Owen Hargreaves has been named in Manchester United’s 25-man Champions League squad, as has new signing Obertan and plenty of youngsters, but there is no place for Zoran Tosic.
The Serbian winger featured heavily in our pre-season but hasn’t played for United since the friendly against Valencia at Old Trafford at the beginning of August.
1.Van der Sar, 2.Neville, 3.Evra, 4.Hargreaves, 5.Ferdinand, 6.Brown, 7.Owen, 9.Berbatov, 10.Rooney, 11.Giggs, 12.Foster, 13.Park, 15.Vidic, 16.Carrick, 17.Nani, 18.Scholes, 20.Fabio, 21.Rafael, 22.O’Shea, 24.Fletcher, 25.Valencia, 26.Obertan, 27.Macheda, 28.Gibson, 29.Kuszczak.
Additional players registered (UEFA rules permit any player born on or after 1 January 1988 who has been eligible to play for the club for any uninterrupted period of two years since his 15th birthday to be registered outside of the 25-man squad limit): 8.Anderson, 19.Welbeck, 23.J.Evans, 31.C.Evans, 33.Hewson, 36.Gray, 37.Cathcart, 38.Zieler, 39.Chester, 40.Amos.
Man Utd News 24/7
Strange. Would have thought Tosic would be in there too.
Also a bit worrying to see Ando included with what are basically our reserve players.
height?
He’s been registered outside the squad limit,so we basically get Ando,a first-teamer,extra.
Just realised that Kiko now has a first team number.
i rate him as a player
hit the gym a bit, get some weight so he cant be pushed off the ball so easily
get him played fergie, pick 4 midfield players and stick with them
5ft 7in.,GHTT.Only 3 inches taller than me lol.
i know 4 sure , i would rather tosic in the squad than hewson , also he did look bright in pre-season … strange that ??
Is he going out on loan?
Evans is there with Ando as well, so now reason to be worried about that.
its worryin coz obertan’s in there and he won’t be fit for another 2 months. First became apparent that maybe fergie doesn’t rate him when he was left out of the squad to play burnley in favour of playin ando out of position. Its a shame coz i’ve liked the bits i’ve seen of him. Would read anythin into ando bein on the additional list, so’s johnny evans and he’s defo rated
Does seem a bit strange but who could you realistically drop from the current 25 to accommodate him? Only possible one is Obertan, Fergie must think pretty highly of him to include him over Tosic when he’s not even played yet.
we got 2 first-teamers extra: Jonny Evans and Anderson.
kind of strange not to see Tosic’s name, when names like Obertan are on and i thought Tosic was already integrating into the squad. A possible loan-out?
That’s a worry.
Adds weight to the story that Tosic was signed just to convince Llajic
Them players which include Reserves and Anderson/Welbeck are included outside of the 25 squad limit, which means Fergie can pick 25 plus people who meet the requirements are automatically included.
So the “it’s worrying Anderson has been named with reserves” or “I’d rather Tosic than Hewson” comments don’t make sense.
Both he and Ljajic were signed for a large sum of money, and it is worrying that 8 months on, Tosic still hasn’t got what I’d call a sniff of the first team.
It’s not like he is a youngster, he is 22 and should be playing first team football now, not stuck in the reserves.
Perhaps they feel more work is needed with regards physical development, but he looks developed enough to me and I could name physically smaller players in the squad.
There really have to be questioned asked now over his longterm United future, and questions asked of the scouts who recommended him in the first place.
The Anderson thing isn’t that he is a ‘reserve’, its due his date of birth isn’t it?
Obertan even ahead of Tosic? Are you guys even sure he is fit?
I thought he looked quite decent in Pre-season. Why are there so many defenders anyway, would of liked Pettruci to be named.
Cathcart’s in the squad, but I thought he’d been loaned out to Newcastle? Surely there’s a mistake somewhere as Tosic should be included
According to the UEFA rules mentioned, he can’t be included in the extras. He hasn’t played for United for 2 years uninterrupted. So Tosic would have had to be included in the 25-man squad. We have 3 goalkeepers in that main squad, which perhaps could have been limited to 2 and then there would have been place for him in the main squad. Kuszczak could then have easily been added to the extras squad.
I would have definitely liked him to be in the squad as both Hargreaves and Obertan are doubtful starters for the near future at least.
why are ppl talking about height?
when fergie brought him has he hoped that tosic grow taller or what.
what’s the point to buy foreign players if you never gonna play ‘em.
I’m puzzled.
Tosic is 22 and he had a good preseason. I can’t rationalize this decision, hopefully SAF can shed some light.
Then again, it might be because SAF wants to keep him playing for the EPL and English cups ?? He do tend to divide the team in two when the CL kicks in.
I don’t know why but i remember Fergie saying he needs to beef up. Ando and Jonny must have something to do with their DOB coz Evans is definitely our third choice centre half ahead of brown and Oshea
No De Laet either. Strange one regarding Tosic. Perhaps SAF doesn’t think he has “bulked up” enough yet.
5 goalkeepers but no Tosic..
this squad is for how many games can anyone please tell me.
tosic one is shocking. but happy for macheda. i am also eager to see oberton.
Anderson was born after 1January 1988. But so were the Da Silva’s and Macheda?
Swe United – Good point, FIVE keepers.
ash – It will be for the whole campaign.
I was delighted with Tosic in pre-season i am confused by his omission. I wanted to see alot more of him this year and now it seems like that isn’t going to be likely.
As for Anderson this seems like a decline or slippery slope for him if he doesn’t improve his attitude on and off the field, he needs to put in a bigger effort on the pitch and run and try hard not just stroll around.
I am a big fan of Ando’s but he has to lift alot more to stay in the team.
I’m not at all suprised about Anderson. They guy is bush league.
I’m disapointed Evans isn’t in the line up. He’s been a rock every game. I’d take him any day over Brown.
Hargreaves is in! Big news. He’s gonna wipe the pitch with everyone he plays once he’s back!
so that means no tosic in champs league this season.
guys dont hate me but fergie has gone crazy. there can only be two reason y fergie hasnt picked him.
1. he must be that bad a player that he doesnt suit in united.
but then y fergie bought hm
2. which i think can be a good reason is that tosic has a attitude problem.
but even this also doesnt seem to work out.
i hope fergie isnt spoiling him.
ash
he could easily be going on loan
As I have said he could be going on loan, maybe abroad?
I bet Tosic and Ctrl Alt De Laet will be going on loan somewhere
simples
gotta hate – “simples” . Did you say you liked that when someone had finished their post “simples”? Was it theboogeyman?
RedDevilledEgg – Evans IS in the lineup, as is his brother.
but its no point sending thetwo bright talents on loan. tosic is already 22 he should be playing by now . if he hAs to prove then he should prove by staying in united rather than going abroad.
i forgot about de laet. wats the point in keeping 5 goalkeapers.
in pre season tosic was great. i hope this is a wrong squad.
