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VIDEO: Park Goal vs Liverpool

szólj hozzá: ParkJS Goal

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. Mikekelly12 says:

    I agree we gift goals at times, but for that lack of concentration at the end I thought we defended well! Our goal came from a mistake by thier left back so our lack of craetuvity has as much to answer for as our defence.

  2. Sparkz says:

    @Willie 18.16 – Defo agree with you there. But then again…if my Aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle. And sometimes I fear there’s more chance of that than Rafael being fit consistently!

    @MrC – I think Welbeck’s ability to hold the ball up is really good tbh, and the fact that he combines it with pace, work rate & link up play is what gives him the edge in that department over all our other strikers IMO. He was poor today though.

    I do agree on the Berba thing though….I think we could’ve bought him on and pushed Welbeck out wide as the first sub. Keep 3 in midfield, yet retain the ball up top a bit better.

  3. Lebomanc says:

    I was really surprised to see lindegaard warming up though after liverpool’s first goal!!
    Why was hearing up anyways? I felt really bad for de gea though through out the game
    Some people are telling me that is career at united is over,

  4. NotoriousRedDevil says:

    Safe to say I think we thought some of our youngsters, whilst not being regular starters would start to be blooded this season. That really hasn’t happened. It really didn’t happen in the Carling Cup. If we didn’t make such a balls up of qualification could have played some of them in the last 1 or 2 group games of the CL. We may see them vs Ajax, I wouldn’t want to bet on it though.

    If we don’t win the league this season I would like to see some of our youngsters get some games. I’ve always maintained that if we don’t buy the players we need we should bring the young’uns through and for me at this current stage we have done neither. Whatever the reason may be.

  5. Mikekelly12 says:

    He complained about a side strain apparently.

  6. NotoriousRedDevil says:

    Also I know people have been praising Tony V but I thought he was very quiet 2nd half. Granted he didn’t have a lot to aim for with his crossing but wasn’t nearly as active as in the first. If anything when Hernandez came on most of our creative play went down the left when the best crosser/quickest midfielder on the pitch was clearly on the right.

  7. Mikekelly12 says:

    A positive note from today, nobody got stretchered off and as far as I’m aware ni new injury worries?!

  8. Mikekelly12 says:

    Don’t think anybody did much second half to be fair.

  9. CedarsDevil says:

    Cannot really comment on the match as I did not see it, only just saw the goal by Park on this thread. Defeat is easier to handle in a way when you do not witness it. However even my die hard Liverpool supporting nephew text me and said that a draw at least would have been fair.

    Anyway, this makes the game on the 11th all the more sweeter.


  10. Costas says:


    The Fletcher situation will always be a question mark for me. We went into this season knowing what his problem was and yet we didn’t buy anyone for cover. And this is exactly what we did with our full back options. We stripped the team down to the bare bones. As far as Anderson goes, I doubt he ever had surgery. I have a feeling he was given some time off to get his shit together and lose weight. And then he got injured in training 2 weeks ago.

    Don’t know mate. It’s just too many issues of a different nature at the moment.I can’t explain it. But I sure as hell know it’s not because of bad luck. Something has gone horribly wrong this season. Whether it’s the medical team, pre season or every injury prone player outdoing themselves this season. If Ferguson ever writes a book, I’ll love to know his actual take on this season. Because he damn well knows we haven’t just been “unlucky” in that department.


    Nah, I don’t think the solution is the Glazers bringing on their own team either. But I do like Saad’s idea about an audit. Quite frankly, I am surprised Fergie himself isn’t looking into this. I reiterate. I am not just talking about the medical team. Maybe it’s what happened in pre season. Maybe his faith in certain players was misplaced. All I know is that wishing it away won’t solve this problem anymore.

  11. Mr C says:

    @ Sparkz: ‘I think Welbeck’s ability to hold the ball up is really good tbh, and the fact that he combines it with pace, work rate & link up play is what gives him the edge in that department over all our other strikers IMO. He was poor today though.’

    Sorry Sparkz mate, but Danny’s first touch isn’t that good and no way does he have the edge over all of our strikers. He’s an a run and gun type of striker. What Danny does perhaps bring up front is an all round mix that complements weaknesses in the others, but the top of Danny’s game doesn’t measure up to what the others can do. For example, Chico’s a better finisher but not much of a physical presence, Berbatov holds the ball up better and has greater skill, but Danny runs about more etc etc. This is not to knock Danny but merely to point out the folly of playing him up front as lone striker – he needs a partner. And when the service isn’t there…well there’s not much most strikers can do about that.

