On December 12th 2009, Wolves fought to win three points away at White Hart Lane. A couple of weeks earlier Spurs had beaten Wigan 9-1 at home so this was definitely a great result for Wolves. They had scored after three minutes but as the game progressed, had to pull out a massive performances to secure all the points.
Spurs had 7 shots on target to Wolves’ 2, 11 shots off target to their 2, 8 blocked shots to their 1, and 70% possession of the ball to their 30%.
Three days later, they had to travel to the home of the Champions, who should be up for the fight after losing to Villa at Old Trafford days earlier. Wolves also had to consider they had lost 1-0 in the League Cup to United’s second string, and that was with us going down to ten men after 30 minutes.
So Mick McCarthy rested his tired players who had beaten Spurs and picked ten different players for Old Trafford.
Premier League rule E20: In every league match each participating club should field a full-strength team.
Wolves have now been handed a suspended £25,000 fine for changing the team around.
1. Why were other teams not punished?
April 29th 2006 – Chelsea are crowned Premiership champions after thrashing United 3-0 at Stamford Bridge.
Cech, Ferreira, Carvalho, Terry, Gallas, Makelele, Joe Cole, Essien, Lampard, Robben, Drogba.
May 2nd 2006 – Chelsea lose 1-0 to Blackburn.
Cudicini, Geremi, Carvalho, Gallas, Del Horno, Maniche, Diarra, Lampard, Wright-Phillips, Crespo, Gudjohnsen.
Carvalho, Gallas and Lampard are the only players to have started both games.
May 7th 2006 – Chelsea lose 1-0 to Newcastle.
Pidgeley, Ferreira, Huth, Carvalho, Gallas, Johnson, Diarra, Maniche, Robben, Joe Cole, Duff.
Chelsea lost five games all season, with two of them coming for the last two games of the season where they changed their team around, clearly indicating they did not play their “full strength” team for these games.
May 1st 2007 – Liverpool book their place in the Champions League final after beating Chelsea 1-0.
Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Riise, Pennant (Alonso 78), Gerrard, Mascherano (Fowler 118), Zenden, Kuyt, Crouch (Bellamy 106).
May 5th 2007 – Liverpool lose 1-0 to relegation candidates Fulham
Reina, Arbeloa, Paletta, Hyypia, Insua (Finnan 75), Pennant (El Zhar 65), Alonso, Sissoko, Gonzalez (Kewell 77), Fowler, Bellamy.
Reina and Pennant are the only two players who started both games, with Pennant being subbed off on both occasions.
Out of interest, Fulham escaped relegation by one point that season, thanks to the three points gifted by Liverpool’s second string. Sheffield United were relegated in their place and haven’t returned to the Premiership since.
May 16th 2009 – A scoreless draw at Old Trafford against Arsenal secures the title for Manchester United.
Van der Sar, O’Shea, Vidic, Jonny Evans, Evra, Ronaldo, Fletcher, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney (Anderson 89), Tevez (Park 67).
May 24th 2009 – United beat Hull away in a game that could relegate them, despite playing a weakened team.
Kuszczak, Rafael Da Silva (Eckersley ,60 ), Neville, Brown, de Laet (Possebon 79), Nani, Fletcher, Gibson, Welbeck (Tosic 87), Martin, Macheda.
Darren Fletcher is the only player to appear in both games (and that was down to the fact he would miss the Champions League final three days later through suspension).
The worry ahead of this fixture was a weakened United team would lose to Hull and therefore save them from relegation, like Fulham two years earlier. As it was, our second string team was good enough to beat Hull but they escaped relegation by one point because of results elsewhere.
2. Who decides what a club’s “full strength team” is?
Football is a squad game these days and I’d love for someone to tell me what Manchester United’s “full strength team” is. We play different formations depending on our opponents and we use different players in midfield depending on who we are up against. Park is often used on the wing against a more attacking team, whilst Nani might be used when we’re looking at how to break a team down, for example. Some people might have had Wes Brown or Gary Neville starting against AC Milan, for the experience they possess, but it was teenager Rafael da Silva who was chosen to deal with Ronaldinho.
So where do the Premier League draw a line? How can they argue to know what your first team is, based on injuries, opponents, and how well the players have done in training? Quite simply, they can’t.
“I played Ronald Zubar, who cost £2million from Marseille and played in the Champions League,” said McCarthy after the game. “I played George Elokobi, who has had 200 league games, Matty Hill, who has had 350 league games, and Michael Mancienne, who we actually couldn’t buy from Chelsea because he is so good. An American international in Marcus Hahnemann, Greg Halford was £2million from Sunderland, an Ecuadorian international who plays every time in Segundo Castillo, Kevin Foley, who is our Player of the Year, George Friend, who has been on loan at Scunthorpe, an Austrian international up front in Stefan Maierhofer and we had Andrew Surman, who was about £1.5million from Southampton. So I played a first team. I had lads who couldn’t play, so there is my explanation. Put it all down in writing. I maximised my resources at Wolves Football Club. I am sad we lost at Old Trafford but we won on Sunday and have got nine out of 12 points.”
As far as I’m concerned, every Premier League manager should be entitled to pick a team that best suits his club. Last season, the fans of teams in the relegation battle were furious about the prospect of United fielding their Reserves against Hull, which is totally understandable. But we had a European Cup final to play in three days later so why on earth should we risk injuries and tiredness ahead of our biggest game of the season for the sake of Newcastle and Middlesbrough? It should be the manager’s job to put his club in the best position possible, not spoil their chances of success for the sake of being “fair” to other clubs.
