ปแผปออิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิ… by footyroom
VIDEO: Nani and Kagawa Goals vs Spurs
September 30, 2012 203 Comments
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Still don’t know how united didn’t pull that match out of the fire. They could have scored 6 in the second half.
Bit of a role reversal in both goals. Rooney and RVP with the assists. Nice to see some interchanging.
secret agent fergie
whos he working for ?
Really should have gotten Dembele especially if we’ve Bebe….
This loss has really put me off…not that we lost but how it happened…tired of Fergie’s tactics in starting old men like he does it’s like he is fine with ceding possession in the first half…rooney once again proved the talisman and even if he’s half fit he needs to play…ffs, why buttner, clevs, or ando didn’t even sniff the pitch is beyond me
@DirtyDevil –> Scholes has been an enormously important player for us already this season. He changed the game against Southhampton and the game at Anfield. Dismissing him as an old man is ridiculous.
Fergie started Giggs today because he couldn’t start Nani on the left (young, valencia injured) and his attempts to push welbeck into the role have failed so far (and he has been gutted by comments on here for playing welbeck).
The mistake he made today was not starting Rooney IMO. That single substitution had an enormous impact. People on here are so quick to criticize Rooney but when he’s gone we feel his absence.
I saw the game, and every other game this season! Scholes was not back for that third goal along with half our defense but it’s still no excuse…he has to get back there, everyone has to get back for that matter. What other excuse is there for why he didn’t get back? I’m well aware of the injury report but Scholes shud be no more than a supersub…I c no reason why clevs didn’t get a shot when he’s an international who is young and can play back to back games in a few days
Nani played better but he was at fault in da build up to the first goal we conceded
Our defense was shit…our lack of pace is alarming
@DirtyDevil, you can’t single Scholes out for criticism for the third goal, he’s not a defender and there’s no reason that dempsey should have been left completely unmarked. It’s up to Rio and Jonny to play centre half, not scholes. As for saying he should only be an impact sub, he’s still the best midfielder we have, the reason he has played as a sub is because of his age, not his ability. The thing that annoys me about this place is if he’d have played welbeck and we didn’t win.. we would be asking why Giggs didn’t take up his traditional LM/LW role. If he started Cleverely and left out Scholes and we didn’t win we’d be asking why our ginger prince wasn’t played. If he had played Rooney and we didn’t win, people here would be only too happy to call him a useless fuck and suggest he be sold.
Fergie sees them in training daily, and he can judge their ability better than any of us can here. He has his reasons for his team decisions. Now we move on and aim to get 6 points from 2 games in our champs league group against Cluj (which would be a major boost) and then we’ve Newcastle in the league, a fixture we lost last year. Play like we played in the second half, we’ll walk over both teams. One good thing about United when we lose, we bounce back.
The lack of pace is not the defence’s problem. You don’t need a pacey defence if they have some cover from the midfield. Look at Mertesacker, he’s having a great season but has he got pace? Has he fuck.
I think Giggs is at the end of his career. And it pains me to say that. I think when he finally does hang up his boots I’m going to cry my eyes out like a little kid, much like the little kid I was when he started playing for the first team. But I don’t see where he’s going to reinvent his way out of this one.
I look at Ryan Giggs in our starting lineup and I don’t see a weakness, not yet, but I don’t see him as bringing something that the young lads don’t. And I think that we have youngsters who need game time and who would bring more energy to the role. If Giggs had the composure of Scholes, let alone the vision, range of passing, tackling and shooting, then no biggie, but he loses the ball quite often. You can see the difference between the two men when they are both on the field, Scholes is imperious, Giggs is hanging on.
Hate to post this. Hate myself for posting it. But just because something is horrible doesn’t mean it’s not true.
I can see years more in Paul Scholes, because he’s raised his game beyond the need for pace, beyond the need for stamina, he’s like the King on a chessboard. Giggs? Can’t see it.
Personally I would have played Buttner in left midfield (he’s fit isn’t he?).
@Doghouse –> Ye, Buttner is one player who crossed my mind as a potential for the left wing too. As for Giggs, I think we need to judge him on his performance over the season instead of jumping to conclusions now. I found in recent years that Giggs seemed to give us a lot in Europe, but last season we got knocked out of Europe before he had a chance, but for example, he assisted all three goals when we knocked Chelsea out in the quarter finals, he scored in the semi final etc. So I think in terms of experience he has a lot to offer the youngsters but obviously in a physically demanding game he is going to lose out.
I totally agree about Scholes, the lad is just a human GPS. He just runs the show in midfield when he gets in form. I really hope he has taken Clevs and Nick Powell under his wing to try to teach them his trade.
@Dela If Giggs were a younger player I’d say sure, maybe he’ll get his form back, and I’m not saying bin him on a whim. But a shift to the periphery is in order for him and we’ll see what’s what at the end of the season. At least we know Kagawa can play there.
when we win, everyone is hero. when we lose we look for scape goats. it is just the fickle nature of a fan. so why don’t i get in on it too. i think rio had a shocker today to be frank. none of our defenders were on top for that matter. in 1st half our lack of pace from mid field on was alarming. wazza’s willingness to drop back to dictate played really changed things. too bad that bloody post today was probably made in london. denied united twice
winning and losing is part of the game. i’m particularly disappointed that we played like that at home…away at whl this would have been more digestive. united will bounce back. we always do. vamos you red devils.
if only our defenders tried to tackle.
if only we had a half decent first half
if only Giggsy hadn’t started the game.
If only rooney hadn’t come so agonizingly close to scoring his fk
if only VP hadn’t dragged his shot wide
IF ONLY WE HADN’T BROKEN OUR STREAK AGAINST SPURS.
No worries though. Roll on CL and next week at the Sports Direct Arena. Our defenders better have gone through a going through because Ba is in some deadly form.
Hope Evans is ok though, any update on him?
Dear oh Dear, Sir Alex blaming the lack of injury time. Our attack fizzled out before we even went into injury time. Why doesn’t he say anything about the first half?
Second half performance was awesome. We should have won or atleast drawn. Great to see rooney in action. He needs to play with RVP regularly. It is very disturbing to know that we have conceded 9 goals in 6 games. I think it is high time where we stop depending on Vidic and rio and start developing our next defensive duo. Kagawa looked better in second half. Good to see him on the scoresheet.
I don’t think many have pointed out this but for me carrick was poor. His passing wasn’t great and his tackling was also poor. I will not select players on past performance. Everyone needs opportunity and Ando and Cleverley deserve one. I feel sorry for giggs. He is not a bad player but Sir alex has to be reasonable. With giggs starting there is hardly any positive. I would prefer to lose by playing young players. What is the point in losing by playing an aged squad.
Hell I miss the old fergie who would play youngsters and took some risk. I don’t know why biut I feel sir alex has become a bit conservative in his approach. On a postive note we always have performed well after defeats like yesterday. But yesterday defeats hurt. Its only early in the season so we can overcome but it hurts.
I know this may not be relevant but I feel our 2nd coach Mike phelan should also take blame. I feel he should challenge sir alex on his team selection rather than just being a yes man. For one I have never been impressed by Phelan. He is not an inspiring fellow for me. He should be in the touch line and giving advice to our boys rather than sitting in the dug out and smiling.
3 Points at romania is what is needed now. Roll on boys
One more thing those who are saying chelsea are playing well can kiss Terry’s ass. They are playing like shit. Yeah they are winning but they will explode. Our main challengers are still city. Even though they have been far from impressive but they are getting results. It is important we beat those mercenaries at emptyhad on december 8th.
hey now where are the arsenal’s worshipers. They are over rated.Eventhough after united I would prefer arsenal to win but still they are overrated. Fuck them. They had the opportunity to show everyone they are great by beating their rivals chavs at home but they lost. So fuck them
Things that puzzle me from last night match:
1. why we never play Kagawa for full 90 minutes. I didn’t see the reason for Kagawa subs last night. He was still fit, and he was our best player.
2. And if Kagawa needs to be subtituted why we did not throw Cleverley in, instead of Welbz. I mean, Welbz is a good player but he is not a playmaker like Kagawa. Thus, We lost some creativity after Kagawa subs.
3. What the need to start with Giggsy while we have Clevz and Ando? Giggsy can come in as a 70 min subs.
4. Why DDG has still need to be dropped? DDG should have saved Bale and Dempsey goals last night. Lindy is good goalie but DDG is our numero uno, no?
Frankly, I can’t believe SAF is complaining about not getting more injury time. That’s not why we lost. We lost because of the first forty-five minutes of the match. We lost because our midfield left our attackers isolated and hardly provided any help to out already vulnerable defense.
Injury time’s got nothing to do with it!
Oops. Meant to write “our already vulnerable …”
fergie…dont blame for not getting enough extra time…the 1st 45minutes its totally ur mistake…
The problem with our current side is that here are many raw players who need minimum 2 mores seasons to be complete players. The only clear positive that is coming is development of rafael. He has improved a lot. I hope he doesn’t get benched Again when jones or smalling is fit. Smalling should be our first choice CB. I hope he is soon fit enough. I just hope we win alteast one or two trophies. Can’t afford to be trophyless again. A league cup and F.A cup would also do. Our priority should be to win the league but we have to play better for that.
Doghouse @ 01:37: “The lack of pace is not the defence’s problem. You don’t need a pacey defence if they have some cover from the midfield”
The defensive problem in all three Spurs goals was the inability of Scholes/Giggs/Carrick to turn attack into defence – they just couldn’t turn around to form the first line of defence. They were simply by-passed. Add to that Rio’s astonishing lack of pace and you’ve got a recipe for disaster – tripled.
The game was too fast for Giggs and Nani as usual gave away to much possession to spurs.. Rooney should have started and cleverly should have been brought in the centre park to help carrick and scholes. 1st half Spurs did a good job to ran with the ball all over and got two crucial goals that prooved very vital in the game. We did try to make a comeback in the second half but afta such a 1st half we shouldn’t have won. Fergy should start taking the league crious now or we will have a large ground to cover in the second half of the season. And one more centre back in January would be good signing
2. And if Kagawa needs to be subtituted why we did not throw Cleverley in, instead of Welbz. I mean, Welbz is a good player but he is not a playmaker like Kagawa. Thus, We lost some creativity after Kagawa subs.
4. Why DDG has still need to be dropped? DDG should have saved Bale and Dempsey goals last night. Lindy is good goalie but DDG is our numero uno, no?
These 2 points are completely SPOT ON. Welbz is great as a striker but not as a winger and provided absolutely nothing after coming on. And while not 100% I do believe that at least Bales shot would have been saved by DDGs much better reactions and leaping ability over Lindy who seemed to hesitate slightly to the short side before diving and missing… the palm away was more poor defending than anything though he should have pushed it much further away than dead center of the box.
Perhaps its just me, perhaps I’m just clutching at straws about why Sir Alex put out that lineup, but is there a possibility that precisely because Ando & Clev are our first choice now that they are being saved for the coming CL match? That because we totally underestimated the opposition last season and there is pressure to not mess up again this season because it would devastate our finances it we mess up again?
I don’t know, I just want to know the reason why Giggs & Scholes started together when we have never played well with them starting. Last season we went through this already, losing so many points and games when those 2 started together, and this season, its like a nightmare repeating itself. Why is it that DDG gets dropped because of a single innocent mistake, and yet Giggs gets to play when it is plainly obvious he contributes nothing to our game, and he even survived not being taken off on many occasions!