  12. dazbomber says:

    I thought we played great to day 9 first team team players out and we controlled the game but some poor defending. I thought it was a two footed lunge on Giggs and he should have gone , but the ref today was never going to send any one off. I hope we can get some young lads in the team but with the tough games cumin up I don’t know. It’s shit getting beat by them but our football is getting back to it’s best.

  13. Sparkz says:

    @MikeKelly – You’re right mate, our defending today was excellent until the last minute. That’s my point though, even when we defend well, we switch off and gift goals. Willie made a point above about us “allowing the game to get away from us” in the second half….not the first time either. The last round vs City..same story. Basle at home – same there as well. We have an issue with compalcency/confidence/concentration at times, at the back more than any area.

    @Mr C – Danny’s touch isn’t as good as Berba’s (not many people that are though!)…but as a lone striker, physique and strength is just as important. In this league, maybe even more so.

    Additionally, that work rate of keeping defenders on their toes, plus the ability to get in behind defences is why Fergie chose him to lead the line if you ask me (and the fact that he was in form).

    It basically comes down to what a manager wants from his lone striker I suppose- a patient, possession based game, or a more physical and hustling approach.

  14. Mr C says:

    @Sparkz. In fairness to Danny, I don’t think playing a lone striker really works unless you are playing for a draw (parking the bus) or have other players who are able and willing to break through from MF or the wings to take or create chances. But if we are going to play that way – and I don’t think we should -Berbatov’s got a better skill set for it than Danny.

  15. StatesideAussie says:

    Morning lads. Well, it’s morning over here. As soon as I saw scholes being subbed off, I figured we were in trouble. There were several aspects to it. Scholes had been bossing the midfield, so him coming off was a problem anyway. (I have to assume his tank was empty.) Secondly, our cupboard was bare, so we couldn’t replace Scholes with another MF. It was noticeable how much the dippers changed their game and took the upper hand after the substitution. And finally, even given that we had no choice but to take Scholes off and bring on a striker instead, I would have chosen Berbatov, not Hernandez. Or, I would have taken Welbeck off too and brought on both Hernandez and Berbatov, with Berbatov dropping into the hole behind Hernandez.

    I don’t mean any slight on Hernandez. But Danny hadn’t been getting much service all day, and although he and Hernandez are different players in some respects, they are both similar in one respect too, in that they’re most effective when they play high up, right at the back of the opposition defense. It means they need service, and yesterday there was precious little of that. That’s why, when Scholes had to come off and we had no more midfielders left, I would have had Berbatov sitting behind either Welbeck or Hernandez, not Welbeck and Hernandez together.

    In any event, it seemed pointless bringing on Berbatov for the last two minutes or less. I certainly did not get that. If you don’t want to use him, then don’t use him.

    Apart from being knocked out of the cup by the hated dippers, the result also sucks because it is immediately apparent that the racist cunt Suarez, and all the rest of the horrible racist cunts involved with that stinking bucket of filth of a club, including King Kunt Kenny and their pathetic, neanderthal, bin-dipper Ku Klux Kop “fans”, take this as some sort of sick twisted vindication of their sick and twisted racist behavior. Fucking scum, the lot of them.

  16. g-man says:

    It sucks winning so much then winning nothing but get used to it. Life is swings and roundabouts. I just wish the Glazers would fuck off and we got a decent midfield. Jesus how many seasons do we have to keep saying that?

  17. denton davey says:

    StateSideAussie @ 22:20: “As soon as I saw scholes being subbed off, I figured we were in trouble. There were several aspects to it. Scholes had been bossing the midfield, so him coming off was a problem anyway.”

    G’day m8. As long as Scholes and Carrick were playing together, the midfield-whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Oddly, bringing Giggs to play the ScholesRole didn’t work – this is “odd” because usually the Giggs/Carrick combination is more coherent than the Scholes/Carrick partnership. Today it wasn’t.

