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VIDEO: Welbeck and Young Goals vs Basle
September 27, 2011 99 Comments
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Quality goals. Shame about the result, we really should’ve finished the game in the first half. Extremely sloppy in second. What happened to our defense?
Pile of shite tonight lads. Anderson is back to his useless self and what is wrong with evra? He has been awful defending for over a year now at least rio has an excuse he is not fit but when has he been fit lately? Let’s hope we get vida back for liverpool and city or I fear for us at the back. But on the bright side at least we don’t have to put up with tevez ha ha MASIVE CLUB
In over 30 years of watching football l cannot remember a game where the ref has managed to be in the way so many times!! How many of our attacks in the second half stumbled because of the poor positional sense of the ref? When Park was shaping to shoot near the end and he got in the way again l nearly threw my tv out of the window!!!
Welbeck was class tonight. Don’t think we’ll see him passed over in favour of Michael Owen again anytime soon, as was the case at Stoke. Welcome back, Danny boy.
Nani is such a big player for us. I laugh at those clowns who used to say he wasn’t good enough and should be sold. I think Sir Alex Ferguson knows a player when he sees one FFS.
We were woeful tonight. No respect given to Basel from our lads, and our complacency and general sloppiness cost us 2 points tonight…..it could have and should have been a defeat. The amount of chances Basel missed were astonishing. Our defence tonight were a disgrace!
Only postives were Welbeck, Giggs and Nani’s brief brilliant cameo which resulted in him assisting our equalizer.
no postives in this match:S
Utd were not great or class 2nite. The defence line was very bad Rio was bad Utd will have 2 be better this saturday and next week against liverpool and When is Rooney out 4 someone tell me please!!!!
Two things that Sir Alex have 2 look at is,
1- passed the ball in the milfielder area
2-Defence the ball and move the ball faster out 2 the wings and cross the ball into the area to get goals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Giggs is 37 year old and what a player!!!!!!!!!!! More gametime on the pitch 4 Berotov and Giggs
Ferdinand is fucked. And Jones has to stop thinking he’s the next Beckenbauer and defend first. He was thirty yards out of postion for one goal as Ferdinand watched the ball sail ovet his head. Sort it out.
BruceThomas. It never felt like United were in control at the back. Just my opinion.
Everyone: Fairwell(or not) to Carlos, From all of us:
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/goodbye-carlos
On topic. All 3 goals were good. What about Young? Worked his fanny off!
I rightly predicted Danny would score. The shine was taken off though, with us surrendering the 3 points. Not great, but we didn’t lose. That’s something, at least.
Bruce – Jones seems to be untouchable for some reason, despite his frequent mistakes. Tom Clare, the respected United historian, even said he is the new Duncan Edwards. I like Jonesy as much as the next guy but the kid has a lot to learn imo. Seems a bit cocky too, judging by his arrogant goal celebration when he set up that goal for Rooney against Bolton. I agree with you, he needs to master the basics before he gets ideas above his station. That said, he’s very young and learning all the time.
Very bad defending. Can’t complain about the first goal, but the 2nd goal was awful, Evra couldn’t be bothered with trying to stop the cross and Ferdinand lost his man, in the same manner he lost Messi 3 years ago. 3rd goal was a lesson for Jones, to just the ball out to row z instead of trying to play it out.
But the real issue was once again in central midfield, which was none existence in terms of providing cover. Anderson went AWOL & Carrick couldn’t keep up.
Lastly, one can only feel for Berbatov. He was dying to come on, sitting on the steps rather than in the seats. Compare this to what Tevez did, I dare anyone to say they still prefer Tevez
@Fred: I thought I was the only one who had that reaction about Jones celebration.
@keano99:
I don’t think you can really fault Evra. He’s actually been very consistent throughout the year. Stat proves that. And for recent performances actually he was very very good against Stoke as far as I can recall.
Also it’s good to note that while Park 3 Lungs has been magnificent in terms of his stamina, you have to applaud Evra for being able to running back and forth for 90 minutes weekend weekout. No rest. That’s not easy. He made some mistakes today, Evra.. but his performance was quite decent in my opinion.
Kei – It’s ‘Week in, week out’
Anyway, what the fuck happened tonight? We just never got to grips with them and they exposed us for a lack of experience at this level. As much as I love Jones, his positional game needs to improve. I’d also love to see De Gea become a bit more authoritative in the box, by coming out for crosses and just generally being more vocal. I think that will come in time though.
This is the second European game and in both games Fergie has elected to not start Nani. Does anyone know why? He’s a match winner when he’s on the pitch and a game changer when he comes on. His delivery was exceptional tonight when he came on. He’s fast turning into one of my fave players at the moment. Love the guy.
