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VIDEO: Welbeck’s goal vs Spurs


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About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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91 Comments

  1. samuel - united WE stand says:

    And that value bollocks needs to stop. In this current transfer market, if you want high quality world class players, you will not get them for fucking peanuts. Raking in all these fucking sponsorships.. Apollo tyres to potatoe master, all the boasting yet no proof of class players on the pitch.

  2. John says:

    Someone above tried to point out that the criticisim of Mr. Moyes is unfair and tried to justify it making excuses for Tottenham match only…It is absolutely ridiculous!!..Its delusional!!..Its utter bullshit!!…I think the basic salary per week of Moyes is lesser than Van Persie but he has much much greater responsibilites…We fans just give our 2p…thing is we are in absolute perfect position to judge moyes right from his time from Everton..and fuck it is 2nd half of season now!!..even if you ask moyes, he will accept he has yet to prove he is worth the job…so no one is going to accept whatever from David Moyes…if he can’t, he will get his lovely sack and someone esle who deserves shall come..its life, its modern job for you!!..If it was Ole Gunnar Solskjaer who was appointed or sif it was Pep Guardiola who was trying to implement his new playing style, then no one is crazy to come here and criticize those people coz both would have been acceptable situations..However, Moyes is appointed for continuity and he has failed to live upto minimum expectation so far except CoC and CL (we all know where both will end tbh)…Its not that he is middle of season appointment…He had whole pre-season and summer window to sort it out..atm, what we can clearly say is, he lacked vision!!..he played youngsters like Zaha and Lingard in pre-season games and loaned one of them and seems to have given up on zaha..so he has been shamefully round hole in a square peg so far!!

    Having said that, he has chance to sort out few decent signings in jan and sort out pressing positions to us right now like central midfield and left back and training methods…I think, to be frankly honest, if we miss out on top 4, David Moyes should be given a Vincent Tan email, resign or get a sack??…Simple as that!

  3. Mav says:

    Heres the thing. The title is out of reach obviously. My main concern is top 4. I think you probably need 75 points for a top 4 spot. Thats 41 more points.

    At this rate we would need to win around 14 of our remaining 18 games to get to that total. That is alot of wins guys and the way we are going but more importantly the way teams above us are playing its going to be very difficult.

    What concerns me the most is that there is no definitive style. Last year, as much as it pains me to say I was impressed with Liverpool as you could see Rodgers style coming through despite the bumps in the road. Moyes has not done that.

    If we do not make top 4 this year it will be interesting because we will not attract top players (honestly probs cant do that now anyway with Moyes as coach).

    I dont think he was anyones top 5 choice for the job and jis appointment reeked of nepotism, but I still support him but he needs to get it together, the team needs to get it together amd the Glazers need to realize its time to fucking spend some money or else its going to get very bad

  4. Jackie Spain says:

    Why do people go on about the Glazers being miserly? I can’t think of anyone they refused to buy. Considering the dross Fergie bought you could wish they had been tight at times.

  5. DeGeaWeTrust says:

    John – what we will learn later down the road when it comes to managers at the top level, never appoint a manager who does a good job at clubs like everton, who did well on tight budget, because they do get found out at the highest level, fergie was appointed because of his trophy haul at Aberdeen, yes fergie was a trophy winning manager before coming to united Moyes is not. I do not have much sympathy for Moyes, we were told he can get the best out of an average bunch, well he is managing a team that won the premiership, and he may not even get them into the top 4. Like I say arsenal, Man city, Chelsea, Liverpool look like the best 4 teams in the country by quiet a distance, and for me it is a sin seeing someone like Moyes taking us to new lows that we have not seen in a long time. Losing that many home games already should be ringing huge alarm bells

  6. murssheed says:

    Watched the game between Chelsea and Southampton. Dunno why people are crazy about us signing Luke Shaw. He’s overrated. I dare say Fabio is a better LB dan Shaw. If we are looking to sign a LB, the best option would either be Fabio Coentrao, or Moreno of Sevilla.

  7. Tommy says:

    @murssheed

    Speaking of shaw the commentor in that game said

  8. Tommy says:

    @murssheed

    Speaking of shaw the commentor in that game said
    that he was rejected by Chelsea when he 8 for being too small haha did they expect him to be 6 foot 5 lol

  9. slim says:

    My only concern is getting dragged into the Europa League. If we miss out on a top four i’d take a year out of Europe. None of that Europa stuff thank you. Mixing the Europa League and trying to reclaim the Premier league is no mean feat. There is some serious travelling involved and unless Moyes decided to use the fringe and upcoming players throughout i say thanks but no thanks. I’ll gladly take 7th spot. I think Europa places are for 5th and 6th. Sure the moaners will come out in full force and the media will take great pleasure in knocking us down but it gives DM the opportunity to really focus on the squad he has and how he wants us to play and the league.
    Attracting players could prove a little problematic but we are Manchester United and that still counts for a lot. Its not as if we’re suddenly broke.

