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United Always Deserving Of Their European Success…Unlike Liverpool and Milan

I have always been a firm believer of the idea that winning the league proves you are the best team in your country. Whilst you may have good fortune along the way, there are no “lucky” winners of the Premiership. If over 38 games you accumulate more points than any other team, then you are without doubt the best team in the land.

When United stood to win the league on goal difference last season, questions were raised as to whether the success would mean as much as if you won it on points outright. Again, if when accumulating the points over 38 games you prove you have a better attack in the league, by scoring more goals than your title rivals, and a better defence, by conceding fewer goals than your title rivals, you are the best team in the country.

However, for a team to be named “the best in Europe”, the criteria is more hazy, as cup competitions are not always won by the best side entering (last season’s FA Cup final between Premiership side Portsmouth, who finished 8th, and Championship side Cardiff, who finished 12th, is testament to that). Whilst winning the Champions League is a huge achievement, regardless of how you compare in your domestic league, lifting the European Cup does not guarantee you are the best side on the continent.

When AC Milan won the Champions League the season before last, they finished 4th in Serie A (Without Juventus’ relegation for match fixing, they would have likely been placed 5th), some 36 points behind the Champions Inter Milan, with an inferior goal difference of 25.

When Liverpool won the competition the season before, they finished 5th in the league, a massive 37 points behind the Champions Chelsea, with a goal difference lacking in 46 goals.

Fortunately for United, when looking at our two most recent European Cup wins, there can be little doubt over who was the best team in Europe for those seasons.

1999 winners – Manchester United

This was the year of the unprecedented Treble, where United were the first team in English football history to claim the league title, European Cup and FA Cup in the same season. The football that side played was exquisite, brushing aside our opponents with devastating skill and exciting performances. The trophies alone are evidence enough to suggest we were the greatest side in all of Europe back then, but here is further weight to the argument.

In the group stages, United were put in with Barcelona (who, as already mentioned, won their league that season) and Bayern Munich, who were crowned German champions at the end of that season. It was a ridiculously difficult group, yet United finished top and didn’t lose a match.

In the quarter finals, United beat the 2nd best team in Italy, Inter Milan, 2-0 at home and drew 1-1 away. In the semis, we drew at home to the Italian Champions at home and beat them 3-2 away, coming back from 2-0 down. In the final, we beat the German Champions, Bayern Munich, in 90 minutes, scoring 2 injury time goals. Whilst ABUs will scorn we were lucky that evening in the Nou Camp, for me, the victory points to United’s refusal to be beaten. We wanted that European Cup more than Bayern and made sure it was us who had their hands on the trophy come the final whistle. Despite being without, arguably, our two most influential players, in Paul Scholes and Roy Keane, we battled on and claimed the victory.

Best team in Europe? United. Milan were Serie A Champions, yet won nothing else, whilst Barcelona did the same in Spain.

Games lost: 0

2005 winners – Liverpool

As already mentioned, Liverpool’s form in their domestic league that season was so poor that they didn’t even qualify by right to compete in the Champions League the following season. They lost close to 1/3 of their matches in the Premier League and weren’t even the best side in Liverpool, with Everton finishing 3 points ahead of them. Whilst there was a gap of 37 points between them and Chelsea, there were only 26 points separating them from the bottom placed team, Southampton.

Dropping out of the title race before the turn of the year, Rafael Benitez turned his efforts to the Champions League. He didn’t have a side anywhere near being strong enough to compete for the title, so rested his players in the league in order that they were fresh for Europe.

Liverpool lost to Olympiacos and Monaco in the group stages, progressing to the next round on goal difference, following a Deportivo own goal and late goals against Olympiacos in the final game.

