Where’s it all going wrong?
Obvious problems
1. Defence
Our first choice goalkeeper, Edwin Van der Sar, has played in just 5 of the 18 league games we’ve played in this season, meaning we’ve been playing our second/third choice keeper for 72% of the season.
Our first choice centre half, Rio Ferdinand, has played in just 5 of the 18 league games.
Ferdinand’s first choice partner, Nemanja Vidic, has done much better on the injury front, missing just six and a half games due to injury, meaning he has played 64% of our league games this season.
Jonny Evans was the cover for both these players and filled in superbly. But then he picked up an injury in November and has missed our last 6 games and won’t return until 2010.
The right back position was Wes Brown’s, but after playing for three games in August, he missed all of September and pretty much all of October, returning for the last game of the month. He came back as a regular in November and the start of December, but then got injured and as so far missed two games this month.
John O’Shea took Brown’s place in the team when he was injured, but picked up an injury in the first week of November, and has missed our last 6 games.
Gary Neville has continued the traditions of the past season or two by picking one injury up after another. He was not first choice but hasn’t even been available as cover for most of the season, and last played at the beginning of December, before hobbling off with half an hour played.
Rafael and Fabio have been injured more often than they’ve been fit. Rafael has played in just one league game this season and is apparently supposed to be fit for the last game of the year. Fabio has played in just two games this season, coming on for the last half an hour against Fulham on Saturday.
2. Players out of position
Darren Fletcher had arguably been our most important player this season, breaking up play in the centre of the park and protecting our defenders. The injuries at the back have meant he has been pulled away from the middle of the action and shoved in at right back. He’s done a good enough job there but has been caught out a few times with crosses in to the box. But the real problem is he isn’t in the thick of the action anymore.
Michael Carrick has done surprisingly well in the centre of defence in my opinion. Not famed for his tough tackling when playing in midfield, he’s done a pretty good job of sticking to his opponent and sticking the boot in. But his lack of experience in this position can be telling, like when he went AWOL for Fulham’s second.
3. Disorganisation
Van der Sar has played in 5 games this season, Foster in 8 and Kuszczak in 5. Even without all the changes across the back four, the changing of the goalkeeper brings all sorts of untold disorganisation and confusion to the back. Van der Sar is so commanding, whilst Foster and Kuszczak are still finding their feet. Different keepers do things in different ways, claim different balls, punch when others would catch etc. The defenders don’t know whether they’re coming or going and that insecurity leads to panic and mistakes.
More worrying problems
1. Wayne Rooney
If Rooney plays well, we play well. If Rooney doesn’t play well, we can struggle. He’s currently the third highest scorer in the league and as dedicated to the cause as ever. But his form is hit and miss and that is not what you want from a player you’re relying on to score the bulk of your goals.
As a team, we are not playing as well, and that can have a bad effect on Wayne. He tries to absorb the pressure, coming deeper and deeper, getting more and more frustrated, and leads to mistakes in his own game.
2. Lack of fight
Against Aston Villa and Fulham, we seemed to resign ourselves to the fact we weren’t going to get anything out of the game. There was no desperation, there was no extra effort on the 50-50 balls, there was no hassling and harrying the opposition when we weren’t in possession. As a team, we need to work harder.
3. Struggling with creativity
Not enough chances are being created of late. Teams know how to play against us, sitting deep, and we’re struggling to get behind them. With Carrick and Fletcher taken out of midfield, we’re having difficulty playing down the centre, which puts the pressure on the wings. Antonio Valencia has incredible speed and enjoys taking his opponents on, but his crossing is poor. Park Ji-Sung is returning from a lengthy injury but crossing has never been one of his strong points. Nani is capable of delivering a deadly ball but his judgement isn’t great and he’s certainly fallen out of favour (irreparably?) with the manager. Ryan Giggs has played some great killer balls this season (9 of which have finished in goals, an assist record only Cesc Fabregas can better so far this season) which gives him an advantage over other players, however he doesn’t have the pace. Gabriel Obertan seems to be shaping up nicely, with great speed and the ability to put a good ball in (as Michael Owen benefited from last week), but his experience and decision making holds him back.
In conclusion, the only problem isn’t the fact our defence is a shambles due to injury, but this has enough knock on effects to account for the majority of the problems. With our rivals not having the greatest of seasons either, there’s no doubt we’d be keeping up nicely if not for the missing players and the effect their absence has on everything else. We wouldn’t be flying, but we wouldn’t need to be. The difference could go to six points today, but when considering how poor things have been at United of late, it outlines Chelsea’s failings in not being miles ahead of us.
So, we’re just going to have to sit tight, hope that Ferguson puts Fletcher back in midfield and puts anyone else at right back, and that the defenders return sooner rather than later. It’s not going to be pretty at times, and the past couple of weeks have been anything but pretty, but we’re still second in the league, in all competitions, and we have the greatest manager that has ever lived. Let’s count our blessings and hope for a better time in 2010!
Man Utd News 24/7
*Gulp*…
Was wondering how you were gonna make me feel better in this awful time. You did it though, let’s hope for an Upton Park upset today, and roll on getting our players back and getting the results in.
Better to have players out now than Mar-May I guess.
“If Rooney plays well, we play well. If Rooney doesn’t play well, we can struggle.”
Disagree, Rooneys played loads of games this season where his been poor but we’ve been good.
Like i said in the live blog thing when we get everyone bck we will be back in buisness, its only since we’ve got these injurys that we’ve been dropping points, nothing to worry about, the leauges in the bag.
Upton Park Upset . lol
Thats not gonna happen. West Ham are rubbish( Hope i am wrong)
The last thing i want is us Going to Feb still 6 points behind(we could be further back) and chasing Chelsea as we are used to dictating the title race by then.Spot on though about lack of creativity and fight which is surprising for us under SAF. Our teams are built on having a winning mentality. Cant say more. Scott has summed up very nicely.It is worrying when your manager says in mid december that i hope this defeat dosent cost us the league with only half of the season gone. Things are not looking good on the injury front either. The Hull City game looks a difficult one now.cant say confidently we are gonna win that one.
The sad fact is we all know we were not a one man team but till we dont win trophies without Ronny it is not going to convince anyone.
Good article Scott.
We were up against a in-form fulham side away, with our two best midfielders playing in defence. A few years ago, it took a goal from ronaldo for us to win but with a fit and strong team. This season is so bloody competitive. Every game is a cup final. We have to face the truth, teams don’t fear us anymore, and ooze with confidence when playing us. Some of our performances this season, along with yesterday’s, have been frankly shit by our high standards. The only consistency we have seen this season: away fans. Completely outsung fulham’s, even though we were getting battered and were playing woefully. BUT, no team has ever won the title in december. We still have a long way to go, and once we get all players back, we will be more consistent. It could be worse, it could be better. Fergie knows how to get utd back on track, hopefully we’ll see the utd of old in 2010.
Happy Christmas everyone an may 2010 be a fantastic year
@ Arni, don’t count on it. they have been poor this season. However, chelsea’s last game of the season is playing Fulham, who will not make it easy for them. They’re more likely to drop points against Fulham than Westham.
Jack
Are you crazy?. The leagues in the bag. Its good to be optimistic( although i am not) but saying the league is in the bag is a bit ridiculous. we are 3 points behind,should be 6 in another 3 hours. dont have 7 defenders, things arent looking good on the injury front, dozens of problems as Scott is suggesting. Agree on Rooney though he has been poor in quite a lot of games. Cantblame him though. Most of the time we are wasteful in posession and there are long periods for which he is deprived of the ball so he has to come deep to try and help us create chances.
B E L I E V E
Midfield not good enough, scholes is past it, gibson not upto it, neither are park or anderson (don;t get me started on nani)
Not sure what is happening with berbatov is he fit or not?
should have gone for a striker, a left winger and a creative central midfielder in the summer
Scholes is not “past ” it as you put it. Had an awful game yesterday but has been excellent running the show in alot of the games he has played.
Summed up perfectly Scott.
May 2010 will be a fantastic month. We’ll be League Champions.
The game yesterday was a great way to pass on our World Champions mantle to Barcelona , wasn’t it?
PS: Scott, that medal on the top right is outdated now.
Don’t worry guys, everything is going to fall into place soon, and we can take those 2 titles off of Barca’s hands next year.
We have great defenders. We are very unlucky with all the injuries. So it goes.
We also have great strikers, but they are not getting good enough service. They also need to drop deep and focus on winning the ball more than usually and this leaves them a lot less efficient.
This problem has simply become more obvious with Fletcher missing from midfield. And with Hargreaves an uncertainty, we desperately need new manpower in the midfield. Most of the midfielders are either underperforming or unreliable (the older ones). I really hope this gets addressed in January.
nice read I agree with this
The obvious problem
First choice defence gone
The more worrying problem
Second choice defence gone
The outcome:
Yesterday and last week – funny we could have done with two strikers last week and just one yesterday – but that’s football and we should not feel sorry for ourselves
Chin up together – we’ll be just fine in the end we have 20 games to readdress the balance.
january is the time where things have to go right, with Chelsea losing 4 of their best to the African Nations Cup (possibly), it is the best time to stage a comeback. I think Fergie has to go out and spend on defenders and a goalie, but also on some more creativity up front. give players like obertan a go because i think at the moment we are running out of steam with the attack. playing all 3 strikers did not seem to me as a very effective method either
@jack
agreed with u about rooney. to be our best player, he must be able to command è type of anticipation è players & fans look to for some magic & leadership quality to drag us out of bad situation. was disapointed he doesnt appears to have that quality. it seems to be è other way round to what scott says, he shines when é team play well. i’m not slating him. he’s é best forward we have & a very important player. his passion & hardwork is second to none. but not é cantona or keano criteria yet.
disagreed with u regarding “è league is in è bag” mentality. just make me wonder if some of é players are thinking or feeling é same way as u. it’s a very dangerous mindset. perhaps, we bag é league without playing at our best last year resulted in this complacency? dont get me wrong, we definetly still very much in é hunt for è title, luckily cos é other team are not taking advantage of our poor plays. but “in é bag”?, far from it jack. judging by our performance so far, do we deserve to be champion? at é way we are playing, i hope we leave é championship thoughts & hoping chelsea drop points mentality out é window first. let’s concentrate & focus on improving our own games first. when we start playing well, è points & results will come. qhen we happy with ourselves then we start thinking abt è title & chelsea.
I know we are missing a lot of players and players playing out of position but yesterdays performance was a disgrace.A midfield of Scholes/Anderson/Gibson should really have created more than what we did yesterday.It was very painful to see Scholes struggle yesterday.He has been my idol and to see him struggle like that was unbearable.He has had a few good games this season but we should not be so reliant on him.Gibson does have a great shot but other than that he does not do much in a game.We cannot just have a player playing in the first team because of his long shots.I am not saying he will not make it.He is just not ready yet.Anderson is a player who i really want to do well.His energy is something which always is present just needs to work on his scoring.Also yesterday i was shocked by the amount of long balls we were playing from defence and hope Rooney or Owen get to the end of one.I have never seen United resort to long balls like that before.Feel bad for Owen though.The guy gets one start and then does not get a single chance due to midfield performing badly and not creating anything.The main problem we have is that we have a lot of players playing central midfield position (Giggs also included) and only Giggs seems capable of creating anything.(Though i still believe Scholes on his day can).This has to be Carrick’s responsibility but he has played out of position(and when played in position he has not been great).We need a creative central midfielder and we need him quick.I hate to say this but we need to buy in January if we are to have any hope of winning the Champions league.Premier league???Thankfully every other team is equally crap as well
in all honesty does ji sung park have any strong points?he is shit. berbatov can fuck off too. I think we need to look at getting someone one loan for defence or buy someone because ferdinand is becoming more injury prone than michael owen ever was. Gary neville ain’t gonna make it past this season.wes brown has always been injured for that last 10 years except for 1 season.fabio and rafael seem to get an injury every 2 weeks. john o shea and johnny evans ain’t back till january vidic has been picking up little injuries i don’t think he is being given enough time to recover. Also we need to sign a striker (edin dzeko) who is big strong good in the air works hard. Also either get nani in the team more regular lets see if the boy can produce after 7/8 matches in a row. Unfortunatley he is injured at the moment. so he will prob get sold after his outburst a month ago.I think that when we play 4-5-1 fergie should have obertan and valencia operating the wings 2 guys who can drive at a defence
I think we need one more CB as cover as I find it hard to see if Rio’s form will get any better this season. It’s not helped either with him being distracted with his various businesses outside football. I want the midfielders back where they belong and Brown should be at RB if he’s fit.