The results shouldn’t really matter. We can say United would have probably beaten Wolves regardless, given that the ten men of our Reserve team beat them a couple of months earlier in the League Cup, but really, that is irrelevant as far as these rules go. The belief is that Wolves have done us a favour and therefore caused damage to Chelsea’s title challenge so should be responsible for it.
If the tables had been turned and Chelsea were the team facing a different Wolves side, I’d probably be a bit miffed (whilst again recognising that Chelsea would probably beat them at home anyway) but it doesn’t change the core issue here, that clubs should be entitled to play whichever team they see fit to benefit themselves. The fact that the Premier League have chosen to pick on Wolves for this, when plenty of other teams have done the same, adds to the ridiculousness of it all.
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See what the Wolves fans think of this decision.
Man Utd News 24/7
Best quote I heard all week was “I wouldn’t trust the FA to run my bath of an evening”.
Can’t remember who said it but I couldn’t agree more. Wankers.
Nice argument.
There is simply no way for the Premier League to decide what warrants as a teams ‘first eleven’. The rule essentially punishes teams for having squads with depth. Are Premiership sides expected to have only 11 good players, with the rest being ‘second choice’ or worse? United’s squad has depth, so will we eventually suffer the thick end of this rule? Probably not because we have more than 11 good players, but that’s not the point, the rule is too hard to police.
Also how would the rule deal with massive squad rotation such as the type Benitez used to have in place at Spanfield? (although we all like to remember how this tactic won them nothing)…
In short, the E20 rule is a load of rubbish.
All managers should publicly support McCarthy over this. In truth you’d probably get every manager except that twat Benitez.
Any club is entitled to take decisions that are best for them.
Wolves were correct IMO.
Just that they did it against Man Utd leads them into trouble, if they have done it against the scoucers they wouldn’t be in any trouble.
Typical of FA. FA is sh*t.
Didn’t united Field a weakened team again Everton in the semi’s of the FA & lost!
Think this as bigger implications an most think, wolves may of held united to draw if fielded a full strength team!! (nobody knows) so if united get 4 in a row, by winning the tittle by 1 point can Chelsea now sue!
EPL is a tournament where you have to play 38 games during different times of the year during different circumstances etc. It’s like every other championship on earth and most of the other sports are also unfair at times. When Rafael Nadal won Australian Open last year he had to play 2 5-set matches before the final with Federer and had one day less for rest before the final. It’s just the way it is and this rule from FA is ridiculous.
The rule as been abused, as far as I’m aware the rule is only there to ensure the team Field a full strength team…. meaning 11 players.
Fucking outrageous. Also looking forward to seeing what dirty Pat gets.
United are really up against Officialdom this season.
@Fred
Except Wenger too. He already expressed his hypocritical views on the subject:”Wolves has undermined the credibility of the league”. Pretty hypocritical.
“Wolves’ starting XI at Old Trafford had all featured in the Wolves first-team this season, and included six internationals” The Guardian
As Scott pointed out, how can they tell this isn’t the strongest team given Wolves had 3 games in 1 week and had already had a tough match vs Spurs?
This is a disgrace. If they want to apply the rule, why only Wolves? Every team does it.
Well said mate.
McCarthy was right about his team though… It was the best team he could put forward and no team in the prem is an “easy team” to play against… The officials should know better…
Spurs fan here in peace what a load of crap this e20 rule is!If wolves employ a playing staff of approx 40 full profesionals there wages paid by the club it is up to the manager of the club who he selects and chooses to use ! this all came about because WENGER came out and said Man u will now only play 37 games this season the whinging git. Let wolves run there own affairs thats what I say.
Scott, you should send this to the FA and wolves and allow them to read it.
They are a disgrace.
Absolute disgrace. Against any club but United the FA wouldn’t give a fuck. The FA are ruining football in England! Something has to be done.
Sorry… But how do the FA decide if they are fielding a weak team or not… I dont get it…
The FA really don’t want us to win the league. The comment above summed it up nicely anyone but United there would nothing done. Hopefully Wolves appeal and the fine gets quashed.
This is diabolical.
@NotoriousRedDevil
they won’t appeal.
“Today’s announcement means we can draw a line under the issue and concentrate fully on the remaining Premier League games.”
The Premier League have shown how biased they are to any team outside of the top 4!
Perhaps rule E20 should be re-written to read thus:-
‘ALL Premier League teams minus Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool MUST without exception play their strongest teams at all times in League matches.’
‘Those (aforementioned) 4 teams are more powerful than the others and if we do not do what they say, they will form their own League and that would create a dangerous precedent!’
Now I am Man. Utd fan and although I was greatful that Wolves did not play their strongest 11 at the time, the fine, even a suspended one, is a disgrace and as has been stated earlier, ALL PL managers should DEMAND that this fine be retracted with immediate effect!
The modern game is no longer played by 11 men but by 14 and with the games these days so pressurised and with so much money involved to remain in the PL, managers like Mick McCarthy MUST be allowed to choose whichever 11 players they want to suit their clubs’ needs.
The changing of 10 outfield players could be classed as extreme but only because it was Wolves who did it, if it had been any of the top 4, which they have on a number of occasions, it would have gone largely un-noticed wouldn’t it?