They beat the 6th best team in Germany, Bayer Levekusen, in the first knock out round. They then went on to beat Juventus in the quarter-finals, where the club finally paid their respects to the 39 Italians who lost their lives following their fans riots at Heysel. The Italians were not impressed that the dippers had taken 20 years to acknowledge their wrong doings though, turning their backs on the Liverpool fans and whistling throughout the minute’s silence. They then went on to beat Chelsea in the semi-finals, courtesy of a Luis Garcia goal which never should have stood, as it did not cross the line. Liverpool fans claim that a penalty would have been awarded, had the goal not stood, however considering Baros’ foot was level with Cech’s head in the lead up to the ‘ghost goal’, a freekick should have been awarded in Chelsea’s favour.

In their final against AC Milan, Liverpool went in 3-0 down at half time, with the match seemingly won. However, within 10 minutes of the restart, Steven Gerrard dived in the box, earning Liverpool a penalty, which started the comeback. Liverpool finished the 90 minutes at 3-3, then went on to win a penalty shoot out.

Best team in Europe? Barcelona have an argument to claim this title, winning their league as well as the Supercopa. Liverpool? You’re having a laugh aren’t you.

Games lost: 3 (Liebherr GAK, Olympiacos, Monaco)

2007 winners – AC Milan

AC Milan were initially banned from the 2006-2007 Champions League following a match fixing scandal from the previous season. However, UEFA went back on their decision, just as they did with Porto this summer, and Milan’s undeserved place saw them go on to win the competition.

In Serie A, their inital 15 point deduction was rescinded to just 8 points, and they finished 4th. Even without the point deduction, they would have ended the season in 3rd position, 28 points behind champions Inter Milan. They won just half the league games they played and in terms of points, they were closer to the team who finished last, Messina, than they were to the champions.

Milan lost to AEK Athens and Lille in the group stages, before beating Celtic in extra time in the next round. They overcame the 4th placed team in the Bundesliga, Bayern Munich, in the quarter finals. In the semis, they lost to United at Old Trafford, before beating us 3-0 in the San Siro. Four days before this fixture, United went all out to come from 2-0 down against Everton to eventually secure 3 points in a much needed 4-2 to keep our title chances alive. In contrast, Milan were well out of their title race, so rested their best players.

However, I was supporting them in the final, which they easily won 2-1 against Liverpool.

Best team in Europe? Inter Milan have a strong claim to this title, winning the league, as well as finishing runners up in the Coppa Italia and Supercoppa. Like Liverpool in 2005, AC Milan were not even the best side in their city that year.

Games lost: 3 (Lille, AEK, United)

2008 winners – Manchester United

United won the league with more goals scored, fewer goals conceded and more games won than any other team.

With a game still to play in the group stages, United had secured their top spot in the group with 5 wins out of 5, seeing away the 2nd best sides in Italy and Portugal. In the next round, United knocked out the eventual winners of the French league, Lyon, who had won the title consecutively for the past 6 seasons. In the quarter finals, we beat Roma home and away. In the semi-finals, we knocked out Barcelona courtesy of a Paul Scholes screamer, after preventing the talents of Messi, Eto’o, Henry and Deco getting much of a look in on goal.

In the final we faced Chelsea, who were totally battered for the first half, yet were allowed back in to the game following a ball in to the box which took a deflection off two United players, before Lampard put the ball past Edwin Van der Sar, whose slip on the wet pitch prevented him from saving (as John Terry would later fall victim to). Chelsea came back in the second half and it was game on up until the end of extra time. A penalty shoot out ensued, and in sudden death, United were victorious.

Best team in Europe? United. Real Madrid (beaten by Roma in the CL first knockout round) were champions of Spain, yet won nothing else, and champions of Italy, Inter (beaten by Liverpool in the CL first knockout round), did the same.

 

The ideal way to win the European Cup is to prove you are the best team in your country before the final. However, even to narrowly miss out on the title, yet still win the Cup is testament to the fact you are at least there, or there abouts, as the European elite. The true measure of a team is whether they can compete in both their league as well as in Europe. However, the fact that so few teams manage this really adds weight to the argument that if you win both competitions, you are the best in Europe. If we look over the past 10 years, only 4 teams have successfully done this; United did it in 2008, Barcelona in 2006,  Bayern Munich in 2001 and United in 1999. (FC Porto could be included in this also, after their league and Champions league double in 2004, but the Portuguese Liga is considered weaker than the domestic leagues of England, Spain, Italy and Germany).