Honestly, some people need to wake the fuck up and stop coming out with all this bollocks like ‘Believe’ and ‘it’s all going to fall into place soon’. It’s our attacking not defence that has been the main problem. Too often this season we have scrapped together points, lacking consistency and threat both in midfield and up top.
I don’t know what’s gonna happen to us in the next games and I hope we get over this period of frustration and injuries but I can’t wait till the next Fulham game at Old Trafford, Liverpool and Burnely @@ I want revenge! Oh and Chelsea
Good analysis. Here’s hoping the coaching stuff do some soul searching too.
Scott i wanted to ask you if you plan to have any polls given that it’s the end of the decade. You know, like team of the decade, player of the decade, flop of the decade, etc etc.
Oh you can tell that a transfer window is on the horizon:
http://goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2009/12/20/1699142/manchester-united-to-make-50m-double-swoop-for-valencia-duo
@ jack
i agree with you mate about rooney.
i think its more worrying when giggs doesnt play bcoz nobody else seems to create anything.
dno wt anyone else thinks but id say giggs and fletcher playing in the middle together is key. they compliment each other perfectly
Wouldn,t it be better to bring on some younger talent in a the defence….
ie. teen centre halves and pack the midfield a little more tightly…..
we must have more specialist centre halve in the training squad……
I say give them a go and put some steel into our defensive midfield set up…. stop the fuckers from pushing up on us…..
ps. Wasn,t it good to see the ratmunchers get beat at Pompey yesday….
Ok I cant wait for the poll
My Team of the Decade
Van Der Sar
Neville Rio Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Scholes Keane Giggs
Rooney RVN
Surprisingly that was not tough at all and i am guessing this will be the team for most fans.
Player of the decade:
This is a tough one….Guess it will go to Giggs but Ronaldo made me think a lot
Flop Of the decade:
Djemba Djemba(this was a tough choice too)
Match of the Decade:
Well as far as i can remember the 7-1 trashing of Roma and the Moscow final
Excellent analysis, especially this part, which has had me increasingly worried as the season has gone on!
2. Lack of fight
Against Aston Villa and Fulham, we seemed to resign ourselves to the fact we weren’t going to get anything out of the game. There was no desperation, there was no extra effort on the 50-50 balls, there was no hassling and harrying the opposition when we weren’t in possession. As a team, we need to work harder.
Yeah, I like Costas’ idea of the polls.
Scott, please do it.
devil@singapore & aig is god
i’m a confident guy
i think were win it, i think were going to win alot of trophys this season, im likeing our team at the momment, got a good squad there and ovbiously the best manager, i think chelsea will bottle it
when we were playing shite in the 1st half, i was thinking, on comes ronaldo, step up ronaldo.. and he will weave magic and might turn things round. but in fact, we din have anyone who had ronaldo’s magic.
yes we might have been scoring in many areas this season because ron left, but we still lack the magic. defense wise is a bag of shite…
hope chelsea loses tonight…
Sometime back I had blogged that this season will be decided by how we play what many people were calling have run teams. Unfortunately I am sad to be proved correct. I am not very sure if we will have a top four finish!
We have a lot of injury issues which is for everyone to see, but frankly the players who are in the park are not trying in anyway to win really important games. We give up so easy these days, are we really playing like champions?
Which obviously begs the question do we deserve to be champions of the league. As of now its a big NO!
Even when we win games its not very attractive football and its more an individual brilliance at times.
Baring a miracle or harakiri by Chelsea we are way behind them and do not look like improving.
There is also a lack of any leadership in the team, weather on or off the field.
To make matters worse Sir Alex seems to running out of ideas, could it be worse for us. NO!
But I do believe and hope we will fight, winning is important but what is equally critical is we keep playing the UNITED way.
I noticed Berbatov wasn’t even mentioned in this article. I can understand why because he has been like the invisible man this season just like last year. With Ronaldo going we needed our so called big guns to step up to the plate and Berbatov is meant to be one of them. I said it before and I’ll say it again even though I will get crucified for it but Carlos Tevez gave far more to the United side than this embarassing waste of money.
Scott
One of the main problems you highlighted was the lack of fight – I think most people on here will accept the odd result going against us but we need to see the team fighting for those results – not just laying down and surrendering.
I feel we dont have the toughness in the team and a bit of the old keano spirit would not go amiss
We will never die.
DebRed – Not a top four finish? Oh come on man. We are not way behind the rentboys. They ain’t exactly cruising at the moment.
Also who are these “creative midfielders” we SHOULD buy?
Off topic – I see that toerag Terry cunt is now splashed over the tabloids for doing dodgy deals with “Tony the ticket tout”.
Ingerlund Captain? Fucking laughable.
Expect a real Rentboy wankfest if they win today. League sewn up and Rentboys the winners.
daniyal – Despite what the Ronaldo fan boys think he DID have poor games too. Sick to the fucking stomach of hearing about that cunt.
It’s true that at the moment, based on our current squad, Rooney is probably the best player that we’ve got. And if Rooney plays well, we play well. If Rooney doesn’t play well, we can struggle.
Even though currently Rooney is the third highest scorer in the league, however, the fact is half of them come from penalties. Drogba (Chelsea), Torres (Liverpool), etc. are top scorers who are not penalty-taken. So, it doesn’t mean that Rooney is in the good form at the moment…
In fact, I think we really need to add a couple of world-class players into the team. The selling of C. Ronaldo and the departure of Tevez prove to be a very big lost. Valencia is not good enough and will never be considered as a world class player. Owen used to be a top class striker, but at the moment he’s just a fair player. Overall, our current squad is very much weaker than the last season team that won us the EPL champion…
We cannot rely too much on Rooney, as he cannot always provide goals for us when we are in critical time. Unlike Ronaldo, Rooney is a hard working rated player, but his form has not reached a so-called world class player. We need to bring in top class striker like Dzeko, Benzema, etc. who are skillful, tall, quick, and always score goals for the team.
THIS SEASON WE ARE VERY MUCH WEAKER THAN LAST SEASON…. LET’S HOPE THAT THE SIGNINGS IN THIS JANUARY WILL MAKE US STRONGER…
“Valencia is not good enough”.
Are you serious?
@ Gary – the way you put it is way over the top but berbatov has not been value for money in my eyes I dont care what anyone says, even though it is a hard pill to swallow and say I agree tevez has ben far more impressive in a united shirt than berbatov has been.
– after anoter terrible performence and a phew players decline, my money is on a clear out in the summer. I dont think neville either ferdinand and vidic will be here, he will not sell both but the ferdinand and vidic patnership is an end of an era, in midfield I can see scholes and nani leaving, scholes has too much pride and love for the game united in general to keep playing if he cant keep up his standards, scholes knows he has not been.
– sorry to say folks there is no doubt about it berbatovs time is up fergie has lost total faith in the guy. berbatovs confidence is shot, he is not going to get any better. I dont care what anyone says no one can say he has been great in a united shirt. When berbatov clearly cant handle the pressure of being a united player it has destroyed the guy who has always been fragile mental and confidence wize, and in the summer I can see 3 players signed.
I love the way all the negative people hide as long as we win, and the second we lose or play badly they are back on here in a flash saying “We’re not good enough.” or ” We need to buy someone.”.
WE DON’T NEED FUCK TILL SIR ALEX THINKS SO.
theboogeyman when you lose 3 0 to fulham something is terribly wrong with the side.
Could be worse ……… could be Liverpool.
Happy Christmas my fellow Reds and it aint over til its over.
Thanks to Scott for all the efforts he puts in to this blog for all of us to vent our spleens. It doesnt do itself and I am sure there are days when Scott just couldnt be arsed – but does it anyway.
I am sure some people will moan if you dont blog on Christmas Day Scott.
God forbid they have to talk to the wife and kids for a whole day.
ALL THE BEST MY FELLOW REPUPLKANS AND HAVE A COOL YULE.
Right, the drinking begins……. see you all in 2010
@theboogeyman: I don’t see anyone hitting the panic button, but if you think all is rosey at United than you are clearly going with your heart over your head. Rooneythenewking pointed out a lot of areas that need adressing. Accept it United are going through the beginning of a transitional period, so prepare for things to get worse before they get better. I ain’t complaining because we have been spoilt on success but that’s just the way football goes.
Maybe the gaffer needs to try this for time being:
(where the Defense is ‘weak’ and two holding midfielders are tough)
————Kuszczak————-
—–Fabio–De Laet–Evra—–
———–Carrick—————
—–Fletcher–Gibson———
Valencia-Berbatov-Obertan-
———–Rooney—————
Or:
* Bring Tom Cleverley back from Watford in January (?) for defensive backup
* Also give Oliver Gill a run?
And:
* Practice more shooting in the 18 yard box instead of silly passes or flicks
* Make free kicks more lethal (IMHO, Valencia and Gibson could take the responsibility in the long run given the power in the shot)
* Harass the opponent more- more rough and tough to get over rough opponents like Villa, Chelsea, Fulham, Burnley
* Nani can still make it- the gaffer should let him prove himself
* Strikers need to shoot more-Rooney does a bit, Berba and Owen not so much
* Play Man-to-Man
Rooney the new king, Gary, there are some people hitting the panic button mates.
I’m not saying that all is perfect, I’m just saying it’s not all that bad. Like RCWI says, it could be worse, we could be Liverpool.
There’s nothing terribly wrong with the team, RTNK, it was just a really bad day at the office.
I’m just voicing my opinion that we are good enough and that we don’t need any new players until the greatest manager of all time decides that we do.
B E L I E V E
Gary sad fact they are, all areas need addressing for me ferdinand should get the chop not vidic but ds vidic want to leave, but inside 2 years both should be moved on. the wide areas still need addressing, and united need a striker help rooney out.
Manud ave 2 work harder 2 retain the championship
YES westham 1-0 up
@theboogeyman: As much as my concern for United this season, I think our one saving grace is that Arsenal and Chelsea (despite the brown nosing they have received in the media this year) aren’t very good either! Que that just as I say that Chelsea go 1-0 down to West Ham!
I think we do need to sign some players, and I think Fergie wants to but it’s about finding the right players for the right price. He knows he blew a fortune on Berbatov and won’t make the same mistake again.
Support the SHIRT not the Results. B E L I E V E
Kill that motherfucker Ballack!
Yes Scott (a true red always) – you do a great job with this blog – it is kinda renowned. I’m one of the RedRants blog faithful, and RedRanter like yourself Scott is a top top bloke – United to the very core. Happy Christmas Scott and New Year to you and yours, AND to ALL Man United fans and bloggers wherever you are. Old Trafford – always our 2nd home! Cheers everyone and have a good one.
@Rooneythenewking: Spot on, you forgot to mention the centre midfield area as well. Fergie doesn’t know his best pairing, and unbelievably Darren Fletcher has turned into our first choice centre midfielder. I’m not having a pop at Darren because he is a hugely improved player and has proved himself on countless big games in the last couple of years, but it doesn’t say a lot for the competition in the middle of the park. Anderson can go for all I care! Simply awful!
They probably won’t win the game, but the hammers have done well so far in the first half. Was drogba even on the pitch? Best striker in the league, my ass.
IsaidSo , Read Carefully and Everyone Else on Republik Of Mancunia and all Reds everywhere Happy Xmas and a Happy New Year. Special thanks to Scott and all the regulars on here. Even though I work all day I still must spend 75% of my time on here. Great blog. Keep it up Scott. Here’s to a Successful 2010 and more trophies. Just need Fergie and the staff to get things sorted.
Scotty Parker ripping up the rentboys over rated “powerful” midfield. Come on Irons.
Heres hoping west ham can go 2 nil up 22 seconds into the second half
Gary – Alright mate. Fletch is a top box to box midfielder in his own right and STILL only 25. Much more to come from Darren. He would get in most top teams in Europe.
King Eric, you call Ronaldo a “cunt”. Presumably this is because he didn’t stay at United until he was 40 and continue to get picked out of a combination of sentimentality and having 1 good game in every 4 ?
Think we could use another “cunt” right now.
Come on you hammers …keep it up please !!! 45 mins to go and it won’t be that bad fellas
FusilliJerry, don’t have a pop at our legends.
FusilliJerry – Get over him. Just sick of hearing about him in the media and everywhere. He was a “cunt” mate in his last season or so here.
If you are referring to Scholes would take him all day long.
Ronaldo was a great player for United but no sorry he behaved like a cunt last season. Moscow histrionics, petulance, lieing about him staying prior to Rome in his “self interview”, throwing top down.
