Wayne Rooney has had some early shouts for player of the season after going from strength to strength in front of goal, but how does he really compare with other strikers in the league? Dimitar Berbatov gets a lot of stick and labelled a “flop”, from sections of our own support as much as elsewhere, but how has he really done this season?
All shall be revealed…
1. Wayne Rooney
Minutes: 2301
Goals: 23
Ratio: 1 goal per 100 minutes
Position: 1st
2. Didier Drogba
Minutes: 1944
Goals: 19
Ratio: 1 goal per 102 minutes
Position: 2nd
3. Fernando Torres
Minutes: 1222
Goals: 12
Ratio: 1 goal per 102 minutes
Position: 7th
4. Jermaine Defoe
Minutes: 1873
Goals: 16
Ratio: 1 goal per 117 minutes
Position: 3rd
5. Louis Saha
Minutes: 1757
Goals: 13
Ratio: 1 goal per 135 minutes
Position: 5th
6. Carlos Tevez
Minutes: 1876
Goals: 13
Ratio: 1 goal per 144 minutes
Position: 5th
7. Dimitar Berbatov
Minutes: 1401
Goals: 9
Ratio: 1 goal per 155 minutes
Position: 11th
8. Darren Bent
Minutes: 2320
Goals: 15
Ratio: 1 goal per 155 minutes
Position: 4th
9. Carlton Cole
Minutes: 1463
Goals: 9
Ratio: 1 goal per 163 minutes
Position: 11th
10. Emmanuel Adebayor
Minutes: 1571
Goals: 9
Ratio: 1 goal per 175 minutes
Position: 11th
11. Gabriel Agbonlahor
Minutes: 2308
Goals: 11
Ratio: 1 goal per 210 minutes
Position: 9th
12. Bobby Zamora
Minutes: 1845
Goals: 8
Ratio: 1 goal per 231 minutes
Position: 15th
13. Nicolas Anelka
Minutes: 1926
Goals: 8
Ratio: 1 goal per 241 minutes
Position: 15th
These stats don’t include the goals of Cesc Fabregas (12 goals, 7th highest scorer), Frank Lampard (10 goals, 10th highest scorer) or Dirk Kuyt (9 goals, 11th highest scorer). Whilst of course it is a good achievement for all of these players to score as many goals as they have, the purpose of this post is to compare Premiership strikers, not Premiership goalscorers.
It is interesting to note that only United and City have two strikers in the top scorers (although Anelka does feature, but with just one goal for every three hours on the pitch). Rooney and Tevez both play more for their respective clubs and are first choice strikers, therefore it stands to reason they are ahead of Berbatov and Adebayor in the goalscoring stakes, given that they are more match fit and have a regular run in the team.
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Check out the stats for the defence
Check out the stats for Rooney vs Ronaldo + Tevez
Man Utd News 24/7
Rooney has player 1099 minutes more than Torres
wow
Berbatov has scored 9 goals, not 11
What about RVP? 7 goals in 11 league games?
also, why not include owen? owen may not have played many minutes but he has still got 8 goals
whats Owens goal per minute rate?….. convinced if he started he’d have more then berbatov..
Berbatov’s got 9 goals which is 1 goal per 156 minutes putting him just behind bent
@spencer
These are only the league goals adn Owen has got only 3 league goals.
Of topic, wayne bridge has made himself unavailable for england selection, saturday will be interesting.
fuck me, m i retart or wat? wat does the position on é last line of each player stats mean?
How come Berbatov has scored a few of late but last time the stats were presented they were much lower ration of goals/minutes played for Berbatov? At the time it was used to make favourable arguments re Berbatov vs Rooney.
@DEVILisRED
Position according to the number of goals scored not according to minutes/goal
DevilisREd
Top scorer list.
I see that by not doing the honorable thing DickHead Terry has forced Wayne Bridge to make himself unavailable for selection. Who is going to be left back for England now?
Good work by Roon but he needs to be more ruthless. What irks me the most is when clueless united fans get on Berba’s case. Its not just about goals. Hell we used to say that about Rooney when Ronaldo was scoring all the goals. If Torres were fit he would be giving Rooney a run for his money. I think he is the most potent front man in the premiership. The league ain’t over yet but we need consistency from the team. Ando out for the season. Thats a blow
thanks aig & brett.
fuck, now i do feel like a retart haha!
cheers!
If Drogba plays on Saturday against City he is bound to make up some ground, if there’s one thing you can be sure of in the Premiership it’s that the bitters will roll over for a tummy tickle against other title contenders.
@DEVILisRED
Welcome mate
Once wayne matured he was always gonna turn into a top class finisher. @brett1985 englands options are baines or warnock, though milner could fill in at that position.
Interesting.If Owen played as many league games as the others,he would have certainly been 5th or 6th highest.Maybe higher.
Good luck talking Lescott to SA :p
I’d bring P. Neville almost certainly.
i’m beginning to like berbatov more and more,he’s developing a better understanding with roony and is becoming very instumental in setting up goals,plus unlike alot of fans his style complements waynes need to have the freedom to roam.i think the pressure of becoming utds most expensive signing has been a burden that he has finally come to terms with and i think the best is yet to come
if i am bridge, i’ll be very tempted to fucking break terry’s leg during this sat game even get ban for life. since he’s not going to win anything with shitty, that’s è best bet i guess to end his career on a high. chelski mgr may cook up a reason in the 11th hour to pull his beloved captain out of é starting lineup.
@wayne
same here. i had always supported é berba case. & i have to admit i got more impress with him in é last few games. more energy in his play. his passing & flicks are getting more pretty & effective.
Berbatov is 7th on that list. He averages 1 in 155. Still pretty good I would say.
berba is good, really good – its just the price tag thats killing him. look if we didnt have to pay 30 mil for him, maybe what spurs paid, then of course we have a winner…the price tag is what we are judging him harshly by
lets face it, in terms of skill and finishing, he does have the goods, but because of what we paid, we expect more…unfortunately…for him ;p
i still think that we need him around and he gives us an option, we surely need a midfield maestro once scholesy retiures – i have a feeling he might call it a day this season, fingers crossed he doesnt – hamsik to replce him?
of course if we can get another striker to partner rooney and berba, then we should be fine for the next couple of seasons
defence wise, it would be great that vidic stays..really hope so, watched the interview on MUTV the other day, he says he is staying and really enjoying OT..again fingers crossed … piue, piue…sigh
all in all, good strike return this season, fun to watch at times, but we need to be consistently killing games off and controlling the tempo
silverware pls this weekend
rooney will get to play – he missed the finals last time, owen may as well… but fergie is surely going to want the win..whatever cup it is 
hope he praises Villa – then that means we will trash them – always happens when he sings the praises of the opposition
Berbatov is one of the most talented players at United. Endless amount of talent but he can’t run onto the end of a through ball. He can walk past the oppo with his footwork but will never go on a mazing run.
I’m sure if he had Rooney’s pace he would be the complete player. Also if he could run with pace I’m sure EVERYONE would love Berba. I slightly feel sorry for him for the stick he gets simply because he’s not blessed with pace.
By the way, I like Berbatov a lot and want him to start whenever. But then I also like Owen, but which is better. There’s only one way to find out………
@steamdigit
The price tag is a burden for Berbatov, but then again, it didn’t come out of our pockets did it? When it comes to transfer fees, they often tend to become excessive. Look at Tevez: Is 1 goal in 144 minutes good enough for a striker worth 47 million?
My criteria to judge Berbatov has not changed. I wanted to see him play and win big games for us. In what is appoximately 18 big games including knockout stage of the champions league, games against the top 3 (chelsea/arsenal/Liverpool), he has started from what I recall 8 such games, scored once and got one assist. His goals against minor teams, though some consolation are not answering his detractors. Apart from Everton his goals have predominantly been against relegation threatened sides. Plus it is a case of give and take. Whilst his goals of late have been encouraging and resulted in some praise- i note the responses above- when I felt we needed him to win matches for us against Leeds and Everton he didn’t. His contributions though sometimes present- goal against everton- are rarely decisive. This may be harsh but other players are pulling out heroics eg Rooney against Milan. So when all the players were tired against Everton and we needed fresh legs- well Berbatov didn’t even get 90 minutes. Tells me a lot.
I know there are positive things which people will say about him but any of the things I mention eg. that he start the CL final last year or the semis could be deemed a disaster in itself. No matter what reason you give for this and I would say cause he isn’t good enough, he is no use to us not playing. And arguably no use when he does play as well.
brett1985 – “who is gonna be left back for England now”? Who cares mate!
King Eric Said,
February 25th, 2010 @14:20
brett1985 – “who is gonna be left back for England now”? Who cares mate!
——————-
I do because it’s going to be Baines or Lescott and I am going to enjoy seeing them get stuffed.
brett1985 – Yeah good point. Take it you ain’t an Ingerlund fan? Sorry for having digs about your comments on Ronaldo.
King Eric
No worries.
all those fools thinking rooney is not prolific striker at the beginning of the season better sit down!
**sits down**
I’m not English and a united fan. It is a bit of a toxic combination where England are concerned unfortunately. Plus my nation rarely gets to major championship so if i dislike england I have 31 teams to support
So all berba has to do is get the winners against liverpoo, chelsea and milan to be accepted, good luck berba.
So all berba has to do is get the winners against liverpoo, chelsea and milan to be accepted, good luck berba.
—
Unfortunately from my point of view that has been the case for 18 months. Not just that but in such games there is less than a 1 in 2 chance that he will even play. That is why I am very disappointed about him.
@brett1985
When we use a 4-5-1/4-3-3, whether it is this season or last, why would Sir Alex start Berbatov? You try using his lack of starts in ‘big games’ as a negative factor, yet most of those games, especially the CL matches, all used some form of a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with Ronaldo/Rooney as the lone striker. I don’t know how many times you’ve brought up the Champions League final when discussing Berbatov. It is unfair to slag him for not being able to break into a 4-5-1/4-3-3 when he is competing for that spot with Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo. Also, I find it funny that you bring up how he hasn’t started the “big matches.” Last season, we lost to Liverpool twice, drew Chelsea, beat Chelsea, lost to Arsenal, and drew Arsenal. You consider that a good record? Out of a possible 18 points, we gained 5 points. The only “big” game which we won was the 3-0 dismantling of Chelsea in which Berbatov was magic. This season, we have lost to Liverpool, lost to Chelsea, and beaten Arsenal twice- 6 points out of a possible 15- again, not a good record. Seems to me like your argument doesn’t hold much water at all. If anything, it seems as though maybe Berbatov SHOULD be playing in the big games, unfortunately I don’t think we have the midfield grit to play only 2 in the center of the park.
Then again, you’ve never supported Berbatov from the start, so I suppose I’m making a moot point. I have realized that people have already made up their minds about Berbatov- which is a shame because you can see how much he wants to prove himself.
@Sanj
Yeah, unfortunately it won’t change. It’s a lost cause.
@brett1985
I accept he hasn’t done it in the big games but it seems no matter what he does you’ve already made your mind up about him, i hope he proves you wrong. ps any – one think we should bring shawcross back if rios long term future is in doubt?
