After Sir Alex Ferguson’s comments that he has no regrets over Carlos Tevez leaving, many fans have compared the Argie’s strike rate this season at City with Dimitar Berbatov at United.
It wasn’t a case of buying Berbatov or buying Tevez, as the transfer money for Dimitar had already been paid whilst Tevez was on loan, but the comparisons are made.
Whilst Tevez ran his bollocks off every game, Berbatov is more conservative with his energy, leading to him being tagged as “lazy”. Whilst Tevez’s first touch and ball control always needed improving, Berbatov has probably got the best touch in the whole squad.
But should Ferguson have any regrets?
Carlos Tevez – 07/08 – First season
2685 minutes
14 goals (9th highest in the league)
1 goal per 192 minutes (2 hours 72 minutes)
7 assists (18th highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 128 minutes (2 hours 8 minutes)
Dimitar Berbatov – 08/09 – First season
2643 minutes
9 goals (25th highest in the league)
1 goal per 294 minutes (4 hours 54 minutes)
10 assists (2nd highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 139 minutes (2 hours 19 minutes)
Carlos Tevez – 08/09 – Second season
1856 minutes
5 goals (53rd highest in the league)
1 goal per 371 minutes (6 hours 11 minutes)
3 assists (74th highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 232 minutes (3 hours 52 minutes)
Dimitar Berbatov – 09/10 – Second season (so far)
1161 minutes
7 goals (11th highest in the league)
1 goal per 166 minutes (2 hours 46 minutes)
4 assists (23rd highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 106 minutes (1 hour 46 minutes)
Conclusion
- Berbatov’s contribution this season, in terms of goals and assists is better than last, and better than both Tevez’s seasons at United.
- Berbatov’s contribution this season, in terms of goals alone, is better than last, and better than both Tevez’s seasons at United.
- Tevez’s first season at United, in terms of goals alone, was far better than Berbatov’s first season at United.
- Tevez’s first season at United, in terms of goals and assists, was marginally better than Berbatov’s first season at United.
- Tevez’s second season at United, in terms of goals alone, was worse than both Berbatov’s seasons at United.
- Tevez’s second second at United, in terms of goals and assists, was worse than both Berbatov’s seasons at United.
Wayne Rooney is currently enjoying his most prolific season for United in front of goal, so could prove to be a good measuring stick for Berbatov and Tevez’s goals.
Wayne Rooney – 09/10 (so far)
1887 minutes
15 goals (highest scorer in the league)
1 goal per 126 minutes (2 hours 6 minutes)
4 assists (23rd highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 99 minutes (1 hour 39 minutes)
When you then consider that 4 of Rooney’s goals have been penalties, he has a scoring rate of 1 goal per 172 minutes from open play. Of course, I’m not discounting Rooney’s penalties because you’ve still got to score them, but it is interesting to see that from open play, Dimitar Berbatov has a better scoring rate than Wayne Rooney this season.
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those stats make both of them look rubbush…..I dont think we should compare these stats to those of Yorkie, Cole or Ruud….i do miss having a consistent goal scoring striker (does look like wazza is steping into that role…but i can still dream of a Rooney-Villa partnership)
excellent scott where do you find these stats from
But stats dont give the real truth, that tevez,though cunt,was a far better player than berbatov.Berba is near completely ineffective against any top 6 side.diouf if given a fair run probably would prove to be a better fit.Doubt fergie would ever let it happen though
I think that’s harsh on Tevez, second season he played alot as a sub and never really got that much of a starting run in the team as he did in his first season, I hate the bloke now but while he was with us, I did love him and he’s still an ace player. Tevez scored vital goals in his first season, goals against Chelsea, Lyon etc… being lone goals giving us either 1-0 wins or away goal advantage. Don’t get me wrong, I think Berbatov is fantastic and his first season he had to play second fiddle to Ronaldo, everything revolved around a lazy Ronaldo whereas in Tevez first season he had a 42 goal Ronaldo who played like a God. Different circumstances each time, this season though we’re a weaker side despite how “well” we’re doing and Berbatov is playing decent but he’s never looked a 30m player imo.
Excellent!
Interesting stats here Scott. But personally, I think both strikers’ contributions cannot only be measured in stats. Tevez was a very good player for us, and played his part during a very successful period at the club. Unfortunately, he just wasnt worth the 30 odd million that was demanded up front. (From what I hear, the price could rise to 45million) Under the circumstances, I see why most fans hate the guy, but I do think we should also appreciate his contribution to the club.
With Berbatov, I have always been a fan. He is a tremendously skillful player, who produces moments of magic. Something we definitely need. The 30million price tag is a bit too high, but that isnt his fault. Besides, he has been playing through a knee injury. He still is a top class striker.
Okay, so Berba > Tevez but I still don’t think that makes him worth a place in the team.
ghtt- Protesting against someone on their own private property has little to do with freedom of speech.
impress again on how u manage to put these stats together scott. but this comparision are not interesting for me anymore. the only important different to me is
Berba is still a manchester united player.
Angie is a hated piece of history.
regardless of how they perform!
Stats don’t mean much. You can find stats to back up almost any opinion, regardless of how wrong it may actually be. There was a day where players were judged on how you saw them play, not what stats were jotted down after a match.
Tevez’s first season here was better than what Berbatov has produced and I’d much sooner go back to the Rooney-Tevez partnership than stick with what we have now, but alas Fergie signed Berbatov that was the beginning of the end for Tevez, to me it’s slightly unfair to judge him on his second season.
As far as talent and ability goes, Berbatov beats him all day, but the more effective player at United was Tevez, and he should really still be here. He’s a twat for joining City though.
cant compare the 2 of them. Both are good in different departments. Would have loved to have tevez at United and it would have happened hadnt things turned sour in the last 6 months of his United career.
Chuck the stats.One is at United, other isnt. No point comparing the 2 of them. Tevez was excellent for us when he was there. Nothing should undermine the time he had had United scoring some vital goals.
Overall though from a neutral point of view Tevez was probably better.
cav
they paid to go in there and as a football fan voice there opinion which every single football fan does as been a fan is built on opinion. if they dont agree with the road the club is on . if you go to a wrestling event and you pay to get in you dont have to cheer hulk hogan cause he’s a good guy you can boo the guy if you dont like him. Portsmouth fans pay to watch there club play this season and they are not told at he door “agree nod and smile with the club or you will be removed”
im sorry but i have to agree with Rossi.. those stats make both of them look bad..
by the look of the stats its like compering shit and crap
But i love Berba and i used to love Teves… reason?
Berba has the magic touch (like he did against Burnley and almost scored) and players like him are the reason this game is so beautiful
Tevez always played his heart out for the club and his energy level was so high it motivated the other players
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”.
When I used stats some time back to say that Berbatov wasn’t performing, I was told that statistics can’t capture the true value of the player. And here you are using statistics to prove the point that Berbatov is better. And it must be said you are comparing two sets of stats (2nd year) that are poor for any top class striker.
I would also like to point out that in the 2nd season, Tevez played mostly as a substitute, out of the 34 games played 17 were as subs. Statistically that doesn’t make a difference, but as anyone who has played knows, it does have a psychological effect on players.
I don’t intend to defend Tevez, but I just want to point out that using statistics when it supports the argument and dismissing it on other occasions is a widely used practice and it doesn’t serve the purpose. Tevez moved on and he has been replaced. Berbatov needs to be performing at the level that he was at yesterday on a regular basis in order to make a lasting impression on this team.
