VIDEO: Berbatov, Owen and Valencia’s Goals vs Aldershot

October 25, 2011 453 Comments

szólj hozzá: Ald 0-1 Mnu

szólj hozzá: Ald 0-2 Mnu

szólj hozzá: Ald 0-3 Mnu

Author: Scott Filed Under Antonio Valencia, Dimitar Berbatov, Domestic Cups, Match Day, Michael Owen

453 Comments

October 25, 2011 at 21:44
stpercival says:
Brilliant BerbaGod
October 25, 2011 at 21:46
dazbomber says:
Rooney and Cleverly in midfield Berba and Welbeck up front , unbeatable.
October 25, 2011 at 21:46
Pratyush says:
The first goal was class.
October 25, 2011 at 21:51
onlygodknows says:
It’s good to see United back!!!

LUHG
October 25, 2011 at 21:52
Alom says:
Awesome goals.. great to see Berba back in the mix! now get in starting in the PremierLeague Fergie!!

I missed the match.. how did Cleverly get on for the 60 mins he played??
October 25, 2011 at 21:55
StretfordEnd Ole says:
@Alom

Tom Cleverly had a hand in all the goals, played well, kept Utd moving forward.

Toni V, Berba, Vida, Jones and TC must be in contention for Sat.
October 25, 2011 at 21:58
Balaji Sivaraman says:
First goal highlighted what I meant when I said that Cleverley will improve our play in general. I still feel some people underestimate Berbatov’s value when we play close one-touch football. In that regards, I feel Berba even has Rooney beat for close control and holding on to the ball. He can hold onto possession of the ball better than any of our other strikers. Plus, some of his link up play today was exquisite. Unfortunately, as Stateside has pointed out a lot of times, because of the need to develop the youngsters, it is hard to envision Berba ever being used as much as we want him to be. Still, I would like to see him being given a run out against Everton though. His determination to prove himself to the Boss shined through today, and he deserves a chance at least for that.
October 25, 2011 at 21:59
Costas says:
Cool goals. Now win at Everton. By any means necessary.
October 25, 2011 at 22:00
GoatinaUnitedShirt says:
Im not getting over excited about Berba scoring against Aldershot of all teams but it was something I wondered after the match against City. We all criticise Berbas work rate and at times he looks too nonchalant and because of that maybe he has fallen out of favour with a few. But what the hell is Bellotelli then. Bellotalli didnt run and run and get involved. He used his ability to wait for things and used his energy wisely. Id like to see Berba get picked more often and for Sir Alex go with his original thought of Berbatov which made him pay 30million. We have to remember that Raul and Del Piero were never really that energetic and maybe we should steer away from endless running and keeping the pace of the game up and instead increase the skill level and natural ability level. Dont get me wrong, i love Rooneys gile and determination but I prefer that up front rather than letting him come too deep and never were wingers and midfielders look for him to be. Id like to see Carrick returning with his Zonal coverage. and the three winger system.
DeGea
Smalling – Jones – Vidic – Evra
Carrick
Valencia – Giggs(Cleverly) – Young
Berbatov – Rooney

I prefer only one of Evra or Fabio to play as otherwise its too short during corners. Carrick is great cover as he can play at the back should the fullbacks push too far foward and it is his natural way of thinking unlike Fletcher who tends to want to push forward. Valenci and Berbatov to start matches. Valencia, Young Giggs and Rooney to run the defence ragid and Berbatov orchestrating. Berbatov, Giggs and Valencia replaced for 3 of Nani Park , Hernandez and Wellbeck to further add pace and terrorize already fucked defenders. Force the opposing manager to think of his substitutions as a need for fresh legs at the back rather than fresh legs going forwards.
October 25, 2011 at 22:05
T4M says:
great to be winning again
October 25, 2011 at 22:09
WillieRedNut says:
Another early kick off this weekend. Tough place to go and get a result. Team Fergie picks will be very interesting. I’d like to see Park come in. Maybe start Berba and Hernandez up front. Rooney has stinkers at Everton. He didn’t play there last year. TC and Carrick in center mid. Just get the 3 points and get the hell out of there!
October 25, 2011 at 22:15
Costas says:
@willie

At least no European game or trip this time. I’ll try to come up with the stats for games following European games (and trips in particular), but it’s not good. Lets see what the manager has in mind. Berba probably won’t play given that he played until the end today, but Tom has to be a real possibility.
October 25, 2011 at 22:17
OneLove"United" says:
Great to see United back to winning ways Berbatov was class movement work rate the whole lot has to start more games for me.The defence was solid and had an easy night fryers outstanding.As for the midfield topclass pogba is terrific a mini Viera gets around the pitch and makes it look easy simple touches and passes top player.And also a mention for Ravel good show from him tonight with a few flicks if he keeps his head straight he will some player.

The Future’s bright the Future’s Red!!
One Love And That’s United.
October 25, 2011 at 22:22
slim says:
Costas

Hah ha! finally somebody makes the point. I’m not worried about their fitness per se. where i’m coming from is the reward to the team. There seems to be a mismatch. I’ll explain.

I see nothing wrong in the players bombing forward, in fact its the way the game has evolved over time. The issue i have with United doing tit these days is every one expect the marauding player to be the one responsible for covering his space,

We don’t cover each other well enough, if we did we’ d see less of players sprinting back like mad men in an effort to get the ball back. You mentioned Barcelona. Yes they do it and they do it very well. They defend as a team. No matter if the Full back finds himself in the striker position, the striker fills up the vacant spot or a winger in midfield and striker moves to cover the flank.

Now we’ve hunted down the ball . Kudos. But you need to move it quick or keep it. Hustling the ball down and not having the presence and ability to make a decision – good one will most of the time end up backfiring. It happened on sunday.

United can play any damn formation they want, apply any tactic but we’ve got to play the game a whole lot more than we have been lately.And that’s why i suggest Carrick and Berbatov should be looked on as starters.
They’re both senior experienced player and their ball playing abilities could do wonders to a middle of the park and at the back. I get the feeling Berbatov enjoys playing with the young kids , a player like him and what he does puts a spring in their step. I’d like to see Tom C and Carrick play together, i’d plunk another body in there to make it a 3 man midfield- Park maybe or even Pogba – i can dream can’t i
We’ll see how things unfold
October 25, 2011 at 22:25
slim says:
Costas

me and my self sat in the previous thread wondering why everything suddenly went quite. felt compelled to post it again . A couple of points i made have pooped up here and its good to see. Goat made an excellent point about Bibotelli and relates to the point we were making about expanding energy on the pitch
October 25, 2011 at 22:27
jayunited says:
wil keane not ready for first team for me and pogba still kinda lanky but eye-catching
combination of party-
tricks and hard work
from Mancunian Ravel
Morriso,he looks a little made to me..
October 25, 2011 at 22:29
James21 says:
Professional performance Utd. No silly stuff and 3 good goals. Good to see Cleverly back and still think Owen has a good shout for Prem Games.
Got to get a result at Everton and don’t care if our great Striker OG gets us the points.
COME ON REDS!
October 25, 2011 at 22:32
slim says:
Balaji Sivaraman

his first touch and close control is way better than Rooney’s and i’m disappointed he hasn’t learnt anything off him or maybe i should say learnt more. I said a couple of threads back that the team could learn a lot from this player. Am i overreacting from the result of this game ? Hardly, i’ve said it a number of times. His control and knowledge of the ball is as good but different to Scholes and Giggsy. Berba and Carrick as starters for me. SAF had Giggs as a starter 2 seasons ago, and it wasn’t his pace that brought him to the table. No reason not to use our best ball players. they could do wonders for our defending. All we need is a stable platform and you’ll see the like of Tom C playing more than their years . They all ready show flashes- him and Jones along with smalling and the twins. They could be doing it regularly
October 25, 2011 at 22:37
Costas says:
@slim

Sorry, I sometimes move to the new thread without looking back. No doubt, there has to be a shape that never gets lost. I actually accept that Evra will bomb forward. But only if Park is playing ahead of him, Vida is playing in defence and Carrick is playing in midfield. This is the only way Evra can bomb forward and the team can fill his gap. Last Sunday we had none of these 3 elements. Same goes for Jones’ runs by the way. I vividly remember some games earlier in the season where Carrick was so far back, he was exchanging passes with Rio as if he was his partner.

And like you said, covering each other and defending as a team (and not as individuals) is crucial. Imo it’s something we don’t work at a lot. Our mentality is to find the best players for each area (Vidic at the back and a destroyer in midfield) thinking that we can throw caution to the wind and these two will clean up any dangers. Doesn’t work like that.

And just to round up, it’s definitely equally as crucial not to surrender possession cheaply. Because at that moment we are at our most vulnerable. Anyway, Fergie must be caught between two minds now. Does he chnage tactics and adopt a more conservative approach with Park and Carrick? Or does he just start Cleverley in the hope that he will recreate the magic we saw at the start of the season?
October 25, 2011 at 22:38
Devil310 says:
For fuck sake….was that a freaking SMILE on Tony’s face?

Nah…it couldn’t be. it couldn’t be.
October 25, 2011 at 22:39
WillieRedNut says:
Costas – After the derby humbling mate, there can no excuses for a lackluster display. Everton away is always one of our tougher games. My team: DDG/ Jones Smalling Vidic Fabio/ Nani Cleverley Carrick Park/ Hernandez and Berbatov.
October 25, 2011 at 22:44
Red Life says:
I was impressed with Pogba’s passing range, he still has a lot to learn but the potenial is for all to see and getting a game against some old pro’s will help him. I was glad fergie gave Ravel a taster, just to dangle the carrot of what can be if he stick to the task.

As for Everton, i think Owen and Berba should get a start. Cleverly gives us energy and movement. Sometimes the simple thing of pass and move into space eludes our midfield, Tom does that well. He does push us forward and creates space. Flether is still suffering from that virus, he’s not got the energy he had. Anderson……best said the better. Times up.
October 25, 2011 at 22:47
slim says:
costas

SAF could do both, both ways represent the way forward, we can still use blistering pace with
Carrick and Tom C. They just have to be prepared to wait for the right time. . Weirdest thing I’ve said as a supporter, we need to slow down . Defending together is something we need to pick up as well
October 25, 2011 at 22:58
Fred says:
Why is it always an early kick off for us at Goodison Park? But it’s never an early kick-off when they come to Old Trafford. WTF is that about?
October 25, 2011 at 23:09
WillieRedNut says:
Fred – I remember an early kick off at OT, in 2007. Rocket Ronnie banged a double in. Second was a penalty, late on? Giggsy felled in the box.
October 25, 2011 at 23:16
Costas says:
I remember an evening kickoff when we beat them with a Ronaldo penalty in 09 and later in that year when we beat them 3-0 (with the Fletcher goal some folks reminded me of recently).

There’s one game that always seems to have an early kick off. The one against the scousers. What’s the deal there?

@slim

Well sometimes you have to move back before you go forward, lol. Slow tempo doesn’t work to our favor as we saw on Sunday, but at least it gives us a chance to defend better.
October 25, 2011 at 23:20
Fred says:
Hmmm… I still say it’s a conspiracy against us.
October 25, 2011 at 23:24
aimanunited says:
don’t forget that young is very good at support striker role and he can curl a ball like those goals vs arsenal, so 4-5-1.

park and roo will provide much needed energy and roo will get loads of support from tony, young, nani. The wingers trio can dribble and shoot from distance if needed while providing much needed pace for counter attack. I know this is a very attacking formation but the fullbacks doesn’t have to join the attack or if they do, carrick and clev can cover the backline…

——————-De Gea—————

Smalling—-Jones—Vida—-Fabio/Evra

——–Carrick/Park—–Clev———

Tony———–Young————-Nani

—————–Rooney——————–
October 25, 2011 at 23:31
Fred says:
Costas – I believe early kick-offs are designed to minimise the chance of rival fans drinking heavily and getting up to mischief before the game. This is why a lot of derbies (where the chance of argy-bargy is greater) are early kick-offs,
October 25, 2011 at 23:32
Fred says:
That’s what I was told a long time ago anyway.
October 25, 2011 at 23:34
Fred says:
The last United-Liverpool game that took place in the evening was the one when Rio scored the winner in the last minute and Neville went nuts in front of the scousers.
October 25, 2011 at 23:34
T. says:
Berbaclass all over! Even TC seems to still have the Berbaclass after the lenghty injury.
October 25, 2011 at 23:34
FletchTHEMAN says:
Interesting that we have scored exactly 3 in each of our meetings with them, going back to 1970.

Well pleased for Berbatov and Owen, all credit for their patience and quality. Fully deserved and some excellent strikes.

Particularly pleased for Tony Valencia
During the match heard this and that about how Tony has lost his attack edge, won’t attack anymore…they were saying.
Well Valencia can put in a cracker…. I’m saying
October 25, 2011 at 23:40
Fred says:
Oh, I remember us playing Everton in an evening kick-off a good few years ago – when Neville was getting abuse from the crowd at a throw-in, so he turned around and drop-kicked the ball at the fan!
October 25, 2011 at 23:44
Costas says:
^^When freaking Duncan Ferguson scored the winner for Everton 10 years after he did it in 95. Gaz saw red for that actually. Another player saw red, but I don’t remember who.

@Fred

Thanks for the explanation about the early kick offs. It makes sense actually. It can also be a pain in the butt when your previous match was late Wednesday night, but that’s the FA for you.
October 25, 2011 at 23:45
FletchTHEMAN says:
Fred, Think it has to do with world wide TV audience and driven by the broadcast deal. Don’t recall where I heard that.
October 25, 2011 at 23:57
denton davey says:
For a BerbaSceptic, it was impossible not to be impressed with his cool finish for the first goal and his excellent close-control and lay-off which made the second goal possible. Then, his play down the left side with ThreeLungPark (in the second half) created space for Dimmy to show why he is both the possessor of silky skills AND frustrating – he did all the hard work and then screwed the ball wide when he was free in front of the keeper. Yeah, I know, all strikers miss chances but….. just saying.

For those of you who want UTD to play a 4-2-3-1 at Goodison, I’m in agreement but I can’t see how you could favour Antonio Valencia over Nani on the right side of the “3″. Nannie has been UTD’s second-best attacking player for the past 20 months. Valencia scored a cracker but he was – again (as always) – one-footed. Leighton Baines will play him tighter than the Aldershot left back. I’d like to see Antonio Valencia played at right back rather than having him displace Nani.

Where I would part ways with the 4-5-1 brigade, however, is in playing TheWayneBoy alone, up-top. I’d partner him with Michael Carrick in midfield, behind the “3″ and give him licence to roam up-field ON OCCASION. (But would he listen to instructions ?) That would mean one of DannyTheLad or Chicharito could be used as the “1″.

I’d also favour Chris Smalling over Phil Jones at centre-back, alongside Vidic.

But we all know that Fergy doesn’t take my calls anymore so I’ll just wait-and-see – like the rest of you.
October 26, 2011 at 00:00
Costas says:
Found it quite interesting that over the last 10 years Manchester derbies have produced 6 red cards for us and just 1 for City(and that was in the 90th minute of the match). Not saying they weren’t fair (ok, maybe Ronaldo seeing red for hearing a whistle wasn’t !), but who knew we were the aggresors hey?
October 26, 2011 at 00:11
Fibes says:
That first goal is immense. The link up play between Clevers/Park/Berbatov is exactly the exciting stuff we were doing in pre/early season.

What a difference he makes.

Nice to see Ravel get on, loved his cheekiness in wanting that free kick. Likewise Berbagods silent insistance that it was his. A beautiful moment.

I know it’s only Aldershot, but I have a funny feeling our season is about to get very interesting indeed.
October 26, 2011 at 00:13
Red Nation says:
Not trying to be controversial but what do some of you lads see in Ravel.
IMO,
Pogba – will make it
Clevs – made it
Fryers – Will make it
Tunnicliffe – Will make it
Thorpe – Will make it

Morrison – Won’t
Keanes – Won’t
Diouf – Won’t

Ravel is exceptional for academy and great for reserve, but he doesn’t look on the level of other former youth players like MacEachren,Cleverley,Wilshere,Ramsey,Bannan,Henderson etc.
He looks special at times, but with his attitude and the look and aura about him he looks like he’ll either become Bollotelli or in jail.

Seriously doubt he’ll make it, looks average at times with a schoolboy spark. Good workrate though.
October 26, 2011 at 00:13
Fred says:
I also remember Ronaldo being sent off for “intent” by Steve Bennett at Eastlands when he launched himself into a tackle with Andy Cole. This after City had got away with roughing him up all afternoon – he bites back and it’s a straight red. I hated Steve Bennett.
October 26, 2011 at 00:13
WillieRedNut says:
Our record at wastelands is pretty good. Haven’t conceded a goal there since 07. In fact, it’s like one goal in 4/5 years. Be nice to go there and wop the cunts. Revenge! Clinching the title in the process.
October 26, 2011 at 00:16
Fred says:
(That comment was in response to Costas, needless to say.)
October 26, 2011 at 00:17
Fred says:
That’s the dream, Willie.
October 26, 2011 at 00:21
Fibes says:
@Red Nation

Ravel has something special. He has all the tricks, and he’s not afraid to use them. He gets goals, links well, makes intelligent movements, can go past people (not lightning quick but great acceleration). The key with him is that at times he makes the game look like schoolboy football, but I don’t think it necessarily means he’ll get found out at a higher level.

Saw plenty of him last season and what little I’ve seen of him this season suggests to me that the penny may well and truly have dropped with the lad.

While we’re on it I don’t think your assessment of Diouf is too controversial. Time is on the side of the Keanes, certainly both are still developing – definitely untapped potential there.
October 26, 2011 at 00:29
aimanunited says:
@red nation
I thought Ravel did better than pogba in this game, in CC games vs leeds scum, pogba shows nothing special as well. I’m not writing him off, just saying that there’s much more that he needs to learn. And so did Morisson, fryers, tunni etc. Premier league game are much much harder than aldershot
Clev deserves to start vs Everton, and so did park and berba. Those 3 control this game well. And I’m not sure why nobody is giving park the credits he deserved today.
October 26, 2011 at 00:32
Fred says:
Park played well, I agree! I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cleverley-Park combination against Everton.
October 26, 2011 at 00:35
Fred says:
This is my (revised) team for Saturday:

De Gea
Fabio, Smalling, Vidic, Evra
Valencia, Cleverley, Park, Young
Owen, Berbatov
October 26, 2011 at 00:35
WillieRedNut says:
Costas – The other player? Shock horror! Scholesy.
October 26, 2011 at 00:36
Mahesh says:
Thought Ravel looked better than Pogba to be honest. Came out looking for the ball all the time. Pogba looked okay at points, but usually went for the ball back or sideways. Anyways no need to jump to conclusions at this point, but this only goes to show that anyone talking of Ravel, Pogba, Tunnicliffe or anyone else having it in them to step up the first team are getting WAY ahead of themselves. These lads have a looooong way to go, and I don’t see them getting anywhere near competing for a premier league start for the next couple of seasons at least.
October 26, 2011 at 00:37
Saad says:
Berba’s really got to be given a start in the league alongside Rooney. He’s hungry and, at this moment, our most intelligent footballer now that Scholesy’s retired. We need his brilliance on the pitch, even if he doesn’t score goals. Let Chico be the super-sub and let Danny have the cups.
October 26, 2011 at 00:39
Saad says:
@Mahesh

Agree with you about Morrison and Pogba. Pogba may be ridiculously talented as people are saying, but he seems to lack that hustle and bustle that is vital for success in the Premier League. Whereas I loved Ravel’s movement and energy.
October 26, 2011 at 00:39
Mahesh says:
I would go Cleverley-Ando, Fred. I know this will get a reaction from many, but I would give Ando a go with Clevs – they looked good together earlier in the season, and I think their games complement each other, in contrast to Ando-Fletch which to me is a worse combination than even Ando-Carrick. But yeah Cleverley has to (and will) play Everton.
October 26, 2011 at 00:47
Mahesh says:
Also, agree here that Berba must start. It is clear now that all the blame that Berba gets about our tempo is nonsense. We have been playing a shit tempo for a few weeks now, and Berba hasn’t even been on the bench most of the time. I’m beginning to actually thing he is exactly what we need. In contrast to Chicha or Welbeck, who have immense talent, Berba has the brains to actually regulate out tempo from up front. He actually gives us flexibility with tempo, and more discipline. We aren’t constantly playing up and down the pitch (which turn Evra to shit) because Berba just holds up the ball so much better, and distributes is far more intelligently, which Hernandez and Welbeck aren’t as good at.
October 26, 2011 at 00:47
Red Nation says:
Based on what we hear as supporters it sounds like;
“Ravel can make it, he’s the best out of the group but needs to knuckle down and change his ways”

I doubt he’ll change his ways till he is older like 23+ and has matured, at United he will not be given the time, if he is still behaving like a spoilt hoodrat by 22 he’ll get moved on to Oldham or something.