The Premier League believe they have made a point about this incident but in my view they have made themselves look totally stupid – and I hope McCarthy does it all over again if the need arises – just to show the PL who picks the team!
What a load of shit…Can we write in or call in? Something needs to be done. Everyone should be supporting the Wolves
Darknight, this could be a good money-maker for the PL, couldn’t it?
Scudamore: “In the Premier League’s opinion, Hilario is better than Petr Cech and therefore should have played yesterday. £25,000 please, Chelsea.”
“We are also outraged by the selection of Rio Ferdinand ahead of Oliver Gill in yesterday’s United match. United are hereby fined £25,000.”
Thanks for the support everyone – it’s utterly hypocritical. Sort of funny that the FA cite the “integrity of the Premier League” after proving there is none!
Best comment here: Who decides what a club’s “full strength team” is?
lol @ Fred
This decision is ridiculous. I guess this is just the FA’s way of setting a precedent so they can fine Man Utd for not fielding a full strength team in the Carling Cup at the next possible opportunity.
Some people may call me a conspiracy theorist but I wonder if the outcome would’ve been different if Wolves would’ve lost 3-0 to Liverpool instead of United?
Far fetched? I’m pretty sure Mascherano got away with smacking Beckford just as bad as Rio.
would the FA consider the wolves team to have been ‘not full strength’ had wolves come away with a point or three (not that there was a big chance of that) WANKERS
FA are fucking bastards. I can’t say that I am at all suprised that this has happened. If those players registrations have been submitted to the Premier League then they are entitled to play.
I dont know why some are making it an issue about The FA picking on United again, this doesnt affect us. I know they seem to come down hard on us at times, but lets not create new conspiracy theories with issues like this, its nothing to do with United for once – the problem is that Wolves changed their entire out field team and seemingly threw in the towel before a ball was kicked.
Saying that, its a disgraceful decision, and speaking as a football fan, and not just a United fan, they have opened up a can of worms big time. I’d like to see where it all ends to be honest, because there is a fine line between fielding your ‘strongest 11′ for any particular game and rotating your squad for the benefits of the whole league campaign. The only people McCarthy should have to answer to is the Wolves club management, and to the Wolves fans.
Its an absolute joke of a decision, but its harsh on Wolves, nothing to do with us.
ridiculous. not the first time however, unfortunately, not the last time we see how FA is simply ridiculous
Jesus Christ, the FA have been known to fuck up from time to time, but this decision is probably at the bottom of the barrell. So moronic. Have they noticed how many times second string teams affect the outcome of Ch.League groups? AC Milan have done it twice.
I feel bad for Wolves, but why does this decision come now? We play Wolves next month right? Could it be that the FA want to make sure that Wolves don’t let us off the hook this time?
Oh fuck the FA, we will not stop at putting up a title challenge. We will believe till the end that we can nick it. No matter the obstacles those idiots put in front of us.
The FA will now rank a clubs players and the best 11 have to play from now on. Seems to me that is where we are heading.
The only reasons the FA charged Wolves is that they played Manchester United in that match and they are pretending to play tough.
FA are simply a bunch of shameless idiots that are ruining the game.
Yep. So Scholes, who’s basically considerded a regular these days, has to play every game until he collapses. Nice.
Nice article, you present a very convincing case Scott. With the other examples mentioned it really does seem outrageous that the Fucking Arseholes have singled out Wolves here. The only difference I can see is the fact that ALL 10 outfield players were changed but McCarthy makes a good case for the capability of his side and some regular starters actually returned to the starting line-up having missed the spurs game. Apparently, the definition of “full-strength” as specified by the E20 rule is “changing a maximum of 9 outfield players from the previous game”. Cvnts!
Redforever – who Chelsea gunna sue? Wolves?! They certainly can’t sue us anyway so who gives a fuck!
Oh, wait, there is one more difference I just realised, Wolves were playing MAN UNITED. Now all is clear.
Those players are being paid for playing football.
Therefore they are professionals, and are good enough at what they do.
Fielding a team full of professional players is at full strenght.
What a fantastic read and thanks for your support.
It appears as though we are an easy target
good facts and a good post . cheers to you lot for the backing .. chelsea and arsenal get away with too much . hope we can get some points off those flash tossers at the weekend and help your boys onto the title
A lot of people slagging off the FA here…
…it’s actually the Premier League in this instance, not the FA.
This becomes an issue because they were playing Manchester United. The FA won’t bat an eyelid if it were against the Chavs or the Dippers etc.
This is the finest piece I’ve ever seen on this blog.
Wolves must be supported by everyone in the league, as this is an effin’ disgrace.
I’m really curious now, out of the original line-up, how many of the second line-up (for Wolves against United) were on the bench?
Whoever came up with this rule is a mug. It is just impossible to put out a full strength team for every game; especially in the premier league.It all depends on the circumstances. They should at least apply this rule for everyone and, including the ‘big teams’, not just target the weaker teams. This will never happen though, what a ridiculous decision.
The Premier League statement added: “In coming to this decision the board also wants to put clubs on notice that any future rule breach of this nature would be subject to a disciplinary commission that would have available a full range of sanctions.”
Thats the real story, and the real agenda for The Premier League, its just showing what road they plan to go down, and they pick on little old Wolves to make their point. A disgrace. How the fuck do they plan on policing that rule for the big teams with the big squads and the European games coming thick and fast? Fucking idiots.
