From the stands, it never looked like a pen. It looked like the keeper tips the ball clear and Michael Carrick fell over his body. That’s never a pen. I text my mate to double check and he said it was a nailed on pen. I assumed it was the red tinted specs talking.
I got in, got showered, went to the pub. All the reds at the pub said it was a nailed on pen. They were all pissed and I again assumed it was red tinted specs.
I got home, watched the video, and was quite amazed. Whilst it’s clear that Gomes touches the ball, it’s also clear that he touches Carrick first. Whilst there are referees that would and wouldn’t give it, even with video replay, there’s no way you can say it’s definitely not a penalty.
Carrick is trying to take the ball around the keeper so kicks it to his left, at which point Gomes arms and body make contact with Carrick’s feet and shins. The direction of the ball changes and that’s as much to do with the way Carrick kicks it as much as it is Gomes making contact.
It’s one of those decisions you’d probably take issue with if it went against you, because you always do when there’s a debateable penalty going against you. It wasn’t stonewall but I would never say it was the “wrong” decision.
Sky Sports: Spurs are incensed and surround the referee Webb, but the replay suggests it was a straightforward decision. Carrick was played into the area and got a touch just before Gomes slid in to take him out.
The Times: Invigorated by the tonic of Tevez, in 23 heady second-half minutes United forced five goals past Heurelho Gomes. The first was a penalty that, even after watching 20-odd replays, you were unsure should have been given.
@seanmc26 i never heard Stevie Me’s comments.I saw Alan Hansen with Lineker.He did praise us but after he made the point about the penalty being the turning point.Yeah thanx.For me,Scholesy bullying them was as much of a turning point.As far as the vermin is concerned,i felt the same thing.I think SAF wants to make this 18th title the most torturous one for the scousers!
Corea
Its rule 11 of the Fifa Rules of the game. Nowhere does it say that if a player touches the ball then it isn’t a foul.
Also I think Webb should have sent off Gomez.
Also Palacious should have been red carded for his attempted murder on Ronaldo. Rule 11 again, you don’t have to make actual contact with a player.
This is why giving the referee access to a replay or technology is not a good idea. if this decision is not made in a split second, there will be thousands of people calling the referee worse than they are now. if the referee makes an honest mistake when a decision like this is so dubious then he is given the benefit of the doubt because people cant call it either way. if he makes a poor decision after seeing a replay such as this that is inconclusive then all his credibility is gone.
Anyway, of course it was a pen =)
I still don’t understand the fuss.It’s a controversial penalty not one that clearly wasn’t.Guys it’s standard practice in many countries.When a decision goes your way,your rivals and the media cunts that support them make a big deal out of it to create an impression and to insure that you never get a fair shake again.Don’t be surprised if we never get another penalty in our favor this season even if our players get shot in the penalty box.It happened after Rooney got the penalty against Arsenal in 2004.
To me, the main point is not whether Gomez touched the ball or Carrick. There are 2 facts here.
1) Carrick got to the ball first
2) Gomez clearly prevented Carrick from stroking the ball into an empty net
If this is not a penalty, what is? Though I am not very sure how the rules are written, I am quite sure if a player prevented someone from scoring, it is a red card. Vidic got it with Gerrard still outside the penalty box with a goalkeeper to beat. So how Gomez did not get it when he commited the offence 6yds from goal in front of an empty net, I do not know
Another point, if someone lunges into a 2 footed flying tackle, he clips the ball, but breaks the leg of the player. So are you telling me it is not an offence just because he touched 1mm of the ball first?
Oh, 1 more thing I find interesting. Look at the post match interview with Redknapp, when they show him the replays. He looked lost and there was even a hint of resignation that it could be a correct decision, before he broke out again to say it was a wrong call, before quickly switching the topic to a foul before we scored another goal. To me, I think it shows even Redknapp acknowledged its a penalty, but only trying to find an excuse for the hammering
Would someone kindly post a link to the statistics which show the number of penalties we’ve been given this (and conceded) season compared to Liverpool and Chelsea? Scott posted some statistics a little while ago.
It’s amazing how thick ABUs are that, instead of physically watching the games themselves, they ignore what actually happens and propagate this myth about penalties always going in United’s favour.
Indyfan being a case in point here. He must have seen the United-Liverpool game, or at least been made aware that we conceded a penalty that day. He must have been watching the United-Everton game the other day, or at least been made aware that we were denied a clearcut penalty.