Hopefully we can build on this and take heart that we didn’t lose and laugh at the fact that Citeh did. Sulky Tevez too. lol
Offensivly Evra is decent, but for over a year now he is so often out of position, not closing down. Not that what I’m used to see from him.
Has become a liability at times and the only reason he isn’t facing the bench is that he has no competition.
Guys, granted our mid and defence were off tonight. It is the first time that back four have played together.
But the kid Jones is 19 – how would you feel if you helped score a goal for the biggest Club in the world…let’s not forget his age,!!! There is no harm praising him a bit, none of us know what he is like, it is natural to be on a high where he is at right now, he will get the criticism too and I am sure SAF and senior players will let him know what he is doing wrong or getting carried away, but let’s remember that at least we have him here given the defensive crisis. Maybe him and Carrick should have swapped at some point to steady the defence a bit.
As for people criticising Rio – pls read previous thread, the guy held the defence together, with Carrick also stepping in, you cannot get a sense of that with just the camera, he cannot cover every position and Evra was not at fault at all for 2 of the goals we conceded. He also gave a lot in attack and has played almost every game.
Also, on the ongoing Michael Carrick debate that always arises on these pages, I thought he played very well tonight. He won some important challenges, his passing was precise and generally he was good at what he is asked to do – i.e sit in front of the back four, behind Anderson. However…
This is all good and well when we are winning the game, but when we are under the kosh, then this is the part of his game that is sadly lacking. He’s never gonna have that drive and determination of someone like Roy Keane, and I also think he isn’t fast enough to track players back. I hope we can mold Cleverley into that midfielder we have been crying out for for years, but time will tell.
I think that the cold Swiss shower will be of good service to our team.
It has highlighted the huge holes in our defence, where all four were serious failures, only DDG deserved a satisfactory mark..
Both CMs were of non-existence when Basel was freely passing near our box.
Valencia must’ve score on 2 occasions and missed, however his overall performance was quite acceptable.
Overall, I have an impression that we’ve started the season on very high adrenalin and now are facing natural consequences of playing-on-the-edge in first games. Our last four games just proved this point.
The good thing is that SAF has seen our shortcomings and, I’m sure will be able to fix the problems very quickly
NBI – Evra gave a lot in the attacks, but a defenders 1st duty is always to defend.
@ Zehl – I agree it was not the best defensive display and we were too attacking, I think we are also used to that at OT, which we may have to review now. But as people noted on other thread, with 5 in mid and one striker we should have handled their front two who were a handful and are not bad players at all.
But as someone said, a cold shower indeed. But let us also take all the positives, we have blooded a lot of young players, despite that we are still top of the league and Nani and Young have shone, to be honest, I would rather this rollercoaster than some of the duller games of last year wouldn’t you? At times our football has been astonishing. Our attack has been outstanding, even today. So a bit of a cold shower, mid-defensively, but a huge huge pat on the back as well.
As Ghandi put it: “consistency is the refuge of fools” (but not only fools) – United is a huge rollercoaster always in flux and that is part of what makes it great. Anyone expecting kids aged 19 and 20 odd to play like seasoned professionals and be consistent – not going to happen. Even Messi at that age had ups and downs. Lets also remember Ronaldo.
NBI – Absolutely right. Our midfield should have handled them, but neither ando nor carrick did really provide cover.
let’s see that we get the win against norwich and then hope that a few players come back during international football.
We didn’t draw tonight because our defenders pushed too far up the field. Please, one of the strongest thing about United is how far up the field we’re willing to push. We don’t change that based on one game. In the second half, for about 25 minutes, United sat on their lead. For the first goal, De Gea pulled off a good reaction ‘save’ but unfortunately it went out to frei and was easily slammed back in.
Even after that United continued to play casually, and ended up conceding an easy second goal. EVEN AFTER THAT, they seemed to have an attitude like, “We have this, we’ll score again”, until the penalty, THEN they kicked into gear a bit and the introduction of Nani made all the difference. Basel just sat back and defended, we pulled one back and were unlucky not to get a winner.
Tonight was mostly a problem of attitude.
There is one thing though I hope Fergie notices and ponders on. As much as I love Rio, tonight he tried to play the long ball too many times from the back. He lumped the ball up field when he should have been tapping it into the midfield or getting something started… then…when we were deep into injury time and desperately needed to get it up the field… he started tapping it around!!! Why??? All you have to do is look at the impact of the substitutions that were made defensively and to midfield for the Community Shield at half time and the impact that had… sorry but the younger defenders bring the midfielders into the game, they don’t play the long ball as much as Rio seems to these days. Tonight I think it hurt us. But the main problem was the attitude, they went out for the second half with a really poor attitude, while Basel came out smelling blood and got what was a VERY well deserved point.