For fuck sake what a joke this is!! So by their reckoning if Wolves were to bring through the likes of say a Beckham, Scholes , Butt and the Nevilles from their youth team, who havent played many first team matches, to play against any team in the league it would be classed as a weakened team!! is Alan Hansen part of the board who decide this by any chance!! and how do you decide which teams this line up would be weak against?? What if Wolves would have beat us?? would it still have been a weakened team and would they still have fined them?? I doubt it very fucking much!! There is nothing wrong with what Mick did regarding his team selection, he is the manager and thats what he is paid for!!
Laughable!! I’d like to know who was representing Wolves at the hearing because I’m not sure how they managed to get away with imposing this fine. Could we make the FA rescind Rio’s and Nani’s bans based on the fact that without them we are no longer fielding our strongest team!! Will we see retrospective bans for Arsenal and ourselves based on the weakened teams that these clubs have fielded in the past? What happens if this weakened team actually wins? Will their opponents be fined for failing to beat a weakened team or will the weakened team be awarded £25k for winning! What a joke!!
Macheda scored a last gasp winner against Aston Villa to make it 3-2. This goal is being disallowed because he was previously in the youth team. Michael Owen has a great premier league goal scoring record and should be playing in every match for 90 minutes.
This is so insulting to the wolves players, just because they are in a relegation battle the FA presume that they have a half decent starting line up but every one else in the squad is shit. The truth is they’re all pretty much of the same standard. If they’re going to enforce this rule they should apply it to the FA cup and Carling cup as well. Arsene Wenger doesn’t rest players in premier league matches because he can’t risk it so he plays his youth teams in the FA cup and Carling cup.
Ridiculous decision, I couldn’t believe it when I read it – this opens a massive can of worms!
The way I look at this decision is a setup for the wankers at the FA (and the people that made this decision) to shore up more power.
Now they will have this decision to start dictating to teams who they should be playing. Oh you rested player soandso and didn’t win your match … let us charge you.
It’s going to open up a can of worms to where teams are now just going to complain anytime they feel another team didn’t field a proper team and a result affected their place in the league.
Wolves players of the day should also sue the FA for libelous claims that they were not good enough to be playing a PL match. Such claims can affect their worth on the market plus what wages they can ask for. I wouldn’t piss on the FA if they were on fire to put it out. They need some real football people in charge and not bunch of cocksucking twats.
The FA are essentially suggesting that Wolves threw the game, which is hugely disrespectful to the club and it’s players.
With this latest farce, added to their handling of SAF’s Alan Wiley criticism and the double standards surround Rio’s recent suspension, it is becoming clear that Lancaster Gate has a very clear anti-United agenda.
And for those who say this is nothing to do with United, think it through guys. It has everything to with us, because the FA are effectively preventing clubs from fielding their talented youngsters and/or peripheral players against us, irrespective of their previous/next fixtures.
They are saying don’t even think about squad rotation when you play against United.
Bottom line, a Premier League squad is exactly that. A group of players registered to play in the PL. You don’t see UEFA making sanctions against teams playing less experienced players in the final group game of the Champions League, when they have qualified, but 2nd place is still up for grabs.
I seen this story this morning I just laughed and taught there is no way this can go through. 11 premiership players should be good enough to start a game.
If we do win the league this year, this will be just one of many excuses that will be used by the rent boys.
The fa are fucking useless!!!
FA cup semi final utd vs everton utds 2nd,3rd string side almost beat everton 1st 11.
feel so very sorry for wolves
North Stand – I can appreciate what you are saying and it may well just be conspiracy theories but in my mind the only reason this has happened as many on here have stated is because they were playing United. You only had to listen to the cunt’s on talksport and in the rags saying how we were given an advantage over Chelsea and Arsenal. Its nowt to do with Wolves, more us in my opinion.
Paul H – Hello mate. Got to North stands post then had to give my response before I forgot. It seems you have a similar train of thought to me on this.
Is it me or everytime the FA makes any kind of decision like this they show more and more that they are not football people and they really have no clue about the game? I would love to know who actually makes these decisions!
The FA needs to be replaced with former players or people who have been involved with football for a number of years ( eg. playing/coaching/refereeing and not the former finance manager from Accrington Stanley) – but even then we could end up with more people like Michel Platini!
I like how the Premier League views just one side of the coin. From what I remember at the time, the Wolves first team was pretty knackered after their result at Spurs. Who’s to say they wouldn’t have been easy picking for us? I am not trying to disrespect them, but it is what it is. You never know in football. So I suppose, we can’t rest Rooney against West Hamn now?
i must say obertan is looking really good in the reserves game on right now..
diouf is playing very good too.. movement is excellent.. flicks hold up play!!
and anderson is treading nice passes always looking for the ball and doing well!!!.. of course fergie is in the crowd watching.. but obertan is really shining.. taking on players with ease.. lots of pace!
HEY LADS!! When did Possebon come back? He is playing for the reserves tonight with Ando!! Sky plused it but just heard Paddy say that the first twenty minutes Obertan has been superb.
Evening King Eric, you’re right. They never do anything remotely positive for United. I’ll never forgive them for the total lack of help with fixtures back in mid-nineties when we were trying so hard to become the major force in Europe that we are now. And then there was the FA cup / World Club fiasco back in 99/00.
The Spanish and Italian FA’s were moving fixtures to give their teams the best chance and our lot were doing anything but. All we’ve had from them is double standards and players picking up long term or career ending injuries while on England duty.
