So we lost. 6-1. To City. In a week that brought us the catastrophic news of Westlife splitting up, it had me wondering – what about now? Could this really be City’s season in the sun?
It’s always a mini-trauma to lose heavily to a bitter rival, and we all have our own personal coping mechanisms. Some turn to drink, others to God. Some may even choose to throw on their favourite Disney animated feature to soothe away the pain. On Twitter, the red masses were divided into two broad schools of self-therapy – those looking to assign blame, and those scratching about for reasons to be cheerful.
Evans was a predictable scapegoat, as were Ferdinand, Anderson and Evra. Many bemoaned the lack of quantity and quality in a porous midfield, and a ridiculously naive approach to playing with ten men. There was universal praise for City’s mercurial number 21, tinged with real resentment that our current owners had made a move for such a magical player nigh on impossible.
Those optimistic souls searching for a silver lining pointed to the pending return of Tom Cleverley. This is understandable in the context of the midfield looking especially hapless allied with young Cleverley making such a bright start to the season. In many ways he embodied the exciting cavalier panache with which United embarked on their campaign. His game lent itself beautifully to the style of play the team had seemed to have adopted – quick inventive one-touch passing when in possession and sharp, determined closing down when not. Some went as far as to suggest Fergie was looking to mimic the ticky-tacky tactics of Catalonia.
Since then however form has taken a nose dive. Results have continued to be largely positive, but United’s game has become increasingly predictable, deliberate and listless. From delicious swashbuckling beginnings to a gradual return of last season’s dull dogged stodge. Unfortunately for the team/fortunately for Cleverley’s stock, this has coincided with the Bradfordian’s spell on the sidelines. It’s resulted in his steady transformation from exciting youngster to indispensible midfield maestro without a ticky tacked.
Wise old heads have been quick to curb enthusiasm, fearing the youngster won’t possibly live up to the hype. They’re right of course, the boring buggers. But that won’t stop folk investing their hope in him and others – and nor should it. There’s no greater joy for a supporter than to follow a youngster’s rise through club ranks to genuine first team contender. They’re given way more slack than others and showered with far more praise. It’s beautiful, organic and pure, and coated in generous hyperbole.
A youth team find is like a blank canvas. We’ve not got much to go off so we project all our expectations and ideals upon them. A stocky lad with a powerful gait and weak follicles is the next Wayne Rooney. If a player like Cleverley shows a bright mind, neat feet and skilful manipulation of the ball, names as weighty as Scholes, Xavi and Sneijder are hoist upon his young shoulders.
It’s crazy-talk of course but it’s as predictable and understandable as it is nonsensical. Fans aren’t to blame – it’s an ‘if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with’ mentality. Scholes is no more, and he wasn’t replaced with a Modric or Sneijder (skint innit), so the void of expectation is filled by the wonderfully unknown quantity of youth.
As to whether the weight of expectation will somehow crush the beholder of this baseless expectation, it really shouldn’t. The very nature of bigging up a homegrown talent is that a club’s supporters will rate the player far higher than anyone else. As much as United fans rate the likes of de Gea, Smalling, Cleverley, Welbeck, Pogba and Jones (I know they’re not all homegrown, pedankers), the extent of their excitement is not shared by outsiders. It’s not a full-blown wankathon. In any case, if a player can cope with everything that goes with pulling on the red jersey, a few giddy kippers in the stands aren’t going to push him over the edge.
Some recently expressed chagrin and dismay when Phil Jones’ obvious talents were compared to those of the great Duncan Edwards. The fact that commentators as genuine in authority as Tom Clare were tentatively making the comparisons was by-the-by. After all, Duncan Edwards was, is and always will be Old Trafford’s ultimate sacred cow.
But I’d suggest there’s a dock-off element of incongruity in such thinking. The foundation to everything United have come to represent in terms of youth development and nurturing homegrown talent is based upon the Babes and defined by their tragic passing. Part of the reason why their spirit lives on in the ethos of the club is precisely because theirs was potential lost. They will always remain a bunch of incredibly talented young footballers who together could have become anything. They could have gone on to scale the heights of Hungary’s golden team – we’ll never know. That’s the point.
Edwards more than anyone symbolises sublime talent cut short. By all accounts he was already an incredible footballer, but he still remains a largely uncoloured canvas. We still project upon him a future he never had. We assume he’d have been better than Moore because we’re told so. The greatest English footballer of all time modestly admits to have been his lost teammate’s inferior. But would Duncan have achieved anything approaching as much in the game as Sir Bobby? It’s impossible to know.
Without being all Scouse about it, Edwards and the Babes have instilled in us an instinct to place ridiculous hope in youth. It does no real harm and it warms our collective cockles to imagine what a player could go on to achieve. As a side-note, it’s part of the reason why we despair so intensely at the wasteful behavior of a certain member of our current crop. His consistently self-destructive attitude is robbing us all of the trouser-wetting excitement his embryonic genius would normally allow.
I suppose what I’m trying to say using too many words too rubbishly, is that there’s nowt wrong with letting your imagination get the better of you. If supporting Manchester United and watching saccharine Disney schmaltz has taught us anything, it’s that it’s okay to dream.
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Great article!
The following might sound like a knee-jerk reaction from Sunday’s game, but it reflects what has been said on these pages for a while now. We need someone in the centre who can control the game. Only one player we have can do that and it’s Rooney. Forget the loss up front. He’ll more than make up for it. With Berba and Chicharito or Wellbeck up front, Nani and Young on the wings and any one of Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson behind Rooney, we would have a new edge. On present form, Vidic, Smalling, Jones and Fabio should play against Everton. Jonny Evans can replace Fabio later. we know he can play better than Sunday. Remember, we will never die!
Good post
a slight bit of humor for all you reds Hargreaves is injured!!! hhaaha take that you fucking pot noodle!
Sandeep
I’m good mate and no worries re Trafford Park info.
Looking forward to tonight. Will go someway to pushing Sunday to the back of the cupboard! It will be the second team in 3 days that will be playing their cup final against us!
New here ! Welcome me as your own Brothers !
I love Utd but Sir Alex needs to build a new team, he is half way through this team, we need to maintain the english core but add quality or we will fall behind.
Last year Sir Alex could have made anybody win the league, our squad is nothing special.
This year its all aboot the squad game. With Chelsea improving and City too, we need to strengthen our spine or we will fall behind in the future….you have to invest to see results.
Bring in;
Javi Martinez or Yan M’villa. Would add grit, strength to our Midfield, someone to replace Hargreaves.
Goetze, Kagawa,Kaka, Hernanes, Ganso ….SOMEBODY !!!
Bring in Jordi Alba to replace that over-comfortable, big mouth, out of position Evra.
Evra needs to be sold or dropped, he;s a liability, always makes mistakes and cost us a lot of goals recently. Thought he had gained formed, obviously wrong, he’s a over confident Left winger.
Rio can be our new Hargo. Vida and Smalling FTW. Rio made all the mistakes vs City, looked scared against Suarez ( although had a good game) and has struggled to be fit for 2-3 years.
We need quality to partner the likes of Fletch/Carrick when they start. Clevs & Ando are young & improving they need a midfield partner like Xavi, Mata & Silva & Ramsey + Wilshere have.
New Spine: De Gea, Smalling,Vida, Fletch,Clevs,Rooney,Welbeck
More quality needs adding to this spine ! We are in a good position with Jones,Carrick,Chico on the bench.
1 game doesn’t make the season but after 2 months we can judge to a minor extent who is to be reilied upon. This has to be Rio’s and Evra’s last season, no time for sentiment, they say all the right things but have lost the eye of the tiger. Get them out in the summer bring in a improving Rodwell who is doing great at Everton.
We need to get back to basic, drop the off form guys and play simple boring football.
If we play; De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Vida, Fabio, Nani, Carrick,Fletcher,Park, Rooney, Chico/danny….
we will pack the midfield, have spped and should be more reliable.
Hope aldershot get battered by Pogba,Berbie,Clevs & Fabio. The youth need more games, the past it lads in Rio & Evra are to comfortable,they think this is a retirement home, NO, work for it.
Many may criticise me for my opinions, Im looking for to the debates and not name calling.
Peace Out !
United need a new playmaker end of story .Carrick, and Fletcher can’t cut it. Fletcher thou is a good sub to have knocking around . Cleverley’s too young to expect miracles just yet. and to lose VDS and scholes has took out valuble experience in the squad. There experience was so important. Rooney seems to be doing a lot back in midfield but we can all see the scoring affect its having on the team. Rooney is a striker and we miss him in the firing line. Fergie needs to move fast and get the likes on Moderic or even better Snidjer. Both would come in a flash but Fergie has to get his cheque book out in Jan and make this happen. Defensively United have the players and once the free flowing confident United return. They will improve.