Finally, I think this debate is a waste of time.
i still think berbatov isn’t good enough to wear the colours of united
Berba has much more class than that twat from Argentina. He brings a calming effect to our attacks. He also is able to hold the ball up and bring others into play. Berba is a prince and waiting to be crowned a King. If our midfield could actually play him in more with a higher quality ball he would do a lot more. Tevez used to run around like a rat on crack but in general with no effect. He tried to copy Wayne’s attitude but just without the effect. Tevez did charge the crowd up but thats cos we like a “try-er” – even Sir Alex said this. Berba’s game has changed since spurs and bayer days. He is asked to do a much differnet role. Look at Berba’s stats this season and you will see that in full starts in the league he has a 1 in 2 strike ratio. In full games a man should be judged not in sub apps. It makes sense to think that for him to be coming on as a sub is for the simple reason that we were struggling in that particular match and he was brought on to change the game. Sorry but if the team is playing shite….one man cannot make the difference. Oh well apart from Ronnie that is.
this is stupid Scott. Tevez is playing 90 minutes regularly and is scoring regularly, it isn’t rocket science. the comparison is unfair as in Tevez’ second season he was benched mostly. If Tevez played 90 minutes for us he’d have been great.
people are forgetting all those open goals and one-on-one’s with the keeper tevez missed for us. Awful finisher
“2 hours 72 minutes” …. is that 3 hours 12 minutes then lol!
Colbert Said,January 17th, 2010 @16:22 “Lies, damned lies, and statistics”.
Stole my thunder !
The point is that neither is the right partner for WayneRooney. Sure, Berbatov produced one of his “moments” yesterday but overall his contribution was STILL not right. Nevertheless, he’s the one in whom SAF invested part of the CRmoney (I know, before he sold CR) so it would appear that he will stubbornly persist with him.
I’ve written enough about my own preferences to partner WayneRooney; I don’t think that Diouf will be that guy but he shows the willingness to play centrally AND forward that is required. Actually, given the overall talent level of UTD, anyone who played centrally and forward (i.e., Bobby Zamora or Darren Bent or….) would have more than Dimmy’s six or seven goals. And, THAT, I believe, is the real point.
I’m amazed that Rooney is the top scorer in the league, and both Tevez AND Berbatov’s stats were pretty rubbish.
I think the Premiership went downhill a bit, about three years ago. Call me a moaning bastard but when the likes of Drogba, Van Persie, Ferdinand, et al went off the boil (admittedly not always their own faults) they dragged the rest down with them. Rooney’s inconsistency (and wasted chances) can be viewed two ways. a) he is stil top scorer so he must be brilliant, and b) a truly world-class striker doesn’t try token shots when there’s nowt down.
Now Ronaldo (and everyone else of note) has gone to Spain it looks like la Liga is the world’s best football league.
Tevez is playing better at City than he did at United. Big deal. Berbatov started this season strong but seems to have lapsed into his lethargy again.
I blame that haircut. It puts ten years on him.
Slightly Off Topic but..
Ive just been watching Sky News interviewing an Anti Terrorism officer on merseyside about a large explosion near Liverpool City Centre yesterday evening.Early reports suggested a terrorist bomb attack had taken place but he denied this saying the loud explosion can now be attributed to the sound of City’s bubble bursting.
Agree with denton davey, Berbatov is not the right man to partner Rooney because of the fact that they both drop deep. The best position to play Berbatov in is as a attacking midfielder, where he can roam in midfield as much as he wants, pulling all the strings and providing us with the creativity that we are lacking in the middle. I would love to see that happening, and it may suit Berbatov’s style very well.
It will also be interesting to see how Rooney and Diouf play together for 90 minutes, if Fergie does give him a start against Man City. Playing an injured Berbatov in a CC semi is not good, so I hope Fergie does give the new striker a chance. Berbatov really should undergo surgery now otherwise he will continue to have pains midway games and that could worsen his injury.
AC Milan hammered Siena 4-0 today with a certain Ronaldinho scoring a hat trick.We may run into them when they are in good form.Ronaldinho has rediscovered himself this season. Looks really world class.
I don’t know where comparing them will get us any more, however I will agree that it’s not about Berbatov replacing Tevez. They were both at the club the same time.
scott there’s an adage that goes you can use statistics to prove anything…i’m not saying that we should have signed tevez (definetly not for the price he went to city for) but this is a bit of a sign of sour grapes imo..i was VERY disappointed with the way tevez conducted himself towards the end of his united career (although we didnt exactly cover ourselves in glory with the way we were handling him either) but the fact of the matter is that he seems to have caught on at city & would have been been very useful for us this season given the lack of form of our stikers (owen), lack of experience(wellbeck, macheda) & lack of fitness (berbatov)
having said that i still hate the bastard, not for leaving cause as i said we didnt do right by him but for joinin city, buying the welcoem to manchester poster etc
Neil G – That’s why I included Tevez’s first season because he was playing regularly then but he wasn’t scoring every week. At City, Tevez is the main man. Tevez wasn’t ever going to be the main man at United because of Ronaldo and now because of Rooney.
@ aig alex is god, if Hargreaves, Rio & Vida fully are fit on the 16th of February, then we shouldn’t have a problem. If we had this line-up by then:
Rafael Rio Vidic Evra
Valencia Fletcher Hargo Giggs
Berbatov Rooney
then we would have a great chance of qualifying further in the champions league.
I agree with denton davey, Valencia had plenty of open space ahead if him yesterday but he always tried to cross. And another notice. I think we a have an exact scheme and this all about playing through the wings. 9 times out of 10 the ball goes there and it is very annoying at times.
Another thing from the yesterday game. Berba always tries to get the ball outside the penalty area. It leaves Rooney alone in the penalty area when the cross comes in. There are issues we should deal with.
i’ve actually been impressed by berbatov this season (leeds aside..but that applies for pretty much everyone on the pitch that day) i jus think he’s been unlucky that when he was getting into his best united form at the end of november he suffered that injury..having said that it doesnt change the fact that we need another striker..1) a bit of competition would keep him on his toes & 2) it seems very very likely that he’s gonna need that knee op (anyone thinkin we might have a new owen hargreaves situation?=s)
fuck value..is the money there?!?!?
Games against Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal or knockout champions league fixtures. Out of 16 games since Berbatov joined the club he has been selected to play in 8, scored 1 goal and got 1 assist.
Last season he scored 3 goals in 23 games in the run in.
He is not mistaken for being lazy, he is lazy and when someone did a touch for touch analysis of him on this forum just a few weeks ago it came to pass that the idea that he rarely gives away possession is another myth.
Against Leeds he didn’t hold up the ball well and whilst it wasn’t direct, Leeds soon scored afterwards.
He’s the main reason why we didn’t win the champions league last year because 30m wisely spent would have made a huge difference.
I’d rather have Tevez by some distance.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/Twenty+Eyes
@brett1985
Spot on. I never give Berbatov stick at games, but I am not going to be biast to the point of blind where I’m going to be a bitter fan and deny that Tevez gave far more to a United side then Berbatov ever has or will.
I am sick of hearing about assists or the odd nice touch. He hasn;t showen up in any major game since joining the club. Grabbing a last minute goal against Chelsea when we had all ready won the game does little to convince me in a year and a halfs football.
@ brett1985, Berbatov wasn’t the reason why we didn’t win the champions league last season. No desire, players played out of position, unfit defence, Fletcher/Hargreaves missing and Barcelona of course were the reasons why we failed to win in Rome. Berbatov didn’t exactly score own goals to hand them the cup, did he? Besides, if Fergie spent 30 million on a striker other than Berbatov, who would it have been, and how do you know he would have made any difference??
Of course Berbatov is the one and only reason for our failings.