@Costas
Do you think Hargreaves will ever return? If so, do you think he will be the same player he was? And if he returns and is the usual Hargo, you think Sir Alex will be more likely to try perhaps just Hargo and Fletch in the middle in a 4-4-2?
@willierednut
Rio’s injury problems are really starting to cast a huge doubt on his United future. Wondering whether Smalling was brought in as cover for Rio, not Vida.
@Sanj
It was mentioned in another thread just before. Hargreaves’s situation is a tough one to call right now. In my opinion, he will probably return for good in the summer. If he manages to return before that, I will consider it a bonus. But I don’t want us to rush anything just because of what happened to Anderson.
Sir Alex will probably try all sorts of combinations. He will probably rotate the midfielders, like he did in 07-08. If I recall, Hargo and Fletch played together just once in that season. At West Ham. it’s a good combination. Very solid. Especially for European nights and away fixtures. We can afford t play 4-4-2 with these 2 in there.
Well I have made up my mind about him and if he steps up to the plate, then he will have done it in those games but that doesn’t change the past. I sat down to watch the Milan match, he didn’t start. This guy is clearly not a big player for us. Great players don’t miss out such matches.
Sanj Wasn’t your point that after 18 months we should not be judging him? So I will set that aside to entertain your points judging him. Again I am going back to the point. He doesn’t play more than 1/2 those games so what of him? Am I not entitled to be disappointed about that. Is that not in itself the key point here.
The idea that he doesn’t fit into our main formations (4-3-3/4-5-1) despite his supposed talent is one of the strangest things I’ll admit to coming across. Wait a second, we are often told he is the man to hold the ball up, make space and bring in others. So he is in fact ideal for 4-5-1. Someone at some stage is overstating his qualities. He just isn’t good enough to get in the team and players like Ronaldo and Tevez showed that there are spots in the formation. It isn’t Rooney who is keeping Berbatov out, it is the likes of Park, Nani and Valencia being a better proposition.
You are right to say big games are often close affairs, not always wins in the absense of Berbatov and with respect not always wins when Berabtov plays. And speaking of close affairs arent those the ‘tight’ games that Berabtov is supposed to unlock.
@sanj
Its a real worry about rio for me when he’s fit and on form he’s still the best ch in europe.
Is it me or just that everytime I come here, there’s either a “Berbatov Debate” going on or a “United are one (Rooney) man team/we are fucked without him?”
Jeez…
I really feel sorry for Ando though….
Here is my summary of Berba’s United Career
Season 1
Purple patch at Christmas
Goal Drought 3 in 23 til end of the season
Virtually nothing in big games
Season 2
Infrequent scoring at the start of the season
Steady scoring into the new year
Not getting picked for big games Arsenal away/Milan away
Believe me if he actually scored in such games and made the contribution- I’d say so.
Smalling will replace vidic in 2 3 years.evans will take rios place by then.evans has to develop more and needs rio or vidic playing with him to remain calm and it makes him feel easy.
“Dimitar Berbatov gets a lot of stick and labelled a “flop”, from sections of our own support as much as elsewhere, but how has he really done?”
He’s flopped. HTH.
@brett
good posts mate.good reasoning too.
The fact that he isnt picked for big games says it all really.whatever formation we play it is up to the players to adapt accordingly.
Yes, he is ideal for holding the ball up, making space, and bringing others in. However, when you have a certain Wayne Rooney in the squad who has already played second fiddle to Ronaldo, Berbatov is not ideal for a 4-5-1. More importantly, he is not ideal with our current fit midfield. We cannot say we have 2 midfielders that can boss the middle of the park. This is NOT Berbatov’s fault!
Berbatov is held out of the lineup because of the likes of Park, Nani, and Valencia? Perhaps because they fit as the wide players in a 4-5-1? Not sure exactly what you’re trying to say. How is it Berbatov’s fault that our midfield cannot accommodate a 4-4-2? You blame him for not appearing in the big games, which is out of his control.
It seems to me like you’re just dislike the chap in our team. I didn’t say we shouldn’t judge him after 18 months, don’t know where you got that from, I just think it’s unfair to slag him for things that are beyond his control.
He did not ask to be 31 million pounds nor did he ask for United’s best box to box midfielder to be crocked for 18 months as well. It should be noted that Berbatov and Hargreaves played together maybe once? Not sure exactly, but it is either once or never.
@AIG
I disagree, it is not up to the players to adapt to the formation. Not every player is Wayne Rooney. It is up to the manager to discover the most effective formation and position of his squad. One of the major theories as to why Anderson has somewhat regressed is that he is constantly played out of position.
Wazza couldn’t adapt to playing on the left, doesn’t make him any less of a player.
Oh and let’s take out Fabregas and Lampard because they have outscored Berbatov despite being midfielders and would make his stats look less impressive… ;-D
@Brett1985 – fairly accurate summary. Scott loves to trot out the stats but they don’t tell the real story. Berba only plays against weak teams, that’s why his minutes-to-goals ratio looks favourable.
Let’s see which great teams Berbatov has done the business against this season: Everton, Portsmouth, Burnley, Wigan, Hull, Blackburn, Sunderland, Stoke.
And some of the teams has he either been utter shite against or not even considered good enough to play: Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, AC Milan, Aston Villa, Man City.
Berbatov played great against West Ham, his touch and passing are different class. I’d love him to succeed but let’s not kid ourselves that he has been a huge success.
I am trying to say that for all the faults of Nani/Park and Valencia they keep Berbatov out of that lineup (indirectly). Ferguson has in the past picked Tevez up front, Ronaldo. That space is available with the slight downfall of Rooney on the left. If Berbatov was a standout player he’d get that position. Ferguson present direct choice is Berbatov up front, Rooney left, Valencia right but he mainly goes with Rooney, Park left, Valencia right. That is a major reflection of Fergusons valuation of Dimitar whether you agree or disagree. Indeed can you not further think that there were games where Rooney was on the left, Berbatov should have been up top and Ronaldo on the left. For some reason that formation wasn’t played in the final. Berbatov was not better than Tevez, Rooney or Ronaldo by Ferguson’s judgment.
Don’t get me wrong to a certain point your points have worth even if I do disagree with them but the reason I disagree is because there are better solutions. Why invest so much time defending a guy who doesn’t play? I sincerely believe your argument has to be that Berbatov must play in 4-5-1. Even if you turn out to be wrong – a player who plays can have value and a chance. But if you are happy with him and happy that he doesn’t play 4-5-1 then only two outcomes are possible. You want to get rid of the formation and fly open in major matches. Notwithstanding any poor results we have had I feel 4-5-1 has worked really well for us on a number of occasions. If you are happy with 4-5-1, which by definition is excluding Berbatov, then I would just say that long term why fight for Berbatov, because getting a player in who can playing in 4-5-1 and do some of the other things Berbatov does is a clear solution
Take your pick and sorry if it wasn’t you who said about not judging him etc. I must be mistaken.
@Brett
I totally understand what you’re saying, tho it may seem otherwise. I also wish he would play more in the big games and show what he showed against West Ham more consistently. However, do you really think our ideal formation would ever be shunting Rooney out to the left? Maybe when Ronaldo was here, but I don’t think is feasible now. I understand your argument that he should play in a 4-5-1 if he is that good, but I just don’t think Sir Alex wants to put Rooney out left, especially with the form he is in. Just seems like bad timing for Berba.
So funny to see people now rating Berbatov… Scott instead of being polite and proving it by facts, just say we told them so. Remember …………
IF YOU DON’T GET BERBATOV – YOU DON’T GET FOOTBALL.
He was key in the victory on Tuesday and has been nowhere near the ‘flop’ that some easily influenced ‘fans’ like to say. The guy oozes class, he wasn’t brought in to score stupid amounts of goals, instead he was to be the link between our midfield and rooney or an other. This is evident in the link up play with Valencia on tuesday. I only have my UEFA C Licence and I can see that, it’s not difficult to see why he is so important to us.
Great article Scott.
@sanj
Just because Berbatov cant adapt to a suitable formation we cant change the formation to suit him.The formation will depend on which game we play.Whatever it is he still is playing as striker whether it is 4-4-2 or 4-5-1.I am not slating him here and am backing him but whatever formation he plays in it is upto him to maximise his strengths suitably.Apart from lacking pace he has got all the other qualities
Very few players are as good and as versatile as Wayne Rooney. Berbatov seems to lack confidence and belief in his won ability.he has to believe he can do it and i am sure he will. he is doing well of late.
Consider the game against West Ham. he was sent clear couple if times but because he lacks pace he was unable to finish.However his passes to valencia for the first couple of goals were pure class. he dosent just have to score goals to prove himself.
if you take his last 6 to 8 games he’s been very effective which to me is a sign he’s beginning to settle none of us understand the pressures of playing for a team like utd and how long it takes to adjust,in regards to the 4-5-1 formation isn’t that more of a counter attack fast break formation which really doesn’t suit someone with a lack of pace plus with roony playing so well its hard for any other attacker to get a chance to play.i just hope sir alex keeps the faith because i rate the guy
@AIG
You said “whatever formation we play it is up to the players to adapt accordingly.” I disagreed and said it was up to the manager to find the correct formation and positioning of his squad- I never said we should change the formation to suit Berbatov. If anything, we are changing the formation to suit Wayne Rooney, which is fine with me. If we play a 4-5-1, you think Berbatov should play where? Obviously Rooney should be the striker, Berbatov is not a winger, so where does that leave him!? Perhaps as an attacking midfielder, as I think we have discussed, which by the way, I thought he seemed to be operating in that area against West Ham. But Sir Alex is yet to actively try Berbatov in this role because it brings him too far away from goal, and with his lack of pace, it would eliminate his finishing ability (which contrary to popular belief is there). Sir Alex favors the 4-5-1 in big games and in Europe. Put 2 and 2 together. Berbatov will not play in a 4-5-1 when Rooney is fit. Ergo, Berbatov will not start in big games or in Europe. You must maximize the potential of your most talented player. Unfortunately for Berbatov, it comes at his expense (coupled with the fact that we don’t have Hargreaves to try a 4-4-2). However, against “lesser” teams, he will be integral to our campaign to win the title. The logic of saying he scored against lower teams is a preposterous argument. Last time I checked, a game against Burnley was worth the same amount of points as a game against Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal.
At least these stats prove conclusively that Tevez is better than Berbatov, so we can put that one to bed.
@sanj
he played against liverpool this season and both he and wazza looked out of sorts. After that game rooney has mostly started alone in the big games.
I agree with you on him being given a chance.he played the everton game and though we lost i think he was our best player.
Fred keep dreaming sunshine!
Wow. Rooney gets a goal every 100 minutes. I live these kind of stats. Also proves that Berbatov is good value too.