The only way for the team to be crowned Champions of Europe to stand for exactly that, is if UEFA limit the qualification to the top 2 sides in each league. However, with the revenue so many teams in the competition bring, this is unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever.

However, as United fans, we can proud knowing that our past two Champions League titles have come with our team going undefeated in the competition, as well as being crowned champions of England. That is an accomplishment that no one can argue with. The fact that Sir Alex Ferguson has created two different teams that can be said to be the best in Europe is a truly remarkable achievement… and he hasn’t finished yet!


 

39 Comments

  1. Patrik says:

    The article is biased but all in all I have to agree, if you’re 20-30 points behind the champions in the domestic league you just can’t claim that you’re the best team in europe. And Ferguson is the best, but we already knew that.

  2. Stephen says:

    Scott great article but a little biased!!

    But being undefeated is quite an achievement, and something we should be proud of, I was watching the penalties earlier, Giggsy’s pen was class!

  3. Lukenestler says:

    Obviously biased in terms of the content but the point still stands. This link has been sent to all my dipper “mates”, in the vain hope that they’ll finally shut up about 2005. Ugh, just thinking about that comeback V Milan makes me feel sick, I actually went out and bought a bottle of champagne at half-time, felt a little silly when the cnuts actually won!

  4. 261 says:

    Before anyone else mentions it, we actually finished 2nd in the group in ’99 to Bayern, them having lost to Brondby (who we hammered) but beaten Barca (something we also would have done if it weren’t for a shocking Rivaldo dive in the box). Nobody can say we weren’t the best team in ’99 or last year either (let’s not forget that Roma were probably the best non-English team last year); and that’s something that just can’t be said of pool’s and Milan’s “feats”.

  5. OMelhorDoMundo says:

    I completely agree with your points: how insulting is it that MIlan rest over half their starting XI the week before the semifinal against United while United are forced to play an injured Ronaldo at Goodison Park to wrap up the title?

  6. Primachenko says:

    no bitter comebacks by liverpool and milan fans? damn shame, they make my day.

  7. Aussie Kyle says:

    Come to Aus and experience real (and respectful) banter between AFL fans – none of this childish mud slinging.

    Melbourne Victory fan

  8. Matthew says:

    The trouble with these kind of articles is the author loses credibility on anything they write… bit like Ferguson with his Ronaldo tantrum whilst pursing Berbatov..

  9. the king says:

    united are the bigger club, no doubt about it! but we (liverpool) have still won more than you! he he!

  10. Oli says:

    Indeed biased.
    i think that any team who wins the champions league is deserving of it its not exactly fluke, its obvious that liverpool and milan do better in the champions league than that in the premier league, and milan and liverpool have both shown that, liverpool being in the semi final this year ,the final last year and winning it before that and something similair to that of milan they won it last year and were in the final when liverpool won it.

  11. Joe says:

    As a Liverpool fan, it isn’t easy to admit you’ve got a point. At least about 2008 anyway. Not only did you win the double but you qualified as Champions too. Not the case in ’99, though huh? So I admit, when you won the Champions League in May, you had every right to declare yourselves the best team in Europe. But since UEFA announced the seeding for this season, we have a new ‘best team in Europe’, don’t we? That’s right lads – Liverpool! Can’t argue with UEFA, can we? It’s their competition! ;)

  12. Jason says:

    Obviously this article carries absolutely no weight as its source will be completely biased.
    Like it or not Liverpool’s 2005 final was one of the greatest comebacks in football. The fact that Milan capitulated takes nothing away from the accomplishment.
    Greatest team in Europe? Argue it how you want, LFC won it and came back for the final two years later. Where were you 2005? Oh yes you went out in the knock out rounds to Milan.
    2006? you went out in the group stages.
    Deserving of European success? You have to beat the best in Europe on a consistent basis to be this, and frankly you have not.