Yep a good post . Anyway Sanchez said it all to me .I take nothing away from MCFCs football team .They exploited our weakness’s Defended well .We were not on par anywhere on the pitch . They have proven you can buy a side that is capable of winning a title . I do not like it but we witnessed it ! As for Citeh the club my disdain knows no bounds and shields me from the mental scars . We have to learn from this , regain the killer instinct in matches . Its a batlle we lost lets look to the rest of the war . Not a fan of disney Scott lol .
@GAZ
Haha. Jokes. “Slight calf niggle” – that’s a 4-month layoff for Hargo, isn’t it?
Very good article. I agree about Cleverley and how he somehow got immortalized in his absence due to Ando’s dip in form. Nani, Rooney and Young have also struggled to replicate their August-early September form, so it’s probably 1 of 2 things: a) Tom is the magic glue that keeps everyone together and brings the best out of the other front 6. b) The team’s form has taken a nosedive and Tom wouldn’t have made much of a difference. I’ll go with b.
I’ll be glad to have him back since the boy showed a lot of promise, but I am afraid our problems will still exist.
The muppetry is back on reports suggesting we are back in for WS . Correct me if im wrong but Ronnie was brought to fergies attention by our players ! wonder if Citeh will sell Sanchez lol .
A new playmaker ? There’s one that may be available in January,one who is slightly bigger than Scholes who is always looking for the ball, makes inch perfect passes and plays great through balls scores peach of goals.I await the abuse but if you watch other teams play this left footer may have caught your eye.Aston Villa’s Barry Bannan.
@Kanchelskis when i saw that news it was the first smile i managed to raise this week! 4 months hahah cant wait for that to happen. im also fucking sick of everyone comparing scarf to being Sir Alexs level what a joke that cunt will fall flat on his face sooner rather then later, i fucking hate these journos getting cunty everytime we lose a game!
@wiuru
Based on your last couple of posts… when you say ‘Sanchez’, do you mean Silva?
I’m a glutten for punishment. Just watched the game again on sky!! Ridiculous!! I didnt realise how good the Evans chance was just before half time?! 1-1 half time different story! Looking at the Red card, Evans was in front of ballotelli when the ball went through, how the hell did he end up wrong side?!! We had 2 chances at 1-0 after the red!! Their second goal Milner walked into the box while Evra just jogged (thats an exaggeration!) behind him. Their 3rd goal Fletcher actually wins the ball but Evra just watches as Silva picks it up instead of challenging for it. Their 4th Rio boots out for a corner from which they score after NOBODY picks up Lescott or Dzeko!! Their 5th follows a pass from us to Dzeko who slips in Silva, no sign of Evra and their 6th! Evra gets to the byline and instead of cutting it back to a red shirt (after all we had 7 players to aim for!) he gets tackled and lescott hoofs it forward from his 6 yard box! With 8 players in city’s half smallings header from the hoof manages to find the only blue in that area who is silva who feeds it to Dzeko! I honestly can not believe it. It looked bad when I was there but watching it again it could have been avoided so so easily! Even ballotellis opener would have been blocked if Evans didn’t slip! Awful!
@parryheid
I wouldn’t normally slate the idea of buying someone like Bannan, but a purchase like that would still be essentially speculative. If we accept that our central midfield now basically represents an emergency situation, we need to address it by buying an established, quality player with a profile on the world stage. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… we must pull out all the stops to try and get Schweinsteiger. So hard to envisage him leaving Bayern though.
Bannan would be a good purchase if we had a stable midfield into which he could gradually integrate, but instead he’d be put right in there with a huge weight of expectation, which is potentially disastrous.
@Costas
Hope the berb scores today.
Sorry about that earlier rant! Shouldn’t have watched the highlights, I’ve given myself a headache!
kanchelskis
I said that because I assumed we are going to be looking for a second mid as well in January,preferably a brute and I am currently looking to see if I can spot a likely candidate out there.
Utd have never panic bought and in January teams jack the prices and take advantage of desperate teams,most of the time January buys don’t pan out.As Willie and other posters have pointed out Sir Alex decided not to strengthen the midfield in the summer,i don’t expect a major signing in January.
@wayne
Yes, prices will be jacked up. But don’t forget we have a very, very good player who doesn’t appear to be in Sir Alex’s plans any more and who can surely command at least £15m value in a cash-plus-player deal.
And yes, he decided not to strengthen the MF in the summer. This was a vote of confidence in our midfield. Thus far, they’ve thrown that confidence back in his face. I see no reason to stick by them based on what we’ve seen so far.
Between now and January Utd will be linked with every midfielder who might or might not be available
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2011/10/25/man-united-prepare-17-4m-bid-for-spanish-international-midfield-maestro/
Its funny reading a post like this when simply put we should have signed a Modric type player in the summer.
Our centre midfield has been the weakest part of the team for the past 3 seasons. no matter how you look at it.
The problem is still there.
Yes we dominated possession in the 1st half and so we should have we were at home but nothing came of it because we lacked quality/class with the final ball.
We will no doubt recover as this being a wake up call to those who need to step up, if we want to stop city winning the league.
Time to play a midfield three of Ferdinand, Rooney and Berbatov imo.
Brilliant article, best one yet in my opinion!
United will never die, this defeat has been coming, its how we grow as a team from it that makes us who we are! BELIEVE !
@kanchelskis hi mate,it will depend on what happens between now and January.We all know all teams normally hit a bad patch through the course of the season hopefully this is Utds and the team will turn things around.
MikeKelly … yes, it was a series of unfortunate events, any one of which might not have been catostrophic by itself. But then, so was the cause of the Chernobyl disaster. In fact, people who analyze these things say that is very often the case. Doesn’t change the fact that they are still disasters.
Another coach in another sport once made the case that when two elite teams clash, even very small differences in detail can translate into big differences on the scoreboard. It is something us fans don’t always appreciate. But the skill levels are incredibly high, not only of the players but of the coaches too, and not just the obvious “ball skills”, but all the “hidden skills” too: the ability to understand a plan and execute it well in the face of intense opposition; the ability to make the right decisions under pressure. As a result, even a slight slip in concentration, positioning, ball-control or commitment can provide the smallest of opportunities for the opposition — and at this level, players are simply too good at taking advantage of those opportunities.
Brilliant article, Bearded Genius! The foundation of youth has been the bedrock of Manchester United’s success over the years, and that will always remain the same.
@Costas, “I’ll go with b)”. As always, ever the cynic. I’ll go with a), thank you very much!
I’ve beaten Cleverley’s drums enough over the past few days, so I don’t feel the need to do it again. One thing though, I don’t expect him to magically fix all our problems and become Scholes or Xavi overnight. However, I do think this Manchester United team certainly will play better with Cleverley in the lineup than without him.
Also, as King Eric has said countless times, and would no doubt say if he were on ROM right now, Tom Cleverley is not a youngster anymore. He has played in almost all levels of English football and is coming off a good season on loan as well. This is the final step he needs to take to establish himself as a force to be reckoned with. He was well on his way to doing that when that useless, oaf of a footballer Kevin Davies injured him. When he comes back, he will establish himself in that center and make it his own.
@Suprb_Utd thing is mate players like Modric wasn’t available,according to reports Chelsea offered a deal close to 40mill with cash and players,Spurs still didn’t budge.As i mentioned of a different thread is not quite as simple as making a bid and getting the player.
Great article. Sums up how I and many of my mates feel. I think Cleverly or any other new centre midfielder coming through is like a panacea for many of our fans. That can be very dangerous, but like the article says its not wrong to dream.
@Costas, Cedars and wayne. Cheers for the best wishes lads, flights all booked now head out in less than a month!
Wayne
To turn things around you have to have the players in the first place imo we don’t but what we do have is a cash pile I say use it otherwise it will prove to be a false economy.
Brilliant nap and a fantastic injection, starting to feel like a horse again!
NRD – Great news, where will you be staying? My brother lived in Tokyo and Osaka for a couple of years, heard great stuff from him…. Expensive as fuck though!
wayne – Do not do heroin buddy, but I am sure it has an amazing kick, why else would it be so famous! hahaha
Javi Martinez is a complete gun. We’d be super fortunate to get him. He’s a Park Ji Sung with an eye for defence splitting passes.
Really wouldn’t be a bad thing if we were actually targeting him in January
About the Jan transfer window. We know Fergie doesn’t like it and he also says prices will be jacked up but why handicap yourself? Theres only 2 windows a season and we’re crippling ourselves by stating we are not going to spend, so if we do the other clubs have more of a reason not to sell for a reasonable price.