The reason Evans and Anderson are in with the “reserves” is because they have been eligible to play for the club for 2 consecutive years since their 15th birthday. This is not the case for Obertan as he’s only just signed. Therefore, Obertan wouldn’t qualify for the “additional” selection of players. Strange about Tosic though.
Obertan picked ahead of Tosic is a really weird choice. Realistically neither is likely to feature in the knockout rounds unless they improve a ton this year so it would just be for the group stage and Obertan is still coming back from injury and who knows if he will even be available for the group stages. Bit of an odd one I must admit. I also thought Tosic had a good preseason and he played very well with the Serbian national team just recently, so I’m disappointed he isn’t getting more time with the first team.
Amazed how many people can’t get their head around pretty simple squad rules. Anderson and Evans are only on the additional ‘B’ list because they fit that criteria (born after 1/1/88, have spent two years uninterrupted with us), and we can therefore add two other players to the ‘A’ list who wouldn’t have met the ‘B’ list criteria – the twins for instance, or Kiko. A List and B List players are all eligible to play so being on the B List is no reflection of status within the squad or being out of favour.
Someone said we could have put Kuszczak on the additional list and put Tosic on the A List – Kuszczak wasn’t born after 1/1/88 was he?
Tosic’s omission is strange, but could be easily explainable. Maybe we thought we had a loan move abroad/within the Prem lined up for him, submitted the squad and then the move fell through? Alternatively, perhaps more unlikely, we could be looking to loan him to a Championship side when the loan window re-opens next week.
I find it hard to believe Obertan would be preferred to him when the Frenchman is out for another six weeks and will surely take a good few weeks after that to get up to full fitness, let alone into contention for the first-team.
PEOPLE, read the article!!
Fabio & Raphael are also born after 1988, BUT they have not been playing at United for two years or more. Thus, to be included in the squad, they would have to be part of the original 25.
Anderson and Evans however, are born in 1988 but have also been playing for the club for at least two years. THEREFORE, they can be put into the other category outside of the original 25.
It’s just Fergie’s way of getting the maximum number of the best players. So don’t pay any attention to which category they are in.
Guys it really simple why Tosic and De Laet are out and Ando is the additional list.
If you have noticed, guys who can be in the additional list are players under 21 who have been at United for atleast 2 years.
So, to accommodate Tosic and De Laet, they have to be in the main list and can’t be in the additional list.So, Fergie rates Obertan > Tosic and Fbio/Rafael > De Laet.
Also Ando and Jonny Evans being in the additional list is just a trick to use the rules to push more youngsters into the team who wouldn’t fit into the additional list (Fabio, Rafael, Macheda, Obertan)
I’m confused totally by our handeling of players like Tosic, who is after all a full international who has scored goals for club and country (2 from 15 full internationals, and 14 in 49 appearances for Parizan Belgrade). Obertan has not made a single appearance in a red shirt but gets in ahead of Tosic. That kind of thing usually gives the message that ‘we want you on your way son’.
But this kind of discussion about young players we have had at this club over the last ten years or so is a recurring theme-
Sir Alex has especially talked up our youngsters for the last three seasons now. Probably in response to the questions and frustrations fans are starting to feel concerning our youth policy – especially as many of us have seen superb performances by our youth and reserve players on MUTV for many years now.
He has also said at the beginning of each of these seasons that they have an important role to play and we will see a lot more of them. It seems that this season, as in the others, he means we will see a lot more of them on the team bus and sitting in the stands with their United blazers and ties on.
What on earth is happening with Macheda for example. It seemed certain he was our ‘official’ 4th striker this season and I haven’t seen him out of his shirt and tie. No wonder he is now starting to make noises about returning to Italy. We have another Rossi on our hands, another player who was praised to high heaven, we were promissed we would see a lot more of him – and he left because he wasn’t getting any games in the first team.
Possebon is already on that familiar path out of the club – another player with so much potential, but lacking in first team exposure and experience. So he is loaned out…never to return probably.
We have seen so many other clubs producing young players that have or are breathing fresh air into their first 11′s. Arsenal is an obvious example, but Villa, Tottenham, Everton, West Ham – even less fashionable clubs like Blackburn, Liverpool and City – have been giving young players the chance to perform for extended number of games and in many cases providing youngsters that go on to play regular international football.
I see our fantastic facilities, the scouting network we have that operates in countries all over the world – and wonder why the only youngsters I can think of that have made it at this club since 1999 are Wez, Fletcher (hopefully now) and Jonny Evans? Contrast that with other clubs like the ones mentioned above, teams like Barcelona, and the top Italian, French, Spanish and German clubs – what on earth are we doing wrong, because we have to admit it now, our accademy has, and is still failing miserably to establish young players in our first team squads.
we can chop and change later in the season so if tosic does find his way into the first team then he can be slotted in.
it still doesn’t make any sense to me. it’s got to be a huge kick in the teeth for the lad as well. but i suppose we’re not working with him week in, week out.
Obertan scores the winner in the champions league final
everybody is over joyed and thinking man next season will be even better when we get tosic back off loan
Both De Laet and Tosic proved what they are worth during Pre season football. Could be that both are to be loaned, Hope we do not lose them.
Excellent questions , RedC, although I would soften the implicit criticism by pointing out that last season Welbeck, Raphael and Fabio had reasonable opportunities, plus Macheda, as well as Evans. I think the problem is that Fergie is under so much pressure all the time to deliver trophies, not least from himself, he’s lost his nerve when it comes to playing young players in. It’s part of the same problem of his tactics at times, when he’s too cautious and , like the Arsenal match, plays Rooney up front, all alone, packing his midfield. Personally I wanted Berba up there with Rooney, but I would also liked to have seen Macheda at least on the bench. It’s time to unleash him from time to time. As has been said, it looks like the Rossi story all over again. It seems United is drifting towards becoming a ‘percentage’ team these days.The Tosic case is a bit sad, but having seen him in the U-21 internationals, I’m less surprised at his ommission. He doesn’t look big, strong or tough enough, and does need to literally ‘shape up’.
Its amazing how stupid people are that they have to be explained for upto 10 times. Did I read someone asking why Kuszcak wasn’t put in the additional squad?
I rate Obertan higher than Tosic, not surprised.
Meant to add, I’m really sad that De Laet isn’t on the list. He looked great against Hull last season, got pace, guts, and drive. From reports he’s shown promise in other games. Come on Fergie, why 5 goalkeepers but not a promising full-back? Doesn’t make sense.
This squad is only for the Group stages of the Champions League. It can be changed for the knockout stages later. I overlooked the age factor for the extras earlier. Sorry about that. I was trying to make the point that 5 goalkeepers seemed to be too many.
RedC – seriously, talk about an overreaction!
You point out Arsenal as some kind of example we should be looking to follow – how many of their regular XI are homegrown? You mention Liverpool – who have they brought through?! None of the clubs you mention have been particularly prolific when it comes to blooding youngsters, bar perhaps West Ham. You also don’t seem to realise that it’s a lot harder these days to blood youngsters when you’re a top 4 club competing for honours than it is for a mid-table outfit. Just look at how City were relying on their academy pre-takeover and will now quite likely absolutely neglect it.