The others look like they are mature young men hungry, Ravel’s personality is a black cloud.
Sir Alex won’t give him his time if he ain’t listening to the reserves coaches.

—My team for everton;
De Gea, Smalling, Rio, Vida, Fabio, Young, Carrick,Cleverley,Park, Rooney,Welbeck.

Wouldn’t mind dropping Rio but Evans is suspended.
October 26, 2011 at 00:53
Mahesh says:
RedNation: Purely on what I saw today, all I am saying is Ravel looks good. Whether either him or Pogba will make it, is a huuugggee unknown for me. I saw nothing in either that tells me they can jump into a premier league game and be effective for a year or two at least. Ravel of course has that extra baggage of thuggery, and if he can’t sort that out then obviously he has not chance! Hopefully a few more appearences on the bigger stages will instil some maturity in him.
October 26, 2011 at 00:54
JC says:
For Everton, I’d absolutely love to see:

De Gea

Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Fabio (or Rafael if he’s back)

Nani, Anderson, Cleverly, Young

Rooney, Chicharito
October 26, 2011 at 00:54
N M says:
What do we see in Ravel? He won’t make it ? Yeah ok. The lad has the potential to be a star. He is top class. Look at him when he came on. Just like Tom always wants the ball, always in space. Passes and moves. Drifts all over the park. Great touch. Arrogant swagger. Energetic. Scores goals. This kid can be a star. Won’t make it my arse. Long as he keeps working hard.
October 26, 2011 at 00:59
Fred says:
Mahesh – I’d like to see the Cleverley-Anderson partnership restored, and our theoritical best XI (DDG; Smalling, Rio, Vidic, Evra; Nani, Cleverley, Anderson, Young; Rooney, Welbeck) back together and given a good run of games, free of injuries.

However, I believe the chumps who let us down in the derby should be punished for their pitiful performance, so that’s why I’d like to see the players who did well tonight at Aldershot given a chance against Everton on Saturday.
October 26, 2011 at 01:03
Sparkz says:
Costas @22.37- first paragraph spot on mate.

As for tonight, I’m glad Cleverley got minutes under his belt. Goodison’s a tough place to make your first start back, but I can see Fergie giving him the nod. Preferably alongside Carrick, who I think has been missed in terms of his defensive ability and calmness in possession. If its a 3 man midfield to tighten things up, then I’d go for Fletcher in there as well. I know people said Ando’s been off the boil without Cleverley, but I think a few games on the bench for him is needed now, wake up call.

As for Berba- I’ve always said that if there’s one aspect of our football he CAN fit in with…its the one touch passing side of it. Unfortunately, as well as that, we like to play with high speed (in terms of player movement)- and this season- high pressing. That’s the side of it that doesn’t come naturally to him.

Saying that though, he showed his value to the team, not so much tonight- but in that cameo vs Chelsea. He was just what we needed that that stage- controlled, patient and helped kill the game.
October 26, 2011 at 01:10
Sparkz says:
Btw, people aren’t actually being serious when they suggest Fergie won’t play Rooney? In a must win game like that, it’d be pretty suicidal IMO.
October 26, 2011 at 01:18
Red Nation says:
Based on form and who deserves to play the squad should be;

De Gea,Jones,Smalling,Vida Fabio,Nani,Cleverley,Carrick,Park,Rooney,Welbeck
Bench: Lindegaard,Rio,Evra, Fletcher,Valencia,Chico,Berba

A part of me wants Berbatov to definitely start, he was awesome even though it was poor oppsition.
October 26, 2011 at 01:29
Sparkz says:
@Red Nation- No Young?
October 26, 2011 at 01:30
aimanunited says:
Trust me, Park and Clev CM partnership will not disappoint us united loyal fans…
subs:linde-rio-evra-carrick-young-chicha-welbeck

De Gea
Jones-Smalling-Vida-Fabio

Valencia-Clev-Park-Nani

Rooney in the hole

Berba
October 26, 2011 at 01:36
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Aim – its time we played players in their actual positions, jones is a centre half and not right back, same with smalling. they can fill in when the needs be but if not then they should gain experience from their natural positions.
October 26, 2011 at 01:38
voice of reason says:
Sir Alex is building a very versatile team, esp at defence. Iit looks like Rafael and Fabio may well contest for the right back spot, name aside if injury happens similar individual will be there on the pitch.

Smalling, jones and Evans are dead certain for the CB. How is Thorpe and M. Keane rated. Thorpe was the captain of the youth team last season, wasn’t he?

Considering Fryers making appearances at youth, reserve and 1st team (18 or smthg games this season acc to official site some while back) you have to say we may well have our very own left footed player. Blackett is very good also I presume.
October 26, 2011 at 01:40
dannysoya says:
I believe that our midfield pairing should be Carrick and cleverley. One man who sits and mops up any mistakes and another one who joins in the attack and tries to string passes together. We can’t two midfielders on the pitch who can’t defend. Berbatov is gonna have to fight to win his place but i want him to start these games so badly. he has a point to prove.
October 26, 2011 at 01:40
slim says:
Nonsense i say, The youth players are ready. the first team is not. Not enough senior players standing up to be counted to put them in, nothing to do with their ability. Look at the movement Berba made all day and when Pogba and Ravel came, especially the latter, said it before say it again, the sooner we realize we can’t play at supersonic speed the whole 90 and actually start playing the ball making use of space the better.

The young guys should be getting 20- 25 mins of primeri league games. You’ll see the spark in the eyes of Berba, Owen and Carrick. Why should they first team not look over their shoulders with the young guys bearing down their necks. This is a championship winning side and their’s a lot of quality in there but the “strong” footballers appear to be favored over the intelligent ones. Why? Because they think they can run the whole 90. Great goal by Tony V but he better start learning to use his left leg other than standing. For fuck sake, should that even be allowed.
October 26, 2011 at 01:48
Samuel - united WE stand says:
morrison will eventually be what united lack, he is not experienced enough blah fucking blah, if he is quality then give him games because i can assure you that boy has individual match winning class that united lack in midfield, he is technical ability is of a high level, same with pogba.

Of course it would be wrong to expect them to be saviours but they should get enough games in cup competitions and maybe make the bench for league games, of course their temperament will be tested as thats one of the many needed to succeed at the highest level, their potential is high.
October 26, 2011 at 01:56
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Slim – i agree with your views entirely, senior players getting complacent and having no competition, evra is one of the many culprits. its time the young players are giving minutes here and there in competitions including the league.

United currently lack imagination and creativity in midfield, cleverly seem to be what we have that has that, so why can’t the likes of morrison or pogba break into the team? hardly anyone putting in the outstanding performances to put them out, i’m tired of this experience nonsense, experience only counts when you’re actually good enoug.

lastly i don’t think valencia practices on his left foot, for a player of united it is actually worrying which in turn questions his overall technical ability, one thing though is you know what you get from him.
October 26, 2011 at 01:56
slim says:
Samuel – united WE stand

Spot on. I think i’d puke if we loaned out Pogba or Ravel. Seething Tunniclife went out
October 26, 2011 at 01:59
slim says:
Samuel – united WE stand

if Tony hammers in belters like he did tonight i’llgladly look the other way, true he gets crosses in but lately he seems he’s forced into the decision. Should be whipping it in first time or blaze past his full back and put it in. Too many touches on the ball for someone who only plays with his right foot
October 26, 2011 at 02:01
aimanunited says:
@samuel, i know what you means by playing everybody at their natural position but we haven’t really got adequate cover especially at right back. It has been a while since any united players dominate the right back position. The twins might make it but somehow they’re injury prone, and in this case if sir alex decided to rest evra, that leave us with fabio on the left and either smalling or jones on the right.
He’s not going to throw fryers or keane in EPL match at this moment.
Sir Alex really likes a versatile defender and that has been proved with JOS, brown etc previously and evans can play on the left as well.
And sometimes it doesn’t have to be a natural players to perform at any position, ie wes brown during our 07-08 double winning campaign which i think he’s the world’s best RB at that time and he’s natural position is CB.
From what i see, Jones have the attributes do a decent job at RB (just improved the crossing bit) and until somebody can make the position his, i cannot see Sir Alex stop from rotating players at right back.
October 26, 2011 at 02:07
Mr C says:
@Sparkz. No shoe-ins, no undroppables means just that. No exceptions, including Wayne. After last week’s humiliation no other policy will do. Would I play Wayne against Everton? Probably. However, in the longer term I feel Wayne needs to look develop playing in a deeper lying role to get the best out his skill set.
October 26, 2011 at 02:22
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Red nation – thank fuck you’re not a manager, you write a young player that has just made his debut off after just one game? sometimes i’m left bemused at the people on this blog, fuck!
October 26, 2011 at 02:30
denton davey says:
Slim @ 1:59: “If Tony hammers in belters like he did tonight i’llgladly look the other way”

Of course, that would be great but the reality is that if he can’t show the defender that he’s willing-and-able to use his left foot for more than just balance then any EPL-defender is going to have a relatively easy time in corralling him. The same goes for Ashley Young. AND, at the very top level, a one-footed player is going to get nullified by a “world class” defender. The challenge for UTD’s one-footed guys is not to be able to beat journeymen but to be able to beat top, top defenders – and neither Valencia nor Young is as ridiculously-talented as SirRyanGiggs who was able to do that (yeah, I know Giggs is also “one-footed” but he’s simply a class-above Valencia and Young in terms of his overall talent).
October 26, 2011 at 03:00
slim says:
denton davey

that was a tongue in cheek comment. Seen him enough to know that he won’t. It does frustrate me atimes but like i said the “strong” players seem to get the roll of the dice. check out a couple of my posts on this thread and others. Its time to start playing football. running about and kicking the ball hoping to get on the end of it is wasting the vast amount of resources available to us. Good point about Giggs, thing is watching him you’d never know. You knew he was comfortable most on his left but his stance was world class, beat his man constantly. Surprised Tony doesn’t get stick from other players and the management seems to be doing nothing about it. Tony V is widely regarded but the situation pisses me of to no end
October 26, 2011 at 04:13
sandeep1878 says:
Good morning Red Devils around the world,

i know its only Aldershot, but it was fascinating to see some slick passing, because of the arrival of Tom Cleverly?
October 26, 2011 at 04:14
KingOfStretfordEnd says:
I know right, its weird. We always play Everton away early.

Good nice solid game. Let’s keep it going. I think it’s time to go conservative, and much as i hate to pin point its time to drop ando,evra and evans. We can be patient, we’ve given ample chances but its the inconsistency that we can’t do with.

Warning: i’m gonna go Berba mode now.

Can’t put into words how much of respect i have for this guy. And there was some sort of difference to the way he played today as well. An extra responsibility and seniority. If Berba starts on Sat, i’ll be jumping for joy.
October 26, 2011 at 05:04
Ash says:
One bad result (City game) and we are pressing the panic button. Now don’t get me wrong I like Carrick and park very much but to make them regular starters again will not be a good decision. We will be again back to the same position like we were at the end of last season against barca.
I will never want giggs and carrick to start together that would be disastrous. Whatever we think of these two we have to accept they are not our future. Giggs should be our super sub and carrick should start with either of ando or cleverley and not with park or fletch in centre of mid field.
I am very happy for berba as he scored his first goal but again he should not replace welbeck. WElbeck should be a regular starter and we should not bench him.Berba and Owen are still important for our team but they are not the ones who can do it week and week out.
To conclude I will say it should be the young ones replacing the senior pros and not the other way round.
I will also say I am very impressed with fryers. And Fabio deserves to get matches even in premiership.
October 26, 2011 at 05:08
StatesideAussie says:
KingOfStretfordEnd … G’day mate. “And there was some sort of difference to the way he played today as well.” I was going to post on this earlier. He played like a man with a point to prove (which, of course, is exactly what he is). He played like he was angry — not a stupid, Wayne Rooney type of anger, but an “I’ll show you” anger. That was my interpretation, anyway. I do remember him like this once before, but the for the life of me, I can’t remember which match. I remember it was a CL match and he came on as a sub, and he played like he did today, just tore into them. It was good to see, on both occasions. There should be more of it.

I posted earlier today that I do think he’s on a hiding to nothing, because of his age, since I am sure Sir Alex is determined to push the young players through. I am certain Sir Alex wants to put the youngsters to the test, find out if they’re good enough, and if they are, get them settled in and experienced before he himself retires. And Berbatov is already 30. That said, he’s still in our squad, and if we’re not going to use him now — when we desperately need to change things up — then why is he there? I firmly believe no one should feel they have a lock on a starting position. The players we’ve been picking over the last few weeks have not been doing the business, so it’s time to give some others like Berbatov a go.
October 26, 2011 at 05:09
jesprmoses says:
I think its time Berba is given a few more chances again.He deserves it for his attitude and SAF will recognise that
October 26, 2011 at 05:14
sandeep1878 says:
KingOfStretfordEnd

Hello pal,

yeah conservative approach should be the name of the game for next few PL games until all is well..

its hard to see the class and calibre of berba is wasted on the bench, high time we gotta slot him into some formation..

we need ball holders, desperately and i honestly agree that we really need to work on ball posession..

Everton, berb scored their last season, he will behigh on confidence after last night game,

its tough visit, but nothing is impossible for us, the priority should be a clean sheet, no matter how many we score..
October 26, 2011 at 05:28
sandeep1878 says:
Ash,

totally understand your point,

i m also one for youngsters to play more,

with the kind of hsaky defense we have had so far and already 5 points and a huge goal difference down to city, Sir Alex do not want the situation to worsen, not saying our youngsters cant do, but at least till we get some confidence back, we need results, no matter whom you play in the team..
October 26, 2011 at 05:29
StatesideAussie says:
Ash … I get what you’re saying, and I’ve made similar arguments myself. You’re right, Welbeck and the other youngsters are our future, whereas Berbatov clearly is not. Having said that though, I do think you are confusing long-term strategic objectives with short-term tactical needs. Longer-term, yes, it’s all about Welbeck and Hernandez. But that doesn’t mean they have to play in every match today. And it most certainly shouldn’t mean they are automatic selections.

I noted earlier that it’s important for Sir Alex to give the young bloods plenty of time. He needs to expose them to the demands of top flight football as much as possible, to see if they are up to it. If they are, they need to get settled into it. If not, then that’s important to know too. But for them, as for any player, it’s healthy for them to feel they have to earn their spot.

The argument you raised about Welbeck and Berbatov could be used throughout our squad. Ignoring those out on loan, we have a first squad of 32 players. By the end of this season, 8 of those (25%) will be at least 30 years old: Berbatov, Owen, Giggs, Carrick, Vidic, Rio, Park and Evra. Are you suggesting that no young player shoud be benched while one of those older guys gets a game?
October 26, 2011 at 05:36
StatesideAussie says:
Sandeep … I think there’s another dimension to this as well. Our older guys are experienced and well-paid. They are, by definition, our senior players. If you can’t turn to your senior players in a time of crisis, what the hell are they there for? Now, more than ever, we should be able to turn to those guys and DEMAND that they step up to the plate. Yes, we need to keep bringing the youngsters through. Of course we do. But how much sense does it make to put this on them — the ones who have little experience, and are not paid as much — to get us out this current malaise, while keeping our highly paid seniors on the bench (presumably because they’re not good enough?).

if it was me, I’d say to the senior members: “You guys are supposed to be the ones who have been around the block a few times, the ones who have ‘been there, done that’, and the ones who earn the big bucks. The ones who are supposed to know how to do the business, and who can lead by example. So get your butts out there and prove it.” And if I didn’t want to do that, or felt that I was better off by calling on the youngsters, then I’d seriously be considering duming 8 or 9 senior players off the payroll as soon as possible.
October 26, 2011 at 05:53
sandeep1878 says:
StatesideAussie,

yeah you put it in better words,

yeah if not in crisis times then we gonna use them,

evevrything said and written,

Sir Alex Ferguson will look forward to pulling some solid defensive performances from the team,

we need that in all honesty because we have been scoring almsot 3 goals per game,

but when something like Sunday happenes, the confidence will taka a blow and although these kind of stumbles are expected during a transition, the vital point is not to worsen the situation,

no matter even if we have to grind some results in the next few PL games, its important that defense goes backl to basics, the ball posession can be beneficial for thsi to happen..

so i dont care even if we have to slow down our tempo ion the next few games, dont lose the ball and dont panic, take it game by game.

i know its JUST ONE LOSS and the FIRST OF THE SEASON, but that doesnt mean we have been pulling powerhouse performances which are our trademarks,

this team eventually will be there, hope others do not mistake me for panic, all i want is, in current circumstances its better we went ahead with conservative approach, espiaclly when it comes to defending,

18.7 shots per game we have conceded this season, highest by any PL team, i know young defenders, too many positional chnages in almost every game, but the hell did we have such high shots conceding rate? no thats not Manchester united way and Sir Alex’s top priority was, is and will be a solid and constant back four, in the mean time we will get just that, because we know what 1-6 means to Sir Alex ferguson, his interview is sufficient to understand..
October 26, 2011 at 06:04
sandeep1878 says:
Agreed Welbeck should be starting,

in all honesty we havent give a chance to berbatop this season,

pity for a class and caliber of berbatov to be benched time and again, without even being tested..

has there been any such ordeal of player in the immediate season after he finished the previous one as the league’s leading scorer?
October 26, 2011 at 06:16
sandeep1878 says:
Kings, King Eric and smartalex,

come on folks, its high time you hit the ROM..
October 26, 2011 at 06:24
RedHound says:
Here’ss a link for Ravel Morrison’s performance yesterday
October 26, 2011 at 06:54
CedarsDevil says:
Just watched highlights of the game and it was a pleasing performance….Yes it was only Aldershot but the difference Clev makes is very evident, the kid’s passing and movement is superb and he is very creative. We have missed him…. I hope his run out yesterday means he will start against the Toffees preferably along side Carrick
October 26, 2011 at 06:58
bayobuya says:
Nice to see a Berba-peformance again. Im not saying the striking perking order must change but surely Berbatov deserves a few call ups even if its from the bench in some matches!
October 26, 2011 at 07:00
RedHound says:
what the heck happened to this?
October 26, 2011 at 07:07
CedarsDevil says:
RedHound

Terrific player no doubt, just too bloody inconsistent…. Must be something wrong with his head!
October 26, 2011 at 07:09
CedarsDevil says:
Might not be too much of a consolation but it does bring a smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWYcYTX50bc
October 26, 2011 at 07:18
CedarsDevil says:
Have to get this off my chest, it may sound silly or appear as words written in denial but I do not care…

We were not thrashed on Sunday, we collapsed… Especially in injury time. The match was not a 6-1 difference between 2 teams on the pitch… When we beat Ipswich 9 nil that was a thrashing, when we lost 5 nil at Newcastle that was a thrashing…

I may be blabbering here but if you watch the first half again then in no way you would have expected that final score…..

Football gods do exist it seems and on Sunday they were all at the pub getting boozed up and forgot all about us
October 26, 2011 at 07:19
sandeep1878 says:
Hello CedarsDevil,

how are you my red friend,

thanks for the link, it did bring a smile,

that man cantona such an aura and class around him, King Cantona is the word..
October 26, 2011 at 07:25
Costas says:
@Fred

Didn’t like Bennett either. I didn’t consider him an ABU. He was just a shit referee and a dictator at times. He could be right about a decision, yet his manner would rile up the player. He had a hand in Vieira acting like a lunatic after his sending off at OT in 2003.

I do remember that Ronaldo red. It was typical of these games. They got in our faces and then we reacted poorly. At least Ronnie was mature enough not to retaliate after Ball stepped on his chest the following season. (No red card for ball by the way. Not even a foul was given).

Then there’s also Neville’s red in 04. Not a harsh one, but why that WUM McManaman didn’t also see red is beyond me.

@willie

Haha, of course. How could I forget?
October 26, 2011 at 07:25
anto muri says:
Come December and city are in for a run of their money;
3 , 15:00 Manchester City v Norwich City Premier League
7 Dec, 19:45 Manchester City v Bayern Munich Champions League
12 Dec, 20:00 Chelsea v Manchester City Premier League
18 Dec, 16:10 Manchester City v Arsenal Premier League
21 Dec, 19:45 Manchester City v Stoke City Premier League
26 Dec, 15:00 West Bromwich Albion v Manchester City Premier League

Very tough period for City.. this is when united will gain points and City will drop.
October 26, 2011 at 07:27
CedarsDevil says:
Hello Sandeep

Indeed Cantona was a King at OT….. He is largely responsible for all the success we are still enjoying today….

