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VIDEO: Welbeck and Young Goals vs Basle

szólj hozzá: Mu 1-0 Bsl

szólj hozzá: Mu 2-0 Bsl

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. Gerriered says:

    All I know is that the defence has to be sorted out. Evra, Ando, Rio all have to step up. Jones and Fabio have to be reminded of their primary responsibilities, that is , defending. Well done to Giggsy and Danny..

  2. parryheid says:

    When Pogba was drafted into the first team pool I said if he was 80% of the player Scholes was I would concede our midfield problem is behind us.Well Pogba has not been seen and I now revert back to my original stance,we are substantially weaker in midfield this season than last and I can now look forward to another year of tortuous away games where the team is swamped by the opposition.Just hope our home form carries us through.

  3. giggs12gerrard0 says:

    Poor performance on the night but we got away with it and a point earned. It will be a great learning curve and bring in some realism that I think will serve our younger players well.

    The only really perofrmance of the night was our fans! I walked away in disgust last night we just dont get behind our teaam enough its fucking embarrassing. Fans turn up in full voice for City, pool, Chels etc but in less fashionable affairs we just go misisng.


  4. leaxan says:

    I wonder if all this about the defenders going forward and making dashes forward is causing us to be careless and not falling back in time…Vidic and Rio would go forward only for set pieces. I think in European matches and against tougher opponents we should be more grounded and solid at the back. I know it’s good to see those runs from Jones which also resulted in two goals for Rooney but that’s not of much use if we are leaky at the back. Last season we only conceded one goal in the Champions league group stages but this time we’ve conceded 4 already and there’s 4 more games to go. Hope SAF sorts this out quickly although with the defensive injury crisis it’s going to be tough. However in these few past disappointing matches Nani and De Gea especially prove that we have a lot more to offer as a team and No. 20 is well within our reach. As for Europe i was hoping cleverley would play the group stages and then we would know where we stand in midfield amongst Europe’s elite by January before the Knock out stages. .Hope i’m making sense here.anybody else agrees with this?

  5. giggs12gerrard0 says:

    PS thank fuck for Nani, doesnt get the crdit he derserves he is genuinely world class

  6. leaxan says:

    rightly said there..Nani is the one who steps up when required and it’s exciting to see what happens when he has the ball..i remember against stoke he was up against their man and ran around him from the right.watching the replay made it look like he just broke free of the chains bounding him and raced towards the ball…

  7. kanchelskis says:

    Anyone even thinking of dragging Carrick into the fallout from yesterday’s shambles needs a fucking slap. He was our best player behind Welbeck. 97% pass completion anyone? In Europe, you need calmness and the ability to keep the ball. Carrick displayed these in abundance.

    It may not be fashionable to say so, cos he’s a ‘fan favourite’ and we’re all supposed to love him, but Evra had a stinker yesterday. Again. I’m sick of seeing teams counterattacking and our left CB getting sucked towards the ball because Evra’s casually jogging back from the centre circle. Their RW had time to take a dump – if he’d wanted to – before delivering that cross for their headed goal. Where was Evra?!

    Bad nights also for Rio, who looked nervy and unfit, and Jones, who finally showed his age.

    And when will our defenders stop getting injured?! Another late, cynical challenge, another defender hobbling off. Fabio would never have ‘felled’ the Basel striker the way Tony V did, though I still think it was an iffy decision from the ref, who – along with the linesmen – looked like he wouldn’t be out of place reffing my Sunday league game this weekend.

  8. Rai says:


    Our away fans are the best in the land mate but all those fans are usually split up around OT. You’ve got the day trippers, the moody pricks who tell you to sit down and sometimes the “theatre” type atmosphere where people sit and expect to be entertained…

  9. parth312 says:

    Post match Graphical Analysis of our defensive frailties ..

  10. RedManWalking says:

    ‎”Why didn’t Fergie take him? Fergie (Sir Alex Ferguson) is the oldest fox in the business and he must have seen something he didn’t like in him,” – Graeme Souness on Carlos Tevez.

    Never doubt Sir Alex Ferguson! That is one of the reasons why I have no problem with the Glazers. If Fergie says it is fine, it is fine!

    Good Afternoon all. Special mention to @Cedars, @Balaji, @Willie @smartalex ;-) . Haven’t been able to post much. Been pretty busy. Be back after sometime. Can’t wait to get back in here. Keep the red spirits up all especially after yesterday’s match! The only good thing about it was Welbeck, Nani and Carrick. I mean so much for my prediction (5-0 :cry: ). I want to see Cleverley back ASAP!