  10. slim says:

    WHAT THE FUCK

    As i was saying, not as if we’re all broke. We can still attract players. We may have to use the word “project” when negotiating with players but its not far fetched to imagine we can storm into Champions League places next year

  11. Tommy says:

    @Slim

    Would you not want to win a trophy this year? Any trophy win gets us in Europe plus as it is likly we beat Sunderland and city beat West Ham even a loss in the final gets us in Europa should city make top 4, its almost certain we will be in europe in some capacity next year lets hope its top 4

  12. slim says:

    Tommy

    Top four? I’d be happy. Champions league football. I’d take that but not Europa. Can’t stomach the format of that tournament , plus i’m almost certain Moyes would take it a bit too seriously. We should be planning the assault to reclaim our premier league crown next year. Thats what the focus should be on. There is a lot of ground to make up if you ask me and the last thing we need is traveling to far flung corners of Europe battling it out with vikings and barbarians

  13. Tommy says:

    @Slim

    I agree but we are perhaps one 2 legged semi win from garenteeing Europa at least should City beat West Ham. Harry Redknapp said the Europa league should come with a warning sticker lol, Its not the travveling that does my head in its the thursday sunday matches, I think Europa shouold be played on tuesday/wedensday and weeks theirs no champions league just my view

  14. slim says:

    Tommy

    Yeah exactly and there’s that. Those damn unforgiving fixtures. Urg. Cringing about it right now just thinking about it. Man i gotta admit i’d take losing out on a trophy (think its the Carling cup) Not sure if FA cup qualifies you for Europe so I’d go for that one

  15. Mav says:

    I dont get the europa hate from a scheduling perspective. Thursday sunday is the same as wednesday saturday.

    Also europa is a damn trophy and provides an opportunity to maintain our coefficient.

  16. Tommy says:

    @Slim

    So you want us to lose to Sunderland then? Wigan were in Europa league this year through winning FA cup, Only good thing about Euopa is I think from next year the winners get automatic entry to the champions league so if we struggle in the league again we could get a backdoor entrence.

    @Mav

    Europa league timings is an inconvenience to the players, say if we are schduled for a 5.30ko on a saturday but due to Europa league that gets put on the only available slot which is 12 noon on the sunday, Its not coincidence that the europa league teams usually struggle the leadue game after

  17. slim says:

    Mav

    watch spurs a season or two back and you’ll see why the schedule is unforgiving. The qualifications is much longer too. Like i said its not too far fetched to see United break into the top four next season and claim a proper European cup place. The breaks done a world of good for pools season this year and something similar would go a long way in giving Moyes the time and space to get to know the squad better without the demands of a long and grueling Europa Cup campaign

  18. slim says:

    Tommy

    If it means avoiding a grueling schedule, yes. yes i want us to lose. I can fully understand if you’re scratching your head. But i don’t see the upside to playing in the Europa next year. What we should be focusing on is getting back into contention for the league and guaranteeing a top four place. I maintain there is a lot of work to be done on the pitch and the less headache Moyes faces the better

  19. Tommy says:

    @Slim

    Cant agree with that, I will never want United to lose and if that means Europa so be it, Its as bad as some fans of clubs saying I hope x team loses the next 2 games so x manager is sacked, Harry always played the kids in the Europa league for spurs I would imagine we would do the same although added incentive of automatic champions league qualification to the winners if we found ourselves struggling again in the league its extra incentive but we are only 5 points off 4th now, I am still confident we will get into the top 4

  20. slim says:

    If we find ourselves struggling in the league again. Well if this is true then Mr Moyes may find he’s looking for another job. Naturally i’d never want us to lose under any circumstance, but there’s nothing natural about whats going on these days. I just do not see any upside to playing in Europa next year. We shouldn’t need to use winning as an entry into the champions league, besides , that just papers over the cracks. It’ll mean that,for the second season in a row, we were npt good enough to compete in our own league. Best scenario, we qualify for 4th and them the point about playing in Europa becomes moot. Easier said than done though. Its going to be one hell of a second half of the season

  21. dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT says:

    I don’t know why, I have this sinking feeling that we won’t bring anyone in this January. If that turns out to be the case then it tells me that NOBODY at the helm not Moyes or the owners or the Chief executive’s office is interested in improving this team and I will STOP feeling sorry for any of them. It will show that they only care about personal preferences rather than putting the club first. In other words Failure to spend in January is a clear sign that Moyes does not care about this club. We MUST spend some money in January.

