Two seasons ago, Manchester United were beating City 1-0 at Wastelands. We’d taken a well deserved lead through Wayne Rooney and were playing well.
With over 20 minutes left to play, Rooney delivered a perfect ball in to Cristiano Ronaldo to put us 2-0 up. Instead of heading it in to the back of the net, he tried to catch it.
Howard Webb marched over to Ronaldo and showed him a second yellow card for deliberate handball. Ronaldo was miming a whistle, implying he thought he had heard one, which would have made sense. He wasn’t trying to score with his hands. It would have been far easier to do that just by putting his head on the end of the cross. Still, he was sent off, and thankfully United managed to hold on to the three points.
Last night, Barcelona absolutely battered Arsenal. I thought the Champions League final in 2009 was a football lesson but that game last night was probably the most one-sided game of football I have ever seen. In the post match commentary, Jamie Redknapp bizarrely claimed that Barca did to Arsenal what Arsenal do to 99% of teams. Really? Arsenal reduce 99% of teams they play against to no attempts at goal? Hardly.
Watching United get outplayed in 09 was one of our worst moments as United fans, but in that game, we had 11 attempts (2 on target, 7 off target, 2 blocked) on goal and 47% possession. When it was widely regarded we were murdered that day, it puts the Arsenal performance in to context.
After the first half, Arsenal had just 32% possession and hadn’t had a single shot, on or off target. Arsenal had 41 touches in the opposition half in the first half, compared to 310 by Barcelona. It was a mauling.
Barca only lead 1-0 but Messi had been fouled in the box but the referee waved play on when a penalty was the obvious decision.
Then, with almost an hour played, and after already being on a yellow card for slapping someone in the face (a red card offence), Robin van Persie raced towards goal. The whistle blew and then van Persie lashed the ball as hard as he could miles off target from inside the box. There was just one second between the whistle blowing and him kicking the ball. The referee showed him his second yellow and he was sent off.
Van Persie claimed not to have heard the whistle, which would be a fair enough excuse. Although it’s easy enough to understand the referee’s position, given the striker was in a great goalscoring position and as soon as the whistle went, decided to take a wild swing at the ball. Maybe van Persie should take it as a compliment that the ref didn’t believe when he kicked the ball it was a genuine attempt at goal, although this was a harsh decision. I’m sure Barca were glad to see decisions go against Arsenal though, after what would have been one of their two away goals was wrongly ruled out in the first leg and no penalty was given for a foul and Messi.
The second half then continued on just like the first, with Barca dominating possession and Arsenal not having any attempts on goal. Luckily, Barca scored a goal for them, Busquets’ header getting them an away goal, but when the 90′s minutes were up, Arsenal still hadn’t managed a single effort of their own at goal.
By the end of the game, Xavi and Iniesta both individually (not combined) made more passes than Diaby, Wilshere, Cesc, Rosicky, Nasri, van Persie, Bendtner and Arshavin combined. Barcelona attempted 717 passes, Arsenal just 195. Arsenal touched the ball twice in Barca’s box, compared to a total of 47 by Barcelona. This was the first time since stats were analysed for Champions League games that a team has hadn’t a single effort at goal.
It was the fair result, particularly when you consider Barca also had a perfectly good goal ruled out at the Emirates. Arsenal will complain about the sending off, but if they’d had a goal wrongly ruled out for offside and penalty denied against, whilst Barca just had a man sent off for 35 minutes, we’d have been hearing about that instead. We certainly heard about it after their 0-0 draw with Sunderland, when the same decisions that went against Barca went against Arsenal.
Now, watching Arsenal get battered like that was obviously entertaining, particularly with Cesc Fabregas providing a lovely backheel in the lead up to Barca’s first goal (a taste of what next season will be like) but throughout I couldn’t help but think about the consequences it would have on our weekend’s game.
When The Best Striker In The World (TM) got in to a great position with minutes to go, I was left to wonder how they would be buzzing on the back of a result at the Nou Camp. But his awful first touch meant he couldn’t save the day for Arsenal and now the position they’re in is a lot more depressing.
Like they crumbled following that draw against Birmingham a couple of years ago, William Gallas crying in the centre circle at full-time, you have to wonder whether Arsenal have the bottle to turn things around following their humiliation this week.
Who do the players have to look to on the pitch? Fabregas is their captain and leader, although he’s going to have a hard time getting over looking like a dick at his beloved home, the Nou Camp. How he managed to retain the captaincy after last summer is beyond me anyway but regardless, he’s hardly the type of captain many fans would want (outside of North London, of course).
Whilst obviously the team will now turn their focus to the United game, it’s encouraging to see the players’ reaction, which is comparable to a bunch of spoilt little kids. Rather than accept the fact they were easily the 2nd best team, created NO chances, regardless of the decisions that wrongly went for and against them, they’ll spend this week feeling hard done by, starting with Van Persie, who believed his sending off made a big difference to the game, despite the fact they had zero attempts up until 55 minutes when he was sent off, and zero attempts for the 35 minutes remaining.
Robin van Perise: “It had a big influence. I think it was a total joke. I can’t understand the view from the ref. He has been bad all evening. He was against us. I don’t know why he was here tonight, it’s a joke. We feel betrayed.”
Arsene Wenger: “I am still convinced that in the second half we could have done a lot at 1-1 if it had stayed 11 against 11.”
Jack Wilshere on Twitter: Sorry about the result,good luck to Barca,great team! Oh yeah and the ref was good aswell….
Samir Nasri on Twitter: by the way bussaca is the best….pff
Rather than just accepting they weren’t good enough and they clearly have issues to address, they are wrongly blaming the referee for their defeat.
This will only have positive effects on our game against them this weekend, when spirits will be low, and who knows what two Cup exits will do for their morale ahead of the final few weeks in the title race…
Man Utd News 24/7
yeah I’m worried too.. not just for the upcoming game, but I’d rather that United face arseanal that Barca in upcoming rounds :S
The Quad is gone, lets hope that we finally snuff the life out of them on Saturday……PLEASE PLEASE not a third big defeat – its not possible….is it ??
Still, ref was a shocker. Should’ve sent both Alves and Abidal off for putting their hands up. If we had a player sent off like Van Persie was, we’d be furious too.
I have to say, I was hoping Arsenal would go through, if they had, their players would be more fatigued, and we definitely wouldn’t have to face Barca later on.
I’d have the same reaction if it happened to us tbh so wont point fingers there. Anyway, hopefully we can get through our tie and avoid Barcelona till most of our players come back from injury, then I think we can give them a run for their money.
You can’t necessarily compare CL exit with losing one game in the league. Mmmm, 2 games in a row, sorry. We were battered on Sunday, i wonder what our spirits are right now.
So it would be a really tough game. 1-0 will do for me, just go through to the next round. Seeing Citeh with the chance we must make sure they don’t get their hand on the trophy anytime soon.
Although don’t necessarily believe we should tremble with fear they might win something.
and of course you have taken your 2 recent defeats in such good grace..
Think you’re a bit harsh there. Statistics put the game brutally in to perspective. I think Arsenal were hard done by on the night though as nearly every 50/50 went against them.
32% possession in the first half is an amazing statistic but the onus was on Barcelona to score. Makes me laugh after all the snide comments received after the 2009 Champions League Final. United taught a footballing lesson. I remember the ABU’s cracking open a bottle of champagne on the return journey from Rome.
I do wonder how United would fair against Barcelona. Arsenal only play one way and never adapt for the opposition. That is why I don’t think they will win the Champions League while Wengers in charge. SAF seems to adapt to the opposition but would we just be in the same situation as Arsenal last night?
Barca had 76% possession…havent seen the territorial stat..but can imagine. the game was played in the arsenal half. Attack v Defence.
its funny…we’re always taught to drop back in to position and get deep as soon as we lose the ball – even computer games do this as a default as its supposed to be the best method of defending and winning the ball back…but about 2 or 3 barca players will go staight for the ball to win it back no matter where they are or how many players are back for them…
Of course the fucking ponces won’t bite back, they havent the mental fortitude. Even funnier tweet is the one Rio made. Summat like Bussaca is still the best ref, or something like that, winding them up.
Infact I am gonna listen to Durham tonight as he will be winding Arsenal fans up. Some cunt on the radio this morning said “They were clearly targeting Wilshire”. First Stoke are bulllies, then Brum NOW Barca,. You could n;t make it up.
Where is Gerry the Gooner this morning? Quadruple my fucking arse. Arrogant snood wearing bastards.
Don’t even know why people are remotely worried about this mincers. They bottled it at Wembley. They bottled it against a poor form Sunderland. They ALWAYS bottle it. While I accept our away from is poor in the league we only have four games to play away, compared to their six. I actually think we have a considerably easier run in.