We can understand when Sir Alex keeps playing Rooney back to form when he is down, but Giggs? Surely that is not the way forward? Why not keep playing Ando & Clev until they are good? At least they run around more! And if you tell me Giggs is in there for his set piece abilities, I’ll tell you to tear into the coaches for not drilling the rest of the team into knowing how to take a corner or freekick properly
Everybody knew that we were in for a disaster when the official line-up’s were posted
i think fergie wants to make it certain we qualify from our cl group. i think ando and clev were rested for tuesday.but to be honest if they dont play against newcastle we will struggle again .
Arun : we wont struggle against newcastle.. We’ll get as badly overrun as last january..c
Yeah i agree with the cl group reason.. But common hoping to fluke it against spurs and playing the best 11 against cluj is just not like fergie
Playing Rooney late was something he had to do. He has to keep a little fear in Rooney that now with RvP and developing talents if he can’t pull his weight he will be sold on and the money reinvested. Rooney looked suitably hungry when he played. It’s a long season and you give up the tactical advantage for strategic necessity.
I wish we had DDG between the posts. Lindy’s nice enough but DDG seems to have more top end saves in him.
cant believe the manager somtimes, i love the guy but he needs to admit to making mistakes instead of silly excuses like NOT ENOUGH EXTRA TIME…jesus fuck come on….fergie keeps playing this silly ass system that isnt working and its been seen in our performances this season and also the constant team change…why does michael carrick constantly get picked regardless of his performance. anderson was immense again against newcastle yet again he is dropped for the boring does fuck all carsick…our midfield has been getting dominated for years now and fergie keeps playing the blind eye and filling us full of shit about there isnt a paul scholes about….funny how other teams can aquire good midfielders….in a mood today as u can see but im stateing the obvious…cant complain about the 2nd half performance…outstanding it was….i just hope fergie starts playing the same team and what the worry is the amounts of goals we r conceding…and now that lindegaard conceded 3 does that mean de tea is back in(who never should of been dropped in the first place mind u)
our defending was really weak, we lost the marking and our defenders especially rafael and evra was playing too wide which forced the central defenders (Rio and evans) to cover a big central zone which was very difficult while facing players like bale and dembelele.
I went nuts when a player of the caliber of Rio, didn’t try to put a sliding or crunching tackle to avoid the 2 goals. Felt same with evans as well. On thinking deeply, I believe, Fergei must have informed their central defenders (Rio and Evans) that, untd cannot afford Rio or evans being sent off, as there is no cover for them at present. So, both our central defenders hesitated to make vital challenges.
I have noticed that, untd are trying to adapt a new formation with kagawa but till now hasn’t been successful. But I hope that untd will soon find an optimum solution for it.
No complains or critisizm for scholes, only praises…what a player!
Further, I felt, in order to counter Bale, Dembele and the other speedy guns we needed anderson, who can run front and back with full of energy and use his might strength. Missed Valencia for the same reason.
To be honest, i didn’t feel bad when untd lost, its because in the second half untd got their rhythm back and i hope this will help us in long run. Yesterday in the second half I saw the real united, the red devils…
GLORY GLORY MAN UTD!!!!
I have to say it – Fergie is losing it. I know I will be called every bastard known to man on here for this but the bottom line is whinging about injury time when you allowed us to get overrun for at least the first 45 mins is useless.
Youngsters – PAH – they haven’t been given a proper chance and Carrick, Schole and giggs against that Spurs team, gotta be kidding me surely?
Time for change – ideally players if not then something else, the boat is leaving and we are presently not on it. This United team has is lacking big time
Here’s my observation…every opposing manager is attacking our obvious lack in midfield with alarming ease. This often with midfielders we’d not even deem good enough for Manchester U. Has the big man lost his nerve…?
BTW, delighted to see Rooney crossing the ball for Nani to score. About fking time!
But Kagawa’s goal was pure class.
He had his back to goal, took 3 touches while running past 2 defenders, and put it past the keeper. Scoring a screamer is one thing, but you won’t see better finishes inside the box this season.
You have to ask why the first half formation at home against a team we could have hammered in the first 45 mins. Maybe it was an experimant for the Champions League but this could have been done once the game was won (i.e. second half)
So many times Scholes and Giggs doesn’t work these days when starting a match, Paul was running the show later in the game but Sir Ryan need a long hard look.
I wish sometimes SAF would do something earlier and not wait untl half time. As soon as it was 2-0 after 30 mins SAF should have changed it – good hour then to save the mantch
SAF (you are a United God) don’t blame the lack of injury time for the defeat take the full blame for the choices you made and make Kagawa intergrate with the rest of the team and not the other way around, this is not the Bundesleagua
Not the end of the world so lets take this and move on – We’ll never die
For the life of me, I don’t understand the notion that Tom was “rested” for the Cluj game. He’s in his early 20s and hasn’t played a lot over the last month. He can’t play 3 full games in a week?
I don’t think this had anything to do with resting Tom. Ando maybe. Cleverley simply just wasn’t picked. Just like he hasn’t ever since Southampton.
Marq nailed it on the head earlier on. Dropping players (not named Evra and Giggs) at the drop of the hat isn’t helping one bit. They need consecutive matches to hit top form.
Something else I was wondering about. I saw Lindegaard get some of the blame. For which goal? I thought there was very little he could have done with all 3.
Costas – fair enough but I still regard de gea a better shot stopper than him. Lindegaard is good and solid but I personally don’t see a great in him. De gea should be installed as a starter.
This game really put me down. Disappointed despite injury crisis in our defence… we obviously should’ve done a lot better. I’m still flabbergasted
I don’t know what’s the big deal with fergie asking for additional time, completely pointless to be rambling on about it and fergie has lost it? Lost what exactly? He makes mistake like any human will, if anyone has lost it then it’s those that seek perfection from him or any man.
Costas
I think people were saying he should have done better with the second goal, but that’s just absurd. Bale was unmarked and in the box with a free shot- there isn’t much any keeper can do in that sort of situation. It was a defensive clusterfuck. End of.
To be honest, and even though I truly believe we only have ourselves to blame, Foy’s officiating was pretty hostile. We had 2 legit penalty shouts and the extra time definitely should have been more. I guess everyone that bitched around last week about United getting all the decisions is satisfied now. AVB among them. What a shame. Many credible Spurs managers failed to win at Old Trafford and we allowed this goof to do it.
@Samuel
I share that sentiment. De Gea was unjustly dropped earlier in the season and that his overall ability is better than Linde’s. However, I feel that Lindegaard should start for the time being. We don’t want to create another Carroll/Howard debacle. That being said, I was really wondering what Lindegaard did wrong yesterday. Not an expert on goalkeepers.
Anderson continues to play like he did against newcastle and united benefit. The match at st james park will be another difficult, anderson and fletch would have been ideal. We will need power, mobility and fighters in there to combat, bring scholes on later.
Like denton said, our midfield got bypassed too easily when Spurs counter attack leaving our defenders in 1 on 1 situations which was very dangerous for a out of pace Rio. I felt Carrick could have come across and nick the ball from Vertonghen instead of just laying off for the first goal.
The reason why we played well in the 2nd half was partly because Spurs decided to sit back and protect the lead thus allowing us to bombard forward and players like Carrick and Scholes to spray passes across the park. We play well when we have the ball but what happens when we dont? I don’t believe a better team would have stop attacking to protect the lead and will continue to attacking our weakness the whole game.
@dela
Ah cheers mate. Hard to see the goalie doing anything more in that situation. As soon as Bale entered our penalty box, I had flashbacks of the Inter-Tottenham game. You knew what was coming.
Costas – consistency of keeper is needed for the benefit of the back four, picking anders at the moment is understandable but against the very best, de gea usually shines and I hope he’s trusted again to nail down that position. The goals he conceded were unstoppable though.
Question mark over the two keepers, one is huge potential that needs work to be an all round top keeper in a physical league, the other seems a confident man but he’s no more than a solid no 2, united have other things to worry about though.
Costas – consistency of keeper is needed for the benefit of the back four, picking anders at the moment is understandable but against the very best, de gea usually shines and I hope he’s trusted again to nail down that position. The goals he conceded were unstoppable though.
Question mark over the two keepers, one is huge potential that needs work to be an all round top keeper in a physical league, the other seems a confident man but he’s no more than a solid no 2, united have other things to worry about though….
Bonkers from fergie – and there’s been far too many times I have said that in the last year
Cleverley can play left midfield, buttner can play there, kagawa can play there but he chose giggs. We were hopelessly exposed by our lack of pace in midfield and defence.
In these games we can’t play Giggs and Scholes. I feel sorry for the defence. They had zero protection in the first half.
If we’re looking for blame on the goals. 1st on could be anyone. 2nd one has to Be central midfield 3rd 1 is Carrick. With Rio dragged out wide – Carrick shouldve tracked back. Evans came across to bale. Rafael was nowhere. In my eyes Carrick needs to start taking more responsibility, both with the ball and off it.
I feel sorry for clevs welbz n ando. All of whom must be thinking what they’ve done wrong.
It was encouraging to see how well Rooney n RVP played in the same side. Beautifully dove tailed with kagawa
Fergie should have started Kagawa on the left and Nani on the right. Kagawa actually plays as a left winger for Japan since Keisuke Honda is their playmaker and he plays just as well there!
Giggs should be used as sub rather than as a starter. Having a midfield of Carrick, Scholes, and Cleverley should have been enough to see off Spurs. But hey these kind of results happen.
Too much reading I had to do there, couldn’t do fuck all. Haha our numero uno is david de gea, well said there @anonymous
@utd_fc
If only……..
That was amazing buddy, if only rooney did manage to hit the frame…
Our priority being the CL league this year, I kinda of understood why fergie picked two [help me describe their ability] instead of tom
Man Utd’s Lindegaard: Rotating keepers is way of future – http://Tribalfootball.com http://bit.ly/UZX5pZ .
Bollox
We need david in goal ffs
@Samuel
Exactly. Any goalkeeper can get you out of jail only for so long. And we’ve been tempting fate with our defending too much this past year. Lindegaard was lucky in a way to play in relatively easy Old Trafford games. Yesterday he found out what De Gea went through at Old Trafford against Bilbao, Blackburn and others.
If he wants to experiment he should try it against the weaker teams. Not the stronger ones.
Well, well, well.
First and foremost, watching that annoying, conceited, overhyped loser AVB celebrate and brag was more sickening than the defeat. Really viscerally nauseating.
Secondly, and most importantly, that bunch of overpaid, underachieving egos that call themselves Man Utd seem to miss (in lack of a better term) the beginning of games. Who’s responsible? I don’t know, but judging by the repetitive character of the problem, it seems to me our manager hasn’t got the capacity to bring it under control.
Our beloved 29 year-old Dutch striker who “gives us a wealth of options” in the attacking department missed a sitter chickening out instead, displaying a decade of Arsenal menatlity. He will bode well with the team injecting our youngsters with that much needed dose of potency and self belief.
Bottom line is, we’ll be struggling for a top 4 position this year. City and Chelsea are miles ahead of us and I dare not think how we’ll cope with our local rivals after last season’s embarrassing “let’s make a statement” adventure.
We’re a fucking joke. Spurs beat us at OT. Sign of things to come, I guess.
Samuel
How many times have we questioned the great mans tactics over the last year? Probably more than ever before, a lack of guts cost us the league last year and a 5 man midfield of that composition at home has equally done us again. I dont expect the great man to never make mistakes but the alarming rate of them lately is worrying, add to that the lack of a credible tactical no 2 and the bizarre obsession with strikers and I think people are right to ask questions . Querying our manager does not make us unfairhful
If he wants to experiment he should try it against the weaker teams. Not the stronger ones.