And then there is the total lack of respect for our manager and his views. If anyone has earned the right to pass objective commentary on refereeing performance and standards, it’s him. But instead, they send him to the stands
And people then wonder why United supporters aren’t falling over themselves with enthusiasm when it comes to the National team…..
“And people then wonder why United supporters aren’t falling over themselves with enthusiasm when it comes to the National team…..”
Absolutely spot on Paul.
According to ManUnitedYouth @twitter, Fabio had to be subbed off after just 9 mins, came 2nd best in a hard tackle at Moss Lane.
Gutted for the lad !
As for FA, its just disgraceful !
A driving run through the middle from Ando and finished off by………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..DIOUF!!!!
I have seen Anderson in the reserves twice now and both times he has stood out like a sore thumb. Come on lad knuckle down and get a place in the first team.
Shit that didn’t come out right! Finished off by Diouuuuuuf!!
United 2-0 up !
Diouf n Cameron Stewart with the gols !
United Reserves VS Everton Reserves , United 2 goals up, goal by Diouf quickly followed by another by Cameron Stuart, Both goals were scored late in the first half. it is half time right now.
Obertan has been playing really well, lots of pace and some good balls. Diouf had many chances but the keeper was up for it and made some good saves.
Anderson is doing well, must be hard being relegated to the reserves but he is doing his job well.
Possebon is also playing, Foster in goal.
Anderson taken off at the hour, looks like he might play some part at Goodison now !
Febian Brandy replaces Diouf, our final change !
Looks like Ando is coming back! Probaby for a bench spot at Goodison and to start against the Hammers.
Any news on Fabio? We don’t have another cover for Evra!
to EastStandManc (first post)
I read the quote “I wouldn’t trust the FA to run my bath” a few minutes ago on the andersred blog, the guy who wrote that letter to David Gill with 10 questions about our finances.
Brilliant article Scott, the premierleague have set a ridiculous precedent that will prove impossible to maintain.
uite simply what I dislike is the dishonesty of it – the attendance at a post-match press conference with scientific facts (one hopes he gets the same opprobrium as Rafa did for his ‘facts’ rant) that states players who play within three days of another game lose up to 40% of their capability. Really? Does anyone actually believe this when thousands of teams manage to do this numerous times a month? Indeed, if this is the case, why doesn’t he do this every time his team play twice in a week? Why doesn’t everyone? Because it is total nonsense.
Furthermore, he has stated that this was ‘normal rotation’ and that this was his ‘strongest squad’. I’d admire him so much more if he was honest and said ‘we were always going to get humped and I thought I’d give them a rest’.
The idea that this was normal rotation or that McCarthy views his squad as an extended first team is just pure and simple horse. It just isn’t normal rotation, we all know that.
One player was making his first start of the campaign, another his second and another called back from loan 24 hours previously – not normal rotation and, I’d say, outwith the league’s rules. This was not normal rotation, it was simple capitulation. I, again, agree that McCarthy can throw games if he damned well pleases but if a player was found to be doing such a thing he’d have the rulebook thrown at him. Indeed, McCarthy did break two rules when he did this but these rules are hard to enforce.
Of course, McCarthy is correct to say that his fate will be decided at the end of the season and if Wolves stay up or not. I’m not sure, however, we want to turn our league into quite such a utilitarian place – ‘I’ll lose games (on purpose) so that I can win other games in the future.’ What a disappointing outlook on life?
A few further points:
Firstly, anyone who notes that ”well, Big Clubs do it from time to time” is quite amazingly idiotic as any such comparison. Firstly, because other people do bad things is not a justification for us all to do it. It just isn’t – imagine using that defence on a theft charge.
I nicked someone’s wallet. Don’t prosecute me because someone else did? That’s rubbish and we all know it is.
Secondly, the difference between Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and (on current form to a lesser extent) Liverpool fielding a second team and Wolves doing so is, well, United’s second team is likely to be exceedingly strong. Wolves knew they were going to lose. United dropping 10 players will probably mean 10 other internationals getting in – I still don’t agree but at least there is a stronger case.
Thirdly, there is a difference between rotation and capitulation. Ten changes between two league games is, I’d guess, almost unheard of.
I am very much a man from the Chievo School of playing the big guns. Chievo, when promoted to Serie A a few years back, took the conscious decision to attack the biggest teams in the league. All too often weaker teams play for a draw at best and a 1-0 loss (at worst) when they play away at big grounds. Chievo, refreshingly, realised that if they were likely to get beat and if everyone expected to get beat they may as well go all out to win the games. Sometimes they got spanked but they managed to win some of the games. One only needs to look at Burnley against Manchester United and Arsenal or Liverpool this season to see that ”small teams” can beat the big boys occasionally. After all, Burnley beat a far stronger United team than the one Wolves played.
All of the big boys have had upsets against them this year and one would imagine a Wolves team, confident after a win against Spurs, might have fancied their chances against Ritchie De Laet in the United central defence.
Whilst I understand that this is McCarthy’s choice and he is paid handsomely to make such choices, there are wider issues at stake here. The Premier League is supposedly a competitive league – the paying punters who turn up often dread a result but hope that there might be an upset, those subscribing to Sky don’t pay for nothing. The Premier League also wants to market itself both in the UK and globally as an entertaining thing to watch. If clubs deliberately put out weakened teams because they think they will lose, this idea will be seriously undermined.