Anyway he kept playing yesterday while hurt and scored the breakthrough goal. We have some more very importants months to play and i hope he will be fit to play because we need him.
FZE123
The reason I presented my stats is because they are the most striking and simple in my opinion. I have sat down to watch 16 matches and the player who we all hoped would turn those major fixtures has scored 1 goal 1 assist and been benched for 1/2 of them. It was his fault that we did not win the champions league albeit there were other factors. He made no contibution when fit, while others were absent or injured. He brings nothing to the party and when its his turn to deliver he just doesn’t.
Short of him sitting down by the goalpost in our own penalty box for 90 minutes I don’t see how he could have done any less for us in 1.5 years and it would take such a striking gesture for some people to realise this. Statistics need proper interpretation. If you can’t see how the stats I have presented are not of a striking nature then you need help. They are simple and straightforward.
People claimed on this forum that he has nice touches and does not give the ball away. Not true either. Someone did a touch for touch analysis against hull and concluded that he often gives the ball away. He is a turd in a united shirt.
At the end of the day, Berbatov was a risk that hasn’t worked out. Fergie was looking for a different option for our attackers, because maybe he felt everyone was a little too simmilar i.e fast, direct, hard work ethic. Berbatov was meant to be in the Sheringham, Cantona mold but he has failed misserably, and if he has put some effort in doing so I would have let him off.
We have lost that zip and directness to our play which made us feared through out Europe. And like it or not Tevez, YES TEVEZ as well as Ronaldo was a major factor in making United the team they were.
fze123
Vidic will be fit.The other are big ‘ifs’. not too certain about that. Also if they are fit they need some match practice and cant look rusty in such an important game. Also Ronaldinho plays on the left wing. Rafael,brown and neville all are not capable of dealing with him. Maybe fletcher or hargo may have to play at right back
aig alex is god – Playing Hargo on the left wing is a really good idea but i am not sure he will be ready for this kind of game that soon.
*on the right wing of course
Scott you do an absolutely great job on this blog, but you are beginning to sound a little like Rafa, but with instead of using FACTS you keep on using STATS.
Everytime you mention Berbatov it’s all about stats. I look at hoise opta index things and it’s all a load of bollocks. When Benitez mentioned facts everyone knew he was talking shite, and when you mention these stats they are a desperate attempt to try and convince yourself that Berbatov is better than Tevez.
At the end of the day Tevez has gone and there has been better and will be better players who leave the club, the thing is Berbatov won’t be one of them and I hope he’s gone sooner rather than later.
@brett1985
I am sorry, but you can’t say someone was the reason we didn’t win a certain game when he wasn’t even in the starting line up. We don’t know what would have happened if Berbatov started against Barcelona. And the reason he didn’t start that game, or other big ones, is Fergie’s preference of playing 4-5-1 in those games.
Tevez also missed a lot of big games for the same reason. In his first season, we played Arsenal 3 times and he started once, we played Chelsea 3 times and he started twice and we played Liverpool 2 times and he started once. In his second season, he only started 2 of the 6 games against those teams.
It’s easy to say Berbatov doesn’t do it in the big games, but personally, I would take the goals that Berba scored/created last season and which helped us to 12 points over a winner at Anfield.
Corea
Hi mate.
he may not be ready but if he is it may be worth a gamble.Otherwise Fletcher can play there too.That wont be a bad idea either
L.U.H.G.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxwFV9V-mhg
Costas – I still dont get why fergie played 4 5 1 in the CL final, when in 2008 they won the european cup playing 2 strikers. for me scholes and tevez should have started the final.
@Gary
Lets allow history decide if Berbatov was a hit or a miss. To call him a flop or a failure after 18 months at the club is unfair. A player who has scored and created a few vital goals for us can’t be called a failure, I don’t care how much we payed for him. I don’t see Robinho setting the Wastelands alight either. No one is questioning his price tag though.
Berbatov is in the Sheringham or Cantona mould and who’s to say that these players wouldn’t have struggled in today’s modern game? The United team of 07-08 didn’t have many seasons left in it. Ronaldo was going to leave, Scholes and Giggs were getting older and players like Anderson,Nani and Hargreaves haven’t reached the highs of that season again.
@Rooney the new king
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Fergie went with what served him brilliantly in 2 legs against Arsenal. I personally would have started with Scholes. At the end of the day Giggs isn’t a centre midfielder. Maybe Fergie had it in his mind that Giggsy has more legs about him to combat the energy of Xavi and Iniesta but he should have went with someone who naturally plays there.
would have been fun to put owen in that mix as well
@rooney the new king
4-5-1 took us to the final, so Fergie stuck with it. Besides, in 2008 with Hargo in the side and Ronaldo coming inside, it was more of a 4-3-3. It’s a shame those 11 never played together again because it was a great line up.
I don’t know about Tevez, but I thought that Scholes should have started the final instead of Ryan. We needed someone to control the tempo and Ryan as a midfielder can’t do that. I even thing that someone like Berbatov would have been more useful instead of central midfielder Giggs.
rtnk
sir alex was right to play 4-5-1 in the final. Just as he did in both the legs in 2008. Sir Alex knows that if you to be over adventurous against barca and have a go at them they will kill you.The only way to beat them is to stifle them and take your chances
Anyways its the past and its gone.Lets chuck that. The worst United game i have ever seen, never felt as gutted as that night
@costas
Give it up pal. Berbatov is showing no signs of improving, if anything he’s got worse as his self belief has just drained. The fans can only pick him up so much, he needs to do it himself and stop feeling sorry for himself. It’s fucking football at the end of the day, not life or death, the bloke needs to grow some balls and stand up and be counted.
an easy way to resolve the Berbatov – Tevez situation is ignore all the facts statistics even the fact Tevez left the club.
Forgetting all of this if they were both still at the club and you were playing city away in a semi final who would you pick to partner Rooney
I was happy with Berbatov’s performance yesterday. He scored and was making an effort to get in to goalscoring positions. plus that piece of magic at the start of the second half, which was almost ended in a beautiful goal. However, I want to see this from him consistently. It isn’t good enough to be the odd game and then go missing for five. I am not buying his injury as an excuse either, cause if it is that bad he shouldn’t be playing and if Fergie thought it was so bad that it was harming Berbatov’s performances, he would refuse to let him play. I mean what some forget is Fletcher is also playing with an injury but is it ever used as an excuse? No, because it doesn’t need to be
aig alex is god – but this is where you are wrong united did not have the tools to stifle barca and he should have started with more attacking verve. he lost his destroyers and he had all nice footballers no one with bite so he may is well started with a more attacking game. to be honnest I will change what should have happened.
my 11 would have been
vds
o shea ferdinand vidic evra
ronaldo scholes carrick park
rooney tevez
and no not the worse united game I have ever seen, southampton when united lost 6 3 or chelsea and newcastle when united lost 5 0, or when united lost 4 1 to shitty in march 04, they were far worser games than the barcelona defeat.
Arsenal squatting aside Bolton comfortably. Why do they always look in good form when they are about to play us?
@Gary
Give what up? Just because I don’t see Berbatov as an utter and complete disaster like you do? In my eyes he has contributed to the side and I don’t care what he cost. His transfer fee inflated by 5 million on the final day of the transfer window anyway.
The only thing he can do, is try to be the player he was at Spurs. We can’t force anyone at the age of 29 to be something he is not. Berbatov was never a hard worker or a battler. I hope it doesn’t come down to this, but if he has to go under the knife this week, then the next couple of months will be an indication of how vital or not he is to the team.
rtnk
fletcher was missing and i agree with the fact that we did not have the tools to stifle Barcelona. Possibly that should have prompted SAF to play 4-4-2 because Giggs and Scholes cannot keep up with the pace of the game in games of such intensity.