@bounce Never looked down on weaker team. United have lost to those team before and those teams are more than capable of exploiting our weakness in midfield.
I still recall last years Tiki Taka gameplay from the youngsters. It proves how much you can get from playing youngsters. It is time for SAF to deploy the young weapons like the time when Giggs, Scholes, Nicky and Beckham are rising stars in the 90′s. They were given their chances, why not he gives United other youngster the chance?
It has become plain for all who have there own mind and not cultish adoration that SAF has not been good enough for maybe 4 years at least.
Its not HIS club – The club is ours.
He has a superiority complex and has not won a BIG game, a game that REALLY mattered in a long long time.
He has stubbornly played players who are not good enough and who frankly, were only ever average on their best day – Get well Darren Fletcher but you are way way short of what we need.
I could list 20+ players that HE bought who have singularly failed. For every Ronaldo there has been a Dozen Obertans and Djemba Djembas.
He has allowed the club`s squad to become weaker and weaker and whatever they are doing at Carrington we seem to have a treatment room and casualty list that wouldnt look out of place in Helmand province.
An old man who has become complacent and unable to criticize himself.
I will be astonished if we win anything this year.
……and whilst Im at it, how come we have so few ball boys and footballs when we are chasing a game ? Against Galatasary we actually had to send and old man up the tunnel to get a replacement football !!!
Embarrassing and amateurish.
What s our first 11? This squad rotation is not helping us one bit! We need some consistency, at the very least we need a No.1 be it DDG or Linde, thats where the team starts!
Samuel
How many times have we questioned the great mans tactics over the last year? Probably more than ever before, a lack of guts cost us the league last year and a 5 man midfield of that composition at home has equally done us again. I dont expect the great man to never make mistakes but the alarming rate of them lately is worrying, add to that the lack of a credible tactical no 2 and the bizarre obsession with strikers and I think people are right to ask questions
fuming. I can understand why our defence looks rusty, to be mild. Whatever constellations Fergie and the rest of the team have been practicing over the summer are flushed at the moment. However verthongens goal is simply to fuc**** bad. That guy runs as if has a ferry tied to him on his back, and his touches on the ball?! He runs with it as if he’s playing on a beach, with the ball dancing left, right forward back, yet he manages to shake off first Nani, then rafa comes to the aid but decides to do absolutely nothing about him before Rios heroic attempt is too little too late. That goal was horrible, absolutely horrible to watch. Bale I can understand, hes got speed, ball glued to his feet – a difficult guy. But verthongens goal was a nightmare.
I don’t know what the f*** Fergie is doing before kick-off, but he sure as hell ain’t giving our players a build-up talk. As usual at the moment, we don’t start playing football until we’re either trailing by 1 or 2 goals, or until halfway through the second half. There’s absolutely no pace in our game and we keep playing sideways instead of attacking our opponent.
proper pissed about this one
@SHINJI THE NINJA
A bit harsh! I will wait till the end of the season(which is usually our strongest) to make a judgement like that. As for the ball boys against Gala, it was embarrassing. We need a consistent commander in goals, in defence and in midfield, we are lacking a presence at the moment someone like Keano who will scare the shit out of any opposing team.
fergie cost us the league,he’ll do that still
The age of rag dominance . Message from a work colleague . Hurts but it feels like that after such a defeat. That will pads though. One if the problems for me is that teams are smelling blood at OT now rather than their own fear.
First half yesterday was atrocious . Though one must give credit spurs for their level of belief. That’s what we need .
Too much Moaning on, you all ever comment on here
Now fucking criticising the great man, who told you, yeah who told ya he owned the club? Have you all counted the list of our injured players? No!
The fact that we have a game in mid week might have a say on that line-up.
He lost it, fucking bollocks, I expect you all to spoof once we start winning
Is that only your can offer to this great club?
The boss reshuffle the squad if he sees a need to, for the benefit of our club, he’ll never play ones fantasies
A gamble which did no pan out well lesson learnt we move on.
What odds on Fergie re-signing the Dad’s Army crew for next season too? Rio, Giggsy + Scholesy
Fergie used to be greta at offloading players before they are over the hill. fair play the Ginger Prince still has it. But the other two? doubt it. why don’t the be like the Neviller and bow out gracefully?
Fergie cost us the league ?. I’m laughing at that one . How one can assume that awful first half performance means we won’t win the league is a somewhat hasty response. Also, it’s a touch of arrogance to assume it was ours and SAF has thrown it away. Dont allow your justifiable anger and frustration result in sweeping unjustified statements . We are all reeling from it and gutted. It will pass. Don’t be like the bitters and dippers. Give spuds a bit if credit too.
@Redbilly
That’s the thing. Yesterday’s line up’s weaknesses have become clearly evident for a while now. Spurs definitely smelled blood and knew what to do. They had their attacking players make runs down the middle. Makes you wonder why our manager hasn’t noticed this. AFter all, it happened at the Etihad 5 months ago.
@redbilly
If Fergie didnt cost us the league last year then who do we blame if not the man in charge?
We had a BIG lead and we threw it away – The Everton result last year at home was the writing on the wall.
You may not want to hear it but FERGIE COST US THE LEAGUE LAST YEAR
Who else picked the team and the tactics that were so poor at Manchester City ?
I really dont think it is too unfair to say that and is HE beyond criticism or something ?
Maybe that is the problem – too much sentimentality from the fans and not enough criticism.
Maybe Im not a “Real Fan” though like the manager seems to think of those of us who disagree with his statement that “the Glazers are great owners”
Im sorry, but I think Ferguson needs a kick up the arse at the moment far too much has been slipping like going into a game without a designated penalty taker and teams getting sent out not fired up.
We need to be very careful here, for all that sir Alex has done to make this club the day that stops us from criticising is the day we are done for. Liverpool suffered from this and it took a long time for them to come to their senses, ferguson always knew when it was time for change and when players needed to move on, same thing applies to managers sometimes. Not saying he’s lost it but some of signs recently are worrying and there’s no one there to question him, mike phelan? Never gonna happen
dont give a shit wat anyone says but yesterday was completely sir alex fault because pf his terrible descision to start giggs. love the man to bits n all but i aint gonna cover over the truth and act outta blind love. when will he fuckin learn not to start giggs against a decent team? giggs lost his skill two to three years ago ffs and hes about as skilled as david fucking batty by this stage
Funny how everyone questions Rooney’s desire to wear the red shirt9for obvious reasons) and yet he was the only player who was willing to show the desire to win.At one point Scholes had to chase back 30 yards to stop Lennon,what bullshit is that?
I think Fergie should play a “high pressure” tactic.We all saw how well it worked in the second half.If we don’t have the midfielders to stop attacks then we might as well be in their half most of the time,score more than you concede.
Kagawa on the left actually works!
Nice of you to criticize Fergie for last season,which manager would get you that close to a championship with all the injuries etc?For all Fergie has given us,i’m sure you can forgive him for the few mistakes he makes.
Absolutely sickening watching andre villas boas and his team celebrate like had won the league last night fuck!
Now its times we risked on playing young kids instead of gambling on old players like giggs, if we played some promising lads like tunnicliffe, powell and lost, the defeat would be less hurting and they would learn from it and improve but instead we keep on holding them back all the time.
The season is not even half way gone but some people have called our manager head. Are u for real?
If things need changing, its not Fergie but his managerial team. I think he needs new assistant managers to give him fresh advices on tactical. Why not bringing Solksjaer to replace Rene? We should keep Fergie for his leaderships and all. But fresh tactical advice is what he needs.
can we ge the reaction already!
Sigh. Bad day out yesterday.
That said the squad is massively unbalanced.
The gaffers choices don’t make it any easier either.
I do hope we don’t Fuck up kagawa and Rvp. That happend and we(d be setting a precedent.
I wonder what these lads practice during training.
Worth pointing out that to make the best of what we’ve got,Fergie gonna have to.ditch a lot of what we have come to know.
Doesn’t look likely and if I’m correct its the point costas wad trying to make when he said the gaffer hasn’t “learnt” from previous mistakes or something to that effect.
We have to have Carrick,ando clevs,kagawa Rooney and Rvp on the pitch together most times.
Personally I’d have nani and tony v on the bench. Suss out the opponent with crafty players and then inject power and pace if needed to turn the game round.
Massively disappointed with the technical staff and scholes and giggs. Those guys should be in Fergie’d est about the younger players not battling it out for a start. We had the same problem with seba.
SAF just wouldn’t let him be “the man” in the middle of the park. No team could function effectively with keano and Veron. We couldn’t and ended up the worst for it unroll Carrick came round and scholes redeployed, throw in Fletchers emergence in there ad well.
I’d ask fans not to get it twisted. Carrick is a very important part of any thing we do and MUST be involved in some capacity. Playing him with scholes and giggs and then dropping/resting him to be replaced by Ando and Tom doesn’t make much sense or better use of the squad . Me thinks wingers/wing play would do us a world of good.
Fresh impetus us needed quick or like I said we could end up frustrating kagawa and Robin. The latter has lost a bit of swagger and it shows. Maybe this will teach fans and hopefully management that its not all about the result. Performance plays a crucial part and we ain’t performing.
And FFS settle on a keeper. Draft wotton and Keane in while Evans sorts himself out because he’s definitely a 100%
*not at 100%
“AVB among them. What a shame. Many credible Spurs managers failed to win at Old Trafford and we allowed this goof to do it.”
Eh? He’s won more in his short career than Harry Redknapp will EVER win in his long career.
On the positive side, I saw a stat that said the previous 2 times we’ve lost 2 of our first 6 matches of the season we have won the league – 2003 was the latest. Chin up. There was enough yesterday to suggest we can have a good season despite the obvious bad spots.
I count myself in the De Gea camp.
Rio and Linde poor on Bales goal. That said, I did like the fact Rio was trying to push the defense up.
Third goal was also down to Lindegaard as he should have held it or blocked it away, not t-ing it up for Dempsey.
Harsh maybe. But I think DeGea deflects the second and holds the third.
Also feel that DeGea’s distribution is far superior.
Fergie was right, If we had another 15 minutes sure, we might have knicked it
Cant wait till we start kicking some ass this year!! ‘Cause we will kick ass once we get our team and formation sorted out, get the feeling SAF is experimenting at the mo!!
BELIEVE!!
CIAO!
Apologies to those who may have already posted in a similar vein but first opportunity to post as after the game we went to the Royal Exchange to see Black Roses which was an incredibly moving account of the brutal murder of Sophie Lancaster by a group of thugs in Bacup in 2007 just because she was a goth. Puts a football defeat into perspective!
In the first half last night we were pathetic – completely overrun in midfield by Dembele, Sandro and Bale. As much as I respect Giggsy he must never start a PL game again, he should be on the bench and come on as needed to utilise his vast experience.
As we used to do to other teams (and to some extent we did in the 2nd half) we were destroyed by pace which was evident throughout the Spurs team. Our defenders, in particular Rio, could not contend with the pace of their strikers and midfielders but to let a bloody full back run 40 yards and not be tackled until he shoots on goal is unacceptable. Why did our defence back off so much and not get in a tackle until the Spurs players were in our box. Being cynical better to foul them and take a yellow card than to let them score.
