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We’ve Won It Three Times

Red and White Kop: John Smith had told reporters that he believed the trouble to be the fault of ‘Chelsea fans’ – it was nonsense, clutching at straws. There had been fans of other clubs there, there always is in major cup finals, but not in any significant numbers.

The families of the 96 have every right to be fuming and sickened with the South Yorkshire police after their inept behaviour lead to the deaths of so many people. The idea of seeking ‘justice’ for their deaths is one we can all understand. If one of mine had died at Hillsborough I’d be as hellbent about getting justice as the families of the 96 are. By failing to accept responsibility they are denying the families the chance to grieve properly.

Likewise, after Heysel, Liverpool FC denied any responsibility for the deaths of the 39. John Smith (the chairman) blamed Chelsea fans and said it was nothing to do with Liverpool. This was a front the club kept up for 20 years until they met Juve again. The fans said sorry and put on a big fuss, but Juve fans turned their backs, stuck up their fingers, and whistled. 20 years too late and 20 years of pain for the club, fans and families of those that died.

Without Killing Anyone we won it three times is not mocking the dead (like Munich and Hillsborough songs do), it is confronting Liverpool fans and Liverpool FC with something they denied for 20 years, something they blamed on Chelsea and a stadium.

The very fact that Liverpool’s die-hard fans, the ones who were able to get tickets for the Merseyside derby (so not some jonny-come-latelys from London, but season ticket holders with plenty of loyalty points), were singing “2-0 to the murderers” makes any anger directed at United fans for singing the song entirely pointless. Liverpool fans refer to the club as “murderers”.

It was wrong for Liverpool FC to deny Heysel was their fans’ fault, it was wrong for them to mockingly refer to themselves as “murderers” but how wrong is it to confront Liverpool fans with their past, a past they denied for 20 years? Would Juve fans want attention brought to the behaviour of Liverpool fans that day? Given how much attention Liverpool fans have wanted drawn to the South Yorkshire police, I’d argue yes.


The chant isn’t in good taste, certainly, just like so many chants up and down the country, but it shouldn’t be lumped with singing about Hillsborough and Munich. United players were singing it after we won in Moscow and whilst that was picked up in the press, there was little to no fuss made about it. If they had been singing about Hillsborough though, it would have been a completely different matter, and rightly so.

Whilst I imagine the Liverpool fans who were there that day have a heavy heart about what happened and several of the fans involved were prosecuted, the fact is Liverpool FC’s official stance was it was nothing to do with them, and it took them 20 years to say otherwise. Had they accepted their responsibility, instead of pointing a finger at Chelsea and the stadium, the chant probably never would have been created, but that’s not what happened.

You could also argue that Heysel has nothing to do with us so we have no place to sing about it, but I disagree. Firstly, I think that any footballing tragedy has an effect on football fans. We know that had our results been better that season, we would have been at Hillsborough. It would have been our fans. It’s something you can relate to. When the anniversary took place last year and you saw parents of children who died at Hillsborough, you’d be a monster not to feel any compassion for them. When you’re a football fan, an incident doesn’t have to happen to your club for you to have a reaction to or opinion of it.

Secondly, they are our rivals, and football fans sing about their rivals. Liverpool fans sing about Chelsea not having any history, but what’s that got to do with them how many trophies Chelsea have won?

Thirdly, Heysel denied us, amongst many other English clubs, the opportunity to play in Europe, after their fans got our clubs banned.

Essentially, the song may not be for you, I’m not trying to force it down your throat or tell you that you should sing it, rather I’m explaining the reason why it is sung by our fans. You may not agree with it and that is fair enough, but this song is not about mocking the dead, it’s remembering what Liverpool FC denied and celebrating our success in Europe.

About Scott

Scott is the editor of Red Matters - 50 Years of Supporting Manchester United and an author of Play Like Fergie's Boys and Not Nineteen Forever. He writes for ESPN, The Metro and Bleacher Report. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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  1. Badger says:

    Well firstly, I’m a game going Liverpool fan… I wont hide that. Secondly, thank you for agreeing about the fight for justice (I know quite a few PROPER game going mancs that feel the same way, even down to the fact that they wont buy the s*n… good lads.. I know many more of your game goers that arent). Third, Heysel was a tragedy that should never have happened and cost the lives of 39 innocent people. But… thats where we end our similar views.

    How you can say that that chant isnt mocking the dead is a joke. When did we win anything ‘while killing anyone’?? I’m pretty sure we lost the 85 European cup final 1-0…
    And if you actually knew anything about the events surrounding that game then youd know that there was fans from Chelsea, West Ham, Notts Forrest, the ‘NF’… and dare I say some of your lot over there?! Read up, look at the videos and photos and look at the flags, its there to see… Liverpool had hardly fuck all to do with the NF… we were too busy winning trophies and rampaging round europe for that…. something you lot copied from us.

    The 2-0 to the murderers chant at the derby was sung by a minority… I know, I was there. And was quickly shouted down by the majority of us with ‘Liverpool, Liverpool’… The same way that the majority of us shout the munich chants down whenever theyre sung by the minority of our tits at your gaff.

    But then I could start on going about your place… Going in we get a single police line separating us from you and your lot singing ’96 wasnt enough’, ‘you murdering Hillsborough bastards’, bottles getting lashed over it, in the ground grown women smothering their face, the whole ground chanting murderers, you scouse bastards (always cracks me up that when your best players a scouser) grown fellas blindsiding 15 year old lads outside the ground just cos theyve got a Liverpool shirt on. Ive seen it with my own eyes. Youse singing murderers even when your not playing us. But thats the difference between our fans and your fans…You watch or listen to a Liverpool game, all we sing about is our team… NEVER anything else.. Your fans can be a fucking disgrace

    Your players got picked up singing it in Moscow yeah, and yeah the media didnt do fuck all….. But again, you werent even playing us! So why sing it?! Would the media have left it if itd have been crystal palace players??

    Which brings me onto the fact that your fans have actually got real blood on their hands, but no one says anything about that because united fans are the best in the league, defo the most well behaved. You still get the most banning orders in the league every season??

    Some of your fans dont even like that chant (rightly so) Some of your fans are gobshites. But thats footy, every club has them.

    Now im not a norwegian, the same as I hope your not a cockney or asian, and well never, ever, get on as clubs…. but youd be fucking surprised how many die hard, game going mancs ive met and got on with outside of football

    But as one of our early 70′s firm said ‘We never really hated the septics, until we realised how much they hated us, then they just got jealous of us’…..

  2. Skellington says:

    I am a Liverpool fan.

    The Heysel disaster was a tragedy for Juventus, not for Liverpool.

    And this song, and that t-shirt exist for two reasons.

    Firstly, to piss us off.

    Secondly, to make your three European trophies somehow ‘worth more’ than our five.

    It isn’t successful, and it asks us all to forget that real people, with real families, died. And that is why it’s awful.

    If someone were to make a ‘We’ve Won It Seven Times Without Killing Anyone Anyone’ t-shirt with a picture of the FA Cup on (Manchester United fans killed a Crystal Palace fan called Paul Nixon, as I’m sure you remember) that t-shirt would be awful.

    The worst thing is the hypocrisy.


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