@King Eric: Yes Ronaldo could have handled certain situation a lot better than what he did, and the club will go on without him to bigger and better things, but at the same time Old Trafford is certainly a duller place without Ronny. How I miss singing Viva Ronaldo and just being used to seeing Ronny pick up the ball and go on one of them runs.
Eric – think I might be more over Ronaldo than you, hence me being able to unconditionally appreciate what he did at United, despite his ego running away with him.
Scholes and Neville and yes Sir Ryan Giggs should be making way, not making the first XI, it’s not a good sign.
Judging by some of the comments and in the wake of our results the following conclusions can be made
1.Even if we finish in the top half of the table it will be a great achievement. Anything better and it is a bonus.
2.Scholes is past it. He should call it a day immediately.He was awful yesterday and his performances at West ham, Stoke and in most other games where he was good count for nothing.
3. Valencia is a poor player and not united class. He scored 6 goals but that counts for nothing.
4. We should buy silva, villa, aguero, dzeko and whoever is available. maybe we can then qualify for the champions league and challenge city and chelsea.
5.Sir Alex Ferguson dosent have a clue what he is doing.He has been LUCKY for 23 years to win all these trophies and now his luck is running out.Maybe we should go for Mourinho before it is too late.
Thank god there are people Like King Eric, Costas, ghtt around. Feel much better and optimistic reading to the comments made by you guys.
I think you you lot are great, on the whole you have cheered me up, wishing all utd fans a happy Christmas and a title winning new year. Come on you reds. A new player, midfield attacker, in Jan defenders back and we will be on track again…..
I hope that West Ham can get a result today. And given that Chelsea’s next two games are also tricky, we could cut down the difference.
However, i am sorry to say that this is more good news for Arsenal than United at the moment. It’s true that the top 4 are dropping a lot of points this season, but we have to start looking inwards and solving our own problems. Chelsea and Arsenal are as only as good as United are bad. Hopefully, we will get a healthy back 5 soon and the other two will get into their own crisis.
i always read this blog every day…
and one thing i found interesting maybe annoying was that when losing suddenly they were many new people come in and bashing the player,manager,tactical…slashing berbatov…slashing rooney…how we miss ronaldo and cuntevez…wtf
if berbatov was that poor do the best manager in the world wont notice it…he pay ridiculous money for this guy for a reason,…he know better…
and on who to buy Sir know better so stop your fantasy manager game suggestion for awhile and be patient please…
winning 3 title in a row is great enough…so sometime we need to get to feel how is it to be a loser again so we can come back stronger…
by the way…other team are crap too…this season are the weirdest of all the league history…we play like crap…rooney play like crap…berbatov play like crap…all the defence player were injured yet we still 2 in the league…so anything possible…right now i tought that RVN comeback in january will not be ridiculous at all…
Drat. Soft penalty to Chelsea.
Corrupt officials to Chelseas rescue again.
Costas
There goes the result out of the window. Fair enough though. It was always going to be difficult to expect anything from West ham.Especially when Chelsea can always count on the refree to help them out like today.If its 6 points till the new year and with everyone back we should be able to mount a serious assault.Just hope the players returning dont need time to settle and can hit the ground running immediately
Thanks AIG. Your comments are also very insightful. Don’t get me wrong. I am also a bit sceptical about certain things this season, but we have to be careful not to go overboard. If we are going to celebrate any trophies this season, it’s by this particular bunch.
England’s number one goalkeeper can’t save a Lampard penalty 3 times? Where is Shay when you need him?
The whole team was awful but I want to know why Rooney is always singled out for criticism on here when he doesn’t play well and berbatov is not. rooney has proved himself at united. berbatov has not.
and i don’t see why rooney should be responsible for the bulk of the goals. I actually think that is unfair. Did we not pay 30 million for Berbatov? Is he not a striker? So should he not be scoring more goals and easing the pressure on Rooney and helping the team
@AIG:
At least i hope they get the draw. It’s sad to see West Ham lose the steel they had last season when Zola took over. Probably another case of new manager, new attitude.
You are right about our injured players. I think one return per game is the way to go. In the VIlla game Brown and Vidic were both rushed back and their partnership was a tad rusty. However, they haven’t been out for too long. It’s O’Shea, Rio and Evans’ returns that i am more worried about. Their returns will take plae 3-4 weeks before the MIlan game.
what a shit decision by the linesman, how can he call that decision
It’s probably been asked, but:
Reckon we’ll sign some new defenders when the window opens?
Spencer –
1. Rooney is meant to be our centre forward, further up the field, and is the penalty taker.
2. Rooney starts every game. Berbatov doesn’t.
3. Berbatov has missed a month of the season through injury. Rooney hasn’t.
For these three reasons, Rooney should be scoring more than Berbatov. If you take away Rooney’s penalties, he’s scored just 4 more goals than Berbatov in the league, despite Dimi missing all of October.
The lad Diamanti looks a decent player.Great pace and a ferocious shot. Has been impressive tonight as has Scott parker.Expect a late Chelsea winner and the tabloids tommorow to crown them the league champions.
Mike Dean is a stinking cunt!
how is that not a pk against carvalho
we could probably get matty upson in jan with west hams money worries. there is definately an over reaction on here about yesterdays game, yes we were awful, and that combined with the injuries caused yesterdays defeat. we do need a couple of players but its fact there is no value in january, like a couple of people have said, its a transistional period and we need patience. when everyone is fully fit and performing there is no doubt we are capable of going on a long winning run.
Ricardo Carvalho is a cunt. Clear penalty denied for West Ham. Talking about assistance from refrees, how much can you get?.A lot if you are Chelsea and none if you are United
ref tried to ruin micky silvestres life yesterday
1. we didnt buy world class players, wich I understand. Price for players are, i wouldnt say unreal, they are stupid. SAF is not stupid to pay someone more than this guy worth.
2. We dont have 2 or 3 players who can change the game in the opposite direction. Rooney have to do everything. Midllefield…we cant wait them to do everything, that is why we have attack.
3. I think that Rooney get use to it, to go deep for ball, and forgot that his job is to score, not to do middlefild or defense job.
4. This squad is good, but not good enough, i mean it is tight for premiership title.
Thank You West Ham, Alessandro Diamanti, Scott parker and the rest. Great performance .Great spirit
Draw at upton park, thank f*ck!
thank you hammers!
maybe you lot will signphil senderos in the transfer window lol, only jokin
Fact is if the referees and linsmen got half of there decisions right this season we’d be topppppppp, its getting abit ridiciolous now with all these referees, there all shit.
But i liked Capello s comment, when he asked himself with journalist s, how come Owen socre 3 times, and next game he is on the bench. Rooney plays always, no matter how he is playing, and Berba. If Berba doesnt fit in the sistem, doesn t fit…sell him.Cheaper solution (owen) sometimes is better.
Scott the Red with ronaldo gone players like nani anderson berbatov rooney etc etc need to step up, rooney has done for a lesser extent but nani anderson berbatov have not been value for money.
the only upside to this terrible weekend for united is chelsea drew.
Thank you Zola, Parker, Upson aтв the whole West Ham team. 4 points diff. Better than 6.
Phew,I hope we can just get somehow get the league Back into the hands of our captain.Now I MUST ask you guys,
Do you think we need a buy in the market?
aig alex is god – LOL. Haven’t read your post))
We owe one to west ham… but seriously, it seems like this years title is haunted or something, it looks like nobody wants it! If it weren’t for the injuries we’d be doing a bit better, and, with chelseas form recently, we’d be top of the league or at least a lot closer to them by now. But that’s football…
Aren’t we lucky? Should’ve been a second peno though for west ham against that scum carvalho..
Can someone knock some fucking sense into the Premier League Season
1. We beat Wigan 5-0; They beat Chelsea 3-1
2.Chelsea beat fulham 2-0; we lose 3-0 to them
3. We hammer West ham 4-0; Chelsea are held to a 1-1- draw
4. Liverpool struggling throughout the season when it is expected that this is their year.
5.Arsenal too have had unexpected results.
Refs are pro Chelsea. Only fools can deny that. Their penalty was never a penalty. The guy took the ball cleanly.
Despite everything that is going on with us this season, with decent refereeing in Premiership, we would have been top of the table.
Credit to West Ham for making our yestaerday’s defeat slightly more bearable.
Chelsea have the luck , we dont . What a crappy penalty , so soft . Its bullshit , the only reason they might win the league this year is cause we are in transition and have just lost the best player in the world .
Wheels are coming off at Chelsea in there last couple of games.
Lost to blackburn, lost to City, drew with Apoel, drew with Everton, beat Portsmouth and drew with West Ham.
They have Birmingham next who are doing well.
I can see us being top in a couple of weeks aslong as the referees get off there dick.
Well Jack, we’re not doing too well ourselves aren’t we?
Kudos to West Ham for the life-line; against all odds and defying all logic.
I think that the situation Scott has outline calls for two scenarios:
BEST-CASE SCENARIO – TheLads are able to stay close to the top over the next month and maybe even close the gap. Injured defenders return. Edwin discovers fountain of youth. Berbatov/Rooney axis clicks. Valencia uses his left foot; Nani/Anderson develop consistency.
WORST-CASE SCENARIO – more abysmal team-performance like yesterday; Rio/Vidic/John O’Shea/Hargreaves/RedNev/WesleyBrown/JonnyEvans don’t regain consistent match-fitness. Edwin feels his age and calls it quits. Giggs and Scholes hit a wall and lose their edge. Berbatov gets more time on the pitch to fart about doing sublime – but irrelevant – displays of skill. Valencia/Nani/Anderson continue to be consistently inconsistent.
Is the glass half-full or half-empty ? That’s why they play the games but, for sure, if the best-case scenario comes true (and I’m a guarded optimist) then this season will rank among the greatest managerial feats of SAF’s long, illustrious career.
I said it before in the last few posts and am saying it again. We need/must/should buy in January. Manchester United is a big club, and big clubs need big and massive players who perform week in week out. When one big player does not perform, other big players carry that burden the other player is back in form or vice versa.
I have been a fun for 16 years am only 23 and during the time we thrived, what I just mentioned was the case. I do not doubt the commitment, effort and passion but quality is quality. The players we have are immense and very good players but not massive. The few high quality players are still developing Anderson, Wellbeck, Da laet, Fabio, Rafael, Macheda, Gibson are not yet ripe and they’re going to be world class in the future.
We need an X factor, clubs no longer tremble at the thought of facing united at the moment. The thought of AC Milan, Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Pato, Huntelaar. The thought Inter Milan Eto, diego milito, maicon, ballotelli, cambiasso,snejider. The thought of Barcelona… where to even begin, Messi, Henry, xavi, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic. Real Madrid, we all know that story, sends shivers down anyone’s spine just looking at the squad lineup.
Bear in mind am speaking of attack.
At united? Rooney,berbatov, Valencia, nani,,obertan, carrick….,Anderson. Don’t get me wrong I have faith in these players but at this stage faith is not enough. Rooney right now is our biggest threat but he needs help so it’s either we buy or somehow someway the other players step up and take responsibility.
Against villa we lacked cutting edge, wolves…c’mon a bunch of reserves, against Portsmouth two penalites got the ball rolling. No matter how much you will cuss, deny or be downright stubborn, Ronaldo at times carried that team when it was crunch time and closely carrying that weight equally was rooney and the rest of the team. The league has changed its not about being good enough but being the very best. I accept that the defence is in tatters, but today we could not do anything each time we had the ball, we gave it away needlessly, we had no ideas in attack. And to be beaten by Fulham?? Fulham of all teams?? My heart would be better had it been everton, villa or one of the top four but Fulham???
We need to buy!!!
the criteria is simple, it has to be someone with experience (as we already have an abundance of young talent), creative and can change games (somthing in the vein of david silva, arshavin,joe cole,modric,), and can help with the goals. Someone who is proven!!!sergio aguero is not an option, i watch la liga and he is progressing but not consistent, the last option for me would be david silva, he has a great footballing brain, passes well, can finish, handles aggressive tactics well and has experience at the highest level champions league, world cup, Euro’s etc. This variety in championships means such a player has been against different types of opposition of different quality and can adapt well.
Other players to entice, Gonzalo higuain(scores goals for fun and known to be that player that can win you a game), David Villa, diego milito but we need someone or two soon. If we need to spend let us spend it, thats what a budget is for to be spent for the allocated period, the more we win the more money will come. To win big sometimes you have to spend big but wisely of course.