I still think Berbatov will be sold at the end of the season. It is all well and good saying ‘if he had pace…’. but he doesn’t. he also doesn’t make enough effort to get on the end of things or to get in the box. He just isn’t right for the club and we aren’t right for him because we aren’t getting the best out of him. for that reason, i think it would be best if we parted ways in the summer.
its also well and good saying ‘he is about more than goals’ but he is still a striker! by any strikers standards 9 goals with just two and a bit months of the season to go is poor. i agree some strikers are about more than goals, but those strikers still average 17-20 goals every season.
the thought of rooney shifted to the left gives me nightmares, it is something no one ever wants to see ever again in my eyes rooney is awful on the wings, it would be like saying lets put john os shea in CM he just cant do it. I dont care how much of a team player rooney is he has not got the dribbling skills that wing play gear shifting pace to play right or left wing, he is centre player yes he will always go right left but to stick him in that position water downs what he does best, getting involved in the game dictate the play he is not has versitile has ronaldo and that is why I am glad rooney is now playing the striker role even though his role has a striker has changed from second striker to a central striker.
King Eric – I like baines has a player, he is very much in the mold of the neville brothers not flashy but does his job right. But it shows wayne bridge hates terry, and terry himself has said he denys cheating that is way his wife has stayed with him strange how that has come out.
@fred
Its funny as a united fan u say tevez is better than berba.tevez is one of the most selfish player u will ever come across.the guy is a big lier,he used to complain in every 2 months last season while playing for us and berba who has been critisised by us since he joined us hasnt said a thing wrong about the club or about fergie.Yeah tevez is a good player but wats the use of that if u are not honest to ur own club.
Its clear that some fans will always crititisise berba even if he plays good.I just hope united win the league and also try to win the champs league(although i aint to sure about that) and every player contributes to it.
UNITED FOREVER
@Fred
And apparently Defoe is better than Tevez. And he didn’t even cost 47 million.
brett – Where are you from then mate?
Costas – I laughed my ass off when ledley king said defoe was better than rooney. I know because defoe his kings team mate but that is just taking the piss, it is like saying lennon is better than cristiano ronaldo
Going by your name Australian?
willierednut – hello mate. I think Shawcross has found his level at Stoke. Was chuffed for him last night scoring AND captaining his side to victory against the bitters.
Defoe is a very good striker but at the moment rooney and dogba are head and shoulders above anyone else.not much to choose between the two
Sanj – Some great posts, spot on as usual mate.
Fred – I don’t think anyone is saying he has been a “huge” success.
Drogba is a horrible cheating cunt with the heart of a fucking ant. Not fit to lace Wayne’s boots.
I think another good stat would be to compare the goals/per efforts on goal ratio. I am pretty sure that the likes of Tevez and Defoe have more efforts on goal than Berbatov. And that’s why I often say lets not compare Berbatov to a typical centre forward, because he doesn’t play as one for us. The West Ham game was one of the few exceptions to that.
@RTNK
Well, haven’t you heard that each guy thinks that his girlfriend is the prettiest one?
Footballers are like that with their teammates.
I am willing to bet money that a year or two down the line everyone will be banging on about Berbatov. He will make it as a big player at United I am sure of that.
aig – when torres is fit he is up there with the best
@ Fred
Lets see how many Kettle Neck scores next season. He wanted to prove a point this season that Fergie and Utd were wrong to let him go. Maybe next season he might want to keep proving the point so SAF Might buy him back. NOT!
I must be watching a totally different player or i’m bias or something. If Berbatov finishes the season on 15+ goals that still won’t be good enough for some fans.
King eric
right about that.doing well at the moment though
derek mcgovern
john terry
stevie me
drogba.
Biggest cunts.hate all of them.
Rtnk
when fit he is right there with the best. he is too injury prone certainly for a 26 year old he should do better
who is derek mcgovern
alex is god – I agree in his first season for how he finished his chances was the best I have ever seen especialy in a 1 on 1 situation with the GK
Rtnk
derek mcgovern writes for the mirror and is a betting tipster whose tips if followed can lead you on the streets in a few days because they are mostly wrong.he is also a liverpool fan.
Hang about he’s only scored NINE this year.
None in the cups and None in Europe.
So Wayne Rooney – Didier Drogba – Fernando Torres – Jermaine Defoe – Louis Saha – Carlos Tevez – Darren Bent – Gabriel Agbonlahor they’ve all scored more goals then Dimitar Berbatov in the league this seaosn. He’s only scored 9 so he’s on a level with Carlton Cole, and Cole has played less minutes then Berbatov this season, and he plays for a lesser club where they enjoy less possession and less goal opportunities.
But stats are always gonna be funny – you could argue BENT is up there with the best because he plays for a team that doesn’t enjoy HALF the possession the big teams do yet Bent still manages to consistently score against Big teams. Having said that, im not bashing Berby I just think circumstances at the club mean he’s had to be sacrificed in big games, just like Rooney had to be sacrificed and forced to play as a bloody winger in big games to accomodate Ronaldo last season. Its the nature of the Beast. But if our first choice Defense and Midfield are all fit and in form, I think Rooney and Berbatov in a 4-4-2 would be amazing. We played poorly against Everton and Liverpool away from home in that formation, but we did well against lowly West Ham at home. Who knows? Nobody is denying Berbatovs obvious talent but at the same time nobody can deny his time with us so far has been less then amazing. The stats above don’t lie, except where they say he’s scored 11 LOL thats a damn lie…. He needs to hit his TEENS this season, and he needs to hit 20 next season. Thats not too much to ask from a 30 million STRIKER is it? Please let me know if im being too demanding or anything. Besides, If we wanted a Creative Midfielder to link up our play we should’ve just bloody bought one for alot less, no, Berby was bought for goals and I for one look forward to seeing him deliver on them.
AIG – oh yes that muppet
“If Berbatov finishes the season on 15+ goals that still won’t be good enough for some fans.”
I don’t think we need to worry about Berba scoring over 15 goals, let’s be honest.
Paul Parker, you normally talk some shite but you’re spot on this time.
My tongue in cheek comment about these stats proving that Tevez is better than Berba were meant to illustrate the dubious nature of stats sometimes.
Also, why has Scott ranked Berba higher than Darren Bent when they have the same minutes-to-goals ratio but Bent has scored 6 more goals than Berba? Because Berba has played less minutes he will say and that’s more impressive than six more goals (whilst playing for a vastly inferior team no less!)
Noteworthy that Bent scored against Chelsea (home and away) Arsenal and Liverpool. A feat Berbatov and his cult members can only dream about! He also scored against United.
Going to get slaughtered for this but technically Kuyt is a striker but FSW has not played him correctly. It does seem uncommon for teams to have two top strikers anymore especially in the Premier League.
@Fred
Didn’t Berbatov score on multiple occasions against United, Chelsea and Arsenal when he was at Spurs? It’s easier to score goals in a team that starts with you week in week out and revolves around you. Look at Tevez.
I know that he hasn’t done as well as some people think he should given his price tag. But comparing him to Bent? Jeez…
@Paul Parker
excellent post. spot on.
@ Fred and brett1985
agree with you guys as well on the points raised.
Maybe we should have counted the stats of our joint second most prolific striker as well..”own goals”
We have to be honest, his next goal will be a MILESTONE, because Berbatov is yet to score double digit goals for us in the Premier League, so if he reaches his TEENS we should all be very grateful. But next Season? If he isn’t up there neck and neck with Rooney and Drogba and Defoe and all the other consistent goal scorers I think his time must be up. For now im continuing being patient. I’d hoped he would do well in Europe but if he continues bagging important goals for us before the season finishes that will do just as nicely. So I’ll hold off my judgement until his third season, because if I judged him now, 18 league goals so far in 2 seasons is pathetic for a 30 million pound striker who has played in the Premier League for years. So I hope he starts banging em in next season, we can’t continue with him as our first choice partner for Rooney is he’s only scoring 9 odd goals a season, injury or no injury. If anything, the Stats above show how many other strikers have played for a similar number of minutes and scored a similar number of goals for lesser clubs. Torres has scored more goals with less playing time. Eitherway, I really hope he shocks us all next year with at least 20 goals in the Premier league alone. Thats not too much to ask for in exchange for 30 Million Pounds, is it?
@PAUL Parker
I think I have asked this again, but what does this have to do with his price tag? A price tag that got inflated at least by 5 million on the final day of the transfer window?
And I will reiterate my opinion that the comparison in this thread is wrong for the simple reason that Berbatov hasn’t played as a centre forward this season. He hasn’t got as many goalscoring opportunities as the rest of them have.
Anelka is a goal every 4 hours
I agree it’s ridiculous to compare Berba to a striker with 15 goals who regularly scores against the top teams. Berba has a long way to go before he reaches Bent’s level as a striker.
Only joking of course. I was comparing their stats, you see, and proving once again that stats don’t tell the whole story. The angle of this article is that Berbatov is really a top striker but I’m still unconvinced. You could probably pick apart his goals if you wanted; for example, his goal against Hull was a tap-in put on a plate for him by Rooney’s hard work. His goal against Everton was futile anyway as he was anonymous for the rest of the game, even missing his customary sitter as we were soundly beaten. The only important goal I can remember from him this season was the first goal against Blackburn.
He has, however, produced some good performances and created a few goals for others (usually against shite teams but still…)
You’re right though, Berbatov used to be one of the top strikers in the Premier League. His performance for United has been disappointing. It’s obviously his temperament, let’s face it, the guy is a shrinking violet. Not United material.
That was in response to Costas btw
@Fred
I agree about the stats. And I have said that it’s not fair to compare Berbatov to others when he doesn’t play under the same circumstances. At the moment, I don’t think he has proved that he is a flop or a failure. The jury is still out on him. I know quite a few fans believe that he should have been a success by now, but Cole and Sheringham weren’t too popular with fans after their first 2 seasons either. For Teddy that all changed in the final week of the 98-99 season.
Keep in mind that 18 out of Rooney’s 23 goals have come against teams on the the bottom half the table too. It’s easier to score against shit teams.
You thought Berba was anonymous at Goodison? I thought he was one of our most lively players on the day.
@Costas “I think I have asked this again, but what does this have to do with his price tag? A price tag that got inflated at least by 5 million on the final day of the transfer window?”
TBF, you’re the one who has twice in this thread downplayed Tevez’s goals uof his £47m price tag.
I can’t be bothered debating the merits of Berbatov anymore. IMHO, the only thing stopping Fergie from selling him this summer is the fact that we’re skint and wouldn’t be able to afford an adequate replacement. So it’s up to Berbatov to up his game now.
The day he scores an important goal for us in a big game I promise I’ll convert to the Church of Berbatology.
Who’s worried?
Berbatov isn’t our main striker like Drogba, Defoe, Bent, Torres, Agbonlahor, Teves or Saha are for their teams, (Saha and Torres when fit.) Rooney is and Rooney is scoring the Majority of the goals. All these strikers are first on the team sheet unlike Berbatov.
Is it not a goal every 1.7 games he’s scored? 90mins x 2 180 mins.(without Fergie time:)) Thats not a bad return.
The 30 million price tag appears to be the problem with the fans and not his contribution.