We had 10 young players making debuts last season, a number of those going on to make significant contributions (Evans, Welbeck, Macheda, Gibson, the twins). Quite how anyone can say our academy is failing miserably I don’t know. You mention ‘frustrations that our fans are starting to feel concerning our youth policy’ – any fan feeling frustration regarding our youth policy needs to show some bloody patience frankly. If you can find me another top club (bar possibly Barca) who gave as many opportunities to young players as we did last season then I’ll be very surprised.
Oh, and to start snarking about how Macheda’s making noises about returning to Italy, as if that’s somehow a response to not appearing in THE FIRST FOUR GAMES OF THE SEASON, is ridiculous. Read the interview with Macheda, rather than just the sensationalist headlines – he says he’d quite like to return to Italy ONE DAY, but for now is very happy in Manchester.
Surely they could have put Gibson as an additional player to accommodate Tosic, and dropped Gray, Hewson or Corry Evans.. these guys are not going to appear this year..
I hope there is a reasonable explanation for this.. People saying he’s short, what has that got to do with anything? Owen is short too..
I think Tosic will do well again for Serbia this week.. He can’t be so rubbish that he can’t get in front of the guys mentioned above
Also to clear up the 5 keepers thing…
We have 3 main keepers VDS, Foster, Kuszczak:
NONE of them FITS to the B category as they are too OLD.
Amos and Zieler are there because they are eligible accordingly to rules and are not taking any spots. There is no possibility to put instead of one of them tosic, de laet, d’artagnan, atos, aramis, portos or whoever you would like.
And having VDS injured and Foster often having injury problems I would always want to have back up goalkeeper in Kuszczak then in youngster without playing experience. Nevermind the group stage. The knock out stage is the one that counts.
Tosic is 22 omiting him is not end of the world. Maybe SAF has vision how to play his team in CL games and Tosic doesn’t fit that. It can also mean that when others will be rested in CL he will be played. But having on mind that he is small and not to strong yet this is weak argument.
Giles Oakley – “Meant to add, I’m really sad that De Laet isn’t on the list. He looked great against Hull last season, got pace, guts, and drive. From reports he’s shown promise in other games. Come on Fergie, why 5 goalkeepers but not a promising full-back? Doesn’t make sense.”
Look, people are getting the wrong end of the stick with this ‘OMG FIVE GOALIES’ thing too. De Laet couldn’t be named on the additional players list, so Amos and Zieler’s inclusions are irrelevant – they’re essentially on there because they have squad numbers and fit the ‘B List’ criteria. What it comes down to is whether de Laet should be in there ahead of Kuszczak – now consider that VDS will miss the first couple of games, do you really want to risk us having to start Amos when we play Besiktas away? Because if you replace Kuszczak with de Laet, we’d be one injury to Foster (hardly unlikely) away from having to do that.
Besides, there’s every chance de Laet will be heading off on loan. Far too much trying to guess SAF on here, he knows what he’s doing.
i don’t know the answer.
TheRedC
trust the manager. but it would be a shame iа players like Macheda, Wellbeck etc won’t fit into the manager’s plans.
But the main worry for after the Arsenal game is the potential 4-4-2 of 06-07 season and free-flowing football i pretty much miss 2 years running.
Tony Starks – “Surely they could have put Gibson as an additional player to accommodate Tosic, and dropped Gray, Hewson or Corry Evans.. these guys are not going to appear this year..”
ARGH
That would be the Darron Gibson born in October 1987?
NickOGS20
Aaah I see….
That explains it I guess..
Man our ‘young’ squad is starting to get old…
Can people not read?
It’s not just the date of birth, they have to have been at the club for a 2 year plus period UNINTERRUPTED.
So I guess next year we’ll have Kiko, Fabio and Rafael available as extras
Tosic is not on the list as there are concerns about his development, both physically and as a footballer.
I would imagine he will feature against Wolves in the Carling Cup, if he has recovered from injury and his appearances will be limited to the Carling Cup.
Orbeton will be fit come October and is likely to feature in the later rounds of the qualifiers especially if we have qualified by then.
We wont play a full strength team at Wolfsburg if we have won the group by then, we might not even take a full squad over to Moscow.
Thanks Giles. Good questions, that others are also posing, but terrible grammar and spelling. It always happens when I get worked up and just ‘brainstorm’ the keyboard.
And sorry Wes, now you are Wez I can see. Goes well with Wazza though!
I agree that Rafael got a bit of a run in the team last season. Fabio was injured so didn’t get a chance. But again, as soon as O’shea was used in that position, Rafael was simply not used again. A very promising start to his United career petered out. Sure he is naive at times, caught too far up field and out of position, but he will only learn how to correct that by playing in the Premier League at the side of Rio and Vidic.
The sheer joy of seeing him galloping up the wing in support of our attacking play, taking players on in attacking positions, getting quality shots off and getting in good tackles in defence is compensation enough for his moments of tactical naivety.
He is going to be some player; he can pass, shoot tackle and is a very confident young man. He has class and entertainment throughout his play – queue John, who I also appreciate very much but who looks like every teams perfect squad player. He can do a job in several positions and has good experience and temperament – but he will never have the potential or class that the Brazilian twins are exhibiting.
And look, Welbeck, we saw a little of him last season but mostly in cup competitions, not in the league against 1st elevens scrapping for points to mount a challenge or avoid relegation. The idea he was given chances is a little deceiving. He got one substitutes appearance in the Premier League, that’s all, even though he scored in that game against Stoke City. The other 8 first team appearances were in the league and FA cup. Still, is 9 total first team appearances the stuff that certain World Cup starters are made off?
We have played three of the weakest teams in our league in our first 4 games this season. Of all our talented youngsters only Fabio has made a starting appearance – against Birmingham. Gibson has made a brief substitute appearance (does he still count as a ‘youngster’). Yes Nani, Anderson and Evans have had some playing time already, but even Nani and Anderson seem to be slipping into that zone of uncertainty that has plagued our youngsters since the days of ‘Fergie’s Fledglings’.
Is it fate, some kind of Academy curse – or are we doing something wrong? I don’t believe that the biggest team in the World, that loves to be synonymous with youth and giving it a chance, has not produced one really exciting player from it’s youth sides in over 10 years. If pressure on SAF is the problem then maybe we should be demanding it is taken off him. We should make it clear that our priority is not necessarily another Premier League title if that means never seeing a Best, Charlton, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham – or Ronaldo, who we bought as a teenager and groomed to be the Worlds best player BY PLAYING HIM IN THE FIRST TEAM – again!
i wanted Liam Brady or Josh King in there in place of Zieler.
@GHTT : Ctrl Alt De Laet, LOL
RedC…
Come on man get a grip, its been only four games so far. Would Kiko have played ahead of Berba or Rooney in these games? He’ll get games this season for sure, as will others..