    However, I think that your secondary point is the more significant one – taking off Scholes and bringing on Chicharito (instead of Dimmy) meant that the constipated-solid midfield got a strong dose of Metamucil and things loosened up (sorry for the shitty metaphor). Chicharito is a player who thrives on quick penetrating service and that just wasn’t forthcoming without Nani/Rooney and because too much of UTD’s attack went down the left side so that – as NotoriousRedDevil said @ 18:35 – the most dynamic crosser was marginalized in the second half. (I have to blow-my-own-horn here and say that I had made a not dissimilar comment at half-time when I suggested that UTD tilt-the-field to the right to take advantage of the Rafael/Valencia combination. Alas, SAF didn’t get that message.)

    Overall, this was another one of those frustrating “half full/half empty” days. The youngsters – Rafael, BigManSmalling, and DannyTheLad – all did very well; the oldsters – Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes – did what they’ve been doing for a long time but, unfortunately, not as well as they used to do it. Giggs has always been inconsistent and Scholes seems to have little “puff” so he really didn’t run much – I watched him closely and he was usually jogging very slowly and very rarely got himself into the danger area whereas he used to pop up there and score. Their declining ability to impose themselves on the match – except in brief interludes for Giggs or by playing a relatively stationary role in the case of Scholes – is troubling and a cause for concern. On the other hand, SAF was seriously handicapped by not being able to call on YoungTomCleverley, Anderson, Darren Fletcherinho, MrJones, or even TheWayneBoy while he is clearly not confident enough in Paul Pogba to give him playing time.

    BUT what can one say about David De Gea ? His shot-stopping is excellent, so, too, is his distribution. However, his command of the area seems to be sub-standard and that must send a shiver of worry through all his defenders. Plus, he could have run through the “pick play” that led to the first goal but he’s too lightweight and he’s just not confident enough to do so. I think that Lindegaard would have done that – or, maybe, if Lindegaard was in goal then LiverPoo wouldn’t have tried that manoevre although Michael Carrick would still have been flat-footed rather than challenging Daniel Agger for the cross.

    Overall, then, today’s match was a microcosm of this year’s season. For the glass-half-empty gang too many first-choice players were missing, there was not enough penetration, and the match was lost by naive, school-boy defending from CaptainEvra. For the glass-half-full brigade (like me), the maturity of Rafael, BigManSmalling, Jonny Evans (let’s not forget that he’s still a kid) and DannyTheLad was good to see and holds promise for a rebound.

    Being optimistic, I’d like to think that this season is closely following the 2006 script when CaptainKeane-o was summarily dismissed, Ruud was sent packing, UTD had exited the CL before the knock-out stage, the RentBoyz looked imperious, and it seemed that SAF had lost his powers. Being optimistic, I seem to recall that 2006 was the beginning of a glorious run – 4/5 EPL champtionships and 3 CL finals. Being optimistic, I prefer to see UTD’s glass as being half-full and think that this is very much a season of “transition” – if TheLads can win anything this year it will be a huge achievement. If TheLads don’t start another cycle of domination next year it will be a huge disappointment.

  18. denton davey says:

    Say it isn’t so:

    “United could make a sensational move for German midfielder Michael Ballack, 35. (”

  19. StatesideAussie says:

    Denton … good comments mate. I think it was Slim who said we need to remember this is a squad in transition, so I am not too down about it. (Yep, let’s hope the Ballack rumor is a hoax.) I especially agree with your last statements. I won’t be distraught if we have to settle for 2nd place this year — I always thought that was on the cards, though I confess my hopes rose dramatically early in the season when we were playing so well. The catch this year is not us coming second (since realistically, we can’t expect to win every year; after all, this is the PL, not La Liga), but that Shitty might win it. Still, we’ve been through this shit before with the rent boys and the arse and always won out in the end.

    As for DDG and the dippers’ first goal, I think the match commentator had it right (for a change) when he said DDG’s better option would have been to stand back on the line, once he saw they were blocking him off. That was obviously a deliberate ploy, by the way, and bloody close to obstruction. I can’t help thinking they wouldn’t have gotten away with it if Rio or Vida had been there to police them. But I also think we need to remember that both new keepers have been playing behind makeshift and changing defenses all season, and haven’t had chance to settle. I know others will say they shouldn’t need to settle, but I won’t buy into that.