  11. Little Red Ant says:

    Sloppy day at the office and we took them for granted and an easy three points – that is why we should have gone to Benefica and played our game and won. Stop this pussy footing away from home and beat them, make then scared of us

  12. GoatinaUnitedShirt says:

    I may get stick for this, if so so be it. The problem with yesterday was Andersson. Ive discovered his flaw and its a bad one and easily readable by opposing coaches. The boy is a follower. You play him in midfield with Cleverly and he will be “like Cleverly” tucked up along side him. Its fantastic when knocking the ball about just infront oif their back 4 and makes for attractive attacking football BUT it was clear that that couldnt go on forever as teams would soon work that out. Carrick plays with Andersson and he sits back and fails to push forwards. He seems to be in the way and when Carrick pushes forward in an attempt to drive things Anderson steps up with him. Ive seen Andersson purposely look at Carrick and hold an imaginary line with him. In my knowledge of the game that is something for the two defence pairings to do and the striker with the offside trap. The midfielders are supposed to be a little bit more industrious. It seems that Anderson is not confident of his abilities even though he may strut about as if he’s the big cheese. He needs someone to kick him in the cunt and tell him to go out and enjoy his football. Success brings the enjoyment and you’ll work out what brings that success. Stop trying too hard.

    Ive often criticised DeGea and rightly so but to be fair he was outstanding yesterday. Their first goal came from and outstanding save that “maybe” was spilled into the most dangerous area but to be far originally came at him like a bloody cannon ball. The second he actually got a hand to which I thought was fucking splendid in a goal reminiscent of Ferdis fucking lapse against Messi in the champions league final of two years back. The penalty was a penalty. We mustn’t beat ourselves up over this as we played some great football but were up against a really experienced potent striker who inspires the rest of his team. Occassionally a minow country will produce a top forward and Frei is one as was Chapusat (spelling) before him for switzerland.

    We fought back and showed spirit as Basel crumbled after their third goal knowing what was about to come to them. We play Basel 5 times and even after yesterdays result we all know we would win 4 of them.

  13. leaxan says:

    And what about the Damn Ref who kept getting in the way when we were near their box..SOB blocked a Good shot for Park..I wanted to kick him in the face..but being thousand of miles away i had to be satisfied with a punch to the wall and now pain in my fingers while typing..

  14. giggs12gerrard0 says:


    Corerct mate I had a objective rant with my old man who said he was shite. I though Carrick was our best player over 90.

  15. Costas says:


    Spot on about Carrick. Just look at Basle’s 2nd goal and notice whether Carrick or Jones are closer to Rio. He was becoming Rio’s partner on quite a few occasions. There lies the problem imo. Jones has done enought to prove his talent, but imo it’s time Fergie grounded him and reminded him what his priorities are. And the same goes for Fabio and Evra.

  16. kanchelskis says:


    Yep. Paul Hayward in the Guardian has a piece on Jones today, basically saying the same thing. He needs to know when to sit tight. It’s great that we have a CB who’s comfortable on the ball and can bring it forward, like the Rio of years gone by. but he needs to be careful playing alongside such attacking FBs such as Fabio and Evra. They can’t all be bombing on all the time.

  17. CedarsDevil says:

    Never thought I would say this but I actually find my self admiring Souness as a pundit…. Great player in his day and if ever there was a player that should be labelled ‘hard as nails’ than its him…

    As a pundit though he seems to always make sense, saying it like it is regardless.

    Just in case you’re reading this Graeme, I still hate you for your Liverpool days! :-)

  18. CedarsDevil says:

    Always been crap at post match analysis as it were, I just enjoy a game and move on. Last night’s match was very entertaining and I loved every minute of it…. Frei’s goal celebrations were classic

  19. ahjs says:

    “PS thank fuck for Nani, doesnt get the crdit he derserves he is genuinely world class”

    He needs to play in the biggest European ties. We’ve dropped some of our best technical players in the last few finals (Scholes, Nani, Berbatov) when we needed far more quality than we had.

    Park has started 2 finals, Nani 0.
    Carrick has started 3 finals, Scholes 1.

    You need to keep the ball at this level. You need to be able to use the ball at this level. As long as we drop some of our most gifted players we’ll struggle to win this competition.