It’s hard to agree with your points.
You can’t play a player in the first team if he’s not good enough yet (eg Possebon), that’s why they are sent on loan.
The fact is that 95% of youth players will not make it to become regular at a club like United, we are not Blackburn, West Ham or Everton, we are on a different level.
i am disturbed about this news, but if fergie didnt include him in cl squad he should get more involved in premier league or fa cup, in cc he was involved last year, i think he is good player and we should play him more
wazza (Bezi) – “i wanted Liam Brady or Josh King in there in place of Zieler.”
That’ll be the Robbie Brady and Josh King that haven’t been with United for two years so couldn’t be named on the additional list in place of Zieler, yeah?
Seriously, it’s not hard to read these rules, is it??
I should also point out that there is no limit to the number of players that can be included on the additional ‘B’ list – the ten we have named are those that were assigned squad numbers a few weeks back. There is nothing to stop us adding players like Matt James or Oliver Norwood to the list as long as let UEFA know 24 hrs before the game we want to use them in.
why not registring tosic in macheda place
macheda doen’t need to be registred as the 25 man squad to play in the UCL
he is younger than ando, evans, etc
so he can play even if he is not registred
TheRedC – “Is it fate, some kind of Academy curse – or are we doing something wrong?”
No, it’s you massively overreacting. We’re four games into the season for crying out loud. Our young players will get their chances, just like they did last season, and they’ll get them at the right times, as judged by Sir Alex Ferguson.
If you want young players plunging into the team willy-nilly and a subsequent lack of success, I’d advise a switch of allegiance to Arsenal. Even then I suspect you’ll be disappointed, as you don’t seem to have any patience.
thank god fletcher is there
copy and paste job
united dont have tosic they have
1.Van der Sar, 2.Neville, 3.Evra, 4.Hargreaves, 5.Ferdinand, 6.Brown, 7.Owen, 9.Berbatov, 10.Rooney, 11.Giggs, 12.Foster, 13.Park, 15.Vidic, 16.Carrick, 17.Nani, 18.Scholes, 20.Fabio, 21.Rafael, 22.O’Shea, 24.Fletcher, 25.Valencia, 26.Obertan, 27.Macheda, 28.Gibson, 29.Kuszczak.
`
`
and and and if tosic was in the squad who said he’s be playing
Guys look at that squad basically he can only pick 25 and obviosly under 21s don’t need to be picked fergie obviously gambled on Hargreaves and with obertans champions league experience maybe fergie will use him if we have already qualified tosic will prob play league cup and fa cup maybe fergie doesn’t think he is ready apart from that our 25 is strong!
Tony, my comments do not have their basis in the first 4 games of the season. Their basis is in the last 15 years, since David Beckam, Scholesy and Giggsy were synonymous with United’s youth plocy and the mantra ‘give youth a chance’. I am using the first 4 games as an example, after SAF explicitly implied that our youngs players, Welbeck, Macheda, the Da Silvas would take the step up to the first team this year and would be given their chance. This in response to questions on his transfer policy in the summer.
…youngsters Danny Welbeck and Federico Macheda, who will both be given a chance to prove they are worthy of the accolades that have been bestowed on them.
“They are both young players – but young players with ability always get a chance here.”
I was right behind his statements and then even Gill joined in in July with;
Gill said whoever eventually replaces Sir Alex Ferguson ”will have to give youth its chance and play exciting Manchester United-style football – that’s not negotiable.’
But these type of statements have been coming out of OT for years now. Just google the phrase ‘Fergie to give youth a chance’ and variations on that theme. I have found exactly the same statement from 2002 and beyond. Also the same comment that we are packed with promising and exciting youngsters……..????????
If we have so much trust in this present squad, will not be buying other players, will be giving Welbeck and Macheda a chance, then how is it that in three of the easiest games we will have this year that not one of them has played? Do we expect they will just poor it on when required – in the bigger games?
That is my point Tony. If we are going to see the likes of Macheda or Welbeck given the role that has been suggested for them this season then when exactly are we going to start using them, against Chelsea and Liverpool maybe?
brand new video
only recorded now for everyone on this to get together and remember we are all in this together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w07Ajdctme4
they’re by far the greatest the world will ever see
@RedC
I think that you making big deal out of small thing.
SAF is playing his main players now to get them together in new season.
We are changing style from Ronaldo era to new era. And those easy games you mentioned are perfect to experiment as you don’t want to do that against Liverpool, Chelsea etc.
We have history of bad starts, and I rather have the old guns to handle the pressure than to put there young lads to handle the pressure of start of the season.
I can only imagine how it is in dressing room when everyone around are saying that we will not manage without CR.
Young guns will be used for sure, and we know from the past that SAF knows best when to use them.
I beginning to feel Man Utd is unfair towards tosic. he has the experience playing in champions league & why he hasn’t be included in the team. we haven’t seen he played full 90minutes since he sign for Man Utd unless in friendly games. this is why young players will lost faith in United giving youngster a chance to play & we start to become Real Madrid in the end, selling youngster & buy outside player
NickOGS20
“If you want young players plunging into the team willy-nilly and a subsequent lack of success, I’d advise a switch of allegiance to Arsenal. Even then I suspect you’ll be disappointed, as you don’t seem to have any patience.”
How dare you even suggest to a life long supporter of 47 years the above comment. I have been privelaged to see youth given it’s chance. I also know how to read! Again, I repeat to those guys who can’t be arsed to read past ‘the first 4 games’. My point is one that is valid for at least the last 15 years. It is not a new point.
We, especially those who also follow youth and reserve football (do you mate?), have been discussing it for a lot of years. This time I thought we would be forced to change a little, because of circumstances in the transfer market, but in the first 4 games we have seen no sign of a change and three of those games will be the easiest we play this season. It is a continuation of what we saw from last season, the problem being that either Macheda or Welbeck will probably have expected to be our 4th striker, and as such at least get a place on the bench. This has not happened.
I am trying desperately to keep my cool with you mate. It is one thing to disagree, talk and discuss these points, but don’t you ever come on this or any other blogg/forum and use the type of language you used. I’d smack your arse if you was in front of me. Don’t assume that you are talking to some new upstart or a fan that doesn’t know what he is talking about. I have invested a big part of my life in this club and will do so until the day I die. Go use your cliches on some deserving arsehole – like your self
JI, hang on mate, you say that, but Valencia has been given a chance. A new player that has been given his chance on the biggest stage against Arsenal as well as some of the other games. Owen has also had a go, a new player, expereinced of course, but still new to this team. Valencia has been given his chances ahead of Park, a player who knows this team inside out.
So it is not all about using the old heads to steady the ship as you suggest. It is about having the confidence in the quality of our youngsters. Macheda was good enough to score goals for us last season. Today reports are appearing that he has suggested he would love to play in Italy, he would love to play for Lazio again. All the familiar stages that give the first hint that players are unhappy at the way things are going.
