Manchester United forked out £30m for Dimitar Berbatov after Daniel Levy stuck to the asking price we didn’t want to pay. The downside for us was we had to pay over the odds for a player Sir Alex Ferguson really wanted, whilst Tottenham had a load of money in the bank but couldn’t do anything with it given the deal was concluded at midnight on the transfer deadline day.
The general feeling from our fans was happiness and excitement though. We had learnt that morning that City had got involved, had met the asking price we had yet to, and were offering the player far more in wages than we would be able to. For us to secure the deal made for what was probably the most exciting transfer deadline day ever for us.
However, with that £30m price tag came a huge amount of responsibility for the Bulgarian striker. Despite not even bothering to meet Mark Hughes, knowing that at the very least it would probably drive up the wages United were prepared to offer, United fans rightly had high expectations of the massively expensive player.
In his first season, he struggled to meet those expectations and struggled to win over the fans. His touch, link up play and vision were there for all to see, but for a £30m striker, you want goals, and the 9 he scored in the league were rightly not seen as a good enough return. However, for the Berbafans, it was hard to ignore that only one player in the Premiership assisted more goals than him, with creativity being a major selling point for the player.
This season, Berbatov has greatly improved on the goalscoring front and has crept in to the top ten scorers in the league. Considering his knee injury in the first half of the season and the manager’s decision to exclude him when playing 451 for certain games, this is an impressive feat.
But now that Berbatov is scoring more freely, our fans still have an axe to grind/bangwagon to jump on, and this reached its climax at Blackburn on Sunday.
So, have United got the player Sir Alex wanted? We knew we weren’t getting a Carlos Tevez type, who would chase down every loose ball, but is the Berbatov we have the player the manager wanted? He knew £30m was too much, that’s why he refused the deal all summer, but in the end paid out the money. But is he a shadow of the player he was at Spurs? Are the fans who cleverly dub him Berbaflop well within their rights?
We’re going to look at the goals and assists, like always, but there’s now the added element of what percentage of their teams’ goals the players were behind. To give you some comparison, last season Rooney scored 12, assisted 7, and that works out at 28% of Manchester United’s total goals scored. You would rightly expect Berbatov’s goal contribution at Spurs to be a lot higher than for us.
We’re also going to look at the stats of two former reds who were the hard working types, who ran non-stop for 90 minutes, who were totally adored by our fans, to see where the priorities of our fans lie in qualities they look for in a striker. How has Berbatov contributed in comparison to them and is goal contribution enough if you’re not going to run around trying to win every ball?
Dimitar Berbatov 2006/2007
Minutes: 2715
Goals: 12 (8th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 226 minutes (3 hours 46 minutes)
Assists: 11 (4th)
Goals and assists: 23
Goals scored/created: 1 per 118 minutes (1 hour 58 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 40%
.
Dimitar Berbatov 2007/2008
Minutes: 2991
Goals: 15 (5th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 199 minutes (3 hours 19 minutes)
Assists: 11 (4th)
Goals and assists: 26
Goals scored/created: 1 per 115 minutes (1 hour 55 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 39%
.
2008/2009
Minutes: 2643
Goals: 9 (25th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 294 minutes (4 hours 54 minutes)
Assists: 10 (2nd)
Goals and assists: 19
Goals scored/created: 1 per 139 minutes (2 hours 19 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 28%
2009/2010
Minutes: 1851 minutes
Goals: 12 (10th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 154 minutes (2 hours 34 minutes)
Assists: 6 (22nd)
Goals and assists: 18
Goals scored/created: 1 goal per 103 minutes (1 hour 43 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 23%
.
Alan Smith 2004/2005
Minutes: 2038
Goals: 6 (44th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 340 minutes (5 hours 40 minutes)
Assists: 4 (35th)
Goals and assists: 10
Goals scored/created: 1 goal per 204 minutes (3 hours 24 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 17%
.
Carlos Tevez 2007/2008
Minutes: 2685 minutes
Goals: 14 (9th)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 192 minutes (2 hours 72 minutes)
Assists: 7 assists (18th)
Goals and assists: 21
Goals scored/created: 1 per 128 minutes (2 hours 8 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 26%
.
Carlos Tevez 2008/2009
Minutes: 1856
Goals: 5 (53rd)
Goals per minute: 1 goal per 371 minutes (6 hours 11 minutes)
Assists: 3 (74th highest in the league)
Goals and assists: 8
Goals scored/created: 1 per 232 minutes (3 hours 52 minutes)
Percentage of team’s goals scored/created: 12%
.
Conclusion: The number of goals Berbatov has scored and created this season is of a higher rate than any of his four years in England, higher than both Carlos Tevez’s years at United as well as Alan Smith’s first year at United (and only year he played as an out and out striker).
Berbatov has scored/assisted almost a quarter of a goals this season, despite not playing anywhere near as much, and scored/assisted over a quarter of our goals last season when competing with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and Tevez.
Looking at this season, Berbatov has scored or created a goal for United almost once a game, (1 per game + 13 minutes), but that doesn’t get any credit, whilst Tevez needed almost four hours to score or assist a goal last season, and Smithy needed three and a half hours.
Interesting then that Berbatov is considered a flop and is booed by sections of our support, whilst Carlos Tevez and Alan Smith were adored.
What does that tell us about the standards of some United fans? Running around and looking to be working hard is a more admirable quality in a striker than scoring and creating goals. Great.
If Berbatov cost us £10m I honestly don’t think there would be a problem but that price tag is the worst thing that could ever happen to him. I have long been a defender of Berbatov but I am now beginning to side with those who think we should get rid. He is never going to prosper in the increasingly hostile environment our fans are creating, so maybe it is time he got out and joined a club where he could be adored, the way we adored Tevez and Smith. The manager hasn’t adapted our tactics to suit Berbatov, the way he has done for Ruud van Nistelrooy, Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney, so maybe that tells us all we need to know. The manager wanted him enough to eventually pay out £30m but not enough to take a risk in trying to find tactics which will compliment him, so there’s not a lot Berbatov can do about it. Against top sides, the manager is worried we’ll be overrun in midfield, a possible indication of the lacking of world class quality in this position, and the Bulgarian pays the price. If we had a Roy Keane-Paul Scholes at their peak combination, would the manager feel the need to play five midfielders and just one striker? Regardless, the press fancy his time to be up and if he leaves now he can go down in the history books as a Manchester United flop, a title I’m sure Levy will be happy with, knowing his price tag always ensured it would be given. But it all could have been so different.
I wonder how much Newcastle would want for Smithy eh? Berb out, Smith in? Or better still, let’s sign that Karim Benzema, who turned us down in the summer to kiss the Real Madrid’s badge, and then our fans will be happy.
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If we are using Berbatov’s statistics at Tottenham then let’s compare Berbatov’s stats with Tevez this season. I think their would only be one winner there. I just don’t get how you can defend Berbatov.
scott i have to thank you for all the the effort you put into the articles
respect mate keep it up!
always a pleasure to read
I wish Berba had made it, all that talent and the desire to play for UTD, on the one hand I can see the arguments for playing more to his strengths but on the other is it unreasonable to expect a senior player with bags of experience to step up when needed. He hasnt done enough and he probably knows it, time to go
all of todays newspapers claim that berbs is on his way out, and we are goin in for Benzema and Silva
GREAT ONE Scott!! I am 100% behind Dimi! I’ve been defending him thuout the seasons against unfaithful Utd fan! I can’t believe I av to do such thing against someone who supported the same team as mine!! After that Rovers dissepointment they made me evn sicker!! Up to the point…where I ask them…”Which club is Dimitar playing now??!! Can u recall???” Its really a sickening!
Its plain to see that we are making players like Berba and Neville scapegoats for our poor season…I agree it is a bit unfair..Neville who I thought had a fantastic game against Blackburn…that shot which be blocked was vital…I can see where your coming from Scott but honestly I don’t think Berba fits into the United system…Its not that he is a bad player…infact I don’t think United have ever had a player with Berba’s touch and class…infact even against Blackburn that turn that he did in the middle of the park to get away from the Blackburn player just oozed class(reminded me of Zidane).
Even the magnificent Rudd was shipped out just cause he didn’t fit the new system…I think the biggest problem with Berba is that he’s nearing 30…if he was like a 25 year old then everyone would not be so critical of him…Fergie can’t help but think of getting something for him at his age…because in a couple of years it will be difficult to even get maybe 10 mill for him….
Personally I wouldn’t mind having Berba in the side but we need a proper out and out goal getter…who would fit the United system…Dzeko or maybe even Benzema(although I hate him for rejecting us, I think he has learn’t his lesson)….GGMU
@AlphaRS
Scott did not defend Berbatov, he is just showing facts. Facts that people are blind to see, and out to put him up as scapegoat for our problems. Fact is that our problems are not with Berbatov, but with the midfield. We did not lose our games because Berbatov missed chance after chance after chance against Bayern and Chelsea, it was because our midfield was went missing.
After how Tevez behaved, I am bewildered how some fans here still hold him in high regards. He can score 100 goals and I will still regard him as crap. And I believe there are many here who thinks the same as me. So lets not get started with that
That last paragraph by Scott is right on the money. For the record though, even if leaves this summer, I won’t consider him a flop. That’s too harsh. I prefer to judge players on something other than their transfer fees.
If so many people are throwing shit towards berbatov, I will feel better if he goes to another club and throw the shit back in the face of the wankers.. this is a view I am warming more and more to… at the end of the day I would like him to see more of him in a utd shirt though, but anyways this is SAF’s decision, who is a big berba fan by the way..
@s18
Just because I have a differing opinion on Berbatov than you do does not make me an unfaithful United fan. I go to the games and I support the team Berbatov included throughout the 90 mins but I am free to express my opinion of him as long as it does not have a detrimental effect on the team performance. I do not condone booing any United players but I can certainly see their point of view.
These Berbatov articles bring a smile to my face.
@ BabyFaceAssassin – that turn that he did on the half way line you mean?? When he was actually in the way of our midfielders? A little turn like that looks good on Showboat on Soccer AM and that’s all, it might have created a bit of space for him but he was about 50 yards from goal! On Sunday he was infuriating, waving his arms and expecting everyone to make runs here, there and everywhere, what’s wrong with giving the simple pass, first time! He slows most attacks down by taking forever to prick about on the ball!
Blackburn had an 18 year old centre half playing and a half fit Ryan Nelson beside him but Berbatov would rather flick the ball around in midfield than actually play in a forward position! I would love for him to actually just stay up in the last third of the pitch when we’re on the attack!
@Marq
Of course he is defending Berbatov. That is what this whole article is about isn’t it?
Torres has better stat’s than Rooney. Does that make him a better player? No it doesn’t.
You are quite correct in saying the midfield went missing because it is glaringly obvious as it was in the Champions League Final 2008 that they are not strong enough in midfield. You are also right in saying that Berbatov did not miss chance after chance because he wasn’t on the end of any chances because as a forward he was never in the position to take advantage of any. Same against Blackburn.
Tevez acted a complete twat. But while he was at United he was hard working AND scored some vitally important goals to contribute to the success at United. I don’t hold him in hign regards now but I won’t begrudge him the impact he had on the team while he was with us just because he acted a twat in the end.
If Tevez scores 100 goals you would still see him as crap. I fail to see the logic in that.
you’re becoming pathetic with berbatov defence…you’re getting desperate
he’s a fucking joke
Great to see another fair and considered opinion on Berba from you Scott!
Like him or not, get behind the guy.
Personaly im with Berba , he had a bad day at Blackburn but so did others. Price tag well we paid it .He will live up to it Either by him finding a way to fit in , or SAF adjusting tactics to accomadate him. If im not mistaken Actim last season had him 3rd out of 100 in its rankings !!! he didnt just Land in that spot. Our press is S*** they would destroy Mother Threasa to make headlines . Lets just keep the faith , He wants to be here , Not a Money grabbing Teve£ .
I think Berbatov is a class player. he created plenty for other players. But consider the forward we had right now, he is at the club at the wrong time. Imagine he had lots of quality players around him, he could had easier time. But our midfield is not a strong area with Hargreaves, Anderson out injured, Scholes, Giggs can’t run and create much, Valencia and Nani will surely be tired running back to defend and having to create something when there is no quality upfront with Rooney, Owen injured and no other strikers to pair with.
This in turn makes Berbatov our first and only hope striker in the team. Which is why we need more goals than in the past as there is no quality upfront to pair with at the moment. There is many area we are weak in the team. The central area is the most concern for us as we can’t dominated games much than we could have like.
I really feel sorry for Berbatov as last season he had plenty of support from Tevez and Ronaldo who are of world class player and Anderson who plays some part in midfield. A year gone, Ronaldo and Tevez leaves, Scholes, Giggs a year older and Valencia is not a goal scorer consider he had to run back to defend for Neville who is outpaced most of the times. Evra playing more matches than others thus becoming tired and no replacement for him. Nani playing well but consider his crossing and having no striker at the moment in the box other than Valencia against Blackburn, no way he could cross.
I believe Berbatov could be much efficient in teams like Spain and Italy where they play much lesser pace in England.
“I do not condone booing any United players but I can certainly see their point of view.” you can’t seat on 2 chairs mate.
AlphaRS and CROoney – I’m not even defending Berbatov any more, I’m trying to work our fans out. Why did our fans worship Tevez last season, despite him only scoring 5 goals? Why did our fans love Smith, despite him only scoring 6 goals?
Berbatov has scored/created pretty much one goal per game, in terms of the time he has been on the pitch this season, but because he hasn’t run around like a headless chicken in doing so, we want to get rid.
@Marq
Completly agree about getting our midfield right this I think is our biggest problem which should have maybe been resolved at the start of last season…We just dont has any creativity from the middle…its sometime really very irritating…we can really be predictable…just need one man there Goucuff end of story…keep the rest of midfield in place…it also looks like Scholes will retire gracefully…
I really like Berba and want him to do well…but we just cant wait for things to happen..so I think Fergie
will go for a goal scorer in the summer…
Also against the Blackburn game…if Valencia has taken that chance…one on one with the keeper…would we have then not praised Berba for his vision?
@Corea
Ofcourse I can. I don’t agree with booing him but I can see why fans feel the need to do so.
Because they think he is shite and believe that is the best way to let him know.
I think he is shite but chose not to boo him but support him and every other player wearing a United shirt.
So I do understand their point of view.
I never rated him at spurs or wanted us to sign him! I never thought he was our type of player n I desperately wanted him to prove me an others that we were wrong. Time to be ruthless SAF n ship him and a couple of others out the door. The old guard though over the hill n not having the impact they did should be kept for the experience and to continue the legacy and traditions thru the ranks whether it’s management in some capacity or ambassadors.
Alpha_rs
Let me compare Berbatov to Tevez when they was playing for worse clubs then..
ALL competitions:
berbatov 06/07:
43 games, 23 goals, 15 assists: involved in 38 goals..
berbatov 07/08:
42 games, 22 goals, 13 assits: involved in 35 goals..
Tevez:
09/10
34 games, 28 goals, 7 assists: involved in 35 goals
wonder how many penalites that is though.. how many penalties has tevez scored this year? cant remember berba took all spurs penalties
@AlphaRS
Tevez is crap, no logic needed, same reason why people blame Berbatov for our team’s failing
Stats can be made say a thousand things … it’s clear he’s a great player .. just not a player suited to Utd’s style .. Utd were never a sit back team and we’re that when he Plays I’m afraid …
It’s time for Fergie to sell at a loss and invest in a player who’s up to the high spead Utd pace … Benzema picked RM ahead of Utd .. I don’t think he should come to Utd because his first season wasn’t one he’d want to remember. You only get one chance to turn down Utd and Benzema had his chance … move on and next player please …
back to the point .. Berbatov must move on … simple when you think about it ..
Will you just let it go? We’ve had 2 or 3 days of Berbatov based blogs, everyone has nailed their colours to their masts. All this new story will do is give us another day of “he is class” / “he is shite” comments.
Im not sure why you bring Alan Smith into it either, your comment at the end stating that “Berb out Smithy in would make our fans happy”, where did you get that out of?
As for your stats, like someone else asked for yesterday, why not list the games where his assists and goals come from, that might put a true shine on his contributions, and maybe it will sway people on him one way or the other?
I personally dont think Berbatov fits in, but I dont like reading the derogatory comments that get written about him on here either. He’s quality, he doesnt fit in to what Fergie is trying to do – end of story.
You’re like a dog with a bone regarding Berbatov Scott, and thats grand, you like the player and think he didnt get a fair whack, and its your blog and you can write whatever you want, but I think you’re just stoking the fire by repeatedly writing these Berbatov articles.
it is very clear that it is harder to succeed at utd than city or spurs.. something you can see of tevez 5 goals last term.. here they have more defensive duties and everyone can see how much time berba spends in midfield.. do you think it is because he wants to, or because SAF want him to? I think SAF has pretty much control of what his players do.. therefore I suggest it is very unnessecary to compare berba this year to this years tevez
I am useless but i can’t help myself.
If we are talking about the Blackburn game and the way Berba didn’t try to get into the box. You can count on me watching his every step in every game he plays for us. Every time he got into the box he waved to the plays to play him but every single time he was ignored. Every single time.
Look at how Scholesy and Giggsy sometimes link with him. they know his qualities and they understand him better than anyone else. But they all are something from the past and i think Berba pays price for this. will also be interesting to find out the amount of distance Berba covers during the football game.
i think we should give him another season to prove himself.nani has got another chance and he is shit…..he couldnt even get past salgado on sunday who was made a show of by gareth bale just a few games ago and we all know how bad bale is.
stats dont prove anything! you can judge a players performance by theit stats. last season when rooney wasnt contributing to the goals, his stats wouldnt have been half as admirable as ronaldos… yet people can rooney is a better player. its all round contribution to the game, not just what they do on paper. we fucked up selling tevez and buying berbatov why cant people just admit it and swallow some pride instead of always admittign fergie does the right thing. yes hes a legend but he isnt perfect and is entitled to make errors, which this one has proven. if the stories about buying benzema are right then brilliant cos he can play wide in a 4 5 1, and thats the type of striker we need. not someone who is ‘creative’ when theres noone to create for. rooney is creative, and as he has proven by playjng up top on his own, he doesnt need berb to get the best out of him.
any body remember the days when we had hargreaves scholes and carrick centre mid? rooney ronaldo tevez up front? champs league winners? we were unbeatable, and look how our team has changed since then????? downhill unless it gets sorted? no defending our lack of big game victories. theres no coincidence, and i love united but im not gonna defend them just because our stats prove otherwise.
But look at who he scored against?
2 x Bolton
Fulham
Everton
pompey
Burnley
2 x Wigan
hull
Blackburn
Sunderland
Stoke
Not good enough in the big games – like Liverpool away or Chelsea at home when we really needed him.
scott – mate…because of the things he did the previous season..because of scoring against liverpool, because of scoring with the last touch of the game against spurs, againts blackburn, because of his magnificient brace against wigan, because of him putting to bed roma encounter, because of his opener against chelsea, because of his equalizer against lyon that saw us through, because of his goal against porto…because of the importance of the goals, because of his style …his style made defenders into mistakes and it resulted with opponents attacks being reduced and their chance limited…because of him forming the magnificient trio which brught the best out of 3 players involved
and we don’t like berbatov because we could do without him and he’s only scored a few goals that brought us the points…most of his goals were second or third of the match already won …we don’t like him because he has failed to score against anyone ranked above 8th this season…or 7 th…we don’t like him because he didn’t provide what he was brought for…and that’s europe – he’s failed to score in the entire CL campaign
cheers…
btw…tevez scored 5 and he 9 – wooooow – what a difference
btw, tevez scored 15
Goldenballs – if he played 90 minutes in the big games, then fair enough, but Chelsea at home is the only big game he has been given 90 minutes in and the whole team played like shit for most of that.
Corea – Why wasn’t Berbatov in the box? Because the rest of the players couldn’t get the ball to him when he was? How many balls in to the box were there on Sunday? 3?
North Stand Tier 3 – Give it a rest? If I want to blog about Berbatov, I will do. If you don’t want to read it, don’t come here. How is he supposed to score against top opposition if the manager doesn’t play him against top opposition? I thought the Smith comment was fairly obvious – he was never booed by our fans, despite rarely scoring, so maybe that is what we prefer? We like strikers who run around a lot and put in tackles, but who don’t score many goals? So fine, get rid of the striker who scores goals who we don’t like and bring back the striker who didn’t score goals who ran around a lot and who we like.
oh and because of his magnificient back heel equalizer against wigan
stats doesnt tell anything? goals is what football is about.. therefore stats are more important than someone here suggests…
stats about how much a player runs, passes complete, fouls, yellow cards is less important though
@Scott the Red
Alright pal. From a personal point of view I did not worship Tevez but I understood the impact he made at United the 2 years he was with us. Your statistics I believe do not tell the whole story. Tevez scored some vitally important goals against Liverpool, Liverpool, Tottenham, and Blackburn to name a few which contributed to the success of the team. Also his workrate was exceptional. He chased lost causes, put pressure on defenses, and forced them in to making mistakes. The same job Rooney was doing incidentally.
