did suffer hints in Japan with uncoerced pre-legal boys.

    2. Garbage chants/garbage minds/garbage-media = garbage-SUN-readers.

    3. As good Arsene knows, Arsenal’s current weakness is poor defence no spine. Strong 1-5-9 then watchout for Wenger’s World !


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