  13. OTRed says:

    Wow i’d have thought the pool fans would be all over this by now, whats wrong? they can’t find the link that leads to the article on newsnow?

  14. stouclot says:

    It seems to me that Utd are always measuring their greatness against that of Liverpool’s. It’s funny how Liverpool only measure their’s against themselves. That is the difference, whether you like it or not.

  15. LiverpoolNYC says:

    Can agree with this, but it’s different with Euro games than the PL. All respect to United for last season, but it took them 9 year to make it back to a CL final..Liverpool was in it 2005, 2007 and a semi this year. It has a lot to do with the manager at hand. Remember that it took Feurgusson 6 years after he took over United to shape his team and win the PL..Benitez has been with Pool for 4 now going on his 5th. Ge’s great at single games like in the CL, but needs time to shape his squad for the PL.
    I’m sure most of you kids dont remember the 80′s, but there will be PL after Fergie also..

  16. Pillazz says:

    The Liverpool penalty in the 2005 final was actually the 3rd goal so it hardly started a comeback…however as a Liveppol fan it hurts to say that the writer has a very valid point!

  17. Tarmiidzi Liverpool says:

    Dear Man-U fans,

    Yes,i agree with the statement(tho its a lil bit biased)..

    but still,man united were one of the great sides..so does liverpool.milan,barca.

    yes,i agree last season was the best of europe are the best in the league. (the real best of europe)..same as the time man u won the trebble.
    Mr alex is still one of the admired manager

  18. micky says:

    fully agree, thats why Liverpool’s
    previoud FOUR wins will always
    surpass your 1 true win and 2 recent
    fragile triumphs.

  19. Jim Boukis says:

    where are you coming from. The Champions League requires you to play at your peak in a shorter period of time against the top 4 teams from leagues around Europe…
    a little different from winning a league that really is only 6 – 10 teams that could ‘title challenge’, more realistically 4. So you play 8 games against competition that is comparable, in a season, where these top notch games are evenly spread, not 1 after the other, which you can afford to draw and lose, and still take out the title….. Champions of Europe = best team in Europe…. simple, otherwise they wouldnt have a cup if you just had to finish top of your league….. you could self proclaim to be the best team in europe without a trophy to prove it….. I think this article is a poor attempt at making ManYoo comparable to Liverpool… maybe in another 3 years guys, but until then

  20. Sam says:

    european cup standings are marked on how well you do in it over the past seasons. if liverpool are top then so be it. im a liverpool fan and for us to get to the final twice and semis in 3 years then i dunno why its so hard for people to accept it, if united got to the final and lost to chelsea (fair enough a lot of pool fans would be laffing) but couldnt really critisize cos u got there end of. and we didnt. problem with pool and united fans is that they are too similar, argue til ur blue in the face but its true

  21. Red says:

    I’m a pool supporter. What a read that was. Just a tad biased, But not without a bit of truth to it, just like all good propaganda. You could argue this till the cos com home and still not resolve it.
    What I find amusing though is the whole “my team is better than you team so there”. Its like 5 year old school kids and kind of sad really. And not just Mancs on forums who do this. Its Scousers and gooner and chavs too.

  22. Marq says:

    The difference between the Berbatov case and Ronaldo case is that Man U actually put in an official bid, which Spurs can outrightly reject, but which they fail to do so, whilst Real has never yet given a hint of an official bid. I see it as Levy’s tactic of pushing up the prices of Berbatov & Keane

  23. Will Hunte says:

    You make several good points. Clearly, Sir Alex has set the bar extremely high, and that’s a good thing for all football fans. And when they won the European Cup under Ferguson, it does lend more weight, because they did it in years they won the PL, both times.

    However, while United may be one of the two most consistent teams in England, they are only ONE of the very good teams in Europe, and are certainly a long way off from being great.