Now, McCarthy will say that his first duty is to the Board and to the club. The first duty is to the Wolves fans who pay the wages of the players and, indeed, McCarthy. Wigan had the good grace to reimburse fans when they were humped by Spurs and, at least, Wigan were trying to win even if they were awful. Wolves have said that they have ”empathy” with the fans who booed McCarthy and his decision and McCarthy has said that he understands their anger. Not good enough – if people travel up the motorway and pay £42 to watch their team play it is not too much to hope that the team will actually be attempting to win the game.
All those who say that the recent controversies over N’Gog, Rooney or Eduardo’s dives in recent months have brought the Premier League into disrepute, how it has tarnished the reputation of the game should also point their guns to McCarthy. At least, N’Gog, Rooney and Eduardo were trying to win the game. McCarthy didn’t seem to care if he lost.
If McCarthy’s base utilitarianism is justified then lots is. When you resort ‘ends justify means’ arguments you end up justifying almost anything – players running the length of the pitch screaming at the ref? Fine, as long as it gets the result you want. Players diving? Fine, as long as we win. Players deliberately handballing it? Fine, as long we win. Managers throwing games? Fine, as long as win in the long run.
Possebon is back bitches
Anderson is back too bitches.
Hey GHTT.
May be the wolves players should sue the FA with ‘are you calling me a-not-good-enough-player to play for Wolves’? This decision beggars belief and so typical of the FA.
who are these people who run the FA? faceless twats
Lads
Have you fucking heard this cunt? More Manc’s are blue as they are working class and Citeh are grafters. Lazy, greedy money grabbing mercenary cunt’s more like:-
http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2171/premier-league/2010/02/18/1796271/nigel-de-jong-manchester-city-have-more-mancunian-fans-than
How BAD are the dippers. I was listening to Taylor banging on about St Stevie and I thought to myself. Having witnessed the form of Scoles of late this cunt is not fit to lace his boots. Scholes could easily do a job for Ingerlund and the funny thing is it is their loss. Different league to the thug, fat Frank and pub player Barry.
The Scousers barely managed to beat a Sunday league side from Romania who ain’t played in 2 and a half months and the commentators seemed to give them more credit for getting a win than we did for winning in the San Siro.
Hey costa mate future is bright
Hope you are doing better GHTT
@King Eric
Well, Unirea did give Rangers a good hiding in the Ch.League, but it’s still nothing to brag about. I actually want the dippers to qualify. Because they will play the second leg of the next round 3 days before the trip to OT while we will have the week off. A perfect opportunity for revenge!
In other news, Ranieri did it again. Roma were winning 2-1 against Panathinaikos with 5 minutes to go and they managed to lose…
What does that twat know about working class? The shameless mercenary cunt probably didn’t even know there were two clubs in Manchester until his agent told him that some mugs from Abu Dhabi wanted to make him the highest paid water-carrier in Europe. Always talking shit that guy.
Interested to read Rob Marrs’ comments, and there are some points that I largely agree with…
I do think that, as ever, the FA’s punishment against Wolves was partly driven by the noise the media made when it happened.. It’s not the first time a team has put out a weakened team in a league fixture, and I’m sure it won’t be the last… Was it because they were playing a ‘Top-Four’ club?
I should add that I do agree making 10 changes was excessive, even if McCarthy did want to rest players, so I can see some justification in the fine… But the point Scott was making (if I read it right) is that the FA justified their punishment by quoting Premier League rule E20: ‘In every league match each participating club should field a full-strength team.’ It goes without saying that this rule is nay-on impossible to enforce on those clubs at the top end of the league, which then makes it a bit of a joke ruling… So unfortunately, you are always going to get some people arguing about the fairness of it all… I also think that maybe if McCarthy didn’t come out beforehand and say that he was resting players for the Burnley game at the weekend, then maybe there wouldn’t have been such a big deal made of it… I also think that if he had made five or six changes, instead of 10, again, it would have not drawn so much attention… It still wouldn’t have been their strongest team though, would it?
Yeah I thought it was an interesting post from Rob Morris. Which club does he follow, Wolves? I ain’t taking the piss but at no point in his post did he let on. Great post.
Sorry “Rob Marrs”
I was happy to see Anderson putting on a fine performance and playing for a good long hour tonight. I hope to see him start the Westham game, where we can afford to rest Carrick and Fletcher. Speaking of our youth, I heard Matty James has made a bigger impact than Danny has at Preston. I have yet to see him play there but from many are claiming he has looked very impressive whenever playing.
many are*
Costas, good thinking about the Dippers staying in the Europa League. I was amazed they played a full strength side against that pile of shite with a “battle for 4th” match with Ciddy at the weekend but they proved their own “pile of shite” credentials once again with that performance.
Makes our 2-0 loss against them even more infuriating. We’d better give them a fucking hiding at OT, you just know they’ll be well up for their “cup final” as usual and they’ll unwrap Fandango Torres from his cotton wool especially for the game. The memory of last season’s game should ensure that our players are motivated to get the job done this time.
Sorry to go off topic but PLEASE read this post from a Citeh fan on the MEN. You could not make it up. They are delusional beyond belief. ” Blue Heart” at 21.06pm
Hilarious.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_city/s/1192986_fa_charge_vieira_with_violent_conduct?page=3&page_size=25#comments
“Is it me or has that little corner of English football heaven called Manchester City suddenly become responsible for all foul acts committed in this fractured garden that is English football”.