Well Barcelona last night were there for the taking and Arsenal missed their chance by a testicle hair so there is a chance they will forget to bring their A game that they took to Nou Camp only for the ref to rob them..So yes I think we have a chance provided they play like Arsenal.My god what’s wrong with me my shoulders are going all Ted Heath on me.
Arsenal players and fans worldover are good at moaning about how others are responsible for their failures instead of looking inside and trying to rectify faults within their structure….on the red card, i still have an inner belief that RVP heard the whistle, he just wanted to be silly..we all know him, he tries silly things at times..let them sulk as much as they want but let them be rest assured, its gonna be a WELCOME TO HELL party at Old Trafford.
AlphaRS: Yes, I’ve often wondered about it too. The thing is that there seems to be a Dr.J&Mr.H phenomenon about this Utd. team. Chelsea game 1st half vs L’pool game – spot the difference? You just cant predict a Utd. performance this season. And the injuries, and the consequently unsettled squad doesnt help. If we play like we did against Chelsea in the first half, with speed, finesse and intricate passing and great off the ball movement, we would put up a stiff fight. What I would love to see is somebody actually taking the fight to Barca and leading by a goal at half time through some good football and not some fluke. Because they have got so used to winning and dominating, sometimes I wonder if they still remember what it means to dig deep and fight back.
Scott the red u say u can c the refs point..u wouldn’t b sayin that if it were Rooney..fuck worrying about wat it will do to arsenal let’s worry about r own game,let’s knock them out in good fashion sat and then watch them crumble..Valencia back could really ignite Rooney for wats gona b a big end to the season..then wen it’s all over and we r celebrating number 19 then we can all talk about who we r gona sign..can’t wait..
What this article fails to mention is that when RVP was sent off, Arsenal had just equalised. Moreover, previous encounters between these two sides tend to show that Barcelona’s incessant first-half pressing of the opposition takes a physical toll in the second half. Arsenal have finished previous encounters far stronger.
Pundits point to the fact that Arsenal were on the back foot in the first half. But Wenger’s game plan was to keep it tight up to half time. Whilst Fabregas’ moment of madness in injury time at the ned of the half undermined this philosophy, the Busquets og obviously restore parity and meant the game plan was back on. Who is to say what would have happened if RVP had rightfully stayed on the pitch.
Following RVP’s dismissal there were numerous examples of Barcelona shooting following a whistle for offside – but no action was taken by the referee. Also, why was Ibidal not red-carded for grabbing RVP by the throat?
jeffers – Can you show me the United players who blamed the ref for our defeats against Chelsea and Liverpool. Just copying and pasting a quote would be fine.
Arsenal had RvP sent off… but then Barca had a goal wrongly disallowed in the first leg and a pen not given in the second leg. The refs kept Arsenal in this tie. For Arsenal players to ignore that and to ignore the fact Barca tore Arsenal to shreds in a way I can’t remember seeing before is only a positive thing for United. Yeh yeh, blame the ref. It was all his fault.
Scott the red- I’m just sayin the rvp decision was wrong but regarding the rest ur bang on..war do u think will happen in the summer..all these names yet they can’t all sign..!!
And just to add to STR, even through the fans’ red tinted glasses on RoM, I dont think you will find a single post blaming the ref for the loss against Liverpool. We deplore the lack of action against carragher, but everybody agrees that they were the better team. Rio said as much on his tweet as well. But then, we dont wear snoods
How childish are these Arsenal players on twitter. Lol.
Anyway, Arsenal have a tendency to crumble after they get knocked out of one competition. The game on Saturday won’t be easy. I can see them throwing everything at us now that the C.League is gone for them. If we play a strong team, we will probably win it though.
It’s interesting there is no mention of how disrespectful it is to call the ref “a joke” as RVP did, not to mention Wenger’s comments. I’d say it’s a tad more disrespectful than calling for a “fair” or “strong” referee.
Double standards anyone?
I know one is a domestic issue and the other is UEFA but it’s the same thing basically. Where’s the media on this one?
I saw barca Possession at 86 % at one point. It was a hammering, the twats are in denial we need to put a dent in their confidence .Fuck them up Big style.
Was a ridiculous decision by the ref that destroyed a game with great potential. Can’t believe how angry I was with the ref, considering I couldn’t give a rats-ass which team won the game.
Arsenal’s composure will always be in question when the shit hits the fan, but I don’t think we can make fun of them for their childish behavior, our own great manager is hardly the epitome of grace in defeat.
I just like to add that the second yellow is spot on, it’s just that referees don’t give these usually. That’s why the Arse feel robbed. I’d say it strengthens he opinion that the ref really is one of the best to call it.
To back this up I’d say that the shot RVP makes is such a poor finish that it couldn’t have been a serious attempt. Furthermore, anyone that has played football knows that in these situations you sense that it’s an offside. Add to that that he had a clear view of the assistant referee, with his flag up, before running off with the ball.
PS: I’d rather play Arsenal than Barca in the CL – I think they’d rip our midfield to shreds as they did to Arsenal.
Can i just say, shite decision or not, but if Van Persie doesn’t get a complete arse raping by UEFA or the FA or whoever, after the interview about the referee, then its a complete joke. If fergie gets a suspended ban or charged with improper conduct or any shit like that, then the same should be dished out to van persie.
Jig3000- You talking about the disallowed goal in the first leg? Or the penalty Barcelona should have had then? Or the penalty in last night’s game?
And I think we could take Barcelona and beat them, to be honest.
Yergen- I agree with you, but you don’t expect to be given a red card for that. Maybe a first yellow, but a red seems harsh.
Barca are the best Football team i have ever seen……
i was watching the match in the pub last night and the amount of chances they create is untrue, barca play like the nobheads on FIFA 11. The 1 touch passing, triangles, killer through ball.
Just amazed me.
Lets hope it knocks the stuffing out of the kiddies
theboogeyman
Really?
When you look at our midfield and how it has performed this season, and then picture it up against what we saw last night, can you really see Barcelona giving us a sniff?
Sorry, but I’m generally very optimistic about United’s chances, but if we come up against this Barca side, it’s the end of our European campaign.
Also, Wilshere is fast becoming the biggest wanker in football, keep your mouth shut you gobby little shite
@theboogeyman.
Our midfield in comparison to most top teams is lightweight and lacking in creativity at the best of times. And i dread to think what it will be like with no Nani if he’s out for a while. I agree with kanchelskis that im normally very optimistic about our chances going into a game, but we meet them, with this midfield, we could get turned over more than arsenal did
Championship Chase Has Completely Changed
http://www.theunitedreligion.com/2011/03/championship-chase-has-completely.html
Lads should not dissapoint us for the third time in a row, so I excpect a big perfomance on Saturday.
Off topic, what has happened to the freedom of speech? You cannot even state the obvious!
http://www.wigantoday.net/news/regional/trouble_for_united_fan_over_sticker_1_3160266
LOL at Yergen! Thanks you for undermining your own comment your obviousl ignorance about anything to do with football! Do you know what the first thing you teach a kid to play football is? PLAY TO THE WHISTLE! If you actual watch the incident again, Rvp gets played in, immediately the flag goes up quite quickly but at this point his head is down (maybe in your magic world of stupidity you would stop the ball have a look at the linesman and then continue) but in the real world you dont do this. The whistle goes as he is shaping to shoot, the fact the shot is awful is completely irrelevant and is a tenuous attempt to be bias towards barca, if you read any of the post match in the press, then you will see there is overwhelming consensus that it was a terrible decision! This is the same ref that pissed on the pitch in a champs league game last year and made obsence hand gestures at fans!
It probably wouldnt have changed the result and if AW had taken the group games more seriously then we would not have been in that position last night. Barca and Messi in particular are on a different planet! Id remind you that the team that was beaten 2-0 in the final was considerably better than the current Utd team……..Scholes, Fletcher, Giggs against Xavi, Iniesta…..yeah good luck with that! If I were you, I would hope you dont meet them either…….if you get destroyed by a struggling liverpool team then god knows what that barca team will do to you!
It will benefit them in the league for sure. With the frequent injuries they have them progressing in the Cl would have been better for our league hopes. Fuck the CL, no 19 is more important. Won’t mind if Marseille knock us out on tuesday. Sorry
hmmmm.
I actually want Barcelona in the quarters if we go past Marseille. A win will give us immense confidence, a defeat in the QF is easier to digest in the semis or finals. We can beat them, in that i have no doubt
I personally think arsenal can feel hard done by for that decision. It came just as barca were looking a little frustrated. Shame for such a match to effectively be decided by a ridiculous call by the ref. There’s 3 massive games in the space of one week in which the ref has made or hasnt made the right decisions. It’s an absolute disgrace.