  22. slim says:

    dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT

    Quite likely. Just an opinion , but i don’t think anyone’s coming in until an exit or two

  23. dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT says:

    While style of play might be the problem in my opinion, the article focuses too much on what is not the problem. United have been failing to put in crosses for THREE YEARS. That’s not exclusive to Moyes. Fergie was a very wing-oriented coach as well. Since 1992 especially, we have depended very heavily on wing play and croses into the box that’s why the 7 shirt at this club is so special these days and that’s why most of our greatest ever players are wingers. The problem is NOT exclusively Moyes although he does have a lot off aults. He can’t come on the pitch and put the balls in himself. Ashley Young. Tony V ESPECIALLY and Nani all SUCK at crossing an accurate ball. That’s not Moyes fault. That is the fault of the players themselves. Also his suggestion that for a wing-oriented system to work, box-to box midfielders are needed. Um we don’t have them. That’s not 100% Moyes fault either. Is it Moyes fault that he met Tom Cleverley and Carrick, (the two furthest things from box-to-box midfielders ever) in the team? Who is the man that refused to buy a proper box-to-box midfielder for 7 years? Who called Scholes out of retirement instead of investing in a box-to-box midfielder? That’s not Moyes either. If we are going to apportion blame we must recognize that everyone must take equal blame for this debacle INCLUDING SIR ALEX.

  24. Timothy Peng says:

    Anyone notice that we got a lot more play through the middle when Cleverley came off, and Kagawa moved into that deeper central role with Rooney? Kags held the ball and pushed the tempo a lot better that TC… also managed to pass it forward a bit too. It was refreshing.

  25. WilliamAR says:

    @dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT

    To be fair to Fergie he did win the league by a mile with the current crop of players and I am pretty sure he wouldn’t just use his wife as an excuse to retire and appoint a guy just to secure his legacy. He secured a legacy years ago and to blame him is just down right disrespectful to a guy that gave us everything. I think he genuinely felt that moyes was on this shoe string at everton and felt he could do a lot more with a bigger budget and a better team. yes the players have to take a lot of the blame but moyes puts players in positions they are not specialised in and moyes takes the training sessions and has been working out our tactics. he takes at least 80% of the blame. Fergie looked at moyes and respected his work ethic and failed to see his lack of tactical nous and lack of creativity. It’s unfortunate but there is no way he would intentionally sabotage the club he gave such a great service to. I just don’t buy that.

  26. Mark Reid says:

    @WilliamAR
    Great article,makes you think or realize that the touch line might well be the problem.Its hard to believe reading the posts on here that we have accepted that Europa is our option depressing.

  27. WilliamAR says:

    @Mark Reid

    Yeah it’s a shocking state of affairs. I do however think the problem will be rectified quicker than we think. If we look at it bluntly, that fact remains that the glaziers are very shewed business men and one thing that will always be on their minds is marketability of the club. dare i say it but if moyes fails to deliver a top 4 position in the league I think we will have a better manager next season. so much of our marketability is dependent on us playing successfully and no champions league football means lack of willing sponsors.

  28. dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT says:

    You see ANY hint of attaching blame to fergie is counted as disrespecting him LOL what a joke. Where have I said that appointing Moyes messed up Fergie’s legacy? Fergie was the greatest manager ever long before he even thought of retiring that’s not the point but to absolve him of all blame is downright ridiculous. You do know that this is basically HIS team for the most part right? this is the team he put together. In fact only additions might be Januzaj and Fellaini.. the rest of the team is his. Fergie for many years said that it was his goal to leave the squad in the best possible shape for his successor and so therefore we MUST judge that statement based on what that team is currently doing in his abence. A good team doesn’t go bad overnight. If a team is good they will do well even without their leader most times. Case in point, Chelsea reaching the champions league final with Avram fucking Grant as manager. While Fergie might have got the best out of the players, he should have realized that not all managers are made equal and should have at least got ONE proper midfielder at least to make the transition a wee bit easier. You simply can’t overlook everything that happened in the past and just concentrate on destroying Moyes alone.

  29. iamMatty says:

    Danny your arguement even makes mr moyes look more of a proper mug. So you mean to tell me grandpa fergie won the league by a mile with that same average bunch, but mr (blame everything but me) moyes can’t even get them into the top4?. Hahaha if I am to blame fergie then it would be getting too sentimental and charitable and giving the reigns to our dear club to the less qualified man on the managerial shortlist.