But can we not take some of the blame here like make the Guy feel welcome and wanted. Never do we hear a Berbatov chant or song maybe its playing on his mind in games I really don’t know.
@Fred
I was joking about Tevez’s price tag, since fans like to talk about how much Berbatov cost. In a serious arguement, I wouldn’t judge players on their price tag. But that’s just me.
I was ragging on bent and his 17m spurs fee to my friend prior to the season but he seemed to rate Bent and I believe he may have been top English scorer for a few years? I haven’t even checked that though.
hasnt kaka done far worse and he cost more. Kaka may go down in history has the biggest flop
Are number of goals scored the only criteria to judge players?. If yes Berbatov never be amongst some of the players on the list. he has also been vital in our build up play this season.
Take the West ham game. he didn’t score but made 2 delicious passes to valencia that led to goals. Those wont be considered as assists but they were important nevertheless. Such contribution also has to be considered. Being a striker isn’t all about scoring goals
Fans generally don’t like him thats my opinion, it does come down to the price tag. There are more fans at Old Trafford who would slag him off for not “busting a gut” in their deluded eyes than actually getting behind the team. 5 goals in 5 games isn’t good enough. Playing with an injury that needs an operation isn’t good enough either. Being able to unlock defences so simply isn’t good enough especially when his team mates miss as well. Its an uphill battle I’m not prepared to fight anymore. I will say one thing the fact argie tolls name is sung albeit in a neagtive way ahead of Berbatov sickens me.
@Costas
Im just joining the convo, and I can undertsand why Supporters here are frustrated. Torres is a better striker then Berbatov, and Drogba is undisputedly a better stiker than Berbatov, so for a £30 million striker its understandable people want more goals from him. Pointing to his assists is insulting, he was bought to supply GOALS. We could have bought anyone for that kind of money, regardless if it was inflated. The fee for Tevez was inflated too and we said NO, but when it was inflated for Berbatov we said YES. So personally I think the fee is perfectly relevant, why should we ignore the Elephant in the room? For that kind of money 18 goals so far in 2 seasons is piss poor, nobody can deny that. Am I bashing Berby? NO… im being honest and im being a Realist.
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But heres a relevant question for you, how many seasons should we continue with Berbatov if he continues to underwhelm with his goal return? Regardless of his assists, or his flicks, just judging him as an old-school put it in the Onion Bag STRIKER, how many seasons would you personally continue with Berbatov if he consistently failed to reach 20+ goals a season? Thats what I want to know. I’ve supported him without question since he joined and I still support him now… The only difference is im now saying that his third year with us has to be the year he repays our faith in him. 18 goals in 2 seasons is piss poor considering DROGBA has suppassed that already this season alone. Besides, if Berbatov doesn’t start for us even tho he’s fit who’s fault is that? Alec? If we had Drogba and he was fit do you seriously think he’d be on the Bench? If Berbatov is fit but on the bench its because Alec believes we have more chance of winning in a 4-5-1 without him, and if Alec kept to that system we would have beaten Everton away no doubt.
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But Anyway. I can’t see Alec keeping Berby more then a third season if his goal return doesn’t improve. What kind of partner is he to Rooney if Rooney has already scored MORE THEN DOUBLE THE GOALS? Like I said, Berbatov not playing is nobodies fault but his own. When he’s injuried obviously thats different, but when he’s fit and on the bench its his own fault because Alec would not keep a fit Drogba or Torres in the bench he would change his formation to accommodate them. When he changed to accomdate Berby for Liverpool we LOST, Berby didn’t start in a big game again until Everton and WE LOST AGAIN. Fortunately, at home, against might West Ham, he accomodated Berby again and we WON. Im not calling Berby shit at all, he’s a class player, but he is not setting the world alight is he? He’s no Ole, he’s no Cole, he’s no Hughes, he’s no Ruud and he’s certainly no Cantona. We need to be honest as supporters. I support Berbatov, I wouldn’t even call him a flop, but to act like everything is great is bollocks. He’s no Torres and he’s no Drogba, he’s not even Defoe. Considering he’s nearly 30 years old I’d swap him for any of those 3 in a heartbeat. I’d even take Agbonlahor, Bent or Cole. At least with all those players you have Pace, Drive and Determination. Berbatov has many qualities, but he doesn’t have pace, or drive, or determination, he’ll never be the type of player to break his neck trying to get on the end of a cross…. thats his main criticism. But this is all just my humble opinion by the way, LOL
Fred – Has Rooney scored from outside the box yet? Shall we pick apart all of his goals? Course not – we save that kindof treatment for players a bandwagon has been formed against.
The point of this article was to see how our strikers compare to all the other strikers in the league. If you think I would have given a better argument had I included stats for Frank Lampard, for example, who plays in midfield and who has scored 4 goals from open play (6 goals from the penalty spot) then fair do’s. I personally think that is a complete waste of time and doesn’t give us any real weight to compare our players against. But of course, I must have just omitted his stats to make Berbatov look better. Talk about fucking paranoid lol.
@RTNK
Fergie was right in a way when he said that Real and Man City’s spending cause the transfer market to lose it’s value. I haven’t watched Real a lot this season, but Kaka didn’t become a bad player overnight.
I think sometimes it’s better to use transfer fees to judge players for what they have done in the past rather than what they should do in the future. Looking at how immense Kaka was for Milan, then maybe 56 million was the correct price tag. Ronaldo’s achievements at United could be worth 80 million. Likewise, did Berbatov’s time at Spurs warrant a 30 million pound price tag? That’s tough to say. But it’s hard for all 3 of them to live up to these pice tags in their current clubs.
@ AIG. At last somebody who looks at his overall contribution and not just his goals. Well spotted I said the same after the West Ham game. Thats what I meant by my earlier comment ‘Am I watching a totally different player’.
Costas – what berbatov done for spurs warrents him costing 19 million not 30 million and spurs are delluded if they think what he brought for spurs warrents 30 million. yes rooney cost close to that but his potental was endless and it has proved that. kaka no it did not not last year or the year before he in my eyes was worth about 34 million.
@james21
The overall contribution is more important. may not be a goal or an assist but he played a very important part in both those goals.Such things usually get overlooked.Berbatov has this ability to make good incisive passes and spot runs of valencia and Rooney. he can use that ability of his to unlock defenses
The Wolfsburg game is another example. Didnt score a goal but when he came on he made a big difference.to our play and we played much better
or I think kaka cost less about 26 million because of his age what he done for 2 years and you add his age kaka is very lucky he is even wort over 30 million let alone 60 plus million.
damn I repeated his age LOL
@PAUL Parker
I didn’t say he set the world alight either. When Berbatov came to the club, I also thought that he was brought in for goals. But has he played as a main striker? No. Therefore I can’t judge him on his goal return. What matters to me is how I watch him perform and what he contributes to the team. And honestly, I haven’t seen him do too much wrong since December.
It’s up to Ferguson how much time Berbatov has left at United. If I was the manager, I would judge him at the end of each season. Putting timetables on players can often lead us to losing good players. Case in point: Diego Forlan.
Berbatov is to blame for not playing in away games. But it’s not just him. This trend started after we lost Ferdinand and Vidic and Fergie thought it was best to play with 3 CMs. And personally, I thought Everton would have beat us anyway. It wasn’t Berbatov’s fault that our midfield was overrun on the day or that Evans had an off day. Also, just my humble opinion.
@RTNK
Well, our offer for Berbatov was close to 19(22-25 I think?), but then the shenanigans started and we reached the 30million offer.
And I agree about Rooney. Sometimes a fee is about potential as well. The same goes for Rio’s price tag.
@ AIG
And scored an Important goal against Everton. A big game Right Fred?
Costas – I think united should have snapped ferdinand up before leeds took him in 2000, it is the same with hargreaves he was a free in 2005 but payed way over the odds for a player who’s injury record is worser than micheal owen’s. I still will laugh that arsene wenger thought united payed well over the odds for cristiano ronaldo at 12 Million when I thought we robbed or sporting were drunk agree to that price, yet wenger thought paying 22 million for reyes was a good deal.
Fucking sick off people slagging Berbatov.
@ Sanj, good point mate. Agree that he was class in the Chelsea game.
I’ve heard numerous Reds saying he slows our attacking play down, something that just isn’t true. Our attacking play look more menacing with him in the side than without him. If we play Valencia and Nani on the wings and Roo with Berba up front, he is HUGELY important to our attacking. We can’t play with 4 penetrating players whenever we attack, someone needs to feed them.
And that someone is Dimitar Berbatov.
ProperMancsAreRed – you can play with 4 attackers but it depends on the condition and strength of the CM and the defence and who is the GK. A team is like if a skyscraper, how it was built with what kind of materials. It like the twin towers they were built to breathtaking hights with light weight materials. It is the same has a structure of a team? obvious we dont want a twin towers disaster we want the teams structure to be a success. But can they mix together, do they balance so you get a good formula and can they take withstand different types of teams so how players react to different types of teams is a key factor.
The problem with valencia and nani is they are both right sided wide players so it is hard to have both in the same team when they are both right footed.
Costas – hello mate. Coley would have left United if Yorke hadn’t been bought and the rest is history.
It is pointless fighting Berba’s corner. You will never convert them .
Well I have fucking heard it all. Somebody would take brick head Agbonlahor and twitter cunt Bent over the sublime talent of Dimitar. Laughable. The main reason certain fans don’t like him is he is “languid” and “too laid back”.
King Eric – I thought cole prior to yorke’s arrival was sensational at united scoring some great goals, and I found andy cole overall the superior player to alan shearer. For me cole was a great striker to watch scoring so many great goals in so many different way’s, for me to this day cole was a very underated striker and his goals record prove’s he was a fantastic CF.
james21 Said,
“The 30 million price tag appears to be the problem with the fans and not his contribution.
But can we not take some of the blame here like make the Guy feel welcome and wanted. Never do we hear a Berbatov chant or song maybe its playing on his mind in games I really don’t know.”
Amen. Love you Berba. I hate to even think about United without players like Dimitar Berbatov. And he was sooo fucking determined and aggressive against Everton. “Suddenly” no one noticed it.
@King Eric
Hi mate. Cole started turning thing around for himself in the 97-98 season. But it was Yorke’s arrival and their partnership that made him paly even more to his strengths.
@AIG.
with all his passing and assists in the build up to goals he has also scored a goal every 1.7 games.
@ N.R.D T
The Teves song is classic but you’re right we need to get behind Berbatov in the stands.
@ Paulparker
Andy Cole in 8 seasons only scored more than 20 goals 3 times (seasons) He scored in his first two seasons 25 goals in 61 apps So I think to expect Berba to get 20 a season is a little excessive. How many times did Andy Cole assist. Andy Cole was a great goalscorer and a Legend so don’t think i’m slagging him, just using the fact that an out and out striker struggled to get to 20 goals. Granted He cost 7million but that was top notch price when we bought him.
Costas- na he started to do it in the 95/96 season
@RTNK
Nah, not so much. He scored something like 12 goals in 38 games in that season and he received a lot of critisism. Truth be told, he and Cantona never clicked as a partneship. The follwoing season he played few games because Ruddock broke his leg in a Reserves game.