No United fan, should have any sympathy for Arsenal. If Arsenal had of went through, that would be the bigger injustice. They were comprehensively out – played.
Tbh, van persie shouldn’t have been sent off. But with all those disgusting decisions going against us, i’m happy with the van persie sending off.
And shouldn’t he be charged for lashing out during the post match interview? And so many arsenal players whining on twitters. shouldn’t they be charged too? all this, and the media still have the cheek to harp on the Rooney issue. Disgusting. I feel like setting the FA and Blatter and the media on fire.
@GoonerJ i’m the first to admit it was a bad sending off but don’t really get how you can come on here and tell us we’ll get destroyed by barca when you just did,can’t do any worse because overall gunners were shit and outclassed so fuck off your comment is stupid and pointless
0 shots on goal. No way to sugarcoat that. Sorry. I’ve seen Greek clubs get mauled over there and still create at least one chance.
Arsenal were only in Barca’s penalty box twice Two corners which should only have been One.But this afternoon I will be watching to see how Tony V performs in the reserve game if okay and he turns out in the cup game were sorted right down our right hand side.Depending if the gaffer has a surprise for us on the left wing,and hopefully Evra get’s his game in order I will be confident of a clear win this weekend
Barca made Arsenal look like Willie Wonka F.C. from the Candy Bar League…fcking twats… week in week out, they keep complaining about the Boltons and the Stokes of the world…. So much for “Playing Football” last night….pff
I’ve no love for RVP but I thought it was a pathetic sending off and would have been ouraged if it happened to us. That said, there’s no doubt that Arsenal were very much second best and it would have been an injustice if they went through.
Not sure if you have any stats from our 0-0 in the Nou Camp a few seasons back. I remember it as a great performance but doubt we had much possesion or many attempts on goal.
The best team won and that’s it.
Wenger said it but would have like a referee with more common sense. Second yellow card after 10 mn in second half in a very noisy stadium doesn’t make much sens when everybody was expecting a final warning.
I think we were not as bad as everyone is saying over 2 matches. Don’t forget that we won the first tie with everyone saying that Barca was going to murder us and if you think that we didn’t deserve anything remember your final against Munich when choosing your argument.
If you think that we were crap you need to watch more often Barcelona.
2 years ago Barca put you in their pocket and they were probably 30% weaker than now.
We played Barcelona, the best team in the world with the best player in the world, the same team who won 5-0 against probably the most expensive team in the world (real Madrid) with what is suppose to be the greatest coach in the world (mourino), a team who have not lost at home for over a year and that many consider the best in history.
And I could carry on with some more out of this world barcelona stats but no need really.
We still have a lot to play for and to tell you the true I will take the premiership and f.a cup over the champions league anytime.
Regarding the game on Saturday, I think man u has a good chance with our player having put a lot of energy against Barca but we never know. Nani will be a big miss but vidic is back. I think we will win the premiership now that we are out of the champion league.
By the way your coach did speak about the referee performance against chelsea which is why he is in trouble and your player could not speak about it against Liverpool since you are in black out mode which make your point about your team never complaining about the ref a bit strange.
Before speaking about Fabregas you should look at your captain which acted like a real leader at the world cup. I do believe that when you captain a team you have to show example at all time. To use the argument about fabregas wanting to leave is a bit weak since Rooney, Keane, Cantona have all been captain of man u and all acted at one point in their career like money driven mercenary, thug (breaking the leg on purpose and the career of another player) and kung Fu master kick against a fan.
Finally your are man u and I respect your spirit. Let’s see how good you are with one of your best player this season ( by the way I will have love to see your reaction if this Liverpool thug with have broken Nani’s leg, Eduardo style since we are the one playing and complaining like babies) out for next 3/4 games. You didn’t impress me much without Vidic and Ferdinand but anyway to have your best player injured should not be too much of the problems since you are Man u.
Come on Arsenal
Parryheid – Lets us know, how he gets on. If he plays, of course.
@GoonerJ
Well mate, we’ve a better chance than Arsenal, we’re still in It mate.
Ha. Just seen what apeman Keown has said about Wilshire last night:
“It is not unfair to say he came of age at the Nou Camp— he looked like the lieutenant in Arsenal’s midfield. All the people who brought him through the ranks will be very proud of their efforts.”
Dave Mack – Don’t forget, Ronnie missed a penalty mate. That galvanized Barcelona. Arsenal created one good chance last night.
Everything about football comes down to how you react to adversity. There’s is no doubt that this week-end’s match will go a long way to deciding both arsenal and United’s whole season.
I firmly belive that whoever comes through this best will go on to win the league.
I’m no Arsenal fan but I have to say Scott, you’re seeing what you want to see; Arsenal went into this game with a one – goal lead to protect and set out to defend their lead and try to catch Barca on the break; which they might have done but for numerous crude fouls on Samir Nasri which went unpunished. As soon as the referee sensed that Barca were in trouble he helped out by giving RVP two soft yellow cards, one after another. With their counterattacking threat extinguished, Arsenal were reduced to a strategy of containment. For all their show – pony passing I don’t Barca would have won this game without the referee’s intervention.
As for the accusation that Arsenal always moan, I suggest it’s nothing compared to the degree of whingeing that Barca direct at the referee; for all their quality Barca is a team that relies heavily on niggling fouls, feigning injury and pressuring the officials in order to win matches. If we get through to the later stages of the Champions League we will have to play against 11 men plus the officials to beat them, especially at the Nou Camp.
I don’t subscribe to the Barcelona wankfest that passes for punditry these days; never did!
You need to actually tackle Barca players and get in their fucking faces.It was absolutely pathetic of Wenger to try and let them have the ball and sit so deep. Professor my arse.
Thanks Willie I had forgotten that which means we had at least one mor attempt than Arsenal!
I was looking into that 0-0 game actually. From Uefa’s website:
Barcelona Man. United
0 Goals scored 0
8 Shots on target 1
8 Shots wide 4
5 Shots blocked 0
1 Yellow card 1
0 Red card 0
12 Fouls committed 20
8 Corners 3
0 Offsides 3
42′ 39” Ball. Poss. (time) 26′ 10”
61% Ball. Poss. (%) 39%
as an arsenal fan i have have no problem to admit that barca owned us last night. but although they sunk us, it was a 4:3 in agg. and i wouldn’t call this a total disgrace against such a team.
no team in the epl can match them at the moment. if you think man u can then you’re deluded, really.
come saturday. but i wouldn’t put my money on the sick bay you call a team
so long
Hardly an Arsenal performance from last night.
Xyth – Saw that too mate. A piss take although it is probably a bit offensive considering it contains the word fuck or fucking.
aig – Bloody hell pal. Where you been? How are you? I knew you would have still been reading.
Also remember Carrick having a good chance in the second half. Came from a corner, he blasted into the side netting. Ronaldo was taken out in the first half as well.
willierednut – Spot on about sympathy mate.
I NEVER want United to get knocked out, certainly by fucking Marseille. Key players will be back anytime now so lets progress. Arsenal havent the balls for the league and anyone who thinks they do are wrong imo. They will balls it up as usual.
Yeah regarding twitter how come these little ponces are allowed to tweet what the fuck they want about refs etc while Babel was punished?
parryheid – Is Valencia confirmed for todays reserves?
I hear Brazil saying that the Spurs game will be tight. Will it fuck. Milan are shite and have half a team missing. Have only won 4 in 17 in Ingerlund as well. I suppose its to big Spurs and Beetroot face (kings tm) up when they do progress.
I don’t think we should be happy with yesterday’s referee. Whether arsenal had no single shot on target was irrelevant. The ref was obviously biased, let’s rise up against those threatening to ruin football. Here are the order of things in football these days: english fa assist chelsea & liverpool, but hate manutd with a passion. UEFA: love barca & frequently assist them. FIFA: love argentina & constantly tries to help them in the world cup.
Rio tweeted the ref was good last night lol.
I wanted Arsenal to win, even more I was hoping for extra time. Think Arsenal were hard done by by the sending off, a complete farce if I’m honest. Sick and tired of Barce this Barce that. Would love to beat them in the final and see the the pro dipper pundits after the game.
Thanks Costas.
I agree. Those stats support the very good first leg away game performance we had set out to achieve.
EddietheRed … got to agree with you mate… can’t stand the Barca Worship that’s been going on for sometime now. Charlie and others talking about them as being “the best football team of all time”.
I wouldn’t want to get them in the final but over two legs I fancy our chances to be able to do a job on them.