    Even Alex Fergusson will tell you that in order to achieve that accolade, you will have had to have dominated in Europe, much more so than United have.

    In fact, United’s victory this year, while it certainly gives them another “notch” in their long list of achievements, only serves to vailidate Sir Alex’s pedigree as manager, not United’s greatness as a team.

    While he has managed to keep Liverpool at bay during the lion’s share of his time at Man U, there is no denying that Liverpool are closing the gap. Let’s not forget that United have only ever had one manager that has been able to lift them to the levels that make a manager legendary among his own fans (and even he did not achieve what Rafa Benitez has in the first 5 years in charge).

    Without bias, Liverpool have had 4 different managers during their time of supremacy, and while Houllier and Benitez have not achieved the heights Sir Alex has, they have still delivered plenty for Reds fans to be proud of.

    With Sir Alex saying that he wants to leave in a few years (3 at most) and with Carlos Queiros departure for greener pastures, United fans must worry about whether or not their next manager will be able to emulate their recent successes through consistency, rather than look at Liverpool’s period of dormancy (which is , incidentally, littered with trophies).

    Such attidudes can signal the end of an era, and the start of one without a domestic championship title for more than two and a half decades. But don’t ask Liverpool that. They have’nt ever had to go a quarter of a century without a title since they first won it.

    Better yet……ask Alex Fegusson. :)

  24. zekk67 says:

    I would like to point out something in the writer’s arguments. Firstly, I, despite being a Liverpool fan, would agree Man U were the best team in England last season. We were no where near that level mainly because of the infighting between the Americans. Secondly, I would say Champions’ League is a poor gauge of who’s the best in Europe as it allows the first few teams of LAST season to enter the competition, and not just the champions. Thirdly, Liverpool won in 2005 because of 2 reasons, their fighting spirit and Milan slacking in the 2nd half because they thought it was game set match. Congratulations on being the winners of the Champion’s League, but you are not the best team in Europe, mainly because you can’t determine that unless you have beaten every single top club in Europe (which goes back to my point about Champs League being a poor gauge).

  25. still-won-more-cups-than-u says:

    The shame is the article was way too long to read, but I think I get the message!

    You’ve been catching up with us for the last 20 years…Unlike you I can admit it.

    But I’ve still seen my team win more trophies than you have and that must gall, that even after the brilliance of the Fergusen years I can say that.

  26. austin reynolds says:

    the truth hurts scallies!

  27. Tom says:

    I can see what your saying but the article for me is a little too biased. If you are going to disect the scallies 2005 win then you would really have to disect our 1999 win and in fairness on that day Bayern actually could have been 3 goals clear. Janker had some great chances.As it stands the best 4 qualify from the domestic league and although we have won more than not since the Premier League began I think we have to accept that a Euro win is a euro win whether it be Porto Milan or the dippers.

    Also at games I would also like to see us concentrating on supporting United instead of focusing on bashing the scousers. I am going to OT for over 35 years now and in the last 5 years all of our efforts at times at games are put into anti scouse songs rather that getting behind the team. I know they have their anti untited songs but they only seem to come out against untied, we sing anti scouse songs ever game. Think our energies could be better used

  28. azrai says:

    2005
    its not a LUCK,we just love winning it in STYLE !!

    2007
    poor mancunian screams n shouts for a milan to beat LFC.thank god milan did i.

    p/s; even fergie hoping milan beat LFC??

  29. Atom79 says:

    Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

  30. John D says:

    Very well put together article, you nearly had me believing some of that for a while….

    I am not going to come on here and start going beserk and start spouting endless drivel comparing the merits of our two illustrious clubs (I’ve been around too long for all that nonsense) but I am going to add in a few additional points which have apparently been ommitted.

    Granted nobody is arguing you do not have to be the best team in Europe to win the European Cup, however a team still has to work hard and earn that occassional stroke of luck from time to time in any cup competition (Bergkamp unlikely missing a penalty in last minute of a cup semi-final for example).