Corea – no offence but the way united won the 2 titles and european cup before berbatov arrived we did not have players like berbatov so your comments are over board. United have always been about pace and power and pressuring defences from the attack, taking teams apart on the cpunter attack. The reason why ppl moan at berbatov because he lacks the dynamic threat like getting the ball driving at defences at pace and pulling players out of postition to create space for others that rooney does. and even valencia at times offers that option because he is dynamic.
@ RTNK – Bullshit he was getting stick off some of our fans for not scoring enough goals at that time. Similar to Berbatov. That was his worst season for United. Andy Cole was/is a legend his goalscoring record was good FOR that time. He started to flourish once Cantona retired.
rooney the new king – i didn’t enjoy 07-08 season that much. 06-07 for me is the best i’ve seen from the team last few years.
and unfortunately you didn’t read my post properly so it’s tough for me to even start defending myself.
i have seen numerous times defenders pulled out of position by Berba. So what ?
NotoriousRedDevil – was it was such a long time ago I cant remember but I thought andy cole was a perfect partner for cantona because cole played on the shoulder and cantona could come deep it is strange why they never clicked and you add beckham and giggs on the flanks they had all the service they could get. but cole was alot younger than berbatov he was 25 at the time so there was room for improvment, the worry for berbatov is he is almost 30 is there much potiental left in the guy because when players get to 30 they do seem to go down hill.
Costas – that ruddock was such a slow player he was like he was eating all the pies not the fans.
@ PaulParker
To expect Berbatov to score 20+ a season is a bit OTT. The great Andy Cole only managed that on 3 ocasions out of 8 and he was an out and out striker. How many assists did Cole complete? In his first 2 seasons Andy Cole scored 25 goals in 61 apps thats a goal every 2.44 games. Berbatov has a goal every 1.7 games and the season isn’t over yet.
@Corea
I just think that maybe the fans could get behind him at games. Like Notorious RD Fans sing more about Kettleneck Carlos than Berbatov.
Loved Andy Cole Love Berbatov.
Corea – the reason why many did not enjoy the 07/08 season including myself because the teams sources of goals dramatically declined, where the 06/07 squad there was more goals coming from most area’s of the team, while the 07/08 squad it was coming from 3 and nearly all the time from ronaldo who was looking to launch a move to the fascest and he become quiet a selfish person.
But the 07/08 side was alot more commanding and powerful and long term a more complete squad while the 06/07 squad was a patched up squad to try and get through the season, add the fact the 07/08 squad had alot more left in the tank with a phew more players who could win the ball, which we overpowered the likes of chelsea arsenal and liverpool destroying them, while the 06/07 side was on the verge of collapse in the last phew months of the season.
@RTNK
Like Notorious said, Cole came into his own after Cantona left. The team played faster and it suited him more. Cantona’s best partner was Hughes and after that it was probably Solskjaer.
Ruddock, lol. What a murderer that was. A throwback to the old age Uruguyan defenders. I think they found his succesor in Kyrgiakos.
Costas – rudduck defiantly eat all the pies maybe that is why he moved clubs alot he could not find enough pies. Can you imagine what the best strikers would do to ruddock in todays game he would have to retire after 30 minutes.
What the actual fuck? Someone claimed he’s a dissapointment for not giving a return of 20 goals a season. Have you ever thought that part of the reason Rooney is scoring so many goals this season, is not just down to his improvement/position, it’s also due to Berbatov now being the striker to come deep and feed through balls to the wingers who then provide Rooney with a goal scoring opportunity.
Did someone claim he’s not performing in the big games?
Liverpool away last season, an assist for Tevez. Chelsea at home last season an assist for Vidic and a goal. His goal against Everton this season was a good goal and he was the best player on the pitch until being substituted so I don’t know what you’re on about.
Erm, Brick head Agbonlahor as you call him managed to fuck us over well enough didn’t he? He’s scored more goals then Berby this season and he scored more goals then Berby last season. Even when Berbatov started the majority of games in his last season at Tottenham and scored his highest Premiership total ever, he only scored 15 Goals while Agbonlahor scored 11 in the same season. Mind you, the “brick head” was only 20 years old at the time and he wasn’t Villas first choice striker. I guess Ashley Young is a shit player too? How about Torres? Over-rated? Saying players are shit because they don’t play for us is beyond childish.
Seriously, some of you need to be less emotional (female) and more rational (male) when it comes to evaluating players. Eitherway, the bottom line, in the cold light of day, is that Berbatov despite his talent has completely underwelmed since his arrival, and the fact that the man is 30 years old doesn’t make the future any brighter for him. Christ, im the first to say he is an amazing player, but even his most ardent fan must agree he has underperformed since he’s arrived. Am I wrong? Has he actually been performing amazingly since he arrived? Have I missed something? Is he really a 23 year old player completely new to the Premiership? Like FUCK he is, he has no excuses, he’s simply under performing, that doesn’t make him shit, it makes him an under performing player. What the fuck is so hard to understand??? Lol, Jesus, im all for supporting my team but under performing is under performing mate. Its as simple as that, for me anyway.
@chrispiano
Since we are working on the principle of backward induction, we must not forget to give credit to whoever it was who passed the ball to Berbatov, who then passed it on to one of the wingers, who then passed it on to Rooney to score. Also the implied assumption is that, of course, there is no value add at any part of this value chain besides the pass given by Berbatov.
OFFICIAL: Chelsea Goalkeeper Petr Cech Out For A Month
Calf muscle tear rules keeper out
By Alex Stamp
Feb 25, 2010 7:15:00 PM
Chelsea have confirmed that goalkeeper Petr Cech will be out for a month after suffering a torn calf muscle.
The Stamford Bridge club have revealed that following scans on the injury, the goalkeeper will be out for “three to four weeks”.
Cech went down clutching his leg midway through the second half of Chelsea’s Champions League second round clash with Inter Milan on Wednesday night and had to leave the pitch on a stretcher.
Boss Carlo Ancelotti revealed after the match that Cech had suffered a torn calf muscle, but admitted he hoped Cech would be back for the second leg.
However following further scans Cech will miss the second leg, as well as Chelsea’s clash with Manchester City on Saturday.
Sweet..
Mate its hilarious, if Berbatov was performing you wouldn’t need to refer me to games last season LOL Jesus take a long look at ROONEY now take a long look at DROGBA ok these two are 100% undeniable 100% quality strikers. If we forget all the pretty stuff and concentrate on Putting the ball in the back of the net, those two are the BUSINESS. You don’t need to refer to last season, or “that game in November” to prove the point. They do it week in week out. Even when they have a quiert game, they coem back and score 2, you can bet money on it, they are the real deal. Berbatov? Listen, saying he’s QUALITY and saying he’s been Quality FOR US are two completely different statements. Berbatov has not been quality for us, point blank fucking period. That doesn’t make him a shit player, it just means he’s not doing the business for us.
Be honest. If Berbatov was a Liverpool player you lot would all slate him day in and day out… Rafa and his bollocks signings right? But because he’s a United player you lot defend him to the hilt and beyond reason. I am United through and through, but im no fucking mug. 18 goals in 2 seasons is complete TWAT ….but for the hundreth time Berbatov is an amazing player, but there are several amazing players in the League, so whats the big deal? All im concerned about is – IS HE AN AMAZING PLAYER FOR US – and if any of you on here believe Berbatov has been amazing since he joined us for 30 million pounds your deluding yourself. Is he class? Yes. Has he been class for us? NO.
Jesus Christ – If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what fellas?
Yes, of course we were awesome since 07-08 season. Berba wasn’t.
He has been useless but it keeps me wondering why some fools on the blog love the player. Yes, maybe i was a women in my past life. But i can’t hide my emotions because i AM emotional.
@ Arijc
Well you only need to look at the West ham game for an example, ok yes someone passes it to him but he then puts in good through balls that without them there was no opportunity created. He creates space very well.
Oh and if you haven’t noticed we’ve scored more goals this season than last season already, what are you expecting, Berbatov and Rooney to get 25 each and Owen to get 12? Thats never going to happen it’s one or the other, you play Rooney deep which he is worse at than Berbatov because he is worse than Rooney at through balls. Then you have Berbatov as the 6yard box man which he’s marginally worse than Rooney at, but he doesn’t get the service when he does this.
@Paul Parker
DROGBA is Chelsea’s MAIN striker and so is Torres etc. Notice how their other strikers score marginally less goals. Berbatov is a second striker, compare him to other second strikers and then you get see how much better he is than the others.
Anelka – 8, Arshavin – 7, Crouch – 5, Adebayor – 9, Bellamy – 6, Kuyt – 9 (But was main striker for majority of time with Torres out), Carew – 4.
Oh and Agbonlahor is shit, if you think otherwise you’re joking with yourself. He is pace and nothing else, he is good for Villa because they have good wingers who provide him with service to just run on to, that’s his only strength, he’s average with his feet and an alright header of the ball. He’s nothing special and he should be nowhere near the England squad, Zamora is far better but he’s still not England standard.
You know what? The Berbatov topic is a black hole, and I’ve been duped into giving it oxygen, so I’ll stop. Besides, less is more, so perhaps I need to reduce what im saying into a single comprehendible paragrapgh. Here goes:
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Berbatov is an AMAZING player, but im only concerned with one question – IS HE AN AMAZING PLAYER FOR US – the answer so far has to be no. To suggest he has played amazing for us is delusion. Is he class? Yes. Has he been class for us? NO.
@ corea
Lol.
Damn I’ve been sussed too.
@ Paul Parker – Berbatov hasn’t lived up to the heights we expected that is true. 2 things I’m annoyed about in your post one he’s 29 not 30. He’s not 30 for another year, a lot of people have been calling him 30 for 2 years now. 18 goals in 2 years has been piss poor I agree but
A) Thats only league goals
&
B) Season is over yet.
If he goes and scores 8 goals thats 17 in total. I can’t recall any team in the history of a 20 team premier league thats has 2 strikers scoring 20+league goals in a season.
Finally after 30 you’re past it? I suggest we release Scholes, Giggs, VDS, Owen and Neville at the end of the season then! Rio and Wes Brown can fuck off too as well then.
Seriously though pace is clearly not one of Berba strong points and much like Teddy he’ll go on for a lot longer than people think. We won the league last season with him in the team and when he wasn’t he never moaned about it like Argie troll and even Anderson.
This year Rooney has 23 and Berbatov has 9 comapare that with our rivals chelski they have drogba on 19 and anelka who has played more minutes and as far as I’m aware not playing with an injury who really has a piss poor record of 8. I
Its easily done, I’m guilty of it but its not always right to compare seasons side by side. I am shocked that people liked the 06/07 team more than 07/08 but thats their opinion. Fact is 07/08 was one of the best teams in history and 06/07 wasn’t.
ChrisPiano –
Bobby Zamora better then Agbonlahor are you soft in the head?
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But back to the point you made – lets look at Kuyt.