Gorse hill Red – Oh I agree entirely the wankfest makes me ill. Those fuckers shouldnt have even been in Rome when they clearly robbed the Rentboys at the bridge.
Off topic but I see fuck all is being said about Toure. Is it just gonna be swept under the carpet?
My reaction after watching Barca thumped the Arsenal was that referees in Europe are against English clubs going through as RVP’s sending off was blatantly unfair just like Carragher’s NOT being shown a red card against ManU. I now worry for ManU’s match next week against Marseille . Has the referee been chosen yet? Let it be one who secretly likes ManU, please!
@Dave Mack
Yeah it was one of those compact displays away from home in Europe that we started putting on from that season.
Arsenal didn’t know how to do that. Looks to me like they tried emulate Inter’s catenaccio from last season.
@willie
I think Carrick was very good on that night. As was Hargo on the right. Our midfield pair was the same pair we had at Anfield on Sunday. Who could have imagined…
Costas – Yeah he was mate. He was playing with confidence that night. United played a good game. Restricted Barcelona to half chances. Then, finished them off at OT, with a pearler from Scholes.
we can beat falselona!! i want them again in semies if we pass to there and we need all squad fit!
nothing is impossible!!
GoonerJ – I don’t see the consensus in the press about the decision. I do see a lot of press quoting Wenger and RVP.
Notorious and nikolaunited make a good point about our squad depth. At the moment, our team seems to have reached its breaking point. However, by the time April arrives (and with the returns of Rio, Ando, Park, Antonio, Owen and Nani), we could be talking about a different animal. One that could perform a lot better even away from home. I just hope we are still in at least 2 competitions by then. It would be a shame to get knocked out of the FA cup or the Ch.League because our squad was reduced (almost) to its bare bones during the toughest month of the season.
King Eric.
Too early to be definate,was flagged up couple of days ago by the Today at Old Trafford team so I am waiting with bated breath .Oh the joy of seeing him running up the pitch in our shirt again, long time since i been so excited (well since last night)
kanchelskis, tryder91- I’m not saying we’d beat them in midfield, that would only happen if Ando, Scholes and Fletch/Carrick were on top form, but looking at our defence, I’d trust them to keep a clean sheet and Chicharito/Berba could nick a goal for us.
Agree Arsenal were completely outplayed and Barca deserved to go through. I don’t think its right taking the p*ss given the week we’ve just had. You mention the fact that Arsenal have no leader, but where were our leaders against Chelsea and Liverpool.
Having been outplayed by the best team in Europe, I think Arsenal will still be more confident than we are on Saturday. Our rut seems a lot worse somehow.
Nothing changes the fact that when RVP was sent off Arsenal were going through, one goal would have put Barca out and they needed a penalty to qualify. For all their build up play 2 goals out of 18 attempts in open play isn’t as impressive as is being made out.
if anyone could beat them then its us or chelsea.. we have the best defence in the world when everyone is fit .. so i fancy barca…
everyone keeps talking about the final in 2009..when we got ‘destroyed’ by barca.. .even our fans.. how dare you.. in first 15 min of the game we had 5 clear chances to score..
and then 1 mistake from vidic and van der saar.( which was his second vidic’s mistake in the whole season ( first was vs liverpool) cost us the game never recover after that
well not had internet and been busy moving I can finally comment. Aint gonna type 2 much has its all been said, but not im[provong the midfield since 2009 has bitten united really hard
Hope one or two of the young lads gets some game time here. I know its a big game and would be a lot of pressure, but i think playing alongside an otherwise senior team in a big game does so much more for development than playing in carling cup with other reserves. Plus it may cool the doubters talk of the need for a complete overhaul, as i genuinely believe one of the reasons for lack of big name signings is the quality of the kids coming through
aig- Good to see you back here as well.
King eric
hello mate. I am good. How are you?
Been busy with work. Missed quite a few of our games as well. Read the articles ocassionally. Good to see you positive as always
I personally am disappointed really. Although Barca are immense, absolutely zero doubt about it, I’m disappointed because i think Arsenals game plan in the end would have overcome Barcelona. Arsenal played a very strict game very well up until Barcelona’s man in Arsenal made his major fuck up and even after that it was still all to play and i think Arsenal came out all right in second half and were able to put Barca under the slightest pressure and at that Barcelona freaked out and conceded at the first instance of it. As truly brilliant as Barcelona are at what they do, they were wasteful, i feel that Arsenal were very good in their game plan too and it’s an absolute shame that they weren’t allowed to see that game plan through until the end because don’t forget either that although they went on to score 2 goals they were just a terrible touch by Bendtner away from getting knocked out of Europe. I would have liked to have seen a full 90 minutes cause for me the Ref ended it by that terrible terrible decision when he sent Van Persie off. I’m a United fan but I’m sorry as a football fan and a fan of not only technical ability, grace and flair I’m a quite the fan of the tactical aspect of it too.
I thought Arsenal could have made it to be honest. They didn’t deserve to, and they were not the better side, but football is not about who deserves what and who is the better side. Crazy stuff happens all the time, and I thought Arsenal were due. The RvP sending off was a huge factor because Arsenal had banked on counter attacking football and without a counter attacker that was a non starter.
We can say Arsenal weren’t in it, but by that rationale we could almost say the same about Inter, but it was also said of Inter that they were perhaps the best team in the world under Mourinho. Any team playing Barca will be playing most of their football without the ball, that’s just a fact.
By giving Arsenal an excuse the referee protected them what might well have been considered a humiliating defeat. I think we might have to deal with some fierce consequences. However, that said, nobody does well after a European away game.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/03/09/2386443/every-decision-referee-massimo-busacca-got-wrong-and-right
if anyone still cares about bummers P .. hope we can trash arsenal in cup.. 4-0 anyone ?
Sorry mate, can’t agree with your assessment of the ref’s impact on the game. The number of cards per foul was strongly in Barcelona’s favour, with Arsenal earning around 1 card per 4 fouls while Barcelona conceded 8 (some of which were a bit cynical) and got 0. Yet another case of home bias in refereeing:
http://ideas.repec.org/p/spe/wpaper/0809.html
http://www.bentham.org/open/tossj/articles/V001/12TOSSJ.pdf
The statistical evidence for this is overwhelming and it’s becoming at absolute farce given how often the home teams get the majority of the decisions and how they end up shaping entire matches. Even more grating, though, is the type of decision that he had to make. This wasn’t a dangerous tackle, a potential dive or even persistent fouling. This was the referee making himself the most important man on the pitch by reducing a team who had not yet threatened in the slightest to ten men and virtually condemning them to a defeat. And for all the talk about the stats, the fact that Bendtner had a chance to win it at the death tells you that Barcelona, as well as they played last night, are fallible and will give goals away, particularly as the match progresses and their shape becomes more and more disjointed.
This is not to say Arsenal would have won, but just as United would certainly have been more incisive with Nani on the pitch in the second half on Sunday, this match would have panned out quite differently with van Persie (as odious a character as he is) on the pitch and if we are football fans before we are rivals enjoying a bit of schadenfreude, we should be incensed by the events of last night.
The sending off was idiotic. They’ll get no sympathy from me, but then again, I won’t laugh at them. In the end, every team is going to both benefit and suffer from bad decisions. I’m not sure it evens out over the long-term — it probably does in terms of the number of bad decisions you win or lose, but in terms of impact, it probably doesn’t. Against Barca, it’s hard to believe that sending off RVP made any real difference. Their only hope could have been that Barca would tire in the last 10 or 15. Maybe, maybe not. But generally speaking, one possession is that one-sided, it’s the team without the ball who tire first.
Barca can be beaten. Mourinho showed how last year — not just in the infamous second leg (which I actually thought was really fucking funny), but in the first leg too. The only trouble is, Arsenal couldn’t play that style of football even if they wanted to; we could, but probably wouldn’t to anyway (and no regrets there from me).
I actually find Barca’s ‘style’ very boring to watch. As I’ve said before, the only aspect of their game that I admire is their pressing to get the ball back. I can’t stand that smug cunt Messi. Listening to the wankers jack off about his goal yesterday was almost unbearable. “No other player in the world could have scored that goal…” Bullshit. I remember Berba scoring one just like it, juggling the ball one-footed and then side-swiping it in with the same foot. Can’t remember the match offhand but when I get a minute, I’ll trawl through You Tube and see if I can find it.