It’s like saying Torres is better than Rooney because he has better stats even thought Rooney’s overall input in to the team completely dwarfs than of Torres. But how do we quantify work rate and overall input in to the team to justify Rooney is better than Torres.
Rooney had to change his style of play in 4-3-3 too. He used to drop deep and go out wide until it clicked that he had to remain the focal point and remain central to be as effective as required. He has time on his side to adapt. Unfortunately Berbatov doesn’t. He just doesn’t fit in to 4-3-3.
@AlphaRS –
“Because they think he is shite and believe that is the best way to let him know.” – oh yeah i understand. it is the best way to let him know. of course. i don’t even dare to think this raises their ego.
Berba doesn’t seem to give it all for the team thats why. When you saw Smithy come on he was like one of the fans looking desperate to win at all costs. Same with Tevez! It isn’t just the running that makes the fans love them it is the desire to win something that Berbas attitude doesn’t show. Also with Tevez he use to score goals for us when we needed them, think it was Stoke when he scored the winner granted i think Berba set him up but still I just can’t remember scoring a winner against Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Milan or anyone like that. He can’t just rely on Rooney to do that anymore whihc we seem to be doing. I don’t hate Berbatov at all but just don’t think he is what we need anymore. We need a natural goal scorer who can come on and score a winner himself rather than set someone up. Also don’t think Carrick is pulling his weight at the moment. I’m not a fan who thinks the worst and we will finish 5th or anything stupid, also think with selling Ronaldo last year and finish 3rd or 2nd is good but we’re United we expect more. Think we need to buy in the summer with an attacking Midfielder a must! Not sure what others think however one thing we can all agree on is We’ll Never Die! LUHG
@Scott, A football matches is good to look on stats but sometimes it is deceiving. I think Tevez score goals for us in a match which is so critical like the score is draw at the moment and he score and win the game for us. Berbatov score less of the deciding goal which in turn makes fans remember he did nothing much compare to tevez. Berbatov score goals when the score line is 2-0, 3-0 when we are winning which makes no much difference than tevez who score when the score is draw and we needed a goal to win.
He make bigger impact and our never say die spirit. I feel Berbatov is bring more bad impact to the team with his whinging and moaning at team mates. You look at the Blackburn match, he ask this and that player to move here and there with his hand, you see him berating all team mates and getting slow to walk up and blaming this and that. Our fans has eyes and see it even our team mate who are chasing the game and not wanting to kick the ball out to let him had treatment.
He is bringing our sympathy to him and not him bring confidence to us. With tevez running non stop you feel that he could create something or perhaps win the game for us even with one minutes left because he never gives up. Whereas with Berbatov, i give up in the first half as i can’t stand him doing a central midfielder job and no one in the box. This is not his fault because our team central area is not strong and no one to support Berbatov upfront.
@Scott the Red – he got into the box and into some good positions but he was ignored.
i thought united fans were better than to boo our own players…i’m really disappointed with the fans at that blackburn game that decided to boo him. Berba oozes with class, it’s such a shame owen is out injured because him and berba would have been a great partenrship as we saw in pre-season.
AlphaRS – Why is Scott still defending him, com’on mate he hasn’t murdered anyone for fooksake. Most of us agree, that Berba’s time is running out, but for the life of me i can’t see why he’s hated so much.
@CROoney
Its ironic for your name, but care to tell me how many games it took for Rooney to find the net in europe this season?
@sprite
Hadn’t thought of it that way that Berbatov took all Tottenham penalties.
I am still interested to know this seasons stats for Berbatov at United and Tevez at City.
@AlphaRS,
“Ofcourse I can. I don’t agree with booing him but I can see why fans feel the need to do so.
Because they think he is shite and believe that is the best way to let him know.
I think he is shite but chose not to boo him but support him and every other player wearing a United shirt.
So I do understand their point of view.”
Absolute tripe. Berbatov haters are full of it particularly because he is singled out for criticism by the glory hunting section of United supporters (unfortunately, quite a large crowd) even if the ENTIRE TEAM plays like crap. Against Blackburn, Berbatov should have had an assist but Valencia made a major screw up in front of goal from an absolutely beautiful pass from Berbatov. I suppose Valencia’s miss was Berba’s fault to? All people like you understand is goals, you don’t appreciate the quality he shows on the field when he is on top form, you only understand United in the final third, which is an area Fergie rarely has Berbatov playing.
I’ve always found that people like the glory hunting section of United supporters _always_ aim all of their rage at one “simple” solution.. in this case Berbatov, ignoring the fact that we are incredibly unlucky not to still be on top of the league after both Chelsea games didn’t go our way for controversial reasons, and the fact that we were plagued by injury for a huge part of the season. Bottom line, Ferguson trusts Berbatov, has a role for him to play in the team and gets him to play in it, and doesn’t give a flying f**k what you or any other Berbatov hater has to say about it.
The things I’ve seen Berbatov blamed for in comments on this blog alone are absolutely ridiculous, whereas when English players like Neville play like absolute crap they don’t get booed… and they shouldn’t. No United fan should boo a United player. You either get behind your team or get off the bandwagon. Plenty of clubs out there like City and Chelsea where its common for fans to hate and boo their own players for you lot to choose from.
None of you Berba basher who posts here has actually posted any answer to Scotts answer.. why were Smith and Tevez adored, while berba is not.. what if tevez or smith had failed to scored in the last 2(!) games they had played as a lone striker.. would they have been booed?
Whats annoys me about berbatov is he very rarely creates a yard for himself to have a shot at goal.
Shift it and hit it like most strikers try to do. On sunday he got into some good positions against blackburn but looked for the pass instead of having a crack at goal.
Has anyone else noticed this about him or am i analysing him to much?
@Corea
Well for whatever reason they do it then it is up to them. I am nobody to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t be doing. My opinion is that it is wrong and therefore I will never partake in booing our own players. They pay their money for the ticket and they are welcome to their opinons.
@willierednut
I know he hasn’t murdered anyone. Personally I don’t hate him. I’m just trying to justify why he isn’t right at United. Class or not. Although I’m still trying to figure out how fancy flicks are class when we need goals in vital games and they just aren’t coming….?
So Stu, that’s the point I’m getting at – you would rather United have a striker who “gave their all for the team” and didn’t score very often to a striker who didn’t “give their all for the team” but scored more goals? From your strikers, it is more important that they “give their all” than it is score goals?
From a midfielder, fair enough, but why is this a quality we require from our strikers?
Marq
i hope you’re taking a piss in comparing roo to berbatov…ESPECIALLY their performances in europe…by the time berba scores his next goal in europe it will have passed almost 2 full years…
I agree the worst thing that happened to him was the price tag. if you compare delivery to price it is not much in his favour. unfortunatelly. I wouldn`t mind him to play in those games where he can benefit from the tactics with 2 strikers etc, but then it means he is the 30m sub for crucial games which look weird at least. or can we use him as the 3rd striker in case we buy someone? e.g. Villa, Benzema? Villa and Rooney upfront or Benzema and Rooney upfront and Berba on the bench? I am not sure. The price tag is the problem. I think also for sir Alex
big teams he looks so so poor
the thing i don’t get is why people say berbatov is lazy, he got that tag while he was at spurs and has been plagued by it since. If you watch berbatov this year he’s been harrying defenders more than rooney has, i’d like to see stats the distances berba runs in matches because i reckon it would be better than rooney this season.
Scott
If you really want to understand then you should invite people with constructive views to comment rather than ostensibly aiming an article at those who scapegoat or have an axe to grind. Striking down the points that extremists make may be childs play but drawing them into the blog isn’t desirable.
Next, I didn’t think much of Alan Smith and I condemned the chanting over Fergusons speach. I didn’t want us to pay 25m for Tevez, much less 47m, although Ronaldo leaving wasn’t known at the time.
To tell the truth there has been enough debates and comments in the past that fleshed out the issues and rather than starting a new topic which essentially amounts to pro Berbatov propoganda why not look over some of the old discussions to see how criticisms of Berbatov have built up over time.
If Berbtatov would score 2-3 important goals (like Tevez or Owen have done), the fans would start loving him. I really believe this would kick-start his career with United.
Without a doubt Berbatov has got class. His lacking pace really shouldn’t be a problem with partners like Rooney, Owen, Diouf und Hernandez in the future. I also believe that Berbatov would flourish if we would stick to playing 4-4-2 and he would get a few games alongside Rooney. But due to injuries (Anderson, Hargreaves) and form (Scholes, Carrick, Giggs) we can’t dominate games with only two central midfielders at the moment.
@Dela
“Absolute tripe” – Wow it is only a opinion mate.
I try and give valid opinions and it’s absolute tripe. I can’t stand this kinda crap.
scott . there are some things that stats don’t show you…it’s the importance of the goals and the quality of those…btw why not comparing tevez’ first season ? what ? he didn’ t score 19 goals in one season did he ?like i said, mate it’s getting pathetic..also tevez clicked perfectly with the team and YOU COULD PLAY HIM IN THE BIG GAMES BECAUSE HE WOULD DELIVER
@CROoney
My point is, since it also took Rooney so long to find the net in europe this season, surely the only constant would be our midfield? And not because Berbatov played badly.
@CROoney
Why hasn’t SAF played Berbatov in big games if he is class and so fantastic? Says it all really.
Berbalovers can try and explain that one.
CROoney – Berbatov has made a handful of appearances in Europe this season and has only played for 90 minutes once, so that point is redundant.
AlphaRS – I mentioned that point in this article. Did you even read this or just start slagging him off as soon as you saw Berbatov’s name in the title lol.
it’s almost like man untied are competing only in the EPL…like no other competition exists when comparing berba to tevez…bertba is not class….at all…even bent and jones score 2nd or 3rd goals against the likes of hull and stoke which have no relevance whatsoever…he was paid for at least scoring against those..that’s the minimal what he can do
@brett1985
Think I’m gonna give up posting. Moderate views getting ripped apart again.
It’s just getting stupid now.
First of all, a disclaimer, I really like Berbatov and his style of play. I hope he stays because he is a United player and I always support United players.
But at the same time, stats really doesn’t show the whole picture. While Tevez’ running could be seen as unnecessary it put pressure on the opponents and made them make mistakes that could open for a goal opportunity, get the ball back or simply a bad clearance. That is really valuable to have and that is something that can’t be shown with stats.
Mate, the one reason and the most important ones is Tevez and Smith bring confidence and hope with our never say die spirit whereas Berbatov brings petulance and moaning with frustration and this demoralize the whole team. This is the most important reason why other fans loves tevez and Smith. I play football in my country and i know what influence can bring to a team.
@AlphaRS – i can’t slate a person if i haven’t played a single game at this level. they saw something and they say they saw it clearly and they feel like they are entitled on singling one player out ?
It is the lowest point that one can reach in his life. We are all humans, we are all egoists. Some of us fiight the monsters inside other become monsters themselves. They pay their money ? What is money ? For some giving 500 pounds hire a sitter for their parents is enough but can you imagine some of them sitting with them 24/24 when their parents are ill?
Everything is relative in this life.
“Berbatov has made a handful of appearances in Europe this season and has only played for 90 minutes once, so that point is redundant.”
and why is that Scott…because he’s just not good enough…wtf are you talking about…no one is forcing him out of the team except of his inability to cope with high quality/speed footie…jeez
it’s not like he’s warming the bench to an inferior player like tevez, no…saf prefers one legged roo to him…says it all really
If sir fergie preferred a 50% fit wayne rooney over a fully fit berbatov against the germans then i think that says a lot about what he thinks berbatov can produce when it matters
why hasnt Berba played in big games? because he likes to play with one up top and he wants 3 midfielders for extra security and possession. nothing against Berba as a player but he wont fit into the system.
hesselbom
excactly mate…plus berbatov ‘s style has REDUCED THE NUMBER OF OPPOSITION ATTACKS
and that reduces the goal scoring opportunities
CROoney – Like I just said to AlphaRS who asked the same question, I have suggested answers to that in the article. Did you even bother to read it or just start slagging Berbatov off straight away? The bandwagon isn’t ignorant, surely?
if we had tevez im sure we would be top and in the champs league. i used to love berb but he clearly cant perform in big games, anyone who goes to ot see’s him struggle unless some 3rd choice bolton centre back is marking him, has great touch and passing but not a threat no one gets up of there seat when he gets hold of the ball on edge of the box like we did with rooney, ronaldo, tevez etc. no one wanted tevez to fail and berb to prosper but he just can not handle good defenders and teams. one point against blackburn one person had the ball in the box and he was walking around about 15 yards from the edge of the box behind blackburn players making no effort to get into the box…..explain why???
Even after everything that happened with Tevez last season, i don’t hate the guy. As i’ve said before, Tevez was brillant for us and scored big goals in the double winning season, but the abuse Berba gets i’ll never understand.
The past is gone, Only Scousers dwell on the past!
How about the present, you can go on about whos better tevez or berbatov, off the pitch and with the media obviously Berbatov is the player you would rather have in a united shirt due to tevez’s constant ranting on, but its on the pitch that counts.
THIS SEASON
Tevez :
Goals 22 (28 in all Comps)
Appearances 30 (37 in all Comps)
Notables
Winner against Chelsea
Equalised against Bolton to get a draw
Hatrick against Blackburn
2 goals away at chelsea, equaliser and put them 3-1 up (city won 4-2)
Hatrick against wigan
Berbatov:
Goals 12 (12 in all comps)
Apps 29 (39 in all comps)
Notables (goals that make a fucking difference)
first against stoke (finished 2-0 to United)
Equaliser against Sunderland 1-1 (finished 2-2)
First against Blackburn
First against Burnley
Started us off against everton (lost 3-1)
As you say Scott stats say it all…
If the question you ask is who should we have held onto? the answer is tevez due to the individual performances of each player…
Its not Berbatov isnt right for United, its that United isnt right for berbatov (our lone striker formation anyway) Get Berbatov in a team along side rooney with a decent midfield and he’d out do tevez any day…
hesselbom – i meant tevez’s style
at scott – yes i read that , i’ve heard them all, but the fact is that SAF can play roo, he could have played tevez in the big matches but he just can’t and won’t play berbatov
Berbatov just isn’t an adaptable player, as Alpha says… he plays only one way… and unless we geared the whole team up to play for him, he won’t do us much good. Last player we had like that was RVN and while he was with us it was pretty much only him doing the goal scoring. That really was a miserable time, as one thing about United is that the whole team contributes goals and since he left we’ve been terrific on that score.
Now… I don’t give two hoots about Tevez… he did a job for us, true enough, but I couldn’t stand the nasty little creep and after a pretty crappy year last year in terms of goal return I was glad to be shot… just a shame he didn’t go further than Eastlands. That said, he is a far more productive TEAM player than Berbatov is. One or two nice touches and showboats cannot make up for what is quite frankly a disappointing goal return from somehow who has played a high proportion of our games this year.
And lets face it, we’ve always had trouble finding the right strike partnerships at this club… now and again we get lucky and find one that works, but not really since Cole and Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer have we had that and quite frankly, it seems that Rooney plays better on his own in a pseudo 4-3-3 than in a 4-4-2 anyway.
@CROoney
You don’t seem to understand why we play 451? It is not because Berbatov is not good enough to get into the starting 11
Scott, I did state in my post that its your blog and you can write what you want, so dont throw your toys out of the pram. My point was (and has been proved in the last 15 minutes since) that all this story will do is give us the exact same arguement as we had the last 3 days, you could copy and paste some of the comments yesterday on different stories and put them in here.
Just cause I read your blog most days doesnt mean I have to agree with everything you write – a point that some other posters on here would do well to remember. You’re making it look that anyone that doesnt feel Berbatov is all he was menat to be is now anti United and not ‘true’ supporters, and that aint the case. Me and my mates live and breath United, so just cause I doubt the contributions Berbatov has made over the last two seasons doesnt mean Im some bandwagon jumping twat, and I certainly wont have my dedication questioned by some posters on here who are clearly following United the last few years only. We’re here to debate, not all link arms, agree on everything, smile and day dream. The posters on here that are backing Berbatov (which is their right) seem to think they have the moral high ground cause all your blogs are painting that picture – how dare we disagree with Scott! Is it a proper debate you are looking for when you write, with comments from the head and the heart, or do you want a zombie nation who hang on your every word and are afraid to speak out?
this is the people’s reaction when you said you don’t like tevez and ronaldo remember scott? only this time they hate the player….I don’t know anymore whether to love him or hate him.
When I think about players like Smith and Tevez I always remeber the saying ” Its not the size of dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog”
Thats the only explantion I have, Berba comes with a huge price tag(size) and doesn’t compete with the fight that Tevez and Smith bought…Hence this uproar against Berba…it has nothing to do with his contribution to the team…
Why would yout ditch Rooney on the bench, when he is on the form of his life, who has finally adjusted his style to play in a 4-5-1, and pick a half fit, just back from injury Berbatov instead?
Hatrick against Blackburn
2 goals away at chelsea, equaliser and put them 3-1 up (city won 4-2)
Hatrick against wigan
lol,says it all
Marq – do not underestimate my understanding of the game
the thing is that he can’t play for us against the big teams in a 442, 452,424 system…he’s incapable to cope with us…i know all about our midfield and it doesn’t bother real players ( rooney )
Oh. Thats interesting. Using abuse and pointing finger at other bloggers is surely the best way to prove your point. Classless.
correcrtion – 4-5-1
North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
I’ll reply for Scott on this one. Don’t like what you read? Don’t read it.
Bye Bye
CRooney, I think you might be on to something there with your 452 system!!! Dont think Van Der Saar would be too happy about it though…ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!
berbatov is riquelme and tevez is fletcher…one is a shocker with a great touch and the other is just a winner who doesn’t care about being hit or against who he’s playing
roflomg CROoney!
How many did berbatov score against blackburn?
No, Scott, I can’t agree on you this one!
May be his current record is better than ever before.. But It is no way near good enough for United.. Let’s think about spur is a team to aim 4th sport is a max.. his record is good enough for Spur.. for us is wining trophies… Huge Gap there!
Rooney is only one Top level striker right now, we need another one for our world famous club .. Playing alongside Barba means asking rooney to cover for two … it’s not fair on rooney..just to rely on him so much!!
if we keep the player perform just Barba’s rates, we will be Team like spur not Manchester United.. clearly..!
So which one I rather choose, no need to answer.. he must better be off.. sooner than later… I ain’t looking back on what if … about Tevez.. Scum left.. we’ve moved on!!
@North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
lol…wouldn’t mind that extra man in midfield…maybe he will messi in check next season…
@Scott the Red
I was hoping you would comment on the response I gave you before that actually.
And yes I did read your article.
Well done Marq, Id say that took thought. My point to Scott initially is that we’re going over old ground with this issue, we’ve all made our feelings clear, all he’ll get is a heated debate that will turn into abuse being thrown and people walking off the blog. So Marq, climb out of Scotts arse there when you get a chance and try form your own opinion on something – it aint that tricky.
Scott I applaud your honesty and effort – and for pointing out a simple truth
All we really need is a midfielder to unlock Berba – someone that basically does what he does – it’s difficult that we have that player – Hargreaves `i believe but has been so unlucky with injuries
Scholes has had a very off month – very much unlike Scholes and Giggs has come back from injury too quick – giving the ball away does not help at all – and both players of the highest class have been guilty of that – couple with Gary having a few off games – it hasn’t helped results.
Of course then that’s where you look at Carrick or an Ando – sadly Ando is injured and Carrick after what looked like settling in post new year has suddenly switched off when we really needed him.
Fletcher has been brilliant but it shows that he needs a break – he has worked tirelessly again yet others around him haven’t shared his enthusiasm.
I think Valencia has done more than well – he will only get better – it’s sad that when open on Sunday against Blackburn he missed a sitter
But looking back at that game and with so much possession – we should have created chance after chance – the fact that we didn’t isn’t Berba’s fault – after all he is a striker – it is the fault of the midfield for not giving him and themselves the opportunity to carve Blackburn open time and time again.
I am extremely proud of how Nani has come back – a little bit of maturity and a little more focus on decision making will get him to the promised land – finally the real Nani has shown up.
I felt sorry for Macheda on Sunday – he was trying too hard and had no concentration and therefore no impact on the game on Sunday – he is better than that – but will learn.