I am not commenting on the inclusion or not of our present youngsters in terms of questioning SAF’s meaning on their progress. What I am saying is that he has said himself, for many years now, that if they are good enough they will play. The main core of my point, in light of yet another promising player seemingly not making the grade this season (Tosic), is should we overlook the point that in the last 15 years -NOT 4 GAMES – we have only produced Wes, O’shea, Fletcher and Evans from our academy? And out of those 4, which are world class players, such as those produced by many other clubs within that period.
LETS ALL MAKE 1 THING VERY CLEAR: ZORAN TOSIC IS NOT THE SAVIOR OF MANCHESTER UNITED…ITS UNFORTUNATE BUT WE DO NOT WANT HIM PLAYING IN ANY BIG CHAMPIONS LEAGUE GAMES…ITS A NON-ISSUE
Reading all the comments to now there are only 2 things relevant for me.
Howie’s suggestion of keeping back Tosic (for whatever reason) for Prem games is about right. I don’t personally believe Tosic will go on loan. Carling Cup, early FA Cup ties and some Prem games will see him feature. In the former, very likely. In the second, dependent on the opponents. In the latter, where opponents and injuries dictate.
RedC obviously believes he’s right to make the points he does. He might well be factually correct.
Yet this seems more an instance of finding fault because you can – the availability of info these days and its scope for any interpretation you see fit, will always provide the ammunition for views; good or bad.
I’d say just trust Ferguson. After all, he’s not exactly been a failure, has he?
King Eric
‘Strange one regarding Tosic. Perhaps SAF doesn’t think he has “bulked up” enough yet.’
Yeah I thought that too but remember a spindly 6″3″ Pallister joining us a few years ago and bulking out within 12 months under an intense weights and diet regime. I understand younger players can’t be rushed with muscle development but don’t know where we are going with the younger players sometimes.Watched Tosic against Valencia and was impressed but friendlies don’t tell you much.But I am slightly disturbed about the end result of the hype surrounding a lot of these kids we are picking up.They have obvious talent but seem to hit brick walls in their development over the last few seasons.Too many loan outs and too many players slightly past their best(Giggs,Scholes, Neville etc.) who could take training sessions with the younger players and pass on a wealth of experience to them. Let’s not forget Brian Kidd moved in that direction after he finished his playing career and didn’t do too bad prior to the his falling out with Fergie.
some people are thich as shite, suggesting we swap macheda for tosic as macheda is younger than ando etc… READ THE FUCKIN POST! been at united 2 YEARS and BORN AFTER 1.1.88……………
That’s a weird one, maybe Sir Alex might explain in his next interview, if the media notices…
a ‘finding fault because you can’ accusation is always at best ambiguous. you are saying ‘finding fault because it’s there’ actually. And that is the case.
I am not wishing to, or wanating to find fault. The fault is in the end product that has seen us bereft of young talent good enough, or able enough to step up into the first team.
This is not a knee jerk reaction or some whim or pet dislike of mine. I was actually on MUTV, around 2001/2002 taling to Paddy about the same thing, on a show that had its basis on two young and promising lads that had been released. Since I have followed discussions and programmes on MUTV with exactly the same themes. The list of young players this club has seen with seemingly incredible potential, that the likes of Paddy, even Macari at timesand the rest of them have tipped for greatness, but who have not made the grade at United is actually quite incredible.
I think there are some teams who would be disapointed if their academies didn’t produce at least one player from each year that remained with the first team squad, Teams like Barcelona come into that catagory and I have actually read that they expect at least one or two each year. Madrid, Athletico, Valencia, Seville all have young players that are coveted by other clubs. Sporting and Porto in Portugal, any number of French clubs in recent times, German, Scandinavian clubs – there are plenty of examples of very good players of International class coming out of these clubs on a regular basis.
It means something to me since I have taken a keen interest in youth and reserve football at our club. I have watched, enthused about and been sad about the departure of so many players that you would have put your house on becoming star players for us in the future.
There has to be some key, some common factor behind it all. Either we do not have the set up and circumstances to school these kids correctly or we are not getting good enough youngsters in our academy.
tosic is a quality young player, however Obertan has chamions league experience under his belt already.
dont forget tosic has been playin in serbia all his career!
The Red C – ““This time I thought we would be forced to change a little, because of circumstances in the transfer market, but in the first 4 games we have seen no sign of a change and three of those games will be the easiest we play this season. It is a continuation of what we saw from last season, the problem being that either Macheda or Welbeck will probably have expected to be our 4th striker, and as such at least get a place on the bench. This has not happened.”
This is exactly what my point was. You have said that you were right behind SAF’s comments in the summer about giving youth a chance, and yet you’re whining about him not doing so after FOUR GAMES at the start of a season. You can say it’s been a 15 year problem (which is frankly bollocks) but you have explicitly said yourself that you backed what he said in the summer, and now you’re having a tantrum about him not keeping to his word. After four games.
If you weren’t happy with the opportunities given to young players last season, you are simply never going to be happy. Football has changed, bringing young players through is immensely difficult at the top clubs. I see you haven’t addressed my question to you – which youngsters have Arsenal or Liverpool brought through that we should be using as an example? That’s because there have been few/none. Frankly we broke new ground in modern English football with the opportunities we gave youngsters last season, and there’s no reason to believe that won’t continue to be the case, certainly not after four fucking games.
“I am trying desperately to keep my cool with you mate. It is one thing to disagree, talk and discuss these points, but don’t you ever come on this or any other blogg/forum and use the type of language you used. I’d smack your arse if you was in front of me. Don’t assume that you are talking to some new upstart or a fan that doesn’t know what he is talking about. I have invested a big part of my life in this club and will do so until the day I die. Go use your cliches on some deserving arsehole – like your self.”
Sorry mate but I speak as I find. If you’ve got 40+ years under your belt as a Red then well done, but it sure as hell doesn’t seem like it. Your comments on this post reek of a 12 year-old who wants the moon on a stick. I could just as easily level at you similar criticisms – your ‘do you watch reserve/youth games mate?’ was more than a little patronising. For what it’s worth, I watch both on a regular basis home and away and even run a moderately successful blog covering their progress, so I like to think I know what I’m talking about. I have absolutely no qualms with SAF’s current youth policy, and I don’t think most United fans will either.
The Red C – “I have watched, enthused about and been sad about the departure of so many players that you would have put your house on becoming star players for us in the future.”
I have been exactly the same. But how many of those departures you’ve been sad about have come back to bite Fergie on the arse? How many of those players have gone on to have the sort of career that has said “look Fergie, you missed a trick here?”.
SAF knows what he’s doing. If at the end of the season Macheda, Welbeck et al have barely played then you’ll have legitimate cause for complaint (and I will be joining you), but not after three weeks of the season.
Very strange…especially since he was man of the match for Serbia against South Africa few weeks ago….and was running circles around the South African defenders….so he’s on form too
And imagine how many people were wtf is that looking at MAcheda as substitute.