  20. sidhant says:

    Has any player at united been humiliated the way berbatov has?? I am actually surprised that berbatov has not asked for a move,he is a great player and deserves to play more than what he does for united.
    Also i love evra but he has been poor for almost a year and a half now,in a 4-4-2 you need your fullbacks to be defensively solid,evra has left our centrebacks exposed far too often(barcelona).

  21. WillieRedNut says:

    When we get all our defenders back, I’d give our Paddy a few weeks off. IMO, he’s taken his place for granted. If you go back to when Heinze was at the club. Evra seemed to love that battle, which he ended up winning, as Gabby was sold on, because of Paddy’s form. He needs someone challenging him. Far too many teams are targetting his side. I believe teams see him as our weak link in defense. Of course, some fans will focus on younger players. Jones and Evans will be the scape goats. That would be folly. The old players need to be talking to the likes of Jones and Fabio. If they are caught up the pitch, Rio should be telling them, to get back into position. A lack of communication on the pitch was evident. One thing about United you can never fault. Our desire to get back into the game. We salvaged a draw, and possibly could of won it, with Danny’s header.

  22. kanchelskis says:


    Totally agree re Paddy. In fact, Evans has been so improved this season, that perhaps he should take the LB slot for a bit, if we get our CBs back. A back 4 of Smalling-Vidic-Jones-Evans looks good to me. Solid, powerful and a decent combo of attack/defence minded players.

  23. Zelh says:

    WillieRedNut – Totally agree re evra. Imo the only reason he has not faces the bench yet is the lack of competition at his position.
    Fabio and Rafa are still injurie-prone. Maybe time to promote Zeki?

  24. Costas says:

    Anyone else got Laurent Blanc flashbacks from 10 years ago while watching Rio last night? Nof that those around him provided enough cover mind you..

  25. WillieRedNut says:

    Kanchelskis Zelh

    My old man called Evra’s inconsistent form a while ago. I didn’t really see it, until this last season. He’s looked out of sorts. I think back to the 07/08 and 08/09 seasons. He was class. Whether it’s not enough protection from the midfield, or something else, I don’t know. One thing I do know, is competition for his place, wouldn’t hurt.

  26. WillieRedNut says:

    Rio Blanc? ;)

  27. Ancha says:


    Fryers is a LB but too young to give competition to our current captain

  28. WillieRedNut says:

    Ancha – I didn’t mention Fryers mate. Agree though. Too early yet, for the lad.

  29. Denise Williams says:

    Fred I cannot see for the life of me why you have to turn Welbeck’s goals into a unneccesary dig at Michael Owen. OK Welbeck scored two goals last night Owen scored two against Leeds Utd. In terms of defending I do not think Basle were any better than Leeds. As for Berba actually I would have brought Owen instead of Berba as Owen is in better form. However Fergie will not do this as he paid 30 million for Berba where as he paid nothing for Owen. Personally I firmly beieve this should be judged on current form rather than what was paid for them. I am in no way saying Berba is useless as I know he is not but on current form Owen is the better choice. Also as Owen has just as much a right to be at the club as Welbeck cut out the stupid comments. As a united fan you should back all of the players and as neither Owen, Welbeck or Berba have said anything against the club you have no reason to abuse either of them.

  30. Jeet says:

    Actually, I am getting a bit frustrated (I’m sure so are they) with the twins’ injuries. I just adore them as players, but they keep breaking my heart after every 60 min of gametime :(

  31. WillieRedNut says:

    Come on Denise, are you Owen’s sister/aunt? :)

  32. Jordan Moore says:

    I haven’t seen such composure since Andy Cole was in his prime.

  33. Costas says:


    Or maybe Owen himself. :lol:

  34. indiandevil says:

    Sir Alex Ferguson and terms and quotes attributed to him have carved a niche for themselves in the modern game. THT looks at those famous Fergie-isms and tracks back their origin, definition and the anecdotes associated with them…

  35. Sparkz says:

    Maybe to tighten it up we should swap Jones and Smalling. I think Jones is a better right back than Smalling anyway…in that he’s a more complete player, drives forward more (and already has a couple of assists from there).

    Smalling has done a good job at RB, but I see him as a more positionally mature centre back than Jones (probably coz he has a years experience head start).

    Smalling alongside Rio/Vida/Evans at centre back….and Jones at full back, which is a more natural position for him to bomb on from

    As for the striking issue….I think Berba is the player to bring out when we want to close out a game (as seen by his excellent cameo vs Chelsea a couple of weeks ago). Owen is the one to bring on when you’re chasing a goal, as Fergie said- he’s always got a goal in him.