  30. DeGeaWeTrust says:

    WilliamAR – if they were that smart, why in the hell did they give the manager a 6 year contract? and take fergie’s advice on who to appoint. That is a hell of a long time to appoint a manager that was a gamble, heck he should have been on a rolling contract or at least a 3 year contract, so when he gets to 2 years, and he fails to make the top 4, they could sack him with less damage on a collateral level to pay him off

    But danny like I say, on a physiques level, its impossible for a midtable side to win the league at such ease in the modern era of football. This is the same side that was comfortably beating Real Madrid last season, and almost beat them at the bernabeu, not exactly average are they. This side is heavily experienced, 60% of that side have been with the squad since 2008, and 30% of the side have been here even longer, so the issue is? why have they gone from almost knocking real Madrid out of the CL, winning the league by a canter, to finishing possibly 9th or 10th. This is the same squad that has had the deadliest front 2 in Rooney and RVP last season, the best young keeper in the world in DDG, one of the best deep lining midfielders in the world in Michael Carrick, and plenty of depth upfront, good balance at the back, plenty of wingers to choose from, no this squad is not average, there is something wrong deeply why this machine is not powering right, they beat Leverkusen 5 1 for Christ sake this season, so something is wrong here.

    For me, the rotting core that is eating the club from the inside out, is Woodward and the glazers, and until they are all gone, this is dark times for this club with financial backing of a cornershop compared to the big dogs of this yard

  31. Sparkz says:

    Have to agree with Danny. Much as I love Fergie, he left Moyea a squad with some serious issues. No way should a club like ours have gone 6 years without signing a centre mid, especially as we were struggling in that area. No way should a club like ours have to consistently play a left back that’s been past it for 3 years, because there’s no quality replacements.

    These were issues on Fergie’s watch. Moyes to his credit tried to rectify these issues in the summer but couldn’t pull off the transfers (hesitancy on Moyes’ part? Bumbling from Ed Woodward? Bad luck?)

    Same with style and quality of our football. Our standards in terms of how we play have been declining since 2008. Yes we were winning trophies but nobody can say we were playing good football consistently.

    Now you might say “this squad won the League by 11 points last year” – but there were 3 key factors to last season’s success IMO

    1) The genius of Fergie
    2) The constant fitness of RVP and Carrick
    3) The sheer intensity and will to win that the players had (especially after losing out to City the season before)

    NONE of those 3 things have been there this season. Obviously number 1 is to be expected, but it’s the third point that worries me the most.

    Note how our best players this season have either been young players who are hungry to show how good they are (De Gea, Adnan, Jones, Welbeck) or people with a point to prove (Rooney).

    The senior players have dropped RIGHT off in terms of intensity and performance levels. If you ask me, now that the fear of Fergie is gone, they’ve taken their foot off the gas.

  32. Tommy says:

    @dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT

    “In other words Failure to spend in January is a clear sign that Moyes does not care about this club.” Is it his money mate? Its not him who signs the cheques, Theirs not a manager in the world and Moyes is included who does not want more money, even Mourinho and Pellegrini want more, either theirs no money to spend or money is that tight that Moyes has to get a transfer right otherwise he might not see that amount of money for a while, so he has to weigh up his options.

  33. goat08 says:

    @Tommy

    Sorry but I disagree. They made terrible mess with Everton relations.

    They wanted to be wiseguys and they overpaid for Felaini who so far is a joke if you have on mind amount he costed and that he even is more expensive that we could have get him one month earlier. Probably the price would not be an issue if he would preformed.

    I doubt that Moyes did not take big part in signing Felainin and most of all identifying him as his number one target – Since he was appointed we all new that Felainin will be signed.

    And i would not be surprised if the owners would be hesitant to splash more cash on any new targets identified by Moyes seeing how so far his only signing is doing.

  34. TopRed123 says:

    WilliamAR says:
    “Fergie looked at moyes and respected his work ethic and failed to see his lack of tactical nous and lack of creativity.”

    That’s probably it. SAF was never known for knowing how to nullify the opposition tactically, instead it was all mental. Hard-work, grit, and never giving up. He claimed after the first CL loss that he knew exactly what had gone wrong in Rome, yet he went with a ridiculous 4-4-2 formation against almost the same Barca, again. If we were behind in a game he used to put another winger on and put Giggs as a full-back, but that was largely it. Moyes has neither the tactical or man-management skills required and is very average which can be seen in our style of play. Predictable is just the first name. SAF made lots of wrong calls during his time here so it isn’t as unthinkable that he made a wrong call on Moyes as well, despite what some fans will have you believe.