And some probably thinking wtf he took X’s place on the bench.
He went out and got us vital 3 points an repeated that next match.
But that doesn’t mean that he needs to be played now all the time.
SAF always new what he was doing raising youngsters. In this subject I am not even close to think “what is he doing”.
In the past more youngsters were able to go up to the first team because this team was still building. SAF has build collosus standing on strong legs.
Now we have financial power to buy players we desire. That is why it is harder for youngster to get into the first team. More positions than before are filled with experienced players bought from transfers.
That is why Valenica and Owen are playing.
People tend to forget that it is expected from Manchester United to deliver each year on financial and sports grounds. And you will not do this by each years or two by filling your squad with youngsters.
It’s actually hilarious how people haven’t comprehended the rules regarding additional players. The squad can be changed a bit after the group stages anyway but there’s no one in the 25 that Tosic should be ahead of.
SAF has a way of motivating young players. Giving them rewards for hard work. (If they are deemed good enough!)
Macheda was prematurely promoted from youth, scored 2 goals for reserves and was promoted to the first team squad for the next prem game!! That’s the way The Man rolls!
That was his chance, he took it, now he’s in the first team! same for Wellbeck. All this happened in the last year! Fabio/Rafael the same
the year before that was Johnny Evans
the year before that Anderson and Nani (meant to go to youth if ppl are forgetting that!! but most are already impatient…)
All the above have come from & even skipped youth football. This notion that SAF does not give youth a chance is a farce imo.
Greening, Shawcross, Chris Eagles, Martins… all where given chances but deemed not good enough for us by one man. The man WE trust.
Red C is an old purist and I respect that, but raw young talent is bloody rare nowadays. So thank The Man for Roon, Ando, Nani, Raf/Fab, Gibson, Evans, Macheda, Wellbeck, Foster, De Laet and the many more to come!
Even Barca/Arsenal can’t boast that amount of raw young talent in their SQUAD so I do not see your point at all!
PS. The Man = Sir Alex Ferguson
Pps. Tosic may have a Bergkampesque fear of flying?? road trips to Russia may take their toll!
how many of the youth and reserve teams who have left have gone on to be the best in prem league? The game has changed immensely and the pressures and expectations are completely different now. Don’t forget that even going back to the 95 kids, they had to serve apprenticeship with the team, cleaning boots etc and didn’t think they had it made just because they had one first team game under their belt. Now you hear the rumours of the young ones acting like they are summat coz they are knocking about the first team. Would love to see one kid making proper breakthrough and taking team by storm, and think we’ve got few like gibson, evans and wellbeck who could. Same can’t be said for chelsea, arsenal or liverpool so think we.re actually doing ok on that one.
Calm it lads.
I thought Tosic was only brought in because Belgrade offered him up to sweeten the deal with Ljajic, hence the absurd price tag. He’s not fast or skilled enough (right now) to make up for how tiny he is, given his age and the fact that the league is fast and aggressive, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him loaned or sold. It’s a shame because I like him a lot but obviously Fergie’s going to have a better understanding of his progress (or, perhaps, lack thereof) than we are.
the reality is ferusons transfer record is just shocking at times and it has gotten worse between 2005 and present. he seems to have no clue on how to find a quality CM player and he has a billion midfielders who do a job but not one that stands out like a sore thumb they cant even get into double figures, still he has not replaced the fantastic four of keane scholes beckham giggs right. valencia is an alright winger but he is nowhere near what I call world class. nani is better but he will have to do it week in week out to be convinced he is right for the team.
both tosic and de laet had a great pre season, especially the winger. the logical explanation is they’re being loan out.
Tosic needs to build up his strength and weight which i see is the problem in europe. I;m no worry enough as tosic will be here for long. He has the potential just not enough weight and strength. He will be build up no worry. Tosic dream is to play for United and i can’t see why fergie will sell him off. Guys relax.
my boss is serbian and supports partisan, he said he is getting holidays soon to go home and watch their first europa league game and he supports united too but he said theres talk of a loan move back for tosic so he can play in europe for the year, he said he doesnt think it will happen he just heard it, he said himself that tosic is a good player but said only time will tell if he is united good
No Tosic or De Laet!!!!
But Kiko has a first team number…….
I think Tosic and De Laet will be used in the Carling Cup and FA cup.
Those who are likely to get on the pitch from the list:
1. Van der Sar (GK)
2. Foster (GK)
3. Kuszczak (GK)
1. Ferdinand (CB)
2. Vidic (CB)
3. J.Evans (CB)
4. Brown (CB, RB)
5. O’Shea (CB, RB, LB, DM)
6. Neville (RB , CB)
7. Rafael (RB)
8. Evra (LB)
9. Fabio (LB, RB)
1. Hargreaves (CM)
2. Carrick (CM)
3. Scholes (CM)
4. Fletcher (CM, RM)
5. Giggs (CM, LM)
6. Gibson (CM RM)
7. Anderson (CM)
8. Valencia (RW, LW)
9. Nani (LW, RW)
10. Park (RW, LW)
11. Obertan (RW, LW)
1. Rooney (ST, LW)
2. Berbatov (ST)
3. Owen (ST)
4. Macheda (ST)
5. Welbeck (ST, RW, LW)
Most positions are quite well covered. I believe SAF has looked at the CL fixtures and decided that experience is much needed against our opponents in the Group stage, especially when we are playing away from home. De Laet and Tosic are both exciting prospects. They will get their chances in the League Cup and FA Cup games.
ctrl alt haha I liked that one…which brings to mind this possibility that SAF dicta phoned to the secretary “…and de Laet, Tosic..” so she did.
Has anyone added up the actual number of players on the list? Is it in fact two short?
Actually re this Euro Championship squad, there is no real worries about the names sent. This is only valid until end of this year.
Then in January, it is culled to 30 players. A few months later to 25.
And so, there is enough time to be ADDED later on for guys like Tosic, Petrucci. By January, all these players will have a chance to prove themselves given that there are other qualifying Cups to play for. Negative developments may occur in between, like Hargreaves having to quit footballing (hope that does not happen!) or some other having a season ending injury. In January, United may have even gone on to signing a BIG NAME player (hope so!).
As for Obertan over Tosic. Tosic is still a bit timid, needs to build up further, muscularly speaking. Obertan is BIG! This guy runs over defenders, that’s his approach.
As for 25 + 10, well, *UEFA rules permit any player born on or after 1 January 1988 who has been eligible to play for the club for any uninterrupted period of two years since his 15th birthday to be registered outside of the 25-man squad limit.*
Red C:
I’m not questioning your credentials as you see them, fella. Neither was my remark ambiguous – unless you yourself think I meant something else.
If I was wrong and you weren’t nitpicking then it seems the topic (true or false in your interpretation of it – in relation to the very small number of clubs important enough to be a threat to United at the level football-wise in which the club operates) is a long-standing bete noire of yours.