In summary (to all ABUs) – fuck off, watch the games and come back when you have something sensible to post.
At the end of the day… there has been plenty of decisions that have gone against us this year… so i aint bothered… some ya win some ya lose… and in this case we got the decision…
All i will say on the matter is… that in real time footage… i would have given a penalty.
Superb second half performance yesterday, they could not live with the speed of United s attacks in the second half as simple as that. What an afternoon, the atmosphere second half should be like that from here on in. Electric. At half time I was thinking back to that game a few years ago when the lads were 3 nil down and I just had a good feeling about it. Scholes and Carlos obviously made a difference but all credit to Rooney in particular who was “immense” (yes Costas that word again)! , Ronnie and Berba. The passion was excellent to see in Ronnie yesterday I just hope the throwing of the shirt was not some kind of other symbol. On this form and with his attitude like this there is no way I want to see him leave this summer, not for Kaka, not for anyone.
The ABU ’s are out in force predictably. On our way back from the game I was listening to Alan Green and the man should not be allowed on the radio. At one point one United fan called up to put him to task, he didn’t even begin to get his points across before swiftly being cut off. They actually tell you what you should and should not be talking about before they put you through to the studio. Hence no praising of United and no criticisms of the dippers game and their “very fortunate” decisions allowed. Pathetic, what happened to freedom of speech?
As for the penalty , it was pretty dubious but who gives a fuck? Well everyone it seems bar United fans. To think that unless we had got that we were dead and buried is laughable. Has nobody seen United chasing a game this season? The constant pressure and chance s we create. The truth is Spuds were 2 nil up at half time and they fuckin choked. They shit themselves. This will have a huge bearing on the season now. Bring on the Arsenal!
As i said above, what matter is what happens from here on.I am a bit concerned that the media will get on the refs’ backs from now on.And sometime a decision can change your fate.Lets not forget that referee mistakes have brought upon our last 2 FA cup exits.
Ps – How sick will the scousers be this morning!
Finally King Eric is here!Did you believe in destiny at half time mate?You remembered the Spurs game, i remembered the Everton game from 07.Personally i felt that the half time scoreline was veeery generous to them.3 attacks and 2 goals.Not even Arshavin had such an accuracy.
Forgive me for belaboring the point but I really am confused, some clarification would be appreciated.
So what do football rules actually say? To me it seemed that even though the keeper had contact with the ball, he also effectively took out a player with direct bearing on goal, thus it’s still a penalty, however complicated.I may be wrong though.
Anyone notice the similarity b/w Berbatov and Scholesy (the younger version) nowadays?
1) Both play deep behind the strikers
2) Both keep fantastic possession
3) Both play great passes consistently
4) Both quickly release the ball.
does anyone on here actually know what a foul is?
it looked a stonewall at first but having seen the replays on sky u can see it was a foul, unless u have goggles on. united ones!
anyway, its about fucking time we got a decision like that i,d say. we dont here about when we dont get em, but when we do………!
its bad enough listening to that twat andy gray and now theres another abu twat on setanta to spoil my viewing.
oh well, he who laughs last hey……….!
“Anyone notice the similarity b/w Berbatov and Scholesy (the younger version) nowadays?”
i did. some 5 months ago here at RoM.
When is a direct free-kick awarded?
whistle for a foul or misconduct, it helps the kicker to know if they can shoot straight at goal.
So when is a free-kick direct or indirect?
Here are 10 offences that can lead to a direct free-kick.
When a player:
Kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
Trips or attempts to trip an opponent
Jumps at an opponent
Charges an opponent
Strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
Pushes an opponent
Makes contact with the opponent before touching the ball when tackling
Holds an opponent
Spits at an opponent
Handles the ball deliberately
If any of these offences are committed by a player inside their own penalty area then it’s a penalty.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4200940.stm]
Gomes tripped Carrick in the penalty area, did’nt he?
lots has been said about the pen but i am sorry to say but it was NOT a pen. gomes got the ball before he got carrick. but i sure aas fuck hate it when the stupid pundits go on about it being a turning point of the season. the stupid scouses think every man utd match is a turning point – macheda couyld have won the title for an utd by scoring the winner against a.villa. but when we lose out on wwinning the quintiple and don’t get a clear cut penalty then nothing is said about it. we are man utd and whatever happens we will win the title. and as for all those liverfool fans saying that we only win because of the decisions given in our favour need i remind you what the table would have looked like last season had all the decisions been correct>?