I think Gibson is one in the making – put it this way – he’s not scared of playing against the big boys – which is one attribute that you need to be a player these days – he has it – he needs to fine tune his passing game – if he can get to that point – seriously that’s a good thing.
For all of Neville’s faults that last ditch tackle on Nzonzi may be a blessing in disguise – I do hope so – even though it’s a long shot
A lot of fans are blasting the older players – and I know why – but we are privileged to have them – they have the perfect experience to pass on to the younger players – without them this team would struggle.
We all have our off days – it’s sad that it’s all come in the last two weeks – but that isn’t it though.
I look at Raph and what happened to him and still am scratching my head – he got done and the result changed – Bayern were truly shit in the second game until the sending off changed the game plan
Again strip everything down from the Chelsea game – they won because of an illegal offside goal – so yes our luck has gone and hasn’t come back – even against Blackburn – pulling Berba down in the penalty box – no penalty – likewise pulling Ji down against Chelsea – no penalty – you wonder if the refs are equalling the Liverpool penalty out – after all just check out the anger from every non United fan regarding that decision
Of course we have bought our fair share of youth and again our two signings Smalling and Chicharito may or may not have an impact – we have forked out the best part of 20 million pounds – I do not want to get into the money/Glazer’s thing
At the end if the gaffer says the money is there – fair enough
And at the end if Berba’s times up then so be it – as mentioned before – partly he is the wrong player at the wrong time for United – partly he isn’t picked by the manager in most of the games (yet still doesn’t bitch or moan like a certain CT) – and finally partly because I don’t think the player has replicated his best years at the best team in United – for whatever reason – no idea – only Berba could truthfully answer that.
Shades of Veron – and it’s sad because I had a lot of respect for Veron too.
Could you imagine if we had Berba at the time when we went through three seasons without the league?
The whole situation is sad – I hope that fate gives us and him a chance to put things right – we’ll see – it all starts tonight then.
Chris20LEGEND – i don’t give a fuck..tevez scored hattrick
@Chris20LEGEND
Thank you for putting them stats up about Berbatov and Tevez this season.
I have been asking for them for a while and you have just proved a point.
Stats that Scott refuses to put up on here because he knows what the outcome will be.
@BabyFaceAssassin
We’re already got an extra man in midfield in BERBATOV!
Think he is gonna do a man marking job on Messi next season! Hehehe.
North Stand Tier 3 – Don’t throw my toys out of the pram? Lol what? You told me to give it a rest in writing about Berbatov, I simply instructed you not to keep coming here and reading if you don’t want to read articles about Berbatov.
At no point have I said if you don’t like Berbatov you’re not a “true” fan. Quite the opposite. I have repeatedly stated that everyone is entitled to an opinion on any player at United and there is no “right” or “proper red” opinion. The only fans I have taken a dislike to is those stood around me booing Berbatov at the weekend when we needed him not to be demoralised, for the sake of the TEAM.
I simply said you are in no position to tell me to “let it go” when it comes to Berbatov. If I want to provide stats to back Berbatov’s contribution and question why players who didn’t contribute anywhere near as much were well respected when Berbatov isn’t, that is up to me. I am asking questions of our support, not telling them what to believe.
AlphaRS – What Tevez does for City has nothing to do with us. He had two years to score that many goals at United and he didn’t, so what difference does it make what he does at City? He is a poor man’s Rooney and would have to play every minute at the exclusion of Rooney to score that many goals for us, something that would never happen.
Mate, no point in arguing.. If this blog is those who disagree with Scott are not a true united player than i feel there is no point arguing at all. A fans really like a club is when he speaks all in support of the club and not the players. When Nani say to the press about fergie, i mention that we had to let him leave as this is unforgiving. I like Nani a lot and supported him but when he said these, for the sake of the club i feel he needs to leave at that time.
Scott, if you feel with Berbatov our clubs has and will improve then it’s your choice but many united fans think otherwise which is why they feel there is a need to buy another striker. A real fans is not blindfolded to support your favorite player but to support your beloved club.
Well I have to admire the effort – once again stats and more stats to tell us why Berbatov is actually fabulous and none of this is his fault. While footy is a team game and the lack of a midfield is undoubtedly a major issue in his style of play the fact is that he simply isn’t up to it in big matches and when selected hasn’t delivered enough, playing in midfield, gesticulating and complaining at all the rest of the team, feigning a punch in the chops etc etc.
The fact is that he isn’t suitable for us – end of – when our manager selects a half fit striker rather than you you know you’re not working out, to be honest I don’t care what the stats say and I don’t care about comparing him to Tevez, he’s a nice enough guy but its just not happening at anything like the level it needs to to sustain a career at Utd – surely
Enough of the Berbatov stuff please – he’s not the only player to be under the microscope but he’s the only one we paid £30m for. As for the comparison of effort you would have to be an idiot to not value the “effort” and “running around” that players put in, effort breeds confidence and hope and that is precisely why we have scored and won matches late on in the past, that side of our game wasn’r anywhere against Blackburn and I actually begin to wonder if Chelsea taking the league might do us a favour this year and at least we would sort out our issues within the squad… (don’t really want that – i feel sick now!!!)
how many chances has he made for the team that other players havnt taken???on sunday if valencia had of scored from berbas pass we wouldnt have a problem
at scott
” If I want to provide stats to back Berbatov’s contribution and question why players who didn’t contribute anywhere near as much were well respected when Berbatov isn’t, that is up to me”
true, but you’re slowly losing your credibility and themn the unbiased fans won’t take you seriously anymore, and you’ll be stuck with few of those who share your opinion
now this is a friendly advice but serisously, i’m from croatia and if you said to someone from the continent that there are some people who think berbatov has been a success and that he’s better than tevez they would not take you seriously
berba fan
that’s AT LEAST WHAT HE CAN DO a single simple pass mate…single fuckin pass
cmon! this thing again??…
@Scott the Red
If we are saying that what Tevez does at City this season is not relevant to United then at the same time how can we say what Berbatov did at Tottenham is relevant to United?
CROoney – Well, I guess people from the continent don’t follow football like we do over here. I’m sure in England we all know that Tevez was the 53rd highest scorer in the league last season and was still adored, yet when Berbatov is the 10th highest scorer in the league he is booed.
Those who are against Berbatov and for Tevez/Smith can’t sway my opinion, just as I can’t sway theirs. I want our strikers to score and create goals. If you want your strikers to run around a lot and put in tackles, at the expense of scoring goals, then that is your choice. I’d argue that was an admirable quality in a midfielder, not a striker, but meh, what does that matter.
AlphaRS – I again have to ask you if you even read the article? The title is Berbatov at Spurs vs Berbatov at United, and one of the questions being asked is whether we have the player at United that Ferguson wanted so badly when he was at Spurs. It is all explained very clearly if you take time to read it, instead of repeatedly asking me questions that have already been answered in the article.
one pass is all it takes to change a game
Scott the Red – does man united play only the EPL…is that the only competition that we play in ?
and did football /tevez/ existed before last season ?
tevez outscored berbatov in both seasons for the club…and that’s another stats !
jeez
AlphaRS: I can definetly understand your point of view.
So here are the official stats for Berbatov and Carlos Tevez for Premier League 09/10:
Berbatov:
Goals: 12
Assists: 6
Total goals contributed: 18 (1 goal per 103 minutes of play)
Tevez:
Goals: 21
Assists: 7
Total goals contributed: 28 (1 goal per 94,64 minutes of play)
Carlos Tevez has also been injured for some time, he also had to adapt to a new club, new management (twice) as well as a different set of players (obviously not as good as ours).
Still, while retaining that hunger for chasing down lost causes, he has scored only five goals less than the once in a lifetime-season that rooney is having. He has also created 7 goals for his team mates. Not bad considering we’re slating him of as useless and a rubbish player. Yes, he was rubbish and mostly useless for us the last season, but that wasn’t down to ability. It was down to his mentality (or rather lack of).
Im not slating Berbatov, he has actually delivered some good stuff this season, but don’t be so naive as to belive that Tevez is an inferior player.
I think we should keep Berbatov, but we need to find a tactic that allows us to use him more as well as using him against the top sides (Scotts suggestion of buying a world class central midfielder should fit the bill)
UNITED!
CROoney – the league is the only constant, that is why I’ve used those stats. A player could score 5 goals in a game against third division opposition in the cup, but is that as credible as scoring 5 goals against Premiership opposition? No.
@Scott the Red
Sorry mate it must be because I am stupid.
Berbatov is class. End of.
AlphaRS – Nobody is saying you’re stupid, but twice now you’ve asked me questions that have already been answered in the article.
Last post on this post.
The one reason and the most important ones is Tevez and Smith bring confidence and hope with our never say die spirit whereas Berbatov brings petulance and moaning with frustration and this demoralize the whole team. This is the most important reason why other fans loves tevez and Smith.
That is the reason Tevez was the 53rd highest scorer in the league last season and was still adored, yet when Berbatov is the 10th highest scorer in the league he is booed.
Fair enough, but let us not forget that Tevez has found the net 21 times this season and has 7 assists, would you rather have that or Berba’s 12 goals 6 assists.
Personally I don’t dislike him, but I really dont think we are the right club for him, I’m desperate to be proven wrong, the difference for me is with feeling, I dont think facts and figures tell you everything about football.
When Tevez was on the pitch I always felt that we could score, there was that urgency about him and the desire to win games for us, however with Berbatov I don’t even feel like we are at all threatening when he’s on the pitch, mostly because it takes something brilliant to put the ball in the net when you’ve got your back to goal or are pissing around on the halfway line.
CitizensErased – For Tevez to score that many goals at United, he would have to play at the expense of Rooney.
ok, if the league is the only constant then tevez scored 14 goals in the league against some mighty opponents and he added 4 goals in the CL in his first season…why not comparing those
because it doesn’t suit your case right ?
Great article. Sums it up nicely. And as I said yesterday, I think Berbatov will leave, and I think he should (for his own sake), given that we are either unwilling or unable to play anything but 451/433 — a system that clearly doesn’t allow room for him (or for any top-class striker apart from Rooney acting alone).
But I’m going to put the cat among the pigeons here. Re your comment about fans driving him out. Do you really think that is happening? And if you do, what does that say about any future scheme of ownership or governorship which could give fans a greater (directly or indirectly) at our great club? Oh, before anyone jumps in, I hate the Glazers and their cursed debt as much as anyone. But what I’m saying is, if “fans” are given the ability to influence major decisions, perhaps by electing (and unelecting) a club president, doesn’t that open the door to “selection by democracy” — a concept that, in sport, I abhor. In sport, I firmly believe that dictatorships work. Otherwise, what happens when a manager (not an established manager like SAF is today, perhaps, but a newer manager … like SAF in his first few years) makes unpopular transfer and/or selection decisions? Will the president be pressured into removing him? If the president (or whoever) stands firm, will that cost him his job in the next election? Will we see assholes running for election on a “platform of reform” (meaning, “I’ll get rid of this stupid manager”)?
No, I’m not saying a fan-owned club is a bad idea. But before accuses me of scaremongering, let me just say that my intention, and sole intenton, is simply to foster further debate. Because despite the all the (rightful) misgivings and outpouring of emotion about our current situation, what I haven’t seen is any discussion of how a future model might work. These issues might not seem important now, but believe me, if a fan-owned model can be brought in (as I very much hope), then they will be critical. And if you don’t believe, just ask Pep Gardiola at Barcelona — you now, the lifelong Barca player and now astonishingly successful coach, who in a few short years has given their fans more than they could have hoped for, yet has insisted on a one-year rolling contract giving him the option, in effect, to quit if he doesn’t like the outcome of the club’s presidential election? (Sorry, long sentence, in a rush…)
Just something to think about…
Cheers!
I want Berbatov to stay. Why not try to use him in the midfield as an attacking midfielder?
Against Blackburn, I honestly felt a little sorry for him. He was getting the ball deep but in the final third there were few runs around him. Macheda is still developing so I’ll forgive him, but he wasn’t making things easier for Berbatov. They didn’t seem to connect.
We surely could have used Owen right now. With Berba’s vision and Owen’s runs I think we would have scored against Blackburn. We dominated the game but lacked ideas and clever runs in the final third.
I am so sad..[irony] Very very sad..[irony] on behalf of the anti-berba bandwagon and berba bashing people.. SAF is a admirer of him and will probably keep him for at least another year.. how many people will shoot themselves if he get a contract extension this summer?
but how come he is leaving him out for the big games? – everyone will ask..
SAF hasnt used him for the big games, I know.. but as weak our midfield has been lately we have had to play 451, and big suprise Rooney – mr. on fire #1 this year, has been given preference on top..
I feel, like alot on here, that Im banging my head against a brick wall on this issue, and that goes for posters on both sides of the arguement. Ive said as much as I think I need to in both explaining and defending my position, and we’re going round in circles here now, and I would think a few of ye feel the same. Lets just leave it and move on, and agree to disagree.
BerbaGod
“but as weak our midfield has been lately we have had to play 451, and big suprise Rooney – mr. on fire #1 this year, has been given preference on top..”
yet when berba played against the big teams he failed miserably
The amount of times hes put players thru ( valencia v bburn being one) and they miss the chance I BLAME BERBA for that..
Anyone else notcied how most of Valencias assists have been created by efence splitting balls by Berba leavin Valencia to do the easy stuff but lets not look at that coz its Berba and “we” dont like him
I find it pathetic that our own fans boo Berba while hes playing for us instead of giving him support…If you boo the guy, do you really expect him to play like he gives a fuck? I know i wouldnt
No matter what he does he gets critised and when the team perform bad they blame Berba ( and half the time he doesnt even be playin and gets blamed for it)
We need to remember hes been playing with a knee injury since October, how many of our “give everything for the club” players do that? also remember he chose to play for us instead he couldve fucked off down the rd and earned alot more money
when he does play in big games he’s a joke
CROoney – First off, I did mention the 14 goals he scored in his first season, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at?
Secondly, goals in the CL are still not a constant, because the teams that can be included in “CL teams” are far broader than PL teams. For example, one of Tevez’s goals were against Dynamo Kiev, who didn’t even win the title in Ukraine that season. That isn’t comparable with scoring against Barcelona and the like.
Therefore, comparing goals scored against Premiership opposition is a much fairer way of comparing players.
I have got a problem…
Scott needs credibility? Let’s be honest here, when you are a blogger, a fan opinion blog at that, you don’t have any sort of credibility, only a sense of respect. We come here to hear Scott say what he thinks, not what we want him to write.
Scott has an opinion. Like all of us here. By suggesting that he is supposed to uphold the moral integrity of journalistic writing (not that many papers do that nowadays), you are seeing his opinions as fact.
It’s one man’s opinion. Now, we can argue how do you define a good player, that’s basic Sociology, where you question the definition. I see that many of you seem to feel that Tevez is a good player based on the assumption that he runs, he score vital goals, and he puts in a shift. Hmmm. I argue that Berbatov is a good player based on his skills, him scoring more goals, and he does put in a shift by going to the halfway line and collect goals, not to mention participate in the defence. Seeing that, I believe we got a problem as our definitions of what constitutes a good player does not match up.
Seeing that we can’t seem to agree, how about we just agree to disagree? And let’s be realistic, Scott has an opinion, he voices it, you voice your opinion. No need to be saying shit when we are all Man Utd fans.
Scott, keep up the good work, I can’t claim to be agreeing to your every opinion, but I do believe that you are doing well. Hope the regulars come back.
Scott,
Given your views on Ronaldo’s petulance, what are your views on the same outbursts at his own teammates from Berbatov despite him having nowhere near the same levels of productivity?
CROoney
failed miserably? what do you mean? something I have not seen that you have seen? he missed a sitter..?
do you remember back in November 2007, when we played Bolton and lost 1-0.. well, Tevez was about 0.5 m from goal and hit it wide.. now that is a sitter
Shouldn’t the blog be renamed, The Republik of Berbatov?
A good point Scott yeah, but I’m not saying he should or could replace Wayne and I’m certainly not trying to criticise any of your data or the article – which I thought was a great piece.
I just preferred Tevez to Berbatov (obviously not now), not really for any particular reason that can be put down or shown with evidence, Berbatov just isn’t the right player for me, I would never boo him, but I certainly dont agree with the argument that with proper support and people rallying behind him he will improve, we should have been doing that from the beginning anyway, and he doesn’t strike me as the type that is likely to repay people’s faith in him
play berba just behind rooney and then we will see how gud he is.he made robbie keane look a gud player look what has happened to him since he stoped playing with berba.
And wasnt it only last season when there was questions been asked about rooney being a big game player? why was that coz he was playing out of position like berba is now…….berba is not a lone striker so it is unfair to judge him in that position
lol—i know you didn’t mention tevez’ first season…and we both know why…because it would make your case fail…that’s why i’m against partional stats …
they both had the chance of playing against similar opponents in the CL and berba failed, and that’s why you found appropriate to ignore that aspect of their games
tevez scored more goals for us despite playing second fiddle to a clearly inferior player for the most of the second season…this season berbatov had no pressure of being subbed by someone inferior because he was given all the time in the world..compare those…tevez has a better goal scoring ratio for us than berbatov and when you take a look at the importance of the goals and the names of the teams he scored against, you would see that you’re totally wrong and manipulating with the stas
come on scott – write an article of their stats in which you compare their total number of goals and the teams they scored against..it’s not fair that you ingore the goals from the CL becasue CL is part of our history and our legacy…the CL made us this big because when winning only EPL it doesn’t matter that much to the world football
scott..my apologies – i misread your post and didn’t see that you mentioned his first season
Berbatov has 4 games to show the calibur that made us pay 30million for him in the first place, I will defend him as long as he is playing for United,
Sorry Scott, I have to agree with most people here. Berba’s time is up at United. I think he’s a great player but not a United player. It’s time to get Benzema in, its time for him and Rooney up front.
Berba’s had 2 seasons with us and only scores against the little teams. He’s never been there when we needed him the most (Bayern, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc)
Fergie summed it up when he played a half fit Rooney against Bayern.
Football is all about opinions, I agree totally, but mine is Lose the Berbaflop even for 10 million, if we are lucky.
Bring in Benzema at all costs and watch him become one/if not the best in the world !!!!
That’s my 2 cents
berba fan
“play berba just behind rooney and then we will see how gud he is.”
we’ve already tried that, what’s wrong with you ! he has been played behind rooney the entire season !
BerbaGod – he failed miserably in EVERY big match in the 2 season for the club, apart from the Chelsea match at OT …against inter twice, against liverpool every time, against arsenal everytime, against chelsea pretty much every time,against porto…
CROoney – I did mention Tevez’s first season though so what are you talking about? Read the article and then maybe you can have a go at having a discussion. It’s a waste of my time though if you can’t even be bothered to read the article first though, otherwise I’ll just have to keep repeating myself, as I have done already in response to you and AlphaRS.
Melvinho – You don’t need to apologise because we do agree. I think his time is up too. Quite frankly, he deserves better. He can go to a club where the fans want their striker to score and create goals, not run around and put in tackles.
He can only score against the teams he plays against. Rarely does he get a game for the bit games and when he does, the whole team’s poor performance is blamed on him.
I like to look at it this way..
picture if you can united losing 1-0 or drawing a game they needed to win in a match we are playing with one striker in wayne rooney and we need that goal to turn our season.
If tevez was still at united competing with berbatov for the second strikers role i would turn to tevez everytime as his introduction alone always seemed to boost the players and fans alike. it seemed to give the players that extra bit of drive with tevez on the pitch and on numerous occasions he scored important goals or even a tackle to win a ball to set up a chance. you cant buy that.
berbatov in comparison coming on as a goal getting sub does not fill most of the fans with hope.
He is great player no doubt but he doesnt create that buzz that tevez did.
i know people are comparing stats but sometimes they dont give the whole picture.
Chelsea play Bolton today. I will keep my fingers crossed for Bolton to snatch something from the game. Now Chelsea played FA Cup game on Saturday while Bolton is relatively fresh.
Then Chelsea play Tottenham who now at least have chances to win that 4th spot. A draw would be okay and if we win prior to that at City we will pray till the dying minutes of the season.
Why i wrote this ? I am not sure we can win anything these days. But if we do i wonder what will be the people’s opinion on this season.
we play him there what happens???? rooney scores.
and benzema isnt good enough for madrid but is for us?
You mention Ruud in the article; I consider Berbatov very end of the road Ruud-esque in the sense that the game needs to feature him to get anything out of him, but he simply doesn’t have the pace to keep up with our jets.
When Berbatov does get to play and is featured as an effective player, it’s the matches where many of us talk about it feeling “slow” and “bogged down” The games where teams park the bus in front of the goal and challenge us to pick them apart in the last third. But if it’s our typical pacey, “flying on the wings” type game, he can’t keep up.