I’m not worried about the creativity side of things in the middle, I’m not Andersons biggest fan but he isn’t a defensive midfielder we need someone in there even for a couple of years to do all the untidy work and allow Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher and Cleverly be more creative. Fletcher does get stuck in but lacks the discipline to play there if we are going to set up as 2.
@parryheid hi mate so what do you think the reason was for not making a move in the summer,did Sir Alex think Ando and Fletch could do a job with the addition of Tom,what’s puzzling to me all summer most on ROM thought we’d sign a midfielder.
To be fair Utd has had alot of injuries early,players been moved around,we all know a steady team starts with a settled back four,one area that Sir Alex very rarely rotates and hasn’t been the case this season.Also does this mean the end of Ando,Fletch at Utd.Everyone is waiting for Fletch to turn it around to the form a few seasons ago but it’s been a struggle for him,Ando is a very frustrating player beginning of the season alot of lads were praising him,now 9 games in alot are saying he’s just not good enough.
Lets assume we did sign wee Wes and lets assume we had the same electric start to the season… Of course it would be mainly down to him… Lets also assume it would have been wee Wes who was clamped down by the cunt Davies then we went on a bad run….We would have missed him?
We miss our wee Clev, its a fact
@Cedars, Spot on! That is exactly what I was trying to say on Twitterverse and ROM after the match. Sir Alex did not sign anyone because he hoped Clev would become our MF mainstay. Only he did not envision the fucking thug injuring our Clev like that. God, the thought of how much Clev would’ve contributed now combined with the fact that he was not even carded for the tackle is fucking making my blood boil. I need somebody (Vidic most probably) to do that thug next time like Keano did Haaland.
I can’t believe that Evans is being made a scapegoat when Nani and Evra were culpable too. For the 1st goal, Nani, who was tracking Milner’s run, “allowed” Milner to waltz away from him and under no pressure, supply the cross for Balotelli’s opener.
Evra will never be as steady and reliable as Dennis Irwin was, and his form over the last 18 months has been poor. A defender’s 1st job is to defend, and he has lost the plot as far as defending is concerned.He has no serious competition for the left-back position, and complacency has set in.
I also feel that Anderson is in the last chance saloon, and if he can’t crack it this season, I thnk he will be moved on
As far as Ravel Morrison is concerned, I have never seen a kid with so much natural ability.He has the potential to become the best in the world, no doubt about it.
Balaji
A few here still post their anger at Davies and rightly so….. The cunt did not require a Keano type tackle but more a Robbo one, i.e. career ending which leaves you with a smile on your face and no yellow card either as he was ‘too nice’
I view the January window differently. I don’t see it as a way to “fix things” mid-season (unless you have major injuries and simply need reinforcements). I see it more as an opportunity to get a jump on the summer window — to buy someone you want, rather than wait (and risk losing him to another club later).
We cannot really single out one or even two players for blame, every out field player had an off day… No spirit whatsoever…. With 9 players Chelsea almost got a draw at QPR, sadly they had what we lacked on Sunday and that it grit and determination
StatesideAussie
Who would we buy though my friend? Our current problem(s) is not having a certain player its more about leadership on the pitch….. Anyway its a blip that will pass. As painful as this fucking blip has been!
@ Cedars – Staying in Saitama, which is near Tokyo or part of it. Geography not too great I’m afraid. Been before, a friend of mine lives out there. Went in 2006 Roppongi has a great night life.
I liked Sniejder but don’t think he was the answer but was of the opinion rather have someone than nobody and he would have hardly been an unproven Djemba-Djemba or Liam Miller signing. Still need that anchor in midfield. Soriano is the latest name, will watch next time Villareal play in La Liga to see if he’s the real deal. Tiote, Cabaye even Phil Neville! Any of these to add much added steel too many attacking options in the middle with not enough emphasis on the defensive part of the midfield game. You can tell by the players body language they don’t like doing the defensive work.
Would have been a different story with him on the pitch on Sunday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBilBa5n2wY
Just had a text off a good mate of mine. His mate who he works with is really good mates with Tom Cleverley. Tom has text him to tell him he’s in the squad tonight! He didn’t say whether he ws playing or not but the fact he’s in the squad is great news. He also said that “The gaffer is in a foul mood” No surprise there then!!
Cedars
How was that fine round ass mate?
Wayne
Fist of we do buy in January pretty much every year I dont consider Smalling a January panic buy and Jones would not have been a panic buy on January past either had SAF persuaded Blackburn to part.We were in for Nasri but for some reason we wont face up City or Chelsea if they fancy our choices see Mata.We are the wealthiest club and if we wont compete then there is only one way and it isn’t up.As for Anderson I wasn’t praising him at any time and between now and January I hope we dont get blinded by the smokescreen that is Pogba,Morrison.Tunnicliffe et all.
NRD
Enjoy my friend, I am sure its a challenging move especially with the language barrier… Will be fun I am sure…
Regarding United I like your suggestion of a Phil Neville type player, I know what you mean and its what I have said many times… We do not lack skill, like fuck we do however we lack a leader out there, someone who will have a go at the players and drive them on…..Roy Keane would do nicely but we obviously cannot have him anymore… I look around our squad and cannot see that type of player..Does not have to be the most creative or skillful, just lead by example and spill blood for the team…. Perhaps Fletch will get there at some point
Costas
on the fletch goal thread…i saw you credited the cross to Silvestre for the goal vs Chelsea…but actually it was brilliant left footed cross from Ronaldo!
Cedars
Robbo always puts a smile on my face. There isn’t a chance in HELL they’d have beaten us with Robbo in the side on Sunday, let alone score 6!!
Mikekelly
Was sweet buddy, actually allowed me to touch it as I was dosing off, firm and round is what I remember! hahaha
Was accused by a poster the other day of being too positive here, ha? How else do we support our team? Anyone thinking I am not still hurting needs their heads examined, far worse than my kidney pain and that hurts as fuck
@ Cedars – I think Fletcher has too much quality to do that role. That virus seems to have destroyed him, he’s been getting outmuscled too often for my liking. Tiote would do the job at this moment in time. Although my stance is the same now at the start of the season. Either Play someone from the youth like Pogba or buy someone who can do the job. Kolo Toure started as a centre midfielder and then moved into the centre of defence at l’arse but we seem to have gone in reverse if we are going to use Jones for that role.
Hell, I’ll even pick Gibson ahead of Anderson at the moment if he’s fit of course. People on here whine about Berbatov slowing down our play, but nothing slows down play more than if your midfielder gives the ball away on a consistent basis in the positions Anderson finds himself in. Thats what has been happening since the chelski game. He needs to lose weight as well, what other excuse has he got for not keeping up with opposition players?
Mikekelly
You and I have a lot in common when it comes to United, always love chatting with you…..
Robbo on Sunday would have given half his body parts to ensure we did not lose. Its exactly what we lacked then, probably what we lack now… Will bounce back though of that there is no doubt
Positivity is the only way forward. I’ve drifted from angry to bemused, sad to confused, positive to dispair. I’m still bouncing between them to be fair, particularly after watching the highlights again earlier. A good display tonight and Sunday will go a long way to help restore parity to my messed up brain and heart!
Cedars … oh, I don’t have anyone in mind. I just saw some others saying we needed to go out into the market at the earliest opportunity, and was just commenting that I don’t see the January window as a fix-it strategy. I think that reeks of panic. I believe Sir Alex will work with what he’s got, and I think he should do that, for several reasons.
This is a transition period for us. We’ve all known that for some time, and we all knew it was coming for even longer. It’s not exactly a surprise. Sir Alex’s way of dealing with that is to bring a whole bunch of promising youngsters through, and that requires both time and patience. To rush out into the market now and buy a lot of players would be to admit failure on that — because if he goes and buys another boatload of youngsters then he is basically saying the current ones don’t look like they’ll make it, and if he buys more experienced players, then he is erecting obstacles that will hinder the young ones from coming through.
So I think he will persist with it, partly because I don’t think he is ready to admit that it won’t work, and partly because I think he still sees it as the best thing he can do for the club before he retires. If he can pull this off, the incoming manager will have a young, talented squad who are already “blooded” and already infused with “the United way”. There couldn’t be any better scenario in preparation for a new manager, imo.
But at the same time, I do expect he will become more demanding — not only of the young players, but especially of the older ones. It is the older, experienced hands who need to step up to the plate at times like this — to show that leadership you talked about. And if they can’t do that, then what’s the use of them? I do seriously think that what happens between now and next May is going to have a profound impact on some of the older hands at United.