Kuyt performs better for Liverpool then Berbatov does for United. Kuyt is a SHIIIIIIIT player in my eyes but I can’t deny he consistently gets important goals in the League AND Europe. In the two seasons since Berbatov has been with United, Kuyt has scored more goals in the League and in Europe during the same time. Berbatov is a much better player then Kuyt but at the end of the day Kuyt is a better player for Liverpool then Berbatov has been for United. Whats the point in being a better player if you don’t get the results on the pitch. Look at ROBINHO. He is undeniably talented but he was shit was Manchester City. Ireland was a better player for City then Robinho. Are we saying Ireland is a better player then Robinho? Fuck No. But at the end of the day, I’d rather have Ireland in my team then Robinho. JUST LIKE I’D RATHER HAVE KIKO OR WELBECK IN MY TEAM THAN BERBATOV. It really doesn’t matter how “good” a player is if they aren’t producing the goods on the field. Simple as that. Berbatov is a very good player, great touch and what have you, but for the money we paid he hasn’t played well enough for us – no where near well enough. Thats my Opinion, and if he under performs again next season for a 3rd year we should cash in and buy a REAL striker before Berbatov turns 32 and nobody wants him except West Ham. £30 million was a waste of money.
@chrispiano
For the record, against West Ham game, he did pass the ball to Valencia, but the space for Rooney was created by the first touch cross by Valencia.
I agree that he played well against West Ham and he has been playing better than usual in the last few games, but, speaking objectively, can you seriously say think of any games in the past 18 months that he has influenced for United decisively. His absence from the playing eleven in crucial games is a pointer towards what the manager thinks. Remember what Sir Alex said recently, it was the level of performance put in by Fletcher, Scholes and Carrick that was making it difficult for him to include Berbatov. One could blame it on the system or lack of quality midfield, but the truth is that it points to the fact that he is dispensable.
Don’t get me wrong, I also think that he is a class player, but until he puts in consistent performances that make him indispensable to the team, he will remain a topic of discussion. Frankly, at this moment, I don’t understand the hype created over Berbatov by some of the participants on this blog. I would gladly do a swap deal in the summer involving Modric and Berbatov.
If he’s 29 or 30 its the same difference to me, he’s too old to justify paying 30 Million Pounds, thats my point. Also, he shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breathe as Teddy. Sheringham was an out and out striker wherever he went, he’s the type of player we need right now. Im not expecting our two main strikers to score 20+ each, the only reason Rooney is scoring so prolifically is because Berbatov has not been trusted to play along side him in most of our games. Rooney has taken the mantle and he’s doing us proud, hence his impressive Goal tally. I read your post you pretty much agree with what im saying. I agree the season isn’t over and I’ll support Berbatov as long as he’s here but I won’t play silly buggers. He is under performing and he has been under performing since he joined. Piss Poor performace from a quality player. Its even more disappointing when you remember how much we paid. Shocking, but Alec is allowed a shocker every now and again, he’s otherwise flawless with his acquisitions. But like I said you pretty much agree that his goal return (considering he is a striker) is piss poor so far.
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All I know is Alec won’t let Berby anywhere near the first team when it matters in big games, yet everybody on this blog knows full well that if we had a second striker who was ON FIRE we wouldn’t be playing 4-5-1 with a lone striker we’d be playing a different formation to accomodate both strikers. Thats what it boils down to for me. David Villa would not be sitting on our bench. Fabiano would not be sitting on our bench. Aguero would not be sitting on our bench. But we spent 30 million on Berbatov and he’s sitting on our bench. But is he a shit player??? NO !!! However is he under performing for us ??? YES he bloody well is and denying it is deeply and unnecessarily delusional.
My neighbour is a Spurs season ticket holder, no i’m not a southerner i’m a North West immigrant. I asked him about Modric on returning from the Utd Spurs game last season and his words were ‘Good when he turns up but not consistant’. At least theres another topic if he comes to Utd. I like Berbatov I don’t think its hype but more sticking your 2 peneth in.
@ ARIJC –
After reading you calm, almost tranquil post I can see why I probably don’t always get my point across lol. But I agree, yes he’s class but what the fuck is the fanatical devotion about? Considering his ability, he has been undeniably Disappointing since he joined us, and like we’ve both been saying, great players force themselves into the managers thinking. If this season Alec has preferred to pack his midfield with Carrick, Scholes and Fletch instead of having Berbatov upfront it really doesn’t say much for Berbatovs impact on our sqaud. Not too sure about Moderic tho, I’ve been told he’s quality but haven’t really seen it for myself yet, but I def agree that Berby is indeed dispensable. Alec proves he’s dispensable every time he omits him from the team. I would happily swap Berbatov for Defoe, HAPPILY. At least with Defoe you have a player with pace and determination. Berbatov just doesn’t work hard enough and United have always been a hard working team, whether its working hard running at players, working hard breaking up opposition play or working hard covering ground box to box. Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher, Nani, Rooney, EVRA, Park…. all our players work harder then Berbatov. Yes he is a quality player, but after 2 seasons of looking at him I’d happily cash in on him and buy a real, prolific, proven striker with pace, grit, strength and determination. If he was sold in the summer I wouldn’t be surprised, how many more seasons will we give him to do more then he’s doing now? Because even his most ardent fans will agree he isn’t doing enough for us now.
@PAUL Parker
About the devotion thing, because I read it elsewhere too. There is no such thing as a Berbatov fan club in here or anything like that. Lets say that he is disappointing. What’s the right thing to do? Get behind him or dismiss him as a flop? I understand Berbatov getting critisized after the Liverpool game at Anfield. But we have been debating about him on and on in the last few days after two games where he was one of our best performers. If some people will defend him no matter what, it’s because other people will critisize him no matter what.
Unfortunately, it’s a problem United fans tend to have from time to time. If someone comes to the club with a big fee on his back, he must perform brilliantly from the off, otherwise he is a waste of money. Cole, Veron, Forlan, Sheringham, Stam, the list goes on. Some of them proved their worth inside a year, while others took 2-3 seasons to get going.
The reason people hype up Berbatov is because from day one there are a group of fans who didn’t want him to succeed due to that £30 million price tag which to be fair is David Gills and managements fault for not getting the deal done sooner. People were getting on his back with exactly the same stuff that been repeatedly posted for 18 months back in October 08! Some people want him gone because they go into work and don’t have the balls to stand up for him. He isn’t a waste of money, the price tag was an indulgence we were allowed due to our outstanding form for the previous 2 years. He was exactly type of front man we needed except we never adjusted the system. 07/08 which many fans on here are critiques of, the major consensus to fans I spoke to at games was we needed someone to hold up the ball.That Rooney and troll were to similar for certain games.
Ronaldo was supposed to stay on the wing and Berbatov/Rooney/Argie Troll were supposed to rotate the other 2 front position. That still didn’t happen Ronaldo went up front, Rooney went on the left wing and troll and Berbatov played just behind. Now the system is 4-5-1 because our centre midfield has no meat and no backbone. Fletcher is the only one who fills that criteria. Once we have a midfield that doesn’t wither and die in games and if Berbatov doesn’t do it we have a reason to complain. At the moment goalscoring isn’t an issue so lets just leave it the way it is. If Rooney does get injured like people continually go on about then Berbatov and Owen will step up.
If you had Defoe in your team then United still wouldn’t play 4-4-2 or Rooney would move back to his old role of second striker and his goals would go down. Defoe is a worse version of what Rooney has developed into.
Let’s play football manager and pretend we have Villa and Rooney and the rest of our squad for the big games. Let’s presume Rooney and Villa’s form are similar then if Villa starts, Rooney would still be a winger and we would play 4-5-1. Why? It’s not because Berbatov is not good enough it’s because our defence has been all over the place this season and the midfield in a 4-4-2 weren’t doing a good enough job of protecting them because Carrick’s performances have been so polarised and Scholes can’t dictate a 4-4-2 like he used to. It’s not because our striking options are so poor like you seem to think, but then again you rate Agbonlahor so what do you expect. To clarify we play 4-5-1 because Rooney has been incredible and the centre mids and defence have been poor so they need back-up. OK?
Thats the thing Costas, I didn’t start the Berbatov debate today, I never have. If anything the majority I’ve written about him on here has been in his defence. But its all semantics really, because Berbatov isn’t a shit player per se, he’s just shit for us. Also, theres a subtle difference between supporting a player and re-writting history. Berbatov has been shit for us thus far – and with that as a starting point I’ll support him to the hilt and beyond to infinity. Yes he’s been shit so far but once the whistle blows I support him and hope he turns it around. I really hoped he would push his way into our European team but thats not gonna happen is it? He’ll never start against Milan. Thats because he’s a quality player playing shit for us. Thats my opinion, and I guess its Alec’s opinion too. But I do support him, as im sure Alec does, but as a supporter I just dont go in for the “we are the world” approach to supporting my club, I call them how I see them, if I think a players playing shit he’s playing shit. I don’t sugar coat it. Berbatov has been a piss poor signing, but I sincerely hope he turns it around because he is a great player. Theres no contradiction there.
NotoriousRedDevil’s got it.
Oh and Zamora is better than Agbonlahor because he has a fucking brain and can actually link up well with other players whereas Agbonlahor waits for a through ball that he can just run on to with his pace. Zamora can also take free kicks and score them. Agbonlahor is a shit player that does well because of the rest of his team.
PAUL Parker
Didn’t say you started it mate. Scott started it!
Anyway, of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think you should hold back. But those who defend him shouldn’t be critisized for that either. Because for them(and for me obviously) he hasn’t been shit for us in the last 2 years. The only thing that I would like people to do, is to detach him from his transfer fee. Because that’s the easy thing to do, but it doesn’t tell the whole story.
Notorious and Chruspiano make valid points about the whole 4-5-1 ordeal. Lets not forget that in the past players like Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer, Saha and Tevez have had to make way in order for us to play 4-5-1. We lost Rio and Vidic and apart from Fletcher, no other midfielfer will stick his foot in there. So we had to sacrifice one attacker in order for the team to get hold of the midfield in tough games. One other solution would have been to play Rooney on the left, but in the scoring form he is, that would have been a waste. So naturally, Berbatov will have to make way.
Paul Parker
I very much agree with your take on class in general and class for us. It is a novel approach which sums this situation up.
Recently I have looked beyond the player himself to wonder if a player in the past has ever caused such fan debate and indeed whether this is healthy. I must confess Berabtov leaving would result in far fewer arguments!
But debates aside I am very comfortable that Berbatov is not selected for major matches by Ferguson. Ferguson understands Berbatovs worth despite the transfer.
It is just a pity that the money wasn’t invested elsewhere at a time when a 30m investment could have been the catalyst for more success.