But seriously, fuck that ref.. GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY!!
now Jones is arrogant. what a joke, and a little never fucking hurt does it. Playing well and adding a dimension to our game, confidence on the ball is immense. a couple of others should take note. Leave the lad alone. A mistake here and there is not so bad considering the difficulty of playing in that area of the pitch. He looks like he’ll learn, i say let him get on with it, nothing to curb only things to encourage
Can’t believe some lads here are having a go at Jones and calling him “cocky”. How fucking silly. I bet a couple of weeks ago, those very same people were calling him “confident”. He is 19, this was his first game at CL level, obviously he is gonna have the odd mistake here and there. the experience of this game will serve him the world of good. He will learn from it.
wheres the video of the goals against us?
@ Dela – you may have something there re attitude, but I also think it was a matter of time before we got spanked given how many shots at goal teams have had at us, in cases like Chelsea it was lucky they did not score, tonite we were punished for mid-defense lapses that our great attack and luck has covered up. We are just overrun in midfield too often and possession can be an issue. Sometimes we also rush too much and don’t control the game as we could.
@Giggsy.. lol yeah weekin weekout lol
I missed the match and just watched the highlights.
what i can say is that we played well in the 1st half but the defenders particularly switched off in the 2nd, leading to 3 avoidable goals (i know it’s obvious!).
Alex and Fabian Frei are impressive and I can see the latter moving to bigger club soon.
ABUs probably thought that we had an easy group and maybe some united players also thought the same which cause the complacency.
City lose to bayern but it’s their 1st CL season and away to bayern is never easy. (Don’t give a shit about them anyway)
We played at home and clearly basel is lesser team than bayern.
Sir Alex might want to get more serious in the lineup by playing 2 upfront and Nani must start because he’s our best player after Rooney and his cross got us the 3rd late goal.
We are a great team when our 1st choices play but when injuries happened to key players, others are struggling to perform.
Well, I hope Stoke and Basel lesson are enough for the players.
I expect a win at OT next match against Norwich.
Fuk it, just because your name is Rio, or Evra.. or if you are 19 years old, you can get away with giving excuses. That was a poor result from a poor performance. Criticism MUST be made! I am sure SAF will fire his dyer at full throttle in the morning. You are in Manchester United, not some blue nosed whore or brats from Highbury.
Utd Fans are great coz they always get behind the players, no matter what. Granted that losing is part of the game, but losing for playing poorly is not Utd’s standard. Playing at OT, there is never an excuse for mistakes.
Stop defending they players like this and stop accepting mediocrity!! Dont let this kind of mindset seep into the team!
How the heck did SAF managed to mould team after team with incredible success? By instilling the mindset of champions, of winning and of never losing esp of poor performance.
Defending and midfield were SHITE. Accept it. Carrick must go. Yes he does his job, but replace him with a pole, it’ll do just as good a job. Rio is too old and not fit. Let him gain fitness first before letting him play. At the rate he’s playing, we’re better off with Fryer on the CB rather than this old git misfiring long balls all over the field, like trying to prove something to the young CB. Trying to get an assist and feel important again. Fuk off, we know Rio has that ego problem, and if he isn’t in Utd, we’d probably be making fun of him like we do Terry. Jones need a kicking for trying to do more than what he’s suppose to do good first. Evra is tired, need a rest. Ando tired too.
Hate me all you want but these players must be taught a lesson, no matter how great a player they are. Fuk off mediocrity.
Evans has been missed the last 2 games.
izzy – you’re way out of line with those comments, mate. Haven’t you heard? There was nothing wrong with our defence tonight. What’s more, you’d better not say a word against young Phil Jones – he is infallable…
http://felixsim.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/PDHeadInSand.gif
We had that wake up call coming. Glad it was a draw and not a loss.
Looking at goal differential, we are even and both Basle and Benfica are +1. Winning the group is extremely doable and still very much control our fate.
We will never win the CL again until Fergie strengthens the midfield.I’m losing patience with anderson.his back to his old self
Hahaha – for some reason, I can’t stop laughing about the game yesterday. That was quality, really hilarious, and for the neutral fan watching a late night match, a great piece of entertainment.
Just to show that I am not a completely hardhearted bastard, I thought Carrick had a very good first half yesterday. That’s the carrick I want to see week in-week out, consistently against top opposition. The second half was, well, amusing
Good morning.
Bad result at the right time if we can call it like that. Remember CSKA couple of years ago.
As for @Fred and clowns thing. You know, Luis Nani used to be poor. All the credit to the ones that believed in him till the end but he still isn’t on top of the list of my favorite players even though he is so effective these days as well as being our savior throughout the last season.
Your identity may not be known by your fellow supporters but you should know, whoever you are, there is an extent you can go proving yourself foolish with stupid comments.
Quality goal the 2nd one. Danny was one of the very few (along with Carrick and Nani) that did their job out there like they were supposed to.