I’m not saying that to pick on anyone It is simple (but brutal) logic: if you’re 28 or 29 or older, then your days are numbered, because you probably only have 3-4 years left to offer. And that puts the need to replace you into the same probable timeframe as the replacement for SAF himself. And I am totally convinced Fergie does not want to leave the club in a situation where it has to bring in a new manager and, at the same time, needs to replace a bunch of players who are at the end of their careers. This is where “succession management” is so difficult, because timing is everything. Having to replace the manager, and a bunch of senior players at the same time, is asking for trouble. It is too much change all at once. It also puts a huge responsibility on the club to trust the new manager’s ability in the transfer market.
Sorry mate, I’m rambling, so I’ll stop there!
Cedars
Likewise pal. We will bounce back and I can’t wait to return the stick I’ve been getting from my blue mates by the bucket load come May!!
NRD
Well said, starting to lose patience with Ando…. How many more chances does he need? As for Fletch I am sure he will come round, at least I hope he does… Just the sort of player we have lacked
I can’t see Fergie dipping into the transfer market in January…..coz it’d look like a come down from his “I’m happy with my squad” mantra. Could be viewed as a lack of faith in his squad.
Saying that though, depending on how we perform between now and January, he may end up making a move for somebody like Bannan (who I haven’t seen all that much of, but he’s looked bright whenever I have) rather than one of the exotic superstars who keep being bandied about. Purely because this would fit in to the “buy young potential” strategy we have.
IMO, Cleverley is the only midfielder who can offer us drive and penetration in the FINAL THIRD on a consistent basis. (Giggsy can also do the same but not on a week in week out basis, he’s an impact player so we can’t count him.)
Then we’ve got Carrick and Fletcher who are excellent players, but deeper. They’re better at breaking up the play, and particularly in Carrick’s case, distributing it. Finally there’s Anderson…..but as has been pointed out, he’s extremely inconsistent atm.
The only other player who can offer us consistent attacking drive and penetration apart from Cleverley….is Rooney if you play him in midfield. This is something I’ve not been a fan of tbh, I don’t see him as a midfielder (not at this stage of his career anyway). But it may be an option if we’re really struggling (i.e Cleverley isn’t available and Anderson is off the boil)
@Ancha. Indeed mate. You’re right. I always confuse that cross with a Silvestre cross that led to Ruud equalizing against Chelsea in 04. They are identical.
@Jim
Hope you are right. But with the amount of strikers that need a game, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was stuck with the CM shift again.
@mikekelly
I admire your masochism mate.
I still can’t write down the scoreline, much less watch it. But you are right. City had their lucky moments at 0-0 and 0-1. But the 2nd half defending is imo an example of lack of spirit and poor defensive preparation at Carrington. They defend as individuals. Not as a team.
Mike Kelly – good post – also went through the agony of watching the replay.
I think the fundamental problem at the back lies with Rio. He is “the leader” but man is no where near as mobile as he once was and needs to be to play at our level. As a knock effect on the players around him are not being proactive but are reactive. Evans and Evra in particular. Who is shouting at whom to provide direction – well answer is they should all be and they ain’t.
This shows from the back going forward – makes the whole team nervous – players are now considering what happens if they move out of position whilst attacking – in the past they were guaranteed cover – now seeing finger pointing.
Need to get the back two central defenders sorted out – for me has to be Smalling and Jones long term – with Evans as cover. (Definately do feel Smalling is more useful in the centre and is not that an effective option at right back). The rest then begins to fall into place – centre midfield becomes sure of what’s behind them and they are not looking over their shoulders at a what’s going on there and provides more confidence as an attacking unit.
DDG was left hanging on several goals – first goal he was unsighted – but nobody blocked the move or the shot (Rio/Smalling/Evans and Nani all can take some blame – when was the last time as a team we allowed that?) Your comments on the next five spot on.
Next in the middle first Rooney or Welbeck do have to show up and support there – next the wide men have to come inside more both in attack and when defending. We started off doing that but are now dead flat in the middle.
My other big concern is that several players will now have confidence concerns.
Really for me a 3-1 loss playing with 10 men – wtf we went “kamikaze” when Fletcher scored just makes no sense – even with our record it was idiotic.
SAF will give them a bollocking – the team will respond.
Next we have to start giving some of the youth a chance – and fast.
On a down side – City showed they do have a good squad and Mancini has got his dressing room sorted out. Regret they will get better.
UNITED 20/4/12 – 2012 (and maybe the Carling Cup)
StatesideAussie
Damn I love your posts! I agree Sir Alex will not panic buy, he never does…
Mikekelly
Cheers pal, my head is almost in the same place as yours… Got so much abuse in the last few days that I lost count! Fair enough though I have been dishing it out over the years
Is this Barry Bannan we’re speaking of?
@ Kanchelskis Thanks
Apologies to all , The dreaded Forgetter is getting better as the Rememberer gets worse . Yes Silva not Sanchez .
@Costas
Yes, but hope he shows glimpses of last seasons form today. I think he should start at everton, has scored on his last two visits there.
NRD
Not a bad call at all…. Make mine a Clev though
Would bloody smash that cunt Davies if I ever saw him, probably would end up worse in a one on one fight as he is fitter than me but I would sure cause some damage….
@kanchelskis – what makes you think bayern who actually are a massive club will sell one of their best players who is german, why would they? you keep saying buy this and that but never once have you thought about the probabilities of this happening.
@NRD
Yes, looks a bright prospect. And best of luck for Japan.
@Samuel – united WE stand
Yeh, apart from the bit earlier where I said ‘So hard to envisage him leaving Bayern though’.
Do yourself a favour in future and read what people have written before you have a pop, yeh?
Barry bannan is alright but fergie will want him to prove his quality in the league for a consistent and a sustained amount of time, bannan hasn’t done that yet although last season he played well against united, pulled the strings.
Our recent concern has been to replace Scholes but that is not the case…. We never replaced Keano, as a player we will never replace him but what we lack today is a leader on the pitch
Kanchelskis – fair enough, i don’t think i saw that bit, my bad.
The summer that Citeh captured the mercurial David Silva for £24m, we signed Bébé for £7.4m.
I honestly believe we got better value.
@Samuel – united WE stand
No worries pal.
I know deep down that Schweinsteiger is unobtainable. Even Sneijder was more likely due to Inter’s finances and the noises the player was making. I suppose what I mean more is that that it is in the mould of Schweinsteiger that we need a player.
I’ve never bought the idea that we need a creative genius working between the lines. Nani and Young have enough creativity to drift off the wings and offer this, not to mention Rooney when he drops deep. What we need is someone to win and keep the ball so that said players actually get the opportunity to be creative, rather than feeding off scraps.
Mercurial?
Hernandez, Smalling, Young & Jones will do just fine as far as I am concerned….
The Bebe is still developing.
@Jim
Hm, bit of a longshot. These days it takes injuries to 2 out of the 3 main strikers in order for him to start a Premiership or Ch.League game. That’s why I don’t think he has more left. Personally I feel that someone with his touch and control can alievate some of the pressure from our midfield and defence, but Fergie has made up his mind.
Nick Coppack just confirmed on Twitter that Tom Cleverley has traveled with the squad to Aldershot.
@Balaji
Great news. I’d be surprised if he starts, but if he gets 45 and looks sharp, I think he should start on Saturday alongside Carrick. That way both Fletch and Anderson feel the full consequences of their performances on Sunday.
@ Jim, cheers mate.
Scott Parker could have done a job for a couple of years for us while we wait on Pogba and Tunnicliffe to develop. That name was ridiculed before he went to spurs so we’ve missed that one. The two lads from Newcastle Tiote and Cabaye. De Rossi has been mentioned before, Soriano, Kagawa from Dortmund is meant to be shit hot but he is more attack minded. Yann M’Vila of Rennes and finally one player we were linked with heavily in the past but seems to have fallen of the radar Miguel Veloso.
These are just names, all internationals. Obviously don’t want us to sign them all. There are decent defensive midfielders out there.
This isn’t no knee jerk reaction, we’ve been lacking some steel since Rod Flanders got injured after the chelski game in 2008. I also understand that we are a team in transition at the moment but I feel you can’t get away with putting too many square pegs in round holes otherwise you’ll end up breaking the peg board.
Great news that Tom Cleverley is in the traveling squad. Half of me would like to see all the kids have a go, with maybe Berba, Owen and Vidic getting games.
The other, still well ticked off, side would like to see the entire first team from Sunday be sent out with message from the boss.
Whatever team goes out, they need to show skill and passion. I want to hear nothing of Aldershot giving us a good scare.
Comeon United. Show why you deserve the shirt!
did anybody read my post?
To sum up time to get rid of Rio & Evra, major let downs. They are experienced enough to know whats wrong and bad.