Considering this was the biggest game of club football on the planet and we were one step away from creating history it was really disappointing to see us lose so lifelessly.
@AIG
And the sad fact is that Arsenal host Bolton in midweek and they will probably move into second place. Unfortunately, the new manager scenario didn’t work this time.
As far as the final goes, it wasn’t our best game by a long shot, but I don’t want to forget the first 10 minutes and how dominating we were in that time period. We weren’t beat before the whistle was blown, we just conceded a goal that changed the entire game. A real kick to the teeth as they say. The defending for that goal was the most disappointing thing…
@Costas
exactly. and we have a very difficult trip to the emirates at the end of the month which is worrying me now. Arsenal are also getting players back from injury which is not a good sign for us
As for the final ,agree with you. The players were mentally affected conceding the goal against the run of play and never really recovered from that.
against Milan even with Ronaldinho on the left, Rafael i think will cope. I mean after all, he’s Brazilian! Anyway he’s faster than neville or brown and it will require Valencia to track back. Personally I hope Nani starts that game because our damage will be dealt down the right, Evra and Nani need to tame Beckham and reek havoc down that wing. Valencia needs to play more of a defensive role in that game, or perhaps we could play park on the right and get him to follow Ronaldinho EVERYWHERE.
@costas
To a certain extent it isn’t all Berbatov’s fault as Ferguson signed him.
However the problem we have is not all fans are on the same page. Some of us say he’s been poor while others want to sully the name of our great legends by comparing him to Cantona.
This is a player who ‘holds up the ball well’ and ‘creates’ yet isn’t good enough to be at the head of a 4-5-1. Simply put he wasn’t good enough to get in the team.
Believe me if he had actually been playing really well before than final do you think people would hold these opinions. The idea that people are ‘bashers’ ignores the fact that prior to Berbatov joining the club no one really had a gripe about him.
18 months entails every opportunity to show us his worth. In the end the most persuasive argument I have heard for others (not you) is that I am too stupid to undertand his contribution.
Being worth 12 points isn’t worthless but nor is it worth much. Short of doing nothing that sounds like a minimal contribution right there. We are talking a few games round Christmas for that sort of a return. Indeed with some people giving him credit for the third goal in a 3-0 win at home to chelsea I just wonder what matches you are referring to.
In all honesty Costas if I had told you a forwards scored 3 goals in 23 games with one goal in 16 major matches you would ordinary think that player was not doing well.
@Costas
His contribution has been minimal to our cause at best. I shouldn’t expect Berbatov to be a hard worker or a battler? What excempts him from that? I know he’s lightning slow, but doesn’t excuse him from trying to break a sweat and get up support attacks rather than languashing in a useless position.
Thank god if he goes under the knife. I have never looked at a game without him and thought to myself “God we could do with that Berbatov out there today” he’s had his chances. I’d rather give Diouf or Owen a run in the team, Owen will only get sharper with games, and it doesn’t phase him if he misses a chance.
@chrispiano
Becks isnt exactly a threat. Its vidic and ferdinand who will have to deal with his crosses much better.
Rafael. I hope he can keep ronaldinho quiet but i dont think so. valencia will have to put a good shift to keep him quite. Combines very well with Boriello and pato
aig alex is god – yea we all know heinsight was a wonderful thing but fergie got the team wrong that day whats the point stiffling a team when we lost those qualitys due to suspension and injury.
Costas – well my problems with berbatov are well known, but like I said before he is not tactically flexible enough and thats the huge problem, like fitting into a 4 3 3 or 4 5 1 system if it ment part of 3 forwards, or if he was leading the line he cant do, and we all know fergie decides to bench him because he knows he does not fit those systems .
- Also in a fluid system he just does not fit the jigsaw puzzle and the team looks disjointed and lacks flowing movement, like if it ment taking the attack to the opponents or hitting teams on the counter. Another huge problem I have with berbatov is his movement is very static, he does not stretch defences like rooney does going from the right left and power his way thrugh the middle and he never puts defences on the back foot, defences love forwards who play infront of them and thats what berbatov does.
None of them have anything on Diouf’s scoring rate!
Hope he gets a good run of games. We were woeful in the air and, so far, he seems to add a natural striker presence we’re lacking.
@ Gary
I hope Berba goes under the knife too mate, not coz I think he is shit but coz I think he needs a break to sort his head out and I’d put Diouf in while he is out so Berba has to fight for his place when he gets back to fitness coz thats his problem right now he knows he will get picked to play. As for Owen he isnt doing enough to deserve a start, he should be ready to score as soon as he steps on to the pitch not just when he starts a game!! to many times Ive seen him come off the bench and kick thin air (Nani did this yesterday as well which is worrying, I mean dont we train these lot to bloody shoot at all) and with Diouf not alot is known about him and that causes defenders problems and he hasnt got a price tag to worry him and he wants to work hard so lets give the lad the chance to at least show us what he is all about over 90 mins. I really think he is going to be a little gem of a find, I did even before he arrived and yesterday just made me think that a little more.
@gee
Yes Owen has kicked thin air when he’s come off the bench on a couple of occasion BUT that seems to be one more chance than Berbatov gets a game. He all ways gets a chance, and he doesn’t hide. I wouldn’t have wanted that chance against City in the last minute to fall to anyone else. Owen is focused in those situations, it’s like he has tunnel vision and blocks everything out. He isn’t the Owen of old but he will still score goals given the run of games he needs. I mean he scored a hatrick and then didn’t start for gods sake, I’m sorry but what was Fergie doing not starting him the game after that?!
on topic all the way with this one
but the new stupidest man in the premiership has just been crowned
http://www.strettyender.com/city-midfielder-tevez-rooney
Gotta hate tiny tears – what an idiot that de jong is, tevez better than rooney and torres he is a complete tool, tevez has a good month and all of a sudden he is the bees knees. rooney and torres are the best strikers in their positions, rooney by far the best second striker and torres is the best central striker.
rooney the new king
your right the guy is an idiot because he forgot to say tevez also greater than ronaldo and messi not just torres and rooney
stats dont tell the whole story , atleast those stats dont , you should get stats showing the distance they ran or the amount of times they got the ball back and everyone has to stop making excuses for berba he simply just has not been good enough since he came and for those in the first season saying he needed to settle in , what a load of bollocks that is , torres came to liverpool settled in straight away , fergie should buy either a left winger or a prolific striker before its too late because at the moment we are a really a two man team with wazza and patrice although i cant criticise fletch , valencia , scholes , giggs or vidic but if pat or wayne get injured we are totally screwed
Gary – Rarely when I talk about Berba do I talk about stats, actually. My opinion of him is based on the lovely football he plays. The clever passes, the great vision, the lovely touches, the audatious attempts. The reasons why I rate him have very little to do with the stats. But when I talk about his lovely movement, that’s just my opinion, and is countered with other opinions of him being “lazy”.
I think Berbatov is effective in the attacking half of the pitch, not necessarily just with the goals and assists, but the lovely ball to another player who then assists a goal. Again, that is my opinion and people can disagree.
But if you look at how much time Berbatov has spent on the field and see that it is only Rooney’s penalties that have made him more effective than Berb this season, then that is vindication to those that support Berbatov. You can call him lazy but the stats are there to show he is scoring and creating on a more than acceptable level.
I think if you want him to run around like a headless chicken, racing back in to our half for him to win the ball back, you’re missing the point. He’s a striker. Tevez ran around like a headless chicken and was popular for it… despite the fact he has been nowhere near as effective as Berbatov. Denis Law, Eric Cantona, Ruud van Nistelrooy didn’t run around winning the ball back in our half, weird that is now what our fans want from a striker.