Fuck them anyway. I don’t care about Europe this year. And Barca’s time will come. The worm will turn, because it always fucking does. They have 2-4 years max before their engine room needs replacing, and then they will be in the same position as we are now with Giggs and Scholes. But by then, our own youngsters will be on the up. In the meantime, let them have Europe. If the best we can do over the next few years is win titles 19, 20 and 21, while continuing to reach at least the quarters or semis in Europe, I won’t be unhappy. Our day in Europe will come.
oops, I meant “But generally speaking, *when* possession is that one-sided, it’s the team without the ball who tire first”
Scott: I’m not an Arsenal fan, but I don’t think we would do better than Arsenal over two legs against Barca. We lost to the worst team last week to the same score Arsenal lost to Barca. Like Cesc did, our best player assisted Liverpool to score their second goal and our best keeper behaved like a rookie and rebounded to ball to the path of the opponent and that error resulted the 3rd goal. They worst player scored a HATTRICK against us. I think Messi would score 10 against us.
We’re the poorest offensive team in the Champions League and Valencia outplayed us in our own yard. I think we couldn’t score 3 goals the way Arsenal did and we would be overrun in OT 0-3 by Barca.
The worst thing is that this Barca team are great, but they got the whole EUFA officials on their side. The possession does nothing if you cannot score. Arsenal were resilient about 47mins until Barca scored. In the second half, Biscuits copied Diaby and headed the ball into his own net. Afterwards they were nervous, but the ref fucked up the whole thing. They robbed Chelsea in 2008, they tried to rob Inter last year and they robbed Arsenal last night.
I’ve counted 3 or 4 harsh fouls on Wilshere, Nasri and Fabregas. Abidal grabbed the neck of RvP (direct red), someone else grabbed the neck of Nasri (another red), but the ref was busy pulling yellow cards on fanny things like the ridiculous yellow card he gave to Sagna.
I really hate Arsenal. I hate their manager, and I hate their fans and the arrogant media that backs them, but Barca deserved to lose last night. They had possession of 85%+ but they were not as dangerous as after the dismissal of RvP, and I think Arsenal would have scored a goal in the 75th or 80th minute.
Finally, I think if we ever face them in the upcoming rounds, they will rob us. Refs will book our best players so they will be able to overrun us. I’m sure. Fuck Barcelona.
sure i would have loved to face arsenal but it would have been a massive injustice if arsenal went through. they were driven into the ground by a stunning barcelona side and barca also had clear decisions that didn’t go their way. messi’s disallowed first leg goal was in fact a good goal. and messi was hacked down by diaby in the box and he got away with it. Van persie shoved alves in the face early on and he was given only a yellow. why anyone is feeling pity for arsenal is beyond me. Robin van persie was also rightly sent off for kicking the ball away. of course he’s gonna say he didn’t hear the whistle and didn’t see the lineman’s flag go up he’s. even if he heard it he’s never going to tell you that he did. you do not just come to conclusions that he did not hear it. he had time to trap the ball and shoot it. some were saying he was still trying to get a good shot attempt. are you kidding me? the robin van persie that i know would never take a wild swing like that. he would cut inside and try to create a better opportunity for himself. I have no pity for arsenal and will never have pity for arsenal because if we were in this position we would have been battered by arsenal fans and the press. the better side clearly won. end of story.
Say what want, whoever beats Barcelona, will win the European cup. They’re the bench mark, for everyone else. Doesn’t worry that much anyway, I’m not fixated on the champions league. Give me the league and FA cup double, any day of the week.
@jemmie … not to be picky, but Arsenal didn’t actually score 3 goals, did they? They were credited with three, but one of those was actually an own goal by Barca. Arsenal can claim the benefit of it, but not the credit for scoring it.
@danny … I thought the second yellow was idiotic, but the others you mention are all good points. What I want to know is why UEFA haven’t charged RVP for his comments after the match. They got Whinger Wenger and Numpty Nasri, and quite rightly, but what RVP said was much worse than either of them.
Nasri and Wenger have been charged. Don’t know if Van Persie will be charged as well. He should be IMO.
We all know UEFA and Sepp hate the premiership so I’d expect some sort or response from them about the Tweets RE; the ref.
Yes Barca won the match and went through, but the scary thing is Barca werent even playing their A game. If the Barca who beat Real 5-0 turn up, then i dont think it matter if the ref had been on Arsenals side last night. As much as i hate to admit it, they are an awsome team and wont give many teams a chance to even get the ball let alone score when their on top form.
Arsenal though are complete bottle jobs, but come the weekend, itl be a tough game for us with our injuries atm. Vidic back will be a plus point, but with Giggs as our only match fit wide player itl make things difficult for us.
I can see Rooney on the left for us, Fletcher on the right and Giggs pushing through the middle like SAF has had him do recently.
Would be interesting to see JOS at RB and Rafael in RM. The kid loves to go forward and can show he can go past players and has good feet.
Jemmie- I think the first paragraph of your post is rubbish, sorry. We wouldn’t get so badly hammered by Barcelona, no way.
willierednut- Hi mate. If van Persie isn’t charged it is nothing less than diabolical. He can’t call the referee a joke and get away with it.
@statesideaussie thanks. and i also think RVP should have been the first to be charged. his comments were crazier than any other arsenal player’s comments.
Anytime Van Persie shoots with his right foot it’s time wasting.
@statesideaussie and danny.
Why do you want UEFA to charge V-persie?
If they charge V-persie, Ferguson will never be allowed to speak ever again.
Clive
Thank God for Twitter!
Otherwise, the effervescent personality of Arsenal’s finest would remain hidden inside their snood-covered heads and we’d never get to read the wonderful words of choir-boy Wilshere!
Stateside
Mate that goal was unbelievable…? To flick it over the goaly when 1 on 1 is some feat surely? Credit where it is due, Messi is an unreal player, definitely up there with the best ever. I´m in Argentina at the moment, and they tend to think he is a bit of a twat here, cos he so amazing for Barcelona, and absolutely shite for the national team. But he´s a player that relies on the others around him, getting the ball to him quickly in dangerous areas. Xavi is the best in the world at that. Never misplaces a pass, incredible range of passing, always seems to have time on the ball. It was his cross that hit Messi in the face and bounced into our net in Rome in 09. Very similar player to Scholes in his range of passing, but dare I say it, even better?
Anyway, fuck Arsenal. Got what they deserved after two blatant pens and a disallowed goal that shouldnt have been. If they are completely honest, if Messi had been on form for both games, and hit the target like he normally does in the league, it could have finished 15-3 on aggregate.
I thought Barca played the Arse off the park, Wenger is always looking for an excuse
in any game where is beloved artists get beat !!!!
He is totally deluded in thinking that Arsenal were unlucky, having said that the 2nd yellow
for kicking the ball away(deserved or not)is a joke, when Carragher got the same for
nearly taking Luis Nani’s leg off !!!!
I agree with other comments, you can keep the FA and Europe this year, i want the
19th so bad, after 40 years following United it would’nt and could’nt get better than that.
GoonerJ – Shit write up from a complete cunt. We may have lost to them in 09, but in the 4 games you have played against them, you haven’t even got close to beating them. At least we have stopped them scoring over two legs before (08) and that was with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in the side.
King Eric/WillieredNut.
Tony Valencia not even with the squad that’s a disappointment
Exactly Kings, at least we’ve beat Barcelona. Arsenal always have an excuse. The reality is, they’re not good enough.
Parryheid – What do we read into that? Maybe he’s being kept for Saturday? Hope so, anyway.
I can’t imagine how my fellow manutd fans most atime deflect the truth when we are not at the receiving end of a bad judgement. If it were to be our player that was wrongfully sent off, to have allegely heared the refs whistle for such defening sound coming out of camp Nou. Many would come here cry blue and daylight robbery. We should face our problem and see how we can better our own team cuz we don’t stand a change accomplish what arsenal almost did yesterday. My opinion though! We should look inward and speak the truth and not just coming on here to say annoying things when it’s not in our favor.
Jemmie – It is impossible to compare a two legged European tie to a game against your bitterest rivals away from home with 5 key players out. The Premier league and Europe are two VERY different animals.
aig – Yeah good thanks mate.
North Stand Tier 2 – No mate not having that. Xavi is a great player, yes, but not as good as Scholesy. Xavi plays the short game as do Barca which I find fucking boring if not effective for them. Scholesys “range” of passing is miles better. You rarely see Xavi hitting 50 yard balls. Sadly at the minute that is all we are doing. God we need our wingers and Park back. No outball at the minute.
That was delightful! I bet all the gooners who couldn’t stop laughing at the decisions at the Bridge finally got what they had coming to them
Barcelona were class last night, and it was an absolute joy to watch! Let’s crush whats left of their confidence this weekend
Look I have no time for Arsenal, can not stand them actually.