A true United legend
October 26, 2011 at 07:28
Costas says:
@Cedars

Definitely more of a collapse than a thrashing. I mean, even Stoke would have scored 3-4 goals in those last 15 minutes. City players were counter attacking us at OT while we were down to 10. Says it all about our suicide approach. We were even giving away their corners for fun.
October 26, 2011 at 07:37
CedarsDevil says:
Thanks Costas

I sort of feel a bot better now!
October 26, 2011 at 07:39
CedarsDevil says:
Errr Lot not bot!
October 26, 2011 at 07:42
Costas says:
Well we kjnow you are a ro-bot in real life Cedars. Good day by the way.
October 26, 2011 at 07:44
CedarsDevil says:
Good day to you too my fellow typo red loving friend Costas…

kjnow?
October 26, 2011 at 07:50
Costas says:
It’s a day of typos.
October 26, 2011 at 07:52
CedarsDevil says:
Infeed it is hahahaha
October 26, 2011 at 08:00
CedarsDevil says:
Does anyone here remember Jan Molby? Now that was a player you just loved to hate and I hated the bugger……Fat bastard too
October 26, 2011 at 08:08
RedHound says:
Good thing Carrick didnt play on Sunday, he’d have a mob outside his house right now
October 26, 2011 at 08:17
Sabada says:
@ash am sorry pal i dont agree with you that berbatov is not a week in week out player.
Common this guy is the PL leading scorer last season.
He deserves a fucking chance.
October 26, 2011 at 08:22
utd_fc says:
I’m all for developing our younger players but this is a 30 mill pound striker, one who was the highest scorer in the league last season, his attitude after this cold shoulder has been top notch, and if anything, its fueled his desire to be among the starting 11 again. If nothing else he should be used for some of the mid table teams even to be substituted in the later stages of the game, but his exclusion is just disrespecting this worldclass player with a world class touch, and a world class attitude to boot.
October 26, 2011 at 08:24
CedarsDevil says:
Sabada

Agreed! Hurts to see the guy on the bench every week…. I am sure he will get his chance at some stage, its a long season.

The boss knows best though
October 26, 2011 at 08:26
CedarsDevil says:
Guess some reds are craving a Berbagasm….

Me too!
October 26, 2011 at 08:34
CedarsDevil says:
Kings – I miss you buddy
October 26, 2011 at 09:06
Sabada says:
Yes cedarz, the guy is terrific
October 26, 2011 at 09:08
Mikekelly12 says:
Morning all
Just been catching up on the posts. A lot of strange line ups for the Everton match based by in large on one game against Aldershot?! That said I do agree with the people wanting to give berba an opportunity. I mean look at the amount of opportunities Anderson gets after poor performances! I also agree it’s time to tell Evra that his place in the team is not guaranteed anymore. His run of form has been terrible. The problem is we only really have 1 replacement who is more often than not been injured. Fryers however, has been solid in both starts.
Cedars
I remember Molby mate, Dane with a scouse accent!! But boy could he pass the ball. He was like a Danish/scouse koeman. Ask him to run for you though and he’d tell you to fuck off!
October 26, 2011 at 09:20
Sabada says:
My line up against everton
degea
fabio smalling vidic evra
nani cleverley anderson young
rooney berbatov
October 26, 2011 at 09:25
kanchelskis says:
IMO Cleverly has to start on Saturday. He looked like he’d never been away yesterday (albeit against Aldershot), and had a hand in two of the goals.

What’s so refreshing about Cleverly is his movement AFTER passing the ball. As soon as the ball has left his feet, he’s on his toes, finding space and is ready to receive the ball again in two seconds. His passing is invariably short (doesn’t try the Hollywood passes like Anderson), but his movement means the ball gets moved forward that much more quickly and we get men over in dangerous positions.

I know we don’t want to shoulder the lad with too many expectations, but I seriously think he can at least re-inject that dynamic thrust that we had at the start of the season.
October 26, 2011 at 09:36
ironbrand says:
Hello RoM…Its a good day to be a Red once again. I’m jerking off on Berba’s performance last night. Glad to know he’s getting his due for last night on here.
October 26, 2011 at 09:37
Samuel - united WE stand says:
what berba done last season is history, what matters is now. don’t go all sentimental because he was the JOINT top goal scorer in the league with tevez, like every player he should get into training and put in the performances because competition is intense, lets see if he gets a chance at everton.
October 26, 2011 at 10:03
sandeep1878 says:
Mike..

Hello pal,

agreed on Berba

#########

we have been conceding for run and the average shots taken on us is huge and highest in the PL so far, also agreed De Gea has made highest saves,

the problems in defense are not as easy as they look,

make no mistake, Smalling still has to learn, agreed had flying first season, Evans should be the wake up call after his flying start to UTD career,

well coming to the point,

De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Fabio – These all are great players but the real test of them hasnt happened on the long run yet and i firmly believe this is the vital transition that might take sometime to reach the peak – pateince.

second,

Rio-Vidic – Evra

this season either they are supsended or injured or horrible form (now we dint recieve the service of core metal of the defense ).

exit of VDS-JOS-BROWN-HARGO-RedNev in one season..

Vidic and evra 30 and Rio will turn 34 – The question remains if Sir Alex will go for an experinced defender..

there are lot of problems because of not having a solid and constant back 4, we have heard RedNev talk about how much Sir Alex wnats to keep the back 4, that hasnt happened, in the sense we havent had the players in top form or experience..

i m starting to fear of Rio..Vidic has age on his side even though he is 30,
October 26, 2011 at 10:19
Samuel - united WE stand says:
i honestly think we have a quality batch of young players coming through, once we had the likes of bardsley, simpson, lee martin, dong, cathcart, pugh, frazier campbell who basically weren’t ever gonna make it at the highest level but least they could do is make a name for themselves in the league and they have.

Compare those with the one’s we have coming through now and already in the team. jones, smalling, cleverly, welbeck, rafael & fabio (two peas in a pod), even evans if the sendin off hasn’t crushed his already fragile confidence.

And then you look further down, we have pogba who i think will became a quality all round midfielder, he can do everything and can score screamers, its only a matter of time before he breaks in, people expect him to bring magic within two sub appearances, he is a young player still developing his experience and game, no doubt he’ll come good and you see why le havre wanted to commit suicide because of his departure.

Morrison as wel, natural talent is something you can’t buy, he has that in abundance, i watch the boy regularly and he has class, that sort of class that only a rare few are blessed with. he is intentive, imaginative, skillful, a match winner judging by one of his many quality goals against bolton, only a matter of when he breaks in, there is also tunnicliffe on loan who looks like the reincarnation of roy keane.

I’m not saying they should be thrown in straight away as this league is hard but they should be introduced gradually, barca have brought through their own fantastic young player who are literally telepathic, perhaps we can hopefully be the same? the future is bright even though i reiterate, they’re inexperienced and need time.
October 26, 2011 at 10:41
sandeep1878 says:
Samuel

agreed mate, we have enough quality young players coming through,

but we gotta wait for the transition to complete,

next 2-3 years will testing, tough, exciting and suprising years for young guns and fans..

agreed about Pogba,

he is still 18 years and we are expecting the world out of him,

nothing wrong with expectation but we have to be patient,

we all have experineced what happened with Gibbo, Fletch, nani etc..

another 2 years and we will see the best from the lad..
October 26, 2011 at 10:43
CedarsDevil says:
Its always a good day to be a red…..

Mikekelly

Still hated him though as good as he was! A Danish version of Souness hahaha
October 26, 2011 at 10:47
Mikekelly12 says:
Morning Sandeep & Samuel
I thought Pogba and Morrison did ok in the short time they were on the pitch. Not ready yet but they look like they’re progressing in the right direction. I thought Fryers was composed and assured and defended as well as I’ve seen Evra defend this season. I realise it was Aldershot but he looked very comfortable. Evra has really disappointed me this season so far bar one game where I thought he was magnificent, but I really think he owes us all a string of good performances!
October 26, 2011 at 10:49
Mikekelly12 says:
Cedars
Morning pal. Yep, hated them all!
October 26, 2011 at 11:08
Red Nation says:
I have not written Ravel off, he just has to prove himself before its too late (21/22 years). He doesn’t look the type to change but if he does he can become a decent attacking mid.

I think during the december run in Berbatov will play more games. We will have a match every 3/4 days, so he has to start alongside someone young like Welbeck or Chicharito.

Its our 1st loss of the season, it probabably be the worst including champions league. To be realistic, we are not strong enough for the CL final this year. Bayern,Real,Barca,Chelsea have better chances than us. We are the equivalent of Arsenal’s threat because we now have a young squad.

The premier league shold be our only target and one off the domestic trophies.
October 26, 2011 at 11:13
CedarsDevil says:
Putting my scouse cap for a minute (yuk) How good was Souness to be fair?….. Fucking hard as nails with great imagination too…. As good and tough as he was our Robbo always made him piss his pants so how good was our Robbo?

I am sorry to constantly go on and on about Robbo but you guys have no idea how much I love the man
October 26, 2011 at 11:16
sandeep1878 says:
Mike

Morning buddy,

Hmmmmm, letsee what happenes with Evra,

we had very painful consequences after the Wes brown own goal at Anfield,

i fear few of the players are up for Sir Alex’s wrath..

i m glad that what happened on Sunday, happened real earlier, wake up call or call whatever we want, but at least we know what are the areas we have to adress..

December is when we kick on and i think we will see different attitude and approach from the players now,

not giving up and never say die UNITED team is about to embark all again..

##########

Just out of curiousity,

Cleverly is back and so is our slick passing and movement (even if it was for short time)..coincidence?

as i had put a post last week regarding the highest percentage of passing in the final thrid by our midfielder in the games against Arsenal, Spurs and west brom goes to Tom Cleverly..

the lad is back and we are glad, i m sure he will start at goodison park coz he would anyday love to trade his skills against Rodwell there..

Tom to start…
October 26, 2011 at 11:17
CedarsDevil says:
Mikekelly

Do not hate them as much these days to be honest….. Back in the day the bastards just won everything so part of it was jealousy I guess!

Hate would always best describe how I feel about Leeds
October 26, 2011 at 11:19
CedarsDevil says:
Sandeep

Our Thomas is slick, King Eric and myself shouted our brains out all summer about the lad and that was for a valid reason…. We have a gem on our hands and he will soon become a great
October 26, 2011 at 11:19
Red Neck says:
CedarsDevil
No need to ever apologise for praising Robbo. Legend.
October 26, 2011 at 11:20
dazbomber says:
A midfield of Young Rooney Cleverly and Nani , has skill flare and speed . Rooney drops to deep when he’s upfront I think him and Tom would be brilliant both skillfull and intelligent footballers. This would allow Berba to play with who ever the team we are facing weekness ie slow at the back play Hernandes, big at the back play Wellbeck and so on . We would then have move skill on the field and more goals in the team.
October 26, 2011 at 11:25
CedarsDevil says:
Red Neck

Cheers my friend……Those who watched him play understand where I come from, just do not want to bore the younger ones that’s all
October 26, 2011 at 11:32
RedHound says:
Why do i get the feeling that mistakes against City are the one thing Fergie finds hard to forgive? Ever since Berbatov, last season’s top scorer, missed those sitters against City in the FA cup,he has dropped(not even gradually) instantly to levels we couldnt have thought possible as he scored that overhead against Liverpool. If we are to go by this precedent then Johnny Evans may not feature again as much he has this season. If he does, then Fergie has an incredible lot of faith in him(what with Phil Jones breathing down his back) and as such,his mistake against City will only be a lesson learnt on his syllabus. I cant help admitting i find some truth in the general view that there’s always a mistake in him. Then again if it had been Vidic it wouldn’t have been the same reaction, it would just have been a “rare mistake”
October 26, 2011 at 11:35
kanchelskis says:
@dazbomber

That’s suicidal. You can’t have 6 players on the pitch who are fundamentally attacking players. At least one of the midfielders has to be experienced and comfortable with protecting the back 4 and winning the ball.

The priority with the midfield – for now – has to be figuring out who Cleverly’s ideal partner is. Early season displays suggested it was Anderson, and I think we might see those two in tandem at Goodison on Saturday.
October 26, 2011 at 11:35
sandeep1878 says:
Cedars,

we certainly do have a gem buddy..

dazbomber,

Hey mate,

that would be some interesting formation putting rooney in midfield,

i also have to to agree that that is where he oplayed most of the minutes in the game against City..

#########

i think Valencia will start on the wings against Everton..or right back..
October 26, 2011 at 11:37
RedHound says:
Why do i get the feeling that mistakes against City are the one thing Fergie finds hard to forgive? Ever since Berbatov, last season’s top scorer, missed those sitters against City in the FA cup,he has dropped(not even remotely gradually) instantly to levels we couldnt have thought possible as he scored that overhead against Liverpool. If we are to go by this precedent then Johnny Evans may not feature again as much he has this season. If he does, then Fergie has an incredible lot of faith in him(what with Phil Jones breathing down his back) and as such,his mistake against City will only be a lesson learnt on his syllabus. I cant help admitting i find some truth in the general view that there’s always a mistake in him. Then again if it had been Vidic it wouldn’t have been the same reaction, it would just have been a “rare mistake”
October 26, 2011 at 11:42
RedHound says:
holy christ my browser is messed up.repitition
October 26, 2011 at 11:44
CedarsDevil says:
How football has changed eh? From a spirited die hard sport to a money grabbing agent run game… Such a shame

When Robson signed his first contract at Albion he was on 28 pounds a week… 28 fucking pounds, a time when I used to get a lot more as bloody pocket money from my parents….

A time when players gave their all on the pitch, no such crap as image rights or advertisement bullshit, it was all about the game and pleasing the crowd. Let us just entertain were some of the words used by the late Sir Matt, we are here to give people something to smile about and the players at the time understood what that meant….

Yes times have changed and so has the game….. Its sad in a way, sad that the younger generation of supporters will never see players truly spitting out their guts on the pitch instead of play acting and waiving the card sign at the ref. We just accept it and move on I suppose but football will never be the same
October 26, 2011 at 11:45
Red Nation says:
I do not blame Jonny for the red card, I blame all the 11 players.

Imagine Jonny let Mario run free, we would have been 2-0 down and Evans would have still got slaughtered. Evans made a split second decision, take 1 for the team and give them a free kick or be 2-0 down, which at the time looked like a disaster with 11 men on.

Rio in the same postion would be too slow to catch Bollotelli, then it would be 2-0.
Vidic would have dragged down Mario for a penalty and a red.
Jones + Smalling – God Knows.

I blame the 11 players for allowing such a situation to happen. The defence has been aweful for months. Time for some consistancy and solid back 4. Sir Alex should have clamped down on this poor defence after Benfica, but he allowed the defence + Midfield to walk around with sky-high confidence despite performing so badly.

The manager despite his sucess is not immune to mistakes, neither are the experienced heads.
Drop Rio + Evra, fine them a weeks wages, make them do charity work and let them train with the reserves for 2 weeks as punishment.Sir Alex is now more aware that he himself cannot get complacent.
October 26, 2011 at 11:46
Red Neck says:
CedarsDevil
The younger fans on here will understand I’m sure. After all not many of us on here would have seen the babes or Best, Charlton, and Law, but we still can appreciate them. Every generation has there own idols. I loved Robbo, he was my boy hood idol too. You really had to see him play to see just how special he was. He looked great on telly but he was unbelievable live wasn’t he. Covered every blade of grass and never stopped battling. He could change the tide of a game with a crunching tackle or two and suddenly we owned the midfield as the opposition retreated. God I wish we still had him now.
October 26, 2011 at 11:47
kanchelskis says:
Red Nation

No way. When the ball was played there was no risk – Evans was ball-side of Ballotelli and shouldn’t have had any problem intercepting it. For some reason he froze and Ballotelli got on the other side of him, which is what led to him panicking and bringing him down.

There really is nobody else to blame but him for that incident.
October 26, 2011 at 11:56
CedarsDevil says:
Red Neck

Well said, in fact brilliant….. Watching him live made me proud to be a follower of this great club….

His performance against Barca in the 3 nil is beyond description, I am not fit enough to write about it and that is a tiny example of what the great man did for our club….

It was a privilege watching you Robbo, hope you are in good health buddy
October 26, 2011 at 11:57
RedHound says:
When did Charity Work become a punishment? Rio would enjoy it anyways, he loves the spotlight
October 26, 2011 at 12:01
voice of reason says:
@Samuel – united we stand

We are lucky in the sense that we are blessed with so many talented youngsters coming through all across the field. Apart the the 1st team refulars:
GK – Amos, Johstone. May end up as reliable backups if not first choice.
DF – Apart for the established ones we have Fryers, Thorpe, Blackett, M.Keane.
MF – This is the area to drool upon. So many talents all different as a player. Morrison, Pogba,
Tunnicliffe. May as well add Cole, Brady, Petrucci.
ST – W.Keane, Cofie, King.

Often supporters neglect the fact that Sir Alex has not much time left. That will be a sad day but it is a certainty. His biggest challenge this few years is to integrate all these youngster into the team, the regulars to gain experience and the oldies to phase out. All this keeping United competitive. Challenging for every trophies

Also keep in mind Sir Alex builds a team that last an average of 5 seasons. Buying may solve our current problems but what about the youngsters. The future may be harmed.

On other note
The common understanding was that Sir Matt Busby was training Roger Byrne to be his successor but fate had other ideas. Maybe building a team post Munich and aging he never got to deal with it when he eventually retired.

Sir Alex has no such worries, the squad is still strong. Obiviously he has someone in mind as his successor its only guess for us but how I hope that some one is Ole.
October 26, 2011 at 12:08
dazbomber says:
@Kanchelskis – it could not get any worse than Sunday , Footballers know when to push up and when to stay and cover they don’t need labels saying defensive or attacking . Barsa move as a unit all over the place . Good football is flowing
October 26, 2011 at 12:08
RedHound says:
i still find it amazing that Molde haven’t won the league in their 100 year history and Solksjaer is on the brink of doing it in his first season
October 26, 2011 at 12:11
CedarsDevil says:
I admire every United player that ever wore the shirt, however from our current squad I have a list of players that I simply love with all my heart…. Nothing against the rest of course

Giggs, Fletcher, Cleverley, Welbeck,and Evans.

No prizes for guessing why…. As I said though I love all that wear the shirt
October 26, 2011 at 12:12
TheCANTONA says:
@red nation
No need to overeacting like that…
October 26, 2011 at 12:17
Red Neck says:
Voice Of Reason
Ole would be a very popular choice with a lot of fans I think. Personally I would love to see him take over when the great man calls it a day. Don’t no if it will ever happen but you never know. If Ole continous the way he has started his managerial career and the timing is right then watch this space.
October 26, 2011 at 12:18
CedarsDevil says:
If my maths is still in check Ole & Molde need just 2 more points from 3 games to be champions…

Get in there Ole ! For fucks sake
October 26, 2011 at 12:19
kanchelskis says:
@dazbomber

Don’t need labels? Cool, we’ll just put Macheda, Owen, Park and Anderson at the back then shall we?

Berba, Hernandez and Rooney are forwards, Cleverly is an attacking midfielder, and Young and Nani are attacking wingers. I’ll say it again – that would be a suicidal front 6.

You mention Barca. For a start, our players aren’t as good as theirs. Secondly, Busquets is a deeper-lying player than any of the 6 United players you mention.
October 26, 2011 at 12:27
voice of reason says:
@CedarDevil

You would love a United squad full of youth products won’t you.

Sir Matt busby said of the Busby Babes, “They are that good I would sit and watch them play” somewhat like this. How I hope we have a team similar to the Great Busby Babes.
October 26, 2011 at 12:32
CedarsDevil says:
voice of reason

I would indeed! As I said though, nothing against anyone who wore the shirt though…

Great quote by Sir Matt
October 26, 2011 at 12:34
Costas says:
Saw some discussions about Evans’ red. He’s probably made a mistake in letting Balotelli get into a better position (but he was hardly the first defender that was guilty of this on the day!) and after that you make a choice really: 0-2 with 11 v 11 or 0-1 with 10 v 11. Not an easy decision to make in split seconds. But even before that, questions have to be asked about the way City caught us napping in the whole move. The pass to Balotelli was too easy.

Anyway, what’s done is done. I find a bit of an irony in the fact that we are now going to Goodison. Until last Sunday, the Everton game last year was the last time we conceded two in injury time.
October 26, 2011 at 12:36
Red Nation says:
Rio + Evra have gone from the worlds best in their positions to aging has beens. Both show glimpses og old form but are on their way down. They could do a Giggs and recreate themselves but are deluded to thinking they are still 25.

Don’t tell me form is temporary class is permanent, when Rio has been dead and out since 2009, Evra has been a shambles since 2010. Both talk the talk and crawl the walk. Evra always has big things to say and never backs it up, he;s only vice captain because of his big mouth.

I support United, not Team Rio + Evra, they have years ahead of them yes, but not as our 1st choice. Too long has Evra played with No competition. Too Long has Rio played without the fear of being dropped.

All they have now is big words….no substance behind their old legs. Keep them for leadership and play the others.