Now my obsession since the start of the season, or at least since the Fulham game, as last night exposed the paucity and stupidity of our transfer policy during the summer. Last night Dembele bossed the midfield – bursting forward on 20/30 yard runs, holding the ball up well, getting into dangerous positions all over the pitch and creating the 2nd goal for Bale. We have no one in our midfield who can play this way certainly not Scholes (who had a good game last night) and Carrick who looks increasingly pedestrian. Yes I hear you say we have Anderson and Cleverley but what I am talking about hear is PHYSICAL PRESENCE in the midfield.
Why oh fucking why when we knew Berba was going to Fulham did we not get Dembele as part of the deal? This was a failure on the part of our management team which I fear will come back to haunt throughout the season.
@SHINJI THE NINJA
I agree with your post @11:00.
Last season, once we went 8 points clear, we thought title was in the bag. We became far too complacent and for this Fergie has to take the responsibility. He should have made sure we do not loose at Wigan. Against Everton we had a two goal lead with 6-7 minutes to go and we were being overrun in midfield, he should have done something about it. Then, the personnel and tactics against shitty were atrocious. I don’t remember seeing United playing for a draw?
One must admit that when Carlos Queiroz was with us we were tactically much more astute.
This season Fergie is relying too much on Scholes and Giggs. I thought he wanted them as impact subs, like in the match at Southampton. I would rather start matches with younger lads like Tom and Ando, or someone else. Sometimes I wonder if some of our players used to winning so much have now become totally indifferent? This season, we started all our matches too slowly. We are conceding far too easily. Our midfield is far too slow. At times we are overcomplicating things. Fergie said that intent to play with pace was the reason Berba was allowed to leave, but unless we fall behind we play like pedestrians. Yes, our defence is depleted, but we are not making it easier with our casualness and sloppiness.
Second half yesterday showed that United are at best when they play high tempo game. We should do so from the first minute, score a few and then control the game.
I hope we do not let our season go downhill from here. For me next match at Newcastle is a must win one. We do not want to fall too much behind rent boys!!!!
When people say Ferguson himself cost “us” the Title last season
does that mean “he” won it all those times himself as well?
We have been playing very crappy footie in the first halves of all our matches and tottenham took good advantage of it
Yeah people should take it easy with the sack SAF.
He has made a mistake or two yes, this season and all over the other seasons and it bothers me, but don’t hide behind your computer and say sack him.
He will retire, and when he retires you will sing his name and when we don’t do well, you will cry for him, and say SAF wouldn’t do this and play that. SO take it easy.
http://www.manutd.com/~/media/201213%20Matches/Tottenham%20290912/spurs19.ashx?20120929T2046260590&mw=500
http://www.manutd.com/~/media/201213%20Matches/Tottenham%20290912/spurs21.ashx?20120929T2046413876&mw=500
stonecold PENALTY. don’t know why we didn’t get that.
I also don’t agree with the injury-time accusition, but in all fairness there were alot of happening and playing time from tottenham players.
But tthat’s not why we lost.
@Red Robin
Rene Meulensteen is widely regarded as one of the best technical coaches in the world, replacing him with Ole (who has very little experience) would be mental. There is nothing to suggest Ole is a master tactician. We’re trying to eliminate sentiment here, not increase it.
It’s very easy to be reactionary to a defeat, but we have not looked good this season (or most of last) and it just feels that major shortcuts are being taken here with team selections and tactics. This is all conjecture, but it feels as if managers like Di Matteo or Villas Boas really study their opponents before they play and set their teams up accordingly. This season we’re playing 4-2-3-1 regardless of the opponent, shoehorning players into their positions and the only real decision that needs made is whether to play Scholes or Giggs alongside Carrick.
People get caught in the glamour of the camera and wont leave the stage.our club has three such people.
@ahjs
Wasn’t talking about Harry in particular. There’s also Juande Ramos, Martin Jol, Glen Hoddle, George Graham and Terry Venables. Surely AVB isn’t the most credible out of that bunch?
@United Till I Die
Absolutely!!!!!
@ Hans
You are absolutely 100% spot on.
We need to face facts – The buck stops at Fergusons door.
Rooney is all talk.
Giggs is past it but Ando and Cleverley, having scored goals are dropped ?
Its no way to carry on.
The wins we have had so far have been against the run of play and yesterday luck ran out.
I love the club more than I love Alex Ferguson – His substitution with 1 minute left smacked of senility.
There is no explanation at all for putting on a sub with only one minute left in extra time unless you are winning team and hope to break up momentum and frustrate.
Why on earth did we take off Kagawa – why ? why? why ? He wasnt tired and he was having a GREAT game.
These are all failings of management.
Shinja The Ninja.
That remark is a confliction,senile he would have forgot to make the sub
Costas, that’s fair enough (although AVB has won more than Hoddle & Jol) – I forget it’s mainly the media & ex-pro pundits that rate Redknapp so highly despite his only major honour being that expensive cup win for Portsmouth. I don’t want to talk about AVB much (and I’m guessing you don’t, either) but he might make a very good manager.
@Shinji you’re trying to be way too smart here
If you could make a balanced assessment of our performance lastnight maybe it would make any sense
Why do you choose to attack rooney is beyond, he was the one who almost brought us back into level terms hitting the frame and making an assist
Its understandable at times, but you sound like enjoying criticising
*Beyond me* fast writing
Here are the results
I cant understand the continual sacrifice of ddg.
No, lindegaard Didnt really do anything wrong, but since his return at the start of the year, ddg has been pretty sensational, yes, a few errors, but many many more top drawer saves.
I don’t know what else there is left to say about the midfield. Every single game its getting over-ran & we’ve been getting away with it a lot.
Its a double-edged sword at the minute, because fergies obviously trying to play 5 across there to increase possession, but we r not doing enough with it, & fletch apart-if he can return to his previous level- we have no natural ball winner in there.
Clearly the players won’t simply adjust to a totally different style overnight, but this experimenting is costing us big time, rvp is looking very isolated a lot of the time, & although its predictable, we only ever seem to look dangerous when we play to or strengths, 2 up front & down the wings.
Giggs, great servant that he’s been, simply shouldn’t be starting a match,& age sadly does become an issue when we have other aging legs in the same line-up.
Scholes continues to prove himself, but if we are open & honest, can no longer compete against the pace & sheer strength of the top top players like Yaya.
Its far from a criticism of the man, he carried us many times in the run-in, but against the top teams &players its unfair to expect miracles of a msn his age.
Giggs, going back to my original point though, legend yes, about the only decent penalty taker we’ve got, but after his winner at Norwich last year, Im struggling to remember a meaningful contribution.
Again, its not a direct criticism, our continued neglect of midfield has put him in that position.
If we are saving players for midweek, well its a worry when we have to save our best for what is yet again, a pretty weak group.
Certainly Fergie will have to give it more resources than last year, cos you can just imagine the Glazers words when we fell out of that cash-cow last year, but hand on heart, does anyone see us winning it this year?
I stated pre-season I thought we would have a dreadful time for all the obvious reasons and the worst is yet to come imo.
Fergie cost us nothing and he can go and proceed for another couple as far as I’m concerned.
Injuries cost us the title last year. And they may do again this year.
Team is aging and not replacing the positions we are most problematic at (CB, Scholes). Again, don’t think we are as bad off as some think. But the injuries and Fletcher have been had diaboloical effects on us for past 3 years.
Gopher Brown
September 30, 2012 – 12:32
@Red Robin
Rene Meulensteen is widely regarded as one of the best technical coaches in the world, replacing him with Ole (who has very little experience) would be mental. There is nothing to suggest Ole is a master tactician. We’re trying to eliminate sentiment here, not increase it.
_____________________
Mate, I am going to go MENTAL if Ole is appointed as one of Fergie managerial team. Don’t undermine Ole tactical knowledge. He was doing good job while handling United reserves, and with Molde now.
Well, Rene and Phelan have been in managerial for about 6 years now. And they still haven’t got the answer to the missing piece of the puzzle yet, the midfield general. Since Keano left us 7 years ago.
Red Keighley @ 12:19: “Why oh fucking why when we knew Berba was going to Fulham did we not get Dembele as part of the deal?”
You’re joking, right ?
The answer is not simply a matter of getting new players so much as using the ones who are already at UTD. From reading all of these messages – and the ones on the other thread as well as in “United Rant” – there seems to be a consensus that SAF’s team selection was just plain wrong. He admitted as much when he took of SirRyanGiggs and brought on TheWayneBoy BUT he didn’t go far enough since that Scholes/Carrick combination in midfield was easily by-passed, as happened for the second and third goals.
There’s been a lot of messages about how much Scholes dominated the last phase of the match – and I don’t disagree BUT did UTD score an equalizer ? From my vantage-point, Scholes “dominated” because Spurs let him have the ball forty yards from goal and “knew” that he’d send it out to the wing (usually the right wing = Nani or Rafael). From my vantage-point, letting Scholes have the ball forty yards from goal meant that Michael Carrick was essentially useless in that he was by-passed while being in a kind of no man’s land when the action turned, Spurs counter-attacked – as happened when Bale scored their second goal AND when Dempsey scored their third goal.
Paul Scholes has been TheGingerNinja but it’s time to recognize that his skill-set is rapidly narrowing – eighteen months ago he “retired” when he himself acknowledged that he just can’t run much or very fast any more. So he’s become a one-dimensional player, something of an immobile presence quarterbacking the attack. As long as he has time/space to pass the ball he’s doing fine but when he’s pressed or, more especially, when the opposition counter-attacks then he’s a liability. As I wrote earlier, if he’s surrounded with more active, energetic and dynamic players then that’s not a problem – similarly, if UTD are playing on a “downhill pitch” (as was the case in the closing stages of yesterday’s match) then the problem is disguised. AND when he’s partnered with Michael Carrick then the problem is multiplied since Carrick is not a particularly active or energetic or dynamic or fast player.
BUT I think that the problem lies deeper, SAF has caught himself on the classic “cleft stick” – not willing to abandon a 4-4-2/4-2-4 formation with wingers and not willing to commit to some version of three-in-midfield. Buying another striker and a playmaker is rather like the Emperor buying new shoes when he’s not wearing any clothes.
@ahjs
Fair enough. For what it’s worth, I also rate him as a manager. I was impressed with his success at Porto given his age. It’s just that his (short) track record in England hasn’t been the best and I found it kind of ironic that he would be the one to end Spurs’ run without a win at OT. Plus, he gets on my nerves quite often with his antics.
So coaches make the decisions on who to sign now? Why are they getting the blame? And as for SHINJI, why not apply to be a professional manager if you know more? Deary me.
So coaches make the decisions on who to sign now? Why are they getting the blame? And as for SHINJI, why not apply to be a professional manager if you know more? Deary me…..
No Denton Davey I am not joking! In fact in your very good analysis of the limitations that now exist in Scholesy game and your critique of Carrick “Carrick is not a particularly active or energetic or dynamic or fast player.” you have made a superb case in support of my argument that we have missed the opportunity to sign a player for £10m who would have done a great job for us in midfield in the PL and CL!
You say:
“The answer is not simply a matter of getting new players so much as using the ones who are already at UTD.”
Exactly!! We have no one at UTD who has the physical presence of Dembele or Yaya Toure and until we do our midfield will continue to be seen as light weight.
Thanks Denton Davy for such a persuasive argument to support my case!!
Time to move Wazza to CAM and or MDM who attacks. No Spine in MF since no Fletcher. RvP, Welbeck, Lil Pea and Kagawa have enough goals in them. Goal differential not goals make the difference. Love Carrick and what he brings, he needs speed and bite around him to shine.