No one wants to see Jones fail obviously, but those saying that those driving runs are starting to get to his head aren’t wrong either. Rio didn’t have a good game, but it’s not easy when the other 3 defenders tend to go forward as much as Fabio, Evra and Jones do. And we were up against 2 strikers last night. What a mess. But like I said last night, that’s all in Fergie’s lap. He’s the one that has to pull their ear and limit the amount of times they leave their positions. We won’t win any major honors just by attacking.
It was like watching a movie titled “The Importance of being Vidic”
Not in the mood scapegoating, so have to say that many of the post match comments were outrageously kneejerk. Surprised to see that people think Valencia had an off day. I thought the only players who had an off day were the defenders.
we are missing smtin here. Carrick was grt in the match d goals were the fault of fERDINARD d defence was crap for HEAVEN’S SAKE against stoke he allowed Crouch 2 chest d ball in front n shot if nt bcos the cock sucker was nt a gud strike we wud ve lost dat game.
quality goals, but mediocre defending, mostly by Fabio, as his opponent was getting too easily past him, but the others as well not blameless. SAF needs to work on these issues soon, as sloppiness is creeping in and could be costly in the games coming up. 3rd in the group already, need to improve to win and finish top, else face a surprise early exit IMHO
Sad to see how we depend on Rooney to be creative, Giggsy did a brilliant job in the first half, but faded a bit in the second, as could be expected as he is not in his youth anymore.
Welbeck did good, and he will get better with the chances his getting.
Evra and Fabio did terrible, Evra was out of place again and again, of course the attacking part was good from him, but should prioritize better!
When it comes to midfield, I must admit, I have been and I am one of the Michael Carrick slayers. He was a great buy back in 2008, and had a couple of massive seasons for us, but he is not even close to the force he used to be. Ando seems to play badly alongside him to, as I think that Ando needs a more creative midfielder alongside him, as he seemed to click together with Cleverly!
And the defence……Nemanja…..we miss you!!!
Sad to see how we depend on Rooney to be creative, Giggsy did a brilliant job in the first half, but faded a bit in the second, as could be expected as he is not in his youth anymore.
Welbeck did good, and he will get better with the chances his getting.
Evra and Fabio did terrible, Evra was out of place again and again, of course the attacking part was good from him, but should prioritize better!
When it comes to midfield, I must admit, I have been and I am one of the Michael Carrick slayers. He was a great buy back in 2008, and had a couple of massive seasons for us, but he is not even close to the force he used to be. Ando seems to play badly alongside him to, as I think that Ando needs a more creative midfielder alongside him, as he seemed to click together with Cleverly!
And the defence……Nemanja…..we miss you!!!
Imo the striker situation has confused even Sir Alex himself. We know who his first 3 choices are, but maybe he doesn’t know how to use the other 4 to the best of their capabilities. i.e. last night Owen might have been a better option for the last 10 minutes. He’s an impact sub. Berbatov hasn’t shown that he can become one.
On Topic – I don’t think anyone has pointed it out, but where is Young’s goal?
StR, why only publish Welbeck’s goal and not Ashley’s?
All I know is that the defence has to be sorted out. Evra, Ando, Rio all have to step up. Jones and Fabio have to be reminded of their primary responsibilities, that is , defending. Well done to Giggsy and Danny..
When Pogba was drafted into the first team pool I said if he was 80% of the player Scholes was I would concede our midfield problem is behind us.Well Pogba has not been seen and I now revert back to my original stance,we are substantially weaker in midfield this season than last and I can now look forward to another year of tortuous away games where the team is swamped by the opposition.Just hope our home form carries us through.
Poor performance on the night but we got away with it and a point earned. It will be a great learning curve and bring in some realism that I think will serve our younger players well.
The only really perofrmance of the night was our fans! I walked away in disgust last night we just dont get behind our teaam enough its fucking embarrassing. Fans turn up in full voice for City, pool, Chels etc but in less fashionable affairs we just go misisng.
Embarrasing
I wonder if all this about the defenders going forward and making dashes forward is causing us to be careless and not falling back in time…Vidic and Rio would go forward only for set pieces. I think in European matches and against tougher opponents we should be more grounded and solid at the back. I know it’s good to see those runs from Jones which also resulted in two goals for Rooney but that’s not of much use if we are leaky at the back. Last season we only conceded one goal in the Champions league group stages but this time we’ve conceded 4 already and there’s 4 more games to go. Hope SAF sorts this out quickly although with the defensive injury crisis it’s going to be tough. However in these few past disappointing matches Nani and De Gea especially prove that we have a lot more to offer as a team and No. 20 is well within our reach. As for Europe i was hoping cleverley would play the group stages and then we would know where we stand in midfield amongst Europe’s elite by January before the Knock out stages. .Hope i’m making sense here.anybody else agrees with this?