  35. iamMatty says:

    My point exactly, saf pulled another djemba djemba decision on us as a parting gift. The old man got sentimental and gave the biggest managerial job in the UK to a midtable hardworking man who’d never become more than he already is. The main problem now is with grandpa saf’s involvement with the board and well publicized stubborness he would try his best to give moyes all the 6years in his contract just to try and prove that he didn’t make the wrong call. SAF did it to keano, ruud, becks etc when it was their time to move man, I think its time for him to receive same treatment.

  36. 20LEgend says:

    @Topred123

    Really? Lack of tactical nous from Sir Alex? Did you see the Madrid game last season? They had better players than us in every single position except for Van Persie and De Gea (Rooney was playing ridiculously bad at the time), and they had one of the best “tacticians” in the world. They struggled to break us down and if it wasnt for Nani’s red card then we might have as well faced Dortmund in the semis. Sir Alex won the tactical battle against the genius Mourinho.

    Southampton at St.Mary’s 2013. Brings on a 37yr old about 70% fit Paul Scholes and changes the game.

    Newcastle United at Old Trafford 2013. Exact opposite substitution, Tom Cleverly in place of Paul Scholes. Upped the tempo of the game, pushed Newcastle back, and won.

    Beating Arsenal comfortably over the past few years in several instances. One brilliant example is the game where he fielded a midfield containing Rafael, Fabio and O’Shea in an FA cup game against them and we won. Very very few managers would have the audacity and freedom of thought to do that. Very few. It was a work of rare art and unfortunately lost among the comments of others.

    These examples are just off the top of my head. Those performances are not purely down to mental coefficients. It was tactical brilliance from Sir Alex and it was a very understated part of him.

    As for your “ridiculous 4-4-2 against Barcelona”, Bayern Munich played the same formation against them with Muller in a withdrawn role as was Rooney for us. So there goes your theory. As Sir Alex himself said, tactics are not as important as the players playing them. Even if we had played a 4-5-1 against Barcelona, we wouldve lost. They were that good at the time.

  37. 20LEgend says:

    @Topred123

    Few other examples which come to mind…

    Playing Giggs instead of Rooney(switched to left) behind Smith in the 7-1 mauling of Roma. It was probably one of the first times that we played a 4-2-3-1. The media were raving about the “new” style of play then.

    His use of Park Ji Sung in big matches. Especially when he used him to mark out a deep lying playmaker in Andrea Pirlo (which was relatively unheard of at that time, mind you).

    Switching from his famed “stubborn” 4-4-2 to a free flowing front 3 of Ronaldo – Rooney – Tevez.

    Fielding Owen Hargreaves in right midfield against Chelsea in the final. Also fielded Ronaldo as a striker against Arsenal that year.

    Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as a winger in the period immediately after David Beckham’s departure. He was not at all bad there mind, just lacked the discipline of that position.

    Again, these are only a few. Im sure if we dig in, we might find a lot more. Im not saying that he was the best tactician ever, but to accuse him of lacking tactical nous is just cringeworthy.

  38. 20LEgend says:

    @ iamMatty

    Youre probably one of the first ive ever heard of accusing Sir Alex of sentimentality.

  39. John says:

    Much of the focus for Manchester United supporters this January will be on finding that one midfielder who can transform the team’s fortunes. Spanish duo Thiago Alcantara and Cesc Fabregas were missed in the summer and now there is hope that Borussia Dortmund’s Ilkay Gundogan can be the difference maker. But how can any midfielder make a huge impact when the team’s tactics don’t involve playing through the middle of the pitch?

    United currently rank bottom of the Premier League for the percentage of their attacking play that goes through the central zone of the field. Last season they were up in eighth. If it’s debatable whether that statistic should be interpreted as a negative, consider the company they are keeping – the next three teams on the list are Hull, West Ham and Stoke. This is not a template for a successful style of play.

    Is that a product of not having a top-class midfielder at the club or is it just the way Moyes wants his team set up to play? Having spent £27.5million on a central midfielder in the summer, there is a real danger of throwing good money after bad. As a result, perhaps the biggest fear for Manchester United fans is that they are chasing a solution on the pitch to a problem that is standing on their touchline.

  40. John says:

    1 Finally someone in the media isnt clinging to the weakness of the squad or Moyes needs players stories. Moyes is the problem at United. His style is not what we want to watch, nor one we should ever think of adopting. He never won anything at Everton in 10 years, and they were famous for playing unattractive football and failing to hurt the big teams. How long do we need to stick with this manager when he is fundamentally flawed? Do we really want to play like his Everton team have for a decade? You just need to look at them now they have a manager not stuck in the 80′s holding them back.

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