1. man utd
2. arsenal
3. chelski
4. everton
5. a villa
6. liverpool
And how about the amount of comebacks liverpool have made this season against ten – men team? :@
Regarding the pen – first Redknapp needs to put a sock in it – nevertheless, trying to be as neutral as I possibly can be, I still cannot see why that is not a penalty. If spurs were denied a similar shout yesterday they (and the other bitter’s) would be coming on here telling us we’d bought the trophy, again!! So the first question to be asked of every spurs fan is whether they honestly would have accepted a referee’s decision to deny them a penalty in that situation. It’s one thing to say ‘yes, we would have after the replay’ and totally another thing to say that ‘the ref should have seen that’ – I doubt he could have seen the fingertip that gomes go to it.
Second, ever seen those penalties/fouls where a defender drags the attacker down and gets the ball at the same time? Or a defender taking a player out and then making contact with the ball? The fact is gomes took carrick out first, and also significantly, did not do anything to alter the trajectory of the ball to any consequential extent. Finally, he’s dived there which means from that point onwards he’s not really in control of his body (similar to a defender slide tacking, with both feet especially) – the fact that he got the ball intentionally is as dubious as anything else in that situation.
watched the game on setanta and the commentry was outrageous. the more i listen to and read the media the less i want to. i thought we were alright in the first half, not brilliant, but we created more then spurs. they had 3 chances and scored 2 goals but according to the commentators, we were shocking. i always felt if we got one back we would win it. tevez coming on for nani changed the game, not the penalty decision which for the record, i believe could have gone either way.
everybody bar ourselves wants us to loose the league, fact! any defensive error or poor performance and the media are all over it like a cheap suit. they are trying to get to the players and fans by planting seeds of doubt in our heads. they are also trying to influence referees by trying to infer that there is a bias towards us and that refs are scared of Fergie. the hate and contempt our club is held in by so called pundits like alan green is quite sickening. we are champions of england, europe and the world and they hate it. they hate it and they want us to fall.
we need to believe in ourselves and rise above the hate filled abu tripe that is trotted by these green eyed vulchers. if we are crowned champions at the end of this season, it will be one of the sweetest ever.
Costas – Yeah “fate” again mate!
Bingo – spot on, they are still banging on about it 24 hours later on talksport. The pundits? Alvin Martin the Scouser and Ray Houghton the ex dipper. When you try and get through you simply can’t they won’t entertain United fans. Even the rentboys are sticking up for us. Can we petition to stop this bias, it should not be allowed in modern day football, at least not in these proportions?
Howard webb made major mistakes……………he should have sent both palacios and gomes out, though he got the pen right, stonewall.
As a United fan I still feel we can look at situaitons clearly and when I watch that full speed it looks like a penalty. On replay, slowed down, I got to say that was no penalty. You can’t blame the ref for the call as it happens it a high rate of speed and he is behind the play. Behind the play at full speed it looked like a pk, which I shouted for at the time. But after watching the replays I knew we got a bit lucky.
We got a call but that happens for every team at least once during the course of the season. I think it was a simultaneous collision but I would be furious had a decision like that been given the other way.
Any ways does it even matter since we ended up with 4 goals after that? I don’t think the PK was what got us going but rather Fergie’s talk at half-time and bringing on Tevez to replace Nani. We sparked into life and it was only a matter of time until we found the back of the net, Webb just helped us out a bit.
Devil – Agree that Palacios should have been sent off for a shocking attempt at a challenge. While I think the PK was the wrong decision, if you give it a red must follow, as it was a clear scoring opportunity. It would have been harsh based on the circumstance in my opinion but right by the letter of the law.
How is it that when there is a controversy in favour of ManUtd….hell breaks out and no commentator speaks of the marvellous comeback United made.
How is it that noone made a controversy on the NOT given penalty in the FA cup semifanial against Everton…..Ahh but that penalty wasn’t given so it’s ok.
As most people said Carrick did get the ball first as the slides show and Gomez brought him down in his slide……OK one might say it was harsh, but the Ref has to make a slpit second decision and this has to be given on how fast the action was as well.
So, yes for me Mr.Webb was right in allowing the pen.
Also, when there is a controversy involving United all managers speak about the video assistance. For me that will kill the game of football as the game has to be stopped when there is a controversy. Video assistance is only to be used in goal line assistance to see if a ball has crossed the line when in doubt only.