Thats what it will take, if you have other suggestions they are more than welcome but fact is we need an x factor and we need to buy
We are a very good team, but we need to be a fantastic to be the very best.
MY BLOOD IS RED, MY SOUL OLD TRAFFORD, MY HEAR IS UNITED.
ONE LOVE, ONE LIFE ONE UNITED
I disagree with some of the comments about a lack of fight. I think we have fight still in the team but it is playing out of position. Fletcher brings that fight in midfield as does Vida. I agree that we must get Fletch back in the center so he can give us that bite we need in the center. For now Scott’s right, we have to sit and wait for the injuries to recover and hope we can cover the frailties for now.
FuckRafa – I agree with that lineup except I would switch Carrick and Fletcher around and Rooney and Berba around. Berba is so good at holding the ball and Rooney can get more involved with the build up.
I do agree with those saying it isn’t panic time but rather it is time to realize we are a different team right now. Fergie has had time to evaluate some of these young players, will know now who can move up and who needs to move on. I think Nani must go since he isn’t featuring and we need to reinforce our back line. With that money, plus the money we saved on the kid from Serbia, we should be able to bring in a defender of decent quality. Sol Campbell is not the answer but certainly Hangeland of Fulham could help or Davies from Villa wouldn’t be a bad addition either. Abroad in the eredivese Ron Vlaar for Feyenord has impressed me when I have seen him play, Roberto Canella from Getafe in Spain, Simon Kjaer from Palermo, or Ezequal Lavezzi from Napoli.
United must strengthen the defense, not only for now but for the future. We need another future back then just Johnny Evans.
Just after watching that chelsea match there, terrible decision they got for the penalty but how many times have we said that this season?
But looking at chelsea i think they’re there for the taking in the new year (i’m more worried about the decisions they get than them to be honest). Lets face it they’re practically playing with a full squad (minus Essien) and they already look like they’ve peaked. If we had a full squad available and had the chances to move clear that they’ve had, i reckon we’d be out of sight by now.
Towards the end of game as well where we’re famous for bombarding teams and turning 1 point into 3 the chelsea players, i wont say looked tired but definitely didn’t have that extra bit of energy to take the game, where as with everyone fit I know for a fact we do, just not at the minute for obvious reasons.
Needless to say i’m feeling 100 times more confident than I was yesterday, we’ve had a shit december and had a terrible time with injuries and players not being fit but it wont last forever and hopefully not much longer! Come january it’ll feel like we’ve about 10 new signings after being so used to not having our key players so that should drive everyone on and put shits up the rent boys!
If we win our next 2 match (which even with the injuries we’d expect to) I see no reason why we can’t go on an unbeaten run and pull this back asap. Like I said, the league and chelsea are there for taking! Keep the faith.
denton davey – another epic! but too many ifs. if you consider the second option we can say it about Chelsea or any other team. but i don’t see an immediate improvement and it means you are right about Fergie. he has to figure out the best way possible to use the players we have at our disposal. or maybe it will all suddenly click in the 2010 part of the season.
hurr
couple of fit defenders back and were back in buisness, chelsea have started off well in the last couple of seasons and then fade out just like now, they still got to come to old trafford aswell
Carvalho? I missed that. How about tiny tears langing at Faubert only to escape with a yellow! And you hear the commentators praise his fighting spirit. When Rooney does it, it’s reckless, when Terry does, it’s fighting spirit!
@AIG: I think Arsenal have probably been the more sane from the lot! They have dropped points, but from games you expected them to. Anyway, now they are in the title race as well. And given that Chelsea are running out of ideas, i think the New Year could find all 3 teams very close. But first’s thing first. We get the Serbian murderer back and beat Hull and Wigan.
Well, as with the story last season, all the big teams lost points together.
West Ham 1 – 1 Chelsea
A bad day just got abit easier on the eye
I would like to add one or two more things. We seem to always play better after New Years and hopefully with the return of defenders that will occur.
Secondly I do think we need another top quality attack minded player. Not sure who that could be but I think a younger player who isn’t cup tied would be preferable. There are some young players in Italy who could help like Cassano, Morimoto, Pazzini, and Hamsik. But as always in Fergie We Trust.
kylelaw84 @ 19:32: “But looking at chelsea i think they’re there for the taking in the new year (i’m more worried about the decisions they get than them to be honest). Lets face it they’re practically playing with a full squad (minus Essien) and they already look like they’ve peaked”
I’m also beginning to harbour similar sentiments – and their next two games (Birmingham away [Birmingham ? ffs !!!!] and then Fulham at home) could be quite tricky. Let’s hope so, eh ?
Right now – a week before Xmas – TheArse look like being dark-horses but they’re not playing particularly well, either.
So, it looks like a wide-open race and IF most of UTD’s “best-case scenario” comes through then SAF will be a happy lad.
we need to be optimistic.we just need the defenders back and then we can roll on from there.if all are fit i think we can finish the season as no 1 irrespective of the perfomance of the rent boys….we’re have been shit but its due to the injuries.remember chelsea were crying when carvalho and terry were injured.this season they have been shit as well.luckily.once all are fit i think we can win the league and have a crack at the CL….
It’s all so predictable. United lose, and out of the woodwork come all the complaints- and the same old ones: We miss Ronaldo, we miss Tevez, Tevez is better than Berbatov, Berbatov is a waste of money, we should have bought said player, etc. etc. Let’s put a few things in perspective. We are missing an extraordinary amount of first team defenders. This is a huge anomaly. How often could you say United have been missing EIGHT (Van Der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic, Rafael, Neville, Brown, Evans, O’Shea) first-team defenders? How often have we had to use 2 centre-mids as the central pairing? Fletcher, arguably our most important player this season, is totally played out of his position and therefore unable to patrol the centre of the park like he normally does. A beating like this was bound to happen, the magnificent result against Wolfsburg masked the injury crisis (and yes, this is a crisis). Also, fair play to Fulham and Roy Hodgson for their success, which is very deserved. It is embarrassing to suggest that they didn’t deserve the 3 points yesterday and even more so to hear people say things like, “when you lose 3 0 to fulham something is terribly wrong with the side.” Yes, something is terribly wrong, we are having an injury crisis. This has nothing to do with Ronaldo, yet when we lose, everyone clamors about Ronaldo and Tevez. When we win and thoroughly dismantle teams, where are all the Ronaldo posts? It’s such an easy excuse. Tevez finally decides to score a few league goals, now all of a sudden he is worth his absurd price tag? He is not worth it, so says Fergie. Move on! Of course, the comment that is most predictable is the “Berbatov is a waste.” The lad doesn’t even play in the first half, isn’t on the pitch for the 2nd goal, yet somehow yesterday’s performance was his fault. It’s truly remarkable. I agree that he has to contribute more, but it’s comical to suggest that because of a poor performance (when he is not even fully fit yet), it is his fault and he should be sold. I would suggest everyone to calm down, realize how lucky we are that the Hammers helped us out, and wait for the injury problems to ease before you make such drastic conclusions about the squad. Let’s hope we can get Hargreaves back, perhaps buy a defender or attacking player in January (IF the price is right), and hope that the defender injury problem eases. As Scott said, we are shit right now, but so is everyone else, including the supposed invincible, already crowned RentBoyz… who just happened to draw with 2nd from the bottom West Ham. We are 4 points from top and it isn’t even January. Relax.
@ sanj
Well said mate!
The situation is surreal. Thank fuck for mediocrity being widespread.
Hopefully we’ll get our shit together in the New Year, when the injuries should begin to subside.
P.s. Apparently Wolves didn’t leave Old Trafford without anything. Heard the cheap bastards singing that Milijas, from Serbia, “will fuckin’ murder ya’”. Unoriginal cunts.
Oh I am so happy I was right with the Chelsea result – did they win?
Wait the mighty the powerful the invincible Chelsea couldn’t beat West Ham?
How many midfielders did they have playing in defence?
Were Terry Carvalho Cole Ivanovic Alex all injured or something?
Why wasn’t the great Drogba scoring any goals?
People need to get real – what’s happening to us is down to no first defence and no second defence and it’s hard – every other thing is a bloody kick in the teeth – because we are always going to have bad days.
4 points people and 20 games – have faith
@kylelaw84, MG
Good to see some of us still have some faith.
Whatever it is as long as we are above the scousers, im happy
Big thank you to Westham. Should have been awarded a second peno, and chelsea’s peno shouldn’t have been given in the first place. Upson clearly won the ball from lumpard. Typical rentboys, relying on the ref to get them a point. They played crap, even with drogba who was invisible for the majority of the match. They will still miss his goals when he’s off to the ACON.
We suffered from injuries and harsh ref decisions yet we are only 4 points off the top in december. I guess all our christmas wishes will be the same.
@ sanj – then you got to ask the question why does ferguson not play berbatov most games even when he is fit.I said this nearly 3 weeks ago that rooney and berbatov have been rotated never been given the chance to settle, like I said why does fergie do that? because he has lost all faith in berbatov, and if this continues fergie tends to replace berbatov. look at forlan fergie is rotating forlan just how he is rotating berbatov and his confidence is shot.
I will say this it time and time again the other forwards should be stepping up to the plate and show why ferguson bought them because we are not getting value for money, it is so unfair to expect rooney to be the one scoring all the goals he needs help.
Chelsea stole a point, wasn’t a penalty. Deserved to get 0 points not 1.
Good reads Scott and others…
I was online here after the match and the majority of the “fans” “complaining” were about the offensive of United, I pointed out that we conceeded 3 to Fulham for fuck sake, it’s not a talking point. Waited for this article to sum it up better with your words: theres a knock on effect on the whole team when you have 8 defenders missing..
No team in the world would win their league with 8 main defenders out, it’s not possible.
With our best midfielder(s) put to defence, with our best players (rooney berba) taken out of the picture because it’s so much harder to service them, with our lack of dominating keeper to keep our lads at the back a bit calmer in these times of trouble, with the wingers finding no space to run into because in a 3-5-2 theres no fullbacks to help them make space so we aren’t getting crosses in, PEOPLE STILL TALK ABOUT OUR OFFENSIVE FRAILTIES!
What I’d want to know is if at United they’ve started to change the training regime, it’s usually the first thing to look for when players are all starting to take slight injuries all the time. Is it all such a big coincidence? I remember the great campaign of 07/08 looking at the back 5 and seeing the same damn names for months on end. Was too good to be true. Wes, Rio, Nemanja, Pat, and Edwin. Ah reliable days..
I may sound like a cynic here, but i like how unpredictable the EPL is becoming. It reminds me of the 90s when i fell in love with this championship. And at the end, United still came out on top, so here’s hoping!
We may revisit the times when a champion would gather 75 points!
JD and the irony is people call our midfield crap, it is the same midfield that won the 3 league titles and a european cup so what has changed.
Luca Toni’s being released in January.
Our transfer-obsessed-gimp fans will be going into overdrive.
Costas yes that is true but the difference is united were a better side than the current one. I said this 2 weeks ago united could lose 9 games and still win the league thats how the standards of the premiership has dropped especially the top sides.
@rooney the new king
I don’t know, I can’t read Fergie’s mind. I’d imagine he’s trying to find the best combination of Owen, Berbatov, and Rooney. Berbatov missed all of October. Without Rooney’s penalties, he has 8 league goals, while Berbatov has 4. I don’t think that is much of a difference, with Berbatov being out for an entire month and attempting to get an extended run in the side. People tend to exaggerate when it comes to Berbatov. Let’s face it, people have made up their mind about him, they will say he needs to go with every chance they get.
Bebeto well why not luca tony if ppl think larsson was a good signing why not luca tony, it will add more depth to our attack and maybe that predator striker we need.
Chelsea are the presses current wet dream,it was the dippers last season,n who came out on top,love that they’re slippin up n they only got 1 player out,wait til acon,2nd half of the season is as always……utds!!!!
I wouldn’t want Luca Toni because he’s a disruptive asshole. Fergie couldn’t tolerate him, nor could Toni tolerate a rotation policy, certainly not prior to a World Cup. The entire “adaptation” issue could also be a huge blow to his chances.
He is in no way comparable to Larsson – the ultimate professional.
He’ll probably head off back to Italy.
@rooney the new king:
I think that’s debatable. The United side that won the league in 96-97 had some really bad spells of form. There were many bright sides, like Beckham and Ole’s emergences, but we had many defensive problems and had a few shocking results( Newcastle beat us 5-0 and the following week Southampton beat us 6-3 and in April Derby won at OT 3-2). And just like this season, our rivals were dropping points for fun.