Have always been a massive fan of Berbatov. Think he is the most gifted player in Europe at the moment in terms of poise and natural abillity with the ball at his feet.
The problem with Berbatov is that the fee we paid has become a monkey on his back and the ABU media are constantly portraying him as a mistake.
He needs a knee operation but with Bulgaria not in the World Cup I think Sir Alex will wait till the end of the season.
The solution I believe would be to temporarily drop Berbatov deep into an attacking midfield role behind two strikers in a similar role that Riquelme played for Villereall. This would take the goalscoring pressure away from him and granted, it could only work with another hardworking centre mid player like Fletcher or ideally Hargreaves ( Don’t think he will return as a quality UTD player), playing behind him. The assists would continue but the pressure would be off him. As his confidence grew you throw him back as a striker and hope he replicates the instinct he showed for Spurs in front of goal. I know it’s not that simple but I think it is more of an option than selling in the summer.
Don’t care about comparisons with Tevez any more. The fact is that he was gobbing off well before the season ended with the encouragement of his owner, who knew that City were prepared to outbid everyone and if reports are to be believed paid £47 million for him. Still think he will spit his dummy out at City at some point. Think it’s a genetic thing with South Americans.
Berbatov for me.
Gotta hate tiny tears – he said better than messi and ronaldo, messi last season scored nearly all his goals from open play which was about 41 goals. ronaldo has anyone seen how he is ripping spanish defences apart like rag dolls who ronnie is the complete player. like I said tevez is a level below the best players in the game, tevez is a good player very effective but he certaintly is not world class. tevez for me is like sam allardyces old bolton or don revies leeds outfit, he is not great to watch has a player but can be effective, and thats what tevez is effective he gets the job done thats all he is.
smokebreaksteve – sorry but thats just complete BS, the most gifted player in europe is lionel messi if you are looking at pure natural ability and poise messi has it all the things messi can do with the ball is something I have not seen since best was in his prime, messi has it all and to even say berbatov is has talented has messi let alone put him in the same bracket has rooney iniesta ronaldo xavi for pure talent you really have been drinking to much.
@brett1985
I wish that us fans weren’t as divided on this issue. Arguing is always good, but this subject has been going on ever since Berbatov signed for us. I imagine that this is how this place would have been like, when Veron was played for United. In my opinion, there is no black and white here. I won’t praise Berba to death, but I won’t call him a flop either. I compared him to Cantona in terms of his skills. I don’t want to compare them directly because they are players from different eras.
I won’t call fellow United fans stupid. It’s just that it tires me whenever Tevez does something, Berbatov is brought up. I don’t agree with this article, because it’s time we stopped looking to the past. Tevez was a great servant for us, but he is gone and it wasn’t Berbatov that replaced him. I said in another topic that if Berbatov hadn’t come, then we would have gone through 66 games of the 08-09 season with 2 strikers. I just wish we had a different plan and didn’t end up paying that cunt Levy 30 million plus Fraizer.
The 12 points I was referring to, were games that were settled by Berbatov contributions. The game at Stoke, the home game with Boro, the game at Bolton(where truthfully, Tevez did all the hard work for the goal) and the game at Newcastle. I realize that some of these goals were tap ins, but you have to be at the right place for those. Like Ruud always was.
Has Berbatov scored 3 in 23 this season? I think he has 7 goals so far. And looking at his average in the stats, he has done well so far. 1 goal in 2 games isn’t bad. The problem with Berba will always be consistency. Not only in his goalscoring, but in the 90 minutes during a game.
@Gary
The only thing that Berbatov is obligated to do, is give 100% whenever he playes. If some people think that he can start running around like Rooney and Tevez, sorry but it won’t happen. It’s not that he is too good for it. It’s just who he is. And we knew that when we brought him in. The reason we usually see him in the middle of the park, doesn’t have to do with lazyness. It’s Fergie’s false (in my opinion) assumption that it’s his best position. Against Burnley, we saw him higher up the pitch and it worked better.
Speaking of Burnley, it was a game where I thought that he might be the one to get the breakthrough. And he has also done it in other games where we were struggling. Blackburn, Sunderland and Stoke for example. Personally, I hope he stays fit and plays in the position he played at against Burnley. That withstanding, I would like to see Owen get more opportunities. Lets see what he and Rooney can do together up front. Or even he and Berbatov…
i still perf Carlos Tevez den Berbatov he cnt do shit nuttin all he do is pass nd nt lukin around all the tyme we waste him 30m bloody hell feig need 2 sell him soon cnt stand him anymre. we r better go for david villa hes best foward player rite nw.
rooney is okie, but never give his 100% every games messi is alot better dan rooney.
Scott: Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Law and Cantona turned up in big games and scored goals. Berbatov hasn’t turned up in any big games and struggles to score goals. Anyway it’s clear you’re a Berbatov supporter and I’m not, so we’ll agree to disagree.
I dont think the second year stats of Tevez do any justice to him, he was a sub in most of the games, where either the game was wrapped and in the bag, and all he had to do is his running around like the headless chicken. Or we cam from back, and still all Tevez did was his running around coz Ronnie would conjure some magic of his own.
I would prefer Berbatov in the box any day than tevez but tevez is more like the mid fielder i would have against teams like liverpool, where mascherano and guys have stomped over us in the past three matches. In those matches berbatov seemed like a complete mismatch.
Both the players are totally different, in techniques and roles and comparing them seems pointless. Besides this season’s record of Berbatov will never show that he is carrying an injury and still battling in a team with midfielders having to go defending.
I am so sick with those berba slaters/SAF slaters(falls into the same group) .. They are arguing that he has failed to deliver, and that we need to sell him.. what a stupid thing to say. or they are arguing that he is not working enough.. Well football is more than that, although i would say there are many players who work less than berbatov (CR9 anyone?)
And that he is not scoring enough, well he has netted 3 after christmas and there is surely more to come (unless he needs an op)
He refused to play for city, totally fucked em off… he really wants to play although his knee is hurting (not a matter of course that he has that attitude)..
And someone says he goes missing.. Every striker goes missing sometimes, but I dont believe that is the case with berba.. he is often part of the build-up play.. and does always want to have the ball (waving with his arms when he dont recieve it (nice attitude(always wanting the ball)))
And if a striker goes missing it is often because of the midfield, although i have already said that i dont feel berba falls into that category..
I am so sick of the berba slaters/SAF slaters(often falls into the same group) **
Sorry I know it’s off topic but just received this joke and had to share it….
Sir Alex Ferguson is walking down the touchline after beating Burnley, and a woman sticks her arm out. Sir Alex signs it.
A bit further down the line a woman leans over and pulls her top up showing her tits, so Sir Alex signs them.
When he gets to the tunnel, a naked woman jumps out of the crowd and lies down in front of the gaffer with her legs open.
Fergie says, “Sorry, love it’s Benitez who signs all the c*nts”
rooney the new king Said
I must admit after I sent the post, I thought about Messi and admit I probably gave Berbatov too much credit. I will give you that one. Messi is awesome. I apologise.
As for Xavi and Iniesta, they are masters at short intelligent passes throughout a tight midfield and as good and effective as they are at the simple things I stand by what I said about poise and natural ability with the ball at feet to to something magical.
You mention Ronaldo, but again you are missing my point.Natural ability and poise are by definition, Natural.