While Tevez was decreasingly effective, one of the common statements about hims was “he’s a poor man’s Rooney”. We could use one of those right now, judging by the last 12 days. He also had a knack of scoring goals when we needed them most, which I can’t recall Berbatov doing.
SB
“Conclusion: The number of goals Berbatov has scored and created this season is of a higher rate than any of his four years in England, higher than both Carlos Tevez’s years at United as well”
Er, Berbatov this season = 23%. Tevez in 07/08 = 26%?
This is the same old fairly desperate running down of Tevez to try and make Berbatov look better. Try telling the bitter lot down the road that Carlos Tevez is a headless chicken who doesn’t score goals.
I mean this:
“What does that tell us about the standards of some United fans? Running around and looking to be working hard is a more admirable quality in a striker than scoring and creating goals. Great.”
It’s just a bit embarrassing really. That 26% for Tevez is better than Berbatov this season and not much different at all to Berbatov last season, and Tevez scored/created 21 that year – the only reason his percentage isn’t comfortably higher than Berba in either of his seasons is because Ronaldo had a freakishly good season that year and we were just a much better team than we are now. And yet you dismiss Tevez as someone who just ‘runs around and looks to be working hard’ for essentially have the same goal/assist stats as Berbatov! Come on.
keep berba….. get some good midfielders in…. lets look forward to the next season
I dread the day our club becomes fan controlled, the way they want things…
1) If our 2nd choice striker doesn’t score 20 goals he should be sold,
2) If our 2nd choice striker scores less goals than other teams’ first team striker, he should be sold.
3) If our 2nd choice striker cannot dribble past 5 players, dummy the keeper and score, he should be sold.
4) Our 2nd striker choice must be able to cover for the attacking midfielder position, make a through pass and get to the end of his own ball and slot it into the net, if not, he will be termed a flop.
5) Ironically, the 1 condition the striker must meet is to be able to run all day by lazing around during training.
Also, by their logic, Nani, Valencia, Park and Giggs are all flops and should all be sold because Messi score more goals than them
ok scott, so you’re telling me that you’re more satisfied with what berba has provided us with than tevez..ok fair enough but i think that it’s pretty obviosu that you’re wrong
@Bishopville Red – yes i remember. Tevez ran the lengh of the playing field getting rid of 5-6 players and the goalkeeper and scored into an empty net with his butt. Most of them were tap-ins. You need players around you to put the ball into the net. endless…
@Marq
Lol, spot on. And don’t forget. It’s all about the 30 MILLION POUNDS! That should equal 30 goals per season and at least 10 Cantona-esque match winning 1-0 goals. If not, the player is instantly shit and a flop.
Seriously though. Time to end the debate and let Sir Alex handle it from now on. Last time I checked, the league wasn’t dead yet. We can talk about Berba’s future after the season is over.
“Tevez ran the lengh of the playing field getting rid of 5-6 players and the goalkeeper and scored into an empty net with his butt”
he did similar against wigan in his first season,,,alos he didn’t score a simple tap in against west ham, against wigan away last season, against boro, newcastle,spurs,chelsea,roma,lyon,porto etc…
The problem with every comment that wants Scott to compare Berba / Tevez this season is that they are playing in completely different systems. Tevez played at United in a role similar to Berba’s and was without doubt less succesfull. (He did run around more though!!!) There can be no debate statiscally and no debate from every other point of view in my opinion, especially regarding they handled themselves as individuals.
The headless chicken holding his ears to the crowd is now a bitter were he is well suited. Berba’s a gifted player who is and always has been comitted to United and deserves our support.
Berba is a class footballer but at the minute he is a luxury we cant afford because our midfield is so shite he has to track back and try and get something going for himself and we cant play 2 up front because fergie knows our midfield is shite and dos’nt trust playing 2 in centre midfield. as scott said if we had a keane/scholes(back in the day) partnership in the centre maybe we would see a diferent Berba. He just came to us at the wrong time and were not the right club for him.
Fuck berba, fuck tevez, n fuck smith!! The rest of u pull ur Tongue out of scotts ass, he can brush his own teeth. We will go on, we will never die!!
Scott n … Third tier back row, ur both passionate n have great blogs, but the bottom lone is berba isn’t united calibre
from a football personal point of view, I’d rather have a player like tevez in my Sunday 11 aside team than berba, as he makes the other ten on the pitch believe, that’s raises their game. He’s a cunt though!! Lol!!
Marq, most of the comments made have obviously gone over your head. Nice to see that you mentioned Giggs (an all time legend) and Valencia (a first season success story) to try add credit to your post when they have as much to do with the arguement as the colour of Fergies shoes. By who’s logic are you referring? The arguements are getting more ridiculous as this goes on.
Enough of this debate, Sir Alex will decide. Btw, the news flying around saying Berbatov will be sold comes from The Sun, we all know how accurate that paper is…..
Anyone knows any voodoo? Do us a favour and cast it on Chelsea later
@Corea
Your imagination seems to have clouded your memories.
arijc – You have a point mate, Scott should change the name of his blog to Republik of Berbatov for having the audacity to support one of our players.
@ marq
we are all comparing both players cos they both were at united at the same time. one was sold and one has stayed.
i understand tevez’s behaviour was unacceptable and that berbatov’s is the oppisite but we’re not we’re not here to compare behaviours.
most people are comparing stats of both players but as i pointed out in a previous post tevez created a buzz amongst fans and players. he gave the team a boost and us fans were excited when he was coming on to try to get a goal or even put in a tackle with his head. can you say the same of berbatov???
does he fill the fans with an expectancy or give our players a boost or score important goals compared with tevez?
COREA: You need players who can get on the end of those tap-ins.
I still think Berbatov is good, just as I thought Ruud was still a good player when he left. But, like Ruud, our preferred, most effective type of play simply does not suit him. His most effective, preferred style of play does not suit the team.
Bad fit, that’s all.
Marq
I did a two week course in voodoo a few years back ill give it a crack later on.
Marq – you should give credit to the sun, mate. they have a group of very smart journalists who know how to analize the situation. and you know they were the first to let the world know.
@willierednut
Yeah, unheard of. Don’t get me wrong, no player is beyond critisism, but the Berba bashing is exceeding that.
Stats are one thing. And I still don’t even think those stats are good enough. Those of us who properly criticise Berbatov don’t often bring Tevez into it, but I think someone earlier raised a good point that if you compare Berbatov to Tevez this season then it’s clear who comes out on top. Comparing season-by-season is difficult as football seasons are better. This season has been quite a high goalscoring one and big teams have lost games they normally wouldn’t etc. Still, it’s an impressive investigation statistically.
But compare it with his all-round play as well. Pro-Berbatov fans can’t honestly say he does enough int he game. It’s stuff that is hard to quantify, but his demeanor, his attitude and his overall game just hasn’t worked. The guy has incredible technical ability, but we only get it in glimpses.
I also don’t understand all this gash about Benzema kissing the Real badge. Rooney kissed the fuckin Everton badge. “Once a blue, always a blue” and all that nonsense. And when Ronaldo was with us, he always loved Madrid. So? He’s still one of our all-time greats. When Benzema was playing regular football as part of a team at Lyon, he was quality. And he is still young. He would be a fantastic buy.
@arijc – LOL you know when i read comments about the important goals Tevez scored for us i remember Lyon, Blackburn, Chelsea. they were all being-at-the-right-place-at-the-right-time goals. yes, he scored some crackers but suddenly i just can’t prefer them to the passes Berba gave to Valencia when we scored those beauties with one-touch play.
@North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
I said again, don’t like what you read? Don’t read it. If you think it is ridiculous, then say bye bye to this blog
Saying me stuck in Scott’s ass and compare him to a dog with a bone, as well as playing with his toys, just shows what kind of person you are, and how you wish things are to be written to your liking.
@CaerdyddCoch
I wouldn’t compare Tevez to Berbatov while they were at different clubs mate. It’s like comparing Berba while he was at Spurs to Tevez while he was with us. I would compare what they both did for Man United, but I am not a fan of comparing stats in general. They can be used in many different ways.
Benzema would have been a fantastic buy a year ago. He could still be a good buy, but I am not that warm about him anymore. It’s not that he rejected us. He wasn’t the first to do so. I just feel that Real have really stalled his career and development.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/man-utd-boss-ferguson-splash-out-valencia-star-david-silva-767491
http://www.tribalfootball.com/man-utd-boss-ferguson-determined-land-benzema-second-attempt-767511
Some other piece of smart vintage journalism.
i wonder if some of their so-called journalists visit this blog.
Do you seriously think we can buy Benzema for 25 mln without bringing Rooney into it ?
We are aggressive young-talent-grabbing club in opinion of mister Platini. But PerezMadrid is like a godfather.
Oh God. looks like nothing has changed since the bayern game going by some of the comments
The way people feel about Berba, is the way i feel about Carrick. Totally frustrated with him at the minute, but i won’t go in to over drive calling him all the names under the sun. Honestly lads, who gives a fook what Tevez is doing at City, he doesn’t play for us no – more.
@AIG
Good to see you again. Of course it hasn’t! It never will.
Great analysis Scott! Spot on as usual.
If only more people could make their own opinions based on logical arguments and facts rather than the negative bullshit that the red tops are loving to write and publish. Remember how Nani was supposed to be transferring just a few months ago – and what is the situation now! People talk about the press being ABU and still feed on their crap.
I wish people would forget about this silly inflated price tag and just look at whether he is contributing (no matter what his body language is… lazy, agressive, whatever) and you clearly show with the stats that he does.
This whole affair is so sad and in a way I agree that maybe it is best that Berba moves on to prosper where he is appreciated.
keano99; spot on mate, our midfielders are shite & SAF knows it. no 2 ways about it from now on. the midfield section has got to be reinforced.
@Costas
Thanks mate. Same here
Hope you are good.
I thought thing must have got better here but it seems otherwise. the sesons not over yet so why are people talking about selling players is beyond me.
@willierednut
I think there is a sense that the 30million we spent on Berbatov was the last large amount of transfer cash we will fork out and they feel that Tevez was a better investement than Berbatov. Maybe that’s why Tev is brought into the conversation every now and then.
@ Marq – Totally agree mate. This is just a mob mentality being shown by the fans just because we had a bad season (a season which was blighted by defensive injuries and Rooney’s injury at such a critical juncture didn’t help). Somehow this season never looked like it was meant to be with all the debt issues and talks of fans boycotting matches.
I just have something to say to people who want to compare Tevez this season against Berbatov. The difference is that Tevez is their first choice striker whereas we play 4-5-1 in almost every game with Rooney playing through 90 minutes more often than not.
Since Rooney was having such a great season we stuck with him as the sole striker. If Tevez was here he wouldn’t hv got a look in either.
I wouldn’t want a striker who has rejected united. Karim Benzema doesn’t cut it for me, not at his price tag. Why can’t we just stick with the options we have and try to develop our younger crop? Some creativity in midfield is required though.
it’s really hard to admit,but after spending 18 years supporting this great club,i can say that this team is one of the weakest team we’ve had since SAF took over as our coach.We lack a leader in the Midfield , we lack creativity in Midfield. we can’t afford to deploy two recognized strikers against MOST of the teams in Europe,even when playing at OT. we lost two world class players,one of them was a twat though, and we replaced them with a young but gifted winger and Owen.Again, i must stress, i was a huge fan of Berba and this stats show that we were wrong in bringing him in the first ,not because he’s not a world class player,but because his style of play is not suit Manchester United and never will IMHO.In certain games his passing and link up play may do well.i don’t hate Berba. last year in Blackburn away 2_0 victory ,he was very good .but we had Ronaldo and tevez. I would take Rooney and Tevez up front any day over Rooney and Berba.
to all of you who call all the doubters ( berba doubters ) incapable of making their own conclusions instead of reading the newspapers,,,trust me guys, since the moment i saw him playing for us i knew he’s a completely missed investment…since that very first match
i couldn’t believe all the hype at the time..if i trusted to what i read at the time, i would have most probably consider edhim as god or as cantona at least…
never ever rated him as anything special and never really agreed with those ” his touch is seond to none, his vision, passing” crap
AIG – We signed a player last week, so it’s not just fans that are thinking about players coming in, or players leaving. welcome back
Marq – “Sir Alex will decide”? He has decided!!! He played a limping Rooney instead of Berbatov against Bayern, and he doesnt play him in any big games.
Yeah, you and some others are stuck up Scotts ass, ye hang on his every word. Thats not a dig at Scott, its a dig at you. And dont try and make it look like I called Scott a dog, I said on this Berbatov issue he is like a dog with a bone – its a saying not an insult, and I hope he knows what I context it was meant, I thought it was fairly clear, although it went above your head agian.
But Marq, if you dont like what you read, just leave the blog…
Why do people insist on talking about Tevez this season and comparing it with any of Berbatov’s seasons? Tevez flourished this season when he was used as a main man in a 433 in city. The particular specifics of this role, the fact that every balls comes to the main striker lead to him scoring a good number of goals, however there can be only one of those strikers in a team.
So I fail to see the logic between comparing Tevez’ season as a lead striker in 433 with Berbatov playing mostly in support role in 442.
Furthermore, City this season as a team are similar to Tottenham from last few years. They are a good attacking team with suspect defence that many teams have a go at and this leaves much more spaces for good forward players. United on the other hand spend 75% of their games trying to break teams with 9 men behind the ball in order to get the first goal.
Either compare Tevez and Rooney or compare Tevez and Berbatov from their time at United. One thing that I give credit to Tevez is that he is an amazing player to have on the bench. when put in as a sub chasing a goal, his energy against tired defenders was often leading to success.
However, at the end of the day he was not ready to play in a 3 in 2 game this season, he whined and played the fans and I think everybody should be happy with the outcome of his transfer
North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
spot on !
@sankgupt – the problem with giving the youngsters their chance is Fergie’s strange assessment of some of them. We have Carling Cup, yes maybe the one and only trophy we win this season, but he plays first team in the semis and final. No more games for the young ones except maybe Besiktas and Wolfsburg in the champions league. After falling short agains Besiktas at home what was the opinion of the people ? Divided i think. Many said it will be a lesson learned but we should give some of them more chances. That is the problem. We develop players but we can’t afford to give him chances and they go to Burnley’s Sunderlands etc.
And remember guys. When Tevez was kept on the bench last season and didn’t produce goals when he was brought in many of us argued how can a player make an impact if he isn’t given enough chances. I think it was some kind of the mental confidense problem. And now lets project it on Berbatov and the way he handled it this season.
@ CROoney
to be fair mate his touch and control are first class along with some lay offs and flicks which are all great but besides those qualities his game just doesnt suit uniteds sytle of play im sure you’ll agree
@willierednut
there is a difference between support and blind faith. there is a difference between putting up a valid argument and putting up garbage as defense of a player.
@willie
thanks mate
ya. i know that but some comments on a previous thread like sell berbatov,carrick and buy silva,benzema,hamsik,etc,etc,etc really dont make sense now. We have 4 games left. lets win those and then think of the summer. We signed Hernandez because we felt we could have missed on him had he performed well at the WC.
Dont want to pick sides on this one but North Stand tier 3, CROoney and AlphaRS make some valid points.
“Yeah, you and some others are stuck up Scotts ass, ye hang on his every word”
Oh yea, we support our own player and this is how you describe us?
Fair play to North Stand, Tier 3, Back Row. Makes a lot of sense in fairness to him
Scott has been going on and on about stats the last 2 days on Berbatov. For some reason, he brings up Tever in almost everything he writes. Bringing Alan Smith into the equation today tells me all i need to know about his argument.
We’ve all palyed a bit of ball over the years so we know just how valuable Tevez & Berbatov are without bringing meaningless stats into this. I know who i’d prefer to have playing for us the last could of weeks. Twat that Tevez is. He scored when it mattered for us, he scored when they needed him to at WHU and he’s doing the same thing at City. Spurs are a nothing team and their players are never under the same pressure as WHU were that relegation season or we have been ht elast 2 seasons. City have to get 4th this year and he seems to be contributing accordingly.
When somone questions Scott’s constant defence of Berbatov, some good points and some weak ones, he gets very defensive and simply won’t appreciate that other people have formed their own opinions that don’t match up with his.
I think Scott should accept that some united fans want their strikers to work their arses off. It is not about some fans adoring forwards that run around a lot but don’t score that many goals. It’s about giving your all when playing for the club. Tevez scored big goals for us and was a real threat when he played for united. He was very direct and very honest and that’s what most football fans want to see. They dream of playing for their club so when they pay their money to see their heros they want to see those players give their all.
Dress it up any way you want but Berbatov doesn’t give his all. He hasn’t, and doesn’t score vital goals in the big games. The reason he is not played in the big games anymore is that he is now obviously not trusted by our manager to perform against our main rivals.
Scott, it’s easy to throw up stats the way you do, but North Stand Tier 3 hits the nail on the head. Agree to disagree. You’re only winding people up by not accepting their points by coming back a second day on this issue in a different guise. Let it go. The fans have made their mind’s up. although i don’t agree with booing the player or name-calling, we pay to see our team play and have a right to express their opinion.
You like Berbatov and want him to be equally liked by all the fans. He’s not, and people have given their reasons why. Just like you have.
Now can we fu*king talk about something else and dream of a freak draw in tonight’s game in London…
CROoney – You’ve always hated him, only joking mate. I’ll take your word for it that you never rated him, as i said i feel the same about way about Carrick, just feel Fletch is outshining him the way Keano started to outshine Ince.
AIG – hi mate. i wonder if you received my mail a couple of weeks ago.
“Me and my mates live and breath United, so just cause I doubt the contributions Berbatov has made over the last two seasons doesnt mean Im some bandwagon jumping twat, and I certainly wont have my dedication questioned by some posters on here who are clearly following United the last few years only.”
after eading this i seriously think of quiting the blog. i feel ashamed.
Where is King Eric. BTW. not like him not to comment on any thread in a day.
@Corea
hi mate. How are you?
I got your mail. Apologize for not replying immediately and then it slipped out of my mind.What you said did help me.i feel refreshed coming back
Scott, you cannot compare him with Tevez or Smith cos Berbatov came at a huge price tag. and still please answer this.. are you HAPPY when you seen him in the line up?
Corea – what part of that (my) statement makes you feel ashamed? And why? Theres alot of comments going round saying that anyone against Berbatov, or anything else United related arent real fans. Well Im saying I dont think Berbatov has cut it, and Im a real fan. You can take it any way you want, I think it reads pretty clear. You dont have to agree with everything Scott and others on here say to be a ‘proper supporter’.
gazmask
i know mate, but it’s irrelevant coz that doesn’t win you matches…all that is overrated…so what if he can do an odd flick…denilson of brazil could do that too and where is he now…flopping in vietnam
same goes for quaresma and i highly doubt that the likes of okocha and riquelme could have been successfull for us..those are players who can’t make it in the big stage
willirednut, i don’t know who knows me on here from the beginning of the season but i think that ALEX IS GOD or eric the king can witness for me always being a doubter….when i say always,i mean from his united days…i didn’t know why saf thought that he was relevant to us, coz quite clearly he isn’t…we can do and could have done without him
It would be quite some work but it would be interesting to summarize the performances of the games Berbatov started this season.
I tend to remember him being praised after almost every game he started and being MOM contender in most, that is until the last two performances that turned him into “flop of the season and worst forward season ever that cost us the title,the FA cup and the CL”.
Here we go again, stats don’t tell the whole strory. Darren Bent scores a lot, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near my team. Berbatov is a fantastically talented player who thinks he can bitch and moan at younger players when they inevitably aren’t on the same page as him, takes forever to get up when he falls down in a game we desperately need goals, shirks his responsibilities as the lone front man by dropping deeper and deeper as the game goes on (see the Balckburn game). Berbatov has been consistently dissapointing for us, with a glimpse of his genius in between. What we need is a striker who can be trusted to step in when Rooney is out and lead the line, Berbatov has had two chances to show he is the man for this recently and failed both tests. 29 year old professionals don’t take two seasons to gel with their new team. I was so excited when we signed him, but that excitement has been dropping ever since, and now I’ve hed it, he isn’t the right player for us, no one is denying his talent, but these desperate attempts at justifying his existence at United are really weird. If you want what is best for our team, you want him sold and a new striker bought. It actually pains me a little to say this, as I desperately wanted him to succeed, because when he is on form, he is a delight to watch and practically unplayable, but he is very rarely on form for us.
CROoney is right that he said it before too. he was saying right from the start of the season that we should have kept tevez and that tevez is better than berbatov.
not saying whether he is right or wrong but i have had discussions with him on that before.