    The treble was a magnificent achievement, you wont get an argument from me there (nor anyone who can truly call themselves a football follower), but you did fail to mention that in the season preceding the 1999 final neither United or Bayern qualified as respective champions of their domestic leagues? Isn’t this something you were knocking other teams for? Does it make that incredible comeback any less memorable?

    You have to give credit to Benitez for achieivng what he did in 2005 in what was his first full season in charge. You know yourselves how long it takes to build a club into a title winning outfit, and even more so to win the biggest of european prizes. Let’s be honest here, it took Sir a great deal longer to start landing the big prizes.

    Liverpool’s comeback in 2005 (which I was fortunate to witness first-hand) was remarkable. Us supporters know we were not the greatest team in the world that year (I mean it contained Traore!) but the team had bottle and heart and didn’t lie down no matter what obstacle was put in front of them… the sort of character your manager has instilled in your team over recent times.

    Our group that year may have contained the minnows Monaco, Deportivo & Olimpiakos, but you did fail to point out that Monaco were runners-up the year before, Deportivo were beaten semi-finalists the year before (v Porto) and Olimpiakos had never (and may still not have?) lost a home game in champions league history? This puts a slightly different slant on the standard of the group wouldn’t you say?

    And excuse me for also adding the winning Saviola goal in Monaco should never had stood, and does it truly matter whether you win by scoring in the 1st, 15th or 90th minute of a 90 minute game? Are you trying to say by scoring late that a team may not have truly deserved to win anyhow?

    Yes we drew the ‘easy’ team in the following round Bayer Leverkusen, a team who had won their group (which contained Kiev, Roma & Real Madrid) and scoring 3 in each of their home games against these sides. Lets not forget a side up until last seaon had played in a Champions League final more recently (2002) than yourselves.

    Juventus, nothing else to add they were Champions of Italy. A proven quality team. And I’m not getting into a Heysel debate either!

    Chelsea in the semi-final, yes debatable goal but again these ‘over theline / not over the line’ things happen now and again (Roy Carroll will tell you that!).
    But nevertheless the better team over the two legs went through…. By the way I’ve never even hear the most biased of Chelsea fan try and suggest it was a foul by Baros (perhaps I should take another look at the Harald Schumacher incident versus France
    in the 1982 World Cup), as maybe it was in fact Battiston who threw himself into the German keeper?).

    And finally the greatest final in europan history, what more can be said? Milan played football out of this world in first half, but maybe thought the game was won (I mean who didn’t?). But we all know football is not always straight forward, thats why we love it. Liverpool made tactical changes and ‘had a go’, and got their rewards for their efforts. Gerrard was brought down (Gattuso should have been sent off for the professional fould by the way) for the equalising goal not the first one…..

    There is an argument to be had about your run to the final last year too. An easy group (containing no team who have achieved any european success in recent times), drawing the worst Lyon & Barcelona teams in years, and as for Roma being a good side (I could have sworn I saw you lot put 7 past them only a few months previous!).

    You can only beat what’s put in front of you. All teams who win these titles get their strokes of luck during the campaign. That’s cup football.

    To sit their and belittle the merits and triumphs of two sides who have won 7 and 5 European Cups is a cheap shot. Especially when a lot of your points are flawed or untrue.

    I think the mere typing of this article shows your obsession with my team, and it’s triumphs. I for one would have no interest in compiling such a nonsense piece say comparing our league or european titles with your’s or anybody else’s for that matter? No true Liverpool supporter would be interested in it as we only have one obsession and thats our own club.

  31. Craig Mc says:

    Hahahahaha – the L’fool fans have come to crow!. L’fool and their fans renowned around the world, that must be why MUFC are always named in all official and recognised stats, as the most well known and best supported team in the world. United made Ronaldo, and United will do just as fine without him if he does go anytime soon. We want to overtake you in trophy collections, of course, that should be the aim of every premiership club, its called making history. Just like L’fool have been wanting to beat us, more than we beat you in the prem, but you never seem to manage it, do you?. Send your friends Red Dawn, we love kicking L’fool arse around here.