O’shea,Brown,Harg,Neville,Scholes,VDS went before a major dip in ability. So should Rio and Evra.
Cash in !
October 26, 2011 at 12:38
Costas says:
And like RedHound said, thank God Carrick wasn’t playing. Lynch mobs outside his house wouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination.
October 26, 2011 at 12:42
CedarsDevil says:
Costas

Never mind his house, just imagine the crap written here about it!
October 26, 2011 at 12:55
wayne says:
Red Nation both Rio and Evra have been top reds,if you think their both past it fair enough,don’t think there’s any reason to slag them.Injuries have caught up with Rio and to say Evra is only vice captain because of his big mouth is not right mate.Evra has taken Utd to heart and is a red.
Give them the respect both deserve,Sir Alex picks the team not the players.
October 26, 2011 at 12:56
Costas says:
@Cedars

That’s pretty much a given. He would even get blamed for Evans miskicking his opportunity, lol.

Off topic, but I often found King Eric’s perspective on defeats even more interesting than when we won a match. I really wish I knew what he thought about the City game.
October 26, 2011 at 12:58
Denise Williams says:
Ash to be fair nobody is saying Berba and Owen should start week in week out. However what I and others on here would like is to see them given a fairer crack of the whip than they are at present. Surely they could be given a run out against the poorer sides in the Premiership. Is that really too much to ask. They are both fantastic professionals and I do not think it is fair to take advantage of their good attitude.
October 26, 2011 at 13:13
Costas says:
The sad thing is that no matter how hard Owen and Berbatov try, Fergie (from the start of the season) has drawn a line under Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck. The only way the former two will start in a major game (aka Premier League or Ch.League) is if two out of the latter three are missing. Other than that, form doesn’t seem to matter a great deal by the looks of it. Personally I think that Fergie should be more flexible about his strikers’ rotation. Plus, I think yesterday illustrated that there was no need to keep 7 strikers around. You think Owen and Berba had it bad? Diouf could only get a game as a left winger (how much can he impress there anyway?) and Macheda was nowhere to be seen. I have to feel for those 2 as well.
October 26, 2011 at 13:18
wayne says:
It’s no secret i think Berba should be getting games,Danny and Hernandez are great talents,Berba is the finished article,gives Utd good shape,holds the ball well and brings others into the game better than anyone in the club.His control must rate close to the best in the world,was Utds best striker last year when dropped,i find the whole thing baffling.Last year Hernandez was getting picked because of his great goal poaching,Owen is a great goal poacher regardless of age,why shouldn’t he get picked if he’s the one in form.I don’t agree either with give him games against the weaker opposition,the opposition is irrelevant if he’s putting the ball in the net
Utds team has never been picked on favoritism always merit,noticed recently the word undroppable has started making it’s way in comments,that’s not good no one should be undroppable.
October 26, 2011 at 13:19
Paul Parker says:
Good to see Berbatov scoring. Two penalties aside I think Rooney’s gone off the boil a bit, and I think Dimmy should be brought in to freshen the place up, even if its only for his link up play. Rooney often responds well to being “rested” when he’s not injured. Eitherway, we need to change something up front because against Liverpool and City we created enough chances and had enough possession in the final third to win both matches. As much as the midfield is getting stick, nobody can deny they still created chances that went begging. Lets see Berbatov ffs, at least his control, distribution and finishing in the final third is top drawer. Thats what we need right now.

Brilliant seeing Cleverly back as well – people might want to stroke their Schandenfraude, but our best football this season has been with Anderson and Cleverly in the middle. They are both as dynamic as eachother, and both prefer to play one touch football as it comes natural to them, unlike our more experienced midfielders. Great to see Fletcher get a consolation goal, and Carrick has put in some top performances, but our best midfield this side of Scholes retiring has been our two youngest CM’s, and in the name of progress they deserve to continue where they left off. They play like two Brazilians and cover each other defensively as well. I’d love to see Tom/Ando v Everton.

Diouf had a good shift last night, people mentioned the Cleverly/Berbatov link up play for our first and third but Diouf held up the ball on the left for both goals and completed the passing move. He was even on standby to strike the second but the old fox Owen got there first. Don’t know about you lot but I think he did well. Ravel looked very sharp when he came on, King Eric must have been well pleased with that! Pogba looks promising, he just needs more experience, skill doesn’t necessarily equate to performances when you’re a young player. He needs a run in the senior team first and foremost, and that will come in time.

Owen will always be Owen, a top striker, and Valencia reminded how good he can shoot. Overall I think Berbatov and Cleverly deserve a call up this weekend, beyond that I won’t try and guess the team but I’d be very happy to see Dimmy get a start. Its not like our strikers have been unstoppable for the last 3 games. Right now a run out for Berbatov is long overdue. He brings something different to the side.
October 26, 2011 at 13:23
Red Nation says:
I appreciate Rio & Evra’s services to Utd but they are currently in the team based on past form. If Sir Alex was picking was based on form,fitness and ability, Smalling would get the nod everytime.
Evra is a lucky lad, if Fabio wasn’t made of tissue he would have got dropped. We don’t have a left footed Left back yet, so Evra will be in our team for quite a while without competition.

I remember when Evra played 50 games non stop for us and was always great and when bad it was expected. But now he’s constantly out of position and is a liability. Words don’t make a player, actions do. Evra is a true red, so is guys like Zibbie on RoM doesn’t mean he is a good footballer for us.

When the time has come to move on, its time, I will not respect Rio and Evra this week for their appalling behaviour and performance on the pitch vs City, they have lost my respect and have to earn it.

They should shut up and perform, not give it all that and blag then perform shit. Sir Alex is human and has picked players in the past based on name than form (Rooneyvs Bayern, Ruud vs Milan).

I watched the City game again and Evra and Rio played like pussies, shying away, using their feet and not their brains. Urging attacks, not showing any sense of leadership, barely running. Fucking Welbeck and Young played left back while Silva was raping us. Smalling had dezeko till Rio ran off line to leave aguero free number of times.

I hope both are punished, Heard Sir Alex called them “Fucking idiots” too right, I’d call them “an embarrasment”. Fryers showed against poor oppostion how to play positionally and so did a rusty Vidic at times

The City game is still painful, I have recieved on average 5 texts a day reminding me, Bolllotelli chants, 6-1′s, “at home!”, “Blue moon” etc. I will criticise these guys because they was not United players on the day, they was playing like individuals giving up.
October 26, 2011 at 13:26
Costas says:
@wayne

Absolutely. No one should be undroppable. Fan favorites aside, it doesn’t make for a healthy environment in the locker room. That’s why personally I didn’t mind Ferdinand and Evans starting ahead of Vidic. The first 2 looked better at Anfield than the latter did against Otelul.
October 26, 2011 at 13:39
wayne says:
Red Nation up to playing Rooney over Berba last year don’t remember Sir Alex having favourites that’s whats always made Utd a tough team it’s always been based on merit,if a player proved himself good enough always played regardless of name,i’ll give you over the last season seems to have changed slightly which as Costas pointed out leads to a unhealthy enviroment.
To say Rio and Evra has to earn your respect after 9 and 5 years of great service,don’t understand that at all.
October 26, 2011 at 13:43
brett1985 says:
Paul Parker

I thought we hardly created an attack of note in the liverpool match. I don’t recall numerous chances being wasted. I’d put most of the blame on team selection in the midfield that day as Jones didn’t know if he was coming or going and hardly had a good touch in the whole game.

I’m one of Dimitar’s biggest critics but I can still see some value in giving him the odd game.
October 26, 2011 at 14:02
Sandeep1878 says:
Good evening lovely Red Devils around the world,

as it stands,

we havent signed sneidjer yet..

that reminds me some trademark comment throught July and august,

Have we signed anyone yet?

The fucker in me thinks that Evra and Rio both will be dropped for Goodison park..

i also think Danny will be on bench,

make no mistake, its not fearing to Everton or something like that, they are coming back strong from disastrous start to season and as we all know its like a cup final for them,

i wouldnt be suprised if we play 5 in midfield and considering the circustances we better go ahead with it..

__________De Gea___________

Val_______Vida______Jones________Fabio

____________Carrick________________

Nani__________Tom________Park / Young______

____________Rooney_______

____________________berba_______________
October 26, 2011 at 14:03
StatesideAussie says:
Samuel @ 9:37… “what berba done last season is history, what matters is now. don’t go all sentimental because he was the JOINT top goal scorer in the league with tevez, like every player he should get into training and put in the performances…”

Sorry, but this is a totally illogical statement. If you don’t like Berbatov or think he shouldn’t play for whatever reason, that’s fine, just say so. But what you’re doing here is building some sort of Catch-22: Berbatov doesn’t deserve to play, so he should be on the bench; Berbatov needs to prove himself against real opposition — because he has been on the bench. What chance does he have?

You know what, the result against Manchester City is “history.” The win against Aldershot? History. What you wrote up above? History.

By the accounts of the gaffer himself, Berbatov has been “putting in” at training. SAF has spoken about this several times, about how impressed he has been and how he couldn’t ask for more. So where do you get off, saying he needs to put in more? Do you go to training? Does your opinion count more than SAF’s?

And certainly, Berbatov “put in” yesterday. He is doing everything he can do, but if the attitude is, “he hasn’t been playing, therefore he shouldn’t play”, then he has no chance.

No one is saying we don’t need to transition the squad. We do. And most folk on here agree we have a terrific crop of youngsters, and are very excited about that. But for whatever reason, our performances over the last month have been flat. We have looked, in fact, like a team that was heading for a big hiding — and guess what, now it’s happened.

And to my way of thinking, the immediate short-term response to that needs to be sharp and decisive. Because I would much rather be fighting to stay in the top four, than fighting to get back into it. This doesn’t require our whole strategy to be abandoned. It doesn’t require us to rush out and spend a gazzilion quid in the transfer market. It doesn’t require us to get rid of this guy or that guy. Because right now, all those of things would have “panic” written all over them.

But, so long as we have existing options within the squad, then it would be foolish to continue the way we have been, to just ignore the evidence that has been there for some time now. It’s time to shake things up a little, steady the ship, get us back on track, and it needs to be approached one match at a time.
October 26, 2011 at 14:11
Red Nation says:
Wayne

How can a injured Rooney be picked over a 100% fit rooney? Favouritism and importance cam before form,fitness and ability. Same with Ruud who was rushed back in 2005 despite no being ready for Milan. We had a 19 year Rooney, Alan Smith,Bellion and many others at the time.

Rio has been with us for 9 years. But he has only been great since 2005 to 2009. He was up & down before 2005 with the ban and constant mistakes. Patrice has been awesome since 2006-2010. I loved them both in their prime years when they spoke less crap. Now they speak crap and play crap. I acknowledge they was part of a great period of time where they was unrivalled in ability but since 2010-11 season they have proven to be a constant liablity fitness and form wise. Time to give opportunities to others. They are now just like Lampard,Gerrard,Terry,Carragher,Barry
on their way down to name a few.

You may call it disrespect but Im kinda stating the obvious in these two. Disrespect would be call Berbatov useless as a squad member, after 22 goals last year or calling a technical genius like Carrick a lazy so & so because he is no Mata or Yaya or Alonso. Or calling our Captain a rash injury prone defender now even though he was player of the year last year,our captain and only got injured in August.

The truth is Rio, Evra’s position should be up for grabs, like Edwins was, Nevilles’s still is. We are still experiencing a failure to replace Neville because no one players has stayed fit long enough or good enough (Brown,Oshea,Rafael,Smalling,Valencia, Jones). Keano was replaced by Carrick then Hargreaves, then Fletcher.

Smalling and Fabio are the way foward, Rio and Evra are now our Maldini’s & Zambrottas.
October 26, 2011 at 14:13
Sandeep1878 says:
easy fellas,

the berba saga has created more fights inside UNITED than outside of it amongst fans..
October 26, 2011 at 14:14
Red Nation says:
- 100% fit berbatov

is what I meant LOL
October 26, 2011 at 14:33
rohan19 says:
http://football365.com/f365-features/7263448/Top-In-October-Distant-Second-In-May
this one’s a good read..

i really hope SAF starts with carrick and cleverly.. there seems to be a bit of balance about that due.. cleverly the ball playing mid and carrick covering others arse.. we could play cleverly and rooney in mid with carrick covering them.. welbeck up front and wingers resuming their positions..

anyone else think fryers deserves a chance in the games after everton away?
maybe otetul.. or one of the other easier fixtures.. ???

also if berba plays he should play atleast once in the rooney role.. he won’t play like rooney but the ball hold up will be amazing…
October 26, 2011 at 14:35
WillieRedNut says:
Berba will play Saturday……and he will score. Remember, I told you first. When debating the game after our win, the RedNut give you all the scoop. Willies my name and I’m ahead of the game!
October 26, 2011 at 14:37
rohan19 says:
oh yes and it was refreshing to have a fullback in position and the left side secured..
‘d rather we play more regularly with a fullback and winger rather than two wingers..
October 26, 2011 at 14:38
rohan19 says:
@willierednut : hope he plays in a deeper role creating rather than trying to get on the end of it..
we need his calm presence and ability to create amazing passes outta nothin
October 26, 2011 at 14:39
kanchelskis says:
@rohan19

I said exactly that on the live blog last night about Fryers. Not Goodison, a bit too ‘cauldron’ for a 1st team debut, but yes, Otelul at OT, Sunderland at OT, trip to Swansea. All games which – based on his CC appearances thus far – I reckon he could handle.
October 26, 2011 at 14:40
wayne says:
Red Nation i agree 100% all places should be up for grabs and i said on a thread way back Rio’s days are numbered.Last season Evra didn’t have a good year but as someone pointed out yesterday it’s ok picking fault with his defensive play but Evra is not really a defensive player,how many times does he boot it down the wing in a game,doing 100 metre sprints has to take it out of anyone.IMO can’t have both either have a stay at home defender or it’s up to someone else to cover Evra’s position which hasn’t been happening.Look at all the great attacking full backs most are suspect defensively.
Not disagreeing with you mate just don’t think Rio and Evra deserve to be slagged off.
October 26, 2011 at 14:43
rohan19 says:
@kanchelskis: yeah.. the LB position is up for grabs since fabio has , sadly, regressed to an extent mostly due to the glassy nature of his frame..
whats the news on rafael?? must be a couple of weeks since he started training.. boss ain’t said anything..
October 26, 2011 at 14:45
Denise Williams says:
Costas well said. I have disagreed with you on certain things but on this we are both singing from the same hymn sheet. Over the last three games none of Rooney, Hernandez or Welbeck have really been in form so Berba and Owen do deserve a fairer go than they are being given. As Wayne says no player should be undroppable. Personally I think that is an unhealthy situation and causes disharmony in the dressing room. In previous years nobody has been given that tag but this season it seems to be creeping in that certain players cannot be dropped. From my view point the performances over past few weeks have been poor and the drubbing by City has been coming. I believe it is time form was taken into account and not pick certain players purely on reputation. Do not get me wrong I am not saying Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck are no good. I never would but I am merely saying pick players on form.
October 26, 2011 at 14:48
rohan19 says:
@wayne : evra doesn’t deserve it.. but he should get it.. just cause he’s taking his place for granted.. and bar the liverpool game he hasn’t really played like the evra of say 2008-2009 or eve the season after that one.. last season we won it cause of sheer will and SAF..
it ain’t easy this time.. and the team is still developing and gelling..
hence the senior players.. in this case standby captain should atleast set an example and not capitulate..
October 26, 2011 at 14:49
RedHound says:
Right now Cleverley seems to be probably only second to vidic in terms of who most United fans have their hopes in or who they want to return to the lineup. For some its a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the pre-season barca game, community shield and our start to the season, others its plain desperation in terms of our supposedly poor midfield, and others have genuinely studied his game and feel that he is the best person to partner anyone within the midfield. Either way, he has a lot of expectation on his young shoulders and i sure hope, for his sake and United’s, that he lives up to it. whichever way you look at it(especially if you are a statistics person) United’s performances sure dropped after his injury. What i’ve seen of Cleverley in most of his impressive appearances is enough for me to conclude that he is more of an attacker and cordinates attacks quite well especially in the goal area
October 26, 2011 at 14:49
WillieRedNut says:
I posted my team for Everton last night. I’ll do it again. DDG/ Jones Vidic Smalling Fabio/ Nani Carrick TC Park/ Berbatov and Hernandez. Rooney and Young could influence the game, from the bench, but I don’t think we’ll need them.
October 26, 2011 at 14:55
wayne says:
rohan 19 big difference in being rude to a player rather than critical mate.
October 26, 2011 at 14:58
dazbomber says:
@Kanchelskis-last night cleverly was picking the ball up off the back four,he kept coming deep. That’s my point Rooney and cleverly could switch and cover each other. We had all the ball in the first 20 minutes but never looked like scoring no one in midfield had the guile, that’s what Rooney and cleverly would give us it’s just my opinion .
October 26, 2011 at 15:00
rohan19 says:
i was just stating the hard facts.. see what happened to berb.. missed against city in fa cup final.. now he’s being benched for being amazing.. same mighta happened with evra but he has no competition for LB.. hence someone needs to have a talk with him
October 26, 2011 at 15:01
WillieRedNut says:
IMHO, you can’t play both Berba and Owen. They tend to drop deep. We seen that against Stoke. He didn’t work. One, or the other, but not both. I’d like Berba and Hernandez combo again. It could be a good mesh.
October 26, 2011 at 15:03
WillieRedNut says:
*It*
October 26, 2011 at 15:06
wayne says:
rohan 19 Berba missing a chance in the FA Cup semi has nothing to do with him not playing,wasn’t saying you were being rude,Red Nations first post is very derogatory towards Rio and Evra in personel terms,that’s not necessary
October 26, 2011 at 15:08
kanchelskis says:
@dazbomber

I see your point. Against Aldershot, that was fine (though Park also did a lot of the messy work in midfield), but at the higher level, you need someone who’s playing deep to do more than just collect the ball. Thhe back 4 needed nearly no protection last night. Against most PL teams, let alone CL ones, this will not be the case, and players like Cleverly and Rooney won’t have the luxury of dropping back just to ‘collect’ the ball. There’s specialist work to be done in that area – tackling, intercepting, covering – and TC and WR are not the players to do that.
October 26, 2011 at 15:27
Sparkz says:
Kanchelskis @ 9.25- Agree about Cleverley, hopefully you’re right

And to all the people saying Berba should start vs Everton- I’d agree with you if the other 3 were in poor form. But they haven’t been IMO. Welbeck and Rooney were one of the few players (along with Fletcher and De Gea) who came out of the derby with any credit, I’d start those 2 again vs Everton.

Saying that though, Berba did score at Goodison last year, so that could play a part in Fergie’s thinking. I just don’t see Fergie benching Rooney for a second consecutive away game, especially when its a must win. Whether you like it or not, he’s our most important player, and will be fired up as fuck after the defeat on Sunday.

So it comes down to whether your see a Rooney & Berba partnership doing the business more than a Rooney & Welbeck/Chicha?….
October 26, 2011 at 15:29
denton davey says:
Costas @ 12:34: ” Evans’ red. He’s probably made a mistake in letting Balotelli get into a better position (but he was hardly the first defender that was guilty of this on the day!) and after that you make a choice really: 0-2 with 11 v 11 or 0-1 with 10 v 11. Not an easy decision to make in split seconds. But even before that, questions have to be asked about the way City caught us napping in the whole move. The pass to Balotelli was too easy.”

There are other variables to consider: Aguero’s pass to Balotelli was inch-perfect; Balotelli was running forward and Evans had to turn; there was no “protection” for Evans; AND Balotelli is a beast – big, fast, and strong. So, yeah, Balotelli had a “better position” but that was only significant because of Aguero’s pass and Balotelli’s recognition carved the Reds’ defence wide-open. Don’t forget that De Gea was still fifteen yards away so if Evans let Balotelli go free then SuperMario had a free shot and was likely to score.

We can argue this endlessly but in my opinion, I think that Evans did the right thing – if he let Balotelli run free then TheLads would most probably have been 0-2 and Mancini would have shut up shop. At 0-1, Ashley Young still had two excellent chances to square things in the 54th minute. And, of course, it wasn’t Evans who kept a very aggressive, attacking formation on the pitch with TheLads a man down – SAF was very slow to react.

What happened after the sending off was calamitous – for the second and third goals the “defending” was tragic; for the fourth, fifth, and sixth goals it was farcical. It’s hard to argue that Jonny Evans was directly at fault for those five.
October 26, 2011 at 15:33
denton davey says:
Red nation @ 12:36: ” Both show glimpses og old form but are on their way down. They could do a Giggs and recreate themselves but are deluded to thinking they are still 25.”

Interesting idea as far as it concerns Rio – he’s physically past-it but I don’t think his “football brain” is finished. Could he be “recreated” as a defensive midfield-shield ? Could Patrice Evra be “recreated” as a left-sided midfielder ? These two guys are great athletes and if the “could do a GIggs and recreate themselves” then they probably have something to offer at the very top level for several more years BUT, from what I’ve seen lately, they’re becoming liabilities in the defensive back-four.
October 26, 2011 at 15:36
Sparkz says:
You could argue that Fletcher’s goal was the worst thing to happen to us in that match?
October 26, 2011 at 15:37
WillieRedNut says:
@Denton

Rio in a DM position? Sounds like your theory of a square peg in a round hole?
October 26, 2011 at 15:39
denton davey says:
Red Nation @ 14:11: “Rio and Evra are now our Maldini’s & Zambrottas.”