    Both keepers are good long-term prospects. I think DDG will learn to impose himself. I am not of the school that says he is physically too frail to ever be imposing. He has the height, and what he lacks in brawn, he can make up with technique, attitude and experience. But in the short term, I do think AL might be a better option.

    And yes, the fact that even in the midst of this injury crisis, SAF does not see fit to give Pogba or Morrison a go, is highly instructive. We all know SAF has never been shy about giving youngsters a chance. Indeed, even in the current make-up, there are plenty of youngsters who stand as evidence of that. If Pogba and Morrison aren’t getting a go, there’s a bloody good reason for it.

  20. Denton davey says:

    StateSideAussie @ 2:12: for sure, the “obstruction” was planned -in basketball and US football it’s called a “pick play”. Still, Michael Carrick WAS flat-footed. One other thing, can Carrick step up when he plays alongside Scholes – I remain unconvinced. And, today, Carrick’s cross-field passing wasn’t very good, either.

    I am in complete agreement with you about Pogbs/Morrison and the “transition” but I’m enough of an optimist to think that the EPL title is still a possibility -what happens between now and mid-March will be crucial. In the meanwhile it would be good to get the walking wounded back to give ManShitty a proper fight.

  21. WillieRedNut says:

    The difference from 2006 to the present day, is Fergie hasn’t got that long left to wield his magic. Three years and his done. The next guy will want to try and stamp his own authority on the team. Tough task that will be. I certainly don’t envy whoever it is.

  22. Sparkz says:

    @Willie – I’m not sure about that tbh. The fact that Fergie is developing a team with young players, even though he won’t be around to see their peak….tells me that the next manager has been identified. And it’ll be someone who will continue what Fergie’s started, someone who’ll change very little.

    Think about it….why introduce 18, 19, 20 year olds if the next manager is gonna come in 3 years and wanna get rid of them. Is that not a bit of a waste?

  23. denton davey says:

    Sparkz @ 16:14: “The fact that Fergie is developing a team with young players, even though he won’t be around to see their peak….tells me that the next manager has been identified. And it’ll be someone who will continue what Fergie’s started, someone who’ll change very little.”

    I am more in agreement with this line-of-thought than Willie’s sense that SAF is rushing towards the exit.

    It seems to me that two factors are at work: first, SAF doesn’t want to repeat the schlamozzle of the post-Busby years when the successor inherited a team past its peak with no clear future team ready to go; and, second, the longer SAF stays the less likely that someone like Jose will take over and the more likely that someone like OGS has already been designated. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t OGS win the Norwegian league with a team of youngsters ?

    Of course, the team-building is a matter of fits-and-starts – some of the guys are progressing nicely [MrJones, DannyTheLad, BigManSmalling, YoungTomCleverley, Rafael and (if he can ever get fit and stay fit) Fabio BUT, of course, some others (Pogba/Morrison and, perhaps, David De Gea) haven’t been as predicted and/or advertised. Then there’s the group that will be the “veteran core” of the post-Fergy team – TheWayneBoy, Nani, Valencia, Jonny Evans, Anderson, DarrenFletcherinho, and Chicharito – most of whom have already proven to be solid starters but whose health/fitness is always likely to be unpredictable. Add to this group, some of the guys who are still “infants” like Ryan Tunnicliffe, Will/Michael Keane, Davide Petrucci, Larnell Cole, Jesse Lingard (and so on) and it seems that SAF has been working diligently on providing for continuity and not change when he departs.

    Overall, the group of guys in the previous paragraph – and probably two or three more who will be signed in the next few years – and it seems to me like the foundation of TheNextUnited is already in place. But, of course, I’m a glass-half-full kinda guy.

  24. WillieRedNut says:

    Sparkz – I said the new man will want to stamp his own authority on the team. That doesn’t mean he’ll get shot of a load of players. I see Fergie gone in 3, maybe 4 years time. He’ll leave the next guy a top quality squad. No doubt about that. I don’t know what your point is there denton? Rushing towards what? His time is coming to a close. That’s life unfortunately. Ole isn’t confirmed either. So no point making assumptions yet. It could yet be the self proclaimed special one. Whoever it is, the club will be in fine fetal. My theory on when the boss is ready to go, the Glazers could be ready to sell United. Just a theory. No evidence that will be the case….

  25. WillieRedNut says:

    Wouldn’t be my choice, but he’s one who’d relish taking over from the great man.