Give Ando,Evans & Others time, they deserve a chance. The older players don’t.
Rio thinks this is a retirement club. Slacking in hunger, talks the talk but then walks the walk very slowly.
Evra – He had 1 year to get sorted, still on the decline, looked like he was good again in the last few weeks but then proved to shite. At 29/30, Get rid after this season, cash in to Anzhi,Malaga, PSG or Real.
Build a new spine; De Gea, Smalling,Vida, Clevs, Carrick/Fletch, ???, Rooney, Chicha/Welbeck.
Sign;
-Jordi Alba to replace Evra.
- Javi Martinez (23) or Yann M’Villa (21)
- Goetze/Ganso/Hernanes to partner Cleverley or Ando.
Basically we need a midfield signing,even if they are cup-tied. Anything will do. Even Fuckin Cheick Tiote will do LOL.
Many say “Do not cripple Tom Cleverley with such high expectations” The truth is he is the only ray of sunshine in a dark,dark,soggy hopeless midfield. So Pressure should encourage him to become our best midfielder now. This midfield on its day is as good as Evertons Minus Arteta or Villa minus Petrov. Unacceptable.
It’s time we got ourselves a credible left-back to understudy Evra. Something tells me Evra’s not feeling enuf heat since he knows he’s gonna start every game if he’s fit.
What about that Celtic LB we were linked with? Izaguirre?
Clevs is a great player but relying on him to solve our midfield problems is plain stupid. We need a real gem like Silva or Modric that can relieve some midfield duties for Rooney so he can do what he does best, score goals. The midfield has been lacking for quite some time now and I feel for SAF when players like Anderson continue to fuck up when it matters most.
Clevs is a great player but relying on him to solve our midfield problems is plain stupid. We need a real gem like Silva or Modric that can relieve some midfield duties for Rooney so he can do what he does best, score goals. The midfield has been lacking for quite some time now and I feel for SAF when players like Anderson continue to fuck up when it matters most.
Also those calling for a new left back, I believe we have a potential first team leftback in Fabio. He needs to be given more first team action
@utd_fc, The Twins irritate me to no end. I know I absolutely should not say this, but how can you rely on a pair of players who cannot even last a full 90 minutes. Each time one of them play, they invariably end up with some injury or the other. Not only is it frustrating, it is also disheartening to see shining talents go to waste because of bodies made of glass. At least, at right back, we have enough cover with Smalling, Jones, Valencia, and even Fletcher. I think we have to start giving Fryers a go regularly at LB. He looked very impressive against the scum, and is a left-footed player which is hard to find these days. He is also nicely built and looks in solid physical shape. He should also be groomed as an understudy to Pat.
I was against the Young signing for one reason;
NEVER WALLPAPER OVER DAMP!
The blackness still shows.
Young took focus off our middle. We didn’t really need him but his signing was good business.
The lad however has made us play more openly and wide. By playing wide balls you need to have an excellent duo in midfield. Rarely do you find a strong Duo which is why most teams play 4-3-3.
How can Sir alex trust the likes of Ando & Fletch in the middle or even Fletch & Scholes last season. The only midfield I have ever felt comfortable with in the last 10 years is Keane & Scholes and Hargreaves & Scholes. We have neither 3 of them replaced.
We need ONE 5star midfielder ASAP to partner one of our current midfielders.
Tom Cleverley is now Tom Cavalry.
Balaji & Fletch
Charming, did nobody believe me earlier? ; ) I confirmed in my post earlier (15:22) that I’d had confirmation that Tom was in the squad.
@mike, My bad. I didn’t go through some of the posts earlier and must’ve missed yours. Don’t worry. By now, you’ve built enough credibility on ROM as an inside source, so I will believe you when you say such stuff.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I thought Park would have played in the Derby. Pretty sure he’d have helped plug some gaps and played well in the big games last season.
Also why was our Manager + Assistant being so lazy tactically and physically against Citeh.
Nobody on the touchline barking orders, bit ungrateful saying this but a younger manager or better assistant would have gone beserko.
I doubt the players give a shit they lost, the pay packet cheered them up. Fletch is hard bastard, love him for what he does, he looked genuinely hurt unlike Rooney (partying with Hart), Nani ( Partying with Mario).
We looked a joke ! I am insulted by the give up attitude shown. Where did that come from? Never seen that kinda crap before, No Defiance, no resistance.
The players need to to be chucked a boot at for this, the manager should remember how much of a tactical genius he is because we have lacked a tactical awareness all season.
4-1-2-3 vs Liverpool & a 4-4-2 vs Man City ???
Costas/Jim … re The Berb, I have come to the concusion that time is simply not on his side. Indeed, he is a good example of what i was talking about, with Sir Alex’s thinking ahead over the next few years. We have some hot young strikers who need experience, and who will probably leave if they’re not used. He won’t want to lose them, and it doesn’t do us or them any good to be sitting on the subs bench or in the reserves. To make progress and gain the experience they need, they need to be playing. And so, for The Berb, this can’t be good. As much as I like the guy, and as much as I agree we could use some of his talents right now, he can’t be anything more than a stop-gap solution. It pains me to say that, it truly does.
But the priority is that over the next 2-4 years, we need the new guard to be in place and firing on all cylinders. That can’t happen if we don’t use the young guys now. It can’t happen if they leave. It can’t happen is they stay but aren’t given the experience. Even if we could afford to wait, that would be bad management — because, among other things, there’s always a chance they won’t be up to it, and if that’s the case, the sooner we find out, the better. Because then, other plans have to be made.
Mike – I believed you pal. Thanks for the scoop.
@ mikekelly12 – I was surprised by no Park as well, he wasn’t even on the bench!! He should definitely start on Saturday.
Go and offer 20 million for Tiote. Newcastle are a selling club and we need midfielder. That beer swelling teletubby would snap our hands off, for that type of cash.
Can’t stand this footy manager crap. The team is the team, the manager is the manager and we are the fans. Hind sight is 20:20 and like it or not, we played like crap Sunday. We are the 12th man and the support was as crap as the team on Sunday.
Look to your own whinging and decide if this is the team for you. Pathetic suggestions about who we buy next don’t interest real fans. We have rarely if ever buy in the next transfer window so would you lot give it a rest. Even the WeeWes brigade has returned in the past 2 days. Give me strength. Raise your hand if you knew we were buying Young or Jones…….RIGHT.
Lets focus on our exciting players who are going to be wearing our shirt tonight. They deserve way way better. Comon U REDS!
Balaji
Haha, no worries pal, I was only messing. The good news is that he must be on the road to recovery to be involved in the squad.
I don’t buy into this “signings in January means we are panic buying” theory. Its no secret we were interested in both Nasri and Sneijder but for various reasons we didn’t get either. I don’t believe we’ll get anyone in Jan so lets wait till September 1st 2012 when the new midfield maestro doesn’t arrive as per last season. We don’t even sign unproven talent in that position yet have spunked away £20 million on Bebe, Obertan and Tosic since the last signing we made in that position.
Park is just the type of player we needed in the derby. We should have put him on that rat-faced cunt Silva, thus negating City’s entire creative fulcrum.
In hindsight, it looks like we took the Abu Dhabi Berties lightly. Let’s be honest though, the whole game turned on that sending off, so let’s not get too carried away with this power shift nonsense.
When we play them at Maine Road we should stick Parky on Dilva though. Better safe than sorry like.
NANA NANA NANA NA NA Tiote Tiote Tiyotay !!!
BA -NANANANANANANANA – Bannan Bannan
Phelan → Ole
Rio → Rodwell
Park → Kagawa
Gibson → Karl Henry
Evra → Alba, Not Jessica, Jordi
I’ve never seen this Tiote play but if he’s a hard bastard then he could be exactly what we need. Get him signed.
Rooney and Young good. Sell rest of team to sunderland.
I watch game with family, lose face very much. Why you no good at football game now? City player train hard on “hill of hell” when Utd player make sex with wife of brother, or many prostitute.
Manchester City kill every team like they kill utd. We not support number 2 team in china. We buy shirt of number 1.
Mr Ferguson need 15 new players. Not boring player from scotland hair red – exciting player who set fire to house and mafia trial like City player. Manchester utd shop here empty. You no sell shirt, you no pay bills.
When you american owner fly away in helicopter, it look very bad.
Fred
I heard that Park had just finished reading “One Day” and on the back of having watched “The Champ” was thought to be too emotionally torn up inside to be involved in the squad!
Remember when we had ronaldo and many said this team was as good as 99′. LOL
Enough of the joking around, I am only serious about my Rio,Young,Evra, Tactics & Pathetic midfield criticisms. Everything else is a joke….however we do need one midfield signing to strengthen the spine.