@ CROoney
similar to now saf is still missing that link player to knit it all together for the team.
he thought berbatov was that player along with myself and a lot of other united fans i know.
obviously with hindsight he should have invested elsewhere but saf doesnt always get it right.
creative midfielder is needed in the summer, someone like wesley snjieder of inter who can play killer passes from midfield and chip in important assists and goals
can anyone provide me with some stats ?
i want to see how many times berba scored a goal that actually had relevance on the outcome of the match ( if it got us any points )
kiko deserved his place….. dont let him go….
all i can remember is the bolton goal last season to win 1-0 in injury time
ive always been a skeptic of Berba’s move to United no matter the price, i couldnt see him fitting in here and i havent been a huge fan of his whilst he has been here but i would never slag him off like some people are doing. I even saw a post somewhere comparing the hate for him to the Glazers? How f**king stupid are some people? 2 things i feel personally that have made him never win over the fans:
1. was the price tag, like you mentioned soo so over priced it was uphill from there for him.
2. like you also mentioned in this article he doesn’t run about like a nutter for 90 minutes, his body language makes him look lazy all the time which doesn’t help him at all.
I think if he was on this same form but ran around like a nut case nobody would be on his back and we wouldnt be having these conversations now.
Great stats Scott, just shows you don’t have to be a 90 minute nutter to play well at United
oh here they are..pretty impressive innit
first against stoke (finished 2-0 to United)
Equaliser against Sunderland 1-1 (finished 2-2)
First against Blackburn
First against Burnley
@gazmask – and that goal was set up by tevez
i meant to say: “to help United’s cause” instead of: “play well at United” * lol
@CROoney
Out of his 26 goals for us, 11 have put us ahead or equalised for us. There was one instance where the goal didn’t matter much because we lost the game eventually. At Everton.
CROoney – Good points about Quaresma and Riquelme, both were at Barca and couldn’t handle the pressure of playing for a big club.
this season costas, this season
don’t forget that my beloved argentina failed because they were relying too much on him…i saw it coming back then,,,he doesn’t know that football is played 90 minutes plus overtime rather than 70 minutes that he is capable of playing…
i see in riquelme a perfect example of berba’s case…both silky players with wonderful touch and a poor mentality…quaresma also failed at inter and chelsea
@CROoney
Be specific then!
Just kidding. The ones you mentioned, plus the Everton game. If you can count that.
@CROoney
Berbatov is Class mate. Works brilliant in a 4-6-0 formation…!
SELL Berbatov
BUY Kenwyn Jones!
Anyone on here saying that you cant be a true supporter because we dont think Berbatov is the man and we dare say he hasnt delivered – can any of ye honestly say that ye have never sat in a pub with mates or wherever and said that a certain player simply isnt good enough to wear the United shirt? Never? Dont get me wrong, no matter who pulls on the shirt and plays for us, I’ll back them to the hilt if Im at the game – but that doesnt mean I cant form my own opinion (not from The Sun as some repeatedly imply) on a certain player and say to my mates (or on a United blog) that he isnt the right man for us. I sang my heart out at the back of the East Stand at 3-1 down, 4-1 down and at full time last year when the scousers did us, and the following week, sang til full time and clapped the lads off the park at Fulham when we thought there was a real chance we blew it – I aint an armchair fan, or part of the prawn sandwich brigade, or a bandwagon jumper, and I dont just sing when we’re winning. And in my opinion, Berbatov is not the man we need at the club with our current squad. Dont assume you know what type of fan I am (or others with the same sentiments on here) because I go against what some of ye think.
@CROoney
I tend to remember that at least 3 or Tevez’s last season 5 PL goals were set up by Berbatov(Liverpool,Stoke,City)
Actually I though these two worked quite well together, in another team they would have made quite a pair
Veron also was a greatly talented player when he signed for us but only showed glimpses against everton and a few champions league games but wasnt cut out for united, again another hefty price tag
Waiting for the glory hunters who never post when we win to stop commenting. Then I’ll start commenting again. Disgusted by you lot. For Berba’s own sake, I hope he goes somewhere where he is appreciated.
@kosio
That’s a good point. Actually one of Berbatov’s best spells at United was early 2009 when he and Tevez played up front. Seemed to click better with him than with Rooney.
@Scott the Red
Well put together mate, i like how you use stats to put across a point.
My gripe is though, just because I dont think Berba is the answer even though he so easily could be if things went his way doesnt mean I worship Tevez?
You seem hung up on this, im glad Tevez plays for the bitters, Derby day is back to its former glory with the added spice and hatred.
I was more than happy not to spend the ridiculos amount of money on Tevez as we had Roo and the very clasy Berba.
The problem is though time is running out for Berba in SAF’s eyes! He will defend him all day long because he is the best man manager in the world but team selections dictate he is not seen as SAFs go to man.
Berba’s problem is he a world class player lost in a team where we dont know how to play him. He played deep and SAF said that was incorrect. We play him is a lone striker then we fans say that is not his position as he is more creative and drops deep?
What is it? I certanly dont know anymore.
The difference was, Veron was brillant at Lazio and Parma, but just couldn’t handle the pace of the premiership. He was good for us in the champions league, when the pace of the game was slower.
@North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
We may not agree about Berbatov, but I support you against mentalities like that. No need to start turning in each other just because of one player.
The problem in my opinion is that we have gone past the point where Berbatov will be allowed to prove the doubters wrong. As Scott said, Fergie is trying to fit him in, rather than work around him. Which he should do by the way, since he shouldn’t change the system for no one player. And even worse, we’ve reached the point where the Berba debate has carried itself to the stands. So there might only be one outcome in all this for everyone’s sake.
I am a huge fan of Berbatov. He oozes class, and he is a United player in the true sense of the word. The single biggest reason why you English have been so unsuccessful at international level is because you prefer artisans to artists. United fans have always appreciated flair players over the years, even when success was the odd F.A cup. Now, we are so successful and yet we boo our own players- an absolute disgrace.
1966 was a great year for England- Eric Cantona was born!
berbatov is not world class…..
in fact he couldn’t play in any top team of the top league…
think what you want , but let us look at the things like this – take real madrid for example – they have players with better qualities thatnberbatov has to offer…i mean they have what he has to offer and they have it better…same goes for barcelona, but i assure you that tevez would offer something completely different to real or barca ( although barca does not need him ) …he would find his place at least on the bench for those teams but berba wouldn’t as he has nothing different to offer…
tevez isn’t as flashy or as silky but he would be a valuable asset at real or barca…milan, inter,bayern – everywhere….
@giggs11gerrard0
Sometimes I wonder mate, what does it mean exactly when Fergie supports a player in public?
He backed Neville and Park before the Bayern game and then they weren’t even on the bench! He put his faith in Berbatov, but against Bayern he didn’t trust him until we were desperate for a goal.
Berba told Citeh to f*ck off and signed with us. Berba has never ONCE complained about his playing time, his role, or Sir Alex. Tevez had one great year at United, then constantly whinged to the press about his lack of playing time and also made some disparaging comments about Sir Alex. The fans chant, “Fergie, sign him up!” over Sir Alex’s end of the season speech. Tevez then goes to our biggest rival for loads of money and ends up banging in a lot of goals for a shit side. I understand Tevez may be scoring more goals, but which player has the character of a United player? Is being a United player only about how you perform on the pitch? Should we replace Vidic with John Terry, too? Cause you know, Terry is a lion on the pitch. Who cares who he shags, right? Berbatov may not be delivering as many of us would like on the pitch, but he shows the character of a United player. To me, that is more than enough of a reason to support him- through thick and thin. Tevez’s absolute lack of class and dignity made me lose all respect for him as a person.
@giggs11gerrard0
I think he has to drop deep because the midfield aren’t very good.
This has actually got to be one of the weakest midfield’s we have ever had under SAF.
But if he is played as a loan stirker he needs to adapt his game like Rooney has. Remember Rooney taking corners and picking up the ball on the wings when he was a loan striker? He was told to stay central and upfront as a focal point and it worked. Don’t think Berbatov has the pace to play like that though.
Needs a support striker. Like Macheda against Blackburn.
These stats have certainly changed my mind. It’s now obvious to me that Berbatov is much better than Tevez. Lucky we had the goal-machine Berbatov leading the line against Blackburn to help us secure that vital 1 point that could be the difference between us finishing 2nd and 3rd this season (fingers crossed!) Imagine where we’d be now if we were still relying on that shit cunt Tevez?
The fact that you need to keep pumping out stats for this guy shows his true value for the club. Definitely not worth what we paid for him.
He has classy touches and can pick a decent pass on occasion but the guy is absolutely not worth what we paid for him.
Twat or not, Tevez has brought the goods this year when played as a primary striker. Again, the fact that Scott still needs to use his stats, while neglecting his sparkling form of this year, goes to show how little an impact Berbatov has had on this club. Is he a game changer? no. Can he inspire the club to victories? no. Does he have the work ethic of a top striker? no.
Rooney is everyones first choice striker, including Tevez’s over Messi, because he has the work ethic to go along with his skills. Rooney’s touch and vision on the ball, coupled with his instinct are 1000 times better than Berbatov. Rooney has all the skill in the world. If he had the work rate of Berbatov he wouldn’t be as successful as he is.
These stats are just that; stats. They don’t truly reflect the player’s impact on the club or on the team’s results.
If you want a stat here’s one. 28 that’s how many goals Tevez has scored this season. A mere 233% more than Berbatov.
at Sanj
“Berba has never ONCE complained about his playing time,”
not true at all…he started moaning about the playing time after our crashing out against bayern
what do i have for his love for the club or for his telling city to fuck off….nothing…in fact i would have been more happier had he accepted city’s offer,,,then he would have ruin them and tevez would have stayed and actually help us to win us something
@Sanj
“I understand Tevez may be scoring more goals, but which player has the character of a United player?
Berbatov may not be delivering as many of us would like on the pitch, but he shows the character of a United player.”
Is this a joke?
who knows what happened with Tevez behind the scenes at our Club?
I dont profess to know, but what i DO know is that anytime he wore a United shirt he played with his heart. I also know that he DID score many vital goals for us during his short stay.
Did he not? Am I lying?
Then dont act like he didn’t, where is the class in that?
Before he said anything disrespectful I remember the delay in signing him up, and I thought to myself WHY dont we sign him before he leaves? He’s scored so many vital goals, he’s proved his worth, the whole world has seen he is a goal threat, so whats the problem? I also remember thinking to myself Christ, Alec clearly doesnt like Tevez does he? Thats when I assumed Alec was waiting to buy an even BETTER striker then Tevez.
Of course, since he’s left we are yet to see a better striker arrive….
By the way, ROM has been comparing Tevez to Berbatov recently, not the people posting.
Personally I think we treated him as less than a Star Striker, and Fuck what anybody thinks, Tevez is a Star Striker, thats why he keeps scoring against us. Would anybody really be surprised if he scores another consolation goal against us ? Course not. Why? Cos he’s a fucking good striker.
Considering all the goals he scored for us and considering he PROVED his worth, I thought Tevez shouldve been snapped up before we spent all that money on an unproven Berbatov. Seriously, since Berbatov came into the League with Tottenham, and since Tevez came in with West Ham… up until today – regardless of who they play for – WHO is the better Striker? Theres only one answer.
I love United but I wont lie to myself just because Tevez is no longer a United player.
As for these Statistics today, please….
WHO has scored more against our Big Four Rivals in their career?
WHO has scored more match winning goals in their career?
WHO has scored more in Cup Runs in their career?
WHO has scored more in Europe in their career?
We all know the answer, and it aint Berbatov, but its not even fair of ROM to compare him to Tevez, because Tevez is clearly the better player, and he’s 4 years younger.
But like I said, im not comparing Tevez to Berbatov, ROM are, and since they are, allow me to state here that I Personally dont hold anything against Tevez since he left.
PAYING 31 MILLION FOR BERBATOV BEFORE SIGNING UP TEVEZ WAS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO A PLAYER WHO HAD PLAYED HIS HEART OUT FOR US FOR TWO SEASONS HELPING US WIN AND DEFEND TROPHIES.
WE SHOULD HAVE SIGNED HIM UP END OF STORY.
Costas, football fans can be won back. I for one hope he still proves me wrong and turns into the player I thought we were going to get (maybe thats my problem, I expected something different than what he is?) and starts banging them in. If Berbatov nets the winner at the weekend, I’ll jump as high as if it were Rooney or Cantona, once its a red jersey Im happy. All I have said is that I felt he hasnt delivered over the last two seasons, if he turns his form around I’ll be the first to acknowledge that. I sing any Berbatov song at games, before and after, and theres honestly no player at the club I hate, or even dont like, I just like some more than others – but who doesnt?
If we win the last few games, Berb gets a few (or creates a few) and Chelsea stumble and we win 4 in a row, we’ll all be behind him.
Fred
class mate !!!
not only that Fred, but the stats say that he was great against Arsenal twice, Chelsea twice, Milan twice, Liverpool twice, Bayern twice etc…he’s been pure class
oh no wait, he’s handycaped when it comes to playing against those
@AlphaRS
I would totally agree with that sentiment mate but we do have enough options and energy for the midfield to do thier job! Rooney doesnt have to come deep and always ensures he is the box to score or be in a position to score.
Berba doesnt know where he fits in, he drops deep briliantly and brings others in but then does not get back in the box or ahead of the midfield?
SAF has openly said he is not here for that and when he first came we played him in the wrong position.
You can prove anything with statistics 80% of people know that!!!
Berbatov makes key contributions every time he plays, the stats that matter are in the Actim Index, he is a very effective player, Goals and Assists are not everything,
http://www.premierleague.com/page/Top10Strikers/0,,12306,00.html
Fernando Torres is not even the the top 10 for this, he contributes goals and nothing else,
Chelsea will draw against bolton, I am a voodoo SPECIALIST!
LOL @ CHARACTER
nobody questioned his character when he was scoring and providing all those vital goals….
INFACT TEVEZ QUESTIONED THE CHARACTER OF OUR CLUB WHEN WE GAVE A CONTRACT TO BERBATOV BEFORE HE HIMSELF WAS SIGNED.
nobody is perfect, not you, not me, not Alec, and not United.
We should have signed him up. End of.
Fook Tevez, we’ve got Chico the kid!
Tarmy
excactly—i’d rather have berbatov than torres coz torres offers only those pesky goals
Paul Parker – And i should have shagged Pamela Anderson, but i didn’t, still bugs me to this day.
@giggs11gerrard0
I know mate. I think Berbatov picks up the ball in the centre circle and plays Valencia in on the wing against Blackburn. He was level with the central midfielders. But we were playing with Macheda upfront.
I don’t know. He just doesn’t fit in to United and these endless stats about him are getting a bit silly now.
I’m not a fan of Berbatov. Just a shame that things aren’t working out for him.
I think putting Macheda on against Bayern instead of Berba would have been a good idea.
@North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row
I understand what you mean. That’s why I said it was unfair that you would get critisized for that. If something annoys me is fans who are taking delight in Berbatov not delivering what they think he should.
Sometimes I wonder if anyone knows what they should have expected from him. His transfer fee tells one story, but it’s not as simple as that. If he cost 15-20 million, then maybe fans would have cut him more slack.
I hope we win our final 4 games, no matter if Berba scores in all 4 or if he doesn’t make the bench for any of them. At leats lets take Chelsea to the wire.
I still see we are all carrying this – I think we have all gone full circle and exhausted ourselves with the Berbatov issue
Just one thing for me is clear
If he goes it’s because the manager says so
If Tevez went – it’s because he was petulant and arrogant and he trusted the advice of his agent over SAF – we can all assume whatever we want but in the cold light of day that’s what happened between Tevez and our club – ultimately he betrayed himself aptly helped by his agent – I mean he could have gone to anywhere if he wanted to step up – unfortunately the pay check at City was much bigger and more important
But I will say this it would be very very very strange and seriously out of character if SAF went out to buy Benzema again – the manager takes things very personally as history shows and if a player says no to him then he doesn’t look back (Ronaldinho in question) – it seems that’s why he has signed someone like Chicharito. I also would not want a Madrid reject – I’m sorry our club in itself is as powerful if not more than Madrid – so all this Madrid nonsense just bewilders me – cue then most of us knowing what would happen to Ronaldo once he got there. Madrid is a circus and Benzema is a perfect example of why players are wrong to go to Madrid and think that they will be elevated into super stardom – same ways a superstar like Ronaldo can go and think that he has the ego to run the show like he did at United – difference being that at United his team carried him – at Madrid he is just one of many other ego’s who don’t understand that kind of football.
I also do believe that if Berba is sold then SAF will look at another striker – an experienced one to boot. No names suggested – don’t want to play that game
I know we all like to do our Football manager bit – but at the end for most of us anyway our manager has the final say and truthfully I will leave those decisions where they belong.
I wish our little bit of luck would just come back to us – we have worked hard to get to this point and it’s sad that our season has come to this – but we carry on
Bashing any of our players isn’t going to help – things could still change and we will have to act the 12th man to get them over the line if a chance is presented to us.
Come on reds – we are all better than this
It’s the attitude of the fans that will lead to the possible sale of Berbatov, not what he did on the pitch, or what he was supposed to do on the pitch.
I find it bizarre that we have fans who are so passionately against one of our own players they would spend an entire day on the internet slagging him off and taking the piss out of him.
I despair!
It’s not even about Berbatov any more. Any one is entitled to an opinion on any of our players. But to be so obsessed with slagging off one of our own players, and that what is has become for so many of you, an obsession, is a real worry and actually pretty saddening.
To see people say they hold nothing against Tevez, despite the fact he lied about our manager, slagged off our captain, wanting to rub our noses in the fact he thought he was knocking us out of the League Cup (d’oh, celebrated a bit too soon there), has shown how far the anti-Berbatov obsession has got. Tevez is a total cunt who CHOSE to play for City instead of United, yet there are people who hold nothing against him. But Berbatov, one of our own players, the 10th highest scorer in the league, is shown with utter disrespect?! It’s absolute madness.
Still, nobody has explained why Smith was loved and Berbatov is hated. Nobody has explained why it is more important for a striker to put a tackle in (like Smith) than it is to score goals (something Berbatov has done better than all but 9 players in the league this season).
I’ll leave you to it though and we can all hope he finds a new club this summer and that Ferguson replaces him with a work horse, then we can all be happy… including Berb!
@Paul Parker
We could not be more on the same wavelength than this.
CROoney @ 15:39: ” take real madrid for example”
What was it that Jack Benny said ? “Please !” Take RM and shove it. It was terrific to see them get schooled by Barca on Saturday – it made the weekend because my Sunday morning was ruined when I saw that SAF had selected O’Shea/Neville/GIggs/Scholes/Berbatov against Blackburn after a quite different collection had been so electric in the first half against Bayern. I understand that WayneRooney wasn’t fit to play Blackburn and that Rafael was being made to sit in the corner, wearing the dunce’s cap but why were Patrice Evra and Darroninho Gibinho and Darren Fletcherinho and even Michael Carrick left out when they had done so splendidly a few days earlier – and the excuse about “rotation” or “tiredness” just doesn’t cut it because after Sunday there were going to be six days until the derby. This was just awful team selection – and SAF was well-and-truly found out by BigSam.
there’s something that one fan told me the other day(before the blackburn match ) that sums up everything perfectly…
he said : “even if berbatov goes on to score against everyone apart from city it still wouldn’t be enough for some people”…and he said it was HYPOTHETICAL….
that’s where the problem lies…with him, it’s hypothetical or highly unlikely…with rooney or even tevez, it’s possible that they would score in 4 of the last 5 games of the season
you just know that he doesn’t have the class nor consistancy to score in the last 4 or 5 games of teh run in…that tells the whole story..with him it’s hypothetical..he’s a good player, but not good enough
“What does that tell us about the standards of some United fans? Running around and looking to be working hard is a more admirable quality in a striker than scoring and creating goals. Great.”
Yes, Because all Tevez ever did was run around and “look like” he was working hard.
@ giggs11gerrard0: HaHa.. that’s the fucking enigma mate. Maybe we should buy Defoe this summer and play a front 3 of Rooney, Berbs, and Defoe? LOL
God I’d love for Berbs to get a hatrick against the bitters.. I think the real issue as a few people have already touched upon is our midfield. Once that ‘puzzle’ is sorted everything will fall into place, I’m sure of it.
Is Berbatov still carrying the knee injury??, I know fergie said he needed a op but didn’t go in the end???…
@AlphaRS
Exactley mate, the debate is ridiculous now because fans take the moral high ground and cast aspurtions as to the level of support other fans have just because they dont think Berba fits in the team.
I go home and away and never boo a player but I also watch attitudes on the pitch and Berba is hurrendous and that is why I can no longer continue saying he is world class, dont worry he will come good.