  32. Craig Mc says:

    Red Dawn, so is Heysel, but I don’t want to watch that, nor I suspect do you!. We realise its 5=3, 18=17, but it’s you lot that are paranoid about being caught up. If you don’t want to be caught, then that’s how it should be, that’s passionate competition, and all fans should want their clubs to remake history. I am quite happy for you scousers to keep calling us Manc fans idiots, because we have been idiots you lot haven’t been able to get the better of in the prem year after year. But as L’fool fans always keep repeating like parrots too, “This is our year” they say. Yeah right. But if your luck changes and it is your year AT LAST, then is the time to crow isn’t it?. Chelsea is buying every top player under the sun, and Kaka is supposed to be on his way to them for 76 million – feckin obscene, and Chelsea fans will have to pay through their arses. So it won’t only be us wanting to knock you off your perch for years to come, but Chelski too. LIVE with it!.

  33. Woody says:

    Craig Mc, the difference with chelski wanting to knock us off our perch is that i’ll be near retirement age when they get even close (even Everton are closer to us in the trophy stakes). Unfortunately you lot are the only ones with a chance of overhauling us in the forseeable future. But there’s certainly no paranoia involved. As you stated it’s healthy football rivalry, records are there to be broken just hopefully later rather than sooner! You’ve got every right to be happy after the season that you’ve just had (it’s a shame that your best player has taken a lot of the shine off that with the way he’s handled the Madrid situation). But for the moment whilst you’re enjoying the season just gone, remember we’ve had a lot more good season’s than anyone else!

  34. Craig Mc says:

    Woody – L’Pool fan, I can’t feckin believe it, a L’pool fan with honesty , good spirit, and intelligent debate. Must be your wisdom of years, so I won’t disrespect you. Glad you see that it’s healthy to want our clubs to make history, and rewrite the record books. L’Pool fans hope we won’t do it, United fans hope we will. That’s what competition is all about. I understand that perfectly, and I’m only all of 24 yrs old.

    John D – I could come against quite a few of your points in your post, but as it was SO LONG worded, I lost the debate part way through – sorry!.

  35. Will Hunte says:

    Well hooray for Man U!! It’s only taken them almost 20 years to make the top division in England competitive!!!! And they are still behind in all respects….good team or not!!!

  36. paddy says:

    re will hunte,while for the last 20 years you have been anything but competitive!!

  37. Woody says:

    Paddy, whilst we haven’t exactly added to our haul of league titles in the last 18 years. You are a bit wide of the mark to say we haven’t been competitive. Up until you beat chelski in the euro final we are the only team that has been flying the flag for the premiership in europe. we have won 4 European trophies since thie turn of the century (and yes the super cup is still a european trophy before you get carried away) yet it’s taken the rest of the premiership 8 years to get 1. Plus we’ve won a few other cups to add to that tally, unfortunately not the Prem as yet (But after the way we dominated the 70′s and 80′s it’s only fair to give someone else a go). Thanks for compliments Craig Mc but I’ve only got 10 years on you! I don’t normally post on fansites due to the fact the majority of posters just throw moronic insults at each other and don’t seem to know what having a healthy objective debate is about!

  38. paddy says:

    you said ‘make the top division competitive’……no mention of europe.yo have won a few cups but the league has been way out of reach for quite some time.

  39. Woody says:

    Paddy, it wasn’t me who said that ‘make the top division competitive’. But I agree with what you are saying (mostly). We haven’t finished above you lot for about 6 years. But i do think Benitez gets a bit too much stick for the league. In 2006 we finsihed with 82 points (1 behind you lot) and that was our highest points tally since the prem began i think and more points than most of our league wins. But because the bar’s been raised he didn’t get any credit for that. (still not good enough i know, but domestically it hasn’t been all bad).

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