ROFL, I stopped at this, my eyes can’t read so much shit! Still laughing hahahaha.
@Fred
From what I see, they will play that second leg at Anfield on March 18th, against either Lille or Fenerbahce. It’s a pity that they won’t play away, but we can’t have everything.
The tie will probably still be open before than game.
The OT tie is scheduled for Sunday the 21st of March, 13:30. That gives them 60 hours of rest. The same amount we had last season before the 4-1 defeat. No mercy!
Is “Blue Heart” for real? LOL!
The reason why Evans got the hairdryer in front of everyone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1252077/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-All-Manchester-United-defenders-needed-hairdryer–Jonny-Evans-got-nearest.html?ITO=1490
Poor Jonny!
@ fred I couldna agree more, were they shite or what! Same old Twats, and as for Gerrard he looks still to me that linchpin, but …… pissed off? We I am sure will Butt fuck them Dippers on the 20th of March. Just believe Lads. We can do this a 4 in a ROW.
Dont laugh @ Ngog or Babel, pmsl.
Given this rule, and last night in the CL, every Premiership game that either Fabianski or Campbell play in the first team is going to cost Arsenal £25k for fielding a weakened team, right?
What a joke the FA are fining a club for using their players, why didn’t they fine a bigger club and see where they got? Probably because they don’t have the cahunas for it. Certainly baconface would of sulked and not talked to them for a fewyears!
In saying that though I did find it imensely annoying that Villa won a Europa league spot and then threw it away in the first few games by fielding a joke team. Other clubs would of made much more of that place!
It’s a tricky area but certainly one where the FA MUST write down clear and concise rules.
anybody got a video for the reserves highlights??
Evening Craig if yer browsing, lol.And yes i will travel to the Toffee’s and shout like fuck( Nani yer a useless cunt!) lol
The FA’s decision was 100% correct. I have never seen more idiotic nonsense written first by the post and then by every comment that I have seen, with the exception of Rob Marr’s. The only point that I would like to add to Rob’s, and I think this is crucial, is to point out the difference between what Wolves have done and what the bigger clubs do when they rotate their squads.
When Man U or other top four clubs rotate it is because they have, for example, a big European game coming up and the changes will be made regardless of the opposition. It is pure luck of the draw if the fixture computer pits a team against Man U before one of these games (aside from this Man U etc always put out a team that the manager feels can win the match anyway). Wolves, on the other hand, changed their team because they were playing Manchester United. They would not have done so against another team that Mick McCarthy felt they had a reasonable chance of beating. It other teams take this approach then any time a team plays Man U a few days before another ‘winnable’ game then how many reserve teams will Man U play against? As it is, by the end of this season every team in the league will have played 38 games against Premier League Teams, with the exception of Man U who will have played against 37 Premier League Teams and 1 reserve team, simply because they are Manchester United. Where is the fairness in this.
@ Rob Marrs
ok mate, as interesting as it was to read your post and to hear good points of view from the other side of the argument, i largely disagree with a lot of points your making.
firstly, nobody is saying that just because someone else does it, anyone should be allowed to! and to compare it to a defence of stealing a wallet is far more ‘idiotic’ (as you put it) as any other argument put forward on here. the point that people are outraged at is that the other bigger teams that have done it have gone unpunished! its not about the rights and wrongs of the act, its about the double standards of the authorities. theres a difference and the two shouldn’t be confused.
secondly, pointing out that the big four’s second string players are still strong teams again misses the point. as much as i do agree that the top four (to a lesser extent liverpool) have at least 2 top half teams in their squad, that isn’t the point. it’s about fielding a ”full strength” first eleven and regardless of how strong your second string are comparitively with other teams first or second elevens, they are still NOT a ”full strength” first eleven within YOUR squad. which is what this is all about.
thirdly, those changes aren’t unheard of. scott has already given examples of Chelsea making 8 rotations, Liverpool making 9 and United making 10 and these have all gone completely unpunished. so, with your view of the difference between rotation and capitulation.. how many changes becomes capitulation? when theyre made within a weaker club with a considerably lower budget and influence?
i actually do agree with you on the fact that it is disrespectful to the loyal paying fans of the club to expect them to fork out to watch your reserves. but my disgust with this whole fiasco will always come back to the sheer double standards of the inept, corrupt FA that we have in this country. i disagree however that Mick McCarthys ”ends justifying the means” can be associated with diving, trying to influence the ref, handballing or throwing matches. that’s again missing the entire point!! those actions all bring the game into disripute, this we can all agree on and i strongly doubt anybody on here would object to punishment being dished out on those guilty of such crimes. but i guarantee we would have something to say if the big 4 had a history of such acts going ignored yet smaller teams were punished. and that is what this is all about…the FA are handing out punishments for something our very own team and others have been doing for a long time and i’m really happy that my fellow reds on here are as outraged as i am.
i hope i havent come across like i’m trying to pick fault with everything you say mate. it’s really good that you have different opinions than most. but i can’t help think that you’ve somehow missed the point.
and just to add, we’re not called Man U.