Barcelona were easily the best team on the night but that referee was a disgrace. He was obviously favouring Barcelona and that Van Persie decision was a joke.
If we as United fans choose to gloat when our foes are on the recieving end of some dodgy refereeing then we lose the right to be affronted when we are shafted by the Martin Atkinsons of the world.
North Stand … interesting to hear that people in Argentina think Messi’s a bit of a twat. Because he is. Great player, but still a twat. And yes, that was an excellent goal, but the commentators here were positively creaming themselves over it. I haven’t been able to find the Berbatov goal I was speaking of, but here’s one from when he was with Leverkusen against Roma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG64JkXA8ZU&feature=related
I’m not saying he’s better than Messi (though I do believe his first-touch control is as good as anyone’s I’ve ever seen). What I am saying is that the hype and the accolades are disproportionate. Looking at highlight reels of Berbatov, I would have to say that if some of those goals had been scored by Messi, the commentators would be openly masturbating on TV.
I’ll throw this out there too: watching the highlght reels of Berbatov, it never occurred to me before that he can take a good free kick. But there are a few on the reels, especially one or two from short-range, no power in the shot, just up and over the wall, with a nice line into the goal. Our dead-ball situations have been pretty ordinary this year. In fact, I remember one just recently that was very similar to one I saw on a Berbatov reel, right in front, just outside the box. I think Nani or Giggs blasted it into the wall. Maybe we should give Berba a shot sometime.
It was a near miracle that the Arse did not end up with a humiliating aggregate score over the two legs.
15-0 over the two legs would not have flattered Barcelona. You have to marvel at how hard Barcelona work to retrieve the ball though – on the rare occasions that they do surrender posession.
Not too sure how our slow-slow-quick-quick-slow patient euro style would fare against them.
Someone has still to answer my question
How do you beat Barcelona – what is their achilles heal?
How to beat Barca:
Outrun and out-muscle them.
Disrupt their midfield possession = cue Anderson, Fletcher, Valencia and Rafael
Fast break = cue Rooney, Nani, Chicha and Valencia
Ball retention skills = cue Berbatov, Nani and Valencia
Really wanted Barcelona to be knocked out of the CL… that would’ve given us a much better chance of winning it
United > Being anti-Arsenal
Thank-you Saad
Obviously favouring Barcelona? A stick on penalty and therefore mandatory sending of Not given yet you think that.I would take that referee any week compared to the shits that are currently doing our games.Lets see what the crooked buckled bastard tries on us this weekend,hopefully the fact we are at home makes him think what he does I don’t see why we should put up with it.
@MG
What do you think? Can we beat them? I truly believe we can, provided our key players are fit.
MG … the blueprint for beating Barca was invented and executed last year by Mourinho and Inter. I am just not sure we want to play that way (especially the tactics Inter used in the second leg at the Nou Camp). I don’t think there’s any way to beat them at their possession game. I think what you have to do is absorb the pressure and render them harmless. They want to pass the ball through you, but as Inter showed, they can only do that if you allow them to pull you out of position. If you have the discipline to resist that, they are less effective, but it’s hard to do for 90 minutes. Then you have to hit them on the counter, with speed and width. (I do think they look vulnerable to width.)
Mourinho would do anything to win, even if it means playing the ugliest brand of football.
I think United have a lot more quality and ability. We can beat them our own way.
Don’t know how you beat them, but Arsenal prove beyond doubt, on how not to go about It.
I’m an Arsenal fan but occasional reader of this blog and this sentence tickled me a bit:
“Rather than just accepting they weren’t good enough and they clearly have issues to address, they are wrongly blaming the referee for their defeat.”
Considering some of the stuff I’ve read on here recently, the irony was not lost on me.
Anyway I’m looking forward to Saturday, should be a cracking game hopefully.
Saad/MG … no, I don’t think we can beat them, not this year and maybe not next year either. Not over two legs, anyway. So call me defeatist. But here’s the problem: when they have the ball, it’s all one-touch stuff, which makes it very difficult to get the ball back, because you hardly ever get the chance to tackle. By the time you reach the player with the ball, he doesn’t have it anymore (which is one reason they win so many free kicks and decisions). If you want to get the ball back, then you have to anticipate where the ball is going to go — at least one pass ahead of where ti is now. And you’ll notice that so many of their passes are one-touches actually into space, but even before the ball is passed, the receiver is starting to run into that space. So everyone on their side is thinking at least one or two moves ahead. That allows them to execute the one-touch game, and makes it very difficult to fight. It’s not even easy to close them down, because it’s all short passes too.
And when they don’t have the ball, they are like a swarm of flies, which means that unless you are also playing a one-touch game, they will get the ball back.
I don’t mean to wax lyrical about Barca, because as I’ve said many times, their passing game bores the fuck out of me. But I am trying to illustrate the size of the challenge.
The logical outcome of all that, is that you probably can’t win the possession game against them. And the logical outcome of that, is that you have to play in a way where possession becomes less important than it usually is. To most teams, that would mean “park the bus”. But the genius (anti-football genius, if you like) of what Mourinho did was that he turned all this around on its axis: he realized that in attempting to get the ball off Barca, you inevitably get dragged out of position; and furthermore, if you do actually get the ball and then try to use it, you also get dragged out of position. So he basically instructed his players (in the second leg) to stay in position, not to seek the ball, and if it did come to them anyway, just to boot it back to Barca (up-field of course). He actually wanted Barca to have possession, because he knew that so long as his guys didn’t have the ball, and didn’t worry about getting it, they could focus exclusively on maintaining their defensive ranks … and if they did, it would be virtually impossible for Barca to score the 2 goals they needed to win the tie.
As I said before, I believe speed and width can work against them, I also believe that long diagonals can work catch them off-guard — the type of 60-yard cross-field pass that Scholes has made his trademark.
Saad ,,, yeah, I’m not arguing that he did was right. Tactically, it was brilliant. If I was fighting a war (a real one, with lives at stake), I would want someone like Mourinho on our side. For football? I don’t know. Is it better to “lose pretty” or “win ugly”? You might say that winning ugly is a bad thing. But in that case, would you be happier if we were mid-table in the PL right now? Because if we hadn’t been able to win ugly this season, mid-table is where we’d probably be right now.
These arguments about “beautiful football”, and the “right way to play”, and all the rest of it, have been raging ever since the game was invented, and they will never stop. “Beauty versus pragmatism”, eh?
United haven’t played great football for the last 12 months. That’s a red herring. There’s no way we could take Barcelona on at their own game. We’d get embarrassed. No lads, It would have to be anti football. Forget about it this season, we’re not playing well enough. That’s not being pessimistic, it’s being realistic. Having two of the best CH’s in the world is no good, if the midfield aren’t up to scratch. The way, as I see it, to beat Barca, you have to defend deep and hit them on the break. They’re not unbeatable, far from It, but you’d have to have all the players on top of their game, to stand any chance.
@StatesideAussie
I agree that you can’t beat them in the possession game. But here’s what I think.
1) I think you give them too much credit. They don’t think one or two moves ahead. What they have is an excellent philosophy built into them where all 10 outfield players are instructed to get themselves INTO position to receive a pass from the ball-holder. Their best quality is their mobility.
2) No, we can’t beat them in the ball possession game but they can’t hold onto the ball forever. And we do have in our ranks some of the best defenders on the planet. Once we get the ball, we would have to break fast and at the very least, drag them back into their own half. That’s where someone like Berbatov or Nani come in with their quick feet and ball retention skills. They just need to hold it long enough until someone like Rooney, Evra, Valencia, Rafael or Fletcher run forward to receive a pass.
3) I think Sir Alex’s United has shown that we can play beautifully and win ugly depending on the situation and form of the team. Maybe it’s coz of my red-tinted glasses but I believe no team counters as beautifully as United. And when we have our ideal team on the pitch (and we’re not being screwed over by the referee!!!
), we are the toughest team to beat.
StatesideAussie @ 14:44: “I actually find Barca’s ’style’ very boring to watch. As I’ve said before, the only aspect of their game that I admire is their pressing to get the ball back. ”
I am usually in agreement with your comments but I have to dissent here. What Barcelona do is press the ball AND keep the ball better than any team playing today. I especially appreciate how they “keep the ball” – sure, lots of it is tippy-tappy/tikka-takka but what needs to be appreciated is that they are always looking for a quick smash-and-grab which, like the Villa goal last night, usually involves two or three wall passes and the last man has a clear sight of goal. To do this successfully requires a high level of skill and team-work.