4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 diamond 4-2-3-1 wtf ever. Width with fb’s and flooding one side then bam 35 yard pass to the other side attack. Defend with one in front of back 4. The rest attack.
Our fragile defence and lack of adequate presence in midfield proved to be the weak link yet again, Scholes did a good job but I will repeat it again, its high time SAF starts to either trust the young lads like Powell or TC or Ando, or get some world class player in there, same for Giggs, he’s reached a time where he can play parts only, not start a game and lead the attacks on the wing. 2nd defeat already, and you may call me pessimist, but I can barely see Utd win something this season with the current passage of play.
Vistas / ninja- thanks for the reply . Of course he’s ultimately responsible for decisions . Yesterday for example , totally agree, it’s his ultimate decision regarding selection and the starting line up was wrong. He like anyone is nit above reproach . But, taking his decisions re city, newcastle , Wigan last season and some this term. Football has so many variables that personally , I do not see how his decisions can account for all of them . And I do not consider anyone who chooses to criticise him any more or less a fan than another.
He does need to review his selection of advisors yes, The title is never anyone’s to throw away – in my opinion- .
Honest to fuck listening to some fans say fergie is finished i mean PLEASE. ok yes have a go like i do regulary but fuck me pink to remove his would be worse than a natural fucking disaster. so for all those who mentioned such qoutes away and take ur face for a shite
Zibbie
I here you about wazza mate but we need him up top..im against u on carrick though he is simply not good enough to command a game no fucking way. anderson commands more games than him and sum slat ando after a bad game and he gets dropped therefor how will we no his true ability yet every single week carrick is in the team regardless…in my opinion its a joke..what now with fletch back i bet fergie drops scholes….as much as it pains me i hope carrick gets a big injury(but 1 that doesnt hurt him.lol)as clev and ando were immense in the middle together, pure pace they played with..theres more pace in a turtle doin a fuckin moon walk than there is with carrick.
The time for the midfield to get sorted is already among us…we have lost 2 games already this season and apart from nfield were we sum how 1 we aint been anywhere.. i fear for us this year i really do, i just wish the manager would take more responsibly instead of blaming other ppl or using extra time as an excuse which in fairness is embarrassing….can u honestly say his tactics have been even average this year? taking of ando against fulham when he had an outstanding game, playing a 4 5 1 at southampton when 442 is our best and that was proved when he finally got scholes on and went 442. also taking players of who are playing well ie kagawa yesterday i mean WTF. our attack was dead when he came off…sounds like a rant mate and actually it is but its the truth and every1 knows it. and lastly resting players for the cluj game…please
it was the same against liverpool, that midfield of carrick and scholes offer no protection to the back four at all. it;s so weak, the better teams just get a free run at out defence while they stand there and watch.
no pace at all, the midfield of fletcher,cleverley and anderson should be playing against the top sides and while we continue with scholes and carrick we’ve got no hope of winning, same last season, same the season before that and the season before that. I dont get why it keeps happening and the obvious weekness isnt rectified, as great as the manager is, he seems to have a soft spot for carrck and scholes while they are competent against good teams.
~ incopetent
also do u here the shite AVB is talking after the win..The fucker is about as interesting as eating a bag of dirty needles…infact i would much prefer the needles…hes an idiot, top 4 HE SAYS….pull the other 1 ya gypsey poofter. Infact if we played the 1st half at even 50% of what we did the 2nd half the fucker probobly would have got the sack
Anderson is close to their physical presence and mobility, so he should be given an opportunity and it doesn’t take a genius to work out you can’t have two immobile central midfielders.
you need one superb passing midfielder and then another energetic dynamic schemer along side them. I still don’t know why united have not tried carrick and anderson. One sitting deep and dictating play, the other ratting and closing down the opposition. That’s the right blend or we go for a fletcher (hopefully he improves his sharpness) alongside anderson or cleverley. There are some games that carrick’s ability don’t come to the fore, I’m a fan of his style but some high tempo game don’t always suit him. We simply haven’t found the right central blend. We should also look at tunnicliffe In terms of power, energy and closing down the opposition.
Anderson is close to their physical presence and mobility, so he should be given an opportunity and it doesn’t take a genius to work out you can’t have two immobile central midfielders.
you need one superb passing midfielder and then another energetic dynamic schemer along side them. I still don’t know why united have not tried carrick and anderson. One sitting deep and dictating play, the other ratting and closing down the opposition. That’s the right blend or we go for a fletcher (hopefully he improves his sharpness) alongside anderson or cleverley. There are some games that carrick’s ability don’t come to the fore, I’m a fan of his style but some high tempo game don’t always suit him. We simply haven’t found the right central blend. We should also look at tunnicliffe In terms of power, energy and closing down the opposition…
I really feel sad seeing how SAF puts the blame. United had not been performing well until second half with the introduction of Rooney and Ryan Giggs leaving the pitch. It showed how much Wazza means to United and how old age has been affecting United. Watching SAF blaming that there is no extra time is like watching Liverpool blaming everything. It is high time that he stand up as a man and admit his mistakes or looking at what he has failed to do. I do believe that if he start talking less thrash and start focusing in finding out what is really wrong, United might be able to regain dominance. We still have a chance to turn everything, I pray that don’t let the chance go to waste again. Youth is probably our solution right now.
Kungfoocantona- that’s the thing. 50 %. If the pressure generated second half and it would have been done and dusted . That kind if pressure used to be a given. Can’t expect teams to visit OT. With the sane fear factor if it dies not return. Still win the league mind .
Many of us are familiar with the following quote: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Scholes/Giggs partnership anyone?
Panda I agree, a back handed way to say Carrick in a 5 man mid field, or nothing.
Sam well said. A Powell, Tunni delay with no Fletch? Makes me think with Jones return a CMF chance as well. And a winter transfer addition in the CDM guy.?!
In 2 weeks Rooney converts, 1 or 2 of those close misses. Spurs done and dusted !! And plays 90 min’s!!
All the blame is on sir alex apparently..
I think we should put some blame on everyone including our attackers, everyone is expected to be defending when needed
The system we now implementing means everyone must be mobile defending in numbers to win back the ball and start an attack
But sadly we currently do not have experienced players in midfield who can do most of that, best we start giving our young lads some game time and see what options they can offer cause currently we do not have one trusted team that can deliver results week in and week out.
Rooney has almost never play the same place for long, at first a lw, 2nd striker. Then a 10, 2nd striker type, then a 9 after CR left. Then a 2nd striker 10 in space. Now what? CAM a diamond tip, a middle 3 of a 4-3-3- go find the game type in a middle top 3? If’s suck, but if Fletch never got ill, I always saw them rule MF from like Wazza 27,28 to 34. He and Fletch ruling MF for like 10 trophies!!
Manchester Uniteds slide is well in progress and there is nothing to be done about it.We have neglected our engine room for some time now and don’t have the personnel in the club to halt it.We are an old team getting older but sone refuse to recognise that,Christ teams don’t even need finesse now they can just come right through us and we are helpless to prevent it,pity that but it’s all happened before and is easy to spot coming.Someone is complacent imo.
@parry absolutely
Yeah we are on a fucking slide
But after we bought kags thought we were heading on a right direction, in change of system and stuff put aside the old 4-4-2 system but our players still seems to not know how we should be attacking with this diamond system, still opt for side ways passes and wing play
This stats still aches me 24 attempted crosses and only actually managed 4 out of all the 24
And most of those crosses aren’t effective enough most barely find our players
Proverb
The blame is on the manager because he picks the team and at the minute he is picking the wrong team and formation. Its a concern but somthing that he will no doubt fix as usual, like i say many times why does michael carrick constantly get the nod week in week out, he is the first on the sheet and i dont no why. anderson brings much more to the table and is an exsplosive player much like dembele if he could get the games. the constant tinkering with formations and players is no good for any1 and therefor no consistancy will be had..i understand we have had injuries but thats not an excuse for the amount of tinkering…why the hell didnt rooney start and why did kagawa have to come off..when was the last time carrick was left out of the team or even brought of for that matter…he isnt better than scholes for a start although in my opinion age is irelavant with him as he is still outstanding. fletch(obviously has just returned, clev and ando bring more in every way than carrick yet he is picked….its a joke and like i say needs to be sorted but its down to the manager to make the decisions so he therefor has to take the blame simple as….but i agree with referance to ur point that sum are always blaming fergie wenever we lose and its wrong. the problem is the system needs to be sorted and the right players played and i believe we have the players there to do that i dont think we need to strenghen at least not until the summer maybe
This players the boss bet on should be repaying him, I mean, everytime we play a big game he opt for this experienced players but it has been working for that long, now teams know weaknesses and they are going to exploit that..
Its time we injected some fears onto our squad
Teams don’t fear us anymore
And why is it that we don’t seem to get out of second gear unless we are losing, we only start showing intent of wanting to score once we go a goal or two down is that some playing strategy of sort
Parry – let’s be fair, you love the good old doom and gloom campaign, what slide are you talking about now?
i think the best thing to do here is be positive at the end of the day city re level on points so we shouldnt worry…chelseas only 2 hard games were arsenal and athletic…athletico hammered them and arsenals defending was shite…we have got to sort the team out and now…time to man up mister ferguson and choose the right team….ps GET DE GEA BACK IN GOAL(and before you say i dont think lindi has done much if any wrong but de gea is better plus rotating goalkeepers is utter fuckin madness..cant think of 1 team in world football who does that?
@Samuel – he’s on about the slide into oblivion mate, where else?
yeah so we lost a match. first half we were piss poor. second half much better. still leaking too many goals so far this season. defence is crap. rio too slow imo. goalkeepers not great either imo.
it seem like we are lucky to be so high up in the league the way we’ve been playing.
I do have a feeling we will improve.
It hurts that bit more when United lose because everyone else including the press has a field day over it. They love to see us lose and there is always some stupid ‘record’ or jinx to overcome such as the stupid Spurs one – because lets face it ..we are United and we hardly EVER lose. we are the dominant team over last 20 years.
@Parryheid, I don’t think its complacency mate. That team AND bench was good enough to beat Spurs before a big CL tie but Fergie didn’t bet on us being 2-0 down. He got it right selecting the same players against Liverpool and Galatasary but we were unlucky on Saturday to hit the bar twice and have two penalties denied. I don’t see a crisis of any sort.
United till I die – I lock myself away from the gloating bitter media and then come on a united based blog only to read the same doom and gloom about united that the likes of talksports love to express. We’re a team that isn’t complete, a work in progress and a lot more work has to be done but there are talents in these squad, we can find solutions and should try to do so rather than coming out with “united are on a slide” or the usual “dynasty is crumbling”.
I said before the game law of aves was due to catch up to the 22-0 stat and it happened,move on why does everything have to be a overreaction and a catastrophe to some
Nani’s poor form continues I know there is a lot of Nani diehards who think he’s worth all these bad games but he has to start showing something because at the moment he’s a liability,that isn’t a knock just a fact
I hope fletch and anderson play against cluj, improve their fitness and perhaps be thrown in against newcastle, we will need bite and fighters in midfield for that away game, a good solid base and compact defence against an in form demba ba and cisse, add the quality of ben arfa to that. Tiote and cabaye will put in a shift too, tough game after an away champions league game I tell you. It’s not a game for immobility or pedestrians.
Lol, read the SAF stuff on added time – hilarious…maybe (like the players) he just didn’t show for the first half, and was looking for where those 45 minutes went…really, he does sometimes hand the media and opposition fans sticks to beat us with!