Brett1985? hmm what more success could Berbatov contributed to last year, the FA cup in which we played youngsters in the semi finals, or just the Champions league final a game in which I blame mainly on Fletchers absence and some poor performances all round…
LOL, at a team like United I would rate Agbonlahor more then Berbatov so your right. He has pace, a good right AND left foot and a good head. Plus he’s 7 years younger, he can only get better. Do you think Martin would be stupid enough to swap Berby for Gabby? Even Bent, I can’t even see Bruce swapping Bent for Berby. Over the last two years Bent would have been a better striker. He’s scored against the Big Four waaaaaaaaaaay more often then Berbatov over the last two seasons, and thats while playing in a underperforming team. But I guess Bent is shit too right? Berbatov was a luxury for us when we signed him, like somebody said he was an indulgence. I’d agree with that, because right now we need a hard working second striker. The reality right now is that the chips are down. We need players to stand up. I’ve already said I think Kuyt is a shit player, but by God, he is an amazing player for Liverpool, scoring important goals in the League and in Europe (More Goals then Berby I might add) He’s the “type” of second striker we need right now, the type clearing shots off the line. How many times have you seen Drogba make a decisive block helping Chelsea to another Clean sheet, only to run the length of the pitch to score a beauty. Thats the type of thing Rooney does, THATS THE ENGLISH GAME, so for his prospective partner and with our current frailties, we need, dare I say it, a TEVEZ type striker who works hard and actively threatens opposition. Berbatov doesn’t do enough to keep out Carrick, Scholes or Fletcher, but maybe If Berby had a higher work rate he would start more. For me its simple. Yes he’s a quality player, but no he hasn’t been quality for us thus far. I hope he turns it around, but till he does im not gonna sugar coat my aprasial, and im certainly not gonna dismiss a player as shit just because he doesn’t play for us. LEVY MUST BE LAUGHING HIS HEAD OFF.
chrispiano Said,
February 25th, 2010 @23:07
NotoriousRedDevil’s got it.
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I’ll be honest with you Chrispiano, I don’t think he has. I dont see why fans would have hated Berabtov at the start- he’s never done anything to us. Plus even if that was the case the likes of Cantona who came from Leeds did the business on the pitch. If Berbatov did similar to why would people turn round and maintain a negative assessment of him. I think it is far more likely that people honestly judge that he hasn’t met the standards required.
Fred Said,February 25th, 2010 @18:17
Paul Parker, you normally talk some shite but you’re spot on this time.
My tongue in cheek comment about these stats proving that Tevez is better than Berba were meant to illustrate the dubious nature of stats sometimes.
Also, why has Scott ranked Berba higher than Darren Bent when they have the same minutes-to-goals ratio but Bent has scored 6 more goals than Berba? Because Berba has played less minutes he will say and that’s more impressive than six more goals (whilst playing for a vastly inferior team no less!)
Noteworthy that Bent scored against Chelsea (home and away) Arsenal and Liverpool. A feat Berbatov and his cult members can only dream about! He also scored against United.
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OI !!!! I just saw this LOL
You’re right Martin and Brucey would be stupid to swap Bent/Agbonlahor for Berbatov because he wouldn’t fit into their style of play. Like I said Agbonlahor works for Villa because of his pace and height only, other than that he’s distinctly average but the wingers do the work in that squad. Oh and Bent? Again he’s a distinctly average striker but he’s the right kind an average team needs someone with moderate pace decent height who excels at nothing but is ok at everything.
Paul Parker – No I disagree mate. I neither rate Young or Agbonlahor. He is just raw pace and a stocky cunt. The pair will be burned out again come month end. Strange actually cos only a fortnight ago you were fighting Berba’s corner, whats changed? Sorry pal but Agbonlahor is not in the same league as Berbatov.
brett1985 Said,February 25th, 2010 @23:17
Paul Parker
I very much agree with your take on class in general and class for us. It is a novel approach which sums this situation up.
Recently I have looked beyond the player himself to wonder if a player in the past has ever caused such fan debate and indeed whether this is healthy. I must confess Berabtov leaving would result in far fewer arguments!
But debates aside I am very comfortable that Berbatov is not selected for major matches by Ferguson. Ferguson understands Berbatovs worth despite the transfer.
It is just a pity that the money wasn’t invested elsewhere at a time when a 30m investment could have been the catalyst for more success.
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Very well put mate, and I agree, I much prefer seeing Berby on the bench in big games. Also agree that the 30 million fee could have been used a little wiser. The type of player that kind of money makes available ALLLL shit on Berbatov. David Villa? Aguero? even young Pato. But for me its not even about buying an expensive new striker, I’d much rather see KIKO sitting on the bench trying to break into the first team. We’ll see how well Welbeck does when he returns next season. So its not about a new snazzy striker, and its not about wasting 30 million, for me, its just the fact that Berbatov isn’t the type of player we need right now. If he was he would be starting more games, and its a shame because he’s a great player and I was excited when we signed him. But the club comes first, and Berby hasn’t been pulling his weight…. thus far. But believe me, IF he turns it around I will be the first to congratualte him and say about bloody time !!!
@Chrispiano
Yeah, Notorious got it.
Sorry just read the rest of your post. Childish now am I? Of course I rate the ladyboy when he is fit but as I said no I don’t rate those two cunts. Young has one good game every 6, always fucking diving and is far too lightweight. Put either of that pair in a United shirt and you would see that they are NO where near United quality. Just my opinion.
First off Berbatov is only turned 29 not yet 30. His total career goals are 139 in just over 300 games and 48 in 76 for Bulgaria. Not to mention dozens of assists. Yeah real shabby that innit.
I’ll tell you guys one thing though. Berbatov is going to get picked for some big matches towards this end of this season probably starting with the League Cup on Sunday and then at home to Milan. I actually have a gut feeling he could play well and score and for the sake of his united career, he damn well must!
@King Eric
I have a feeling that a year from now we will have the same arguement in here.
Chrispiano – Spot on about the brick head Agbonlahor. Completely over rated like pretty much Villa in general. The fuckers could not even attack United at their home ground against ten men. Anyway that is besides the point. I think Paul Parker has lost a tad of credibility coming out with things like he is better than Berba.
Costas Said,February 25th, 2010 @23:11
PAUL Parker
Didn’t say you started it mate. Scott started it!
Anyway, of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think you should hold back. But those who defend him shouldn’t be critisized for that either. Because for them(and for me obviously) he hasn’t been shit for us in the last 2 years.
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I know mate im playing about.
No he hasn’t been shit, but he hasn’t been GREAT either has he?
Thats what it boils down to. HIS talent, HIS fee, and the expectations of OUR CLUB means that he has been a disappointing signing. We’ve only seen the briefest of glimpses of his Tottenham best and thats what the problem is. But for the record, NOBODY was more excited when he signed than I was, and NOBODY wills him on more during a game when I do. The turning point for me, I guess, was the Everton game, because it sums up why he hasn’t been great for us thus far. He actually had a decent game, but his low work rate meant we were ALWAYS missing the extra man in we had in a 4-5-1 midfield. Considering we keep him on the bench for big games, it was a mistake to include him against Everton. And thats what frustrates me, here we have a quality player, worth 30 million and his best position in big games is THE BENCH. Unfortunately we can’t seperate him from his fee. It is what it is. But like I said, I really do support him and I hope he starts to play GREAT for us instead of just average. We’ll see how the season turns out, but at the moment I do feel him leaving would be best for both parties. He’ll get first team football and we’ll get some of that cash back. But seriously, I’ve been defending him for two seasons I used to sound just like you guys LOL, but that Everton game has changed things. Even with a weak midfield and defence, two quality strikers could still do the business, so if Berbys best position in big games is the BENCH then we should sell him and buy a player good enough to START with Rooney. I’ll give him until the end of the 3rd season, but come on, if he’s still having a minimum inpact on our team we should get rid. Its sad but thats Life mate.
@brett1985
I actually would prefer it if Michael Owen started the League Cup final alongside Wayne. He has played a bigger part in this season’s campaign than Berbatov and I feel he deserves it.
Costas – Well hopefully not as by then he will have done it in the “big games”! Mark my words mate some people will be eating humble pie. Like brett says I think he will make a difference in this seasons run in. NEVER have fans been split this much over a player. I know alot on here have their own views and know their football but there are a hell of a lot who just churn out cliches from the tabloids. For example how many times do we hear “languid style” or “he doesn’t run enough”?
@Paul Parker
I’m glad you decided to ignore the points that both me and NotoriousRedDevil made about the 4-5-1 and instead chose to keep on saying the same thing.
‘Berbatov cost too much and hasn’t performed’
‘We should have bought Villa’
‘Berbatov isn’t as good as Drogba’
and ofcourse you’re ridiculous comments on Agbonlahor, but the less said about that the better.
and “low work rate” For fuck sake since when has he been a grafter? People knew danm well that isn’t what he is. Anyway I think if you check the stats he puts in as much as most players in terms of distance run.
Finally (for now) in a fair few of the games at OT Berbatov has been the player to break the ten men defences down.
Yes Zamora is better than brick head. Better feet, great in the air and a better finisher.
@Paul Parker
Thanks. Its best to remain calm in a discussion about Berbatov.
@brett1985
I hope so too that he finally proves his detractors, like myself, wrong.
@Chrispiano
I think that the discussion on a weak midfield and defense causing us to play 5 in midfield is not accurate.
We have been playing the 4-5-1 (changing to 4-3-3 in the attacking half) formation with regularity in European games and against the better sides in the premier league over the past couple of years at least. I think the loss to Milan in the CL a few years back and the influence of Queiroz prompted that change. Most top teams across Europe don’t play 4-4-2 any longer but prefer 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 or the diamond formation. With the growing dependence on pace, in my opinion, the 4-4-2 system is becoming outdated. And I think the points raised by Paul Parker were more than sufficient to make the point.
‘Even with a weak midfield and defence, two quality strikers could still do the business’
Fucking hell.
Ok, here we go. Against Everton you said it yourself, Berbatov played well, in fact he was the best player in a United shirt that day and scored a goal as well. On that day I agree the midfield and defence were poor, and lets presume that two ‘quality’ strikers can win any game. We didn’t have two quality strikers that game, wait am I agreeing with you? No. Rooney played absolutely fucking awfully in that game, and don’t get me wrong i’m a big fan of his but he played awfully that day and the few chances he did get were created by Berbatov. So yes, perhaps two quality strikers could have got the job done, we only had one.
I’m glad that you’d rather see Macheda on the bench than buy gods-gift that is David Villa, over Berbatov. Theres a reason Berbatov has been there ahead of Macheda these last 2 years and it’s not pity as you may like to think.
@King Eric
I actually had a chance to watch MUTV back in 02-03 and Veron divided fans in a similar manner. And I am sure that if ROM existed back in the mid to late 90s we would have the same discussions about Cole and Sheringham. I also hope that he plays a crucial role in the final run in.
@Paul Parker
My beef about using the 30 million tag all the time, is that even Man United never considered that he was worth as much. Due to a lot of mistakes over the summer of 08 we were backed into a corner by Levy. Price tags are more about the clubs than they are about the players themselves. Someone mentioned Kaka earlier. He hasn’t played like 56 million pounds. It’s the way football works nowdays.