As an aside, I grew up in ice hockey-mad Canada in the 1950s and 1960s when it was assumed that “our game” was so vastly superior that anything less than a complete pasting would be a victory for an other team. The surprise Canuckleheads got when the Soviets won the first game in the 1972 Canada Cup was only something you could understand if you had been there. In contrast to the bare-knuckle “fire wagon” style of the Canadians, the Soviets played the same possession game as Barcelona – and they won the first game 7-3, after spotting the Canadian All-Stars a two goal advantage.
The point of this aside is that there are many different ways to play the game – and if Barcelona are allowed to play keep-ball then they will almost-always make their possession count. Allied to this point is the fact that Barcelona do it with small, highly-skilled guys – no “broth of a lad” like Andy Carrol but little squirts like Paul Scholes whose work effort is quite incredible. I think that the decline in Scholes’ work effort – allied to the relatively passive game that MichaelCarrick plays – is at the heart of UTD’s difficulties.
TheLads are a “passing team” and to be successful in that way there has to be huge expenditures of energy which is somehting Paul Scholes no longer has and MichaelCarrick never had. This was made blatantly evident in last weekend’s game at AnFailed; Having runners from midfield in Miereles (who is a much, much better player than I had assumed from only watching him in the natioinal team) and Maxi (who is really a waste of space) repeatedly cut the UTD defence open. In repsonse, the once-and-former GingerNinja and Michael Carrick looked like two pylons on a training ground.
Back to last night – Scott’s statistics are really compelling. No shots, two touches in the box – what a feeble effort by TheArse. Fabregas’ “backheel” was wonderful – I was bathed in a shower of schadenfreude to see him give the ball away in leading to Barcelona’s first goal. And this guy is the team captain of ArsenalFC ! What a pathetic joke.
Finally, my admiration for Jack Wilshere just grows and grows – he might very well be a “gobby little shite” as someone wrote earlier but he’s a fucking excellent footballer. If we talk about a Scholes/Keane-o replacement then this guy would be at the head of my list.
Oh, yeah, did anyone else see Daniele De Rossi’s unpenalized elbow on Dario Srna ? Some people were disgusted but it just confirmed my opinion that De Rossi is the guy for us – “lo though he walks through the valley of the shadow of death, he fears no evil because he is the meanest son of a bitch in the valley”. Not even Schweini can match De Rossi’s “compete level”. The guy just hates losing – and especially hates it when his team is getting the mickey taken on them. Sound like an absolute value-for-money transfer target ?
Was it really a pathetic sending off? Wrong maybe? No it wasnt either, I’ll grant you it was harsh RVP may claim he didn’t hear a whistle and he may be right but he knew he’d been flagged or why would a player of his undoubted skill lash a shot so woefully off target, nah he knew allright and the whistle thing is his defence, he’s lost his cool and got a yellow card for slapping someone which the ref didn’t see clearly or he would have gone for that (and after Wenger telling him to calm down) so he he gets caught offside and then realises he’s fucked up (now I dont need Arse fans coming back at me about Rooney this thread is about RVP) and tries like any player to plead his innocence, sorry RVP just like Fabregas Arses two best players fucked it up.
It also puts into perspective Nasri’s comments about us being scared to play them and so we set up to stop them playing, no Nasri we set up to win against you, just like Inter did to Barca last year, Arsenal however now think they can outplay any team on the planet, but last time I looked Birmingham won the cup the other Sunday and Barca fucked em last night toodaloo motherfuckers!!!!
Matt – Spot on mate.
@willie, I agree totally. And Saad, I think what we’re saying isn’t so far away from what you’re saying either: sit deep and hit them on the counter. I do disagree with your first point, though. Watching them closely, it seems obvious to me that when one player gets the ball, he has already decided where he’s going to place it (he has to have done so, otherwise he would need more than one-touch). But even before he makes that touch, someone else is already running into the space where it’s gonna go. It’s noticeable that so often, their players are running onto the ball — and that when they do so, they are in space. That’s why the defenders get moved around so much, because they are chasing — but they are chasing shadows. And of course, it is that movement of the defenders which eventually ends up with them out of position.
Anyway, I am not so concerned about it. While I would like us to win everything, every year, we have to be realistic too. This year, I don’t believe we are good enough to beat them, but I’ll be happy if we win the PL #19. I can live with that. And Barca’s day will come. You have to think of these things in cycles that ebb and flow. Right now, our team is in a ‘dip’, because our mainstay players, the backbone of our team for so long, are aging, and our youngsters haven’t yet reached the point where they can take over. But they will get there, sometime over the next two or maybe three seasons. By that time, however, Barca will have peaked. Xavi is 31 now, and he’s the heart of that midfield.
Of course, they too have youngsters coming through, but their need for change is a few years beyond ours, which is now. And their transition to replacements for guys like Xavi won’t be any easier than ours is now. That’s why I walk about cycles: by the time Barca need to transition, ours will likely be in place already, whereas theirs will only just be starting.
All this is a few years off. In the mean time, my ambitions for us are to win PL #19, and win numbers #20 and #21 too. If we can keep winning two out of three PL titles, pick up the occasional FA Cup and Craling Cup (because I consider the Carling Cup essential to our transition plan), and keep reaching the quarters and semis of the CL, that will do me as preparation while the next great, home-grown United side finds its feet. Cheers!
#denton … I think the only thing we disagree with is in our appreciation (or otherwise) of Barca’s passing game. Do I respect it, and admire it? Sure I do. But enjoy it? No, I personally don’t, but that’s just me. Their pressing game, though, that’s something else. That, I appreciate, admire and enjoy. As for de Rossi, I can’t/won’t comment because I just don’t see enough of these non-United players to offer any sort of informed opinion. With all the travel that I do, it’s all I can manage to watch every United game (which I do!). I have heard he’s very good, though, and he seems like a good age and plays in the right position. The only players I have seen a bit of, are Sneijder and Bastian the Beast, and I like both, but won’t enter into any arguments about their merits versus anyone else! I observe and often learn from those arguments when other people engage in them, but won’t take part myself. I will say, though, that based on what I’ve heard about our the young talent that will be coming through in the next few years, I do hope we don’t go into the market and buy more than one established player in. Cheers mate!
yeah, top post, Matt.
The other thing I would say about Barca is that they really do not appear to have a Plan B. Now, they would say that’s a matter of principle, that they refuse to play any other way, but I think that’s tosh. Even if it’s true, it’s still tosh, because any team that has only way to play is always vulnerable to anyone who can put them off that game. That’s why they flundered against Inter last year: Inter may have played negatively, but they neutralized Barca — and Barca didn’t have any options but to keep trying the same thing. Which, as Einstein said, is the definition of insanity.
Scott you give united fans a bad name by posting an article like this. It definitely made a difference to the game, Arsenal were doing well to soak up the pressure, and got a lucky goal. Give them a break, it was a terrible decision and the ref ruined the game by giving Barca the benefit of the doubt with regards to most decisions. If this had happened to Utd you wouldnt have the same point of view. give it a break, they got battered but definitely couldve ‘STOLEN’ a result, not deserved one. very poor article.
Don’t agree Mourinho set the blueprint how to beat them. United did back in 08.
The sending off in my opinion had absolutely NO bearing on the game. Arsenal couldnt get out of their own half for fuck sake for the entire first half. It was embarrassing to watch. The gooners will get no sympathy from me I am afraid. Do you think we would get any? No would we fuck.
I think It was a good article. Why should Scott, a United fan, have any sympathy for one of our rivals? As has been said, the cunts glorified in our defeats, so fuck them.
willierednut – Hear hear mate.
pot calling kettle black.
Arsenal were terrorised, they were torn to peices by Barcelona who in all fairness are a cut above the rest, they are the best footballing side ive ever seen. It makes me laugh how people compare Arsenal to Barcelona, they are nowhere near barca’s standard there are absoulutely no similarites between the two.
However, the ref made a shocking choice with Van Persie really feel for the lad, arsenal would of lost regardless as they were being bullied anyway but refs give clubs the chance to pin the blame elsewhere when they do things like that, it was never a bookable offence, Van Persire didnt even look up to see the goalkeeper had stopped playing.
Gutted arsenal didnt win to be honest, if we come up against Barca (providing we go through) we will get fucked.
King Eric, yes, good point. My memory is letting me down a bit, but as I recall, we beat them largely on the back of a stoic display marked by sterling defense — and a certain Wes Brown had something to do with that in the return leg (stood in for Vidic, didn’t he?), along with Rio and Evra. But if Mourinho didn’t invent the blueprint, he certainly replicated it!
Brown was fucking immense in the second leg. As were all our defenders.
MUFCOK @ 19:13: ” Barcelona who in all fairness are a cut above the rest, they are the best footballing side ive ever seen.”