But any provable detriment must surely be counter-balanced by the success the club has had since the academy which produced Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles et al. Sadly, since only then English football has changed dramatically; and I believe for the worse.
If your loyalty over decades has a romantic element to it, that you love United for its footballing philosophy in times when a communal identity mattered, thus the Beckhams etc were products of a dying ideal and you pine for its return, then I share it.
Why? Because the legend that is this greatest of clubs evolved in large part from the very things you speak of. And gave it succour and meaning in the leanest periods.
It’s just that this has gone now, certainly in any idealistic sense. In recent years, from wherever we’ve acquired our young players, how many have succeeded and how many haven’t, hasn’t hampered our success in my view. And in any realistic comparison on this subject, including those big clubs you cite, we measure up in today’s version of the football world. Here or anywhere else.
Park, Park, wherever you may be Said
i can not agree with you
Rossi was never given a chance.only 9 minutes and he scored.
Rossi is most talented italian so do not tell me he did not deserved a chance
Bit puzzled by that one, would have thought he may of had a part to play this season.
Morning guys….Fancy visiting my newly set up website at http://asiankings1975.com/blog.
Anybody read the babel story on FSW?? awesome!! called him a big fat liar!!
I am worried about Tosic, but i still trust SAF.
good morning everyone
@dakota.i read that story.Says that FSW lied to him.he too realises now what a prick FSW is.where have you been?guess you have posted after quite a lot of days.
@kings.
brilliant article there mate.this a common thing going wrong because people are trying to make easy money especially in todays world due to lack of jobs.keep up the good work.
Good morning aig
I’ve been sick mate..after taking rest for a week or so..i’m back at work now..Thanks fro asking
..surprised to hear about tosic not being included..why buy’em when you dont play’em..but as we all know..SAF knows best!! read a couple of responses where they were suggesting that he isn’t tall enough for europe!! hilarious!! i guess messi should be banned from playing CL then 
@kings
good one mate!! relate to your “who am i” story a lot
@dakota.
take care.i think the only logical reason is because we aldready have park nani valencia as the first choice wingers.it was a straight choice for thr 4th spot between obertan and tosic and maybe fergie feels obertan is better than tosic.tosic is still only 22 and has a long future ahead of him.he will get his chances this season.he has to do well in the cup competitions and stake his claim for a regular place.4 wingers is more than enough especially when you consider that fergie may play hargo or fletch on the wings in a big game ain the knockout stages.
Quote from The Times:
“One player not in the squad is Zoran Tosic, the Serbia winger signed from Partizan Belgrade in January, due to Uefa restrictions on the number of non-EU players allowed. ”
I think that would explain it.
@aig
well said mate..
@dakota.
Thanks mate.sure SAf may explain his reason sometime soon,but i hink we have lot of wingers and Tosic and Obertan are the most low profile.i dont mean to say they are not talented but others are more experienced.
Tosic is not in the squad because there is a restriction on the ammount of non-E.U players you can have apparently-although I couldn’t find any rule relating to that on UEFA’s website.
It’s a shame that Tosic hasn’t been given more pitch time-particularly with Giggs being so poor and Valencia not really impressing, but with the upcoming Premiership fixtures I can’t really see him getting a run out against Spurs or Citeh.
Looks like he was a make weight for that ljiac if he is only going to play lge cup games , we should send him out on loan somewhere.
We should have bought a left winger, this kid isnl’t good enough and i have doubts about nani. Unless obertan (who couldn;t get in bordeuax team last year) is going to be the real deal .
we are short in this area
It seems Fergie doesn’t share your pessimism about Obertan Jimmy Bob
“At 16 he was one of the outstanding young talents in Europe, and he’s said to us that over this last year and a half he’s been playing with this back injury and no-one thought about getting a scan. We expect big things from him. He’s a nice boy, speaks good English and should have no problem settling in.”
He’s also spoken about Diouf and Ljajic
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BF9E570E6%2D407E%2D44BC%2D800F%2D4A3110258114%7D&newsid=6638828
I think SAF has Ronney in his fantasy team, thats why he hasn’t been playing Macheda, Wellbeck and even Berbatov… he wants Rooney to score him points!
I am bloody looking forward to seeing this Obertan chap play though, he must be pretty good if Fergie rates him ahead of someone who has scored at international level.
In SAF we trust.
I read something this morning that said it had something to do with Non EU Players
It seem we see more of galaticos then fergie fledgling these day. something that becoming the foundation of a football team. clubs start to buys young talented players that in the end been sold to other club. then they buy others players. I always excited to know youngster that been sign by Man Utd & place that they gonna take over from. i wonder what will happen to:
1. Rodrigo Possebon
2. Davide Petrucci
3. Ritchie De Laet
4. Adem Ljajic
5. Paul Pogba
6. Craig Cathcart & the others
yes, they have many years ahead of them but will they be guided by SAF?
who gonna be Jonny Evans partner in defence when Rio n Vidic is no longer there? most of them have reach 30+ in age
one day rooney could be captain but captain of what?
I think there is a limit of non-EU players, and Tosic probably was on the list of players not likely to contribute too much.
But let’s see him in action soon!
King Eric,regarding the “simples” thing,I don’t think I’ve ever used that before.
Yorick Said…
“i can not agree with you
Rossi was never given a chance.only 9 minutes and he scored.
Rossi is most talented italian so do not tell me he did not deserved a chance”
Come of it! I did rate Rossi (and he DID get more than 9 mins!) , but that comment is absolute drivel as even Macheda makes Rossi look like a circus midget! 2 goals in 2 games
Besides, Rooney had that position on lock-down at the time. Rossi was just unfortunate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/mancity/6127979/Manchester-City-concerned-that-Emmanuel-Adebayor-will-be-subjected-to-racist-abuse.html
“Serbian winger Zoran Tosic misses out, however, due to restrictions on the number of non-EU players that can be selected”
That answers that question then.
@ Alpha_RS
amen ))
don’t judge until you are 100% informed.
you don’t live at OT and we don’t know all the issues surrounding the life of the club. that is sometimes the problem when you judge something.
Just wondering why Cathcart has been named in the CL squad? Thought he was out on loan at Newcastle.
He asked tosic to physically bulk up over the summer and he hasnt….22years old and he should of had at least 30 games under his belt but he hasnt……waster !!
NickOGS20
You are ‘frankly bollocks’. You are trying to turn a frankly valid question, against a frankly vakid supporter, without addressing the points. I said in my earlier post’s that this has been a problem for around 15 years, taking into account that 1995 was the year we saw the group of lads that included Gary Neville, Beckham, Butt, and then shortly after Scholes and Phil Neville emerge. Since then we have only really had the names I have mentioned that have become regular squad – not first teamers – players.
So there is your ‘frankly bollocks’ Nick.