Neither one is THAT good. Maldini was one of the three greatest defenders to ever play; Zambrotta was a fantastic player who won CL and World Cup.
October 26, 2011 at 15:44
utd_fc says:
Denton, so you’re saying that because he found himself behind balotelli he did the right thing by getting himself sent off?? Even if they scored and shutup shop at 2 nil wouldn’t that have been way better than a thrashing of 6-1?

I totally agree that Evans was not the the only problem that day but his red card was the biggest catalyst that sent everything downhill for us.

And anyways, how did we get back to that horrible day? Thought we were discussing Berbgasms here
October 26, 2011 at 15:44
slim says:
WillieRedNut

i’d go with that as well. Or even Rooney on top. He’s done it before as the lone striker in a 4-5-1 no reason why he can’t stay top or alternate with the Berb.. For me Carrick seem to be the perfect foil for Tom C. This may come as a surprise considering i’m not one of his biggest fans. But i know what Carrick can do and i believe if he has a budding CM looking ot get on the ball and uses it wisely we’ll see just how good Carrick can be.

Anyone wonder why the Alonso hailed Carrick when he was still at Liverpool and when he just arrived at Real Madrid ? Two words Paul Scholes. Now this isn’t taking anything away from Carrick but Paul played the way that brought out the best in Carrick. Paul was tidy and always looking forward, never felt flustered and in turn calmed Carrick down and let him play the QB role to perfection. We saw the best of this against Roma.

I’ve called on him to step his game up early in the season, maybe harshly but i still think he has a notch or two to go and i hope having Tom C doing the business will hasten the process
October 26, 2011 at 15:44
Sparkz says:
Denton- I think Rio becomes a bit of a scapegoat at times tbh. His performances have actually been reasonablky good, but he gets left exposed by the wanderings of the rest of the back 4.

Bear in mind that he had a top game vs Liverpool, when our defenders were more disciplined with their charges upfield….and his centre back partner was Evans, who doesn’t tend to bomb forward. Compare this to the Basle game for example- when he partnered Jones who, along with Fabio and Evra, kept leaving him exposed.

Same thing in the first part of the game vs City- he was having a really good game. Once Evans got sent off…and Jones, Smalling & Evra took it upon themselves to rescue the game for us- and once again he was left doing the donkey work at the back.

Saying all that though- the fact that our defenders are still marauding makes me think that Fergie is actually somewhat encouraging this. That means RIo’s place is less certain- since you need a more mobile and physically able defender covering at the back (as well as a holding midfielder?).
October 26, 2011 at 15:45
RedHound says:
actually when Fletcher’s goal went in i thought of Roma
October 26, 2011 at 15:45
NotoriousRedDevil says:
First off, Happy Diwali to all my Hindu and Sikh Reds out there and anyone else who cares.

My take on last night

Morrsion did well when he came on, Pogba a peg or two below Morrison. Keane did okay.
Fryers looked good, hopefully 1st choice left back in the CC.
Diouf struggled on the left but thats not his position.
Good to see Cleverly back, hopefully starts the game on Saturday.
Tony V – USE YOUR LEFT FOOT. Great goal, but he just refuses to use left foot for anything but to stand on.
Owen – Did well but NEVER Man of the Match. Only got it because he’s english.
Berbagod – Played really well should have had a penalty, exactly same challenge as Tony V in Basle game. Looked hungry and energetic, some great passes as well. Having said that it was only Aldershot so lets not get carried away,

Vidic, Cleverly should play Saturday. I hope Berbagod plays but come on lads its likely to be Hernandez and Rooney.
October 26, 2011 at 15:47
Red Nation says:
Denton Davey – Glad you picked up on those points and expanded. Rio can recreate himsellf to being a more battler type where he sits back as the last man like Vidic does and clear any loose balls, instead of sweeping and running back to his original postion. He’s 33 and has not adjusted yet to losing his pace, I admire his his resistance to age but it looks silly to be running after defenders being slower than them in the first place. Evra cannot recreate himself as a left winger, he has aweful crosses 4/5 times but he should curb his attacking extent to the half way line. Ashley Cole has adapted to age fantastically whereas Evra hasn’t and is continuing to be playing 2 roles he doesn’t need to be doing.
For gods sake, when Welbeck is covering for you, there is something definitely something wrong.
Both players was out of their depths physically and intellectually against City which is embarrasing considering their meant to rally the defence to damage limitation.

They failed in a huge task and now the whole world has taken notice to our suspect defence. This is a blow to our fear factor and confidence. We need to build a new defence, many cannot accept its time for the beginning of a new combination because they are holding on to sentiments from the years of our Rio + Evra’s prime during 2006-2009.

Sir Alex has surely foreseen this why else would he give Jones,Smalling + Evans so many early pre season games, to be a contingency plan for when Rio + Evra crack.
October 26, 2011 at 15:48
StatesideAussie says:
I couldn’t see Rio as a DM. If anything, a DM requires more fitness and mobilty. As for Evra playing left-side midfield, early in his career he played as a left winger and described it as his preferred role.
October 26, 2011 at 15:51
denton davey says:
kanchelskis @ 14:39: ” Fryers. Not Goodison, a bit too ‘cauldron’ for a 1st team debut, but yes, Otelul at OT, Sunderland at OT, trip to Swansea. All games which – based on his CC appearances thus far – I reckon he could handle.

Good point – well considered. The kid needs a chance; Patrice Evra needs a “break”. Would you go with Evra at Goodison ? with firm instructions to be positionally-focussed ?
October 26, 2011 at 15:51
StatesideAussie says:
NRD … was Owen man of the match? I am surprised.
October 26, 2011 at 15:54
Sparkz says:
@Slim- Scholesy didn’t play in the Roma game mate!

I actually thought that for the first few years, Carrick & Scholesy formed a really good combo though. But the last 2 seasons (particularly last year), it was a bit of a failure. Scholesy’s my favourite player of all time, but his legs were shot., and pairing him with Carrick was suicidal in some of the high tempo games (Liverpool, Chelsea and the FA Cup semi vs City immediately spring to mind).

We just got overwhelmed in there, and a lot of it was down to Scholes not having the legs after 45-50 minutes….although Carrick was the one who used to get slaughtered, despite the fact that he was essentially fighting a lone battle at times against teams that played 3 in midfield.

I do agree that pairing him with Cleverley would be a decent option. He wouldn’t provide the same attacking drive Anderson did when he played with Cleverley earlier on this season…but he’d provide a damn good insurance policy in front of the back 4. Let’s not forget that even when Cleverley was fit, we were still leaking wayy too many chances at goal.
October 26, 2011 at 15:55
NotoriousRedDevil says:
As far as Rio and Evra go. Both had poor games on Sunday but some of the stuff I’ve read is farcical. Evra when fit plays, don’t think he’s ever been rested since he ousted that argie judas heinze out the team. I think its time to give him a break but not to get rid.

As per Rio, we’ll need his experience at some point in the season, the defence chopping and changing doesn’t help. Injuries have dictated that but we need 1st choice players in at least 2 of the 4 defensive positions and that hasn’t happened this season. Right back is a free for all.

We still need these players as we lost a lot of old heads in the summer. Getting rid of them would be stupid. You can’t underestimate the power of experienced players no matter how refreshing it is to see swashbuckling defenders.

As for footballers especially our Rio (who gets it because he’s a cockney) on Twitter is no more than sending a txt off your phone its 2011 not 1975 so get over it. He doesn’t talks about other stuff on there because club forbids him to talk about certain aspects involving United. Plenty moan about footballers being out of touch with fans, in this modern day and age if a footballer is caught out clubbing thats the best way for them to keep it real with the fans. Stop being fucking dinosaurs and move on with the world otherwise you may as well trade your car in for a horse and cart and not be on this site giving opinions.
October 26, 2011 at 15:55
WillieRedNut says:
slim – There’s always that option mate. My preference would be a Berba/Hernandez up front. Anyway, I’m over the shock of the derby day disaster. Time for our lads to step up and produce a response, United style!
October 26, 2011 at 15:56
kanchelskis says:
@denton davey

Yeh, Evra at Goodison. Everton don’t play with a great deal of width so he won’t be under such intense pressure.

It’s frustrating that we’re having to dip down to the youth ranks in the hope of someone applying pressure to Evra for the LB spot. Fabio – and even Rafael – should be firmly in contention for that spot by now, but their injury records just won’t allow it.
October 26, 2011 at 15:57
NotoriousRedDevil says:
@ Stateside – Yes mate Sky gave it Owen. I thought it should have been Berbatov or Cleverly but Dimi probably should have got because he was on the pitch for the full game. These man of the match awards mean nothing now. They will always give it to someone to sell stories.
October 26, 2011 at 16:01
Nasko 1 says:
Happy name day Berbo !!!
I wish you all the Best my Friend
October 26, 2011 at 16:02
denton davey says:
WillieRedNut @ 15:37: “Rio in a DM position? Sounds like your theory of a square peg in a round hole?”

Touche !

But, why not ? StateSideAussie (@ 15:48) suggests “a DM requires more fitness and mobility”, is this your position, too.

I’d disagree with StateSide insofar as Rio is not a total crock – I’d wager dollars-to-doughnuts [except that dollars don't buy doughnuts any more !] that Rio possesses significantly better fitness and mobility than, say, Michael Carrick.

I’d doubt that Rio’s reading-of-the-game has declined, either. He gets exposed because he’s the last man and, as such, he can no longer provide cover for himself. Put him in front of, say, Vidic and Smalling and he could ‘sweep’ without being the last man.

Like Michael Carrick, Rio is very cool and composed on-the-ball. His ball-playing skills are the best of any UTD defender. Using those two in some version of a 4-2-3-1 would provide ample defensive coverage and the potential for attacking passes out of defence; they wouldn’t provide the kind of quick one-twos that, say, Anderson/Cleverley provided before YoungTom got hacked down by Kevin Davies.
October 26, 2011 at 16:06
Sandeep1878 says:
ROM on full swing eh?

how about this,

Sir Alex sending the same eleven at Goodison park that played on Sunday..

each player would give fucking at least best 60 minutes of their life!!!!!!
October 26, 2011 at 16:10
aenemy7 says:
Welcome back Xavi…ooopppss wrong number!, Tom Clev!
October 26, 2011 at 16:17
WillieRedNut says:
Big pressure on Cleverley’s shoulders. It’s not all about him though. The guys beside him need to up their game.
October 26, 2011 at 16:19
Costas says:
Maybe he should change his name to CockyRedNut. If Berb starts (and especially scores) at Goodison, willie should be annointed as King of Rom in King Eric and Kings’ absences. Can’t see it happening sadly. But it would be an awesome feat. To score for the 3rd consecutive season at Everton.

@Denise Williams

I appreciate that. Each fan likes a player more than the other, but sadly we’ve reached the point where you have to feel for both strikers. And I’ve never disliked Owen tbh. Even before he joined United, I liked that he didn’t seem your typical Stevie Me or Robbie Fowler scouser. It’s just that I am Berba starved this season, lol. In all seriousness, when Fergie writes a book, it will be interesting to find out how this season’s squad was built Because we have 7 strikers fighting for 2 positions whereas we have 3 regular full backs fighting for 2 positions. And maybe it’s a case of SAF not wanting to rotate 5 or 6 of those strikers because it would get too confusing, but his current policy also creates an oxymoron. A pecking order that was created even before a ball was kicked this summer and that doesn’t seem to change. No doubt where the future lies, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get more out of Owen, Berbatov and even Diouf and Kiko.
October 26, 2011 at 16:28
slim says:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2011/Oct/sir-alex-ferguson-discusses-antonio-valencia-situation.aspx

Fergie having a word with Tony, glad i brought it up earlier. i hope they talked about his left foot
October 26, 2011 at 16:33
Sparkz says:
@Costas 16.19- I disagreee about the pecking order not changing. The only reason it hasn’t changed has been because of the form. Welbeck started off like a house on fire, as did Rooney….so therefore, why on Earth would you change things? But lets say hypothetically that their form wasn’t good (which may still happen)….I’m sure Fergie at some point would change it around…and the guys lower down the pecking order will get a chance. But if they’re playing well, then it’d be folly to change it IMO.

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything….but I did say during the summer that I hoped & expected Welbeck to move ahead of Berba as 3rd choice striker. I got slated by a fair few, but my reasons were simple.

Manchester United has been built on giving youth a chance, always have been. That’s how we do things. I felt Danny had paid his dues- he’s done his time on loan & got his experience, now he deserved an opportunity to show what he could do for us. I’d hate for a situation to have developed, where we got to the end of this season and Welbeck was unhappy due to lack of game time, coz you’d potentially be losing a great young player for the sake of a 30 year old.

Like I said, not wanting to blow my own trumpet lol, but that’s the way Fergie was obviously thinking as well!
October 26, 2011 at 16:36
slim says:
Sparkz

I was speaking broadly and the role Carrick played in that particular game. Scholes was his partner on a number of occasions that season
October 26, 2011 at 16:42
CedarsDevil says:
Willie is always ahead of the game and hence why I always agree with him
October 26, 2011 at 16:45
CedarsDevil says:
CockyRedNut? Hahahaha loved that Costas… Thought he was already a King at RoM no?
October 26, 2011 at 16:46
StatesideAussie says:
Costas … good post, that. I have been assuming the “pecking order” has been more of a structure:

(a) Rooney, as the mainstay
(b) Hernandez and Welbeck for standard rotation (meaning, if available, one of these two will generally partner Roo)
(c) Berbatov and Owen for insurance
(d) Kiki and Diouf along for the ride and maybe gain some experience

Still, if you’re going to have backup, it helps to keep it in working order, and the odd run in a Carling Cup game isn’t going to achieve that. The other trouble with such a structure is that too easily allows each player to become accepting of his role. Those above need to feel they are under threat from those below, and those below need to feel they have a chance of surplanting those above.
October 26, 2011 at 16:48
slim says:
Problem with changing formations to 4-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 is the sheer number of strikers. That said i actually think we’d be okay if we rotated the strikers and not the midfield or defenders. 2 on top – 4-4-2 Play Dimi and Henandez . roles are clearly defined . Or Dimi and Welbeck/Rooney. they’re smart enough to alternate and know when to change places. I think SAF’s just got to talk to them as a group. There shouldn’t be one player claiming one spot for him self saying thats the only area he wants to play in. For the life of me i don’t see how Dimi and Rooney can’t play together. They both have ball playing skills and are intelligent. Probably just don’t like each other. i honestly can’t see any other reason.. Having those 2 firing with Welbeck and Hernandez waiting in the wings is fantastic in my opinion. They could start some games too, especially if we’re coming in from an away game in Europe or something similar
October 26, 2011 at 16:51
Sandeep1878 says:
Hello Cedars,

how are u buddy, how did ur injection and post injection date go?

Hello costas,

how are you pal,

yeah you are right, we have reached a state where in we shud think beyond our fav players,

its time we fucking give chances to owen and berba..

i would love to see them prove a point and keep youngsters on their toes,

this is my pecking order for Goodison,

Rooney, Berbatop, Hernandez, Danny, Owen,
October 26, 2011 at 16:53
CedarsDevil says:
We should try 3-2-1-1-2-1 would work like a charm
October 26, 2011 at 16:54
Sandeep1878 says:
Willie,

yeah its the players around Clev that should up their game,

high time we hit some fucking combination in the middle of the park,
October 26, 2011 at 16:55
Red Nation says:
Denton Davey – Not Literally like Zambrotta and Maldini.

Rio like Maldini with age has become similarly “soft”, he needs taking care of and to be played against the right oppostion.Remember Maldini vs Rooney – Rooney made that legend look pathetic, bones was creeking and it was starting to get embarrasing seeing Maldini being slaughtered. So they subbed him off to protect the team. Rio is similar, he gets torn a new one by certain players when it comes down to speed. He is getting more and more injury prone like Maldini did and needs more protection, start him against the likes of Norwich,West Brom,Stoke, Blackburn.

Evra like Zambrotta cannot go foward and backwards constantly, Evra must learn from the likes of Cafu and Zambrotta how to deal with aging. Limit the attacks, improve as a defender, use the postional sense to make up for lack of tracking back. Evra hits 90 mph going foward and then crawls backwards to track a right winger who’s already past the half way line. Against liverpool he busted a gut to track back for the 1st time in ages and then on Sunday let the whole of team down and was liable for at least half time goals.

They need to be dropped so they learn lessons then its up to them improve and break back in or leave in the summer. Sir Alex should not let them get away with this again or we’ll see them 2 flop again and there will more people than just calling for place in the team to be overthrown and challenged.

Rio is up there with the greatest defenders of all time in my honest opinon and Evra is also in terms of his position. They are not that far behind Maldini and Zambrotta, like a metre LOL.
October 26, 2011 at 16:55
CedarsDevil says:
Sandeep

Hello my friend… Had my last injection earlier and all is well buddy. Still under the weather but all should be ok…. Will miss her though, stunning babe….Nigeria’s finest she was
October 26, 2011 at 16:56
Sandeep1878 says:
Cedars,

where would u pur de Gea in your formation?

Center back
October 26, 2011 at 16:58
StatesideAussie says:
Sparkz … but SAF has actively pursued a policy of rotating players in and out for a number of years now, and not because of form. It was done because he considered rotation, in and of itself, to be a wise management practice. I mean, we’re talking about a manager who fielded a different starting 11 in something like 165 consecutive matches.
October 26, 2011 at 16:59
Sandeep1878 says:
Cedars,

good to hear buddy,

Nigeria eh?

thats what i was wondering why our Cedars is following Nigeria in African nations cup qualifiers Got my answer charmer
October 26, 2011 at 17:01
CedarsDevil says:
Sandeep – On the wings so he can fly!
October 26, 2011 at 17:01
NotoriousRedDevil says:
I like slims idea of the formation. Thing is we haven’t rotated strikers at this club since the quartet of Ole, Teddy, Yorke and Cole. Since then its been Ruud and one other and after that Rooney and one other. Problem with Dimi and Rooney playing together is that midfield 4 behind them has not been consistently the same since Berbatovs arrival. Especially the centre pair. The team the boss picks on Saturday will baffle us all. I decline to comment till after the press conference.
October 26, 2011 at 17:06
Sandeep1878 says:
StatesideAussie,

yeah you are right pal, some 165 games that was,

it just goes on to show how splendid and meticulous our training sessions are,

every player would be ready any time he is called upon,

in all honesty, we have lost huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount experience in defense in the last 9 months or so,

with all due credit, there is no wonder why we have been shaky..

Sir Alex is builidng one more and he always builds the best,

we will be so lucky to see one more unit rolling out…

##########

Regarding your pecking order,

yeah we need Rooney as main stay,

the rotation would happen between danny and chicha and from my last season experience Chicha would be the first choice amongst the two for away games..

then comes the Berbathing, I have given up on that, i dont know how, when and how many he is gonna play, but i feel his time is come and he is ready to deliver..
October 26, 2011 at 17:08
StatesideAussie says:
Notorious … yes, that’s true. RVN was pretty much a fixture. He averaged 44 games a year for us, and that’s despite missing a large part of 05/06 through injury.
October 26, 2011 at 17:09
CedarsDevil says:
‘Are you in pain?’

‘Yes my love’

‘Your kidneys again?’

‘No sweetheart its my football club’

‘You have a football club?’

‘Fuck this shit, just strip your clothes and come to bed’
October 26, 2011 at 17:11
CedarsDevil says:
NRD

こんばんは
October 26, 2011 at 17:13
slim says:
NRD

I had the 99 strike force in mind. that side kept the spine relatively unchanged alternating the strikers. Roo and Danny could be starters or Roo and Dimi with the other 2 as back up during games. To be honest, changing teams to match opponents is all well and good, but to do that for frequently is only inviting trouble. In my opinion the spine of the team should be DDG, Vidic, Smalling,Evra – yes Evra. Carrick and Rooney, hell throw Berba in there for good measure. We’ll only see our youngsters delivering for us when they have the senior players settled and giving them a platform to perform. I’ll reference last nights game. You could see Dimi reacting positively to Ravel, Pogba and Tom C. This might cause controversy but he could be these kids Cantona. He demands the best because of the way he plays and i think thats what these kids should be looking to do.
October 26, 2011 at 17:13
CedarsDevil says:
StatesideAussie = Joy to read his posts every time
October 26, 2011 at 17:17
CedarsDevil says:
Do excuse my weirdness fellas but I am drugged to the bone…. Had my final shot today for my kidney infection…. I feel like I am floating! hahaha

Then again I suppose I am always weird!
October 26, 2011 at 17:19
Sandeep1878 says:
Cedars,

you are not weird but you have gone back to your teen days of stripping clothes

trip down memory lane

catch you pals,

time for cooking, rum, beer, dinner and then back to my beautyful red devils and ROM..

take care’

cheers
October 26, 2011 at 17:19
NotoriousRedDevil says:
Exactly Stateside and now we’re in a similar position with Rooney. Rooney doesn’t have to be 100% and he still starts, thats fair enough. However unlike Ruud I’m not sure if he averages the same amount of games a season. May be wrong, but he does tend to get more niggling injuries each season. We don’t really have a second choice strike partnership that has been tried and tested.