He hasnt, and he does not have the United character people are banging on about. He makes Ronaldo look like Darren Flecther in comparison. His attitude on the pitch is a disgrace.
wesley sneijder anyone??
denton davey – i enjoyed in barca trashing real even more so..because messi brought me 200 euros…anyway, that’s not my point – i hate both teams…one are racists and others are arrogant pricks who act like paris hilton when beign dumped…goes shopping
at scott – this is not about bashing on one of our players, at leats not with me…i just want to point out that no one had to right to be arrogant or to insult me when i said that tevez was better for us and that we will see you at the end of the season…i said that on one of your articles in teh beginnig of the season…told you all so
how do you explain the fact that most of his goals came after we had already taken the lead
MG is spot on about Benzema. I am puzzled at our fans’ desire to have him at Utd. He rejected us, ffs. He obviously knew he won’t play as much as he would like to at Real so that can’t be an excuse. He only went because he couldn’t believe they wanted him, and jumped at the chance to be part of a star-studded team which guaranteed heaps of trophies. As for his ‘Dream’, that’s just bollocks. Before Real came in he reiterated his desire to play in England many times. And for those who are saying ‘we would have the most lethal strike force in the world with Rooney and Benzema’… Well, 1. How the fuck do you know he will play well with Wayne and 2. What if he struggles in this League?
stats mean nothing if he’s doing it against Burnly at home etc… and not in the big games when we need a vital goal like at Blackburn last week.
I’m a United fan i dont like Tevez but i’d have him over berbatov. Berbatov is not a big game and consistant player.
Tevez is the better premiership player, we should have signed him up the season we signed Berba. People also under-estimate what a busy player like him can do to another team and thus creating space for others and keeping the pressure on. Keeping teams under pressure helps create late goals.
Fergie clearly doesn’t have enough faith in Berba to play him against bayern at home and would rather play a crocked Rooney and risk further injury. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS??????
This is the last time i visit a Berbatov article. I’m sick of stats, they never tell the full story.
sorry for horrible typos , spelling and all…
Fred – He scored 5 goals in 1856 minutes (over 30 hours) last season. That suggests he did a lot more running around than he did scoring goals, which in case you forgot, is the job of a striker.
Berbatov has played less football this season than Tevez did last, but has scored 7 more goals, and assisted double as many goals. But he hasn’t run around as much.
I mean, why would we want our striker to score and assist more goals??
It’s a vicious circle, we all should agree to disagree on Berba and i hope our team thrash the blue half on Saturday.
anyway scott – do you really think that those 2 percent in berba’s first season compared to tevez best season for us is really enough for you to say that berba actually scores goals unlike tevez…
you make it sound as if we’re debating about ruud and david bellion ffs…berba has maybe done 2 percent better in contributing to the goals but tevez contributed to more succes and his goals were more important…and when you put the CL into perspective you’ll have a pretty clear picture of who’s better
Fze123 – Shearer turned us down, but it didn’t stop saf trying to sign him again.
This was what I was on about if nobody seen the post:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/10/dimitar-berbatov-operation-manchester-united
It was some time ago now so possibly had it done..
Scott the Red. I commend you mate. To answer your question about why Smithy was probably higher regarded than Berbatov by our fans was simply that he put himself about. He never shirked a challenge like Berbs has done and I think some of the supporters on here want Berbatov to show that sort of passion and desire to win the ball back and try and do something when things aren’t going our way. That’s what that little cunt Tevez did for us also. With Berbs, as much as I rate and respect him, he doesn’t ‘seem’ to give the effort and energy as the likes of Smithy and Scarface. But as we all know, that’s not his game. He’s a touch and finesse man who has great creativity but at the same time he’s a Manchester United ‘striker’ and is expected to score a goal at least every other game.. it’s a tough one. But I think that’s the reasoning behind some fans having a go at him. Like I said before, our problem isn’t up front it’s our midfield that needs to be addressed and quickly. Once that’s sorted I’m sure we’ll see a different player in Berbatov. The question is will he be allowed to stay another year? I hope he does and in my opinion, rightfully so.
again scott – when debating, use their best seasons !
i use porn when i want to squeeze the pyton and i bet you use the stats
I can’t believe you are comparing Berba’s stats in his Spurs days to his present form here at United.It’s pretty obvious that he has underachieved here….you don’t need to even look at the stats for that one.
The reason fans worshipped Tevez and not Berba is because Tevez performed better than Berba.Simple as that.
CROoney – Tevez had more time on the field last season than Berbatov has had this season, yet he scored less than half the goals Berbatov has and assisted half the goals Berbatov has.
I’m not comparing Ruud to Bellion, I’m comparing Tevez with Berbatov. Tevez scored 5 goals in more time than Berbatov has scored 12 goals. So there is a big gulf there, but no, not as big as the gulf between Ruud and Bellion
But no, not really a porn man. When I went to get off, I tend to do it in real life with a woman, not by myself behind a computer screen. Each to their own and that.
Ashish – Scoring 5 goals is better than scoring 12 goals? How so?
Utdforever – Is putting yourself about a bit more important than scoring goals? Smith scored 6 and “put himself about” whilst Berbatov has scored 12 and hasn’t “put himself about”. Which is more important do you think from a striker? Goal scoring or “putting himself about”?
CROoney – lol, i hear that.
Scott the Red – My criticism of berbatov is he lacks the drive to get the ball twist turn and run at defenders because he is a deepline striker he needs to be box to box or he becomes ineffective in the critical area’s of the field, he has great skill and amazing technical ability but sometimes there is not much end product in terms of stinging where it counts for all strikers which is in the final third. Berbatov goes into area’s where he is not going to be a potent force and he does not have the energy or the ability to bust a gut to get into the box and trouble defenders which makes life easier for defenders, yes he can create but he has to start threatening like his days at spurs maybe Fergie has been using him wrong.
But I will defend berbatov on here now because I am surprised you and many others are not picking up on this, 2008 united played with 2 strikers but has the season had progressed it became 433 and berbatov is a tactical nightmare. Now berbatov is a striker that has to start games when he is benched he is not much of an asset because he cant really change the tempo or make enough of an impact off the bench, Berbatov has been unlucky turn of events have now gone against him that Fergie has gone with a formation which is totally different from his spurs days, it does not help the boss berbatov is a tactical nightmare but it as not helped berbatov the midfield is to weak to play a 2 man midfield. It is a nightmare for both berbatov and the boss that uniteds midfield is to weak to play a 2 man midfield and berbatov is a 442/424 striker and he cannot fit into a 433 so it is a rock and a hard place.
Scott come on mate, its not like people are hijacking a thread about HERNANDEZ or anything.
SINCE WE SIGNED HERNANDEZ YOU’VE POSTED MORE ABOUT TEVEZ THEN HIM
So its not like people are randomly slagging off Berbatov, we are just responding to YOU comparing Tevez and Berbatov, like your post today.
I take that back.
I AM responding to you, I dont speak for anybody else here, I haven’t slagged off Berbatov once but I know others have. But thats their choice and their right. Eitherway im not slagging him off, but Scott if you compare Tevez and Berbatov and attempt to say that Berbatov is somehow a better player of course people will have their opinion.
So to answer the comparison you’ve made, Seriously, even Berbatov would probably tell you Tevez is a better player and has had a better season AND did more for United then Berbatov has thus far.
Dimmi seems like a nice fella, so im sure he would admit all that.
You should interview him next and ask. that will surely settle the debate once and for all.
But if you dont want to see the debate on your site Scott, stop bloody comparing them mate!
On that note I want to offer different statistics, more important ones, and then I’ll ignore the intention of this thread which is for the readers to compare Berbatov to other players.
I think its a good debate to be honest, I dont see the problem, thats what Blogs are for, Christ if we were all on here overlooking Berbatovs CLEAR failure to be successful at United thus far this would be a bollocks site would it not?
@giggs11gerrard0
I agree mate. Just can’t be asked with all these slanderous accusations that you aren’t a real fan if you don’t think Berbatov fits in to the United system or that you know nothing about football if you don’t think Berbatov is class. I have a season ticket and that is more than I can say than some. Not that it makes me any more of a fan. It just get’s stupid and out of hand. Simply saying Berbatov is “class” or “shite” isn’t good enough. But if you are backing up your opinions with soundly thought out arguements I don’t see what the problem is. This is a blog after all.
I disagree with booing any player in a United shirt but his attitude at the Blackburn game was extremely poor. Berating younger players and slapping his hands when people weren’t in the right positions. Atleast Tevez had the right attitude on the pitch even if he had the wrong attitude off it. It must have really annoyed him seeing SAF signing Berbatov for £31 million and keeping him waiting for his contract.
I don’t know. I’m fed up of all this now. All this bad attitude just isn’t the United way is it?
STR
I rate Berba and think his lack of impact is because of our weak midfield
However if SAF doesn’t play him against City, then why keep him next year. It was obvious he was so desperate to succeed on Saturday and we wouldnt be talking about him leaving today had Valencia scored a simple goal, assisted by berbatov
@ willierednut, well Shearer was a proven player, for club and country, and was playing at the highest level at the time. How do we know Benzema will be a success here? He is not worth forking out 35 million to bring him here, it’s too much of a risk. He only played in Ligue 1, and rarely plays for Real or France even.
bu I will say time and time again unless a top class midfielder is signed and a formation chance to 442/424 we will never ever see the best of berbatov it is has simple has that our inability to play a 2 man midfield is the reason why we dont see the best of berbatov
In my humble opinion,there’s only 1 statistic that needs to be looked at:
This season:
Dimitar Berbatov:39 games 12 goals
Carlos Tevez:37 games 28 goals
Berbatov had every right to berate his temamates when they can’t play a simple ball to feet. I’m sorry midfielders are supoosed to be excellent passers of the ball. Sometimes the ball needs to be played into space but not every time.
Paul Parker – So Tevez scored 5 goals in more time than Berbatov scored 12, and that makes him a better player for United? Sorry. I would rather a player who scores 12 goals in the league than 5. I would rather a player who assists 6 goals not 3. That is my opinion.
Tevez was sidelined on the bench for a lot of last season, Berbatov has been sidelined for a lot of this season. That’s down to Ferguson. When Tevez wasn’t the main man at United, he bitched and moaned and scored 5 goals. When Berbatov isn’t the main man at United, he kept quiet and scored 12 goals.
You look to Tevez of 07-08 all you like but clearly the boss doesn’t fancy our midfield enough to play 442 any more. Even when we had sodding Ronaldo in the team the boss wanted to pad out the midfield with more players to compensate for the fact they weren’t quite good enough, not quite world class. So after Rooney, our second striker has to be a player who can do a job as a bit role player. Tevez scored 5 goals in this role, Berbatov scored 12.
Fze123 – First mate, he wouldn’t cost 35 million now and saf must think kids got potential, because he was willing to pay 25 million for him in the summer.
Paul Parker says:”Christ if we were all on here overlooking Berbatovs CLEAR failure to be successful at United thus far this would be a bollocks site would it not?”
Lolzzz :-p
Scott, i think you are obessed with Berbatov. I have answer your question to the tevez and Berbatov. But i’m sure you have not seen it.
The one reason and the most important ones is Tevez and Smith bring confidence and hope with our never say die spirit whereas Berbatov brings petulance and moaning with frustration and this demoralize the whole team. This is the most important reason why other fans loves tevez and Smith.
Consider your reaction to Ronaldo last season for his petulance of being sub. I find it really weird that you support him after he berated at many of our team mates against Blackburn. What happen to you? Are you Berbatov?
willierednut – why are everyone linking united with a striker when they have signed the mexican forward all united need is a midfield general and the whole thing will come together its been the 433 formation why we dont see the best of berbatov I wonder how we would cope with an alonzo type midfielder alongside fletcher with valencia nani and rooney supporting berbatov we would see a far more veriaty of goals and berbatov would score double the rate we are seeing
@Fred
Um, no.. that was not a joke. Especially coming from the guy who can’t say one thing without being sarcastic. F*ck off.
Shall we all just pretend we don’t have a striker that is called Berbatov? Seriously, I agree with those who said he should leave the clun for his own sake. Even if he does a Fletcher/Nani there will be still criticism. He will always be a failure, a flop, as long as he stays at this club. After the 4-0 win against Bolton some fans were still not happy with his contribution, saying he misses too many chances before finally scoring.
I agree 4-4-2 would be better for berbatov as he doesn’t have rooney’s energy ..
@Ashish
What about this stat?
2. Manchester United
4. Manchester City
I’d say the team’s overall performance is far more important than individual stats, no?
It’s as unreasonable to expect Berbatov to ‘step up’ as it is for Giggs or Scholes to replace Rooney. Berbatov isn’t and has never been a goalscorer, he’s a playmaker. As Scott said, great player, but if we’re not going to accomodate him into the team, then it’s pointless keeping hold of him. I wish him well if he does leave.
And kel, Berbatov has never moaned once about being benched. Tevez did all the time. Tevez has had a good season this season but who the fuck thought he would score this many goals? For us, he was shit in front of goal, end of.
We have nothing to lose against City
Why dont we just go for it and play 4-4-2 with our wide men on form
Hopefully Rooney will be back…damn I wish Owen was fit…he and Berba play beuatifully together..the perfect partnership
Curse the FA and their disgusting Wembley pitch
RTNK – Yeah, we need a top midfielder, but who do you go for because there ain’t that many about.
Kel – So a “never say die attitude” is more important quality in a striker than scoring goals? That’s what I’m trying to get at. Whether we call it “trying hard” or “putting themselves about” or a “never say die attitude”, whatever it is that Smith and Tevez had, that is a more important quality in a striker than scoring and assisting goals?
Alan Smith was the 44th highest scorer in the league and he was loved. Tevez was the 53rd highest scorer in the league and he was loved. Berbatov is the 10th highest scorer in the league and he is booed. As a striker, I’d say scoring and assisting goals is more important than a “never say die” attitude.
Fabio – like I said 433 is the reason why berbatov has struggled but a formation change to see the best of berbatov, would anyone play 433 with the 99 squad no because they were built to play 442
Okay, until this issue rears its ugly head again
I wanna make one last point today.
HERE ARE SOME STATS OF MY OWN
Berbatov v Tevez is a divisive but im sure we can all agree that Manchester City are a shite club with consecutive shite managers, correct?
Well,hate him or love him, and despite having to play in front of a shite midfield, and under a shite manager, Carlos Tevez has managed to do the following with “shity city” this season:
SCORE ONCE AGAINST ARSENAL
(mind you, he’s only played them once knocking them out the cup)
THREE TIMES AGAINST CHELSEA HOME AND AWAY
(the winner at home and 2 in the big victory at the Bridge aka a double)
AND THREE TIMES AGAINST UNITED
(not bad – a goal per game against us this season, so far…)
NO GOALS AGAINST LIVERPOOL
(and thats only because he hasnt played them this season)
So, against the Big Four, you could statistically argue that Tevez has done MORE for United this season then Berbatov has against the Big Four. Fuck the other statistics.
Am I lying?
How many points has Berbatov made the Big Four drop? ZERO.
Tevez has taken 6 Points off Chelsea this season, THATS 6 MORE THEN WE’VE MANAGED, and he scored the opener to knock Arsenal out of the Cup. He nearly knocked UNITED out of the cup if not for the brilliance of Rooney. Finally, his goals more then any other at City will see them in Europe alongside us next year. Remember when Man City in Europe was a joke? Whose laughing now? Im fucking not. I knew he would be Amazing at City, he was Great for us.
As for Berbatov?
Stop comparing him to Tevez its not fair and its divisive.
Tevez is clearly the better player, and he’s 3 years younger,
in fact when he’s hitting his peak Berbatov will be retiring.
So instead of insulting him and bringing him up on ROM you should be hoping he doesnt continue his unparalleled scoring record against us. Considering the teams we’ve faced this season, correct me if im wrong but I think he has scored more goals against us then any other. Am I wrong ?
NORMALLY WE SIGN PLAYERS WHO DO THAT OOPS TOO LATE !!!!!
As far as im concerned Tevez continues to show his worth, he nearly brought his new club their first cup for decades before Rooney kicked them out, and now he is their top scorer taking them into Europe. He said himself he wanted to make them a big club, and now that they can offer Champions League football WHO KNOWS who they’ll sign this summer….
But as a MANCHESTER UNITED SUPPORTER through and through, im not worried about what they do over there. Fuck Them. Im not even sure why defending Berbatov requires Tevez to be mentioned on ROM at all to be honest. Fuck City. I have faith that Alec will get us back on course next season.
We will March On – so stop mentioning Tevez because it makes us sound bitter.
IMO United this season are a worse team without him and we’re still waiting to sign a better player to replace him. Berbatov is not a better player. Hopefully this Mexican Kid or one of our Youngsters will give Tevez a run for his money next season and finally lay his ghost to rest. If Berbatov was really world class for us Tevez wouldnt even be mentioned on ROM would he? Think about it, would Berbatov be City’s top goal scorer taking them into Europe if he signed with them before this season? Of course not. City probably wouldnt be 4th if Berbatov went there and we wouldnt be 2nd if Tevez stayed. Just y opinion since ROM has raised the topic. If you dont wanna hear/read it then Stop comparing these two Strikers.
End Of.
Scott, So scoring goals and not bring belief to the team is important. Then i feel Berbatov does not fit in this because he scores 12 goals?
willierednut – if we cant get a class act in the mould of a alonzo or fabrigas I would sign a midfield destryer say lessana diarra play to destroyers like diarra and fletcher and allow valencia nani rooney berbatov do the damage
that means fletcher and diarra have the energy of 3 midfielders that solves that problem and you have the quality of the front 4 so you get more veriaty and you see the best of berbatov with valencia nani creating while rooney has more help also.
Paul Parker – What Tevez has done for City this season doesn’t explain why Tevez was loved by United fans despite being the 53rd highest scorer in the league and why Berbatov is hated despite being the 10th highest scorer in the league.
Where in this article does it say “who is the better player, Tevez or Berbatov?”. It doesn’t. It merely looks at what the two players contributed to the team and the contrasting receptions they’ve had from the fans.
Tevez scored 5 goals and our fans disrespected the manager for him. Berbatov has 12 goals and our fans boo him.
Talk about Tevez at City as much as you like but that doesn’t address the issues being raised in this article. Shame you take all that time to make your “last point” one that doesn’t even respond to what was being discussed in the post though.
Berbatov did moan, berated at his team mate when he is on the pitch, not being sub.
I feel this is much worst than doing off pitch as it influence the team on play.
for those of you who says berba doesnt fight to win the ball back.. for one he rarely looses the ball.. each time he has the ball he has very good control.. secondly I have often seen berba track back and won balls when berba or someone else has lost them.. someone here is only interested in berba to be as bad as possible, because they believe he is the reason Tevez, I hate to write the name of that ugly fucker, signed for city..
@ Kel 16:36
“Are you Berbatov?” LMFAO God that’s funny..
@ Scott The Red
Mate, I’m not saying I would rather have a smithy type player who put himself about as our striker. It was his lack of goals and his physical attributes that made SAF put him in as our midfield enforcer. I was trying to answer your question as to why some of our supporters loved smithy/tevez and not Berbs. Workrate, belief, confidence.. these are attributes of players like smithy/argy cunt and these are attributes that berbs, in the eyes of some supporters, lacks significantly. Kel hit it on the head with his post @ 16:36.
I for one think berbs has a future at Utd as I mentioned earlier.. we need to sort our midfield to get results from him though and until that happens we’re buggered.
@rooney the new king:correct mate, agreed, I hate playing preservative 4-5-1 or 4-4-3, it just doesn’t have the balance for us..
@rooney the new king
Apparantely we have a CM destroyer by the name of Hargreaves. I thought he was to play in the run in. He must be on the bench against CITY
I would buy Rodwell, Milner and Silva in the summer and get rid of Carrick, O’Shea and loan out Welbeck, Fabio, Diouf and maybe Obertan
Our fans suck, if Chelsea win the title half of them can fuck off and support them like the glory hunters there are. Half the solutions I ever see by ‘united fans’ are ‘sell A, B and C because they are the obvious reasons we have failed to win the title even though we have a team of 11 men and the man who gets all the blame is the one who hasn’t played in half our defeats. Nice logic.’
To all those that think buying David Villa, David Silva etc etc etc will solve all our problems, there’s a reason you aren’t manager of the team and you’d do much better to get behind all our players and cheer them in our games. The fact that some of our ‘fans’ boo’d Berbatov says it all, fuck off.
Let’s be honest. If United had qualified for the semi finals and were still one point above Chelsea we would never even be having such a discussion.
Why is everyone overlooking the fact that the real problem on Sunday was lying in the midfield?
The irony is, the only good opportunity was created by the foot of Berbatov. Would we be even be arguing if Valencia had scored? I highly doubt it.