PS thank fuck for Nani, doesnt get the crdit he derserves he is genuinely world class
rightly said there..Nani is the one who steps up when required and it’s exciting to see what happens when he has the ball..i remember against stoke he was up against their man and ran around him from the right.watching the replay made it look like he just broke free of the chains bounding him and raced towards the ball…
Anyone even thinking of dragging Carrick into the fallout from yesterday’s shambles needs a fucking slap. He was our best player behind Welbeck. 97% pass completion anyone? In Europe, you need calmness and the ability to keep the ball. Carrick displayed these in abundance.
It may not be fashionable to say so, cos he’s a ‘fan favourite’ and we’re all supposed to love him, but Evra had a stinker yesterday. Again. I’m sick of seeing teams counterattacking and our left CB getting sucked towards the ball because Evra’s casually jogging back from the centre circle. Their RW had time to take a dump – if he’d wanted to – before delivering that cross for their headed goal. Where was Evra?!
Bad nights also for Rio, who looked nervy and unfit, and Jones, who finally showed his age.
And when will our defenders stop getting injured?! Another late, cynical challenge, another defender hobbling off. Fabio would never have ‘felled’ the Basel striker the way Tony V did, though I still think it was an iffy decision from the ref, who – along with the linesmen – looked like he wouldn’t be out of place reffing my Sunday league game this weekend.
Giggs12Gerrard0
Our away fans are the best in the land mate but all those fans are usually split up around OT. You’ve got the day trippers, the moody pricks who tell you to sit down and sometimes the “theatre” type atmosphere where people sit and expect to be entertained…
Post match Graphical Analysis of our defensive frailties .. http://bit.ly/rmRpl9
”Why didn’t Fergie take him? Fergie (Sir Alex Ferguson) is the oldest fox in the business and he must have seen something he didn’t like in him,” – Graeme Souness on Carlos Tevez.
Never doubt Sir Alex Ferguson! That is one of the reasons why I have no problem with the Glazers. If Fergie says it is fine, it is fine!
Good Afternoon all. Special mention to @Cedars, @Balaji, @Willie @smartalex
. Haven’t been able to post much. Been pretty busy. Be back after sometime. Can’t wait to get back in here. Keep the red spirits up all especially after yesterday’s match! The only good thing about it was Welbeck, Nani and Carrick. I mean so much for my prediction (5-0 
). I want to see Cleverley back ASAP!
Sloppy day at the office and we took them for granted and an easy three points – that is why we should have gone to Benefica and played our game and won. Stop this pussy footing away from home and beat them, make then scared of us
I may get stick for this, if so so be it. The problem with yesterday was Andersson. Ive discovered his flaw and its a bad one and easily readable by opposing coaches. The boy is a follower. You play him in midfield with Cleverly and he will be “like Cleverly” tucked up along side him. Its fantastic when knocking the ball about just infront oif their back 4 and makes for attractive attacking football BUT it was clear that that couldnt go on forever as teams would soon work that out. Carrick plays with Andersson and he sits back and fails to push forwards. He seems to be in the way and when Carrick pushes forward in an attempt to drive things Anderson steps up with him. Ive seen Andersson purposely look at Carrick and hold an imaginary line with him. In my knowledge of the game that is something for the two defence pairings to do and the striker with the offside trap. The midfielders are supposed to be a little bit more industrious. It seems that Anderson is not confident of his abilities even though he may strut about as if he’s the big cheese. He needs someone to kick him in the cunt and tell him to go out and enjoy his football. Success brings the enjoyment and you’ll work out what brings that success. Stop trying too hard.
Ive often criticised DeGea and rightly so but to be fair he was outstanding yesterday. Their first goal came from and outstanding save that “maybe” was spilled into the most dangerous area but to be far originally came at him like a bloody cannon ball. The second he actually got a hand to which I thought was fucking splendid in a goal reminiscent of Ferdis fucking lapse against Messi in the champions league final of two years back. The penalty was a penalty. We mustn’t beat ourselves up over this as we played some great football but were up against a really experienced potent striker who inspires the rest of his team. Occassionally a minow country will produce a top forward and Frei is one as was Chapusat (spelling) before him for switzerland.
We fought back and showed spirit as Basel crumbled after their third goal knowing what was about to come to them. We play Basel 5 times and even after yesterdays result we all know we would win 4 of them.
And what about the Damn Ref who kept getting in the way when we were near their box..SOB blocked a Good shot for Park..I wanted to kick him in the face..but being thousand of miles away i had to be satisfied with a punch to the wall and now pain in my fingers while typing..
@Kanchelskis
Corerct mate I had a objective rant with my old man who said he was shite. I though Carrick was our best player over 90.