We’ll have to wait till 11 months to see improvements in the middle. Anderson’s form is worse than the stock market.
Now for aldershot, one game at a time with this aweful midfield, Hope Pogba plays.
Ive heard countless times from morons on here, and yes you are fucking morons (if your offended sticks and stones and all that, stop being a girl), that what we need in the middle of the park is a roy keane style midfield general. Looking around I wonder who is Citys hard midfield general. I also wonder who is Chelseas, sure they have Terry at the back but we have Rooney further forward. I wondered where is Barcas midfield general and even Madrids. I then think even more deeply and wonder who is Liverpools midfield general and who is Arsenals? In the end I realised why do we need one when nobody else has one. But hey it would be nice. A new Keane. Then I stopped and looked around me. The generation of men that grow up nowadays are sausage jockeys. They think that certain words are so profound that they should never be uttered for fear of offending. The big burly scot has turned into an imaciated rent boy sucking for fixes. The welsh man has dropped singing in the chorus to prancing around like gareth fucking homo gates and being the only gay in the village. The Irish north and south of the border are jet setters dared not to put on a pound incase they get charged extra from Mr Ryanair everytime they spread their utter tripe globally. No guiness for those boys unless they are abroad where they bury their chiuns into their necks to sound tuff saying o yee me laddy ool tirish drink l blak gooooooolldddd. The English are a bunch of fags intimidated by 12 year old gangs and adopting the mockney accent of lork stork an too smarking barras. So where we will find this Roy Keane Mk deu, I guess we will have to do what every other club has been doing the past ten years, take a trip to Africa (or France) and pick a man that doesnt care about yellow cards as he has witnessed machette beheadings. End up paying an African nations GDP for his services and watching the club footed imaciated furrow browed neandethal smash his way sunday league style into the referees book.
Yeah thats the way forward. well thought out lads.
Mike Kelly – Hahaha!
NRD … it’s no secret that SAF himself doesn’t fancy the January window. He has said so many times. As for Sniejder, apparently we did try, but who knows what went wrong? Were his demands unreasonable? Were we too stingy? I don’t know. But what I do know is that transfers are complicated, three-way deals and even if you can get two of the parties to agree, they can still break down. it isn’t necessarily United’s fault.
Nasri’s a whore. Apparently, a deal was basically in place, but Shitty trumped us. Again, I can’t say for sure that it happened that way. I can’t say if United handled it well, but I can’t say they didn’t, either. I certainly don’t think we should allow ourselves to be held to ransom, though.
As for Bebe and Tosic, those were clearly gambles. But then, what transfer isn’t a gamble? Even an established superstar is a gamble — you need look no further than the rent boys for examples. Torres, that Ukrandium cunt Shevchenko. Barcelona paid 46 million, plus Eto’o, plus a loan of Hleb, for Ibra, and how well did that go?
City’s – De Jong
Chesea’s – Essien, Mikel
Liverpool’s – Lucas, Gerrard
Arsenal’s – Song
Barca’s – Busquets
Madrid’s – Khedira
@ FletchtheMan – So what do you suggest hardly footy manager crap when people on here are asking for names in a defensive midfielder position? You look at what you have and if there isn’t anyone there in that position you look elsewhere. I was there on Sunday I made noise it was noisy in my section, I did my bit, I cant force anybody else to without obtaining a criminal record.
Lets not discuss stuff on a blog. Midfield is weak promote from within or buy someone fairly straightforward? But no lets all go hand in hand and sing Kum-ba-yah (well only some of us who know how to sing) and not think whats best for the team. If regulars want to know names of players who play in defensive midfield. I will give them names.
Real fans don’t care about signings? So when people were suggesting goalies to take over VDS, they werent real fasn. Oh no. PIG and Lindegaard were the future? Plenty of people inside OT singing Rooney against Bucharest in 2005 days before anyhting was even official. Yeah real fans don’t care about signings. Nonsense.
Notorious on the money! A real fan lol.
@ Stateside – I agree about transfers being gambles just think we should have taken one in defensive midfield. For the record if the rumours about Nasri are true fully back the clubs stance. I never wanted him at United, wWas just pointing out we WERE heavily linked with him. So by signing someone in Jan wouldn’t be an indication saying our squad is weak. I agree with what you’re saying about Jan window. I just think we shouldn’t handicap ourselves.
However if you remember the Tosic and Lljac (not sure if that was a signing or not) signings the December before Fergie categorically said he wouldn’t be signing anyone and yet 10 hours into New Years Day we were the first PL team to make signings.
This calls for a song… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWIZHxolI0
Fred … but not of those players is a Roy Keane. Or a Bryan Robson. Or a Cantona. Or a Scholes. Indeed, it is almost ridiculous to put “a” before any of those names, because they were each one of a kind.
It’s a little bit like Apple asking, how will we replace Steve Jobs. Er, you won’t. Not if you mean, like-for-like. “Where will we get another Steve Jobs?” Er, you won’t. Because there was only one. Same as there’s only one Bill Gates, one Richard Branson, one Muhammad Ali.
So The Goat is right about one thing. If you’re Apple, or manchester United, then you can’t have a “business plan” that depends on finding “another” of someone who was so exceptional as to be irreplcaeable. You might, if you’re lucky, find another person who is also exceptional, but if you do, he will be exceptional in his own way.
And I have always felt Sir Alex understands this better than anyone: that you can make plans for this sort of team or that sort of team, but in the end, you have to work with what’s available.
@goat am thinking may be we should give paul pogba a chance in the first team, the guy can be our next keano
Robbos and Keanes don’t grow on trees.
HOLY SHIT. i think i just found the answer to our midfield Problems. He’s 23, Plays for valencia, Argentine. Exquisite on the ball. EVER BANEGA!!! please Fergie PLEEEEEAASSEEEE go after him and not Sneijder. Lot cheaper and is everything we can ever hope for in our midfield. Storng on the ball can defend and is superb going forward.
Let me just give you a taste of what we are missing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5u0Fk0xpXM
One match and we’ve traveled back in time to the summer.
Remember . 6-1 win was not only a shock to us and the football world in general. It exceeded City’s too. They did not believe they had the potential to create a 6-1 plain and simple . A good team and a potential great side but as of now this shock elevation is not consistent with their own belief system .
Let them enjoy it we have enough times over the years and we all know we will have our day….
Notorious … no worries mate. It’s just a full and frank exchange of views, and it’s healthy. I certainly don’t think signing someone in January would indicate we are weak. But I was starting to think some on here wanted us to go out and spend big in January because … well, just because. Like I said, if there’s someone the gaffer wants, and he’s available in January, then it would be foolish to wait until summer.
Banega will bang you out.
Get him signed Fergie, FFS.
Man Utd pair Rooney, Chicharito among Ballon d’Or nominees =). A Mexican pride Javier.
City will be laughing on the other side of their faces when we rock up to the Etihad Stadium with our new midfield of Tiote and Banega in April.
LOL i sound like a retarded boy in my last post about banega but the boy is just that good. I hope we don’t go for sneijder who cannot defend to save his life. Banega is better option and let’s do it quickly before Shitty or madrid come and poke their noses in our business again.
@Fred, It seems you are also back to summer mode as well.
Thanks for the news, Soren. What an honour for Chicharito!
NRD
Agree with your support point mate. I hate all that “The support at OT was shit” “If you were there you should be as much to blame as the players” nonsense too! A few people have let loose on here with that bollocks this week! Myself and 100′s more (Didn’t look round and have a good count but guessing) were giving it plenty on Sunday and giving it after the final whistle too!! I don’t think some people realise how hard it actually was on Sunday to keep belting out the songs whilst every one of those six goals rolled in, each one like a dagger through the heart but we carried on. Like you said, we can’t physically force people to sing. I said on an earlier thread how embarrasing it was singing “We’re Man United, We stay to the end!” with all the empty seats around but what can we do?!
@ Fred Lol – Actually clamed me down a bit. Never realised the Biggie Smalls track sampled Duran Duran! Seriously guys transfers are a part of football. Not looking for the next Keano or the next Robbo (neither who came from our youth system btw) just someone who gets stuck in without converting someone out of position.
We have players coming through who aren’t quite ready yet. Throwing them into the deep end may affect their confidence if things go bad. So just get someone in to fill the gap in the meantime? What were Laurent Blanc, Henrik Larsson and Andy Goram? Signings of the future? No. Stop gap measures.
Could this be our team, post-January?
DDG
Rafael Smalling Vidic Evra
Banega Tiote Sneijder
Nani Rooney Young
Well?
Good shout Fred. Watch though, we’re not real fans talking this way.