Nani has been lacking confidence for a while now and has been below par but last night, i’d say he and rooney were arguably the star players for united. He seems better on the right and that’s where he plays well for portugal. If we want to play technical interchanging football in that 4-2-3-1, tricky and inventive players are needed, a confident nani is exactly that. You wonder if he’ll keep his place now.
@Samuel – Tell me about it. The only reason Chelsea are top is blind luck, and with a little more luck we’d be 1pt behind them and 3pts ahead of City now. Far too early for doom and gloom mate.We’ve got an important one on Tuesday then two tough games before Braga and Chelsea. If we absolutely crash and burn over the next 7 games fair enough I’ll understand the stick but until then we’re in still contention and finding form.
Mahesh – let it go, it’s another day. Move on or the stick will keep beating you..
Took the goal ok but overall still found Nani to be frustrating,not just going forward but defensively he’s none existent,Spurs first goal made no attempt to make a tackle or track back just let the player blow right by him,he’s not showing any passion or fight whatsoever
Btw, as much as I hate seeing Giggsy start in midfield, I can’t help but think that it couldn’t possibly be just his absence which sparked us to life in the second half. The fact is for the best part of the last year and more, I have rarely seen us show up for first halves, regardless of what 11 you put out there. And it baffles me, how we have become a team of two halves. We seem to have built up this complacency that we just need to show up for the second half, and we’ll win it, so why tire ourselves out in the first 45. Its absolutely shocking, and so consistent a pattern that I have often thought about starting to watch United games only in the second half. The first half will be a waste of time anyways…
United Till I Die
You don’t think its complacency to totally neglect to bring in players for our midfield and allow it to get in the condition it presently is.No midfield No chance and that is a fact,jeez we are even letting it spread into our back line with Evra we are in thrall to so many aged players it’s untrue.We are carrying a lot of deadwood that be gone and their wages put to better use on the newcomers we refuse to get.I mean we don’t even go and get a player for no money bar wages I have watched and complained about our refusal to replace/reinforce for the past two years and listened to the excuses from Hargreaves coming back in September during the US tour onwards the Poghba/Morrison debacle.This season has been a coming and that’s not doom and gloom that’s Reality and it’s going to get a lot worse imo and there is no chance of me being proved wrong.
United till I die – exactly. We still haven’t found our main starting line ups, chopping and changing isn’t helping add the fact the wrong midfield combo keeps being played and a threadbare defence. United look disjointed at the moment, need to find our identity but like you say, improvements can be made and has to be made in the next couple of tough games. We’re still in the early stages of the season, we can’t afford to peak now and wither away during the crunch time of the season. Thankfully, we have quality and you only hope the players start expressing that as soon as possible plus united need fortune in terms of injuries.
What, you’re blaming nani for the defeat or any defensive exposure? He’s an attacker, it’s baffling to expect defensive consistency, he’s not james milner but i’ve seen put in the shift to cover the fullback. I don’t know what your definition of “passion” is, run around like a cunt, fly Into tackles and get a red, yeah that’s passion.
If united are below par then it’s the entire team in my opinion. I’ll agree with anyone that says he’s been poor and has to recover form for a bit but quality is there.
samuel_united We stand.
We have quality? Yes we do all over the pitch apart from our engine room and that is a waste of our quality.They wont get the opportunity to express it thanks to that fucking midfield
Parry – there’s also quality in midfield, maybe not as much as other areas, united just have to find the right blend. A passer and a dynamic player that can motor up and down. fletch, anderson and cleverley showed it in the league cup, the 3 of them are mobile and more energetic than carrick and scholes, useful in high tempo against top sides, they moved the ball quicker too and closed opposition down, if we can get anderson avoiding any injury, fletch sharper snd clev, that would improve us there. We also have the likes of tunni, powell and others coming through. How does expressing doom and gloom help? We make of what we can with what we have and there are some quality in the central areas.
anyone ever tbought of trying valencia in central midfield, he’s played there for ecuador before. He has power, athleticsm, passing is decent and is not a bad tackler, just an option?
Sometimes Samuel united WE stand, I don’t have to comment anything here, I just watch your comments and I tend to agree.
Good job my friend!
some blaming Nani for us loosing, yeah right, the guy created all those chances and scored, yes that is a shitty play
He has been this season a jekyll and hyde. Before i say anything, I have to say I think Valencia is great and a great player for us, last years best plaeyr, but this year… naaaah, been at the same level as Nani, he just covers better on the defensive.
Why instead of bashing our wingers, we don’t say thank God we have two great wingers, and be happy with that
samuel_united We stand.
Fletcher we know is tailor made for it not back till the new year,damage already done.And you have hit on my pet hate with the waste of rations Anderson,Cleverly iffy,Powell come on the one man you have mentioned is being used as this seasons excuse for not buying or getting anybody.Can’t fathom why any one would want to mess up our right wing on an experiment,I am an opinionated joker I am not foolish enough to expect agreement nor to care I happen to dislike what is not happening and voice it my way but others are equally unhappy but more diplomatic than I.
And to lighten the gloom,heres something I heard.
Guy comes home with a Robot.
What’s that for he’s asked’
Its a truth Robot,watch this Johny son have you done your homework today.Yes da he said,the Robot slapped his face.
Alright I was watching a video.
Oh what was it called.
Toy Story.Slap.
Okay it was a porn video.
What when I was your age I didn’t even know what Porn was.Robot slapped him.
Hah said his wife he’s your son rght enough.The Robot slapped her.
Nice one Parryheid. This blog is getting depressing!!
We’re gonna win the league this year, just you wait.
We never start out a season well. Usually, with a few exceptions we finish strong.
My feeling is this, SAF & co. are experimenting a bit because they have yet to find out what formation to play in which games and competitions and against who and with which players.
PATIENCE PEOPLE!!
Will all the united fans on here blaming Fergie for everything wrong at the moment be man anough to come on here and say sorry for ever doubting Fergie. We have no divine right to win the league but it seems as though some fans have grown up knowing nothing else but Fergie in charge. If anyone thinks united are finished or that Fergie has lost it then in my humble opinion they know shit. The fans on this blog that remember united before Fergie will hopefully know where I’m coming from. Patience is the key at the moment. FFS the ABU media have been saying that Fergie has lost the plot since the early nineties. Lets not start the doom and gloom just yet please. There is a tendency amongst a section of our supporters that think that by getting rid of Fergie we will somehow turn a corner and move forward with some trendy young manager, bull shit, it’s only when Fergie goes that they will truly learn the greatness of the man. Before Fergie I would have been as happy as a pig in shit to have been where we are now. Over the years we as supporters have been spoilt on unbelievable success, please let us not use this success to criticise the very man who gave it to us.
samuel – united WE stand – I am not going to get into detail into the problems of the spine of the team, fergie has had 2 years to sort this problem out. And once again it has bitten united on the backside, but the team he played yesterday, was a grave mistake by the boss. And more OT records will be broken, with this team, unfortunetly.
why take parry’s comments serious? this is the same guy who posted on a previous thread that chelsea are miles ahead of us in terms of quality. is it their defence, midfield, or attack? what a joke!
There were undoubtedly a myriad of problems with our performance against spurs but all that aside, my fuck was that second half exciting to watch. Heart was racing and when we play at that tempo, it’s awesome to watch.
i honestly believe giggs can only be a late sub this season and not start ahead of ando, clevs, even buttner or welbeck can play on the left of a 4231. 2 positives from the game – rooney and nani. Time to get the checkbook out for ogbonna (beast in fifa lol) and vidal/khedira/tiote
Sorry, but last year i heard most of the guys saying we were in the transition period from old to new players and that’s why we didn’t win any trophy… Agreed. Then what are we doing this year..!! All oldies are playing and why are we having the youngsters in the squad is another big question. They need also some playing time to get to the level of scholes and giggs. If we don’t play them, then when are they going to play strongly for us? For me, I would have been more happier if we played them in the match and failed. Atleast we are building up their confidence and not diminishing it. Scholes and giggs are legends of United and they need to support our youngsters and not the other way round. I am sorry, but Sir Alex blew it in the last game. My heart popped out seeing the pathetic defense from Evans in the first goal. Also, where is De Gea? What is he doing in the bench? I am damn sure that he would have saved at least one of the goals in the last match. This year will be another blackout year if it continues like this and I hope sir Alex proves me wrong…
F.i.t.b – To be fair, records are there to be broken and spurs were always going to do it at some point, they’re a quality team that came to counter attack, we also partly aided them on their way to victory with the wrong midfield combo. I have no answer as to why fergie hasn’t bought any midfielders apart from the fact he feels he’s got the younger players to step into the role.
I hope fergie will realise and work out the right blend for the engine room, it’s important. No point looking to buy as the club only really buyS in the summer, so a solution within has to be found with the squad.
Red Keighley @ 15:13: “We have no one at UTD who has the physical presence of Dembele or Yaya Toure and until we do our midfield will continue to be seen as light weight.”
Sorry to be slow in responding but I try to “have a life”.
In any event, I don’t think that Dembele is “the answer” or even “an answer” – I thought he was pretty anonymous on Saturday.
Speaking to your point, there’s a great deal of hope invested in the recovery of DarrenFletcherinho – or Zibbie’s suggestion of moving TheWayneBoy to central midfield. I’m sceptical about Darren’s full recovery (“hoping for the best but expecting the worst” – as in a recurrence of the flare-up) and I don’t think that SAF will commit to TheWayneBoy in midfield unless there’s a gun to his head (or, maybe, to both their heads). So, things will have to get much much worse before some sort of alternative formation/personnel gets used.
In the meanwhile, the best hope is that SAF juggles the pack and plays some sort of 4-1-2-3 with Anderson and YoungTom as the “2″, ahead of MIchael Carrick.
As I wrote earlier – and on the other thread, too – playing Scholes/Carrick partnership is damned-near suicidal; playing that pair along with SirRyanGiggs IS suicidal.
Samuel no mate passion is at least trying,watch Spurs first goal Nani was in a defensive position and made no attempt to make a tackle or track back,not blaming Nani for the defeat but the first goal was partly his fault,he’s not a out and out attacker that stands on the half way line and part of his duties is to pick up players which he’s just not doing.Any kind of attempt by him to put pressure on the goalscorer prior to him getting the shot off would have probably stopped the first goal.Its ok defending players but it just gets stupid when its obvious no effort was made
Re substitution – I think Welbeck was bought on for height as we were getting a lot of crosses and high balls in the box then. I agree though that Shinji was looking the most likely to create something when he was taken off.
Look, one substitution changed the game so I can’t see how SAF got it that wrong. This was the worst I have seen Giggs play in a while, he was very rusty and SAF saw that and took him off. The first goal was also a lucky goal as it took a deflection, had it not, Lindegraad had it covered. That goal gave Spurs belief and rattled United.
Also it was expected that Spurs would attack down the wing through Bale and Lennon. Lennon was pretty effectively neutralised and Bale had that one great run and goal – where was he otherwise? Defoe was non-existent as a threat so the marking was not that bad. Spurs first goal was a lucky deflection, the third a lucky rebound for Spurs, 9 times out of 10 our goalie would have made a better save and the ball would not have been on a plate for Dempsey. I am not saying we could not have done better defensively, but there was a bit of luck here for Spurs and also a lack of ability by our forwards other than Scholes to hold possession. It is not just one player, Rooney that made the difference, the players stepped up second half in a way they should have first half.