Sayyid – I am looking at someone who can play nearly every game not 2 games every 12. It is like saying we could have had faith in saha it is suicidel
Sayyid – How much money do you think we have?
Credit to inmoscowwemadeit3, whose post yesterday this is based on.
Here are Tevez’s most significant performances for us.
07/08
Liverpool away 1-0, Tevez scores winner
Chelsea home 2-0, Tevez gave us the lead
Spurs away 1-1, Tevez last gasp equaliser
Lyon away 1-1, Tevez last gasp equaliser
Roma home 1-0, 07/08 Tevez winner
Blackburn away 1-1, Tevez last gasp equaliser
Barcelona home 1-0, in Rooney’s absence Tevez leads from the front in an epic United performance
European Cup Final won 6-5 on penalties, Tevez scores penalty
08/09
Stoke away 1-0, last gasp winner
Porto home 2-2, comes off bench to change game, scoring equaliser
Spurs home 5-2, comes off bench with United 0-2 down, turns game around*
Wigan away 2-1, comes off bench to change game, scoring equaliser
*”We needed a lift. Carlos Tevez provided it. He got the crowd up and started to find space. He was a big reason why we got the result.” – Wayne Rooney
Oh, and he ran around a lot too.
What are your favourite Berba moments? Mine are the winner at Bolton and the skill against West Ham. What a player.
Fred
How about Berba’s overhead kick against Sunderland during the 2-2 draw when he was the only good player on the pitch?
We can’t play Scholes and Giggs as our 2 man midfield in a 4-4-2 either. The fact is when Berbatov comes deep, as Rooney does frequently (GOD FORBID?!?!?) the midfielders SHOULD be looking to overlap, however (bless their cotton socks) they don’t have the legs for it anymore and we would exposed should we lose possession.
@Che Guevarist
Absolutely spot on
Lol why don’t we pay £50m for fabregas. I am sure cheapskate Wenger would accept!
@ Tarmy
Yeah, wouldn’t want to score too many goals now would we? Torres is shit!!
@Chrispiano: In all the years I’ve never and will never boo OUR PLAYER, we all know who are the real supporters are and the ones who get soooooo wound up about this and that havent been following us long, we do it the united way and it’s NEVER straight forward…
We will fight fight fight for united till we win the football league..
@willierednut
Fergie admitted we bid £30m for Benzema and we also bid £25m for Tevez, so we obviously have last years transfer kitty plus the normal £30m a year to spend plus any player sales
I’ve got it, give Barca 200 million for Messi and give 150 million for Pato.
Scott
“Tevez had more time on the field last season than Berbatov has had this season”
again, are you derranged mate !? why do you keep comparing tevez last season ?!
your hatred towards the player makes you look childish…
oh and i knew you’d answer it in the way you did ( that you use woman )…it was a joke mate
@ Calum98………………………………… Pmsl Thats copywrite mate, those are my words.From the after match comments against Bayern, naughty naughty boy. lol
@Che Guevarist
“Let’s be honest. If United had qualified for the semi finals and were still one point above Chelsea we would never even be having such a discussion.”
You can’t see the woods for the trees, mate.
“Why is everyone overlooking the fact that the real problem on Sunday was lying in the midfield?”
Because this article is about Berbatov.
“The irony is, the only good opportunity was created by the foot of Berbatov. Would we be even be arguing if Valencia had scored? I highly doubt it.”
What about the three or four opportunities Berbatov wasted?
Had enough of this Berbatov debate, maybe SAF should let him go because this environment just inst conducive for a player. If by some financial miracle we bought Messi from Barcelona and he didn’t bang in goals at the snap of our fingers, what will we call him them, MessiFlop ?
And another thing, we’re talking about best positions and formations, the truth is Rooney is the one who should playing around the 18 yard box and linking midfield with attack, i don’t want a player of his talent turning into a Van Nistelrooy. So why doesn’t SAF play him BEHIND Berba, because he knows he probably wont be effective enough.
I know its sound crazy, but what does that tell you, our midfield is crying out for a serious revamp, be it through new training regime or new players there needs to be a change in the middle of the park. My observation may be a bit short sighted but the only thing that should remain constant in the midfield is Fletcher, the rest of the players have to stand up and show their mettle from Hargo to Cleverly
And before anyone says rooney wants to play in advanced role i will say playing behind a striker is an advanced role, just not at the focal point of the attack. We all want him to improve his all round game including goal scoring but he ain’t gonna be the player we say on his debut if we keep playing a 4-3-3 or formation where he’s the out and out forward .
Oh and Veron would have been a success at United if SAF had let him get on with it. How would he have done that? simple , he should have let Keane step down as our midfield general. Correct me if i’m wrong but didn’t Keane leave a season or so after Veron left. People were already on his back saying all he did was pass sideways and backwards.
He was influential don’t get me wrong, we needed someone like him around the younger players but he definitely should have stepped aside . Midfield people,midfield, we sort it out there and our strikers will finally have a chance at proving doubters wrong.
@willierednut
How much money would we make if Messi signed for us…probably £100m just in shirts,new sponsorship and then all the prize money for winning the CL every other year
I agree lets get Messi!
Scott – listen to Fred
he’s speaks sence
Silva will cost at least 25, 30 million. Rodwell will cost at least 20 million and Milner will probaly cost between 15 and 20 million. We don’t have that kind of money.
Berbatov V Tevez this season, only one winner. Says it all.
@Che
“How about Berba’s overhead kick against Sunderland during the 2-2 draw when he was the only good player on the pitch?”
Yep that’s two of his three greatest performances for United we’ve got:
1. Winning header away to Bolton Wanderers
2. ?????
3. First equaliser in 2-2 home draw with Sunderland
Let’s see if anyone remembers his other classic moment for us…
Fred
Three or four opportunities?
One Volley from 16 metres, thats all I can recall.. and one when it was many players in the box and his shot was blocked.. that was 2 opportunities.. and to say that he wasted them was VERY VERY harsh when you think about how many chances midfield should actually create in one match to actually blame the striker for a loss at all
We dont need any fucking wingers. Two world class central midfielders and a striker.
Slim – did you just say we should have got rid of Keane and kept Veron?
Scott, Are you incapable of writting something that DOESN’T include Tevez. You seem totally obsessed with the guy!I thought your Headline today, and yesterday, was about Berbatov??!! Now that’s bizarre!
There have been countless emails today from fans saying why they like/dislike Berbatov, Smith and your mate,Tevez. So it HAS been explained. But for the third time, our fans like a player to give their all and he hasn’t in many people’s eyes. It really is as simple as that. When Tevez or Smith tried something but lost the ball they worked hard to get it back. The fans appreciated that and remembered it. When things we’ren’t going well for them i.e. when they weren’t scoring goals, they still worked hard – that includes Rooney too. Fans don’t forget that. Make a mistake, try and fix it. That’s a player with a good attitude.
None of us have excused Tevez’ behaviour. He’s a cunt. Plain and simple. But we’re not talking about his personaility here. We’re not even talking about him, here. You are. All the examples have been about what he has contributed as a player.
This whole thing is about whether Berbatov is good enough to play for our club. You seem well pissed off that quite a few people don’t agree with you.
I appreciate that the idiots booing Berbatov annoyed you on Sunday, but don’t confuse the two issues relating to fans treatment of him at the weekend and whether he should be playing for us.
I’ll give you a clue: it was at home to mid-table opposition (surprise, surprise.)
@ willie, ohhhh yes we do, this is a bit like Punch and Judy, ohhhhhh no we dont.
I’v withdrawn my g/f using my debit card , give it to SAF, be fucking cheaper.
@ross
“I appreciate that the idiots booing Berbatov annoyed you on Sunday, but don’t confuse the two issues relating to fans treatment of him at the weekend and whether he should be playing for us.”
This. Very good point.
let me tell you this – i preffer bendtner to berbatov…he has scored only 2 goals less than berba yet he scored some absolutely crucial late goals…i’d have that ability on my side any day ahead of the ball holding ability
btw – the title of this article only hides the initial intention of the author – and that is berba stats vs tevez stats….admit it scott, you put the name of the title and alan smith only to mask your true intention
@ Fred
The furore regarding Berba really got going after Sunday’s performance, so it’s only normal I refer to this game, where, again, our midfield was inexistent. The chances he got were at best half-chances, while the only clear-cut chance was created by him. Saying that not just Berba was at fault Sunday is,in essence, talking about Berba, which as you point out, this article is about.
btw – berba is the most waster of chances like ever…from the top of the head 3 sitters agains city, 1 against villa, 1 against arsenal, 1 against chelses, 1 against blackburn, 1 or 2 against bolton or fulham, i can’t remember
I was firmly in the camp that said Berba would turn it around and pick up the slack in Rooney’s absence. He hasn’t. I no longer believe he, mentally, has what it takes to succeed here. That may not have always been the case but now, it’s clear that the the mental aspect of success at united is not something within his grasp. He looks frustrated, annoyed, and unhappy. Even when he scores, I seem more relief than genuine joy and certainly none of that Cantona-esque attitude that a player of his skill should have. Berba will be gone this summer, fairly or not.
Paul Parker
As you said stats don’t tell the whole story.
Tevez’s 3 goals vs Chelsea
Free kick at home. Went through the wall and Cech fucked up.
Penalty
Disastrous keeping against a shot that was moving literally at 30cm/s
Goal vs Arsenal.
Against their Carling Cup team which is pretty much their youth squad, amazing…… I’m sure if we bothered to have played Berbatov in the early rounds of the Carling cup vs Wolves and Barnsley this season he would have scored too.
Fred clearly you are suffering from a selective memory.
Berbatov securing the points 08/09:
Assist for Tevez’s first against Liverpool in the 2-1 loss
Assist for Park in 1-1 draw against Chelsea.
Scored against Middlesborough in the 1-0 win
3-0 against Chelsea, an assist for Vidic’s first and then the 3rd goal.
90th minute goal against Bolton away to secure a 1-0 victory.
2-1 against Newcastle, he scored the second when it was 1-1.
09/10:
Opener in the 2-0 win over Stoke.
Equaliser in the 2-2 draw against Sunderland (when the rest of the team were playing shit and it looked like we were going to lose)
Opener against Blackburn in 2-0 win.
Opener against Burnley in 3-0 win.
Opener against Everton in 3-1 loss, (he was substituted at 1-1 because our midfield were playing so badly.)
Put the result to bed vs Fulham in 3-0 win when they were getting back in it, 1 assist and a goal.
2 goals vs Bolton away.
Why is this benzema nonsense coming up again? I will eat my own excrement before i welcome that c*nt benzema here. We are Manchester United, we don’t give second chances and nor do we let anyone bitch us around. The french wanker can f*ck his career at the mob and I don’t give a sh*t. Besides he’s been shite over there anyway so I really have a hard time understanding those who STILL wants him here.
redscot – I know mate, some people think this is championship manager and not real life.
@ Slim 17:06.
“Midfield people,midfield, we sort it out there and our strikers will finally have a chance at proving doubters wrong.”
Can I get an Amen?! LOL… well said.
Our shortcomings haven’t been because of our attack it’s our midfield.. we need steal and creativity. Fletcher is there. My hero Scholes needs to be replaced (Rodwell anyone?) Carrick needs to seriously improve after an sub-par year. Ando needs to stay fit and prove he is worth the money spent. Hargreaves is the player we so desperately need fit, if we can’t keep him fit we need to sign another midfield destroyer, this summer, no ifs ands or buts. Our wingers are fine.. we’ve got class in Nani and Valencia with Park as some defensive cover in big games when need be.
We are almost there and SAF knows that a few tweaks in the summer and we can be world beaters. Lets stay United guys.. all this bickering reminds me of what United isn’t.. we need to stay together, to have faith in SAF, if he thinks Berbs is good enough then he will stay, simple as, if not, he’s gone. We live by the sword and we die by the sword but we are still UNITED
Sorry Pal, didn’t see you other post to me, I wish I had all day to write on ROM, lol, I don’t.
Listen Scott, I can admit that I can see where YOUR comming from even though I completely disagree.
but im not sure you see where IM coming from?
You write as if you’re completely at a loss as to why Supporters, no less Supporters then you I might add, consider Berbatov as a failure.
thats Ok. Its your blog. But in response to your first post to me:
Firstly your only using League stats, thats fine with me, but I generally consider TOTAL goals scored to be more relevant. For instance, if Rooney scored fuck all Zero goals in the league but scored in every single game in Europe and then scored the winner in the final against Barcelona I wouldnt give a flying fuck about his league form. Would you? It wouldnt matter to me that he didnt score anything in the League.
So when you keep saying Tevez scored 5 last year and Berbatov scored 12 this season, thats Bollocks pal. Sorry. Its not telling the whole picture.
Tevez last season TOTAL goals 15
Berbatov this season TOTAL goals 12
So Berbatov has another 3 goals to score before he matches Tevez last year. Your comparison not mine mate.
But like I said, we disagree, but at least I openly admit to seeing your side of the argument, I dont think you see mine,
which I think is odd.
but thats fine, I’d much much much rather be discussing Hernandez anyway.
So instead of comparing Berbatov to Tevez and co (again) why don’t you concentrate on our new signing instead?
Introduce him to ROM.
We already know the Media consider his signature a sign of our demise as a Powerhouse in European Football.
So why don’t you tell us more about our new striker instead of continuously defending Berbatov?
Good players don’t need defending, do they? Lets see what he does against Manchester City….
Might I add that nothing I’ve said makes me a Berba Basher?
Christ, no player is beyond reproach at United. Do not forget that people.
Like you mentioned in the other thread, Scott, Macheda did Eff all against Blackburn. It’s a big ask to step into Rooney’s shoes for any player though. Kiko’s young, missing match sharpness etc, but if we’re to operate a blame culture then those looking for a simple answer could look to him. Berba’s arm waving had a lot to do with Kiko’s movement and/or lack of movement, but the Boo boys obviously looked to justify their beliefs (that they are right and that Berba should go). When Berba held on to the ball for too long, nobody thought to question the lack of movement around him.
I’m not giving up on Kiko, though. I just think that the last 2 weeks have seen us lose sharpness after all the injuries earlier in the season. I can understand people wanting the midfield strengthened, but personally I’m happy with the prospect of Hargreaves and Anderson returning to help out our other world class midfielders.
There’s been a noticeable absence of comments regarding the lack of a fit Michael Owen and I think things would be very different were he around to replace Rooney’s movement around the opposition defensive line. Berbatov and Owen were a great partnership in pre-season, when Rooney was Cack.
@ willie ohhh right, so its not for real! thanks for that. Looking forward to the match tonight, I noticed someone said that had a Voodoo Doll. Dirty dirty bastards. lol
I think we might get a wee bit luck tonight, well hoping.
Again, Shearer turned us down, but we still went for him again.
@Sprite – the blocked shot he couldn’t have done much better with tbf, but the the weak shot from inside the box straight at Robinson, and the ridiculous volley were very poor. There was also a chance in the first half when he got through on goal but tumbled quite easily under a bit of pressure from Ryan Nelsen, though Nelsen was arguably fouling him.
@ North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row says
No not got rid off him but allow Veron to play as the midfield enforcer. It was never gonna work with Keane and Veron occupying the midfield slot. Saw no reason to rotate the two of them considering Keane was getting close to hanging his boots, in fact that could have helped Keano, much like the way Giggs and Scholes are rested from time to time
@Willie I just cant be bothered with the Dimitar/Kettleneck debate, its like comparing a burd with nice tits and a burd with a nice @ss two completely different animals, But I am in the Dimitar camp, because he is a United player.Simples end off.
fucking hell getting heated on here today aint it….. I was one of those who was fed up with Berba’s petulance on Sunday and said so on a blog ….. I even went a bit far as well calling for him to go but in the sober light of day realise that we have to keep him…he is a really misunderstood player that SAF needs to work his magic around (ala Nani) once he can upgrade the midfield and strengthen that up we will be able to field 2 strikers and that should suit Berba working just behind Wazza…..
and i rather have Berba in my team than 10 Smiths or 10 Tevez’s
I’ll play for Utd for free.. I’m a striker with a wicked left foot. Fergie .. Sign me up! FERGIE FERGIE SIGN ME UP!! Lol
I have to fuck off now and get some work done… Great debate today though. Oh, and when I said Scholesy needs to be replaced, it doesn’t mean I don’t think he can contribute to our cause next season, just a bit part can do us the world of good. Legend.
Scott, how dare you use facts? You should know better. Sheesh.
When was the last time a player has divided our fans as much as Berba has?
And Scott you some of the fans have been slagging off Carrick as well. I just can’t get my head around that. It just beggars belief how people turn on their own players. Somehow we have the divine right to win everything and if we don’t we need to sack the manager and sell everyone.
sinred – Andy Cole.
And as for trying to sign that bullet headed cunt Shearer twice….that was just for Keano, so he could kick the fucking shit outta the Geordie fuckpig every day stead of on MATCH DAYS…LOL
SHEARER WAS A CUNT THEN AND IS AN EVEN BIGGER CUNT NOW
what i wanna know is when will King Cantona come back, we complain about pundits and ex players talking shit in the media, i wish we had him in some capacity working for the club, heard he got an award the other day
xol kiko just had 3 games from long term injury
berbatov didn’t.
@ Costas
I don’t think you can say they have stalled his development. He’s only 22. It’s not as bad as someone being injured for a season yet I’m sure you’re looking forward to Hargreaves coming back? The guy’s attributes make him perfect for the Premier League and for United. And at United he will be able to develop more and become a more intelligent and effective player.
So he made a rash decision at the age of 21, probably guided by “advisors” who didn’t have his best interests at heart. Who cares?
@sinred
Carrick was brough to do a job in 2006 and he has successfully done that for 2 years up until the CL final. Ever since he has been useless
Harldy any goals or assists and he’s supposed to be our CM playmaker. What a joke!!!
@ wilierednut
Some similarities then. But he fought for his place didn’t he? I hope we see that from Berba.
By similarities I mean that both Berba and Cole were competing with the fans’ favourites.
@Chrispiano
“Scored against Middlesborough in the 1-0 win
2-1 against Newcastle, he scored the second when it was 1-1.”
Fair enough, I’d honestly forgotten about these. Fair play to Berba for those winning goals.
“Opener against Blackburn in 2-0 win.” This is the other example of Berbatov doing the business for us I was thinking of.
The other games you mentioned are nothing to write home about. I only listed Tevez’s MOST IMPORTANT games for us. You’ve listed EVERYTHING Berbatov ever did for us and it still doesn’t compare, so thankyou for proving my point.
fred
you are describing a weak shot at robinson.. I really cant recall that.. you must mix up the volley and the “weak” shot..if you watch the volley over again, he does well to get a shot on target though.. the ball is boucing in a wierd way and he have to move his legs quickly and fires a shot stright at the keeper.. in my country the commentator said that right away… I doubt rooney would have scored really.. of course you wouldnt know, but how many goals has rooney scored outside the penalty area this season??
Right boys I have followed the debate/discussion all day, valid points on all sides, but still as clear as mud, the conclusion.All I know its Dimitar thats a UNITED player so he gets my 100% support through thick and thin.When he is gone, I think then we will realise what a gem we had in our possession.
A world class attacking midfielder to service him he would score a barrowload.I have on top secret information that is what/who we will sign shortly, but hay dont tell anyone ok. lol
Hope we all have a big smile on our Kissers after the match at the Bridge tonight
@macheda is god
Yeah Kiko’s lack of match sharpness showed didn’t it. Berbatov looked miles fitter than Kiko didn’t he.
@ Sayyid.
He hasn’t been great this season but that doesn’t mean we slag him off. Its been frustrating watching him this season. His confidence was shot to bits after Rome. But I would definitely want to see him next season here.
@Paul Parker “Lets see what he does against Manchester City….”
Exactly. Perfect opportunity for Berbatov to prove the “Berba bashers” wrong, isn’t it? Except he couldn’t do it at Blackburn, how the fuck is he gonna do it at City?
Let’s hope Rooney is fit enough to play 90 minutes, then we won’t have to worry about it.
I think Berbatov could work well for us as Attacking midfield. Forget about him being our strikers.
That way we wont have to debate lol.
Nah Fred I didn’t list everything he’s ever done, I only named 4 of his countless assists, and then theres the other goals that contributed to goal difference and his 4 CL goals last season as well..
@Sprite – I was talking about two seperate chances:
Chance 1 – Neville heads the ball back across the penalty area where Berbatov, with plenty of time, shoots a weak shot straight at Robinson.
Chance 2 – The ball drops unexpectedly to Berbatov, just outside the penalty area, who spins around and fires a wild shot well wide of Robinson’s right-hand post.
i miss rooney….life @ united seems dull without him… i miss chanting rooney..
reserves up in a bit maybe they can win and we dent liverpools hopes to win a title…again
@Chrispiano. Fair point, but if you think stuff like goals against Fulham, Bolton and Burnley compare favourably with things like last minute equalisers, winning goals in the biggest games or scoring a penalty in Moscow you are seriously deluded.