    So personally, I would’ve expected Owen to come on instead…..but that would’ve been a real body blow to Berba’s confidence tbh. In any case, perhaps Fergie wanted extra height in the area/composure on the ball, which is why he turned to Berba.

  36. WillieRedNut says:

    Sparkz – Thought the same about Smalling. He’s more natural CH. Jones loves to get forward, so maybe they could switch?



  37. Doghouse says:

    I missed this game, so I can’t comment on what happened on the field much. However in the context of the season I would say that if we’re going to have a defensive shocker, the sort of wake up call that we’ve needed for ages, then I can’t think of a better time to have it. Namely in a Champions League game in a group we ought to still win (don’t mind if we don’t, I fear no one in Europe).

    The defenders and midfielders too, whose responsibility it is to protect the goal, have been lucky. Lucky against Chelsea. Lucky against Stoke (though that ‘luck’ was more the brilliance of DDG). They needed to get shaken. They needed to wake up. Conceding three like this ought to do that. That we scored three and swiped a point is a silver lining, it means we don’t have a crisis, but Fergie will still be able to address the defence as if we had just lost.

    We shouldn’t panic if some slightly odd things happen in games like this. Fergie is the maestro, he knows where he can experiment. He will take risks in these matches because he knows they are safe. Expect the next team to play us in the league to face some harsh reality.

    Meanwhile how long til we get Vidic back? :)

  38. Ash says:

    I really love the attitude of welbeck.I know its his early days but the lad could be a star player for us and england if used properly.He is improving in each game and is becoming stronger.If he just stays injury free then he could score more than 20 goals for us this season.

  39. Swissdevil says:

    Does anyone know how it feels working for a bank located in the middle of Basle in Switzerland? Everybody is takin the piss off me.. but never mind, I keep walkin tall, and proud to be a United supporter! On Dec. 7th in Basle we’ll murder them on the pitch :)

    We’ll be BACK, MUFC for LIFE!

  40. What??? says:

    Shit performance to concede 3 goals in a row. Goes without saying. But Welbeck scoring two goals in Europe is a big plus. Carrick had a good game, Valencia and Young played well. Ando played better than his last performance. Giggs was pure class. Nani showed his quality. The back four did just enough for the first half. At 2-0 it was a solid result, despite what Basel created.

    Fuck knows what happened second half, but like Alex said its better to have this shock now in September. Bottom line how I see it, if we’re so “shit” then how did we show enough character to equalise and even miss a chance to win it? I don’t even blame Berbatov for shooting and not passing at the end, it was that type of game. Basel are champions over a season after all.

    So once you finish ranting about how “shit” we were, 3-3 was actually a decent result All things considered. If you lose a 2 goal lead with 3 goals in a row you don’t deserve all the points. Big wake up call for the squad, and we’ll be going out to win our remaining games, so no need for alarm over midfield imo. The possession we lost was down to errors on the night. Carrick again played well in his role, Giggs had a brilliant first half and tired, and Ando’s performance improved from Stoke (which wasn’t exactly worth losing sleep over imo.)

    Eitherway, we’ve had our best start in years so we can’t be THAT shit can we? Especially when a cm from our best starting 11 is out injured. Cleverly is like Welbeck right now, he’s ready for first team football, and Ando plays his best when he’s on the pitch. Having Tom out is a big deal, so until he’s back and Fletchers fit, grinding out draws when we could lose isn’t exactly that bad for September imo.

    The race is not for the swift but for who can endure it !

  41. StatesideAussie says:

    I think part of the “problem” with our backs generally, including Evra (but not Rio and Vida) is how far forward they get, and how often they go there. In the last few years, we have become used to our fullbacks attacking, though JOS and GNev did this less than the Twins or Evra. Now, Jones and Smalling are it too — even when playing from the center-half position. I know Evra has always done this, but previously, it was mostly him and maybe one of the Twins. Now, most of the back four are at it, which leaves a lot of gaps and “space” for other teams to exploit. Exploiting the space behind Evra is easier and more rewarding now, given the mobility of our other defenders, which makes Evra look worse.

    When defenders spend so much time going so far forward, it is bound to leave us more vulnerable at the back. It’s a trade-off: you gain a significant attacking edge (no one can deny that!), but you become less effective in defence.

    It will be interesting to see how SAF approaches this.