Only joking FletchTHEMAN! 
Biggie was a big Duran Duran fan!
MY team in January Hopefully.
DDG
Rafael, Vidic, rio/Jones/Smalling, Evra.
Nani, BANEGA, Cleverley, Young
Rooney
Welbeck/Chicharito.
4-5-1. So we just need one signing and we are good. step forward Banega.
Lets not do an Arse and go and buy an Arteta on a knee jerk reaction. We need a quality player in the centre, but i’d rather get it right at the end of the season than get it wrong in january.
The team has been crying out for midfield quality for 3 years but somehow Sir Alex has done nothing about it. The truth is – we lack quality in midfield and this becomes evident each time we play a very good team. Tom Cleverly is a top talent but he would not have made any difference on Sunday – Fergie’s penchant for workmanlike players is another thing – For God sake, we have too many workmanlike players – second rate players who are better off as squad players rather than first 11 starters. Players like Young, Fletcher, Carrick, Evans and Anderson should not be in the first eleven- they wouldn’t get into the first 11 of almost all top sides in Europe- correct me if am wrong. Our attack will do wonders if only we had a decent midfield behind it – but alas, we become too predictable cos we lack flair and imaginative midfielders, and so all teams have to do is double up on our wingers – and that’s game over. The midfield needs to be addressed and nothing we say can change that. Why didn’t we sign a player like Mata, Martinez or even the young Canales – instead we went for Ashley Young who is a very limited player. We have a lot of good but very limited players like Valencia, Fletcher, Young and a few others – we need graft, craft and imagination – add to the players we have already and this team will be superb. Just 2 or 3 signings max. And we do need a left back as Evra needs to be benched – he has been dire since last season. Rio as good as he is I think is past it. Vida+Smalling is way to go. United always bounce back, the team is good but for us to conquer europe, we need to have better quality in midfield than what we already have, and that’s the plain truth.
Notorious … I could see the sense in that sort of signing, a stop-gap measure to tide us over, with no one under any illusions about the purpose or objectives.
Banega will probably end up at Madrid, along with Goetze.
This my team for the new year;
De Gea
Jones Vidic Smalling Fabio
Nani – Red Life – Cleverly – Young
Rooney – Little Pea
I’m wondering if someone who plays, and is really good at, Football Manager can actually use it to become a great football manager in real life. Like someone who plays online poker competing at the World Series of Poker for the top prize.
NRD Cheers mate. Always a fan and true red. But this summer whinging was over the top for me and then we had our best start in years. Few injuries and we are back to being crap? Don’t think so, but thats my opinion. Not saying we don’t need singings, but practically guarantee we won’t bring in a major change in defense or mf in January. If you are asking about a general concern about our transfer dealings, I would agree. But am pretty well pleased with DeGea, Young and Jones, and admit them all being a surprise. As was Javier Hernandez the year before. Think we are both saying the same thing honestly. I can get into the transfer hype as well as the next lad and contributed several opinions about keepers. I was only correct about one thing, we weren’t going for anyone under 6’3″ and that was true. As to who it was, think very very few people had DeGea at the top of the list.
DDG
Rafael Smalling Vidic Fabio
Carrick
Nani Young
Valencia Rooney
Wellbeck
Where’s sachu? He’d love this kind of talk!
Balaji – of course that can happen; where do you think Andre Villas-Boas came from?
If Fred, although we know that goes to Messi, Ronaldo or Inesta, is good news. I hope to play this night Tom Cleverley.
I am not familiar with Banega. However, according to wikipedia, Everton tried to buy him a couple of years ago but the move failed due to issues with getting him a visa. And since then, his international career has not progressed (which I understand is one criterion for getting a visa).
@mikekelly12 – Exactly, can’t go to war with my own fans every game I attend. Watching United live is one things I truly love. The buzz I get some people pay £40 a g for, I want enjoy myself not get into arguments with fellow reds. Still getting abuse today will get plenty more of family tomorrow as its Diwali and have to see family most I don’t want to see as I’m leaving for Japan soon. Fucking hurts. I don’t know how you rewatched the game, I had my eyes shut for cit-ehs 5th and 6th goal and have avoided all replays and will only turn on sky Sports at 7:44 today.
@ Stateside – Thats all we need mate, big signing in Jan unless it’s financially viable would be very dangerous. Fergie is excellent at these types of buys and if he misses out doesn’t pursue them. Once he missed out on Di Canio he didn’t go in for him again. However if he has someone in mind long term lets get it done before the summer transfer window opens instead of waiting a few weeks before its shut.
anyone got any views on Ferdinand….been talking to some serious football fans and they all say Rio is a crock now…..and that their teams WOULD not want him even at 1.5mil (Villa, Wolves, WBA & Portsmouth)
Soren – of course it will go to one of those guys, but it’s still an honour for Cheech to be on the list of candidates.
Tiote over Banega. Tiote is premiership proven. Good chess player, I heard?
have cut all contact with football and media since Sunday, needed to take a break to have a clear mind again and now am reinvigorated. this defeat was harsh, very difficult to swallow but as i said last time the united spirit has take over and am sure that each one of us is feeling this blazing fire now . As a wounded animal we are back again, not to seek revenge but to show the world and all the abu that we are not everyone we are UNITED, its not just every team, its MANCHESTER UNITED. We needed this reality check, however hard it is, it can only bring good in the long term. today our enemies are enjoying this defeat but this same defeat will come and taunt them in the future. remember 6-3 against southamptom 1-4 against liverpool, we all know the history after.GGMU
I think we might just start to see the importance of a carrick in midfield. He barely goes forward and does what he is asked to do. So it’s almost like we are playing with Five defenders cuz Carrick sticks to his task. Same cannot be said of anderson who refuses to run back when he loses the ball. Attacking is not ap roblem for United. DEFENDING is the issue here. we used to be known for our defence until this season started. We have to go back to stellar defending. If it means leaving Anderson on the bench then so be it. I’d rather win 1-0 than win 5-4.
I was recording the match (which I always do) but deleted it immediately (which I have never done before). My son wlaked away from the TV after the fourth goal. After he left, I called out to him, “Fuck, they’ve scored again.” He said, “What? Five?” And I said, sarcastically, “Don’t worry, there’s still time for a sixth.” And there was. Fucking hell.
Say what you want about Carrick, but I think when the Cleverely-Anderson axis is unavailable, the default back-up plan should be Carrick and A.N. Other.
Stateside – that explains what happened on Sunday, YOU jinxed us!
If you’re absolutely right Fred
Fred … I take full responsibility, too!
As usual!
I’m expecting a phone-call hair dryer any minute.
@ FletchTheMan – We shouldn’t spend big in Jan but spending big is £20 million plus these days. I’m surprised you didn’t see the Young transfer coming that was such a badly kept secret. The De Gea one was obvious to me but then every time I listen to Ballague what he says usually comes true. Especially in regards to United. The summer on here was awful think mainly down to boredom, the squad needed tweaking and we didn’t address the one position that needed strengthening was pissed off about that.
Don’t think we need wholesale changes either, have enough in defence, still have De Laet and Wooton to come back, Zeke Fryers looked solid vs leads, we need just one player, I remember when the window closed I thought we missed a trick with Scott Parker. He would have been ideal had him for 2 years in that time Pogba and Tunnicliffe would definitely be ready. Rumours have it Pogba may be pinched by l’arse if he doesn’t get games. I’m hoping thats true so it forces Fergie hand to play him.
NRD
Tough ask but I had to do it. As you well know things always look different on TV to the way they do at the ground, depending on where you sit. I just needed to know exactly what happened. My head was spinning that much that it wasn’t til I watched it on TV that I realised their 4th came from that Rio back pass off the pitch and what followed looke 10 times worse on TV. Still, it had to be done. In a weird way its acted as a healing tool. Don’t feel as bad somehow. Good luck in Japan by the way.
While we’re still in summer mode, has anybody seen how Sanchez has been getting on at Barca! Was he not the prize pumpkin in this summers merry go round?!
LOL Stateside!
NRD….. Agreed on missing out on Scott Parker….even if it was short term it would have suited us…..
His head looked a bit like a pumpkin, that’s for sure.
Come on guys, I’d take a 6-1 defeat to Ciddy any day over the ignominy of signing Scotty Parker. We would never stoop that low.
Seems to be a team sheet out that is being twitted. Not sure about this but here it is
Amos, Fabio, Jones, Vidic, Fryers, Tony V, TOM CLEVERLEY, Park, Diouf, Owen and Berb
Can anyone confirm it?
Not sure if the team has been released yet, however, just had a txt from my pal who tels me Clevs is starting tonight and you can get him at 14-1 to score the first goal!!