@ Bob Frontdoor
mate, what are you talking about? luck of the draw?? it was luck of the draw for Wolves to get United right between those winnable games. if they’d have got Chelsea at Stamford Bridge or Arsenal at the Emirates i guarantee he’d do the same.
and you’re wrong about Big 4 fielding weakened teams just before important Champs League games. that isn’t true if the Premier League game is a tough one. you think if by ”Luck of the Draw” we got Arsenal the week before a Champs League game, we’d play a weaker team?? as if!! we’d only do it if it made sense to with regards to our circumstances at the time. just like Wolves!!
Bob Marrs and Backdoor Bob. What a pair of cunts. Or is it the same cunt perhaps?
“Man U” FFS.
These people with their mock outrage about the team Wolves fielded against United probably couldn’t name a single Wolverhampton Wanderers player if you asked them. They’re a bunch of precious little twerps jumping on a media-driven bandwagon. The supposed disparity in quality between the XIs fielded by Wolves against United and Burnley respectively has been grossly exaggerated. The team that went to Old Trafford performed admirably and the 3-0 scoreline flattered United. I have a feeling irony will be served when Rooney and co travel to Molineux and give the Wolves “first XI” an even bigger thumping than they gave the “weakened” team at Old Trafford.
It’s always United or something related isn’t it? It’s not even funny anymore, this whole FA’s policy of ‘anyone but United’… Wankjobs.
Its a joke and proves that the FA favours the bigger clubs! We have done this for years and so have other teams in the champs league.
Wolves had every right to a play a team of their choice, they are all professional players and as soon as they sign that contract and registered with the FA and are eligible to play.
Not only is this ruling ridiculous, it is also an insult to the players McCarthy played that night. The FA have decided those players don’t deserve to be in the Wolves fist team. They must spend an awful lot of time down the Wolves training ground…….
@ Paul Scholes, he scores goals:
“I read the quote “I wouldn’t trust the FA to run my bath” a few minutes ago on the andersred blog, the guy who wrote that letter to David Gill with 10 questions about our finances”
Cheers fella, that’s the one.
What’s the hell all about this???
Plenty of hatred towards Utd from FA.. for some reasons..!
Ever Single opportunity , they waste no time on shoot at Utd whether relevant or not.. bloody don’t care…Our Manager been penalized more than any other ones in PL .. Look at Rio case .. and now again even though this time is for poor Wolves.. they would have been beaten anyway with strongest or weakest team.. what’s the bloody point …
Henke17, great posts, I’m glad someone has pointed out the stupidity of some of Rob Marrs arguments.
@ Rob Marrs – The following comments:
“Firstly, anyone who notes that ”well, Big Clubs do it from time to time” is quite amazingly idiotic as any such comparison. Firstly, because other people do bad things is not a justification for us all to do it. It just isn’t – imagine using that defence on a theft charge.
I nicked someone’s wallet. Don’t prosecute me because someone else did? That’s rubbish and we all know it is.”
What a load of bullshit! Completely missing the point, what a stupid, patronising analogy. It is the blatant double standards that people are outraged about. The fact that the E20 rule is so ambiguous that it has never been upheld before, even though many teams (mostly top 4) have been guilty of resting lots of players and playing severely weakened teams, only for Wolves to now be punished is quite ridiculous. Top four sides have fielded weakened teams in crucial matches (not for them but for the fate of other teams). Take the Liverpool/Fulham example, it’s not too much of a leap to say that Sheffield United would still be a premier league side if it wasn’t for Liverpool breaking this ‘rule’, yet they went unpunished. Why? Because they still played a team full of professional football players of a high enough standard to compete in the Premier League, players being paid high wages and being asked to earn them. And Wolves were doing exactly the same.
Your other argument:
“Secondly, the difference between Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and (on current form to a lesser extent) Liverpool fielding a second team and Wolves doing so is, well, United’s second team is likely to be exceedingly strong. Wolves knew they were going to lose. United dropping 10 players will probably mean 10 other internationals getting in – I still don’t agree but at least there is a stronger case.”
This is also besides the point! It goes without saying that teams with a stronger first team, like Man Utd or Chelsea, will most likely have a stronger set of squad/reserve players too. So should that mean that they are allowed to use these players but Wolves aren’t, as you seem to be ridiculously suggesting? It is the same for all teams, playing a team of fringe players will not be as strong as a team full of regular starters, and is dissadvantaging teams that have already had to play your “full strength side”. But what is “full strength” anyway and who should decide this? Only one person should be fit to declare what their full strength team is at any particular time, the manager. As long as professional football players are on the pitch then it is not for some stuffed shirts in the FA to decide whether or not they are good enough to play. That is why this E20 rule has never been enforced before and it’s why it is unfair that Wolves have been punished now. Such disparity will always be commonplace with this rule and it needs to be either re-thought and amended or scrapped.
Well said McQueen. Im too busy in work to keep replying (but just enough time to keep reading!!!), but you covered alot of what I wanted to say. Cant see this type of punishment happening again, its such a tough rule to impliment. They’ll either have to change the rule, or reword it at least. What a crowd of morons at the top though, as if we needed reminding.
United to beat Everton 2-0, and Rooney to get one.
maybe the fa are now going to fine united for winning the premier league in 1995-96 season with a team of inexperienced kids.. 25k fine for each of the 38 games ..there on a real money spinner lol
Don’t shoot me – whoever asked I’m a Liverpool fan… but enjoy Republik of Mancunia (one of the best blogs around), and try to give a fair account of all clubs over at my own blog.
And, apologies, for calling the club Man U rather than Manchester United or Man Utd – just for ease of typing, no slur intended.
RCM