Here is another frankly bollocks -
I am not interested in the number of games. It is you guys harping on about 4 games. I am saying that we do not have a fourth striker on the bench when 1) Fergie said we would see much more of them, that they would be used and we wouldn’t be buying 2) we have just played Birmingham, Burnley and Wigan without using these two guys. Those games would surely have been viewed as three of the easiest this season.
As such why were two young strikers, that we will have to rely on this season, not given a chance to play or at least the confidence of being picked on the bench? It means that if they are to be given a chance at all it will probably be against stiffer opposition. The Tosic thing has gone hand in hand with the Macheda report, about him wanting to go back to Italy. These things are not coincidental. It is only three months ago Macheda was describing how it was the best move he could have made and Lazio only had themselves to blame for him coming to Manchester
I have also tried to give you the benefit of my experience of following youth teams over the last 10 years or so. The story is a lot longer than the words I have written here. There has been many extremely promising youngsters that have not made it after going through our state of the art football academy. Football has changed and evolved, but that is the worst excuse one could possibly use for not providing youngsters through your youth system. Are we saying because of this we should not expect better things from our youth system?…. Actually that is the point of all my comments.
Should we not expect better things from our youth policy? Should we not expect more out of it than Wes Brown, John Ø’shea, Fletcher and Jonny Evans since those frankly bollocks days of 1995-6, ‘almost’ 15 years ago? Should we not expect to trust and believe in SAF when he has said for three or four seasons on the trott now that we will come to see a lot more of our youngsters…they have an important role to play?
Good Lord, it is only a couple of seasons ago he reeled off a list of names of those ‘fantastic’ youngsters that would be given a lot more chances in the first team. That list included Eagles, Rossi, Martin, Blake, Richardson, Bardsley…not one of them at this club now. How can it be that out of those guys not one of them got the chance to make it here. Is it because they were not good enough or we were not good enough in retaining them and developing them? They are just examples. This discussion has been going on a while, amongst lovers and fans of this club aswell as observations from outside this club.
Here’s an example an article written in 2000,10 years ago, sorry that was frankly bollocks , it was only 9 1/4 years. From 4THEGAME.COM;
*********************************************************************************
FERGIE’S FLEDGLINGS FLY THE NEST
Thursday 06 Jul 2000
After flourishing in the mid-1990s, Fergie’s Fledglings are becoming something of an endangered species at Manchester United.
Danny Higginbotham became the latest young player to see his ambitions thwarted when he left Old Trafford and joined Derby in a £2million deal.
Like an increasing number of young hopefuls he has changed clubs after realising that he had little chance of establishing himself in United’s senior squad, let alone their first team.
So what has happened to United’s famed production line of talent?
United are envied throughout the world for their youth policy, which has unearthed and polished such gems as David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Phil Neville and Nicky Butt.
In today’s inflated transfer market there would not be much change out of £70million if these five were put up for sale.
However, since their emergence, the number of young players making the grade at United has tailed off significantly.
England international Wes Brown was the last to make the step up from the youths to the first team two years ago.
But Brown apart, United’s kids have gone through a lean spell in the last three or four years.
Phil Neville is the only member of their 1995 FA Youth Cup-winning side to establish himself as a regular in the first-team squad.
Partly this is because the new generation is finding it increasingly hard to break through into Ferguson’s first-team squad.
In 1995, after missing out on the Premiership and FA Cup, Ferguson had a clear-out at Old Trafford and made room for the likes of Beckham and Co by selling Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis and Mark Hughes.
The current side, whose average age is much younger, is hardly in need of such radical surgery and it is hard to see any opportunities for the youngsters.
Higginbotham’s move is particularly telling because it was felt his prospects were bright being one of the few natural left-backs at United.
Mickael Silvestre is the only other left-footed defender United have in their squad – Denis Irwin and Phil Neville are both right-footed – and yet Higginbotham still could not make the grade.
Since turning professional three years ago, the 21-year-old managed just seven appearances and three of those were as a substitute.
In addition to Higginbotham, fledglings John Curtis, who was once regarded as the best defensive prospect in the country when he played with Michael Owen for England schoolboys, Terry Cooke, Ben Thornley, Grant Brebner, Chris Casper, Philip Mulryne and Erik Nevland have all flown the nest in the last two years.
There could be yet more departures and midfielder Michael Twiss has just started a trial with Port Vale.
For Higginbotham’s contemporaries who remain at United, the future does not look bright.
Centre-half Ronnie Wallwork, right-back Michael Clegg and midfielders Jonathan Greening and Mark Wilson have been on the fringes of the first-team squad for a couple of seasons without being able to breakthrough.
Northern Ireland striker David Healy is another player who could find himself a victim of the glass ceiling at United.
He has impressed greatly for the youth and reserve sides, but what realistic hope has he of deposing Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer?
Of course, leaving United does not mean the end of their careers and in some cases it can be a new beginning.
Robbie Savage and Ashley Westwood are playing Premiership football with Leicester and Bradford respectively after being released by United.
Another dimension to the problem is that United’s kids are just not as good as they were.
United reached the 1992, 1993 and 1995 FA Youth Cup Finals – winning in 1992 and 1995 – yet since then they have failed to figure in the two-legged showpiece for young talent.
This is a barren run by United’s high standards and is evidence that after the peak of the early 90s, they are now going through a trough.
The good times could return in a year or two and United have a couple of youngsters who are being tipped for great things.
Midfielder Luke Chadwick was capped by England Under-21s last season, while Ferguson drools every time he sees 16-year-old midfielder Darren Fletcher.
Ferguson wanted to give him his senior debut at Aston Villa in the final game of last season, but was thwarted because he was still a schoolboy.
Irish defender John O’Shea, who has already been dubbed the new Paul McGrath, is another youngster who is highly thought of at United.
However, when the time comes they too may have to spread their wings and leave United in search of regular first-team football.
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It’s a recurring theme…just as my posts on this thread. Sorry Scott, I won’t do this again. But we can’t just avoid these topics, or hurl abuse at long time supporters because the younger generations don’t have the expereince or love of youth and reserve football. A great deal of the point of supporting the youth and reserve teams is in the hope of seeing someone special coming through, someone who will make their mark on the first team in a way so many great players have done in the past. (I can provide a list if people want it).
What is stopping this happening now? Why are two players praised to high heaven, Welbeck even tipped by the Boss as a definate starter for England in 2010, and yet in the season leading up to the World Cup he can’t get a start against Wigan, Birmingham or Burnley? Are we going to see the all too familiar path for two very promising youngsters? It has sure started out that way as far as I’m concerned. Maybe injuries will be the thing to change this?
Not going to write anything else on this for another 15 years…don’t want to confuse frankly bollocks do I?
Red C, thanks for this valuable piece of documentation which adds perspective to what’s become a heated and personalised debate. I think you’ve raised important issues and I hope we can take some of the heat out of things and continue to explore them without the rancour. We’re all supporters and everyone’s surely entitled to their own opinions without being subjected to abuse. I don’t want to take sides on this as I can see valid points -and years of experience – on all sides.
Lets expect gravity out of this squad.