Berbatov and Owen have been tried in the CC albeit against lower league opposition. Would like to see how they line up against PL sides and Stoke this season doesn’t count. The game plan that day was disrupted injuries. Its a shame we didn’t take the first 2 CL games seriously otherwise we could have tried a couple of different partnerships in the last couple of group games.

At this moment in time each partnership at PL and CL level involves Rooney and one other. Personally I’d be more comfortable if we knew what the second choice partnership would be if Rooney got hurt, he seems to have a dip in form when he screws up with ingurland. At the moment there is little there that suggests we have one.
October 26, 2011 at 17:20
Zibbie says:
Nice win.
October 26, 2011 at 17:22
NotoriousRedDevil says:
@ Cedars can’t read that yet. Thank god for google translator Good Evening to you too, hope you recover fast mate!
October 26, 2011 at 17:22
CedarsDevil says:
Hello Zibbie….
October 26, 2011 at 17:23
StatesideAussie says:
@slim … top post at 17:13. I agree totally.

@cedars … flattery will get you everywhere my friend! good luck with the kidneys. And if that’s weirdness, there should be more of it lol
October 26, 2011 at 17:24
CedarsDevil says:
NRD

Got it from Google translate my friend, not that bright to be honest! hahaha

Still wish you all the best, a red to the heart you are
October 26, 2011 at 17:25
Zibbie says:
Cedars enjoy the buzz, get well soon.
October 26, 2011 at 17:28
NotoriousRedDevil says:
@ slim. Totally agree with you, Rooney isn’t mature enough to lead the youngsters and I don’t think he ever will be. When the youngsters came on you could see Berbatov going out of his way to get them involved and not being so stroppy with them as he is with older players (22 years and above). I think Evra needs a rest for a bit, 2-3 games out may piss him off enough to come back even stronger. We would benefit with someone whos seen it all in each part of the field in every game.
October 26, 2011 at 17:30
Zibbie says:
Fuck Fox Soccer or ESPN are not showing the Man Utd VS Everton game.
October 26, 2011 at 17:30
CedarsDevil says:
I will never ever wish for anyone to endure the pain I have suffered from my kidneys lately BUT I will love it if all of you can enjoy the effect of the drug I have been taking…… super human stuff!

StatesideAussie

Thanks my friend
October 26, 2011 at 17:32
soren says:
Cleverley is back =).
Berbatov should play more, he has enough quality.
Tony V nice smile and great goal.
DDG
Jones Vidic Smalling Fabio
Valencia Fletcher TC Young
Rooney
Chico or Berba
October 26, 2011 at 17:35
Zibbie says:
NRD, I have to disagree, Rooney is their leader with club and country. Goes golfing with the lads, no one said that before the Shity game. Berba had a good game against a lower team.
Berba has a good game and Rooney turns to shit? This logic is lost on me.
October 26, 2011 at 17:36
WillieRedNut says:
I don’t see a Berba/Owen partnership being an alternative to Rooney and Hernandez. Berbatov and Hernandez, or Welbeck and Berba would be a more suitable 2 up front. That’s how I see it anyway.
October 26, 2011 at 17:39
CedarsDevil says:
soren – Good evening darling

Zibbie – I am enjoying it buddy, thanks for the wishes my friend
October 26, 2011 at 17:41
Zibbie says:
How will Shity deal with Real, Milan, Inter and Barca all wanting their best players. Teves gone, Silva in demand and I hope someone buys Komp.
October 26, 2011 at 17:42
StatesideAussie says:
Zibbie … what the fuck??? I can’t believe they are not showing it. Not only that, but i have DirecTV, who are saying we may lose all the Fox Soccer programming as of Nov 1 due to dispute between them and News Corp. What a bunch of fucking cunts they all are.
October 26, 2011 at 17:43
soren says:
@CedarsDevil Get well soon!! A big hug from across the pond.
October 26, 2011 at 17:44
kiccha says:
welbeck and chicharito pace,power ,love for our club in abundance
lots of ability as well goals written all over it ! !
October 26, 2011 at 17:47
Zibbie says:
I see Rooney coaching the lads on the field all the time.
Rooney plays differently every game based on the others strengths, he never has time to settle in to one position or one job.
Lil Pea plays, Rooney is in the hole.
Welbeck plays they rotate.
Berba plays, he likes to float deep, Rooney plays more up front.
Lone striker. ect. ect. ect.
He played MF this year as well.
One of 3 players who hustled the entire Shity game.
October 26, 2011 at 17:47
NotoriousRedDevil says:
@ Zibbie – Nobody on here said Rooney has turned to shit because Berba had a good game. We’re talking about leadership on the pitch, Wayne isn’t directing players where to run to what blade of grass to cover etc. He can lead by example in terms of footballing ability but lacks the temperament. Never said Berbatov should replace Wayne, just think with an old head up front will help younger players in positioning sense. Let Wayne be a footballer, the responsibility guiding other players can wait.
October 26, 2011 at 17:48
Sparkz says:
@Stateside- you’re right, but when people have been in form, they’ve been the ones who haven’t been rotated out (unless in need of a rest). It’s not like he used to change the entire XI.
October 26, 2011 at 17:50
Denise Williams says:
Costas I do feel for Berba and Owen as I feel they deserve better than they are getting. I really don’t see why Fergie insisted on keeping seven strikers as he only plays three of them. Like you I would love to hear Fergie’s reasons for this. At the moment Fergie says nice things about them but as soo as the next game comes they are consistantly ignored regardless of the form of the other three. I firmly beieve all players should be picked on form. Fergie has been going on about consistancy but in my viewn the form of Hernandez and Welbeck in the past three to four weeks has not really been consistant at all and over the past three weeks Rooney seems to have gone off the boil. So why doesn’t he look at Berba and Owen. Macheda and Diouff get game time in the reserves but Berba and Owen are being starved of game time.
October 26, 2011 at 17:51
Zibbie says:
NRD your right.
The turn to shit comment was wrong.
October 26, 2011 at 17:51
NotoriousRedDevil says:
@ willierednut – They are probably better options but if it doesn’t work after one game the fans will get on the backs of Berba. I’d be more than happy seeing Wayne and Pea line up against Everton and Berba and Welbeck up front vs Galati.
October 26, 2011 at 17:53
Zibbie says:
Stateside I saw that. Direct TV will find out how many Footy fans there are.
I can’t find the Sunderland game either. Fuckers!
October 26, 2011 at 17:56
CedarsDevil says:
Thanks soren
October 26, 2011 at 17:57
Zibbie says:
4-4-2 is a fun way to play. And I have asked this before. What was the last CL winner who played 4-4-2 and when I looked back at the Champions was it the 99 Man Utd team?
October 26, 2011 at 17:58
StatesideAussie says:
zibbie … the Sunderland match is on Fox Soccer Plus. I think the United match might be on ESPN3, which is their online channel. Trying to find out for sure.
October 26, 2011 at 18:01
WillieRedNut says:
NRD – It’s not just on Rooney. Other players like Rio, Evra and Vidic could be more loud on the pitch. TBH, I’d rather Rooney was banging the goals in and creating chances for us, than shouting head off. I get your point, but I see it different mate.
October 26, 2011 at 18:01
slim says:
StatesideAussie

thanks mate, this side has got quality in abundance, just needs to fall in place, the doom and gloom is to be expected. i won’t lie i think a lot of work needs to be done but its out of our reach. It pains me to use Shitty as a reference but you could see they were a much changed side than what was on display in the charity shield.We’re a more tight knit group with the best manager , we can handle this. how well we will remains to be seen but i believe if we put the work in we can see a change even quicker than our rivals. Formations are all well and good but we need to attack together and defend together. If we do that we can play 4-6-0 and still thrash teams and look good doing so
October 26, 2011 at 18:01
Zibbie says:
Stateside, my cable system does not have Fox Soccer Plus.
October 26, 2011 at 18:02
CedarsDevil says:
Zibbie – Agreed!
October 26, 2011 at 18:04
Zibbie says:
Slime the 4-6-0 formation is how they won the CL in Moscow!
October 26, 2011 at 18:06
Zibbie says:
Slim my bad with the extra E!!!!!!!!!
October 26, 2011 at 18:08
slim says:
zibbie

there you go. no worries about the E
October 26, 2011 at 18:09
Zibbie says:
Stateside I found ESPN3 will show the Everton game.
October 26, 2011 at 18:10
Zibbie says:
Slim thanks
October 26, 2011 at 18:12
StatesideAussie says:
zibbie … yeah, they are showing it on ESPN3, but I can’t access ESPN3. Right now, my only hope is that the TV guides are not yet fully updated. I have seen that happen before.
October 26, 2011 at 18:27
JC says:
@ Zib – Not according to their upcoming schedule. The only EPL game on ESPN3 is Chelsea v Arsenal.
October 26, 2011 at 18:29
JC says:
Going to have to stream it from one of the streams on http://www.footballstreaming.info/streams/todays-links/ I guess.
October 26, 2011 at 18:29
WillieRedNut says:
Stop all this I feel sorry for such and such player. They’re grown men, not young kids. We can debate all the issues on this blog. The boss picks the team to the best of his ability. I say to myself sometimes, why is he going with him again? Or, why this bloody formation again? He gets it wrong, like Sunday, but he’s got it more right, than wrong imo. You can say he has his favourites. I wouldn’t like to think he drops players, because of personal grudges. I think most would agree, that we all faith he will pick the lads up after last weeks horror showing.
October 26, 2011 at 18:30
Sabada says:
SupersportHD3 will show our match guys on DSTV but am going to skul, well i will watch the replay.
October 26, 2011 at 18:35
Red Neck says:
CedarsDevil
Sorry to hear that your suffering pal. Hope you get a boost with a win against Everton.
October 26, 2011 at 18:36
RedDeviled Egg says:
Not at all sure how an average game against a League 2 side can get Valencia in the team ahead of Nani. Apart from his goal he didn’t do a whole lot.
October 26, 2011 at 18:38
slim says:
aaah supersport. i actually miss the damn channel. good memories
October 26, 2011 at 18:41
parryheid says:
I didn’t see any body as being dropped in last nights game,what I did see was for the first time in god knows how long what I would call a proper reserve team on the park.
October 26, 2011 at 18:45
Sabada says:
Slim

which futball channel do u have mate.
October 26, 2011 at 18:48
slim says:
skysports these days mate.
October 26, 2011 at 19:01
Costas says:
@Sparkz

I guess time will tell whether the pecking order will change depending on the strikers’ form. Personally, I am not too certain because like I said, it appeared to me as early back as the first 2-3 games of the season that Fergie’s top 3 were Rooney, Welbeck and Chicharito regardless of each player’s form. For example, Berbatov played just as well as Welbeck at the Hawthorns, yet Danny still started against Spurs. Then Welbeck gets injured against Arsenal and Fergie prefers to bring on Hernandez (who was just coming back from his concussion) instead of Berbatov. Not making this to be some kind of bias towards the Bulgarian, but the way I look at it, Fergie would rather play an out of form striker that suits his system than an in form Berbatov who supposedly slows us down.
October 26, 2011 at 19:06
Costas says:
@Cedars

Heh, he’s an unofficial king. But after thuis Saturday, he could very well be WillieKingNut. That sounds kinky too.

@Sandeep

Hey mate. Well Fergie has said that it’s a squad game, so maybe he’s planning to use some players in the future. The problem now is that us fans are trying to look for answers about our recent dip in form and we do that by looking towards the absentees. Doesn’t always work like that though. Last Sunday’s team wasn’t that different to the one that played against Arsenal.
October 26, 2011 at 19:07
StatesideAussie says:
JC … the guide on the ESPN3 page doesn’t show our match against Everton, but the main ESPN guide does show it on ESPN3:

http://espn.go.com/espntv/onair/index?start=10-29-11-4:00-AM

So who the fuck knows? Anyway, it’s a fucking scandal. Last season, I got every single United match, including the pre-season games, through one channel or another. Now, Fox are threatening to cancel the Fox Soccer and Fox Soccer Plus services as of Nov 1 over a dispute with DirecTV, which basically means they are going to hike the fucking fees again, and they can’t even deliver United v Everton? A pox on all of them.
October 26, 2011 at 19:14
Costas says:
@Stateside

You actually broke down the pecking order even better than I did. That’s basically how I see it too and only injuries disrupt the structure at this point. On one hand I understand that it’s not easy trying to accomodate 7 strikers, but like you said, what if each striker becomes accustomed to his current position? At least Berbatov and Owen haven’t shown that as of yet, but it does make you wonder what Diouf and Kiko think about their current predicament.

@Denise Williams

There’s always the notion that some players are too good for Reserves games. And I think that’s why the likes of Berbatov and Owen won’t play in those games. Maybe that will change if they ask it themselves or if they need match practice after an injury, but it’s very rare that a fringe player like them would play a Reserve game. Kuszczak is another example. His situation isn’t that different to Berbatov and Owen in the sense that Fergie kept him around even though he wasn’t his first choice, just to make sure that he had backup if DDG, Linde and Amos fell short of expectations.
October 26, 2011 at 19:37
wayne says:
I don’t think Young or Nani are shoe ins over Tony V and a lot are talking about Dannys hot start to the season,he’s had his moments but has struggled in large parts of games.Don’t get why all of a sudden he’s been called automatic number three,for that matter don’t consider Herandez automatic number 2
October 26, 2011 at 19:47
denton davey says:
RedNation @ 16:55 – Maldini was able to play until he was 40. SAF said that he was the only player he’d ever seen who could defend while always staying on his feet. To a large extent, Rio is the same type of player – he’s rarely booked and makes very few fouls because he anticipates the play so well BUT he is getting exposed for the decline in his first step, which is often the key physical component of an athlete’s game.

Rio’s been really, really good for ten years; Maldini was great for twenty years. Evra’s been really good for five years; Zambrotta was better – really, really good – for twice as long.

Like I wrote earlier, I think that Rio’s days as a #1 central defender are numbered (in low numbers) but he has the innate ability as a footballer that he can evolve and change his game – the same way that SirRyanGiggs has done. That’s why I think Rio’s future might lie as a central midfielder/sweeper who “reads the danger” but isn’t the last line of defence.

Patrice Evra, on the other hand, is a “ninja footballer” – so tough, so hard, and so very athletic – but his reading of the game and, therefore, his positional play is suspect against top-level teams as we saw last weekend and, before that, against Barcelona in London. The very fact that he’s left-footed is a bonus, though. I don’t see why he couldn’t be as good as – if not better than – the right-footed left-wing options that are currently playing. Sure, Evra’s crossing isn’t great but Ashley Young never crosses with his left foot !
October 26, 2011 at 19:51
denton davey says:
Slim @ 17:13: ” You could see Dimi reacting positively to Ravel, Pogba and Tom C. This might cause controversy but he could be these kids Cantona.”

SAF bought Dimmy to be TheWayneBoy’s Cantona.
October 26, 2011 at 19:52
Costas says:
Yeah Denton, but the one time Ashley crossed with his left, the ball ended up in the back of the net.
October 26, 2011 at 20:04
Costas says:
Not that it’s possible this time, but in the past, Shity have followed up a huge win against us with a lousy run of form. This time it’s different with them going for the quaruple and everything, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the win went to their heads.
October 26, 2011 at 20:05
JC says:
GO Wolves! 1-0
October 26, 2011 at 20:08
Red Nation says:
LOL costa
October 26, 2011 at 20:10
JC says:
@Stateside – agreed a fucking travesty, i hope its on but if not i’ll get up and watch the live feed on the streaming site. Also I pay enough to DTV ($15.95/mo) for 1 fucking channel (Fox Soccer Plus) and additionally for the sports pack to get the regular Fox Soccer that they shouldn’t ever have to raise any rates it’s not like these channels are part of the standard package, it’s ridiculous.
October 26, 2011 at 20:14
Costas says:
Heh, I wrote my last comment before I heard about Wolves’ goal.
October 26, 2011 at 20:14
gaz says:
come on wolves!
October 26, 2011 at 20:22
JC says:
1-1, Well fuck that looked like our defending on saturday… hope they still pull it out and knock those cunts out.
October 26, 2011 at 20:24
wayne says:
The amount of overreaction to Citys win is fucking stupid,still going on about it on Talk Sport 11vs11 Utd were the better team,Evans had a moment of madness and City banged in 3 late goals.
The way these fucking clowns are talking City came from a different planet.Tell you what I must watch different games to everyone else,including some on here
October 26, 2011 at 20:25
Red Neck says:
It would suit city if the season finished in October that’s for sure. They’ve had all their Christmases come at once. Now they’ve got to come back down to earth fast. It’s one thing doing it against us and thinking you’ve already won the league but they have to now maintain it for another seven months. City haven’t been in this position for a very long time whilst we are the masters of it. Costas makes a very good point when he says that their victory over us may go to their heads, I hope it makes them dizzy, because if it does then I hope we are there to make the bastards pay.
October 26, 2011 at 20:26
JC says:
Well nevermind, this game is over. Fucking cunts.
October 26, 2011 at 20:26
Costas says:
Fun’s over.
October 26, 2011 at 20:27
gaz says:
poxy fucks
October 26, 2011 at 20:32
Whiteside says:
pozy fucks
October 26, 2011 at 20:37
CedarsDevil says:
Red Neck

Thanks for the good wishes
October 26, 2011 at 20:40
Red Neck says:
No problem my friend, your welcome.
October 26, 2011 at 20:41
Costas says:
At least Liverpool are losing.

@Red Neck

It’s something City have been known to do in the past and to be honest, it would really work to our advantage until we get our house in order. The difference now is that they have better players. But then again, that was their 2nd win at OT in 40 years and a 6-1 win at that.
October 26, 2011 at 20:42
WillieRedNut says:
You blinked it Costas!
October 26, 2011 at 20:42
dasilvatwins says:
ive had an epiphany… during one of my dead lectures in uni on acids and bases…anywho this wole ciy are favorites and they are on top of the world is great….one . united will not have any added pressure…two the media hate man city…lets face it they would hate anyone with money….hence WHEN man city slip up they will jump on their backs …chin up…we are man utd ! have faith in fergie…
October 26, 2011 at 20:58
Red Neck says:
Costas.
I agree city now have much better players than they have ever had in the past. I hope though that as last season they discover that having the players guaranties nothing without the right manager.
October 26, 2011 at 20:59
united.george says:
crap…1-1 now for liverpool.
October 26, 2011 at 21:01
Costas says:
@willie

The problem nowdays is that I don’t know how to jinx Shity. On sunday morning I said I didn’t have a good feeling about the game. They won 6-1. Today I said that they might get complacent. They will win 6-1 again…
October 26, 2011 at 21:09
united.george says:
@costas – how about stating the reverse that they should win every game? maybe that will jinx them.

unfortunately they are going to be on a high now and we cant do anything about it. Hopefully the weather gets drastically colder and the snoods start to affect the oxygen to the brain soon:)

trying to figure out if we want everton to win today. if they lose they are angry on saturday and we become the test to prove themselves. if they win, they have a lot of confidence for saturday….Hmm…

Christ it is 1-5 now for City.
October 26, 2011 at 21:11
Red Neck says:
Gary Cook was our man on the inside at city, used to jinx them for us. Shame he got careless and spoilt it.
October 26, 2011 at 21:14
wayne says:
How anyone can watch Danny or Hernandez and think either are even close to the same level as Berba is beyond me,yeah Hernandez is great poacher but his overall game isn’t great,Danny is a great prospect but still learning
People are like sheep someone gets hype and all of a sudden he’s worth 35mill like Carrol anyway fuck this I’m out
October 26, 2011 at 21:17
Costas says:
Jamie O’Hara you legend.

@Red Neck

Not sure Mancini is the right man for the job in the long run either. Plus, no team goes from October until May without some kind of blip. And the OT game aside, they’ve had it easy thus far. Their toughest tests lie ahead.

@united.george

No matter what Everton do today, they’ll cause us all sorts of problems on Saturday if we don’t have our heads screwed on straight. That’s the main thing for us now. Anyway, Everton have done ok in recent weeks, so a loss today won’t do a lot to change thgeir mood I feel.
October 26, 2011 at 21:55
united.george says:
extra time for everton now, 1-1, another half an hour…..lets keep them tired for saturday morning!
October 26, 2011 at 22:01
Red Nation says:
I want Citeh in the next round, correct all that went wrong.
October 26, 2011 at 22:02
Sparkz says:
@Costas- the game at the Hawthorns was the first game of the season, Fergie was hardly gonna make a judgement after one game! (especially as Danny had played well in the Community Shield). It makes sense to play a constant XI for the first few games to see how it goes, especially if you’re blooding a young player….and tbh, it paid dividends with Danny scoring and assisting in the next 2 games.