Ronaldo was a fantastic striker of the ball, could head the ball with the power of the most powerful centre forward, could handle pressure and win games out of nothing with his free kicks but in my opinion didn’t always show a natural ability to hold the ball, think and then play a ridiculously audacious through ball to someone else. It was all about Ronaldo and when he had the ball he wanted to be on that ball till the end whether it ended
up in the back of the net or ended up in the top tier of the East Stand. It was that attitude that meant that there wasn’t an uproar when he left so in that respect I would berbatov any day.
Instead of calling my post Bullshit and claiming I have been on the piss, offer something more constructive than just quoting names. .
We need to stop fooling ourselves about Berbatov, he’s not up to the job and the sooner thats realised the better! I give all united signings a chance but you have to be able to admit when their not up to the job. Liverpool fans are unable to criticise their own players, they still defend Lucas for Christs sake! We cant be the same as that, we have a lot of players that simply aren’t up to the job and some people on this site are blind to this. Just because a player wears our jersey doesn’t make them great players, they have to earn that title!!
Blah blah blah…..Tevez….Berbatov…… Who cares?
Am I the only one who thinks this knee thing might actually be a blessing in disguise? It’s becoming clear that he will need the surgery sooner rather than later. His game is clearly off right now. This will allow an opening for Diouf (We all know Fergies doesn’t want Owen with Rooney) to come in and show us what he’s got. To me, he seems like a great match for Rooney. Also, Valencia has no left foot so he can’t cut in fire away like Nani on either side. He always ends up putting in a cross to the midget (Roon) or the man with lead boots (berba). Diouf has the potential to free up Rooney with his speed and desire to stay central, and is a target man for Valencia and Raf – which is where everything seems to be coming from lately.
Anyway…..
@ smokebreaksteve – Agree, I have been saying the same thing for a long time. Play Berbatov as AM and he will flourish; pulling all the strings in the middle and providing us with much needed creativity. He would be getting all the assists, and he wouldn’t be asked to score many goals from midfield. To not heap pressure on Rooney as the main striker, Fergie should test a Diouf-Rooney partnership and see how it works out. Diouf would probably play well with Rooney as he prefers to stay central, rather than opting to drop deep. Fergie must have great faith and trust in our new striker to give him game time straightaway against Brum and Burnley, so let’s hope he is given a start soon.
bengalisoldier – Can barely read your post but I notice you say Rooney never gives 100%. Most ridiculous thing I have seen on here this week and there has been some ridiculous comments of late.
As for Berba I feel that when he is playing United will create and score. He was missed badly at Brum last week and I think it is only when he is out with his knee people we realise we do miss him.
I do think Berbatov can be a force at united. It has only been 18months, so we need to give him more time. and lets quit with the tevez comparison. There is too much pressure on dimitar by the media, fans and opposition. he has been injured this year and once fit and with more time playing with rooney and valencia, he will get better. The expectation is that he scores every game and takes on their entire defence in doing so. Running around all over the pitch is not his style. So what? Then we start calling him lazy etc.
Besides city may have Tevez who has had ONE good month, but they also have someone who cost more than Berba, earns more per week than him and just plain sucks…Robinho.
The only thing Berba needs to change is that damn haircut. I kind of like his old dracula look:)
@skqueakyRed – LOL great joke.
Why don’t we just blame Berba for the United debt too while we’re at it. Look, I’m not Berba’s biggest fan in terms of his contribution to the team, however, it is difficult to question his quality…. I bet he’s class at 5-a-side!!! However, it has only been 18 months; how long were most of us slating Fletcher??? A lot longer than 18 months and now the reason we didn’t win the Champions League is because Fletcher wasn’t playing.
King Eric – I agree, the bengalisoldier quote that Rooney never gives 100% is the most bizzare thing I’ve seen on here in a long while.
On another note, I hope and pray that Diouf turns out to be a belter, but for people to be saying that we need to start with him up front after having seen him play fo half hour are sounding a little desperate!
I read an article this morning which quoted SAF as saying he wouldn’t play Rooney and Owen together as they are too similar? Does anyone agree?
Do me a favour!
Stats are the ultimate liars and can be used to prove anything.
Tev is on fire across at City and if he were in a Red Shirt still AND BEING PICKED TO PLAY BY THE AGEING KNIGHT, the league table would be telling a different story.
@mikekelly12
I don’t agree mate. Rooney is versatile. He could play behind the striker and he could play as a centre forward, although I feel that the former is his best position. So I don’t see why he can’t olay together with Owen and play just behind him.
Costas – Thats what I thought. If what SAF is quoted as saying is to believed and not taken out of context, he implied that Owen would get more of a look in in the second half of the season but only when Rooney is rested?
@mikekelly12
It wasn’t entirely clear. He just said that Owen will come into the equation in the second half. I think Fergie said that because he isn’t sure about Berba’s fitness. If he doesn get the surgery, we won’t play 4-5-1 or with Rooney-Diouf all the time. Michael will get more starts. I wasn’t too fond of him at first, but 2 things won me over: The goal against Shitty and his performance at Anfield where he was our best player.
Alphie Izzet
Tevez would not have fitted into our current side.. Who should have created chances? Tevez is a finisher and a headless chicken runner.. and he is not on fire anymore (they lost to everton you know)
I would bet that we would have had fewer points if we had tevez in our team starting every game, he is a poor mans rooney (and if you think otherwise then fuck off to the eastlands) it was different in 2007-2008, then we had ronny as well + a good nani, hargo, a fit Ferdinand and Vidic, brown, younger giggs, scholes etc.. then he got 14 goals (OK.. not amazing)
feel free to disagree-
smokebreaksteve – its cool but for complete talent poise ability to score goals in so many ways, awesome with 2 feat and the way he makes goals messi is the most gifted player on the planet, paul scholees at his best he is me is in my top 5 players that has such poise and pure football talent, most players all say scholes in training is by far the greatest to play with. scholes in the 06/07 season I thought he put in perhaps one of the greatest master class seasons I have ever seen watching football for 16 years.
Off topic – Fucking cunt. I am sure this bird beating dogging bastard was criticising Fergie last January for mentioning a winter break? Even saying summat like keep your nose out Fergie.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/stan-collymore/Stan-Collymore-column-Why-it-s-time-to-end-the-fixture-farce-by-introducing-a-winter-break-article283361.html
please guys !!! he’s only been here 18 months ?!?!?!??!?! how bloody long does a player need to settle?! i’m actually one of those that thinks berbatov is havin a better 2nd season but sayin he needs more time to settle is complete rubbish..especially considering the fact he was already playin in england before (yes i know he was with a diff team diff system etc etc so was torres..& countless other players) but 18 months is more than enough for a player to have settled..especially a player of his age..dont forget strikers tend to slacken off after they hit their 30′s so my guess is that berba has 3 good years in him left..hope i’m wrong
A debate is nice every now and then, although it’s ultimately futile when they centre around regret, which this debate has for many United fans.
It’s been said elsewhere today, some things simply don’t work out. I agree with that. Tevez moving on was in the interest of both parties.
Many arguments to the contrary stem from hindsight. Bothering any further to appease fans of that mindset is pointless.
@lukemallia
I mentioned the 18 months and I meant that it’s a short period for fans to declare Berbatov a flop. Of course he should have settled at the club by now. And I think that he has because his second season is better. It’s just his injuries that are becoming a concern.
Honestly, I doubt Berba has 3 good years left, but you never know. It’s not like he depends on speed. His skill will still be there at 32.