I guess what matters is that you are on top of the mountain in May. I think United can’t get any worse(from a form or injury standpoint) than they are doing right now. Hopefully, we will get better soon and Chelsea and Arsenal will enter have their bad spells.
rooney the new king
Luca toni cant even score from 3 yards. misses too many chances. we need a striker who will score most of the chances he will get. Toni isnt the answer. He can make a nuisance of himself and trouble the defenders but he isnt the same player who scored 39 goals in 2007-08 season anymore.
Off Topic. Jose Mourinho hasnt lost a single game in his last152 home games for Inter and Chelsea. That is some record.
@sanj – well like it or not there is a reason why people are still debating berbatov is
A the price tag
B his influence when it matters
C goalscoring record
D consistancy
E his mentality
F his age
– these are huge factors why he is still being questioned. when you come to a club this big, players cannot go into their shell and worry about how much they cost if players do that they will be destroyed, show them what you have got.
– I am questioning the guys mentality his ability to get better his age and when the chips are down make game changing moments. king eric feels he is not doing enough, I want 70% more from berbatov I feel united are getting 30% of what he has got to offer. I thought this season right we will see a different berbatov but nothing has changed.
I’ll just settle for a full recovery for every injured player, including Hargreaves, instead of buying in January. What a team we already have. Any other club with these problems and they’d be facing a sacked manager and a relegation battle!
If we’ve dropped more points over the next month that it’s unlikely we can win the league, fuck it, no complaints. Fate’s dealt us this card, going from the best defensive team with such a great cleansheet record last season to this, is such a 180. I’ve just got to get ready for the “no Ronaldo no league!” mob that will kick in..
The Berbatov and Rooney partnership will only work if Fergie tells Berbatov to stay in the penalty box and tells Rooney to not drop too deep or drift to the left flank. If that doesn’t happen, then their partnership is pretty pointless.
Chelsea are so SHITE we will win the PL even if Kusczak plays upfront Rooney plays center back and Evra in goal. Mark my words.
No chance to Luca Toni, he apparently left the ground in a huff on saturday at half time after being substituted. We just got rid of Tevez in the summer, no need for another dickhead.
Besides he said he misses italy and wants to return there so everyone is best forgetting about it, no doubt some wont though.
Luca Toni? Is this some kind of joke. His age, attitude and form doesn’t give him a place at utd.
@Fze123 – well 2 strikers coming deep does work if they both are mobile can go box to box and the most important factor have a third forward who has it all like a messi and ronaldo, unfortunetly we dont have that player any more than the other is barca for life.
- so the question is we need a no 9 striker? We seem to sign no 10 strikers when we already have the best no 10 striker in the world in rooney. if we had a world class no 9 striker united will score goals.
- we have out an out wide players like valencia but united have strikers who come short making the likes of valencia pointless and ineffective. its like asking beckham cross the ball with strikers who dont come into the box enough that would make beckhams main weapon seem useless.
@ rooney the new king
I agree that Berbatov needs to do much more. But like I said, people have made up their minds. I believe in giving him more time, but like you said, he does need to be more consistent, something I still believe can be achieved if he can play regularly. As Fze123 said, Rooney and Berbatov both consistently dropping deep makes their partnership effectively pointless. Rooney is constantly picking the ball up in his own half. I love his passion and commitment, but what is the point of saying he’s going to play up front and then allowing him to roam all over the park? He needs to be more disciplined.
@ sanj – like I said on the previous post we have 2 no10 strikers going deep, valencias whole game is based on a no 9 striker to go into the box so he can supply the cross for a no 9 type striker, but if our 2 strikers are going deep add the fact the CM does not score goals enough we have no clue who plays on the left our whole attacking game is useless and blunt.
– it worked fine a phew years ago with ronaldo because he would score with his head he had the height he is teqnically a no 9 striker and he was explosive in attack making our 2 second strikers an outlet to work with.
- that is why I say we will need a no 9 striker to give united that outlet again, torres has shown when he is fit that he can make liverpool seem like a better attacking side than what they are really are, berbatov seems fine sitting on the bench now, so we can buy a striker in the summer and we may have the 99 4 strikers again next year. berbatov seems he is blessed being here.
- But the irony is both rooney and berbatov play better with a no 9 striker I dont think they work well and fergie has never given the patnership time to shine, Berbatov seems like he is used same has forlan which is annoying. berbatov is about confidence and fergie is not showering him with enough of it which is why he giving these fragile interviews about past players.
sanj
I am not a Berba hater. I have defended him at every chance but he is now 29 and is fast running out of time. its over 12 months now that he has been here and is getting more games with Rooney. The sad part is he hasnt formed a partnership like he did with Robbie keane at Spurs because as you mentioned Rooney as well drops very deep. Cant blame them though,w e have lacked creativity a lot of times this season, so to try and make something happen they have to come deep.Berba dosent have pace which adds to his disadvantage
rooney the new king
agree with you about strikers dropping too deep. another thing i have noticed is that Anderson, valencia,gibson and the other midfielders dont make many runs in the box to try and get on the end of crosses. Valencia has done it a few times but dosent do it consistently. Now that scholesy cant do it its up to the others to get a few goals that way
Talking of No 9, i cant see many available at the moment for a reasonable price.Owen can do that but our poor crossing and lack of creativity in recent games isnt helping him. Also he cant play more than a game every 7 days.
@rooney the new king
Right. I hope we can find the free scoring form. Don’t know why Sir Alex hasn’t tried Berba, Owen and Rooney more often. I think having Hargreaves and Fletcher in the centre would be ideal. However, I’m worried about whether Hargreaves will ever return. Just having Fletch back in the centre will make an enormous difference.
@ sanj – fletcher is basically the floor trusses and the centre support columns that kept the twin towers together. unfortunetly our floor trusses have sagged and the centre support columns have been destroyed and we are at ground zero.
– I have no clue when hargreaves will return but I would not chose hargreaves over carrick. carrick and fletcher is a balanced pairing of guile hard graft and football brains. the only no 9 striker I could come up with that we could sign is david villa and I doubt he wants to come here contridiction from me there LOL.
- but united desperatly need a no 9 striker, even if we signed torres in 2007 instead of tevez and berbatov the problems will still be the same, because torres is crippled.
I think this year the premier league winners will collect fewer than 80 points for the first time since Man Ut won it with 79 in the golden year ´99
btw that year Liverpool finished 7th
rooney the new king Said,
“JD and the irony is people call our midfield crap, it is the same midfield that won the 3 league titles and a european cup so what has changed.”
So what has actually changed???
maybe Uniteds account balance by 80 million Pounds
Everyone knows of the problems in defence
There are players who we can sign but the price is another problem with city and chelsea around and it being the january transfer window. you have the likes of Chamakh from Bordeaux who would come in cheap with his contract coming to an end but they are in the last 16 of the champions League. Dzeko is the obvious one. Vedad Ibisevic who plays for Hoffenhiem is another option. Feel we missed out on Nilmar who was signed by Villareal.Looks a good player.anyways whats gone is gone, we have to sort something out so that we can play better with the players we have.
@ sanj and rooney the new king
If Owen brings out the best in Berbatov, then we don’t need a no. 9 striker. I don’t know why Fergie doesn’t start them together more often. They click. Why doesn’t Fergie play Welbeck or Macheda with Rooney, and see which youngster Rooney plays with better. That way we finally give more runs for both of them in the first team, and they become more experienced while playing alongside Rooney. It’s no good waiting any more, Welbeck and Macheda deserve to be regular first teamers. Also, that way we will have 2 partnerships to choose from:
Berbatov + Owen
Rooney + Macheda/Welbeck
Buying a new striker won’t benefit the youngsters at utd. They aren’t kids anymore, they are older and itching to get more time in the first team. Real are reportedly interested in Evans, he obviously won’t leave for many reasons, but the main one is that he is a regular starter for us. If we bought a striker, and come club are interested in Macheda or Welbeck, getting first team action will be tempting for them.
Fze123
Personally think Kiko and Welbeck havent progressed that well.otherwise they would have got more chances. Owen cant play evey game and hence his partnership with Berba not be a consistentey,i mean they wont be able to play every game because of Owens limitations.The youngsters will get their chances but if they dont and Fergie said that he wasnt signing a new striker because he had faith in kiko, welbeck and the rest. Guess that hasnt happened though. SAF has been terribly let down by nani and to some extent Anderson’s inconsistency though he has improved this season
sorry, clicked submit by mistake.
I agree that the problems in defence have a knock-on effect.
Rooneys form has been poor and I wouldnt place it down to just a tendancy to drop deep when the team is struggling – he has had great games when doing this anyway. For me, when the ball lands at Rooney’s feet just outside the box I no longer have hope that what will follow is a dazling finish or assist. His game seems to be composed of near misses at the moment. A key indicator that his confidence is low is that often when he gets the ball with a bit of space, his first touch is away from goal.But every player goes through slumps, its just unfortunate that one of our greatest is going through it right now. I am craving a genuine goal threat who can take on the man.
3-5-2 as a system will never work without genuine protection for the back three. Although im not a big fan, Park’s return could provide some cover for an inexperienced and sometimes outpointed defence. Hes a terrier and at the very least he will hassle and harry the opposition.
4 points behind at Christmas isnt bad. As players return I think youll see genuine momentum build towards another title.
Fze123 welbeck and macheda have not exactly nailed their place in the first team.
Sanj: I was not blaming Berbatov for yesterday’s defeat. It’s just the thought of that guy coming on the try and swing the game for us at the best of times doesn’t fill me with any confidence and with just cause! The bloke has played in enough big games since he’s been here and hasn’t made an impact in any of those games. Simply not good enough!
@ rooney the new king, that’s why they need more chances. If they play shit in one match, they shouldn’t be on the bench for the next. They should be given a chance after another until they prove themselves. They have huge potential. I think Macheda played well against Wolfsburg. And Welbeck is almost always played out of position.
@ Aig alex is god, Owen can’t play every game and Berbatov is not starting many games recently. That’s what they have in common at the moment. We can switch between 2 partnerships, and not play the same one each game. which will be suitable for Owen. One week Berbatov and Owen start together, the next week Rooney and Welbeck or Macheda start together.
The main problem we have is that we have only one player who is currently a great player, is currently in good form, playing his proper position and is a reasonable age with a view to the future
Patrice Evra
Obviously other players will gain back fitness, form and youngsters will emerge. I’m fairly happy with Darren Fletcher for example who if playing in his proper position would be a great asset (though at the minute he seems to be deployed in defence). I just think there should should be several players at the minute, who, in spite of our problems- can be considered top class and who aren’t 35+.
Supposing Barcelona had a full defensive injury crisis. Would it be so much an issue for them to still have a good midfield and attack?
We are very thin on the ground in terms of top quality. Our top players have left, poor signings have been made. I’ve taken a lot of flack for being honest about the current team, though i never thought i was unreasonable or unfair. If people can’t see it clear as day now, they never will.
There is very little to get excited about with regards to this team and entertainment has been low. I can’t make any convincing arguments that we will win the league this year, I just hope that the other teams around us continue to be awful.
Our current predicament is such that the defensive crisis, coupled with the general lack of quality players is really hurting us.
I just want to point out that many of you keep on saying “We need a out an out striker, [I don't who], but someone who runs at defenders and wins matches for us, we need to to buy someone like that [in januray if the price is right].”
People keep saying the same thing, knowing full well that:
-There is no one available who is suitable for utd, in terms of age, qualities and what league/club they’re currently playing at.
-The prices in the jan window will be skyhigh, thanks to chelsea who will be wanting to strengthen their ageing team, and city with their millions wanting to buy even more mercenaries so they can get a top 4 spot.
alex-is-god: “Personally think Kiko and Welbeck havent progressed that well.otherwise they would have got more chances.”
KikoTheKid apparently has hamstring woes and before that he was away playing for the ItalianU20s; Welbeck was injured playing fot the IngerlundU20s. So, I think it’s not quite right to say they “haven’t progressed”; what is more correct is that they haven’t been given the chance to play at center-forward – whenever Welbeck has played SAF has stationed him on the wing.
Sanj – I admire you for sticking up for Berbatov but he’s been with UTD for almost sixteen months and has really done little of note. Four goals from a first-choice striker is like what you’d expect to get from EmileIvanhoeHeskey and, at least, he knows how to mesh with WayneRooney !
IF Edwin/Rio/Wesley/Vidic are all healthy then UTD play a version of the 3-5-2 since Patrice Evra is usually found playing further forward than BOTH Rooney and Berbatov. So, let’s call the usual formation a 3-7-0.