  42. WillieRedNut says:

    A decent team could expose the space we’re leaving. A top team will carve us open, and punish us. Never mind Barcelona, any top side in Europe. While TC has provided a freshness, we’ve still been open, when he’s played. Someone will have to take responsibility to do the dirty side of the game. And that’s mopping up at the back. Holding their position. Giving the back 5 a break from the constant onslaught. Back down to earth with a bump is right. Not easy for the younger lads. This is Manchester United. Ups and downs, is the way we do. The boss will be having a quiet word, with a few. We’ll get it right, though.

  43. Denise Williams says:

    Willierednut and Costas for your information I am no relation of Owen but I do and always will beieve in fair play. Please tell me how is it fair play to snipe at a player and rubbish him simply because you do not accept him. Tell me are we not all Man Utd supporters? Surely that means we give every player connected with the club a fair deal. I am sorry but Fred simply was not being fair. I have nothing against Welbeck I have no reason to. However I do not see how you can make sweeping statements suggesting that any player is useless simply on the back of one game. Particularly as Stoke and Basle are two totally different teams. Also Costas you said yourself Owen would have been a better option than Berba so why are you insulting my comments which if you read them tally with your own. Personally I cannot understand Fergie’s treatment of Owen as he says one thing then does the opposite. Is it too much to ask him to be consistent? As he has stated frequently that if you are chasing the game and need a goal Owen is the one to call on. That being the case were we not chasing the game last night at 3-2 down with ten minutes to play yet Fergie sends on Berba a player very short of form and confidence. I think we were very fortunate to get anything out of last night as it is we are a poor third in our group and if we do not improve we will be out of the Champions League. If this was to happen Fergie has to accept his share of then responsibility.

  44. Saad says:

    I was really pleased to hear the roar of the OT faithful when Nani subbed on. He has truly become a fan favorite and long may his United playing days continue. Hopefully he will become an OT legend.

  45. WillieRedNut says:

    Denise – I went back and checked Fred’s post about Owen. Nothing there, I would declare as being over critical. You seem to love Owen, so maybe a touch precious, on your part? Every fan has their favourite player. No problem with that. Maybe you should read Fred’s post again. I found nothing wrong with it. He give an opinion. That’s what we’re all here for.

  46. What??? says:

    Saad – that was a good touch from the faithful, and you could tell he appreciated it.

    Willierednut – well said 15:15.

  47. Giggs12Gerrard0 says:

    Some players should never play for certain clubs I.2 gerrard for united, neville for liverpool, shearer for Sunderland etc I consider michael owen in this bracket the same way I could never support that sheep shagging cunt Alan Smith either! That said how ever Owen has really changed my opinion on players with rival pasts! The guy has been a complete professional and contrary what is reported took a lot less money to play for us! I don’t really rate him these days for his all round game but Jesus the lad can score goals! It’s great to have Si many options and they will all play a pivotal role this season! We should be thankful we have players like berba and owen who love to play for United look at the blue nose bitters today with that rat Tevez even saying Fergie was right all along!

  48. KVN says:

    There’s a number of things going on. Firstly Cleverley was missing and
    he plays a crucial part in the centre midfield. Look at the second half when he came on against Man City when he took Carrick off. Look at him against west brom, spurs , arsenal and Bolton. He keeps the ball and possession is king. Other teams can’t hurt you if they haven’t got the ball. Plus he changed the rhythm and tempo United played at.

    There’s an interesting graphic on ESPN/champions league about average playing positions. I compared United’s with Barcelona and what struck me was that in the oppositions half we had about one or two players close to the 12.yard box. Whereas Barca had 6 places between the oppositions half. and their 12 yard box. Yet they only hadl3 defenders in their own half. Whereas we had about 4-7 whilst

    Welbect played really well.

  49. Denise Williams says:

    Willierednut I have read Fred’s post and he clearly infers that Owen has no right to be selected ahead of Welbeck. Bearing in mind we had all this a few months ago when Owen was selected as a substitute against Barca ahead of Berba I would qustion why this dislike of Owen. Owen has never criticised the club or the fans yet it seems to me there are certain people that refuse to accept him here. Personally I am sick of football fans dislike of certain players usually based on what they read in the press. Owen has never had fair treatment from the press. The Daily Mirror for example has had a vendetta against him for years simply due to the chief editor being best friends with Robbie Fowler who has been insanely jealous of Owen for many years. In fact that is why Fowler was kicked out of the England squad as explained by Sven Goran Eriksson in his book. In fact this same paper wrote an article encouraging people to stamp on Owen’s grave after his death. I am sure you would not agree to those comments. Sadly though people do read this rubbish and would do that kind of thing.


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