I can’t really dispute this suggestion but I would think that in comparison to, say, the ACMilan teams of the late 80s and early 90s (and the LiverPoo teams under Paisley) they have not really dominated EuroFootie. Sure, they’ve been bloody good but they’ve not dominated the rest – they were beaten by UTD in 2008 and by Inter in 2010 and it’s hardly a foregone conclusion that they will win the CL this year – not every team will be as full of trepidation as TheArse. But, no question, on their day and with their full first-team, they have been “a cut above the rest” over the past four years – but NOT dominant.
StateSideAussie @ 19:19: ” if Mourinho didn’t invent the blueprint, he certainly replicated it!”
The display by Inter at the Nou Camp was much easier than UTD’s draw there the year before; Inter were able to sit on a two-goal lead so that they had a cushion whereas UTD worked much harder to get out of Barcelona with a draw. THAT was a real “squeaky bum” game.
@denton… right. they have been in dominant in their own league, but as we all know, that’s a two-horse affair anyway.
Midweek game, long journey,less time to recover.Lovely.
denton davey – He might be talking about his life time. For me, It’s the Milan team, of the 90′s. They had the Dutch trio and then the great Van Basten. That defense they had, were immense as well. Just a great side, that played great football.
a gooner – You can see there’s a difference between how fans react to a result and how players react, right?
I fully expect Arsenal fans to complain. It’s a different thing when several of your players are crying about it.
Thanks everyone for the replies
I believe that the only way to play Barcelona is to do what earlier sides of United used to do
Namely get into their faces as suggested
The thing is Owen Hargreaves was a certain player to do that – Fletch has been overworked this year and is tired and his game shows – hopefully rest here and there will bring him some belief.
Also to soak them and then counter attack them is the best option
Thing is our Mr. Incredible has unfortunately had an absolute shocker of a season and though he has come back into lately – not sure if he can raise his game like last year
My point? That if our players prepare to the top of their game we have more than a chance
If we don’t…
We put up with fans of other clubs coming on here gloating when we lose, so why wouldn’t we laugh at their losses. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Think the most telling stat of last night was no shots on target. That alone shows lack of ambition. Don’t buy into the hype of barca being greatest team, watch the spanish football and majority of time it’s barca attacking for 80 minutes, and the other team lookng scared to have the ball. Seen valencia, espanyol an not many others get stuck into barca and give better performances. Think they did deserve to win last night, and with our midfield as shaky as it is wouldn’t particularly like them in next round, but to be the best you got to beat the best.
MG … ah, Owen Hargreaves. What a tragedy. It’s the great “what might have been”, sadly. I know, from comments made by both him and SAF at the time, that the reason SAF wanted him so badly was because of his ability (his energy, and his great positional sense) to do the work, in effect, of two players; SAF’s plan was that by having Hargo in the MF, doing the work of two, that would free us up to keep two wide *and* still have two strikers up front … 442 where the two in the middle are effectively three given Hargo’s immense abilities and stamina. But now I am resigned to the fact that it will never be. Sad, truly sad.
@mattbw7 EXCELLENT POST MAN SIMPLY EXCELLENT!!! you have just buttressed the point i have been trying to make all along.
and i acknowledge some of the points on how we can beat barcelona however i do not think that sitting back and hitting them on the counter will do us any favours. arsenal tried it yesterday and it failed miserably. they know how to keep the ball for incredibly long periods and will just keep passing sideways and back until we come out to press and then they play an incisive pass. the formation i recommend we go with is a 4-5-1 formation. jampack the midfield and see what happens. also when they have the ball we drop back and defend like our lives depend on it. we did it against arsenal in december and it worked very very well. and when we get the ball we just play the way we normally do. no reason to be afrad of barcelona. they are the best side in the world but if we are determined and focused we can pull it off. also Michael carrick must play no part in proceedings. hehe.
@dannysoya … sitting back and countering can be effective against Barca, or against anyone. The Arse were well and truly shown up yesterday … but even so, let’s not forget that if they had had a striker with any more quality than that fuckwit Bendtner, The Arse may well have won. Do you think Chicharito or Berbatov would have squandered that chance? I don’t, and it would have been enough. So even with 10 men and no possession, Arsenal came close … which is no credit to them, merely an illustration that Barca are susceptible to a fast-breaking counter. And isn’t that what we have also shown against the Arse ourselves? I seem to remember several great, fast, counter-attacking goals that we scored against them in recent years. Cheers!
Stateside. Spot on mate. People seem to forget that this mighty barca would have been out but for the piss poor technique and ability of bendtner. Hernandez indeed would have buried it but more importantly so would van persie.
@ Denton Davey
I understand where your coming from mate I suppose your right in terms of actual success other teams have been more dominant, but i’ll re phrase, the style of football they play is the best ive ever seen, Xavi / Iniesta could tear apart any team, then you throw in Messi, not mention Villa…. All over the pitch they are just top class not just as individuals but as a team, I like how they have produced so much local talent aswell proves it can be done effectivley aswell. suppose its easy to forget how good previous teams are though.
Yeah was a harsh sending off and possibly changed the game but that’s happened too often with united for me to feel sympathetic. Get over it u gooners
MUFCOK @ 0:11 – I don’t disagee with the revised version. No question about their level of success in key competitions over the last four-five years. Their team-work IS outstanding – both in regards to harrying/harassing the ball and then keeping it while others run into space. And while they have a lot of home-grown players, they have also spent lavishly on complete failures like Chygurinski (sp ??) and then cut their losses without batting an eye.
For both Barcelona and RM, the “financial doping” issue is very important – unlike UTD and TheArse and RentBoyz, for instance, these two keep almost all of the television revenue and get preferential treatment from government sponsored loans. In reality, only UTD and TheArse and Bayern Munich (form among the Big14) are successfully operated like businesses that don’t rely on government subsidies or a sugar-daddy to make their payments and payroll. I bring up this point because it is obviously a key component of their success – not as important as having excellent coaching and on-field players but without the “financial doping” they would be hard-pressed to have purchased David Villa or to have kept some of their other stars.
The stability of Barcelona’s playing squad is under-written by the super-injections of ca$h from outside their normal revenue streams. It’s not exactly like they’re competing on a level-playing-field but, on the other hand, when they are in-form and on-song then the playing-field also tilts downhill for them as a result of their defensive and offensive excellence and team-work.
BUT, to be the best you should want to beat the best – and this is the challenge that other teams face. UTD beat them over two legs in 2008 and then lost in a CL final in 2009. I, for one, would relish the chance for TheLads to have another go at them with a fully-fit squad. Preferably over two legs because that is the real test of a team’s mettle – or not, as TheArse so dismally failed to rise to the challenge when they were a goal ahead and then, later, when they had the away-goal advantage but in both cases were unable to display the bottle needed to compete.
An article on Fergie v/s the media, however pro United for a change
http://www.thehardtackle.com/index.php/man-united%e2%80%99s-corner-scot-ferguson-vs-the-world/
I’m really annoyed at the bias of this. Van persie did not deserve a red for a face slap on Alves. There was nothing in it, and Alves is a greater exaggerater than even Nani. Barcelona were the better side, but Arsenal would have been favourites to go through had RVP stayed on the pitch. Arsenal were leading the tie. Barca managed one goal in 70minutes, thus they would have a 30% to score an equaliser in the last 20mins, but they needed to score twice. It is the worst decision I have ever seen. Most awful decisions are forgivable because mistakes can be made. This was a decision that was unforgivable, it’s impossible for a referee to have misinterpreted what he saw. He knew exactly what Van persie had done and still made the decision. It’s different when a referee sees a foul where there was none because that’s an honest mistake.
Suarez was not given a yellow against United when he drop kicked the ball up the pitch in anger long after the whistle had gone. Few referees would give a second booking for having a shot on goal shortly after hearing the whistle, nevermind a mere 1 second after a whistle that had not been heard. In practice second bookings require a more serious offence (despite the rules not saying so). Maybe he deserved a second yellow for the foul on Messi and the referee was trying to make up for missing that. The mentioned Ronaldo decision was harsh, but you can’t blame Webb because it’s very unusual to handball it in such a way.
Any rational united fan should have been rooting for Arsenal. Not just because being drawn against Barca will be a horrifying prospect for United compared to being drawn against Arsenal but because Barca are the most sickeningly loved club for their success whilst United are the most hated. Nani gets vehemently hated for exaggerating injuries occassionally (but rarely ever diving), Alves and Iniesta and Busquets get loved for their deliberate cheating. Neville gets hated for being passionate, Puyol gets loved. There’s no club I hate more than barcelona. And any fan of english football should want english clubs to do well (as Ferdinand tweeted).