Fze123 there is always someone out there, like you said there is no one out there. but this is where the scouts of united earn their money, go find someone that most of us have never heard of and like that old saying lets see if they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
@ brett1985 – “We are very thin on the ground in terms of top quality.”
Unfortunately, the lack of desire/interest/attraction towards utd from quality players doesn’t help, due to factors such as the weather, money, competitiveness of the premier league and a whole load of other ridiculous reasons.
brett1985 – Sad day when you can’t “get excited” by United. There is the whole roller coaster of the season, Rooney hitting top form, our defenders getting fit, watching Fletch and hopefully at some point Hargo dominating midfields. The emergence of players in the reserves and academy. Leeds and City cup ties. Pleanty to get excited about as far as I am aware. The prospect of Obertan. Cleverley returning on loan.
@brett1985
Dude sorry but I have to correct you
best players left?
Who? Ronaldo who wanted to leave and publicly dragged the name of the club into dirt in summer 08 after winning the CL and the premiership?
Who? Tevez who went to Man City to find what exactly that United never game him?
Correct me as the manager you would have two sulks in the team no matter how good and rub their ego (under what context) just to keep them at United?
Are you sure?
Poor signings have been made?
Yes Nani hasn’t lived up to the billing and Berbatov hasn’t scored enough – but Berba has contributed so much more in terms of play and assists – so what – who else?
Ji sung Park has a few bad matches and everyone is after him – I love him at least he brings a balance – Hargreaves unlucky with injuries but in 08 he was immense.
Valencia has scored more goals in five months than he did in about the same number of years. He never was bought to replace Ronaldo – bc he is an old fashioned winger – doing good.
Obertan has been a find.
Fabio, Raphael especially have been unbelievable at times – lack of experience in others.
Owen has scored goals when people said he’s be lucky if he got one or a few.
Johnny Evans (who we didn’t buy) has been a rock – SAF should have started him against Barca instead of a half fit Rio
Darren Gibson – solid with a tinge of spectacular – another one didn’t have to buy
Macheda – learning
Wellbeck – improving
De Laet – gaining experience
where are your rubbish buys?
Are you serious?
After everything that has happened with injuries we are in the last 16 in Europe, SF of CC, 4 points behind top in the league – where is the doom?
Where is your faith if it’s that bad – are we languishing mid table – out of CL no SF in the CC?
@ King Eric the problem is hargreaves may never return when nearly 4 times his return has been delayed. I love rollercosters but this rollercoster ride has making me sick, united are like those giant tea cup rides it is a great ride until you puke.
@ brett1985, last time I checked, Rooney, Berbatov and Valencia are still at utd and haven’t left. They may not be on form but they are undeniably quality players in their own ways. Rooney on form is not quality, he’s world class. Strange that you haven’t mentioned that. So far this season we have been frustrating to watch, but with the injuries we have, how could we not be?
As I have said before, if you want to see ‘quality players’ at utd, like messi or kaka, then that’ll never happen. Players of their calibre won’t be attracted to utd as long as the fascists exist.
Embarrassed to be a fan of United sometimes. Just look at some of these comments on Manc Evening News site. Particularly “danny from Wilmslow”.
A disgrace :
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/c/1186816_ferguson_offers_bleak_outlook?page_size=25#comments
Fze123 so you are saying united are not has big as the fascists and barca
Hey guys and Scott Happy Christmas to you all fellow United supporters.
After the west ham result it has cushoned the loss to fulham. Only 4 points behind when I thought it would be 6. United’s staff and SAF have a lot of work to do.
1st – need to play a 4231 or have four at the back.
2- play fletcher in midfield & get one of the reserve team player to play at right back and centre half like cory Evans.
3- organize the team so that the objective is not to concede a goal by play disciplined football and closing players down.
4- creativity and immagination Is what we need. Rooney and Berbatov are the most creative and immagination also Giggs (when fit). We need to use them in the final third and build our team around them.
We can win the league we just need to focus and play as a team. Attacking and defending as a team.
@ rooney the new king, No. Why did benzema choose to go to real madrid instead of us?
Fze123 well you can say rooney choose united over every club in europe.
King Eric – I refuse to go to those pages because to may idiots same has the bbc/606, I have been reading a bit on here that redrants is even worse can someoen calrify it I dont know the sites website name are they worse.
oh well back to football manager muppet 2010 and me showing fergie how it is done LOL I am joking there hehe.
mg/ fze123
The players you mention have redeeming qualities but we need 3 or 4 players now who and I shall repeat
Are the right age
Are top class
Are on form
And are in position
The core of the team
I can fit 1 player in those criteria at present. You guys list about 10 between you. Someone is wrong. Obviously it may be a trivial matter for the likes of Rooney to get back on form or Vidic to return from injury but until they do it were rubbish. And even supposing Rooney, Vidic, Evra and Fletcher are hitting top form there is then the matter of the supporting cast- the solid first team element who are not worldclass but do a fine job. Hargreaves, left midfield, right back, goalkeeper. It is a mystery who or what we have for those positions. Potential in a couple of players is okay.
The dearth of certain solutions we have is critical.
@Fze123
If you don’t mind can I take that Benzema question?
Well Benzema when to the mob instead of us because of the following reasons:
When I was a kid I had a dream of wearing the shirt for the whites
When I was a kid the only thing I wanted was to be a Madrid player
When I was a kid I wanted to make history
It’s polemic (he might have said it – don’t they all)
It’s destiny that I would go to Madrid
It’s the right thing to do
It’s my life
There are no other clubs
Madrid fulfill my dreams
Madrid are the biggest club in the world (AHEM!)
Madrid are the only team you want to play for (AHEM!)
Madrid make dream come true (yeah the winker got world player of the year and the Balon d’or at Madrid – I mean who the fuck are Man Utd to coin a phrase)
Hope that helps – of course no one will ever say they go to Madrid to have a holiday, they won’t say they go to Madrid for the money the clubs and the girls! – they won’t say we’ve gone to be bums because the managers get changed more often than the Armani underpants : ) and the best one is they won’t say that they in fact go to Madrid to play for the fantasy of a deluded President – I mean who in their right mind goes to play for the club or the manager when the President and the Vice President control the whole fucking thing
Just a point : )
Well said Scott. No excuses this time. The issues have to be dealt with and dealt with properly if we are to have a chance of winning this league. The lack of form and general stature of the others has been extremely promising (for us anyway…how the FU*K are Liverpool still only 8th!?), but probably the main, most worrying problem you rose was ‘more worrying…’ no.2. Where is it going to come from? Has the resolve, determination and desire of old slowly evaporated? Why do we struggle to play consistently against the league’s good/bad teams and why can we not see off these teams comfortably?
How is Valencias crossing poor?
@brett
Listen Hargreaves got injured. Bad luck – we have so many over the years it’s unbelievable – Ronny Johnsen was brilliant – injured – Solskjaer was a legend for the club- got injured – Gary Neville – leader captain – injured.
You just have to hope that SAF knows what he’s doing with him.
Left Midfield you could argue there is no one standing outright – but at the moment we are covered – it’s not a problem area – and yes Nani hasn’t developed and I don’t know if he’ll stay – but Obertan has been doing fine and will get even better if SA reckons he’s the one.
Right back – sorry John O Shea and Raphael are just fine and Wesley can be thrown into the mix there or centrally – buying another right back to get rid of John? – Don’t think so That’s how important John is because the last few months have been difficult without him – again totally unappreciated player
Goalkeeper – maybe all depends on TK and BF and of course how the big man EVDS ends up after the injury
Still no need for concern though…
I don’t exactly know why it is, but this season, the reactions after every defeat have been more knee jerk than ever. Maybe it’s because we sold Ronaldo? Maybe it’s because we didn’t spend the 80 million? Maybe it’s Berbatov’s price tag? Maybe it’s because for the past 3 years the team has set the bar ridiculously high?
If it’s because of Ronaldo, then i am afraid we had no choice. His heart wasn’t in the club anymore. As far as the money from his transfer are concerned, i didn’t want the club to buy just so that they could buy. I wanted us to spend more than we did and bulk our defence, but that was because i was worried that we would again suffer from a lot of injuries at the back. Like it happened..
Berba’s subject is one of the most debated and we will talk a lot about him until the end of the season. Personally, i prefer not to judge him by his price tag. Shevchenko was also worth as much and i think he did worse at Chelsea than Berba does for us. And if we want to blame someone for that price tag, lets blame Daniel Levy who ballooned it from 25 to 30 million on the final day. I am of the opinion that we should utilise him inside the penalty box. That’s the only way he and Rooney won’t get in each other’s way.
Finally, i know that the last 3 years have been fantastic, but i doubt anyone here became a United fan in that period. We have gone through the dark era of 2003-2006 and we know what it’s like when United are struggling to find their path. Football works in cycles. In a way, one cycle closed this summer. What we are trying to do now, is enter a new one without losing a heart beat in terms of winning championships. That’s something that’s very hard to do. And we are talking about winning an unprecedented 4th consecutive title.
Maybe i am a pessimist. And maybe i have become complacent because of our recent successes. But i prefer to view this season as a bonus. If we win the league, that will be awesome. 4 in a row and officially, the most decorated team in the land. If we don’t, we can take heart in two things: 1)We will have gone through our transitional period and a new team will be emerging(with Gibson, Obertan, the twins, Welbeck, Kiko, Gibson, Evans and De Laet ready to stake their claim). 2) The dippers won’t win it either.
@ MG, That’s exactly the answer I wanted from rooney is the new king. You are spot on. That’s why players will go to madrid. Because they are brainwashed by all of the galacitos thing, because of the ridiculous wages they give, and they will all say the same bullshit, talk about the ‘dream’ of playing there. That’s the only thing they can say.
@ rooney is the new king, If I thought they were bigger than utd I wouldn’t be supporting utd, let alone be on this blog. Because whoever thinks there is a club that is bigger than utd is simply not a utd fan.
Valencia has improved slightly of late which is fine but he still has a long way to go. His wing play in one dimensional, his crossing poor and has even made the odd defensive slip. I don’t think he is very creative but could be a good goalscorer.
Thinking back to sides who have won the league in the last 18 seasons I’d struggle to place him in any of them. To me he is an acceptable squad player.
Spot on Costas
People should stop being so negative.. We are the fans of the greatest football team in the world.
Maybe we´ll win the league and maybe we wont, maybe we´ll win CL and maybe we wont
If we win all things all the time, it stops being fun.. we have to loose sometimes to appreciate the good times
MG
Thing is, I agree with you about Hargreaves, O’Shea and Obertan. I’m a big fan of O’Shea and I don’t like the fact Nani is blacklisted by the manager either. They aren’t being written off- at least by me.
But in addition to these players we still ought to have really top quality players threaded throughout the team (right age, on form etc) and we don’t have that. We are one or two really good players short in attacking areas.
Give me Keane in midfield and Cantona up front, Scholes at his peak and Van Nistlerooy, Rooney on form with Ronaldo.
At the minute its off form Rooney and Giggs in a wheelchair (even though Rooney has a respectable goal scoring rate). Without Giggs we’d be midtable and I just don’t know how long its going to last.
In 1994/1999/2008 the team was littered with excellent players in almost every position and right now it aint.
brett1985 except for ronaldo and tevez it is basically the same set of players but the difference is they are injured.
Brett
Come on
Wayne cannot be at the top of his game in every single match – no player can – and he is a striker for all his brilliance if there are no defenders to do there jobs then how do you think he’s going to fair?
I think his criticism is unfair because unlike a Drogba, Anelka, Torres, whoever Wayne is constantly always moving into places, trying to find the ball to dictate play – none of the above ever do that – Wayne Rooney is a Unique player because his game is so rounded.
Giggs in a wheelchair is a disgraceful comment – a player can age and yet still be at the top of the game – medically and physically moreover mentally he is a better player than a lot of the younger players – and you can say that in the whole of Europe too – so what if he is outstanding – he has been for the best part of 20 years. When Giggs was young and getting ripped apart by Romario and Stoichkov etc what did he lack?
Experience – and now he has it he can change the game just with one pass of the ball – he has done it so many times this year.
The question again is if we had our defence even our second string we would not be having this conversation – I can understand your need for another playmaker but that’s how we just don’t operate. You need to give it time and let every one develop to see where we end up at.
We have exactly the same team as 08 apart from the virus and the boy next door. Can I ask you what have Chelsea done to have won the premiership right now? JT said 90 points – is he sure? They have there best team out and over the last five matches have been rubbish. We have half a team out and are coping. 4 points is the difference – if they had that ruthless streak under Mourinho then I would say to you that we have no chance – the fact is and everyone knows it they don’t. They are scared knowing we are having a real bad injury patch and have not run away with the league – because they are just not that good. Come May you can toast me on it too.