Ferdinand and Evans – neither are 100% fit and it showed. Unfortunately there are no present fit back ups and the kids would get killed. Jones is back but so fat he has been the biggest liability in defence an have zero clue on positioning though he is fast and tackled well, he also has no passing range. In Vidic’s absence we really need Smalling back, he has real pace and strength, positioning, better heading ability than Rio or Evans and I think he is the only one of our younger CB’s that can be truly world class in the Rio Vidic mould.
Carrick is currently our “holding MF” and as someone pointed out too often occupies the same space as Scholes. Without a Hargreaves type holding rotweiller, we are always going to be vulnerable in the middle. City play with 2 holding MF, Chelsea with one, Arsenal with one. We don’t really have a proper Makelele holding MF with pace and bite who can also initiate attacks. But on his day and against less pace Carrick does that job quite well bit he needs pace and positioning around him. Scholes provides the positioning, Evans lacks pace and Rio did not seem 100%, hope his back is OK, we need him.
Also for all those raving about Dembele, I hardly noticed he was on the pitch, he was anonymous second half and was subbed I believe, first half we just stood off all the Spurs players too much. Dembele was nothing special. Anderson on his day or a fit Fletch would have him in their pocket and the players shut him out of the game second half.
Am I alone in thinking that it is perfectly fair to judge OUR manager on results ?
Yes – the team has had unparallelled success in the PL and we have been (lucky enough) to win 2 CL Finals – (we were outplayed by Bayern and Terry the racists slip saved us in the other)
But let us face facts – Every manager should rightly be judged on his last season.
Last season we were atrocious in the Champions League and were handed the PL on a plate only to fucking drop it.
The fact of the matter is, last season we lost every competition we entered.
But we mustn`t criticise Fergie, oh no, according to some fans he must never be criticised.
Its not just one defeat against Tottenham that causes concern its the whole of last season and ALL the boring games we endured during the 19th Title which we won by boring teams to death with Carrick and Gibson numbing them into an early death.
And you can’t get many Yaya Toure’s on the market, what a player. I think him and Fellani are really hard core, strong, tall, intelligent box to box players with a great passing range and good at defending, probably the best in the league on current form.
@ Shinji – relax mate.
I think the issue is that rather than criticising the Managers choice of team you seem to be attacking him. I don’t think Giggs should have started but other than that there was nothing wrong with the team sent out and as Giggs was not getting into the game he was taken off at half time. Obviously, the Manager had expected him to play better and he sees him in training all the time.
So what you are shouting about is one player you did not think should have started who the manager removed, You are ignoring the fact the players on the pitch who played so well second half were also slack in the first half. I don’t see how the manager can be blamed for that. He should not have to scream at the team half way, these are United players they should have been motivated and better first half.
So criticising the most successful Manager in history is fine, but make some fucking sense. The fact we tied in the EPL was year was a great achievement, the Everton game was a fuck up but our defence as a whole was fucked up last year and players lacked judgement at times. Have you seen how Chelsea played without Drogba or noticed that City lost the most points when Toure was at the Africa cup of nations?
You criticise SAF for what exactly? That we did not may Champions league with Carrick playing in defence in the group stages and a bunch of kids like Jones being bedded in?
I think the problem is not SAF, he generally is great at putting out the right team and correcting mistakes and under performing players, I think the problem is fans who just scream their heads off for the manager to go without actually understanding his achievements and even against Spurs he sorted it out half time and we won the second half. We have new players – think how long it took Vidic and Evra to bed in, then they were world class – Kagwa and RVP need time too.
Also, starting with Anderson and Cleverly is not the holy grail in these games, paired together they are very attacking and would have left Scholes/ Carrick alone and exposed at the back and neither has the game control or passing range of Scholes and neither are great at defence.
Anderson and Cleverly would also have occupied Kagwa’s space and they are not as good as him, he has shown he can turn games, assist and score and we need him to develop in the team.
Also tracking back defending by the wingers first half was poor, the pitch is huge, Carrick and Scholes cannot cover all of MF.
SINCE WEMBLEY GAME VS BARCELONA SAF Team selection is annoying and horrible,,in short fergi his time is over..he is just using his PL experience to command players to perfom but the team chemistry is useless.Rio and Giggs their time is over too, totally rubbish and they are ruining their reputation .”There is no value in the market” and we fools believe it RVP luxiary 24m,dembele a need 10m and we are told there is no value.I respected Saf but it seems he dont want to invest at the centre park so that when he sign off we got nailed,screwed and then crying we miss you the Gaffer…So that to be highly remembered!!we are in downhill and 4-4-2 is trash
Evra: “‘I think the problem is about our head. It looked like we stayed in the hotel today. In the first 45 minutes there was no speed, no focus and we didn’t win many challenges. And then we conceded some silly goals. Maybe I’m being hard on myself and the team, but today we put on the Man United face only in the second half. And that is not enough if you want to win the title.’
Daily Mail: “Players like Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and Michael Carrick may be serving their team well when United have the ball. When the opposition move forwards as directly and as quickly as Tottenham did on Saturday, however, then they may as well not be there.”
@ Kagwa – you are a fool. Rio was Man of the Match and outstanding against Liverpool. The Manager has said he has lost a yard of pace and has to be managed for injury, but the problem is not Rio, when fit he is still one of the best, the problem is injuries to Vidic and Smalling which don’t allow him proper rest.
Fans like you are muppets, who are you suggesting Dembele replace? He is an attacking MF, we have enough of those – Cleverly, Ando, Kagwa and also Scholes and Carrick even Rooney can play that role very well. Dembele is not as good as people are making out just because he had one good game against us.
The issue is that we have injuries in defence, it is a shame, but we have 3 injured defenders, including our best CB, Vidic, and our most promising, Smalling. So shut the fuck up blaming SAF, I am getting tired of the pathetic shit coming out of the mouths of a bunch of morons.
In the last 5 years we have been in THREE Champions league final and won One. We would have won more if we were not playing the best Barca team in history with the best player in the world on fire.
In the last 5 years we have won THREE EPL titles and drawn another in points despite having a huge defensive injury crisis.
So everyone criticising SAF – you can say Ryan was a wrong one to start with – but everything else – SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU ASSWHOLES.
More than SAF, I think the blame falls squarely on our coaching staff…since 2009, when Ronaldo and Queiroz left, we have won 1 PL out of 3, and no CL, including getting pasted out of the group stage last time…I understand we do not have the divine right to win trophies every season, but I’d feel better if my team gave its best and then lost, rather than bend over and be hammered face down…for anyone who is defending the coaching staff (one person apparently suggested that Rene is considered one of the best technical coaches globally), I have a few questions:
1- Apart from patches, we have not played football the United way…we tend to bore our way to 1-0, and in extreme cases, 2-1 victories (most of which are come-from-behind, which, rather than showing United’s never-say-die attitude, goes to show we are defending idiotically to concede in the first place). If the coaches are so good, and we are supposed to be catching up with the Barca’s, Madrid’s, and Munich’s of this world, how come we are falling further behind, and quickly ?
2- Our players’ technical abilities have deteriorated quite a bit…apart from Rooney, no one can take a decent direct free-kick, much less an indirect one, no good penalty takers, and definitely no good corner takers…is the training insufficient ?
3- We are not analyzing opponents before games anymore, I think…playing a midfield 3 with a combined age of over 100 against a team which is renowned for its counter-attacks and quick players is something which most common people would consider suicidal, not to mention proper football fans…what was the logic behind it ? My personal answer is sheer incompetence, but I rather suspect senility or insanity (these points are of course for Phelan and Rene) are the more obvious choices…
4- If we are supposed to be basing our game on pace, how come we have a midfield 2 who actually slows the game down ? Carrick is a good player, but he is about as good a defensive shield for our defense as the Maginot Line was for France in World War 2 (for those who don’t know, look it up, the parallels are startling)…stats show his interceptions as almost 3 per game, and tackles as something like 3 as well…but how many times have we seen him proactively tackle higher up the pitch ? Intercepting a loose pass is all fine, but if he is such an awesome defensive mid (as our coaching staff and dear manager make him out to be), why have shots on target from the opposition on our goal increased in recent seasons ? I didn’t see the problem with Fletcher around…on top of that, just to clarify, Carrick doesn’t move…he shuffles…
5- Why are we getting so many injuries ? And a lot of them seem to happen in training…I mean, one day, the player would be fine…next day, “oh, he’s out for 2-3 weeks, he seems to have knackered himself in training”…WHAT IN THE FUCK happens in our training sessions ? If all this was happening such that we would be playing at an increased tempo for 90 minutes vis-a-vis Barca or Madrid, I’d understand, but we’ve actually slowed down in recent years…I don’t see too many players getting injured in training for other top teams…
6- What’s the obsession with strikers ? Does the coaching staff think of them as superheroes ? That they can just take the ball and hammer it into the goal from 35-40 yards out ? Fair enough, we got RvP, but after getting Kagawa and switching to a 4-2-3-1, with Welbeck, Chicharito, and Keane already there, was there an absolute need for him ? On top of that, we got Angelo Henriquez, and to make matters worse, we have him playing in the reserves rather than sending him out on loan so that he can develop better…I’d rather that we had Chicharito and Welbeck playing in the reserves while Keane was out, at least they would be able to practice shooting…
7-Last but not the least, we brought Kagawa to change our style of play, not to integrate him into ours…the sooner that is understood, the better it will be…and from my observation of Dortmund, as well as Japan, Kagawa needs mobility around him to succeed…players who are running in behind the defense, midfielders making runs into the box, and even players who are not making such runs, constantly moving so that the possession and the movement on-and-off the ball can continue…expecting Kagawa to succeed with the non-mobile Carrick, Scholes, and Giggs combo, along with the one-footed Valencia (at least he is trying this season to use his left foot) must be maddening for the poor guy…same is true for RvP…he’s come from a team who used to lose because of being bullied in defense, but their movement and seamlessness in attack is the best in England, ahead of even ours in recent seasons, which brought out the best in him…I have no doubt that Arsenal would be top this season if he would have stayed there…
If I’m wrong on any point, please let me know, though I doubt satisfactory contradictions are forthcoming…
One positive from the game was, had we not conceded the 3rd goal and with a bit of luck, we would’ve leveled the game around the 65th minute mark and then proceed to hammer Spurs.
One thing tho, the 2nd half was very good. Now if only the team played like that for the whole game.
One thing to say here. 6 games and already 2 fucking losses. Absolutely pathetic.
@Shinji
It’s ok to criticize SAF. I also agree with you that for three years already we have been playing the worst football I have ever seen and all this time SAF wasn’t able to do anything. I am ok to be outplayed by teams who spend tons, but these last couple of years many small time teams look like Barcelona against us and that is just unacceptable. W
Some of the bullshit here isn’t worth replying to. NBI, I don’t know why you bothered mate.
i have an idea.
lets START the next couple of game 2-0 down.. that should get us to play well for 90 mins
Alrite I kno this doesn’t pertain to this thread but I’m not sure where to put it even tho it’s been said before. I am still disgusted with the FA. Forget about the ABU treatment we receive but the whole fucking cunt terry deal is a joke. IMO the FA actually thought Ingerland had a chance at the Euros and kept That cunt JT eligible so he could make the difference in winning it (which is rediculous). Shows the FA cares more about the Ingerland performance rather than the reputation of the English game. Just gets me going after Suarez, a non english player, gets an 8 game ban yet that cunt JT gets 4. I can’t even respect the FA after this. I mean Rooney gets suspended for nearly as many games for his gesture in the camera which is no where near as bad IMO.
Rant over, I kno it’s late but let’s get at it after the tough one this weekend.