@kanchelskis
Spot on about Carrick. Just look at Basle’s 2nd goal and notice whether Carrick or Jones are closer to Rio. He was becoming Rio’s partner on quite a few occasions. There lies the problem imo. Jones has done enought to prove his talent, but imo it’s time Fergie grounded him and reminded him what his priorities are. And the same goes for Fabio and Evra.
@Costas
Yep. Paul Hayward in the Guardian has a piece on Jones today, basically saying the same thing. He needs to know when to sit tight. It’s great that we have a CB who’s comfortable on the ball and can bring it forward, like the Rio of years gone by. but he needs to be careful playing alongside such attacking FBs such as Fabio and Evra. They can’t all be bombing on all the time.
Never thought I would say this but I actually find my self admiring Souness as a pundit…. Great player in his day and if ever there was a player that should be labelled ‘hard as nails’ than its him…
As a pundit though he seems to always make sense, saying it like it is regardless.
Just in case you’re reading this Graeme, I still hate you for your Liverpool days!
Always been crap at post match analysis as it were, I just enjoy a game and move on. Last night’s match was very entertaining and I loved every minute of it…. Frei’s goal celebrations were classic
“PS thank fuck for Nani, doesnt get the crdit he derserves he is genuinely world class”
He needs to play in the biggest European ties. We’ve dropped some of our best technical players in the last few finals (Scholes, Nani, Berbatov) when we needed far more quality than we had.
Park has started 2 finals, Nani 0.
Carrick has started 3 finals, Scholes 1.
You need to keep the ball at this level. You need to be able to use the ball at this level. As long as we drop some of our most gifted players we’ll struggle to win this competition.
Has any player at united been humiliated the way berbatov has?? I am actually surprised that berbatov has not asked for a move,he is a great player and deserves to play more than what he does for united.
Also i love evra but he has been poor for almost a year and a half now,in a 4-4-2 you need your fullbacks to be defensively solid,evra has left our centrebacks exposed far too often(barcelona).
When we get all our defenders back, I’d give our Paddy a few weeks off. IMO, he’s taken his place for granted. If you go back to when Heinze was at the club. Evra seemed to love that battle, which he ended up winning, as Gabby was sold on, because of Paddy’s form. He needs someone challenging him. Far too many teams are targetting his side. I believe teams see him as our weak link in defense. Of course, some fans will focus on younger players. Jones and Evans will be the scape goats. That would be folly. The old players need to be talking to the likes of Jones and Fabio. If they are caught up the pitch, Rio should be telling them, to get back into position. A lack of communication on the pitch was evident. One thing about United you can never fault. Our desire to get back into the game. We salvaged a draw, and possibly could of won it, with Danny’s header.
WillieRedNut
Totally agree re Paddy. In fact, Evans has been so improved this season, that perhaps he should take the LB slot for a bit, if we get our CBs back. A back 4 of Smalling-Vidic-Jones-Evans looks good to me. Solid, powerful and a decent combo of attack/defence minded players.
WillieRedNut – Totally agree re evra. Imo the only reason he has not faces the bench yet is the lack of competition at his position.
Fabio and Rafa are still injurie-prone. Maybe time to promote Zeki?
Anyone else got Laurent Blanc flashbacks from 10 years ago while watching Rio last night? Nof that those around him provided enough cover mind you..
Kanchelskis Zelh
My old man called Evra’s inconsistent form a while ago. I didn’t really see it, until this last season. He’s looked out of sorts. I think back to the 07/08 and 08/09 seasons. He was class. Whether it’s not enough protection from the midfield, or something else, I don’t know. One thing I do know, is competition for his place, wouldn’t hurt.
Rio Blanc?
Willie
Fryers is a LB but too young to give competition to our current captain
Ancha – I didn’t mention Fryers mate. Agree though. Too early yet, for the lad.
Fred I cannot see for the life of me why you have to turn Welbeck’s goals into a unneccesary dig at Michael Owen. OK Welbeck scored two goals last night Owen scored two against Leeds Utd. In terms of defending I do not think Basle were any better than Leeds. As for Berba actually I would have brought Owen instead of Berba as Owen is in better form. However Fergie will not do this as he paid 30 million for Berba where as he paid nothing for Owen. Personally I firmly beieve this should be judged on current form rather than what was paid for them. I am in no way saying Berba is useless as I know he is not but on current form Owen is the better choice. Also as Owen has just as much a right to be at the club as Welbeck cut out the stupid comments. As a united fan you should back all of the players and as neither Owen, Welbeck or Berba have said anything against the club you have no reason to abuse either of them.
Actually, I am getting a bit frustrated (I’m sure so are they) with the twins’ injuries. I just adore them as players, but they keep breaking my heart after every 60 min of gametime
Come on Denise, are you Owen’s sister/aunt?