MG hope you are right I dont know what will happen, but I said that what is the difference between the side from 2008 to the current one. well if you take ronaldo and tevez out of the team it is the same squad.
Costas: “Shevchenko was also worth as much and i think he did worse at Chelsea than Berba does for us.”
I believe that’s what’s called “damning with faint praise”.
Some of us have been sceptical of Berbatov since the end of last year when SAF didn’t give him a starting place in the most important game of the year – CL final in Rome v. Barcelona. Clearly, the gaffer ain’t impressed. It seemed to me – me (!) – that the key to UTD’s season would be the ability of Rooney/Berbatov to gel. Only a wild-eyed fanatic could claim that this has happened. I have noticed that over the past month/six weeks that there is increasing impatience with Dimmy’s positioning.
He’s supposed to be a #9 but he rarely is in that position. I know we’ve hashed this out before but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true ! Unlike some others, I really don’t care about the price tag; what irks me about Berbatov is that he seems to be unwilling to change his game to blend with Wayne Rooney. That’s not only stubborn but also dumb.
It’s a shame that KikoTheKid has been absent on idiotic “international duty” playing for Italy’s u20s so frequently and that, when those idiotic commitments have finally ended, he has now got trouble with his hamstrings. From what I’ve seen, only KikoTheKid – and, maybe, Joshua King – have the kind of game that would complement Wayne Rooney’s undisciplined approach to positioning.
For sure, you can’t have two forwards on the pitch who want to play at RoyOfTheRovers. If Rooney is going to be guaranteed a place then he needs a partner who can complement his game – not one who gets in his way.
I should have added that if we can hope for miracles then maybe this guy Mame Diouf has the game to complement Wayne Rooney. But that’s probably as long a shot as Joshua King, eh ?
Lads why all the stressing? Second in the league with all our problems? Fucking rentboys only 4 points clear with practically full squad. N scousers keep getting it n rafa beneath us cracking. Roll on 2010!!! Four in a row!!
Spot the difference(s)
United 07/08:
VDS
Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Ronaldo, Hargreaves/Carrick, Anderson/Scholes, Nani/Giggs
Rooney, Tevez
United today:
Kuszczak
De Laet, Fletcher, Carrick, Evra
Valencia, Gibson, Scholes/Anderson, Giggs/Obertan
Rooney, Owen
We need tall defenders & Gerard Pique comes to mind. Why did SAF had to be so accomodating?
MG
I thought that by broadly agreeing with you in the last batch of comments, albeit adding my expectation of a core of players with the criteria I suggested that this debate is coming to a head. Sorry if you found my comments about the wheelchair disgraceful, they were intended to be humorous which I suppose is easily misunderstood in text.
Frankly you have a lot of comments made and you can hardly expect me to disagree with some of the statements you’ve made such as “Wayne cannot be at the top of his game in every single match”. Of course he can’t. If you aren’t going to represent what I am saying accurately its hard to respond. I just find you are missing my point a bit->
I’m trying to say about GIggs that he isn’t a long term option. The same for Scholes. Your explanation of their excellent career and longevity doesn’t really change that.
rooney is the new king:
sorry about earlier
it’s a bit late tonight but maybe tomorrow it would be interesting to discuss the 2008 squad and now. I think the different interpretations of how we have got on squad wise since the run up to the final in 2008, to the present are very much the reason for peoples differing opinions
Think about if the rentboys, pool, and arsenal were all missing 4 of their top CB’s, not to mention 3 or 4 of their other top defenders, and their best midfielder (Essien, Stevie Me, Fabregas) has to be right back…would they be second in the league? Would they have made it out of the champs league group stage?
Injuries are something that you can’t control, just something that you have to play through, not only is the defense in shambles but your best mid fielder is out of position, so your mid field is weakened. And another thing to think about, since we have midfielders playing defense, don’t you think everyone is more concerned about covering that going forward? We just need to grind these next weeks out, no matter what the score is, the results are the only thing that matter
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Evra
Valencia Fletcher Hargreaves (Anderson, Carrick, etc) Giggs (obertan)
Berba Rooney
That looks pretty good to me and I’ll take that lineup against anyone.
PS United are at their best when everyone writes them off
@Brett
And I likewise agree that you’re right another player or players may be needed but I don’t think they are needed yet.
By posting back to you wasn’t meant to disrespect I totally understand your POV and it’s worthy of a debate – as I see it I just feel again that a fit enough defence would not have let the scenario come to this – esp. last week.
So change of course should come whether that may be from the reserves or outright transfer – that’s up to SAF.
Peace man we all want the same thing here – we are all in it for the same reason – MUFC
brett1985 its fine I am just playing football manager 2010, I worked hard editing my world of football obvious I made some changes to my squad LOL.
MG what I wat from united is better players LOL, I am not going to ramble the same shit I went on and on earlier because many know my thoughts on the current squad.
@ Fred
The differences are: nine injuries, a lad’s dream, 80 million earned, 47 million saved.
Bob Koh: “Gerard Pique comes to mind. Why did SAF had to be so accomodating?”
No question, SAF made a big mistake – although, at the time, it seemed to be reasonable to choose Evans ahead of Pique – how was he to know that Rio would be semi-permanently crocked and MissusVidic needs a lot of retail therapy in the sunshine ?
the only way to get the best out of berbatov is by signing a creative midfielder someone in the mould of rafael van der vaart who will allow him to have more freedom inside the penalty box the same freedom rooney will benefit from i mean its so annoying when you have to of your best strikers spending more time inside their own half instead of bullying the opposition defence
also fergi needs to give magnus eikrem a chance the boy has already proved he can create as well as score goals maybe we should’nt bother ourselves in transfer macket when we have the x factor in the squad…..
PS can somebody help me out ….is tom cleverly a defensive attacking midfielder or a winger ??
I guess once everyone is back at the back, we should be ok on that front although it has to be said both Vida and Rio hasn’t been as solid this year. Just hope it’s because of their on-going injuries.
What our biggest problem is (and has been for a long time) is we don’t have a out and out goalscorer since we lost RVN. Rooney and Berba are great playing off the main striker and not natural goalscorers. Owen could be that man but he seem to have lost his most important weapon, his speed.
Ole for a comeback!?
Good summary Scottie but the “Rooney plays well………” bit, a modern take on the “Crerand plays well……..), doesn’t wash.
Agree Fletch must be given his proper position and even if it meant putting Park at rb, then we must. Fletch would probably cover for him anyway.
Morning everyone. Found this:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/113594/Manchester-United-players-drown-sorrows-at-Rio-Ferdinand-s-r
I am not going to sound old fashion and say why our lads were having a Christmas party after a bad defeat. It’s 2010 after all.
However, Kiko is still smoking? I thought Fergie would have had him quit by now. I hope it was just for that occasion.
Should Chelsea win the title this season, FA should give winners medals to their referees as well.
This season I’ve seen only two Chelsea matches, against us and yesterday against the hammers. Both matches rent boys should have lost, but for their rescuers – the men in black jerseys.
They keep whingeing about Mick McCarthy, but if this blatant Chelsea support does not compromise the integrity of the Premier Leage, I do not know what will.
Its hard to see united struggle so badly.. i agree with Scott that the prob is in both defence & in creativity & whilst the defensive problem should start to ease off hopefully i dont see things changing to much up front & its becomin pretty clear that we need to dip into the transfer market in Jan.
I dont think that fletcher & carrick moving back to midfield will help too much because even at the start of the season when they were playing their regular positions we werent posing too much of a goal threat even if we were better & when you think of it our most creative player is a 36 year old who we’ve never replaced nor do we have anyone waiting in the wings to come in and replace him
I have no idea who that creative player might be but it sure as hell isnt Anderson ! I also agree that Rooney’s gone off the boil a bit but we’ve also been unlucky that Berba got injured jus when he was finding his feet..But we cant keep finding excuses we need to get down to winning games luckily we’ve got the best manager in the business
Xyth
spot on united are 4 points off the topor as I like to call it united are one Chelsea win and one Chelsea draw off the top
united v Chelsea Fletcher wins the ball freekick given free kick taken fowl on Wes brown player off side ball in the net goal given…. Terry v Valencia Terry decideds to have a lie down on valencias hip and pulls him down in doing so in the box. No peno. A Chelsea win
should be no free kick fowl given off side given no goal
peno given Terry off peno scored united win……..
West ham battle there arses off, win a peno score defend
Tackle infront of the ref by a hammer in a rent boy and wins 60% of the ball. The red bottles it puts all the blame on the lines man who wrongly gives the peno peno scored. Chelsea draw.
I know in football every desisions works itself out but from the outside looking in Chelsea seem to be getting a lot going there way.. When a. Hole went from arsenal to Chelsea were Chelsea not warned that further tapping up will result with points been taken away, which never happen but at least they were told they couldn’t buy anyone for 18 months, but that was forgotten about after it turned out pogba is nice and legal. If united broke the rules with Paul pogba you could bet your bottom dollar that that wouldn’t of happened
Scott..
What a fantastic Post. You have hit the nail on the head!
There are so many who fail to take the above into concideration and for some god for saken reason want us to go out and spend the 60 or 80 million transfer kitty in january.
To be honest, I dont care if this season we dont win the league. We have won it 3 seasons on the trott A 4th would be great but if we dont its no big deal for me!
Our club will be in many more Premiership fights and in honesty we are not totaly out of this one!
In fergie we trust.
Its amazing how bad the competition has been this year.. if this were to continue we would easily win the league – but surely the others are going to improve?!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1237474/Matthew-Upson-unsure-West-Ham-future-England-defender-admits-sold.html
The solution costs £60m.
Manuel Neuer – £10m
David Silva – £20m
David Villa – £30m
This would give us a new extremely talented keeper for the future, a absolute world class creative midfielder and a hardworking, proven goalmachine. (In addition to being a freekick specialist..)
I think Upson could give us some cover in case our defensive problems continue. I have always believed that if we bought Southgate after Rio got suspended, then our team wouldn’t have crumbled in the second half of the 03-04 season. But it depends on what Upson wants too. If he wants regular football every week, then Man United might not be the club for him.
@matthew.n.gravis:
It’s a lot of money for a player doubtful to cut it in the Premier League because of his size(Silva) and a player who is 29(Villa). I think the word in the summer was that United wouldn’t spend big money on player over the age of 24-25.
Lest sort out our defence first. In my opinion, we can’t talk about United being predictable and toothless in attack until we get out regular back 5 healthy. I said this yesterday, but you can’t go into battle with confidence when you feel like your back’s not covered. Even against Wolves, there was a big scare just before we went ahead.
@ Costas
Re your comment at 8.58
It wasn’t a wild drinking session mate, don’t worry!
I was there and there was absolutely no one from the team who was drunk or behaved badly.
matthew.n.gravis… if only the world worked like that!
@ Its in my blood, were you really at Rio’s restaurant?
@Fze 123
Yes mate, been there quite a few times.
My mate is the mystery silent partner, though it’s not really a big secret!
Nothing happened there to warrant any “news” though, just the rags creating a story cos it’s United.
@Its in my blood:
Thanks for the info mate. I am sure that everyone behaved themselves. I said it before. We can’t expect them to stay in the house for a week because they lost a game. That used to happen in the Hughes, Robson and Bruce days, but times have changed.
What did concern me was the thing about Kiko smoking. There was also a
photo of him smoking during his summer vacation. I hope it doesn’t become a habit of his. Same goes for Wayne. And as you said, i hope it’s the just the rags making a fuss over nothing.
Many people here are suggesting we should buy players. Honestly i dont think there is much need to buy anyone in Jan. If our form dosent improve when we get our players back we should go for players in the summer.Even in jan with City and Chelsea in the transfer market we will have to pay over the top prices if we want to sign anyone.The defensive crisis has clearly affected SAF’s plan as to how we will play this season. Saturday showed that Scholes cannot control the midfield on his own and Gibson and Anderson arent the best ones to help him. he needs Fletcher alonside to help him control the game so that Fletch can win the ball and Scholesy can ping it around. Antonio Valencia is wrongly compared to Ronaldo. He was seta target of 10 goals and it looks like he will score more than that.However his overall play and crossing in recent games has been a tad disappointing. Nani has been frustrating but now that giggs isnt fit must be given one more and in all probability final chance. The problem we face now is the lack of ideas at certain stages and lack of the magic Ronaldo provided. There are players like Giggs, Rooney,Berbatov who should do that but are not doing it on a consistent basis. The fear that Man Utd with Ronaldo induced in the opposition has reduced a bit this season.Also we need someone apart from Gigsg who can take good Set Pieces. Most of our corners are rubbish to say the least. Dont even clear the 1st defender. The fortunate part is that other teams are struggling too but we cant just hope that it will continue till we get our players back. SAF has a week to get things sorted out.Winning the next 2 games is absolutely essential. Maybe trying new formatioins in training will give him some idea. The most important thing is to get Fletcher back in midfield.