Welcome Red Nation,
Hello RoM
Nice one FTM and MK12.
That team again, arranged into a formation:
Amos
Fabio, Jones, Vidic, Fryers
Tony V, Tommy C, Parky Ji, Dioufy-D
Owen & Berbie Doll
Fletch
Can’t confirm anyone else but I can confirm Cleverley is starting. Surprised he continues with Diouf? Just not a big fan?
Diouf hooked after 60 mins, nailed on.
wee Clev is back! Now I can die in peace
Berbatov WILL score tonight!
@ mikekelly12 – I had a good view of the 4th by that point people were leaving around me so was already stood up saw the backpass spun round in disgust then it goes in. Shocking that was. As per Sanchez he tore his hamstring early on in their season for Barca so jury still out. Thanks for the best wishes.
@ Fred – Disagree with you pal, seen a lot of spurs games this season he’s looked good. We need to have for humility towards opposition players at times. Some of the stuff we said about cit-eh players and look what happened.
Like the look of the back 4. Could be one for the near future? Wonder how these fellas would have done against city on sunday?
Mike – If Diouf impresses tonight he could get a permanent move to Aldershot in January. That will be Fergie’s thinking, I’m sure.
I would carried Parker to ot on my back at least he would tackle and not give the ball away.
NRD – it was tongue in cheek really, but I still don’t think there would have been any point in signing him. He’s no better than anything we already have imo.
Fred is a nut case, just been confirmed by unknown sources… Love him to bits though
NRD
It was hell wasn’t it!! Sanchez, the poor dear!! On to tonight then. Any news on the bench?
Good evening lovely Red Devils around the world,
MikeKelly12,
yeah mate, i m all geared up for the game now,
this is Manchester United, same mistake never happens twice..
Mike – as long as none of them got themselves sent off, I’m sure we’d have been fine! Vidic is prone to that sort of thing though, unfortunately. I cringe when I see him grabbing handfuls of opposition players’ shirts in and around the penalty area.
Probably reminds him of the safety blanket he clutches when he’s watching The Notebook.
Fred
Lets hope he has belter then pal!!
LOL Mike
Fred
HAHA…. He used to have a Torres comforter for those nites in with a good book. I guess Evans will get himself a Ballotelli one!!
Dedicated to our lord and saviour, Tom Cleverley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ImCpNqbJw&ob=av2e
*nights*
@Cedars, As usual, you’re too late to catch on. Fred’s insanity was already confirmed during the madness of the summer transfer window.
Well I have read almost all except 40 or so posts. Red Nation can not bait anyone in a debate.
Man Utd is the Coke of sporting clubs.
Replacing a great is the imagination of the non participant.
This subject is broached every 3 months or so.
YOU DO NOT REPLACE A:
Duncan Edwards
Sir Bobby
Sir Matt
George Best
Dennis Law
Robbo
Bruce
Ect.
Ect.
Ect.
You just move on with the players on hand and new Legends reveal themselves.
Drugs, booze or money does not change people, but reveal who they truly are.
Shit happens to every one, the question is HOW DO YOU RESPOND! SAF HAS ALWAYS RESPONDED!.
Zibbie, I’m a Pepsi man.
Evening Zibbie…
Fred
Nice tribute…was that Diddy walking through the United changing room after the derby???!!!
Hahaha Mike
Zibbie, are you having a pop?
NRD mushi, mushi.
Travel well and enjoy the indigenous treats Japan has to offer.
Happy B-Day Gibbo
There is one John Wayne, one Clint Eastwood, one SAF and one Keano.
Man Utd will always be looking for the next Lil Pea and Smalling.
I like Pepsi better as well.
Hello Mike Kelly.
Fred we call it pop in the Midwest. Not Soda, hehehe
When some one finds a good feed, please feed me!
Heard it from a very disreputable source that NRD is going to Japan to tie up the Kagawa deal.
Team confirmed by Andrew (Tuffy):
Amos, Fabio, Jones, Vidic, Fryers, Valencia, Cleverley, Park, Diouf, Owen and Betbatov
Get stuck in lads. Great to see Fryers and Amos.
There’s only one Zibbie.
Guys Which channel is showing the match.
Fletch
Cheers pal….any news on the bench?
Tufty’s just got that off here!
Next he’ll be telling us that his top ITK reckons United are in for Tiote and Banega this January.
Good bench as well
DeGea, Vemijl, MKeane, Pogba, WKeane, Morrison, Cole
Like the bench alot. Looks like alot of reserves will have a good chance.
Comeon U Reds!
Sabada
Its on sky sports 2 over here pal.
@Balaji
Yes the twins are prone to injury but I feel ability wise they are both top notch. Anyways the point I was trying to make is that at this time we need to be investing in our midfield. We’re still relatively covered in defence, so we shouldn’t be looking to spend more money on fullbacks at the moment.
by the way,
since when does Balaji and StatesideAussie started posting one liners and two liners
Hello CedarsDevil,
good evening my red buddy,
how was ur injection and how was ur supposed to be medical date with your lovely nurse?
Can some1 explain to me how Zejki Fryers gets into the team tonight seeing as he has been injured for 2 weeks with whiplash and only started traing 1 or 2 days ago when Nemanja had played a full game for Srbia, a CL game(well most of it) and had been traing consistently…and he wasn’t picked by Fergie for City!???? I just can’t fucking understand it!!! We needed captain Vidic on Sunday and we missed him dearly!!!! Still sooooooooooo gutted he never played!!!!!!! Another example I want to point out is Rioferdy5 is injures for a good 2 months…he starts against chelsea last season without even playing 1 competitive game for us so I just don’t get Fergies logic in not putting Vidic ahead of Evans when he knew we needed him so dearly! Evans career has been ruined by Sunday! I really feel for the lad! Donno how he will bounce back from it to be honest! Horrendous day for us reds. So that’s why I bring up Zeki tonight. Good for him though. Anyway delighted Clevz is back in the mix but I fear that there is too much pressure + expectation for the lad. He’ll cope though I have no doubt but don’t all think its just going to be smooth sailing with him back. He’ll have his ups and downs for sure. Can’t wait for the game! Come on the lads! MUFC
Interesting line-up. Trouble is, we’re on a hiding to nothing. If we do well, cunts will say, what did you expect? And if we go like shit … well. Best thing to do is hammer the bastards. As far as I know, the highest ever score in a professional football match was 149-0. Think we can better that?
Thanks Stateside.
New thread with the line ups.
i know it was a bid derby win and shit happened,
but these very cunts like Summerbee have gone over board and writing shit..
god given right to win trophies? fucking we worked our asses and cover every blade of grass to achieve what we have achieved and what others can only dream about..
cunts remain cunts,
http://www.espnstar.com/football/premier-league/news/detail/item696085/Summerbee:-United-facing-end-of-era/
Fletch
Loving the bench mate. Really hope we see Will Keane, Morrison and Pogba! Shame we can’t put them all on.
Fred
Not sure if you’ve seen it but confirmed by Andrew (Tuffy): Tiote and Banega heading to Old Trafford for £40m in January!!
Well very good to see Fergie sticking with his principles regarding these early cup games.
Amos Diouf and Frier and then mostly senior lads needing game.
Average age of the starting 11 is 24ish and bench is round about 18. Should be a win ofcourse, but always important to stick to good principles. Good for team spirit.
Sadly, only 3 subs allowed.
Max,
make no mistake, Fryers is some player and we also have to look at the opposition and how strong they are,
agreed we got rammed on Sunday, but that doesnt mean we should panic,
whatever happened, Sir Alex will not change his principles and once he decides he will give chnace for the youngsters in cup games, he will do so irrespective of preceeding events and outcomes,
time to look forward and time to be positive..
Hey Zibbie,
how u mate?
long time…
I’m fine 1878, hope you are well.
COME ON UNITED!!
Thanks mike
Cheers lads. Scott just posted an Aldershot blog so I will check in over there.
Looks like rain for the away support. GetStuckin reds.
just watch the match video and take lesson learnt from that..glory..glory..glory
dannysoya – agree with you on Ever Banega – I have posted the same comment several times here already. Saw him play here in the under 20 a few years back (same team as Aguerro).
Quality/reads the game/can tackle etc. But UCL Cup tied and likely will cost a mint.
We do need to bring on the Pogba’s/Tunnicliffes etc
UNITED 20/4/12- 2012. (and maybe the Carling Cup)
@ statesideaussie ur son has a nasty name. I mean, who would call their son Fuck?
Well the bearded genius seems to get everywhere, decent article mind, plenty of waffle and dreaming just what’s needed when the reality doesn’t look at all good.