I haven’t seen such composure since Andy Cole was in his prime.
@willie
Or maybe Owen himself.
Sir Alex Ferguson and terms and quotes attributed to him have carved a niche for themselves in the modern game. THT looks at those famous Fergie-isms and tracks back their origin, definition and the anecdotes associated with them…
http://www.thehardtackle.com/2011/manchester-united%e2%80%99s-corner-sir-alex-ferguson-great-scot/
Maybe to tighten it up we should swap Jones and Smalling. I think Jones is a better right back than Smalling anyway…in that he’s a more complete player, drives forward more (and already has a couple of assists from there).
Smalling has done a good job at RB, but I see him as a more positionally mature centre back than Jones (probably coz he has a years experience head start).
Smalling alongside Rio/Vida/Evans at centre back….and Jones at full back, which is a more natural position for him to bomb on from
As for the striking issue….I think Berba is the player to bring out when we want to close out a game (as seen by his excellent cameo vs Chelsea a couple of weeks ago). Owen is the one to bring on when you’re chasing a goal, as Fergie said- he’s always got a goal in him.
So personally, I would’ve expected Owen to come on instead…..but that would’ve been a real body blow to Berba’s confidence tbh. In any case, perhaps Fergie wanted extra height in the area/composure on the ball, which is why he turned to Berba.
Sparkz – Thought the same about Smalling. He’s more natural CH. Jones loves to get forward, so maybe they could switch?
@Costas
I missed this game, so I can’t comment on what happened on the field much. However in the context of the season I would say that if we’re going to have a defensive shocker, the sort of wake up call that we’ve needed for ages, then I can’t think of a better time to have it. Namely in a Champions League game in a group we ought to still win (don’t mind if we don’t, I fear no one in Europe).
The defenders and midfielders too, whose responsibility it is to protect the goal, have been lucky. Lucky against Chelsea. Lucky against Stoke (though that ‘luck’ was more the brilliance of DDG). They needed to get shaken. They needed to wake up. Conceding three like this ought to do that. That we scored three and swiped a point is a silver lining, it means we don’t have a crisis, but Fergie will still be able to address the defence as if we had just lost.
We shouldn’t panic if some slightly odd things happen in games like this. Fergie is the maestro, he knows where he can experiment. He will take risks in these matches because he knows they are safe. Expect the next team to play us in the league to face some harsh reality.
Meanwhile how long til we get Vidic back?
I really love the attitude of welbeck.I know its his early days but the lad could be a star player for us and england if used properly.He is improving in each game and is becoming stronger.If he just stays injury free then he could score more than 20 goals for us this season.
Does anyone know how it feels working for a bank located in the middle of Basle in Switzerland? Everybody is takin the piss off me.. but never mind, I keep walkin tall, and proud to be a United supporter! On Dec. 7th in Basle we’ll murder them on the pitch
We’ll be BACK, MUFC for LIFE!
Shit performance to concede 3 goals in a row. Goes without saying. But Welbeck scoring two goals in Europe is a big plus. Carrick had a good game, Valencia and Young played well. Ando played better than his last performance. Giggs was pure class. Nani showed his quality. The back four did just enough for the first half. At 2-0 it was a solid result, despite what Basel created.
Fuck knows what happened second half, but like Alex said its better to have this shock now in September. Bottom line how I see it, if we’re so “shit” then how did we show enough character to equalise and even miss a chance to win it? I don’t even blame Berbatov for shooting and not passing at the end, it was that type of game. Basel are champions over a season after all.
So once you finish ranting about how “shit” we were, 3-3 was actually a decent result All things considered. If you lose a 2 goal lead with 3 goals in a row you don’t deserve all the points. Big wake up call for the squad, and we’ll be going out to win our remaining games, so no need for alarm over midfield imo. The possession we lost was down to errors on the night. Carrick again played well in his role, Giggs had a brilliant first half and tired, and Ando’s performance improved from Stoke (which wasn’t exactly worth losing sleep over imo.)
Eitherway, we’ve had our best start in years so we can’t be THAT shit can we? Especially when a cm from our best starting 11 is out injured. Cleverly is like Welbeck right now, he’s ready for first team football, and Ando plays his best when he’s on the pitch. Having Tom out is a big deal, so until he’s back and Fletchers fit, grinding out draws when we could lose isn’t exactly that bad for September imo.
The race is not for the swift but for who can endure it !
I think part of the “problem” with our backs generally, including Evra (but not Rio and Vida) is how far forward they get, and how often they go there. In the last few years, we have become used to our fullbacks attacking, though JOS and GNev did this less than the Twins or Evra. Now, Jones and Smalling are it too — even when playing from the center-half position. I know Evra has always done this, but previously, it was mostly him and maybe one of the Twins. Now, most of the back four are at it, which leaves a lot of gaps and “space” for other teams to exploit. Exploiting the space behind Evra is easier and more rewarding now, given the mobility of our other defenders, which makes Evra look worse.