When he got injured and Fergie chose Chicharito to replace him….you’re right, I couldn’t say Hernandez was in any better form than Berba (as he’d missed pre season). But equally, I can’t say Berba was in any better form than him tbh. I suppose Fergie plumped for Chicharito because he suited his system better, as well as due to his hot form at the back end of last season.

I see what you’re saying about the striking positions being a bit of a closed shop atm….but I do think that if Welbeck and Chicha were to lose form drastically, Berba etc would get their chances. At the moment that’s not happening though….Welbeck in particular has played really well, even in the last 2 games vs Liverpool and City he’s been one of our better players…….so why would we change it just because Berba had a great game vs Aldershot?
October 26, 2011 at 22:05
Saad says:
Suddenly, Newcastle look like a tough team to beat. They’re unbeaten in the season in all competitions.
October 26, 2011 at 22:06
Costas says:
Hmm, I didn’t realize Everton equalized. Their chief tormentor again.
October 26, 2011 at 22:08
Costas says:
And Blackburn just scored Saad.

I think October 26 should be renamed “we spoke too soon” day.
October 26, 2011 at 22:15
Saad says:
@Costas

Yeah, me and my big mouth!

But in their defence, it was really bad luck. Wicked deflection, “Krul” luck for Newcastle.

Someone answer this: why is Shitty scoring so freely and we’re not? (frown on my face with a hint of concern)
October 26, 2011 at 22:17
Saad says:
@Costas
October 26, 2011 at 22:18
Costas says:
@Saad

I spoke too soon by the looks of it. 3-3!

As for your question, it’s a purple patch imo. Liverpool went through a similar one after they scored 4 at OT. The good news is that nothing lasts forever, lol.
October 26, 2011 at 22:20
Saad says:
Hands up if you want United to drawn against City in the next round…at OT!
October 26, 2011 at 22:21
Saad says:
Drenthe out! Gonna miss the United game. Glad about that…the guy scares me….and he’s fast like friggin Usain!
October 26, 2011 at 22:22
Costas says:
Drenthe sees red, so one less Toffee we have to face.

I’ll raise my hand up about the City draw, but provided Evans plays in that. He has a point to prove as much as anyone.
October 26, 2011 at 22:24
Sparkz says:
You are not being serious! Chelsea conceding that late equaliser just stopped me from winning £25 on my accumulator.

Add that to the pain of yesterday, when I was FIVE minutes away from winning £160…..before Preston conceded a late equaliser.

Gutted.
October 26, 2011 at 22:26
Saad says:
If Smalling and Vidic are fit, I’m sorry, then Jonny cannot start ahead of them in such a match. Don’t care how many points he’s got to prove.

Jonny’s a good player but he’s always got one big error in him per game. Maybe psychological. If it is, I hope he gets help. He cannot continue like this for United. Maybe Wigan or Sunderland, but not United.
October 26, 2011 at 22:28
Saad says:
Leighton, the “Baines” of Chelsea’s existence.
October 26, 2011 at 22:28
united.george says:
1-2 for chelsea now, sturridge.
October 26, 2011 at 22:29
Saad says:
Looks like it’s going to be one of the juiciest QFs in League Cup history.
October 26, 2011 at 22:31
Costas says:
Curtains for Everton. Can’t wait for that draw now! Typically Chelsea will get Cardiff or Crystal Palace at the Bridge…
October 26, 2011 at 22:34
Saad says:
Well, all I care is that we get the next game at OT. That’s two games we’ve played away.
October 26, 2011 at 22:35
united.george says:
4-3 Blackburn now….

strange, city have wolves on saturday at home….cant imagine what the score would be for that one
October 26, 2011 at 22:36
jim says:
When will the draw be made?
October 26, 2011 at 22:37
Costas says:
@Sparkz

I guess Chelsea winning in extra time doesn’t count? Bah, I hate betting on football matches. I always get them wrong.

@Saad

I could count a number of games against Chelsea and Liverpool were Evans has played well. It was Danny Mills (what a pundit, lol) that said that Evans has a big error in him per game. Well a) that’s not true and b) very few players go through a game without mistakes. Lord knows Vida has seen his fair share of red cards in big games. Not absolving Evans of any responsibility, but he was just part of the problem.
October 26, 2011 at 22:40
Costas says:
The draw is on Saturday. During the morning I assume..

The game is sandwiched between Newcastle at home and Villa away. It will be an exciting 7 days.
October 26, 2011 at 22:47
mikekelly12 says:
The draw is on Saturday mate.

I hope the extra time affects Everton on Saturday.

I’ll put my hand up to be drawn to play against City in the next round!!!
October 26, 2011 at 22:47
Sparkz says:
Nope unfortunately not mate, 90 minutes only!

RE Evans- it’s just that he’s a confidence player. Unlike Smalling and Jones, who I don’t feel let mistakes get to them as much….Evans on the other hand can let one little slip ruin his day, and even the following games.

He’s actually been fairly solid this season, and he was fantastic against Liverpool. But in all honesty, I see him becoming the new Wes or JOS (which isn’t a bad thing at all, every side needs a good supporting cast). Someone who’ll never really be a regular, but will be the first defender off the bench, a good back up. His ability to do a decent job at left back adds to this.
October 26, 2011 at 22:53
Costas says:
@Sparkz

Argh, that sucks. Never trust Chelsea to do anything in the proper manner.

In regards to Evans, it’s definitely been a rollercoaster 8 days. Most of us lauded him after the Anfield game (no big errors there Mr Mills?) and then came the City game. I agree about him becoming a good utility player. I am actually surprised Fergie hasn’t given him a couple of games at left back this season. After the game at Ewood Park last season, I felt that one of the reasons why O’Shea left was because Evans could play at full back.
October 26, 2011 at 23:07
MG says:
G’day Reds!

Absolutely stunning is Melbourne well done to United!

Hope all are well look forward to the next game

Nothing changes at 9 matches played a balance of power can only be judged after the end of the 38th game until then we will learn from our mistakes and carry on.

19
October 26, 2011 at 23:20
fergie is the boss says:
well been well and truly embarrassed to go on any sports site, even so shamed not even come on ROM. The defeat was such a kick in the stomach, but I will not go on any sports sites apart from ROM for at-least 6 months or even longer until the team rights the wrongs of this embarrassing defeat. Good victory last night but the wounds are nowhere near healed and wont be for a while yet
October 26, 2011 at 23:42
slim says:
Hey, FITB’s popped back. now worries mate, its been rough on all of us. Not to worry the sport sites aren’t gloating as much. there’s always the numpty who say dial 0161616161 or some shit like that but over all nothing too serious. But i understand if you won’t take my word for it
Take it easy buddy
October 26, 2011 at 23:56
denton davey says:
Wayne @ 21:14: “How anyone can watch Danny or Hernandez and think either are even close to the same level as Berba is beyond me,yeah Hernandez is great poacher but his overall game isn’t great,Danny is a great prospect but still learning”

You are asking (and answering) the wrong question – it’s clear to anyone with eyes to see that Dimmy has superior skills to Chicharito and/or DannyTheLad. That’s not the point. Indeed, even a confirmed BerbaSceptic like me wouldn’t argue with you about their relative “skills”.

What’s getting sorted by SAF is which of these guys best complements TheWayneBoy – he is, after all is said and done, UTD’s most important attacking player.
October 26, 2011 at 23:58
Warwick says:
Had too much to drink —– but united are the 1. B!elieve
October 27, 2011 at 00:04
denton davey says:
What a surprise:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/hargreaves-injured
October 27, 2011 at 00:07
Warwick says:
Denton davey – lovin it. Also think Tevez was our Trojan horse for city! What a wanker
October 27, 2011 at 00:08
Sparkz says:
@Denton- They’re not just in the team coz they best complement Rooney (although that’s a big part of it). I’d say that they complement the overall play of the TEAM better as well.
October 27, 2011 at 00:26
wayne says:
Yeah we’ve looked like a well oiled machine what a bunch of fucking rubbish
October 27, 2011 at 00:49
StatesideAussie says:
Wayne … I love Berbatov to bits. The day I am no longer able to see his silky touch, rejoice in his intelligence and chuckle myself silly every time he walks (yes, walks) around someone else’s penalty box with the ball at his feet while they try in vain to get it back … well, that will be a sad day for me. Still, I will remain forever grateful for the moments of joy that he has given me. That hattrick against the dippers is burned in the memory forever, along with that sideays scissors kick against West Ham, and even “failures” like the day he somehow, incredibly, impossibly plucked that Paul Scholes cross-field screamer out of the air, tamed it with a single touch so that it fell obediently at his feet and then sat up begging to be kicked, except he couldn’t quite get it on target…

I do love the Berb but I feel Denton has a point. But more than that, even, is the simple reality that time marches on. He is 30 now, soon to be 31. True, he appears to have lost none of his powers, and his style of play may indeed lend itself to a longer career than many in his position. Nevertheless, in his career, the sun is dipping toward the horizon. Will it be one of those lingering, northern twlights that continues to shine until late into the night? Or will it be an equatorial sunset, one moment burning bright, the next, gone in a snap of the fingers? I don’t know. But either way, it is approaching and it won’t be denied.

In the short term, I think he could be used more, and I think he should be — not because of any problem with Welbeck or Hernandez, but simply because I think the team needs a little bit of a shake up and I think sylstically, that’s what he offers. I also liked the way he played with the young lads yesterday and would like to see more of that too.
October 27, 2011 at 00:53
Sparkz says:
Looking at a lot of our games in the last 10 weeks of last season and first 6 weeks of this season…..I’d say we looked pretty well oiled yeah
October 27, 2011 at 01:11
wayne says:
We caught Gunners and Spurs at the right time and everyone was scoring lots against Bolton,take away those 3 games how good have we looked
October 27, 2011 at 01:23
Sparkz says:
Last season, the football we played from March onwards was better than the 6 months beforehand. Just off the top of my head- the run to the Champions League final we played some quality stuff, Chelsea in the League, Arsenal in the FA Cup….all big games where the football was top draw.

This season, you can say we caught Spurs and and Arsenal at the right time…but don’t forget the weekend before, Liverpool struggled to beat Arsenal.

Overall, we look far better when we have a pair of mobile, agile forwards.
October 27, 2011 at 01:31
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Wayne – you say that but you still have to win, i’m baffled with this ‘we caught them at the right time’, who gives a fuck? you win the games given to you.
October 27, 2011 at 01:35
wayne says:
Dippers are shit why are we comparing Utd with those cunts,let’s not start on Berba is too slow again please
October 27, 2011 at 01:42
Sparkz says:
Well sorry, but coming out with stuff like “we caught them at the right time” is pretty petty tbh. Give credit where credit’s due. Shall we play down Berba’s hat trick against Liverpool last season then? Shall we say “it was Liverpool under Hodgson, they were shit, we caught them at the right time”?

And I’m just saying….Berba’s got his strengths, no question about it. Skill, touch, vision etc. But high energy and pressing defenders from the front is not one of them. Doesn’t make him a bad player (just like Veron wasn’t a bad player).
October 27, 2011 at 01:44
Samuel - united WE stand says:
I’d rather have palace at home in the league cup, city are fucking brimming with confidence at the moment and with a match against wolves next in the league, i can only see a cricket score for the blue bastards.
October 27, 2011 at 01:54
wayne says:
Samuel I don’t give a fuck,Sparkz said we looked like a well oiled machine early my point its all relative not sure why you’re baffled by that,take away victories against struggling teams how good have we looked?.Everyone keeps saying Danny and Hernandaz compliments Rooney better than Berba,sorry I haven’t seen that.Berba is a better player,I know I’m old but I always thought playing the best players gave a team a better chance of winning
October 27, 2011 at 01:55
Sabada says:
I will like us to be drawn with this city cunt.
October 27, 2011 at 01:55
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Tired with this crap on berba, his last match against stoke he was fucking anonymous, ok we know he has the technical skills, well that’s not enough to be honest, he has to perform in training and yesterday was a good performance from him against a lower league opposition, the point is can he put in the same shift against a difficult everton side? lets see what team fergie puts out.
October 27, 2011 at 01:59
wayne says:
Not petty at all just a fact,Gunners and Spurs are much better teams now than they were at the beginning of the season,you can’t see that not much to say really
October 27, 2011 at 02:05
slim says:
wayne

for what its worth i think dimi is better player, thing is roo fits more, no slight on roo cos he’s a class player too. I’ve always said there must be a problem if we cant utilize our best players – in Berbatov’s case, one of our best players. if we miraculously got messi and it didn’t work out i’m sure alarm bells’ll be ringing as to why.
Anyway team dynamics and all, its not an exact science, but i do hope we can see the best of all our players Dimitar included and maybe especially. If we do, i guarantee the OT will be ringing out ooooohh aaaaaaaaah berba every home game
October 27, 2011 at 02:06
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Wayne – struggling or not, if united don’t turn up against these teams then they’d be turned over, yes the other teams weren’t performing but you still have to win, the league doesn’t care what opposition you face or what state they’re in as long as you win and technically yes berba is than them both but i think the style united employ do not match up with berba, its as simple as that and i don’t see that changing but rather than feeling sorry for himself, i’m sure he’d want to prove the manager wrong, i hope he gets his chance at everton and he may well do, we lack composure and thats exactly what berba is known for, he can bring that to the team as its been lacking.

No matter how much of a fan of the bulgarian you are, you know he isn’t in the future of this club, he may well sign a new deal and his experience can be valuable but for the future, he won’t be in it.
October 27, 2011 at 02:06
wayne says:
Samuel you must be joking it was his first start of the season,I’m fucking sick of you Sparkz and denton talking shit about him,instead of admitting none of you like him.If you don’t see Berba is a class above Danny and Hernandez at the moment not my problem,just stop saying shit that quite frankly is just stupid,its a two way street
October 27, 2011 at 02:06
StatesideAussie says:
Samuel. “yesterday was a good performance from him against a lower league opposition” But he can only play what’s given to him. You just said so yourself. And why are you still crapping on about him needing to perform in training? You said this yesterday, and I pointed out that the gaffer himself has been extremely complimentary about Berbatov’s effort and attitude in training, said it couldn’t be better. Do you go to training? I am dying to know, so why don’t give us a report of what you saw, so that we can understand why your assessment is better than Sir Alex fucking Ferguson’s. I get that some people don’t like Berbatov, and yes, you’re entitled to have an opinion and express it. But saying shit that implies he hasn’t been pulling his weight is bullshit, especially when it directly contravenes what SAF himself has aaid several times.
October 27, 2011 at 02:13
slim says:
Sparkz

did you see him last night, i’m not sure. Skip last night, the man hustles,watch his games again if you can. He hustles as much as he can. Made a point yesterday about the way we always have to bust a gut to get the ball back, sorry but that to me is inefficient. What if you can’t sprint Usain Bolt style you can’t play for United? Sorry there’a a lot wrong with that. And i hope to fuck that isn’t the case
October 27, 2011 at 02:14
CedarsDevil says:
Ah the Berba discussion….Always brings out the love here!
October 27, 2011 at 02:16
Sparkz says:
Is Berba a better player than Danny or Chicha- course he is! It’s not as clear cut as that though, it’s about what makes the team function better. Fergie obviously believes we’re better with Chicha or Danny partnering Rooney.

I will say this though- as Slim pointed out…..in an ideal world you’d wanna utilise your best players. And technically, Berba’s one of the best at the club. It just hasn’t worked out for him with the team dynamics…but it’s not squarely his fault, I don’t think the team have adapted to him too well either.

Another thing- if he didn’t keep going missing in the crunch games, when the heat is on, then he’d give Fergie more of a headache, and maybe the Gaffer would try and find a way to incorporate him. As it is, Fergie’s finding it too easy to keep him out, if you know what I mean. Even when he was scoring last season, there was still question marks over him in terms of two things- his consistency and his performances in the big games.
October 27, 2011 at 02:17
Samuel - united WE stand says:
anyway i’m just worried about everton, i’m worried as fuck as they’ll ply as much pressure as they can, time to return to basics. defend and attack as a team, stay compact and solid, match them for workrate and fight, concentrate, keep possession well, pass with accuracy and incisiveness and then impose our game, if we don’t do at least a few things i just listed against everton, we’d be lucky to get anything.

My confidence in this team since saturday has waned, glad to have cleverly back, he doesn’t try any glory balls and keeps it ticking with accurate one touch passing, he is developing into a real playmaker and he’s a light amongst the dark gloomy midfielers we seem to have right now.
October 27, 2011 at 02:19
Sabada says:
Berbatov is one of the player i love and admire, this guys saying shit about him doesnt know football.
He gat evrytin, can hold the ball very well, dribles,skills, energy,goals
chicharito cant even hold the ball outside the box
October 27, 2011 at 02:21
Mr C says:
Last time I looked Wayne played for United not the other way round. All this talk of picking the team on who plays best with Rooney
October 27, 2011 at 02:27
slim says:
Samuel

Your’re right on whats needed for saturday, that’s for sure. Not sure of the teams state of mind but i’m hoping they snapped out of the debacle on sunday. In some ways its too much to ask but no need for heads to drop completely. This squad is still a good one, hoping they’are up for it this weekend. Actually think we can nip Everton inevitable battle ready state of mind. You just know they’ll be thinking, yeah lets have a go. We’ll see
October 27, 2011 at 02:28
CedarsDevil says:
Samuel

You worried ahead of a game buddy? Now that’s a first! hahaha
October 27, 2011 at 02:29
NotoriousRedDevil says:
About to go bed was just seein what the crack was. For those who say Berba is too old. How old was Teddy when he scored in the European Cup Final? How old was he when he finished top scorer in 2001? If he’s too old I hope for your sakes your employers don’t show you the same courtesy when you’re in your 40s and 50s. Nightie night

PS @ Cedars – Was watchin ESPN Classics saw a great diving heading assist from Robbo to set up Hughes for the winner at the Dell in September 14th 1991. Instantly thought of you mate. What a player. Couple of cracking goal from Bestie and Law in different games. How I wish I was alive to see them play.
October 27, 2011 at 02:40
Sparkz says:
Teddy didn’t have 2 or 3 quality young strikers coming in and making a big impact though. Similar players though.

Mr C- You’re right….but whether you like him or not (and there’s a lot of people that don’t after last October’s shenanigans)….he’s our most important player, and when he plays well, we generally play well. Not saying he’s totally undroppable, but he’s to us what Messi is to Barca (in terms of importance before anyone gets on my back!). If you want a more Utd-like example…Roy Keane.

As for Everton….not saying it in a cocky way, but I can’t see us not doing the business there. After last week, Fergie will be hell bent on putting it right and that’ll transmit right through to the players. This is United, it just HAS to be put right, and put right immediately.
October 27, 2011 at 02:42
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Slim – i can see everton thinking they can take advantage of united possibly still having that disaster in the back of their mind, we have to show that isn’t case. their fans will be up for it with the same ‘rooney betrayed us’ malarky, i just hope we stay on the pitch with 11 men, it will be a difficult but let the game commence and hopefully we’ll turn up.
October 27, 2011 at 02:43
StatesideAussie says:
Anyone know how many games Berbatov and Hernandez have started together?
October 27, 2011 at 02:43
Mr C says:
sorry mispost.

What I meant to say in full is that last time I looked Rooney played for United, not the other way round, and as such picking a side around him -ie who plays with Wayne- is dangerous, misguided folly. With the exception of Maradona’s Napoli I can hardly think of a case where this approach has been sucessfully tried or implemented successfully. Wayne’s a decent player but no Maradona…he’s just another striker option – or should be. No shoe-ins, no undroppables. That’s the only way to keep players on their toes.
October 27, 2011 at 02:46
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Cedars – buddy, my worries have just doubled, since saturday i’ve locked myself away from the media and every fucking a.b.u who will claim our demise and say city’s empire is rising, yes they have money and are on the top but we will fight, its the only way.
October 27, 2011 at 02:49
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Stateside – once against stoke away i think.
October 27, 2011 at 02:55
StatesideAussie says:
I’d like to see Hernandez or Welbeck play when we think there’s a good chance there’ll be some space for them to exploit, whether through a counter-attack or for some other reason. And I’d like to see Berbatov play when we think the other team will shut it down more, close it up — not necessarily park the bus, though that too. But I’d also like to see us try Berbatov with Hernandez/Welbeck, with Berbatov playing slightly behind, to see if he can help open up space, by holding the ball up around the perimeter of the penalty box to entice the defenders out, while our wingers stretch them wide. (Barcelona are very good at this, though they have a whole batallion of outfield players who work together in this regard, teasing, teasing, until eventually a gap opens up.) However, that doesn’t appear to leave room for Rooney.
October 27, 2011 at 02:58
CedarsDevil says:
NRD – Cheers for the mention my friend, my late dad was lucky enough to have watched the Babes, even was at at the final in 68 and met the late Duncan Edwards… How lucky is that eh?
I was privileged enough to watch Robbo play live for years and indeed it was an honor…

Samuel – Do not worry so much buddy, we will prevail, its UNITED and we never do things the easy way do we?
October 27, 2011 at 02:59
Sparkz says:
Surely they would have started a lot more together, whilst Rooney was injured and then sent to America last season?
October 27, 2011 at 02:59
CedarsDevil says:
Just to point out, he did not meet him in 68 obviously! Me and my bloody typos!
October 27, 2011 at 03:00
StatesideAussie says:
Samuel … and what about last season, though? How many times did they play together then? I’m just curious, because it seems to be accepted that they don’t work together well, but I don’t remember it being tried very often.
October 27, 2011 at 03:04
Sparkz says:
@ Stateside- I can see that being an option when we’re chasing a game, with Rooney dropping back into a centre midfield role. We did that chasing the game at the Emirates last season (although Owen was on in place of Hernandez at that point). That was probably the wrong game to do it in, as Arsenal play a high line rather than closing it down…but you catch my drift.
October 27, 2011 at 03:06
StatesideAussie says:
I just checked. They started together 7 times last season, including both matches against Stoke.
October 27, 2011 at 03:07
CedarsDevil says:
Thing is we only get to see 90 minutes of the players on the pitch… The boss sees them every day in training and I am sure he has his reasons for not playing Berba more often….