@King Eric
Good to know you still hate Stan Collybore. I was beginning to worry.
i think we could have done with tevez this season – he creates situations in the final third of the pitch with his hassling of defenders, and he’s actually quite good at running with the ball. In tight games like the Birmingham one he would have been very useful…
BUT no regrets because he is gone and that’s that! Besides it now seems obvious that there was no intention whatsoever about realistically keeping the guy at the agreed finances. It seems they just mislead the guy…
ghtt- My point stands. Freedom of speech =/= going on private property and complaining about the owners of the establishment. The Glazers bought the club and with it, the right to kick anyone out of Old Trafford.
Tony Starks – like I say tevez is like allerdyces bolton, has not good great style but is effective getting the job done
Rumour doing the rounds: Steven Gerrard is not really injured. He has been suspended for two weeks by Liverpool after a dust-up with Rafa’s right-hand man Mauricio Pellegrino at half-time during the Reading game. Sounds dubious but if you remember correctly, Gerrard showed no sign of the alleged “torn hamstring” during the game, in fact it was a piece of play by him that led to the Liverpool’s goal in the 46th minute. He was “subbed” at half time for Babel. Rumours also suggest Stevie Me has refused to play for Benitez again, but that bit sounds slightly less believable.
@Fred
Hmm. Interesting. And don’t forget that yesterday there were also reports about Gerrard asking to leave the club so that he can win trophies elsewhere.
Captain selfish wanting to jump from the sinking ship wouldn’t surprise me.
@cav
The owner thing is up for debate. Until they milk the club for the 700 million they owe, the club might as well belong to the banks and hedge funds they borrowed from.
Besides, I remember many signs inside and around Villa Park protesting against Doug Ellis.
Can someone do me a favour and go smash Tevez in the knee so I can compare the two of them clowns fairly?
Heres a better stat for you
Berbatov – 1 goal in 10 games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool
4 goals in 12 Champions League games (2 against Aalborg in the same game, 2 against Celtic in the same game), so aside from that, 0 goals in 10 games
0 goals in 1 Final (came on as a substitute)
Rooney – 9 goals in 42 games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool
16 goals in 50 Champions League games
2 goals in 5 Finals, (2 against Wigan in the same game), so aside from that, 0 goals in 4 games.
Nope, those stats are not better by any stetch of the imagination.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/17/manchester-united-glazers-ferguson-resign-protest
The Glazers may be bad for Manchester United but that is good for the game…
Last updated at 12:09 AM on 18th January 2010
Bumped into Geoffrey Boycott, England legend and Manchester United fan, in Johannesburg this week. ‘So,’ he said, with the smug smile of one who is not used to hearing bad news about his club, ‘who are we buying, then?’
http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?251-The-Glazers-may-be-bad-for-Manchester-United-but-that-is-good-for-the-game&p=252#post252
Glazer debt –
£550M+ OF ROBBERY WRITTEN INTO THE GLAZER BOND DOCUMENTS
Summary
The small print of the bond documents show that the Glazers have structured the issue to
allow them to take at least £21m of dividends out of the club every year. There is also a
http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?254-Glazer-debt&p=255#post255
So what? berba i like him, but we have to be honest
hes to slow for our attack..we attack with speed hes slowing it down!
park nani also..they have not been good this year at all..
they shouldnt be first choiche
i swear if we had a good winger and a striker replacing them..we would win everting easily..because the rest of the bunch are great!
Manchester united: Disunited on and off the pitch
One of the novel suggestions of anti-Glazer protest from Manchester United’s growing army of discontented fans is to turn their backs on the action when David Beckham and AC Milan come to Old Trafford next month.
http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?259-Manchester-united-Disunited-on-and-off-the-pitch&p=261#post261
I think the more we talk about tevez and compare him with berbatov we are embarassing ourselves. Lets be clear tevez is by far better than berbatove in overall contribution to the team. you can’t simply present some figures here and there conclude on that because apart from the stats tevez is always working hard and give difenders and opposition players hard time so some of our players like ronney and ronaldo do the damage. Well let’s not talk about a player who left united that should be the point! Fergi is the greatest manager that ever lived but he also knows that tevez is better(simply incomparable) than berbatove. I think let’t forget tevez and moveon.
Bitter rivals are united in strife
Manchester United and Liverpool may always be divided on the pitch – but according to worried anti-Glazer Red Devils fans the north-west giants are welded together off it.
http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?256-Bitter-rivals-are-united-in-strife
If the argument is based on financial terms(no money to pay for his contract) i can understand that however comparing berbatov with tevez is pure ignorance on our part shut-up!
(to the tune of Daddy Cool)
MAME
MAME DIOUF
MAME
MAME DIOOOOOOOUF
MANCHESTER UNITED FOR SALE AS SPLASH SHEIKHS LINE UP £1.2b TAKEOVER BID
MANCHESTER UNITED’S sunshine break in Qatar last week could lead to a spectacular £1.2billion takeover of the club.http://www.nzurisana.com/forum/showthread.php?264-Manchester-united-for-sale-as-splash-sheikhs-line-up-1-2m-takeover-bid&p=266#post266
Does anyone remember Berbatov’s performance away at Inter Milan last season? He ran the show in that game and it’s one of the few times I can remember him turning up in a big match. I wish he could play like that all the time. He’s so talented and I just want him to fit in at United, but sadly it looks like that isn’t going to happen.
Sprite
Ah so you’re another one of the ‘intelligent’ debaters right?
If I don’t agree with your opinions I should F*** off to Eastlands should I?
You reckon that Tevez is a useless headless chicken who couldn’t fit into the current team and that one lost game means he’s NOT on fire?
I’d suggest that 12 goals in 10 games means that he is on fire and it’s daft to ignore that just because SAF didn’t sign him and he’s gone to the bitters. Since he has been at Eastlands Tev has played as a lone striker, a support striker and a wide player and has excelled at all three. Don’t you watch the highlights of other games other than Utd? You really should get more facts and have lesss opinions. If Berba’s worth £30mil then Tev is worth more than that and his loss is the Bitters gain and anyone with an ounce of nouse can see that.
Seemples
Alphie Izzet
No, if you dont think rooney is better than tevez you should do so..and I think he is not on fire anymore, if he scores in the next 3 games i am wrong but i think he will go into a bad period.. You are blind if you dont see that berba offers something else than tevez, and if you think what tevez offers is most important then so be it
Tevez won a champs league with us.
He was wrong to act the way he did after leaving united.
However that doesnt change the simple fact that he is better than Berbatov.
Those stats look like they include bench time???
Berbatov makes Veron look good.
sad but true.
Saying otherwise is just an ostrich impersonation of the highest order.
classy stats…the reason why only EPL goals are mentioned and compared is because of berbatov’s poor ratio on another fronts, especially CL what he was brought for…
pathetic
besides – when comparing these
“Dimitar Berbatov – 08/09 – First season
2643 minutes
9 goals (25th highest in the league)
1 goal per 294 minutes (4 hours 54 minutes)
10 assists (2nd highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 139 minutes (2 hours 19 minutes)
Carlos Tevez – 08/09 – Second season
1856 minutes
5 goals (53rd highest in the league)
1 goal per 371 minutes (6 hours 11 minutes)
3 assists (74th highest in the league)
1 goal scored/created per 232 minutes (3 hours 52 minutes)” –
who is to say that tevez wouldn’t have done even better than berbatov had he been treated properly…finally he was class towards the end of the season when SAF saw that it was more logical to play tevez over berbatov
‘Conservative with his energy’ – best excuse yet.
What I want to know is, what exactly does he need to conserve his energy for – tracking back, chasing lost causes, and making great runs into the box when his side are chasing a game?
Or, does he need to conserve all that energy for one piece of ‘magic’ pass or control that has all of his fans convulsing with excitment.