When defenders spend so much time going so far forward, it is bound to leave us more vulnerable at the back. It’s a trade-off: you gain a significant attacking edge (no one can deny that!), but you become less effective in defence.
It will be interesting to see how SAF approaches this.
A decent team could expose the space we’re leaving. A top team will carve us open, and punish us. Never mind Barcelona, any top side in Europe. While TC has provided a freshness, we’ve still been open, when he’s played. Someone will have to take responsibility to do the dirty side of the game. And that’s mopping up at the back. Holding their position. Giving the back 5 a break from the constant onslaught. Back down to earth with a bump is right. Not easy for the younger lads. This is Manchester United. Ups and downs, is the way we do. The boss will be having a quiet word, with a few. We’ll get it right, though.
Willierednut and Costas for your information I am no relation of Owen but I do and always will beieve in fair play. Please tell me how is it fair play to snipe at a player and rubbish him simply because you do not accept him. Tell me are we not all Man Utd supporters? Surely that means we give every player connected with the club a fair deal. I am sorry but Fred simply was not being fair. I have nothing against Welbeck I have no reason to. However I do not see how you can make sweeping statements suggesting that any player is useless simply on the back of one game. Particularly as Stoke and Basle are two totally different teams. Also Costas you said yourself Owen would have been a better option than Berba so why are you insulting my comments which if you read them tally with your own. Personally I cannot understand Fergie’s treatment of Owen as he says one thing then does the opposite. Is it too much to ask him to be consistent? As he has stated frequently that if you are chasing the game and need a goal Owen is the one to call on. That being the case were we not chasing the game last night at 3-2 down with ten minutes to play yet Fergie sends on Berba a player very short of form and confidence. I think we were very fortunate to get anything out of last night as it is we are a poor third in our group and if we do not improve we will be out of the Champions League. If this was to happen Fergie has to accept his share of then responsibility.
I was really pleased to hear the roar of the OT faithful when Nani subbed on. He has truly become a fan favorite and long may his United playing days continue. Hopefully he will become an OT legend.
Denise – I went back and checked Fred’s post about Owen. Nothing there, I would declare as being over critical. You seem to love Owen, so maybe a touch precious, on your part? Every fan has their favourite player. No problem with that. Maybe you should read Fred’s post again. I found nothing wrong with it. He give an opinion. That’s what we’re all here for.
Saad – that was a good touch from the faithful, and you could tell he appreciated it.
Willierednut – well said 15:15.
Some players should never play for certain clubs I.2 gerrard for united, neville for liverpool, shearer for Sunderland etc I consider michael owen in this bracket the same way I could never support that sheep shagging cunt Alan Smith either! That said how ever Owen has really changed my opinion on players with rival pasts! The guy has been a complete professional and contrary what is reported took a lot less money to play for us! I don’t really rate him these days for his all round game but Jesus the lad can score goals! It’s great to have Si many options and they will all play a pivotal role this season! We should be thankful we have players like berba and owen who love to play for United look at the blue nose bitters today with that rat Tevez even saying Fergie was right all along!
There’s a number of things going on. Firstly Cleverley was missing and
he plays a crucial part in the centre midfield. Look at the second half when he came on against Man City when he took Carrick off. Look at him against west brom, spurs , arsenal and Bolton. He keeps the ball and possession is king. Other teams can’t hurt you if they haven’t got the ball. Plus he changed the rhythm and tempo United played at.
There’s an interesting graphic on ESPN/champions league about average playing positions. I compared United’s with Barcelona and what struck me was that in the oppositions half we had about one or two players close to the 12.yard box. Whereas Barca had 6 places between the oppositions half. and their 12 yard box. Yet they only hadl3 defenders in their own half. Whereas we had about 4-7 whilst
Welbect played really well.
Willierednut I have read Fred’s post and he clearly infers that Owen has no right to be selected ahead of Welbeck. Bearing in mind we had all this a few months ago when Owen was selected as a substitute against Barca ahead of Berba I would qustion why this dislike of Owen. Owen has never criticised the club or the fans yet it seems to me there are certain people that refuse to accept him here. Personally I am sick of football fans dislike of certain players usually based on what they read in the press. Owen has never had fair treatment from the press. The Daily Mirror for example has had a vendetta against him for years simply due to the chief editor being best friends with Robbie Fowler who has been insanely jealous of Owen for many years. In fact that is why Fowler was kicked out of the England squad as explained by Sven Goran Eriksson in his book. In fact this same paper wrote an article encouraging people to stamp on Owen’s grave after his death. I am sure you would not agree to those comments. Sadly though people do read this rubbish and would do that kind of thing.