Still hurts seeing him on the bench though!
October 27, 2011 at 03:12
CedarsDevil says:
I usually check scores and watch the occasional league game say from Spain, Italy etc but never in my life have I ever taken notice of the league in Norway, except now!

COME on Ole!
October 27, 2011 at 03:17
Sparkz says:
I was talking to my younger brother about this the other week (after the Benfica game). And he said that he believes the Man City FA Cup match was the final straw with regards to Fergie’s view of Berba, and that he lost trust in him after that.

In some ways, you could say he was kept as an insurance policy. There was no guarantee that Welbeck would start so well (and there’s no guarantee he’ll continue like this). There was also the chance that Hernandez would suffer second season syndrome. Add to that the fact that Rooney & Welbeck are a bit injury prone….and you can see why Fergie would want Berba at the club, though not necessarily playing him as long as the other 3 are firing.
October 27, 2011 at 03:21
StatesideAussie says:
Cedars …like I posted earlier, I am convinced the boss is trying to get the squad transition complete before he himself calls it a day, and to do that, he needs to make sure of these young guys. Meaning: he has to put them through the hoops, against top opposition, to see if they’re up to it. If they are, he needs to give them all the experience he can. And if they’re not, then he may need to make other plans. And no matter how much some of us love Berbatov, he simply isn’t the future of this club. He can’t be. And I think this is a big thing — I think it has to be, because from the club’s point of veiw, the worst possible scenario of all is having to replace SAF at the same time as the squad itself needs a major overhaul due to age. Having to replace SAF is bad enough. But requiring the new manager to deal with a squad whose established players are all about to retire, and whose younger players are as yet unproven, is significantly worse. But if SAF can work with the young guys long enough for them to prove themselves, get some runs of their own on the board, and be well into the process of easing the older players out, that’s a nuch better situation to be in.
October 27, 2011 at 03:23
CedarsDevil says:
I actually believe that Owen is the insurance policy as it were not Berba… The latter still has a big part to play and will in my opinion
October 27, 2011 at 03:28
CedarsDevil says:
StatesideAussie

Well said my friend… Mind you that dreaded day will come eventually when the boss calls it quits. I agree with you, he will make sure that when that day comes the club is in fine shape

Damn I would hate to have his job!
October 27, 2011 at 03:29
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Stateside – i don’t remember them starting many matches, however i think they can compliment each other, berba drops deep and hernandez up top at the expense of rooney you’d imagine.
October 27, 2011 at 03:33
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Stateside – looks like you’ve found out they started a few matches, i wasn’t totally sure.
October 27, 2011 at 03:39
CedarsDevil says:
Remember this one fellas? Little Pea can sure finish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMpHCudiA4
October 27, 2011 at 03:55
denton davey says:
Wayne @ 2:06: “If you don’t see Berba is a class above Danny and Hernandez at the moment not my problem”

I suggest that you read my comment @ 23:56.

Better still, let me re-quote it since you seem oblivious what’s been written:

“You are asking (and answering) the wrong question – it’s clear to anyone with eyes to see that Dimmy has superior skills to Chicharito and/or DannyTheLad. That’s not the point. Indeed, even a confirmed BerbaSceptic like me wouldn’t argue with you about their relative “skills”.

What’s getting sorted by SAF is which of these guys best complements TheWayneBoy – he is, after all is said and done, UTD’s most important attacking player.”
October 27, 2011 at 03:57
denton davey says:
StateSide Aussie @ 0:49: “I do love the Berb but I feel Denton has a point. But more than that, even, is the simple reality that time marches on. He is 30 now, soon to be 31. True, he appears to have lost none of his powers, and his style of play may indeed lend itself to a longer career than many in his position. Nevertheless, in his career, the sun is dipping toward the horizon.”

Are you a BerbaSceptic in disguise ?
October 27, 2011 at 03:58
CedarsDevil says:
I miss the twins, why are they so frigging fragile?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPwZhHPZLC8&feature=relmfu
October 27, 2011 at 04:02
CedarsDevil says:
denton davey

Regardless whether we agree or not I do enjoy your posts, always eloquent and great choice of words
October 27, 2011 at 04:03
denton davey says:
StateSide Aussie @ 2:56: ” that doesn’t appear to leave room for Rooney.”

Why not ?

TheWayneBoy is a footballer, first and foremost – let him play in midfield with Michael Carrick or Darren Fletcherinho.
October 27, 2011 at 04:07
StatesideAussie says:
Sparkz … he certainly wasn’t used much after the City FA Cup match, but Hernandez was taking over before that. Here’s the rundown of what happened before and after that match:

Berbatov started on Jan 22 against Birmingham and scored 3. He then started against Blackpool on Jan 25 and scored 2.

Between Jan 25 and the City FA Cup match on April 16 (a period of 11.5 weeks, so call it three months), United had 16 matches. In that period:

Berbatov started only 5 of the 16 (scoring 1 goal), and appeared as a sub in 5 (also scoring in 1)
Hernandez started in 9 of the 16, scoring in four of them (6 goals), and was subbed on twice (scoring once each time).
.
After the City match, United had another 9 matches to the end of the season.
Berbatov started only 2 of those and subbed on in another 2, but did not score at all.
Hernandez started 6 of those 9 for two goals and did not appear as a sub.
October 27, 2011 at 04:08
denton davey says:
CedarsDevil @ 4:02

Thanks. It’s better to have civility rather than “sticks and stones”.
October 27, 2011 at 04:21
CedarsDevil says:
denton davey

Agreed! Some of your debates with StatesideAussie on here have been a pleasure to read… The both of you make your points in a very mannered style…A skill that I do not have in abundance, well I do but only occasionally and if the mood is right… I quite often find that sarcasm is a lighter route!
October 27, 2011 at 04:23
Sparkz says:
@Stateside…yeah that’s what I meant, the City game appeared to be the last straw for Fergie.

From what I remember, he was pretty much a week in week out player until after the defeat at Anfield (first week of March if I’m not mistaken). From then on, Hernandez took over, starting with the FA Cup match vs Arsenal.

Whether that was because he hadn’t scored since that Blackpool game on the 25th….or whether it was because Rooney & Hernandez as a combo looked impressive during the Arsenal match..we can only speculate.
October 27, 2011 at 04:30
StatesideAussie says:
Denton … me, a BerbaSceptic? Not in the slightest. Simply a realist. 15 months from now, The Berb will be 32 years old. Like it or not, his days are numbered. It would be foolish to lose Hernandez or Welbeck now, while we allow Berbatov to play out his career in style. Because it’s not about him, any more than it’s about Rooney. It’s about the club, and the club will be around long after they and us are all gone. However, it isn’t just about keeping Hernandez and Welbeck on board either. It would also be foolish to keep them in the background. We need them to be tried and tested. We’re talking about players who may be asked to lead this club’s attack against the best teams on the planet. “Good” isn’t enough. They need to be “great.” Do they fold under pressure? Can they cope with all the different types of defence they’ll face? How’s their consistency? Once they have been playing for a while, the other teams analysts will pick them apart — are they capable of adapting to cope with that? (I feel this is especially important, because it is something that happens more and more as you play — if you’ve got a weakness, any weakness at all, somebody will find it.)

How can the club know this if they’re sitting on the bench?
October 27, 2011 at 04:31
Samuel - united WE stand says:
Denton – rooney is not a central midfield player, he lacks the discipline to play there as he buzzes around, to be honest i think we need to bring other players through to pressure on him, too many players think they’re guaranteed a place.
October 27, 2011 at 04:36
CedarsDevil says:
All settled then…. StatesideAussie is a BerbaSceptic…. Writings been on the wall to be honest! hahahaha
October 27, 2011 at 04:37
CedarsDevil says:
Be critical of him but how can you not love him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTudP9yBKtI&feature=related
October 27, 2011 at 04:41
StatesideAussie says:
Denton … I wouldn’t mind seeing Roo in the middle, but the boss doesn’t seem to like that idea. So long as Roo plays upfront or in the hole, there’s only room for one other striker. That’s why I said that.

Sparkz … the change seems to have happened in February, between the Blackpoool match and the dippers on March 6. From what I can see in the stats, those matches were fairly evenly split between the two. As for the City FA Cup match, I’ve never really blamed Berbatov for the first of those two “misses”, since that was a damn fine save by Joe Hart. But I know that’s not a popular view on here But after that match, my own belief is that SAF was starting to think ahead, saw that Hernandez was in hot form, saw that he was highly effective against the rent boys (for example), and decided to go with that. And for what it’s worth, I thought that was the right call. I thought it was the wrong call not to have Berbatov on the bench against Barcelona, but it was right to go with Hernandez. I mean, the guy was raging hot and posed unique problems for any defense — including the fact that he was largely unknown to most of them.
October 27, 2011 at 04:44
KingOfStretfordEnd says:
@stateside Aussie and Sandeep, cheers pals.

I’m excited for Saturday. Focus, and hoping for a good solid performance. Actually hope most of the lads who started at Aldershot start on Sat, but not likely I guess. I may be wrong. Besides Berba, I think Owen as well needs a shot too. You can’t deny the fact that he scores everytime he plays, and really he’s still got it in him to get to double figures if we feed him well.
October 27, 2011 at 04:44
StatesideAussie says:
Cedars … thanks for the link. Wonderful stuff.
October 27, 2011 at 04:46
StatesideAussie says:
I love that frst goal against the dippers. I swear the ladyboy is trying to give it to berba up the ass!
October 27, 2011 at 04:50
CedarsDevil says:
Stateside

Appears that way, you’re right!
October 27, 2011 at 04:54
StatesideAussie says:
KingOfStretfordEnd… yeah, Owen is another enigma. You’re right, and the boss said just this week that he scores every time he plays. Personally, I would like to see Berbatov get a leading role in the FA cup campaign this year, partly to “make amends” for last year (even though too blame was dumped on him over that), and partly because he has never won an FA Cup and he has said himself how much he’d like that. Maybe Owen could team up with him. Come to think of it, it’s been a while since United have won the FA Cup too. Long overdue for another one, I reckon.
October 27, 2011 at 04:58
KingOfStretfordEnd says:
And I’m for the midfield duo of Clev and Carrick. Carrick bashers may dislike this, but when Carrick plays we rarely lose. Keeps the ball well, and sometimes that what’s impt. He’s often criticiz for not passing forward, but really keeping possession is crucial
October 27, 2011 at 04:59
StatesideAussie says:
Cedars … yeah, that last replay, the slow-mo close-up of those two shot from a camera at our end, is definitely sus, the way the ladyboy rears back while doing a pelvic thrust and then throws his hands up as if to say “bugger, it slipped out!”
October 27, 2011 at 05:09
StatesideAussie says:
King … Carrick does keep possession well, and it is something we could use more of. The backwards passing can be a pain, but it’s also up to the others to create some movement and give him good options. Sometimes we just seem static. This is not something I could swear to (it’s just an impression I have, which might be distorted), but I reckon our worst performances are often when there’s not a lot of movement, and then those with the ball try to compensate by pushing passes to teammates who are really sitting ducks. Whether this lack of (useful) movement is a failing of ours, or whether it is somehow induced by the opposition, I can’t say. But Carrick and Berbatov are two who would prefer to sit on the ball, or pass it back, than push risky passes to players who are static and/or covered. I think it also helps to explain why some of Carrick’s best performances over the years have been in Europe.
October 27, 2011 at 05:27
ironbrand says:
…And someone thinks Cleverly should not be made captain or vice behind the silky bulgarian.
October 27, 2011 at 06:54
lordrt says:
A good bounce back, but must keep the spirits up for the weekend game as well now, we must not let the bitters go too far ahead, or let others go above us as well
October 27, 2011 at 08:04
RedManWalking says:
On Ravel Morrison, did anyone notice how, when he came on, no one was so keen on passing to him (maybe because he was a young player). But after 5 mins, the senior players were almost searching him out especially in the final third. Huge hopes for the kid.

That was good game after that idiotic display against City.

Against Everton, the line up i would like to see is

________________De Gea________________

__Smalling___Vidic____Evans___Evra(Fabio)_

__Nani____Cleverley____Berba_____Young__

___________________Rooney_____________

_____________Chicharito_________________
October 27, 2011 at 08:27
Sabada says:
Redman
i think Evans is suspended mate
October 27, 2011 at 08:33
Jeet says:
@RMW: Evans is out with a red card, and much as I would like to Berba to start, dont see it happening, unless the boss choses to shield rooney from the silly death chants. Personally, I would prefer us to line up like this, with Berba starting (particularly given that he had a stormer there last year):
DDG
Jones Smalling Vidic Evra
Nani Ando Carrick Young
Berba Wellbeck/Hernandez

In reality we will probably have Cleverly and Fletcher in midfield, Tony V at right back, and Park on the left – that’s how unpredictable the starting lineup is these days
October 27, 2011 at 08:34
jim says:
@Sabada
Hi, I heard bosingwa was suspended for just 1 game after a straight red against QPR as it was a professional foul, so might be that evans is also suspended for 1 game, which would be the carling cup match, not sure though.
October 27, 2011 at 08:37
jim says:
@Jeet
Happy Diwali.
My starting line up would be,DDG, jones, smalling, vidic, fabio/fryers, young, cleverley, carrick, nani, rooney, berba.
October 27, 2011 at 08:53
Sandeep1878 says:
Good morning lovely Red Devils around the world,

Happy Diwali to all Indians,

its a big festival in India and for Indians,

good wishes to everyone..

i m all excited for the game, cant wait for Saturday..

Good day pals
October 27, 2011 at 08:57
Mikekelly12 says:
Morning all,
Just awoke from my slumber to yet another moral boosting link from our man Cedars. Cheers pal, never fail to put a smile on our faces. Good interesting posts from many but I find that Stateside Aussie pretty much always hits nails squarely on the head with excellent well thought out posts. I Enjoy reading them mate. From one well reasoned individual to something completely unreasoned, I had a dream that Morrison hit a volley into the back of the net with the commentator saying “Morrison announces his arrival in the Premier League” don’t know who we were playing but hope it happens soon! As regards starting line ups, who knows, but what I’m eager to see is an actual bleeding right back play fucking right back! We’ve had jones, Smalling, Valencia and Fletcher have stints there already this season. Ok they’ve done ok at times but about bleedin time we had a settled right back. God I miss Nev!
October 27, 2011 at 09:02
Mikekelly12 says:
I’ve heard about it but not sure of it’s intricasys. Is it the one that involves a lot of paint? Happy Diwali to all celebrating it.
October 27, 2011 at 09:08
jim says:
@Mikekelly12,
No mate, that is Holi. Diwali is the festival of lights!! Happy Diwali to all..
October 27, 2011 at 09:19
Sabada says:
@jim that bosingwa red card is controversial.
I think evans will be 3match ban.
October 27, 2011 at 09:40
Mikekelly12 says:
Jim
Ah, I see. Cheers mate. Cool. Always up for a good celebration! Enjoy.
October 27, 2011 at 09:45
rohan19 says:
Sandeep1878 : happy diwali to you too…
the england thrashing came at the right time.. made me keep my mind of footy.
good times
October 27, 2011 at 09:52
CedarsDevil says:
Mikekelly

Pleasure my friend, glad you enjoyed it…..Was up at a strange time myself as the medication wore off. The therapy is now over and I won’t see the nurse again. I guess I could fake something! haha

Not sure I know a lot about Diwali but to all those celebrating happy holidays folks!
October 27, 2011 at 09:58
CedarsDevil says:
Just quickly back to the Berba debate (sigh) people should not forget that with out him number 19 would not be in the bag. We owe him that acknowledgement at least
October 27, 2011 at 10:04
Balaji Sivaraman says:
Happy Diwali folks! Dubai was bursting with crackers yesterday though it is actually sort of illegal to be doing that on the streets. The government wouldn’t dare to ban something this dear to Indians considering we make up nearly 70% of their population. Went out with friends yesterday, so couldn’t come online at all.

Going through the posts, yesterday was ROM at its best. Stateside, Denton, Slim, Sparkz, Red Nation, Costas all contributed to the great debate on our rather unique striker situation. Rather sad that I couldn’t join in, but catching up with them made sure my morning today was really enlightening. Great stuff to all you guys.

Of course, Cedars as usual made sure that the mood was consistently light with his insanity.
October 27, 2011 at 10:21
CedarsDevil says:
Why thank you for the mention Balaji! You’re right about Dubai buddy, Indians are by far the majority and the authorities are always careful how they deal with you guys! Good on ya, now shove it up their butts! hahaha

Oh wait, this is not a United v City discussion! Damn me and my big mouth
October 27, 2011 at 10:24
CedarsDevil says:
Berba’s smile alone is worth 30 million
October 27, 2011 at 10:42
mikekelly12 says:
Cedars
Real shame she’s gone buddy but positive as it is a positive sign you’re on the mend.

New thread fellas..
October 27, 2011 at 12:41
Sparkz says:
Thanks Balaji- Happy Diwali and Saal Mubarak mate!
October 27, 2011 at 15:36
denton davey says:
Samuel @ 4:31: ” rooney is not a central midfield player, he lacks the discipline to play there as he buzzes around”

Fifteen years ago, Paul Scholes was not a central midfielder. He always “lacked discipline” in the tackle and learned how to be positionally responsible. In the 2000-2007 period, one of the GingerNinja’s greatest assets – and one of my greatest joys to behold – was seeing this little guy flash into the box and direct the ball into the back of the net. The last time he did that was in the last minute of FergyTime against ManShitty in the derby, about 18 months ago. I see no reason whatsoever why TheWayneBoy can’t be just as effective in a similar role – he’s faster and stronger than Paul Scholes ever was, too.

I know that you might reply, “well, OK, but he’s better as a striker”. I wouldn’t disagree with that BUT I would counter that there are already four other strikers – DannyTheLad, Chicharito, Dimmy, and LittleMikey – some of whom are collecting splinters from sitting on the bench.

Then I would say, any two of those four (along with Nani, Young, and Valencia) can handle to goal-scoring but who is going to be the main-man linking attack and defence ?

Finally, I’d say that the team can get better value out of TheWayneBoy by having him in midfield, spraying passes, running-into-the-box, lashing thirty yarders, and generally “lacking discipline” so that he was hard for the opposition to defend against.

But, like StateSideAussie wrote (@ 4:41) “the boss doesn’t seem to like that idea. So long as Roo plays upfront or in the hole, there’s only room for one other striker.” So, I guess I’ll have to send Alex a text telling him to shape up !
October 27, 2011 at 15:41
denton davey says:
KingOfStretfordEnd @ 4:58: “And I’m for the midfield duo of Clev and Carrick. Carrick bashers may dislike this, but when Carrick plays we rarely lose. Keeps the ball well, and sometimes that what’s impt. He’s often criticiz for not passing forward, but really keeping possession is crucial”

The recently-departed (and much lamented) KingEric would be happy with that bigging-up of Michael Carrick. Me, too. “when Carrick plays we rarely lose” – the guy must be something more than chopped liver, eh ?
October 27, 2011 at 15:44
denton davey says:
StateSideAussie @ 5:09: “Carrick does keep possession well, and it is something we could use more of. The backwards passing can be a pain, but it’s also up to the others to create some movement and give him good options. Sometimes we just seem static. ”

Sounds like a perfect complement to TheWayneBoy who, it is generally agreed, “lacks discipline”.
October 27, 2011 at 15:47
denton davey says:
MikeKelly12 @ 8:57: “Morrison hit a volley into the back of the net with the commentator saying “Morrison announces his arrival in the Premier League” ”

Do you have a link for that ?

VIDEO: Berbatov, Owen and Valencia’s Goals vs Aldershot

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