  26. StatesideAussie says:

    My theory is that SAF wants to build the squad from youngsters for a whole bunch of reasons.

    First, he enjoys the challenge of working with youngsters, loves their energy and daring, takes enormous satisfaction from seeing them develop as footballers and as people, and knows he will never get another opportunity to do this.

    Second, I also suspect that SAF does honestly and deeply object to the transfer fees that are being demanded currently, even for ordinary players.

    Third, I think he and the club both have one eye on the FFP rules.

    But beyond that, I think SAF and the club are also being very clever in how they prepare for his own departure, and his succession by a new manager. To understand this, we have to look at what might happen when the next manager comes in, from the point of view of both the club and the new manager.

    The new manager must have the right (and the ability) to change the squad. No one needs a lame-duck manager. For the club, that raises a bunch of concerns:

    They will want to eliminate or minimize any compelling reasons for the new manager to go into the market. I am talking about reasons such as inheriting a squad that is on its last legs. That would force the new manager to rebuild extensively, and almost certainly through the transfer market since it is faster to buy established talent than build it from scratch. Having one or two older players (Giggs and Scholes, for example) is fine, because replacing two players does not represent a major overhaul. But if the squad has 5, 6 or 7 key players on the wrong side of 30, that would be a big issue. And it’s not just a case of needing a lot of money to replace that many key players. It’s also a case of needing to trust the next manager’s judgment in the transfer market. Even with an experienced, that is always risky.

    The club could attempt to avoid this by re-stocking the squad (through the market) before the new manager comes in. That would allow them to use SAF’s experience and nous to do the buying, but it still requires a lot of money, plus it creates an awkward situation for the new manager and the club. The club won’t want to spend a fortune now, only to have someone else come in, sell a bunch of those guys in a fire-sale and then ask for another big transfer kitty. That would be disastrous. On the other hand, like I said, we don’t need a lame-duck manager, so it would be no good to tell the new guy, “Look, we’ve bought all these guys in, now stick with them.”

    Given all those concerns, the policy of developing a new, youthful squad internally has enormous merit. Yet, it is slow and painful and frustrating. But it does mean the next manager will be handed a squad that is comprised of players that are already “certified United quality” by the current manager (the greatest of them all). And they will still have plenty of time in front of them, and we won’t have emptied the bank account in the market. If the new manager doesn’t like the look of the squad, he can sell some of them off of course, but generally speaking, players we have developed can be sold for a profit.

    This approach represents the least risk for the club in terms of football and finance. It ensures that the new manager will inherit a squad that is in good shape, but it does not paint him into a corner. To me, it makes all the sense in the world.

  27. badger says:

    Morning lads. Still sick about the result but proud of the boys, given the team that stated the match I thought that they did themselves a lot of credit and deserved a draw but that’s football, it has a way of coming back and kicking you in the bollocks every time!

    I don’t get why people are slagging off Welbeck when he runs his arse off for the team and was always an outlet for the midfield/defence. Nobody should get any blame apart from maybe Evra who was out of position for the second goal (lets be honest, he’s not been playing well for about 18 months now but there recent signs of him getting back to his best) and De Gea who, like it or not, is definitely suspect on crosses – I’m beginning to wonder whether it would have been a better idea to have bought him and let Athletico keep him for a couple more years or loan him to a Premiership club where he could find his feet before facing the pressure of playing for United. I do think he is going to be a fantastic keeper for us but it must be a massive culture shock for him with the different styles between England and Spain.

    I did think that tactically Fergie got it wrong because with Suarez out Carroll was always going to start so the scousers would be throwing in cross after cross which De Gea is definitely dodgy on, he should be clearing out everybody in his way when going for the ball but doesn’t seem physically capable of doing that at the moment.

    As for the Keane criticism who is say whether it was constructive or not? We all have our own values and will see things differently, personally I don’t think he said anything wrong and I welcome people being honest about their views, Gary Nev recently said that the injuries were no excuse for our recent run of indifferent form because that’s why we have a big squad but nobody slagged him for being critical of the team. The truth sometimes hurts but we should be big enough to admit that there are some issues with the squad at the moment but that’s one of the reasons why we are a team in transition, Fergie is changing a few things so its going to be a bit up and down for a while yet IMO but come match day whoever is on that pitch will get my support 100%.


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