GGMU
Again apologize for the rant.
I will not try n criticize SAF no matter the start of league play either cause he will put us in the best position to take the trophy no matter the start of the campaign. We will be there in the end.
well we have already lost the three points.. lets look forward to cluj and newcastle..
for cluj i hope we play a young midfield.. and continue it for newcastle. really want to see what clev ando can do without scholesy..
lets hope we see this team play
De Gea
rafa wooton evans buttener
clev ando
nani rooney kagawa
rvp
we play this team and we shall cruise by comfortably..
I’d dare say it was a fantastic attacking performance in the second half, albeit the utter rubbish in the first. classic tale of two halves.
Defending has to buck up, its not that we’re weak-all i see is complacency and a little lack of desire. Like “Ah, we’re United, we’re at home, we can do this”
Anybody read the shearer interview. barely into the new season and the title is definitely going to stamford bridge? wowie. not even emptyhad? this clearly shows how much the world hates us.
Yeesh looking at some of the posts here, i don’t even understand what game people watch. Or if they just go to some stupid highlights site and check out the goals.
god damn.
i dont even know who to point out. but people can we get some intelligent conversation going here again? what’s with the general dumbass populous
The only problem with this game was the fact we started with Carrick, Scholes and Giggs in hte middle. There was no energy and they were standing and watching or jogging to try to keep up with Spurs midfielders. As soon as Rooney got on the pitch we looked completely different. I love Giggs and Scholes but they are no longer game starters. Cleverly needs his chance as does Ando and I honestly think its Ando who we need in the middle more at the mo, he has an energy that we are missing in the middle of the park. I just hope SAF sorts it out coz at the end of the day he picks the side but he is picking a shit midfield, as soon as I saw the team line up I knew it was going to be a shocker as the first half proved. Thank God they looked more like the team they should in the second!! really thought we played great in the second!!
Happy Birthday to a United Legend.
Duncan Edwards born Oct 1, 1936. Would have been 76 today.
Died in Munich on Feb 21, 1958
United 1952-1958 with 177 appearances and 21 goals.
Gone but not forgotten.
Feel that Dunc and Sir Bobby would have been mates. Life lost to young.
“Spurs were too big and too fast for United. In Sandro and Mousa Dembélé, Villas-Boas has midfield heft and speed, with the latter’s heels possessing a turbo booster that glides him away from opponents. The Belgian creates as well as destroys, as he did on 32 minutes when taking Sandro’s pass just outside the area, shifting into top gear to leave Paul Scholes watching, then finding Gareth Bale.”
Excellent and truthful analysis which were so exposed on Saturday against Spurs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/30/tottenham-expose-manchester-united-frailties
Carrick and Valencia were missing from the training squad today. Given that the game is tomorrow, it wouldn’t surprise me if neither travelled with the team.
After a brilliant hat-trick for Utd, RvP seems to be fading, either he’s carrying an injury which he’s afraid to talk about to the staff, or he needs some good rest before being involved again with the first team. Currently he’s not providing anything which we cannot get from playing either Chicharito or Welbeck (thou I still have my doubts on him) or even Macheda. In midfield I believe the pressure is too much on Kagawa, and he does need support from others to keep the ball flowing whenever Utd move forward. Tottenham had a man-marking made on him and he was barely able to cope in the first half, but managed to do better in the second half as Utd took possession of the ball and tried to get the passes flowing and put pressure, thou in the end they did it too meekly as the equalizer never came. For this defeat I will say it is the whole team which underplayed and if the same happens in the CL and vs Newcastle in the coming match then we are in for some big trouble this season. Lets hope Jones and Smalling recover in time to help stabilize the defence, and that the others standup and start taking their responsibilities.
Moscow jt.
I did and they are,not in attack but a team,disagree with me? Then quite simply demolish my views I really dont mind,show and convince me I am in error you can start with the league table 6 games in.
Anyone know where I can find some tickets for the Cluj game? I badly need one!!!
If you do know, please e-mail stefan@zuper.org – thanks!
Also if any Reds are in Cluj, I’d love to meet up for beers ^^ Use the same e-mail.
We’ll never die.
K.O.S.E – glad united have been written off, maybe we can buck our ideas and start realising there are more quality in teams these days, 3 points is not for certain anymore.
Nice to know the likes of tunni, powell and lingard are training with the team, united need to start giving them game time, these are some of the younger guys trying to carry the club on. as much as I admire giggs, I still look at what’s best for united and they should be ahead of him as alternatives and can be paired alongside experirnced duos. Our welsh knight has reached the twilight stage and even that light is starting to flicker.
Still not sure why petrucci isn’t making the first team squad, he was fantastic against newcastle U21, very creative and has got better in terms of putting in a shift off the ball but either he’s been punished for orchestrating that supposed “scuff” with nani (something fergie the disciplinarian would’ve swat aside by now) or he’s still not ready for the physical demands of the highest level, needs to work harder as I don’t want him ending up like magnus eikrem.
samuel – they will be broken, if the side is not good enough, and this side is worse off than the side between 2004 – 06. For me, fergie has wasted 4 season’s of his managerial career, trying to get has much out of scholes and giggs as possible.And clearly not seeing the deep routed problems with the side, now he needs to rebuild the defense and the midfield. We have injuy prone players, and to expect to do well in Europe with this spine, no way. We have gone into mediocrity since 2009, 2010/11 title winning season, was a great platform to go from strength to strength, but no, he has failed to correct deep deep problems infesting the squad. And it may take over another 100 million, and still he may strengthen the wrong area’s, AGAIN
SAF has lost tactically so long time ago,i noticed that in Barcelona game,he is just using PL experince and motivation to players
our midfield is useless.Rio and Giggs their time is over.
F.i.t.b – I understand the frustrations and my own conclusion is, he deems the players both in the youth system and those currently in the first team squad capable of solving the issue in the engine room, I think it’s up to these guys to step up. Agreed that reliance on the experienced duos has gone on for far too long, no matter how much yoga they do, they’ll not regain that important sharpness. We’re starting to look like ac milan a couple of years ago, loads of experience but no legs around them, I hope the younger players get more trust and sustained amount of time but they also need to perform to gain the manager’s trust. All I can say is, if fergie sees a great midfielder avalaible and at an affordable price, he would go for it. Perhaps he and the coaches haven’t.
Generally, no point in broadcasting gloom, we should aim to pick ourselves up and keep looking at how the club can improve.
I would do this :
I have criticized the manager so in fairness – Here is what I would change if I were in charge.
I would pick a team that was young and energetic.
We HAVE young players that have experience so do NOT need the likes of Giggs or even the amazing Paul Scholes to start.
I want a team to feel settled, to be match fit, and to get used to the way each other plays. That builds confidence, trust and also match fitness.
I disagree with all this stop/start/play/rest/picked/dropped management style and also playing players out of position to cover injuries. A case in point – dont play Carrick in central defence EVER. Play one of the young players who are naturally central defenders. Dont play Ryan Giggs in central midfield. Play Petrucci or one of the other younger players – perhaps Pogba would have stayed had the promises made to him been kept.
Tell Ryan Giggs the bad news – you are past it. But then give him the good news – You have Mike Phelan`s job.
Then tell Mike Phelan to clear out his locker.
I think you really need to know who your first choice team is and then put them out to play. Drop a player if he doesnt perforn and replace him with a hungrier player – He can get back in the team if he proves his hunger in training or the Carling Cup.
Fire the team up for each and every single game and make it known to them that they owe it to all the fans that have saved for a ticket made all the arrangements in their lives to be able to watch the game live or on TV and to go out and bloody well entertain them.
The team needs to play like UNITED – and not this patient- patient dull- dull slow-slow build up garbage that is terrible to watch and doesnt well work for us.
The second half against Tottenham was the first exciting game at OT for a coupe of years.
They need to be that fired up EVERY time they put on a United shirt and it is the Managers responsibilty and his alone to make sure that is the case.
The fact is, we were soooo terrible in the first half on Saturday and despite that, the Manager was sat mute for the entire time and that is not acceptable. If the players are not fired up then maybe it is because the manager wasnt fired up either.
Kagawa bunga – you’re really talking a lot of crap again. Tactics or not, barca would’ve ripped any team apart and they did so, they’re ahead of everyone.
Secondly, you don’t win all the titles fergie with just PL experience, yes he makes errors but he’s always been tactically astute. His abilities as a manager is not really up for debate. He only relies on “motivation”, what do you think football is, a celtic battle? Bollocks yet again.
The promises made to him? What promises can an unproven big time charlie be given?. Secondly, passion and fight are things fergie has never lacked. thirdly, I do not know why I bother.
A lot of shoulda woulda couldas, but the key thing is that rooneys back and firing in all cylinders. Thank god we have rvp though because adds that extra flair to the lineup along with kagawa. I like kagawa cutting in from the left because he gets bodied off the ball too easily in the middle. Whereas no one could get the ball off Rooney when he had his back to the goal receiving the ball. You can’t blame just the defense for the goals cuz there wasn’t much cover from the middle, although the defense just kept backing off especially for bales goal. But don’t worry all, this will be our month to go top of the table, barring anymore injuries though.
samuel – I think it is an ageing squad, and that is exactly what I have been debating with friends. Look at the squad, ferdinand vidic evra scholes giggs carrick fletcher, these guys are not in their prime years anymore, and that includes the duo of fletcher and carrick. I think fergie really has not been on the ball since 2009, he has let area’s rot, and now we have more than one position need solving, we need 2 or even 3 area’s of the squad to sort out. We have seen pogress in all fergie era’s, 92 98 2006, I do not see any progress with this squad. We seem to be no better, or even worse off than last season. We can say well DDG evans smallen jones anderson cleverly valencia nani welbeck rooney, but these players, well some of them are injured, or not stepping up to the plate, or not given a chance to prove themselves. For me the spine of this squad like I said all summer long, is not good enough to win the PL. And fergie really needs to have a good look at this squad, and see there deep lying issues with the squad’s depth, and physical condition, and certain players who are physically breaking down all the time
@ Samuel – just trying to balance it out mate.
Everybody relax, United always start slow, we always have done so this is the United way, we don’t do it easy.
Obviously with City, Chelsea and Arsenal looking sharp, we need to minimise dropped points but every team will drop points and have their poor patch, 32 games to go so relax.
I am enjoying the new talent and the entrance of some of our youth. They have to prove themselves, if they do they will make positions their own. Don’t forget all the players who credit SAF with making them, Beckham, Ronaldo and now you can see Welbeck, Evans, Rafael, Cleverly all from the youth team coming through. We had Rooney at 17 when he wasn’t a star. Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra became world class at United and Valencia on verge of it. Which other Club has so many home grown youth players that are potentially top level?
Which other Club develops players as well as us, other than Arsenal and Barca. Chelsea and City buy finished product and Chelsea have taken Torres backwards and failed, Mikel has not developed, Essien gone backwards, Malouda and Kalou gone backwards and they have failed to bring through their youth effectively. I would taje United any time.
Dembele is someone we bid for but it was not to be and that fact we did not break the bank for him is because SAF wants United youth with potential to have their chance and that is something we should all respect.
Whatever it is, the cry for getting sir Alex and our legends out of united is out of the question. They have made what united is now and we need their services for more years…united till I die…GGMU…
What I hate with top level sportsmen and coaches is the arrogance. Why can’t they explain to fans why no midfield buying? Why not come on a forum and answer a few fan questions? For all the talk about fans being the b-all and end-all they don’t act like it.