Ok, we need:
Nueuer
David Silva
Messi
Sneider
Pique (come back lad, ok? cheers)
Villa
Torres
Daniel Alves
Lennon
just to shut up all the ‘big spending’ fans
David Silva??? ‘Aboslute world class’???????? What planet are some of you on??? The guy is decent. that’s it! People act like he’s actually scored more than 15 goals in any season. Without looking now I can FIRMLY tell you he hasn’t, and never will!!
At least come up with players that:
- CAN play in -1c prem conditions
- Like Manchester United
- Don’t mind moving from Spain
and aren’t MASSIVELY over-rated!!!
Park’s Dog Dinner …. spot on. A number of my recent posts have been saying the exact same thing to the BUY BUY BUY crowd.
Sad truth is that there are very few, if any who will meet that criteria …. the biggest and most important of which is … they want to play for this club and do so at the peak of their career. ( Al a Berbatov)
From that point of view Sandanavian and Eastern Europeans are more likely candadates. Akinfeev (spl?) would fit but I’m betting the Russian ends up at Chelski, rather than us, before the start of next season.
Schadenfreude is typically translated as “taking pleasure in other’s pain”.
Quite clearly, then, ’tis the season for schadenfreude. The ABUs are getting a royal helping as TheLads struggle in defence and that injury crisis has had something of a knock-on effect for the play of the midfield and forwards. Losing to Villa and Fulham ain’t good news to anyone but an ABU.
However, for those of us who have supported UTD over the years, there are some slivers of light in the dark clouds. The RentBoyz march to world domination seems to be suffering from a bad case of sand in the engine; TheVermin’s “this will be our year” claims have been forward-dated, again; ManShitty are tying to self-destruct – and not doing a bad job of it; and TheArse are playing without any center forwards and just getting by – for now.
To get a little perspective on this situation, let’s play time-traveller – in the next ten days, TheLads play Hull/away and, after that, Wigan/home. Then there’s an FACup tie with Leeds on January 3rd To be brutally honest, if a revamped team playing a 3-5-2 = with Flectcherinho and Carrick and Ritchie de Laet making up the “3″ – can’t win those two EPL games then the doomsayers will have a point and it will be hard to deny them their gloating.
But let’s be optimistic and suggest that SAF can get TheLads to gain those six points, what’s the situation with the RentBoyz ? On Saturday/Boxing Day, they play away at Birmingham (!) and then two days later they play at home to the same Fulham side that dismantled UTD this past weekend. On their current form – one win (in six) since their victory over TheArse – can anyone really expect the RentBoyz to gain all six points from these two tricky fixtures ?
The optimist in me would like to believe that by the New Year, the gap at the top will be closer and the RentBoyz’ collars will be getting tighter. Then, of course, they will be without their two best players – Essien and Drogba – for six or eight weeks as those two (and Obi Mikel and Kalou) are off playing for their native lands in the African Cup of Nations.
So, bad as it is right now – and it ain’t great to be a UTD fanatic – this weird, topsy-turvy season is far from finished. Unless, of course, you believed that this year would be the year that LiverPoo would get their glorious 19th. The famous “fucking perch” is crowded with two occupants and I wouldn’t bet against SAF knocking them off it in May.
To be pretty brutally honest we DO need a spark to ignite us this season….we need to buy someone who can inspire everyone….i know we got some of em in our own team but they aren’t doin any business right now are they?Get in someone who can get the fans off their seats and make the opposition terrfied….and I’d be mightily pleased if we sign Hatem Ben Arfa….he’s a little cocky but a genius….one of the most brilliant truly two footed player right now…and he can come cheap as well….ship off Nani and get in this lad and we will be allright.
Scott,
You should have included Rooney also as one of the players being played out of position.I mean,he played on the left wing in the 2nd half against Fulham did he not?And this was despite Park and Obertan being there rotting on the bench.
We should use our Ronaldo money to buy back Ronaldo.
The guy literally can’t stop scoring in Spain.
We have lost all creativity without him. Anyone who claims Valencia is an adequate replacement for him is out of their mind. Valencia is not a bad player and has many qualities but his one footedness is absolutely mind boggling. How the hell can you expect to beat defenders when your only move is a fake left and a shimmy right because you can only use one foot. And also, how the fuck can he not be capable of being in the boxx for corners?? The guy is massive. Is he too big of a pussy to mix it up in the box and try to get a head on a corner kick? I don’t get it. All the Ronaldo haters who said he was soft should look at the damage he did in the box.
We have noone creative enough in central midfield. Not one of our CMs is capable fo running at defenders. If you disagree, please tell me who does?
Our left side is a fucking disaster. Giggs puts in good games when he plays, but we can’t rely on him forever and he doesn’t have that many games in him every season. Obertan has put in 2 crosses that have resulted in anything. He dances around on the ball. Takes it into the corner. Misses a cross, takes the ball out of play, or relys on Evra to do something with the ball.
Our football is nothing short of ugly. We grind out wins. Play with no flair, no creativity, no grace no beauty. We’ve turned blue collar. We’ll be passed and run off the field by teams like Barca, Real, and Bayern
RedDeviledEgg – Not like you to be so negative. Lets see how we fare with a fit back five. Show some faith man. Fergie usually gets it right but even I feel for him at the moment with his injury problems. You probably think I always “pick on you” but to be fair a few of your posts annoy me. RONALDO HAS GONE!! What should we have done, begged him to stay? When on form Ando runs at players. As does Fletcher. Seriously man what do you expect with our problems at the minute? Not just defence but Midfielders all out of position. As for Obertan were you this patient with Ronaldo? 3 games and you are slagging him. Valencia is VERY one footed but six goals in his first three months ain’t too bad. There is alot of work to be done but as ever I trust in our great manager. Just out of interest how long have you been a United fan? This isn’t a loaded question just wondering as your patience and faith leave much to be desired.
Denton – Spot on. Keep seeing the word “Schadenfreude” lately. Until 10 minutes ago I didn’t know what it meant so thank you for that.
PS Find it hilarious that someone on this blog referred to United’s “dark period” from 2003-2006!! Fuck me try following them in the Seventies and Eighties.
King Eric. Been a fan since I was aroudn 5. I’m 24 now. I’ve been through this before. I know Ronaldo is gone. It was a jab of fun. You obviously didn’t catch it.
I really don’t think Ando has the quality to change games on the ball. I see his best qualities off the ball breaking attacks, making it hell for opposition to get through the middle. His energy makes this happen. On the ball I’m still not convinced. His passing is quite often horrendous and his scoring record as horrendous. I know he’s young, but he’s gotten a pile of games under his belt already and in my oppinion he’s not that great.
I like Fletcher a lot. The guy is an animal in how he wrecks opposing attacks. However, to say that he can strike fear into defenders when he has a run with the ball is simply not true. He can blast some monster shots. But he’s not someone who can really run/attack with the ball on his foot.
Valencia could have 12 goals if he wasn’t terrified of trying his left foot. It’s insane. Even I attempt a shot or two off my wrong foot when I play. (by no means am i comparing myself with any proffessional haha)
Our defence has been hit hard of late. But our attack has been suspect all season. Always very spotty and never truly convincing. I’m just used to seeing more consistency. Obviously our injuries have hindered this, but the depth of our squad should make up for this.(bar the defence as that is ridiculous)
Overall I think we lacked creativity last season as well, but we had a certain man who could whack in some free kicks and longe range shots to get us off the hook when we weren’t playing great. I hope we can step it up again soon. I much prefer a free flowing team where the whole team contributes with attacking quality.
Red Deviled Egg – Fair enough mate. Once again I fail to get your joke! Either you are not funny or I can’t take a joke!! Only messing mate. Have to say I DO agree with most of your last post. Probably the way you worded the first one made it sound a tad harsh. However when you give the reasons outlined above I am inclined to agree with most of what you say. Lets just hope that Ando does develop into a great player which I really think he will. He has shown at times he is excellent but still too inconsistent. He is only 20 or 21 so still got the time. To be fair to the lad though some of his defence splitting passes that he does from time to time are superb. Just needs to do it more. With Valencia as I said before he never uses his left and against Villa in the first ten minutes if he could have used it we would have been one up. Really needs to work on this. I am sure he is though as I remember a few games back when the players were warming up at Old Trafford and they were making long passes to one another the only foot he used was his left. Obviously the coaches and Fergie have had a word.
King Eric. No worry. I think my sense of humor is lost on most….maybe i should reevaluate my attempts of being likable hahaha
I may add also that Kuszack has been a great stand in for VDS he had no chance on the goals this past weekend and his save earlier in the game was fantastic. He’s improved a lot with a solid run in the side
@ Park’s Dog’s Dinner – so you are saying united should never go and fight for the best players, so united should just buy players who are a level below the top class level.
– you take uniteds last 3 seasons of success how far united got in compititions, the money united earned the players united sold add the ronaldo money united could waste a phew bob, but the problem is the glazers propably used that to pay the debt that will never leave the clubs books, and a debt united should never have had. like I said united need a phew players because certain players are just not up to it.
The big problem highlighted on that list is the lack of a creative midfielder. While we may have had an amazing 3 seasons, no one can say that our midfield ever looked strong during that time. That’s why we’ve been forced to play formations that pack our midfield. Ronaldo disguised the lack of creative players to force cuts in the enemy line.
Giggs plays brilliantly when he does play. Scholesy looks like he’s run his time. Anderson played brilliantly his first season, but Fergie doesn’t seem to like him as a play maker. Fletch has been the standout player growing so much over the past seasons that I don’t think we really need Hargo any more. The problem is Carrick/Anderson/Scholes or whoever is on our wing (Obertan and a non-crappy Nani the occassional exception) rarely display consistent flair to create a cutting pass or break enemy teams open. We do a lot of passing arround or hoping a counter attack creates space for us.
20-25 mil for another guaranteed world class midfielder will make all the difference.
First post, so I want to add that this is a lovely blog and I want to thank the bloggers for their frequent updates and lovely posts.
@ rooney the new king. I see where you’re coming from regarding going after big player money related to success etc. Nevertheless I can’t think of many “media established” world class players the manager has bought. They’ve always been a rung or 2 below and then stepped up their game. It is a kick in the teeth seeing all this success and £80 million for Ronaldo and doing little with it, but we were like that pre-Glazer as well. We missed out on Ronaldo (R9) because the plc didn’t think his wages were worth it just being an example. Post-Treble lost the best goalie ever and replaced him with a fat coke snorting Australian on a free! I think we need players but the summer is the time it will happen not January. Since we’ve been in the business for not signing media established world class stars I think Klasic from CSKA is a very good shout for a Jan signing but just don’t see it. There is a lack of talent in football that is available and proven at a high level. Unfortuantely its very hard to get value for money, everybody is over priced and clubs pay fees they don’t want to pay to get the players they want. E.g Last year with Berbatov.
Main problem this year – no ronaldo, and nobody to replace him, not replace the obvious tricks, flicks, and dazzling goals, but even when it appeared that Ronnie was playing well which a lot or the time was the case the main thing that he brought to our team was the opposition feared him.
They would often put 2 sometimes even 3 men on him to keep him quiet, this obviously made more time and space for others.
This season we have valencia, who is doing nicely but nobody fears him, they just let their left back look after him therefore the rest of the team don’t have as much time and space as last season.
Berbatov just slows everything we do down, which isn’t the united way, can’t understand why we have Park in our squad when tosic is doing amazingly well in the reserves, infact Park gets a spot in my all time shite premierleague 11 along with Des Hamilton.
I really hope sir Alex knows what he is doing!!! or is this the begining of the end?
Si Marsh – Turn it in mate. “I really hope Sir Alex knows what he is doing”. I have a sneaky feeling he might just have a small clue. Get fucking real pal. Show some faith in the greatest ever manager. Sorry if I sound abrupt but it is staggering that fans STILL doubt Fergie.
ji sung park is the best player you have but he doesnt fit in with your style…..