I didn’t know your opinion changed after the Everton game. In my opinion, there were bigger problems out there than Berbatov. Carrick and Fletcher having an off day, Brown and Evans getting outmuscled by Saha and Rooney having a bad game(which he is entitled to have). Last season, we played plenty of big games with Berbatov in the side. At the Wastelands, both games against Chelsea as well as the loss at the Emirates. We didn’t perform bad on either game. This season, and with Rio-Vidic absent, Ferguson doesn’t have the same confidence to play 4-4-2.
@ Arijc, we played 4-5-1 last season as well but that was just to accommodate Ronaldo really, we would have been slaughtered in a 4-4-2 formation if Ronaldo was on the wing because he did whatever the fuck he wanted, again i’m still a fan of his. Fletcher said it himself that he doesn’t miss Ronaldo’s lack of tracking back.
Oh and Arijc we tended to play 4-5-1 mainly in away European games, at home we used to stick to 4-4-2 and there’s no reason for us not to do it now except for the midfield has been so unpredictable and the defensive crisis. In the games we did play 4-5-1 last season in Europe, who was at the spearhead in Porto away, Inter away, it was Berbatov, the other games he was injured except for Barcelona.
King Eric Said,February 25th, 2010 @23:36
Paul Parker – No I disagree mate. I neither rate Young or Agbonlahor. He is just raw pace and a stocky cunt. The pair will be burned out again come month end. Strange actually cos only a fortnight ago you were fighting Berba’s corner, whats changed? Sorry pal but Agbonlahor is not in the same league as Berbatov.
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funnily enough, I’ve just answered whats changed to Costas.
The Everton game changed everything.
We went to Liverpool and tried to incorporate Berbatov into a 4-4-2 and we were SPANKED 2-0. Horrible Horrible result, and Alec didn’t RISK playing Berbatov in big games AGAIN until we went to Everton, and look what happened playing 4-4-2 with Berbatov. Im not blaming the result on him. Think about it, its perfectly possible for him to play well in a match, but still cost us the match because his mere inclusion was at the expense of a 5th midfielder. If Berbatov had a higher work rate we wouldn’t miss the 5th midfielder as much. I’ve already said it and I HATE to say it again, but a second striker like Kuyt would be more beneficial to us right now than pretty boy Berby. Kuyt runs box to box, clears shots off the line and scores important goals in the League and Europe. He’s a shit player but he’s great for Liverpool. Berbatov does none of those things, so he’s the opposite, he’s a great player but he’s shit for United. I know which TYPE of player I’d rather have right now. I’ve avoided the Tevez debate so far, but I finally see where people are coming from. Tevez’s work rate is EXACTLY what we need from a second striker. But I digress, its getting late. See my point to Costas about why my position has changed.
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And your entitled to think Gabby and Young are shit players, its your opinion. Its a strange one, but its your opinion none the less. Altho with Gabby its funny you say “he’s just fast and tall” like thats a bad thing, lol. so should he be short and slow instead? Bizarre. But yes, I think Gabby would be a better player for us then Berby is right now. Absolutely. There is a difference between who is a better player and who would be a better United player. Robinho is waaaaaaaay better than Ireland, but for City Ireland is head and shoulders a better player. So considering how we play, WHO do you thnk would have the pace and strength and height to get on the end of Valencia, Park and Nani’s crosses? Gabby would score more goals for us just because of the way we play, we play with PACE, how many goals does Rooney RUN ON TO? and thats another reason why Berby just doesnt click, the man has no pace and he can’t shrug off defenders using strength, he always drops to his knees with his arms out like he’s been shot. But I digress. Think what you want about Gabby, its neither here nor there, just make sure you cross your fingers and hope he doesn’t score against us AGAIN on Sunday.
Paul – Did you pay the fee out your own pocket? You seem awfully obsessed by it.
Paul son you are just making things up now mate. Please enlighten me as to where I have said he is “just tall and fast”. I never said such a thing. Anyway why don’t we all meet up on the next topic, we have exhausted this one. It is a laugh though. I have NEVER seen so much arguing and disagreement on ROM as the last two days . Amusing stuff. Can you believe we are all fully grown men and we just obsess over the beautiful game. When you really think about it is rather funny. Everyone has their own views but everyone thinks their view is right!!
Gentlemen, its been fun. Lets agree to disagree and just hope CITY WIN ON SATURDAY, because a draw isn’t enough we need all the help we can get after our pitiful display against Everton.
For the record, I highly rate Berbatov as a player, and I hope he scores the Opener and the Winner on Sunday…. thats of course if Alec has enough faith to Start him in the first place LOL would anybody seriously be surprised if he’s on the bench? Has he done enough to start? Should we risk NOT going out with our strongest team just to include Berbatov? Even his most ardent supporters must admit our strongest team at the moment is a 4-5-1 that doesn’t include him. Aaaah, this could go on and on. But like I said, if he starts, and if he scores the winner, NOBODY will be happier then me. I’d love to see him start for Milan at OT and score the winner too…. im just glad Alec is a realist and not a romantic like Keegan. Goodnight Gentlemen.
Of course he can hold defenders off. He never gives the ball away and is very hard to disposess.
This site should have been alive when Diego Forlan wasn’t scoring goals. It would have put the Berbatov convos to shame.
Anyway, I also give up for tonight. Like Paul Parker says, hopefully Shity will do one thing right this week. A draw will be enough.
Costas – It certainly would mate as would Veron. Yeah I agree with you a draw WILL be enough. I honestly think the Chav’s will start to unravel now. Some testing injuries to deal with now. Fat Frank and Ballack looked absolutely exhausted last night.
Talking of Chelsea there was an interesting stat in Red Issue this month. Chelsea have only drawn Premier league teams in 53 % of FA cup ties in the last 4 or 5 years. They have had an easier round than any of the top 4. Mind you thats no excuse for the Leeds result.
Yeah 4-5-1 is our strongest formation at the moment until our centre defence and midfield sort it out. Goodnight.
chrispiano Said,February 25th, 2010 @23:54
@Paul Parker
I’m glad you decided to ignore the points that both me and NotoriousRedDevil made about the 4-5-1 and instead chose to keep on saying the same thing.
‘Berbatov cost too much and hasn’t performed’
‘We should have bought Villa’
‘Berbatov isn’t as good as Drogba’
and ofcourse you’re ridiculous comments on Agbonlahor, but the less said about that the better.
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Just saw this, fuck off mate, pat pat on the head for making a good point about 4-5-1 but I don’t actually read every word everybody on here types. So don’t try and take the debate wherever the fuck your trying to take it. I’ve been banging on about why we’ve needed to play 4-5-1 for weeks and weeks. I’ve even made the same pont on this very page. Anybody on here that remembers anything I said can tell you that. Theres people on here today that said I was wrong about 4-5-1 but agree with you when you said the same thing. But just to be officlal, I’ve previously said many times that our defence is the reason Berbatov shouldn’t have started against Everton and we should have gone with 4-5-1 like we did against Milan, Chelsea and Arsenal. We can’t afford to accommodate him due to our frailties. But never once have I said we “should have bought Villa” I mentioned a list of players we could have bought including him. But this is pointless. You rarely if EVER see me pick up on something somebody else says and make it a point to prove them wrong out of the blue. I just make my points and respond to anybody responding to me. So whatever you think, good for you pal, I just suggest you don’t take my opinion so seriously to the point you’ll say the bollocks you just said above. And if im ignoring your points its because im not actually interested mate, and so you know, I have no intentions of going back over whatever you previously wrote now. Have a good night mate.
King Eric Said,February 26th, 2010 @0:14
Paul son you are just making things up now mate. Please enlighten me as to where I have said he is “just tall and fast”. I never said such a thing. Anyway why don’t we all meet up on the next topic, we have exhausted this one. It is a laugh though. I have NEVER seen so much arguing and disagreement on ROM as the last two days . Amusing stuff. Can you believe we are all fully grown men and we just obsess over the beautiful game. When you really think about it is rather funny. Everyone has their own views but everyone thinks their view is right!!
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THATS BECAUSE I AM RIGHT !!!!!!
Im playing, but you did say that, I’ll prove it look….
***Paul Parker – No I disagree mate. I neither rate Young or Agbonlahor. He is just raw pace and a stocky cunt***
But yes, eitherway, we’ll agree to disagree mate. Have a good one.
@King Eric
The FA cup draws have been very very very kind to them. Not to mention how many home ties they’s ve got. You know how many they are? 14 of their 20 last Round 3 to Round 6 games have been at home!
By the way, out record in the last 20 Fa cup draws, is 10 home and 10 away ties.
Paul – Well technically you are wrong as you QUOTED me! Stocky is not “tall”. Only messing. Enjoyed the discussion tonight. Goodnight.
Costas – Staggering record. Karma is a bitch though and they seem to get well and truly fucked in Europe. Missed pen in Moscow. AWFUL refereeing at the Bridge last season in Barca’s favour and the blatant penalty for Kalou last night which could have turned the tie. They cannot have it all ways.
@King Eric
Not to mention the Liverpool goal that never was in 2005 or Messi getting Del Horno sent off in 2006. One would think that Mourinho has 1-2 surprises for them at the Bridge. But seeing as our meeting with them is sandwiched between the C.L. quarters, I would prefer it if they knocked Inter out.
Goodnight
God yeah I forgot about those. I suppose it works both ways. If the Rentboys win their tie then the squad will struggle to cope on 3 fronts however a defeat would knock the stuffing out of them.
Goodnight.
I wouldnt be suprised if lost and try to spin it so they want to help chelsea gain points on us lol
TBH I’d rather Chelsea hadn’t been screwed by the ref against in last year’s semi-final, know what I mean?
Then again, if only SAF had started Berbatov in the final, who knows how many goals we’d have won by?
Costas – well back in the 90s and the treble winning season I did not give a crap who played, the only thing I saw back in the 98/99 season was just shear madness from astart to finish a phew of us almost had heart attacks and hey who ever was picked except for schmeicheal it did not matter.
I was to young to look at tactics only thing that mattered was if fergie was happy I am happy well if schmecheal started I did not care who else started, and still am to a digree I am happy, but what has changed is I have got a little smarter to tactics so I think I know better, when in reality I should be saying who is the one getting payed and has won all the trophys NOT ME.
Scott is doing evrything he can to convince us that berbatov is a good player. he has been proividing this stats for 1000 times. i don’t think the player himself tried so hard as scott does to deserve a place in our team. sorry scott.
Wow Saha is fifth after being injured foe half of the season and playing In a very poor everton side with lots of injuries at a begginning of the season. Impressive. Berba Should be scoring more tan a goal every 155 mins at a club like united with the amount of starts hes hasd. £0 mill? Waste of money in my opinion
I am sorry but I am getting FED UP of all these Berbatov mothers! He is not good enough to change a game or to start an important match! He is slow! He has a few tricks – very nice – but for God’s sake we need a Villa or Torres not this bloody insecure blathering idiot that no one can rely on that inspires no confidence – face it Berbatov has failed at united – he will leave soon and he will be put down as one of SAF’s bad buys just like Veron and the sooner the useless muppet goes the better. I would rather see Ownen or Diouf play than him.