After all we are humans and everone errs every now and then……
I had the match recorded and watched it over and over in slow motion,watch carefully, carrick just got his feet on it turning the ball to the left before gomes collided with him,then tipping the ball slightly,yes kelvin, it would have been harsh to give gomes the red card but do you think for one minute if the case were reverse that van der saal wont be sent off? ask kuszczak.
I just watched Papcios tackle on Ronaldo. The more you see it the worse it gets. He should be given at least a 10 match ban. had he got Ronaldo we would have been now talking of a wasted career.
They banned Evra for nothong that happend after the match. Old farts at FA should act now before someone gets really, really hurt.
And our media ‘well-wishers’ go on and on about the penalty that to be the right decision after all.
the devil. watch it over again and i think you will find gomes touched it, slightly, then caught carrick.
i dont think webb could not have give it without exray specs, it looked a clear penalty at first. especially from his angle.
John Gregory in the commentary box is so anti Man Utd. He makes me want to throw up. As for the penalty, as already said and written Carrick took the ball first, Gomes touched Carrick in the process of trying to get to the ball and tripped him. In Italy and in Spain, there would not even be a discussion about it. Clear penalty. But even if this incident did not take place, Spurs were still 1 – 2 up at this time. Why should they throw in the towel. If the situation was the other way round and United were winning 2 – 0 and Spurs got the penalty, does anybody think that United would have crumbled the way Spurs did. The truth is that as from the beginning of the second half United showed the difference in quality between the two sides and Spurs were well beaten. Now let’s all be honest, Webb is not exactly one who gives penalties to United freely both at OT and away. I never heard anybody complaining last Sunday when we did not get the penalty on Wellbeck v Everton in the FA Cup semi. By the way when are Liverpool going to win a match against 11. Craig Burley, you’re just an anti Man Utd cunt. Go hide in the hills you ugly son of a bitch.
I’m going to go watch setanta’s coverage of the game again, just to hear craig burley go bananas…since his opinion counts for shit, I might as well enjoy his agony!
yes mahesh, doing the same thing now,almost feeling sorry for him
Hey, Wazza, flattered you’ve been waiting for my comments, good on you! I’ve been refraining from crowing because my big brother is a Spurs fan (since the 50s). I doubt if he reads this site but still, he’s a bit aggrieved about the penalty. As for me, I think it was a fair decision, although I can see the arguments on both sides. But even if it was a bad decision, that still left United a goal down, so to me it’s all a bit of a smokescreen for ‘Arry and a golden opportunity for all those media ABUs and Scousers to cry ‘foul’. I thought it was a stunning performance by United in the second half, one of the best seen anywhere this year. I have had to endure a a few bad results against Spurs over the years, 4-1 defeat in 1960 by the Spurs Double team was one of the low points of my United career, so I just loved this. Almost as good as the 5-3 comebeck in 2001, which I saw. There was even a photo of that game in the press where you could see me in the crowd after Beckham scored then. Magic. What a buzz yesterday, eh???
wow i’m watching the setanta coverage as well speak (again!) and I must say the anti-united nature of the commentary (from both commentators) is staggering. they just keep going on and on about the penalty….
Carrick interview
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2396360.ece
i thought having video replays for incidents like this is the way forward, but having read all these comments on how that was a penalty im thinking whats the point?! amazing really how we only see what we want to!
They are still on about it on Sky too! Not a thing about mascherano or the handball for kuyts goal though.
Bossdem: good point! I must say though I have looked at it so many times from an unbiased opinion and still cannot make mind up. If so many are still unsure how would a replay system in the game work?
How you can look at the second picture and tell yourself that he touched carrick’s legs before the ball is so laughably biased i wonder why we’re even bothering to talk about this.
Ure second pic alone shows that the gloves are a microsecond away from the ball NOT HIS LEGS!
PLUS HOWARD ADMITTED HE COCKED UP!
For me and to all my friends here who were watching the game it was a sure penalty..it looked that way in TV..if i am sure then at the start of the season, Liverpool got some penalties in the same way, why the fuck are they complaining now? It just shows the lack of spirit from the scousers.. it absolutely pisses me off when people say it was due to a refereeing mistake we won the game.bloody fuck those bastards..It took great deal of character and determination,class and guile to come back from 2 goals down at half time to win in that fashion. When the fucking scousers were winning games after being a goal or two down the SOB Rafa was calling it great character from his side…but reality they won half and more of those games on sheer luck (refereeing decisions and some pathetic display from opponents)