Maybe that explains the end product of his control is totally fucking woeful at times, as he scuffs his shot into the ground or wide of the post?
Get a fucking grip – even Cashley Cole can kill a long ball with one touch.
Can’t wait for the day this operation goes ahead and he comes back fully fit.
Because there really will be nowhere for him or his sympathisers to hide.
@islandred1981
Why should any Berba sympathiser need to hide? Since when is it a crime to support players that wear our shirt?
Costas – since nani comes to mention
@CROoney
Same goes for him. He wears our shirt, so I support him. If I could restrain myself from bashing Tevez for his antics last May, then I can do it for anyone else. Hell, I even thought Kleberson and Djemba Djemba could make it!
Besides, I think we as fans have become spoiled. If a winger doesn’t perform in Ronaldo standards, he is crap. If a striker doesn’t perform in Ruud standards, he is crap. If a player doesn’t run around the pitch like Keane did, he is also crap. Football isn’t as black and white.
Costas
What excuse will there be when/IF he comes back fully fit and is still putting in woeful performances – let me put it like that.
then we’re in agreement costas..what i meant was that he has 3 years left in him AT BEST (forgot that part) so if he’s gonna blow us all away he’d better get crackin
Berba vs Tevez again
YAWN!!!.
Fucking boring save to say CRooney you are only on here when Tevez crops up. Are you sure you ain’t Kia Joorabichim?
@islandred1981
I don’t think his injury is an excuse anyway. If your leg isn’t 100%, you simply don’t play. Kind of like Vidic against Leeds. He came back against Hull and in my opinion has done quite well since. 3 goals in 4 games. If he does have the surgery, I doubt we will see much of him this season. And when the summer arrives, it will be up to Ferguson to decide if Berbatov is worth keeping around. Personally, I am not disappointed with him this season. It’s not like we have played better in games he hasn’t featured in.
@lukemallia
Oh, I see mate. Then we do agree. A striker has to be very special to stay in top condition and form at the age of 32 or 33.
Costas – fair enough
but in all honesty, i’ve never rated berbatov as anything special as i could find some other players who are class for the small clubs…or were
for me he wasn’t anything above those…
king eric – i post here only about tevez, true…because it’s a very controvercial subject which interests me the most…and this place is one of the most biased places on the web when it comes to hating tevez…
which is ridiculous…simply because he felt let down and because he was angry and frustrated by ferguson who at least showed that he isn’t a man of his words…how else to explain his agreement with the fee in the first place, then backing down
CROoney the other way to explain it is that united MAY have had agreed a price beforehand so they had the option to buy him which they deicded to pass up..kind of like with ljalic(though the way we conducted ourself in that regard is embarassing)..having had him at united for 2 years fergie &/or the money men thought that he wasnt worth the agreed upon price OR we wouldnt meet his wage demands…rightly or wrongly is up for debate but thats how it can be explained
personally i thought that with tevez gone we might see more of the young striekrs comin through like wellbeck & macheda but wellbeck has been dismal when played as well as bein played out of position whilst macheda…well i have no idea why he hasnt given macheda a bit of a look in..when he last played (i think it was in the league cup) he fitted in quite nicely into the team..& not a full strength team at that..still as to how & when the big man uses the players i guess he knows best
@CROoney
Lets face it. Fergie and Gill were less than honest with him for almost a year. I won’t deny that. I don’t think he started less games because we were hoping to drop his price. Whoever thought that Tevez wouldn’t have 32 million pound offers from the likes of Chelsea or City, was deluding themselves. Berbatov just started more often because Ferguson was playing a different tempo compared to the 07-08 season. Less frenetic and looking to win games by 1-0.
Tevez lost the support of a lot of people with how he conducted himself. I think he could have settled things in private instead of having a go at the club during the most crucial part of the season. He was right, he just went the wrong way about it, in my opinion. Honestly, I don’t know how United fans outside ROM feel. There are many fans that come here and support him. But the Old Trafford crowd was pretty unanimous when he came back in September.
costas – good post mate
but in all honesty ferguson didn’t play berba because he wanted to win games 1-0..oh, he wants to win with style, with a far greater margin..i just have to believe that. and tbh, he’s said that numerous of times during the years..it was more vice versa case—we were winning games 1-0 because of the slow tempo that came as a consequence of playing a bit letargic berbatov..
countless times last season i saw ronaldo on the wing, ready to whip it in, or to beat a player, then looking around and waiting for berbatov to come …he was ridiculously slowing us down..and in my honest opinion(between you and me
) ferguson opted to play berbatov in order to let him gel in, settle in, and of course, to show “us ” why he chose to pay that ridiculously overrated sum of money…
he still hasn’t persuaded me to believe that “berbatov gives us antoher dimension”, that “berbatov is the new cantona”, and that “berbatov has been brought for europe”…it’s been more than a year since his last goal in the CL…quite a floppish wouldn’t you say…and he said all those things i quotted ..so him, or scott on here, can make fool out of the majority of fans on here(or wherever) by impliying that he’s been a success, but he’s not making me one of them…you’re right about tevez being right in how he felt but it’s the wrong way to express it…but then again , who is without sin, let him first cast a stone
one more thing about tevez…he plays with style that can’t be valued only on goals on assists..no one has ever counted the times when he forced defenders/midfielders into mistakes that resulted in someone else scoring or having an assist…also, that style of playing brought us a constant pressure and fluidity in our attack, and at the same time, reducing the number of opposition attacks or even the number of the chances our opponents created…while he’s not the greatest technician, he created a tramendeous dose of pressure on our opponents that resuled in us having more chances,counter attacks,corner kicks etc
@CROoney
About Berbatov in the Champion’s League. He hasn’t played too often. I think he has 4 goals in 6 starts. He scored braces in his first 2, but hasn’t scored since. Not much to go on really. The last big game he played in Europe was Porto away where we were playing keep ball after Ronny’s strike.
One of the reasons why I am not too fond of comparing them, is because they are different players. Tevez has the attributes you mentioned(and that kind of pressure is something we don’t have this season), Berbatov(at least Man United’s Berbatov) starts his game almost at the half way line and looks to bring people in. And I know that it’s not something that is enough, but his touch is a bonus for him. Look at the chance he created for himself against Burnley. Not every striker can do that.
The funny thing is that we compare this two, but they made a pretty good pairing last January while Rooney was injured. It was one of Berbatov’s best spells at United.
do people really think he ment to make that little chip in the burnley match ? i thought it was accidental
CROoney
I think he meant to do it. It reminded me a bit of the flick that Bergkamp did against Newcastle in 2002 ad was voted goal of the decade. But Bergkamp’s was much harder.
yeah…it reminded me too…but bergkamp’s was way more complicated …i’m still trying to figure out how the fuck he did it ?
it was like flipping it on the one side, then turning around a player on the completely opposite side…it was sick…i still don’t think berba meant to flip it that way…i think he meant to stop it or something, not playing it forward like he did…but that’s just me
CROoney
For the Bergkamp goal, I think we can credit my compatriot, Dabizas, for not having a clue about Bergkamp’s movement. What an awful defender he is!
Of course Berbatov meant it. Some of his skill and technique is outrageous. That Bergkamp goal was absolute top drawer.
I don’t think tevez would have reacted like that at the end of the season had he been second choice for a better player. But to choose berbatove ahead of him is sicknning and i understand that. we sacrificed tevez for a very poor player. however the decision had been and we have to move on and close the fill on tevez.
manu4life – “don’t think tevez would have reacted like that at the end of the season had he been second choice for a better player. But to choose berbatove ahead of him is sicknning and i understand that”
great post mate..excactly what i meant