Our midfield is our biggest problem right now. Its obvious 4-5-1 is the prefered formation for the big games but the reason for that is our midfield is so average, and SAF feels he needs three in there for the big games. I think theres still a place for Berbatov but we need to address the centre of the park. we need a world class midfielder with abit of pace (Carrick has been a good player for us but he doesnt dominate games & no pace watsoever) to play along side fletcher & then i think we could get away with playing Berbatov with Rooney. both players are familiar with dropping of the front man so it would make sense to me when we’re defending to have one of them just drop that bit deeper and stand neer the oppositions holding midfielder doesnt matter which one. take turns. The only problem I have with Berbatov is his moaning recently, but he’s under enormous pressure. Also I dont think Fergie knows what to do with him. he said at the start of the season he was goin to play him at the top end of the pitch. the focal point. but i thnk because our midfield is so short of craft & creativity he asks berbatov to roam about like Eric did. I kind of feel sorry for him. mad init whens hes on 100k aweek.
Can’t believe I got sucked into another Berbatov v Tevez debate.
WTF does Tevez have to do with anything anyway? Tevez is not the issue here.
Stats agian about berbatov. Who cares. Hasn`t delivered when it mattered. Get out.
its so ridiculous to analyse everything he does if we would do that with every player nobody would shine at all
its okay to relive the matchday but the majority blames berba for every bad result because its the easiest thing
“Chance 1 – Neville heads the ball back across the penalty area where Berbatov, with plenty of time, shoots a weak shot straight at Robinson.”
your making it easier than it was.. he was 15 metres away from the goal.. 5 players one-two united and four blackburn players, who was running towards him, were infront of him.. it was not a sitter in a million years, maybe berbatov could have done more of it.. but it was never a sitter..
“Chance 2 – The ball drops unexpectedly to Berbatov, just outside the penalty area, who spins around and fires a wild shot well wide of Robinson’s right-hand post.”
still cant recall this.. was it towards the end of the game? early on?
chance 2 was at then end of the game but never near a sitter
Scott makes a good point about price tag, I too don’t feel he would be considered a flop if he had cost us £10m-£15m.
If we had signing him from Bayer Leverkusen for that kind of figure he would be thought of much higher than for £30m from Spurs.
I must say I don’t consider him a success here but a flop is too stronger word, a different time in a different style of team it may have worked but I think Berba’s time at United has run its course.
P.S. No to Benzema! Shearer is the only player to have turned us down and Sir Alex has had another go, I want that to remain. If we weren’t good enough for Benzema in Summer 2009 then he’s not good enough for United in 2010.
I don’t understand the point where people are trying to prove Scott wrong. Here he is, putting up a blog entry about our player, and so many people try to shoot it down. For God’s sake, this is his blog, he can write whatever he wants, and the fact that this is one of the top sites about Manchester United proves that the material he puts up is good. Some of us agree with his post and are branded in his asses, is this what some of you are becoming just because you have a different opinion? I don’t care if you are a supporter of generations or you started supporting the club yesterday, degrading and offensive comments, even if its a banter, only shows what kind of person you are, someone who just want to win a war of word by utterly having no respect for people.
Why not you go and try open your own blog and start a thread that is anti-berbatov and we will see if you have supporters in your blog.
This blog is for the good of the club, not a ground for you to win arguements, now just get lost if you are not happy with what you read here, you have no right to tell Scott what to put up
berbatov would be far more effective if fergie’s using him as a CM
From John Terry’s programme notes tonight: “We’ve never won the Double. In my life-time only Liverpool, Man United & Arsenal have. Let’s make history.”
Makes you sick as a parrott, doesn’t it.
Marq
You are right, Scott can put up whatever he wants. But then he must also be prepared to have his opinion challenged. That’s how it works.
(Not saying that Scott can’t handle dissenting views. Far from it, it looks like he can discuss a matter with the commenters without getting upset)
Having been a utd fan since the early 70`s I have seen some shite at man utd,but in the main the fans have always got behind the players.
But just lately I can honestly say I am ashamed of some of my fellow fans,if we dont win every game 5-0,they have to look for a scapegoat,utd have no devine right to win everything.
The disgraceful way that some fans behave towards one of our own players makes me sick,some of them are even made up when berba misses a chance.
I always thought utd fans were better than that,maybe the rest of the country are right about us?
I BELIEVE IN BERBA!
As any true United fan should, we should get behind our players instead of deriding them.
Also, if you are stupid and can’t develop your own opinion on Football, please stop using the opinions of footie writers and footie pundits.
Been keeping an eye on the blog but been in Bute since Friday. Still gonna read it but not comment as much. It has got very nasty on here. Anyway just have one thing to say . Tevez is a fucking cunt of the highest order. Nuff said.
http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2171/premier-league/2010/04/13/1877115/manchester-city-forward-carlos-tevez-hopes-to-play-for-west
@ Fred , yip fred not really like a parrot, squacking away like a fucking Budgie, all the more reason to wish them all the ill winds they merit!
King Eric
hi mate. How are you?
Dont do that mate. We mostly disagree but i enjoy reading you comments. I have been away myself. It was crazy after the bayern defeat. Dont let a few idiots keep you away
@KIng Eric
For what it’s worth welcome back
The dilemma – do I watch Chelski vs Bolton or do I completely ignore the fact they’re playing and look out for the full time result?
How do the performances in the big games matter in the league. We beat arsenal we get 3 points, we beat burnley we still get 3 points
rooney has Started in all the defeats Apart from Chelsea game so do we get on his back too??
@ King Eric, hay Jaysus mate you have a lot of support, you should just get stuck in again.Gives us all a laugh again.
aig – Thanks mate. Yeah I am ok thanks how are you? I don’t want to sound like some sort of martyr and want everyone to say “Wheres King Eric” but to be honest I have had enough. Every other post is sell this player and buy this player. Best one was sell fucking Sheasy! Yeah lets sell the player we have missed BADLY this season . It is getting daft mate. Heard some cunt on the radio saying how they are actually boycotting the games till Berba goes. You could not make it up. Everything was rosy till Munich away and then all of a sudden we see the usual bile. I am having to sift through the shite to read the good posts. I WILL still comment and will always follow this great blog as it is the best out there with some great people but just having a bit of a break. No doubt if we do Citeh things will all be rosy again. Saturday is a great opportunity to galvanise the shirts for the remaining 3 games.
redscot, MG – ditto
@King Eric
Don’t let the muppets take over the boards pal, hopefully if Chelski do win the league the muppets will move to the Chelski blog!
bchilds – Yeah mate lets hope so! Anyway off to watch the Reserves now.
@ Bchilds Watch the Chelski game mate, and will Bolton on easy.Owen Coyle is Scottish so he will try to do his buddie Alex a favour. Thats that sorted then 1 point to recover.
@king eric
I am good too.
Common mate. You shouldnt let some clueless idiots affect you. I was shocked myself to hear some of the comments. The worst was get rid of SAF.didnt comment myself from friday till today.
I am not just saying for the sake of it mate. its great to have you back and dont go away again. I actually tried to find out whether you were there on the forum wanting to send you mail but there was one king eric and he was 26 years old so it wasnt you.
Fergie tried the old mind games on Bolton, suggesting that Chelsea would win easily. I just can’t see Bolton getting anything from the game, in fact, the only consolation of the inevitable Chelsea thrashing is that maybe, just maybe, Bolton could still go down.
Let’s face it, Chelsea won the league at Old Trafford last Saturday. We had a chance to put some pressure on them at Ewood Park but we blew it.
@King Eric
feel your pain mate
also you have mail
Now on to this compair tevez and berbatov this season bullshit
TEVEZ DOESNT PLAY FOR UNITED THIS FUCKING SEASON SO WHO GIVES A FUCK
Scott compare Obertan to Ronaldo’s stats this season
Scott compair Micheal Owens stats to Messi this year
get your fucking head out of your holes and Start supporting the team
The King has spoken.
Bolton are rubbish. If chelsea cant break them down you always have players like j lloyd samuel ready to put the ball in their own net. They let one go in and fall apart and concede 3 or 4
Sir Alex is right, 3 easy points for Chelsea.
Thank ya, thank ya very much.
@aig, @Willie, your so wrong, the wheels will come of tonight, my prayers will be answered
Ultimately football fans can be a fickle bunch and for me we’re seeing that with Berba. Not so long ago I remember Fletch being persistantly verbally slaughted by the the row behind me – one “fan” only refered to him as ‘the maggot’ until last season ffs. Now, of course, they’ve got a new target…
@North Stand,Tier 3,Back Row –
“You dont have to agree with everything Scott and others on here say to be a ‘proper supporter’.”
is it so hard to understand ? you don’t have to bring childish things like “i think everyone here is a gloryhunter who supports the club for 2 years” in order to prove your point. i know i am a worthless person but i don’t think you are that naive to think that being a true supporter depends on the country you live or the number of years you support your club.
@Scott – post at 16:04 legendary! it really is outrageous. Season is still on.
The bottom line here is that berbatov doesnt get many goals and thats what strickers are there to do and especially a 30 mil stricker! That is there job…to score alot of goals and BErba is just not doing that at all!!!! The only positive thing about the man is he creates many goals with assists so im not even sure if you can even calll the guy a forward?????
He is more of a centre defensive midfielder to me…not an out and out attacker!
Cory Evans is gonna be a beast
@redscot
Lol. Your optimism mate.
I had hope liverpool will get something from chelsea game but those useless clowns are out of 4th place themselves.
maci..
not to ruin you magic moment, but is 12 goals in 29 games bad for a “centre defensive midfielder” ?
Ghtt
Gill is also turning into a beast.. cant believe someone was throwing abuse towards him.. another example of scumbags among our fanbase
@Corea Who said you are a worthless person,Thats a nonesense nobody is worthless everyone has a contribution in this life. Some people just dont go around banging there chests like Tarzan.
Stand up for what you believe mate.
Heal the Berb, make him a better player.
@ AIG lol well you get me, optimistic! I just wont through in the towel till its mathematically impossible
Who is the reserve game against. Whats the score???.
Any links???
@AIG “Bolton are rubbish. If chelsea cant break them down you always have players like j lloyd samuel ready to put the ball in their own net.” This gave me a good laugh.
@RedScot “Who said you are a worthless person,Thats a nonesense nobody is worthless everyone has a contribution in this life. Some people just dont go around banging there chests like Tarzan.
Stand up for what you believe mate.” Nicely put. You’re wise beyond your years, mate.
@redscot
thats great mate. unfortunately those rentboy arseholes have hit form at the right time while we are slipping a bit at the wrong time
mate 12 goals in 29 games aint good enough for me and im sure that its also not good enough for any united fan! Dont get me wrong, Berbatov is a great player with amazing skills! He holds the ball up so well and never gives it away but in my opinion he is not a stricker!
WB King Eric – well seems everyone has not really taken into context the change of formation to 433 and berbatov is now on the bench has huge factors into why berbatov has struggled, I will keep saying every player must be comfortable in a certain formation for that player to thrive, we saw rooney last year struggle on the left put him into a formation or right position he is a world beater, nearly every playe must be comfortable in a certain formation. If fergie played 352 would the likes of ferdinand vidic evra be comfortable no they are players who prefure playing in a back 4
@ Fred, shall I take a bow,,,,,, lol thank you, just like a happy ship. On the good ship lolipop, lol
but I will keep saying berbatov is a 442 striker, unfortunetly united are playing 433 2 wingers supporting striker berbatov likes to play off a striker not be the vocal point of the team and uniteds midfield is not strong enough to play a 2 so it is a rock in a hard place.
Tarzan had Jane, Berby has no – one.
redscot
wise beyond your years??. whats your age mate??
@spirit
you are bang on and i agree 100% with you i found it funny that
you say “someone” like it was one guy
there were people on this blog supporting the LUHG chants shouted at him last week instead of cheerin a kid for scoring the opening goal. Idiots at the match idiots on this
Gill is my man for the player of the year award
but he wont be at united for long not because he’s a fantastc player now not because he’s gonna be something special just because he needs protecting so he’ll leave or be sold becase of the abuse he gets FROM HIS OWN FANS
ive read on this today if you love tevez support city
but if you want to hate all over your players from first team down to reserves then FUCK OFF AND SUPPORT MILLWALL
also Obertan has speed to waste
@CaerdyddCoch
It;s different mate. Hargo didn’t waste one year at Madrid learning how not to get motivated to be the best.
The word character has been brought up a lot today. What’s Benzema’s? Does he want to play for a club like United? Or does he prefer the glamour of Madrid?
I see that King Eric returned. About fucking time.
Welcome back man.
@AIG
Liverpool 0-0 somehow United are playing very very well
brandy had a shot cleared off the line that was 99 times out of a 100 in but ill keep you posted
also nice one for the mail
@ Aig, the Drinks are on me after the match if Bolton win, and they will. I went to the church and asked the devine one for a wee favour.And while i was there I returned the collection money I nicked the last time i was in, so I think I will get my wish.
This is turning into berbaofmancunia.com.
We have seen all these stats a thousand times over. Stats never tell you the whole story. The comparisons between him and Tevez are meaningless because Tevez is clearly the better player. He was far more suited to United’s style of play and he produced on big occasions which Berbatov hasn’t done once. If Berbatov had never signed Tevez would still be at this club, but because of the transfer fee we payed for him we was never going to pay that sort of fee for Tevez. Fergie fucked up big time on this occasion. I will all ways back Fergie, he is Manchester United, but we need to realise even the great man himself can make the wrong decision. He could have handled the whole affair a lot better.
KIng ERic
you know Costas ment that as he never says fuck
Sorry havent been able to read all the posts man, just give it up, if he were really that good, this debate wouldnt be happening.
@Ghtt
thanks a lot mate.
Envy you guys that you get to watch our young lads and reserves in action. really miss it
Also good to have you back mate.Hope this can be a new beginning. Bygones are bygones.
I’d take Benzema over Aguero and Higuain every time, but also hoping that Hernandez can make a great impact in th premiership.
‘@ willie well if he read some of the posts in here the last few days , I certainly would not let him near anything sharp, and be kept away from ties.
@ Aig 18, but I am taken, lol
@Gary –
“Stats never tell you the whole story” — > “The comparisons between him and Tevez are meaningless because Tevez is clearly the better player.”
“I will all ways back Fergie” — > “Fergie fucked up big time on this occasion” “He could have handled the whole affair a lot better”
it’s a beautiful life, oh oh ooo !
Eric Cantona just scored another super strike
oh no wait that was Obertan
what a freekin beauty
redscot – Heard that one before, about you buying drinks, send me over black label vodka lol.
@Scott. You know full well that Tevez is more than just a headless chicken, I mean for christs sake the fucker scored 3 goals against us in the semi’s of the carling cup!
If we had Tevez instead of Berbatov this season we would have won the league by now, I am all most certain of that. The bloke is a fighter who has bundles of self belief, he the type of player you want on your side when the chips are down. I bet you was singing his praises after the double in 08 and rightly so because the bloke was fantastic.
@GHTT
Yeah, I am mild mannered, lol. ROM isn’t the same without the King though.
half time 1 nil united
i swear to you people if you havent seen this goal get trying to stream it
you will never get sick of watchin it
is it me or has pandoras box been opened or the berbatovbox been opened its gone into overdrive
Players having a great character, them days are long gone. Red Nev, Giggsy and Scholesy are a dying breed.
Ghtt
the language barrier devil hits me again.. I meant many many more people than one.. really think he has the mentality you need to get over such things, but time will show.. if he is off next season it is hopefully only for a loan deal mate..
@Corea
So you don’t think Fergie fucked up on this occasion? I have and will all ways back him in terms of my support for the man, he decides when he leaves Manchester United, we are in debt to the great man. His brilliant decisions far out weigh the wrong ones, BUT this was one of those rare occasions when he got it wrong! And if you don’t think so you’re are just saying so because you’re being biast to the point of ridiculous.
Berba has made great contributions to the team, this point you can not argue. One of the most insulting things anyone could have done was to “boo” a player who chose to play for us rather than $hity. I have always felt that Manchester United Fans are a cut above the rest…and for the most part we. We are better than the fans of madrid, the scouse, or chelski.
@Gary – no, i will always believe in our players. as long as we have mathematical chances i will believe we can do it.
but unfortunately chelsea are going to be crowned champions.
@ Willie a black label it is mate, Vodka ok I think the Boozer’s only got Smirinoff or some knicked stuff.Come on you trotters. 1/2
Come on you Bolton!
GHTT
How did he score it? Can’t find a stream damn it
Costas – dont you agree our debate last night on finding sollutions on how to solve positions and players like berbatov that we dont get enough on here, dont you think scott should do a topic
is sir alex ferguson’s change of formation a big factor into why berbatov is struggling
or is sir alex ferguson getting the best out of dimitar berbatov from formation to different position change
scott the red should delve into these reasons forget stats we all should discuss look at the formation of united and how fergie is using berbatov I find fergie is getting it wrong when berbatov is clearly a striker who likes to play off a striker, and for him to do that he needs a strong midfield to give him the platform to do that, because this 433 formation is making berbatov suffer even more, he cant come off the bench and change a game he needs to start games benching him has done him no favours.
I still say the formation to 433 keeping berbatov on the bench, and our midfield which is not strong enough to play a 2 man midfield the big reasons why berbatov has been struggling.
Anyone else heard the cunts on ESPN drooling over the Chav’s? Fucking disgusting. Anyone would think they had just done 3 on a spin and lifted their 4th. Fucking cunts. Talking about the size of their great squad and how they have the “luxury” to pick either Drogba or Anelka or EVEN BOTH! Fucking Anelka ain’t scored in ten yet no mention of that fact yet Berba gets fucking torn apart.
People have to get away from this Berbatov obsession and think about what is good for United for the remaining games of the season.
@ Costas
I don’t know what his character is. But as a professional footballer I would hazard a guess that he wants to be a first team player and win trophies.
Costas – Thanks alot mate.
gotta hate – Absolute screamer.
@ eric, you crack me up seriously lmao. thats what we missed
King Eric – they should ask themselves chelsea are top because of uniteds terrible injury list and losing players and united being in a transitional period, chelsea should be imbarassed they are top because united have been totaly off the pace.
@Corea
We have been spoilt on success over the years so we can not complain if we don’t end up as champions which looks unlikely. I will be giving up my season ticket as of next year because I have other commitments in life now and I don’t hold the passion that I used to because believe me my life used to revolve around Manchester United.
You and other have your views on the Berbatov/Tevez debate and I can appreciate that. At the end of the day not everyone one will agree but we will all ways support the club. I just feel like some United fans are quick to dismiss Tevez as a headless chicken now it’s convinient for them.
Che Guevarist
running straight through the middle into the box back to the defender got the ball tee’d it up for a volley himself hit it slightly on the volley just outside the 6 yard box put his volley was like a pass tohimself as he turned caught it on the volley from his own volley and cracked that sucker into the back of the net
oh yes does anyone forget how old chelsea are, hear my words if united sort out their midfield the rest should take care of itself. And why are united being linked with silva when united have valencia nani giggs park obertan and tosic coming back onloan its the midfield that needs sorting out and getting a long term replacement for VDS. Uniteds spine will need rebuilding not signing wingers
I wouldn’t dismiss what Tevez done for us in the past, but i fail to see why he gets so much adulation.
11 of his 12 goals have been against opposition in the lower hlf of the table. He is over priced, over hyped and lazy! The Bulgarians are also on his back over his mediocre performances for the national team. He will be in the Bundesliga next year! The most frustrating player i’ve ever seen at United
Costa
any chance you could rewrite that blogspot you wrote on Emily
the site lost it by mistake and are looking to put it up tomorrow or thursday
watchin the reserves game and obetan is having fun
BIG MISTAKE to send Berbatov away. Instead of putting pressure on him, telling him he sucks and expecting so much from him ( I mean let’s face it, he ain’t ever gonna be no Rooney – which is what we want from him ) we should be trying to encourage him. Berbatov stuck his neck out to get to Manchester United a few years ago – even defying Tottenham. Tevez would never do a such thing – he was out of here the moment things got too tough for him.
We are blaming Berbatov for most of united’s failures this season – but by my last count there are 11 of our players on the pitch – we are a team – and obviously something is not clicking. The question is – what makes Berbatov comfortable? Where does he want to stand? He tried very hard at Blackburn – more than some on the pitch – he got so frustrated he was shouting. He needs encouragement and something to keep him going. Ask him what he wants, Ferguson – don’t shook him out the door! Show us fans your magic Ferguson, and make him United.